May 15, 2024 • 47 mins
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In this episode, Sujani sits down with Glenn Laverack, a seasoned public health professional whose career has spanned continents and been shaped by his diverse experiences. His early years engaged with grassroots initiatives laid the foundation for a deep understanding of the local context, an asset that would become invaluable as he navigated the complex world of global health. They explore the significance of community empowerment in making a meaningful impact and touch upon the multifaceted nature of public health careers that are often characterized by an ongoing process of learning, adapting, and seizing opportunities explore the significance of community empowerment in making a meaningful impact. This episode not only serves as a compass for those looking to forge a career in global health but also highlights the collective mission of improving community health and shaping policy.
You’ll Learn
- Glenn’s first experience volunteering in Sri Lanka and how that has led to a lifelong passion and a career in international health
- The lifestyle choices inherent in a global career that demands international mobility and the enriching experiences it can offer
- Having direct experience in field work and using your assets to provide a competitive edge in the public health field
- Factors to consider when thinking about continuing postgraduate studies
- Empowering communities to have more voice and authority about projects that will influence their lives
- Understanding what it is you want to achieve in public health to figure out how you can make the most impact
- The pivotal role that personal connections and networking play in professional development
Today’s Guest
Dr. Glenn Laverack is a social scientist and an international leader in health promotion and empowerment with a distinguished career for 40 years as a practitioner, an academic, researcher and consultant in more than 50 countries. Dr Laverack has been an advocate for the value of ordinary people at the centre of health promotion and has developed several innovative solutions to co-create successful programs in different cultural contexts. He formerly worked as a Coordinator (Empowerment) in neglected tropical diseases at WHO, Geneva and as a research fellow at Flinders University, Australia. Dr Laverack has managed several large-scale health programs including in Ghana and India and worked as a consultant on more than 100 contracts worldwide. He has a wide range of publications including 26 books, 12 in English and 14 in other languages including in Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, French, Farsi, Italian, Chinese and Thai. Dr Laverack has been a visiting professor at 6 universities in Denmark, Italy, the UAE and the UK and was the Director of Health Promotion, University of Auckland, New Zealand. His PhD investigated the collaborative role of communities in health promotion programs in Fiji and is presently an independent adviser with the UN, governmental and international development agencies.
Resources
- Connect with Glenn on LinkedIn and find his work on ResearchGate
- Learn more a
Join The Public Health Career Club: A global membership community where public health professionals connect, learn, and support each other in building meaningful and impactful careers.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think that's a good question for people to ask
themselves.
That's what their goal is.
Is to really go forward andmake a difference is to ask
themselves is what I'm doing atthis time?
Is it going to lead to making adifference for other people?
Because it's not too difficultto make a contribution, but it's
very difficult to make adifference.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to PH Spotlight, a community for you
to build your public healthcareer with.
Join us weekly right here, andI'll be here too.
Your host, sujani Siva from PHSpot.
Hi, glenn, and welcome to thePH Spot podcast.
So lovely to finally meet youafter kind of, you know,
(00:46):
stumbling on your LinkedInprofile, and I'm really happy
you are doing this today.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Me too.
Yeah, really nice to be hereand really appreciate the
invitation.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
So you know, I know you have a long, long, long
history with public health andone of the questions I love
hearing the answer to is kind ofhow people have found public
health as a career.
And so I'm curious to hear fromyou, like, having built a 30
year career, can you rememberand go back to that point in
(01:19):
time?
Maybe you actually discoveredpublic health and kind of
identified it as a potentialcareer path for you?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, I mean it was almost by default, because my
undergraduate degree wasessentially in public health.
It was a four year degree callit a four year sandwich which
the third year is a full year inpractice.
You know, working for a localin my case, working for a local
authority in London but when Iwas looking to do an
undergraduate degree, I waslooking at different options.
(01:49):
I was more interested, I think,at that time, in the
environment actually, and I waslooking for different courses.
I applied for different coursesand then I saw, you know, this
course online at LeedsUniversity in the UK and I
applied and you know wassuccessful.
I was successful with others,but at that time then, having
read more about what publichealth was and what it meant and
(02:10):
just you know a wide variety ofopportunities it offered, I
decided to do that course.
So it wasn't that I planned itin advance, it was just probably
like a lot of people, when theystart looking at different
courses, they start seeing newthings, you know yeah, so this
was in the late 1970s, early 80sand so that's right yeah when
(02:34):
you're doing this degree, whatdid you imagine your public
health career to look like?
well, at that time that coursewas specifically designed to
become a sort of public healthinspector, so it was a
vocational course.
So the idea was you did thatcourse and at the end of it you
got a job with a local authority, you know, and that actually
evolved into what is now calledenvironmental health,
(02:56):
environmental health officers,but at that time it was very
much public health.
So the idea was I would do thecourse, which I did, and then I
did work for just under a yearat a local authority in the
United Kingdom.
So that was, you know reallywhat my idea was.
But then somebody mentioned tome voluntary services overseas,
(03:18):
which is a bit like the AmericanPeace Corps, and I apply and I
made some inquiries and Iactually put in an application
for that and that that's reallygot, because my whole career
from that point on, for the last35 years or so, has been in
international public health.
And so I think what reallytriggered me, if you like, was
(03:40):
my time I spent as a volunteer,which ended up being in Sri
Lanka living in a rural area foralmost two years, you know,
without electricity, withoutrunning water.
Basically, in those days it wasliving on $2 a day.
Your salary was about $60 amonth, you know.
So you really had to live likelocals, lived, had to learn to
(04:00):
speak Sinhala, because you knowthe village spoke English well
enough to communicate with.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
So I think it was that experience, that really
grassroots experience, thattriggered me, triggered my whole
career from that point on toworking and living in low middle
income countries, essentiallybecause then from then on, you
essentially built a careermoving around different
communities and it looks likeyou wrapped up that work, for
(04:30):
you know that you did for twoyears in Sri Lanka and you went
back to get a master's degreeand I suppose that was quite
intentional, right, you'reseeing this pathway.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Well, one thing leads to another really, and I think
I applied for a scholarship fromthe British government to do a
master's degree and you knowit's not easy getting
scholarships even then I mean,it's probably harder now to get
scholarships to do a master'sdegree but having I knew that,
having two years experienceunder my belt, and this is why I
always advise to youngprofessionals get some good
(05:02):
experience early in your career.
Young professionals, get somegood experience early in your
career.
In a way that's really going todetermine the the professional
you're going to develop into inthe future.
You know, because I've been inmany meetings, you know, with
high level meetings, with peopleat the world bank and us,
different un organizations, andpeople really don't have any
idea about how, you know, poorpeople in low and middle income
(05:25):
countries live.
They have no idea and yetthey're sat there, you know,
trying to develop policies forthose people.
So I always say the bestexperience you can get is
firsthand experience at thegrassroots level, whether it's
for three months, six months or,like in my case, nearly two
years.
It really will pay dividends forthe future and it paid
(05:45):
dividends for me because I'msure my two years experience is
what stood out in my applicationwhen I applied for a master's
degree and I was successful ingetting onto a master's course
to study health promotion atmaster's.
That master's was also thenlinked to a period of one year
as a trainee with Britishgovernment, which I went to
(06:07):
Ghana to do.
So I got another year'sexperience out of it.
But none of that would havehappened had I not first made
that commitment.
I made that sacrifice, if youlike, because there was no
salary involved for two yearsand it's very hard living under
those conditions.
But that really led on to otherthings.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
You know, and this has always been my experience in
in my career if you're willingto go that little bit extra, go
that extra mile, you know itoften pays dividends in the
future yeah, and just thinkingabout you know, and I know
you're a professor and comeacross lots of students and
early career professionalsthere's that pressure that early
(06:48):
professionals put on themselvesto kind of like get it right or
get it perfect right out ofschool.
And I wonder, you know, justreflecting on your own career,
like advice for those folks whoare very early in their career
and I think you mentioned alittle bit on that just to get
as much experience as you canand not put so much pressure on
(07:09):
yourself to figure out thatperfect path that you're working
towards right.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, exactly, I mean , I think the general advice is
generalize and then specialize,you know, in public health,
which is good advice.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, and so in your case you kind of went into this,
the world of international work, and then would you say, even
during your master's you werequite general.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I've been always being general and I would never
put my career forward as a modelfor a career path, because a
lot of overseas work iscontractual.
So I've, you know, I've done alot of contracts in my career
probably over 100 contracts, Ithink and when you are in that
position you sort of staggerfrom one contract to the next,
(07:54):
you know.
So I went from Sri Lanka toGhana and then from Ghana to
India, for example, you know,one contract to another.
So much of my career has neverbeen planned Because I've worked
a lot in many differentcountries.
I wouldn't say I've specialized.
In terms of.
You know, my advice would be,you know, to plan early and to
(08:14):
think long, obviously to thinkstrategically, because I meet a
lot of young career people,public health professionals, and
I'm always so impressed withthem because they're very savvy,
as you say.
And I'm always so impressed withthem because they're very savvy
, as you say, often they've gotsome experience and well
qualified and very motivated,you know.
So to me the field of publichealth now is more competitive
(08:37):
in terms of developing a careerthan it's ever been.
You know, from the young peopleI meet At an early start
they're very professionallyminded, which I never was really
.
I was just more interested intrying to get overseas and have
different experiences,professional experiences in
different countries.
I wasn't very strategic aboutit at an early stage in my
career, but I think had I beenmore strategic and I thought
(09:00):
about which region I wanted towork in in the world and
therefore thought about whichlanguages I needed, for example,
or which countries I needed toget experience in in that region
, maybe I would have been ableto advance my career quicker,
you know.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
How much do you think one should be strategic versus
lead with curiosity and explore?
