July 1, 2024 • 36 mins
Have you ever wondered how trauma shapes our minds and bodies? Join Dr. Tami and Harold on the "PsychologistSay" podcast as she engages in a conversation about unraveling the complexities of trauma and PTSD in honor of National Awareness Month for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Dr. Tami kicks off the episode by identifying how trauma manifests through both direct and vicarious experiences, leaving lasting imprints on our mental and emotional health. Learn practical tips to safeguard yourself from vicarious trauma, especially when dealing with triggering content.
Next, we venture into how trauma is perceived differently by each individual. Using familiar scenarios, such as the disappointment of not making a sports team versus the terror of surviving a car accident, we illuminate how personal history and perception play pivotal roles in shaping traumatic experiences. We also delve into the physiological responses that follow trauma, emphasizing that every person's reaction is unique and worth understanding.
Finally, Dr. Tami explores the spectrum of trauma responses, from acute stress to PTSD, providing a clear distinction between different levels of trauma and their impacts. Through relatable examples like encountering a bobcat, she explains the natural fight, flight, or freeze responses and how the brain stores frightening memories. We discuss the various treatments available for trauma and stress reactions, offering hope and practical advice for those affected. Additionally, we address historical and generational trauma, particularly within Indian country, underscoring the critical role of psychological treatment in healing these deep-rooted wounds. Tune in for an enlightening discussion that aims to foster understanding and offer strategies for recovery.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The following is a series of candid conversations.
The content is intended forinformational purposes only and
is not a substitute for seekinghelp from a mental health care
professional.
To learn more info regardingadditional disclaimers, privacy
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HelloDrTammycom.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Bonjour, welcome to Psychologist Say, a podcast
where I talk about thepsychology of everyday living.
I'm your host, Dr Tammy, andI'm joined by co-host Harold.
How are you doing today, Harold?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I'm doing great, dr Tammy, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I'm awesome.
I know today we actually aregoing to have a conversation
that's a bit of a heavy hitter,I would call it.
It's focusing on trauma a bit,and so I just want to have a
conversation about that,especially because it is
(01:01):
National Awareness Month forpost-Traumatic Stress Disorder,
and so I think it's a reallygood time for us to kind of
explain what that is.
I don't want to go into a wholelot of detail.
I just want to start a smallconversation I know it's
something that is very complexand will take multiple episodes
(01:23):
to talk about all of thedifferent angles associated with
what it is and the differentlevels and the way that trauma
can affect somebody.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Right, so trauma specifically, or are we talking
about PTSD?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Right, great question , so let's just get right into
it.
So when somebody experiences atrauma and now for our listeners
, again, remember this is atrigger warning.
We're not purposely trying tobring up memories or have people
feel uncomfortable, yet justtalking about trauma and
(02:03):
exploring some of this andlistening can be a bit
triggering for people.
So I just want to put thatdisclaimer out there Be very
aware of what your needs are andwhen you're listening, you can
always take a break, pause, seekout resources online if you're
feeling concerned about anythinglike this.
So I just want to do that againthis episode.
(02:26):
Harold did have an experiencewhere he felt a bit activated,
right, oh, for sure.
Okay, good, so that's animportant thing I think that I
even want to talk about isanytime that you listen to
individuals talking aboutsomething traumatic.
So something that's traumaticis something that has, it's an
(02:49):
injury, it's a hurt that is bigenough to impact and kind of
shake you a bit.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Like the injury of a mind.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Definitely.
I mean part of trauma impactsthe way your brain encodes
information, what it remembers,what it stores, and it impacts
your emotion.
But it also is really visceraland it's stored in your body, is
(03:24):
hurtful and opposite of whatyou would expect to happen,
something that you are feelingvery threatened or danger and
extreme heightened, of notfeeling safe because of an
incident, and that's somethingthat people can refer to as an
actual trauma and that'ssomething that people can refer
(03:46):
to as an actual trauma.
And so a trauma is somethingthat basically you experience,
that's living it.
It can be vicarious, where it'shappening to somebody else, but
you're witnessing it, okay, oryou're even hearing it, so it's
(04:14):
a sensory experience thatbasically scares the shit out of
you.
I mean that's you know, forlack of a better way to explain
it.
It shakes you to your core, itscares you, okay.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
So kind of summarize what you just said.
There it's some kind ofterrifying situation that you
may not experience yourself.
You could witness it or hear it, and that memory is stored in
your mind and body.
Perfect, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
It's a sensory, it is a mental picture.
It is something that your bodyis, your brain is saying okay,
that was dangerous.
We need to remember everyaspect of it to the best of our
ability so that we can avoidthat in the future.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So dangerous, so does it necessarily have to be
something that a dangeroussituation?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
something that a dangerous situation well and and
well, it's pairing it withsomething um like so, when we
look at the the term ptsd, it'sexperiencing something, or
seeing something, or feelingsomething, where you you were
felt threatened for your life.
Okay, so it's.
It's something that shockedyour system and really had you
fearful for your survival inthat mode.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
So that's where you can say, okay, oh, this.
You know, I never experiencedthat, but, boy, I've seen that
we can witness something wheresomebody else was in a situation
where they maybe werethreatened, and it can scare our
, shock, our system as well.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
So we live almost like vicariously through that
another person's experience, ina way.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Right, that's one way and many people don't.
They aren't aware of that.
Many people don't.
They aren't aware of that.
So I'll often tell people ifyou can avoid looking at things,
if you know.
It's a tendency sometimes whenthere's something that happened,
it could be like maybe a motorvehicle accident.
(06:38):
Yeah, I would actually say lookaway, you know, if it's
something that where it'salready, where people are taking
care of it, you know theauthorities right If you don't
have the option to act.
Right, there you go.
Perfect, thank you.
And so it's more about protectyourself, because your brain
(06:58):
will encode that you may seesomething that is difficult for
you to forget, and your brainwill put you in that situation
and it can re-experience that ata later date.
And so it's almost.
It's where it's good to knowthis.
(07:19):
Even watching certain moviescan be very triggering for some
people, yeah, and they can getactivated and I would then say,
okay, so why are you watchingthat?
