New CEO of MMWEC Discusses Need for New Generation in Region, Benefits of Energy Storage for Members
October 27, 2025 • 27 mins
In the latest episode of Public Power Now, Tom Barry, the new CEO and Secretary of the Massachusetts Municipal Wholesale Electric Company, discusses the need for new generation in New England. He also details how MMWEC’s member utilities have benefited from energy storage projects. MMWEC is the joint action agency for public power in Massachusetts.
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Episode Transcript
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Paul Ciampoli (00:09):
Welcome to the latest episode of Public Power
Now.
I'm Paul Ciampoli, APPA's newsdirector.
Our guest in this episode isTom Barry, CEO and Secretary of
the Massachusetts MunicipalWholesale Electric Company,
which is a joint action agency.
In September, MMWEC announcedthat after nearly 30 years of
service to MMWEC, RonaldDeCurzio was retiring as CEO and
Secretary for the JAA.
(00:30):
At the same time, the MMWECBoard of Directors announced Tom
as a successor for DeCurzio.
Prior to taking on his newrole, Tom served as a director
of energy markets for MMWEC.
Tom, thanks for joining us.
Thanks, Paul.
I'm really excited to be here.
Interesting.
So Tom, just get a gun fromCentral Star.
Want to give you theopportunity to talk about, you
(00:50):
know, what your immediatepriorities have been since
becoming CEO and Secretary ofMMWEC.
Tom Barry (00:55):
Sure.
Well, before I jump into that,let me let me just say this that
very excited about this newopportunity I have here.
I'm excited mainly because Ibelieve in the mission that
we're we're working towards.
I believe the model that wehave is is is the right model
for uh public power is isabsolutely paramount for our
system.
And I believe in the peoplethat uh I work with.
(01:16):
You know, we've inherited, I'veinherited uh the best of the
best, and my future success isreally directly tied to their
success.
And so I'm I'm fortunate inthat regard.
But as for for what's what myshort-term or immediate term
plans are, you know, there's alot to do, but you certain
certainly have to prioritizecertain things.
You know, taking over for Ron,who was the CEO for 18 some odd
(01:41):
years is a big undertaking and abig change for MMWEC, and I'm
humbled by the newresponsibility, but also
excited, as I said.
You know, some of the thingsthat are of great importance to
me are that there's a seamlesstransition for the entities, the
municipalities that we serve.
You know, we do a lot, and I'llget into that in just a bit,
uh, for those municipalities.
And it's it's of greatimportance that we don't miss a
(02:03):
beat in that effort.
And so that's uh uh somethingI'm very focused on.
On top of that, we just need tocontinue to build and improve
on our value statement uh alongthe lines of those different
services that we provide.
We do great things, and and weneed to continue to do those
great things.
And maybe more important thandoing that is we need to do a
little better job than we havein the past when it comes to
(02:25):
telling our story andcommunicating with the the
members that we work with andand you know, potential future
members that we work with, whatwe're all about, what we stand
for, how we do things, why we dothings, how our business is
structured.
We haven't done a fantastic jobon that front.
And one of my short-term goals,and it's been kind of my goal
as director of energy marketsbefore I moved into this new
(02:48):
role, was to get out uh and getface-to-face with people, to be
on the opposite side of thetable uh of the general managers
that we work with, and and andand the general managers we
don't necessarily work withtoday, and and share with them
our mission, our model, and andthe people that I alluded to
earlier before.
So that's uh of greatimportance in the short term.
And then the other thing that Ireally wanted to focus on is uh
(03:13):
this isn't a major undertaking,but a little bit of a tweaking.
One of my goals is to kind ofchange the internal culture a
little bit.
Uh I I want to find a way tohave people feel more empowered
to feel as if they can have anentrepreneurial spirit.
And it's kind of funny to thinkof an entrepreneurial spirit
within a municipality, but Iwant each and every employee in
(03:35):
this company to be thinkingabout new and exciting ways to
do things, and not just to be itto be rote and how they've
always done it, but to to takeownership of the business, um,
to look for new and excitingways to improve.
And maybe along those lines,and and maybe more important, is
I want people to feelcomfortable to reach out of
(03:57):
their traditional comfort zone.
And you know, I think we'vefallen a little bit over the
years into people working withinsilos.
Uh I want accounting workingclosely with legislative and
regulatory.
I want legislative andregulatory working closely with
our analysts in the power supplygroup.
And all of those, you know,subsets need to work together.
(04:18):
And so one of my goals is to,you know, it's it's it's a bit
of a culture shift that uhprovides opportunities for the
individual to be a bigger partof the of the whole.
So those are some of mypriorities.
Paul Ciampoli (04:31):
So with respect to that last point that you
made, I would I would assumethat uh you've you've you've uh
communicated that with your withyour team there at this point.
Tom Barry (04:40):
Whether formally formally my first official day
was September 24th, and on themorning of September 24th, I
pulled the entire company intomy office.
We were we were like sardines,it was a little snug, but I
purposely did it that way asopposed to going into the
boardroom.
And we had a little town hall,and that was the priority.
(05:01):
That town hall, the priority ofthat discussion was just what I
alluded to a bit here, whichwas uh a little shift in
culture, a little, how do I sayit, uh maybe taking a feeling
comfortable taking a little morerisk.
Uh I thought in the past peoplewere a little too worried about
what if they wanted to dosomething, how it would be
perceived.
(05:21):
And I wanted to get away fromwhether or not it would be
perceived negatively orcritiqued.
I wanted people to to to branchout a little bit.
And so I called the entirecompany into the the uh into my
office, and we talked about thatfor quite some time.
And uh I I'd like to think itwas a productive time spent.
Paul Ciampoli (05:38):
Yeah, makes sense.
And so just uh shifting gears alittle bit, um, wanted to give
you the opportunity to to offeran overview of the services and
resources that MMWEC offers toits member utilities.
Tom Barry (05:49):
Yeah, great question, but really tough question in
that we do so much.
You know, I don't know how longwe have on this podcast, but we
offer so many differentservices uh as a joint action
agency in Mass as the jointaction agency in Massachusetts
that that it may take some time,but there's the obvious ones we
need to discuss.
And and the the first andforemost is power supply.
(06:11):
You know, the the MLPs that wework with and work closely with,
80% of their costs uh are arebased on on energy costs.
