December 17, 2024 • 33 mins
Original broadcast date March 21, 2022. Discover how the realms of public relations and Christian values intertwine through the insights of Dr. Amanda Stagenborg from George Fox University and Reverend Brian Fessler of the Religion Communicators Council. Dr. Stagenborg elaborates on how integrating Christian ethics into PR education at George Fox shapes students to serve both community and vocation. Reverend Fessler unpacks the complexities of religious communication in today's saturated media landscape, stressing the power of storytelling and the importance of cultivating authentic media relationships.
We move deeper into the world where PR meets religion, with Reverend Fessler sharing his triumphs in promoting community events, such as the Tennessee celebration of International Human Rights Day. This segment also explores the alignment between PR ethics and Christian principles, noting how values like honesty and advocacy are vital in both arenas. Our conversation addresses the challenges of public misconceptions about PR and its ethical maturation over time, drawing intriguing parallels with religious motivations and the necessity of crisis communication skills.
The discussion shifts towards the critical role of internal communications within organizations, emphasizing how creating respectful and engaging workplace environments can spur morale and productivity. Dr. Stagenborg and Reverend Fessler highlight the importance of ongoing training and education in enriching religious communication, advocating for professional development that lifts individuals while staying true to core values. Finally, we touch upon a program with a global reach, examining its organic growth and its far-reaching impact, illustrating the power of strong foundational values in achieving widespread influence.
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Episode Transcript
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Announcer (00:03):
Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast, a
program to discuss the manyfacets of public relations with
seasoned professionals,educators, authors and others.
Now here is your host, peterWoolfolk.
Peter Woolfolk (00:24):
Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast
and to our listeners all acrossAmerica and around the world.
Now, today we have a discussionabout a segment of public
relations I've had very littleexperience with, and perhaps
others as well, and that ispublic relations from a
Christian perspective.
It just so happens one of mylisteners reached out to me and
(00:46):
said you should perhaps givesome consideration to doing a
podcast on Christian publicrelations.
Well, so, wanting to present awide variety of public relations
information, I see this as anopportunity to broaden our
knowledge base.
So today my guests are thatcaller, dr Amanda Stagenborg.
(01:06):
She is the Assistant Professorof Public Relations and Director
of PR Internship and Practica,and she joins us today from the
George Fox University inNewburgh, oregon.
And we're also joined byReverend Brian Fessler.
He is the National VicePresident of the Religion
Communicators Council, and hejoins us today from Nashville,
(01:27):
tennessee.
So let me thank both of you forbeing guests on the podcast
today.
Brian Fessler (01:33):
Thank you, great to be here.
Peter Woolfolk (01:35):
So, amanda, let's start with you.
Just for openness, give me youroverview of public relations
from a Christian perspective.
Amanda Stagenborg (01:44):
Well public relations in the way that we
teach it at George Fox.
We believe that we doeverything for the glory of God
and we believe that our students, our PR students, respond to
their calling.
We believe that there is adifference between a vocation
(02:05):
and a career.
We believe that their callingto serve their community and to
serve other people could presentthemselves in public relations
practice, doing campaigns for anonprofit, ensuring that there
is visibility for businesses inthe community that are aligned
(02:30):
with Christian values, christianfaith, and also aligned with
the PRSA Code of Ethics, and soboth from their Christian values
, christian standards, fromtheir Christian values,
christian standards aligningwith their professional
standards, then we believe thatthat is a complete person and
(02:57):
then we are also honoring God,the Father in that.
Peter Woolfolk (03:01):
And Brian, from your perspective, you are out
there on a regular basis, as Iwould imagine, dealing with the
media to get placements and thatsort of thing.
Tell us about your experienceand your relationship with the
media and how you go about itand, if at all, you've had any
challenges there.
Brian Fessler (03:15):
Sure, you know I've had some interesting
challenges.
My personal background I cometo this occupation and
profession as a Scientologist.
I'm actually with the Church ofScientology in Nashville and
that led me to.
I've done public relations workwith the church, so that has
some unique challenges.
And that led me to working withthe Religion Communicators
(03:36):
Council because I was lookingfor other people that have had
the similar kind of challengesthat I've run into.
And I found RCC and been withthem for about 10 or 15 years
and that's allowed me to workwith a lot of the Christian
communicators.
Rcc started as actually startedas only limited to Protestant
Christians back in 1929, andopened up to all denominations
(03:58):
in 1967, and then interfaithlater on.
So, to answer your question, Ifind that media is really hard
to crack these days.
If you're trying to get aplacement in the Tennessean or
the Chicago newspapers orsomething, good luck.
You're probably better off tojust reach out to reporters.
(04:19):
They write their own stuff.
You don't get to just submit apress release and it gets
printed anymore.
But there's a lot of other mediaoutlets.
There's a lot of smaller pressdailies, weeklies that are
important and looking for news,as well as specialist-type
journals, trade publications.
We have some local papers thatare eager to hear from you.
(04:44):
They want to hear from you,they want to report what's going
on in the community and they'renot just bound to whatever
comes on the wire or so forth.
So I think the best luck thatwe've had and the best advice
would be to reach out to thosekind of media outlets.
Peter Woolfolk (05:02):
Well, one of the things, at least from from it.
We're all in the practice ofpublic relations that we need to
understand, first and foremost,that that reporters are
interested in a story and we'vegot a frame that is something
that they would be interested in.
So part of it, part of thesuccess, regardless of what it
is you've got, is the pitch, anddoes it fit what the reporter
(05:23):
writes about?
I I mean, are we all sort ofall on board with, with that
part of it?
oh, yeah, absolutely and quitehonestly, brian, as I listened
to part of it, you're absolutelyright.
Simply because of the pandemicand the reduction force in so
many, particularly newspapers,uh does present a problem, I
mean regardless of who it is,simply because there are fewer
(05:44):
people writing the same amountof information coming at them.
So some make it and some don't.
So I guess, as with anythingelse, you have to be skillful as
to how you go about pitching itand what is the story that
you're trying to get out tothese reporters.
I think we're all going tosuffer that sort of
(06:05):
inconvenience of problems is thebest way of putting that.
