June 3, 2024 • 28 mins
Can choosing the right therapist be the key to unlocking a healthier, happier you? In our latest episode of Psychologist Say, Dr. Tami and our insightful guest Harold tackle this critical question head-on. We dive into the burgeoning world of telemedicine and how it has revolutionized access to therapy, particularly for those living in remote areas or grappling with social anxiety. We also discuss the important, yet often overlooked, decision of whether in-person or virtual therapy suits your needs. From exploring the impact of therapist gender on the therapeutic relationship to emphasizing the importance of making that initial step towards finding help, this episode is brimming with invaluable insights for anyone on a mental health journey.
But what happens when therapy doesn't seem to be working? Dr. Tami and Harold share their expertise on navigating these waters, highlighting the necessity of open communication with your therapist and the importance of a good personality fit. Whether your therapist is direct and animated or more reflective and reserved, collaboration and honest feedback are key to effective therapy. We delve into the significance of expressing feelings of disconnection and how, sometimes, seeking a different therapist may be the best route. Tune in for a thoughtful discussion on making therapy work for you and ensuring that your path to mental wellness is as effective and fulfilling as possible.
Your support matters to us! Please give us a follow on each of our platforms to stay updated on what we're doing at PsychologistSay.
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/PyschologistSay
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/psychologist_say/
TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@drtamitrottier
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The following is a series of candid conversations.
The content is intended forinformational purposes only and
is not a substitute for seekinghelp from a mental health care
professional.
To learn more info regardingadditional disclaimers, privacy
policies and terms andconditions, please visit
HelloDrTammycom.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Bonjour, welcome to Psychologist Say, a podcast
where I talk about thepsychology of everyday living.
I'm your host, dr Tammy, andwe're joined today by returning
guest Harold.
How are you doing today, harold?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I'm doing wonderful.
How are you, Dr Tammy?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm great.
I'm really excited to have youback on our show again.
How did you feel about our lastepisode that we recorded?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I loved it.
It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Okay, good.
Well, you were a great personto have on and I'm glad that
you're interested in coming outand definitely having more
conversations.
So today we are going to do abit of follow-up, harold, listen
to my last recording about someof the things that your
therapist may not be actuallytelling you or sharing with you
(01:10):
in terms of what we do as atherapist, how we think and how
we function, and so we're goingto do a little bit more about
just discussing some questionsthat came up for him or just
conversations that he's hadabout topics like this how do I
find a therapist?
How do I know if I'm ready fortherapy?
(01:31):
What should therapy be like?
Those are just some generalquestions.
Am I kind of in the rightdirection on these?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, absolutely.
I guess like when looking for atherapist before COVID, where I
myself was limited to thinkingtherapy was what's available or
is available in your backyard,in your area.
So, in my mind, it was limitedto what do you have access to in
your community, who do you haveaccess to?
(02:22):
So I may have had a lot of goodadvice about finding one, but
that doesn't mean that they'reavailable in your community.
So now, though, withtelemedicine and being able to
do virtual therapy, this hasblown up.
And now, I would say, lookingfor that first question of am I
(02:45):
somebody who needs or wants tosee my therapist face-to-face,
versus can I do a virtualtherapy session?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Right.
So maybe someone who's moreshut in, maybe more of an
introvert, that kind oftelemedicine or teletherapy
would be a better option forthem.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Well, I wouldn't say a better, but it's definitely
another option.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Another option.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
There you go, because of course, I would love to see
I think that's part of what atreatment plan would entail.
If I'm working with somebodywho maybe is more withdrawn and
maybe has social anxiety, Ithink it's a great way to start
and maybe has social anxiety, Ithink it's a great way to start.
(03:28):
Maybe it's getting them moreopen, but usually part of their
distress is that they'd like tobe more social.
So I would eventually, yes,want to get that person into
therapy sessions face-to-face,because that becomes part of
that treatment, of exposure andshowing up.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
So it might not be a better option, depending on the
person, but it's a great firststep.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I would say in terms of somebody who is specifically
dealing with those types ofanxiety where sometimes going
into your therapist's office isone of those big hurdles and
steps to help them get betteroverall.
With that being said, theresearch that has been out on
(04:11):
the differences of telemedicineversus in-person, there hasn't
been a lot of difference.
So overall, you know, doingvirtual therapy or going in
face-to-face is something that Iwould say to just take that
first step, and so I wouldn'tworry too much about what, what
(04:32):
is the outcome.
I would.
It's more about how do I getthis started and see where it
takes me.
And now, with virtual therapy,you definitely have that option
of being more selective in termsof, maybe, what type of
therapist you want.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Right.
So I'm going to kind of deviatea little bit here.
When looking for a therapist,when I think about going to a
therapist, one of the firstthings I think about is the
gender of that therapist.
Like, would I want to see a man, or would I want to see a woman
, depending on like, like youknow, because men and women
often have differentcharacteristics and
personalities and, um, I guess,like, who would I relate to more
(05:11):
?
Who would I open up to more?
Those are the kind of questionsI think about.
Um, what would you say tosomebody else who has those kind
of thoughts?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I think it's a really common factor that maybe people
are not really even saying toomuch, but I think it's a natural
feeling for many people to feelto be able to express
themselves better with maybetheir gender or their same
gender.
