November 26, 2025 • 50 mins
If the mirror could talk, would it tell the truth you’ve been avoiding—or the story you’re ready to live? I sit down with Mandy Tucker, a veteran tech leader who expanded her career into coaching and personal styling for midlife professional women, to unpack how mindset, vision, and wardrobe can work together to change your confidence and your results. The conversation begins with life in the UK and moves into a practical framework for aligning who you’re becoming with how you show up.
Mandy breaks down the difference between a checklist and a calling: vision sets direction, goals deliver momentum. Before any shopping list, she starts with mirror honesty—naming the beliefs that shrink presence and keep us dressing to hide. From there, she shows how body shape, proportion, and lifestyle should drive choices, why Pinterest boards often mislead, and how to become your own influencer by building a repeatable set of silhouettes that actually fit your life. We touch on the PIE model—performance, image, exposure—and why image isn’t about designer labels; it’s about clarity, coherence, and the energy you project.
We also get real about pivots. They rarely arrive glamorous. More often they emerge from friction, fatigue, or a mismatch between your values and your environment. Mandy shares how she moved from tech leadership into coaching and style, what midlife women uniquely face, and how “pivot and pursue” can turn a hard season into a launchpad. Along the way, cultural touchpoints—from British reserve to American boldness, from Meghan’s public reception to Victoria Beckham’s reinvention—highlight how narrative, presence, and resilience shape opportunity.
If you’re ready to dress for your dreams, not the algorithm, and to align your inner voice with your outer signal, this one’s for you. Listen, subscribe, and share with a friend who’s ready to expand. And if this conversation helped you see yourself more clearly, leave a review—tell us the one belief you’re dropping this week.
Drive, Ambition, Doing, Leading, Creating... all good until we forget about our own self-care. This Village of All-Stars pays it forward with transparency about misses and celebration in winning. We cover many topics and keep it 100. We are Proven Not Perfect™️
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (01:47):
Proven that perfect.
I am so excited that you arehere today.
You are about to enjoy awonderful trip around the world,
cross the pond, cross theAtlantic, smack dad landing into
the United Kingdom, GreatBritain, where we're gonna talk
to an executive of many years,Mandy Tucker, who is killing the
(02:08):
game in technology, but she'salso killing the game and
expanding her offers to do greatthings for women in career.
And you know that that's all Ineed to make sure that I tap
into that energy, those ideas,and bring them to you because
that's what we do.
So stick around, enjoy thisconversation with Mandy Tucker.
(02:33):
And just to tease you a littlebit, if you enjoy this
conversation and you want more,you want focused one-on-one time
with Mandy and I, stick around.
There's a big announcementcoming soon.
Enjoy Proven Not Perfect, myconversation with Mandy Tucker.
Hi Mandy, how are you across thepond?
SPEAKER_00 (02:56):
Hi, Chantra.
I'm really, really good.
Good afternoon, right?
To you.
It's coming into my evening, butgood afternoon.
SPEAKER_01 (03:02):
Good afternoon.
Oh my God.
So I think everybody's gonnalove this conversation because
of your accent alone.
Very proper.
Catch me up.
Tell me what's going on acrossthe pond.
I specifically wanna understanda little bit about the tone and
tenure right now.
Um, over in the great UK, GreatBritain.
Um, I'd love to hear the toneand tenure of just kind of what
(03:25):
life is like there right now.
SPEAKER_00 (03:28):
Life is, I don't want to say hard because there
are plenty of people across thisworld that are having life a lot
harder than us, right?
But definitely the economy isbiting, it's expensive.
People want experience and amore kind of luxurious life, but
I think they're finding just weare just working really, really
(03:48):
hard to keep up with theday-to-day, right?
And I think sometimes thatbecomes a bit of a struggle.
Um, just like the US, there area lot of uh people, especially
women, who are tapping intotheir passions, creating
businesses and trying to elevatetheir lives, which is amazing.
But yeah, it's it's it's yeah,we're doing what we need to do
over here to just keep going,right?
(04:10):
Keep going and and you know,just make make good lives for
ourselves and our families.
SPEAKER_01 (04:14):
You talk about women in career right now and some of
the choices that folks aremaking.
And I know that you yourselfhave made a bit of a pivot as
well, or an expansion.
I don't want to call it a pivotin your call and expansion, and
I think that's a beautiful termthat I've certainly been
(04:35):
exploring lately as well,because what it says is it
doesn't have to be either thisor that.
It can yes and it's oh my gosh,exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (04:47):
Yeah, exactly.
And I think that's the beautifulthing about being and feeling
empowered to do something morewith your life, right?
And not to feel restricted.
Because I think as we comethrough our careers, as we come
through our lives and grow upinto midlife, you know, where
where I'm at, it's like we'refor so long, we've kind of been
(05:07):
in these boxes that says youhave to be one thing.
You can only do this and excelin that space.
But I think the journey that I'mon, and so many women I talk to
are on is that no, we canexpand.
We have so many skills andexperiences to bring to the
table, and that is where ourpower really lies.
And I think that's been part ofmy own expansion over these last
(05:29):
few years.
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
Oh boy, I love that.
So I'm gonna just say when Ifirst experienced women in
career in London, it was in themid-90s.
Um, I had the privilege of doinga succumbment there with a
British firm in finance.
(05:50):
And it was a wonderful,wonderful experience for me.
Met some beautiful people, wishthat it was a time where social
media was prevalent because Iknow I would have maintained
contact with a lot of greatpeople that I quite frankly I
lost contact with.
Um, that doesn't mean we won'tbump into each other again, but
um, you know, that part's alittle, a little sad.
(06:13):
But I I wanted to say, you know,I can remember on my quiet
Saturdays.
I lived, uh, you know, you knowyou were privileged in in this
opportunity when your housing,the company sponsored, was in
South Kensington.
Oh my!
SPEAKER_00 (06:30):
Uh-oh.
Yes, you were privileged.
That was a good job.
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
I still remember it was number two Collingham
Gardens, is where I lived.
SPEAKER_00 (06:40):
That was just the name alone.
SPEAKER_01 (06:42):
That was the flat, right?
And I was right around from theRoyal Albert.
Um, and I tell you, I canremember, you know, on my quiet
Saturdays, kind of walkingaround as a young American woman
um beginning her career infinance and seeing these women
(07:04):
that I would describe theBritish women that I met,
whether it was on the streetwhen I was kind of walking
around, or whether it was in umin the office um at uh at East
Allgate.
It was they were a reserved yetforceful.
(07:29):
They were a bit quiet in theirtone, but they were very loud,
they were um very gracious, butthey were very clear, and I can
remember picking up on thosesignals that really impressed
(07:52):
me, really called me, wherewhere this this femininity could
possess all of thosejuxtapositions just as a
cultural nuance.
Does any of that resonate foryou?
Have I tapped into somethingthat you grew up understanding,
appreciating, or maybe youdidn't see it that way?
SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
I didn't I didn't necessarily see it that way,
right?
And I don't think growing up, asin, you know, in my early 20s
and even 30s, I I reallyappreciated the nuances of what
was around me in my workplace.
It was more around climbing thecorporate ladder, but I I kind
of see it a little bitdifferently, right?
Because I were I rememberworking with you, Chantra,
really clearly, because you werethe lady with the American
(08:37):
accent that lit up every room,right?
Oh no, but it's true with yourknowledge, your experience, your
beauty, your elegance, yourstyle.
Um, and I don't thinknecessarily that as women in the
UK, we embrace that enough.
Yes, there's a quiet elegancethere, there's a quiet
(09:00):
something, but a lot of it sitsbelow the surface because we're
not quite ready or feelingcomfortable with really
expressing ourselves in thatway, in that I'm owning this
room way.
Um, and I think that's holds usback somewhat.
SPEAKER_01 (09:16):
So I wonder, it's it's so I think it's so
beautiful to sharecross-cultural experiences and
viewpoints because I wonder ifme landing in London with such
an American experience and yougrowing in London with such a
British experience, that sameessence can be seen through two
(09:40):
different lenses where maybe Iwas happy to hear some people be
quiet a little bit.
SPEAKER_00 (09:45):
And as you as you were talking, it's exactly that.
It's all about perspective.
Yeah, it really is all aboutperspective and where you're
coming from and therefore howyou experience that moment.
SPEAKER_02 (09:56):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (09:56):
And not one of them is wrong, nope and not one of
them is more right, it's justdifferent.
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
So, how would you say when you think about women
in career and piercing those,those um, those goals, those
goals, those objectives in yourwalk, in your journey?
Um, how would you describe thatum, you know, as a British woman
(10:21):
in in that experience?
Um and how would you contrastthat to some of what you see in
your counterparts who may bebringing in alter other cultural
nuances?
SPEAKER_00 (10:32):
Yeah.
And it's funny, I see yourvision board behind you, right?
Um I'm a big I'm a big goalsetter, vision board person, you
know, let's put it out there,let's get it done.
SPEAKER_01 (10:43):
Oh, wait, hang on, hang on.
We gotta we gotta pin that onefor a second because I've been
having a very real relationshipwith this conversation around
goals.
And the relationship has shiftedfrom have your goals written
down and focused on followed totap into what you see, your
(11:08):
vision, and bring that vision tolife because it's what's calling
you.
Um a little bit different,nuanced shift for me in the way
I think about it.
So I before you go on, I justneed to know do you think about
goals in the traditional way ofby the end of the year, I want
to do these 10 things, or do youspend time really sort of
(11:30):
tapping into what is I do both.
SPEAKER_00 (11:33):
I do both.
And for me, there is such aconnection that brings the whole
vision to life.
Because yeah, I will spend timetapping into, well, that woman
that I want to become, how doesshe walk?
How does she talk?
Where does she spend time andwho does she spend time with,
right?
So as a stylist, we've said I'veexpanded into this area of work.
I'm a personal stylist formidlife professional women.
(11:56):
Women, how does a stylist thatworks with women like that, how
would she experience life?
And I think once I have a clearvision of her, it helps me then
execute on the one, two, threeof the goals, right?
And at the beginning of theyear, yeah, I'll at the
beginning of the year, I willwrite those goals down.
My family knows those goals willbe on that fridge, right?
And I will be ticking them off,hopefully, God willing, as we
(12:18):
move through the year.
But the vision needs to bereally clear, otherwise, it's
easy to get distracted if you donot have that safe haven in
terms of what the vision reallylooks like and feels like for
you.
SPEAKER_01 (12:30):
So you keep the two together.
You keep vision and then yougive written statements.
And that's right.
SPEAKER_00 (12:41):
Yeah, I'm sure you do, right?
