October 8, 2024 • 16 mins
If you think you may be experiencing burnout, what can you do? To answer this question, Dr. Fallucco discusses strategies to combat healthcare burnout with Dr. Jessi Gold, Chief Wellness Officer at the University of Tennessee Health System.
WE discuss:
* That systemic changes in Healthcare are urgently needed to reduce burnout.
* Individual strategies to address burnout in the current healthcare system including:
----- practicing self-reflection - and asking, "How Do *I* feel?" and "How is my job affecting my health?"
-----practicing self-compassion and gratitude, which can help counterbalance the natural tendency for our brain to focus on negative things and threats,
--- We discuss the “Three Good Things” exercise which can help reduce burnout and increase well-being. Three Good Things and other free tools are available at the Duke Center for Healthcare Safety and Quality online at: https://hsq.dukehealth.org/tools/
Dr. Jessi Gold is an Associate Professor of Psychiatry at UT Health Science Center. Dr. Gold is not only a psychiatrist, but she is a mental health advocate and fantastic writer whose work has appeared in the New York Times, The Atlantic, InStyle, Slate, and Self.
https://www.drjessigold.com/
@drjessigold
Dr. Gold's new memoir is called
How Do You Feel? One Doctor's Search for Humanity in Medicine available on Amazon at
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1982199776?tag=simonsayscom
Check out our website PsychEd4Peds.com for more resources.
Follow us on Instagram @psyched4peds
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Elise Fallucco (00:21):
welcome back to Psyched4Peds, the child
mental health podcast forpediatric clinicians, helping
you help kids.
I'm your host, Dr.
Elise Fallucco, childpsychiatrist and mom.
So we're continuing ourconversation about burnout in
healthcare with Dr.
Jessi gold, chief wellnessofficer at the university of
(00:41):
Tennessee health system,psychiatrist and author of the
book.
How do you feel?
One doctor's search for humanityin medicine.
In our last episode with Dr.
Gold, we talked about how torecognize signs of burnout.
And now the real question forthis episode is what do we do
when we recognize that we orsomeone we love is burned out.
(01:04):
I'm looking for solutions.
Life hacks pro tips to help usdeal and survive in healthcare.
Dr.
Jessi gold.
What would you recommend?
Dr. Jessi Gold (01:15):
So disclaimer, whenever I talk about individual
solutions, people want to punchme in the face because The
system is a big problem.
And I think they think when I'mtalking about an individual
solution that I'm notacknowledging that the system is
a big problem.
I chose the career and thecareer path I have to attempt to
fix the system.
(01:37):
But in the meantime, most of thepeople listening can't fix the
system.
It's not their job.
It involves the government.
It involves insurance companies.
These are big,, big monolithicindustries that, we're fighting
for these things to changemedicine.
but inherently, if you don'twant to quit, which is an option
by the way, but if you don'twant to quit, you have to figure
(01:58):
out how to fit in an existingmold, which is the existing
culture and the existing sort ofsystem problems you have to have
faith and hope that someone'staking your feedback and
listening, that someone like meis working on that stuff in
parallel, but that stuff takestime.
And so in the meantime, shouldyou want to stay in the field,
you do have to do individualthings.
(02:21):
So the individual things thatI've seen be helpful, One is
actually paying attention to howyou feel.
It is cheesy, it's the title ofmy book for a reason, but
really, we spend so much time onother people that we don't even
pause to do a self check in, andif we did, we would notice stuff
earlier.
Whatever those symptoms are foryou, or whatever those things
(02:43):
that might be changed for you.
So sometimes I'm like, how did Isleep?
How am I interacting with mypeers and colleagues?
How mad am I at my emails?
Whatever that is, right?
I'm not saying do that every twominutes.
I'm saying like once a weekwould be nice just to make sure
that you actually are checkingin with yourself and
acknowledging your humanity inthis situation.
Another thing that can be reallyhelpful is our brains
(03:05):
evolutionarily are designed toremember the bad thing and to
pick out the bad thing, right?
So we learned if we ate apoisonous berry and it made us
sick not to eat that berryagain.
