February 24, 2025 • 45 mins
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Announcer (00:03):
Welcome.
This is the Public RelationsReview Podcast, a program to
discuss the many facets ofpublic relations with seasoned
professionals, educators,authors and others.
Now here is your host, peterWoolfolk.
Peter Woolfolk (00:23):
Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast
and to our listeners all acrossAmerica and around the world.
Now this podcast is ranked byApple among the top 1% of
podcasts worldwide, so let mesay thank you to all of our
guests and listeners for beingthe basis for this ranking and,
of course, if you enjoy thepodcast, we'd certainly like to
get a review from you.
(00:43):
Now question for the audience.
It's now 2025.
What are some important trendsin public relations you should
be aware of?
Well, my guess is five trendsshe has determined that should
be on your radar.
She has a distinguished 15-yearcareer in strategic
communications, digitalmarketing and publicity event.
Now, add to that, she is also adoctoral candidate at liberty
(01:07):
university, pursuing herdoctorate in strategic media
communications.
Further, she was also anational chair for the public
relations society of america'sentertainment and sports
executive committee, and she isalso linked to many other
organizations.
So joining me today, all theway from austin te, texas, is
Brandi Sims, founder and CEO ofBrand Inc PR and the host of the
(01:30):
Brand Inc podcast.
So, brandi, welcome to thepodcast.
Brandi Sims (01:35):
Thank you for having me and I love that intro.
I really appreciate it.
Peter Woolfolk (01:39):
Well, I always try to read it so I make sure I
have it right and give everybodyan understanding of who the
talent is going to be on theshow.
Well, I always try to read itso I make sure I have it right
and, you know, give everybody anunderstanding of who you know
the talent is going to be on theshow.
Brandi Sims (01:49):
Well, absolutely Well, you definitely didn't
skimp on mine, so I appreciateit.
Peter Woolfolk (01:53):
Okay, well now, basically, this came about
because I read in PRSA's openforum maybe a week or so, over a
week ago, that you had invitedpeople to listen to your podcast
about the five trends that yousee developing for 2025.
And, as a result, I reached outto you to come on our podcast
to talk about what those trendswere.
Brandi Sims (02:15):
Absolutely Well, definitely happy to do that and
and so glad that you saw thatpost.
But yes, I wanted to share justsome helpful insight and an
awareness into some of thetrends that are happening within
the PR and communicationsindustry this year and just kind
of a future look how things aregoing to continue on, just
(02:36):
based on the trajectory.
But yes, there are five top PRtrends that I wanted to share
that professionals should be onthe lookout for and should be on
the watch for.
Starting with the first one Ireally wanted to focus on how
are we learning about the medialandscape now as it stands, with
(02:57):
the inclusion of new technologyas well as newer platforms, and
my first trend to watch out foris media pros turning into
content creators.
So one thing that we've observedjust in the last few years is
that there has been asignificant increase of layoffs
with media professionals fromreporters, journalists and
(03:18):
traditional media outlets.
We've seen a rise in thelayoffs of those in their
positions and because of this,now we're seeing almost a shift
from those traditional mediaoutlets to them choosing to
create their own platforms andactually capitalize on their own
opportunities by creating theirown platform, whether it be a
(03:41):
newsletter.
I know many people are familiarwith Substacks.
That has been a primary drivingsource for former media
journalists, reporters, etcetera to create their own
separate platform and generatetheir own fan base and audience,
as they're doing their owncontent and really independent
content creation.
(04:01):
So this is a trend that we'reabsolutely looking at and we're
seeing more of a shift of ofmedia pros that are choosing to
become content creators in andof itself and on their own by
developing their own platformsthat have garnered their own
separate attention outside of atraditional media outlet source
quick question now.
Peter Woolfolk (04:21):
Have you noticed , though, whether there's any
particular of the size of it?
Is it more TV reporters, radioreporters, print reporters or a
combination thereof?
Brandi Sims (04:30):
So there's definitely a decrease in all of
the above.
There's not as many journalistsand reporters that are available
to report on the news, whetherit be from radio, print or
television.
There's just not that many toreport on these things and so,
in turn, they're becoming moreselective of the stories that
they choose to cover.
There is a talent, almostcelebrity angle, but I think
(04:53):
that's always existed.
I think it's just getting alittle bit more honed in because
there's only so many reportersto report on certain news, so
they're incredibly selective onwhat they choose to allow on the
platform.
So it definitely is going to beone where they're looking for
stories that are going to getmore eyeballs watching or
reading about it, as well asmore listeners that are going to
(05:15):
tune in for it.
So they're definitely trying toget the most bang for their
buck, if you will, but with that, because there's only so many
of them, you also have to thinkof the caveat of delay offs
existing and decreasing thoseemployment opportunities for
them.
So there's almost like thispush and shift into digital
platforms that are kind offorcing those journalists and
(05:37):
reporters to adapt and they'veadapted pretty successfully, I
would say if they've createdtheir own platforms, created
their own subscribers and theirown brand awareness in and of
itself and actually developing asignificant following that has
resulted in monetization ontheir own.
Peter Woolfolk (05:55):
Well, you know, one of the things that I've
noticed sort of supplement whatyou said I've actually had
several former have been acombination of both print,
particularly television, folksthat have actually started their
own public relations firms I'veinterviewed several of them.
One, as a matter of fact, wrotea great book about it.
I had her on Ann Page, Ibelieve it is.
She was on sometime last yearor so and she seems to be doing
(06:18):
seemingly well.
So I mean, I can certainlysupport the fact that you've got
media pros making theconversion.
Brandi Sims (06:24):
Absolutely.
I agree wholeheartedly.
You know, I think it's greatthat journalists and reporters
are deciding to almost takematters into their own hands and
not just kind of be left tofall with the ship right.
They're looking atopportunities, they're being
adaptable and they're findingways to help and assist business
(06:45):
owners and consumers with thevery thing that they deal with,
which is communication.
So I think it's great.
I love to see more media prosshifting and transitioning into
PR.
I think that PR and journalismin and of itself are very in
line with one another.
You PR, there is no journalist.
(07:06):
Without journalists, there isno PR.
We're all very much working onthe same sheet of music.
So it makes sense for theproper transition to be for
those that decide to do this iscreate their own agency where
they can continue to sharestories, compelling, interesting
stories that help to fosterawareness and growth on behalf
of their clientele.
(07:27):
So I'm all for it.
Peter Woolfolk (07:28):
Well, I support you and I certainly tip my hat
to you for making this.
You know, just raising thevisibility of this taking place.
I sure appreciate that.
So what's number two for you?
Brandi Sims (07:40):
Yes, yes, okay.
So then number two.
So we talked about media proskind of turning into content
creators.
The second one is really afocus on the technology side of
things and I'm specificallysharing that.
I believe that there's going tobe a dial back on AI and, more
specifically, chat GPT.
So now, while there's somefolks that are just getting hit
(08:04):
the chat GPT and the use of AIin terms of productivity and
growth within their businesses,others have been using this
quite some time.
I mean I can say that our agencyat Branding PR, we adopted AI
very early on at the start ofthe agency, around 2020.
So we had already beenutilizing it, teaching on it, as
(08:24):
well as incorporating it intoour own tools and resources to
help improve that productivityand efficiency within the
business.
So we had already been doing it, but there's some that you know
it took a little bit longer toadapt and now we're seeing kind
of the result of that.
So why I believe that there isgoing to be a dial back in the
youth of this is consumers arestarting to recognize what is an
(08:49):
AI quote, unquote driven postand what is an authentic human
driven content that's beingshared here.
So, for example, you know we'veall seen the post where it
starts with exciting news,thrilling news.
Well, let's just be real.
Not everything is verythrilling and not everything is
always exciting.
(09:10):
There is some exciting news,don't get me wrong, but not
every time is it exciting news.
Every week you have excitingnews.
Every day you have excitingnews.
It gets old and it's kind of apart of the blueprint and
framework of chat GPT and it'san easy indicator that you're
using that to replace actual,real content.
So what I think in 2025 is thatwe're going to see a dial back
(09:32):
by brand small business ownersof the use of chat GPT because,
slowly but surely, becoming thatthing where, okay, I see you
guys aren't really authentic.
You just plugged it into ChatGPT.
It spit out what you wanted.
You didn't even tailor ittowards your brand, you just
kind of copy-paste it, in whichcase you're not a brand that I
want to identify with orassociate with, because I look
(09:55):
for authentic brands, I look forbrands that speak to me.
This is kind of what's comingfrom the consumers.
So, because of that, you'regoing to see the dial back of
folks really being intentionalin its use of ChatGPT, and that
is.
It's a tool.
It's simply that it's not areplacement.
Very, very important to beaware of that.
(10:16):
It is simply a tool.
But also, as you're using thistool, just make sure that you
are not only aware that it isjust a tool, but also that
you're still bringing the trueauthenticity of your brand out
of your communication and yourmessaging when you're using
these types of platforms andtools well, let me say I
certainly, you know, tip my hatto you for that, because I
(10:37):
certainly do use chat GPT.
Peter Woolfolk (10:40):
but one of the things once it gives me
basically what I've asked for,then I take a look at it and
then I start making adjustmentsto it so it sounds like me and
can add the specifics on it thatit lacks, that it doesn't have
the information that I have, butmake sure that's included in
there.