Brian Fessler (06:08):
And I think it's important to treat these
reporters as people and yourfriend and not just somebody
you're trying to use to get aplacement.
And, you know, put therelations into the public
relations part of it.
Peter Woolfolk (06:24):
Well, I certainly agree with that
question about it, amanda.
Let me get back to you now.
Let's talk, perhaps, about astudent coming out of George Fox
and applying for a job.
Or maybe they've gottenrecruited or gone to one of
these recruiting sessions sothey're going down for an
interview at a major PR firm.
(06:44):
How do they approach that?
I mean in terms of looking fora job down there?
Are there certain things thatthey would be on the lookout for
that would make them feeluncomfortable and not want to go
forward?
And if so, what would they be?
Amanda Stagenborg (07:01):
Well, there could be some of those things,
and we want to ensure that theyare aware of the social patterns
and how those reflect theirvalues and spiritual practice.
However, it's also important forthem to get a job, and so when
(07:23):
they are at George Fox, they dosign a lifestyle agreement and
they abide by certain standardsof conduct, and those standards
include avoiding alcohol,gambling, promiscuous behavior,
(07:45):
tobacco use, profanity, use ofprofanity, and a lot of times
when they are looking for a jobin the agency world, they run
into situations where they aretorn about going to happy hours,
(08:06):
or some of those places mighthave stocked bars in the office,
or tobacco use and profanity,and that culture is just a lot
different than what they're usedto, and so that has caused a
bit of a cultural challenge, andwe need to well inform them of
those challenges so that theydon't have culture shock when
(08:28):
they go into these places.
They need to be well aware ofthe sort of clients that some of
the firms and agenciesrepresent.
For example, if a firmrepresents a brewery or a casino
, would a student be comfortableworking on campaigns for that
(08:49):
client?
And so we like to be incrediblyrealistic with them, get an
idea of where they want to goand how they want to apply
everything that they've learnedin a realistic setting, at the
same time understanding thatthey do come from a Christian
university and they might beinterested in maintaining those
(09:13):
standards.
Peter Woolfolk (09:15):
Let me go back to going into a firm and some of
the clients there, because thatraises the question for me.
Assuming, yes, that they arebeing interviewed by a PR firm
and that firm does happen torepresent the hard alcohol
client, but at the same timethey might have a government
agency that they're working with, a nonprofit that they're
(09:37):
working with, as long as thatstudent does not have to work on
that particular client, thatalcoholic client's project.
And then let's say, they canwork with the nonprofit.
How do you view that particularset of circumstances?
Amanda Stagenborg (09:55):
Well, we view that as fine, as long as the
entry-level professional feelsempowered to say something.
And a lot of times, students intheir, or graduates in their
first position, they don'treally say anything.
They're just happy to have ajob or they just want to do the
PR work that they've beentrained to do, and so making
(10:19):
sure that they do feel empoweredto say something, that they
aren't entirely comfortable withworking for one client, but
they are comfortable withworking for another client.
I think that's key to all ofthis ensuring that they can say
that.
I don't think that rejectingthe firm entirely is realistic.
(10:40):
I think that there are many,many clients out there that do
excellent mission-driven work oragencies that do mission-driven
work, and they have severalclients that might conflict with
a student's values or spiritualbeliefs, but that doesn't mean
that they can't work at thatfirm.
(11:01):
It just means that they have tobe empowered to say what
they're comfortable with.
Peter Woolfolk (11:06):
Okay that I think there's a huge
clarification right there.
Brian, talk about some of thethings that you're pitching to
newspapers where there mighthave been hurdles for you in
terms of topic or whatever.
Some of the issues, becausewhen you say religion
communicator, that is a wide,wide range of things to
(11:26):
communicate about.
So give me some ideas of whereyou're successful and where you
maybe had some bumps in the road.
Brian Fessler (11:34):
Well, I think, um speaking for my, my personal
efforts, we've been um Mostsuccessful at community events,
community-oriented events thatwe've worked with and worked on.
I've personally chaired theTennessee celebration of
International Human Rights Dayfor a number of years, and so
(11:56):
the papers want to hear aboutthat.
It's an easy sell to havesomething published about that
and that mentions all theorganizers and the participants,
and maybe our church would geta little bit of press in that
regard.
Once again, it's kind of thepurpose A really good friend of
mine said one time.
He said do you want it to getdone or do you want your name on
(12:17):
it?
And I'm usually the guy thatwants it to get done, so I kind
of sometimes forget aboutgetting the name on it, but when
I'm thinking about that, that'sprobably the best way we go
about things is just to dothings and actually work in the
community, and then people willfind it's interesting.
And I just wanted to commenttoo on what Amanda was saying.
(12:41):
I'm really glad to hear aboutthis emphasis on values in the
education that they're providing.
Religion communicators, workingfrom my RCC role here, are a
really varied lot of people andmost of the time I'd say
probably half the time or more,they come into this field almost
(13:01):
by accident.
Maybe they were just going tochurch and somebody asked them
if you could send an email, andnow they're a communicator.
You know, now they're a PRperson and so they don't really
necessarily come into it withI'm going to be a PR personality
, but they know how to do socialmedia, so the pastor asks them
to send out tweets or they havea little bit of experience, and
(13:23):
so that's one really interestingbunch.
And then there's another groupthat comes at it that are
trained like they've gone toschool for it or they've had
life experience as a PRprofessional, and now they're
working for their faith oranother faith.
A lot of our members in RCC aremembers of one faith and they
work for another faith, doingpublic relations work.
(13:45):
So that's an interesting twist.
You know we're not talkingabout beer, now we're talking
about.
You know, I'm from the Churchof Christ.
Can I help the Presbyterianssell their message?
That's a really interestingconundrum.
That's particular, probably, toreligious communications.
Peter Woolfolk (14:03):
Well, it's interesting because, for
transparency, brian and I metyears ago when I was handling
public relations for Nashville'sannual Martin Luther King Day
march and I'm not sure how manywere on that committee.
We were probably looking at atleast 10 to 15 or so odd people
and a lot of the ministers therewere Baptist ministers.