Then, if it is having thisresponse to you, can you limit
your exposure to that versus?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, yeah.
So to build off of that, let'suse the car accident example.
Someone experienced or saw acar accident and saw something
that changed them.
They could experience that whenwatching a movie.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
They may not know that it's related to that, but
that's kind of this awareness ofvicarious.
So it's being very aware ofwhat you're listening to.
When somebody else has beenhurt or traumatized or
experienced something verydifficult and they want to talk
(08:21):
to you about it, and they wantto talk to you about it, that's
good awareness that you may beimpacted and feel some of that
trauma by listening to thedetails.
Your brain starts to listen tothis information and it can
start to impact you.
Yeah, so those are the thingsthat I think are and that's why
(08:44):
I started off with.
Today we're talking a bit abouttrauma because it is PTSD
Awareness Month, but I'm veryaware that we have to take this
talk very slow and just getstarted a bit with it, because I
believe so many people are notaware of how triggers work and
(09:08):
that's part of, I think, ourprofessional responsibility as
psychologists and therapists isto make sure you know that
vulnerability that people couldhave when you're starting to
talk about trauma and evenexplaining it.
Yeah, people could have whenyou're starting to talk about
trauma and even explaining it.
Yeah, so it's a fine.
It's like I'm trying to balancethis.
(09:29):
We're giving some informationwithout overloading right now,
because I know each episode on.
Psychologists say we can takethis from another avenue and
people can learn and process anddigest a little bit more,
especially for those people whoare very unfamiliar with what
trauma is, what it looks like intheir life, and so even my
(09:53):
trainings, I start off with ahuge disclaimer and trying to
teach the grounding andunderstanding of what we are
about to talk about before Istart talking about it.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Right.
So for somebody who may havehad a traumatic experience and
they're, maybe, they're unsureof, maybe, how it affects them,
or if it is affecting them, howdo they come to the realization
that maybe it was stemming fromthat traumatic event, mm-hmm so
there's something that's verycommon After we experience
something, how did they come tothe realization that maybe it
was stemming from that traumaticevent?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So there's something that's very common After we
experience something that is andI can call it a hurt or an
injury, because sometimes we canhave these hurts that don't
necessarily qualify as a trauma,okay.
And so a trauma, something thatwas yucky, it didn't feel good,
it hurt us, yet we wouldn'tdefine that as traumatic unless
(10:51):
it was something that basically,like what I said, shook you to
your core, and so the wordtraumatic is way overused in our
society.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I kind of always thought that yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah.
So like people get oh my gosh,that was traumatic.
Yeah, you know, I hear that andI think well, you know,
everybody gets to definetraumatic, so it's not my job to
say no, that's not traumaticfor you.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
But it's as a do you get what I'm saying?
Yeah, I got an example.
Let's.
Let's say, say somebody worksreally hard at making the local
sports team and they don't makeit, and they're really hurt by
that.
Okay, that's not traumatic,right?
It should be something else.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Boy, that would be a tough one for me as a therapist.
I think I would struggle withthat.
To say that, no, I would saythat's a hurt.
Yeah, now remember, trauma issomething that's it feels
life-threatening.
Okay, boy, that was anemotionally jarring.
(12:03):
That really hurt that.
I didn't make that team.
Yeah, versus.
I just experienced somethingthat threatened my life.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah, I could have died.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I could have died, yeah, or I could have been
severely injured.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah injured.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
So that's where I think people really have to look
at the difference betweensomething that is emotionally
difficult and really sucks thatreally sucks.
That I didn't make the teamversus.
That was so traumatic that I'mshaken to my core and I'm maybe
(12:43):
having trouble sleeping.
I'm scared to do the things Iused to do.
I'm now avoiding any thoughtsor situations associated with
this.
So that's the kind ofdifference where PTSD can be
associated with those kind offactors.
(13:05):
So even somebody let's say,let's go back to a vehicle
accident where and this is NorthDakota, it's very common where
you could be driving and you hita deer, oh yeah, that can be
very traumatic to be driving in.
(13:28):
This unpredictable eventhappens, and if it was a
significant hit that triggeredand jarred and could have been
life-threatening and for some itis, it results in that, and for
(14:07):
some it is, it results in thatand then.
So it is very common for thenext time you drive, it's common
for some people to have thatreaction of oh my gosh,
increased heart rate,nervousness, scanning, hitting
the brakes more often it'scommon to have that increased
anxiety, stress and alertfulnessafter something like that would
happen, and would that occur,like every time they drive, or
maybe just now and then even?
I think that is more where it'swith, if it's associated with,
trauma.
A lot of times it's avoidanceof the situation.
So if they were driving in townmaybe, where they haven't seen
(14:29):
deer before, it wouldn't happen.
But if they were on the highway, the open road where the event
would have taken place.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
So those are the trigger warnings where your
brain starts to scan and go okay, we're on the open road.
Now.
This was the last time you wereon a road like this.
This deer came out, hit yourcar.
So guess what?
I'm going to have you veryscared and worried and
hypervigilant, like very aware,so that you can be prepared and
(15:02):
try to basically your mind'sthinking.
I can try to avoid doing thisagain.
Yet what our body's doing isre-experiencing it as if it's
happening.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, so you're constantly on edge.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
You're on edge, you're nervous, and this isn't
everybody, remember, yep, somepeople can hit a deer and go oh
wow, that was horrific.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Is my car okay?
Is my car okay?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Good example.
There are people and that'sokay.
I wish I could be more likethat.
You know where it's, it's, it'smy brain goes oh okay.
Well, now you got to go throughinsurance and and not maybe
focus on, wow, I could have, Icould have lost my life, I could
have hurt somebody else, whatif you know?
(15:48):
What if, what if I swear youknow?
And so all these like reallyscary thoughts that accompany an
event like that.
So it is a matter of how peopleperceive and what they focus on
.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
So okay, so I hit a deer last year, okay, and my
response was like I just said,you know, is my truck, okay, oh
man, just this little panel cameoff, oh, we're good, just kept
driving.
So you could have, let's say, atraumatic experience, but not
feel trauma, or not.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Right, and with that you know you could look at that
as well.
