The Gender Health Gap

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Have you ever wondered why we're still using euphemisms for female body parts in 2024? Or why your doctor dismissed pain that kept you bedridden for days? The shocking truth is that women's health remains shrouded in medical mystery —not because we lack the capability to understand it, but because we've systematically failed to prioritize it.

In this eye-opening conversation with Saskia and Lucy, founders of "What Nobody Told Us," we dive deep into the alarming gender health gap and its real-world consequences. When a December 2023 report revealed the dismal state of reproductive healthcare, these two friends decided enough was enough. They're now building a platform to provide the education many of us never received, challenging the status quo that has normalized women's pain and dismissed their concerns for generations.

The statistics are staggering: less than 2.5% of public funding goes toward reproductive health research, and females represent only 37% of clinical trial participants. This research gap means treatments developed for men are simply applied to women without proper testing. Meanwhile, women with conditions like endometriosis wait an average of eight years for diagnosis while being labeled "difficult" when they advocate for themselves.

Perhaps most troubling is how this medical gaslighting begins early. From hiding tampons up our sleeves as teenagers to being told severe menstrual pain is just something to endure, we internalize shame about normal bodily functions. Lucy, a doctor herself, describes the heartbreaking experience of watching patients light up when they finally feel heard—often for the first time in their healthcare journey.

Whether you're looking to understand your own body better or want to join the fight for healthcare equality, this conversation offers both validation and hope. The gender health gap wasn't created overnight, and closing it will take all of us speaking up, sharing stories, and refusing to accept pain and dismissal as inevitable parts of having a female reproductive system.

Follow @whatnobodytoldus on Instagram to join their growing movement and access the reproductive health information nobody told you —but everyone deserves to know.

Disclaimer: This podcast represents the opinions of Dr. Bridget Melton, MD and licensed therapist Marissa Volinsky, MS, LPC, NCC. The contents of our podcast and website should not be taken as medical advice. The contents of our podcast and website are for general informational purposes only, and are not intended to diagnose, treat, prevent, or cure any condition or disease or substitute for medical advice. Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional, or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before starting or discontinuing treatment.

If you or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or a crisis, please reach out immediately to the Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255 or text HOME to the Crisis Text Line at 741741. These services are free and confidential.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome back to Psychotic PY Podcast.
This is episode nine.
I cannot believe we've gottenhere this far.
We have two special guests thisweek with us, saskia and Lucy.
They have a platform calledwhat Nobody Told Us, so we're
really excited to have them joinus this week.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hi, hey, thanks.
We'll have you guys introduceyourselves as people and
professionals, but they're bothmoms and ladies who have a lot
to teach people, so take it away.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Hello, thank you so much for having us.
I am Saskia, I am a human beingand a woman and a mother, um,
and trying to spin all theplates that we all do, uh and
yeah, run recently set up whatnobody told us, together with
lucy um, with like I don't knowa mishmash of backgrounds, but

(00:57):
recently, like, I've spent a lotof time working in health care
and health technology, liketrying to bring new innovations
in across kind of women's healthand other spaces.
So I have kind of lived andbreathed this, both personally
and professionally, I would say,and Lucy and I are great old
friends Hi.

Speaker 4 (01:17):
I'm Lucy.
I'm a doctor, I am a mum andstep-mum of three girls, um, and
one what potentially a girl,don't know yet on the way.
Uh started off in a differentspecialty but now working in
general practice, so I've alwaysbeen really interested in

(01:38):
women's health and Saskia and I,as I said, we've been friends
for years and we've always hadthis like underlying thing where
we've wanted to work togetherand do something together
because this has been such apassion for us and it was just
finding our niche and how, howwe could put that, um, let's say
, passion anger.
There's a lot of anger.
I think yeah, I understand thatand I think becoming a doctor

(02:04):
later has definitely given me aconfidence of sort of going no,
no, it shouldn't, no, it doesn'thave to be like this.
And yeah, without going intotoo much of sort of more of what
we've been doing, I think it'sjust us coming together to be
like how can we make it betterfor other people?
Awesome.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
So how did the idea come to you guys?
Is it because you've beenfriends for so long?
So how did the idea come to?

Speaker 3 (02:33):
you guys.
Is it because you've beenfriends for so long?
This is something you guysalways just went back and forth
with, just talking aboutcasually, or was there one
triggering event that made yoube like that's it, we need to
help people?
Was one trigger?
But I mean, ever since Lucy andI became friends, uh, myself
and all of our other mates willturn to Lucy incessantly for any
kind of doctor advice.
Even before she had trained,had her medical training, she

(02:59):
was our font of knowledge and,um, we've kind of laughed about
that on and off, that Lucy'skind of our go-to, often before
our GPs, just for that initialsounding board.
So that was happening.
I was working, uh, in like anarea of women's health that was
focused on, uh, women's healthhubs, which is this really

(03:20):
brilliant initiative, all aboutdelivering kind of care to women
, like in specialist centers allaround the country, so you
would be able to go and youcould go and see a specialist
about your coil or aboutfertility or about kind of.
There were various differentthings they were going to focus
on and it just soundedincredible.
And then, when you kind of duga bit deeper, actually lots of

(03:43):
the funding hadn't been ringfenced and like swallowed up in
other things.
And all of the hubs not asweeping statement, but the
majority of the hubs that hadactually been set up were set up
by people like trailblazingwomen who were going to go above
and beyond, and I was just kindof there was that frustration
brewing.

(04:03):
Who were going to go above andbeyond and I was just kind of
there was that frustrationbrewing.
I was looking at my nownine-year-old daughter and
thinking like how are you goingto navigate all of this and how
am I going to help you when Istruggle to navigate it?
and I don't know like reallybasic answers.
So we were talking about thatand then in December, december
of last year's December 2024,this report landed called the

(04:27):
women's uh health, reproductiveconditions report, I think, and
it was looking into kind of anyprogress that had been made in
the current landscape foranything to do with reproductive
health and like long and shortof it is.
It's just shit like it's shit itwas shit before and it isn't
getting any better, and it wasjust such a harrowing read and I
turned to Lucy and I was likewhat is going on with this?

(04:50):
This is so bad and it's like atevery level, from kind of at the
education system how we teachchildren, even up to kind of
healthcare professionals nothaving the depth of knowledge in
areas that they need to so thatkind of started us talking um
about like what could be done totry and really, like you know,

(05:11):
actually make some change and dosomething positive.
Um, and so we turned to ourcommunity around us and we asked
them lots and lots of questionsand it turned out that really
like, apart from the doctorsthat we spoke to really knew
anything Like our basicknowledge about kind of these
reproductive health conditionsthat are really common, like

(05:33):
fibroids, like endometriosis,like you know the list of them,
even to like naming our ownanatomy, like it was just these
incredibly smart women who werelike don't know, and dimitrios
is something that lena dunhamhas, like that was the kind of
of the answers.
It was like, oh my gosh, youknow, this is something.
Yeah, we need to kind ofdiscuss it at this level.