And so it's of high priorityfor them, so it has to be of
high priority for us.
So we do many, many thingsaround power supply, and that
goes from the the day of youknow, day ahead bidding in ISO
(06:34):
New England to the longer-termhedging.
I mean, it's really uh uh thewe have to that's the one ball
we we certainly we can't dropany balls, but that's uh of
great importance.
And and our services as a jointaction agency on the power
supply front are are paramount.
And we've made lots of changeson that front just within the
two years I've been here.
We've we've really restructuredhow we go about doing that.
(06:56):
I'll get into it in just aminute about how we we have uh
resource development.
But on the hedging side, we'verestructured it and made it more
disciplined, and we've kind ofincorporated more of a dollar
cost averaging approach than wehad in the past, in that every
single month, the 15th of themonth, maybe not always every
month because the 15th flaws onthe Saturday, but the 15th of
(07:17):
every month, we go out, we takea small bite of the apple for
each and every one of our MLPsthat we represent.
And what's great about that isthat we've got a wide range of
municipalities within oursystem, some really big, some
really, really small.
And as a joint action agency,we have this ability to go out
and do aggregated purchasing forthe whole.
(07:38):
And so those really smallmunicipalities within our group
are able to have the buyingpower of the really larger
municipalities in our group.
And so it's it's really speaksto what joint action agency is
all about.
So power supply is of one ofour biggest services.
We obviously have other areasthat are our primary focuses as
well.
Resource development.
(07:59):
I'd argue that we don't have,you know, we are structured in a
way that uh we're exceptionalon that front.
And but in order to beexceptional on that front, it
takes people.
And we've got an engineeringstaff and a resource development
staff uh headed up by JasonViadero, that is uh just
outstanding.
So that's one of the services.
We also have, based on ourcharter and the way we're
(08:21):
structured, we have uniquefinancing abilities that allow
us to go on behalf of ourmembers and potential other
participants into new generationopportunities and our ability
to raise capital and thingsaround that is unique and uh of
great importance to our members.
You know, uh we can get intothis in just a little bit.
(08:43):
Going forward, as part of mylonger-term goals, and we can
talk about this, is you know,this area, the New England area,
is in need of new generation ormore generation down the road.
And, you know, we'restructured, we're the entity
best structured to help peopleon that front.
So, you know, there's powersupply, there's resource
development, there's financingcapabilities.
(09:05):
We also have a strong footprintin energy efficiency run by Zoe
Eckert within within thiscompany, and that has been a
great part of our business andor an integral part of our
business that I'll get to injust a bit.
And then on the regulatory uhand legislative services, we've
got Kate Roy, who is fantasticat what she does.
And um, you know, our membersare very dependent on the latest
(09:29):
updates uh of what's going onon many different fronts.
And not only do they wantupdates, they want
representation, and we do atremendous job on that front.
And then all of that wouldnever be possible if I weren't
to briefly speak about all theback office support.
And that back office supportranges from communications to
(09:51):
accounting services toforecasting, load forecasting,
and you know, you couldn't dorisk management if you didn't
have a strong forecasting group.
And you couldn't do any ofthose things if you didn't have
uh the back office support tomake them thrive the way they
they do.
So I don't know, that was a bitof a long-winded answer to some
of the services we had, but uhquite frankly, I could go on for
(10:13):
another 15 minutes and getdeeper into the details, but I
don't know if we have the timeon that front.
But those are the new ones.
Paul Ciampoli (10:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no, Tom, that's that'sgreat.
And then no time limit.
So so feel free to continue ifyou want to further elaborate on
what we just discussed or talkabout other areas as well.
Tom Barry (10:29):
Well, uh, I think that's good for now, but uh I
think we were had intentions ofmaybe talking about connected
homes and energy storage downthe water.
So we can we can talk aboutthat when we get there.
Paul Ciampoli (10:38):
Yeah.
Uh one quick uh follow-upquestion before you come tapping
your experience as uh directorof energy markets there.
So I mean, just just out ofcuriosity, with respect to ISO
New England, I mean I wouldn't Iwould expect that I get let me
let me reframe what my thoughtis with respect to ISO New
England, any challenges in termsof kind of you know making sure
you guys are on top of rulechanges, that type of thing, and
(11:00):
communicating that to yourmembers?
Tom Barry (11:02):
Well, you know, I don't answer that.
There's the there's challengesonly because it's so complex.
Paul Ciampoli (11:07):
Right.
Tom Barry (11:08):
And if we didn't have the some of the staff that are,
you know, make it theirbusiness to understand those
complexities, I'd argue, betterthan anyone else, we wouldn't be
successful in what we do.
You know, uh the the the ICE inNew England system is is a
fantastic system, but a complexsystem.
Uh and it really requires anexpertise in that field.
(11:28):
And so we have, you know, wehave an analyst group that, you
know, that analyst group ishourly dealing with ICE in New
England, but we also havelonger-term people within the
company that are constantlymonitoring the the changes and
and how protocol is set up, isput together.
So yes, there's challenges inthat it's a complex system, but
we've got uh really complexpeople able to tackle that
(11:54):
complexity, if that makes anysense.
Paul Ciampoli (11:55):
Oh yeah, definitely.
So uh Tom, I just wanted totalk about, and you mentioned
Connected Homes, which is aresidential demand response
program launched in 2020.
And it's offered throughMMWEC's electrification and
decarbonization program calledNext Year.
And we've actually uh done avery thorough job in terms of
covering uh news developments asa relations program in our
newsletter.
So uh against that backdrop, Iwanted to ask if you could
(12:17):
further describe Connected Homesand detail how MMWEC member
utilities benefit fromparticipating in the program.
Tom Barry (12:24):
Yeah, super question.
I mean, it really is, and and Ididn't mean to downplay any of
the other parts of the businesswhen I spend so much time
talking about power supply, butyou know, our our connected
homes and Next Zero program areintegral parts of our business.
You know, we we work with 2,000different homes.
Uh within those 2,000 homes, wework with 30,000 uh three
(12:45):
thousand, excuse me, 3,000different devices.
Those devices uh range fromthermostats to EVs, EV chargers,
residential batteries, minisplits, hot water heaters, you
you name it.
But we've had great earlysuccess in that area, uh, partly
because we've we've we'vecommitted to that area and
partly because we've got, as Imentioned, Joey Eckert, who is
(13:06):
uh a phenomenal project manageron that front.