So we had a wide range of folkswho were involved in this
(14:26):
singular annual event andeverything went exceptionally
well because the bottom line isgetting the job done.
Let me just refer right quickto this article that I got from
this student from MessiahUniversity.
She says that part ofadvocating for publics as a PR
practitioner is understandingone's priority as an advocator
(14:47):
and sacrificing oneself for thegreater good of society.
As a PR professional, I willinevitably be faced with
challenging decisions that couldgreatly impact the public I'm
interacting with, andremembering that part of my role
is to advocate for them helpsme put my choices in perspective
.
So it sounds as though there'snot a wide range of departure
(15:12):
from, let's say, the Christianperspective than the PR
perspective as a whole.
Does that seem to make a lot ofsense there?
Amanda Stagenborg (15:21):
Absolutely.
It definitely can blendtogether and you can make it
work together.
I mean public relations at itscore is a profession where you
have to be honest and loyal andadvise correctly and a lot of
(15:45):
that.
A lot of the professionalvalues are definitely aligned
with the Christian values.
It's just a matter of howstudents do this and how
professionals do this inpractice.
Brian Fessler (16:00):
Yeah, you know, the history of PR is scattered
with people's misconceptions ofwhat PR actually is and they'll
look at.
There's a saying everybodylistens to the anonymous source,
nobody listens to the officialspokesperson.
But the official spokespersonis the one who knows what's
(16:20):
going on in the organization.
And you have the beginnings ofPR that happens to.
They say, well, it happened tocover up what was going on in
the organization.
And you have the beginnings ofPR that happened to.
They say, well, it happened tocover up what was going on in
the steel industry and theworkers, abuses of workers, and
so they hired PR people.
But you look back at the earlyPR people.
Like you know the historyprobably better than I do.
But Ivy Lee is a famous earlyPR person and he was attacked
(16:44):
for representing theRockefellers.
But he also established one ofthe first codes of ethics for PR
.
And I think religion and PR gohand in hand.
I think the first Christian PRperson was Jesus.
You know God sent his son.
That was the word.
If he didn't send his son, wewould have never got the message
(17:04):
.
So here we are, you know, 2,000years later, and we're still
trying to spread the message.
And that's probably maybe thedifference between PR in
religion and PR in the secularworld is, I think the religious
people are driven by somedifferent motivations, or
perhaps deeper than that, thanyou know selling soap or other
(17:26):
things that are necessary butdifferent.
Peter Woolfolk (17:30):
You know, I find it interesting because there is
a major alignment there.
One of the things that PRpeople also do a lot of them
have some training in crisiscommunications, because
sometimes, in delivering themessage, it might be a huge
mistake as to how it wasdelivered or the fact that the
message wasn't delivered at all.
(17:51):
So, as a result of that, you'vegot a big problem on your hands
.
And how do we fix this?
And part of the fixing, as wefind out, is basically you
should have said given a truththe first time around, but you
didn't.
Brian Fessler (18:04):
So now we've got to put it out there, but you
didn't, so now we've got to putit out there.
Peter Woolfolk (18:10):
Right, we've got to go back and clean that up so
that you can hopefully regainsome reputation that you lost in
the first go-round.
So I can see that there iscertainly some parallel there
between the Christianperspective and the public
relations at large, becausethey're pretty much bound to do
(18:31):
the right thing and be honestand transparent.
Brian Fessler (18:35):
Yes, yes.
Amanda Stagenborg (18:36):
That's right, amanda, do you teach?
Brian Fessler (18:37):
crisis communications.
Amanda Stagenborg (18:39):
I do yes.
Brian Fessler (18:41):
Yeah, it's a very popular subject for the RCC
members as well.
We have workshops on that atour convention just about every
year.
Amanda Stagenborg (18:51):
Oh yeah, it's so important.
You know about 60% oforganizations don't have a
crisis plan in place, and theones that do don't update it,
and usually when people don'tknow the difference between an
issue and a crisis.
And then how do we address bothright and how do we prevent an
(19:11):
issue from becoming a crisis?
And that is something that'sincredibly important, especially
in today's world, where there'sso much visibility on
everything that everyone says.
So we need to make sure that weare supporting the right
message at the right time.
Peter Woolfolk (19:32):
You know, I'm glad that came up.
It came several of us probablymaybe a little.
Around a year and a half ago Idid a guy you know had him as a
guest.
He was a crisis communicationsexpert and part of his job,
before he really got into this,was an investigative reporter.
And the one thing that he toldme that I remember to this day
in terms of crisiscommunications is that most
(19:55):
crisis communications plans arebuilt on you know how to.
You know what do we do ifsomething happens.
You know how do we, who doeswhat, when and where, who does
what when and where.
And he said to me that one ofthe most important parts that
people fail to do in theircrisis communications plan is
look back at any and everythingthat possibly could go wrong and
(20:20):
have everybody from everydepartment to come together and
say, well, fine, somebody leftthe back door open last night.
Well, who did that?
You know these kinds of thingsso that if you take these
preventative actions ahead oftime, that might cut down on
maybe a good 20%, 25% of whatyour problems could be.
You know, rather than waitingfor the horse to get out, as
(20:41):
they say, as the barn door isopen, and then try to fix it.
Let's look at what could gowrong right now and then put in
some preventative measures forthat sort of activity.
Amanda Stagenborg (20:52):
Sure, well, sure.
I think it's the differencebetween being proactive and
reactive.
And it's hard for organizationsto do that because then they
have to take a pretty thorough,in-depth look at themselves and
where they could go wrong, and alot of times they don't want to
(21:12):
do that.
So that's where the.
Pr person comes in.
Brian Fessler (21:15):
Well, you know some of our first.
Peter Woolfolk (21:17):
Go ahead, Brian.
Brian Fessler (21:19):
I was just going to say.
Some of our first PR is theinternal PR, to explain to our
coworkers and the congregationand the trustees and everybody
else what we're doing and whywe're doing it and to kind of
get their buy-in.
If you can't convince your ownpeople of something, you're
going to have trouble convincingthe world around you of
something.
