5. The Tell-Tale Heart

How many Edgar Allen Poe Easter eggs have you spotted hidden in the show? This week, Stacey and Lindsay chatted with Production Designer Laurin Kelsey about sets, locations, colors, props and hidden nods to our boy, Poe.

Tune in next time for another interview and new deep dives into the The Fall of the House of Usher on Netflix!

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Straw Hut Media. Hi, I'mStacy Nye and I'm Lindsay Jones. Welcome
to episode five of Psychoanalyzing the Fallof the House of Usher. Today we
are talking to production designer Lauren Kelsey. We're going to have a great show.

(00:22):
She tells us so many interesting thingsabout how the living space is designed.
Flannagan Easter Eggs, Poe easter Eggs, It's amazing. Stay tuned.
Our session starts now. Let's doa recap on episode five. There are

(00:46):
some major plot points of the TelltaleHeart. That's the name of the episode,
so we know right away this episodeis about victory and spoiler alert let
me just say that if you haven'tseen it yet, turn us off,
go watch the episode, come backand listen. And also a content warning

(01:07):
for suicide, so be prepared.So major plot points of this episode Frederick
brings Marella home, what a bitchTamerlane is, and a whole thing on
Alessandra and Victorine. Plus a coupleof side notes. I'm going to add
these side notes. First, realquick, Dupon admits that there never was

(01:30):
an informant. He just said thatto try to stir up some trouble,
and he thought that might help hiscase. He never wanted anybody to get
killed. Madeline and Roderick plot againstRufus Griswold with young Dupon, so we're
gonna see more about that. Pimhas found multiple pictures of Verna, basically

(01:53):
in connection with the three kids deaths, and Madeline Roderick finally identify her as
the same person from New Year's Evenineteen eighty strange that she still looks exactly
the same. And Roderick is constantlytalking to the brick wall in the basement,
so we don't know why he's doingthat. It's weird. He might

(02:15):
just be talking to himself, buthe's sitting in that same spot looking at
the brick wall, wondering what's goingon? All right? So Frederick brings
Marilla home. This is weird.She should be in a treatment center.
He thinks he can take care ofher there, despite the doctor saying not
to do it. He gets herroom ready for her return, and he

(02:38):
guides Leonora on how to survive theworld as an usher, stressing that they
cannot trust anyone in the world,including their mother, who looked them in
the eyes and lied about where shewas going that night. Yikes, there's
more to come with that, believeyou me. Next, what a bitch
Tamerlane is. So she and Billare arguing. He keeps stressing that they

(03:04):
need to postpone the launch because Tammy'snot sleeping. She's unwilling. She is
extremely belittling to him. She explainsthat he is basically just the figurehead.
He was chosen as her partner andhusband off of a spreadsheet because of his
good looks and nothing more. Shethen is getting a little paranoid. She
accuses him of sleeping with their latestsex actress, which is Verna, and

(03:30):
he walks out. She's about tocall him back and then does it.
So yeah, and then there's thiswhole craziness with Alessandra and Victorine. So
Alessandra finally finds out that Victorine hasscheduled the surgery with Verna actually, and
she decides to pull out. She'shorrified that Victorine has done this. She

(03:53):
realizes that Victorine forged her signature onthe paperwork to the medical board. She
goes to leave, threatening to tellthe authorities basically, and Victorine picks up
what looks like a marble bookend andthrows it at her. We assume she's
missed, because next we see Victorineleaving voicemail messages for Alissandra, who is

(04:15):
apparently not calling her back, andshe keeps hearing this clicking noise in her
office that she cannot find. It'skind of tormenting her. She hears it.
She's tearing apart her office looking forit, in fact, and then
after Roderick considers suicide and chickens out, he visits Victorine to apologize, but

(04:38):
the music is really loud, andhe asks her to turn it off,
and when she does, then wecan hear that clicking again, and now
Roderick can hear it too, whichis I think is kind of interesting.
It's the heartmesh clicking basically, youknow, the whole way in which that
device works. Then we go backand we see a flashback of the argus

(05:00):
with Alessandra, and this time wesee what really happened. When Victorine threw
the marble paperweight. It actually hitAlessandra in the head, killing her almost
instantly. Victorine picks out her phoneto begin to call the police, and
then, like all good villains do, disconnects the call. She thinks better,
Oh, yes, I've just murderedher. I can't call the police.

(05:23):
Then we see the source of theclicking. So after killing Alessandra,
Victorine actually opened up her chest andimplanted her new heartmesh and leaves her in
this gruesome, bloody mess on theattager in the office. She's like a
rag doll sitting there, and soVictorine is sounding crazy. Roderick comes in,

(05:46):
sees this mess. He tries totalk some sense into her. He
can't, and Victorine says something like, well, we need a better heart,
and then she stabs herself and thenit's boom, the fall of the
House of Usher. Your favorite partof the episodes, lindsay, Oh my
god, Yeah, the last fifteenminutes of this I think the only way

(06:10):
to describe it are absolutely harrowing.Like they're just they're awe, they're hard.
Yeah, I mean you wonder right, like, oh, well she
threw that maybe she missed. Shemust have missed, yes, you know,
although you probably know better that shedidn't miss but she did not miss.
No, And you don't expect tosee Alessandra with her chest open and

(06:32):
the heart mesh in there propped upon the cabinet. It's wild and crazy.
I mean, I give the actor'sa lot of credit in this particular
episode because they have to get tothis absolutely extreme, you know, operatic

(06:53):
place of like, you know whatsounds like a good idea right now,
why don't I cut open her thisperson I just accidentally killed. I'll throw
this thing in there. Oh wait, no, I've got a better idea.
I'll stab myself in a way totry and help that out. Like
that. That's a lot. Well, they all kind of deteriorate. Actually,

(07:13):
I'm thinking about that because Camille didn'tdeteriorate at the end mentally, like
she's like always large and in charge. Camille. She goes to that you
know lab, and she's gonna seewhat's happening, and so she's not really
losing it. But look, Victorinehas lost it, Leo has lost it.
I guess Perry didn't quite lose it. But you know, some of

