Maggie O’Brien is Managing Director - Co-Head of Chicago at J.P. Morgan Private Bank. She is a Daniel Burnham Fellow member of Leadership Greater Chicago, the region’s premier civic leadership organization. Complementing Maggie’s offer as a corporate and community leader, she is a mom and wife, committed to the love and advancement of her family. This conversation is ‘real’ and ‘raw’, getting deep into the reality of a PROVEN woman leader who navigates her journey with resilience, mindfulness and authenticity.
Maggie never expected to be pulled over on the side of a road for our conversation about female empowerment, but as she puts it - "such is the life we lead." This unplanned moment perfectly captures the reality of being a working woman balancing career ambitions with family responsibilities.
From the earliest days of her finance career, Maggie questioned whether she belonged in the room. At 23, walking into meetings with manufacturing executives, she wondered why they would ever listen to her advice. This vulnerability around confidence, especially for women in male-dominated fields, becomes our central theme. The conversation reveals how women often need significantly more certainty before taking risks compared to their male counterparts - a hesitation that can hold us back from opportunities for growth.
The turning point in Maggie's confidence came after successfully turning around an underperforming team, giving her tangible proof of her capabilities. Yet even successful leaders face setbacks. Her most valuable leadership lesson came from a failed turnaround where feedback revealed she'd been perceived as a "bulldozer" who hadn't taken time to understand the team before implementing changes. This taught her the essential principle that "you've got to get people in the boat with you before you ask them to row."
For women whose confidence has been shaken, Maggie recommends cultivating a personal "cheerleading squad" - trusted friends who genuinely see your value and can remind you of it during difficult times. This becomes increasingly important as leadership positions become more isolated, with positive reinforcement growing scarce.
The parallels between professional confidence and financial empowerment are striking. Women approach money decisions with similar caution, yet 80% will need to manage family finances at some point. For young women entering finance careers today, there's reason for optimism as technological advances make work-life balance more achievable, but representation remains critical - we need to see women who've successfully balanced career advancement with family life to believe it's possible for ourselves.
Listen for practical wisdom on developing self-advocacy, overcoming imposter syndrome, and finding your own power outfit (Maggie's is a hot pink Veronica Beard suit) that helps you own your presence in any room.
Drive, Ambition, Doing, Leading, Creating... all good until we forget about our own self-care. This Village of All-Stars pays it forward with transparency about misses and celebration in winning. We cover many topics and keep it 100. We are Proven Not Perfect™️
https://www.provennotperfect.com
Follow me on Instagram at: shontrapowell_provennotperfect
Check out Proven Not Perfect ™️ YouTube Channel as well. Join the community for ideas and events at www.provennotperfect.com.
I'd love to hear what you think!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Maggie.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Chandra.
Okay, you were supposed to beat home.
You're not at home.
I'm seeing a car behind you.
What the heck?
What is going on?
This is feeling not perfect.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Yeah, life happens.
I got called down for anunexpected meeting Thought I
left with plenty of time to gethome to do this with you and
pulled over on the side of theroad because there was traffic
and you know, such as such asthe life we lead.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
So that's it, I swear um, you can have made this up.
It's exactly, it's supposed tobe right.
So I don't want to lose asecond of your time and I also
(00:59):
want to keep you moving.
But, um, first I have to sayhey, girl.
Hey, I said that I wasn't goingto say that the audacity to
have multiple children, agrowing corporate career and,
quite frankly, you and I bondedimmediately because we also had
the privilege of husbands whorecognized our potential and, in
(01:27):
some ways I won't say sacrifice, because I truly don't believe
that was the case for either ofthem they chose unconventional
approaches to support us andtheir belief in us and our
families.
And, girl, I don't even think Irealized at the time how
incredibly blessed I was in that.
I mean, have you ever thoughtabout that?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I I've thought about.
I think about it all the timeand I think about it again
recently because I just said yesto a little side job.
That means a lot to me and I'mpassionate about, but it means
more time away and this morningwas one of those examples.
So you know who's cartingaround the four kids to the
baseball and the soccer likethat's my husband and he didn't
(02:07):
blink an eye.
It was like, ok, we're going tomiss you, but if you want to do
it, go for it.
And I feel very, very luckythat I have that support.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
It's so good, All right.
So look, I want to start this.
When I thought of you, Maggie,immediately I thought of the
fact that, well, when I thoughtof you, Maggie, immediately I
(02:41):
thought of the fact that, well,talking to Maggie, who has this
wonderful position of influenceand leadership in the financial
industry in an amazing city Ithink one of the best cities in
America for an impressive andworld-renowned company with a
very vocal and present leader,like all those things line up to
you so immediately I startedthinking about all these
questions that kind of went downthat lane of finance and blah,
blah, blah.
(03:01):
I think it hit me very quicklywhen teasing this out with you
that the conversation for us,very much aligned and adjacent
to finance, is empowerment ofwomen in their careers, and I
think that it lines up so neatlyto just being empowered in
(03:24):
general and how that goes alongwith having options in life and
taking risks that are calculatedand seizing opportunities
without being held back.
And so does that resonate foryou?
Is that okay?
Can we just kind of take thatjourney?
Because if so, totally totally,yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I mean I think you know, yeah, for women, for women
in particular, the taking riskthing I think is a really big
topic, like I more and more seehow much more willing the male
gender is to kind of lean in andtake a risk and try for
something, and how much moresure women feel they need to be
(04:11):
before they do something.
And I think, um, you knowthat's, that's something we
should all be aware of and kindof embrace and then maybe push
ourselves a little bit to stepoutside of the comfort zone.
Um, because I think I thinkwe're ready for a lot more than
we sometimes realize we are, youknow.
So, encouraging everyone tokind of lean in, I think, is
(04:32):
I've just seen so much of thatrecently that if that was one,
one message I could convey isgoing to push, push ourselves to
lean in a little bit- I lovethat.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So let's let's take it back a little bit.
When you started your career infinance, did you fully
appreciate the power andposition you were bringing just
with your offers that you walkedin the door with, or was that a
process of becoming the provenleader that you are?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
No, I had no idea.
I um, I mean gosh, I started ina training program so my first
job was just to learn, to learnthe job I was eventually going
to do.
