December 30, 2024 • 37 mins
Original broadcast date: October 13, 2020. Ever wonder how high-stakes political campaigns can shape a career in public relations? Join host Peter Woolfolk and guests for a compelling re-visit of a 2020 episode conversation with Adrian Grimes, Norris Clark and Peter Woolfolk as they share their transformative experiences from managing communications for Newt Gingrich's, Ross Perot's aaaand Bill Clinton's presidential campaigns. Adrian reveals how the fast-paced, high-pressure environment honed her skills in message crafting, event management, and social media engagement, while Norris recounts his unexpected entry into the political world, illustrating how these experiences paved the way for success in the PR industry. Peter outlines his experience a Clinton's Delaware press secretary, and his experiences in the U.S. Congress.
Our discussion takes a deep dive into the intricacies of media relations and event management. Learn from Adrian and Norris as they recount personal stories of negotiating with journalists, managing interactions with Congress, and orchestrating high-profile events featuring figures such as the Vice President and First Lady. These anecdotes highlight the importance of building strong relationships with journalists, respecting their role, and ensuring accurate storytelling, ultimately shaping effective client management and media interactions.
Explore the nuances of campaign communication and crisis management as we discuss storytelling's power in politics, with insights from James Carville's advice on being relevant and impactful. The conversation also touches on the importance of authenticity and strategic communication during crises, using historical examples like the Monica Lewinsky scandal. We reflect on the significance of civility, understanding policies, and maintaining a professional reputation that stands the test of time. This episode offers invaluable lessons from the world of political campaigns that continue to influence public relations expertise today.
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Episode Transcript
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Announcer (00:03):
Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast, a
program to discuss the manyfacets of public relations with
seasoned professionals,educators, authors and others.
Now here is your host, peterWoolfolk.
Peter Woolfolk (00:23):
Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast
and to our listeners all acrossAmerica and around the world.
With the presidential campaignunderway, I began to think about
how my hands-on experience in acampaign of this magnitude
prepared me for advancing tosenior levels in the public
relations world.
That in turn sparked the ideato identify other professionals
(00:46):
that have had a similarexperience, and then we could
discuss what were some of thosemajor learning experiences and
how they prepared us to advancein the public relations industry
.
So joining me today are twopeople who have had that
experience, and I will also joinin.
Starting us off will be AdrianGlymes.
She is currently the SouthCarolina Research Authority's
(01:09):
new director of marketing andcommunications, and she joins us
today from Somerville, southCarolina.
Prior to that, she headed theexternal staff and marketing
communications for the SouthCarolina's telehealth alliance
and the Medical University ofSouth Carolina Center for
telehealth.
She also serves on the board ofdirectors for Carolina's
Telehealth Alliance and theMedical University of South
Carolina's Center for Telehealth.
She also serves on the Board ofDirectors for Carolina's
Healthcare Public Relations andMarketing Society and on the
(01:31):
Business and FinancialSubcommittee of the American
Telemedicine Association.
However, for purposes of thisbroadcast today, she managed all
of the South Carolinacommunications for the former US
Representative Newt Gingrich'spresidential campaign.
Next up is Norris Clark.
He is the managing partner ofPrinceton Strategic
(01:54):
Communications and joins ustoday from Trenton, new Jersey.
Prior to that, he ownedBayshore Communications and he
was also deputy mayor of theTown of Lourdes, which is Cape
May's largest municipality.
Add to that, he was the Deputyof the Family and Communications
Relations Office in NewJersey's Department of Education
, and he also was a VicePresident with Magnet
(02:17):
Communications.
However, it was while he waswith Perot Systems in Plano,
texas, that he was recruited byRoss Perot to manage the
introduction of some of theirnew offerings.
As a result, norris was tappedto serve as the state director
and spokesperson for RossPerot's presidential campaign.
(02:38):
Now, for part of my backgroundand I'll be very quick about
this and I'll just pick it up asthe fact that I've also became
after having some TV and radioexperience, I became a
communications manager at theNational Education Association
in Washington DC, which is whichis my hometown.
Later I became the presssecretary for the chairman of
the US Congress Committee onEducation and Labor and later
(02:58):
worked for two other seniormembers of Congress.