I?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
think early in your career, be curious, you know,
get out there and just get thatexperience and try to get a
variety of experience under yourbelt on your CV Because myself,
having looked through hundredsof CVs for recruiting people in
different projects, differentjobs, often you know, for
recruiting people in differentprojects, different jobs, often
(09:51):
you know people that all meetthe criteria for the job you
know and have the same level ofqualification.
And master's say you're alwayslooking for something different.
You know you're looking forsomeone that stands out and, as
I say, it's a very competitivemarket so it's difficult often
to find someone that stands out.
So if you've got that littlebit of extra experience say you
know, three months in India orthree months in Nepal, if you're
(10:11):
thinking of working in SouthAsia, that's going to stand out
on your CV and when you're upagainst other people with a
master's degree like you have,you know it just gives you that
little bit of an edge.
I always say to early careerpeople use your assets, you know
it just gives you that littlebit of an edge.
I always say to early careerpeople use your assets, you know
, use your assets.
And I'm always surprised at howmany people say well, I'm not
really comfortable in doing that.
(10:32):
I mean, for example, if you area woman and you're from an
Asian background, for examplefrom a Muslim background, and
you've got some culturalexperience from your family and
you've got language experience,why not use that, you know, to
try and seek work, to getexperience where your assets are
(10:52):
going to be useful working with, let's say, women in
reproductive health, in thesouth asian context or in a
muslim context.
I always say to people look atwhat assets you've got and try
to build on them, build on yourstrengths, rather than going out
and trying to find somethingbrand new.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah, no, that's really good advice.
So I guess you complete yourmaster's right at the beginning
of the 90s and you get someadditional experience in Ghana.
And then you mentioned youfound yourself in India doing
some work there.
Was that part of your programas well, or is that something
that you kind of intentionallysought out?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Absolutely not.
No, having, you know, done fouryears or so in Ghana, working
in a rural context, in Kumasi,you know, doing a health
promotion project.
I was then found myself jobless, you know, because it was a
contract.
So then I started looking forother contracts and I saw
another contract that come up inIndia with the British Council
managing a school health projectin Andhra Pradesh, which is a
(11:53):
state in the south of thecountry.
So I applied and, you know,went through the normal
recruiting process and wassuccessful.
So then went to India for twoyears on that project, which was
in itself a very interestingexperience professionally to
live and work in India afterhaving been in Africa, west
(12:14):
Africa for four years or so.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
You know, I think right after this you decided to
then pursue a doctoral degreeand I'm curious how you assess
the need for further educationand and kind of the thinking
that goes behind, kind ofdeciding, okay, I think it's
time for me to go and upskill,or whether it's a formal degree
(12:41):
or certification.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
I wonder how you think about that yeah, well, in
truth it was partly because Iwas burnt out professionally
after four years in West Africaand two years in India, you know
.
I mean, I was a.
These were project managementpositions, managing big projects
.
So you know, I had a wonderfulsuntan but terrible bags, bags
(13:03):
under my eyes and I just felt itwas time for a change.
And also, particularly havingbeen in India for two years, I
just found that the local peoplethere the biggest resource for
any country obviously is thehuman resource, and I just found
that the capacity of localpeople, local professionals I
was working with in India knowfar better than some of the
(13:28):
expatriates I was working with,and I thought this can't be
right.
Why are we delivering programs,projects, in a top-down way
where everything is decided by,planned by and delivered largely
by expatriates, you know?
Why aren't we using more, notonly community perspectives, but
using more local professionalcapacities?
(13:48):
And so I thought, well, I'dlike to do a PhD around that
subject, because I knew at thattime, as well, as I said earlier
to you, you know, you get to acertain level in your career,
which is about a master's degreelevel, with, let's say, 10, 15
years or so experience underyour belt, and you're just one
of very many people.
You know there are very manypeople, professionals like that,
(14:12):
and I think it's alwaysimportant to invest in yourself,
you are your biggest assetprofessionally.
And I thought, well, look, Ineed to get ahead to specialize,
to do some research on an areathat I'm interested in, and to
get ahead of the crowd, if youlike, professionally, I need to
do a master's.
And that's when I startedlooking around to see where I
(14:35):
could do a master's degree,because you know, it's not easy
necessarily to get sponsorship,get a grant to do a PhD.
It's not easy.
So I started looking and again,fortunately and I think this is
another piece of advice I wouldgive people is that for me.
I mean looking back on mycareer.
You know, one of the key pointsthat has helped me has been
(14:57):
people.
I've met, individuals that I'vemet that have helped me to step
up in my career, given me anopportunity to work or giving,
in this case, given me anopportunity to do a master's
degree.
So I've met that have helped meto step up in my career, given
me an opportunity to work orgiving, in this case, given me
an opportunity to do a master'sdegree.
So I'd been presenting my workin India at a conference in
Japan, and a guy came up to meand said look, would you like to
have a cup of coffee and we'llhave a chat about the work.
(15:19):
It's really interesting.
So we had a coffee and heactually was from Australia, a
professor, and he said said,look, we'd love to have somebody
like you at our university todo a PhD.
You'll have to apply, obviously, you know, through the normal
process, the competitive process, and you know we'll see what
happens.
So I did and they did offer mea place to do a PhD, but they
(15:40):
couldn't offer me a grant, whichis obviously a big thing.
You, you know, if you're goingto move yourself to Australia
from India at that time it's abig expense, you know to do it.
But again in my career, Ithought, well, look, you know,
to get ahead, I've got to takethat extra step, I've got to go
those extra miles.
I'll make the commitment ofgoing to Australia and maybe
(16:03):
I'll be able to find some workor something you know.
So that's what I did and, as bychance, I was offered a lot of
work, marking papers and doingthe sort of bread and butter
stuff that academics hate to do.
And that kept me going for aboutthe first six months and then I
managed to get a departmentgrant, just from the department,
not from the faculty, but justfrom the department and that was
(16:25):
enough basically to help mesurvive.
That's probably why I did my PhDin exactly three years to the
day, because, you know, you geta four year visa to do a PhD
normally, but I did mine inthree years because I didn't
really have much money and atthat time we'd just had our
first baby.
So it was a very active time.
You know, three years doing aPhD and having a child as well.
(16:46):
But looking back, it wasdefinitely the right decision
because that PhD, doing a PhD,was absolutely pivotal point in
my career.
It just lifted me above andpushed me forward, you know, in
a specialist area, to create anarea for myself and a bit of a
name for myself in the field.
(17:06):
I'm not suggesting thateverybody does a PhD it's not
for everybody, obviously butdepending on what you want, your
strategic plan, what you wantto do, what you aim to do in
public health, for me that wasthe right decision at that time.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Do you feel like, by this point, you are making
strategic decisions about thenext steps of your career?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, no definitely yeah, at that point, you're
committing to do a PhD for threeyears where you know you're not
going to have any money is abig commitment, right.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Three years out of your career, out of earning, you
know, out of your potential toearn to begin with, you know.
So it is a big commitment to doa PhD and three years is the
shortest time possible.
A lot of people take longerthan that.
You know much longer than thatif they do it part time.
So at that time, yes, I wasbeing much more strategic about
where I wanted to go.
I guess, you know, at that time, before I did my PhD, I've been
(18:04):
thinking for some time, and Ithink this is a question that
really all professionals shouldask themselves.
But you know, how can I make adifference is something I've
always asked myself during mycareer.
I mean, we all make acontribution, right, in whatever
job we're in, either workingnationally or internationally.
We all make a contributionthrough our work.
(18:25):
But I really wanted to try tomake a difference in public
health.
That was why I got involved.
Really, what you know, my realinterest was to make a
difference to the lives ofothers, to improve their lives
uh, poor people, you know,people that were disadvantaged
or powerless and also to make adifference to their health as
well.
You know, because we knowhealth is not really about
(18:49):
health as such.
It's about a whole range ofother determinants.
You know that we try toinfluence through public health,
different strategies in publichealth, so I think that's a good
question for people to askthemselves If that's what their
goal is, is to really go forwardand make a difference is to ask
themselves fairly regularly,you know every six months or
every year is what I'm doing atthis time?
(19:10):
Is it going to lead to making adifference?
You know every six months,every year is what I'm doing at
this time?
Is it going to lead to making adifference?
You know, for other people,because it's not difficult, too
difficult to make a contribution, but it's very difficult to
make a difference, I think.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Did you feel like you knew exactly how you were going
to do that upon completing yourPhD?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Not how, so much as, but what I wanted to do.
My idea was at that time.
It seems, when I talk about itnow and remember this was back
in the mid nineties, so we'retalking what 30 years ago about.
I was passionate aboutempowerment in public health,
giving people more of a voicenot just a voice, but giving
(19:51):
everyday people communities, youknow, more of a voice, not just
a voice, but giving everydaypeople communities, you know,
more of an input, more inputinto decision making about
projects and programs andpolicies that influence their
life, because I now we call itco-production and community
engagement and the co-creation.
So now it's actually, at thismoment, a very popular part, or
(20:14):
a very, you know, inhibited part, of public health.
But back then, you know, Iwould go to conferences and I
would be the only person in theroom with my hand up asking
questions, like you know well,how are you going to involve the
community in thisdecision-making process?
People just did not think aboutit.
It was all very top down, andso my goal was to try and give
(20:34):
people more of a voice in publichealth, try and get people more
involved with co-creation,co-production, you know, through
engaging with them and workingwith them.
That was what I wanted to do,how I was going to achieve that.
My strategy to achieve thatdeveloped a little bit later,
but at that time, to be honest,I was just totally focused on
trying to wake up every morningand do a day's work towards my
(20:57):
PhD.
You know that was the sort ofkey goal.
But later I started to thinkmore carefully about, well, how
exactly am I going to make adifference?
Because, I mean, public healthis very complex, isn't it?
And very broad, and, to behonest, there's a place for
everything in public health.