The job I was eventually goingto do was be a commercial banker
for companies, Um, but at agelike 23, I was asked to go out
(05:26):
and bring in business, go getthese companies to come work for
you, and I'm like why wouldthey work with a 23 year old
woman who has never run amanufacturing plant and doesn't
know anything about theirbusiness?
You know so.
So, no, I mean, I entered theworkforce feeling like you know,
I don't know anything about thereal world.
I've been a student, you know myentire life and um, have no
(05:49):
idea what I brought to the tableand probably brought.
You know much less than I donow, just given the experience.
But I think it's a, it's alearned thing as you go about um
life.
I think that's the other thingis, it's very easy still to
focus on the stuff you don'thave or the stuff you feel you
aren't as good at, and, um, Iwish I had learned earlier on to
(06:11):
like lean in and appreciate thethings I did have and did bring
to the table, you know, even at23 years old, with those
business owners.
Fine, I didn't have theexperience, but you know what,
Like, I always called them back.
I was very reachable, Ifollowed through on every
commitment.
I didn't know the answers tomost anything, but I'd find them
out and I'd come back, you know, and in the end that was a
(06:32):
value to people, you know, andso, but it took me a long time
to figure that out and have theconfidence that, like that, what
I was bringing was enough Atsome point, too, you realize
that something is becoming atheme, and that is you're being
(06:53):
consistently pulled into roomsand situations to do what you do
.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
And I think it was that piece that really started
to get me to say, well, hang onhere.
If they're seeing something tokeep pulling me in, I might own
actually stopping, pausing andfiguring out just what that is
right and asking the questionwhy why am I here?
(07:22):
Asking the question why why amI here?
What was your evolution to theplace where you went from?
I'm doing a good job, I'mworking hard, I'm being pulled
in the room to, I know who I am,I know what I offer and I know
what I'm packing Do you rememberthat?
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Hmm, yeah, I do.
It took, I think.
I think I would call that.
I'm sure there's been a numberof them, but I think the moment
that comes to mind most readilyis because I felt like for the
start of my career, up throughthat first management job, like
while I, while I was ambitiousand I wanted the next thing, I
(08:06):
also just constantly felt like Ireally had to prove myself.
You know, that first managementjob, and you feel like, oh God,
I'm like younger than the otherpeople in this room and I'm the
newest manager and I have tolike be extra, extra good in
order for these people to takeme seriously.
And, you know, you just feelkind of like an imposter, the
whole.
I mean, it's a very real thing,the imposter syndrome, like you
feel like you know, I don'tknow like should I be here?
(08:29):
Did I earn this?
I be here, did I earn this,whatever?
And I think, I think you knowthat first assignment I had as a
leader and manager was a verybig turnaround situation.
In retrospect it was probablysmart of the firm because there
was very low risk in putting meinto it.
There was nowhere further to godown, right, but we ended up
having a hugely, a hugelysuccessful turnaround and, you
(08:51):
know, by a year in, like thatteam had become the top ranked
in in our system.
And um, I think that's when Ifinally was like, okay, you know
what, like I, I haven'taccomplished.
Like it's like I felt like Ihad a resume, you know, it's
like I have a tangibleaccomplishment under my belt.
And so now, like, if I feellike people don't think I'm
(09:13):
qualified or aren't taking meseriously, like I had built
enough, like in an innate kindof sense of accomplishment, and
felt like you know what,continuing to give yourself,
like the positive reinforcementthat like no, we haven't
(09:38):
achieved what we're trying toyet, but that doesn't mean that
you don't belong in the role andit doesn't mean that you
shouldn't have confidence in themeantime.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I think that when I reflect on this generation, as I
spend time with, you know, myoldest child's peer group, they
bring a clarity about what theirmagic sauce is.
That is unbelievable to me,because I know for sure that it
(10:09):
took me a while to be able toarticulate that, and I think
they have almost the flipsituation going on, because,
where I didn't have thatarticulation early on, I just
knew that I was going to workhard, I was going to learn
everything, I was going tolisten intently, I was going to
watch, I was going to.
(10:29):
I just knew that I was bringinga mindset to it.
They, however, come in with allthe things that I think I would
begin to unfold Right, and so,if anything, it's the reverse
situation.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
They're coming.
Are they being taught that Like?
How do they?
How Like?
Are they being taught to givethat thought, or do you think
that's?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I think it's.
I think I think we raised them.
I feel like my peer group hasraised this generation to have
all the deposits that maybe wedidn't have.
And the other thing too, Ithink that we've spent I
certainly did, you probably toogiving them the opportunity to
try so many things so thatthey're even as younger people
(11:16):
they have an articulation of ohyeah, I tried, I tried that.
I'm not good at that, but I amgood at that Right, there's so
many opportunities for them tosort of see what fits where.
I feel like the generation thatraised me, you know, with
multiple kids and being aworking woman and pursuing
higher education and you knowmom and dad and great, great
(11:39):
upbringing and all the things.
But still their thinking waswell, they're the kids, we're
the adults and you know, andthey'll figure it out.
Right, they'll go outside,they'll play, they'll figure it
out.
Whereas we're a little bit moresort of I felt like we were a
little bit more strategic onbehalf of our children.
Now, the flip side to that is,I think, when it doesn't work,
(12:03):
their resilience seems to be alot more fractured than mine was
for sure.
I feel like my peers right,because we skimped our knee and
nobody was home to like put thebandaid on it right.
So you know, you just did it,whereas I feel like this new
generation.
Sometimes they skin their kneeand that resilience takes a
little while.
(12:23):
So they have that self advocacyto begin with and it's the
pivot to figure out outside ofthat.
I mean, when you think aboutself advocacy and you think
about your own success inleadership, how did you develop
an articulation of self-advocacyand really owning your offers
(12:48):
and being confident bringingthose forward, and did you ever
have a situation where it didn'twork out so well?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
There have been tons of situations that haven't
worked out so well, I think forthe, I think for the
self-advocacy part, like to me,I think I think self-awareness
is so huge and I feel like very,very fortunate that early in my
career I worked for a companythat did a lot of training and a
lot of the training would bearound learning like who you are
and how you operate.
(13:21):
You know, so like what's your?
You know, you've heard likeMyers-Briggs personality tests,
things like that.
But you basically start torealize like, oh, I'm the way I
am and there's actually andthere's people who are totally
different ways, but these mystrengths and those things
really resonated with me, like Ihave learned a lot from various
different assessments.
They're all very consistent.