But it it's it's you know, it'sa big part of our business.
We now uh are control and Iworry about using that word
control, but manage sevenmegawatts of of of peak load
through our connected homesprogram.
And and and that's reallyinteresting when you start
thinking about, and we'll getinto this in a little bit when
(13:28):
we potentially start talk aboutenergy storage, but our ability
to kind of manage those devicesto mitigate low, you know, peak
loads, especially when you knowtransmission and capacity
charges are are at the levelsthey have been of late, you
know, they're they're they'resubs they're substantial.
And so any chance we canmitigate those costs for for our
(13:50):
MLPs, we'd look to do that, andwe do it in many different
ways.
And connected homes is just oneof them.
But what I like aboutConnected, well, I like
Connected Homes on manydifferent fronts, but you know,
it's it's a very automatedsystem, but in the same breath,
it's it's it's a flexiblesystem.
So, you know, we're able fromLudlow, Massachusetts, to to
(14:11):
manage how people are, you know,managing or you utilizing their
thermostat, but that's not tosay that they don't have
optionality that goes along withthose efforts.
There's much optionality builtinto our uh Connected Homes
program that that allows theindividual to not lose control
of what they're wanting withintheir own home.
And I really think that's ofgreat importance, especially if
(14:34):
we want this aspect of thebusiness to thrive.
We've got to continue to uhprovide users with that
optionality.
And the other thing that kindof goes uh un uh unrewarded or
unnoticed is connected homes isa tremendous uh brand
recognition.
You know, we it our abilitiesto speak with MLPs, and we have
(14:57):
quite a few MLPs that are nottraditional MMWEC members that
utilize our Connected Homesprogram because it is just that
good.
You know, that ability to havethose connect those
conversations on the connectedhome fronts allow us to have
other conversations in otheraspects of the business going
back to all those differentservices that we provide.
(15:17):
So it's really been a great, Idon't know, it can be so far as
go so far as to say a foot inthe door.
But it's it's it's it'scertainly been uh uh well
received with the many differentgeneral managers and and
stakeholders that that we wetalk with.
So it's a big part of ourbusiness.
Paul Ciampoli (15:35):
And so you mentioned earlier energy
storage, and yeah, as you know,MMWEC has announced a number of
energy storage agreementsinvolving its member utilities
and the company Light ShiftEnergy.
So I want to give you theopportunity to tell our
listeners about some of theseenergy storage projects and um
do you tell how those MMWECmember utilities will benefit
from the use of energy storage?
Tom Barry (15:55):
Yeah, sure, of course.
Great question.
I am have been completelyamazed by the early results that
we've had on this front.
And uh large credit goes toJason Girardero, who I mentioned
earlier before.
But you know, these are allshared savings contracts, uh,
some already in place and andsome uh signed, but not, you
know, um not operating quiteyet.
(16:16):
But these are all shared savingcontracts with a trusted
partner in Lightshift.
We have a long-standingrelationship with Lightshift
going back many, many years.
We've found that uh theirreputation and their backing of
their reputation makes them oneof the leaders in that industry,
and and that's our hope is tocontinue to work with with
people like like LightShift.
Uh, we've had great success onthat front.
(16:38):
I mean, just in the past yearalone, we've already put 17
megawatts in place.
And and and and that those 17megawatts in just that one year
period that I mentioned havehave amounted to about one point
fill $1.5 million in avoidedcost savings on transmission of
transmission avoided costs andcapacity avoided costs.
(16:59):
So we're really excited uhabout what we've done to date,
but we're even more excitedabout the interest that that
that's that's coming through thedoor recently.
You know, we are right now,just within the last couple
months, signed contracts foranother 13 megawatts uh of
energy storage in in the area.
Um and that's just kind of thetip of the iceberg in in my
(17:22):
mind.
Uh I'm a big proponent ofenergy storage uh projects for
many different regions, ordifferent reasons, excuse me.
Um and so we're we're having alot of interest, we're fielding
lots of calls, and we we're veryexcited about the the
partnership we have withLightShift, and we're very
excited about you know uh thisearly success.
(17:43):
And again, back to this wholenotion of brand recognition and
and and maybe even going back tosomething I should have got to
before anything else when Italked about you know immediate
priorities.
What we do is all about trust.
And we need to have the trustof the the MLPs and their staff
going forward.
And so the trust on powersupply, trust on connected
(18:06):
homes, trust on energy storageprojects.
But what's really interesting,and I and and you know, you've
you've got an an educatedaudience on this front, but you
know, in New England, you know,transmission charges and and and
capacity charges, as Imentioned earlier, are quite
expensive.
So anytime we can capture thepeak to avoid those costs, it's
(18:26):
a great, great savings.
I'm very pleased uh to be partof uh the our analyst group,
which is uh a phenomenal groupof individuals that has a 92%
success success rate um goingback to capturing peaks, um,
going back uh uh for quite sometime, but in just since 2017,
(18:48):
that success rate of 92% hasamounted to $28 million in
avoided cost for the peoplewe're lucky to work for work
with.
And so, you know, that'stangible dollars.
Um, these systems are of uh ofgreat savings to the individual
MLPs, and it makes sense thatthere's more and more interest.
So the exciting part of ourbusiness.
(19:09):
That was maybe a long-winded uhanswer to your question.
Paul Ciampoli (19:13):
No, not at all.
And and just just a quickfollow-up.
So I mean, I guess if you'reanother JAA in a different part
of the country and and perhapsyour members are starting to
express interest in energystorage, but they haven't gone
down as far as the road goes interms of what you guys have been
doing, uh it it it seems likeit goes without saying that it
there's a there's a a host ofbenefits that would flow from
(19:34):
working from a trusted partnerlike LightShift Energy.
Tom Barry (19:38):
Yep.
You know, LightShift with, youknow, in in in unison with your
your local joint action agency,uh, I think that's the recipe
for success.
Paul Ciampoli (19:47):
Okay.
And so Tom, just to wrap up,uh, one who gave you the
opportunity to to talk aboutyour long-term goals for MMWEC.
Tom Barry (19:53):
Yeah, well, thanks for the opportunity uh to to to
to speak to that point.