Because I think it's about theemotion, the feeling, you know,
and how do you know you'rethere?
Once you've ticked off thosegoals, it's great saying yes, I
I ran an event this year or Idid this conference.
Did it actually feel the way youwanted it to?
SPEAKER_01 (12:56):
Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
I think is really important to just check back in
with that vision piece.
SPEAKER_01 (13:02):
Okay, back to the regularly scheduled program.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:05):
So I'm gonna try and remember the question.
SPEAKER_01 (13:09):
Um, we were walking down the journey of just women
in career um and that culturalexperience that you have from a
British viewpoint versus perhapsanother countercultural.
SPEAKER_00 (13:25):
Yeah, I think from a career's perspective, we're very
much in Britain, in the UK, onthat path of we want to climb
the corporate ladder, right?
Getting into the C-suite,become, you know, being middle
management, becoming CEO, all ofthat.
On a lot of women's minds,that's the aspiration, that's
the goal.
But I think it's the same inAmerica, child.
(13:47):
That's the same thing.
It is the same in America, but Ithink the American women have
embraced more of um a wholenessabout themselves, right?
That I can be anyone I want tobe.
So, yes, I can climb thecorporate ladder, but if I want
to own a business, I can do thattoo, at the best of my ability.
You know, I can be anyone.
(14:07):
And I think no one route.
That's right.
No one rope, right?
Route, route.
And if you talk to you UK women,they will always say, Oh my
gosh, American women know how todo things and to do it right.
You will always have, you know,the best visuals, the best
voice, the best um quote willcome out, the best um, you know,
(14:29):
um outfit.
The Americans from the UK arealways seen as doing it just
that bit better.
But I do see that us as UK womenare catching up, we're doing our
thing, we're becoming morevisible, and I think that's
great, a great place to be.
SPEAKER_01 (14:46):
You know, I'm gonna say um one of the other things
that I do remember is I felt inthe in the mid-90s uh being a
sponsored um apprentice to theUK director of the finance firm
that I was a part of, beingbeing the only um young black
(15:08):
woman um sort of in my sphere,and it was very male dominated
from a professional standpoint.
Say said that wrong.
From a ranking standpoint, itfelt very male-dominated.
There were very professionalwomen, but they seemed to all
(15:29):
have more of a secretarial role.
And that honestly wasn't longago.
This was, you know, this was1995, right?
I mean, technically speaking,that's not long ago, right?
SPEAKER_00 (15:40):
It's not long ago.
It's not, it's not.
SPEAKER_01 (15:42):
So when you think about, you know, just even at
that time, the the difference,the the juxtaposition of me,
this young black woman sponsoredby the New York office, by the
managing executive to go overand apprentice the commercial
director for all of the world ofthe firm's commercial director.
(16:05):
And my first time living andworking out of the United
States, um, and just having anincredible experience to pick up
on the energy and the thingsthat that I I didn't, I was too
young to really quiteunderstand, right?
Um I know that there was therewere looks about the office.
(16:32):
I know that there were maybesome laughter, and not in a
cruel way, but more in that Ifelt the women were always sort
of in it, we call itside-eyeing, right?
Where you're kind of likesomebody's kind of looking at
you like, what is she doing?
Because I didn't even know thenorms that I was breaking.
I didn't even understand thenorms that I was breaking.
(16:56):
And it's only in thisconversation with you that I
feel like I'm unpacking somethings that that were literally
in there that I haven't talkedto in since ever.
Because you know, you just go,go, go.
SPEAKER_00 (17:09):
Man, that's yeah, yeah, yeah.
I can I can imagine thereception that you received, and
not that it necessarilydepending on the organization,
that it would have been a badreception, but it would have
been met probably with some whois she?
Who is she?
Yeah, a little bit of you know,magnetism around that.
How do we approach her?
(17:29):
How do we, you know, accept herinto this this sphere and and
and still maintain our own, youknow, you know, you want to
still maintain your ownintegrity and kudos, right?
You don't want to be swamped,but it's it's it's because I
think you know, American women,some, not all, right?
And I don't want to generalizebecause there are many
beautiful, um, brilliant,brilliant British women that are
(17:54):
doing great things.
One of them.
Oh, bless you, bless you, blessyou.
But I think there's always beenthat kind of viewpoint of
American women that you're doingthings in a great way.
And how can we emulate and andreally celebrate what you do?
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
Wow.
Okay, so now let's double-clickon here you are in this
professional corporate um USfirm um working in in uh the UK.
Um, and now you are expandinginto bigger leadership
responsibilities, but you'realso expanding your creativity
(18:31):
and your ideas.
I can't imagine it was the normfor you to step out and
expanding this way.
So, you know, is that was someof that just something you
couldn't deny?
There's there's something that'scalling me to do something, and
regardless of cultural norms,I'm going to push past.
Like tell me a little bit aboutyour thought process to begin
(18:54):
this expansion.
SPEAKER_00 (18:55):
Truly, right?
So I was in, I was working forHertz from 2017 till just after
COVID, right?
Just after 2020 when I left.
And I knew in that last year asI was um director of service in
technology.
Um I knew at that point that I2020, I finished up working for
Hertz because of COVID.
(19:15):
But I knew for I'd known for awhile that I needed and wanted a
shift.
I was just about to approach my50th birthday in 2020, April
2020, and I needed a shiftbecause something was calling me
to do something different withmy life.
I'd I'd always been intechnology, always strived or
strove to be the leader, towalk, to climb the corporate
(19:38):
ladder.
And that that was always enough.
And I think age and experience,and I'm gonna touch on it, you
know, meeting women like you onmy journey showed showed me that
there was more.
I I could do more, my potentialwas more.
So I'd spent the next few years.
And and sometimes, you know, youyou have to accept it.
(20:00):
The calling comes and you haveto accept it.
And it was really about how canI use my skills to support other
women.
Because I'd always get thequestions, Mandy, how have you
climbed the corporate ladder?
How have you done this?
As a black woman in the UK, howare you working for a global
organization at that level?
Um, you know, looking how youdo, dressing how you do,
da-da-da-da-da, all the things.
(20:21):
Yes, and it's not that my lifeis trivial, Mandy, not trivial.
Maybe so, but it's not that mylife was perfect, but maybe from
the outside it looked as ifthings were were going well for
me.
So I I just had to answer thecalling and I jumped around from
a couple of roles because I wasI was it was taking up too much
(20:43):
of my time, too much of my life,Chandra.
Because at just gone 50, youstart to question, okay, time is
shifting here.
Uh, and I need to start to focuson my goals, my dreams, my
passions.
Um, which is why then I Istarted started training.
I I I became a qualified ICFcoach and I was coaching women
(21:05):
around.
ICF coach, what's that?
Interna, the InternationalAccredited Um Federal Coaching
Association.
So it's it's a qualificationaround coaching.
So I was I was qualified as acareer coach.
So I started helping women climbthe corporate ladder.
I knew how to do it, so let'shelp women do that.
Um, and then in the last twoyears, I've stepped into the
(21:28):
personal styling space because Ilove clothes, right?
I love clothes, I love to dressup, and and you know, it just
felt really good to me.
So I've qualified as a stylist,and for me, that is where things
really light up.
Yes, I still have a corporatejob, and I will always be
grateful to my corporate job,right?
Because it helps us do things,helps us live the life we want
(21:49):
to live.
But yeah, that that's kind ofthe journey that's taken me to
this expansion.
SPEAKER_01 (21:54):
Let's start with corporate stylists, because I
don't think I've ever had acorporate stylist on the
podcast.
I don't even think I really knowwhat that is.
Okay.
Um, I I would say that I'vealways been such a rule breaker
when it comes to any definedstyling norms.
Yeah.
Um, somebody asked me recently,we were going somewhere, it was
(22:16):
a business event, and uh myfriend says, Well, you know, uh,
is it business or what what'sthe attire?
And I said, I'm gonna probablybe business funky.
And she's like, Okay, businessfunky.
What's that?
Not sure what that means.
And when I showed up, when Ishowed up, she was like, Okay,
I'm clear.
I'm clear now.
SPEAKER_00 (22:36):
Get it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I completely get it, right?
But but as a personal stylist, Iwork with midlife professional
women, right?
And that for me, because that'swho I am, right?
That's what I understand.
And when we talk personal style,it is exactly that.
And it's what you just talkedabout, because it's style that
works for you, for yourlifestyle, your preferences,
(22:59):
your body shape, and where youwant to go.
I I work with women in a realmthat really couples mindset and
style, because that's where itstarts in the head, right?
SPEAKER_01 (23:11):
It's okay, you're gonna have to unpack that.
Mindset and style.
Like tell me what those two, whythose two things go together.
SPEAKER_00 (23:22):
Because I know and it's so important.
So I was at a legal um BlackHistory Month event two days
ago, and I had this conversationwith these women over and over
again because they didn't getit, right?
And I said to them, when youlook in the mirror, what do you
see?
And if you are honest withyourself about that conversation
and that question, there willnine times out of ten be
(23:46):
something that you don't like oryou see as negative, or
something that you want to coverup, right?
I think for all of us, that'swhat that's the starting place.
But until you can see yourselfclearly and authentically, and
as I love myself and what I seein the mirror, you can never
dress that woman how shedeserves to be dressed, right?
SPEAKER_01 (24:09):
Because in the mindset work that's you decouple
the person from the image thatthey reflect.
That's right.
Rather, rather actually give mea couple of things.
SPEAKER_02 (24:20):
I connect you.
SPEAKER_01 (24:21):
You connected the two.
You've said when you look in themirror and you see that image,
what does that image want orrequire?
SPEAKER_00 (24:29):
What does that image want, need, require?
And more importantly, what arethe limiting beliefs that you
are working with that we need tounpick?
SPEAKER_02 (24:39):
Wow, right?
SPEAKER_00 (24:40):
The voices in your head that tell you, I can't wear
that spurt, I can't wear thatloud lipstick even because of X.
I can't buy that designer bag ifthat if you so wish, because of
Y.
Money issues, mindset.
It's a mindfield of things thatwe deal with.
But what I want to do with me onthat.
SPEAKER_01 (25:01):
I'm gonna be your client for a second, okay?
SPEAKER_02 (25:03):
Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:03):
Go for it.
Tell me what so I'm we're we'refull in now.
Me and all of our friends thatare watching, right?
Okay, let's do it.
Show us what this coaching lookslike mindset and and and image
and all the things.
SPEAKER_00 (25:16):
Okay, okay.
So, you know, I I establishedthat relationship with my
clients, right?
And it's a very truthful andtrusting relationship.
So my question to you, Chantra,would be you know, in the
morning, what do you see, right?