I think also maybe that's ourown biases, where maybe we're
(05:47):
reluctant or we're not sure onhow a man or a woman and how
they would see us and if they'dbe able to relate to us, and so
I think sometimes we might standin our own way by seeking out
comfortable factors versus likewho can help me?
You know?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
And that's where you know, in our community most of
the access we have is to femaletherapists.
So when we do have a maletherapist and it is a preference
, of course you know if apatient says that they want to
work with the male, that's theirpreference and of course we
definitely try to do that forthem.
(06:29):
But then again, that looks ataccess.
Do you have access tomedication, to all of those
options to be able to meet allof your needs?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, exactly Like for us.
We live in a rural area and wehave so little options unless
you want to travel out of townto another bigger town, and even
then there's not that manyoptions because those towns
aren't very big either.
So I guess, like if there's nooptions and you mentioned the
virtual therapies those could bethat allows, I guess, more
(07:01):
avenues people to when searchingfor a therapist, right.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yes, because then you can start to if there's, if
they have therapists that areworking, there's definitely ones
that you can try to request.
You can be more specificbecause you're not just trying
to work with what you have inyour community, especially if
you come from a small community,and I think that's a great way
(07:25):
to look at.
Well, I want, I'm looking forsomething particular and I, if I
want to increase my options, orif, if this is a big barrier to
me, then of course, I would say, yes, look at those avenues.
If it's just something that isdefinitely blocking you from at
least engaging in therapy, youknow, taking that first step,
(07:48):
yes, look at, look, go on onlinetherapy resources and with this
telemedicine, you can request,you can again, and they'll try
to accommodate the best thatthey can.
I guess, at a deeper level, Iwould maybe encourage people to
think about what is some of thethings that are going on, and I
(08:08):
think that another good questionis even talking with your
therapist about that.
So let's just say the exampleof, locally, I have an
individual who is a male, whowould like to see a male at our
clinic, but we do not haveaccess to a male therapist, and
(08:29):
so, but yet they really want tobe seen at my clinic.
So that's kind of where.
Would they be then willing toget into therapy with one of us
here at our clinic at IBH andthen have that discussion with
us so that we can understandwhat are some of the things
(08:49):
they're struggling with workingwith a female?
What are things that I have tobe aware of?
And there's a really goodquestion that is from EMDR,
where it's if that's a form oftherapy for anxiety and trauma
emdr yes totally different realmof um I imagine it's an act.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
I don't know if you don't mind, yeah yeah, yep, it's
um eye movement desensitization.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So yeah, so that's that's a word full yeah, so we
can talk about that later.
I just went through through thetraining on that particular
approach, but that's one of thein that protocol there's a
question that says to yourpatient how secure do you feel
here right now, in this space,to be able to do the work that
(09:37):
we're going to be doing together?
And they're able to rate thatfrom zero to five, like giving
them that option to say, well,you know, I'm at a two.
Well, okay, is there anythingyou know that we, I, can do to
help help make you feel moresecure or help secure this space
for you a little bit more?
(09:57):
And I think those are reallygreat ways for a therapist and a
patient to explore that onsetof maybe I don't feel quite safe
here, maybe I feel toovulnerable, maybe I feel that
I'm reluctant to share with youbecause I have what are
considered maybe male issues andI'm worried that a female may
(10:21):
not be able to relate to mystruggles.
Yeah, maybe they've haduncomfortable relationships with
females in the past and workingwith a female is just
triggering and they're not evensure why.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah, and that could go the same the other way around
.
If a female wants to go to gettherapy and there's, maybe they
have only access to maletherapists in their area.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yes, exactly.
And when you think of thehistory, I mean that was the
history.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Dominated field, yeah , and where women there was no
choice.
You had to go to the doctor andthat doctor was male, and so
now that we're in a differenttime, people do have choices.
But I think it's that's part ofgetting to know yourself, and
if you have a good therapistregardless of gender, I guess
(11:12):
that's the end game is that theycan help you.
That's the goal is help youidentify what's hurting you,
what's causing distress.
How can we help you workthrough that and talking about
gender issues or issues withyour therapist.
That's a great way to buildthat relationship I talked about
in our last episode.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Okay, I guess.
One more question is say Istart with a therapist and
things just aren't working likewhat are, what are my options?
Is it okay if I ask for anothertherapist?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
of course, of course.
Uh, you always have that liketherapies at their own free will
.
And let's say, you, you startedit and it's just you're.
You feel like you're lost oryou're not connecting with your
therapist.
So I think I mentioned the bestthing to do that I would
recommend and that I would wantmy patient to do is to take that
(12:07):
.
You know, let's try to tacklethat.
At least please have aconversation with me about it.
And a lot of times it can be amisunderstanding or it could be
an approach that we're usingthat just isn't sitting well
with that particular person'spersonality and maybe it works
(12:27):
well with all of our otherclients.
So sometimes we don't even knowif our patient is feeling like
our personalities aren't meshingwell, yeah, and so it
definitely comes up with um,just what you said, like gosh,
I'm really, um, I, you know, Ilike you know, therapy's been
okay, but I really feel like I'mmaybe thinking I need something
(12:48):
else.
Even telling that to yourtherapist.
Uh, you should never beretaliated against, you should
never.
That should never turn on.