(05:54):
So I think, yeah, lots of likeunder currents of fury over the
years, and then this, like thereport landed and the stats
which were all like swept acrossthe media, these like horrible
you know waiting list times andeight years for donate like that
I think was the was the thingthat made us go right.
This enough, yeah, let's tryand do something about it oh

(06:18):
good, that's a really goodanswer.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
So it was.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
It was like building for a while which is fueling the
fire yeah, absolutely, and Ithink, um, we just we knew we
wanted to do something togetherthat would that would sort of
try and tackle this.
But I think doing the surveyreally gave us the focus,
because it was just this echoover and over again from women

(06:41):
of why, why don't we know theanswers to these questions?
And, yeah, why?
Or, or people with you knowreproductive health issues.
Why is it a mystery until ithappens to me, so until I go
through some trauma, or until Ihave a child and have to explain
it to them?
Why is there this almost like15th century witchcraft

(07:03):
mysticism about I'm literallyhaving at the moment trying to
apply for mat leave and it'slike the full moon before you're
like, oh my god oh, my god thewording on the mat leave form.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
They make you do some crazy math.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
You're like I don't know why is it so still shrouded
in?
Yeah, like literally the wordconfinement, like it's still
used, and there's so much, somany things like that.
Keep going on.
Um, that, just yeah, wind us upno end.
And, and, yeah, that's wherethe name came from.
What nobody told us was was why.

(07:38):
Why are we just clueless for solong until it happens?
Yeah absolutely.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Um, what are some of the scariest knowledge gaps that
you've seen?
Like, what are some thingspeople ask you and you're like,
oh my gosh, we don't even knowthat?

Speaker 4 (07:54):
um, so I think I think what's what's scary is how
common some of the things are,are like it's, it's always quite
bitless, sounds, all the same,basic, but, um, it's the
frequency of the same thingscoming up and you just think,
how has this not come up soonerfor you?

(08:15):
Um, that genuinely worries me.
Also, not to sort of toot myown horn, but something that
really worries me is how often Iget, oh, I feel really listened
to.
Thank you, I've never feltlistened to like this and you're
like, okay, why?
And I now I have it.
I literally had it today and Ihave it most, maybe most weeks I

(08:39):
will see a girl age like 8 to12 and if it's anything where I
can get it in, I will be likeokay.
So let's practice talking todoctors and it's practice being
open with each other, becauseit's really important.
You're going to speak to somedoctors.
You maybe don't want to talkabout these things, and that's
okay.
You go to another doctorstraight after getting that in,
because I think it starts reallyyoung and I think that's the

(09:01):
fear, the scary thing, I getwhen I'm talking to women.
You know our age, or older, oryoung, whatever where I think,
okay, this is happening for youthe first time you're you're 40
like that really, that, reallyyeah but I think we would.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
We were discussing how, like and I don't know if
it's the same in the US, I don'tknow how like the education,
how it's tackled for children,but when we were at school, you
were basically just taught thatthe girls, you're gonna start
your period, you're gonna bleedevery month and this is.
You know, this is how long acycle is like.

(09:36):
Obviously, nobody's cycle islike that, but that's a side
point.
Um, it's gonna be reallypainful and like don't get
pregnant.
Like that was almost nothingelse beyond that.
There was no, no talk aboutkind of literally anything
beyond starting a period.
Um, and I've been kind of I'vetalked a bit on our platform and

(10:00):
like very openly with myfriends about how I was using
the wrong name, the wrong words,for my own anatomy until I was
like 31 and I went to thisincredible eve appeal event
which was all about like howimportant it was to name a
girl's and like a name femaleanatomy from like, like for your

(10:20):
, from your baby's age.
So you start kind of ratherthan using like no, no and all
these terrible words.
Sorry, I know that some peopleI'm looking at studs, I'd love
that one, but I don't and Iliterally there vulva and vagina
, and then obviously, nofandangos allowed here.

(10:43):
It's vulva and but I was like ohmy god, it's a vulva.
I've been calling it a vaginafor all these years and.
I had to go to my three-year-oldand be like, hey, you know,
we're being like really likeclever, and we said it was a
vagina.
It's actually not, it's a vulva.
And she was like what, what areyou talking about?
Um, but I and I've kind oftalked about that and how like,

(11:04):
oh, my god, it's so likeembarrassing.
I've got so much shame.
And then I've been thinkingabout it recently and I'm like
god, we, I mean as women, wecarry shame about so many things
, but like we were not taughtthis stuff, we weren't taught it
, we, there was just so manygaps of knowledge, and I think
that that I'm obviously comingat this not from a medical,
clinical background and thething, the thing that has amazed

(11:26):
me is just like at every singlestage, women are being let down
, and it's not like there isn'ta particular area where it's
like, um, yeah, where we'regetting loads of questions, it's
like the whole, the wholebreadth, um, and sometimes it is
as simple as like what is thename for this thing?

Speaker 2 (11:44):
It's like yeah yeah, yeah, I would say it's the same
in the States education wise,it's really just like this is
what a period is, and theyseparate boys and girls.
And then it wasn't until medschool where they were like, you
know, la, you know, and you'relike, oh what, there's like so
many different parts to thecycle, like I was like, how do I

(12:07):
not know this?

Speaker 1 (12:07):
I have this.
I think the only difference isfandango for us is where we buy
movie tickets, but that's theonly difference.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
It's like whole fanny bum situation all over again
yes, yeah yeah, um, yeah, Ithink I think also the shame
that comes with it all, like Iwant.
Something I really hate is soyou're grown up.
You grow up and you're toldlike, don't get pregnant, don't
get pregnant.
And then you try and getpregnant and it's quite hard
sometimes and for a lot ofpeople, and therefore you think

(12:39):
you're doing something wrong.
And it's only when you maybespeak to other women going
through the same thing orcertainly things like
miscarriage and you know,infertility, secondary whatever
it is.
I think the fact that becauseit's so, it's made to feel so
normal that you don't look at aboy.
You'll get pregnant.
When you're at school you think, well, I'm clearly doing

(13:00):
something or my body is doingsomething seriously wrong.
And I think that is wherethere's that intersection of
like shame and lack of educationand it's really really life
changing and upsetting for a lotof people that they don't have
the background knowledge ofthere's a time of the month
where it's more likely to happen.

(13:21):
Something as simple as thatisn't out there until you're in
your doctor's office six monthsafter trying to be like it's
more likely to happen.
Just something as simple asthat isn't out there until
you're at your in your doctor'soffice six months after trying
being like it's not happening.
Um, it shouldn't be constantrevelations yeah, that is the
big one.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Um, I would say people always are like wait,
what?