What do you see?
And what would you say to me atyour not when you're all dressed
up, but when you are just goneout of bed, right?
(25:37):
You you at your most natural.
Are you confident?
Do you feel confident?
Do you walk into every roomthinking I'm amazing?
Or is there a voice in your headthat tells you something
different?
SPEAKER_01 (25:49):
Wow.
So when I wake up and I look atmy first image in the mirror
while I'm grooming, I see I seea free spirit.
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
A free spirit.
A free spirit.
SPEAKER_01 (26:08):
I do.
I see I see possibility.
SPEAKER_00 (26:14):
Amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (26:16):
I see responsibility.
I see excitement, lovely.
Yeah, those are the things thatI see.
SPEAKER_00 (26:32):
So responsibility, possibility, and excitement.
That's beautiful, but let metell you, that is not the
response that I get from 80% ofthe women that I work with.
Right?
Yeah, but for me, I suppose foryou, that how does that start to
extrapolate?
(26:52):
It becomes okay, when we sayresponsibility, does that
become, well, Mandy, I don'thave time to go shopping, right?
I've got to pick the kids up,I've got to do this, I've got a
really busy job, I don't havetime for it, right?
Does it become that?
And when we say extrapolity, andI tell you what it becomes, I'm
gonna tell you what it becomes.
SPEAKER_01 (27:10):
It becomes even though I look at her and she
might feel a little bit tired, Ifeel that someone's relying on
me to help me anyway.
And in fact, I had a walk andtalk with a good girlfriend.
She's uh she's a medicalphysician yesterday, where you
(27:33):
know, we were talking about youknow, going through a lot of
things and and um and justgiving yourself the space to
connect with your body um and toto listen to your body and to
settle.
And in that talk, it literallytransformed what my my Saturday
would look like, quite frankly,because I chose to listen to my
(27:56):
body during the talk.
I wasn't going to.
But the point was I feel as aresponsible person, whether it's
whether it's holding space forthe women who are encouraged by
Proven That Perfect podcast,whether it's being responsible
(28:19):
for the people that I'mentrusted to touch their lives
and hence their families' livesin my career, whether it's the
babies that I brought into thisworld and wanting them to know
that there's nothing that theywill go through that I will not
want to absolutely be a part ofand cheer them on all the
(28:41):
things, right?
SPEAKER_00 (28:42):
That's amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (28:43):
And so I I think, you know, as I listen to those
words and you play that back tome, the responsibility one is
the one that can be a good, coolthing for me, but it's also the
one that can tell myself lieswhen I look in the mirror.
And instead of acknowledgingthat you've gone hard the last
couple days or you've gone hardthe last week and you need to
(29:07):
rest, that responsibility piecemakes me think, get in the
saddle, you can do this, boo.
SPEAKER_00 (29:13):
Gotta get up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think, and you, you know,you know, you're an intelligent
woman, Toronto, right?
You've you've you've you've I'msure you've experienced these
things in in terms of themindset and limiting beliefs as
you've gone and spoken to peoplein your podcast, right?
Our mind plays tricks on us, thevoices play tricks on us, and
until you start to unpick someof that, you know, that woman
(29:35):
who's hit, I don't know, who'shit 40, she's got two, she's got
two children under five, right?
Feels that responsibility isweighing her down and she
doesn't have time, energy, ormoney to look after herself and
get dressed every day.
That's the woman I'm trying toencourage and support.
Um, so we deal with the mindset.
And then I take that from oncewe start to work on some of
(29:58):
that, what is the what's theambition around your style?
Because I'm I'm a believer thatthe big dreams and goals that
you have, you have to dress upand show up for those dreams and
goals.
SPEAKER_01 (30:13):
Talk about it, right?
And that is mama, that is asouthern woman script, full
stuff, right?
Like show up like you want to bein first class or invite.
There you go.
There you go.
Your budget says you weigh inthe back.
If you show up like you're firstclass, if somebody gets bumped
up, it's probably you.
It's gonna be you.
(30:33):
Show up exactly that like youwant you want the top office,
right?
You might start off as whatever,but yeah, show up like you where
you're going.
SPEAKER_00 (30:43):
Yeah, it's it's and it's really important.
And that it's that it's thatconnection to your big dreams,
you know, to who she wants to beand who she's becoming, that we
are gonna just make that styleconnection and try and
understand then how does sheneed to dress?
How does she want to show upevery day?
What are the routines in herlife that she needs to establish
(31:04):
to make that work for her everyday?
And let me just say, this is notabout spending money.
Yeah, this is not about designeritems.
This is about acknowledging thatyou have more that you want to
do with your life, and there arethings you might need to shift
to help you on that journey.
SPEAKER_01 (31:23):
I love that.
You know, I I think uh for allof the great style that you see
um walking around the highschool.
SPEAKER_00 (31:32):
There's loads of it, right?
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
Right.
Um, I do think that's anothertrait that I just remember
picking up on when I was thereat a young age, which was I did
not find the women brandishingevery single Single brand of
anything.
SPEAKER_02 (31:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:49):
It was much more understated, even though it
might have been the great brandin the in in that part of the
world, it was a more classicunderstatement.
Like that you were wearing theVB top.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:06):
But not everyone has to know, right?
Exactly right.
SPEAKER_02 (32:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:09):
You know, but I also think as well, you know, that
there's so many nuances tostyle, so many nuances to so
many conversations, right?
Because, you know, I'm not goingto encourage women who work with
me to go shopping until weunderstand those things we've
just talked about, until weunderstand your body shape, uh,
what you would like to reflect,right?
(32:29):
Because your proportions, thehow the dress skims, how the
jacket fits you.
It's no point going to Instagramor any of the social media
platforms and downloading thelist from the influencer.
That does not make any sense.
Because what looks good on that,you know, six-foot beautiful, uh
tall model is not going to lookthe same on your body.
(32:50):
Oh my God.
SPEAKER_01 (32:51):
So what you said right there, I think somebody
needed to hear.
SPEAKER_00 (32:55):
Truly.
We all need to hear it.
SPEAKER_01 (32:57):
Girl, look, how many of us start with the Pinterest
board to style whatever thingyou're going to do without real
grounding on how you probablylook very different.
SPEAKER_00 (33:10):
Very different.
SPEAKER_01 (33:11):
Actually, I think this might be an exercise for
anybody listening to us.
An exercise for anyone listeningto us, go to Pinterest, go to
your Pinterest board, go toInstagram, go to your favorite
Instagram accounts, the onesthat you go to for inspiration
to dress for anything.
Yeah.
The test, the the little testproject that I'd like to put out
(33:32):
there, do an honest assessment.
I'm gonna do it too.
Do an honest assessment ofcompare who I am, me, when I
look in the mirror, looking inthe mirror, to who I have
tagged.
That's right, and who I amfollowing, and ask myself in
(33:54):
with a short of a God miracle.
Yeah, I shall not be her.
SPEAKER_00 (34:03):
Yeah, you look nothing like her, but yet we
will buy the jeans, the top, thedress, the boots that she is
recommending when it doesnothing for your body shape,
nothing, and we get it home,right?
We spend the money, a lot ofthat stuff doesn't go back to
the shop, and so the cyclecontinues.
SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
You're saying, Mandy, honestly, be how do you
design a life where you are yourown influencer?
SPEAKER_00 (34:32):
Oh, I love that.
I'm taking that, I'm takingthat.
You're welcome.
No, that's beautiful, butexactly that.
You're your job, y'all.
SPEAKER_01 (34:40):
That's what I do, y'all.
I take the complex and I swoopit's simple.
They call me the laser shoot,the laser shot.
I'm the laser shot.
SPEAKER_00 (34:49):
Yeah, no, you are, and that and it's exactly that
because yeah, you need toinfluence yourself with you know
your your perspective on life,your perspective about your
style, your body shade, whatyou're doing every day, and no
one else.
That's how you become and have astyle that you love and will
work for you.
SPEAKER_01 (35:09):
I love it.
And you have a you that youlove.
SPEAKER_00 (35:13):
When you look in the mirror, oh my god, how how more
beautiful can that be?
That that image will resonate soclosely with that vision that
you started with.
SPEAKER_01 (35:23):
Mandy, that is such worthy work that you're that
you're building.
SPEAKER_00 (35:29):
Do you see yourself expanding into this full time
and just letting it take youwherever it takes you and how oh
my gosh, Chantra, don't get mestarted on the dreams and the
goals that I have right now.
I mean, 25 2025 was great forme.
Uh it really was.
Lots of great clients.
I ran an event in the June inJuly with so many midlife women
(35:53):
there just experiencing, youknow, you know, um,
conversation, network, helpingthem to see themselves and value
themselves more.
Um, but I do see it expandinginto hopefully a full-time gig,
right?
Um, and me working in 2026 withcorporates around their personal
branding for their mid, youknow, their mid-managers, their
(36:15):
executives, um, and just reallyhelping people see style as a
tool, right?
We've we build the skill set, webuild the CV, you know, we go to
our doctors, we have thedentist.
Your style has to play a part inthe life and career that you're
building.
SPEAKER_01 (36:34):
I love that.
I think that is so incredible.
It's reminiscent to um a conceptthat was really, really popular.
I talked about it on the podcastbefore, um, probably late to
late, late, probably early2000s-ish time frame, the pie
model, right?
Performance, image, andexposure.
SPEAKER_00 (36:54):
There you go.
SPEAKER_01 (36:54):
And um, you know, so many of us um initially spent so
much time focused on theperformance portion of the pie.
Yeah, thinking that if I couldjust work harder, run faster,
fit further, all the things, Iwould see that future that I
expect.
But too few people actuallyfully understood and appreciated
(37:19):
the image portion.
And I love that you are takingit beyond put on a suit.
SPEAKER_00 (37:27):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (37:28):
Because half people show up to the meeting in a suit
and they still shrink, theystill shrink.
SPEAKER_00 (37:36):
Exactly.
Because the nuance, the nuancehere, Chantra, and this is why I
chose you know, these women, isthe midlife women.
The changes that we are goingthrough are so unique to our
stage of life, but we still havebig dreams and goals.
So, yeah, 20 years ago, thatsuit might have got you through
the door.
But as you've as you've touchedon, right, our confidence drops.
(38:00):
Yeah.
We see others who are youngerthan us as as comparison and as
our competitors.
So we need to nurture ourselvesdifferently at this stage of
life.
And a lot of the time it comesdown to, again, what we see in
the mirror that's going to helpus to continue to thrive.
SPEAKER_01 (38:17):
So why uh so I would imagine part of our part of your
work is unpacking the desire tocompare with the younger women
because honestly, I hope thatthat's never something that that
is said about me, because that'snot that's not who I choose to
(38:41):
to be.
