December 11, 2024 • 30 mins
Are the lines between moral convictions and legalism often blurred in your understanding of faith? Discover the intricate balance between these concepts as we unravel their significance within the church. Through insights drawn from Romans 14, learn how to identify true legalism by aligning your beliefs with Scripture, and explore the subtle ways self-righteousness can creep into our lives. We'll delve into the historical tensions between Jewish and Gentile Christians and how they can teach us to foster mutual respect and understanding in modern faith communities.
Join us for a compelling conversation on navigating Christian liberty, where we confront modern ethical gray areas such as alcohol, tobacco, and personal lifestyle choices like tattoos. As we examine the teachings of Paul, understand the importance of not judging fellow believers based on personal convictions. We'll also address how past experiences shape our approach to faith and explore principles like expedience and edification to guide our actions. Whether you're a new believer or were raised in a strict religious environment, gain valuable insights into maintaining freedom in Christ while respecting the diverse consciences around you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
All right, welcome back to the Psych and Theo
podcast.
Sam and Tim here ready forwrapping up the year.
We're recording a couple ofepisodes here and looking
forward to just finishing theyear, tim, I'm with you.
I am, I am, I am and we're sohappy that you guys have been
following along and tuning intothe podcast and sharing it with
a lot of people.
I've been hearing from a coupleof you I always like hearing
(00:28):
that when you guys share, thatyou've been sharing the episodes
or that you've enjoyed aparticular topic, so keep
submitting those and also,excuse me, continue to submit
reviews and ratings and all thatjust to help the podcast out.
But we just hit the 2,500download mark yesterday or over
the weekend and we're happyabout that, and I think next
year we could hit uh 10 000.
So I'm excited as this has allbeen organic we've just been
(00:50):
delivering and people have beensharing, so it's been good to
see as I tell people we're alittle baby podcast so if you
like babies, then right yeah,yeah, we're a little baby
podcast, so don't expect toomuch of us folks yeah, birthday
march when is my birthday?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
No, or our birthday?
The podcast birthday.
We should know this, shouldn'twe, before we start talking
about it.
I think we're We'll get it nextepisode.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, yeah.
So we're coming up on our firstyear birthday.
Thank you for tuning in and forsupporting the show.
So today we're going to jumpinto a topic that many of us are
familiar with, the topic oflegalism, or, more specifically,
how to manage Christianliberties.
That kind of encapsulates it.
Yeah, that's a good one.
So Tim here will be diving intothis topic.
(01:35):
I'll ask some questions, andI'm sure you guys have questions
about this as well, so feelfree to submit those and, yeah,
looking forward to it, let's goahead and jump into the topic of
legalism and Christianliberties.
All right, all right.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So, as we jump into this topic, I think that the
episode will be titled how toRecognize Legalism in your
Church, because the word getsthrown out a lot and sometimes
it gets thrown out too much.
People will say like, oh,you're a legalist if you have
any sort of moral conviction,and that's not appropriate.
It's using the term too broadly.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Then other times.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
As I say, a real legalist never recognizes
themselves in the mirror becausethey don't recognize that they
are a legalist.
They don't recognize that theyare a legalist.
And so it's a caution to all ofus that we should be very
careful about what kind of moralprinciples and moral rules that
we're creating for ourselvesand for other people, to make
(02:36):
sure those are aligned withScripture and with the
principles of Scripture.
Jesus, he reserved the harshestcriticisms for the Pharisees
themselves who were the greatestlegalists of all in the New
Testament, and it's reallycliche in our culture to call
someone a Pharisee and to actlike, oh, the other people are
Pharisees, not me.
(02:56):
But it's a warning to all of usthat self-righteousness is a
sin and it's a sin that cancreep in unawares.
We can be self-deluded intothinking that we're good,
everyone else is bad because wegot it figured out and we need
to be really careful with that.
But legalism can come in manydifferent forms, so we can get
(03:20):
into that.
So let's define some terms.
You mentioned Christian liberty.
I think that's really the thingthat we want people to walk
away from is understanding whatthat is.
Christian liberty is a doctrinethat comes to us or it's a
teaching that comes to us from alot of different portions of
(03:40):
scripture, but the passage thatis the most used and helpful for
this topic is Romans 14.
Romans 14 is 23 verses long, soI won't read the whole thing,
but let me just read the firstfive verses to you.
Paul, his whole book.
He's dealing with the issue ofsalvation.
Okay, he walks the Romansthrough what it means to be
(04:08):
saved.
Everyone's condemned, everyoneneeds salvation, everyone sins.
All fall short of the glory ofGod.
All are justified by faith inJesus Christ and all are saved
by him.
But even if we are saved, westill struggle with sin.
That's getting into Romans 6,romans 7.
But we have the promises of theHoly Spirit.
We are saved.
We still struggle with sin.
It's getting into Romans 6,romans 7.
But we have the promises of theHoly Spirit and we have a hope
(04:29):
of sanctification as we workthrough this life.
That's Romans 8.
Then Paul kind of goes on anexcursus talking about the Jews
from Romans 9 through 11.
And then Romans 12, he getsback to instructing Christians
on how to live.
And so Romans 12, romans 13,romans 14, romans 15,.
These are all practical,ethical verses.
(04:51):
That he's.
You know, practical ethics inthe church.
Another on issues about whetheryou can eat certain meats and
certain vegetables or whetheryou can honor one day versus
another.
So there's a lot of tensionbetween the Jewish Christians
(05:13):
and Gentile Christians right now.
So let me read the first fiveverses of Romans 14, one through
five.
He says this as for the one whois weak in faith, welcome him,
but not to quarrel among or overopinions.
One person believes that he mayeat anything.
That would be something like aGentile, while the weak person
(05:34):
eats only vegetables.
If you think of an example ofDaniel in the book of Daniel,
how they, daniel and his threefriends, committed to only eat
vegetables for a certain amountof times, that was a practice.
Not all Jews practice that, butsome Jews did practice that.
So one person believes that hemay eat anything, while the weak
person in this case eats onlyvegetables.
(05:56):
Let not the one who eats despisethe one who abstains, and let
not the one who abstains passjudgment on the one who eats.
Now, when paul says he may eatanything, he means even meats
and foods that the jewsconsidered unclean, like pork.
Okay, so a gentile could eatanything, it's not unclean to
(06:17):
him.
But some jews, they're onlygoing to eat vegetables.
So he's giving two extremeshere and he says let not the one
who eats despise the one whoabstains.
Let not the one who abstainspass judgment on the one who
eats.
Okay, for God has welcomed him.
Who are you to pass judgment onthe servant of another?
It is before his own masterthat he stands or falls, and he
(06:41):
will be upheld, for the Lord isable to make him stand.
Now, here what he's explainingis that our rhetorical question
is who are you to pass judgment?
This person is the Lord'sservant.
Okay, so you are not in aposition to pass judgment on
them, whether they eat orwhether they abstain.
Okay, so they conductthemselves before their master,
(07:02):
that is the Lord, and the Lordis the one who's going to give
them the ability to walk in thepath that he's set for them.