So for more, for me it's a timesaver.
I don't have to sit down andthink of a lot of things, just
(11:02):
crank out the basics for me.
I'll take it from here and plugthis in, change that and leave
this out altogether.
You know, make thosemodifications so that it fits
exactly to what it is I'mlooking for.
Brandi Sims (11:14):
Absolutely Well.
You're absolutely using it theright way.
You know.
You recognize very early on,too, that it's very much just a
tool.
You don't want it to becomethis thing, that it replaces
your own thoughts, your owninsight, your own expertise.
It needs to be something thatcan help simply with the
efficiency of getting the workdone.
So definitely use AI sparingly.
(11:36):
Always incorporate your uniqueperspective to make sure that
your stuff stands out.
I think is the biggest takeawayfor number two.
Peter Woolfolk (11:45):
Well, I certainly appreciate that,
because you're absolutely right.
Chad GBT is a time saver, butit should not become you or
represent you.
It's just helping you save timegetting done what you need to
get done.
Brandi Sims (11:59):
Absolutely I can't agree more to get done.
Absolutely I can't agree more.
So that's definitely one thatwe'll start to see more and more
brands as they're buildingtheir communication along.
You're going to start to seemore of those authentic, human
driven types of content becausethey want to resonate with
consumers and not resonate.
(12:19):
You can't resonate with a robot.
You need to resonate with ahuman and we want to resonate
with a human, we can.
So that's the way to go aboutit is focusing on that
human-driven content, not somuch the robotic responses that
we've unfortunately kind ofgrown accustomed to the last few
years.
Peter Woolfolk (12:37):
Well, in addition to that, though,
depending upon the audienceyou're dealing with, I mean,
there might be some culturalissues, there might be some ways
of going about things or sayingcertain things, and if you
overlook that you know you'reabsolutely right you can
basically harm what it is you'retrying to get done simply
because you're trying to speedit up, but in the process of
speeding up you actually missedthe target.
(12:58):
So I certainly agree with you,you know, put it to your
advantage, but don't let it skewwho you are.
Brandi Sims (13:07):
It's something that it reinforces the importance of
that true authenticity.
You have to bring that forthanytime you're dealing with
brain communications and content.
That's at the pinnacle and thesource of it all is what is our
story that we're wanting to telland how can we bring about our
best self each time that we tellthis story?
(13:29):
And that starts with justgetting real about it and being
honest about it.
But yes, the tool is there.
It's there to help you, it'sthere to polish, but it's also
there to remind you of howimportant that your authenticity
is cleared completely throughthe way and that you are
reinforcing this every time thatyou're using this.
(13:50):
Tailor it, clip it, you know,edit it, update it.
You know, one of the thingsthat chat always shares whenever
you're submitting any type ofprompt is make sure that you
tailor it towards your languageor tailor it towards your goal
or your angle, and I thinkthat's still a very, very
important thing, and I'm gladthat it's still on there to
(14:12):
remind folks that you know thisis here to help you, but at the
same time, you definitely stillwant to tailor and shape this
language to yourself.
That makes sense for youraudience, absolutely.
Peter Woolfolk (14:23):
Let me just add to that.
It's just interesting that youbrought that up, because we just
did an episode on storytellingand one of the things that came
out of that the important thingis you've got to be authentic
and connect with your audience,because if you don't, your
audience could be verysuspicious and might start to do
a U-turn on you, verysuspicious, and might start to
(14:47):
do a U-turn on you.
Brandi Sims (14:48):
Oh yes, and you see it all the time.
I'm sure you've seen thecampaigns where audience members
will really turn on thesebrands that they love, all for
poor storytelling or, you know,a misfire in the communications.
But I mean, you're exactlyright.
You know you can lose out andreally really good followers,
fans and consumers of your brandby simply taking, I would say,
(15:11):
even the easy way out of justthe copy paste Well, what's been
done before?
Let me just go and do that sowe can get it done and check the
box to say that we've done it,and it's going to end up causing
you more harm than good bydoing it this way.
Be intentional about yourcommunication, be intentional
about your usage of this newtech, software and tools and be
(15:32):
intentional about your brand andthe overall vision.
Your communication flows fromit.
So when you show upauthentically, people will
gravitate towards that quickerthan they will someone that's
being inauthentic anddisingenuous.
Peter Woolfolk (15:46):
Well, let me tip my hat to you for bringing that
to everyone's attention, andobviously you've got number
three here, so this is anotherone that folks need to pay
attention to.
Brandi Sims (15:57):
Yes, yes, absolutely, yes, yes, absolutely
.
So the next one that we have asfar as PR trends to watch for
2025, is we're going to see moreonline media collaboration.
So oftentimes, you know and I'msure you can say the same
dealing with clients, you know,there's always this sigh of
(16:17):
goodness when we're talkingabout okay, so these are the
media outlets we're going toreach out to.
We're going to mix traditionalmedia as well as digital, and
everyone's all excited whenwe're talking about radio and
television appearances ornewspaper or magazines.
So, when we get to podcasts andblogs, we often hear the oh
gosh, you know those littlethings or those little platforms
(16:40):
.
Well, let's just be honestthese aren't little platforms
anymore.
I read a report and studyrecently that showed that it
actually was the Nielsen reportfor this year.
It actually showed that 60% ofconsumers use and rely on social
media, and specifically digitalmedia, as their source of news
(17:03):
information.
So they rely on it 60%.
It's the first time it's everbeen this high, and it's
actually over the percentage ofindividuals that still rely on
traditional media as their newssource.
So, just to kind of break itdown, 60% of people said that I
look to social media to find outwhat's happening in the world,
(17:23):
versus about 53% are stilllooking for the newspaper or
looking for television to letthem know what's going on in the
world.
That's a huge thing.
So we have 60% of people thatare saying that social media and
digital platforms are wherethey're finding out about their
news.
That's a huge thing.
So we can't dismiss and act likedigital media isn't a source of
(17:46):
information or a source forpeople to tune into.
They are already tuning in.
So, with that being said, thisis going to require many brands
if they haven't done so alreadywhich I mean goodness, why
haven't you?
But this is going to requirethem to really adopt and adapt
to using and being on podcasts,blogs, digital media as a part
(18:11):
of their media collaborations.
There's not any more time towaste not being on there.
I think of the example of morerecently, there was a podcast
called or, it really is apodcast, it's still active
called Call Her Daddy, whoactually secured a $30 million
deal with Sirius FM it's thehighest deal that's ever been
(18:35):
recorded in history for podcastsand was able to secure this
because they were receivingmulti-millions in listeners and
viewers in each episode thatthey were recording.
So they have a huge, hugefollowing of both listeners and
viewers that were tuning intothis to be able to secure that
deal.
So we got to go and askourselves you know, are we
(18:58):
really still in the space of?
Oh, online media platformsaren't serious?
We can't be, because whythey're booming?
They're booming and this is anopportunity for brands to really
hone in and collaborate andfind more opportunities with
media platforms that are online.
It's definitely not enoughanymore to just be on
traditional media because, as Imentioned before in that data
(19:20):
report, people aren't looking atthe traditional media the same
way that they were 20 years agoheck, even 10, even five years
ago.
They are leaning more towardsthese digital platforms.
So we have to make a concertedeffort to be engaging on these
platforms, otherwise we risk,you know, falling by the wayside
(19:40):
.
Peter Woolfolk (19:41):
Well you know one of the things that Well, you
know, one of the things that Icertainly you know.
Salute you for saying that.
The one thing that I alwaysadvise people to do, of course,
is when they're using orlistening to information off the
internet or other digitalplatforms, consider the source,
because there's also so muchmisinformation that's being put
out there and if you have someconcerns, I would double-check
(20:03):
the information.
Go to sources you know arereliable to double-check what's
being said, because foreigncountries are doing it to us,
we're doing it to each otheraround the country and those
sort of things.
Brandi Sims (20:16):
So certainly consider the source before you
jump up and go take some actions, because you heard it on
somebody, somebody's podcast oh,absolutely, and I'm so glad
that you mentioned that, becausethere is that caveat right that
now we're dealing with moremisinformation and
disinformation when you'redealing with online uh media and
platforms.
(20:36):
And it's largely because, again, again, new media is still
fairly new.
It's only been about 20 to 30years.
It's still fairly new and a lotof the typical requirements for
media don't apply to socialmedia and blogs and so on and so
forth.
They don't really fall underthe same requirements like, say,
(20:57):
your code of ethics forjournalism or your code of
ethics in terms of communication.
They don't fall under that.
So therefore, there is a lot ofroom for journalism or your
code of ethics in terms ofcommunication.
They don't fall under that.
So therefore, there is a lot ofroom for error with them.
So you definitely need to bevery, very careful in the blogs,
in the platforms that youchoose to be on.
In terms of online media, evenmore recently, just in this last
week and a half, meta, which iskind of the conglomerate of
(21:21):
Facebook and Instagram,announced that they would no
longer be fact-checking, sothat's going to open the door
for a slew of, I would think,misinformation and
disinformation without penalty.
So we're going to see whatthat's going to look like, but I
would largely kind of expect tosee more polarizing content,
more divisive content, as theykind of navigate the lack of
(21:45):
fact-checking, which is going toopen the door to even more
issues.
But I anticipate that it'sgoing to be interesting in this
next couple of months.