I am hopeful that I continue tosee myself in such a way that I
am unique and distinct.
SPEAKER_00 (38:51):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (38:52):
And I am growing with the seasonal shifts in my
life.
Um because I think that it's thewhether whether you're starting
your career and you're comparingyourself to your peers, whether
you're mid-career and you'recomparing yourself to to your
peers who are younger, I the Ithink the one thing that has
(39:16):
limited the people that weremaybe running the race with me,
the people that I've seen thatthat became Carnage on the side
of the road were the ones thatwere so busy looking left and
right that they missed their ownpath.
SPEAKER_00 (39:28):
Oh my god, that's so good.
Yeah, that's so good and sotrue.
And I love that, you know,you're evolving with your own
seasonal shifts.
I love that because everyone hasto go through the seasons,
right?
But it's how you continue tolove on those branches, feed and
water that tree, and make surethat you are flourishing and
(39:51):
thriving at every season.
Um, and for me, that's theimportant work.
It's not comparison, however,you you you're right, we all
want to see ourselves as unique,right?
And that's maybe what we'resaying to ourselves, but truly,
there's comparison going on, andwe just need to be honest with
ourselves, and that will help uson the journey as we evolve.
You're saying be brutally honestwith yourself, be honest, we
(40:13):
have to be honest, and I thinkthat's why I start the process
with the mindset stuff, becausethat's where it starts.
There's no point me saying,let's go shopping, let's go
shopping, let's buy some stuff,let's buy some that that's
money, let's buy that viraljacket, right?
And let's all walk around in inbrown suede, and then you get
that home and you look in themirror and you're like, I still
(40:36):
hate what I see.
Because we've not done thegroundwork.
SPEAKER_01 (40:40):
I love it.
That's so good.
Okay, so now I gotta be a bit umAmerican, and perhaps you're
gonna say a little trivial, butI need to understand what's the
vibe around Megan, Duchess ofYork.
Like, what are we saying on thestreets there?
What's the vibe?
Because I think she showed up atParis Fashion Show slaying and
(41:04):
saying, catch my drift, y'all.
Just catch catch my dust.
SPEAKER_00 (41:09):
Yeah, hey, look, I mean, she always looks good.
She does.
I she does, she does, she alwayslooks good, she's a beautiful
woman, right?
Um, yeah, I don't think you try.
SPEAKER_01 (41:19):
Why don't why are well okay?
So I'm just gonna I'm just gonnago there.
I'm just gonna go there.
What's the deal?
Why does it feel like there's somuch hate for her?
That's what I was gonna say.
SPEAKER_00 (41:29):
That's what I was gonna say.
You know, she looks beautiful,you know.
We great, we know that.
Um, but yeah, I I think she sheshe was never gonna win over
here for for various reasons.
SPEAKER_01 (41:40):
Okay, I need to know that.
Why?
SPEAKER_00 (41:42):
Well, it's the establishment, right?
The establishment will alwaysfound it difficult to accept,
and I think there is a portionof of the UK that is obviously
establishment, they love theestablishment, so they were
always gonna take that stance,but I think where it's
difficult.
Harry was always seen as the theyoung upstart.
(42:04):
I think, you know, people lovethe boys, they do.
I was a great Diana fan, so youknow, what can I say?
Um I think she was just Yeah, Iloved her.
I think Megan was always gonnabe up against it, right?
And then, you know, when we sawhow they quickly shifted in
terms of right, we're out ofhere, we're going back to the
States.
(42:25):
That wasn't take.
I think if they'd have stuck itout for a few years at least,
that would have served them verywell in terms of the in terms of
the British public.
So yeah, I think that didn'tquite work out.
But I hope they continue, right?
I hope they continue to thriveas a couple because they've been
through a lot, right?
Um, but you know what?
While we just talk on celebrity,you know what I did watch
recently is the VictoriaBeckham.
SPEAKER_01 (42:46):
Yes.
Oh I love her.
I so do I.
But honestly, in that littleexercise that I gave you, she's
probably she's one of the onesthat I would have had to look at
because I it's not her, but it'sher fashion brand.
I love like if there was ifsomebody said, Okay, you got a
(43:07):
budget and you cannot ever goacross the line, you have to
pick just one brand, and that'sthe only closet you can walk
into every single day.
Wow, would it be that one?
Would have been my pick.
She would have been wow, yeah.
Wow, because she brings shebrings the funk and the edge,
which I love, and but she alsobrings a bit of the
(43:29):
sophistication, the sophisticsophistication, just a little
bit more.
I was gonna say class, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (43:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I get it, right?
And the the the I love, yeah, Ilove the style and the fashion
that she produces.
I love that.
But you know what I loved aboutthat story?
What is is her story is that sheis the pivot, yeah, is the
pivot.
That's what got me, and it's howshe did it because it resonates
so much with my messages.
SPEAKER_01 (43:57):
But hang on, hang on though.
If we're gonna go there, we'regonna go there.
So many people talk about pivot,yes, but not enough people tell
the truth about pivot.
Yes, yes, but let me tell, letme let me just break make that
plain what I'm trying to say.
Yeah, I've heard pivot as abook, as a concept, as a speech.
(44:19):
I've heard it glamorized overand over and over again.
People even ask me about youknow your pivot, blah blah blah.
What people don't say, I havesaid, because I call it proven
not perfect, but what peopledon't say is the pivot doesn't
come in pretty.
The pivot usually comes instuck, dead, yes, yes, not
(44:45):
working, not flying, painful,painful pivot.
You keep going.
So there's this notion that youcan go from flying high to I
think I'm gonna pivot.
That's not how that goes.
And anybody that says that isnot telling the truth.
SPEAKER_00 (45:02):
I completely agree with you because just to touch
quickly on my own pivot, right?
I spent a good few years in thatin that 20 to 25 space
questioning whether I was goodenough, questioning whether
people would would um questionmy integrity because I work in
technology, right?
She's a corporate woman.
What's she doing as a stylist?
You know, but I think inVictoria's story, although she's
(45:22):
got all this money, right?
Yes, I think they really leanedinto the fact that she was hurt
so much by how the the the worldsaw her, yes, and they saw her
as this ditzy pop star.
Yes, how can you have a fashionhouse and be seen as that, you
know, compared to all thebiggest in fashion?
(45:44):
That's the bit, and I think shedid it so well.
She had to change how she showedup, right?
She had to change how she walkedinto a room, what she wore, you
know, the lipstick, the makeup,the whole brand.
Yes.
And when you have big dreams andgoals like she had, that's how
you've got to do it.
And it's not easy.
SPEAKER_01 (46:04):
So, first and foremost, she had to acknowledge
that she was not in her bestplace.
Yes.
So that is the part of the pivotstory that too many people want
to see.
I've the mindset piece.
I will stand 10 toes down onthat, right?
Yes.
I have to admit that this is notmy best showing.
(46:26):
I am not in my best spot.
Okay.
So I acknowledge that now.
Am I going to accept it?
Yeah.
Getting on with the getting on,right?
I'm at a bad positioncorporately.
They don't acknowledge myskills, experience, impact, and
they want my light to dim versusshine.
Am I going to stay there?
(46:47):
Hmm.
Or I'm in a bad relationship.
That relationship is nottreating me well, not
understanding who I am and myvalue.
Am I going to stay there in thatrelationship?
I can give multiple otherexamples, but once you realize
where you are, and does it servewhat you see in that mandal
(47:12):
statement that's on therefrigerator?
And when you acknowledge that itdoesn't, yeah, now you get it
real.
And you say, There you go, Ihave a choice right here.
Either I'm going to keep thisand get on with the getting on
and let it literally take mylife, or I'm going to get on
out.
I'm going to I'm going to pivotand I'm going to add another P.
(47:34):
I'm going to pursue.
SPEAKER_00 (47:35):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (47:36):
Pivot and pursue.
SPEAKER_00 (47:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (47:39):
Pivot and pause are pivot and pursue.
That's I believe.
SPEAKER_00 (47:43):
Yeah.
And that's so well articulated,Chantra.
And I think it's it's I told youthat's my gift, girl.
SPEAKER_01 (47:49):
That's my gift.
SPEAKER_00 (47:49):
Your gift, girl.
And I think that's what a lot ofwomen come up against,
especially as they've you know,especially successful women in
certain industries, as we'veseen with Victoria, because
that's how people knew her.
And it would have been so easyfor her to just stay at home,
live with David's money andwhatever.
But it's how do you see yourselfdifferently and go on that
(48:13):
journey to help other people seeit too?
SPEAKER_01 (48:16):
Amen.
Well, I I already was rootingfor her, she's pretty amazing.
I would love to see the see thestory that shows us how the
other spice girls live and donow.
SPEAKER_00 (48:29):
Wouldn't that be good, right?
I mean, yeah, I mean, we kind ofthink we kind of hear snippets,
but I think although Victor andI love, and the thing is as
well, she's shown hervulnerability, right?
Because the story was not asuccess all the way through,
right?
Financially, they've hit hitrock bottom, whatever.
But I think the other spicegirls probably look at her and
think, wow, you have to look atthat story and think, wow,
you've you've done a great jobin in just re-envisioning who
(48:53):
you are and how you show up.
SPEAKER_01 (48:55):
And I think also, I would say it goes back to
something that you said earlieron.
People have a tendency to lookat what they see in the exterior
and to make presumptions aroundwhat another person is going
through.
Yes.
And I think, in particular,right now, whether you're in the
UK, whether you're in the US,whether you're in China, whether
(49:18):
you are in Africa, um, I havethe privilege of having
listeners that are in all thoseplaces around the world.
But here's the thing no matterwhat it is, people can look
externally and see what theysee.
That does not mean that you'reokay.
SPEAKER_00 (49:32):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (49:34):
Be honest with you.
Be honest with me.
Do that make us wow.
Mandy, honestly, this is sogood.
When if if somebody wants totalk to you um about their
style, about their image, theywant to do some of this work,
want to unpack some of thesethings, how can they find you?
SPEAKER_00 (49:54):
That would be amazing.
Um, so I'm on Instagram at MandyTucker Stylist.
You can connect me with methere.
Um, I'm also on um LinkedIn aswell.
Um, and my website is MandyTucker Personal Stylist.
So you'll find all the detailsthere.
And I'd love to talk to some ofour US counterparts.
At the event I was at two daysago, I was talking to a lady in
(50:15):
Toronto and she said, I amjumping on your virtual
services.
So I do all of my servicesonline as well as in person.
So yeah, I'd love to speak tosome of your listeners.