(21:40):
But that's a tougher sell andonce they understand oh, this is
why we have to do this, this iswhy we need to keep that back
door closed.
Then your job as acommunications professional
becomes easier, because youdon't have to talk about it.
Amanda Stagenborg (21:57):
Right, that's a really good point and I think
that just stemming off of that,you can't ever make your
external PR work unless thatinternal is solid Absolutely.
And I think that the blend ofmarketing with communications
and public relations over thelast 10, 15 years has really
(22:24):
hurt public relations.
And now we're at a time wherepeople are wanting that internal
, the emphasis placed on thatinternal, to return.
Brian Fessler (22:35):
I agree.
Peter Woolfolk (22:36):
Well, and sort of amplifying that further.
If you look at the data aboutwhy a lot of people are, maybe
the pandemic opened the door onus.
A lot of people are resigningfrom their jobs.
It was because of how they werebeing treated there.
You know folks are a little bitslow picking up on that.
But now that the folks are outof the door and it's become a
(22:58):
problem in terms of bringinghiring new folks and so forth.
But going back to what I saidearlier, if you get ahead of
this and have good interactionwith your complete staff, being
honest with them you know fairtreatment, the ability to say
things, that if they findsomething wrong, encourage them
if something goes wrong toreport it, doing it, and that
(23:29):
there is going to be no blowbackfor doing it, then these kinds
of things can certainly help anorganization move forward and
improve employee morale in theprocess.
Amanda Stagenborg (23:36):
Absolutely Definitely.
One of the things that wewanted to emphasize here at
George Fox in our program is notjust standard public relations
of how to get a message acrossand how to make it stick, but
also responding internally.
How do we treat each other?
(23:57):
How do we treat people withcompassion and respect and
maintain that throughout ourprofessional careers?
And it's not about getting thealmighty dollar, but it really
is about people, and I thinkthat that gets lost in the
messaging, and there are so manystudies being done right now
(24:19):
where people need that.
They need to feel respected.
I believe there was anorganization that did an
internal survey and this wasrecent and there was so much
turnover at the organization andthey tried to give them more
money, give them more time off,try to make them happy the
(24:41):
employees in any way that theycould, and what they found out
was that the people just wantedto be respected, they just
wanted their voices to be heard,and I think that's why public
relations is so important,especially at a Christian level,
because you are, it is sacred,you are giving a voice to the
voiceless and we really believein that.
Peter Woolfolk (25:04):
Let me just add to that, because one of the
other things that I just saidbeing heard when I worked in the
federal government inWashington DC, one of the things
that I started there was aninternal newsletter and one of
the things that was very, veryimportant is that the individual
people, regardless of who, youwere.
(25:24):
If you had something good thathappened to you in your job or
on your family, you could talkabout it and you could get some
space in that newsletter,because people also like
recognition.
I mean it does not have to beat the end of the year where you
get a plaque, but if you dosomething that's small and
appreciated and help the projectgoing, if you give them
recognition for that, theyreally like that idea because
(25:47):
that's what they're there for todo their job and doing it.
You know the small pieces of itBecause you know you can have
100% of the people participatingin a project but if 1% of them
doesn't do the thing right, thenthe project doesn't go well at
all.
So everybody needs to have thatrecognition.
So that internal part of itshould also be a part of an
(26:11):
organization's outreach effortsand ways to maintain camaraderie
and goodwill in an organization.
Brian Fessler (26:19):
Yeah for sure.
Pr department or communicationsdepartment.
Some of our members in RCC dojust internal work.
Some of them just do theinternal employee handbook and
that kind of annual reports andthat kind of thing, and
(26:40):
sometimes they'll have differentprofessionals that work on
internal and external PR.
It just shows you how valuablethat is.
Peter Woolfolk (26:46):
Well, in some cases you really don't have to
have a large organization.
You know, the leader of theorganization should take the
leadership in that and lettingpeople know that they are
well-recognized.
Because one of my practicesthat I believed in was, as I
said, you know, I would walk thehall, so to speak.
I would go to where the peopleare to sit down and talk to them
.
How are things going?
(27:06):
What's missing?
What do we need to do to helpyou do a better job?
Those kinds of things.
It doesn't have to be confinedjust to the annual awards dinner
for the organization at the endof the year.
So let me ask you now, I justwant to make sure have we
covered all of those things thatyou think are important for
people to understand about yourperspectives when it comes to
(27:30):
public relations?
Brian Fessler (27:32):
Well, you could take that question a lot of ways
.
There's a lot of importantthings to cover.
But you know, I think if I wereto add anything, I just want to
say that I really appreciatepeople like Amanda that's really
taking the the care to trainpeople.
Our members are proud of their,their credentials, and you know
(27:53):
some of them are.
They have their APR credentials, are very proud of that, and
the more training you get, themore professional you become,
the better able you are to do,to do the work.
So that's something that wefocus on in RCC and professional
development and so forth, andso I think that I would advise
(28:14):
people interested in thisprofession or that are already
working into it to keep theircontinuing education Things
change and just to keep learningand keep growing and keep
spreading the good word.
What we're doing in religiouscommunication is so important.
All you have to do is turn onthe news for five minutes and
that will remind you howimportant it is to lift people
(28:35):
up and that's key to what we'redoing.
That's why I support the RCC.
That's why I support anybodythat's trying to lift people up.
Give them the power.
That's all I've got.
Peter Woolfolk (28:47):
Okay, Any closing remarks Amanda.
Amanda Stagenborg (28:51):
Well, I would absolutely echo all of that and
wanted to mention that publicrelations is always evolving,
it's always moving forward, butat the same time, we have to
know who we are and be true toourselves and understanding that
we can work for an organization, we can work for a nonprofit or
(29:17):
a religious organization and wecan absolutely maintain our
spiritual values and do the verybest work that we possibly can.
And I certainly supporteverything that Brian is doing
and appreciate the platform.
Thank you.
Brian Fessler (29:38):
Yeah, thank you, and thank you, peter, for
lifting up this profession likeyou do.
Peter Woolfolk (29:42):
Well, let me say thank both of you for joining
to talk about this.