Now that they've kind of takenaway the parameters and filters
for disinformation, it'sdefinitely going to set the
stage for even biggerconversations.
We'll probably need a follow-up, honestly, peter.
Peter Woolfolk (22:05):
Well, you know, I think one of the things that's
going to happen is that,somehow or another, folks are
going to too many people aregoing to respond to some
misinformation the wrong way orhave some problems from it and,
as a result of that, when itreally starts to explode, then
people will start to say hey,wait a minute, let's get back to
what you know.
How you guys particularly, asyou said, facebook and others
(22:26):
like that you know, somebody hasgot to make sure that what
we're being given is accurateand is not dangerous or
inflammatory or something alongthose lines.
So I think, by them taking thatparticular guard fence down,
it's going to cause someproblems and those problems,
sooner or later, are going tocome back to bite them.
Brandi Sims (22:44):
I agree wholeheartedly.
It's going to be interesting tosee it.
But you're exactly right.
You know, when we don't havethese safeguards and perimeters
in place, it does make room fora lot of error and a lot of
crisis.
So it'll be really interestingto see how this navigates moving
forward and how really wenavigate moving forward.
I think, more importantly, forthose that are brand owners or
(23:05):
small business owners, I thinkthe biggest thing for this
particular group is just to bevery intentional again about
your content and yourinformation.
Just because there's no factcheck doesn't mean that people
won't fact check you when you'resharing information and you're
(23:25):
sharing content on theseplatforms, because you could end
up in a huge, huge crisis andbacklash in terms of your own
fans and followers because youmisappropriated information or
you provided misinformation andyou get called out.
I've seen too many brands thatI can count that have got caught
(23:47):
up with, you know, using afalse narrative or a false claim
and quickly being checked aboutit by their own consumers and
experiencing significantbacklash for it.
So you know, without thesesafeguards and perimeters, it's
really going to be up to thesebrands to make a true concerted
effort to make sure and verifyyour sources, your information
(24:10):
before you share it on theseplatforms.
Otherwise, you're going to bein big trouble in terms of
crisis situations.
Moving forward.
Peter Woolfolk (24:19):
You know, I was just going to say that because
crisis communications is a hugeissue too and unfortunately a
lot of firms just don't know howto handle that properly issue
too, and unfortunately a lot offirms just don't know how to
handle that properly.
And you, know putting out a fireis not as easy as you think,
particularly if it's somethingthat's been said over the
internet.
Now you've got something that'sgoing outside of your
neighborhood or your state orwhatever, and you've got a
(24:41):
problem much bigger than youthought you had, and it probably
might cost you dearly to try toresolve it.
So, as you said, be careful,consider the source.
It's probably the best way oflooking at something like that.
Brandi Sims (24:53):
You're so right.
Consider that source proactiveas you're considering the source
.
That's part of that.
Peter Woolfolk (24:59):
I agree with you .
So, why don't we considernumber four now?
Brandi Sims (25:05):
Oh, yes, yes.
Let's consider number four,which is kind of getting into
more partnerships.
You know we talked about onlinemedia collaborations and seeing
more of that.
I think in this next yearthere's going to be more
creative brand partnerships andwe saw examples of this in the
previous year.
Using the example of theDeadpool versus Wolverine movie
(25:26):
marketing campaign, which is oneof my favorite ones of last
year, we saw an example of howyou can use very unconventional
brand collaborations to hone inon your messaging but also
amplify your messaging.
We saw this movie combine andwork with brands like Heinz and
Heinz ketchup and mustard to beable to generate the buzz and
(25:49):
the attention that they werelooking for.
But we also saw partnershipswith apparel.
We saw partnerships andcollaborations with podcasts,
which kind of just mentionedthat in the previous example of
just more of an increase oflarger brands tapping into those
online media sources, of largerbrands tapping into those
(26:11):
online media sources.
So definitely thinking of thesecreative brand partnerships are
going to be a thing to watchfor in 2025.
You're going to see a lot ofunconventional partnerships, a
lot of thinking outside of thebox, but these are going to help
amplify these messages evenforward just in a very, very
different way than they've donein the past, which is going to
make all the difference and it'skind of part of why we saw such
(26:32):
a success, especially in thebox office for this movie.
I think they raised well over$100 billion in this film and
the same thing with even anothermore recent one with Wicked.
We saw a lot of unconventionalbrand partnerships take place
here that typically theywouldn't work with or they
(26:52):
wouldn't partner with, but therewere several viral moments of
the stars of the show thatappeared on podcasts in the same
news cycle and media cycle thatthey would typically do with
traditional media for an entirePR rollout.
So there's definitely going tobe more of that concerted effort
to be creative with the typesof brands that are being
(27:14):
partnered with and aligning with.
As well as that, more diverseonline platforms being added
into the mix of PR rolloutsalongside traditional media.
That is totally, totallyunconventional, but absolutely
well worth it and certainlyamplifying those messages.
Peter Woolfolk (27:33):
Well, you know, the movies have been doing that
for a long time.
Television as well.
When you got to see a certainbrands up close, you could
actually see what the name isCoca Cola or Dr Pepper or Heinz
ketchup, those kinds of things.
So there was a little bit of aforerunner for those kinds of
things happening, and it'sgetting carried over to the
(27:54):
digital age now as well.
Brandi Sims (27:56):
Yes, oh, 100%.
You know, it's almost like arecycle of history, right, and
I'm sure you can speak to thisvery well is a lot of the times.
You know, there's the ebbs andflows.
It's almost a pendulum swing, Ishould really say.
You know, first we see a lot ofcreative and then we just kind
of see it pulled back, and nowwe're swinging back into what's
(28:18):
outside of the box, what's justvery different or an unexpected
partnership that would actuallymake sense for what it is that
we're doing and what we'reoffering, and we're seeing more
and more of that.
Now.
I think the biggest takeaway isthat you're seeing bigger
brands do this which typicallywas almost reserved for the
smaller guys, right, those viralmoments, those TikTok business
(28:40):
owners, so to speak.
You saw them doing kind ofthose unconventional types of
brand partnerships.
Well, now, it's no longer justthem.
Those unconventional types ofbrand partnerships Well, now,
it's no longer just them.
Now we're seeing some of thebig guys taking on that same
almost grassroots effort in.
Yeah, we're going to check thebox of all of our traditional
media.
We'll do the TV interview,We'll hop on the radio, we'll
stop by and get a quote in thislocal newspaper or magazine, but
(29:05):
we're also going to add inthose viral moments on these
podcasts that have greatfollowing.
We're also going to add inthose viral moments on these
podcasts that have greatfollowing.
We're also going to add inthose brand collaborations that
are just different and uniquebut speak to what it is that our
brand is doing.
Those are the types of thingsthat, as again the pendulum is
swinging, the more out of thebox the better, but making sure
(29:26):
that it's aligned with themessaging and the overall vision
of a true rollout, absolutely.
Peter Woolfolk (29:32):
Well, I certainly agree with you again
because, as I said, people wantto do something that works.
What role is it that we havenot traveled yet, that we see
other people using, and how canwe make it work to our advantage
?
We make it work to ouradvantage.
So you know, that combinationof print media and digital media
and digital outlets certainlyworks well together when it
(29:55):
benefits all parties involved.
Brandi Sims (29:57):
Oh, yes, yes, and I think that's the approach that
every business owner or brandowner should be looking for is
how do we create theseout-of-box experiences and
partnerships that make sense forour endgame right, our endgame,
our result?
What is it that we're lookingfor and what do we need it to do
?
And that's where you'll findthe success and the results that
(30:19):
you're looking for, just likethese movies that have broken
box office goals in a time where, I think just a couple of years
ago, they were very concernedabout.
Is the box office going torecover?
Is movie theater is going tostill be a thing in a couple of
years?
Well, these two movies have justproven absolutely there is
going to still be a need andthere's still a goal for that
(30:42):
entertainment and excitementabout the entertainment.
It's just the way that it'smarketed and it's just the way
that it's marketed and it's justthe way that the PR approach
has had to adapt in order tokeep engaging that audience.
And obviously they were able todo this successfully and get
some very, very good resultsthat have broken records and
really set the stage for thefuture of cinema.
Peter Woolfolk (31:06):
Well, you know, the other thing too, and
probably the basic thing, is themovie.
Is it worth going to?
see, because you know we havenot seen.
You know Tom Cruise, you knowhis movies, you know they just
break box office records allaround the world.
So getting involved insomething like that is fine.
I think I forget one of theactors had some movie about his
(31:27):
life.
I'm not sure five people evenshowed up to see it.
So you have to be careful aboutwhat it is.
It's not so much who the actorwas, but what's the story about,
what's the movie about?
So you have to have people whoknow what they're doing to get
you involved in it and beprepared to pay for it.
Brandi Sims (31:46):
Oh, absolutely.
You need to have a budget.
You know all of this doesn'tjust magically appear, even
these viral moments.
Everyone that has gone viralcan tell you there was a lot of
work that went into play forthat viral moment to even happen
.
So you've got to have a budgetand you have to have a plan and
a strategy approach that iseffective, that is going to get
(32:08):
you that result that you'relooking for.
But you're so right, you knowthese don't happen with no
budget.
You know you've got to bewilling to invest.
I'm just saying they didn't popup with a $100 billion.
You know, box office weekend byplaying small, just saying.