(07:35):
them are really losing touch with realityhere. Certainly that's what Victorine has done.
They're definitely all making really bad choices. I think that's the one thing
they all definitely have in common andus you pointed out by the way in
the recap, Victorine could have justcalled the police and been like, oh
my god, you guys, there'sbeen a terrible accident. But instead Victory's

(07:58):
like, you know what, letme just hang up the phone and cut
her heart open and let's see ifI can fix it that way instead,
Like that seems like a reasonable planof action. I love that moment.
Yeah, listen, if an accidenthappens, it's worth it to just own
up to it. Please do notcut people's hearts out as an alternative to
just being honest. This is whywe're here, right, Life lessons from

(08:22):
Stacey and Lindsay. That's right.Yes, don't kill people number one.
Please don't know please, But we'regoing to hear more about how this episode
is put together. Why don't youtell us about that, Lindsay, Boy,
I'm excited about today's guest. Today'sguest is Lauren Kelsey. Lauren Kelsey
is a production designer and art directorfrom Vancouver Island, BC in Canada.

(08:45):
She has been nominated for two LeoAwards for production design on two other Mike
Flannagan series Midnight Mass and The MidnightClub, as well as art director for
projects like Brahms, The Boy Too, Chesapeake Shores, and pop Star World
Tour, which I'm sure is probablyanother Mike flannagain creation. But we are
so excited to have her with ustoday. Lauren. Thank you so much

(09:09):
for being here. Lauren, welcome, and thank you so much for being
with us today. Thank you forhaving me. Happy to be here,
excellent. We are just loving theshow so much, and we are here
to talk about the Telltale Heart today, which was I mean, every time

(09:31):
the episode ends, Lindsay and Isay to each other that was outrageous,
and it just keeps getting more andmore outrageous as it goes along. Yeah,
in terms of putting together to productiondesign for this show, first of
all, the design is absolutely beautiful, and I just want to make sure
that I say that upfront that I'mjust continually knocked out by how like all

(09:54):
of the different interiors and xteriors areso they seem like the show sort of
a visual feast, and you knowwhat I mean, Like it's like kind
of over the top in terms ofvisual detail and all sorts of great things
to see, and in particular,there seems to be a real nod to

(10:16):
sort of Gothic architecture, particularly inthe exteriors of the usher's homes. And
am I right in understanding that allof that was built, that that's not
like stuff you found places? Right? Yeah, we had a few found
locations, but I would say atleast seventy five percent of the show was

(10:37):
all built on stages. We hadsomething like five stages running almost continuously changing
over sets for the run of ourshow, So it was quite a few
builds, including exteriors, and sowhen you were imagining those locations and sort
of like trying to figure out whatthey would look like, what were sort
of your reference points and things thatyou used influences in order to think up

(11:03):
how they would look, well,I think it was a really challenging show
that had to have quite a fewreferences, because I think there's a lot
of really lovely shows where you havelike one world and it's very like Succinct
and you're in one time period andone let's call it class genre, class
system, whereas something like this wespanned multiple time periods, everything from the

(11:28):
uber wit rich to extreme poverty andsort of everything in between. So it
was a harder sort of thing tojust look at one world reference, if
that makes sense. So I thinkthere's sort of like two basic worlds I
was sort of referencing and looking at. And one was period and that had
a lot to do with Edgar AllanPoe and his original stories and the Gothic

(11:50):
architecture and the Victorian architecture, andthen another was anything modern. And obviously
that's a much wider array of referencesin terms of modern architecture and all different
types of varieties, because the kidsall have a very specific personality, so
it's not just one sort of glassand metal modern world. There's a modern

(12:11):
world for each of the characters,and their homes and their workplaces all fit
into these individual modern, more luxuriousspaces, if you will. Yeah,
I can totally see that. Andeverything felt really really specific from not you

(12:31):
know, like obviously you know,the furniture, the lighting, the coloring
of each person's space, Like Iwas saying the other day that Camille space
was very white and gray like herhair, right, and Leo space was
much darker, and Tamerlane space haslike kind of a golden hue about it.

(12:54):
And so can you tell us alittle bit about how each space was
specific develop for the characters. Yeah, I love that, and I love
that you picked up on that becauseMike, when we first started going through
the script, came and said,Okay, there's one thing that's really important
to me. I want to giveevery one of the children a color.
And my first thought was, ohGod, how am I going to do

(13:18):
that? Because there's already so manyworlds and times, feelings and moods to
integrate. And I think one ofthe biggest things for me, one of
the most key things to any seriesis that it feels cohesive, right,
So I was quite concerned that byadding in a really wide variety of colors,
we would end up feeling really clutteredwith all of the textures and the

(13:39):
times and the materials and just everythingall together. Yeah. So actually sat
down with Michael Famiori. He's thedirector of photography and the other co direct
like the co director with Mike,and he's amazing, and we sat down
and went, Okay, how dowe take this really awesome idea and this
really like beautiful other layer and makeit not feel like too much? So

(14:03):
we started. I pitched several differenttones to the palette to Michael, and
we kind of landed in like ajewel tone world where we thought, okay,
great, you know, Perry's red, but it's a scarlet red,
Tamberline's green but it's emerald green,Frederick's blue, Victory's orange, and Leo's

(14:24):
yellow, and Camille is actually silverlike white gray silver. And then from
there we said, okay, youknow, we have all the layers of
sets, costumes, hair and makeup, lighting, who does the heavy lifting
on the colors and who sort ofsteps back, and we kind of landed
on a world where the sets areall muted tones, so there's subtle colors

(14:48):
as possible to give a little bitmore of just a neutral palette. Also
so that then with you know,accents in the set deck, you can
kind of punch it up a little. And then also costumes, Terry Anderson's
fantastic, and Terry layered in colorthrough his work. And then we had
hair and makeup like Camille's hair.And then last, but definitely not least,
Michael with his lighting and the lightingtold a big story for each character,

(15:11):
so their spaces have a naturalistic feelsort of in the beginning, and
then as they get more entrenched intheir story and the psychosis attached to their
story. You'll feel all the lightssaturate and it'll get really really vivid.
And so for us, like inthe sets, it was about providing practical