That was a that.
Maybe that wasn't traumatic.
You hit it on the side.
Your car was dent.
Now, if we took that sameincident with somebody else and
where the deer hit them straight, went through the windshield or
something.
(16:46):
So that's where you start tolook at it from a level of wow,
that threatened my life.
I think it would be really hardfor anybody to go whoa, how's
my car?
If the event was this, deer iskind of coming up towards their
windshield.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yep, oh yeah, that'd be a whole different experience.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yep, yep.
So I think this is where we'regetting into these great details
of when people would overuse aword and now it's like, wow,
that was, that was intense even,or that was unexpected.
Yeah, that sucked, that suckedversus well, that was so, that
(17:25):
was.
Oh.
I'm just traumatized now andthis is where now, hopefully,
individuals are helpingunderstand it just a bit in
terms of the level of threatthat we're feeling in that
moment, the level of threat thatwe're witnessing, even the
(17:46):
level of threat or harm thatwe're hearing or harm that we're
hearing.
So those are things that areall part of where somebody can
experience this level of whattrauma is, depending on what the
event is and what theirperception and how their
(18:07):
understanding of it is.
So it's in.
I mean, another way to getreally complex is it can also
really relate to how much pasttraumas you've had or hurts that
are multiplying and compoundingthis stress response.
Okay, so that one's you know soCan you give me an example grew
(18:48):
up in a very dysfunctional homewhere there was, they were
witnessing, maybe notexperiencing.
They don't realize that thatcould.
That.
That's part of what traumacould look like, you know, until
sometimes, when you listen towhat's going on and listen to
symptoms.
They may then go oh wow, okay.
(19:10):
So so I was actually living ina pretty traumatic child, you
know, pretty traumatic.
I was hearing these things, Iwas seeing things that were
threatening or hurtful, I wasscared, I didn't feel safe.
Where, as adults or when I workwith little kids, it's
(19:42):
understanding that these areasit's very natural for us to feel
.
It's kind of like whensomething traumatic happens, you
kind of start to view the worldas either safe or unsafe, okay,
and so there's this feeling ofI'm not safe because I feel like
(20:03):
I used to be, but this hashappened now.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
It changes your worldview.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Your view?
Yes, and so after repeatedincidents of something happening
and they can be different thenit's just adding more and more
trauma to something that hasalready happened and that some
people actually look more likethey have complex trauma.
(20:30):
Okay, so that's what I mean.
There's so many levels of wherewe can talk about.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, I've never even heard of complex trauma.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Right and most people wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And it's something that, as a clinician who is
trained and we work a lot withtrauma and try to keep up it's
looking at noticing how a lot ofthings that could look like
several things, like mooddisorders, sleep disorders,
(21:05):
anger issues, poor concentration, difficulties in relationships
and all these things sometimescan be looking at a history of
how many traumatic events.
What has led to this and it'snot just as simple as oh that's.
You know you experienced thisincident and it's normal for you
(21:30):
to have some heightenedadjustment, so that's like an
acute stress.
So, like I said, after you hitafter somebody maybe hits a deer
and it was pretty um scary andcould have been life threatening
normal for a couple months whenyou're driving on that open
road to get a, to get a bittense.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Uh, to have a bit of worry and fear that it may
happen again.
Um, maybe even want to avoid it.
Have somebody drive for you fora while, right?
Speaker 1 (21:57):
So acute stress as in Within those few months, right.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Short term, short term, and so that's a lot of
people can go through that,where it doesn't turn into this
full PTSD, okay, and anxiety,and they're unwanted, but
(22:31):
they're popping up, sometimeshaving dreams or even, you know,
kind of having a little bit offlashback.
You know some people can jumpwhile they're driving, yeah,
like reflexes yeah like they seemaybe a leaf blowing across,
and then they think it's a yeahyeah.
Yep, so that's that startleresponse.
So that's all.
A lot of times after an event,some people will experience that
(22:55):
and it'll naturally just kindof go down after.
Let's say, they continue todrive the more they face it
versus avoid and the more timesthey drive without it happening.
Eventually then they can goback down to a baseline.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, they become normal, I guess.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Try to be not so affected where, okay, that
happened.
But eventually they're startingto feel safe again.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, for the most part, they can still have
intrusive thoughts.
Oh yes of course, of theincident, but most of the time
they're not as startled.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Their body isn't reacting, they're not jumping,
or that avoidance isn't there.
So they're, oh, okay, yep.
So all of a sudden they'redriving and they're realizing oh
wow, I didn't even think abouthitting a deer today.
I just actually made it to youknow.
So it's a natural, that's verycommon.
A lot of times that's whatpeople can experience, can
(23:55):
experience Now, when thosesymptoms that I talked about go
on.
Then you're looking at wherethat event was traumatic enough,
where your brain is holdingonto it and it's storing it as
this fear and the body's storingit and it's very difficult to
let it go.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
You know, it's very difficult to tell yourself well,
that's just a memory, it's notgoing to happen.
Your brain is, and when wethink about it it's almost like
the brain doesn't realize.
It starts to re-experience asif you're there.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Mm-hmm, and that's all just from my understanding
of what you're talking abouthere.
That's all just kind of a Iwant to say, a defense mechanism
, in a way to protect ourselvesfrom the world.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
That's a survival mechanism.
Survival mechanism, yeah, thisis our survival and this is the
way our body stores terrifyinginformation.
Yeah, we are built to survive,so when something threatens our
life, our existence, then it'ssomething that we take note of.
(25:01):
We try to remember it the bestwe can.
Our body stores it because it'sjust like.
This is something that you haveto be very aware is out there
and for your survival.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yep, so I was just thinking of a little example of
like assuming we'rehunter-gatherers back in the day
, there you go.
And we're picking berries andwe hear a stick crack, right,
and we turn around.
It's a bobcat or whatever.
Right.
Stick crack, right.
And we turn around, it's abobcat or whatever.
Right, and we get away.
But every time we hear thatstick crack, we get tense, we
(25:39):
get your fight or flight.
Fight or flight.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yep, your nervous system is set up to trigger
survival mode when we feelthreatened.