And so our brain was likepoisonous berry today, poisonous
berry today.
All I did was eat a poisonousberry today.
And so our brains are like,basically supposed to tell us
all the things we do wrong overand over, but in the way that
(03:28):
it, manifests in somebody who'sa perfectionist is not good.
And so there's two ways tocombat that one is self
compassion, which is probablythe most important thing for
anybody in medicine, I have tobe gentle and kind to myself and
say nicer things to myself.
Not, if I burn out, I'm ahorrible doctor.
If I burn out, this week wasreally hard.
(03:48):
I totally get it.
Be nicer to yourself and theother thing in that same vein is
like Trying to pick out the goodstuff in your day.
There's a thing called ThreeGood Things you can get that
from Duke online they have aprogram for it that's a text
program..
But if you don't go that way,you can literally just write
down the three good things ofyour day.
What it does is force you toremember that even though that
(04:09):
you had the poisonous berry,maybe, That like someone said
something nice to you or apatient complimented you or you
help someone today or whateverthat is.
And so you're like, you're leftwith more of a balance.
And I think we really need thebalance so that we don't just
go, I'm a failure.
I'm a failure.
I'm a failure.
Nobody wants.
And then on top of that, I'm notsleeping.
I'm not functioning.
I'm going to work sick.
I'm going to burn out.
(04:29):
There's just no way.
And so those are a couple thingsthat I think are.
Easy life hacks that have workedfor me have worked for patients
and I will say sometimes peopleDon't like a woo woo thing and
think that like the three goodthings or Things like that might
feel a little like there's noway there's tons of evidence on
that You can see it in my bookBut you can also see all of the
(04:49):
stuff by Brian Sexton who madethe program they've studied
this.
Dr. Elise Fallucco (04:54):
The first thing that you can do to survive
in this culture or continuenavigating in this culture is
pay attention to how you'refeeling.
How's your sleep?
How's your mood?
How's your energy?
How are you responding to yourinbox?
Or for me, I think the tippingpoint was like, how do I feel at
the end of the day?
How, of course we're tired, butcan I deal with bedtime?
(05:15):
I get for me, it got to thepoint where my sweet little guy
who was probably, six or sevenyears Old at the time was like,
mommy, it's time for our minute.
It's time for you to tuck me inand we talk.
And I was so tired and just donetalking that I wanted to avoid
it.
I'm like, maybe if I fall asleepon the couch down here, he won't
(05:35):
notice and he'll forget.
And And I feel so bad about itin hindsight, and I again, in
hindsight, I realized yeah, thatwas a symptom, that something
was not great, that, thesethings that are supposed to be
life giving and the prioritiesof my life, like family, were
taking a back seat.
So number one, ask yourself howyou're feeling, be honest about
(05:56):
it.
And if you can have some reallife people in, who can reflect
and ask you those questions andwho you can be honest with,
whether it's your therapist oryour friends or your family or
somebody.
Number two was fight our naturaltendency to focus on the
negative things by practicingself compassion, like giving
ourselves some grace, beingnicer to yourself.
(06:18):
And then finally three, try toconsciously get your brain to
pay attention to the positivethings in your day.
One of the things that my familydoes when we try to have dinner
together on the few times thatwe don't have 8, 000 activities
and are actually able to sit ata table and eat a meal.
We do this thing called rosebudand thorn, and it's not exactly
(06:39):
three good things, but it'swhere you talk about, the rose,
the good, the best thing in yourday, the bud.
We interpret that as somethingelse that's pretty good in your
day, but not quite a rose.
And then finally the thorn.
Something that's challengingthat you're dealing with.
And we go around the table andeach of the kids and I and my
husband talk about that.
And it's a nice way to reconnectand also to try to remember
(07:01):
again, like the easiest thingthat comes to my mind every
single day is the thorn.
I'm like, Oh, I can go on and onabout that thorn.
Let me tell you who annoyed metoday.
But anyway, to the point thatour minds tend to focus on the
negative.
Dr. Jessi Gold (07:14):
And we like have a culture of that too, right?