You know, on top of some ofthose more immediate uh not
concerns, but but uh focuses,you know, my focus in the next
five to to 12 years, and and Ihope to be lucky enough to stick
around for that long, uh isreally twofold.
Uh well, you know, I've alreadytalked about where you know we
(20:15):
want to build, where we want tobuild on, which is, you know, I
I spoke about seeing theseamless transition and
defending our value statementand expanding the the footprint
within the within the state weuh we serve.
But on the longer term, youknow, I'd like to explore
expanding our footprint intomore non-traditional areas.
And when I say that, you know,with there are 40 municipalities
(20:37):
within the state ofMassachusetts.
And I'd like to pursue over thecourse of those those years
I've already mentioned, uh,looking into uh other loads
within the state that aretraditional IIU loads.
I feel very strongly, and Imentioned this when I when I
talked about how why I'm excitedabout what I'm doing.
You know, I believe that publicpower is the right model.
(20:59):
I think I believe we have thebetter uh of models when it
comes to supplying power, and itit ranges from, you know,
considerably uh cheaper rates tolocal control to reliability,
all those things.
So for me, it's frankly hard tounderstand why there isn't more
expansion of public power inthe state of Massachusetts and
(21:22):
and in other states.
The other big goal I have isthat, and I mentioned this
briefly when we started talkingin the beginning, you know, New
England is unique.
It's it's kind of its its ownpeninsula, many other regions.
I spent a lot of time in theMidwest.
And you know, you look atareas like ECAR or PJM or my,
well, I shouldn't say ECARanymore, MISO and PJM, they all
(21:45):
have the luxury of betterimportation abilities.
You know, they can look to thenorth, they can look to the
south, they can look to east, towest.
You know, we in in New Englanddon't have that fl as much of
that flexibility.
You know, there's not a wholeheck of a lot that makes finds
its way through uh New York.
We've been fortunate in thepast to have lots and lots of
(22:07):
power coming uh down comingsouth from from Canada, and
we'll continue to have that, butthat has been uh less available
than it has in the past.
So I'm a big advocate orproponent for diversity, uh, you
know, energy dependent uhindependence, excuse me, energy
independence is what I wastrying to get out there.
And so I want to be part ofbringing more generation into
(22:29):
the region.
We've done tremendous work onthe um intermittent generation
in the past couple of years, andnot to take anything away from
that.
It's of great, greatimportance.
All the new intermittentgeneration, the environmentally
conscious generation that we'vebrought on, and I'm excited
about that.
But I do think we need, notthat I think, I'd like to see
(22:50):
more natural gas generation inthe region.
And then in the longer, in thelong, really long term, I'd like
to be part of exploring nucleargeneration in the region.
You know, I it's one of thosethings that, you know, it it
wouldn't if if we started todaydown that road, it wouldn't be
for a very long time before thefirst actual megawatt of
(23:11):
generation would would comeonline.
But we've got to start today,uh, and I want to be part of
that.
And so those are some of thethings that that I'm really
excited about.
But I'm really excited morethan anything to work with the
staff that I work with.
We've got amazing people hereat MMWEC all doing great things
uh for a great cause.
And those are the things thatare on my mind.
Paul Ciampoli (23:32):
A quick follow-up question, if we could.
So uh one thought that croppedup in my mind as you talked
about baseload generation and uhis uh any if could you is do
you have any sense in terms ofuh the interest of uh potential
data center companies cominginto that region?
Tom Barry (23:50):
It's on everyone's mind.
Yeah.
Um and you know, you you get ayou get a wide spectrum of of
thoughts on that front.
You know, some some people willargue that it's not coming
quickly because it because ofthe alternatives, you know, more
uh easier site availability,potentially cheaper rates down
(24:11):
in the southern economies.
Uh-huh.
There's many, many factors thatthat lead some people to think
that that may not be the case inNew England.
I tend to disagree.
Uh I think that it's coming.
I I think I'd argue that wehave one of the benefits we have
going for us in New England isthe uh really tremendously uh
(24:33):
educated uh workforce.
Uh and so, you know, I don'tneed to tell anyone that's l
potentially listening to thispodcast that, you know, we in
Massachusetts have some of thethe the greatest schools in the
country.
And so uh I I think the the thepotential's there.
I don't foresee in the nearfuture these massive, massive
facilities that that that peopleare are are greatly talking
(24:55):
about, but that's not to saythat there's not the potential
for more smaller ones comingdown the pipe.
Paul Ciampoli (25:02):
And so uh I'm excited about that.
In terms of gas pipelinecapacity, any concerns?
Tom Barry (25:07):
Well, that's that's a tremendous question.
You know, for us to havesuccess on the natural gas
generation, um, we have to haveuh success on natural gas
capacity.
We are the uh, you know, themany when people people talk
about um natural gas quiteoften, they're talking about
natural gas delivered at theHenry Hub down in Louisiana.
We are a very long ways awayfrom Henry Hub, Louisiana.
(25:31):
We are the the last stop or oneof the last stops on the train.
We've got, and that was veryclear this winter, you know, we
saw uh not only were gas prices,the the basis differential
between uh Henry Hub and theMassachusetts area blew out, and
not only was it uh uh the thethe basis market blowing out,
(25:51):
but the deliverability, thevolume deliverability went down
considerably.
I don't know if peoplerecognize this, but not only you
know, it wasn't only cold inNew England, it was cold in the
Midwest this past winter, and itwas cold in the southeast.
So a lot of that gas thattraditionally finds its way uh
all the way up to us wasdiverted this past this past
winter.
(26:12):
So you you asked the themillion-dollar question.
100% we need to have uh seriousconversations about expanding
our the natural gas uh pipelinecapacity to feed that new
baseload generation that I thinkthis region, and I'll go so far
as to say is starving for.
We need to we need to make bigstrides on energy uh
(26:33):
independence.
And uh, you know, not to go toofar off topic, uh I'm pretty
excited uh of late of what I'veseen from you know uh the
legislative group and theexecutive uh branch of uh of the
state.
And and I I see a recognitionof that that really makes me
excited about what's possible inthe future.
Paul Ciampoli (26:51):
I would love to have you back.
Perhaps around this time nextyear, we could revisit some of
these topics and other topics aswell.
Tom Barry (26:58):
I'd love to do that, and thank you so much for the
opportunity.
I've really enjoyed theconversation.