SPEAKER_01 (50:25):
I love that.
Well, Mandy, I um I couldn't bemore proud of you.
Um I picked you up on thejourney, girl.
Oh, it's so funny.
So good to talk to you.
It's a compliment that I thoughtit was 20 years longer.
SPEAKER_00 (50:41):
So good to talk to you.
And all I would say to yourlisteners is keep shining right
and keep believing in yourselvesthat whatever dreams you have
can be fulfilled.
It's just, yeah, just just justlook at your journey as valuable
enough and just keep moving,keep moving forward.
SPEAKER_01 (50:55):
Amen.
We are enough.
We are feeling and wonderfullymade.
SPEAKER_00 (51:00):
Made.
Oh, I mean to that.
SPEAKER_01 (51:02):
And not the tail.
SPEAKER_00 (51:05):
I love that.
I love it.
And we thank you so much,Chantra, to for inviting me on.
It's amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (51:10):
You're welcome.
Thank you.
Proven that perfect.
I am so excited that you arehere today.
You are about to enjoy awonderful trip around the world,
cross the pond, cross theAtlantic, smack dad landing into
the United Kingdom, GreatBritain, where we're gonna talk
to an executive of many years,Mandy Tucker, who is killing the
(02:08):
game in technology, but she'salso killing the game and
expanding her offers to do greatthings for women in career.
And you know that that's all Ineed to make sure that I tap
into that energy, those ideas,and bring them to you because
that's what we do.
So stick around, enjoy thisconversation with Mandy Tucker.
(02:33):
And just to tease you a littlebit, if you enjoy this
conversation and you want more,you want focused one-on-one time
with Mandy and I, stick around.
There's a big announcementcoming soon.
Enjoy Proven Not Perfect, myconversation with Mandy Tucker.
Hi Mandy, how are you across thepond?
SPEAKER_00 (02:56):
Hi, Chantra.
I'm really, really good.
Good afternoon, right?
To you.
It's coming into my evening, butgood afternoon.
SPEAKER_01 (03:02):
Good afternoon.
Oh my God.
So I think everybody's gonnalove this conversation because
of your accent alone.
Very proper.
Catch me up.
Tell me what's going on acrossthe pond.
I specifically wanna understanda little bit about the tone and
tenure right now.
Um, over in the great UK, GreatBritain.
Um, I'd love to hear the toneand tenure of just kind of what
(03:25):
life is like there right now.
SPEAKER_00 (03:28):
Life is, I don't want to say hard because there
are plenty of people across thisworld that are having life a lot
harder than us, right?
But definitely the economy isbiting, it's expensive.
People want experience and amore kind of luxurious life, but
I think they're finding just weare just working really, really
(03:48):
hard to keep up with theday-to-day, right?
And I think sometimes thatbecomes a bit of a struggle.
Um, just like the US, there area lot of uh people, especially
women, who are tapping intotheir passions, creating
businesses and trying to elevatetheir lives, which is amazing.
But yeah, it's it's it's yeah,we're doing what we need to do
over here to just keep going,right?
(04:10):
Keep going and and you know,just make make good lives for
ourselves and our families.
SPEAKER_01 (04:14):
You talk about women in career right now and some of
the choices that folks aremaking.
And I know that you yourselfhave made a bit of a pivot as
well, or an expansion.
I don't want to call it a pivotin your call and expansion, and
I think that's a beautiful termthat I've certainly been
(04:35):
exploring lately as well,because what it says is it
doesn't have to be either thisor that.
It can yes and it's oh my gosh,exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (04:47):
Yeah, exactly.
And I think that's the beautifulthing about being and feeling
empowered to do something morewith your life, right?
And not to feel restricted.
Because I think as we comethrough our careers, as we come
through our lives and grow upinto midlife, you know, where
where I'm at, it's like we'refor so long, we've kind of been
(05:07):
in these boxes that says youhave to be one thing.
You can only do this and excelin that space.
But I think the journey that I'mon, and so many women I talk to
are on is that no, we canexpand.
We have so many skills andexperiences to bring to the
table, and that is where ourpower really lies.
And I think that's been part ofmy own expansion over these last
(05:29):
few years.
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
Oh boy, I love that.
So I'm gonna just say when Ifirst experienced women in
career in London, it was in themid-90s.
Um, I had the privilege of doinga succumbment there with a
British firm in finance.
(05:50):
And it was a wonderful,wonderful experience for me.
Met some beautiful people, wishthat it was a time where social
media was prevalent because Iknow I would have maintained
contact with a lot of greatpeople that I quite frankly I
lost contact with.
Um, that doesn't mean we won'tbump into each other again, but
um, you know, that part's alittle, a little sad.
(06:13):
But I I wanted to say, you know,I can remember on my quiet
Saturdays.
I lived, uh, you know, you knowyou were privileged in in this
opportunity when your housing,the company sponsored, was in
South Kensington.
Oh my!
SPEAKER_00 (06:30):
Uh-oh.
Yes, you were privileged.
That was a good job.
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
I still remember it was number two Collingham
Gardens, is where I lived.
SPEAKER_00 (06:40):
That was just the name alone.
SPEAKER_01 (06:42):
That was the flat, right?
And I was right around from theRoyal Albert.
Um, and I tell you, I canremember, you know, on my quiet
Saturdays, kind of walkingaround as a young American woman
um beginning her career infinance and seeing these women
(07:04):
that I would describe theBritish women that I met,
whether it was on the streetwhen I was kind of walking
around, or whether it was in umin the office um at uh at East
Allgate.
It was they were a reserved yetforceful.
(07:29):
They were a bit quiet in theirtone, but they were very loud,
they were um very gracious, butthey were very clear, and I can
remember picking up on thosesignals that really impressed
(07:52):
me, really called me, wherewhere this this femininity could
possess all of thosejuxtapositions just as a
cultural nuance.
Does any of that resonate foryou?
Have I tapped into somethingthat you grew up understanding,
appreciating, or maybe youdidn't see it that way?
SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
I didn't I didn't necessarily see it that way,
right?
And I don't think growing up, asin, you know, in my early 20s
and even 30s, I I reallyappreciated the nuances of what
was around me in my workplace.
It was more around climbing thecorporate ladder, but I I kind
of see it a little bitdifferently, right?
Because I were I rememberworking with you, Chantra,
really clearly, because you werethe lady with the American
(08:37):
accent that lit up every room,right?
Oh no, but it's true with yourknowledge, your experience, your
beauty, your elegance, yourstyle.
Um, and I don't thinknecessarily that as women in the
UK, we embrace that enough.
Yes, there's a quiet elegancethere, there's a quiet
(09:00):
something, but a lot of it sitsbelow the surface because we're
not quite ready or feelingcomfortable with really
expressing ourselves in thatway, in that I'm owning this
room way.
Um, and I think that's holds usback somewhat.
SPEAKER_01 (09:16):
So I wonder, it's it's so I think it's so
beautiful to sharecross-cultural experiences and
viewpoints because I wonder ifme landing in London with such
an American experience and yougrowing in London with such a
British experience, that sameessence can be seen through two
(09:40):
different lenses where maybe Iwas happy to hear some people be
quiet a little bit.
SPEAKER_00 (09:45):
And as you as you were talking, it's exactly that.
It's all about perspective.
Yeah, it really is all aboutperspective and where you're
coming from and therefore howyou experience that moment.
SPEAKER_02 (09:56):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (09:56):
And not one of them is wrong, nope and not one of
them is more right, it's justdifferent.
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
So, how would you say when you think about women
in career and piercing those,those um, those goals, those
goals, those objectives in yourwalk, in your journey?
Um, how would you describe thatum, you know, as a British woman
(10:21):
in in that experience?
Um and how would you contrastthat to some of what you see in
your counterparts who may bebringing in alter other cultural
nuances?
SPEAKER_00 (10:32):
Yeah.
And it's funny, I see yourvision board behind you, right?
Um I'm a big I'm a big goalsetter, vision board person, you
know, let's put it out there,let's get it done.
SPEAKER_01 (10:43):
Oh, wait, hang on, hang on.
We gotta we gotta pin that onefor a second because I've been
having a very real relationshipwith this conversation around
goals.
And the relationship has shiftedfrom have your goals written
down and focused on followed totap into what you see, your
(11:08):
vision, and bring that vision tolife because it's what's calling
you.
Um a little bit different,nuanced shift for me in the way
I think about it.
So I before you go on, I justneed to know do you think about
goals in the traditional way ofby the end of the year, I want
to do these 10 things, or do youspend time really sort of
(11:30):
tapping into what is I do both.
SPEAKER_00 (11:33):
I do both.
And for me, there is such aconnection that brings the whole
vision to life.
Because yeah, I will spend timetapping into, well, that woman
that I want to become, how doesshe walk?
How does she talk?
Where does she spend time andwho does she spend time with,
right?
So as a stylist, we've said I'veexpanded into this area of work.
I'm a personal stylist formidlife professional women.
(11:56):
Women, how does a stylist thatworks with women like that, how
would she experience life?
And I think once I have a clearvision of her, it helps me then
execute on the one, two, threeof the goals, right?
And at the beginning of theyear, yeah, I'll at the
beginning of the year, I willwrite those goals down.
My family knows those goals willbe on that fridge, right?
And I will be ticking them off,hopefully, God willing, as we
(12:18):
move through the year.
But the vision needs to bereally clear, otherwise, it's
easy to get distracted if you donot have that safe haven in
terms of what the vision reallylooks like and feels like for
you.
SPEAKER_01 (12:30):
So you keep the two together.
You keep vision and then yougive written statements.
And that's right.
SPEAKER_00 (12:41):
Yeah, I'm sure you do, right?
Because I think it's about theemotion, the feeling, you know,
and how do you know you'rethere?
Once you've ticked off thosegoals, it's great saying yes, I
I ran an event this year or Idid this conference.
Did it actually feel the way youwanted it to?
SPEAKER_01 (12:56):
Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
I think is really important to just check back in
with that vision piece.
SPEAKER_01 (13:02):
Okay, back to the regularly scheduled program.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:05):
So I'm gonna try and remember the question.
SPEAKER_01 (13:09):
Um, we were walking down the journey of just women
in career um and that culturalexperience that you have from a
British viewpoint versus perhapsanother countercultural.
SPEAKER_00 (13:25):
Yeah, I think from a career's perspective, we're very
much in Britain, in the UK, onthat path of we want to climb
the corporate ladder, right?
Getting into the C-suite,become, you know, being middle
management, becoming CEO, all ofthat.
On a lot of women's minds,that's the aspiration, that's
the goal.
But I think it's the same inAmerica, child.