And I think that's part of thechallenge to young and mid-term
(21:20):
professionals is to identify, abit like water, identify what
your level is, where you feelyou can make a difference, where
you feel you are mostcomfortable in working in public
health, because there's so manydifferent levels.
I've worked at many levels inpublic health, you know, from
(21:40):
senior management positions inthe united nations right down to
being, you know, a lowly paidvolunteer and many things in
between.
So you meet certain types ofpeople that fit more comfortably
, you know, as a sort of peginto a round hole sort of thing,
then other people that don'tseem to fit very comfortably.
That's one of the reasons why Ithink it's good to try and get
(22:00):
generalized early and get someexperience across the board,
because you will find yourselfas a professional where you feel
most comfortable.
Not everyone wants to get theirhands dirty.
Working for an NGO, you know,like International Red Cross or
somebody or a small NGO out inthe field, you know every day
many people are not comfortablewith that at all.
(22:22):
They'd rather be in Washingtonor Geneva in a big meeting.
You've got to find, dependingon your personality and what
your goals are if you want to bemore effective, where you feel
most comfortable within publichealth and it is broad and you
know very broad sector.
So there are many areas thatyou can work in, not just you
(22:44):
know working, for example, infemale genital cutting or
working reproductive health orworking in non-communicable
diseases.
These are the sectors that weoften categorise public health,
rightly or wrongly, but that'show we categorise them.
But within those sectors, whichlevel are you going to work at?
You know which level do youfeel most comfortable at?
Working with the communitiesdirectly, or, you know, working
(23:06):
with a local government orworking with an NGO, or working
in research, or working as aprivate contractor or working
for the UN.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
There are many options in public health, but I
think it pays early to get afeeling, get some experience of
where you feel you might bestfit into that and it seems like
you kind of, you know, did alittle bit of everything after
your doctorate in AustraliaSeems like you went back into
the field in Vietnam and spend abit more time in the Asia
(23:43):
region.
You then came back to I guessit was in Australia.
You came back to New.
Zealand.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
And then spend some time in Switzerland and then
back to Australia.
So I noticed a little bit of achange in the type of work you
were doing following your PhDyeah, well, that's because doing
a PhD gave me moreopportunities yeah you know,
having that title of doctor andhaving a PhD specialist area
gives you more opportunities.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
It doesn't give you more money, necessarily, but it
gives you more workopportunities and, if that's
what you want, and opportunitiesfrom which you can choose where
you feel that you might havemore of an influence.
You know, for example.
So when I went to Vietnam, asyou mentioned, for a couple of
years I was an advisor withUNICEF on health and across the
(24:33):
board, really, really, of UNICEFactivities, really to get some
experience with the UN, becauseI hadn't, up to that point, had
any real experience with the UN.
And then I felt well, I'd liketo go in to get a feel for what
it's like in an academic context.
So that's when I went to NewZealand to work as a professor
and a researcher and also togive me an opportunity, because,
(24:53):
having done my PhD in Australia, you know I really loved that
region as well, the Pacificregion.
I wanted to get back into thePacific, but I'd also worked for
a year after my PhD.
I had a year extra on my visaand I'd worked for a while in
territory health with Aboriginalpeople in the north of
Australia.
So working in New Zealand gaveme academic experience.
It gave me easy access to thewell in territory health with
Aboriginal people in the northof Australia.
So working in New Zealand gaveme academic experience.
(25:16):
It gave me easy access to thePacific and it also meant I
could go back to Australia whereI worked with the Flying
Doctors, for example, out ofnorth Queensland, and work with
the Central Land Council out ofAlice Springs, for example, with
Aboriginal people.
You know it just allowed me toget a broader range of
experience and an insight intothe indigenous context as well,
(25:37):
as well as being, you know, anacademic.
And that's where I had startedbefore then and I also think
this is a bit of good advice forprofessional people to try and
leave a paper trail in yourcareer.
Leave a paper trail in yourcareer.
I've always done that in mycareer, right from early on in
my career.
You know writing papers andpublishing papers.
(25:57):
But after my PhD, when I was,you know, went to Vietnam and
then when I went to New Zealand,that's when I really got
interested in publishing books,because I realized that writing
papers had a very limitedreadership and also a paper
which is only you know, three,four thousand words or whatever,
it doesn't give you much scopeto express yourself.
So then I published my firstbook.
(26:20):
God, I can't remember when Ipublished my first book.
I think it was in about 2002, Ithink I think just after when I
finished in Vietnam and Ipublished my book based on my
PhD, obviously, and I thoughtwell, that's it, I've published
my book based on my PhD,obviously, and I thought well,
that's it.
I published a book in English,you know, on empowerment.
It was called Power andEmpowerment in Health Promotion,
(26:41):
something like that.
I thought well, that was it youknow, but as it turns out now,
you know, I've published over 26books now in 12 different
languages and I found that to beone of the strategic ways I've
tried to make a difference, Allessentially on this concept of
empowerment and power and publichealth or health promotion.
(27:05):
But I found after a time, afterI published two or three books
in English, that many people inmany different countries,
although they can read English,speak English reasonably well
they would like a book in theirown language on that subject.
So that led to a whole range ofcollaborations over the years
you know, in French, in Arabic,in Spanish and Portuguese and
(27:26):
Chinese, and you know a wholerange of languages as a means of
disseminating my ideas,disseminating my concepts, if
you like, my approaches inpublic health and health
promotion around empowerment andcommunity engagement and
co-production and these types ofthings.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
That was one of the ways, strategically, I decided
to move forward I um, I realizethere are several other places
that you worked at, going fromyour time in New Zealand to
today.
There's also kind of acompletely different topic I
(28:05):
want to ask you about.
But before we get into that, isthere a way you can summarize,
I guess, from when was that?
2009 to today, where yourcareer has taken you the later
part of your career?
Speaker 1 (28:21):
The later part of my career has really been dominated
by my specialist choice, whichwas empowerment in the context
of public health, so that, as Isay, led to many opportunities
for contracts to do short-termcontracts, to work directly with
governments, to present atconferences, to work with local
(28:43):
authorities, to write papers, towrite books.
So really I think the latter,since that part, for the last 20
years, if you like, my work hasbeen dominated by my specialist
choice, because that's the areathat I want to try and make a
difference.
Even today, even though I'mhere in Latin America at the
moment, I'm already thinkingahead through conferences and
(29:07):
books and papers and stuff I'vebeen asked to collaborate on
from other people during therest of this year and early next
year, all around this subject.
So I think that's why I say,once you do a phd or you can not
necessarily do a phd, but ifyou publish a lot in a certain
area and work with otherresearchers, for example, and
(29:27):
other key authors, you willcreate a sort of niche, if you
like, professional niche foryourself and then other people
who are interested in that willcontact you rather than you
having to contact them.
You know it sort of changes theperspective.
That's how the people come toyou.
Really I'm lucky.
(29:48):
Well, maybe partly luck andpartly by um hard work.
But you know, this whole conceptof empowerment, of
co-production, of communityengagement hasn't gone away in
public health.
I was involved with the ebolaoutbreak in west africa.
I was out there working as aacross the three countries as a
community engagement advisor andthen with covid the pendulum
(30:12):
has sort of swung, you know,away from that top-down
behaviour change,epidemiological, biomedical
stance and has swung now moretowards co-production.
Community engagement andempowerment is very much social
determinants and empowerment isvery much a part of that.
Empowerment is very much a partof that.
(30:38):
So my subject that I chose allthose years ago as part of my
PhD has continued and I thinkalways will continue because
it's a fundamental part ofaddressing inequalities, for
example.
But now it's, you know probablywell.
That's why for me there's asmuch work as ever.
I could have picked a subjectin my PhD you know from my PhD
which was completely obscure andhas never moved forward, but
(30:58):
the writing was on the wall.
You know, as I said when I wasin India, public health,
international public health,can't continue in this way
because it's just not effectivein how it's being implemented in
a top down way, in a top-downway.
So in the latter part of mycareer, yeah, it's been more
dominated by my chosen area ofspecialization, as opposed to
(31:19):
the first part of my career,which was more about
generalization and just tryingto network and just trying to
get experience under my belt.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
And you know this might be a bit of a personal
question, but you've movedaround quite a bit in the past
30 years and you did mentionthat.
I think when you were doingyour PhD you were expecting a
baby and just curious about howdifficult or easy was it to be
able to pick up and move everyfew years in pursuit of, you
(31:48):
know, a public health careerlike the one that you've kind of
built.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Like many people that work in public health.
Maybe it's more obvious forpeople that work, you know, for
the big UN organizations,because they do move themselves
part of their contracts everythree years or so.
You know they shift aroundcountries.
But with me as well, you know,in my line of work and other
people I know, like myself, it'sreally a lifestyle choice.
That's your expectation, youknow.
(32:14):
Living in Australia, living inNew Zealand, living in Vietnam,
living in Ghana, living in India, living in Geneva, you know,
living in all these places withyour family is a lifestyle
choice.
I guess it would be best to askmy kids really, because they're
all now in their 20s.
You know, late 20s it hasbenefits, I mean.
You know we picked up NewZealand citizenship when I was
(32:35):
there.
So two of my kids are in NewZealand working and living, the
two actually that were born inAustralia.
One was born in Darwin and theother one was born in Melbourne.
So they've got a sort ofaffiliation, if you like, by
birth, with that part of theworld, as well as it being a
great place to be for youngpeople.
My youngest daughter, you know,is also very, very much driven
(32:57):
to be travelling and workingoverseas and is heading off soon
to do a year of a degree inAmerica.
So I mean, I think it gets intoyour blood as well.
That's the other thing.
Once you start doing this work,once you start travelling and
working honestly, it becomes abit of an addiction.
Even now, you know, later in myyears, I can't stop traveling,
(33:18):
I can't stop networking.
I can't stop, you know, havingnew experiences.
It's just part of your lifereally, and that's why I say
you've got to find what suitsyou best early, if you can,
early in your career.