Peter Woolfolk (32:25):
Brandon, that was great.
So number five what do we gotfor number five?
Brandi Sims (32:30):
Yes, yes.
Well, so for number five, ourfinal one is just seeing an
evolution of speakingengagements.
So this one was reallyinteresting because I had kind
of personally observed and alsojust kind of connecting with my
colleagues as well as justlooking into the PR market and
industry insights, and one thingI found is that speaking
(32:52):
engagements have really made atransition from just being that
informal outreach where you knowyou can send a cold email or a
cold pitch or just stop by andsay, hey, you know, I've got
somebody great for you, and thenyou're able to secure these
bookings, and it's shifted fromthat to now.
It's a very structured packagethat we're seeing and, more
(33:14):
specifically, we're seeing a lotof those in the speaker market
almost deciding to package itinto more of a sponsorship
aspect that benefits both thebusiness and the individual
that's involved.
So this is one that's making itand really what I'll say is
this is that there are becomingmore and more speakers and I
(33:38):
think you've seen it too, peter.
There are more and morespeakers, more qualified, great
speakers that are just kind ofcoming out of the woodwork, and
I love it.
I think it's great, if you havea talent and a skill, to be a
communicator and communicateyour message effectively on
stage.
I think it's fantastic.
We need more of them.
However, because there's such arise of it, it's become very,
(33:59):
very competitive in this market.
So the traditional ways thatyou would typically find
speaking engagements andopportunities it's almost sort
of transitioning out of that andgetting even more competitive,
in that now there's actuallypackages, now there's actually a
submission form or submissionbasis.
Of course, these things havealways existed between some
(34:20):
events, but I'm seeing it moreand more in trends that more
events are saying, hey, you needto gain more experience or you
want to elevate your profile andwe need a speaker and we need
somebody.
That's good.
So how can we couple this in sowe kind of both get what we're
looking for?
That's where this is coming inis.
(34:40):
We're seeing the evolution ofspeaking engagements becoming
not so much the cold pitch.
You know, you send out your bioor a clip of, you know, your
speaking engagement and you'vekind of gotten a way into the
door and we're seeing thattransition from that to now.
Okay, they want a speakerpackage or they're looking for
(35:01):
something that aligns withalmost their sponsorship and
marketing promotion.
That kind of equally benefitsyou both.
So that is something that isdefinitely a trend to watch in
2025.
I see a rise in this kind ofapproach as more events are
looking for high quality, highimpact speakers, but at the same
(35:22):
time they're raising funds forthis event.
They're also looking for kindof that sponsorship touch.
They're raising funds for thisevent.
They're also looking for kindof that sponsorship touch.
I see it kind of almost gettingcoupled more into that
sponsorship feel.
As we're moving along, that'sdefinitely going to be slimming
down who and what is going to beselected for speaking
opportunities moving forward.
Peter Woolfolk (35:42):
Well, let me say that I'm one of those people
thinking about looking into it,maybe sometime next year, not
only because of the podcast, butI've been in public relations
for around 30 years.
I've done some public speakingat the senior levels.
When I was at the US Departmentof Education, the Clinton
administration and I would speakto large.
You know we're talking aboutthose national events that maybe
(36:06):
600, 700 people come to or moreand have a chance to speak
there.
So speaking is notuncomfortable for me, having
been in radio and television.
I've done that before andobviously the podcast now.
But also I've been invitedseveral times to speak to PRSA
students, probably around 10universities around the country.
I mean, they've all beendigital, but the fact is that
(36:29):
you're still speaking to them.
So that's something I will beexploring a little bit more in
depth next year.
Brandi Sims (36:36):
And I think with your expertise and your
experience, you're going to govery far with that, but I'm sure
you don't need me saying that.
You already know it right.
So, with that being said, Ithink it's very important that
speakers now that are coming outand say you know, I want to do
full-time speaking engagementsor you know, offer that as a
service or an opportunity.
(36:57):
Here, I think the biggest thingis that it reinforces the
importance of having a reallycompelling presentation and a
really compelling pitch to speakon behalf of your, speaking
Once again.
the speaker market is growing.
It is growing and more and morepeople are kind of coming out
and saying, oh, I'm a speakereven with very minimal speaking
(37:20):
experience or opportunities,right.
So more and more are coming outand we're all competing against
the same thing is to find theopportunity.
So what's gonna help you standout?
It's your expertise because,that expertise is very much
coupled into your credibility asa speaker and then, of course,
the overall visual.
(37:41):
What is the compelling natureof your presentation.
That is what's gonna really setyou apart from the competition,
because if you already have theexpertise almost taken miles
ahead of your competitionbecause I can tell you just an
experience a lot of folks thatwill have reach out even to us,
(38:02):
while of course their intentionsare are, I totally get it, it's
probably pure.
But you know they come in andthey're expecting okay, well,
you know, I'm a speaker todayand we want you guys to find us
all these speaking engagementseven though we don't have any
experience.
Well, I'm probably not, guys,to find us all these speaking
engagements even though we don'thave any experience.
Well, I'm probably not going tofind you a lot.
And if I do find you a lot,it's definitely not going to be
(38:24):
paid and it's not going to betens of thousands of dollars
that you thought you were goingto get out of this Absolutely
not.
It's going to be kind of a slowburn and build as you build up
the credibility as a speaker,because right now we don't even
have that as a leverage point.
So definitely what's going toreally set people apart is the
experienced speakers, theexperienced professionals within
(38:47):
their industry and craft thatare going to push and pave the
way to those opportunities andbe able to explore it much more
extensively than some of thenewer guys that are coming in
and deciding to add speaker totheir, to their roster and their
list.
You're definitely going to needto do get a little bit more
experience.
Experience and also considersome of those non-paid gigs and,
(39:11):
of course, the one that Imentioned in the beginning of
this, which is sponsorship,which is something that a lot of
events I've found have startedto do, is they're offering
sponsorship as a way in for youto get your experience, but also
they get a sponsor for theirevent.
So it's kind of a mutuallybeneficial kind of play there.
(39:33):
But you know, depending on whatyour budget is, it may not be
in alignment kind of play there.
But you know, depending on whatyour budget is, it may not be
in alignment.
I can tell you I've worked witha very, very well-known media
conglomerate for years and oneof the speaker quote unquote
sponsorships was close to$40,000.
And so you know you have to askyourself if you're willing to
(39:54):
spend that much on, you know,just being seen to be able to
participate in an event.
Why are we not considering PRand communication as an
outsourcing, a consultant, orgetting some support to where
you can build upon thatexperience, instead of throwing
away $40,000 for just a one timeevent that you'll be seen at?
(40:15):
I mean, these are the questionswe've got to ask ourselves here
.
Peter Woolfolk (40:18):
Well, you know, one of the things that I think
about, as I said, particularlywhen I've been talking to
college students to grab theirattention.
My opening statement to them ishow does a guy like me, who got
kicked out of college twice,wind up working for the
President of the United States?
And I say what?
Brandi Sims (40:35):
Oh my God.
Peter Woolfolk (40:40):
How did that happen?
Well, I decided I didn't likeit.
Well, I liked the idea of beingcooked at school twice, but so
I had to buckle down and makesome serious changes about me.
And you know a lot of otherthings taking chances.
You know how to make thingshappen.
As I said, you know, the firsttime the Clinton people called
me, as I think I told you awhile back, I didn't know who he
was and so I didn't sign onwith him.
(41:02):
Then he went on to be president.
So I'm going to go to the courtand I'm done, and then how I
fix that.
So you know those kinds ofthings, the stories that I can
tell, that I think will engage alot of people in terms of, you
know, pursuing this thing ofspeaking engagements next year.
Now, I don't want to do it fulltime, but at least I certainly
want to have a go at it becauseI actually enjoy doing it.
Brandi Sims (41:24):
For sure.
Well, hey, you know, I alwaysgot your back.
So whenever you are ready for aspeaker circuit, I'm your girl.
Peter Woolfolk (41:32):
You know, I'm probably going to give you a
call on that too.
Brandi Sims (41:36):
Yes, yes, give me a call.
I'm always game, okay.
Peter Woolfolk (41:41):
So let me say, brandi, look, this has really
been an informative sessionwe've had here today and I
really want to say thank you forobviously taking the time to do
it.
But I'm certainly glad that youput that out there and I had
the opportunity to see it andthus invited you to the podcast
there, and I had the opportunityto see it and thus invited you
to the podcast, and I'm sure mylisteners were going to
appreciate very, very much aboutthe substance of the content
(42:02):
that we had today well, Iappreciate you so much for
having me on.
Brandi Sims (42:06):
This was so much fun and and definitely looking
forward to having more chatslike this in the future okay,
well, let me say once again myguest today is Brenda Sims.
Peter Woolfolk (42:14):
She is the CEO and founder of Brand Inc PR and
the host of the Brand Incpodcast, and you can find her on
regular podcast sites.
And I also want to say thankall of my listeners for
listening and if you've enjoyedthe podcast, we'd certainly like
to get a review from you andalso share this with your
friends.
And also don't forget to tuneinto the next edition of the
(42:35):
Public Relations Review podcastand also don't forget to tune
into the next edition of thePublic Relations Review Podcast.
Announcer (42:46):
This podcast is produced by Communication
Strategies, an award-winningpublic relations and public
affairs firm headquartered inNashville, Tennessee.