I'm a very specific type ofperson.
(13:41):
But what also resonated?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
with me is are you e-s-t-j?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
yeah, totally, totally, 100, seven ESTJ all the
way, okay, okay, yeah, so, likewhat you learn, you know, so,
so, but like there are reallygood things that um come from an
ESTJ personality right, likeyou get things done, you are
(14:07):
efficient, you are resultsoriented, you are all the stuff
and um.
And then there's things you'renot as good at.
Like you're, you can comeacross as less empathetic.
You, um, you know people canfeel like you're kind of like a
bulldozer, um, you know, and sobut I, I think once you kind of
learn all of that and you figureout what your strengths and
(14:28):
areas for improvement are andyou know that, then it becomes
much easier to articulate toothers and to self-advocate,
because you are, you'redescribing what it is you bring
to the table.
You can, you can humbly admitwhat you don't or where you, you
know where you focus onimproving.
But I think, I thinkself-advocacy is best when you,
(14:49):
when you understand, like theseare the things I'm good at,
these are the things that Ienjoy, and you kind of can lean
into that, things that didn't gowell, I mean, I can tell you
that, the one that I always usewhen asked about this, and
there's a million and 10examples, but I think the really
stark example is so I had aseries of leadership jobs.
After that first one I talkedabout, and because I had, you
(15:11):
know, done this turnaround thing, every assignment I was getting
we had talked about this.
I remember when we were atKellogg together, every
assignment I was getting wasanother turnaround.
Okay, so in assignment likefour, um, it was another
turnaround, the last one theyhad.
Only, I mean, they yanked mefrom it after a year.
I was like I at least want ayear to enjoy the work I did.
(15:31):
But no, they throw me into thenext one.
We were still getting our MBAs.
I had a ton on my plate, right,three young kids, new job,
getting an MBA.
And so I just kind of went inand it's like I know the
playbook, I run the playbook, Iknow how to you know, you got to
turn all these things aroundand you got to come in and blah,
blah, blah, and so I just gotto work like right away and like
(16:00):
six to nine months in, like Ihad not seen the shift that I
would have expected or that Ihad seen at that point in time
in my other assignments, andlike I don't understand like I'm
doing all the right, the samethings Like how, why is it not
working?
And and so I think it was likenine months.
I'm like I can't get to a yearin this and not figure out why
this isn't working.
So I asked my boss to like tryto suss it out for me, and she
went on like a listening tour ofteam members and what came out
(16:24):
which was really really likehard feedback to get at the time
, but I've learned so much fromit it was like you know,
basically Maggie came in herelike a bulldozer and didn't get
to know any of us or understandour business, or understand our
team or our approach or whatever.
And it's all business all thetime with like all this, you
know, criticism, we never havefun, we don't do anything, you
(16:46):
know nice, and blah, blah, blah,so, so like that was really
hard to hear, um, but I it hasbeen probably the most valuable
lesson ever because you can seeexactly how it happened.
That's the potential downsideof my personality type,
especially when you have otherfactors and stress and things
going on.
So I will never make thatmistake again.
(17:09):
Every new job I've gotten sinceI go in and it's like 90 days
of learning before we're goingto take action.
And I I think it was the lessonwas you got to get people in the
boat with you before you askthem to row, you know?
And um, anyways, I went, I wentback, right, I mean I think
that's exactly right, that'sexactly right.
And I mean I went to that team,um, which I I also am proud of
(17:32):
this Like I went to that teamand just kind of fell on the
sword.
I was like this is what cameout of, you know, our
understanding here.
And I'm very sorry, like I, I,in retrospect, I wish I had come
in here differently.
Blah, blah, blah, asked for areset, started doing things
differently and then, like then,within a few months, things
started turning around and wehad a great year.
So, like it all worked out.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
You know, that has kept me very humble ever since I
tell you, I have a similarstory, as you know, and I think
that is a priceless story.
Right, because we can fall intothis place of like rote
behavior, like I do.
This.
It comes out on the other endand it's so easy, especially
(18:18):
when we're super, super, superbusy.
But unpacking that, I think, isit becomes a superpower, right,
because you understand peopleand you understand the system
and the problem solving.
You can marry those together.
I truly believe that's whatamplifies some of us to great
(18:38):
heights of influence andopportunity and privilege to
lead, and some of us get startto get sidelined.
Right, because we forget thatit does not mean we still get it
right.
Right, because I think for me,it becomes every new assignment,
every new team, every new, anycommunity.
(18:59):
Right, it becomes a newopportunity to understand the
culture.
I think that's that's atakeaway from your, your
learning too.
It's understand the culture.
And then, when you understandthe culture, I think it's easier
then to figure out how toadvocate for yourself and how to
increase your confidence.
(19:19):
Have you ever, have you everfound that your confidence was
shaken and you needed to figureout how to pull it back up again
?
I mean, have you ever run intothat in your journey.
Oh my God, yes, um, what do youdo?
How do you get past that?
Because I think that you knowit's, we blow past some of those
(19:40):
things sometimes, but I believethat you know, in particular in
this time where systems arebeing shaken and rocked, and you
know, and some people arestraight up, brand spanking new
out of school and they're tryingto figure this out, right, what
would you tell them?
What kind of nuggets would youshare?
And they're trying to figurethis out, right.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
What?
What would you tell them?
What kind of nuggets would youshare?
I mean, I think the mostimportant thing you can do, um,
and I have learned this overyears and, looking back, I think
I did this not intentionally,it just kind of happened, but
now I do it intentionally Ithink you need to have your own
little group of cheerleaders andlike, because what I found is,
(20:20):
and these jobs, you know, thesejobs get lonelier and lonelier
Right and, and at some pointyou're in a big enough job that,
like I don't know, I don'treally expect my boss to tell me
all the things I'm doing.
Well, I don't get a lot ofpraise.
I and he's for sure going totell me about the things where
we're falling short, and that'sfine, I've kind of come to
expect it.
But it is kind of nice to bebuilt up every once in a while.
So I I have my little group ofyou know, I have a little group
(20:43):
of cheerleaders, right.
They're just people who, like,have come.
I mean they're friends of mine,they're you right, they're
people who I have gotten to know, I have relationships with, and
they also think the world of me, you know, and they, they like
I would call you or anyone elsein this little group if I need
like some pumping up honestlyand they'll do it Like.