You know, I think it certainlysheds a lot more light, and the
fact that you know this programis worldwide and you know not
that I worked at it, it justorganically happened.
So I want to thank again bothguests, dr Amanda Stegenborg
from George Fox University andthe Reverend Brian Fessler from
(30:05):
the Religion CommunicatorsCouncil, and I always want to
thank you for being ourlisteners and if you've enjoyed
the show, we look forward togetting a review from you and,
of course, tell your friends andjoin us again for the next
edition of the Public RelationsReview Podcast.
Announcer (30:23):
This podcast is produced by Communication
Strategies, an award-winningpublic relations and public
affairs firm headquartered inNashville, Tennessee.
Thank you for joining us.
Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast, a
program to discuss the manyfacets of public relations with
seasoned professionals,educators, authors and others.
Now here is your host, peterWoolfolk.
Peter Woolfolk (00:24):
Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast
and to our listeners all acrossAmerica and around the world.
Now, today we have a discussionabout a segment of public
relations I've had very littleexperience with, and perhaps
others as well, and that ispublic relations from a
Christian perspective.
It just so happens one of mylisteners reached out to me and
(00:46):
said you should perhaps givesome consideration to doing a
podcast on Christian publicrelations.
Well, so, wanting to present awide variety of public relations
information, I see this as anopportunity to broaden our
knowledge base.
So today my guests are thatcaller, dr Amanda Stagenborg.
(01:06):
She is the Assistant Professorof Public Relations and Director
of PR Internship and Practica,and she joins us today from the
George Fox University inNewburgh, oregon.
And we're also joined byReverend Brian Fessler.
He is the National VicePresident of the Religion
Communicators Council, and hejoins us today from Nashville,
(01:27):
tennessee.
So let me thank both of you forbeing guests on the podcast
today.
Brian Fessler (01:33):
Thank you, great to be here.
Peter Woolfolk (01:35):
So, amanda, let's start with you.
Just for openness, give me youroverview of public relations
from a Christian perspective.
Amanda Stagenborg (01:44):
Well public relations in the way that we
teach it at George Fox.
We believe that we doeverything for the glory of God
and we believe that our students, our PR students, respond to
their calling.
We believe that there is adifference between a vocation
(02:05):
and a career.
We believe that their callingto serve their community and to
serve other people could presentthemselves in public relations
practice, doing campaigns for anonprofit, ensuring that there
is visibility for businesses inthe community that are aligned
(02:30):
with Christian values, christianfaith, and also aligned with
the PRSA Code of Ethics, and soboth from their Christian values
, christian standards, fromtheir Christian values,
christian standards aligningwith their professional
standards, then we believe thatthat is a complete person and
(02:57):
then we are also honoring God,the Father in that.
Peter Woolfolk (03:01):
And Brian, from your perspective, you are out
there on a regular basis, as Iwould imagine, dealing with the
media to get placements and thatsort of thing.
Tell us about your experienceand your relationship with the
media and how you go about itand, if at all, you've had any
challenges there.
Brian Fessler (03:15):
Sure, you know I've had some interesting
challenges.
My personal background I cometo this occupation and
profession as a Scientologist.
I'm actually with the Church ofScientology in Nashville and
that led me to.
I've done public relations workwith the church, so that has
some unique challenges.
And that led me to working withthe Religion Communicators
(03:36):
Council because I was lookingfor other people that have had
the similar kind of challengesthat I've run into.
And I found RCC and been withthem for about 10 or 15 years
and that's allowed me to workwith a lot of the Christian
communicators.
Rcc started as actually startedas only limited to Protestant
Christians back in 1929, andopened up to all denominations
(03:58):
in 1967, and then interfaithlater on.
So, to answer your question, Ifind that media is really hard
to crack these days.
If you're trying to get aplacement in the Tennessean or
the Chicago newspapers orsomething, good luck.
You're probably better off tojust reach out to reporters.
(04:19):
They write their own stuff.
You don't get to just submit apress release and it gets
printed anymore.
But there's a lot of other mediaoutlets.
There's a lot of smaller pressdailies, weeklies that are
important and looking for news,as well as specialist-type
journals, trade publications.
We have some local papers thatare eager to hear from you.
(04:44):
They want to hear from you,they want to report what's going
on in the community and they'renot just bound to whatever
comes on the wire or so forth.
So I think the best luck thatwe've had and the best advice
would be to reach out to thosekind of media outlets.
Peter Woolfolk (05:02):
Well, one of the things, at least from from it.
We're all in the practice ofpublic relations that we need to
understand, first and foremost,that that reporters are
interested in a story and we'vegot a frame that is something
that they would be interested in.
So part of it, part of thesuccess, regardless of what it
is you've got, is the pitch, anddoes it fit what the reporter
(05:23):
writes about?
I I mean, are we all sort ofall on board with, with that
part of it?
oh, yeah, absolutely and quitehonestly, brian, as I listened
to part of it, you're absolutelyright.
Simply because of the pandemicand the reduction force in so
many, particularly newspapers,uh does present a problem, I
mean regardless of who it is,simply because there are fewer
(05:44):
people writing the same amountof information coming at them.
So some make it and some don't.
So I guess, as with anythingelse, you have to be skillful as
to how you go about pitching itand what is the story that
you're trying to get out tothese reporters.
I think we're all going tosuffer that sort of
(06:05):
inconvenience of problems is thebest way of putting that.
Brian Fessler (06:08):
And I think it's important to treat these
reporters as people and yourfriend and not just somebody
you're trying to use to get aplacement.
And, you know, put therelations into the public
relations part of it.
Peter Woolfolk (06:24):
Well, I certainly agree with that
question about it, amanda.
Let me get back to you now.
Let's talk, perhaps, about astudent coming out of George Fox
and applying for a job.
Or maybe they've gottenrecruited or gone to one of
these recruiting sessions sothey're going down for an
interview at a major PR firm.
(06:44):
How do they approach that?
I mean in terms of looking fora job down there?
Are there certain things thatthey would be on the lookout for
that would make them feeluncomfortable and not want to go
forward?