(15:33):
sources for Michael's lighting. Later,you know, where does that green light
come from? For tamberlines, It'sa neon sign outside the window that we
built and things like that, Andso it's a very multi layered process in
the spaces. And that's just thecolor side of it, right. You
mentioned this point about the color becomesmore saturated as things kind of heat up,

(15:56):
And I was rewatching episode five nightand notice that. And I might
have noticed it before, but reallynoticed it yesterday. How you know,
as Victorien is kind of becoming moreand more irrational and you know, losing
touch with reality, that all ofa sudden it got very very red in
the room or orange maybe as you'resaying, yeah, yeah, it's leaning

(16:21):
into orange, but definitely yeah,yeah, that's all that all comes through
from. I mean Michael and Mikeobviously. Yeah, that sort of saturation
and build up of color, andthen things like Victorine. You'll notice in
her office she has sort of everything'svery concrete with her. It is concrete
and glass like Camille, but theconcrete is much warmer toned. And then

(16:41):
in her office she has those sortof copper colored backlit shelves that come off
like with a bit of an orangeglow. So then Michael can do something
like and Mike can do like alight orange glow in the room. And
then as it gets more intense,when she starts to hear the sound,
you'll feel those come up a littlebit and play off with the walls and
things. Yeah, it's really interesting. I work in live theater, and

(17:03):
so I'm really attuned to looking at, you know, sort of design ideas
around it. This is one ofthe only television shows I can really think
of where I was actually aware ofsort of lighting cues, Like as Stacy
was describing that moment with Victory andwhere the orange light sort of intensifies and
then goes away. It really feltalmost like live theater in that moment that

(17:27):
it was really sort of puching thattheatricality was really fascinating. Yeah. Yeah,
and I love that about it,And I think that comes from sort
of three prongs. Mike, who'svery obviously attuned to giving the accents and
the punctuating the right moments and knowingexactly where those rises and falls are,

(17:48):
and then Michael for being able toreally you know, bring it to life,
and then me for being able togive like the opportunities to do the
lighting the way that is going togive the most punch. I think one
episode that I find very theatrical forthe lighting because my background's theater too.
Oh great, So one moment Ireally love is Perry's party in the warehouse.

(18:08):
Yeah, we spend a long timetalking about what coloring we would have
for the lighting, because there's hiscolors red. It's mask of the red
death. But then you have Vernacome in in a big red cloak,
so when she enters, we're inblue, so that you have the contrast
of her showing up. Then whenwe go into the bedroom and she's undressed

(18:29):
and she's they're having that moment,that conversation of her basically saying like,
you can stop this, you canchange, YadA YadA. The room is
saturated back in the red, andhe goes back to the party, we're
kind of in a red blue.And then when the water starts, we're
full red again. So there's verykey moments of like this is when it's
getting dangerous, which I love.Yeah, there's this sort of theatrical lighting

(18:51):
that is part of the show.But then there's also this lighting that I
find super fascinating. And it's strangelyI kept sort of it kept making reminding
me of The Exorcist and the lightingof the Exorcist in a way which was
in the Exorcist. There are eithersuper sort of like golden dim moments when
we're interior, right, which remindsme of the study, which I want

(19:15):
to ask you about in the second, but then outside moments are almost sort
of like super washed out gray sortof like almost as if they're overexposed in
a certain way. And I wasjust curious, when you're designing colors,
are you are you thinking about like, Okay, this is going to have

(19:40):
a golden lighting versus this is goingto be super blasted white. Is that
part of your process? Yeah?Yeah, absolutely. And Michael and I
we work together on three different shows, and we're pretty used to doing a
lot of camera tests. So everycolor, every wallpaper, every texture,
we take it out of the studioand we can test it so that we

(20:00):
can look at the light. Thelighting that he's going to put on it
in post production as well. Yeah, because he's got his filters and presets
that he's going to use, aswell as him explaining what kind of lighting
he wants to use on the day. From the practicals, we also camera
test all the practicals, you know, is that shade too warm? Is
that shade too dark? Like?He's very good at looking at those details

(20:23):
ahead of time so that it isconsistent and he can apply the filters and
the looks and the lighting that heand Mike want without not to the detriment
of the set. Yeah, that'samazing. It's very interesting. Like,
you learn a lot. I think. You know, there's you can camera
test wall paper, you know,fifty times a year, but it's always
going to do something different. It'sthe type of camera, it's the type

(20:45):
of light, it's the type oftexture of the paper. Like, it's
it's so interesting and you learn somuch. I think it's a really great
part of the process. Wow,that's so cool. You might have noticed
that I've been stalking your Instagram andso you in a good way. Yeah,
in a good way. Only ina good way. I'm a psychologist.
I would never do it in acreepy way, but aside from all

(21:08):
of the horror stories about psychologists whokill their patients. Sorry, but anyway,
so I feel much better now.Yeah, Okay, So you posted
something recently about all of the Poereferences in all of the various sets,
and I'd love to hear more aboutthat. Oh yeah, I mean,
there's like so many layers of Poein this, the base layer being what

(21:32):
Mike wrote into the script, whichhas so many great references already, from
character names to specific lines and monologues, to the way that you shape the
characters. Like, there's a lotof Poe woven in from the get go.
I kind of feel like ours islike the as an art department.
Ours is a little bit like thelast layer of a cake, like the
last little icing on top, kindof a thing to something already so well

(21:56):
interwoven. So for the sets wewere trying, like I would say,
I've got two layers. The firstbase layer is like the actual reference and
research, which is about the architectureand making sure that the sets are paying
the right homage to their original stories. So, for example, Perry's party
the warehouse because it's the mask ofthe Red Death that's you know, Prince

(22:17):
Prospero locking everybody in and himself tohide from the black death or a plague.
And then in that hallway he hasall the rooms and there's the big
stained glass windows, and then deathobviously comes and visits them. But for
his space, we had the biglong like the whole point of the warehouse
was to make it sort of onelong, rectangular space that was reminiscent of

(22:40):
the hallway. At the end there'sthe big arch windows, which in the
end you see Freddy with the wreckingball. And then the amount of rooms
down the hallways, there's seven inthe story, we have twelve down the
total, but you end up withlike six and a half each side.
So there's there's little references and nodslike that nice and then there's the layers