It's certainly not foreverybody, because you have to
make a lot of sacrifices movingaround everybody, because you
have to make a lot of sacrificesmoving around the world.
Uh, you have to make a lot ofsacrifices, but for some people
(33:42):
it's what they want.
Maybe some of the peoplelistening to this podcast will
think, yeah, that's what I wantto do too, you know yeah, I like
how you put it.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
It's certainly a lifestyle choice that you make
for yourself, yeah, yeah.
The other topic I want to getinto and we touched on it a
little bit and we talked aboutit before we hit record and
something that I'm very much abig advocate for is investing in
your relationships and yournetwork, starting yesterday, and
(34:13):
it's something that you need toconstantly do and not just
doing it when you need somethingright.
What's your take on investingin relationships and growing
your professional network?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
No, it's absolutely essential.
I mean, and we should considerthese as long-term relationships
.
You know, I've been, I haveprofessional relationships with
people over 20, 30 years whoI've been in touch with, you
know, over that period and theircareers have advanced and mine
has advanced and then regressed,you know.
So it's a lifestyle.
(34:48):
It's like the Asians,particularly in the Southeast
Asian perspective.
You know, you have to meetpeople face-to-face and once you
meet people face-to-face,you're meeting them.
It's for a long-termrelationship, professional
relationship.
It's 10, 20, 30 years.
That's how they see it, youknow, and even now, for me, this
(35:09):
is why I'm in Latin America,I'm traveling around and
building my network in LatinAmerica because I want to work
in this region more.
Nothing beats face-to-facecontact.
People will assess you for whoyou are, you know.
So always be honest and openwith people and yeah, and that's
the best way, I think, to buildrelationships but also
(35:30):
investing yourself in terms oftraining, online courses,
getting more experience, becauseessentially, you know, in
public health, wherever you arein the world, we're addressing
the same sort of problems.
I mean, whether it'snon-communicable diseases,
obesity or mental health, orit's addiction, or it's
infectious diseases, suggestingsome of the social determinants
(35:54):
of health around poverty orhousing or early education,
whatever it is.
We are addressing in publichealth essentially the same
issues.
It's just that wherever you arein the world, you're addressing
it from a particular context, asocial, political, economic,
historical context.
And that's the challenge inpublic health because we're all
(36:15):
drawing from the same portfolio,if you like, of models and
strategies and tools that areavailable is how you take, you
know, that selection and applyit in a particular context.
That is going to lead to aneffective intervention or
project or program or policy.
(36:36):
So that, to me, has always beenthe fascination, part of the
fascination of my work is how wedo that, this sort of so called
art and science of publichealth, how we take the evidence
not that we should look at theevidence solely, because that
can be very limiting, but how wetake what we have and build on
that to do you know, effectivestrategies.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I think that's where having a very strong and healthy
professional relationship alsocomes in.
You know, there therelationships that you build
with people, they will be thereto not only support you with
career decisions but I think theway you explained it to be able
to collaborate on projects,even if they're in a different
(37:19):
region in the world.
We're all kind of working withsimilar models and frameworks
and going back to your region tobe able to apply that and learn
from each other.
I think there's that benefit aswell in the relationships that
you establish.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I mean, I think having some sort of a mentor is
a good idea, early or mid-career.
I mean I was involved in this.
I don't know if you've heard ofthe Global Health Mentorship
Scheme.
It's available for all publichealth people.
I mentored four people lastyear from different countries
around the world over about asix-month period where we met on
(37:57):
a regular basis online and thementorship scheme gives the
mentors, such as myself, a bookand you go through that booklet
and it builds about how to do acv, how to do an interview, how
to guide your career.
You know it's a good option forearly career people the Global
Health Mentorship Scheme butthat's because I'm committed to
helping mentor people.
(38:19):
But I think in your career, ifyou can find individuals who are
well established in your fieldor the field that you want to
progress in and have a goodmutual working relationship, I
think it's a very good way ofadvancing your career.
The thing is is not many peopleavailable.
That's the problem, becausethey're always super busy and
(38:41):
they've always got other peopleasking them to help them with
their careers or, you know,write a paper or to do research
or whatever it is.
But if you can identify mentorsand it's done in a professional
way, in the right way, I thinkyou can advance your career too.
And that's all about networkingto find the right people, you
know.
I mean, the big problem isknowing what you want to do.
(39:02):
I think for a lot of peoplethey don't quite know what to
choose from and I always sayfollow your passion in public
health.
If you're passionate about aparticular thing and you know
that's what you want to do, itmakes it a little bit easier
because then you can starttrolling the literature and
identifying in the literaturewho's been publishing or working
in your particular field andyou can then link with them, you
(39:25):
know, and then set up some sortof a meeting and maybe meet
them in person ideally and thenmove forward from there.
Certainly helped me in mycareer to link up with
individuals as mentors forshort-term periods or
longer-term periods, but it hascertainly helped me sort of skip
a few of the barriers or, youknow, to open a few doors.
(39:46):
It hasn't been absolutelycrucial for my career, but it
certainly has helped a littlebit, yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Yeah, thinking about the next phase of your public
health career.
Glenn, what are you mostexcited about and looking
forward to?
Speaker 1 (40:01):
personally, I hope to be able to work in Latin
America, because I've worked onall the other continents, you
know, significant continents,and then I've worked in over 50
countries, but I haven't hadmuch experience in Latin America
.
So for me professionally, tosort of complete the wheel, if
you like the circle, I'd like tospend more time in this part of
the world.
But of course, you know, yourhistory always catches up with
(40:25):
you.
And I've just finished a bigcontract with the Eastern
Mediterranean office, you know,in the MRO, because of my
association with the Middle Eastand having done a book in
arabic and having worked thereas a professor on and off for
many years, and also as I, as Imentioned to you before, I have
a personal interest in goingback to sri lanka and setting up
(40:46):
a project there.
So I don't think I'll be ableto spend all my time in this
part of the world, but certainlyI'd like to spend part of the
year professionally in LatinAmerica, now that I have some
Spanish and it is a veryinteresting part of the world
from a public health perspective.
I think for public healthprofessionals, you know, there's
never been a better time to bedeveloping a career in public
(41:08):
health personally, because youknow things like One Health and
the pandemics we've had inrecent years and preparedness
for those pandemics, and thingslike obesity, which no country
as far as I know has managed toturn the tide, and growing
issues with mental health,particularly in, uh, adolescence
and possibly to the internet,you know, non-communicable
(41:30):
diseases, this whole issuearound migration, which has
probably been, you know, as muchas it's ever been, not just in
North America and Europe, butwithin countries in Latin
America, within countries inAfrica, for example, and that
linked to issues around urbanhealth, for example.
I mean, I think this all makesit very exciting to be working
(41:51):
in public health.
There are a lot ofopportunities and we really need
a new model in public healthfor international public health,
you know, because we haven'treally addressed issues of
migration or obesity, orpandemics or mental health.
So we need to be thinking aboutpublic health, I think, in a
different way.
We also need to be thinkingabout it regionally differently,
(42:11):
and I mean there's very littlearound Andean health.
You know, in this context, inLatin America we need to develop
more on Andean health, forexample.
You know, long term we reallyneed to be thinking about having
an organization at aninternational level which is
well equipped, obviously, todeal with international health
as well, to address all thesesorts of issues, that is well
(42:34):
equipped to do that so there's alot to do international public
health and that's why it's agood time to be coming into
public health or to be in publichealth early or mid-term to
decide which direction you knowyou want to take that's a good
reflection to hear from you,especially since you've kind of
been around in public health foralmost, I think, over three
(42:54):
decades.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
so it's good to hear that it's a good of been around
in public health for almost, Ithink, over three decades, so
it's good to hear that it's agood time to be in public health
right now.
Can we expect you in NorthAmerica?
I didn't hear you talk about.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Yeah, possibly this is also interesting moving
around the world, working aroundthe world, that public health
isn't always as well developedin some countries.
I'm saying America, but in somecountries, as you might feel,
it might be like in Europe.
For example, when I'm talkingabout public health in a
holistic way, when we're lookingat it from, you know, working
(43:26):
with communities, looking at thedeterminants of health, you
know all these sorts of issues.
Many countries still have a verytop-down epidemiological,
biomedical perspective on publichealth yeah, and then when you
overlay that with bureaucracy,with corruption, with certain
political perspectives, it canmake it even more difficult to
(43:47):
have a broader perspective onpublic health.
So for me, I've been in contactwith people in north America
and being involved in a littlebit of work in North America
around brain health, for example, and there's a concept that we
don't use in Europe but it'squite strong in America, right.
But I think places like Americaare well positioned and got
(44:07):
some excellent, very highquality people in public health.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Probably for me, it's better to spend my time in
transition countries wherepeople are really looking for
new ideas, you know well, yeah,I'm excited to follow along your
journey and kind of the workthat you're going to do in latin
america and then specificallysri lanka, since, uh- I was born
there and have, uh, I think myheart is still kind of connected
(44:32):
to that country, so I I willfor sure be following your
journey, glenn, and where canpeople maybe keep in touch with
you and read more about the workthat you're doing?
Speaker 1 (44:44):
well, everything's online these days, really isn't
it professionally?
So I mean, I have a LinkedInaccount and I have a
ResearchGate account.
I don't have a personal account.
I never really wanted to have apersonal account, like some
people really wanted to have apersonal account, as some people
do.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
But people can Google my name, I guess, online, or
look at my LinkedIn or look atmy research case.
Yeah, we'll link all of that up.
Thank you so much, glenn.
This is such a wonderful chat.
For me just to learn about thejourney that you've taken, and
I've certainly taken away lotsof personal reflections from
this as well.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Well, thank you very much for the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Hey, I hope you enjoyed that episode and if you
want to get the links orinformation mentioned in today's
episode, you can head over tophspotorg slash podcast and
we'll have everything there foryou.