Paul Ciampoli (27:04):
Thanks for listening to this episode of
Public Power Now, which wasproduced by Julio Guerrero,
graphic and digital designerAPPA.
I'm Paul Ciampoli, and we'll beback next week with more from
the world of public power.
Welcome to the latest episode of Public Power
Now.
I'm Paul Ciampoli, APPA's newsdirector.
Our guest in this episode isTom Barry, CEO and Secretary of
the Massachusetts MunicipalWholesale Electric Company,
which is a joint action agency.
In September, MMWEC announcedthat after nearly 30 years of
service to MMWEC, RonaldDeCurzio was retiring as CEO and
Secretary for the JAA.
(00:30):
At the same time, the MMWECBoard of Directors announced Tom
as a successor for DeCurzio.
Prior to taking on his newrole, Tom served as a director
of energy markets for MMWEC.
Tom, thanks for joining us.
Thanks, Paul.
I'm really excited to be here.
Interesting.
So Tom, just get a gun fromCentral Star.
Want to give you theopportunity to talk about, you
(00:50):
know, what your immediatepriorities have been since
becoming CEO and Secretary ofMMWEC.
Tom Barry (00:55):
Sure.
Well, before I jump into that,let me let me just say this that
very excited about this newopportunity I have here.
I'm excited mainly because Ibelieve in the mission that
we're we're working towards.
I believe the model that wehave is is is the right model
for uh public power is isabsolutely paramount for our
system.
And I believe in the peoplethat uh I work with.
(01:16):
You know, we've inherited, I'veinherited uh the best of the
best, and my future success isreally directly tied to their
success.
And so I'm I'm fortunate inthat regard.
But as for for what's what myshort-term or immediate term
plans are, you know, there's alot to do, but you certain
certainly have to prioritizecertain things.
You know, taking over for Ron,who was the CEO for 18 some odd
(01:41):
years is a big undertaking and abig change for MMWEC, and I'm
humbled by the newresponsibility, but also
excited, as I said.
You know, some of the thingsthat are of great importance to
me are that there's a seamlesstransition for the entities, the
municipalities that we serve.
You know, we do a lot, and I'llget into that in just a bit,
uh, for those municipalities.
And it's it's of greatimportance that we don't miss a
(02:03):
beat in that effort.
And so that's uh uh somethingI'm very focused on.
On top of that, we just need tocontinue to build and improve
on our value statement uh alongthe lines of those different
services that we provide.
We do great things, and and weneed to continue to do those
great things.
And maybe more important thandoing that is we need to do a
little better job than we havein the past when it comes to
(02:25):
telling our story andcommunicating with the the
members that we work with andand you know, potential future
members that we work with, whatwe're all about, what we stand
for, how we do things, why we dothings, how our business is
structured.
We haven't done a fantastic jobon that front.
And one of my short-term goals,and it's been kind of my goal
as director of energy marketsbefore I moved into this new
(02:48):
role, was to get out uh and getface-to-face with people, to be
on the opposite side of thetable uh of the general managers
that we work with, and and andand the general managers we
don't necessarily work withtoday, and and share with them
our mission, our model, and andthe people that I alluded to
earlier before.
So that's uh of greatimportance in the short term.
And then the other thing that Ireally wanted to focus on is uh
(03:13):
this isn't a major undertaking,but a little bit of a tweaking.
One of my goals is to kind ofchange the internal culture a
little bit.
Uh I I want to find a way tohave people feel more empowered
to feel as if they can have anentrepreneurial spirit.
And it's kind of funny to thinkof an entrepreneurial spirit
within a municipality, but Iwant each and every employee in
(03:35):
this company to be thinkingabout new and exciting ways to
do things, and not just to be itto be rote and how they've
always done it, but to to takeownership of the business, um,
to look for new and excitingways to improve.
And maybe along those lines,and and maybe more important, is
I want people to feelcomfortable to reach out of
(03:57):
their traditional comfort zone.
And you know, I think we'vefallen a little bit over the
years into people working withinsilos.
Uh I want accounting workingclosely with legislative and
regulatory.
I want legislative andregulatory working closely with
our analysts in the power supplygroup.
And all of those, you know,subsets need to work together.
(04:18):
And so one of my goals is to,you know, it's it's it's a bit
of a culture shift that uhprovides opportunities for the
individual to be a bigger partof the of the whole.
So those are some of mypriorities.
Paul Ciampoli (04:31):
So with respect to that last point that you
made, I would I would assumethat uh you've you've you've uh
communicated that with your withyour team there at this point.
Tom Barry (04:40):
Whether formally formally my first official day
was September 24th, and on themorning of September 24th, I
pulled the entire company intomy office.
We were we were like sardines,it was a little snug, but I
purposely did it that way asopposed to going into the
boardroom.
And we had a little town hall,and that was the priority.
(05:01):
That town hall, the priority ofthat discussion was just what I
alluded to a bit here, whichwas uh a little shift in
culture, a little, how do I sayit, uh maybe taking a feeling
comfortable taking a little morerisk.
Uh I thought in the past peoplewere a little too worried about
what if they wanted to dosomething, how it would be
perceived.
(05:21):
And I wanted to get away fromwhether or not it would be
perceived negatively orcritiqued.
I wanted people to to to branchout a little bit.
And so I called the entirecompany into the the uh into my
office, and we talked about thatfor quite some time.
And uh I I'd like to think itwas a productive time spent.
Paul Ciampoli (05:38):
Yeah, makes sense.
And so just uh shifting gears alittle bit, um, wanted to give
you the opportunity to to offeran overview of the services and
resources that MMWEC offers toits member utilities.
Tom Barry (05:49):
Yeah, great question, but really tough question in
that we do so much.
You know, I don't know how longwe have on this podcast, but we
offer so many differentservices uh as a joint action
agency in Mass as the jointaction agency in Massachusetts
that that it may take some time,but there's the obvious ones we
need to discuss.
And and the the first andforemost is power supply.
(06:11):
You know, the the MLPs that wework with and work closely with,
80% of their costs uh are arebased on on energy costs.
And so it's of high priorityfor them, so it has to be of
high priority for us.
So we do many, many thingsaround power supply, and that
goes from the the day of youknow, day ahead bidding in ISO
(06:34):
New England to the longer-termhedging.