So that went into the Clintonand Gould second campaign where
I was the Delaware presssecretary.
After that I went into theClinton and Gould's second
campaign where I was theDelaware press secretary.
After that ended, I came backto DC to be one of the press
secretaries for the Presidentialand Liberal Committee and then
into the Clinton Administrationof Special Assistance for
Communications for AssistantSecretary of Education.
(03:19):
With all that said, let mewelcome Adrian and Norris to the
podcast.
Adrian Grimes (03:26):
Thank you, peter, thank you, thank you.
Peter Woolfolk (03:28):
Okay.
Well, adrian, why don't youlet's say ladies first, why
don't you let us hear from youabout some of the experiences
that you had in Newt Gingrich'scampaign and how that benefited
you?
Adrian Grimes (03:40):
Okay, sure, that was an exciting time.
Okay, sure, that was anexciting time.
(04:11):
I was self-employed doingmarketing communications for a
number of political candidates,which is how I ended up'd be
great for this.
I said I'm not sure, thoughthat I agree with everything he
says and does, and he said itdoesn't matter.
I remember and he's still inWashington his line to me was
red state, blue state, greenmoney, and so with that I jumped
in.
It was a wonderful experience.
I will never regret it.
I learned a lot.
What I did remember I startedoff in television news and you
(04:31):
know how hectic a newsroom is.
But after leaving TV news I kindof gotten away from the
franticness of writing.
But certainly, working withthis presidential campaign, all
of that came back.
The franticness of writing.
I call it writing on the fly,when you're preparing statements
(04:52):
and the candidate is out givinginterviews.
I remembered how to write onthe fly and pivot pretty quickly
.
Speaker Gingrich was all overSouth Carolina.
He was in hospitals, he was inworkplaces, he was talking to
the media, his wife was withover South Carolina.
He was in hospitals, he was inworkplaces, he was talking to
the media, his wife was with hima lot, and so you know we had
the prep calls every morning butas the day went along you were
(05:15):
constantly writing and changingwhat you said and resubmitting
things to the campaign directorand sometimes he was accepting
and sometimes he was saying nocampaign director, and sometimes
he was accepting and sometimeshe was saying no.
But it was really a lot ofwriting on the fly that I honed
really well with that campaign.
And then also working withevents.
(05:36):
You know we've all done events,but presidential campaign events
are a whole other level becauseyou're working with advanced
teams, security, the media, allat the same time.
So working with a lot oflogistics, and I had never
worked with advanced teams whowanted to know a day ahead you
know what you were going to sayand how were you going to say it
and where was he going to standwhen you said it because of
(05:57):
security.
So that was fascinating.
And then, lastly, I will say Ilearned how to really
participate in social medialistening.
We all respond to social mediaand manage social media, but the
social media listening is awhole different animal, because
you're literally listening towhat people are saying online,
(06:18):
how they're saying it, and thentrying to craft your message to
respond to those things.
Peter Woolfolk (06:23):
Well, that's great.
Norris Clark (06:24):
All right, how about you?
Well, peter, I need to tell youthe story of how a school
teacher ended up on Ross Perot'scampaign.
And here's what happened.
I was sitting on my sofa athome minding my own business,
and my wife was watching LarryKing Live.
And my wife was watching LarryKing live and I was.
(06:49):
I was running a school andteaching at the community
college level and I was teachingAmerican government.
It's one of the things I wasteaching.
But my wife saw Ross Perot andLarry King live and she
literally jumped off the sofa.
She ran over to the phone, shedialed some number in Dallas and
then she handed me the phoneand she said Norris, do
something about the nationaldebt.
And I gave my name.
(07:12):
The next thing I knew there wasa line of people outside my
door.
We organized our communitytogether.
This, of course, was the mostunorthodox political campaign in
the history of America, Isuspect, and so you know Ross
dropped out, got back in.
(07:32):
I mean, it was really a lot ofdrama going on with this
campaign, but he ended up withnearly 20 percent of the vote.
After the election in 92, heformed an organization called
United we stand America and thiswas really about.