And before you go go, I want totell you about the public
health career club.
So if you've been looking for aplace to connect and build
(45:42):
meaningful relationships withother public health
professionals from all aroundthe world, you should join us in
the public health career club.
We launched the club with thevision of becoming the number
one hangout spot dedicated tobuilding and growing your dream
public health career.
And in addition to being ableto connect and build those
(46:03):
meaningful relationships withother public health
professionals, the club alsooffers other great resources for
your career growth and success,like mindset coaching, job
preparation clinics and careergrowth strategy sessions in the
form of trainings and talks, alldelivered by experts and
inspiring individuals in theseareas.
So if you want to learn more orwant to join the club, you can
(46:25):
visit our page at phspotorgslash club and we'll have all
the information there.
We'll have all the informationthere and you know, as a space
that's being intentionallycurated to bring together
like-minded public healthprofessionals who are not only
there to push themselves tobecome the best versions of
themselves, but also each other.
And with that I can't wait tosee how this is going to have a
(46:51):
ripple effect in the world, aswe all work together to better
the health of our populationsand just have immense impact in
the world.
And I hope you'll be joining usin the Public Health Career
Club.
I think that's a good question for people to ask
themselves.
That's what their goal is.
Is to really go forward andmake a difference is to ask
themselves is what I'm doing atthis time?
Is it going to lead to making adifference for other people?
Because it's not too difficultto make a contribution, but it's
very difficult to make adifference.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to PH Spotlight, a community for you
to build your public healthcareer with.
Join us weekly right here, andI'll be here too.
Your host, sujani Siva from PHSpot.
Hi, glenn, and welcome to thePH Spot podcast.
So lovely to finally meet youafter kind of, you know,
(00:46):
stumbling on your LinkedInprofile, and I'm really happy
you are doing this today.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Me too.
Yeah, really nice to be hereand really appreciate the
invitation.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
So you know, I know you have a long, long, long
history with public health andone of the questions I love
hearing the answer to is kind ofhow people have found public
health as a career.
And so I'm curious to hear fromyou, like, having built a 30
year career, can you rememberand go back to that point in
(01:19):
time?
Maybe you actually discoveredpublic health and kind of
identified it as a potentialcareer path for you?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, I mean it was almost by default, because my
undergraduate degree wasessentially in public health.
It was a four year degree callit a four year sandwich which
the third year is a full year inpractice.
You know, working for a localin my case, working for a local
authority in London but when Iwas looking to do an
undergraduate degree, I waslooking at different options.
(01:49):
I was more interested, I think,at that time, in the
environment actually, and I waslooking for different courses.
I applied for different coursesand then I saw, you know, this
course online at LeedsUniversity in the UK and I
applied and you know wassuccessful.
I was successful with others,but at that time then, having
read more about what publichealth was and what it meant and
(02:10):
just you know a wide variety ofopportunities it offered, I
decided to do that course.
So it wasn't that I planned itin advance, it was just probably
like a lot of people, when theystart looking at different
courses, they start seeing newthings, you know yeah, so this
was in the late 1970s, early 80sand so that's right yeah when
(02:34):
you're doing this degree, whatdid you imagine your public
health career to look like?
well, at that time that coursewas specifically designed to
become a sort of public healthinspector, so it was a
vocational course.
So the idea was you did thatcourse and at the end of it you
got a job with a local authority, you know, and that actually
evolved into what is now calledenvironmental health,
(02:56):
environmental health officers,but at that time it was very
much public health.
So the idea was I would do thecourse, which I did, and then I
did work for just under a yearat a local authority in the
United Kingdom.
So that was, you know reallywhat my idea was.
But then somebody mentioned tome voluntary services overseas,
(03:18):
which is a bit like the AmericanPeace Corps, and I apply and I
made some inquiries and Iactually put in an application
for that and that that's reallygot, because my whole career
from that point on, for the last35 years or so, has been in
international public health.
And so I think what reallytriggered me, if you like, was
(03:40):
my time I spent as a volunteer,which ended up being in Sri
Lanka living in a rural area foralmost two years, you know,
without electricity, withoutrunning water.
Basically, in those days it wasliving on $2 a day.
Your salary was about $60 amonth, you know.
So you really had to live likelocals, lived, had to learn to
(04:00):
speak Sinhala, because you knowthe village spoke English well
enough to communicate with.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
So I think it was that experience, that really
grassroots experience, thattriggered me, triggered my whole
career from that point on toworking and living in low middle
income countries, essentiallybecause then from then on, you
essentially built a careermoving around different
communities and it looks likeyou wrapped up that work, for
(04:30):
you know that you did for twoyears in Sri Lanka and you went
back to get a master's degreeand I suppose that was quite
intentional, right, you'reseeing this pathway.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Well, one thing leads to another really, and I think
I applied for a scholarship fromthe British government to do a
master's degree and you knowit's not easy getting
scholarships even then I mean,it's probably harder now to get
scholarships to do a master'sdegree but having I knew that,
having two years experienceunder my belt, and this is why I
always advise to youngprofessionals get some good
(05:02):
experience early in your career.
Young professionals, get somegood experience early in your
career.
In a way that's really going todetermine the the professional
you're going to develop into inthe future.
You know, because I've been inmany meetings, you know, with
high level meetings, with peopleat the world bank and us,
different un organizations, andpeople really don't have any
idea about how, you know, poorpeople in low and middle income
(05:25):
countries live.
They have no idea and yetthey're sat there, you know,
trying to develop policies forthose people.
So I always say the bestexperience you can get is
firsthand experience at thegrassroots level, whether it's
for three months, six months or,like in my case, nearly two
years.
It really will pay dividends forthe future and it paid
(05:45):
dividends for me because I'msure my two years experience is
what stood out in my applicationwhen I applied for a master's
degree and I was successful ingetting onto a master's course
to study health promotion atmaster's.
That master's was also thenlinked to a period of one year
as a trainee with Britishgovernment, which I went to
(06:07):
Ghana to do.
So I got another year'sexperience out of it.
But none of that would havehappened had I not first made
that commitment.
I made that sacrifice, if youlike, because there was no
salary involved for two yearsand it's very hard living under
those conditions.
But that really led on to otherthings.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
You know, and this has always been my experience in
in my career if you're willingto go that little bit extra, go
that extra mile, you know itoften pays dividends in the
future yeah, and just thinkingabout you know, and I know
you're a professor and comeacross lots of students and
early career professionalsthere's that pressure that early
(06:48):
professionals put on themselvesto kind of like get it right or
get it perfect right out ofschool.
And I wonder, you know, justreflecting on your own career,
like advice for those folks whoare very early in their career
and I think you mentioned alittle bit on that just to get
as much experience as you canand not put so much pressure on
(07:09):
yourself to figure out thatperfect path that you're working
towards right.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, exactly, I mean , I think the general advice is
generalize and then specialize,you know, in public health,
which is good advice.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, and so in your case you kind of went into this,
the world of international work, and then would you say, even
during your master's you werequite general.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I've been always being general and I would never
put my career forward as a modelfor a career path, because a
lot of overseas work iscontractual.
So I've, you know, I've done alot of contracts in my career
probably over 100 contracts, Ithink and when you are in that
position you sort of staggerfrom one contract to the next,
(07:54):
you know.
So I went from Sri Lanka toGhana and then from Ghana to
India, for example, you know,one contract to another.
So much of my career has neverbeen planned Because I've worked
a lot in many differentcountries.
I wouldn't say I've specialized.
In terms of.
You know, my advice would be,you know, to plan early and to
(08:14):
think long, obviously to thinkstrategically, because I meet a
lot of young career people,public health professionals, and
I'm always so impressed withthem because they're very savvy,
as you say.
And I'm always so impressed withthem because they're very savvy
, as you say, often they've gotsome experience and well
qualified and very motivated,you know.
So to me the field of publichealth now is more competitive
(08:37):
in terms of developing a careerthan it's ever been.
You know, from the young peopleI meet At an early start
they're very professionallyminded, which I never was really
.
I was just more interested intrying to get overseas and have
different experiences,professional experiences in
different countries.
I wasn't very strategic aboutit at an early stage in my
career, but I think had I beenmore strategic and I thought
(09:00):
about which region I wanted towork in in the world and
therefore thought about whichlanguages I needed, for example,
or which countries I needed toget experience in in that region
, maybe I would have been ableto advance my career quicker,
you know.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
How much do you think one should be strategic versus
lead with curiosity and explore?
I?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
think early in your career, be curious, you know,
get out there and just get thatexperience and try to get a
variety of experience under yourbelt on your CV Because myself,
having looked through hundredsof CVs for recruiting people in
different projects, differentjobs, often you know, for
recruiting people in differentprojects, different jobs, often
(09:51):
you know people that all meetthe criteria for the job you
know and have the same level ofqualification.
And master's say you're alwayslooking for something different.
You know you're looking forsomeone that stands out and, as
I say, it's a very competitivemarket so it's difficult often
to find someone that stands out.
So if you've got that littlebit of extra experience say you
know, three months in India orthree months in Nepal, if you're
(10:11):
thinking of working in SouthAsia, that's going to stand out
on your CV and when you're upagainst other people with a
master's degree like you have,you know it just gives you that
little bit of an edge.
I always say to early careerpeople use your assets, you know
it just gives you that littlebit of an edge.
I always say to early careerpeople use your assets, you know
, use your assets.
And I'm always surprised at howmany people say well, I'm not
really comfortable in doing that.
(10:32):
I mean, for example, if you area woman and you're from an
Asian background, for examplefrom a Muslim background, and
you've got some culturalexperience from your family and
you've got language experience,why not use that, you know, to
try and seek work, to getexperience where your assets are
(10:52):
going to be useful working with, let's say, women in
reproductive health, in thesouth asian context or in a
muslim context.