You know, we shouldn't flip thescript and say this is more
about you than me.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Sort of gaslighted.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
And I would say, if there was a therapist doing that
and it wasn't done in a reallygood or therapeutic way, I would
say, yeah, looks like whateveryou're feeling may be exactly
right, because your therapist,they need to work with you, they
(13:31):
need to be able to communicateeven tough things to their
patient in a good way.
Well, boy, that didn't even gothe way I thought it would.
I didn't feel validated, Ididn't feel heard.
I, you know they didn'trephrase that for me in a way
that made sense.
I felt like they got defensive.
You know, whatever that is,those are all good things to
(13:52):
also say.
Boy, you know, I brought that uplast week and I didn't know if
you were, if you were, upset oroffended by that.
So I just, you know those areall okay to talk to your
therapist about, because thegoal is to this person is the
person that you need to trust tohelp you get through your most
(14:12):
intimate you know informationand you have to be able to build
that relationship Right and itwon't come.
It's not one sided, so it hasto be back and forth, where
we're relying on our patients toto help us out a bit too, if
we're, if we're not meeting themand where they need to be.
(14:34):
Just you know, just some ofthat guidance and feedback too
is it's appreciated, it's great,and I know it can be tough, but
also it could be reallyrewarding.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
And ultimately to say maybe it's just not going well
and your therapist agrees.
You know, they've been trying,you've been trying.
What your therapist would thendo is offer you a referral and
look for.
You know, this is what I do.
I try to find other therapiststhat they may work well with.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, so maybe someone who has, like, maybe
different strategies that youmight deploy, or yeah, yeah, and
sometimes, a lot of times, Ithink it's about personality.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, so that's where your therapist is just like
anybody, any other human person.
They have different types ofpersonalities that it's not easy
for them to just change thetype of personality they are,
how they deliver their, theirsessions, how they deal with
uncomfortable information.
(15:34):
You know, everybody has theirown style of communicating and
going back and forth andsometimes those are the things
you just can't change about yourtherapist.
They can, they can try to youknow, meet you, but if it's
overall like this just isn't apersonality fit, that's where
you like.
Maybe you need somebody who'smore engaging, more animated,
(15:58):
has more energy.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
You know, maybe more direct.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
More direct yeah.
Definitely more animated, uh,has more energy, you know, maybe
more direct, more direct, yeah,definitely, some people are.
They're ready to do the work.
They don't want, um,unconditional positive regard
where they're kind of always, um, basically like reinforced for
what's going on.
They, they actually may say youknow what I feel like I might
be the problem sometimes in mylife.
You know there's some peopleand I love those people because
(16:26):
I am, I'm, I'm upfront andsometimes I and it's because I'm
I've been doing this work for avery long time and so for me,
I'd, I'd like to get more intothe issues so that maybe they
don't need to take, you know,months and months to to try to
like tackle some of the thingsthat may be going on.
(16:46):
So those are good things.
You know, I always tell mypatient, you know, I know it's
tough to be honest, but nothingyou can say would surprise me,
nothing would shock me.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I've heard it all.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
I've heard it all and I need to hear whatever it is
that is going on with you so Ican help you.
Otherwise, I'm just doing mybest to help you with what
you're telling me and, um, youknow, that's where it's like.
Give me the chance to try tohelp you to the best of my
ability, but you have to let mein.
(17:20):
You have to.
You know, eventually you haveto.
Let me try to get there withyou.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Yeah, it's a team effort.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Team effort.
Yeah, so I like that.
What you said, like more direct, because that is a personality
style.
That is somebody who is comingin saying, you know, I don't
want a lot of reflection, Likewell, how does that, you know?
Just kind of want a lot ofreflection, Like well, how does
that, you know just kind of keepbouncing it off, or what should
I do about this problem.
(17:47):
And your therapist may say,well, what do you think you
should do?
You know, it just may feel likesome people may feel like boy,
I'd really actually like to getmaybe some tools.
Or if I feel like I'm doing alot of my own problem solving,
or I'm walking out feeling likeeverything was going back onto
me, these are all things that,of course, your therapist
(18:07):
shouldn't just give you advice.
We're not here, we're not in anadvice column, but we should
guide you in an effort.
We should be able to tell youwhat kind of therapy approach
we're using with you whileyou're trying to figure out
certain situations.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, there you go yeah, that all sounds wonderful
information.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Thank you so much um, another thing was, you know,
I've had some patients who havesaid, boy, you know, this is
this therapy has been reallyhelpful.
I've tried other therapistsbefore and what?
And I go well, what, what'sdifferent, you know.
So I'll ask what's differentabout this?
Because sometimes, um, yourhope, you're really hoping that
(18:49):
you're a good therapist and thatyou're helping, and sometimes
I'll pull from many differenttypes of therapy approaches,
(19:10):
episode is what type of training.
Um, what kind of therapyapproach is your provider
trained in?
Yeah, and that's where a wordlike emdr came up.
Um, cognitive behavioraltherapy, uh, motivational
interview, these are all uh,psychoanalytic.
You know, people hear of apsychodynamic that's freudian,
so there's that's another wholevery interesting conversation
that are and this is for ourlisteners, because these are the
(19:34):
questions you may not know Arethese the things that are on
your checklist that you may notknow, that you may want a
therapist that is trained in acertain type of therapy approach
versus, you know, just atherapist who maybe you're not
sure of what, what kind of that?