All right, one person esteemsone day better than another,
while another person esteems alldays alike.
So that gets into the issue ofthe Sabbath, okay.
And then he finishes with thisin verse 5.
Each one should be fullyconvinced in his own mind.
(07:26):
And then he goes on to talkabout some other things.
Again, it's a whole chapterthat he gets into this issue.
He goes on to explain theweaker brother and the stronger
brother.
Actually, let me get into thisverses 6 through 9.
He says the one who observesthe day observes it in honor to
the Lord.
The one who eats eats in honorof the Lord, since he gives
(07:47):
thanks to God, while the one whoabstains abstains in honor of
the Lord and gives thanks to God, for none of us lives to
himself and none of us dies tohimself, for if we live, we live
to the Lord and if we die, wedie to the Lord.
So then, whether we live orwhether we die, we are the
Lord's.
For this end, christ died andlived again that he may be both
(08:07):
Lord of the dead and the living.
And then verse 10 through 12.
Why do you pass judgment onyour brother or why do you
despise your brother?
For we will all stand beforethe judgment seat of God.
For it is written as I live,says the Lord, every knee shall
bow to me and every tongue shallconfess, so that each one of us
will give an account ofourselves to God.
(08:27):
Okay, so we'll stop there.
We won't go through the wholechapter, but the whole chapter
is dealing with this issue ofsome Christians have moral
convictions.
In this case, there was a lotof Jews who had moral
convictions to continuefollowing certain aspects of the
law, but Gentile Christianscertainly didn't have those
convictions.
And so there's tension here.
(08:48):
The Jews were looking down onthe Gentiles, the Gentiles were
looking down on the Jews andthey were fighting with one
another.
So he says okay, let's notjudge each other in this regard.
Now, how do we translate thisinto contemporary culture?
Okay, later in the passage,paul explains what a weaker and
stronger brother is.
A stronger brother is one who isable to eat anything, one who
(09:11):
is able to honor every day alike.
It's basically think of like,think of like a.
In this case, it would be likea gentile who's not convicted
about matters of law that aren'tmorally binding to him, or a
Jew who feels free to do thosethings.
Now, a weaker brother is onewhose conscience is weak and
feels the need to continuefollowing certain moral aspects
(09:32):
that he doesn't yet have thefreedom to follow in his
conscience and in his faithbefore God, and so the principle
that Paul gives later in thechapter is that it's a principle
of having the faith in Christto be able to be free from
certain moral principles thatpreviously maybe someone was
(09:53):
under.
So a weaker brother has aweaker conscience.
There's more things that botherthem morally, like you're more
sensitive to things?
Yeah, and a stronger brother isnot as sensitive to those things
and so therefore has a greaterfreedom in the Lord to perhaps
partake in activities or thingsthat a weaker brother would feel
(10:13):
convicted about.
Now, this is not the same aslicentiousness or living it up
okay.
So that's not what Christianliberty is.
But these would be issues whatwe would call ethical gray areas
, where in the New Testamentthere's not a specific command
about these things.
The Lord hasn't commanded allChristians in one direction in
(10:36):
this regard.
Let's translate this intomodern day.
That would be issues likedrinking alcohol.
There are principles inScripture that we could see that
warn of the dangers of drinkingalcohol, but you cannot find a
blanket, absolute prohibition inthe New Testament that says
don't drink alcohol.
(10:56):
In fact, you find instanceswhere people, even Christians,
are partaking in wine in somesense.
I mean, paul tells Timothy takewine for your stomach.
So there's a medicinal purposethere, but alcohol would be one
of them.
Tobacco products now, in thisday and age, certain forms of
cannabis products would fallinto this category as well, as
(11:17):
we're debating over whether it'smoral or right, what's proper
use for it and what isn't.
Going to certain venues likeconcerts or certain clubs.
That would be an issue wherethat would be like an ethical
gray area, not to say that allclubs or you know, like I go to
a strip club, that wouldprobably not be a good thing,
watching certain movies, certainmusic, whether you work on
(11:40):
sunday or not.
Tattoos, piercings, thesethings are all things where the
New Testament doesn't give us adirect instruction on this.
It's not morally binding on allbelievers, everywhere, at all
times, like worshiping the Lordwould be or abstaining from
sexual immorality would be.
You see what I'm saying.
So something like sexualimmorality is a moral absolute
(12:01):
for all Christians.
So something like sexualimmorality is a moral absolute
for all Christians, that it'swrong to engage in that outside
of the marriage union.
So that would be somethingthat's binding on all Christians
.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
There's no sense of Christian liberty when it comes
to that.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
But what one defines as what they define as sexual
immorality is where it's….
Yeah, so here's where legalism…it's a form of coming up with
rules and principles and addingthose onto the biblical text.
Jesus often rebuked thePharisees for this because he
said they would add things tothe law and it was their
tradition.
(12:41):
So the rabbis would debate,they would look at these matters
of the law in the Old Testamentand then they would debate
about what this law meant orwhat that law meant, or what
that law meant, or how far youtake this law or how far you
take that law, and they wouldcome up with principles for how
to perfectly obey the law.
And so if you followed theirprinciples, then you perfectly
obeyed the Mosaic law.
And Jesus rebuked them for thisbecause they were adding all
(13:05):
these rules to the Mosaic law.
And he describes it as thePharisees throwing burdens, like
laying people down with heavyburdens that they couldn't bear,
and so that's what legalismends up doing.
Legalism approaches thescriptures and says well, this
subject is murky and we don'twant to sin.
So there's the good part of it.
(13:25):
It's well-intentioned at first.
We don't want to sin.
Part of it.
It's well-intentioned at first,we don't want to sin.
So, in order not to sin, let'scome up with a second or third
layer of rules to follow to makesure we don't sin.
Where this goes wrong is sayingthese rules should apply to
more than just me.
More than just me should followthese rules.
Everyone, in fact, shouldfollow these rules.
(13:47):
And if you don't follow therules, well then you're sinning.
And what the mistake that alegalist makes is that they
think, if someone breaks mysecond or third layer rules,
that they're sinning, when inreality I'm.
I would, as a legalist, I wouldbe sinning because I'm
violating my.
I know I'm violating myconscience by breaking those
rules you see what I'm saying,yeah so they make up the rules
(14:10):
to keep themselves from sinning,but they end up applying those
rules to everyone else, and thathappens at a broad scale in a
church, when you have a pastoror leadership.
That's very legalistic.
Or just a tradition, that'svery legalistic.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah yeah, it sounds like in the background there's
this intention of I mean, itsounds like a good intention of
wanting to protect people.
But if I'm hearing youcorrectly, you're saying that
this person who comes up withthese rules they're using that
for themselves because of theirweaker conscience, whatever that
may be.
So they're using that and thenthey're saying, well, if this is
working for me, it should workfor you too, so I'm going to
(14:46):
impose it on you.