And so that stick, you knowthat crack, you know that, even
event happening once turningaround and there's a bobcat yeah
, that is.
(26:01):
Even though the bobcat did notattack, the brain thought okay,
this right.
We could die here.
We could die here, and thenervous system turns on the
sympathetic that's your fight orflight.
And so and there's, that's thething of a lot of people pair,
(26:27):
like in one time incident thatmay have only happened once in
life, but you said every timeafter that I step on a stick,
I'm outside.
You know, this is way back inthe day.
That's the response thattriggers our brain to then think
oh, no right, because this onetime that bobcat.
(26:49):
So our brain doesn't know thedifference.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
It re-experiences that.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Just reacting.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Reacting, even though you turn around, there's
nothing there.
Heart's racing.
You're ready to run?
Some people just run, yeah, andthat's the flight.
So, individuals, when we'refeeling threatened, you know, a
lot of people say, oh boy, Ijust started yelling or I just
(27:16):
start punching, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
That's the fight, that's the fight.
And so, bobcat, you either haveto fight that off or you have
to run away.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Freeze isn't an option here.
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Freeze is an option.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Oh, it is Many people are frozen.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
They're standing and they're frozen frozen.
So those are the situationsthat can come up where you're
scared and your body is puttingyou in that safety mode of just
freeze.
And that's the piece ofunderstanding when a lot of
(27:58):
people are re-traumatized.
You know, when I said somepeople can go through multiple
traumas and not even realizethey're kind of in these.
It's like how come I'm notlearning from some of these
things that are happening?
Why am I kind of in the samesituation and I'm traumatized
again?
Some of these individuals,they're in a freeze mode.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, Some of these individuals.
They're in a freeze mode.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yeah, so they're experiencing the trauma and
they're in a situation and theycould be re-traumatized because
they just stop freeze andthey're unable to react, they're
unable to fight something off,they're unable to run, their
system is freezing.
Now that's a whole nother.
(28:45):
So I'm just going to give us tostart to think about that a bit
.
Yep, Okay, Wow, Really good.
I mean, this is really.
I know you have a lot ofquestions that are really good
and I think that for now we canat least just say we started to
talk about what PTSD is andthat's called post-traumatic
(29:08):
stress disorder.
I don't even know if I saidthat in the beginning.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
I don't remember.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
And so I apologize to our listeners, but what that is
is the experience of somethingthat is traumatic, and we've
went through that.
Some people just find them aslittle T's or big T's, where
it's like a big T could be amajor, significant trauma.
(29:34):
Little T's could be somethingthat was traumatic, scary, yet
maybe not as intense, definitelynot as intense or life altering
, and so that one I do strugglewith that when I it's the way
that they talk about it in youknow psychology and it's a way
(29:54):
to try to help people understand.
Yet that's where I said it'sindividual.
So what could be?
I may consider a little T formy life.
My client may be looking at thatas a big T because, based off
of their level, of how theyinterpret it, or not a T at all,
(30:15):
or it could you know, yes, itcould be well, was that more of
a psychological injury?
Was that more of a really scarything that happened versus.
You know that's part of whenyou're with the therapist, being
able to have those discussionsand identify what all the
(30:36):
different criteria.
You know what's happening here.
What all the different criteria.
You know what's happening here.
How much has this impacted yourlife?
What part of your safety wasthreatened.
How much control did you feellike you had or lacked?
Oh, control, yeah that probablyplays a big part in all this too
(30:57):
.
Avoidance, you know, it'ssomething like I remember I said
it's something that just scaresthe shit out of you, it shocks
(31:21):
your system and it can reallytake apart and disable all of
your coping.
That's another thing where somepeople are like.
This has shaken me so much thestuff that used to work for me
to feel better isn't working.
My body is, you know,experiencing this, and those are
some of the symptoms.
Avoidance is a big one,avoidance of anything that makes
you remember, and it could beone event, it could be multiple
events, it could be some peoplecould have a combination of a
(31:44):
lot of little T's and then acouple big T's.
Some people can have a massiveT with a therapist who knows a
(32:07):
lot about trauma.
I think is really importantbecause we're trained in so many
different areas and I thinkthat trauma really becomes
almost an area of specialtywhere you really want somebody
at least who is very aware ofthe different levels and how
complex it could become, right,so, right now.
(32:29):
That was a really goodconversation.
Thank you for listening.
I do.
There is a national support forPTSD.
Definitely go online and dosome more reading on this.
Talk to professionals, you knowto understand this more.
(32:52):
Ptsd is definitely somethingyou don't want to tackle alone.
This is something that supportand guidance and working with
somebody who knows is a big partof understanding it and how to
even treat it.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Very treatable.
Very treatable.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Very treatable.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Oh, I just kind of figured it'd be complex.
Well, or it's complex buttreatable.
Maybe is that the.
There you go.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Oh, okay.
And when I say treatable, thereare treatments out there for
PTSD.
Yeah, there are treatments outthere for acute stress.
There are treatments out therefor those people who are having
stress reaction and they're notfully meeting criteria for PTSD.
(33:41):
They're not fully meetingcriteria for PTSD, but they're
having a lot of stressfulreaction related to something
that went on in life.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
So there's a path to some kind of relief.
Yes, always and at every level,I think.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
But there's a massive T, little t, not a T at all tea
, little tea, not a tea at alland not a tea at all.
There's still those hurts andinjuries that are
psychologically impacting us.
So those could be things likeapplying for that job you really
wanted and not getting, andfeeling that devastation, fear,
(34:19):
anxiety, changes in income.
You know all those kinds ofstress.
Those are all things that cancause a lot, of, a lot of these
fear and anxious symptoms.
And then so that's how theystart to see well, what's what's
a life stressor, what'ssomething that's happening
(34:42):
around me.
Life stressor, what's somethingthat's happening around me and
what is something that isactually something that is
traumatic and has caused me toeither witness or experience
something life-threatening, andprocess that at such a higher
level of what's going on.
Very good, okay.
(35:03):
So thank you for listening.
I know there's a lot ofquestions, but we will
definitely be, um, uh, having alot more conversations on this.