I always say to people look atwhat assets you've got and try
to build on them, build on yourstrengths, rather than going out
and trying to find somethingbrand new.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah, no, that's really good advice.
So I guess you complete yourmaster's right at the beginning
of the 90s and you get someadditional experience in Ghana.
And then you mentioned youfound yourself in India doing
some work there.
Was that part of your programas well, or is that something
that you kind of intentionallysought out?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Absolutely not.
No, having, you know, done fouryears or so in Ghana, working
in a rural context, in Kumasi,you know, doing a health
promotion project.
I was then found myself jobless, you know, because it was a
contract.
So then I started looking forother contracts and I saw
another contract that come up inIndia with the British Council
managing a school health projectin Andhra Pradesh, which is a
(11:53):
state in the south of thecountry.
So I applied and, you know,went through the normal
recruiting process and wassuccessful.
So then went to India for twoyears on that project, which was
in itself a very interestingexperience professionally to
live and work in India afterhaving been in Africa, west
(12:14):
Africa for four years or so.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
You know, I think right after this you decided to
then pursue a doctoral degreeand I'm curious how you assess
the need for further educationand and kind of the thinking
that goes behind, kind ofdeciding, okay, I think it's
time for me to go and upskill,or whether it's a formal degree
(12:41):
or certification.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
I wonder how you think about that yeah, well, in
truth it was partly because Iwas burnt out professionally
after four years in West Africaand two years in India, you know
.
I mean, I was a.
These were project managementpositions, managing big projects
.
So you know, I had a wonderfulsuntan but terrible bags, bags
(13:03):
under my eyes and I just felt itwas time for a change.
And also, particularly havingbeen in India for two years, I
just found that the local peoplethere the biggest resource for
any country obviously is thehuman resource, and I just found
that the capacity of localpeople, local professionals I
was working with in India knowfar better than some of the
(13:28):
expatriates I was working with,and I thought this can't be
right.
Why are we delivering programs,projects, in a top-down way
where everything is decided by,planned by and delivered largely
by expatriates, you know?
Why aren't we using more, notonly community perspectives, but
using more local professionalcapacities?
(13:48):
And so I thought, well, I'dlike to do a PhD around that
subject, because I knew at thattime, as well, as I said earlier
to you, you know, you get to acertain level in your career,
which is about a master's degreelevel, with, let's say, 10, 15
years or so experience underyour belt, and you're just one
of very many people.
You know there are very manypeople, professionals like that,
(14:12):
and I think it's alwaysimportant to invest in yourself,
you are your biggest assetprofessionally.
And I thought, well, look, Ineed to get ahead to specialize,
to do some research on an areathat I'm interested in, and to
get ahead of the crowd, if youlike, professionally, I need to
do a master's.
And that's when I startedlooking around to see where I
(14:35):
could do a master's degree,because you know, it's not easy
necessarily to get sponsorship,get a grant to do a PhD.
It's not easy.
So I started looking and again,fortunately and I think this is
another piece of advice I wouldgive people is that for me.
I mean looking back on mycareer.
You know, one of the key pointsthat has helped me has been
(14:57):
people.
I've met, individuals that I'vemet that have helped me to step
up in my career, given me anopportunity to work or giving,
in this case, given me anopportunity to do a master's
degree.
So I've met that have helped meto step up in my career, given
me an opportunity to work orgiving, in this case, given me
an opportunity to do a master'sdegree.
So I'd been presenting my workin India at a conference in
Japan, and a guy came up to meand said look, would you like to
have a cup of coffee and we'llhave a chat about the work.
(15:19):
It's really interesting.
So we had a coffee and heactually was from Australia, a
professor, and he said said,look, we'd love to have somebody
like you at our university todo a PhD.
You'll have to apply, obviously, you know, through the normal
process, the competitive process, and you know we'll see what
happens.
So I did and they did offer mea place to do a PhD, but they
(15:40):
couldn't offer me a grant, whichis obviously a big thing.
You, you know, if you're goingto move yourself to Australia
from India at that time it's abig expense, you know to do it.
But again in my career, Ithought, well, look, you know,
to get ahead, I've got to takethat extra step, I've got to go
those extra miles.
I'll make the commitment ofgoing to Australia and maybe
(16:03):
I'll be able to find some workor something you know.
So that's what I did and, as bychance, I was offered a lot of
work, marking papers and doingthe sort of bread and butter
stuff that academics hate to do.
And that kept me going for aboutthe first six months and then I
managed to get a departmentgrant, just from the department,
not from the faculty, but justfrom the department and that was
(16:25):
enough basically to help mesurvive.
That's probably why I did my PhDin exactly three years to the
day, because, you know, you geta four year visa to do a PhD
normally, but I did mine inthree years because I didn't
really have much money and atthat time we'd just had our
first baby.
So it was a very active time.
You know, three years doing aPhD and having a child as well.
(16:46):
But looking back, it wasdefinitely the right decision
because that PhD, doing a PhD,was absolutely pivotal point in
my career.
It just lifted me above andpushed me forward, you know, in
a specialist area, to create anarea for myself and a bit of a
name for myself in the field.
(17:06):
I'm not suggesting thateverybody does a PhD it's not
for everybody, obviously butdepending on what you want, your
strategic plan, what you wantto do, what you aim to do in
public health, for me that wasthe right decision at that time.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Do you feel like, by this point, you are making
strategic decisions about thenext steps of your career?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, no definitely yeah, at that point, you're
committing to do a PhD for threeyears where you know you're not
going to have any money is abig commitment, right.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Three years out of your career, out of earning, you
know, out of your potential toearn to begin with, you know.
So it is a big commitment to doa PhD and three years is the
shortest time possible.
A lot of people take longerthan that.
You know much longer than thatif they do it part time.
So at that time, yes, I wasbeing much more strategic about
where I wanted to go.
I guess, you know, at that time, before I did my PhD, I've been
(18:04):
thinking for some time, and Ithink this is a question that
really all professionals shouldask themselves.
But you know, how can I make adifference is something I've
always asked myself during mycareer.
I mean, we all make acontribution, right, in whatever
job we're in, either workingnationally or internationally.
We all make a contributionthrough our work.
(18:25):
But I really wanted to try tomake a difference in public
health.
That was why I got involved.
Really, what you know, my realinterest was to make a
difference to the lives ofothers, to improve their lives
uh, poor people, you know,people that were disadvantaged
or powerless and also to make adifference to their health as
well.
You know, because we knowhealth is not really about
(18:49):
health as such.
It's about a whole range ofother determinants.
You know that we try toinfluence through public health,
different strategies in publichealth, so I think that's a good
question for people to askthemselves If that's what their
goal is, is to really go forwardand make a difference is to ask
themselves fairly regularly,you know every six months or
every year is what I'm doing atthis time?
(19:10):
Is it going to lead to making adifference?
You know every six months,every year is what I'm doing at
this time?
Is it going to lead to making adifference?
You know, for other people,because it's not difficult, too
difficult to make a contribution, but it's very difficult to
make a difference, I think.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Did you feel like you knew exactly how you were going
to do that upon completing yourPhD?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Not how, so much as, but what I wanted to do.
My idea was at that time.
It seems, when I talk about itnow and remember this was back
in the mid nineties, so we'retalking what 30 years ago about.
I was passionate aboutempowerment in public health,
giving people more of a voicenot just a voice, but giving
(19:51):
everyday people communities, youknow, more of a voice, not just
a voice, but giving everydaypeople communities, you know,
more of an input, more inputinto decision making about
projects and programs andpolicies that influence their
life, because I now we call itco-production and community
engagement and the co-creation.
So now it's actually, at thismoment, a very popular part, or
(20:14):
a very, you know, inhibited part, of public health.
But back then, you know, Iwould go to conferences and I
would be the only person in theroom with my hand up asking
questions, like you know well,how are you going to involve the
community in thisdecision-making process?
People just did not think aboutit.
It was all very top down, andso my goal was to try and give
(20:34):
people more of a voice in publichealth, try and get people more
involved with co-creation,co-production, you know, through
engaging with them and workingwith them.
That was what I wanted to do,how I was going to achieve that.
My strategy to achieve thatdeveloped a little bit later,
but at that time, to be honest,I was just totally focused on
trying to wake up every morningand do a day's work towards my
(20:57):
PhD.
You know that was the sort ofkey goal.
But later I started to thinkmore carefully about, well, how
exactly am I going to make adifference?
Because, I mean, public healthis very complex, isn't it?
And very broad, and, to behonest, there's a place for
everything in public health.
And I think that's part of thechallenge to young and mid-term
(21:20):
professionals is to identify, abit like water, identify what
your level is, where you feelyou can make a difference, where
you feel you are mostcomfortable in working in public
health, because there's so manydifferent levels.
I've worked at many levels inpublic health, you know, from
(21:40):
senior management positions inthe united nations right down to
being, you know, a lowly paidvolunteer and many things in
between.
So you meet certain types ofpeople that fit more comfortably
, you know, as a sort of peginto a round hole sort of thing,
then other people that don'tseem to fit very comfortably.
That's one of the reasons why Ithink it's good to try and get
(22:00):
generalized early and get someexperience across the board,
because you will find yourselfas a professional where you feel
most comfortable.
Not everyone wants to get theirhands dirty.
Working for an NGO, you know,like International Red Cross or
somebody or a small NGO out inthe field, you know every day
many people are not comfortablewith that at all.
(22:22):
They'd rather be in Washingtonor Geneva in a big meeting.
You've got to find, dependingon your personality and what
your goals are if you want to bemore effective, where you feel
most comfortable within publichealth and it is broad and you
know very broad sector.
So there are many areas thatyou can work in, not just you
(22:44):
know working, for example, infemale genital cutting or
working reproductive health orworking in non-communicable
diseases.