Is that kind of how legalistsoperate?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, in a sense, there there's a pragmatic
element to it, and that's thatit works for me.
It should work for you, butthere's there's also a
self-right.
There's a righteousness elementto it, which is if you don't
want to follow these rules,there must be something morally
wrong with you, there must besomething bad in your heart.
Yeah, you know, you know I'msaying yeah, so, um, so, when it
comes to alcohol, for instance,there's all sorts of warnings
(15:13):
in Scripture about staying awayfrom alcohol, staying away from
strong drink, drunkenness.
Drunkenness is a sin.
That is clear in Scripture inthe New Testament.
Drunkenness is a sin.
Taking alcoholic substanceslike consuming that.
If you were to make theargument that taking a sip of
(15:33):
alcohol is like getting drunk,it's the first step to getting
drunk and therefore it's sin insome way.
Or here's the thing thatlegalists nowadays verse.
They always pull out In 1 or 2Thessalonians I always get this
confused.
But Paul says avoid even theappearance of evil.
Okay, so they said well, ifyou're drinking, that might
(15:57):
appear sinful to people and youshould avoid that.
Really, it's appearing sinfulto you, not to everyone.
Yeah, so that's a mistake thatlegalists make is that they tend
to make all these extra rulesthat are not in scripture on
matters that are ethically gray.
So Christian liberty is theresponse to that and it says
(16:18):
that we have the freedom to makemoral choices regarding issues
which the scriptures do notaddress directly.
And we have the freedom toaddress those things without
fear of sinning against God.
Okay, as long as our conscienceis clear.
Okay.
But Christian liberty is not afew things.
Some people can run wild withthis.
If they're immature, okay.
So immature believers, they cangrab hold of Christian liberty
(16:43):
and end up sinning becausethey're immature.
They're either a reallyimmature believer or they're a
strong believer or they're astrong brother.
That's using their freedominappropriately.
So Christian liberty is notlicentiousness.
Licentiousness means it comesfrom license, like the license
to do this, the license to dothat.
Licentiousness in scripturerefers to a lifestyle of just
(17:06):
open-ended moral ambiguity.
Like, oh, just everything goes,anything goes, there's no real
sin in the world.
Like, oh, just everything goes,anything goes, there's no real
sin in the world.
Yeah, that's, I live a life.
If I live a licentious life,that means I'm going out and I'm
just living it up and you canfill in the blanks with whatever
.
That is Okay.
That's not Christian liberty,christian liberty isn't saying
well, my conscience isn'tbothered, therefore I'm not
(17:28):
sinning.
Right, right, that's a big one.
Yeah, people make that mistake.
You can have a consciencethat's seared or made callous
through sin.
Your heart can be hardened andblackened by sin to where you no
longer feel the conviction thatyou once did, and that's a very
dangerous place to be.
So just because you don't feelsomething doesn't mean you're
(17:48):
not sinning, and that's you know.
So that's we need to be reallycareful, yeah, yeah.
So it's not licentiousness,it's not lawlessness.
Paul says in romans, chapter 6,verse 15 shall we continue in
sin so that grace may abound?
God forbid.
Just because we have grace andchrist doesn't mean we could
just continue on sinning andpresume upon the grace of God.
You ever had those awkwardprayers sometimes, where you
(18:12):
know you did something wrong andthen you kneel down to pray and
you're going to go through themotions of prayer and then it's
like the thought hits you.
It's like the Holy Spirit's,like you want to talk about that
.
Yeah.
Are we going to talk about thatfirst or you're going to go
through the motions first?
Yeah, so we should not presumeupon the grace of god and I know
(18:34):
, I think all of us are guiltyof that where we sin, and then
we're like, okay, I need toconfess this, you know?
And then you kneel down toconfess and the holy spirit's
like is that what?
You see me, as you know yeahyeah, yeah.
So it's not a.
It's not an excuse to live in alawless, licentious lifestyle,
to rationalize your sin or to becombative with other believers.
(18:55):
So just because you haveChristian liberty to, let's say,
partake in alcohol or, let'ssay, get a tattoo or listen to a
certain kind of music, andanother believer doesn't have
that freedom where they thinkit's wrong, that freedom or they
think it's wrong.
If they think it's wrong,they're probably just a weaker
brother or sister in this regard.
But your Christian libertydoesn't give you an excuse to go
(19:16):
and flaunt it in their face.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Interesting yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
So that's an abuse of Christian liberty.
So it gives us the freedom toaddress ethical gray areas, and
ethical gray area is one ofthose things that scripture
doesn't address specifically ordirectly.
So I think, just to wrap up mylittle monologue here a stronger
brother is one who canparticipate in those ethical
(19:41):
gray areas with full assurancein his conscience that he's not
sinning before God.
A weaker brother is one whocan't participate in that
ethical gray area withconfidence that he's not sinning
before God.
A weaker brother is one whocan't participate in that
ethical gray area withconfidence that he's not sinning
before God.
And that can shift.
Someone can move from a weakerto a stronger brother over time
as they mature in their faith.
But some things people getconvicted over and that
(20:06):
conviction remains for theirwhole life because maybe the
Lord doesn't want them topartake in that Interesting.
Yeah.
For whatever reason, you knowfamily history or their cultural
setting or whatever it is.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
That's a good point yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
And then so Paul tells a stronger brother don't
throw a stumbling block in frontof your weaker brother.
That is like don't do thethings that you have the freedom
to do in front of them.
Sure, yeah, is like, don't dothe things that you have the
freedom to do in front of them.
You have the freedom to do it,but don't do it in front of them
, because then you're throwing astumbling block in front of
that person and you're saying,yeah, it's okay to do, come on,
come on, do it with me.
And you're going to end upgetting that person to violate
(20:40):
their conscience.
So you're sinning by causingsomeone else to sin.
Yep, exactly, yeah.
So you got some questions forme.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah, yeah.
One of the questions I wasgoing to ask is have you noticed
or have you seen that those whobecome legalistic usually come
from a background where theymade they didn't know the Lord
growing up At least, this wasthe experience that I have with
a lot of people from my churchis that they didn't know the
Lord.
They kind of lived the life theway that they wanted they come
to know the Lord and, in orderto avoid everything that they
(21:08):
had experienced from their past,they did take these extreme
measures of okay, I'm definitelynot going to do this, I'm not
going to hang around to thisperson.
So it seems to be a theme ofthose who lived a life of
sinfulness and now come to theLord later on.
They want to avoid itcompletely.
So they have all these rulesfor themselves to not commit
(21:28):
those things again.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, it's very common.
Yeah, you often hear I grew upin a very legalistic environment
.
I grew up in Midwest Ohio,western Ohio, like the Midwest,
and there's a lot of veryconservative fundamentalist
churches in that area and soI've seen this stuff firsthand.
I grew up in it.
I know it Like I can imitate it, you know, and a lot of those
(21:59):
preachers you'll hear them talkabout their wayward life before
they came to the Lord and howthey were in all these different
things I love.
One guy said I was sowing myseeds in the devil's field of
sin.