What therapy are they actuallyusing on you?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
yeah, so going through like just the little
specializations in psychologythat you just mentioned, uh,
letting the listeners know alittle bit more about that
information they could.
When they do look out for atherapist, they could maybe find
that kind of specialization.
Yes, if it's out there, if it'savailable to them yes, they and
and it.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
They just have to ask their you know the clinic when
they're calling um.
If they're looking, you know,online and they see a therapist,
they, they could say what typeof therapy do they use?
You know what?
What's their approach?
And then that if they say theirc, their cbt, that means their
cognitive behavior therapy.
Then people can start to lookup well, what does that mean?
(20:36):
Does that sound like that'sright for me?
uh, so I think that's giving ourlisteners a piece of
information to be able to dotheir homework it's like it's a
tool yeah, but it's, it's the,it's your therapist approach,
it's how they were trained intheir program, like their
program of study, and then afterthat, if they have certain
(20:58):
trainings that they're able toadd more specialized training or
treatment approaches.
That's like EMDR you have to beable to show that you have the
certification or the ability todo these through certain
training protocols.
So that's where patients mayhear something interesting, but
(21:22):
they may not have access to atherapist who has that specific
training.
And that's where, again, that'swhere they might want to do
more homework and that's whereagain they can.
That's where they might want todo more homework.
And gosh, I'm interested in,not just like, what type of
therapist do I want to see, likemale or female, or, but what
kind of therapy approach soundsreally interesting?
That may work very well for myissue or my personality.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah, so beyond gender, it's like specialization
and then personality, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Definitely.
And then, once you meet them, Ithink that's where you kind of
get a better flair for how theirpersonality may interact with
what kind of therapy approachthey're using, and I think our
patients are not educated onthat.
Oh, absolutely not, you knowwhen you go to the doctor,
you're you know you have to seea podiatrist.
If it's for, you know, orthey're saying you know I can do
(22:11):
this for you, but it looks likeyou're having trouble with your
feet so I have to refer you toa podiatrist.
Because so it's, it's, it's nodifferent with your therapist.
There are certain things thatthat we specialize in, that we
would have to make referrals.
There are certain treatmentsthat we can offer, and if
there's something that you wantthat we can't offer, we try to
(22:35):
help you find a therapist who'strained in that approach.
So hopefully that definitelyhelps our listeners get bigger
insight on when they'retherapist shopping too, to that
you definitely can look for whatyou need and what you want, and
that that's something that canfit.
Um, and I think personality isa big, a big player yeah, for
(22:57):
sure great questions.
So the other thing I want tobring up before we shut down is
uh, I did have I do havepatients sometimes, but one in
particular when I was firststarting out.
That's where they said thistherapy has been very helpful,
and so I was curious.
Okay, but you were in therapyfor years before.
(23:19):
You know what's different.
You know about this Because Iwas very curious and I said how
was it with your other?
And they were really having adifficult time explaining it and
they just said well, it justseemed like I was going out for
coffee with them.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Right, it's like a casual conversation.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yes, and I just said it, should you know?
Yeah, oh, thank you, becauseyou should never feel like
you're going out for coffee withyour therapist.
We're not your friend, we'renot your um, we're not a family
member, we're not somebody thatis a cash.
You know there is arelationship of this is your
(23:59):
doctor, this is your therapistand you're.
There's that clear boundary.
And so if, if it's a check-inthat you can do with your friend
, that's not what the kind ofwork you do with your therapist,
unless that's very detailed.
That that's part ofrelationship building, but that
(24:22):
should only last so long.
I mean, that's the piece of it.
If somebody to me and this ismy thinking, and you know, maybe
somebody other therapists donot believe this is what I think
, though it should never feellike a friendship or a casual
going out for coffee kind ofthing.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
And so I think that's where I tell people yes, no,
you definitely want to enjoyyour sessions, you want to enjoy
your therapist, make sure thatthey're a good fit, but that you
should be very clear on thework that's being done in there,
so you know that there's atreatment plan and that you are
leaving feeling like you'remeeting those goals of getting
(25:02):
getting the relief that you need.
That you could not get fromgoing out for coffee with a
friend or a casual conversationwith people, it's got to be
deeper than that oh, I mean,well, yes, and therapy is, it's,
it's something that this is ourspecialty.
Uh, we build for services.
So, and I, I'll tell patientsthat if, um, if their phone
(25:26):
rings in session and they wantwant to excuse me, I'm going to
answer this.
I'm, I just think, okay, that'syou know, you're paying me
right now, but if you would, youknow, want to spend time on the
phone and I'd rather be workingwith you, but that's your call.
(25:58):
Yeah, do you know?
So it is.
And I have to remind peoplethat when they come in, yeah,
when the treatment plan is goingso long, I mean you're billing
per session.
So I think it's part of theirawareness of that.
Yeah, your therapist has to bevery mindful of that too.
(26:18):
And just not, you know, theyshould be updating you on where
they're going, where theprogress is be monitoring.
So that's just some otherthings to think about when you
get into a relationship.
And, yeah, time frame, I meanthat's what I would like to know
if I'm getting into somethingthat I'm paying for.
How many weeks, how manysessions, how long are these,
(26:41):
what do they cost?
How do I know when we're done?