Speaker 4 (13:40):
like I have to do this when I'm ovulating and
you're like, yeah, otherwise itdoesn't really work which is now
this obsession with ovulationand spending loads of money on
ovulation sticks, and I'm like,well, if you peed on something
and it's go time, it may not bego time.
You may now be too late becausethose little guys need to be
sitting there waiting and thepressure that then couples are

(14:02):
putting on themselves.
And so you see that, and yousee couples, you know, arguing
and you're like, oh, no, like,because there's then the sort of
marketing angle of oh, it'sjust, yeah, it's really dark,
and it's like if you justunderstood your cycle when you
were 13 right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
And also like if you understood that you have a cycle
, that is your cycle that is notlike anybody else's cycle, and
that's something that I've likefound insane recently when you
kind of read up about like what,what is normal?
Because that's a big thingthat's coming up right now

(14:39):
around like what is normal.
It's like, actually, when itcomes to like women's health
stuff, there is not really anormal because our bodies are
incredible and they all do verydifferent things, but also
because there's never beenenough research so we don't
actually know what your body'sdoing, and that's a whole other
thing.
But particularly when it comesto periods, like everyone's

(15:00):
cycle is basically different,like it's it's unique, and I'm
saying that maybe stud is likeshut up, saskia, that's not
actually true.
But but like the recent,there's a study that I've you
guys might have seen in in theNew Yorker that was looking at
like a group of women and theytrack their menstrual cycles and
like nobody in that group of300, 400 women had anything that

(15:24):
resembled the.
The way that we kind of trackthis is and how many days, and
this and this and this and this,like nobody had that 28 day
cycle I think it's very muchlike um bridget I think you
mentioned.

Speaker 4 (15:35):
Is it um criado pres christina?
Criado pres book in one of yourpodcasts?

Speaker 2 (15:40):
yes, oh love yeah, but how?

Speaker 4 (15:43):
there is no average.
So if you measured like averageperson and you took the average
height and weight and waistcircumference and neck
circumference, everything andmade the average thing, no
actual person would fit in thatthing and I'm sure it's from
that book and it's a bit likethat.
And it's like when you sitthere and you go well, the
normal cycle is 21 to 35 daysand as the words come out your

(16:14):
mouth you're like well, that's,that's huge yeah the same for so
much of it and yet with wewomen take away 28 days, and if
I'm different, I'm weird.
I've just listed so many things.
But even like, later at likehas been having been a doctor
for a while and I'm sure,bridget, obviously you're
literally specializing in this,so you must then have the whole
thing of like, oh god, what Ilearned was wrong.
Yeah, always, I don't know.

(16:35):
Is it like that for neurologyor, like I don't know,
orthopedics?
I feel like there's this addedlayer of mysticism because it's
about early bits.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, definitely, and for so long I mean still now.
I don't know why I'm saying forso long like this is how it
still works.
We ask you like do you knowanything about your mother's
cycle or your sister's?
Because that's the onlyknowledge.
We have no research, so we justgo.
When did your mom go throughmenopause?
Because we assume maybe you'llbe similar.
How is that any like?

Speaker 4 (17:09):
is it that loose?

Speaker 3 (17:11):
Is it?
Is that the loose connection,then, that we kind of think that
you're you, that we thinkyou're going to follow your kind
of your mother's?

Speaker 2 (17:20):
yeah, yeah.
So average average age ofmenopause is 51, but you know,
if your mother went through itat 40, we say, hey, have you
thought about having a family?
Because your mom went throughmenopause early.
So you might.

Speaker 4 (17:31):
We don't know if you will yeah, I mean you've got a
whole other set of geneticsinvolved, but we always go when
did your mom like?
That means Anything that maynot be 50% of your yeah, like
not that I understand genetics,don't get me started.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
We even say, like you know, do you know anything
about your mom's pregnancyhistory?
If you're trying, we as ifthere's some sort of loose
connection.

Speaker 4 (17:59):
If there is, it's very thin my mother and I
couldn't have four differentpregnancies if we tried.
It was so easy.
If I hadn't had a bump, Iwouldn't have known I was
pregnant but everything we learnis like from your mom.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Basically, because you don't get the knowledge in
school, people are very afraidto talk about it.
You know in public.
So growing up you're just likeI don't know what's happening,
and your mom goes well, this youknow, this is what I did and
you go.
Okay, that's kind of it.

Speaker 4 (18:39):
And then I think what's really worrying speaking
about, like you know, differentgenerations and stuff and it's
not just, you know, talkingabout older people, because some
of the stuff we're reallytrying to do is aimed at older
women, but the resistance thatwe get in our DMs is probably
from a cohort that struggledarguably more and was told to

(19:01):
get on with it and was told thatthat was normal and you could
have had an easier time.
to see people trying to makechange is really jarring because
you have to accept insideconsciously that that actually

(19:21):
my life was difficult and itdidn't need to be.
That's a really difficult thingto when we see it like Saskia's
always like Lucy, stop feedingthe trolls.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
So give us a sample.
What are the, what are theresistance?
What are they saying?

Speaker 4 (19:37):
um, so sass, do you want to say what you did with
your coil, what you did?

Speaker 3 (19:42):
oh yeah, so I was talking about getting my coil
taken out, like I was off to getmy coil taken out because I
just really didn't like it.
I didn't have a good time withthe marina coil.
I was on my way to have it outand it was very painful to have
it in and I feel, and forvarious reasons you know, as
lots of us have had, like Idon't like going in and having

(20:05):
the speculum and like all ofthat stuff, like it just makes
me go like it makes me kind ofanyway.
So I was talking about that andfor some people it's not easy,
right, getting the coil out it'snot easy, and I was nervous and
I kind of mentioned that I wastalking about that and for some
people it's not easy, right,getting the coil out is not easy
, and I was nervous.
And I kind of mentioned that Iwas going to do it anyway.
Then I mean, there was just Ithink it was only one person but

(20:26):
this message like you're abunch of wusses, I can't believe
, like just really made into it.
How on earth, how on earth didyour parents cope?
Like, oh my God, um, justreally, yeah, uh, yeah, shaming,

(20:47):
calling out like a fear, likeacknowledging pain or a
nervousness around pain or likeactual pain.
And I think, yeah, I mean, Ithink there is this whole
normalization of pain in, uh, inour generation, but also in the
generation above us andhopefully now, like there's more
, there's definitely a movementright now to be like no pain,
like experiencing pain is notnormal, like that is not like if

(21:07):
you are in crippling pain everymonth, or even not crippling,
even, just like pain.
That doesn't have to be likethat.
You don't have to just be like,oh well, it's that time and I'm
not gonna be able to get out ofbed for three days exactly heavy
painkillers, like that is nothow it has to be and um, yeah,
and I feel like that voice wasreally just the voice of

(21:28):
probably like Lucy's saying,with being like compassionate
rather than it just actuallybeing like some bot writing to
us no, no she wasn't a bot.
Um yeah, I think kind of thecompassionate side is like right
, yeah, you've had to put upwith so much shit and you had to
just get on with that pain andkeep going and not talk about it

(21:51):
so it's hard to then hearpeople talking about it.