I'm like that's a great line,you know, and yeah, so then they
swing all the way over tolegalism and they're not aware
that they're adding things toscripture that aren't there.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, yeah, and then on the other side then you have
those who maybe grew up in thechurch, so they have that
mentality, maybe a pharisaicalapproach or the way that they
live, but then when they becomeadults they start to loosen up a
little bit or they completelydeconstruct and just go off and
do it.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I have seen many of my friends or colleagues growing
up as a kid and teenager.
I've seen many of them eithergo completely off the rails and
walk away from the faith, gocompletely off the rails and
just live it up like the world,just completely rebel against
the system that they werebrought up in.
(22:54):
For this reason, becausethey're just.
You know, legalism creates.
It creates this structurethat's impossible to.
It's a standard that'simpossible to live up to and it
creates enormous amounts ofshame in the people that it's
put on.
Yeah, and when they continuallycan't live up to the standard
and they're filled with shameshame by their religious leaders
(23:15):
, shame by their parents andtheir community they're labeled
as, quote-unquote, the bad kidor the bad teenager or whatever.
They identify with those things, and then they end up acting
out later on, when they get thefreedom to do so.
Yeah, so it's a really sadstate.
I've seen a lot of people gothrough that.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah, I was going to ask one more here where?
How does one discern whether ornot they should address
something that's a gray area, ormaybe something that is clearly
stated in scripture, because Ithink that's where people are
going to struggle the most.
I remember hearing thisprinciple.
It was like sometimes somethingis not bad or it's not
necessarily good to do.
(23:53):
It's not bad to do or it's notgood to do, but it may not be
wise.
Yeah, and remember that was suchan important principle to learn
, because, okay, maybe you'renot sinning by doing this
activity, but it's definitelynot wise for you to continue to
do that.
Yeah, right.
So I think that kind of speaksto this idea of I think it's in
(24:14):
Galatians, where it talks aboutthe stronger brother to be able
to address sin in anotherbrother's life, but making sure
that their own life is cleanbefore they address that.
So how does one make thatdistinction?
Because we do have friends, wedo have people that are in our
lives that may not be living ina wise way and it's having
negative effects on their lives,but maybe the sin is not
clearly stated in Scripture.
(24:35):
How do we approach thatsituation?
Speaker 2 (24:38):
So there's a lot of principles that we could get
into and I'll just give a few ofthem here.
So I think there's kind of twolayers to your question.
One is how do you confrontsomeone?
But I think the higher the more, or maybe the lower.
The fundamental layer thatyou're asking about is how do
you frame an issue as whether itis sinful or not, or whether
it's potentially, potentiallysinful, maybe is the way to put
(25:00):
it?
So there's a principle ofexpedience.
That's the first one I wouldgive.
That is.
The question is this is itspiritually profitable to do
this thing or not?
Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6,all things are lawful for me,
but not all things are expedient.
So some things that are likePaul basically said, I could do
(25:21):
almost anything, but noteverything is profitable for me
to do or useful for me to do.
So is it expedient?
Is this thing that someone isdoing or I'm doing, is it
expedient or not?
Edification, principle ofedification Is it building me up
or not, or is it tearing medown?
There's nothing wrong withdrinking mochas I love mochas
(25:46):
but if I get addicted to coffeeand I'm drinking five mochas a
day and I'm falling out of shapeand I'm addicted to caffeine
and I can't live without it.
Okay, that's becoming a vice inmy life.
That's a little petty example,but alcohol is a more serious
one.
Yeah, if you can't if you can'tstay away from it, then you
(26:06):
need to stay away from it.
You know I'm saying yeah yeah,or if it was a part of your yeah
it passed yep, or your family'shistory dip into it yeah you
know, that's where I guess youlook at the family tree and all
that yeah, so edification, uh,with that is like, is it going
to slow me down in my race withthe Lord?
Hebrews says let us lay asideevery weight and sin.
(26:27):
So there's weights and thenthere's sins that easily beset
us and then we need to run withendurance, the race that God has
given us.
So some things are not sinful,but they weigh us down.
We need to lay those aside.
We can come into bondage tothings.
That's the principle ofenslavement.
Is this thing going to bring meinto bondage to something?
(26:49):
We're talking about the alcoholone because it's the easiest
example.
Some people say I don't drinkalcohol, not because I think
it's sinful, but because I don'ttrust it.
I don't want to become analcoholic.
That's a perfectly legitimateapproach to that issue.
That's a wise thing.
We could talk about theprinciple of example.
Is it going to help me set anexample for other believers or
(27:11):
not, or is this actually harmingmy testimony or not?
That is that area of wisdomthat you're getting at that.
We need to really be carefulhow we conduct ourselves,
because I might have the freedomto do something, but it might
be misunderstood, not just by abeliever, but it might be
misunderstood by an unbeliever,and I need to be careful with
(27:34):
that.
I need to be really, reallycareful how I use my Christian
liberty.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
So you have to understand the culture, the
setting that they're in also.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yeah, so is it going to help me set an example?
And also, with that, is itgoing to hinder evangelism?
If the person sees me do thisthing and then I go and witness
to them, are they going to behindered by what I just did or
not?
Is this going to hinder me fromglorifying the Lord and walking
(28:02):
with the Lord?
These are all principles weneed to ask ourselves, or
questions we need to askourselves.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
There's a sense of personal accountability that
someone needs to draw on to beable to make these decisions.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah.
So just a couple pointers toclose it out for people's advice
.
Number one to do anything, weneed to be convinced for
ourselves that it's not sin todo.
We have to be convinced in ourminds and our hearts before the
Lord that it's okay for us to dothat.
And if you're not sure,continue to pray about it until
the Lord gives you freedom.
It's as simple as that.
(28:38):
And don't do it until he givesyou freedom.
But study the scriptures,because the scriptures are the
truth and they will help you.
Seek advice from godly peopleon that issue as well, confident
before the Lord.
As I said, if we're confident toengage in this activity, then
our conscience is free, as longas the scriptures doesn't say
(29:00):
that it's sin.
We need to be considerate ofother believers.
As I said, we do not want tothrow a stumbling block or to
give a matter of offense tobelievers.
And then we need to beconcerned for unbelievers as
well in the exercise of ourChristian liberty.
But we we started this talkingabout legalism and how to
recognize it and my advice forpeople who they understand
(29:25):
Christian liberty but they'refrustrated with legalism they
see around them, I would saythis be patient with people you
think are legalists, becausethey may not be as legalistic as
you think.
They may just be ignorant ofcertain things in Scripture and
if you were to show them, theywould go oh okay, not everyone
who says that you're doingsomething wrong is a legalist,
(29:49):
because you might actually bedoing something wrong.
You might actually just beoffensive to someone.
That doesn't make them alegalist.
It might make you offensive.
So we need to keep that in mind.
I think our generationespecially needs to remember,
remember that that just becausesomeone has a problem with what
you're doing, it doesn't makethem a legalist.
(30:09):
You might actually be doingsomething that's offensive.