(13:47):
That's the same thing.
It is the same in America, but Ithink the American women have
embraced more of um a wholenessabout themselves, right?
That I can be anyone I want tobe.
So, yes, I can climb thecorporate ladder, but if I want
to own a business, I can do thattoo, at the best of my ability.
You know, I can be anyone.
(14:07):
And I think no one route.
That's right.
No one rope, right?
Route, route.
And if you talk to you UK women,they will always say, Oh my
gosh, American women know how todo things and to do it right.
You will always have, you know,the best visuals, the best
voice, the best um quote willcome out, the best um, you know,
(14:29):
um outfit.
The Americans from the UK arealways seen as doing it just
that bit better.
But I do see that us as UK womenare catching up, we're doing our
thing, we're becoming morevisible, and I think that's
great, a great place to be.
SPEAKER_01 (14:46):
You know, I'm gonna say um one of the other things
that I do remember is I felt inthe in the mid-90s uh being a
sponsored um apprentice to theUK director of the finance firm
that I was a part of, beingbeing the only um young black
(15:08):
woman um sort of in my sphere,and it was very male dominated
from a professional standpoint.
Say said that wrong.
From a ranking standpoint, itfelt very male-dominated.
There were very professionalwomen, but they seemed to all
(15:29):
have more of a secretarial role.
And that honestly wasn't longago.
This was, you know, this was1995, right?
I mean, technically speaking,that's not long ago, right?
SPEAKER_00 (15:40):
It's not long ago.
It's not, it's not.
SPEAKER_01 (15:42):
So when you think about, you know, just even at
that time, the the difference,the the juxtaposition of me,
this young black woman sponsoredby the New York office, by the
managing executive to go overand apprentice the commercial
director for all of the world ofthe firm's commercial director.
(16:05):
And my first time living andworking out of the United
States, um, and just having anincredible experience to pick up
on the energy and the thingsthat that I I didn't, I was too
young to really quiteunderstand, right?
Um I know that there was therewere looks about the office.
(16:32):
I know that there were maybesome laughter, and not in a
cruel way, but more in that Ifelt the women were always sort
of in it, we call itside-eyeing, right?
Where you're kind of likesomebody's kind of looking at
you like, what is she doing?
Because I didn't even know thenorms that I was breaking.
I didn't even understand thenorms that I was breaking.
(16:56):
And it's only in thisconversation with you that I
feel like I'm unpacking somethings that that were literally
in there that I haven't talkedto in since ever.
Because you know, you just go,go, go.
SPEAKER_00 (17:09):
Man, that's yeah, yeah, yeah.
I can I can imagine thereception that you received, and
not that it necessarilydepending on the organization,
that it would have been a badreception, but it would have
been met probably with some whois she?
Who is she?
Yeah, a little bit of you know,magnetism around that.
How do we approach her?
(17:29):
How do we, you know, accept herinto this this sphere and and
and still maintain our own, youknow, you know, you want to
still maintain your ownintegrity and kudos, right?
You don't want to be swamped,but it's it's it's because I
think you know, American women,some, not all, right?
And I don't want to generalizebecause there are many
beautiful, um, brilliant,brilliant British women that are
(17:54):
doing great things.
One of them.
Oh, bless you, bless you, blessyou.
But I think there's always beenthat kind of viewpoint of
American women that you're doingthings in a great way.
And how can we emulate and andreally celebrate what you do?
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
Wow.
Okay, so now let's double-clickon here you are in this
professional corporate um USfirm um working in in uh the UK.
Um, and now you are expandinginto bigger leadership
responsibilities, but you'realso expanding your creativity
(18:31):
and your ideas.
I can't imagine it was the normfor you to step out and
expanding this way.
So, you know, is that was someof that just something you
couldn't deny?
There's there's something that'scalling me to do something, and
regardless of cultural norms,I'm going to push past.
Like tell me a little bit aboutyour thought process to begin
(18:54):
this expansion.
SPEAKER_00 (18:55):
Truly, right?
So I was in, I was working forHertz from 2017 till just after
COVID, right?
Just after 2020 when I left.
And I knew in that last year asI was um director of service in
technology.
Um I knew at that point that I2020, I finished up working for
Hertz because of COVID.
(19:15):
But I knew for I'd known for awhile that I needed and wanted a
shift.
I was just about to approach my50th birthday in 2020, April
2020, and I needed a shiftbecause something was calling me
to do something different withmy life.
I'd I'd always been intechnology, always strived or
strove to be the leader, towalk, to climb the corporate
(19:38):
ladder.
And that that was always enough.
And I think age and experience,and I'm gonna touch on it, you
know, meeting women like you onmy journey showed showed me that
there was more.
I I could do more, my potentialwas more.
So I'd spent the next few years.
And and sometimes, you know, youyou have to accept it.
(20:00):
The calling comes and you haveto accept it.
And it was really about how canI use my skills to support other
women.
Because I'd always get thequestions, Mandy, how have you
climbed the corporate ladder?
How have you done this?
As a black woman in the UK, howare you working for a global
organization at that level?
Um, you know, looking how youdo, dressing how you do,
da-da-da-da-da, all the things.
(20:21):
Yes, and it's not that my lifeis trivial, Mandy, not trivial.
Maybe so, but it's not that mylife was perfect, but maybe from
the outside it looked as ifthings were were going well for
me.
So I I just had to answer thecalling and I jumped around from
a couple of roles because I wasI was it was taking up too much
(20:43):
of my time, too much of my life,Chandra.
Because at just gone 50, youstart to question, okay, time is
shifting here.
Uh, and I need to start to focuson my goals, my dreams, my
passions.
Um, which is why then I Istarted started training.
I I I became a qualified ICFcoach and I was coaching women
(21:05):
around.
ICF coach, what's that?
Interna, the InternationalAccredited Um Federal Coaching
Association.
So it's it's a qualificationaround coaching.
So I was I was qualified as acareer coach.
So I started helping women climbthe corporate ladder.
I knew how to do it, so let'shelp women do that.
Um, and then in the last twoyears, I've stepped into the
(21:28):
personal styling space because Ilove clothes, right?
I love clothes, I love to dressup, and and you know, it just
felt really good to me.
So I've qualified as a stylist,and for me, that is where things
really light up.
Yes, I still have a corporatejob, and I will always be
grateful to my corporate job,right?
Because it helps us do things,helps us live the life we want
(21:49):
to live.
But yeah, that that's kind ofthe journey that's taken me to
this expansion.
SPEAKER_01 (21:54):
Let's start with corporate stylists, because I
don't think I've ever had acorporate stylist on the
podcast.
I don't even think I really knowwhat that is.
Okay.
Um, I I would say that I'vealways been such a rule breaker
when it comes to any definedstyling norms.
Yeah.
Um, somebody asked me recently,we were going somewhere, it was
(22:16):
a business event, and uh myfriend says, Well, you know, uh,
is it business or what what'sthe attire?
And I said, I'm gonna probablybe business funky.
And she's like, Okay, businessfunky.
What's that?
Not sure what that means.
And when I showed up, when Ishowed up, she was like, Okay,
I'm clear.
I'm clear now.
SPEAKER_00 (22:36):
Get it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I completely get it, right?
But but as a personal stylist, Iwork with midlife professional
women, right?
And that for me, because that'swho I am, right?
That's what I understand.
And when we talk personal style,it is exactly that.
And it's what you just talkedabout, because it's style that
works for you, for yourlifestyle, your preferences,
(22:59):
your body shape, and where youwant to go.
I I work with women in a realmthat really couples mindset and
style, because that's where itstarts in the head, right?
SPEAKER_01 (23:11):
It's okay, you're gonna have to unpack that.
Mindset and style.
Like tell me what those two, whythose two things go together.
SPEAKER_00 (23:22):
Because I know and it's so important.
So I was at a legal um BlackHistory Month event two days
ago, and I had this conversationwith these women over and over
again because they didn't getit, right?
And I said to them, when youlook in the mirror, what do you
see?
And if you are honest withyourself about that conversation
and that question, there willnine times out of ten be
(23:46):
something that you don't like oryou see as negative, or
something that you want to coverup, right?
I think for all of us, that'swhat that's the starting place.
But until you can see yourselfclearly and authentically, and
as I love myself and what I seein the mirror, you can never
dress that woman how shedeserves to be dressed, right?
SPEAKER_01 (24:09):
Because in the mindset work that's you decouple
the person from the image thatthey reflect.
That's right.
Rather, rather actually give mea couple of things.
SPEAKER_02 (24:20):
I connect you.
SPEAKER_01 (24:21):
You connected the two.
You've said when you look in themirror and you see that image,
what does that image want orrequire?
SPEAKER_00 (24:29):
What does that image want, need, require?
And more importantly, what arethe limiting beliefs that you
are working with that we need tounpick?
SPEAKER_02 (24:39):
Wow, right?
SPEAKER_00 (24:40):
The voices in your head that tell you, I can't wear
that spurt, I can't wear thatloud lipstick even because of X.
I can't buy that designer bag ifthat if you so wish, because of
Y.
Money issues, mindset.
It's a mindfield of things thatwe deal with.
But what I want to do with me onthat.
SPEAKER_01 (25:01):
I'm gonna be your client for a second, okay?
SPEAKER_02 (25:03):
Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:03):
Go for it.
Tell me what so I'm we're we'refull in now.
Me and all of our friends thatare watching, right?
Okay, let's do it.
Show us what this coaching lookslike mindset and and and image
and all the things.
SPEAKER_00 (25:16):
Okay, okay.
So, you know, I I establishedthat relationship with my
clients, right?
And it's a very truthful andtrusting relationship.
So my question to you, Chantra,would be you know, in the
morning, what do you see, right?
What do you see?
And what would you say to me atyour not when you're all dressed
up, but when you are just goneout of bed, right?
(25:37):
You you at your most natural.
Are you confident?
Do you feel confident?
Do you walk into every roomthinking I'm amazing?
Or is there a voice in your headthat tells you something
different?
SPEAKER_01 (25:49):
Wow.
So when I wake up and I look atmy first image in the mirror
while I'm grooming, I see I seea free spirit.
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
A free spirit.
A free spirit.
SPEAKER_01 (26:08):
I do.
I see I see possibility.
SPEAKER_00 (26:14):
Amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (26:16):
I see responsibility.
I see excitement, lovely.
Yeah, those are the things thatI see.
SPEAKER_00 (26:32):
So responsibility, possibility, and excitement.
That's beautiful, but let metell you, that is not the
response that I get from 80% ofthe women that I work with.
Right?
Yeah, but for me, I suppose foryou, that how does that start to
extrapolate?