(23:00):
that are kind of the fun onesto put at the very end, like
the number on the house of thestreet that Usher lives on is Poe's death
year, the year he died,or in the bar that's what I posted
on Instagram. There's stained glass windowsare all images that relate to a specific
post story. The Black Cat andthe Horse from Mendinger. I think it's

(23:22):
called things like that, or there'seven a framed photo of Poe up on
the bar. Things like that arekind of like little little nods, but
they're like last little touches. Thatis so cool. Yeah, yeah,
there's a lot. I mean,Poe has so much to work with.
It's I think like, in away, it's almost a shame that everything
was set in such a modern world, because there's only so much kind of

(23:44):
gothic touches and nods you can givewithout it feeling out of place, right
right, Well, Okay, now, I know you've hidden a bunch of
Poe references in your sets, butalso I've been sort of learning through the
internet that might plan again apparently comeswith his own line of props as well
that he shows up with. AndI have just this picture of him just

(24:07):
driving up to your house with atruck full of stuff on the back and
being like, Okay, Lauren,here's all my stuff from my previous shows.
Just drop this in wherever you want. I mean, I think the
biggest one I'm interested in is theOculus mirror, which clearly has the longest
history with it. Can you explainto us what the Oculus mirror is?
And also like talk about like whena person comes to you and says,

(24:33):
this is a thing that I haveand it's really important to me, and
just put it somewhere in the set, Like how do you deal with that?
What do you do? You say? That sounds great, and then
you find this. I mean it'shis show. It's Mike plan again,
right, yeah, all right,fine. I think it's fun like and
he's such a great fan following,Like I think he's never going to ask
for something that doesn't make sense.He's not. He's logical. He's too

(24:56):
like great at what he does toyou know, throw anything that it's going
to be silly. So I thinkthe Oculus Mayor is like a stunning piece.
It's so heavy, like ridiculously heavy. So it's always a question,
really where can we put it whereit's not going to like break the set.
So in the Midnight Club we putit in the secret basement. As

(25:17):
the last show I did with Mike, I think the show before that Midnight
Mass it was in the rec centerwhere Riley gets killed. And then for
Usher we were putting it in.It's in two places. It's in and
I don't know if it's really visibleenough because The first place we put it
was the basement of the Usher familyhome, but it's so dark down there.

(25:37):
Then afterwards, when we shot thenineteen seventy nine bar, it ended
up on the wall in the backhallway towards the bathrooms, which is nice
because when he's shooting Madeline and Rodericklike square from the front, you see
it framed between them, So that'sI think, a better spot to spot
it. That's awesome. Yeah,I mean I like that he does that
stuff, And we've done other thingswhen we've worked together, like on Midnight

(26:00):
Once he'd hired me and give methe scripts for the Midnight Club. We
hid the Midnight Club book in Riley'schildhood bedroom because he was the right age
to have read Christopher Pike novels.And then I want to say, in
the Midnight Club we actually hit abook of Midnight mass Like it's just fun,
Like it's nice to be able togive him nods and give the audience

(26:21):
something to look for and find.They get really driven to find those things
and so excited. Yeah, Imean, such great fans. Do fans
contact you to fans and be likeI spotted this mirror or I found this
book or do you get that kindof thing. I don't get those kind
of messages. I still get,Yeah, I get some fan messages for
sure, But people who are likepassionate about the horror genre or design or

(26:44):
Mike's work specifically, for sure,that's great. Yeah, they're always great.
I mean, like the thing isis, film is such a fun
medium, and I love design becauseit fills me up. But there's nothing
better than hearing that it lit someoneelse up, you know, Like that's
really like, what's the point Ifit's only for me, that's really not
enough. It's better to share itand then to have feedback that someone's excited

(27:07):
or enjoying it or passionate about itor inspires them in some way. That's
that's really what we do it for. Well, I think that the fans
are really into all of the setsand all of the particularly the I think
called it something the other day,but the flannagin you know, Easter eggs.
I think people you know, sothere's a lot of a lot of
things online about you know, theOculus Mirror, and I know in the

(27:32):
next episode that we're not talking aboutyet. There's a few wonderful references that
people are excited about. So whatwas your favorite part of doing the sets
for the show. Was it aparticular episode, was it a particular set,
was it a particular you know,mood you were trying to get across?
Overall it was it was such afun show. I mean a lot

(27:55):
of the time I get questions about, you know, why horror and why
this genre, and I think what'sso great about this show is it has
so much to design, like somany cool worlds, time periods, you
know, great spaces, great charactersthat I mean overall, I loved all
of it. I thought it wasall really really great to dig into.

(28:17):
But specifically my favorite was the Usher'schildhood home. Oh yeah, because that
home has a lot of layers toit and was quite a fun project because
it's written as a nineteen fifties suburbanhome on a suburban street. But what
we wanted to do is because thereal story, the fall of the House

(28:37):
of Usher, takes place in sucha beautiful Gothic mansion. It's creepy and
it's massive and everything, there hasto be a nod to that original house.
And then to give those nods tothe original po Usher house, that
big Gothic mansion was sort of likea very interesting combination to try to figure
out how to make that feel likea suburban home. And then the additional

(29:02):
layer is that they weren't very wealthyat the time, so not having a
lot of money meant the house couldn'tbe that grandiose, and obviously Gothic Victorianism
does have a lot of grandeur toit. So I thought that was a
really fun challenge and I was reallyhappy how it turned out, because it's
not a big space, but webuilt it in a way that felt like
an eighteen nineties kind of build thatthen had gotten some renovations in maybe the

(29:26):
thirties or forties, and that feltattainable for the Usher family at that time
period and still had some of theGothic Now it's like the fireplace is all
Gothic, the arched windows, theexterior especially hit some of the Gothic architecture.
But then to be able to putit in the context of suburbia and

(29:48):
not feel too out of place.You feel like you're on the outskirts of
the city, you're not in thecity, but it still kind of reads
and makes sense. So that wasthat was a hard one for me to
wrapped my head around, and Iwas happy with where we landed. And
then also just all the layers toit. Seeing in the fifties when it
was kind of optimistic and like lightand bright and everything was still pretty good,