Yeah, so check yourself beforeyou wreck yourself, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
That's good, good tips, all right.
Well, I think we.
I think you touched on thetopic of legalism and Christian
freedom pretty well.
Yeah, good job, like it Allright, guys?
Well, we.
This actually is a perfectsegue for our next episode that
we're going to be talking aboutpurity culture, so that'd be a a
big one for us to cover as well.
Thank you for tuning in.
(30:38):
We will talk to you guys nexttime.
All right, welcome back to the Psych and Theo
podcast.
Sam and Tim here ready forwrapping up the year.
We're recording a couple ofepisodes here and looking
forward to just finishing theyear, tim, I'm with you.
I am, I am, I am and we're sohappy that you guys have been
following along and tuning intothe podcast and sharing it with
a lot of people.
I've been hearing from a coupleof you I always like hearing
(00:28):
that when you guys share, thatyou've been sharing the episodes
or that you've enjoyed aparticular topic, so keep
submitting those and also,excuse me, continue to submit
reviews and ratings and all thatjust to help the podcast out.
But we just hit the 2,500download mark yesterday or over
the weekend and we're happyabout that, and I think next
year we could hit uh 10 000.
So I'm excited as this has allbeen organic we've just been
(00:50):
delivering and people have beensharing, so it's been good to
see as I tell people we're alittle baby podcast so if you
like babies, then right yeah,yeah, we're a little baby
podcast, so don't expect toomuch of us folks yeah, birthday
march when is my birthday?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
No, or our birthday?
The podcast birthday.
We should know this, shouldn'twe, before we start talking
about it.
I think we're We'll get it nextepisode.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, yeah.
So we're coming up on our firstyear birthday.
Thank you for tuning in and forsupporting the show.
So today we're going to jumpinto a topic that many of us are
familiar with, the topic oflegalism, or, more specifically,
how to manage Christianliberties.
That kind of encapsulates it.
Yeah, that's a good one.
So Tim here will be diving intothis topic.
(01:35):
I'll ask some questions, andI'm sure you guys have questions
about this as well, so feelfree to submit those and, yeah,
looking forward to it, let's goahead and jump into the topic of
legalism and Christianliberties.
All right, all right.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So, as we jump into this topic, I think that the
episode will be titled how toRecognize Legalism in your
Church, because the word getsthrown out a lot and sometimes
it gets thrown out too much.
People will say like, oh,you're a legalist if you have
any sort of moral conviction,and that's not appropriate.
It's using the term too broadly.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Then other times.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
As I say, a real legalist never recognizes
themselves in the mirror becausethey don't recognize that they
are a legalist.
They don't recognize that theyare a legalist.
And so it's a caution to all ofus that we should be very
careful about what kind of moralprinciples and moral rules that
we're creating for ourselvesand for other people, to make
(02:36):
sure those are aligned withScripture and with the
principles of Scripture.
Jesus, he reserved the harshestcriticisms for the Pharisees
themselves who were the greatestlegalists of all in the New
Testament, and it's reallycliche in our culture to call
someone a Pharisee and to actlike, oh, the other people are
Pharisees, not me.
(02:56):
But it's a warning to all of usthat self-righteousness is a
sin and it's a sin that cancreep in unawares.
We can be self-deluded intothinking that we're good,
everyone else is bad because wegot it figured out and we need
to be really careful with that.
But legalism can come in manydifferent forms, so we can get
(03:20):
into that.
So let's define some terms.
You mentioned Christian liberty.
I think that's really the thingthat we want people to walk
away from is understanding whatthat is.
Christian liberty is a doctrinethat comes to us or it's a
teaching that comes to us from alot of different portions of
(03:40):
scripture, but the passage thatis the most used and helpful for
this topic is Romans 14.
Romans 14 is 23 verses long, soI won't read the whole thing,
but let me just read the firstfive verses to you.
Paul, his whole book.
He's dealing with the issue ofsalvation.
Okay, he walks the Romansthrough what it means to be
(04:08):
saved.
Everyone's condemned, everyoneneeds salvation, everyone sins.
All fall short of the glory ofGod.
All are justified by faith inJesus Christ and all are saved
by him.
But even if we are saved, westill struggle with sin.
That's getting into Romans 6,romans 7.
But we have the promises of theHoly Spirit.
We are saved.
We still struggle with sin.
It's getting into Romans 6,romans 7.
But we have the promises of theHoly Spirit and we have a hope
(04:29):
of sanctification as we workthrough this life.
That's Romans 8.
Then Paul kind of goes on anexcursus talking about the Jews
from Romans 9 through 11.
And then Romans 12, he getsback to instructing Christians
on how to live.
And so Romans 12, romans 13,romans 14, romans 15,.
These are all practical,ethical verses.
(04:51):
That he's.
You know, practical ethics inthe church.
Another on issues about whetheryou can eat certain meats and
certain vegetables or whetheryou can honor one day versus
another.
So there's a lot of tensionbetween the Jewish Christians
(05:13):
and Gentile Christians right now.
So let me read the first fiveverses of Romans 14, one through
five.
He says this as for the one whois weak in faith, welcome him,
but not to quarrel among or overopinions.
One person believes that he mayeat anything.
That would be something like aGentile, while the weak person
(05:34):
eats only vegetables.
If you think of an example ofDaniel in the book of Daniel,
how they, daniel and his threefriends, committed to only eat
vegetables for a certain amountof times, that was a practice.
Not all Jews practice that, butsome Jews did practice that.
So one person believes that hemay eat anything, while the weak
person in this case eats onlyvegetables.
(05:56):
Let not the one who eats despisethe one who abstains, and let
not the one who abstains passjudgment on the one who eats.
Now, when paul says he may eatanything, he means even meats
and foods that the jewsconsidered unclean, like pork.
Okay, so a gentile could eatanything, it's not unclean to
(06:17):
him.
But some jews, they're onlygoing to eat vegetables.
So he's giving two extremeshere and he says let not the one
who eats despise the one whoabstains.
Let not the one who abstainspass judgment on the one who
eats.
Okay, for God has welcomed him.
Who are you to pass judgment onthe servant of another?
It is before his own masterthat he stands or falls, and he
(06:41):
will be upheld, for the Lord isable to make him stand.
Now, here what he's explainingis that our rhetorical question
is who are you to pass judgment?
This person is the Lord'sservant.
Okay, so you are not in aposition to pass judgment on
them, whether they eat orwhether they abstain.
Okay, so they conductthemselves before their master,
(07:02):
that is the Lord, and the Lordis the one who's going to give
them the ability to walk in thepath that he's set for them.
All right, one person esteemsone day better than another,
while another person esteems alldays alike.
So that gets into the issue ofthe Sabbath, okay.
And then he finishes with thisin verse 5.
Each one should be fullyconvinced in his own mind.
(07:26):
And then he goes on to talkabout some other things.
Again, it's a whole chapterthat he gets into this issue.
He goes on to explain theweaker brother and the stronger
brother.