Thank you for joining us.
Welcome.
This is the Public RelationsReview Podcast, a program to
discuss the many facets ofpublic relations with seasoned
professionals, educators,authors and others.
Now here is your host, peterWoolfolk.
Peter Woolfolk (00:23):
Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast
and to our listeners all acrossAmerica and around the world.
Now this podcast is ranked byApple among the top 1% of
podcasts worldwide, so let mesay thank you to all of our
guests and listeners for beingthe basis for this ranking and,
of course, if you enjoy thepodcast, we'd certainly like to
get a review from you.
(00:43):
Now question for the audience.
It's now 2025.
What are some important trendsin public relations you should
be aware of?
Well, my guess is five trendsshe has determined that should
be on your radar.
She has a distinguished 15-yearcareer in strategic
communications, digitalmarketing and publicity event.
Now, add to that, she is also adoctoral candidate at liberty
(01:07):
university, pursuing herdoctorate in strategic media
communications.
Further, she was also anational chair for the public
relations society of america'sentertainment and sports
executive committee, and she isalso linked to many other
organizations.
So joining me today, all theway from austin te, texas, is
Brandi Sims, founder and CEO ofBrand Inc PR and the host of the
(01:30):
Brand Inc podcast.
So, brandi, welcome to thepodcast.
Brandi Sims (01:35):
Thank you for having me and I love that intro.
I really appreciate it.
Peter Woolfolk (01:39):
Well, I always try to read it so I make sure I
have it right and give everybodyan understanding of who the
talent is going to be on theshow.
Well, I always try to read itso I make sure I have it right
and, you know, give everybody anunderstanding of who you know
the talent is going to be on theshow.
Brandi Sims (01:49):
Well, absolutely Well, you definitely didn't
skimp on mine, so I appreciateit.
Peter Woolfolk (01:53):
Okay, well now, basically, this came about
because I read in PRSA's openforum maybe a week or so, over a
week ago, that you had invitedpeople to listen to your podcast
about the five trends that yousee developing for 2025.
And, as a result, I reached outto you to come on our podcast
to talk about what those trendswere.
Brandi Sims (02:15):
Absolutely Well, definitely happy to do that and
and so glad that you saw thatpost.
But yes, I wanted to share justsome helpful insight and an
awareness into some of thetrends that are happening within
the PR and communicationsindustry this year and just kind
of a future look how things aregoing to continue on, just
(02:36):
based on the trajectory.
But yes, there are five top PRtrends that I wanted to share
that professionals should be onthe lookout for and should be on
the watch for.
Starting with the first one Ireally wanted to focus on how
are we learning about the medialandscape now as it stands, with
(02:57):
the inclusion of new technologyas well as newer platforms, and
my first trend to watch out foris media pros turning into
content creators.
So one thing that we've observedjust in the last few years is
that there has been asignificant increase of layoffs
with media professionals fromreporters, journalists and
(03:18):
traditional media outlets.
We've seen a rise in thelayoffs of those in their
positions and because of this,now we're seeing almost a shift
from those traditional mediaoutlets to them choosing to
create their own platforms andactually capitalize on their own
opportunities by creating theirown platform, whether it be a
(03:41):
newsletter.
I know many people are familiarwith Substacks.
That has been a primary drivingsource for former media
journalists, reporters, etcetera to create their own
separate platform and generatetheir own fan base and audience,
as they're doing their owncontent and really independent
content creation.
(04:01):
So this is a trend that we'reabsolutely looking at and we're
seeing more of a shift of ofmedia pros that are choosing to
become content creators in andof itself and on their own by
developing their own platformsthat have garnered their own
separate attention outside of atraditional media outlet source
quick question now.
Peter Woolfolk (04:21):
Have you noticed , though, whether there's any
particular of the size of it?
Is it more TV reporters, radioreporters, print reporters or a
combination thereof?
Brandi Sims (04:30):
So there's definitely a decrease in all of
the above.
There's not as many journalistsand reporters that are available
to report on the news, whetherit be from radio, print or
television.
There's just not that many toreport on these things and so,
in turn, they're becoming moreselective of the stories that
they choose to cover.
There is a talent, almostcelebrity angle, but I think
(04:53):
that's always existed.
I think it's just getting alittle bit more honed in because
there's only so many reportersto report on certain news, so
they're incredibly selective onwhat they choose to allow on the
platform.
So it definitely is going to beone where they're looking for
stories that are going to getmore eyeballs watching or
reading about it, as well asmore listeners that are going to
(05:15):
tune in for it.
So they're definitely trying toget the most bang for their
buck, if you will, but with that, because there's only so many
of them, you also have to thinkof the caveat of delay offs
existing and decreasing thoseemployment opportunities for
them.
So there's almost like thispush and shift into digital
platforms that are kind offorcing those journalists and
(05:37):
reporters to adapt and they'veadapted pretty successfully, I
would say if they've createdtheir own platforms, created
their own subscribers and theirown brand awareness in and of
itself and actually developing asignificant following that has
resulted in monetization ontheir own.
Peter Woolfolk (05:55):
Well, you know, one of the things that I've
noticed sort of supplement whatyou said I've actually had
several former have been acombination of both print,
particularly television, folksthat have actually started their
own public relations firms I'veinterviewed several of them.
One, as a matter of fact, wrotea great book about it.
I had her on Ann Page, Ibelieve it is.
She was on sometime last yearor so and she seems to be doing
(06:18):
seemingly well.
So I mean, I can certainlysupport the fact that you've got
media pros making theconversion.
Brandi Sims (06:24):
Absolutely.
I agree wholeheartedly.
You know, I think it's greatthat journalists and reporters
are deciding to almost takematters into their own hands and
not just kind of be left tofall with the ship right.
They're looking atopportunities, they're being
adaptable and they're findingways to help and assist business
(06:45):
owners and consumers with thevery thing that they deal with,
which is communication.
So I think it's great.
I love to see more media prosshifting and transitioning into
PR.
I think that PR and journalismin and of itself are very in
line with one another.
You PR, there is no journalist.
(07:06):
Without journalists, there isno PR.
We're all very much working onthe same sheet of music.
So it makes sense for theproper transition to be for
those that decide to do this iscreate their own agency where
they can continue to sharestories, compelling, interesting
stories that help to fosterawareness and growth on behalf
of their clientele.
(07:27):
So I'm all for it.
Peter Woolfolk (07:28):
Well, I support you and I certainly tip my hat
to you for making this.
You know, just raising thevisibility of this taking place.
I sure appreciate that.
So what's number two for you?
Brandi Sims (07:40):
Yes, yes, okay.
So then number two.
So we talked about media proskind of turning into content
creators.
The second one is really afocus on the technology side of
things and I'm specificallysharing that.
I believe that there's going tobe a dial back on AI and, more
specifically, chat GPT.
So now, while there's somefolks that are just getting hit
(08:04):
the chat GPT and the use of AIin terms of productivity and
growth within their businesses,others have been using this
quite some time.
I mean I can say that our agencyat Branding PR, we adopted AI
very early on at the start ofthe agency, around 2020.
So we had already beenutilizing it, teaching on it, as
(08:24):
well as incorporating it intoour own tools and resources to
help improve that productivityand efficiency within the
business.
So we had already been doing it, but there's some that you know
it took a little bit longer toadapt and now we're seeing kind
of the result of that.
So why I believe that there isgoing to be a dial back in the
youth of this is consumers arestarting to recognize what is an
(08:49):
AI quote, unquote driven postand what is an authentic human
driven content that's beingshared here.
So, for example, you know we'veall seen the post where it
starts with exciting news,thrilling news.
Well, let's just be real.
Not everything is verythrilling and not everything is
always exciting.
(09:10):
There is some exciting news,don't get me wrong, but not
every time is it exciting news.
Every week you have excitingnews.
Every day you have excitingnews.
It gets old and it's kind of apart of the blueprint and
framework of chat GPT and it'san easy indicator that you're
using that to replace actual,real content.
So what I think in 2025 is thatwe're going to see a dial back
(09:32):
by brand small business ownersof the use of chat GPT because,
slowly but surely, becoming thatthing where, okay, I see you
guys aren't really authentic.
You just plugged it into ChatGPT.
It spit out what you wanted.
You didn't even tailor ittowards your brand, you just
kind of copy-paste it, in whichcase you're not a brand that I
want to identify with orassociate with, because I look
(09:55):
for authentic brands, I look forbrands that speak to me.
This is kind of what's comingfrom the consumers.
So, because of that, you'regoing to see the dial back of
folks really being intentionalin its use of ChatGPT, and that
is.
It's a tool.
It's simply that it's not areplacement.
Very, very important to beaware of that.
(10:16):
It is simply a tool.
But also, as you're using thistool, just make sure that you
are not only aware that it isjust a tool, but also that
you're still bringing the trueauthenticity of your brand out
of your communication and yourmessaging when you're using
these types of platforms andtools well, let me say I
certainly, you know, tip my hatto you for that, because I
(10:37):
certainly do use chat GPT.
Peter Woolfolk (10:40):
but one of the things once it gives me
basically what I've asked for,then I take a look at it and
then I start making adjustmentsto it so it sounds like me and
can add the specifics on it thatit lacks, that it doesn't have
the information that I have, butmake sure that's included in
there.
So for more, for me it's a timesaver.