You know, he had newt gingrichcalling him, he had President
Clinton calling him andeverybody was interested, you
(07:55):
know, about getting the parolevoters back in their camps,
right, and so he set up Unitedwe stand America.
Over two million people sent in$20 and as this was organizing,
I was elected to represent NewJersey to the national
organization.
And then when I get there theysaid out of the 50 state
(08:18):
directors, we're going to electfive of you to be on the board
of directors.
So the next thing I knew Ididn't campaign for the job, but
I guess that made me attractiveand I ended up sitting next to
Ross Pro on a, you know, over 40million dollar citizen action
group.
And after we incorporated hegave us and this is no lie he
(08:40):
said, norris, come with me.
And I had about minutes' noticebefore we were placed on a dais
in front of the entire NationalPress Corps, every network, all
the C-SPAN, all there.
And he got up and he said, muchto my surprise, you know, hi,
my name is Ross Perot.
(09:00):
I'm just the white albinomonkey that came here to draw a
crowd.
This is not about me, I'm justincidental to this organization.
So I'm going to turn this pressconference over to these folks
here who fought and died tobuild the organization from the
ground up, and that's what hesaid.
And he walked off the stage andsat on the front row.
Now I was standing there and mywife tuning in on television.
(09:25):
She's realizing that herhusband has really gotten into
the thick of it.
And one of the first people tostand up and ask a question was
Dan Balsz of the Washington Post, the political reporter, and
the question was what are yougoing to do about the national
debt?
What's your agenda now?
I stress to you that this wholepress conference and the fact
(09:48):
that I was going to have to sayanything was a surprise, with
about three minutes.
But I had learned in myteaching days that you never
know when people are going toask you a question and you
always should be prepared to tohave an answer.
And it helps if you have threepoints.
And so you know in the showerthat that that morning, before
(10:15):
coming to the board meeting, Ijust said well, you know, what
are we going to do about the net?
What's the plan?
And I won the three points.
So I think I started toorganize some thoughts in my
head and so I don't rememberwhat I said, but I had three
points and that opened the doorto representing Ross Perot and
his, his, his movement acrossAmerica.
(10:36):
And I ended up on CNN anddebating governor Jerry Brown in
California and beinginterviewed by.
Newsweek and having my nametaken in vain by Rush Limbaugh
on his national radio program.
So that's the first lesson, andI've got several more I can
(10:57):
share with you, if you want, interms of what I learned after
that first incident, as I got toknow reporters, I was just dumb
enough not to look at reportersas enemies, not to look at them
as adversaries, and what I didwas give them total respect for
(11:17):
the job that they had.
I know it was their job to getthe story and to get it right.
To get the story and to get itright.
And I just made a lot of goodrelationships with major
reporters because I reallywanted to serve them as they
were trying to get the story.
And there's one time where theymisquoted national publication.
(11:38):
I won't mention it, but theythey had me saying, they asked,
you know they asked.
The question are do you thinkthat the, the movement is, need
someone to transcend Ross ordoes the movement transcend Ross
Perot?
Was the question.
And I said, of course it'sbigger than one man, but it got
(12:00):
came out into the national pressand it was came out like this
Norris Clark says that themovement needs someone who can
transcend Ross Perot.
So you know it's a little bitdifferent twist, but the point
of that is I called up thatreporter and I said you know,
that's not exactly what I said.
And he went back and looked athis notes and said you're right,
(12:23):
and and retracted it andrewrote it and that that taught
me that that I think we've lostin political discourse with.
We've now made it okay todenigrate the media as a class,
and I think that's a terriblemistake.
I think it's wrong.
I don't think it's the civilthing to do and that most
(12:46):
reporters want to get it right,and if you respect them in their
jobs, you've got a lot betterchance of getting your story out
there accurately.
Peter Woolfolk (12:56):
Well, you know, I've listened to both of you and
we've all shared similarexperiences.
I'm looking here at some of mynotes and we talked about
managing major events, becausepart of I did have a little bit
of an advance, I guess, in termsof having worked with some
members of Congress notnecessarily the same thing, but
some of the things that I gotout of that was Congress passes
(13:19):
a lot of bills and legislationand there's a lot of information
.