These are all the kinds ofthings that people have
questions about that may not getanswered up front.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Okay, so I think this was a lot of good information.
Hopefully we followed up onsome of the questions and if you
haven't listened to the episode, it was I think it was titled
Hidden Truth, that yourtherapist may not share, but it
was the last episode that waspublished, so definitely go to
(27:20):
Psychologist Say and download.
And thanks for joining us.
Thank you, harold.
Great, I know you're mindspinning.
You have a lot more questions.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
So we will definitely have a lot more, many more
conversations about this, butwe'll sign off for today,
miigwetch, for listening, andwe'll see you later.
Ps.
Finding the right therapist isjust like shopping, so take your
time, do your research andinvest wisely.
The following is a series of candid conversations.
The content is intended forinformational purposes only and
is not a substitute for seekinghelp from a mental health care
professional.
To learn more info regardingadditional disclaimers, privacy
policies and terms andconditions, please visit
HelloDrTammycom.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Bonjour, welcome to Psychologist Say, a podcast
where I talk about thepsychology of everyday living.
I'm your host, dr Tammy, andwe're joined today by returning
guest Harold.
How are you doing today, harold?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I'm doing wonderful.
How are you, Dr Tammy?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm great.
I'm really excited to have youback on our show again.
How did you feel about our lastepisode that we recorded?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I loved it.
It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Okay, good.
Well, you were a great personto have on and I'm glad that
you're interested in coming outand definitely having more
conversations.
So today we are going to do abit of follow-up, harold, listen
to my last recording about someof the things that your
therapist may not be actuallytelling you or sharing with you
(01:10):
in terms of what we do as atherapist, how we think and how
we function, and so we're goingto do a little bit more about
just discussing some questionsthat came up for him or just
conversations that he's hadabout topics like this how do I
find a therapist?
How do I know if I'm ready fortherapy?
(01:31):
What should therapy be like?
Those are just some generalquestions.
Am I kind of in the rightdirection on these?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, absolutely.
I guess like when looking for atherapist before COVID, where I
myself was limited to thinkingtherapy was what's available or
is available in your backyard,in your area.
So, in my mind, it was limitedto what do you have access to in
your community, who do you haveaccess to?
(02:22):
So I may have had a lot of goodadvice about finding one, but
that doesn't mean that they'reavailable in your community.
So now, though, withtelemedicine and being able to
do virtual therapy, this hasblown up.
And now, I would say, lookingfor that first question of am I
(02:45):
somebody who needs or wants tosee my therapist face-to-face,
versus can I do a virtualtherapy session?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Right.
So maybe someone who's moreshut in, maybe more of an
introvert, that kind oftelemedicine or teletherapy
would be a better option forthem.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Well, I wouldn't say a better, but it's definitely
another option.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Another option.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
There you go, because of course, I would love to see
I think that's part of what atreatment plan would entail.
If I'm working with somebodywho maybe is more withdrawn and
maybe has social anxiety, Ithink it's a great way to start
and maybe has social anxiety, Ithink it's a great way to start.
(03:28):
Maybe it's getting them moreopen, but usually part of their
distress is that they'd like tobe more social.
So I would eventually, yes,want to get that person into
therapy sessions face-to-face,because that becomes part of
that treatment, of exposure andshowing up.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
So it might not be a better option, depending on the
person, but it's a great firststep.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I would say in terms of somebody who is specifically
dealing with those types ofanxiety where sometimes going
into your therapist's office isone of those big hurdles and
steps to help them get betteroverall.
With that being said, theresearch that has been out on
(04:11):
the differences of telemedicineversus in-person, there hasn't
been a lot of difference.
So overall, you know, doingvirtual therapy or going in
face-to-face is something that Iwould say to just take that
first step, and so I wouldn'tworry too much about what, what
(04:32):
is the outcome.
I would.
It's more about how do I getthis started and see where it
takes me.
And now, with virtual therapy,you definitely have that option
of being more selective in termsof, maybe, what type of
therapist you want.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Right.
So I'm going to kind of deviatea little bit here.
When looking for a therapist,when I think about going to a
therapist, one of the firstthings I think about is the
gender of that therapist.
Like, would I want to see a man, or would I want to see a woman
, depending on like, like youknow, because men and women
often have differentcharacteristics and
personalities and, um, I guess,like, who would I relate to more
(05:11):
?
Who would I open up to more?
Those are the kind of questionsI think about.
Um, what would you say tosomebody else who has those kind
of thoughts?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I think it's a really common factor that maybe people
are not really even saying toomuch, but I think it's a natural
feeling for many people to feelto be able to express
themselves better with maybetheir gender or their same
gender.
I think also maybe that's ourown biases, where maybe we're
(05:47):
reluctant or we're not sure onhow a man or a woman and how
they would see us and if they'dbe able to relate to us, and so
I think sometimes we might standin our own way by seeking out
comfortable factors versus likewho can help me?
You know?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
And that's where you know, in our community most of
the access we have is to femaletherapists.
So when we do have a maletherapist and it is a preference
, of course you know if apatient says that they want to
work with the male, that's theirpreference and of course we
definitely try to do that forthem.
(06:29):
But then again, that looks ataccess.
Do you have access tomedication, to all of those
options to be able to meet allof your needs?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, exactly Like for us.