I don't have to sit down andthink of a lot of things, just
(11:02):
crank out the basics for me.
I'll take it from here and plugthis in, change that and leave
this out altogether.
You know, make thosemodifications so that it fits
exactly to what it is I'mlooking for.
Brandi Sims (11:14):
Absolutely Well.
You're absolutely using it theright way.
You know.
You recognize very early on,too, that it's very much just a
tool.
You don't want it to becomethis thing, that it replaces
your own thoughts, your owninsight, your own expertise.
It needs to be something thatcan help simply with the
efficiency of getting the workdone.
So definitely use AI sparingly.
(11:36):
Always incorporate your uniqueperspective to make sure that
your stuff stands out.
I think is the biggest takeawayfor number two.
Peter Woolfolk (11:45):
Well, I certainly appreciate that,
because you're absolutely right.
Chad GBT is a time saver, butit should not become you or
represent you.
It's just helping you save timegetting done what you need to
get done.
Brandi Sims (11:59):
Absolutely I can't agree more to get done.
Absolutely I can't agree more.
So that's definitely one thatwe'll start to see more and more
brands as they're buildingtheir communication along.
You're going to start to seemore of those authentic, human
driven types of content becausethey want to resonate with
consumers and not resonate.
(12:19):
You can't resonate with a robot.
You need to resonate with ahuman and we want to resonate
with a human, we can.
So that's the way to go aboutit is focusing on that
human-driven content, not somuch the robotic responses that
we've unfortunately kind ofgrown accustomed to the last few
years.
Peter Woolfolk (12:37):
Well, in addition to that, though,
depending upon the audienceyou're dealing with, I mean,
there might be some culturalissues, there might be some ways
of going about things or sayingcertain things, and if you
overlook that you know you'reabsolutely right you can
basically harm what it is you'retrying to get done simply
because you're trying to speedit up, but in the process of
speeding up you actually missedthe target.
(12:58):
So I certainly agree with you,you know, put it to your
advantage, but don't let it skewwho you are.
Brandi Sims (13:07):
It's something that it reinforces the importance of
that true authenticity.
You have to bring that forthanytime you're dealing with
brain communications and content.
That's at the pinnacle and thesource of it all is what is our
story that we're wanting to telland how can we bring about our
best self each time that we tellthis story?
(13:29):
And that starts with justgetting real about it and being
honest about it.
But yes, the tool is there.
It's there to help you, it'sthere to polish, but it's also
there to remind you of howimportant that your authenticity
is cleared completely throughthe way and that you are
reinforcing this every time thatyou're using this.
(13:50):
Tailor it, clip it, you know,edit it, update it.
You know, one of the thingsthat chat always shares whenever
you're submitting any type ofprompt is make sure that you
tailor it towards your languageor tailor it towards your goal
or your angle, and I thinkthat's still a very, very
important thing, and I'm gladthat it's still on there to
(14:12):
remind folks that you know thisis here to help you, but at the
same time, you definitely stillwant to tailor and shape this
language to yourself.
That makes sense for youraudience, absolutely.
Peter Woolfolk (14:23):
Let me just add to that.
It's just interesting that youbrought that up, because we just
did an episode on storytellingand one of the things that came
out of that the important thingis you've got to be authentic
and connect with your audience,because if you don't, your
audience could be verysuspicious and might start to do
a U-turn on you, verysuspicious, and might start to
(14:47):
do a U-turn on you.
Brandi Sims (14:48):
Oh yes, and you see it all the time.
I'm sure you've seen thecampaigns where audience members
will really turn on thesebrands that they love, all for
poor storytelling or, you know,a misfire in the communications.
But I mean, you're exactlyright.
You know you can lose out andreally really good followers,
fans and consumers of your brandby simply taking, I would say,
(15:11):
even the easy way out of justthe copy paste Well, what's been
done before?
Let me just go and do that sowe can get it done and check the
box to say that we've done it,and it's going to end up causing
you more harm than good bydoing it this way.
Be intentional about yourcommunication, be intentional
about your usage of this newtech, software and tools and be
(15:32):
intentional about your brand andthe overall vision.
Your communication flows fromit.
So when you show upauthentically, people will
gravitate towards that quickerthan they will someone that's
being inauthentic anddisingenuous.
Peter Woolfolk (15:46):
Well, let me tip my hat to you for bringing that
to everyone's attention, andobviously you've got number
three here, so this is anotherone that folks need to pay
attention to.
Brandi Sims (15:57):
Yes, yes, absolutely, yes, yes, absolutely
.
So the next one that we have asfar as PR trends to watch for
2025, is we're going to see moreonline media collaboration.
So oftentimes, you know and I'msure you can say the same
dealing with clients, you know,there's always this sigh of
(16:17):
goodness when we're talkingabout okay, so these are the
media outlets we're going toreach out to.
We're going to mix traditionalmedia as well as digital, and
everyone's all excited whenwe're talking about radio and
television appearances ornewspaper or magazines.
So, when we get to podcasts andblogs, we often hear the oh
gosh, you know those littlethings or those little platforms
(16:40):
.
Well, let's just be honestthese aren't little platforms
anymore.
I read a report and studyrecently that showed that it
actually was the Nielsen reportfor this year.
It actually showed that 60% ofconsumers use and rely on social
media, and specifically digitalmedia, as their source of news
(17:03):
information.
So they rely on it 60%.
It's the first time it's everbeen this high, and it's
actually over the percentage ofindividuals that still rely on
traditional media as their newssource.
So, just to kind of break itdown, 60% of people said that I
look to social media to find outwhat's happening in the world,
(17:23):
versus about 53% are stilllooking for the newspaper or
looking for television to letthem know what's going on in the
world.
That's a huge thing.
So we have 60% of people thatare saying that social media and
digital platforms are wherethey're finding out about their
news.
That's a huge thing.
So we can't dismiss and act likedigital media isn't a source of
(17:46):
information or a source forpeople to tune into.
They are already tuning in.
So, with that being said, thisis going to require many brands
if they haven't done so alreadywhich I mean goodness, why
haven't you?
But this is going to requirethem to really adopt and adapt
to using and being on podcasts,blogs, digital media as a part
(18:11):
of their media collaborations.
There's not any more time towaste not being on there.
I think of the example of morerecently, there was a podcast
called or, it really is apodcast, it's still active
called Call Her Daddy, whoactually secured a $30 million
deal with Sirius FM it's thehighest deal that's ever been
(18:35):
recorded in history for podcastsand was able to secure this
because they were receivingmulti-millions in listeners and
viewers in each episode thatthey were recording.
So they have a huge, hugefollowing of both listeners and
viewers that were tuning intothis to be able to secure that
deal.
So we got to go and askourselves you know, are we
(18:58):
really still in the space of?
Oh, online media platformsaren't serious?
We can't be, because whythey're booming?
They're booming and this is anopportunity for brands to really
hone in and collaborate andfind more opportunities with
media platforms that are online.
It's definitely not enoughanymore to just be on
traditional media because, as Imentioned before in that data
(19:20):
report, people aren't looking atthe traditional media the same
way that they were 20 years agoheck, even 10, even five years
ago.
They are leaning more towardsthese digital platforms.
So we have to make a concertedeffort to be engaging on these
platforms, otherwise we risk,you know, falling by the wayside
(19:40):
.
Peter Woolfolk (19:41):
Well you know one of the things that Well, you
know, one of the things that Icertainly you know.
Salute you for saying that.
The one thing that I alwaysadvise people to do, of course,
is when they're using orlistening to information off the
internet or other digitalplatforms, consider the source,
because there's also so muchmisinformation that's being put
out there and if you have someconcerns, I would double-check
(20:03):
the information.
Go to sources you know arereliable to double-check what's
being said, because foreigncountries are doing it to us,
we're doing it to each otheraround the country and those
sort of things.
Brandi Sims (20:16):
So certainly consider the source before you
jump up and go take some actions, because you heard it on
somebody, somebody's podcast oh,absolutely, and I'm so glad
that you mentioned that, becausethere is that caveat right that
now we're dealing with moremisinformation and
disinformation when you'redealing with online uh media and
platforms.
(20:36):
And it's largely because, again, again, new media is still
fairly new.
It's only been about 20 to 30years.
It's still fairly new and a lotof the typical requirements for
media don't apply to socialmedia and blogs and so on and so
forth.
They don't really fall underthe same requirements like, say,
(20:57):
your code of ethics forjournalism or your code of
ethics in terms of communication.
They don't fall under that.
So therefore, there is a lot ofroom for journalism or your
code of ethics in terms ofcommunication.
They don't fall under that.
So therefore, there is a lot ofroom for error with them.
So you definitely need to bevery, very careful in the blogs,
in the platforms that youchoose to be on.
In terms of online media, evenmore recently, just in this last
week and a half, meta, which iskind of the conglomerate of
(21:21):
Facebook and Instagram,announced that they would no
longer be fact-checking, sothat's going to open the door
for a slew of, I would think,misinformation and
disinformation without penalty.
So we're going to see whatthat's going to look like, but I
would largely kind of expect tosee more polarizing content,
more divisive content, as theykind of navigate the lack of
(21:45):
fact-checking, which is going toopen the door to even more
issues.
But I anticipate that it'sgoing to be interesting in this
next couple of months.