I mean, it's really uh uh thewe have to that's the one ball
we we certainly we can't dropany balls, but that's uh of
great importance.
And and our services as a jointaction agency on the power
supply front are are paramount.
And we've made lots of changeson that front just within the
two years I've been here.
We've we've really restructuredhow we go about doing that.
(06:56):
I'll get into it in just aminute about how we we have uh
resource development.
But on the hedging side, we'verestructured it and made it more
disciplined, and we've kind ofincorporated more of a dollar
cost averaging approach than wehad in the past, in that every
single month, the 15th of themonth, maybe not always every
month because the 15th flaws onthe Saturday, but the 15th of
(07:17):
every month, we go out, we takea small bite of the apple for
each and every one of our MLPsthat we represent.
And what's great about that isthat we've got a wide range of
municipalities within oursystem, some really big, some
really, really small.
And as a joint action agency,we have this ability to go out
and do aggregated purchasing forthe whole.
(07:38):
And so those really smallmunicipalities within our group
are able to have the buyingpower of the really larger
municipalities in our group.
And so it's it's really speaksto what joint action agency is
all about.
So power supply is of one ofour biggest services.
We obviously have other areasthat are our primary focuses as
well.
Resource development.
(07:59):
I'd argue that we don't have,you know, we are structured in a
way that uh we're exceptionalon that front.
And but in order to beexceptional on that front, it
takes people.
And we've got an engineeringstaff and a resource development
staff uh headed up by JasonViadero, that is uh just
outstanding.
So that's one of the services.
We also have, based on ourcharter and the way we're
(08:21):
structured, we have uniquefinancing abilities that allow
us to go on behalf of ourmembers and potential other
participants into new generationopportunities and our ability
to raise capital and thingsaround that is unique and uh of
great importance to our members.
You know, uh we can get intothis in just a little bit.
(08:43):
Going forward, as part of mylonger-term goals, and we can
talk about this, is you know,this area, the New England area,
is in need of new generation ormore generation down the road.
And, you know, we'restructured, we're the entity
best structured to help peopleon that front.
So, you know, there's powersupply, there's resource
development, there's financingcapabilities.
(09:05):
We also have a strong footprintin energy efficiency run by Zoe
Eckert within within thiscompany, and that has been a
great part of our business andor an integral part of our
business that I'll get to injust a bit.
And then on the regulatory uhand legislative services, we've
got Kate Roy, who is fantasticat what she does.
And um, you know, our membersare very dependent on the latest
(09:29):
updates uh of what's going onon many different fronts.
And not only do they wantupdates, they want
representation, and we do atremendous job on that front.
And then all of that wouldnever be possible if I weren't
to briefly speak about all theback office support.
And that back office supportranges from communications to
(09:51):
accounting services toforecasting, load forecasting,
and you know, you couldn't dorisk management if you didn't
have a strong forecasting group.
And you couldn't do any ofthose things if you didn't have
uh the back office support tomake them thrive the way they
they do.
So I don't know, that was a bitof a long-winded answer to some
of the services we had, but uhquite frankly, I could go on for
(10:13):
another 15 minutes and getdeeper into the details, but I
don't know if we have the timeon that front.
But those are the new ones.
Paul Ciampoli (10:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no, Tom, that's that'sgreat.
And then no time limit.
So so feel free to continue ifyou want to further elaborate on
what we just discussed or talkabout other areas as well.
Tom Barry (10:29):
Well, uh, I think that's good for now, but uh I
think we were had intentions ofmaybe talking about connected
homes and energy storage downthe water.
So we can we can talk aboutthat when we get there.
Paul Ciampoli (10:38):
Yeah.
Uh one quick uh follow-upquestion before you come tapping
your experience as uh directorof energy markets there.
So I mean, just just out ofcuriosity, with respect to ISO
New England, I mean I wouldn't Iwould expect that I get let me
let me reframe what my thoughtis with respect to ISO New
England, any challenges in termsof kind of you know making sure
you guys are on top of rulechanges, that type of thing, and
(11:00):
communicating that to yourmembers?
Tom Barry (11:02):
Well, you know, I don't answer that.
There's the there's challengesonly because it's so complex.
Paul Ciampoli (11:07):
Right.
Tom Barry (11:08):
And if we didn't have the some of the staff that are,
you know, make it theirbusiness to understand those
complexities, I'd argue, betterthan anyone else, we wouldn't be
successful in what we do.
You know, uh the the the ICE inNew England system is is a
fantastic system, but a complexsystem.
Uh and it really requires anexpertise in that field.
(11:28):
And so we have, you know, wehave an analyst group that, you
know, that analyst group ishourly dealing with ICE in New
England, but we also havelonger-term people within the
company that are constantlymonitoring the the changes and
and how protocol is set up, isput together.
So yes, there's challenges inthat it's a complex system, but
we've got uh really complexpeople able to tackle that
(11:54):
complexity, if that makes anysense.
Paul Ciampoli (11:55):
Oh yeah, definitely.
So uh Tom, I just wanted totalk about, and you mentioned
Connected Homes, which is aresidential demand response
program launched in 2020.
And it's offered throughMMWEC's electrification and
decarbonization program calledNext Year.
And we've actually uh done avery thorough job in terms of
covering uh news developments asa relations program in our
newsletter.
So uh against that backdrop, Iwanted to ask if you could
(12:17):
further describe Connected Homesand detail how MMWEC member
utilities benefit fromparticipating in the program.
Tom Barry (12:24):
Yeah, super question.
I mean, it really is, and and Ididn't mean to downplay any of
the other parts of the businesswhen I spend so much time
talking about power supply, butyou know, our our connected
homes and Next Zero program areintegral parts of our business.
You know, we we work with 2,000different homes.
Uh within those 2,000 homes, wework with 30,000 uh three
(12:45):
thousand, excuse me, 3,000different devices.
Those devices uh range fromthermostats to EVs, EV chargers,
residential batteries, minisplits, hot water heaters, you
you name it.
But we've had great earlysuccess in that area, uh, partly
because we've we've we'vecommitted to that area and
partly because we've got, as Imentioned, Joey Eckert, who is
(13:06):
uh a phenomenal project manageron that front.
But it it's it's you know, it'sa big part of our business.
We now uh are control and Iworry about using that word
control, but manage sevenmegawatts of of of peak load
through our connected homesprogram.