These are the sectors that weoften categorise public health,
rightly or wrongly, but that'show we categorise them.
But within those sectors, whichlevel are you going to work at?
You know which level do youfeel most comfortable at?
Working with the communitiesdirectly, or, you know, working
(23:06):
with a local government orworking with an NGO, or working
in research, or working as aprivate contractor or working
for the UN.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
There are many options in public health, but I
think it pays early to get afeeling, get some experience of
where you feel you might bestfit into that and it seems like
you kind of, you know, did alittle bit of everything after
your doctorate in AustraliaSeems like you went back into
the field in Vietnam and spend abit more time in the Asia
(23:43):
region.
You then came back to I guessit was in Australia.
You came back to New.
Zealand.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
And then spend some time in Switzerland and then
back to Australia.
So I noticed a little bit of achange in the type of work you
were doing following your PhDyeah, well, that's because doing
a PhD gave me moreopportunities yeah you know,
having that title of doctor andhaving a PhD specialist area
gives you more opportunities.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
It doesn't give you more money, necessarily, but it
gives you more workopportunities and, if that's
what you want, and opportunitiesfrom which you can choose where
you feel that you might havemore of an influence.
You know, for example.
So when I went to Vietnam, asyou mentioned, for a couple of
years I was an advisor withUNICEF on health and across the
(24:33):
board, really, really, of UNICEFactivities, really to get some
experience with the UN, becauseI hadn't, up to that point, had
any real experience with the UN.
And then I felt well, I'd liketo go in to get a feel for what
it's like in an academic context.
So that's when I went to NewZealand to work as a professor
and a researcher and also togive me an opportunity, because,
(24:53):
having done my PhD in Australia, you know I really loved that
region as well, the Pacificregion.
I wanted to get back into thePacific, but I'd also worked for
a year after my PhD.
I had a year extra on my visaand I'd worked for a while in
territory health with Aboriginalpeople in the north of
Australia.
So working in New Zealand gaveme academic experience.
It gave me easy access to thewell in territory health with
Aboriginal people in the northof Australia.
So working in New Zealand gaveme academic experience.
(25:16):
It gave me easy access to thePacific and it also meant I
could go back to Australia whereI worked with the Flying
Doctors, for example, out ofnorth Queensland, and work with
the Central Land Council out ofAlice Springs, for example, with
Aboriginal people.
You know it just allowed me toget a broader range of
experience and an insight intothe indigenous context as well,
(25:37):
as well as being, you know, anacademic.
And that's where I had startedbefore then and I also think
this is a bit of good advice forprofessional people to try and
leave a paper trail in yourcareer.
Leave a paper trail in yourcareer.
I've always done that in mycareer, right from early on in
my career.
You know writing papers andpublishing papers.
(25:57):
But after my PhD, when I was,you know, went to Vietnam and
then when I went to New Zealand,that's when I really got
interested in publishing books,because I realized that writing
papers had a very limitedreadership and also a paper
which is only you know, three,four thousand words or whatever,
it doesn't give you much scopeto express yourself.
So then I published my firstbook.
(26:20):
God, I can't remember when Ipublished my first book.
I think it was in about 2002, Ithink I think just after when I
finished in Vietnam and Ipublished my book based on my
PhD, obviously, and I thoughtwell, that's it, I've published
my book based on my PhD,obviously, and I thought well,
that's it.
I published a book in English,you know, on empowerment.
It was called Power andEmpowerment in Health Promotion,
(26:41):
something like that.
I thought well, that was it youknow, but as it turns out now,
you know, I've published over 26books now in 12 different
languages and I found that to beone of the strategic ways I've
tried to make a difference, Allessentially on this concept of
empowerment and power and publichealth or health promotion.
(27:05):
But I found after a time, afterI published two or three books
in English, that many people inmany different countries,
although they can read English,speak English reasonably well
they would like a book in theirown language on that subject.
So that led to a whole range ofcollaborations over the years
you know, in French, in Arabic,in Spanish and Portuguese and
(27:26):
Chinese, and you know a wholerange of languages as a means of
disseminating my ideas,disseminating my concepts, if
you like, my approaches inpublic health and health
promotion around empowerment andcommunity engagement and
co-production and these types ofthings.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
That was one of the ways, strategically, I decided
to move forward I um, I realizethere are several other places
that you worked at, going fromyour time in New Zealand to
today.
There's also kind of acompletely different topic I
(28:05):
want to ask you about.
But before we get into that, isthere a way you can summarize,
I guess, from when was that?
2009 to today, where yourcareer has taken you the later
part of your career?
Speaker 1 (28:21):
The later part of my career has really been dominated
by my specialist choice, whichwas empowerment in the context
of public health, so that, as Isay, led to many opportunities
for contracts to do short-termcontracts, to work directly with
governments, to present atconferences, to work with local
(28:43):
authorities, to write papers, towrite books.
So really I think the latter,since that part, for the last 20
years, if you like, my work hasbeen dominated by my specialist
choice, because that's the areathat I want to try and make a
difference.
Even today, even though I'mhere in Latin America at the
moment, I'm already thinkingahead through conferences and
(29:07):
books and papers and stuff I'vebeen asked to collaborate on
from other people during therest of this year and early next
year, all around this subject.
So I think that's why I say,once you do a phd or you can not
necessarily do a phd, but ifyou publish a lot in a certain
area and work with otherresearchers, for example, and
(29:27):
other key authors, you willcreate a sort of niche, if you
like, professional niche foryourself and then other people
who are interested in that willcontact you rather than you
having to contact them.
You know it sort of changes theperspective.
That's how the people come toyou.
Really I'm lucky.
(29:48):
Well, maybe partly luck andpartly by um hard work.
But you know, this whole conceptof empowerment, of
co-production, of communityengagement hasn't gone away in
public health.
I was involved with the ebolaoutbreak in west africa.
I was out there working as aacross the three countries as a
community engagement advisor andthen with covid the pendulum
(30:12):
has sort of swung, you know,away from that top-down
behaviour change,epidemiological, biomedical
stance and has swung now moretowards co-production.
Community engagement andempowerment is very much social
determinants and empowerment isvery much a part of that.
Empowerment is very much a partof that.
(30:38):
So my subject that I chose allthose years ago as part of my
PhD has continued and I thinkalways will continue because
it's a fundamental part ofaddressing inequalities, for
example.
But now it's, you know probablywell.
That's why for me there's asmuch work as ever.
I could have picked a subjectin my PhD you know from my PhD
which was completely obscure andhas never moved forward, but
(30:58):
the writing was on the wall.
You know, as I said when I wasin India, public health,
international public health,can't continue in this way
because it's just not effectivein how it's being implemented in
a top down way, in a top-downway.
So in the latter part of mycareer, yeah, it's been more
dominated by my chosen area ofspecialization, as opposed to
(31:19):
the first part of my career,which was more about
generalization and just tryingto network and just trying to
get experience under my belt.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
And you know this might be a bit of a personal
question, but you've movedaround quite a bit in the past
30 years and you did mentionthat.
I think when you were doingyour PhD you were expecting a
baby and just curious about howdifficult or easy was it to be
able to pick up and move everyfew years in pursuit of, you
(31:48):
know, a public health careerlike the one that you've kind of
built.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Like many people that work in public health.
Maybe it's more obvious forpeople that work, you know, for
the big UN organizations,because they do move themselves
part of their contracts everythree years or so.
You know they shift aroundcountries.
But with me as well, you know,in my line of work and other
people I know, like myself, it'sreally a lifestyle choice.
That's your expectation, youknow.
(32:14):
Living in Australia, living inNew Zealand, living in Vietnam,
living in Ghana, living in India, living in Geneva, you know,
living in all these places withyour family is a lifestyle
choice.
I guess it would be best to askmy kids really, because they're
all now in their 20s.
You know, late 20s it hasbenefits, I mean.
You know we picked up NewZealand citizenship when I was
(32:35):
there.
So two of my kids are in NewZealand working and living, the
two actually that were born inAustralia.
One was born in Darwin and theother one was born in Melbourne.
So they've got a sort ofaffiliation, if you like, by
birth, with that part of theworld, as well as it being a
great place to be for youngpeople.
My youngest daughter, you know,is also very, very much driven
(32:57):
to be travelling and workingoverseas and is heading off soon
to do a year of a degree inAmerica.
So I mean, I think it gets intoyour blood as well.
That's the other thing.
Once you start doing this work,once you start travelling and
working honestly, it becomes abit of an addiction.
Even now, you know, later in myyears, I can't stop traveling,
(33:18):
I can't stop networking.
I can't stop, you know, havingnew experiences.
It's just part of your lifereally, and that's why I say
you've got to find what suitsyou best early, if you can,
early in your career.
It's certainly not foreverybody, because you have to
make a lot of sacrifices movingaround everybody, because you
have to make a lot of sacrificesmoving around the world.
Uh, you have to make a lot ofsacrifices, but for some people
(33:42):
it's what they want.
Maybe some of the peoplelistening to this podcast will
think, yeah, that's what I wantto do too, you know yeah, I like
how you put it.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
It's certainly a lifestyle choice that you make
for yourself, yeah, yeah.
The other topic I want to getinto and we touched on it a
little bit and we talked aboutit before we hit record and
something that I'm very much abig advocate for is investing in
your relationships and yournetwork, starting yesterday, and
(34:13):
it's something that you need toconstantly do and not just
doing it when you need somethingright.
What's your take on investingin relationships and growing
your professional network?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
No, it's absolutely essential.
I mean, and we should considerthese as long-term relationships
.
You know, I've been, I haveprofessional relationships with
people over 20, 30 years whoI've been in touch with, you
know, over that period and theircareers have advanced and mine
has advanced and then regressed,you know.
So it's a lifestyle.
(34:48):
It's like the Asians,particularly in the Southeast
Asian perspective.