I think there's camaraderie in,for lack of a better word,
bitching about some stuff in theworkplace, like we like that.
It's just when that takes overand you can't do anything else,
like it's really hard to go intowork knowing that your only sort
of solace is to complain to afriend, right?
I think you need the friend, butit'd be nice if you talked about
(07:36):
something completely not relatedto work as well.
Dr. Elise Fallucco (07:40):
Exactly.
The other solace in going towork, it makes me think of, we
had a drawer full of chocolateat one of the clinics that I
worked at,
Dr. Jessi Gold (07:46):
that
Dr. Elise Fallucco (07:47):
one of my colleagues brought, and I was
like, I can do it today becauseof that drawer full of
chocolate.
Dr. Jessi Gold (07:52):
My admin has like a bunch of candy, and I'm
always like, are you trying tokill me inadvertently?
Because every time I walk by,it's really hard not to eat the
candy, but, oh my gosh.
Dr. Elise Fallucco (08:03):
It's like such a stress reliever.
We're not that we're endorsingthat by any means.
Okay.
You've done such a good jobabout de stigmatizing mental
health and being really openabout your own personal journey
and mental health journey.
You have written a memoir aboutyour own experience and
struggles helping more peoplefeel comfortable about having
emotions and having struggles.
(08:24):
And so I just want to thank youfor that.
That's, it's incredible.
Dr. Jessi Gold (08:27):
Thank you.
Someone asked me what I feellike when I talk about this
stuff and, sometimes I feel badthat I even have to be thanked
for doing it.
And I know that's a weird thingto say, but I just, I get it,
because I know what role modelsexist for people who have talked
about some of this stuff openly,and it's part of why I've
consciously made the decision todo it.
But sometimes I'm just I wish itwas boring.
(08:50):
I wish that me having said I'mon meds, or that I've been
depressed, or that I've beenburned out I'm the thousandth
person who's done that inmedicine, instead of I don't
know, top 20 or something, and Ithink that It would be nice.
I'm hoping we get there whereenough of us feel okay talking
about it, that I don't have tobe thanked for it.
But I, in the meantime, I'mhappy to be a trailblazer of
(09:12):
sorts in this conversation,because I've done enough of the
processing to be able to sharemy story, like not everybody
can, not everybody will everwant to, but we do need some
people just like we do athletes,just like we do.
Celebrities just like we dowhatever other extra group you
want to include like we all needthe people who like break it
down and say Oh, turns out wehave this too.
(09:35):
And I'm happy to be one of them.
I just sometimes like whenpeople say thanks, I'm like, I
get it.
And I wish I didn't have to bethanked for it.
Dr. Elise Fallucco (09:43):
Yeah, no, and it's such a good point.
It's funny, because I think asDoctors, as people in health
care were one of the last peopleto open up and to be vulnerable.
And, just with the Olympicshaving recently happened, I
think about Coco Gauff.
I think about Michael Phelpsand, other incredible athletes
performing at a high level.
Simone Biles, like who are openabout their own mental health
(10:05):
struggle and how empowering thatis for other people.
And yet, as you point out, wedon't have a lot of us in
medicine.
Who talk about this.
So another reason to thank youfor for pushing our field
forward.
So before we close, do you haveany final pieces of advice about
either recognizing burnout orwhat to do when you see burnout
(10:25):
in yourself?
Dr. Jessi Gold (10:26):
Yeah, first of all I let me thank the audience
for what they do because I don'tthink that we get thanked enough
in the workplace like it's whywe need to remind ourselves
because like I'm a psychiatrist.
My patients don't thank me verymuch.
I think because they don't thinkthey're supposed to.
I don't know, but it doesn'thappen very often because of
boundaries or something.
And so we Get in this placewhere we can't we don't realize
(10:49):
we're helping people, even thetiny places that we're helping
people.
And so I hope that the peoplelistening know that their jobs
are really hard.
We wouldn't exist in a lot ofspaces without them.
And I'm grateful for what theydo.
And that at the same time, ifthe work that they do is
impacting their life, it should.