(30:10):
to the sixties where it all startedto crumble, and then to the
present day being just a complete deterioratedversion of itself. Was really like fun
to kind of work through those differenttransitions that the house would go through because
it is kind of the only onethat has a character story, and Mike
usually does have a pretty central housein his work, so that really was

(30:32):
it for us, even though itdidn't play as much as his normal houses
do. Yeah, it's interesting thatthat's the setup at the beginning of episode
one, when we're entering that housein present day. It reminds me very
much of the opening of Citizen Kane, you know, in that way,
and that there's the massive house,but the house is almost too big,

(30:53):
it's too large, it's too oppressive, and that it's just isolating in that
way, which is really interesting.And then we get into that study,
which the more I watched the show, the more I'm completely in love with
that study. Oh good, Andmaybe it's because as a viewer I'm spending

(31:14):
the most time in that room becausewe go back to that room again and
again and again. But the gaslamps that are there, like today,
it occurred to me for the firsttime as I was watching it. I
was like, wait a minute,I get it. It's like it's like
a campfire. It's like I'm beingtold a ghost story by a campfire.
And that was the first time thatsort of hit me. And then like,

(31:36):
it's got this beautiful gothic architecture whichyou reference, but also because of
the natural lighting which seems real.Were they real gas lamps in there?
Yep, that's what I because Iwasn't sure if those were digital or not.
I'm now starting to question whether anythingis digital or not anymore. After
that, I know, and realfireplace, real functioning. But also like,

(32:00):
what's amazing about that room in allof the sort of usher Jupan moments
is the room as is much aboutwhat you can see as what you can't
see, because there's darkness and thingssort of come in and out of it,
and I'm just wondering, as youwere sort of planning out that space,

(32:22):
it simultaneously projects this feeling of warmthbut also of danger, and I'm
wondering, like how you plot thatout? Yeah, I mean that's a
great question and some really good observationsfor sure. I think the initial the
initial goes at the house were veryinteresting because the way that Mike rights can

(32:45):
be very specific in like a reallyreally great way, because you have a
lot of detail to start with.I mean, you know, like there's
a basement door and they're sitting acrossfrom each other, like those details are
in his script. It's not justdialogue. You do get a lot of
stage direction, so there's a lotof pieces that you kind of start with,
and often it comes down to drawing, Okay, two chairs are sitting

(33:07):
across from each other, the fireobviously has to be in between them,
because that's going to be the bestvisual, now what, and figuring out
where the relationships of the actual physicalelements are based on the action that you
know has to take place, whichis a lot when you know you're in
one space for eight episodes. AndI think there was a really beautiful evolution
of the space and I think itkind of works that way all the time.

(33:29):
If you're collaborating well is that youstart with your plan and your vision,
And for me, it was findinglike the color tones that were going
to work for like you said,that warmth and that welcoming space to the
doom and gloom and kind of dangerof this campfire story of the truth of

(33:50):
happening, and then the element ofall the ghosts and all the other things
that are happening in the space.And when the collaboration goes really well,
I love being able to bring inlike this is what I think. These
are the wallpapers I think are goingto be great. This is how I
bring in these colors and this mood, and then everybody gets to layer on
top of it. So you haveFamiliari with his lighting, and you know
what if we did the gas lamps, what if they're on top of this

(34:13):
instead of candles or whatever, youknow, And then Mike, Okay,
I want the door to swing thisway because when I do that, I'm
going to be able to hide thisand that's going to feel more eerie.
So I think it's a collaboration toget it to that point, for sure.
But if I'm doing my job right, I'm providing the right opportunities for
those layers to come in and towork, and that's what really makes me

(34:34):
feel good. That's awesome. It'sa fun set. And I mean also
knowing that it has to become kindof that study. But they're not rich
enough to have a study that startedas like the dining room, yeah,
next to the kitchen, and thenit was like, okay, well then
you know, he wouldn't have broughtnew furniture there. So where do those
chairs come from? Okay, they'rein the front room, which is the
real living room of the house,and he's obviously dragged them there because the

(34:55):
dining room table has been stolen orbroken or whatever over the years. So
then finding the logic to create allthose layers is also like another part of
the process that I like, that'sgreat, that's so great, And it
feels like the house I mean obviouslyjust becomes more and more decrepit over time.
Right And you know, like yousaid in the you know, when

(35:17):
we first see it, it's verysuburban and not lavish, but well put
together. And the kids are all, you know, dressed nicely, but
they're sleeping in the same bed,so you know there must be just one
you know, they couldn't afford anotherbed for the two kids, right,
are they sleeping in the same bedwhen they're kids, they're in Madeline's room.

(35:38):
He has a room, but wenever see it or built it.
I see. It was more aboutthe fact that they're very bonded and they
really like, all through their lives, really lean on each other to be
kind of complete, I guess ina way, and so that he stays
in her room because that's the nightwith like the mom and everything. Yeah,

(36:00):
Well, in the house when I'msorry, when Eliza comes back in
after being you know, coming outof the grave, the house, the
house already now looks like it's fallingdown around them, even though it's not.
But it I think it's the lightingand what's happening in the storm,
you know, it's almost like aforeshadowing of what's the house later on.
Yeah, and I mean really likethe three distinct looks were sort of like

(36:22):
nineteen fifties, everything's fine, we'rechildren and family, and then nineteen sixties
Mom has become a religious fanatic.She's a hoarder. So now you know,
the newspapers are stacking up and she'scollecting crosses and there's like lots of
unopened mail at the door because shedoesn't care about like the normal life tasks
anymore, and she's in so muchpain that she doesn't come and deal with

(36:45):
anything or cook. So now thekids are cooking, so there's a bigger
mess in the kitchen. To layerthree, which is Roderick has so much
I don't know if I would callit hate. I don't know what the
right emotion is that he feels aboutthat house because he did love his mom
and he did honor her in lotsof but he wanted to see the house
rot, that life rot and disintegrate, and that's why he bought the whole

(37:07):
street and let the whole street justerode and degrade. So yeah, that's
the sort of the three layers,very distinct. Wow, there's so much
to think about with this. It'sreally impressive as it and when you're watching
the show, it affects you,but sometimes you're not even sure what's affected
you or why. You know,it's all meant to be stuff that you