Speaker 4 (21:55):
You have two options at that point.
You can either be like, oh god,I could have had it easier, or
or be like, no, you're weakactually for wanting it
differently.
You're weak and wanting thingsto be easier and I coped, so you
should have.
And I just think that's.
There have been a few messagesin that vein, or where people
where we've said something um, Ithink we did, we did pelvic

(22:16):
examinations, and that wasanother one where people were
like, just get on with it andyou're like, yeah, you can do
that.
It's awful, like it's miserableand and I think it's really
interesting because I've had soI've had two coils and I've had
two coil removals and I've hadone.
Both of them I've had donedifferently, so I've had one
anesthetized insertion.
I actually found a cervicalblock very painful.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:41):
After that was fine, and then I had like a removal
just in there, like sexualhealth, but then having to have
it removed when the threads werelost.
Then you're talking aboutanother cervical block,
dilatation, cramps, feelingwoozy, and I just think it's not
necessarily saying you're goingto feel pain and that shouldn't

(23:02):
, that's not normal, so you needto go and see a specialist and
have a block.
It's about saying, okay, so youmight be fine, you might not be
.
Either of those things is okay,because I think the danger is
we're now going to start scaringeverybody because, like okay,
that this thing is agonizing.
Yes, it is agonizing for somepeople.

(23:23):
Yeah, you have to find the, themiddle ground of being like your
experience is valid and if yourexperience is not going well,
you have a right to speak up andchange that experience in your
legs in stirrups, like itdoesn't have to be dictated that
you know you're in the room, sotherefore it's over, and I

(23:43):
think we have.
We need options as women and aspeople who have these
procedures, not be told okay,because I think there's the
dangers that you end up being adifferent one size fits all.
Um, and we need everyone needswhat it's a bit like birth
choices.
You need options.
You need discussion about whatcould happen for every single
eventuality, not just well, it'smedicalized, that's bad which

(24:07):
is happening.
Obviously, bridget, you must seethis so much um or it's uh.
You know you must have a homebirth, which could end up being
dangerous.
And if, what?
If you don't want a home birth,what you feel like you're a
terrible mother or you want toleave out your baby, and
everything's beautiful andwonderful.
But maybe you didn't get thatopportunity because someone

(24:28):
pushed you.
I just think there's just toomany, oh, there's so many.
Everyone's been pushed and toldwhat's right and wrong, rather
than just like who's yoursmorgasbord of options, pick
what works.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
Yeah, that's it, isn't it.
It's like advocacy, right, likeyou're trying.
I think we often feel like wedon't have a voice within those
situations, or many, many peoplefeel like they don't have a
voice within this situation, soever become everything becomes
very binary.
It's like you're saying it'skind of this way or that way.
Yeah, um, and what's actuallybeen really enlightening for me

(25:00):
and learning from lucy in someof these videos is just like the
power that you could, like youknow that you can, of course, I
mean now I say it out loud, it'sobvious, but I just think
there's something about clinicalsettings that makes people feel
like that you kind of can loseyour voice, and there's lots
yeah, yeah, well, yeah, so whathelp do the rest of us have?

(25:20):
Um, so I think that, yeah, ifwe can do anything, and it's
helping people find their voiceto like advocate for themselves
and for their needs, and yeah,and that feels really important
so if you, I mean, I mean Icompletely agree.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
but you get these women sometimes who come in
specifically for me, like ifthey're pregnant, and they come
in with their little binder andthey're like this is what I want
, and then they're calleddifficult, like the second they
leave the room.
Every doctor's like my God,she's so difficult, it's not
going to go to plan.
It's like, yes, obviously it'snot going to go to plan.
Like no one who writes a birthplan is going to get exactly

(25:55):
that.
Like you would be like readinga crystal ball, yeah, but why is
it that she's difficult?
Because she read up on her shitand she knows what she wants
and she made a decision yeah,and it's navigating, that it's
going amazing.

Speaker 4 (26:09):
Why do you want those things?
What's your priority?
What is your absolute worstcase scenario?
If you thought about that,would you like to avoid that
like open dialogue with thatperson who's having that baby or
babies, rather than saying, ohshe, she's got a shopping list
and therefore she's a bad person.
You know, it's, it's not youpeople write people off and

(26:30):
that's the thing it's like.
We get no options.
We're told to you know, justget on with everything.
So the moment someone dares tosay, well, actually I'd quite
like some music on if that'swhat you're like, well, you're
just too demanding, aren't youlove that?
It's just.
I'll go back to putting up theshitting again, shall I?

Speaker 2 (26:53):
that's exactly what happens, though they're just
just like, oh she's so difficult, but in reality I mean it's
just people who did theirhomework.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
How dare they?

Speaker 2 (27:08):
be educated and educate themselves.
Or you're told like you shouldjust want a happy baby, healthy
baby, happy mom, you know, andit's like well, yeah, no, I
definitely, definitely want that.
At the end of the day, I wantmy self and my child to go home
alive.
But there are some other thingsthat I would like, if possible.
If everything's going smoothly,why can't we do these things?
I?

Speaker 1 (27:28):
feel like it's a bit dismissive when they say that
you know like I get it.
Happy, healthy baby is the best.
But if there's actual concern,someone is saying and then
that's your answer, it's a bitdismissive, yeah.

Speaker 4 (27:39):
I mean, I know it's happening, but I keep going back
to if this was an appendectomyor an appendectomy, or if this
was a wisdom tooth removal orwhatever.
Would we be saying the samething, like?
Would we be saying it doesn't,it doesn't matter, actually, if
you're in pain, um, you're gonnaget your appendix out, that's
the main thing, like right, youwouldn't ever do that.

(27:59):
Um that was that?

Speaker 3 (28:01):
was that like mad to study that?
Did we talk about this?
Did we share this about thec-section pain?
Looking into women experiencingpain like being able to feel
yeah, the feel parts of thesurgery.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
I don't think and again no I only did anesthetics
for a bit.
I'm like what?
What was this?
I need to read the paperbecause it's a new york times
article, but the videos aregoing around the internet and I
need to find out.
Like were these emergencysections?
Were these women's withepidurals?
Were they topped up epiduralsfinals?
You know what tests were theyhaving done before?