There's a quote that I like thatI'm going to totally butcher,
(11:10):
but maybe you have it writtendown because your face looks
like you do.
Yes.
Dr. Elise Fallucco (11:14):
This is this the Rachel Remmer one?
Yeah, yes.
Oh, or Remen.
So Dr.
Rachel Naomi Remen says theexpectation that we can be
immersed in suffering and lossdaily and not be touched by it
is as unrealistic as expectingto be able to walk through water
without getting wet.
Dr. Jessi Gold (11:35):
It's in so many ways, it's like the air that we
breathe is challenging.
Of course, we're going to havetrouble breathing.
we don't view it like that.
We view it like somebody made amistake doing that, or somebody
is not like living up toexpectations by Having their job
affect them but like the stuffthat we do should affect us it
(11:56):
should not be commonplace to seea kid struggle or see a kid be
hurt or See a kid who has traumaor listen to a parent who's
really worried about their childLike whatever you want to say
insert challenge here shove amental health visit into ten
minutes that's not easy.
That's hard.
It's going to affect you and donot beat yourself up for that
(12:18):
You Take care of yourself forthat.
Dr. Elise Fallucco (12:22):
Thank you.
I just like to the people in theback, what you're doing is hard.
It's legitimately hard andchallenging.
And it's like walking throughwater, of course, is going to
make you wet.
Get help when you need to getsupport.
You deserve it just as much aseverybody around us.
So give yourself permission totake time and to get out.
And you had said somethingreally nice in your book.
(12:44):
you talk about these reallyinteresting patient vignettes of
other healthcare workers who arestruggling and their experiences
of coming to see you and howhard that is in one scene,
you're talking to a characterwho's a PGY three resident who's
on medical leave to take care ofmental health problems.
And is feeling bad, like who'scovering for me and while I'm
(13:04):
out, what are people thinkingabout me and how is this going
to affect my career and, all theanxiety thoughts just spinning
and you in the book write, youknow, right now you're taking
care of yourself and, quote,instead of failing in your job,
you're focused on getting betterand which over time will make
you better able to do your joband make you a better, more
(13:25):
empathetic doctor and leader.
And I've loved that so much andit's, there's so much truth in
it.
Thank you for that.
Thank you for all of this.
Yeah, I
Dr. Jessi Gold (13:35):
wish we framed getting help like that.
I think about therapy like that.
I go every week.
Am I, Am I?
In a 10 out of 10 crisis rightnow?
No, but does it make me betterat my job?
Yes.
And therapy training andpsychiatry training tends to
think a little bit more likethat than other fields in
medicine.
And we all can benefit fromlearning more about ourselves.
We all could benefit from takingtime to take care of ourselves.
(13:57):
Cause if we can't take care ofourselves, how are we supposed
to take care of other people?
When we talk about culturechange, that's what we mean.
That this is part of being agood leader, that this is part
of being a good doctor, thatthis is part of being a good
mom, friend, sister, whateveryou want to put in there.
It's all part of it.
(14:17):
Yes,
Dr. Elise Fallucco (14:18):
absolutely.
Thank you.
And for those of us who arelistening again, Dr.
Jessi Gold's book, coming out inOctober, 2024 is called, How Do
You Feel?
One Doctor's Search for Humanityin Medicine And I hope you guys
will all check it out.
It is a fantastic read.
I've read through it twice nowand I'm still laughing and at
other times crying and thenhighlighting and underlining
(14:38):
like somebody who's a littleobsessed about reading, which I
am.
It's beautifully written inaddition to being a really
important topic.
So thank you so much for yourtime, for your expertise, and
for all the work you are doing,Dr.
Jessi Gold, to change theculture of healthcare for the
better.
Dr. Jessi Gold (14:52):
Thanks for having me, and I hope people
pick up the book and feel thesame that you do, and I would
love to hear if they do on mysocials or wherever.
Dr. Elise Fallucco (15:01):
And you're available at Dr.
Jessi Gold on all of theplatforms and all of the all the
platforms.
Everybody just check out ourshow notes and we'll have some
more detailed information abouthow to access the book and
access Dr.