(37:30):
I guess you think about after thefact or maybe not right. Yeah,
I mean it was always It's alwaysinteresting because I think, you know,
really production design sets so much toneand so much mood for a show.
But if we're doing our job right, you're not really looking at us.
You're looking at them and the storyand the characters. But in a show

(37:51):
like this, there's a lot aboutthe spaces that in form and foreshadow,
and there is a lot of moregoing on in this kind of a show
than just being the background. Butit is a very fine line between like,
if we're doing it right, we'renot really the most important part.
That makes sense, right of course, Yeah, you don't want people leaving
a movie thinking like, you know, the best thing about that was the

(38:14):
set. Yeah, obviously, unlessthey're designers and that's what they go to
watch for, because that's why Igo see shows. Do you when you
go to sea shows or films,or you're basically like, oh, that's
that's amazing, or no, theymissed a chance. Oh yeahutely, Well
not usually they missed a chance,more like, Oh I wish I'd done
that. That looks amazing, that'sgreat. I was just thinking, you

(38:35):
know, moving forward in the episode, I was thinking about, you know,
Victory, and at first I waswondering, is her office in her
home? But it could be thatshe was just hearing that ticking everywhere she
went. But I was thinking aboutthe you know, like the marble you
know, statue, and did youknow when you at the very beginning when

(38:58):
you were buying that placing, thatthat that's what it was going to be
used for. And just the wholesetup of that last scene with Alessandro on
the like attager, you know,like wow, you know, she looks
like like a rag doll. Itwas just like incredible. So I know
that was like five questions, butno, no, that's great. I

(39:19):
mean I think like every every episodesort of has that world of each character,
so it is really fun to kindof like look at the progression of
them through their kind of mini arc. I guess, yeah. And with
victory and so she has a home, which was a location that was one
of the few places that we didn'tbuild because hers was a little bit easier
to find, sort of a concretemodern type of house. So she had

(39:43):
a home office, which is wherethat all took place. I see.
Then she had her office at theroom Rgue, which was the one with
the copper shelves, and that wasall built and that's where the surgical suite
and the page room and that bigentryway where Camille goes in. That's all
that was all one big facility thathe works at. Got it and for
the the marble statue. It waskind of funny because I think I think

(40:07):
it was scripted. I want tosay it was just scripted as a statue.
But as we found the location,which actually shifted a couple of times
because we were still in the landof COVID when we were shooting, so
we did lots of schedule changes happened, so you know, this actor came
back positive or negative or whatever,or it's a crew member and all of
a sudden, we can't shoot thereand we have to completely upend everything.

(40:29):
And I know Victorine's house was onethat we kind of had to reschedule a
few times, which changed what waspossible for location because obviously everything's very like,
you know, efficiently scheduled, sowhen one changes, it's like a
terrible jigsaw puzzle for our ad departmentto refigure it out. But Victorine's house,
when we started figuring out the relationshipof that front door to where the

(40:52):
argument or the discussion took place,sort of how that hallway looked, it
became clear that it was kind oflike a bookshelf rather than just like a
little stand or something. So Iactually personally purchased that book end because oh
wow, well I love doing thatstuff too, so when there's time and

(41:14):
I'm allowed to, I'll do someof the buying myself, for sure.
But I went out and just grabbeda few different options. And I'd seen
that one before and thought because hewas sort of describing, well, it
has to be heavy like marble,but she has to be able to grip
it, but it should kind ofbe round but also sharp, and I
was thinking like, oh, yes, I remember that. So I went
and grabbed that, and that iswhat we ended up using. And so

(41:34):
then it had like rubbers made ofit and safe versions for throwing and things
like that. So that was Butyeah, I always knew that that's what
that piece would be for. Isthat piece in your home now? No?
But you know what, if youare stalking my Instagram, I noticed
today that I did a post withmy dog in all the sets because he
came with me every week. Andthen there's one where he's sleeping on my

(41:55):
chair sprawled out in my office andon my desk. Is that marble book
end. It would have been theday that I bought it. Nice.
I'm just picturing you, like ina Housewaar's store somewhere, with a clerk
being like can I help you,and you being like, I really like
this bookend, but I wanted toknow do you think it could kill somebody
with this? Or like, ohyeah, how dangerous? Is this?

(42:16):
One of my favorite cartoons comics thatI've ever seen. There's like a specific
theater one. I don't know ifyou've seen it. It's all sort of
like, you know, funny thingswe run into in theater. And at
the time when that came out,I was I was prop mastering, and
it was a prop person calling upsomeone off of Craigslist saying, oh hey,
I'm just calling about your fridge,like do you think you could fit

(42:37):
a body in there? Because that'sjust what happens when you work in these
kind of worlds, your Google searchmust be really and entertaining. I have
a feeling it was awful, especiallyduring the Perry Party research period. Wow,
I bet what does acid look like? Things You're going like, oh
my god, how bad is acidfor an orgy? Yeah? Yeah,

(43:00):
I mean I'm probably on some watchlists somewhere for sure. Wow. So
you mentioned that this is your thirdseries with Mike Lan again you and so
you've developed a working relationship with them, obviously, and it sounds like it's
going great. Are there things thatlike, let's say I managed to get
a job tomorrow with you working withMike planning and how would you describe that

(43:22):
relationship? How? What are thethings you'd advise somebody going to work with
Mike. I mean, it's definitelylike Mike is an amazing guy. He
is one of the hardest working peopleI've ever come across in film, and
that says a lot, because filmis full of you have to be hard
working to make it anywhere in filmfor sure, or theater for that matter.