So I think you know, I thinkthat's really important and I
(21:07):
think like innately.
You know, early in my career Ihad a really, really difficult
stint in a job with a verydifficult manager who was just
so like I felt like I gotberated every single day and you
start to be like, oh my God,like I thought yeah.
I thought I had gotten to whereI brought value but, apparently
I suck, you know, and but Ibecame very close with a couple
(21:31):
other people on the floor duringthat time.
We'd grab coffee.
They just felt so bad for me,you know, but they'd kind of
help bolster me up and so,anyways, I think I think it kind
of happened organically, butbut now I can put words to it
and it's like you need your ownlittle personal group of
cheerleaders, I think.
And you know, listen, sometimesyou're a young professional, it
could be your parents, it couldbe your, you know, college
friends.
My husband is like we talkedabout that earlier.
(21:52):
He's like my biggestcheerleader you up, when maybe
you're beaten down or notgetting pumped up by really
anyone else.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So I'm going to say the bold leap, that this
conversation on empowerment isvery much aligned to the
products that you sell and thethings that you do in your core
business every day.
Am I wrong there?
Because there's a whole newconversation around women and
(22:21):
women in our relationship withfinance and risk taking and
investment, that I think all ofthese, some of these same themes
of what you learn and what setsyou apart in the end, are kind
of right in the same lane.
Am I off on that?
Speaker 1 (22:38):
No, no, no, totally, it's all.
It's all the same things I meanthere are.
There are trends, both on, like, on the client side of things,
and how women think about, orwhat they do or don't know about
, um, wealth, money, all of thatstuff, and then, um, it's
totally, totally, and in manyhouseholds, like that just
(22:59):
hasn't been their role, you know.
But but 80 percent of women aregoing to have to run their
family finances at some point,because we are outliving men,
there's divorce, there's otherreasons, and so we know that
that population is hugelyimportant.
We talk to them differently,like we have events that are
specifically aimed towards thefemale demographic.
(23:21):
For exactly that reason, theconversations are different,
their concerns are different andtheir and their risk parameters
are different, which also leadsinto kind of the the working
part of the finance industry andhow, women being more risk
averse, there's less of us in,you know, investments and areas
like that.
So, and just like, when we makea recommendation, we always
(23:45):
want to be very thorough aboutall the reasons it might not
work, Whereas a male will justgive his recommendation and
because so?
So we're learning all of thesethings as we go, but a lot of
the same themes, you know, applyconfidence, risk taking,
feeling empowered, feelingself-assured, being able to
self-advocate, all of that.
All of that aligns with thefinancial side of things too.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Wow, do you think that there is a shift or a
change in the career lane ofwomen in finance for all our
girlies that are?
You know it's graduation seasonIf you're listening to the
podcast in time of taping, andyou've got a whole new breed of
Chantres and Maggie's that arecoming out with finance degrees
(24:29):
and otherwise, and they'rebright eyed and bushy tailed.
What would you tell them asthey start to walk into their
career?
That you wish you were told?
Or, because you see the trendsand the movements, you want to
tell them just to underscorewhat they may already know?
Speaker 1 (24:48):
I think I certainly hope that, yes, there will
continue to be more and morewomen in finance.
I think I think, generallyspeaking, there's a few things
that are really hopeful in thatregard, and one is how, um, some
of the advancements that havejust been made in society
whether it's ability to workremote or, um, even something as
(25:11):
easy as, like, your groceriescan be delivered by Amazon fresh
right, like your groceryshopping can be delivered to you
Like, there's a lot of thingsthat that, when you look at why
yeah, you look and you look atwhy a lot of women end up opting
out of the workforce, it's,it's usually because they or
finance, in particular, when youhad to be at a desk all day
long and, like they have to runthese things in their household.
(25:31):
There's a lot of ways to dothat now that aren't as time
consuming.
It's not to say it's likeperfectly easy, but it's much
easier, and I think because ofthat, many more people will
choose to balance it than, um,than completely opt out.
I the thing that we need tojust get better.
They, we, you need to seepeople like you to know that you
(25:53):
can sit there.
You know, and I think, like whenI started, um, there were women
in leadership.
They were few and far between.
There were women in leadership.
They were few and far between,but there were women in
leadership For whatever reasonin the world I was sitting.
They didn't have children andthat just was their personal
situations.
But I interpreted that as okay,you have to choose, like either
(26:14):
you're doing the family thing oryou're doing the big job thing,
but like I didn't see anyonewho was doing both, you know.
And so I do think part like Iwant there to be more examples
for these young women to see andbe able to say, okay, that
looks like me and what I wantand I can do that.
(26:34):
So, so we're doing really wellat the entry level, like it's
much more equitable, the malefemale breakdown.
But then as you, as you rise upthe ranks, it's still, it
starts to dwindle and shift andby the time you get, you know,
to my level or elsewhere, you're, you're not, um, you're, you're
(26:54):
not anywhere near 50, 50, youknow, and so, and I think that
impacts the aspirations andchoices that the people coming
up, you know, make.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So I think that's good, and I think that's an
important point too, becauseseeing yourself, seeing someone
that can just let you have thatvisual reassurance of what you
imagine is possible, is actuallypossible because it's been done
before.
That is so important.
I also think that somehow beingclear as clear as you can at
(27:30):
the moment that you're in rightnow on what it is that sets you
apart, that makes you differentand what's important to you,
what your values are, I think isreally, really important
because, just kind of doubleclicking on what you said, there
are so many tools that areavailable now to allow you to
(27:50):
extend your bandwidth, extendyour productivity.
It's increasing the amount ofchoices that you can make, right
, and so what are you going todo with that?
How are you going to, how areyou going to position that?
That's, that's right on, allright.
So, look, I got to get you onyour way because you're still
driving places.
That's what you do, but I haverapid fire for you.
(28:11):
I want to ask you a couple ofquestions, and you know you
gotta, you gotta, you gotta makethis go.
Your favorite, your favoriteapp or tool that keeps you on
track?
What's your favorite app ortool?
email oh, email, oh, it scaresme, it frustrates me, it does
overwhelms me it.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
It enables, yeah, yeah, but you know what it is
without it.
Like I'm doing this all thetime.
I'm in the car, I'm between thegames, I'm between the meetings
and, like, my email enables meto keep up with the job and,
like, keep things moving evenwhen I'm all about.