Jessi Gold.
And as a brief
recap of the highlights from our episode.
We talked about the importanceof checking in with yourself and
really asking yourself, how doyou feel.
(15:23):
And Dr.
Gold also shared recommendationsabout how to counter our natural
tendency to focus on thenegative by practicing two
things.
One self-compassion.
And to gratitude.
And I want to thank all of ourpsyched for paeds listeners who
have reached out.
And shared personal stories andquestions related to burnout.
(15:43):
And this is inspired us to do another episode next week, where
we talk about specific exercisesand tools.
That might help you recognizesigns of burnout and more
importantly, take steps to tryto correct things if needed.
Thank you so much for listening.
And we'll see you next week.
welcome back to Psyched4Peds, the child
mental health podcast forpediatric clinicians, helping
you help kids.
I'm your host, Dr.
Elise Fallucco, childpsychiatrist and mom.
So we're continuing ourconversation about burnout in
healthcare with Dr.
Jessi gold, chief wellnessofficer at the university of
(00:41):
Tennessee health system,psychiatrist and author of the
book.
How do you feel?
One doctor's search for humanityin medicine.
In our last episode with Dr.
Gold, we talked about how torecognize signs of burnout.
And now the real question forthis episode is what do we do
when we recognize that we orsomeone we love is burned out.
(01:04):
I'm looking for solutions.
Life hacks pro tips to help usdeal and survive in healthcare.
Dr.
Jessi gold.
What would you recommend?
Dr. Jessi Gold (01:15):
So disclaimer, whenever I talk about individual
solutions, people want to punchme in the face because The
system is a big problem.
And I think they think when I'mtalking about an individual
solution that I'm notacknowledging that the system is
a big problem.
I chose the career and thecareer path I have to attempt to
fix the system.
(01:37):
But in the meantime, most of thepeople listening can't fix the
system.
It's not their job.
It involves the government.
It involves insurance companies.
These are big,, big monolithicindustries that, we're fighting
for these things to changemedicine.
but inherently, if you don'twant to quit, which is an option
by the way, but if you don'twant to quit, you have to figure
(01:58):
out how to fit in an existingmold, which is the existing
culture and the existing sort ofsystem problems you have to have
faith and hope that someone'staking your feedback and
listening, that someone like meis working on that stuff in
parallel, but that stuff takestime.
And so in the meantime, shouldyou want to stay in the field,
you do have to do individualthings.
(02:21):
So the individual things thatI've seen be helpful, One is
actually paying attention to howyou feel.
It is cheesy, it's the title ofmy book for a reason, but
really, we spend so much time onother people that we don't even
pause to do a self check in, andif we did, we would notice stuff
earlier.
Whatever those symptoms are foryou, or whatever those things
(02:43):
that might be changed for you.
So sometimes I'm like, how did Isleep?
How am I interacting with mypeers and colleagues?
How mad am I at my emails?
Whatever that is, right?
I'm not saying do that every twominutes.
I'm saying like once a weekwould be nice just to make sure
that you actually are checkingin with yourself and
acknowledging your humanity inthis situation.
Another thing that can be reallyhelpful is our brains
(03:05):
evolutionarily are designed toremember the bad thing and to
pick out the bad thing, right?
So we learned if we ate apoisonous berry and it made us
sick not to eat that berryagain.
And so our brain was likepoisonous berry today, poisonous
berry today.
All I did was eat a poisonousberry today.
And so our brains are like,basically supposed to tell us
all the things we do wrong overand over, but in the way that
(03:28):
it, manifests in somebody who'sa perfectionist is not good.
And so there's two ways tocombat that one is self
compassion, which is probablythe most important thing for
anybody in medicine, I have tobe gentle and kind to myself and
say nicer things to myself.
Not, if I burn out, I'm ahorrible doctor.
If I burn out, this week wasreally hard.
(03:48):
I totally get it.
Be nicer to yourself and theother thing in that same vein is
like Trying to pick out the goodstuff in your day.