We live in a rural area and wehave so little options unless
you want to travel out of townto another bigger town, and even
then there's not that manyoptions because those towns
aren't very big either.
So I guess, like if there's nooptions and you mentioned the
virtual therapies those could bethat allows, I guess, more
(07:01):
avenues people to when searchingfor a therapist, right.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yes, because then you can start to if there's, if
they have therapists that areworking, there's definitely ones
that you can try to request.
You can be more specificbecause you're not just trying
to work with what you have inyour community, especially if
you come from a small community,and I think that's a great way
(07:25):
to look at.
Well, I want, I'm looking forsomething particular and I, if I
want to increase my options, orif, if this is a big barrier to
me, then of course, I would say, yes, look at those avenues.
If it's just something that isdefinitely blocking you from at
least engaging in therapy, youknow, taking that first step,
(07:48):
yes, look at, look, go on onlinetherapy resources and with this
telemedicine, you can request,you can again, and they'll try
to accommodate the best thatthey can.
I guess, at a deeper level, Iwould maybe encourage people to
think about what is some of thethings that are going on, and I
(08:08):
think that another good questionis even talking with your
therapist about that.
So let's just say the exampleof, locally, I have an
individual who is a male, whowould like to see a male at our
clinic, but we do not haveaccess to a male therapist, and
(08:29):
so, but yet they really want tobe seen at my clinic.
So that's kind of where.
Would they be then willing toget into therapy with one of us
here at our clinic at IBH andthen have that discussion with
us so that we can understandwhat are some of the things
(08:49):
they're struggling with workingwith a female?
What are things that I have tobe aware of?
And there's a really goodquestion that is from EMDR,
where it's if that's a form oftherapy for anxiety and trauma
emdr yes totally different realmof um I imagine it's an act.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
I don't know if you don't mind, yeah yeah, yep, it's
um eye movement desensitization.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So yeah, so that's that's a word full yeah, so we
can talk about that later.
I just went through through thetraining on that particular
approach, but that's one of thein that protocol there's a
question that says to yourpatient how secure do you feel
here right now, in this space,to be able to do the work that
(09:37):
we're going to be doing together?
And they're able to rate thatfrom zero to five, like giving
them that option to say, well,you know, I'm at a two.
Well, okay, is there anythingyou know that we, I, can do to
help help make you feel moresecure or help secure this space
for you a little bit more?
(09:57):
And I think those are reallygreat ways for a therapist and a
patient to explore that onsetof maybe I don't feel quite safe
here, maybe I feel toovulnerable, maybe I feel that
I'm reluctant to share with youbecause I have what are
considered maybe male issues andI'm worried that a female may
(10:21):
not be able to relate to mystruggles.
Yeah, maybe they've haduncomfortable relationships with
females in the past and workingwith a female is just
triggering and they're not evensure why.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah, and that could go the same the other way around
.
If a female wants to go to gettherapy and there's, maybe they
have only access to maletherapists in their area.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yes, exactly.
And when you think of thehistory, I mean that was the
history.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Dominated field, yeah , and where women there was no
choice.
You had to go to the doctor andthat doctor was male, and so
now that we're in a differenttime, people do have choices.
But I think it's that's part ofgetting to know yourself, and
if you have a good therapistregardless of gender, I guess
(11:12):
that's the end game is that theycan help you.
That's the goal is help youidentify what's hurting you,
what's causing distress.
How can we help you workthrough that and talking about
gender issues or issues withyour therapist.
That's a great way to buildthat relationship I talked about
in our last episode.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Okay, I guess.
One more question is say Istart with a therapist and
things just aren't working likewhat are, what are my options?
Is it okay if I ask for anothertherapist?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
of course, of course.
Uh, you always have that liketherapies at their own free will
.
And let's say, you, you startedit and it's just you're.
You feel like you're lost oryou're not connecting with your
therapist.
So I think I mentioned the bestthing to do that I would
recommend and that I would wantmy patient to do is to take that
(12:07):
.
You know, let's try to tacklethat.
At least please have aconversation with me about it.
And a lot of times it can be amisunderstanding or it could be
an approach that we're usingthat just isn't sitting well
with that particular person'spersonality and maybe it works
(12:27):
well with all of our otherclients.
So sometimes we don't even knowif our patient is feeling like
our personalities aren't meshingwell, yeah, and so it
definitely comes up with um,just what you said, like gosh,
I'm really, um, I, you know, Ilike you know, therapy's been
okay, but I really feel like I'mmaybe thinking I need something
(12:48):
else.
Even telling that to yourtherapist.
Uh, you should never beretaliated against, you should
never.
That should never turn on.
You know, we shouldn't flip thescript and say this is more
about you than me.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Sort of gaslighted.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
And I would say, if there was a therapist doing that
and it wasn't done in a reallygood or therapeutic way, I would
say, yeah, looks like whateveryou're feeling may be exactly
right, because your therapist,they need to work with you, they
(13:31):
need to be able to communicateeven tough things to their
patient in a good way.
Well, boy, that didn't even gothe way I thought it would.
I didn't feel validated, Ididn't feel heard.
I, you know they didn'trephrase that for me in a way
that made sense.
I felt like they got defensive.
You know, whatever that is,those are all good things to
(13:52):
also say.
Boy, you know, I brought that uplast week and I didn't know if
you were, if you were, upset oroffended by that.