And if so, what would they be?
Amanda Stagenborg (07:01):
Well, there could be some of those things,
and we want to ensure that theyare aware of the social patterns
and how those reflect theirvalues and spiritual practice.
However, it's also important forthem to get a job, and so when
(07:23):
they are at George Fox, they dosign a lifestyle agreement and
they abide by certain standardsof conduct, and those standards
include avoiding alcohol,gambling, promiscuous behavior,
(07:45):
tobacco use, profanity, use ofprofanity, and a lot of times
when they are looking for a jobin the agency world, they run
into situations where they aretorn about going to happy hours,
(08:06):
or some of those places mighthave stocked bars in the office,
or tobacco use and profanity,and that culture is just a lot
different than what they're usedto, and so that has caused a
bit of a cultural challenge, andwe need to well inform them of
those challenges so that theydon't have culture shock when
(08:28):
they go into these places.
They need to be well aware ofthe sort of clients that some of
the firms and agenciesrepresent.
For example, if a firmrepresents a brewery or a casino
, would a student be comfortableworking on campaigns for that
(08:49):
client?
And so we like to be incrediblyrealistic with them, get an
idea of where they want to goand how they want to apply
everything that they've learnedin a realistic setting, at the
same time understanding thatthey do come from a Christian
university and they might beinterested in maintaining those
(09:13):
standards.
Peter Woolfolk (09:15):
Let me go back to going into a firm and some of
the clients there, because thatraises the question for me.
Assuming, yes, that they arebeing interviewed by a PR firm
and that firm does happen torepresent the hard alcohol
client, but at the same timethey might have a government
agency that they're working with, a nonprofit that they're
(09:37):
working with, as long as thatstudent does not have to work on
that particular client, thatalcoholic client's project.
And then let's say, they canwork with the nonprofit.
How do you view that particularset of circumstances?
Amanda Stagenborg (09:55):
Well, we view that as fine, as long as the
entry-level professional feelsempowered to say something.
And a lot of times, students intheir, or graduates in their
first position, they don'treally say anything.
They're just happy to have ajob or they just want to do the
PR work that they've beentrained to do, and so making
(10:19):
sure that they do feel empoweredto say something, that they
aren't entirely comfortable withworking for one client, but
they are comfortable withworking for another client.
I think that's key to all ofthis ensuring that they can say
that.
I don't think that rejectingthe firm entirely is realistic.
(10:40):
I think that there are many,many clients out there that do
excellent mission-driven work oragencies that do mission-driven
work, and they have severalclients that might conflict with
a student's values or spiritualbeliefs, but that doesn't mean
that they can't work at thatfirm.
(11:01):
It just means that they have tobe empowered to say what
they're comfortable with.
Peter Woolfolk (11:06):
Okay that I think there's a huge
clarification right there.
Brian, talk about some of thethings that you're pitching to
newspapers where there mighthave been hurdles for you in
terms of topic or whatever.
Some of the issues, becausewhen you say religion
communicator, that is a wide,wide range of things to
(11:26):
communicate about.
So give me some ideas of whereyou're successful and where you
maybe had some bumps in the road.
Brian Fessler (11:34):
Well, I think, um speaking for my, my personal
efforts, we've been um Mostsuccessful at community events,
community-oriented events thatwe've worked with and worked on.
I've personally chaired theTennessee celebration of
International Human Rights Dayfor a number of years, and so
(11:56):
the papers want to hear aboutthat.
It's an easy sell to havesomething published about that
and that mentions all theorganizers and the participants,
and maybe our church would geta little bit of press in that
regard.
Once again, it's kind of thepurpose A really good friend of
mine said one time.
He said do you want it to getdone or do you want your name on
(12:17):
it?
And I'm usually the guy thatwants it to get done, so I kind
of sometimes forget aboutgetting the name on it, but when
I'm thinking about that, that'sprobably the best way we go
about things is just to dothings and actually work in the
community, and then people willfind it's interesting.
And I just wanted to commenttoo on what Amanda was saying.
(12:41):
I'm really glad to hear aboutthis emphasis on values in the
education that they're providing.
Religion communicators, workingfrom my RCC role here, are a
really varied lot of people andmost of the time I'd say
probably half the time or more,they come into this field almost
(13:01):
by accident.
Maybe they were just going tochurch and somebody asked them
if you could send an email, andnow they're a communicator.
You know, now they're a PRperson and so they don't really
necessarily come into it withI'm going to be a PR personality
, but they know how to do socialmedia, so the pastor asks them
to send out tweets or they havea little bit of experience, and
(13:23):
so that's one really interestingbunch.
And then there's another groupthat comes at it that are
trained like they've gone toschool for it or they've had
life experience as a PRprofessional, and now they're
working for their faith oranother faith.
A lot of our members in RCC aremembers of one faith and they
work for another faith, doingpublic relations work.
(13:45):
So that's an interesting twist.
You know we're not talkingabout beer, now we're talking
about.
You know, I'm from the Churchof Christ.
Can I help the Presbyterianssell their message?
That's a really interestingconundrum.
That's particular, probably, toreligious communications.
Peter Woolfolk (14:03):
Well, it's interesting because, for
transparency, brian and I metyears ago when I was handling
public relations for Nashville'sannual Martin Luther King Day
march and I'm not sure how manywere on that committee.
We were probably looking at atleast 10 to 15 or so odd people
and a lot of the ministers therewere Baptist ministers.
So we had a wide range of folkswho were involved in this
(14:26):
singular annual event andeverything went exceptionally
well because the bottom line isgetting the job done.
Let me just refer right quickto this article that I got from
this student from MessiahUniversity.
She says that part ofadvocating for publics as a PR
practitioner is understandingone's priority as an advocator
(14:47):
and sacrificing oneself for thegreater good of society.
As a PR professional, I willinevitably be faced with
challenging decisions that couldgreatly impact the public I'm
interacting with, andremembering that part of my role
is to advocate for them helpsme put my choices in perspective
.
So it sounds as though there'snot a wide range of departure
(15:12):
from, let's say, the Christianperspective than the PR
perspective as a whole.