Actually, let me get into thisverses 6 through 9.
He says the one who observesthe day observes it in honor to
the Lord.
The one who eats eats in honorof the Lord, since he gives
(07:47):
thanks to God, while the one whoabstains abstains in honor of
the Lord and gives thanks to God, for none of us lives to
himself and none of us dies tohimself, for if we live, we live
to the Lord and if we die, wedie to the Lord.
So then, whether we live orwhether we die, we are the
Lord's.
For this end, christ died andlived again that he may be both
(08:07):
Lord of the dead and the living.
And then verse 10 through 12.
Why do you pass judgment onyour brother or why do you
despise your brother?
For we will all stand beforethe judgment seat of God.
For it is written as I live,says the Lord, every knee shall
bow to me and every tongue shallconfess, so that each one of us
will give an account ofourselves to God.
(08:27):
Okay, so we'll stop there.
We won't go through the wholechapter, but the whole chapter
is dealing with this issue ofsome Christians have moral
convictions.
In this case, there was a lotof Jews who had moral
convictions to continuefollowing certain aspects of the
law, but Gentile Christianscertainly didn't have those
convictions.
And so there's tension here.
(08:48):
The Jews were looking down onthe Gentiles, the Gentiles were
looking down on the Jews andthey were fighting with one
another.
So he says okay, let's notjudge each other in this regard.
Now, how do we translate thisinto contemporary culture?
Okay, later in the passage,paul explains what a weaker and
stronger brother is.
A stronger brother is one who isable to eat anything, one who
(09:11):
is able to honor every day alike.
It's basically think of like,think of like a.
In this case, it would be likea gentile who's not convicted
about matters of law that aren'tmorally binding to him, or a
Jew who feels free to do thosethings.
Now, a weaker brother is onewhose conscience is weak and
feels the need to continuefollowing certain moral aspects
(09:32):
that he doesn't yet have thefreedom to follow in his
conscience and in his faithbefore God, and so the principle
that Paul gives later in thechapter is that it's a principle
of having the faith in Christto be able to be free from
certain moral principles thatpreviously maybe someone was
(09:53):
under.
So a weaker brother has aweaker conscience.
There's more things that botherthem morally, like you're more
sensitive to things?
Yeah, and a stronger brother isnot as sensitive to those things
and so therefore has a greaterfreedom in the Lord to perhaps
partake in activities or thingsthat a weaker brother would feel
(10:13):
convicted about.
Now, this is not the same aslicentiousness or living it up
okay.
So that's not what Christianliberty is.
But these would be issues whatwe would call ethical gray areas
, where in the New Testamentthere's not a specific command
about these things.
The Lord hasn't commanded allChristians in one direction in
(10:36):
this regard.
Let's translate this intomodern day.
That would be issues likedrinking alcohol.
There are principles inScripture that we could see that
warn of the dangers of drinkingalcohol, but you cannot find a
blanket, absolute prohibition inthe New Testament that says
don't drink alcohol.
(10:56):
In fact, you find instanceswhere people, even Christians,
are partaking in wine in somesense.
I mean, paul tells Timothy takewine for your stomach.
So there's a medicinal purposethere, but alcohol would be one
of them.
Tobacco products now, in thisday and age, certain forms of
cannabis products would fallinto this category as well, as
(11:17):
we're debating over whether it'smoral or right, what's proper
use for it and what isn't.
Going to certain venues likeconcerts or certain clubs.
That would be an issue wherethat would be like an ethical
gray area, not to say that allclubs or you know, like I go to
a strip club, that wouldprobably not be a good thing,
watching certain movies, certainmusic, whether you work on
(11:40):
sunday or not.
Tattoos, piercings, thesethings are all things where the
New Testament doesn't give us adirect instruction on this.
It's not morally binding on allbelievers, everywhere, at all
times, like worshiping the Lordwould be or abstaining from
sexual immorality would be.
You see what I'm saying.
So something like sexualimmorality is a moral absolute
(12:01):
for all Christians.
So something like sexualimmorality is a moral absolute
for all Christians, that it'swrong to engage in that outside
of the marriage union.
So that would be somethingthat's binding on all Christians
.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
There's no sense of Christian liberty when it comes
to that.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
But what one defines as what they define as sexual
immorality is where it's….
Yeah, so here's where legalism…it's a form of coming up with
rules and principles and addingthose onto the biblical text.
Jesus often rebuked thePharisees for this because he
said they would add things tothe law and it was their
tradition.
(12:41):
So the rabbis would debate,they would look at these matters
of the law in the Old Testamentand then they would debate
about what this law meant orwhat that law meant, or what
that law meant, or how far youtake this law or how far you
take that law, and they wouldcome up with principles for how
to perfectly obey the law.
And so if you followed theirprinciples, then you perfectly
obeyed the Mosaic law.
And Jesus rebuked them for thisbecause they were adding all
(13:05):
these rules to the Mosaic law.
And he describes it as thePharisees throwing burdens, like
laying people down with heavyburdens that they couldn't bear,
and so that's what legalismends up doing.
Legalism approaches thescriptures and says well, this
subject is murky and we don'twant to sin.
So there's the good part of it.
(13:25):
It's well-intentioned at first.
We don't want to sin.
Part of it.
It's well-intentioned at first,we don't want to sin.
So, in order not to sin, let'scome up with a second or third
layer of rules to follow to makesure we don't sin.
Where this goes wrong is sayingthese rules should apply to
more than just me.
More than just me should followthese rules.
Everyone, in fact, shouldfollow these rules.
(13:47):
And if you don't follow therules, well then you're sinning.
And what the mistake that alegalist makes is that they
think, if someone breaks mysecond or third layer rules,
that they're sinning, when inreality I'm.
I would, as a legalist, I wouldbe sinning because I'm
violating my.
I know I'm violating myconscience by breaking those
rules you see what I'm saying,yeah so they make up the rules
(14:10):
to keep themselves from sinning,but they end up applying those
rules to everyone else, and thathappens at a broad scale in a
church, when you have a pastoror leadership.
That's very legalistic.
Or just a tradition, that'svery legalistic.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah yeah, it sounds like in the background there's
this intention of I mean, itsounds like a good intention of
wanting to protect people.
But if I'm hearing youcorrectly, you're saying that
this person who comes up withthese rules they're using that
for themselves because of theirweaker conscience, whatever that
may be.
So they're using that and thenthey're saying, well, if this is
working for me, it should workfor you too, so I'm going to
(14:46):
impose it on you.
Is that kind of how legalistsoperate?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, in a sense, there there's a pragmatic
element to it, and that's thatit works for me.
It should work for you, butthere's there's also a
self-right.
There's a righteousness elementto it, which is if you don't
want to follow these rules,there must be something morally
wrong with you, there must besomething bad in your heart.
Yeah, you know, you know I'msaying yeah, so, um, so, when it
comes to alcohol, for instance,there's all sorts of warnings
(15:13):
in Scripture about staying awayfrom alcohol, staying away from
strong drink, drunkenness.