I we won't do them all in a row.
I mean these are psychologistssay.
We like to change it up everyepisode, but we will definitely
(35:24):
be revisiting this.
Some topics of historicaltrauma, generational trauma, all
of the great stuff for Indiancountry that we need to be
talking about with historicaltrauma.
So today we were keeping itvery clinical, on what I would
(35:45):
do as a psychologist and how Iwould explain it in terms of
looking at what could be PTSDversus like a stress reaction.
Great questions, harold, thankyou.
So PS, trauma and life hurtscan be very challenging for us.
Yet it's definitely somethingthat there's treatment, there
(36:10):
are things to do to help us copeand get through these traumas
in life.
Miigwech you.
The following is a series of candid conversations.
The content is intended forinformational purposes only and
is not a substitute for seekinghelp from a mental health care
professional.
To learn more info regardingadditional disclaimers, privacy
policies and terms andconditions, please visit
HelloDrTammycom.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Bonjour, welcome to Psychologist Say, a podcast
where I talk about thepsychology of everyday living.
I'm your host, Dr Tammy, andI'm joined by co-host Harold.
How are you doing today, Harold?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I'm doing great, dr Tammy, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I'm awesome.
I know today we actually aregoing to have a conversation
that's a bit of a heavy hitter,I would call it.
It's focusing on trauma a bit,and so I just want to have a
conversation about that,especially because it is
(01:01):
National Awareness Month forpost-Traumatic Stress Disorder,
and so I think it's a reallygood time for us to kind of
explain what that is.
I don't want to go into a wholelot of detail.
I just want to start a smallconversation I know it's
something that is very complexand will take multiple episodes
(01:23):
to talk about all of thedifferent angles associated with
what it is and the differentlevels and the way that trauma
can affect somebody.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Right, so trauma specifically, or are we talking
about PTSD?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Right, great question , so let's just get right into
it.
So when somebody experiences atrauma and now for our listeners
, again, remember this is atrigger warning.
We're not purposely trying tobring up memories or have people
feel uncomfortable, yet justtalking about trauma and
(02:03):
exploring some of this andlistening can be a bit
triggering for people.
So I just want to put thatdisclaimer out there Be very
aware of what your needs are andwhen you're listening, you can
always take a break, pause, seekout resources online if you're
feeling concerned about anythinglike this.
So I just want to do that againthis episode.
(02:26):
Harold did have an experiencewhere he felt a bit activated,
right, oh, for sure.
Okay, good, so that's animportant thing I think that I
even want to talk about isanytime that you listen to
individuals talking aboutsomething traumatic.
So something that's traumaticis something that has, it's an
(02:49):
injury, it's a hurt that is bigenough to impact and kind of
shake you a bit.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Like the injury of a mind.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Definitely.
I mean part of trauma impactsthe way your brain encodes
information, what it remembers,what it stores, and it impacts
your emotion.
But it also is really visceraland it's stored in your body, is
(03:24):
hurtful and opposite of whatyou would expect to happen,
something that you are feelingvery threatened or danger and
extreme heightened, of notfeeling safe because of an
incident, and that's somethingthat people can refer to as an
actual trauma and that'ssomething that people can refer
(03:46):
to as an actual trauma.
And so a trauma is somethingthat basically you experience,
that's living it.
It can be vicarious, where it'shappening to somebody else, but
you're witnessing it, okay, oryou're even hearing it, so it's
(04:14):
a sensory experience thatbasically scares the shit out of
you.
I mean that's you know, forlack of a better way to explain
it.
It shakes you to your core, itscares you, okay.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
So kind of summarize what you just said.
There it's some kind ofterrifying situation that you
may not experience yourself.
You could witness it or hear it, and that memory is stored in
your mind and body.
Perfect, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
It's a sensory, it is a mental picture.
It is something that your bodyis, your brain is saying okay,
that was dangerous.
We need to remember everyaspect of it to the best of our
ability so that we can avoidthat in the future.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So dangerous, so does it necessarily have to be
something that a dangeroussituation?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
something that a dangerous situation well and and
well, it's pairing it withsomething um like so, when we
look at the the term ptsd, it'sexperiencing something, or
seeing something, or feelingsomething, where you you were
felt threatened for your life.
Okay, so it's.
It's something that shockedyour system and really had you
fearful for your survival inthat mode.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
So that's where you can say, okay, oh, this.
You know, I never experiencedthat, but, boy, I've seen that
we can witness something wheresomebody else was in a situation
where they maybe werethreatened, and it can scare our
, shock, our system as well.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
So we live almost like vicariously through that
another person's experience, ina way.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Right, that's one way and many people don't.
They aren't aware of that.
Many people don't.
They aren't aware of that.
So I'll often tell people ifyou can avoid looking at things,
if you know.
It's a tendency sometimes whenthere's something that happened,
it could be like maybe a motorvehicle accident.
(06:38):
Yeah, I would actually say lookaway, you know, if it's
something that where it'salready, where people are taking
care of it, you know theauthorities right If you don't
have the option to act.
Right, there you go.
Perfect, thank you.
And so it's more about protectyourself, because your brain
(06:58):
will encode that you may seesomething that is difficult for
you to forget, and your brainwill put you in that situation
and it can re-experience that ata later date.
And so it's almost.
It's where it's good to knowthis.
(07:19):
Even watching certain moviescan be very triggering for some
people, yeah, and they can getactivated and I would then say,
okay, so why are you watchingthat?
Then, if it is having thisresponse to you, can you limit
your exposure to that versus?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, yeah.
So to build off of that, let'suse the car accident example.
Someone experienced or saw acar accident and saw something
that changed them.
They could experience that whenwatching a movie.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
They may not know that it's related to that, but
that's kind of this awareness ofvicarious.
So it's being very aware ofwhat you're listening to.
When somebody else has beenhurt or traumatized or
experienced something verydifficult and they want to talk
(08:21):
to you about it, and they wantto talk to you about it, that's
good awareness that you may beimpacted and feel some of that
trauma by listening to thedetails.
Your brain starts to listen tothis information and it can
start to impact you.