And and and that's reallyinteresting when you start
thinking about, and we'll getinto this in a little bit when
(13:28):
we potentially start talk aboutenergy storage, but our ability
to kind of manage those devicesto mitigate low, you know, peak
loads, especially when you knowtransmission and capacity
charges are are at the levelsthey have been of late, you
know, they're they're they'resubs they're substantial.
And so any chance we canmitigate those costs for for our
(13:50):
MLPs, we'd look to do that, andwe do it in many different
ways.
And connected homes is just oneof them.
But what I like aboutConnected, well, I like
Connected Homes on manydifferent fronts, but you know,
it's it's a very automatedsystem, but in the same breath,
it's it's it's a flexiblesystem.
So, you know, we're able fromLudlow, Massachusetts, to to
(14:11):
manage how people are, you know,managing or you utilizing their
thermostat, but that's not tosay that they don't have
optionality that goes along withthose efforts.
There's much optionality builtinto our uh Connected Homes
program that that allows theindividual to not lose control
of what they're wanting withintheir own home.
And I really think that's ofgreat importance, especially if
(14:34):
we want this aspect of thebusiness to thrive.
We've got to continue to uhprovide users with that
optionality.
And the other thing that kindof goes uh un uh unrewarded or
unnoticed is connected homes isa tremendous uh brand
recognition.
You know, we it our abilitiesto speak with MLPs, and we have
(14:57):
quite a few MLPs that are nottraditional MMWEC members that
utilize our Connected Homesprogram because it is just that
good.
You know, that ability to havethose connect those
conversations on the connectedhome fronts allow us to have
other conversations in otheraspects of the business going
back to all those differentservices that we provide.
(15:17):
So it's really been a great, Idon't know, it can be so far as
go so far as to say a foot inthe door.
But it's it's it's it'scertainly been uh uh well
received with the many differentgeneral managers and and
stakeholders that that we wetalk with.
So it's a big part of ourbusiness.
Paul Ciampoli (15:35):
And so you mentioned earlier energy
storage, and yeah, as you know,MMWEC has announced a number of
energy storage agreementsinvolving its member utilities
and the company Light ShiftEnergy.
So I want to give you theopportunity to tell our
listeners about some of theseenergy storage projects and um
do you tell how those MMWECmember utilities will benefit
from the use of energy storage?
Tom Barry (15:55):
Yeah, sure, of course.
Great question.
I am have been completelyamazed by the early results that
we've had on this front.
And uh large credit goes toJason Girardero, who I mentioned
earlier before.
But you know, these are allshared savings contracts, uh,
some already in place and andsome uh signed, but not, you
know, um not operating quiteyet.
(16:16):
But these are all shared savingcontracts with a trusted
partner in Lightshift.
We have a long-standingrelationship with Lightshift
going back many, many years.
We've found that uh theirreputation and their backing of
their reputation makes them oneof the leaders in that industry,
and and that's our hope is tocontinue to work with with
people like like LightShift.
Uh, we've had great success onthat front.
(16:38):
I mean, just in the past yearalone, we've already put 17
megawatts in place.
And and and and that those 17megawatts in just that one year
period that I mentioned havehave amounted to about one point
fill $1.5 million in avoidedcost savings on transmission of
transmission avoided costs andcapacity avoided costs.
(16:59):
So we're really excited uhabout what we've done to date,
but we're even more excitedabout the interest that that
that's that's coming through thedoor recently.
You know, we are right now,just within the last couple
months, signed contracts foranother 13 megawatts uh of
energy storage in in the area.
Um and that's just kind of thetip of the iceberg in in my
(17:22):
mind.
Uh I'm a big proponent ofenergy storage uh projects for
many different regions, ordifferent reasons, excuse me.
Um and so we're we're having alot of interest, we're fielding
lots of calls, and we we're veryexcited about the the
partnership we have withLightShift, and we're very
excited about you know uh thisearly success.
(17:43):
And again, back to this wholenotion of brand recognition and
and and maybe even going back tosomething I should have got to
before anything else when Italked about you know immediate
priorities.
What we do is all about trust.
And we need to have the trustof the the MLPs and their staff
going forward.
And so the trust on powersupply, trust on connected
(18:06):
homes, trust on energy storageprojects.
But what's really interesting,and I and and you know, you've
you've got an an educatedaudience on this front, but you
know, in New England, you know,transmission charges and and and
capacity charges, as Imentioned earlier, are quite
expensive.
So anytime we can capture thepeak to avoid those costs, it's
(18:26):
a great, great savings.
I'm very pleased uh to be partof uh the our analyst group,
which is uh a phenomenal groupof individuals that has a 92%
success success rate um goingback to capturing peaks, um,
going back uh uh for quite sometime, but in just since 2017,
(18:48):
that success rate of 92% hasamounted to $28 million in
avoided cost for the peoplewe're lucky to work for work
with.
And so, you know, that'stangible dollars.
Um, these systems are of uh ofgreat savings to the individual
MLPs, and it makes sense thatthere's more and more interest.
So the exciting part of ourbusiness.
(19:09):
That was maybe a long-winded uhanswer to your question.
Paul Ciampoli (19:13):
No, not at all.
And and just just a quickfollow-up.
So I mean, I guess if you'reanother JAA in a different part
of the country and and perhapsyour members are starting to
express interest in energystorage, but they haven't gone
down as far as the road goes interms of what you guys have been
doing, uh it it it seems likeit goes without saying that it
there's a there's a a host ofbenefits that would flow from
(19:34):
working from a trusted partnerlike LightShift Energy.
Tom Barry (19:38):
Yep.
You know, LightShift with, youknow, in in in unison with your
your local joint action agency,uh, I think that's the recipe
for success.
Paul Ciampoli (19:47):
Okay.
And so Tom, just to wrap up,uh, one who gave you the
opportunity to to talk aboutyour long-term goals for MMWEC.
Tom Barry (19:53):
Yeah, well, thanks for the opportunity uh to to to
to speak to that point.
You know, on top of some ofthose more immediate uh not
concerns, but but uh focuses,you know, my focus in the next
five to to 12 years, and and Ihope to be lucky enough to stick
around for that long, uh isreally twofold.