(28:41):
Was it a crash section whereyou know time is just
everything's crazy?
Or was this an elective, almostlike completely not
understandable?
Was this an elective sectionwhere someone is had, has had a
spinal, and is feeling like theycan't speak up for themselves?
Like, what were the settingsand why is it varied?

(29:01):
Is it just happening across theboard?
I mean, it's all totallyterrifying that women aren't
being listened to.
Um, and it's actually theassociation of anisys, which was
british, which has come outwith some guidance that's
referenced in this new yorktimes article saying um, you
need to talk to the way, buthaving done on a set, I can't
picture a single um.
You know doctor that I workedwith, but that's the trap you

(29:22):
fall into as a doctor.
You go no, surely we wouldn'tdo that to somebody.
People are coming forward withtheir stories, so I just I
really need.
I need to like find out moreabout that, because it's just
terrifying to think that womenit's terrifying, as someone
who's having one in November, tothink that you could be you

(29:43):
know, be in that position andand feel everything and not be
believed Like would that.
That would never happen in anyother surgery.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
No, not.
I have been in one where it wasan elective and she, um, it
just did not work.
It truly did not work.
They tried three times.
Um, it gave her more drugs andshe could she could feel it was
a spinal.
Um, because it was an electivesection, um, and yeah, we had to
convert it, which you neverwant to do in an elective
section.
It makes you look so bad thatyou're converting it to a ga.

(30:13):
But we were like listen, if youcan truly mean, I had knife to
skin and she was like stop, andso we had to like cover
everything up and we explainedlike you have to go to sleep.
Then and she was obviouslyterrified because you're, all of
a sudden, you're like wait, I'mgoing to be put to sleep, like
this is massive surgery and likewhat's going gonna happen to my
baby, and we're like yeah, okay, I'm so sorry, but we actually

(30:37):
don't have a lot of time rightnow because we have now an open
gash in your tummy, so we kindof need you to just like consent
to this, like give us your, andyou're going night night night.

Speaker 4 (30:48):
I only had about once when I was at medical school on
my pediatric placement, and itwas the handover in the morning
after and it happened to afriend of mine.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
This exact scenario happened to a friend of mine and
she got had to go to sleep andthen she woke up and she was
still in like terrible pain.
I mean it just I don't.
I don't think it's very common,right, but the thing that
struck.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah, happened to me Bridget, that was me and Jack,
remember, because they didn'tknow mine wasn't working.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
So you had a non-working epidural but you
were pushing, so that'sdifferent then he rolled me in
though for the c-section and totest.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
He tipped the scalpel on my belly and I said I can
feel that, I can feel that.
And then that's when he decidedto knock me out and I wasn't
there for jack's birth.

Speaker 4 (31:28):
I wasn't awake oh, no I love the way are you coming
forth with the actual, likefirst answer?

Speaker 3 (31:35):
yeah it's you like but I mean, maybe it's not that
uncommon because it's happenedto you and I'm there trying to
block it out.

Speaker 4 (31:49):
It's like someone who's a having one and b did
anesthetic.
I'm like.
I'm like how I've been therewhen they test it.
How can they just be like, no,we'll just crack on.
But all four of us have seen ithappen or know someone who's
had it.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, to themselves so it does happen yeah, okay,
good luck.

Speaker 4 (32:11):
Good luck, nancy.
My own old-grade theaters, yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Amazing.
What do you guys hope for inthe future regarding both your
platform and just like women'shealth, like what is your
ultimate like in your fantasyworld?
What does women's health looklike?
Like if, in your fantasy world?
What?

Speaker 4 (32:37):
does women's health look like?
I think that it is given thesame weight and credibility that
women, when they have a problem, or, you know, people with a
female reproductive system, whenthey have a problem, they go to
their doctor and they are takenas seriously as anyone else.
And I'm very lucky that I'mworking again, that has walked
into the room, and I'm verylucky that I'm working again

(32:58):
with GPs, where the ones that Ihave seen with with these you
know working with these issuesare very understanding.
But I know that that is not theexperience that a lot of women
are having and a lot of womenwho've come to me and told me
that they're not having thisexperience elsewhere and I think

(33:18):
that is the one thing I justthat hearts sink happening most
days.
Um, I would want to change andthat my friends, when they're
telling me stories about youknow they're going to the doctor
and whatever outcome they'vehad, I'm not sitting there
thinking, oh god, they didn'task you this, they didn't check
that.
And I feel like if you'd gonein with you know something else,

(33:40):
that you would have beentreated differently, or if you'd
been someone else, you'd havebeen treated differently.
I think that for me, would be abig, a big thing um, um.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
And yeah, I mean I agree with Lucy.
I mean if I was like, nah, I'mnot bothered about that, I
really kind of I feel likenothing is really going to get
any better until the genderhealth gap doesn't exist anymore

(34:17):
.
And obviously this is huge,because it's a huge gap and the
stats around it are just likewhen you dive into them and it's
like just mind-boggling whenyou kind of see it in black and
white, like we talked about itthe other day, that less than
2.5 percent of public funding inthe UK goes towards, um, like

(34:40):
anything like reproductivehealth, gynecological, like
anything like you know, you cansee that that there is no, that
that gap closing.
It feels like, uh, I don't know, it feels like hopeless, yeah,
like really really hopeless andmy like if, if any, if this

(35:01):
could achieve anything.
I mean the grand, like theambition for what nobody told us
, that is, that it can kind ofgrow, this movement that makes a
lot of noise and startschanging things at kind of a, a
policy level, whereby there ismore money going into pots of
funding for research around thisstuff, because until that,
until that research is happening, like the dial's not going to

(35:23):
shift, but also, like you know,into health and into education
and awareness and that we cansee that gender health gap
closing, like like off the backof our hard work.
But I but I don't mean that atall, but I like that is like
ultimately we want to create abetter world for our daughters
and our sons um, but because I'mscared.

(35:46):
Right now I'm really scared forthe the world and in many, for
many, many reasons, I'm scaredfor the world that my children
are growing up in, butparticularly as a girl like,
yeah, not being able to findyour voice, not being able to
advocate for yourself, not beingable to understand or
understand your own needs, askfor what you need.
It just feels like this kind ofit's not going to get any

(36:08):
better.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yeah, I think it took me no go Lucy.