So I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Yeah, it's like a lifesaver, all right.
So then now, this is such thegreat question for you.
Inbox zero dream or reality.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Dream that's been a dream for years.
No, I can't.
I can't do it.
There's so much I can't do it.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
All right, and then this is the last one that I have
to ask you, because I know thatone of the things that we
bonded on when we walked intoNorthwestern University Kellogg
was I was like, okay, she hassome style, I see her, I see her
.
What's your power outfit?
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Oh, veronica Beard, I have two of them.
I have a pink, full pink powersuit like hot pink, and I have a
orange like coral orange, andthey have the great Veronica
buttons.
And yeah, that's another thingthat took confidence.
I used to dress in all blackbut I just was on two panels.
Reason I wore the pink suit andthe orange suit.
(29:36):
So I've decided to really ownthe feminine power thing.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yes, True story.
You wouldn't know this.
That's on my shopping list thisweekend.
Absolutely no way.
Oh, do it Because I love herand, yeah, I feel like I need to
bring more color into my life.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Have you seen the orange?
The orange would look so goodon you.
Oh, I'm going, and they have avest.
They have a vest part and thenormal blazer, so I have them
both there, you go.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I'm there, you're the best.
I love you so much.
Hugs and kisses to your familyand I look forward to talking to
you very soon.
Thank you for sharing withProven Not Perfect.
Maggie.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Chandra.
Okay, you were supposed to beat home.
You're not at home.
I'm seeing a car behind you.
What the heck?
What is going on?
This is feeling not perfect.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Yeah, life happens.
I got called down for anunexpected meeting Thought I
left with plenty of time to gethome to do this with you and
pulled over on the side of theroad because there was traffic
and you know, such as such asthe life we lead.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
So that's it, I swear um, you can have made this up.
It's exactly, it's supposed tobe right.
So I don't want to lose asecond of your time and I also
(00:59):
want to keep you moving.
But, um, first I have to sayhey, girl.
Hey, I said that I wasn't goingto say that the audacity to
have multiple children, agrowing corporate career and,
quite frankly, you and I bondedimmediately because we also had
the privilege of husbands whorecognized our potential and, in
(01:27):
some ways I won't say sacrifice, because I truly don't believe
that was the case for either ofthem they chose unconventional
approaches to support us andtheir belief in us and our
families.
And, girl, I don't even think Irealized at the time how
incredibly blessed I was in that.
I mean, have you ever thoughtabout that?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I I've thought about.
I think about it all the timeand I think about it again
recently because I just said yesto a little side job.
That means a lot to me and I'mpassionate about, but it means
more time away and this morningwas one of those examples.
So you know who's cartingaround the four kids to the
baseball and the soccer likethat's my husband and he didn't
(02:07):
blink an eye.
It was like, ok, we're going tomiss you, but if you want to do
it, go for it.
And I feel very, very luckythat I have that support.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
It's so good, All right.
So look, I want to start this.
When I thought of you, Maggie,immediately I thought of the
fact that, well, when I thoughtof you, Maggie, immediately I
(02:41):
thought of the fact that, well,talking to Maggie, who has this
wonderful position of influenceand leadership in the financial
industry in an amazing city Ithink one of the best cities in
America for an impressive andworld-renowned company with a
very vocal and present leader,like all those things line up to
you so immediately I startedthinking about all these
questions that kind of went downthat lane of finance and blah,
blah, blah.
(03:01):
I think it hit me very quicklywhen teasing this out with you
that the conversation for us,very much aligned and adjacent
to finance, is empowerment ofwomen in their careers, and I
think that it lines up so neatlyto just being empowered in
(03:24):
general and how that goes alongwith having options in life and
taking risks that are calculatedand seizing opportunities
without being held back.
And so does that resonate foryou?
Is that okay?
Can we just kind of take thatjourney?
Because if so, totally totally,yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I mean I think you know, yeah, for women, for women
in particular, the taking riskthing I think is a really big
topic, like I more and more seehow much more willing the male
gender is to kind of lean in andtake a risk and try for
something, and how much moresure women feel they need to be
(04:11):
before they do something.
And I think, um, you knowthat's, that's something we
should all be aware of and kindof embrace and then maybe push
ourselves a little bit to stepoutside of the comfort zone.
Um, because I think I thinkwe're ready for a lot more than
we sometimes realize we are, youknow.
So, encouraging everyone tokind of lean in, I think, is
(04:32):
I've just seen so much of thatrecently that if that was one,
one message I could convey isgoing to push, push ourselves to
lean in a little bit- I lovethat.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So let's let's take it back a little bit.
When you started your career infinance, did you fully
appreciate the power andposition you were bringing just
with your offers that you walkedin the door with, or was that a
process of becoming the provenleader that you are?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
No, I had no idea.
I um, I mean gosh, I started ina training program so my first
job was just to learn, to learnthe job I was eventually going
to do.
The job I was eventually goingto do was be a commercial banker
for companies, Um, but at agelike 23, I was asked to go out
(05:26):
and bring in business, go getthese companies to come work for
you, and I'm like why wouldthey work with a 23 year old
woman who has never run amanufacturing plant and doesn't
know anything about theirbusiness?
You know so.
So, no, I mean, I entered theworkforce feeling like you know,
I don't know anything about thereal world.
I've been a student, you know myentire life and um, have no
(05:49):
idea what I brought to the tableand probably brought.
You know much less than I donow, just given the experience.
But I think it's a, it's alearned thing as you go about um
life.
I think that's the other thingis, it's very easy still to
focus on the stuff you don'thave or the stuff you feel you
aren't as good at, and, um, Iwish I had learned earlier on to
(06:11):
like lean in and appreciate thethings I did have and did bring
to the table, you know, even at23 years old, with those
business owners.
Fine, I didn't have theexperience, but you know what,
Like, I always called them back.
I was very reachable, Ifollowed through on every
commitment.
I didn't know the answers tomost anything, but I'd find them
out and I'd come back, you know, and in the end that was a
(06:32):
value to people, you know, andso, but it took me a long time
to figure that out and have theconfidence that, like that, what
I was bringing was enough Atsome point, too, you realize
that something is becoming atheme, and that is you're being
(06:53):
consistently pulled into roomsand situations to do what you do
.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
And I think it was that piece that really started
to get me to say, well, hang onhere.