Uh well, you know, I've alreadytalked about where you know we
(20:15):
want to build, where we want tobuild on, which is, you know, I
I spoke about seeing theseamless transition and
defending our value statementand expanding the the footprint
within the within the state weuh we serve.
But on the longer term, youknow, I'd like to explore
expanding our footprint intomore non-traditional areas.
And when I say that, you know,with there are 40 municipalities
(20:37):
within the state ofMassachusetts.
And I'd like to pursue over thecourse of those those years
I've already mentioned, uh,looking into uh other loads
within the state that aretraditional IIU loads.
I feel very strongly, and Imentioned this when I when I
talked about how why I'm excitedabout what I'm doing.
You know, I believe that publicpower is the right model.
(20:59):
I think I believe we have thebetter uh of models when it
comes to supplying power, and itit ranges from, you know,
considerably uh cheaper rates tolocal control to reliability,
all those things.
So for me, it's frankly hard tounderstand why there isn't more
expansion of public power inthe state of Massachusetts and
(21:22):
and in other states.
The other big goal I have isthat, and I mentioned this
briefly when we started talkingin the beginning, you know, New
England is unique.
It's it's kind of its its ownpeninsula, many other regions.
I spent a lot of time in theMidwest.
And you know, you look atareas like ECAR or PJM or my,
well, I shouldn't say ECARanymore, MISO and PJM, they all
(21:45):
have the luxury of betterimportation abilities.
You know, they can look to thenorth, they can look to the
south, they can look to east, towest.
You know, we in in New Englanddon't have that fl as much of
that flexibility.
You know, there's not a wholeheck of a lot that makes finds
its way through uh New York.
We've been fortunate in thepast to have lots and lots of
(22:07):
power coming uh down comingsouth from from Canada, and
we'll continue to have that, butthat has been uh less available
than it has in the past.
So I'm a big advocate orproponent for diversity, uh, you
know, energy dependent uhindependence, excuse me, energy
independence is what I wastrying to get out there.
And so I want to be part ofbringing more generation into
(22:29):
the region.
We've done tremendous work onthe um intermittent generation
in the past couple of years, andnot to take anything away from
that.
It's of great, greatimportance.
All the new intermittentgeneration, the environmentally
conscious generation that we'vebrought on, and I'm excited
about that.
But I do think we need, notthat I think, I'd like to see
(22:50):
more natural gas generation inthe region.
And then in the longer, in thelong, really long term, I'd like
to be part of exploring nucleargeneration in the region.
You know, I it's one of thosethings that, you know, it it
wouldn't if if we started todaydown that road, it wouldn't be
for a very long time before thefirst actual megawatt of
(23:11):
generation would would comeonline.
But we've got to start today,uh, and I want to be part of
that.
And so those are some of thethings that that I'm really
excited about.
But I'm really excited morethan anything to work with the
staff that I work with.
We've got amazing people hereat MMWEC all doing great things
uh for a great cause.
And those are the things thatare on my mind.
Paul Ciampoli (23:32):
A quick follow-up question, if we could.
So uh one thought that croppedup in my mind as you talked
about baseload generation and uhis uh any if could you is do
you have any sense in terms ofuh the interest of uh potential
data center companies cominginto that region?
Tom Barry (23:50):
It's on everyone's mind.
Yeah.
Um and you know, you you get ayou get a wide spectrum of of
thoughts on that front.
You know, some some people willargue that it's not coming
quickly because it because ofthe alternatives, you know, more
uh easier site availability,potentially cheaper rates down
(24:11):
in the southern economies.
Uh-huh.
There's many, many factors thatthat lead some people to think
that that may not be the case inNew England.
I tend to disagree.
Uh I think that it's coming.
I I think I'd argue that wehave one of the benefits we have
going for us in New England isthe uh really tremendously uh
(24:33):
educated uh workforce.
Uh and so, you know, I don'tneed to tell anyone that's l
potentially listening to thispodcast that, you know, we in
Massachusetts have some of thethe the greatest schools in the
country.
And so uh I I think the the thepotential's there.
I don't foresee in the nearfuture these massive, massive
facilities that that that peopleare are are greatly talking
(24:55):
about, but that's not to saythat there's not the potential
for more smaller ones comingdown the pipe.
Paul Ciampoli (25:02):
And so uh I'm excited about that.
In terms of gas pipelinecapacity, any concerns?
Tom Barry (25:07):
Well, that's that's a tremendous question.
You know, for us to havesuccess on the natural gas
generation, um, we have to haveuh success on natural gas
capacity.
We are the uh, you know, themany when people people talk
about um natural gas quiteoften, they're talking about
natural gas delivered at theHenry Hub down in Louisiana.
We are a very long ways awayfrom Henry Hub, Louisiana.
(25:31):
We are the the last stop or oneof the last stops on the train.
We've got, and that was veryclear this winter, you know, we
saw uh not only were gas prices,the the basis differential
between uh Henry Hub and theMassachusetts area blew out, and
not only was it uh uh the thethe basis market blowing out,
(25:51):
but the deliverability, thevolume deliverability went down
considerably.
I don't know if peoplerecognize this, but not only you
know, it wasn't only cold inNew England, it was cold in the
Midwest this past winter, and itwas cold in the southeast.
So a lot of that gas thattraditionally finds its way uh
all the way up to us wasdiverted this past this past
winter.
(26:12):
So you you asked the themillion-dollar question.
100% we need to have uh seriousconversations about expanding
our the natural gas uh pipelinecapacity to feed that new
baseload generation that I thinkthis region, and I'll go so far
as to say is starving for.
We need to we need to make bigstrides on energy uh
(26:33):
independence.
And uh, you know, not to go toofar off topic, uh I'm pretty
excited uh of late of what I'veseen from you know uh the
legislative group and theexecutive uh branch of uh of the
state.
And and I I see a recognitionof that that really makes me
excited about what's possible inthe future.
Paul Ciampoli (26:51):
I would love to have you back.
Perhaps around this time nextyear, we could revisit some of
these topics and other topics aswell.
Tom Barry (26:58):
I'd love to do that, and thank you so much for the
opportunity.
I've really enjoyed theconversation.
Paul Ciampoli (27:04):
Thanks for listening to this episode of
Public Power Now, which wasproduced by Julio Guerrero,
graphic and digital designerAPPA.
I'm Paul Ciampoli, and we'll beback next week with more from
the world of public power.
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