Now that they've kind of takenaway the parameters and filters
for disinformation, it'sdefinitely going to set the
stage for even biggerconversations.
We'll probably need a follow-up, honestly, peter.
Peter Woolfolk (22:05):
Well, you know, I think one of the things that's
going to happen is that,somehow or another, folks are
going to too many people aregoing to respond to some
misinformation the wrong way orhave some problems from it and,
as a result of that, when itreally starts to explode, then
people will start to say hey,wait a minute, let's get back to
what you know.
How you guys particularly, asyou said, facebook and others
(22:26):
like that you know, somebody hasgot to make sure that what
we're being given is accurateand is not dangerous or
inflammatory or something alongthose lines.
So I think, by them taking thatparticular guard fence down,
it's going to cause someproblems and those problems,
sooner or later, are going tocome back to bite them.
Brandi Sims (22:44):
I agree wholeheartedly.
It's going to be interesting tosee it.
But you're exactly right.
You know, when we don't havethese safeguards and perimeters
in place, it does make room fora lot of error and a lot of
crisis.
So it'll be really interestingto see how this navigates moving
forward and how really wenavigate moving forward.
I think, more importantly, forthose that are brand owners or
(23:05):
small business owners, I thinkthe biggest thing for this
particular group is just to bevery intentional again about
your content and yourinformation.
Just because there's no factcheck doesn't mean that people
won't fact check you when you'resharing information and you're
(23:25):
sharing content on theseplatforms, because you could end
up in a huge, huge crisis andbacklash in terms of your own
fans and followers because youmisappropriated information or
you provided misinformation andyou get called out.
I've seen too many brands thatI can count that have got caught
(23:47):
up with, you know, using afalse narrative or a false claim
and quickly being checked aboutit by their own consumers and
experiencing significantbacklash for it.
So you know, without thesesafeguards and perimeters, it's
really going to be up to thesebrands to make a true concerted
effort to make sure and verifyyour sources, your information
(24:10):
before you share it on theseplatforms.
Otherwise, you're going to bein big trouble in terms of
crisis situations.
Moving forward.
Peter Woolfolk (24:19):
You know, I was just going to say that because
crisis communications is a hugeissue too and unfortunately a
lot of firms just don't know howto handle that properly issue
too, and unfortunately a lot offirms just don't know how to
handle that properly.
And you, know putting out a fireis not as easy as you think,
particularly if it's somethingthat's been said over the
internet.
Now you've got something that'sgoing outside of your
neighborhood or your state orwhatever, and you've got a
(24:41):
problem much bigger than youthought you had, and it probably
might cost you dearly to try toresolve it.
So, as you said, be careful,consider the source.
It's probably the best way oflooking at something like that.
Brandi Sims (24:53):
You're so right.
Consider that source proactiveas you're considering the source
.
That's part of that.
Peter Woolfolk (24:59):
I agree with you .
So, why don't we considernumber four now?
Brandi Sims (25:05):
Oh, yes, yes.
Let's consider number four,which is kind of getting into
more partnerships.
You know we talked about onlinemedia collaborations and seeing
more of that.
I think in this next yearthere's going to be more
creative brand partnerships andwe saw examples of this in the
previous year.
Using the example of theDeadpool versus Wolverine movie
(25:26):
marketing campaign, which is oneof my favorite ones of last
year, we saw an example of howyou can use very unconventional
brand collaborations to hone inon your messaging but also
amplify your messaging.
We saw this movie combine andwork with brands like Heinz and
Heinz ketchup and mustard to beable to generate the buzz and
(25:49):
the attention that they werelooking for.
But we also saw partnershipswith apparel.
We saw partnerships andcollaborations with podcasts,
which kind of just mentionedthat in the previous example of
just more of an increase oflarger brands tapping into those
online media sources, of largerbrands tapping into those
(26:11):
online media sources.
So definitely thinking of thesecreative brand partnerships are
going to be a thing to watchfor in 2025.
You're going to see a lot ofunconventional partnerships, a
lot of thinking outside of thebox, but these are going to help
amplify these messages evenforward just in a very, very
different way than they've donein the past, which is going to
make all the difference and it'skind of part of why we saw such
(26:32):
a success, especially in thebox office for this movie.
I think they raised well over$100 billion in this film and
the same thing with even anothermore recent one with Wicked.
We saw a lot of unconventionalbrand partnerships take place
here that typically theywouldn't work with or they
(26:52):
wouldn't partner with, but therewere several viral moments of
the stars of the show thatappeared on podcasts in the same
news cycle and media cycle thatthey would typically do with
traditional media for an entirePR rollout.
So there's definitely going tobe more of that concerted effort
to be creative with the typesof brands that are being
(27:14):
partnered with and aligning with.
As well as that, more diverseonline platforms being added
into the mix of PR rolloutsalongside traditional media.
That is totally, totallyunconventional, but absolutely
well worth it and certainlyamplifying those messages.
Peter Woolfolk (27:33):
Well, you know, the movies have been doing that
for a long time.
Television as well.
When you got to see a certainbrands up close, you could
actually see what the name isCoca Cola or Dr Pepper or Heinz
ketchup, those kinds of things.
So there was a little bit of aforerunner for those kinds of
things happening, and it'sgetting carried over to the
(27:54):
digital age now as well.
Brandi Sims (27:56):
Yes, oh, 100%.
You know, it's almost like arecycle of history, right, and
I'm sure you can speak to thisvery well is a lot of the times.
You know, there's the ebbs andflows.
It's almost a pendulum swing, Ishould really say.
You know, first we see a lot ofcreative and then we just kind
of see it pulled back, and nowwe're swinging back into what's
(28:18):
outside of the box, what's justvery different or an unexpected
partnership that would actuallymake sense for what it is that
we're doing and what we'reoffering, and we're seeing more
and more of that.
Now.
I think the biggest takeaway isthat you're seeing bigger
brands do this which typicallywas almost reserved for the
smaller guys, right, those viralmoments, those TikTok business
(28:40):
owners, so to speak.
You saw them doing kind ofthose unconventional types of
brand partnerships.
Well, now, it's no longer justthem.
Those unconventional types ofbrand partnerships Well, now,
it's no longer just them.
Now we're seeing some of thebig guys taking on that same
almost grassroots effort in.
Yeah, we're going to check thebox of all of our traditional
media.
We'll do the TV interview,We'll hop on the radio, we'll
stop by and get a quote in thislocal newspaper or magazine, but
(29:05):
we're also going to add inthose viral moments on these
podcasts that have greatfollowing.
We're also going to add inthose viral moments on these
podcasts that have greatfollowing.
We're also going to add inthose brand collaborations that
are just different and uniquebut speak to what it is that our
brand is doing.
Those are the types of thingsthat, as again the pendulum is
swinging, the more out of thebox the better, but making sure
(29:26):
that it's aligned with themessaging and the overall vision
of a true rollout, absolutely.
Peter Woolfolk (29:32):
Well, I certainly agree with you again
because, as I said, people wantto do something that works.
What role is it that we havenot traveled yet, that we see
other people using, and how canwe make it work to our advantage
?
We make it work to ouradvantage.
So you know, that combinationof print media and digital media
and digital outlets certainlyworks well together when it
(29:55):
benefits all parties involved.
Brandi Sims (29:57):
Oh, yes, yes, and I think that's the approach that
every business owner or brandowner should be looking for is
how do we create theseout-of-box experiences and
partnerships that make sense forour endgame right, our endgame,
our result?
What is it that we're lookingfor and what do we need it to do
?
And that's where you'll findthe success and the results that
(30:19):
you're looking for, just likethese movies that have broken
box office goals in a time where, I think just a couple of years
ago, they were very concernedabout.
Is the box office going torecover?
Is movie theater is going tostill be a thing in a couple of
years?
Well, these two movies have justproven absolutely there is
going to still be a need andthere's still a goal for that
(30:42):
entertainment and excitementabout the entertainment.
It's just the way that it'smarketed and it's just the way
that it's marketed and it's justthe way that the PR approach
has had to adapt in order tokeep engaging that audience.
And obviously they were able todo this successfully and get
some very, very good resultsthat have broken records and
really set the stage for thefuture of cinema.
Peter Woolfolk (31:06):
Well, you know, the other thing too, and
probably the basic thing, is themovie.
Is it worth going to?
see, because you know we havenot seen.
You know Tom Cruise, you knowhis movies, you know they just
break box office records allaround the world.
So getting involved insomething like that is fine.
I think I forget one of theactors had some movie about his
(31:27):
life.
I'm not sure five people evenshowed up to see it.
So you have to be careful aboutwhat it is.
It's not so much who the actorwas, but what's the story about,
what's the movie about?
So you have to have people whoknow what they're doing to get
you involved in it and beprepared to pay for it.
Brandi Sims (31:46):
Oh, absolutely.
You need to have a budget.
You know all of this doesn'tjust magically appear, even
these viral moments.
Everyone that has gone viralcan tell you there was a lot of
work that went into play forthat viral moment to even happen
.
So you've got to have a budgetand you have to have a plan and
a strategy approach that iseffective, that is going to get
(32:08):
you that result that you'relooking for.
But you're so right, you knowthese don't happen with no
budget.
You know you've got to bewilling to invest.
I'm just saying they didn't popup with a $100 billion.
You know, box office weekend byplaying small, just saying.
Peter Woolfolk (32:25):
Brandon, that was great.