(43:43):
But he's also extremely multi talented,and I think that that gives him
such a big advantage when he's creating, because not only can he write like
amazing and direct, he brings outthe best in his actors. He's extremely
creative and visually has like very strongvisual references. He's musical. He writes
a lot of the music for theshows. I know the Newton Brothers do

(44:06):
like the official soundtracks, but oneday I came into a set on the
Midnight Club and I had a pianoin it and he was sitting in there
playing part of the Hunting of Hillhousesong. Wow. Oh yeah, he's
like so talented and with all thatcomes like a very keen eye for detail,
Like he knows what he wants,he knows how he wants it to
look. He doesn't always have itfleshed out. I mean, that's what

(44:28):
I'm there for or whoever he's workingwith, right, But I think that
the biggest thing that I mean,I appreciate a lot about about the way
that he works, but his eyefor detail and ability to put together such
beautiful pictures, even when it's allthe layers of all the other people like
myself or Familiari, is just sucha skill that that's what I'm always working

(44:53):
towards, is filling his vision becauseit is such a strong vision. Yeah,
that's really exciting. Well, whatabout the vision involved in the scene
with Roderick falling when he's when he'sthinking of ending his life and he imagines
falling seventy floors? Do you considerthat part of the set, like the

(45:16):
backdrop of him falling. I mean, that's really like it's such an,
that's a good question because I thinklike that's such a specific vision that comes
through like the script, it's scripted, and then for the visual of it,
there's always like a very interesting crossoverbetween what we're doing practically and what's

(45:36):
happening with visual effects, and Mikealways has great vis effects supervisors and coordinators,
and there's a layering of our ofour worlds in a lot of ways.
And because sort of my part ofthe process comes first, I'm kind
of establishing the worlds, and thenwhat happens within them when you get into
the visual effects and into post productionwhen I'm not with the show anymore technically,

(45:59):
that's always sort of like this greatother collaborative layering process. So I
would say something like that really doescome from Mike plays on the world that
I've sort of provided, and thenviz effects really really helps bring his vision
to life. In that kind ofan instance, when you say you're no
longer on the show, what thatmeans, I think is is that by
that point the show's in post filmingis completed, yeah, and I'm off

(46:20):
to another show prepping for something else. And then I mean, like I'm
still always most of the time youget like a little bit of contact with
post production. They're looking for differentassets because they're doing some three D modeling
and they want, you know,the drawings of the house because they're gonna
i don't know, at a reflectionon a window, things like that.
So we do still have contact,but in terms of like the design process,

(46:40):
my phase is kind of over atthat point, gotcha. I mean
we do. We communicate a lotduring the earlier parts, and during filming
there's a VISIVEX supervisorly on set allthe time, so we still have a
lot of communication, but definitely laterit sort of hands off. Are there
ever times when somebody will say like, hey, I've got this great idea
and you'll just be like, hey, guys, this may be more vis

(47:05):
effects than me, Like, there'sonly so much I can can do.
Do you ever, I know it'sa collaborative effort. Yeah, I feel
like the conversations. Those conversations happenpretty early, like in prep when we're
looking at the script because even onlike our you know, second read through
altogether, all the department heads willsit at the table, we'll read through
the script and it'll basically be alittle bit like okay. So we're in

(47:29):
Perry's party aftermath, who's doing whatand we kind of just talk about like,
okay, well if you do this, then I do that, and
this is how we collaborate. Ora good example with vis Effects would be
the Childhood Home street, like that'sall that's built on stage. We built
his house, the lower floor,the upper floor. It turned out it
would be cheaper to do it inposts, so we designed it in our

(47:51):
department and then handed that model offto them to meet if you will,
and then we built the facades ofone to three like six houses, three
either side, and then we builtLongfellow's house. But the houses at the
very end of the street close toLongfellows are all done in post production,
and so early in the process weknew we couldn't build that many houses practically,
also just the size of the stagesthat we have. So what we

(48:16):
did was we handed viz Effects allof the houses that we design, and
they came up with and generated another, i want to say, another six
or eight houses, and then wesat down on a call and they showed
me around the houses and said,you know, does this fit? And
I would say like, well,you know, I think we should bump
a window out there at a window, move the door that doesn't feel quite

(48:36):
right, or this is perfect,that fits right in. And so we
kind of worked together to make surethe look is consistent with what's practically being
built. But then when it comesto like how many trees they're going to
add on the street, then theycan deal with that outside of you know
what we've created together. Wow,that's great. It's a great process.
Yeah, for sure. And Imean we had conversations with some of the

(48:59):
visits effects super advisors earlier and oneof the things that they said is the
idea of trial and error is definitelysomething that they have the ability to do
a lot easier than let's build aset and if it doesn't work, we'll
just build a new set, becausethat sounds really difficult. Oh totally.
I mean, I think what's reallyinteresting, like, I think that Mike
always is pretty careful and pretty awareof what makes sense to do practically and

(49:23):
what he wants to do practically,because he's like a really big film buff
in all the right ways in thathe knows what he can achieve on set
practically, or he can ask youknow, the many people of the team,
Hey, can we do this likeall the tamerly mirror work? You
know, am I ruining things byjumping in ahead? You're good? And
no, Lindsay hasn't seen that episode. Yeah, I don't even know what

(49:45):
you're talking about. It's totally fineruin it. But you know, there's
mirrors over the bed and that wholepiece moves on a practical motor so that
we can, you know, getit as close or far away as we
need behind the scenes. You know, you don't see that on camera or
any like stunt wires then passed throughlike. It's all very practically done.
And I love the Mic does somuch practically and knows when to lean into

(50:07):
his effects and when that's going tobe something that we can't achieve practically and
it's going to enhance things. SoI think he's very smart about where he
uses that. That is so cool. That is really great. Yeah.
Actually one really funny one and it'snot this show, it's The Midnight Club,
but we did there was an oldman reflection in a mirror scene with

(50:28):
Alanka, the sort of lead characterof that show, when she finds out
she's sick and she's in this collegebathroom or this house party bathroom, and
she leans down and then she looksup and she sees the reflection of an
old man looking right back at her. I mean, I always thought that
would be VIZ effects. And thenMike said, no, you're going to
build two bathrooms. So I did. I built two bathrooms. Wow.