Speaker 4 (36:14):
Yeah, I was just gonna say I think it'd be lovely
that the education side of whatwe're doing wasn't needed, Like
it'd be so lovely.
Yeah, we're just.
It was like we were reading thealphabet.
That because I don't think thatit's comparable.
The stuff that we're talkingabout.
I don't think it's necessarilycomparable to being like, well,
you're a doctor, so you know,you can't expect us all to be
doctors, which I think isslightly what people think when

(36:34):
they go to health, education andstuff.
I think some of this stuff isvery much things that we live
with day to day and affect usvery frequently throughout our
lives, and none of these issuesare things that people are going
to have once.
You know they're going to havemultiple times or they're going
to have multiple issuesthroughout their life, and I
think it's okay to be educatedabout those things and to have

(36:54):
discussion around those thingsnormalized, in the same way that
you would say, well, you'regoing to run a marathon, you
might want to get some newtrainers, but break them in
first.
Do you know what?
I mean?
You'd have some general advicethat everyone kind of knows.
And why can't it be like thatabout reproductive health?
Um, why is it shrouded inmystery and I think it'd be
really nice to not have anaudience because everyone

(37:16):
already knows it, and and andthen to move into this, this,
this issue, when it comes to,like um policy and changing
things, I think that's thatwould be lovely to be our next,
our next thing as well.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
I think it has to come from removing shame, though
, first.
Like it took me until I was inmy 20s to just like grab a
tampon out of my bag and walk tothe bathroom and not like hide
it under a sweatshirt or like ina pocket or be like I hope it
doesn't fall on the floor, oreven like say I need a tampon
out loud now.

(37:52):
That's like my little act ofdefiance.
I'm like I need a tampon, doyou?

Speaker 1 (37:55):
never want to hear me .
Nothing doesn't make it anybetter when we're teenagers.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
it's a sugar packet, oh yeah Like, why are we hiding
it as a?

Speaker 1 (38:06):
sugar packet.

Speaker 4 (38:08):
Oh, my God, it's just terrible.
Like putting them in your boot,putting them in your bra,
putting them in your sleeve.
It's like here are your options.
Your option is to do whatBridget's doing and just walk
out of the room holding on.
Kids are like oh okay, here'show I hide my.
Yeah, it's terrible.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
I mean, that is such a little thing.
But that is where I feel likeso much shame starts, because
when you get your period, youcould be like 10, 11, 12, you
could be very young.
And then it's like, okay, soyou're gonna sneak, sneak into
your backpack, you're gonnashove it down your sleeve and
then hope that no one noticesyou in the school bathroom and
then just quietly just throw itaway but wrap it in a bunch of

(38:49):
toilet paper so nobody knowswhat it is.
And it's like what.
This is insane, why, what magictrick am I pulling?

Speaker 4 (38:56):
and you like.
When you, when we were younger,I think we thought that this
generation that's coming up nowwould have a handle on it all,
and my middle-aged daughter wastelling me a story recently that
she was in sex ed class.
Again, you know, she is at anall-girls school, to be fair, an
all-girls state school inLondon, so it's, like you know,
pretty broad.
Lots of people have beenremoved from the class, lots of

(39:20):
people are making jokes, likeyou know.
It's a very, like you know,range of attitudes.
And, um, she because she'sbeing brought up by me and my
husband was answering everyquestion and the reaction was ew
, why do you know those things,why do you know so much about
this?
And and I was like, oh no, nowI've like messed up her street
cred or whatever.

(39:40):
But also, it's still happening.
The shame is still totallythere that if you understand
your body, and know your body,you are a weirdo.
And the boys are in the schooldown the road making jokes about
wanking and you know that'shappening.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
But the girls can't know the answer to like what are
the options if you get yourfirst period like it's just
terrible, oh god, yeah, we gottastart teaching her to say how
do you not know this?
And then just turn back around,couldn't?

Speaker 4 (40:14):
pay me to be in New York again, right.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
So we know that there is no research into women's
health.
The NIH published a systematicreview in 2022 exploring it.
So historically, this is kindof just like the you know broad
strokes.
Historically, medical studieshave excluded female
participants and research datacollected from males usually is

(40:44):
generalized to females, which is, bananas like, so different.
And those who are intersex donot have any reproductive
anatomies with one or the otherare just completely overlooked.
One or the other are justcompletely overlooked.

(41:04):
And you know a lot of reasonsto preferring males in research
is concerns for decreasingfertility or harming pregnancy,
there's researcher bias frompredominantly male researchers
and perception of the male asrepresentative of the human
species and therefore the normthe default male that pisses me
off a lot yeah, that's like,that's really fucking annoying

(41:28):
we're all just silently fumingwell, you know, technically we
all start off as female in utero, so why are we not the default?

Speaker 4 (41:38):
yeah, I just sure, surely that?
I mean it's a bit like how umsports companies are finally
latching on to the idea thatactually if they do uh
sponsorship with um companies,usually targeted at uh women,
they'll actually get loads ofmoney because women spend more

(42:00):
on um.
So have you seen this formulaone?
So aston martin like I wouldnot know the name of this, I
want to say car um aston martin.
Aramco has done a uh crossoverwith elemis um, and so these
gorgeous, like racing greenleather wash bags with like

(42:22):
goodies in and it's got theAston Martin logo on, because
women, if they like something,will go and spend their money on
it in a way that men just don't.
And I'm like, surely there's anequivalent like, you know, a
we're out of the workforce whenwe're, you know, got heavy
periods or things like that.
There's got to be an economicargument for like, just go and
experiment on.
If women don't want to beexperimented on, go and

(42:44):
experiment on them and find thedrugs that work, because surely
you'll open up more avenues.
I'm not enough of a scientist,but surely there's an entire
door you haven't opened andthat's not very sciencey to be
like.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
I'm just not looking no, but it's that whole oh
potentially will ruin herfertility and it's like there.
You know, there are people whoa don't want children, or b are
willing to risk it, or c arepost-menopausal anyway, and
they're just like nope theassumption that all women want
children.

Speaker 4 (43:18):
So it's like we can't do that because you know she's
a woman of a recurring age yeah,I hate that phrase like as if
that's my function from the ageof like 12 to 40 is that yeah,
it's just horrific, yeah, yeah,it's terrible.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
So unfortunately we're all thrown in that group.
So that's why we cannot betouched, because, god forbid,
you change your mind and in 10years you want kids.
They can't risk it.
But females are onlyrepresented in about 37% of

(43:57):
randomized control trials andeven if they don't mention
gender, it's only 37%representation of women.
So we're not getting enoughrepresentation, which means
we'll never have the data toback it up.
But just some more horriblefacts.
So I'm just going to fire themJust to make you laugh.

(44:18):
Yeah, yeah, everyone get firedup.
So Yentl syndrome, which isnamed after you know, like
Barbra Streisand the old schoolmovie Yentl, it's a phrase
coined by Dr Bernadette Healythat describes how, for a
woman's illness to be takenseriously, she must prove
herself to be as unwell as amale counterpart.

(44:40):
So Yentl syndrome as a cause ofdelayed care for female
patients.
So you know, women, if you goin and you describe your
symptoms, you might get delayedcare, which means delayed
treatment, which can obviouslylead to mortality, morbidity.
They may apply inappropriate,ineffective or harmful
treatments or withhold effectivetreatment.