Reporters want that information, but I found out from my point
of view that I only need to knowthe high points of that
legislation or the policy thatthey're talking about.
If I, if they, need to go intothe weeds about it, then I've
got some people you know thelegislative focus that can go
and get that done, but alsorespecting reporters, giving
(13:43):
them everything they need to getthe story.
That was one of the things Ilearned quick on Capitol Hill.
Here's the congressman, here'sthe data, what time you want to
talk to them or meet with them.
Here's the information, all theinformation you need.
So, absolutely right.
But in terms of the election,when I was in Delaware, I had
(14:04):
not dealt with large numbers ofreporters because the vice
president came up and the firstlady came up, not at the same
time but similar.
And now you're right, you'reworking with the advance team
because they want to knoweverything, and you're also
working with security, all atone time.
So, if you can recall,particularly security, they ask
(14:25):
very detailed questions.
I mean they want to know whatroutes are coming and what door
they're going to go, maybe howmany steps, who's going to be on
the stage with the person, whatare they going to say, all of
those kinds of things.
So from my point of view, ittaught me to think, forced me to
think in more detail aboutstuff Pool reporters.
I've never dealt with a poolreporter pools before, because
(14:47):
most of the time as PR people wespend our time going after
reporters to get something inthe media.
Politics is right there on you,asking you questions.
So part of what I saw waslearning to understand the
intricacies if you will not allthe details of the policies that
(15:08):
are being discussed, thelegislation that's being
discussed, so that we could atleast have some conversations
with those reporters and eventplanning.
Details are important.
I've never heard of anybodywhen, as I say, the deus or the
riser for the media were goingup and somebody said something
(15:29):
about the throw.
What's the throw for this?
And I'm saying, what the hellare you talking about?
And basically, the throw iswhat's the distance between the
riser and the microphone?
You know, so they can determinehow long a cable they need to
run.
So you know all of those kindsof things.
So that's some of the stuff Ilearned, not only how to manage
those events and dealing withpeople, but thinking in terms of
(15:52):
details.
That I, you know, carried overto working with other clients.
Adrian Grimes (15:57):
Yeah, you're correct talking about things
that these terms what's a throw?
Mine was.
What do you mean?
by wheels down, wheels up.
They're flying from state tostate.
You know, sometimes in a dayand like you know, adrian, I
need to know when when's wheelsup and I'm like, well, his
(16:19):
flight leave, no, no, when.
When he wheels down, you know.
So which is different from whendoes his flight land is when
does he wheels down?
Because everybody on the planecan flick off of airplane mode
and so now they haveconnectivity and that's wheels
down, switch airplane.
(16:39):
You know, you have connectivityon the plane, so there are
things that you can do beforethey deboard the plane, and
those are terms I'd literallynever heard of, and this is
2012,.
So I'm not new in my careerbecause I'm, you know, I'm older
, but you know, I just had neverheard those things.
So, you're right, there arethings that are very specific to
(17:04):
political campaigns andpolitical communications, but I
learned very quickly tounderstand wheels up, wheels
down and how that was differentfrom what time the flight left
and what time he flight left andhe was due in a particular city
, so very detailed, as you said,you know.
Norris Clark (17:24):
Peter, the probably the most important
thing I learned throughout allthe process of a campaign was
the importance of telling astory, and I got the first tip
on this from actually, for itwas from James Carville.
I heard him talk about thethree things that were most
important to him as he led thecampaign for President Clinton.
(17:47):
He told President Clinton threethings.
Number one you have to berelevant, and that of course is
the economy is stupid Number twois that less is more.
So he spent a lot of time takingthings off of President
Clinton's verbal plate and justmade sure that what he said was
precisely what needed to be said, but then it needed to be
(18:10):
communicated in the form of astory, and I always remembered
that.
And then, years later, I startedstudying the whole idea of what
makes a good story.
And I always remembered that.
And then, years later, Istarted studying the whole idea
of what makes a good story.
And you know, all stories arethe same, you know, as you've
got a character or set ofcharacters whose lives get
(18:31):
thrown out of balance bysomething that happens.