If they're seeing something tokeep pulling me in, I might own
actually stopping, pausing andfiguring out just what that is
right and asking the questionwhy why am I here?
(07:22):
Asking the question why why amI here?
What was your evolution to theplace where you went from?
I'm doing a good job, I'mworking hard, I'm being pulled
in the room to, I know who I am,I know what I offer and I know
what I'm packing Do you rememberthat?
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Hmm, yeah, I do.
It took, I think.
I think I would call that.
I'm sure there's been a numberof them, but I think the moment
that comes to mind most readilyis because I felt like for the
start of my career, up throughthat first management job, like
while I, while I was ambitiousand I wanted the next thing, I
(08:06):
also just constantly felt like Ireally had to prove myself.
You know, that first managementjob, and you feel like, oh God,
I'm like younger than the otherpeople in this room and I'm the
newest manager and I have tolike be extra, extra good in
order for these people to takeme seriously.
And, you know, you just feelkind of like an imposter, the
whole.
I mean, it's a very real thing,the imposter syndrome, like you
feel like you know, I don'tknow like should I be here?
(08:29):
Did I earn this?
I be here, did I earn this,whatever?
And I think, I think you knowthat first assignment I had as a
leader and manager was a verybig turnaround situation.
In retrospect it was probablysmart of the firm because there
was very low risk in putting meinto it.
There was nowhere further to godown, right, but we ended up
having a hugely, a hugelysuccessful turnaround and, you
(08:51):
know, by a year in, like thatteam had become the top ranked
in in our system.
And um, I think that's when Ifinally was like, okay, you know
what, like I, I haven'taccomplished.
Like it's like I felt like Ihad a resume, you know, it's
like I have a tangibleaccomplishment under my belt.
And so now, like, if I feellike people don't think I'm
(09:13):
qualified or aren't taking meseriously, like I had built
enough, like in an innate kindof sense of accomplishment, and
felt like you know what,continuing to give yourself,
like the positive reinforcementthat like no, we haven't
(09:38):
achieved what we're trying toyet, but that doesn't mean that
you don't belong in the role andit doesn't mean that you
shouldn't have confidence in themeantime.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I think that when I reflect on this generation, as I
spend time with, you know, myoldest child's peer group, they
bring a clarity about what theirmagic sauce is.
That is unbelievable to me,because I know for sure that it
(10:09):
took me a while to be able toarticulate that, and I think
they have almost the flipsituation going on, because,
where I didn't have thatarticulation early on, I just
knew that I was going to workhard, I was going to learn
everything, I was going tolisten intently, I was going to
watch, I was going to.
(10:29):
I just knew that I was bringinga mindset to it.
They, however, come in with allthe things that I think I would
begin to unfold Right, and so,if anything, it's the reverse
situation.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
They're coming.
Are they being taught that Like?
How do they?
How Like?
Are they being taught to givethat thought, or do you think
that's?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I think it's.
I think I think we raised them.
I feel like my peer group hasraised this generation to have
all the deposits that maybe wedidn't have.
And the other thing too, Ithink that we've spent I
certainly did, you probably toogiving them the opportunity to
try so many things so thatthey're even as younger people
(11:16):
they have an articulation of ohyeah, I tried, I tried that.
I'm not good at that, but I amgood at that Right, there's so
many opportunities for them tosort of see what fits where.
I feel like the generation thatraised me, you know, with
multiple kids and being aworking woman and pursuing
higher education and you knowmom and dad and great, great
(11:39):
upbringing and all the things.
But still their thinking waswell, they're the kids, we're
the adults and you know, andthey'll figure it out.
Right, they'll go outside,they'll play, they'll figure it
out.
Whereas we're a little bit moresort of I felt like we were a
little bit more strategic onbehalf of our children.
Now, the flip side to that is,I think, when it doesn't work,
(12:03):
their resilience seems to be alot more fractured than mine was
for sure.
I feel like my peers right,because we skimped our knee and
nobody was home to like put thebandaid on it right.
So you know, you just did it,whereas I feel like this new
generation.
Sometimes they skin their kneeand that resilience takes a
little while.
(12:23):
So they have that self advocacyto begin with and it's the
pivot to figure out outside ofthat.
I mean, when you think aboutself advocacy and you think
about your own success inleadership, how did you develop
an articulation of self-advocacyand really owning your offers
(12:48):
and being confident bringingthose forward, and did you ever
have a situation where it didn'twork out so well?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
There have been tons of situations that haven't
worked out so well, I think forthe, I think for the
self-advocacy part, like to me,I think I think self-awareness
is so huge and I feel like very,very fortunate that early in my
career I worked for a companythat did a lot of training and a
lot of the training would bearound learning like who you are
and how you operate.
(13:21):
You know, so like what's your?
You know, you've heard likeMyers-Briggs personality tests,
things like that.
But you basically start torealize like, oh, I'm the way I
am and there's actually andthere's people who are totally
different ways, but these mystrengths and those things
really resonated with me, like Ihave learned a lot from various
different assessments.
They're all very consistent.
I'm a very specific type ofperson.
(13:41):
But what also resonated?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
with me is are you e-s-t-j?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
yeah, totally, totally, 100, seven ESTJ all the
way, okay, okay, yeah, so, likewhat you learn, you know, so,
so, but like there are reallygood things that um come from an
ESTJ personality right, likeyou get things done, you are
(14:07):
efficient, you are resultsoriented, you are all the stuff
and um.
And then there's things you'renot as good at.
Like you're, you can comeacross as less empathetic.
You, um, you know people canfeel like you're kind of like a
bulldozer, um, you know, and sobut I, I think once you kind of
learn all of that and you figureout what your strengths and
(14:28):
areas for improvement are andyou know that, then it becomes
much easier to articulate toothers and to self-advocate,
because you are, you'redescribing what it is you bring
to the table.
You can, you can humbly admitwhat you don't or where you, you
know where you focus onimproving.
But I think, I thinkself-advocacy is best when you,
(14:49):
when you understand, like theseare the things I'm good at,
these are the things that Ienjoy, and you kind of can lean
into that, things that didn't gowell, I mean, I can tell you
that, the one that I always usewhen asked about this, and
there's a million and 10examples, but I think the really
stark example is so I had aseries of leadership jobs.
After that first one I talkedabout, and because I had, you
(15:11):
know, done this turnaround thing, every assignment I was getting
we had talked about this.