(45:02):
So you have to prove that youare in as much pain as a man
with a heart attack to be takenseriously.
It's a little bit like theargument.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
I can't remember who said it recently, so I feel
really bad.
This is not my idea.
Someone was saying recentlythat a way of being taken
seriously by your doctor iseither to take your husband with
you, your heteronormativerelationship with you and and
basically talk about the impactit's having on them.
What I think oh, I think Ican't.

(45:32):
I can't remember he said it,but basically that the that
seemed to be the thing thatactually made people start
listening to her was the factthat she was going.
It's affecting my marriage,it's affecting my husband's
sleep, it's affecting his workWas like an objective, like
marker of like okay, this isserious and it's affecting oh my
, I'm afraid you'd die on him.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
Who's going to care if he was laundering?

Speaker 2 (45:56):
You're going to have a relationship to flash at your
doctor Like, oh my God who'sgonna do his laundry
relationship to flash at yourdoctor like, oh my god, this is
terrible.
Oh so when it affects his work,then we can take it seriously,
but god forbid, it affects mywork.
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 4 (46:07):
you're probably making it up.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
Really well, you're yeah you're too emotional,
that's right.
No, I forgot that.
I do make up everything Iforgot.
Yeah, I just want to wastedoctor's times.

Speaker 4 (46:18):
Yeah, oh, my god that yeah, and I used to see that
quite a bit with anestheticswhen I'd, you know, get called
to do like a difficult cannula,um and it was for pain relief or
something, or something washappening.
They were discussing painrelief or whatever, and um, so
it wouldn't be a patient likebeforehand known to me and
there'd be this discussionaround oh she's, you know, she's

(46:39):
asking for this, she needs this.
Like, okay, you can, you cangive it to her, she's in pain
Like you just tend to make stuffup for fun.
That's a very small cohort ofpatients that are, you know,
exhibiting drug seekingbehaviors.
You don't want to see it everynight of the week, mate.
Give her the pain relief.

(47:01):
Yeah, lack of reflection, Ithink, on the doctors at that
point and the fact that they'reso open with it is always.
It's a bit like, um, people whobrag about you know, or like
tagging your graffiti, like okay, it's one thing that you think,
that you're saying that outloud, like that's just.
It's amazing.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
The lack of insight it's mostly with the you know
the female ward you get a bunchof, unfortunately, endo patients
and every doctor on that wardwill be like, oh my god, they
won't shut up, they're in somuch pain.
It's like what have you giventhem paracetamol?
And you're like, okay, right,so the thing you take for a

(47:41):
headache you thought wouldsomehow cure her deep uterine
pain, like what?

Speaker 4 (47:46):
do you think she may have tried that?

Speaker 2 (47:52):
yeah, that is a very common um thing, unfortunately,
even among gynecologists, though.
They're just like, oh god, anendo patient, oh great, she's
crazy.

Speaker 4 (48:04):
I think like Marissa and Tess as people who don't
work in medicine so much.
What would you say when youhear like that half?
You know obviously Bridget andI are talking about experiences
where it's other clinicians thatare saying this stuff.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
I'm.
I mean, it doesn't shock me.
It's kind of translates similarinto the therapy field.
There's, you know, a bunch ofpeople who still, like older
generation, think therapies joke, oh, talk about feelings, stuff
like that.
I even had some of my owntrolls on my therapy Instagram
where it was an ad for couplestherapy and honestly, this had

(48:38):
to be like a 13-year-old boy,because the inexperience he was
saying was crazy.
And it said something aboutlike you know, it's okay, you go
through ups and downs, likecome in for couples therapy,
whatever.
And he commented like if youneed couples therapy, that's not
your soulmate, because marriageshould be easy, and if you have
ups and downs, that's not yoursoulmate.
I want to be like are you 13?
I'm like oh my god, no, I waslike um, tell me, you've never

(49:08):
been married before.
Like, how old are you?

Speaker 4 (49:12):
it's amazing.
It's like a lack of insight canstay with you until even when
you're then.
I think what bridget and I sortof experiencing is like oh no,
you're now in a position toaffect change on these people
and you still hold those beliefs, like that's yeah, and it's
like you wonder why people don'tspeak up about things that like

(49:33):
, things that are worrying them,things that are causing them
pain, you know, like anythingwhy it's hard to find your voice
when you know that that viewcan be quite pervasive.

Speaker 3 (49:44):
Right that like it's not real, or they're annoying,
or they're making it up, orthey're exaggerating, or you
know they're hysterical ifyou're gonna go with the old
tropes yep, um yeah, oh yes, andthat's really anxiety too, like
if I have uh clients who have,you know, general anxiety and

(50:07):
experience panic attacks fromtime to time.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
If they have friends who don't have anxiety, they
really think like panic attacksare just like all in your head,
like calm down, like you canstop them, but there's like
certain steps that they do tocalm themselves and their
friends just don't understand itit's amazing, that's amazing.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
It's all in your head .
You're like, yes, that's thething that's controlling me,
that is the problem.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
Oh, my god we could talk about this stuff right for
a very long time, and what we'veseen as well is that, like
coming through through messagesand stuff that we get, we get
these like essays oh yeah womenwho just haven't been listened

(50:50):
to or like, oh, this thing, youknow we will share a study, for
example, like you know something, like some of the things that
we've been talking about, andthen we'll get responsive, like
that was me, and just in the waythat we just have done, talking
about the c-sections, it's likejust the I and I think there's
it is that kind of female thingaround, kind of gathering and

(51:10):
tending and befriending and likesharing stories and stuff.
But I think there aren't evenmany opportunities for women to
be like, hey, that same thinghappened to me, that happened to
you what?
oh my god, that and this is what.
This is how it affected me andthis is how I managed it, and
yeah it's kind of wild that thatthat even like people are

(51:32):
turning to us to tell theirstories like, yeah, these two
random women.

Speaker 4 (51:37):
Yeah, we could be anyone.
We could be AI, data gathererslike and women are well, for the
most part, women sending intheir stories, opening up,
sharing really intimate aspectsof their life and, I think, just
want to be heard.
They just want you listened to.
They've been exactly likeSaskia says they've been
dismissed and it's the.

(51:58):
There's always like a story,there's like a narrative,
there's a this and then thishappened and then this, and you
just think we've all got storieslike that where, if you asked
us, we could talk for hoursbecause it's so traumatic or
it's so it changes who you areon a very deep level and we are
still searching for how did thathappen or why?