Some crisis comes into theirlife and then they're trying to
put things right again, theirlives back into into balance,
and they're on this quest andjourney to overcome all the
obstacles that are out there asthey put things right.
And you know, it's the basicformat of a story and we we like
(18:55):
to hear stories, becausestories help us to understand
why things are happening.
You know, if you want to,explain to somebody why they
should do something.
You need to tell a story.
You, really I.
There's only four ways that apresidential candidate can
persuade people to go along withthat, the only four options.
(19:15):
They can try to coerce them byscaring them.
They can try to seduce them bytelling them that they'll be
winners if they vote you know,vote for for me.
They can try to reason withthem.
You know, studies have shownthat I'm the best candidate.
Or they can tell a story interms of people who that they
can relate to and identify with,and see themselves in their
(19:38):
shoes, and then say, yeah, if Iwere in your shoes, I'd be doing
the same thing.
And then you sit back and watchOkay, let's see how this
candidate is really going to getus to where we need to be.
Reagan was a great communicatorbecause he told a story that
explained why we shouldcooperate together in order to
(20:00):
make a better America.
And even though not everyoneagreed with his policy and they
recognize that, he was sincereabout wanting to get America to
be that city shining on a hillwhere all of us could be living
together equally and in harmony.
So telling a story turns out tobe the most important way to
(20:23):
communicate.
And it's far better than the allthe other options out there.
And the last thing I want tosay is is that it's the
beginning of every story is acrisis, and so communicators
really have to embrace crisis,especially in a campaign.
I mean, every day is a crisis,usually in a campaign, and
(20:45):
people aren't going to judge youby being in a crisis, but they
are going to judge you by howyou respond to the crisis, and
you need to.
You need to come before peopleand you need to.
You need to come before peopleand you need.
You can never win true spin.
You know spinning doesn't work,bs doesn't work.
(21:07):
Pretty soon, people are going tocut through the BS or they're
going to cut through the spin,as we've seen today with our
elected officials, and call themon account for not being
straight with us.
So you know, the importance ofbeing authentic in telling your
story is probably the mostimportant lesson to be learned,
(21:32):
but that includes embracingcrisis.
Don't run away from it.
Every reporter wants is goingto.
You know, if it bleeds, itleads right.
So you have to embrace thecrisis communications of a
campaign and, you know, notpretend like there's nothing to
see here and appreciate the factthat reporters are going to be
(21:56):
looking.
They're not going to believeeverything we say, they're not
going to just automaticallytrust us, and so you have to be
prepared to prove what it isthat you're saying and back it
up.
Peter Woolfolk (22:08):
Well, you know, that's interesting because when
I hear that, I think about thefact that I was actually in the
administration when the MonicaLewinsky thing broke and, you
know, the secretary called allthe senior staff over there and
said, okay, fine, just do whatwe do because it's out of our
hands and, you know, we'll justsee what happens.
So he finally you know, he,being the president finally had
(22:29):
to fess up.
I think more damage was donewhen he tried to cover it up
than when he finally, you know,said okay, fine, I made a
mistake, let's move on.
It took him a little while toget over that, but he remains
perhaps one of the most popularpresidents around.
The other thing that I thinkabout, particularly when I deal
with political figures, is theydon't like surprises.
(22:52):
So that's why you need to cometo them when you are involved in
some project or event for them,with all the information in
place, all the details who, how,what, where and when so that
when they ask these questions,you've got an answer for them,
because I think, particularly inmembers of Congress or other
public meetings, that they don'twant somebody sticking their
(23:14):
hand up and saying, well, fine,I tried to reach you X number of
times and nobody answered thephone or nobody got back to me.
So you need to plug all thoseholes in terms of how precise
you are in your planning andattention to details, because
when I came here to Nashville, Iwas surprised at how cavalier
(23:36):
people were about events.
They just assumed thateverybody knew who was going to
do what and when it was going tobe done, and that's not the way
I function.
So details and information arevery, very important to me.
That's one of the key takeawaysthat I have from my experience.
Adrian Grimes (23:53):
Yeah, and you're right.
As communicators, when both ofyou were speaking, protection
kept coming to my mind.
You know, as their communicator, you're really.