I remember when we were atKellogg together, every
assignment I was getting wasanother turnaround.
Okay, so in assignment likefour, um, it was another
turnaround, the last one theyhad.
Only, I mean, they yanked mefrom it after a year.
I was like I at least want ayear to enjoy the work I did.
(15:31):
But no, they throw me into thenext one.
We were still getting our MBAs.
I had a ton on my plate, right,three young kids, new job,
getting an MBA.
And so I just kind of went inand it's like I know the
playbook, I run the playbook, Iknow how to you know, you got to
turn all these things aroundand you got to come in and blah,
blah, blah, and so I just gotto work like right away and like
(16:00):
six to nine months in, like Ihad not seen the shift that I
would have expected or that Ihad seen at that point in time
in my other assignments, andlike I don't understand like I'm
doing all the right, the samethings Like how, why is it not
working?
And and so I think it was likenine months.
I'm like I can't get to a yearin this and not figure out why
this isn't working.
So I asked my boss to like tryto suss it out for me, and she
went on like a listening tour ofteam members and what came out
(16:24):
which was really really likehard feedback to get at the time
, but I've learned so much fromit it was like you know,
basically Maggie came in herelike a bulldozer and didn't get
to know any of us or understandour business, or understand our
team or our approach or whatever.
And it's all business all thetime with like all this, you
know, criticism, we never havefun, we don't do anything, you
(16:46):
know nice, and blah, blah, blah,so, so like that was really
hard to hear, um, but I it hasbeen probably the most valuable
lesson ever because you can seeexactly how it happened.
That's the potential downsideof my personality type,
especially when you have otherfactors and stress and things
going on.
So I will never make thatmistake again.
(17:09):
Every new job I've gotten sinceI go in and it's like 90 days
of learning before we're goingto take action.
And I I think it was the lessonwas you got to get people in the
boat with you before you askthem to row, you know?
And um, anyways, I went, I wentback, right, I mean I think
that's exactly right, that'sexactly right.
And I mean I went to that team,um, which I I also am proud of
(17:32):
this Like I went to that teamand just kind of fell on the
sword.
I was like this is what cameout of, you know, our
understanding here.
And I'm very sorry, like I, I,in retrospect, I wish I had come
in here differently.
Blah, blah, blah, asked for areset, started doing things
differently and then, like then,within a few months, things
started turning around and wehad a great year.
So, like it all worked out.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
You know, that has kept me very humble ever since I
tell you, I have a similarstory, as you know, and I think
that is a priceless story.
Right, because we can fall intothis place of like rote
behavior, like I do.
This.
It comes out on the other endand it's so easy, especially
(18:18):
when we're super, super, superbusy.
But unpacking that, I think, isit becomes a superpower, right,
because you understand peopleand you understand the system
and the problem solving.
You can marry those together.
I truly believe that's whatamplifies some of us to great
(18:38):
heights of influence andopportunity and privilege to
lead, and some of us get startto get sidelined.
Right, because we forget thatit does not mean we still get it
right.
Right, because I think for me,it becomes every new assignment,
every new team, every new, anycommunity.
(18:59):
Right, it becomes a newopportunity to understand the
culture.
I think that's that's atakeaway from your, your
learning too.
It's understand the culture.
And then, when you understandthe culture, I think it's easier
then to figure out how toadvocate for yourself and how to
increase your confidence.
(19:19):
Have you ever, have you everfound that your confidence was
shaken and you needed to figureout how to pull it back up again
?
I mean, have you ever run intothat in your journey.
Oh my God, yes, um, what do youdo?
How do you get past that?
Because I think that you knowit's, we blow past some of those
(19:40):
things sometimes, but I believethat you know, in particular in
this time where systems arebeing shaken and rocked, and you
know, and some people arestraight up, brand spanking new
out of school and they're tryingto figure this out, right, what
would you tell them?
What kind of nuggets would youshare?
And they're trying to figurethis out, right.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
What?
What would you tell them?
What kind of nuggets would youshare?
I mean, I think the mostimportant thing you can do, um,
and I have learned this overyears and, looking back, I think
I did this not intentionally,it just kind of happened, but
now I do it intentionally Ithink you need to have your own
little group of cheerleaders andlike, because what I found is,
(20:20):
and these jobs, you know, thesejobs get lonelier and lonelier
Right and, and at some pointyou're in a big enough job that,
like I don't know, I don'treally expect my boss to tell me
all the things I'm doing.
Well, I don't get a lot ofpraise.
I and he's for sure going totell me about the things where
we're falling short, and that'sfine, I've kind of come to
expect it.
But it is kind of nice to bebuilt up every once in a while.
So I I have my little group ofyou know, I have a little group
(20:43):
of cheerleaders, right.
They're just people who, like,have come.
I mean they're friends of mine,they're you right, they're
people who I have gotten to know, I have relationships with, and
they also think the world of me, you know, and they, they like
I would call you or anyone elsein this little group if I need
like some pumping up honestlyand they'll do it Like.
So I think you know, I thinkthat's really important and I
(21:07):
think like innately.
You know, early in my career Ihad a really, really difficult
stint in a job with a verydifficult manager who was just
so like I felt like I gotberated every single day and you
start to be like, oh my God,like I thought yeah.
I thought I had gotten to whereI brought value but, apparently
I suck, you know, and but Ibecame very close with a couple
(21:31):
other people on the floor duringthat time.
We'd grab coffee.
They just felt so bad for me,you know, but they'd kind of
help bolster me up and so,anyways, I think I think it kind
of happened organically, butbut now I can put words to it
and it's like you need your ownlittle personal group of
cheerleaders, I think.
And you know, listen, sometimesyou're a young professional, it
could be your parents, it couldbe your, you know, college
friends.
My husband is like we talkedabout that earlier.
(21:52):
He's like my biggestcheerleader you up, when maybe
you're beaten down or notgetting pumped up by really
anyone else.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So I'm going to say the bold leap, that this
conversation on empowerment isvery much aligned to the
products that you sell and thethings that you do in your core
business every day.
Am I wrong there?
Because there's a whole newconversation around women and
(22:21):
women in our relationship withfinance and risk taking and
investment, that I think all ofthese, some of these same themes
of what you learn and what setsyou apart in the end, are kind
of right in the same lane.
Am I off on that?