(26:52):
It becomes okay, when we sayresponsibility, does that
become, well, Mandy, I don'thave time to go shopping, right?
I've got to pick the kids up,I've got to do this, I've got a
really busy job, I don't havetime for it, right?
Does it become that?
And when we say extrapolity, andI tell you what it becomes, I'm
gonna tell you what it becomes.
SPEAKER_01 (27:10):
It becomes even though I look at her and she
might feel a little bit tired, Ifeel that someone's relying on
me to help me anyway.
And in fact, I had a walk andtalk with a good girlfriend.
She's uh she's a medicalphysician yesterday, where you
(27:33):
know, we were talking about youknow, going through a lot of
things and and um and justgiving yourself the space to
connect with your body um and toto listen to your body and to
settle.
And in that talk, it literallytransformed what my my Saturday
would look like, quite frankly,because I chose to listen to my
(27:56):
body during the talk.
I wasn't going to.
But the point was I feel as aresponsible person, whether it's
whether it's holding space forthe women who are encouraged by
Proven That Perfect podcast,whether it's being responsible
(28:19):
for the people that I'mentrusted to touch their lives
and hence their families' livesin my career, whether it's the
babies that I brought into thisworld and wanting them to know
that there's nothing that theywill go through that I will not
want to absolutely be a part ofand cheer them on all the
(28:41):
things, right?
SPEAKER_00 (28:42):
That's amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (28:43):
And so I I think, you know, as I listen to those
words and you play that back tome, the responsibility one is
the one that can be a good, coolthing for me, but it's also the
one that can tell myself lieswhen I look in the mirror.
And instead of acknowledgingthat you've gone hard the last
couple days or you've gone hardthe last week and you need to
(29:07):
rest, that responsibility piecemakes me think, get in the
saddle, you can do this, boo.
SPEAKER_00 (29:13):
Gotta get up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think, and you, you know,you know, you're an intelligent
woman, Toronto, right?
You've you've you've you've I'msure you've experienced these
things in in terms of themindset and limiting beliefs as
you've gone and spoken to peoplein your podcast, right?
Our mind plays tricks on us, thevoices play tricks on us, and
until you start to unpick someof that, you know, that woman
(29:35):
who's hit, I don't know, who'shit 40, she's got two, she's got
two children under five, right?
Feels that responsibility isweighing her down and she
doesn't have time, energy, ormoney to look after herself and
get dressed every day.
That's the woman I'm trying toencourage and support.
Um, so we deal with the mindset.
And then I take that from oncewe start to work on some of
(29:58):
that, what is the what's theambition around your style?
Because I'm I'm a believer thatthe big dreams and goals that
you have, you have to dress upand show up for those dreams and
goals.
SPEAKER_01 (30:13):
Talk about it, right?
And that is mama, that is asouthern woman script, full
stuff, right?
Like show up like you want to bein first class or invite.
There you go.
There you go.
Your budget says you weigh inthe back.
If you show up like you're firstclass, if somebody gets bumped
up, it's probably you.
It's gonna be you.
(30:33):
Show up exactly that like youwant you want the top office,
right?
You might start off as whatever,but yeah, show up like you where
you're going.
SPEAKER_00 (30:43):
Yeah, it's it's and it's really important.
And that it's that it's thatconnection to your big dreams,
you know, to who she wants to beand who she's becoming, that we
are gonna just make that styleconnection and try and
understand then how does sheneed to dress?
How does she want to show upevery day?
What are the routines in herlife that she needs to establish
(31:04):
to make that work for her everyday?
And let me just say, this is notabout spending money.
Yeah, this is not about designeritems.
This is about acknowledging thatyou have more that you want to
do with your life, and there arethings you might need to shift
to help you on that journey.
SPEAKER_01 (31:23):
I love that.
You know, I I think uh for allof the great style that you see
um walking around the highschool.
SPEAKER_00 (31:32):
There's loads of it, right?
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
Right.
Um, I do think that's anothertrait that I just remember
picking up on when I was thereat a young age, which was I did
not find the women brandishingevery single Single brand of
anything.
SPEAKER_02 (31:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:49):
It was much more understated, even though it
might have been the great brandin the in in that part of the
world, it was a more classicunderstatement.
Like that you were wearing theVB top.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:06):
But not everyone has to know, right?
Exactly right.
SPEAKER_02 (32:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:09):
You know, but I also think as well, you know, that
there's so many nuances tostyle, so many nuances to so
many conversations, right?
Because, you know, I'm not goingto encourage women who work with
me to go shopping until weunderstand those things we've
just talked about, until weunderstand your body shape, uh,
what you would like to reflect,right?
(32:29):
Because your proportions, thehow the dress skims, how the
jacket fits you.
It's no point going to Instagramor any of the social media
platforms and downloading thelist from the influencer.
That does not make any sense.
Because what looks good on that,you know, six-foot beautiful, uh
tall model is not going to lookthe same on your body.
(32:50):
Oh my God.
SPEAKER_01 (32:51):
So what you said right there, I think somebody
needed to hear.
SPEAKER_00 (32:55):
Truly.
We all need to hear it.
SPEAKER_01 (32:57):
Girl, look, how many of us start with the Pinterest
board to style whatever thingyou're going to do without real
grounding on how you probablylook very different.
SPEAKER_00 (33:10):
Very different.
SPEAKER_01 (33:11):
Actually, I think this might be an exercise for
anybody listening to us.
An exercise for anyone listeningto us, go to Pinterest, go to
your Pinterest board, go toInstagram, go to your favorite
Instagram accounts, the onesthat you go to for inspiration
to dress for anything.
Yeah.
The test, the the little testproject that I'd like to put out
(33:32):
there, do an honest assessment.
I'm gonna do it too.
Do an honest assessment ofcompare who I am, me, when I
look in the mirror, looking inthe mirror, to who I have
tagged.
That's right, and who I amfollowing, and ask myself in
(33:54):
with a short of a God miracle.
Yeah, I shall not be her.
SPEAKER_00 (34:03):
Yeah, you look nothing like her, but yet we
will buy the jeans, the top, thedress, the boots that she is
recommending when it doesnothing for your body shape,
nothing, and we get it home,right?
We spend the money, a lot ofthat stuff doesn't go back to
the shop, and so the cyclecontinues.
SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
You're saying, Mandy, honestly, be how do you
design a life where you are yourown influencer?
SPEAKER_00 (34:32):
Oh, I love that.
I'm taking that, I'm takingthat.
You're welcome.
No, that's beautiful, butexactly that.
You're your job, y'all.
SPEAKER_01 (34:40):
That's what I do, y'all.
I take the complex and I swoopit's simple.
They call me the laser shoot,the laser shot.
I'm the laser shot.
SPEAKER_00 (34:49):
Yeah, no, you are, and that and it's exactly that
because yeah, you need toinfluence yourself with you know
your your perspective on life,your perspective about your
style, your body shade, whatyou're doing every day, and no
one else.
That's how you become and have astyle that you love and will
work for you.
SPEAKER_01 (35:09):
I love it.
And you have a you that youlove.
SPEAKER_00 (35:13):
When you look in the mirror, oh my god, how how more
beautiful can that be?
That that image will resonate soclosely with that vision that
you started with.
SPEAKER_01 (35:23):
Mandy, that is such worthy work that you're that
you're building.
SPEAKER_00 (35:29):
Do you see yourself expanding into this full time
and just letting it take youwherever it takes you and how oh
my gosh, Chantra, don't get mestarted on the dreams and the
goals that I have right now.
I mean, 25 2025 was great forme.
Uh it really was.
Lots of great clients.
I ran an event in the June inJuly with so many midlife women
(35:53):
there just experiencing, youknow, you know, um,
conversation, network, helpingthem to see themselves and value
themselves more.
Um, but I do see it expandinginto hopefully a full-time gig,
right?
Um, and me working in 2026 withcorporates around their personal
branding for their mid, youknow, their mid-managers, their
(36:15):
executives, um, and just reallyhelping people see style as a
tool, right?
We've we build the skill set, webuild the CV, you know, we go to
our doctors, we have thedentist.
Your style has to play a part inthe life and career that you're
building.
SPEAKER_01 (36:34):
I love that.
I think that is so incredible.
It's reminiscent to um a conceptthat was really, really popular.
I talked about it on the podcastbefore, um, probably late to
late, late, probably early2000s-ish time frame, the pie
model, right?
Performance, image, andexposure.
SPEAKER_00 (36:54):
There you go.
SPEAKER_01 (36:54):
And um, you know, so many of us um initially spent so
much time focused on theperformance portion of the pie.
Yeah, thinking that if I couldjust work harder, run faster,
fit further, all the things, Iwould see that future that I
expect.
But too few people actuallyfully understood and appreciated
(37:19):
the image portion.
And I love that you are takingit beyond put on a suit.
SPEAKER_00 (37:27):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (37:28):
Because half people show up to the meeting in a suit
and they still shrink, theystill shrink.
SPEAKER_00 (37:36):
Exactly.
Because the nuance, the nuancehere, Chantra, and this is why I
chose you know, these women, isthe midlife women.
The changes that we are goingthrough are so unique to our
stage of life, but we still havebig dreams and goals.
So, yeah, 20 years ago, thatsuit might have got you through
the door.
But as you've as you've touchedon, right, our confidence drops.
(38:00):
Yeah.
We see others who are youngerthan us as as comparison and as
our competitors.
So we need to nurture ourselvesdifferently at this stage of
life.
And a lot of the time it comesdown to, again, what we see in
the mirror that's going to helpus to continue to thrive.
SPEAKER_01 (38:17):
So why uh so I would imagine part of our part of your
work is unpacking the desire tocompare with the younger women
because honestly, I hope thatthat's never something that that
is said about me, because that'snot that's not who I choose to
(38:41):
to be.
I am hopeful that I continue tosee myself in such a way that I
am unique and distinct.
SPEAKER_00 (38:51):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (38:52):
And I am growing with the seasonal shifts in my
life.
Um because I think that it's thewhether whether you're starting
your career and you're comparingyourself to your peers, whether
you're mid-career and you'recomparing yourself to to your
peers who are younger, I the Ithink the one thing that has
(39:16):
limited the people that weremaybe running the race with me,
the people that I've seen thatthat became Carnage on the side
of the road were the ones thatwere so busy looking left and
right that they missed their ownpath.
SPEAKER_00 (39:28):
Oh my god, that's so good.
Yeah, that's so good and sotrue.
And I love that, you know,you're evolving with your own
seasonal shifts.
I love that because everyone hasto go through the seasons,
right?