(52:19):
Probably all just need to gospeak to Marissa but walking
down the street.
There are going to be so manypeople with those feelings and
that history and I'm sure youcould say that about a lot of
people, but the thing that ourfollowers have is is that thread

(52:41):
is?
It's about this one part oftheir body really and not being
listened to?
It's?

Speaker 1 (52:48):
yeah, I definitely think it's important you know,
like that women are sharingthese stories and then you're
sharing them to your communityso that they can see, yeah,
they're not alone.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
There's so many others and you know, I feel like
that's a good like village tohave you know which is crazy,
because we're the people whohave to grow the future of
society and birth the future ofsociety and usually raise the
future of society, even if youdo have a great partner.

Speaker 4 (53:15):
You'd think everyone would want to know your
experiences because literally,the future hinges on how we do
yeah, these, these people whodismiss us, seem to forget that,
like, like, our kids will paytheir pensions and we're working
and paying taxes that will lookafter their health care well in
this country.
I don't know about you guys.
Sorry, um, sorry, marissa, butum, it's just.

(53:42):
It's just horrifying and like Iliterally at the moment I'm
trying to how wide is this goingto go?
Getting a little bit of someissues in the workplace, sorting
out my mat leave and I'm like Icannot be the first pregnant
person that like statisticallythat does feel unlikely.
But I need to feel like acomplete inconvenience.

(54:04):
Um and it that that is in therelatively cushy world of nhs
health care in terms of, yeah,we did, yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Um, I can't imagine like doing that in the private
sector and worrying about my jobhowever long I'm off and all
that sort of stuff like no, mybest friend shannon, she just
started her mat leave and theyshe's in Jersey in the States
and she all her coworkers nother bosses like her coworkers
who are older than her and theydidn't have state funded mat

(54:36):
leave because they're decadesolder, like their kids are in
their twenties and thirties, andthey like shat on her and were
like you're taking maternityleave, like we didn't have that
in my day and she was like well,guess what?

Speaker 1 (54:55):
I get paid and I'm going to take every damn day.
What is it, marissa?
Four months or six months?
So well, it's broken down intotwo parts.
It's either six weeks or eightweeks, depending on vaginal or
C-section, and then after thatyou get 12 weeks.
Which one gets more C-sectionCause you get the eight weeks
and the 12, but this is only newjersey, no other state in the
us pennsylvania has one as well,but it's all based on your
employer.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
It's not like yeah I love that they've decided which
one's more traumatic.
Oh yeah, I definitely have aneasier ride after my elective
sections than some vagina thingsI've seen that's.
That feels really unfair forsome woman who ends up with some
horrific with a, a fourthdegree tear who can't pee.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
But yeah, they um, they just kind of like quantify
it that way.
But um, I mean, it's allsemi-recent, Marissa, right,
Like maybe in the last decade orso.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
I just can't believe it's not across all States.
So like States that okay.
So if you're not inPennsylvania or New Jersey, what
you're just screwed like, youbetter get back to work your
private employer, your privateemployer, whatever they allow
you, which is normally onlyabout six to eight weeks, I
think oh my god, what sorrythings about America, but mat
leave is definitely up there.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
I know that I don't know what the hell is wrong.
And then there is a verynegative view where they say if
you know, like if you take yourmat leave now, you're not
proving your worth at thecompany, etc.
And it's like so, then theyhave this blanket treatment of
all women of childbearing agewhere they're like well, we

(56:22):
could pay you less because youmight go on that leave.
And if she's like, well, I'm,you know, actually like I'm
single and I don't want a kid,and they're like, ah, but one
day you're gonna go on mat leave.
And if she's like, well, I'm,you know, actually like I'm
single and I don't want a kid,and they're like, ah, but one
day you're gonna go on mat leaveand you're gonna really fuck us
over and you're gonna leave forsix weeks.
So now you know it's reallyfucked up, but that is how
people like justify the genderwage gap in the US yeah, I do.

Speaker 4 (56:41):
I mean, I hear about that happening here quite a bit,
to be honest.
Um, just worrying about yourjob for your entire mat leave
and feeling like you still needto be in touch yeah and then
people being like when are yougoing on your break, when are
you on your leave?
It's like a holiday yay.

(57:02):
I would probably rather havemat leave than have to work.
Yeah, yeah, it works quite hard.
I would probably rather have.
Matt Leith than have to work.
Yeah, no.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
It works quite hard, oh fun, fun, fun times.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
God, those stats that you read out there.
They're from the book, aren'tthey?

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Yeah, and they're updated ones from the National
Institute of Health.
Yeah, so terrible I have to,just like I had to stop doing a
little research.
I was like is pissing me offand you know it just makes me
mad, yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:42):
It's like if you want that quick fire way to feel
like utterly furious, yeah, Ithink you know exactly what to
do, exactly, and you're like oh,I think you know exactly what
to give, and it's like exactly.
And you're like oh, I'm dead.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
Yeah, furious but helpless.
I hate that feeling of likedespair.
That's what kills me.
It's like I'm not a researcherand I don't make policy changes,
so, but like who is gonna fightin our corner?
That's what I end up feelinglike.

Speaker 4 (58:02):
So then I'm like hmm, that's why I'm so excited to be
working with Saskia, becauseshe does have these sort of ways
of thinking that I think is sodifferent to when you're a
doctor.
I think it's a little bit likethe difference between being a
public health doctor and beinglike a GP.
I feel like I'm dealing with theproblems in front of me and I
think SAS has got that broaderokay, but how do we actually

(58:23):
make change top down rather thanlike I'm there being, like I'm
going to tell everyone aboutPMDD this week and and I think I
think you, I think when youwork as a pair, you have these
very different perspectives andI find that really exciting.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
I'm putting it all on you to ask basically to change
the world, sorry, yeah, alsolike that's great because I'm
learning what PMDD is like.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
I'm learning things every day.
What a combo.

Speaker 4 (58:51):
I think it's rapidly following ADHD as, just like
we're all self-diagnosing yeah,yes, that that's the new endo.
I think everyone's gonna belike wait a second yeah, I guess
you say that thing of just likeI don't know if I have PMDD or
three days a month.
I just can't tolerate anybullshit.
And then the serotonin kicksback in and I'm like I'll put up

(59:13):
with it again for the 25 days.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
Absolutely Right.
So thank you so much to ourguests from their platform,
their page.
What nobody told us which isreally great, so everyone go
check it out Um is the is yourInstagram handle at what nobody
told us.

Speaker 4 (59:37):
Yeah, that's perfect.
Thank you so much for having us.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
Thank you for being here.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Thank you.
It has been fun and infuriating, and that's exactly how we like
to end things, yeah absolutelyyou.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
It has been fun and infuriating, and that's exactly
how we like to end things.

Speaker 4 (59:49):
Yeah, absolutely thank you so much, guys.
So nice to meet you and speakto you again, bridget bye.