Drunkenness is a sin.
That is clear in Scripture inthe New Testament.
Drunkenness is a sin.
Taking alcoholic substanceslike consuming that.
If you were to make theargument that taking a sip of
(15:33):
alcohol is like getting drunk,it's the first step to getting
drunk and therefore it's sin insome way.
Or here's the thing thatlegalists nowadays verse.
They always pull out In 1 or 2Thessalonians I always get this
confused.
But Paul says avoid even theappearance of evil.
Okay, so they said well, ifyou're drinking, that might
(15:57):
appear sinful to people and youshould avoid that.
Really, it's appearing sinfulto you, not to everyone.
Yeah, so that's a mistake thatlegalists make is that they tend
to make all these extra rulesthat are not in scripture on
matters that are ethically gray.
So Christian liberty is theresponse to that and it says
(16:18):
that we have the freedom to makemoral choices regarding issues
which the scriptures do notaddress directly.
And we have the freedom toaddress those things without
fear of sinning against God.
Okay, as long as our conscienceis clear.
Okay.
But Christian liberty is not afew things.
Some people can run wild withthis.
If they're immature, okay.
So immature believers, they cangrab hold of Christian liberty
(16:43):
and end up sinning becausethey're immature.
They're either a reallyimmature believer or they're a
strong believer or they're astrong brother.
That's using their freedominappropriately.
So Christian liberty is notlicentiousness.
Licentiousness means it comesfrom license, like the license
to do this, the license to dothat.
Licentiousness in scripturerefers to a lifestyle of just
(17:06):
open-ended moral ambiguity.
Like, oh, just everything goes,anything goes, there's no real
sin in the world.
Like, oh, just everything goes,anything goes, there's no real
sin in the world.
Yeah, that's, I live a life.
If I live a licentious life,that means I'm going out and I'm
just living it up and you canfill in the blanks with whatever
.
That is Okay.
That's not Christian liberty,christian liberty isn't saying
well, my conscience isn'tbothered, therefore I'm not
(17:28):
sinning.
Right, right, that's a big one.
Yeah, people make that mistake.
You can have a consciencethat's seared or made callous
through sin.
Your heart can be hardened andblackened by sin to where you no
longer feel the conviction thatyou once did, and that's a very
dangerous place to be.
So just because you don't feelsomething doesn't mean you're
(17:48):
not sinning, and that's you know.
So that's we need to be reallycareful, yeah, yeah.
So it's not licentiousness,it's not lawlessness.
Paul says in romans, chapter 6,verse 15 shall we continue in
sin so that grace may abound?
God forbid.
Just because we have grace andchrist doesn't mean we could
just continue on sinning andpresume upon the grace of God.
You ever had those awkwardprayers sometimes, where you
(18:12):
know you did something wrong andthen you kneel down to pray and
you're going to go through themotions of prayer and then it's
like the thought hits you.
It's like the Holy Spirit's,like you want to talk about that
.
Yeah.
Are we going to talk about thatfirst or you're going to go
through the motions first?
Yeah, so we should not presumeupon the grace of god and I know
(18:34):
, I think all of us are guiltyof that where we sin, and then
we're like, okay, I need toconfess this, you know?
And then you kneel down toconfess and the holy spirit's
like is that what?
You see me, as you know yeahyeah, yeah.
So it's not a.
It's not an excuse to live in alawless, licentious lifestyle,
to rationalize your sin or to becombative with other believers.
(18:55):
So just because you haveChristian liberty to, let's say,
partake in alcohol or, let'ssay, get a tattoo or listen to a
certain kind of music, andanother believer doesn't have
that freedom where they thinkit's wrong, that freedom or they
think it's wrong.
If they think it's wrong,they're probably just a weaker
brother or sister in this regard.
But your Christian libertydoesn't give you an excuse to go
(19:16):
and flaunt it in their face.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Interesting yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
So that's an abuse of Christian liberty.
So it gives us the freedom toaddress ethical gray areas, and
ethical gray area is one ofthose things that scripture
doesn't address specifically ordirectly.
So I think, just to wrap up mylittle monologue here a stronger
brother is one who canparticipate in those ethical
(19:41):
gray areas with full assurancein his conscience that he's not
sinning before God.
A weaker brother is one whocan't participate in that
ethical gray area withconfidence that he's not sinning
before God.
A weaker brother is one whocan't participate in that
ethical gray area withconfidence that he's not sinning
before God.
And that can shift.
Someone can move from a weakerto a stronger brother over time
as they mature in their faith.
But some things people getconvicted over and that
(20:06):
conviction remains for theirwhole life because maybe the
Lord doesn't want them topartake in that Interesting.
Yeah.
For whatever reason, you knowfamily history or their cultural
setting or whatever it is.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
That's a good point yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
And then so Paul tells a stronger brother don't
throw a stumbling block in frontof your weaker brother.
That is like don't do thethings that you have the freedom
to do in front of them.
Sure, yeah, is like, don't dothe things that you have the
freedom to do in front of them.
You have the freedom to do it,but don't do it in front of them
, because then you're throwing astumbling block in front of
that person and you're saying,yeah, it's okay to do, come on,
come on, do it with me.
And you're going to end upgetting that person to violate
(20:40):
their conscience.
So you're sinning by causingsomeone else to sin.
Yep, exactly, yeah.
So you got some questions forme.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah, yeah.
One of the questions I wasgoing to ask is have you noticed
or have you seen that those whobecome legalistic usually come
from a background where theymade they didn't know the Lord
growing up At least, this wasthe experience that I have with
a lot of people from my churchis that they didn't know the
Lord.
They kind of lived the life theway that they wanted they come
to know the Lord and, in orderto avoid everything that they
(21:08):
had experienced from their past,they did take these extreme
measures of okay, I'm definitelynot going to do this, I'm not
going to hang around to thisperson.
So it seems to be a theme ofthose who lived a life of
sinfulness and now come to theLord later on.
They want to avoid itcompletely.
So they have all these rulesfor themselves to not commit
(21:28):
those things again.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, it's very common.
Yeah, you often hear I grew upin a very legalistic environment
.
I grew up in Midwest Ohio,western Ohio, like the Midwest,
and there's a lot of veryconservative fundamentalist
churches in that area and soI've seen this stuff firsthand.
I grew up in it.
I know it Like I can imitate it, you know, and a lot of those
(21:59):
preachers you'll hear them talkabout their wayward life before
they came to the Lord and howthey were in all these different
things I love.
One guy said I was sowing myseeds in the devil's field of
sin.
I'm like that's a great line,you know, and yeah, so then they
swing all the way over tolegalism and they're not aware
that they're adding things toscripture that aren't there.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, yeah, and then on the other side then you have
those who maybe grew up in thechurch, so they have that
mentality, maybe a pharisaicalapproach or the way that they
live, but then when they becomeadults they start to loosen up a
little bit or they completelydeconstruct and just go off and
do it.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I have seen many of my friends or colleagues growing
up as a kid and teenager.