There's a thing called ThreeGood Things you can get that
from Duke online they have aprogram for it that's a text
program..
But if you don't go that way,you can literally just write
down the three good things ofyour day.
What it does is force you toremember that even though that
(04:09):
you had the poisonous berry,maybe, That like someone said
something nice to you or apatient complimented you or you
help someone today or whateverthat is.
And so you're like, you're leftwith more of a balance.
And I think we really need thebalance so that we don't just
go, I'm a failure.
I'm a failure.
I'm a failure.
Nobody wants.
And then on top of that, I'm notsleeping.
I'm not functioning.
I'm going to work sick.
I'm going to burn out.
(04:29):
There's just no way.
And so those are a couple thingsthat I think are.
Easy life hacks that have workedfor me have worked for patients
and I will say sometimes peopleDon't like a woo woo thing and
think that like the three goodthings or Things like that might
feel a little like there's noway there's tons of evidence on
that You can see it in my bookBut you can also see all of the
(04:49):
stuff by Brian Sexton who madethe program they've studied
this.
Dr. Elise Fallucco (04:54):
The first thing that you can do to survive
in this culture or continuenavigating in this culture is
pay attention to how you'refeeling.
How's your sleep?
How's your mood?
How's your energy?
How are you responding to yourinbox?
Or for me, I think the tippingpoint was like, how do I feel at
the end of the day?
How, of course we're tired, butcan I deal with bedtime?
(05:15):
I get for me, it got to thepoint where my sweet little guy
who was probably, six or sevenyears Old at the time was like,
mommy, it's time for our minute.
It's time for you to tuck me inand we talk.
And I was so tired and just donetalking that I wanted to avoid
it.
I'm like, maybe if I fall asleepon the couch down here, he won't
(05:35):
notice and he'll forget.
And And I feel so bad about itin hindsight, and I again, in
hindsight, I realized yeah, thatwas a symptom, that something
was not great, that, thesethings that are supposed to be
life giving and the prioritiesof my life, like family, were
taking a back seat.
So number one, ask yourself howyou're feeling, be honest about
(05:56):
it.
And if you can have some reallife people in, who can reflect
and ask you those questions andwho you can be honest with,
whether it's your therapist oryour friends or your family or
somebody.
Number two was fight our naturaltendency to focus on the
negative things by practicingself compassion, like giving
ourselves some grace, beingnicer to yourself.
(06:18):
And then finally three, try toconsciously get your brain to
pay attention to the positivethings in your day.
One of the things that my familydoes when we try to have dinner
together on the few times thatwe don't have 8, 000 activities
and are actually able to sit ata table and eat a meal.
We do this thing called rosebudand thorn, and it's not exactly
(06:39):
three good things, but it'swhere you talk about, the rose,
the good, the best thing in yourday, the bud.
We interpret that as somethingelse that's pretty good in your
day, but not quite a rose.
And then finally the thorn.
Something that's challengingthat you're dealing with.
And we go around the table andeach of the kids and I and my
husband talk about that.
And it's a nice way to reconnectand also to try to remember
(07:01):
again, like the easiest thingthat comes to my mind every
single day is the thorn.
I'm like, Oh, I can go on and onabout that thorn.
Let me tell you who annoyed metoday.
But anyway, to the point thatour minds tend to focus on the
negative.
Dr. Jessi Gold (07:14):
And we like have a culture of that too, right?
I think there's camaraderie in,for lack of a better word,
bitching about some stuff in theworkplace, like we like that.
It's just when that takes overand you can't do anything else,
like it's really hard to go intowork knowing that your only sort
of solace is to complain to afriend, right?
I think you need the friend, butit'd be nice if you talked about
(07:36):
something completely not relatedto work as well.
Dr. Elise Fallucco (07:40):
Exactly.
The other solace in going towork, it makes me think of, we
had a drawer full of chocolateat one of the clinics that I
worked at,
Dr. Jessi Gold (07:46):
that
Dr. Elise Fallucco (07:47):
one of my colleagues brought, and I was
like, I can do it today becauseof that drawer full of
chocolate.