You know, you have to meetpeople face-to-face and once you
meet people face-to-face,you're meeting them.
It's for a long-termrelationship, professional
relationship.
It's 10, 20, 30 years.
That's how they see it, youknow, and even now, for me, this
(35:09):
is why I'm in Latin America,I'm traveling around and
building my network in LatinAmerica because I want to work
in this region more.
Nothing beats face-to-facecontact.
People will assess you for whoyou are, you know.
So always be honest and openwith people and yeah, and that's
the best way, I think, to buildrelationships but also
(35:30):
investing yourself in terms oftraining, online courses,
getting more experience, becauseessentially, you know, in
public health, wherever you arein the world, we're addressing
the same sort of problems.
I mean, whether it'snon-communicable diseases,
obesity or mental health, orit's addiction, or it's
infectious diseases, suggestingsome of the social determinants
(35:54):
of health around poverty orhousing or early education,
whatever it is.
We are addressing in publichealth essentially the same
issues.
It's just that wherever you arein the world, you're addressing
it from a particular context, asocial, political, economic,
historical context.
And that's the challenge inpublic health because we're all
(36:15):
drawing from the same portfolio,if you like, of models and
strategies and tools that areavailable is how you take, you
know, that selection and applyit in a particular context.
That is going to lead to aneffective intervention or
project or program or policy.
(36:36):
So that, to me, has always beenthe fascination, part of the
fascination of my work is how wedo that, this sort of so called
art and science of publichealth, how we take the evidence
not that we should look at theevidence solely, because that
can be very limiting, but how wetake what we have and build on
that to do you know, effectivestrategies.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I think that's where having a very strong and healthy
professional relationship alsocomes in.
You know, there therelationships that you build
with people, they will be thereto not only support you with
career decisions but I think theway you explained it to be able
to collaborate on projects,even if they're in a different
(37:19):
region in the world.
We're all kind of working withsimilar models and frameworks
and going back to your region tobe able to apply that and learn
from each other.
I think there's that benefit aswell in the relationships that
you establish.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I mean, I think having some sort of a mentor is
a good idea, early or mid-career.
I mean I was involved in this.
I don't know if you've heard ofthe Global Health Mentorship
Scheme.
It's available for all publichealth people.
I mentored four people lastyear from different countries
around the world over about asix-month period where we met on
(37:57):
a regular basis online and thementorship scheme gives the
mentors, such as myself, a bookand you go through that booklet
and it builds about how to do acv, how to do an interview, how
to guide your career.
You know it's a good option forearly career people the Global
Health Mentorship Scheme butthat's because I'm committed to
helping mentor people.
(38:19):
But I think in your career, ifyou can find individuals who are
well established in your fieldor the field that you want to
progress in and have a goodmutual working relationship, I
think it's a very good way ofadvancing your career.
The thing is is not many peopleavailable.
That's the problem, becausethey're always super busy and
(38:41):
they've always got other peopleasking them to help them with
their careers or, you know,write a paper or to do research
or whatever it is.
But if you can identify mentorsand it's done in a professional
way, in the right way, I thinkyou can advance your career too.
And that's all about networkingto find the right people, you
know.
I mean, the big problem isknowing what you want to do.
(39:02):
I think for a lot of peoplethey don't quite know what to
choose from and I always sayfollow your passion in public
health.
If you're passionate about aparticular thing and you know
that's what you want to do, itmakes it a little bit easier
because then you can starttrolling the literature and
identifying in the literaturewho's been publishing or working
in your particular field andyou can then link with them, you
(39:25):
know, and then set up some sortof a meeting and maybe meet
them in person ideally and thenmove forward from there.
Certainly helped me in mycareer to link up with
individuals as mentors forshort-term periods or
longer-term periods, but it hascertainly helped me sort of skip
a few of the barriers or, youknow, to open a few doors.
(39:46):
It hasn't been absolutelycrucial for my career, but it
certainly has helped a littlebit, yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Yeah, thinking about the next phase of your public
health career.
Glenn, what are you mostexcited about and looking
forward to?
Speaker 1 (40:01):
personally, I hope to be able to work in Latin
America, because I've worked onall the other continents, you
know, significant continents,and then I've worked in over 50
countries, but I haven't hadmuch experience in Latin America
.
So for me professionally, tosort of complete the wheel, if
you like the circle, I'd like tospend more time in this part of
the world.
But of course, you know, yourhistory always catches up with
(40:25):
you.
And I've just finished a bigcontract with the Eastern
Mediterranean office, you know,in the MRO, because of my
association with the Middle Eastand having done a book in
arabic and having worked thereas a professor on and off for
many years, and also as I, as Imentioned to you before, I have
a personal interest in goingback to sri lanka and setting up
(40:46):
a project there.
So I don't think I'll be ableto spend all my time in this
part of the world, but certainlyI'd like to spend part of the
year professionally in LatinAmerica, now that I have some
Spanish and it is a veryinteresting part of the world
from a public health perspective.
I think for public healthprofessionals, you know, there's
never been a better time to bedeveloping a career in public
(41:08):
health personally, because youknow things like One Health and
the pandemics we've had inrecent years and preparedness
for those pandemics, and thingslike obesity, which no country
as far as I know has managed toturn the tide, and growing
issues with mental health,particularly in, uh, adolescence
and possibly to the internet,you know, non-communicable
(41:30):
diseases, this whole issuearound migration, which has
probably been, you know, as muchas it's ever been, not just in
North America and Europe, butwithin countries in Latin
America, within countries inAfrica, for example, and that
linked to issues around urbanhealth, for example.
I mean, I think this all makesit very exciting to be working
(41:51):
in public health.
There are a lot ofopportunities and we really need
a new model in public healthfor international public health,
you know, because we haven'treally addressed issues of
migration or obesity, orpandemics or mental health.
So we need to be thinking aboutpublic health, I think, in a
different way.
We also need to be thinkingabout it regionally differently,
(42:11):
and I mean there's very littlearound Andean health.
You know, in this context, inLatin America we need to develop
more on Andean health, forexample.
You know, long term we reallyneed to be thinking about having
an organization at aninternational level which is
well equipped, obviously, todeal with international health
as well, to address all thesesorts of issues, that is well
(42:34):
equipped to do that so there's alot to do international public
health and that's why it's agood time to be coming into
public health or to be in publichealth early or mid-term to
decide which direction you knowyou want to take that's a good
reflection to hear from you,especially since you've kind of
been around in public health foralmost, I think, over three
(42:54):
decades.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
so it's good to hear that it's a good of been around
in public health for almost, Ithink, over three decades, so
it's good to hear that it's agood time to be in public health
right now.
Can we expect you in NorthAmerica?
I didn't hear you talk about.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Yeah, possibly this is also interesting moving
around the world, working aroundthe world, that public health
isn't always as well developedin some countries.
I'm saying America, but in somecountries, as you might feel,
it might be like in Europe.
For example, when I'm talkingabout public health in a
holistic way, when we're lookingat it from, you know, working
(43:26):
with communities, looking at thedeterminants of health, you
know all these sorts of issues.
Many countries still have a verytop-down epidemiological,
biomedical perspective on publichealth yeah, and then when you
overlay that with bureaucracy,with corruption, with certain
political perspectives, it canmake it even more difficult to
(43:47):
have a broader perspective onpublic health.
So for me, I've been in contactwith people in north America
and being involved in a littlebit of work in North America
around brain health, for example, and there's a concept that we
don't use in Europe but it'squite strong in America, right.
But I think places like Americaare well positioned and got
(44:07):
some excellent, very highquality people in public health.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Probably for me, it's better to spend my time in
transition countries wherepeople are really looking for
new ideas, you know well, yeah,I'm excited to follow along your
journey and kind of the workthat you're going to do in latin
america and then specificallysri lanka, since, uh- I was born
there and have, uh, I think myheart is still kind of connected
(44:32):
to that country, so I I willfor sure be following your
journey, glenn, and where canpeople maybe keep in touch with
you and read more about the workthat you're doing?
Speaker 1 (44:44):
well, everything's online these days, really isn't
it professionally?
So I mean, I have a LinkedInaccount and I have a
ResearchGate account.
I don't have a personal account.
I never really wanted to have apersonal account, like some
people really wanted to have apersonal account, as some people
do.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
But people can Google my name, I guess, online, or
look at my LinkedIn or look atmy research case.
Yeah, we'll link all of that up.
Thank you so much, glenn.
This is such a wonderful chat.
For me just to learn about thejourney that you've taken, and
I've certainly taken away lotsof personal reflections from
this as well.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Well, thank you very much for the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Hey, I hope you enjoyed that episode and if you
want to get the links orinformation mentioned in today's
episode, you can head over tophspotorg slash podcast and
we'll have everything there foryou.
And before you go go, I want totell you about the public
health career club.
So if you've been looking for aplace to connect and build
(45:42):
meaningful relationships withother public health
professionals from all aroundthe world, you should join us in
the public health career club.
We launched the club with thevision of becoming the number
one hangout spot dedicated tobuilding and growing your dream
public health career.
And in addition to being ableto connect and build those
(46:03):
meaningful relationships withother public health
professionals, the club alsooffers other great resources for
your career growth and success,like mindset coaching, job
preparation clinics and careergrowth strategy sessions in the
form of trainings and talks, alldelivered by experts and
inspiring individuals in theseareas.
So if you want to learn more orwant to join the club, you can
(46:25):
visit our page at phspotorgslash club and we'll have all
the information there.
We'll have all the informationthere and you know, as a space
that's being intentionallycurated to bring together
like-minded public healthprofessionals who are not only
there to push themselves tobecome the best versions of
themselves, but also each other.
And with that I can't wait tosee how this is going to have a
(46:51):
ripple effect in the world, aswe all work together to better
the health of our populationsand just have immense impact in
the world.
And I hope you'll be joining usin the Public Health Career
Club.
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