I've seen many of them eithergo completely off the rails and
walk away from the faith, gocompletely off the rails and
just live it up like the world,just completely rebel against
the system that they werebrought up in.
(22:54):
For this reason, becausethey're just.
You know, legalism creates.
It creates this structurethat's impossible to.
It's a standard that'simpossible to live up to and it
creates enormous amounts ofshame in the people that it's
put on.
Yeah, and when they continuallycan't live up to the standard
and they're filled with shameshame by their religious leaders
(23:15):
, shame by their parents andtheir community they're labeled
as, quote-unquote, the bad kidor the bad teenager or whatever.
They identify with those things, and then they end up acting
out later on, when they get thefreedom to do so.
Yeah, so it's a really sadstate.
I've seen a lot of people gothrough that.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah, I was going to ask one more here where?
How does one discern whether ornot they should address
something that's a gray area, ormaybe something that is clearly
stated in scripture, because Ithink that's where people are
going to struggle the most.
I remember hearing thisprinciple.
It was like sometimes somethingis not bad or it's not
necessarily good to do.
(23:53):
It's not bad to do or it's notgood to do, but it may not be
wise.
Yeah, and remember that was suchan important principle to learn
, because, okay, maybe you'renot sinning by doing this
activity, but it's definitelynot wise for you to continue to
do that.
Yeah, right.
So I think that kind of speaksto this idea of I think it's in
(24:14):
Galatians, where it talks aboutthe stronger brother to be able
to address sin in anotherbrother's life, but making sure
that their own life is cleanbefore they address that.
So how does one make thatdistinction?
Because we do have friends, wedo have people that are in our
lives that may not be living ina wise way and it's having
negative effects on their lives,but maybe the sin is not
clearly stated in Scripture.
(24:35):
How do we approach thatsituation?
Speaker 2 (24:38):
So there's a lot of principles that we could get
into and I'll just give a few ofthem here.
So I think there's kind of twolayers to your question.
One is how do you confrontsomeone?
But I think the higher the more, or maybe the lower.
The fundamental layer thatyou're asking about is how do
you frame an issue as whether itis sinful or not, or whether
it's potentially, potentiallysinful, maybe is the way to put
(25:00):
it?
So there's a principle ofexpedience.
That's the first one I wouldgive.
That is.
The question is this is itspiritually profitable to do
this thing or not?
Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6,all things are lawful for me,
but not all things are expedient.
So some things that are likePaul basically said, I could do
(25:21):
almost anything, but noteverything is profitable for me
to do or useful for me to do.
So is it expedient?
Is this thing that someone isdoing or I'm doing, is it
expedient or not?
Edification, principle ofedification Is it building me up
or not, or is it tearing medown?
There's nothing wrong withdrinking mochas I love mochas
(25:46):
but if I get addicted to coffeeand I'm drinking five mochas a
day and I'm falling out of shapeand I'm addicted to caffeine
and I can't live without it.
Okay, that's becoming a vice inmy life.
That's a little petty example,but alcohol is a more serious
one.
Yeah, if you can't if you can'tstay away from it, then you
(26:06):
need to stay away from it.
You know I'm saying yeah yeah,or if it was a part of your yeah
it passed yep, or your family'shistory dip into it yeah you
know, that's where I guess youlook at the family tree and all
that yeah, so edification, uh,with that is like, is it going
to slow me down in my race withthe Lord?
Hebrews says let us lay asideevery weight and sin.
(26:27):
So there's weights and thenthere's sins that easily beset
us and then we need to run withendurance, the race that God has
given us.
So some things are not sinful,but they weigh us down.
We need to lay those aside.
We can come into bondage tothings.
That's the principle ofenslavement.
Is this thing going to bring meinto bondage to something?
(26:49):
We're talking about the alcoholone because it's the easiest
example.
Some people say I don't drinkalcohol, not because I think
it's sinful, but because I don'ttrust it.
I don't want to become analcoholic.
That's a perfectly legitimateapproach to that issue.
That's a wise thing.
We could talk about theprinciple of example.
Is it going to help me set anexample for other believers or
(27:11):
not, or is this actually harmingmy testimony or not?
That is that area of wisdomthat you're getting at that.
We need to really be carefulhow we conduct ourselves,
because I might have the freedomto do something, but it might
be misunderstood, not just by abeliever, but it might be
misunderstood by an unbeliever,and I need to be careful with
(27:34):
that.
I need to be really, reallycareful how I use my Christian
liberty.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
So you have to understand the culture, the
setting that they're in also.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yeah, so is it going to help me set an example?
And also, with that, is itgoing to hinder evangelism?
If the person sees me do thisthing and then I go and witness
to them, are they going to behindered by what I just did or
not?
Is this going to hinder me fromglorifying the Lord and walking
(28:02):
with the Lord?
These are all principles weneed to ask ourselves, or
questions we need to askourselves.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
There's a sense of personal accountability that
someone needs to draw on to beable to make these decisions.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah.
So just a couple pointers toclose it out for people's advice
.
Number one to do anything, weneed to be convinced for
ourselves that it's not sin todo.
We have to be convinced in ourminds and our hearts before the
Lord that it's okay for us to dothat.
And if you're not sure,continue to pray about it until
the Lord gives you freedom.
It's as simple as that.
(28:38):
And don't do it until he givesyou freedom.
But study the scriptures,because the scriptures are the
truth and they will help you.
Seek advice from godly peopleon that issue as well, confident
before the Lord.
As I said, if we're confident toengage in this activity, then
our conscience is free, as longas the scriptures doesn't say
(29:00):
that it's sin.
We need to be considerate ofother believers.
As I said, we do not want tothrow a stumbling block or to
give a matter of offense tobelievers.
And then we need to beconcerned for unbelievers as
well in the exercise of ourChristian liberty.
But we we started this talkingabout legalism and how to
recognize it and my advice forpeople who they understand
(29:25):
Christian liberty but they'refrustrated with legalism they
see around them, I would saythis be patient with people you
think are legalists, becausethey may not be as legalistic as
you think.
They may just be ignorant ofcertain things in Scripture and
if you were to show them, theywould go oh okay, not everyone
who says that you're doingsomething wrong is a legalist,
(29:49):
because you might actually bedoing something wrong.
You might actually just beoffensive to someone.
That doesn't make them alegalist.
It might make you offensive.
So we need to keep that in mind.
I think our generationespecially needs to remember,
remember that that just becausesomeone has a problem with what
you're doing, it doesn't makethem a legalist.
(30:09):
You might actually be doingsomething that's offensive.
Yeah, so check yourself beforeyou wreck yourself, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
That's good, good tips, all right.
Well, I think we.
I think you touched on thetopic of legalism and Christian
freedom pretty well.
Yeah, good job, like it Allright, guys?
Well, we.
This actually is a perfectsegue for our next episode that
we're going to be talking aboutpurity culture, so that'd be a a
big one for us to cover as well.
Thank you for tuning in.
(30:38):
We will talk to you guys nexttime.
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