Yeah, so those are the thingsthat I think are and that's why
(08:44):
I started off with.
Today we're talking a bit abouttrauma because it is PTSD
Awareness Month, but I'm veryaware that we have to take this
talk very slow and just getstarted a bit with it, because I
believe so many people are notaware of how triggers work and
(09:08):
that's part of, I think, ourprofessional responsibility as
psychologists and therapists isto make sure you know that
vulnerability that people couldhave when you're starting to
talk about trauma and evenexplaining it.
Yeah, people could have whenyou're starting to talk about
trauma and even explaining it.
Yeah, so it's a fine.
It's like I'm trying to balancethis.
(09:29):
We're giving some informationwithout overloading right now,
because I know each episode on.
Psychologists say we can takethis from another avenue and
people can learn and process anddigest a little bit more,
especially for those people whoare very unfamiliar with what
trauma is, what it looks like intheir life, and so even my
(09:53):
trainings, I start off with ahuge disclaimer and trying to
teach the grounding andunderstanding of what we are
about to talk about before Istart talking about it.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Right.
So for somebody who may havehad a traumatic experience and
they're, maybe, they're unsureof, maybe, how it affects them,
or if it is affecting them, howdo they come to the realization
that maybe it was stemming fromthat traumatic event, mm-hmm so
there's something that's verycommon After we experience
something, how did they come tothe realization that maybe it
was stemming from that traumaticevent?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So there's something that's very common After we
experience something that is andI can call it a hurt or an
injury, because sometimes we canhave these hurts that don't
necessarily qualify as a trauma,okay.
And so a trauma, something thatwas yucky, it didn't feel good,
it hurt us, yet we wouldn'tdefine that as traumatic unless
(10:51):
it was something that basically,like what I said, shook you to
your core, and so the wordtraumatic is way overused in our
society.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I kind of always thought that yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah.
So like people get oh my gosh,that was traumatic.
Yeah, you know, I hear that andI think well, you know,
everybody gets to definetraumatic, so it's not my job to
say no, that's not traumaticfor you.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
But it's as a do you get what I'm saying?
Yeah, I got an example.
Let's.
Let's say, say somebody worksreally hard at making the local
sports team and they don't makeit, and they're really hurt by
that.
Okay, that's not traumatic,right?
It should be something else.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Boy, that would be a tough one for me as a therapist.
I think I would struggle withthat.
To say that, no, I would saythat's a hurt.
Yeah, now remember, trauma issomething that's it feels
life-threatening.
Okay, boy, that was anemotionally jarring.
(12:03):
That really hurt that.
I didn't make that team.
Yeah, versus.
I just experienced somethingthat threatened my life.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah, I could have died.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I could have died, yeah, or I could have been
severely injured.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah injured.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
So that's where I think people really have to look
at the difference betweensomething that is emotionally
difficult and really sucks thatreally sucks.
That I didn't make the teamversus.
That was so traumatic that I'mshaken to my core and I'm maybe
(12:43):
having trouble sleeping.
I'm scared to do the things Iused to do.
I'm now avoiding any thoughtsor situations associated with
this.
So that's the kind ofdifference where PTSD can be
associated with those kind offactors.
(13:05):
So even somebody let's say,let's go back to a vehicle
accident where and this is NorthDakota, it's very common where
you could be driving and you hita deer, oh yeah, that can be
very traumatic to be driving in.
(13:28):
This unpredictable eventhappens, and if it was a
significant hit that triggeredand jarred and could have been
life-threatening and for some itis, it results in that, and for
(14:07):
some it is, it results in thatand then.
So it is very common for thenext time you drive, it's common
for some people to have thatreaction of oh my gosh,
increased heart rate,nervousness, scanning, hitting
the brakes more often it'scommon to have that increased
anxiety, stress and alertfulnessafter something like that would
happen, and would that occur,like every time they drive, or
maybe just now and then even?
I think that is more where it'swith, if it's associated with,
trauma.
A lot of times it's avoidanceof the situation.
So if they were driving in townmaybe, where they haven't seen
(14:29):
deer before, it wouldn't happen.
But if they were on the highway, the open road where the event
would have taken place.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
So those are the trigger warnings where your
brain starts to scan and go okay, we're on the open road.
Now.
This was the last time you wereon a road like this.
This deer came out, hit yourcar.
So guess what?
I'm going to have you veryscared and worried and
hypervigilant, like very aware,so that you can be prepared and
(15:02):
try to basically your mind'sthinking.
I can try to avoid doing thisagain.
Yet what our body's doing isre-experiencing it as if it's
happening.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, so you're constantly on edge.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
You're on edge, you're nervous, and this isn't
everybody, remember, yep, somepeople can hit a deer and go oh
wow, that was horrific.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Is my car okay?
Is my car okay?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Good example.
There are people and that'sokay.
I wish I could be more likethat.
You know where it's, it's, it'smy brain goes oh okay.
Well, now you got to go throughinsurance and and not maybe
focus on, wow, I could have, Icould have lost my life, I could
have hurt somebody else, whatif you know?
(15:48):
What if, what if I swear youknow?
And so all these like reallyscary thoughts that accompany an
event like that.
So it is a matter of how peopleperceive and what they focus on
.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
So okay, so I hit a deer last year, okay, and my
response was like I just said,you know, is my truck, okay, oh
man, just this little panel cameoff, oh, we're good, just kept
driving.
So you could have, let's say, atraumatic experience, but not
feel trauma, or not.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Right, and with that you know you could look at that
as well.
That was a that.
Maybe that wasn't traumatic.
You hit it on the side.
Your car was dent.
Now, if we took that sameincident with somebody else and
where the deer hit them straight, went through the windshield or
something.
(16:46):
So that's where you start tolook at it from a level of wow,
that threatened my life.
I think it would be really hardfor anybody to go whoa, how's
my car?
If the event was this, deer iskind of coming up towards their
windshield.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yep, oh yeah, that'd be a whole different experience.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yep, yep.
So I think this is where we'regetting into these great details
of when people would overuse aword and now it's like, wow,
that was, that was intense even,or that was unexpected.
Yeah, that sucked, that suckedversus well, that was so, that
(17:25):
was.