Dr. Jessi Gold (07:52):
My admin has like a bunch of candy, and I'm
always like, are you trying tokill me inadvertently?
Because every time I walk by,it's really hard not to eat the
candy, but, oh my gosh.
Dr. Elise Fallucco (08:03):
It's like such a stress reliever.
We're not that we're endorsingthat by any means.
Okay.
You've done such a good jobabout de stigmatizing mental
health and being really openabout your own personal journey
and mental health journey.
You have written a memoir aboutyour own experience and
struggles helping more peoplefeel comfortable about having
emotions and having struggles.
(08:24):
And so I just want to thank youfor that.
That's, it's incredible.
Dr. Jessi Gold (08:27):
Thank you.
Someone asked me what I feellike when I talk about this
stuff and, sometimes I feel badthat I even have to be thanked
for doing it.
And I know that's a weird thingto say, but I just, I get it,
because I know what role modelsexist for people who have talked
about some of this stuff openly,and it's part of why I've
consciously made the decision todo it.
But sometimes I'm just I wish itwas boring.
(08:50):
I wish that me having said I'mon meds, or that I've been
depressed, or that I've beenburned out I'm the thousandth
person who's done that inmedicine, instead of I don't
know, top 20 or something, and Ithink that It would be nice.
I'm hoping we get there whereenough of us feel okay talking
about it, that I don't have tobe thanked for it.
But I, in the meantime, I'mhappy to be a trailblazer of
(09:12):
sorts in this conversation,because I've done enough of the
processing to be able to sharemy story, like not everybody
can, not everybody will everwant to, but we do need some
people just like we do athletes,just like we do.
Celebrities just like we dowhatever other extra group you
want to include like we all needthe people who like break it
down and say Oh, turns out wehave this too.
(09:35):
And I'm happy to be one of them.
I just sometimes like whenpeople say thanks, I'm like, I
get it.
And I wish I didn't have to bethanked for it.
Dr. Elise Fallucco (09:43):
Yeah, no, and it's such a good point.
It's funny, because I think asDoctors, as people in health
care were one of the last peopleto open up and to be vulnerable.
And, just with the Olympicshaving recently happened, I
think about Coco Gauff.
I think about Michael Phelpsand, other incredible athletes
performing at a high level.
Simone Biles, like who are openabout their own mental health
(10:05):
struggle and how empowering thatis for other people.
And yet, as you point out, wedon't have a lot of us in
medicine.
Who talk about this.
So another reason to thank youfor for pushing our field
forward.
So before we close, do you haveany final pieces of advice about
either recognizing burnout orwhat to do when you see burnout
(10:25):
in yourself?
Dr. Jessi Gold (10:26):
Yeah, first of all I let me thank the audience
for what they do because I don'tthink that we get thanked enough
in the workplace like it's whywe need to remind ourselves
because like I'm a psychiatrist.
My patients don't thank me verymuch.
I think because they don't thinkthey're supposed to.
I don't know, but it doesn'thappen very often because of
boundaries or something.
And so we Get in this placewhere we can't we don't realize
(10:49):
we're helping people, even thetiny places that we're helping
people.
And so I hope that the peoplelistening know that their jobs
are really hard.
We wouldn't exist in a lot ofspaces without them.
And I'm grateful for what theydo.
And that at the same time, ifthe work that they do is
impacting their life, it should.
There's a quote that I like thatI'm going to totally butcher,
(11:10):
but maybe you have it writtendown because your face looks
like you do.
Yes.
Dr. Elise Fallucco (11:14):
This is this the Rachel Remmer one?
Yeah, yes.
Oh, or Remen.
So Dr.
Rachel Naomi Remen says theexpectation that we can be
immersed in suffering and lossdaily and not be touched by it
is as unrealistic as expectingto be able to walk through water
without getting wet.
Dr. Jessi Gold (11:35):
It's in so many ways, it's like the air that we
breathe is challenging.
Of course, we're going to havetrouble breathing.
we don't view it like that.