But it's how you continue tolove on those branches, feed and
water that tree, and make surethat you are flourishing and
(39:51):
thriving at every season.
Um, and for me, that's theimportant work.
It's not comparison, however,you you you're right, we all
want to see ourselves as unique,right?
And that's maybe what we'resaying to ourselves, but truly,
there's comparison going on, andwe just need to be honest with
ourselves, and that will help uson the journey as we evolve.
You're saying be brutally honestwith yourself, be honest, we
(40:13):
have to be honest, and I thinkthat's why I start the process
with the mindset stuff, becausethat's where it starts.
There's no point me saying,let's go shopping, let's go
shopping, let's buy some stuff,let's buy some that that's
money, let's buy that viraljacket, right?
And let's all walk around in inbrown suede, and then you get
that home and you look in themirror and you're like, I still
(40:36):
hate what I see.
Because we've not done thegroundwork.
SPEAKER_01 (40:40):
I love it.
That's so good.
Okay, so now I gotta be a bit umAmerican, and perhaps you're
gonna say a little trivial, butI need to understand what's the
vibe around Megan, Duchess ofYork.
Like, what are we saying on thestreets there?
What's the vibe?
Because I think she showed up atParis Fashion Show slaying and
(41:04):
saying, catch my drift, y'all.
Just catch catch my dust.
SPEAKER_00 (41:09):
Yeah, hey, look, I mean, she always looks good.
She does.
I she does, she does, she alwayslooks good, she's a beautiful
woman, right?
Um, yeah, I don't think you try.
SPEAKER_01 (41:19):
Why don't why are well okay?
So I'm just gonna I'm just gonnago there.
I'm just gonna go there.
What's the deal?
Why does it feel like there's somuch hate for her?
That's what I was gonna say.
SPEAKER_00 (41:29):
That's what I was gonna say.
You know, she looks beautiful,you know.
We great, we know that.
Um, but yeah, I I think she sheshe was never gonna win over
here for for various reasons.
SPEAKER_01 (41:40):
Okay, I need to know that.
Why?
SPEAKER_00 (41:42):
Well, it's the establishment, right?
The establishment will alwaysfound it difficult to accept,
and I think there is a portionof of the UK that is obviously
establishment, they love theestablishment, so they were
always gonna take that stance,but I think where it's
difficult.
Harry was always seen as the theyoung upstart.
(42:04):
I think, you know, people lovethe boys, they do.
I was a great Diana fan, so youknow, what can I say?
Um I think she was just Yeah, Iloved her.
I think Megan was always gonnabe up against it, right?
And then, you know, when we sawhow they quickly shifted in
terms of right, we're out ofhere, we're going back to the
States.
(42:25):
That wasn't take.
I think if they'd have stuck itout for a few years at least,
that would have served them verywell in terms of the in terms of
the British public.
So yeah, I think that didn'tquite work out.
But I hope they continue, right?
I hope they continue to thriveas a couple because they've been
through a lot, right?
Um, but you know what?
While we just talk on celebrity,you know what I did watch
recently is the VictoriaBeckham.
SPEAKER_01 (42:46):
Yes.
Oh I love her.
I so do I.
But honestly, in that littleexercise that I gave you, she's
probably she's one of the onesthat I would have had to look at
because I it's not her, but it'sher fashion brand.
I love like if there was ifsomebody said, Okay, you got a
(43:07):
budget and you cannot ever goacross the line, you have to
pick just one brand, and that'sthe only closet you can walk
into every single day.
Wow, would it be that one?
Would have been my pick.
She would have been wow, yeah.
Wow, because she brings shebrings the funk and the edge,
which I love, and but she alsobrings a bit of the
(43:29):
sophistication, the sophisticsophistication, just a little
bit more.
I was gonna say class, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (43:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I get it, right?
And the the the I love, yeah, Ilove the style and the fashion
that she produces.
I love that.
But you know what I loved aboutthat story?
What is is her story is that sheis the pivot, yeah, is the
pivot.
That's what got me, and it's howshe did it because it resonates
so much with my messages.
SPEAKER_01 (43:57):
But hang on, hang on though.
If we're gonna go there, we'regonna go there.
So many people talk about pivot,yes, but not enough people tell
the truth about pivot.
Yes, yes, but let me tell, letme let me just break make that
plain what I'm trying to say.
Yeah, I've heard pivot as abook, as a concept, as a speech.
(44:19):
I've heard it glamorized overand over and over again.
People even ask me about youknow your pivot, blah blah blah.
What people don't say, I havesaid, because I call it proven
not perfect, but what peopledon't say is the pivot doesn't
come in pretty.
The pivot usually comes instuck, dead, yes, yes, not
(44:45):
working, not flying, painful,painful pivot.
You keep going.
So there's this notion that youcan go from flying high to I
think I'm gonna pivot.
That's not how that goes.
And anybody that says that isnot telling the truth.
SPEAKER_00 (45:02):
I completely agree with you because just to touch
quickly on my own pivot, right?
I spent a good few years in thatin that 20 to 25 space
questioning whether I was goodenough, questioning whether
people would would um questionmy integrity because I work in
technology, right?
She's a corporate woman.
What's she doing as a stylist?
You know, but I think inVictoria's story, although she's
(45:22):
got all this money, right?
Yes, I think they really leanedinto the fact that she was hurt
so much by how the the the worldsaw her, yes, and they saw her
as this ditzy pop star.
Yes, how can you have a fashionhouse and be seen as that, you
know, compared to all thebiggest in fashion?
(45:44):
That's the bit, and I think shedid it so well.
She had to change how she showedup, right?
She had to change how she walkedinto a room, what she wore, you
know, the lipstick, the makeup,the whole brand.
Yes.
And when you have big dreams andgoals like she had, that's how
you've got to do it.
And it's not easy.
SPEAKER_01 (46:04):
So, first and foremost, she had to acknowledge
that she was not in her bestplace.
Yes.
So that is the part of the pivotstory that too many people want
to see.
I've the mindset piece.
I will stand 10 toes down onthat, right?
Yes.
I have to admit that this is notmy best showing.
(46:26):
I am not in my best spot.
Okay.
So I acknowledge that now.
Am I going to accept it?
Yeah.
Getting on with the getting on,right?
I'm at a bad positioncorporately.
They don't acknowledge myskills, experience, impact, and
they want my light to dim versusshine.
Am I going to stay there?
(46:47):
Hmm.
Or I'm in a bad relationship.
That relationship is nottreating me well, not
understanding who I am and myvalue.
Am I going to stay there in thatrelationship?
I can give multiple otherexamples, but once you realize
where you are, and does it servewhat you see in that mandal
(47:12):
statement that's on therefrigerator?
And when you acknowledge that itdoesn't, yeah, now you get it
real.
And you say, There you go, Ihave a choice right here.
Either I'm going to keep thisand get on with the getting on
and let it literally take mylife, or I'm going to get on
out.
I'm going to I'm going to pivotand I'm going to add another P.
(47:34):
I'm going to pursue.
SPEAKER_00 (47:35):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (47:36):
Pivot and pursue.
SPEAKER_00 (47:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (47:39):
Pivot and pause are pivot and pursue.
That's I believe.
SPEAKER_00 (47:43):
Yeah.
And that's so well articulated,Chantra.
And I think it's it's I told youthat's my gift, girl.
SPEAKER_01 (47:49):
That's my gift.
SPEAKER_00 (47:49):
Your gift, girl.
And I think that's what a lot ofwomen come up against,
especially as they've you know,especially successful women in
certain industries, as we'veseen with Victoria, because
that's how people knew her.
And it would have been so easyfor her to just stay at home,
live with David's money andwhatever.
But it's how do you see yourselfdifferently and go on that
(48:13):
journey to help other people seeit too?
SPEAKER_01 (48:16):
Amen.
Well, I I already was rootingfor her, she's pretty amazing.
I would love to see the see thestory that shows us how the
other spice girls live and donow.
SPEAKER_00 (48:29):
Wouldn't that be good, right?
I mean, yeah, I mean, we kind ofthink we kind of hear snippets,
but I think although Victor andI love, and the thing is as
well, she's shown hervulnerability, right?
Because the story was not asuccess all the way through,
right?
Financially, they've hit hitrock bottom, whatever.
But I think the other spicegirls probably look at her and
think, wow, you have to look atthat story and think, wow,
you've you've done a great jobin in just re-envisioning who
(48:53):
you are and how you show up.
SPEAKER_01 (48:55):
And I think also, I would say it goes back to
something that you said earlieron.
People have a tendency to lookat what they see in the exterior
and to make presumptions aroundwhat another person is going
through.
Yes.
And I think, in particular,right now, whether you're in the
UK, whether you're in the US,whether you're in China, whether
(49:18):
you are in Africa, um, I havethe privilege of having
listeners that are in all thoseplaces around the world.
But here's the thing no matterwhat it is, people can look
externally and see what theysee.
That does not mean that you'reokay.
SPEAKER_00 (49:32):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (49:34):
Be honest with you.
Be honest with me.
Do that make us wow.
Mandy, honestly, this is sogood.
When if if somebody wants totalk to you um about their
style, about their image, theywant to do some of this work,
want to unpack some of thesethings, how can they find you?
SPEAKER_00 (49:54):
That would be amazing.
Um, so I'm on Instagram at MandyTucker Stylist.
You can connect me with methere.
Um, I'm also on um LinkedIn aswell.
Um, and my website is MandyTucker Personal Stylist.
So you'll find all the detailsthere.
And I'd love to talk to some ofour US counterparts.
At the event I was at two daysago, I was talking to a lady in
(50:15):
Toronto and she said, I amjumping on your virtual
services.
So I do all of my servicesonline as well as in person.
So yeah, I'd love to speak tosome of your listeners.
SPEAKER_01 (50:25):
I love that.
Well, Mandy, I um I couldn't bemore proud of you.
Um I picked you up on thejourney, girl.
Oh, it's so funny.
So good to talk to you.
It's a compliment that I thoughtit was 20 years longer.
SPEAKER_00 (50:41):
So good to talk to you.
And all I would say to yourlisteners is keep shining right
and keep believing in yourselvesthat whatever dreams you have
can be fulfilled.
It's just, yeah, just just justlook at your journey as valuable
enough and just keep moving,keep moving forward.
SPEAKER_01 (50:55):
Amen.
We are enough.
We are feeling and wonderfullymade.
SPEAKER_00 (51:00):
Made.
Oh, I mean to that.
SPEAKER_01 (51:02):
And not the tail.
SPEAKER_00 (51:05):
I love that.
I love it.
And we thank you so much,Chantra, to for inviting me on.
It's amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (51:10):
You're welcome.
Thank you.
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