Oh.
I'm just traumatized now andthis is where now, hopefully,
individuals are helpingunderstand it just a bit in
terms of the level of threatthat we're feeling in that
moment, the level of threat thatwe're witnessing, even the
(17:46):
level of threat or harm thatwe're hearing or harm that we're
hearing.
So those are things that areall part of where somebody can
experience this level of whattrauma is, depending on what the
event is and what theirperception and how their
(18:07):
understanding of it is.
So it's in.
I mean, another way to getreally complex is it can also
really relate to how much pasttraumas you've had or hurts that
are multiplying and compoundingthis stress response.
Okay, so that one's you know soCan you give me an example grew
(18:48):
up in a very dysfunctional homewhere there was, they were
witnessing, maybe notexperiencing.
They don't realize that thatcould.
That.
That's part of what traumacould look like, you know, until
sometimes, when you listen towhat's going on and listen to
symptoms.
They may then go oh wow, okay.
(19:10):
So so I was actually living ina pretty traumatic child, you
know, pretty traumatic.
I was hearing these things, Iwas seeing things that were
threatening or hurtful, I wasscared, I didn't feel safe.
Where, as adults or when I workwith little kids, it's
(19:42):
understanding that these areasit's very natural for us to feel
.
It's kind of like whensomething traumatic happens, you
kind of start to view the worldas either safe or unsafe, okay,
and so there's this feeling ofI'm not safe because I feel like
(20:03):
I used to be, but this hashappened now.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
It changes your worldview.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Your view?
Yes, and so after repeatedincidents of something happening
and they can be different thenit's just adding more and more
trauma to something that hasalready happened and that some
people actually look more likethey have complex trauma.
(20:30):
Okay, so that's what I mean.
There's so many levels of wherewe can talk about.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, I've never even heard of complex trauma.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Right and most people wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And it's something that, as a clinician who is
trained and we work a lot withtrauma and try to keep up it's
looking at noticing how a lot ofthings that could look like
several things, like mooddisorders, sleep disorders,
(21:05):
anger issues, poor concentration, difficulties in relationships
and all these things sometimescan be looking at a history of
how many traumatic events.
What has led to this and it'snot just as simple as oh that's.
You know you experienced thisincident and it's normal for you
(21:30):
to have some heightenedadjustment, so that's like an
acute stress.
So, like I said, after you hitafter somebody maybe hits a deer
and it was pretty um scary andcould have been life threatening
normal for a couple months whenyou're driving on that open
road to get a, to get a bittense.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Uh, to have a bit of worry and fear that it may
happen again.
Um, maybe even want to avoid it.
Have somebody drive for you fora while, right?
Speaker 1 (21:57):
So acute stress as in Within those few months, right.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Short term, short term, and so that's a lot of
people can go through that,where it doesn't turn into this
full PTSD, okay, and anxiety,and they're unwanted, but
(22:31):
they're popping up, sometimeshaving dreams or even, you know,
kind of having a little bit offlashback.
You know some people can jumpwhile they're driving, yeah,
like reflexes yeah like they seemaybe a leaf blowing across,
and then they think it's a yeahyeah.
Yep, so that's that startleresponse.
So that's all.
A lot of times after an event,some people will experience that
(22:55):
and it'll naturally just kindof go down after.
Let's say, they continue todrive the more they face it
versus avoid and the more timesthey drive without it happening.
Eventually then they can goback down to a baseline.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, they become normal, I guess.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Try to be not so affected where, okay, that
happened.
But eventually they're startingto feel safe again.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, for the most part, they can still have
intrusive thoughts.
Oh yes of course, of theincident, but most of the time
they're not as startled.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Their body isn't reacting, they're not jumping,
or that avoidance isn't there.
So they're, oh, okay, yep.
So all of a sudden they'redriving and they're realizing oh
wow, I didn't even think abouthitting a deer today.
I just actually made it to youknow.
So it's a natural, that's verycommon.
A lot of times that's whatpeople can experience, can
(23:55):
experience Now, when thosesymptoms that I talked about go
on.
Then you're looking at wherethat event was traumatic enough,
where your brain is holdingonto it and it's storing it as
this fear and the body's storingit and it's very difficult to
let it go.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
You know, it's very difficult to tell yourself well,
that's just a memory, it's notgoing to happen.
Your brain is, and when wethink about it it's almost like
the brain doesn't realize.
It starts to re-experience asif you're there.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Mm-hmm, and that's all just from my understanding
of what you're talking abouthere.
That's all just kind of a Iwant to say, a defense mechanism
, in a way to protect ourselvesfrom the world.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
That's a survival mechanism.
Survival mechanism, yeah, thisis our survival and this is the
way our body stores terrifyinginformation.
Yeah, we are built to survive,so when something threatens our
life, our existence, then it'ssomething that we take note of.
(25:01):
We try to remember it the bestwe can.
Our body stores it because it'sjust like.
This is something that you haveto be very aware is out there
and for your survival.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yep, so I was just thinking of a little example of
like assuming we'rehunter-gatherers back in the day
, there you go.
And we're picking berries andwe hear a stick crack, right,
and we turn around.
It's a bobcat or whatever.
Right.
Stick crack, right.
And we turn around, it's abobcat or whatever.
Right, and we get away.
But every time we hear thatstick crack, we get tense, we
(25:39):
get your fight or flight.
Fight or flight.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yep, your nervous system is set up to trigger
survival mode when we feelthreatened.
And so that stick, you knowthat crack, you know that, even
event happening once turningaround and there's a bobcat yeah
, that is.
(26:01):
Even though the bobcat did notattack, the brain thought okay,
this right.
We could die here.
We could die here, and thenervous system turns on the
sympathetic that's your fight orflight.
And so and there's, that's thething of a lot of people pair,
(26:27):
like in one time incident thatmay have only happened once in
life, but you said every timeafter that I step on a stick,
I'm outside.
You know, this is way back inthe day.
That's the response thattriggers our brain to then think
oh, no right, because this onetime that bobcat.
(26:49):
So our brain doesn't know thedifference.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
It re-experiences that.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Just reacting.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Reacting, even though you turn around, there's
nothing there.