Does that seem to make a lot ofsense there?
Amanda Stagenborg (15:21):
Absolutely.
It definitely can blendtogether and you can make it
work together.
I mean public relations at itscore is a profession where you
have to be honest and loyal andadvise correctly and a lot of
(15:45):
that.
A lot of the professionalvalues are definitely aligned
with the Christian values.
It's just a matter of howstudents do this and how
professionals do this inpractice.
Brian Fessler (16:00):
Yeah, you know, the history of PR is scattered
with people's misconceptions ofwhat PR actually is and they'll
look at.
There's a saying everybodylistens to the anonymous source,
nobody listens to the officialspokesperson.
But the official spokespersonis the one who knows what's
(16:20):
going on in the organization.
And you have the beginnings ofPR that happens to.
They say, well, it happened tocover up what was going on in
the organization.
And you have the beginnings ofPR that happened to.
They say, well, it happened tocover up what was going on in
the steel industry and theworkers, abuses of workers, and
so they hired PR people.
But you look back at the earlyPR people.
Like you know the historyprobably better than I do.
But Ivy Lee is a famous earlyPR person and he was attacked
(16:44):
for representing theRockefellers.
But he also established one ofthe first codes of ethics for PR
.
And I think religion and PR gohand in hand.
I think the first Christian PRperson was Jesus.
You know God sent his son.
That was the word.
If he didn't send his son, wewould have never got the message
(17:04):
.
So here we are, you know, 2,000years later, and we're still
trying to spread the message.
And that's probably maybe thedifference between PR in
religion and PR in the secularworld is, I think the religious
people are driven by somedifferent motivations, or
perhaps deeper than that, thanyou know selling soap or other
(17:26):
things that are necessary butdifferent.
Peter Woolfolk (17:30):
You know, I find it interesting because there is
a major alignment there.
One of the things that PRpeople also do a lot of them
have some training in crisiscommunications, because
sometimes, in delivering themessage, it might be a huge
mistake as to how it wasdelivered or the fact that the
message wasn't delivered at all.
(17:51):
So, as a result of that, you'vegot a big problem on your hands
.
And how do we fix this?
And part of the fixing, as wefind out, is basically you
should have said given a truththe first time around, but you
didn't.
Brian Fessler (18:04):
So now we've got to put it out there, but you
didn't, so now we've got to putit out there.
Peter Woolfolk (18:10):
Right, we've got to go back and clean that up so
that you can hopefully regainsome reputation that you lost in
the first go-round.
So I can see that there iscertainly some parallel there
between the Christianperspective and the public
relations at large, becausethey're pretty much bound to do
(18:31):
the right thing and be honestand transparent.
Brian Fessler (18:35):
Yes, yes.
Amanda Stagenborg (18:36):
That's right, amanda, do you teach?
Brian Fessler (18:37):
crisis communications.
Amanda Stagenborg (18:39):
I do yes.
Brian Fessler (18:41):
Yeah, it's a very popular subject for the RCC
members as well.
We have workshops on that atour convention just about every
year.
Amanda Stagenborg (18:51):
Oh yeah, it's so important.
You know about 60% oforganizations don't have a
crisis plan in place, and theones that do don't update it,
and usually when people don'tknow the difference between an
issue and a crisis.
And then how do we address bothright and how do we prevent an
(19:11):
issue from becoming a crisis?
And that is something that'sincredibly important, especially
in today's world, where there'sso much visibility on
everything that everyone says.
So we need to make sure that weare supporting the right
message at the right time.
Peter Woolfolk (19:32):
You know, I'm glad that came up.
It came several of us probablymaybe a little.
Around a year and a half ago Idid a guy you know had him as a
guest.
He was a crisis communicationsexpert and part of his job,
before he really got into this,was an investigative reporter.
And the one thing that he toldme that I remember to this day
in terms of crisiscommunications is that most
(19:55):
crisis communications plans arebuilt on you know how to.
You know what do we do ifsomething happens.
You know how do we, who doeswhat, when and where, who does
what when and where.
And he said to me that one ofthe most important parts that
people fail to do in theircrisis communications plan is
look back at any and everythingthat possibly could go wrong and
(20:20):
have everybody from everydepartment to come together and
say, well, fine, somebody leftthe back door open last night.
Well, who did that?
You know these kinds of thingsso that if you take these
preventative actions ahead oftime, that might cut down on
maybe a good 20%, 25% of whatyour problems could be.
You know, rather than waitingfor the horse to get out, as
(20:41):
they say, as the barn door isopen, and then try to fix it.
Let's look at what could gowrong right now and then put in
some preventative measures forthat sort of activity.
Amanda Stagenborg (20:52):
Sure, well, sure.
I think it's the differencebetween being proactive and
reactive.
And it's hard for organizationsto do that because then they
have to take a pretty thorough,in-depth look at themselves and
where they could go wrong, and alot of times they don't want to
(21:12):
do that.
So that's where the.
Pr person comes in.
Brian Fessler (21:15):
Well, you know some of our first.
Peter Woolfolk (21:17):
Go ahead, Brian.
Brian Fessler (21:19):
I was just going to say.
Some of our first PR is theinternal PR, to explain to our
coworkers and the congregationand the trustees and everybody
else what we're doing and whywe're doing it and to kind of
get their buy-in.
If you can't convince your ownpeople of something, you're
going to have trouble convincingthe world around you of
something.
(21:40):
But that's a tougher sell andonce they understand oh, this is
why we have to do this, this iswhy we need to keep that back
door closed.
Then your job as acommunications professional
becomes easier, because youdon't have to talk about it.
Amanda Stagenborg (21:57):
Right, that's a really good point and I think
that just stemming off of that,you can't ever make your
external PR work unless thatinternal is solid Absolutely.
And I think that the blend ofmarketing with communications
and public relations over thelast 10, 15 years has really
(22:24):
hurt public relations.
And now we're at a time wherepeople are wanting that internal
, the emphasis placed on thatinternal, to return.
Brian Fessler (22:35):
I agree.
Peter Woolfolk (22:36):
Well, and sort of amplifying that further.