So number five what do we gotfor number five?
Brandi Sims (32:30):
Yes, yes.
Well, so for number five, ourfinal one is just seeing an
evolution of speakingengagements.
So this one was reallyinteresting because I had kind
of personally observed and alsojust kind of connecting with my
colleagues as well as justlooking into the PR market and
industry insights, and one thingI found is that speaking
(32:52):
engagements have really made atransition from just being that
informal outreach where you knowyou can send a cold email or a
cold pitch or just stop by andsay, hey, you know, I've got
somebody great for you, and thenyou're able to secure these
bookings, and it's shifted fromthat to now.
It's a very structured packagethat we're seeing and, more
(33:14):
specifically, we're seeing a lotof those in the speaker market
almost deciding to package itinto more of a sponsorship
aspect that benefits both thebusiness and the individual
that's involved.
So this is one that's making itand really what I'll say is
this is that there are becomingmore and more speakers and I
(33:38):
think you've seen it too, peter.
There are more and morespeakers, more qualified, great
speakers that are just kind ofcoming out of the woodwork, and
I love it.
I think it's great, if you havea talent and a skill, to be a
communicator and communicateyour message effectively on
stage.
I think it's fantastic.
We need more of them.
However, because there's such arise of it, it's become very,
(33:59):
very competitive in this market.
So the traditional ways thatyou would typically find
speaking engagements andopportunities it's almost sort
of transitioning out of that andgetting even more competitive,
in that now there's actuallypackages, now there's actually a
submission form or submissionbasis.
Of course, these things havealways existed between some
(34:20):
events, but I'm seeing it moreand more in trends that more
events are saying, hey, you needto gain more experience or you
want to elevate your profile andwe need a speaker and we need
somebody.
That's good.
So how can we couple this in sowe kind of both get what we're
looking for?
That's where this is coming inis.
(34:40):
We're seeing the evolution ofspeaking engagements becoming
not so much the cold pitch.
You know, you send out your bioor a clip of, you know, your
speaking engagement and you'vekind of gotten a way into the
door and we're seeing thattransition from that to now.
Okay, they want a speakerpackage or they're looking for
(35:01):
something that aligns withalmost their sponsorship and
marketing promotion.
That kind of equally benefitsyou both.
So that is something that isdefinitely a trend to watch in
2025.
I see a rise in this kind ofapproach as more events are
looking for high quality, highimpact speakers, but at the same
(35:22):
time they're raising funds forthis event.
They're also looking for kindof that sponsorship touch.
They're raising funds for thisevent.
They're also looking for kindof that sponsorship touch.
I see it kind of almost gettingcoupled more into that
sponsorship feel.
As we're moving along, that'sdefinitely going to be slimming
down who and what is going to beselected for speaking
opportunities moving forward.
Peter Woolfolk (35:42):
Well, let me say that I'm one of those people
thinking about looking into it,maybe sometime next year, not
only because of the podcast, butI've been in public relations
for around 30 years.
I've done some public speakingat the senior levels.
When I was at the US Departmentof Education, the Clinton
administration and I would speakto large.
You know we're talking aboutthose national events that maybe
(36:06):
600, 700 people come to or moreand have a chance to speak
there.
So speaking is notuncomfortable for me, having
been in radio and television.
I've done that before andobviously the podcast now.
But also I've been invitedseveral times to speak to PRSA
students, probably around 10universities around the country.
I mean, they've all beendigital, but the fact is that
(36:29):
you're still speaking to them.
So that's something I will beexploring a little bit more in
depth next year.
Brandi Sims (36:36):
And I think with your expertise and your
experience, you're going to govery far with that, but I'm sure
you don't need me saying that.
You already know it right.
So, with that being said, Ithink it's very important that
speakers now that are coming outand say you know, I want to do
full-time speaking engagementsor you know, offer that as a
service or an opportunity.
(36:57):
Here, I think the biggest thingis that it reinforces the
importance of having a reallycompelling presentation and a
really compelling pitch to speakon behalf of your, speaking
Once again.
the speaker market is growing.
It is growing and more and morepeople are kind of coming out
and saying, oh, I'm a speakereven with very minimal speaking
(37:20):
experience or opportunities,right.
So more and more are coming outand we're all competing against
the same thing is to find theopportunity.
So what's gonna help you standout?
It's your expertise because,that expertise is very much
coupled into your credibility asa speaker and then, of course,
the overall visual.
(37:41):
What is the compelling natureof your presentation.
That is what's gonna really setyou apart from the competition,
because if you already have theexpertise almost taken miles
ahead of your competitionbecause I can tell you just an
experience a lot of folks thatwill have reach out even to us,
(38:02):
while of course their intentionsare are, I totally get it, it's
probably pure.
But you know they come in andthey're expecting okay, well,
you know, I'm a speaker todayand we want you guys to find us
all these speaking engagementseven though we don't have any
experience.
Well, I'm probably not, guys,to find us all these speaking
engagements even though we don'thave any experience.
Well, I'm probably not going tofind you a lot.
And if I do find you a lot,it's definitely not going to be
(38:24):
paid and it's not going to betens of thousands of dollars
that you thought you were goingto get out of this Absolutely
not.
It's going to be kind of a slowburn and build as you build up
the credibility as a speaker,because right now we don't even
have that as a leverage point.
So definitely what's going toreally set people apart is the
experienced speakers, theexperienced professionals within
(38:47):
their industry and craft thatare going to push and pave the
way to those opportunities andbe able to explore it much more
extensively than some of thenewer guys that are coming in
and deciding to add speaker totheir, to their roster and their
list.
You're definitely going to needto do get a little bit more
experience.
Experience and also considersome of those non-paid gigs and,
(39:11):
of course, the one that Imentioned in the beginning of
this, which is sponsorship,which is something that a lot of
events I've found have startedto do, is they're offering
sponsorship as a way in for youto get your experience, but also
they get a sponsor for theirevent.
So it's kind of a mutuallybeneficial kind of play there.
(39:33):
But you know, depending on whatyour budget is, it may not be
in alignment kind of play there.
But you know, depending on whatyour budget is, it may not be
in alignment.
I can tell you I've worked witha very, very well-known media
conglomerate for years and oneof the speaker quote unquote
sponsorships was close to$40,000.
And so you know you have to askyourself if you're willing to
(39:54):
spend that much on, you know,just being seen to be able to
participate in an event.
Why are we not considering PRand communication as an
outsourcing, a consultant, orgetting some support to where
you can build upon thatexperience, instead of throwing
away $40,000 for just a one timeevent that you'll be seen at?
(40:15):
I mean, these are the questionswe've got to ask ourselves here
.
Peter Woolfolk (40:18):
Well, you know, one of the things that I think
about, as I said, particularlywhen I've been talking to
college students to grab theirattention.
My opening statement to them ishow does a guy like me, who got
kicked out of college twice,wind up working for the
President of the United States?
And I say what?
Brandi Sims (40:35):
Oh my God.
Peter Woolfolk (40:40):
How did that happen?
Well, I decided I didn't likeit.
Well, I liked the idea of beingcooked at school twice, but so
I had to buckle down and makesome serious changes about me.
And you know a lot of otherthings taking chances.
You know how to make thingshappen.
As I said, you know, the firsttime the Clinton people called
me, as I think I told you awhile back, I didn't know who he
was and so I didn't sign onwith him.
(41:02):
Then he went on to be president.
So I'm going to go to the courtand I'm done, and then how I
fix that.
So you know those kinds ofthings, the stories that I can
tell, that I think will engage alot of people in terms of, you
know, pursuing this thing ofspeaking engagements next year.
Now, I don't want to do it fulltime, but at least I certainly
want to have a go at it becauseI actually enjoy doing it.
Brandi Sims (41:24):
For sure.
Well, hey, you know, I alwaysgot your back.
So whenever you are ready for aspeaker circuit, I'm your girl.
Peter Woolfolk (41:32):
You know, I'm probably going to give you a
call on that too.
Brandi Sims (41:36):
Yes, yes, give me a call.
I'm always game, okay.
Peter Woolfolk (41:41):
So let me say, brandi, look, this has really
been an informative sessionwe've had here today and I
really want to say thank you forobviously taking the time to do
it.
But I'm certainly glad that youput that out there and I had
the opportunity to see it andthus invited you to the podcast
there, and I had the opportunityto see it and thus invited you
to the podcast, and I'm sure mylisteners were going to
appreciate very, very much aboutthe substance of the content
(42:02):
that we had today well, Iappreciate you so much for
having me on.
Brandi Sims (42:06):
This was so much fun and and definitely looking
forward to having more chatslike this in the future okay,
well, let me say once again myguest today is Brenda Sims.
Peter Woolfolk (42:14):
She is the CEO and founder of Brand Inc PR and
the host of the Brand Incpodcast, and you can find her on
regular podcast sites.
And I also want to say thankall of my listeners for
listening and if you've enjoyedthe podcast, we'd certainly like
to get a review from you andalso share this with your
friends.
And also don't forget to tuneinto the next edition of the
(42:35):
Public Relations Review podcastand also don't forget to tune
into the next edition of thePublic Relations Review Podcast.
Announcer (42:46):
This podcast is produced by Communication
Strategies, an award-winningpublic relations and public
affairs firm headquartered inNashville, Tennessee.
Thank you for joining us.
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