You're also protecting them.
So it's not talking about, youknow, filling the gaps and
plugging the holes, and theydon't like surprises and so, as
you're writing for them, you areliterally trying to anticipate,
(24:17):
like you said, any question,anything that might come out of
left field.
Oh, you know, newt Gingrich wasknown for the Contract of
America.
That was back in the 90s.
Now it's 2012.
And you know he's trying tobroaden his base and people are
like, oh, what about thatcontract with America?
You know, and so you're tryingto, you know, write about him
(24:38):
today and you're trying to writefor the day, but you're also
having to remember you know, hisrecord from before and trying
to incorporate all those things.
And in a primary you're reallyjust speaking to your base, so
it's a little bit easier.
And then, you know, as you movefrom a primary to a general
election, you're not so muchspeaking to the base, so it's a
little bit easier.
And then you know, as you movefrom a primary to a general
election, you're not so muchspeaking to the base, you're
(25:01):
trying to broaden.
So it requires a lot more workto broaden those communications
from you know, tell the historyand what he's known for and
which of those things he wantsto still be known for and which
of those things he wants toappear that he's moved away from
a little bit.
So it is some intricatecommunications to sort of manage
(25:24):
all of those things and protectthe candidates so that they,
you know, aren't caught offguard.
You're just almost playingdevil's advocate.
You know what could I get himwith?
And trying to anticipate thosethings and to cover your tracks
and I also wanted to speak alittle bit more on the media
relations.
You're right, so much of PR isrunning after the media, but
(25:45):
they do come after you and theywant to get to know you because
they know you're working withthis or that candidate, so you
know, they want the story, theywant to know where they're going
to be every day, what they'regoing to be every day, what
they're going to be doing, whatthey're doing, what they get
there, and so I have beenfortunate.
That's another way this hasprepared or helped my career.
My media relations are prettycool.
(26:12):
You know, local, state,national because there are
people in my LinkedIn that Iworked with in 2012 when I was
doing this, and so I could stilltap into some of those national
networks.
Not necessarily what I'm doingnow in this field, but those
connections are great becausethey'll say, oh Adrian, I'll get
in touch with someone becausehe's covering that.
(26:32):
So the longstanding mediarelations is certainly a plus
from having done this type ofwork.
Norris Clark (26:41):
Well, peter, I was just going to say that, of all
the questions that they ask you,the one that I think is most
important to have a ready answerfor is why?
Why are you doing what you'redoing?
And that speaks to yourmotivation, and people don't
care what you know until theyknow why you care, and so it's
(27:02):
so important to start with whyI'm doing this, why I'm running,
why I believe this policy isimportant, before you get to the
how we're going to do somethingabout it and what it's going to
be.
Most people say you know, Ithink we should have this policy
and here's how we should do it,and they don't get around to
really saying why, what'sdriving this, what's motivating
(27:24):
us to be behind this?
And I believe that's whatpeople are most interested in
hearing about when you'retalking to them.
Peter Woolfolk (27:32):
You know.
The other thing I think abouttoo is when I particularly when
I got in Congress and in thecampaign was all of a sudden now
you're dealing with people atthe highest levels Because,
depending upon, maybe, whatparty or where you are I mean
when I was in Delaware now allof a sudden I'm having
conversations with the governor,the lieutenant governor, the
mayor, on a regular basis.
You know, under normalcircumstances in PR you don't
(27:56):
get to talk to those folks.
I mean just no, no reason toyou dealing with their pr people
, but I'm actually talking tothem uh, bank presidents, other
heavy hitters there.
So, learning how to negotiateand manage any minefield that
might be attached to thatpolitical protocols, those kinds
of things because one of thethings I've also learned is when
a public official shows upsomewhere, whether they say it
(28:18):
or not, they want to speak, theywant to be heard.
That's what they like to do.
So understanding how they thinkand how they work helps you to
translate that understanding andbehavior to what you do for
your clients correct.
Adrian Grimes (28:33):
That's true.
That's true, that's true.
Definitely a league, a certainleague, and so in you searching
out to do even this podcast andtrying to draw, it's probably
not a big group of people whomanage, it's not, and I never
really thought about it.