Heart's racing.
You're ready to run?
Some people just run, yeah, andthat's the flight.
So, individuals, when we'refeeling threatened, you know, a
lot of people say, oh boy, Ijust started yelling or I just
(27:16):
start punching, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
That's the fight, that's the fight.
And so, bobcat, you either haveto fight that off or you have
to run away.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Freeze isn't an option here.
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Freeze is an option.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Oh, it is Many people are frozen.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
They're standing and they're frozen frozen.
So those are the situationsthat can come up where you're
scared and your body is puttingyou in that safety mode of just
freeze.
And that's the piece ofunderstanding when a lot of
(27:58):
people are re-traumatized.
You know, when I said somepeople can go through multiple
traumas and not even realizethey're kind of in these.
It's like how come I'm notlearning from some of these
things that are happening?
Why am I kind of in the samesituation and I'm traumatized
again?
Some of these individuals,they're in a freeze mode.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, Some of these individuals.
They're in a freeze mode.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yeah, so they're experiencing the trauma and
they're in a situation and theycould be re-traumatized because
they just stop freeze andthey're unable to react, they're
unable to fight something off,they're unable to run, their
system is freezing.
Now that's a whole nother.
(28:45):
So I'm just going to give us tostart to think about that a bit
.
Yep, Okay, Wow, Really good.
I mean, this is really.
I know you have a lot ofquestions that are really good
and I think that for now we canat least just say we started to
talk about what PTSD is andthat's called post-traumatic
(29:08):
stress disorder.
I don't even know if I saidthat in the beginning.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
I don't remember.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
And so I apologize to our listeners, but what that is
is the experience of somethingthat is traumatic, and we've
went through that.
Some people just find them aslittle T's or big T's, where
it's like a big T could be amajor, significant trauma.
(29:34):
Little T's could be somethingthat was traumatic, scary, yet
maybe not as intense, definitelynot as intense or life altering
, and so that one I do strugglewith that when I it's the way
that they talk about it in youknow psychology and it's a way
(29:54):
to try to help people understand.
Yet that's where I said it'sindividual.
So what could be?
I may consider a little T formy life.
My client may be looking at thatas a big T because, based off
of their level, of how theyinterpret it, or not a T at all,
(30:15):
or it could you know, yes, itcould be well, was that more of
a psychological injury?
Was that more of a really scarything that happened versus.
You know that's part of whenyou're with the therapist, being
able to have those discussionsand identify what all the
(30:36):
different criteria.
You know what's happening here.
What all the different criteria.
You know what's happening here.
How much has this impacted yourlife?
What part of your safety wasthreatened.
How much control did you feellike you had or lacked?
Oh, control, yeah that probablyplays a big part in all this too
(30:57):
.
Avoidance, you know, it'ssomething like I remember I said
it's something that just scaresthe shit out of you, it shocks
(31:21):
your system and it can reallytake apart and disable all of
your coping.
That's another thing where somepeople are like.
This has shaken me so much thestuff that used to work for me
to feel better isn't working.
My body is, you know,experiencing this, and those are
some of the symptoms.
Avoidance is a big one,avoidance of anything that makes
you remember, and it could beone event, it could be multiple
events, it could be some peoplecould have a combination of a
(31:44):
lot of little T's and then acouple big T's.
Some people can have a massiveT with a therapist who knows a
(32:07):
lot about trauma.
I think is really importantbecause we're trained in so many
different areas and I thinkthat trauma really becomes
almost an area of specialtywhere you really want somebody
at least who is very aware ofthe different levels and how
complex it could become, right,so, right now.
(32:29):
That was a really goodconversation.
Thank you for listening.
I do.
There is a national support forPTSD.
Definitely go online and dosome more reading on this.
Talk to professionals, you knowto understand this more.
(32:52):
Ptsd is definitely somethingyou don't want to tackle alone.
This is something that supportand guidance and working with
somebody who knows is a big partof understanding it and how to
even treat it.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Very treatable.
Very treatable.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Very treatable.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Oh, I just kind of figured it'd be complex.
Well, or it's complex buttreatable.
Maybe is that the.
There you go.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Oh, okay.
And when I say treatable, thereare treatments out there for
PTSD.
Yeah, there are treatments outthere for acute stress.
There are treatments out therefor those people who are having
stress reaction and they're notfully meeting criteria for PTSD.
(33:41):
They're not fully meetingcriteria for PTSD, but they're
having a lot of stressfulreaction related to something
that went on in life.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
So there's a path to some kind of relief.
Yes, always and at every level,I think.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
But there's a massive T, little t, not a T at all tea
, little tea, not a tea at alland not a tea at all.
There's still those hurts andinjuries that are
psychologically impacting us.
So those could be things likeapplying for that job you really
wanted and not getting, andfeeling that devastation, fear,
(34:19):
anxiety, changes in income.
You know all those kinds ofstress.
Those are all things that cancause a lot, of, a lot of these
fear and anxious symptoms.
And then so that's how theystart to see well, what's what's
a life stressor, what'ssomething that's happening
(34:42):
around me.
Life stressor, what's somethingthat's happening around me and
what is something that isactually something that is
traumatic and has caused me toeither witness or experience
something life-threatening, andprocess that at such a higher
level of what's going on.
Very good, okay.
(35:03):
So thank you for listening.
I know there's a lot ofquestions, but we will
definitely be, um, uh, having alot more conversations on this.
I we won't do them all in a row.
I mean these are psychologistssay.
We like to change it up everyepisode, but we will definitely
(35:24):
be revisiting this.
Some topics of historicaltrauma, generational trauma, all
of the great stuff for Indiancountry that we need to be
talking about with historicaltrauma.
So today we were keeping itvery clinical, on what I would
(35:45):
do as a psychologist and how Iwould explain it in terms of
looking at what could be PTSDversus like a stress reaction.
Great questions, harold, thankyou.
So PS, trauma and life hurtscan be very challenging for us.
Yet it's definitely somethingthat there's treatment, there
(36:10):
are things to do to help us copeand get through these traumas
in life.
Miigwech you.
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