Speaker 1 (22:38):
No, no, no, totally, it's all.
It's all the same things I meanthere are.
There are trends, both on, like, on the client side of things,
and how women think about, orwhat they do or don't know about
, um, wealth, money, all of thatstuff, and then, um, it's
totally, totally, and in manyhouseholds, like that just
(22:59):
hasn't been their role, you know.
But but 80 percent of women aregoing to have to run their
family finances at some point,because we are outliving men,
there's divorce, there's otherreasons, and so we know that
that population is hugelyimportant.
We talk to them differently,like we have events that are
specifically aimed towards thefemale demographic.
(23:21):
For exactly that reason, theconversations are different,
their concerns are different andtheir and their risk parameters
are different, which also leadsinto kind of the the working
part of the finance industry andhow, women being more risk
averse, there's less of us in,you know, investments and areas
like that.
So, and just like, when we makea recommendation, we always
(23:45):
want to be very thorough aboutall the reasons it might not
work, Whereas a male will justgive his recommendation and
because so?
So we're learning all of thesethings as we go, but a lot of
the same themes, you know, applyconfidence, risk taking,
feeling empowered, feelingself-assured, being able to
self-advocate, all of that.
All of that aligns with thefinancial side of things too.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Wow, do you think that there is a shift or a
change in the career lane ofwomen in finance for all our
girlies that are?
You know it's graduation seasonIf you're listening to the
podcast in time of taping, andyou've got a whole new breed of
Chantres and Maggie's that arecoming out with finance degrees
(24:29):
and otherwise, and they'rebright eyed and bushy tailed.
What would you tell them asthey start to walk into their
career?
That you wish you were told?
Or, because you see the trendsand the movements, you want to
tell them just to underscorewhat they may already know?
Speaker 1 (24:48):
I think I certainly hope that, yes, there will
continue to be more and morewomen in finance.
I think I think, generallyspeaking, there's a few things
that are really hopeful in thatregard, and one is how, um, some
of the advancements that havejust been made in society
whether it's ability to workremote or, um, even something as
(25:11):
easy as, like, your groceriescan be delivered by Amazon fresh
right, like your groceryshopping can be delivered to you
Like, there's a lot of thingsthat that, when you look at why
yeah, you look and you look atwhy a lot of women end up opting
out of the workforce, it's,it's usually because they or
finance, in particular, when youhad to be at a desk all day
long and, like they have to runthese things in their household.
(25:31):
There's a lot of ways to dothat now that aren't as time
consuming.
It's not to say it's likeperfectly easy, but it's much
easier, and I think because ofthat, many more people will
choose to balance it than, um,than completely opt out.
I the thing that we need tojust get better.
They, we, you need to seepeople like you to know that you
(25:53):
can sit there.
You know, and I think, like whenI started, um, there were women
in leadership.
They were few and far between.
There were women in leadership.
They were few and far between,but there were women in
leadership For whatever reasonin the world I was sitting.
They didn't have children andthat just was their personal
situations.
But I interpreted that as okay,you have to choose, like either
(26:14):
you're doing the family thing oryou're doing the big job thing,
but like I didn't see anyonewho was doing both, you know.
And so I do think part like Iwant there to be more examples
for these young women to see andbe able to say, okay, that
looks like me and what I wantand I can do that.
(26:34):
So, so we're doing really wellat the entry level, like it's
much more equitable, the malefemale breakdown.
But then as you, as you rise upthe ranks, it's still, it
starts to dwindle and shift andby the time you get, you know,
to my level or elsewhere, you're, you're not, um, you're, you're
(26:54):
not anywhere near 50, 50, youknow, and so, and I think that
impacts the aspirations andchoices that the people coming
up, you know, make.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So I think that's good, and I think that's an
important point too, becauseseeing yourself, seeing someone
that can just let you have thatvisual reassurance of what you
imagine is possible, is actuallypossible because it's been done
before.
That is so important.
I also think that somehow beingclear as clear as you can at
(27:30):
the moment that you're in rightnow on what it is that sets you
apart, that makes you differentand what's important to you,
what your values are, I think isreally, really important
because, just kind of doubleclicking on what you said, there
are so many tools that areavailable now to allow you to
(27:50):
extend your bandwidth, extendyour productivity.
It's increasing the amount ofchoices that you can make, right
, and so what are you going todo with that?
How are you going to, how areyou going to position that?
That's, that's right on, allright.
So, look, I got to get you onyour way because you're still
driving places.
That's what you do, but I haverapid fire for you.
(28:11):
I want to ask you a couple ofquestions, and you know you
gotta, you gotta, you gotta makethis go.
Your favorite, your favoriteapp or tool that keeps you on
track?
What's your favorite app ortool?
email oh, email, oh, it scaresme, it frustrates me, it does
overwhelms me it.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
It enables, yeah, yeah, but you know what it is
without it.
Like I'm doing this all thetime.
I'm in the car, I'm between thegames, I'm between the meetings
and, like, my email enables meto keep up with the job and,
like, keep things moving evenwhen I'm all about.
So I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Yeah, it's like a lifesaver, all right.
So then now, this is such thegreat question for you.
Inbox zero dream or reality.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Dream that's been a dream for years.
No, I can't.
I can't do it.
There's so much I can't do it.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
All right, and then this is the last one that I have
to ask you, because I know thatone of the things that we
bonded on when we walked intoNorthwestern University Kellogg
was I was like, okay, she hassome style, I see her, I see her
.
What's your power outfit?
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Oh, veronica Beard, I have two of them.
I have a pink, full pink powersuit like hot pink, and I have a
orange like coral orange, andthey have the great Veronica
buttons.
And yeah, that's another thingthat took confidence.
I used to dress in all blackbut I just was on two panels.
Reason I wore the pink suit andthe orange suit.
(29:36):
So I've decided to really ownthe feminine power thing.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yes, True story.
You wouldn't know this.
That's on my shopping list thisweekend.
Absolutely no way.
Oh, do it Because I love herand, yeah, I feel like I need to
bring more color into my life.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Have you seen the orange?
The orange would look so goodon you.
Oh, I'm going, and they have avest.
They have a vest part and thenormal blazer, so I have them
both there, you go.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I'm there, you're the best.
I love you so much.
Hugs and kisses to your familyand I look forward to talking to
you very soon.
Thank you for sharing withProven Not Perfect.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.