We view it like somebody made amistake doing that, or somebody
is not like living up toexpectations by Having their job
affect them but like the stuffthat we do should affect us it
(11:56):
should not be commonplace to seea kid struggle or see a kid be
hurt or See a kid who has traumaor listen to a parent who's
really worried about their childLike whatever you want to say
insert challenge here shove amental health visit into ten
minutes that's not easy.
That's hard.
It's going to affect you and donot beat yourself up for that
(12:18):
You Take care of yourself forthat.
Dr. Elise Fallucco (12:22):
Thank you.
I just like to the people in theback, what you're doing is hard.
It's legitimately hard andchallenging.
And it's like walking throughwater, of course, is going to
make you wet.
Get help when you need to getsupport.
You deserve it just as much aseverybody around us.
So give yourself permission totake time and to get out.
And you had said somethingreally nice in your book.
(12:44):
you talk about these reallyinteresting patient vignettes of
other healthcare workers who arestruggling and their experiences
of coming to see you and howhard that is in one scene,
you're talking to a characterwho's a PGY three resident who's
on medical leave to take care ofmental health problems.
And is feeling bad, like who'scovering for me and while I'm
(13:04):
out, what are people thinkingabout me and how is this going
to affect my career and, all theanxiety thoughts just spinning
and you in the book write, youknow, right now you're taking
care of yourself and, quote,instead of failing in your job,
you're focused on getting betterand which over time will make
you better able to do your joband make you a better, more
(13:25):
empathetic doctor and leader.
And I've loved that so much andit's, there's so much truth in
it.
Thank you for that.
Thank you for all of this.
Yeah, I
Dr. Jessi Gold (13:35):
wish we framed getting help like that.
I think about therapy like that.
I go every week.
Am I, Am I?
In a 10 out of 10 crisis rightnow?
No, but does it make me betterat my job?
Yes.
And therapy training andpsychiatry training tends to
think a little bit more likethat than other fields in
medicine.
And we all can benefit fromlearning more about ourselves.
We all could benefit from takingtime to take care of ourselves.
(13:57):
Cause if we can't take care ofourselves, how are we supposed
to take care of other people?
When we talk about culturechange, that's what we mean.
That this is part of being agood leader, that this is part
of being a good doctor, thatthis is part of being a good
mom, friend, sister, whateveryou want to put in there.
It's all part of it.
(14:17):
Yes,
Dr. Elise Fallucco (14:18):
absolutely.
Thank you.
And for those of us who arelistening again, Dr.
Jessi Gold's book, coming out inOctober, 2024 is called, How Do
You Feel?
One Doctor's Search for Humanityin Medicine And I hope you guys
will all check it out.
It is a fantastic read.
I've read through it twice nowand I'm still laughing and at
other times crying and thenhighlighting and underlining
(14:38):
like somebody who's a littleobsessed about reading, which I
am.
It's beautifully written inaddition to being a really
important topic.
So thank you so much for yourtime, for your expertise, and
for all the work you are doing,Dr.
Jessi Gold, to change theculture of healthcare for the
better.
Dr. Jessi Gold (14:52):
Thanks for having me, and I hope people
pick up the book and feel thesame that you do, and I would
love to hear if they do on mysocials or wherever.
Dr. Elise Fallucco (15:01):
And you're available at Dr.
Jessi Gold on all of theplatforms and all of the all the
platforms.
Everybody just check out ourshow notes and we'll have some
more detailed information abouthow to access the book and
access Dr.
Jessi Gold.
And as a brief
recap of the highlights from our episode.
We talked about the importanceof checking in with yourself and
really asking yourself, how doyou feel.
(15:23):
And Dr.
Gold also shared recommendationsabout how to counter our natural
tendency to focus on thenegative by practicing two
things.
One self-compassion.
And to gratitude.
And I want to thank all of ourpsyched for paeds listeners who
have reached out.
And shared personal stories andquestions related to burnout.
(15:43):
And this is inspired us to do another episode next week, where
we talk about specific exercisesand tools.
That might help you recognizesigns of burnout and more
importantly, take steps to tryto correct things if needed.
Thank you so much for listening.
And we'll see you next week.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!