So I just, you know those areall okay to talk to your
therapist about, because thegoal is to this person is the
person that you need to trust tohelp you get through your most
(14:12):
intimate you know informationand you have to be able to build
that relationship Right and itwon't come.
It's not one sided, so it hasto be back and forth, where
we're relying on our patients toto help us out a bit too, if
we're, if we're not meeting themand where they need to be.
(14:34):
Just you know, just some ofthat guidance and feedback too
is it's appreciated, it's great,and I know it can be tough, but
also it could be reallyrewarding.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
And ultimately to say maybe it's just not going well
and your therapist agrees.
You know, they've been trying,you've been trying.
What your therapist would thendo is offer you a referral and
look for.
You know, this is what I do.
I try to find other therapiststhat they may work well with.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, so maybe someone who has, like, maybe
different strategies that youmight deploy, or yeah, yeah, and
sometimes, a lot of times, Ithink it's about personality.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, so that's where your therapist is just like
anybody, any other human person.
They have different types ofpersonalities that it's not easy
for them to just change thetype of personality they are,
how they deliver their, theirsessions, how they deal with
uncomfortable information.
(15:34):
You know, everybody has theirown style of communicating and
going back and forth andsometimes those are the things
you just can't change about yourtherapist.
They can, they can try to youknow, meet you, but if it's
overall like this just isn't apersonality fit, that's where
you like.
Maybe you need somebody who'smore engaging, more animated,
(15:58):
has more energy.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
You know, maybe more direct.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
More direct yeah.
Definitely more animated, uh,has more energy, you know, maybe
more direct, more direct, yeah,definitely, some people are.
They're ready to do the work.
They don't want, um,unconditional positive regard
where they're kind of always, um, basically like reinforced for
what's going on.
They, they actually may say youknow what I feel like I might
be the problem sometimes in mylife.
You know there's some peopleand I love those people because
(16:26):
I am, I'm, I'm upfront andsometimes I and it's because I'm
I've been doing this work for avery long time and so for me,
I'd, I'd like to get more intothe issues so that maybe they
don't need to take, you know,months and months to to try to
like tackle some of the thingsthat may be going on.
(16:46):
So those are good things.
You know, I always tell mypatient, you know, I know it's
tough to be honest, but nothingyou can say would surprise me,
nothing would shock me.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
I've heard it all.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
I've heard it all and I need to hear whatever it is
that is going on with you so Ican help you.
Otherwise, I'm just doing mybest to help you with what
you're telling me and, um, youknow, that's where it's like.
Give me the chance to try tohelp you to the best of my
ability, but you have to let mein.
(17:20):
You have to.
You know, eventually you haveto.
Let me try to get there withyou.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Yeah, it's a team effort.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Team effort.
Yeah, so I like that.
What you said, like more direct, because that is a personality
style.
That is somebody who is comingin saying, you know, I don't
want a lot of reflection, Likewell, how does that, you know?
Just kind of want a lot ofreflection, Like well, how does
that, you know just kind of keepbouncing it off, or what should
I do about this problem.
(17:47):
And your therapist may say,well, what do you think you
should do?
You know, it just may feel likesome people may feel like boy,
I'd really actually like to getmaybe some tools.
Or if I feel like I'm doing alot of my own problem solving,
or I'm walking out feeling likeeverything was going back onto
me, these are all things that,of course, your therapist
(18:07):
shouldn't just give you advice.
We're not here, we're not in anadvice column, but we should
guide you in an effort.
We should be able to tell youwhat kind of therapy approach
we're using with you whileyou're trying to figure out
certain situations.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, there you go yeah, that all sounds wonderful
information.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Thank you so much um, another thing was, you know,
I've had some patients who havesaid, boy, you know, this is
this therapy has been reallyhelpful.
I've tried other therapistsbefore and what?
And I go well, what, what'sdifferent, you know.
So I'll ask what's differentabout this?
Because sometimes, um, yourhope, you're really hoping that
(18:49):
you're a good therapist and thatyou're helping, and sometimes
I'll pull from many differenttypes of therapy approaches,
(19:10):
episode is what type of training.
Um, what kind of therapyapproach is your provider
trained in?
Yeah, and that's where a wordlike emdr came up.
Um, cognitive behavioraltherapy, uh, motivational
interview, these are all uh,psychoanalytic.
You know, people hear of apsychodynamic that's freudian,
so there's that's another wholevery interesting conversation
that are and this is for ourlisteners, because these are the
(19:34):
questions you may not know Arethese the things that are on
your checklist that you may notknow, that you may want a
therapist that is trained in acertain type of therapy approach
versus, you know, just atherapist who maybe you're not
sure of what, what kind of that?
What therapy are they actuallyusing on you?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
yeah, so going through like just the little
specializations in psychologythat you just mentioned, uh,
letting the listeners know alittle bit more about that
information they could.
When they do look out for atherapist, they could maybe find
that kind of specialization.
Yes, if it's out there, if it'savailable to them yes, they and
and it.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
They just have to ask their you know the clinic when
they're calling um.
If they're looking, you know,online and they see a therapist,
they, they could say what typeof therapy do they use?
You know what?
What's their approach?
And then that if they say theirc, their cbt, that means their
cognitive behavior therapy.
Then people can start to lookup well, what does that mean?