(50:49):
In the hall was like a twoway mirror, and we swapped it out.
We had like a real mirror,and then we had a two way
mirror so that she would look up, see her reflection, pull the mirror,
look down, look up, pullit out, and there was an
exact replica of the bathroom on theother side. WHOA. So like things
you think you're gonna do and viseffects, Sometimes he's like, no,
no, I got this. We'rejust going to do it practically and it's

(51:10):
fun cool. Do you think thatwas the best solution in the end for
the for what you needed to do? Oh? Wow? I think so
that's so. And I like alot of factors come into it, like
sometimes it's more fun and Mike's reallylike creative that way, and sometimes it
comes down to finances, Like Idon't know what the factor was in that.
I think it achieved it. Well, it wasn't an expensive build because

(51:30):
it's just a small bathroom on ourside of things. But you know,
there's definitely instances where it's like,well, if we're going to do that
in post production, that's thirty thousand, and if we're going to do it
in real life, it's three.So we're going to just try and do
it in real life? Sure?Why not? I mean, I just
I just remodeled my bathroom and itwas a huge production. So I don't
know what you're talking about, butmonths, it took months. My mine

(51:53):
didn't have to happen. It didn'thave to work. That bathroom just has
to scare somebody through a mirror.I get it. You get a much
cheaper rate if it's just to scarepeople, if it has to be a
fussional bathroom. Yeah. Okay,man, Well this has been so fascinating.
Lauren. Thank you so much forsharing your time and expertise with us.

(52:15):
We really appreciate it. Yeah,of course, thank you. Thanks
for the awesome questions. I loveit. That was so cool. That
was great. She was so lovelyand just you know, kind and generous.
I mean, everyone has been sokind and generous with stories and things

(52:37):
like that. I really enjoy talkingto Lauren though, learning all those things
about the sets and the background andthe layering and all of that. Isn't
it cool how the little tiny details, like how much thought goes into just
little things, Like like, Ithought your question about colors was so awesome

(53:00):
because I'm not a visual person bynature necessarily, I you know what I
mean, Like everything I do isare Also, like, I don't really
think about it in those ways,But as soon as you brought up that
every child has seem to have adifferent color, I was like, yeah,
they do. What's going on there? Well, we got that hint
when with Camille and her hair thatit matched her whole, her whole vibe,

(53:24):
and and I saw the orange andyou know Victorians episode, so I
yeah, I kind of love it. And also I just in the same
way like you think of costume design, right, because costume design is a
really great way to understand a character'spersonality in a hurry, because what they

(53:44):
wear often reflects who they are astheir personality. But Lauren is exploring that
in her own way through the interiordesign of each of these characters' homes and
the places that they inhabit, andso like everything she does, in addition
to serving the plot of the show, which of course is super important,
she's just leaving little hints and cluesfor us everywhere of how to better understand

(54:09):
the characters and better understand the machinationsin this plot, you know what I
mean. So like it's just likeit's all this sort of additional like material
that is you're watching it, youdon't think like, ah, yes,
I'm really enjoying the color of thatcouch, but like later on you're like,
yeah, that color that affected mein some way, and it's just

(54:30):
so great. Well, and notonly that, I want you to remember
that I warned you in the beginningthat every everything you see and everything you
hear is relevant and it's going tocome back and mean something. And I
love I love that he does that. You know that he puts in all
those clues for us and maybe we'llfind them and maybe we won't, but

(54:52):
you know it makes it really fun, like all of like the Oculus mirror
showing up everywhere, and like Isaid, there's you know, in next
episode something comes up and you know, all of the Poe references, like
that's all just really fun, andI think the fans do really enjoy finding
those things. Yes that you know, when when something I find like they

(55:14):
put it's on Facebook, I'm like, yes, I was so excited about
that. So yeah, it's greatbecause I think it both gives you a
greater admiration for all of the peoplewho put these things together, but also
yeah, it gives you a deeperunderstanding of the story in a way that
I don't know, it's not almostintangible in a certain way, like when

(55:34):
people are talking to you about theirlives and you you see how they look
or you see how they act.Those things, I'm sure play into your
overall impression of the things that theysay. Right, Yeah, of course
it's all It's all relevant. Everythingis relevant for sure. I just want
to add I think the acting inthe show is tremendous totally, and unfortunately,

(55:58):
because of the strike, we're notable to talk to any of the
actors, and I wish that wecould, just so that I could tell
Bruce Greenwood I am blown away byhis performers in every single episode and all
of them they're all amazing. Ididn't realize, like what a tremendous actor
Bruce Greenwood was and the whole thing. They're all like amazing. Yeah,

(56:22):
I couldn't agree more. And Ithink what is kind of surprising is that
even the actors that I'm familiar withare doing work that is unlike their work
I've seen elsewhere, you know whatI mean, Like I feel like they're
doing cou Okay, So Henry Thomas, right, like that's the most it's

(56:42):
the clearest example. Of course,we all know Henry Thomas is the boy
Elliott and et Elliott. Yes,but now sorry, I had to do
that at least once. Thank you. I appreciate that. But now he's
grown up and is this totally kindof creepy care with the ponytail, and
like you know, he's kind ofa skeev character in this this This is

(57:06):
why you have to go back andwatch Hill House, because he's he's in
hill House and he's not skivy orcreepy in Hillhouse at all. And I
need to talk to somebody about HenryThomas's performance in the show because it's very,
very different than how he is,you know, in in Hillhouse.
And I think he was in blindManner. Also, I'm just obsessed with

(57:29):
Hillhouse, so it's very it's verydifferent, but you're right, like the
transformation of all of them, andeven you know, from show to show,
Raoul Coley is a much beloved characterand also the actress who plays Victory
and very beloved character in other shows. And they're just so they're so evil

(57:53):
in this show. Right. Butwhat you're saying is I need to watch
Hillhouse so that you can have aconversation with someone about Yes, please before
we record the next episode. Ohyeah, okay, sure that sounds like
a no problem. Yeah, fine, Well, it looks like our time
is up, Lindsay. Yeah,we're at the end of another session.

(58:13):
We'll be back next week with anew episode of Psychoanalyzing the Fall of the
House of Usher. Bye bye.Psychoanalyzing the Fall of the House of Usher
is a production of straw Hut Media. Your hosts are Stacy and I and
Lindsay Jones. Your producer is MaggieBowles. Editing and sound design by Daniel

(58:35):
Ferrera. Theme music by Adrian Baranger, with additional music from Marco Martini and
Artie Son. Subscribe, rate andreview and come back for new episodes every
Friday and tell us what should wepsychoanalyze next. Let us know by emailing
us at Psychoanalyzing at straw hutmedia dotcom. See you next week.