If you look at the data aboutwhy a lot of people are, maybe
the pandemic opened the door onus.
A lot of people are resigningfrom their jobs.
It was because of how they werebeing treated there.
You know folks are a little bitslow picking up on that.
But now that the folks are outof the door and it's become a
(22:58):
problem in terms of bringinghiring new folks and so forth.
But going back to what I saidearlier, if you get ahead of
this and have good interactionwith your complete staff, being
honest with them you know fairtreatment, the ability to say
things, that if they findsomething wrong, encourage them
if something goes wrong toreport it, doing it, and that
(23:29):
there is going to be no blowbackfor doing it, then these kinds
of things can certainly help anorganization move forward and
improve employee morale in theprocess.
Amanda Stagenborg (23:36):
Absolutely Definitely.
One of the things that wewanted to emphasize here at
George Fox in our program is notjust standard public relations
of how to get a message acrossand how to make it stick, but
also responding internally.
How do we treat each other?
(23:57):
How do we treat people withcompassion and respect and
maintain that throughout ourprofessional careers?
And it's not about getting thealmighty dollar, but it really
is about people, and I thinkthat that gets lost in the
messaging, and there are so manystudies being done right now
(24:19):
where people need that.
They need to feel respected.
I believe there was anorganization that did an
internal survey and this wasrecent and there was so much
turnover at the organization andthey tried to give them more
money, give them more time off,try to make them happy the
(24:41):
employees in any way that theycould, and what they found out
was that the people just wantedto be respected, they just
wanted their voices to be heard,and I think that's why public
relations is so important,especially at a Christian level,
because you are, it is sacred,you are giving a voice to the
voiceless and we really believein that.
Peter Woolfolk (25:04):
Let me just add to that, because one of the
other things that I just saidbeing heard when I worked in the
federal government inWashington DC, one of the things
that I started there was aninternal newsletter and one of
the things that was very, veryimportant is that the individual
people, regardless of who, youwere.
(25:24):
If you had something good thathappened to you in your job or
on your family, you could talkabout it and you could get some
space in that newsletter,because people also like
recognition.
I mean it does not have to beat the end of the year where you
get a plaque, but if you dosomething that's small and
appreciated and help the projectgoing, if you give them
recognition for that, theyreally like that idea because
(25:47):
that's what they're there for todo their job and doing it.
You know the small pieces of itBecause you know you can have
100% of the people participatingin a project but if 1% of them
doesn't do the thing right, thenthe project doesn't go well at
all.
So everybody needs to have thatrecognition.
So that internal part of itshould also be a part of an
(26:11):
organization's outreach effortsand ways to maintain camaraderie
and goodwill in an organization.
Brian Fessler (26:19):
Yeah for sure.
Pr department or communicationsdepartment.
Some of our members in RCC dojust internal work.
Some of them just do theinternal employee handbook and
that kind of annual reports andthat kind of thing, and
(26:40):
sometimes they'll have differentprofessionals that work on
internal and external PR.
It just shows you how valuablethat is.
Peter Woolfolk (26:46):
Well, in some cases you really don't have to
have a large organization.
You know, the leader of theorganization should take the
leadership in that and lettingpeople know that they are
well-recognized.
Because one of my practicesthat I believed in was, as I
said, you know, I would walk thehall, so to speak.
I would go to where the peopleare to sit down and talk to them
.
How are things going?
(27:06):
What's missing?
What do we need to do to helpyou do a better job?
Those kinds of things.
It doesn't have to be confinedjust to the annual awards dinner
for the organization at the endof the year.
So let me ask you now, I justwant to make sure have we
covered all of those things thatyou think are important for
people to understand about yourperspectives when it comes to
(27:30):
public relations?
Brian Fessler (27:32):
Well, you could take that question a lot of ways
.
There's a lot of importantthings to cover.
But you know, I think if I wereto add anything, I just want to
say that I really appreciatepeople like Amanda that's really
taking the the care to trainpeople.
Our members are proud of their,their credentials, and you know
(27:53):
some of them are.
They have their APR credentials, are very proud of that, and
the more training you get, themore professional you become,
the better able you are to do,to do the work.
So that's something that wefocus on in RCC and professional
development and so forth, andso I think that I would advise
(28:14):
people interested in thisprofession or that are already
working into it to keep theircontinuing education Things
change and just to keep learningand keep growing and keep
spreading the good word.
What we're doing in religiouscommunication is so important.
All you have to do is turn onthe news for five minutes and
that will remind you howimportant it is to lift people
(28:35):
up and that's key to what we'redoing.
That's why I support the RCC.
That's why I support anybodythat's trying to lift people up.
Give them the power.
That's all I've got.
Peter Woolfolk (28:47):
Okay, Any closing remarks Amanda.
Amanda Stagenborg (28:51):
Well, I would absolutely echo all of that and
wanted to mention that publicrelations is always evolving,
it's always moving forward, butat the same time, we have to
know who we are and be true toourselves and understanding that
we can work for an organization, we can work for a nonprofit or
(29:17):
a religious organization and wecan absolutely maintain our
spiritual values and do the verybest work that we possibly can.
And I certainly supporteverything that Brian is doing
and appreciate the platform.
Thank you.
Brian Fessler (29:38):
Yeah, thank you, and thank you, peter, for
lifting up this profession likeyou do.
Peter Woolfolk (29:42):
Well, let me say thank both of you for joining
to talk about this.
You know, I think it certainlysheds a lot more light, and the
fact that you know this programis worldwide and you know not
that I worked at it, it justorganically happened.
So I want to thank again bothguests, dr Amanda Stegenborg
from George Fox University andthe Reverend Brian Fessler from
(30:05):
the Religion CommunicatorsCouncil, and I always want to
thank you for being ourlisteners and if you've enjoyed
the show, we look forward togetting a review from you and,
of course, tell your friends andjoin us again for the next
edition of the Public RelationsReview Podcast.
Announcer (30:23):
This podcast is produced by Communication
Strategies, an award-winningpublic relations and public
affairs firm headquartered inNashville, Tennessee.
Thank you for joining us.
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