(20:36):
Does that sound like that'sright for me?
uh, so I think that's giving ourlisteners a piece of
information to be able to dotheir homework it's like it's a
tool yeah, but it's, it's the,it's your therapist approach,
it's how they were trained intheir program, like their
program of study, and then afterthat, if they have certain
(20:58):
trainings that they're able toadd more specialized training or
treatment approaches.
That's like EMDR you have to beable to show that you have the
certification or the ability todo these through certain
training protocols.
So that's where patients mayhear something interesting, but
(21:22):
they may not have access to atherapist who has that specific
training.
And that's where, again, that'swhere they might want to do
more homework and that's whereagain they can.
That's where they might want todo more homework.
And gosh, I'm interested in,not just like, what type of
therapist do I want to see, likemale or female, or, but what
kind of therapy approach soundsreally interesting?
That may work very well for myissue or my personality.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah, so beyond gender, it's like specialization
and then personality, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Definitely.
And then, once you meet them, Ithink that's where you kind of
get a better flair for how theirpersonality may interact with
what kind of therapy approachthey're using, and I think our
patients are not educated onthat.
Oh, absolutely not, you knowwhen you go to the doctor,
you're you know you have to seea podiatrist.
If it's for, you know, orthey're saying you know I can do
(22:11):
this for you, but it looks likeyou're having trouble with your
feet so I have to refer you toa podiatrist.
Because so it's, it's, it's nodifferent with your therapist.
There are certain things thatthat we specialize in, that we
would have to make referrals.
There are certain treatmentsthat we can offer, and if
there's something that you wantthat we can't offer, we try to
(22:35):
help you find a therapist who'strained in that approach.
So hopefully that definitelyhelps our listeners get bigger
insight on when they'retherapist shopping too, to that
you definitely can look for whatyou need and what you want, and
that that's something that canfit.
Um, and I think personality isa big, a big player yeah, for
(22:57):
sure great questions.
So the other thing I want tobring up before we shut down is
uh, I did have I do havepatients sometimes, but one in
particular when I was firststarting out.
That's where they said thistherapy has been very helpful,
and so I was curious.
Okay, but you were in therapyfor years before.
(23:19):
You know what's different.
You know about this Because Iwas very curious and I said how
was it with your other?
And they were really having adifficult time explaining it and
they just said well, it justseemed like I was going out for
coffee with them.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Right, it's like a casual conversation.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yes, and I just said it, should you know?
Yeah, oh, thank you, becauseyou should never feel like
you're going out for coffee withyour therapist.
We're not your friend, we'renot your um, we're not a family
member, we're not somebody thatis a cash.
You know there is arelationship of this is your
(23:59):
doctor, this is your therapistand you're.
There's that clear boundary.
And so if, if it's a check-inthat you can do with your friend
, that's not what the kind ofwork you do with your therapist,
unless that's very detailed.
That that's part ofrelationship building, but that
(24:22):
should only last so long.
I mean, that's the piece of it.
If somebody to me and this ismy thinking, and you know, maybe
somebody other therapists donot believe this is what I think
, though it should never feellike a friendship or a casual
going out for coffee kind ofthing.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
And so I think that's where I tell people yes, no,
you definitely want to enjoyyour sessions, you want to enjoy
your therapist, make sure thatthey're a good fit, but that you
should be very clear on thework that's being done in there,
so you know that there's atreatment plan and that you are
leaving feeling like you'remeeting those goals of getting
(25:02):
getting the relief that you need.
That you could not get fromgoing out for coffee with a
friend or a casual conversationwith people, it's got to be
deeper than that oh, I mean,well, yes, and therapy is, it's,
it's something that this is ourspecialty.
Uh, we build for services.
So, and I, I'll tell patientsthat if, um, if their phone
(25:26):
rings in session and they wantwant to excuse me, I'm going to
answer this.
I'm, I just think, okay, that'syou know, you're paying me
right now, but if you would, youknow, want to spend time on the
phone and I'd rather be workingwith you, but that's your call.
(25:58):
Yeah, do you know?
So it is.
And I have to remind peoplethat when they come in, yeah,
when the treatment plan is goingso long, I mean you're billing
per session.
So I think it's part of theirawareness of that.
Yeah, your therapist has to bevery mindful of that too.
(26:18):
And just not, you know, theyshould be updating you on where
they're going, where theprogress is be monitoring.
So that's just some otherthings to think about when you
get into a relationship.
And, yeah, time frame, I meanthat's what I would like to know
if I'm getting into somethingthat I'm paying for.
How many weeks, how manysessions, how long are these,
(26:41):
what do they cost?
How do I know when we're done?
These are all the kinds ofthings that people have
questions about that may not getanswered up front.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Okay, so I think this was a lot of good information.
Hopefully we followed up onsome of the questions and if you
haven't listened to the episode, it was I think it was titled
Hidden Truth, that yourtherapist may not share, but it
was the last episode that waspublished, so definitely go to
(27:20):
Psychologist Say and download.
And thanks for joining us.
Thank you, harold.
Great, I know you're mindspinning.
You have a lot more questions.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
So we will definitely have a lot more, many more
conversations about this, butwe'll sign off for today,
miigwetch, for listening, andwe'll see you later.
Ps.
Finding the right therapist isjust like shopping, so take your
time, do your research andinvest wisely.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.