I mean, I always knew it wassomething, it was an experience
(28:55):
I valued.
Now that I'm thinking about it,a pretty small club mm-hmm.
Peter Woolfolk (29:00):
Well, even when I was looking at you know I put
the first notice first in thePRS, a open line, and I think
the first first and all of hisfather.
Initially I got love initiallyfrom Narcissus office and then,
you know, I got something fromyou at somebody called an office
, somebody else, but trying tocatch up with those people and
(29:20):
you know I just didn't have alot of time to try to track
people down because I mean,we've all had this kind of
experience and it's notsomething that you're going to
get in graduate school.
I mean, when you have tounderstand policies and explain
policies to the media, you knowyou have to know what you're
talking about.
You also have to understand thepros and cons about that.
(29:43):
The other thing in a campaignis you also have to understand
the pros and cons of thecompetition's policies and
agenda so that you know ifthere's some issues there you
can respond to those as well.
Adrian Grimes (30:08):
Opposition research.
Opposition research know, ifthere's some issues that you can
, you can respond to those aswell.
Opposition research that that.
That.
This is where I learned it, notso much with speaker Gingrich
career campaign.
It was before that, when Iworked on two House of
Representatives congressionalcampaigns, that I probably got
my honed my opposition researchskills, and not only their
policies, but you know what theywere saying about the policies,
(30:29):
which can be a little bit moredifferent, a little bit
differently, and how they'respeaking about the policies and
who they're speaking to.
It's almost like it depends onwho you're speaking to, how you
speak and what you say.
You know so much of politics.
Is that way right?
So you have to stay on yourgame the entire time.
Peter Woolfolk (30:53):
You have to be watching and listening and other
people bringing you thingswatching and listening
constantly so that you canalways respond and address
appropriately well, the otherthing I'll say, maybe sort of in
closing here, that you know,yes, you do need to respond to
people and you need to becareful to how you respond,
simply because we've all seenwhat somebody's tripped up
(31:14):
because they thought they werein a private meeting but
somebody had their phone on thatboth recorded the audio and the
video of it.
So you can't explain that thatwasn't me because, no, we can
see you now.
So you need to be careful abouthow you say what it is you need
to say, unless you're out inthe middle of a field somewhere
(31:34):
or something along those lines.
So, yeah, this has been a greatconversation and, narish, do
you have any closing remarks?
Norris Clark (31:42):
Well, just never say anything that you don't want
broadcast wide and far even inprivate.
And I think you know, the firstpresident of the United States
wrote a book and it was entitledOn Civility and in that book
the president, presidentWashington, said you should
never denigrate your, youropponents or your competition.
(32:04):
And he always followed that andhe always remained respectful
even of those who opposed him,and he was the most successful
politician in American history.
But today we have a politicsand a president that has written
a book and the art of the dealis President Trump's book and in
that book it says it's okay todenigrate your, your competition
(32:28):
, that's perfectly okay.
So that's a different,different set of rules that
we've come to now in politicalcommunications.
But I believe that the mostsuccessful politician was
Washington and Lincoln and rightup through to the present day
we've had people that haveremained civil and respectful of
(32:50):
one another, even thoughthey're opposing parties, and I
think that's something we needto come back to in our
communications.
Peter Woolfolk (33:00):
Well, I think you know, and it shows, because
at least with the three currentyou know, Clinton and George W
and Obama, I mean you see thosethree together at certain events
and I know that Bill Clintonand the bush ever hit it off.
Adrian Grimes (33:18):
well, you know, just a lot of things like that
it does show that the civilitydoes pay it does it and, like
Norris said, you know so much ofthis is credibility and respect
and, as professionals in thisfield, we have to remember that
these are these, these projectsand campaigns.
They have an end date, and soit's really remembering who you
(33:40):
want to be known as acommunicator and what are your
ethics and how do you want to berespected?
And I hear people say all thetime in the media about
President Trump you knowPresident Trump will not be the
president forever.
About President Trump you knowPresident Trump will not be the
president forever and alreadyyou see people who've worked on
his communications come and go,and so it's really incumbent
(34:04):
upon all of us, as professionals, to decide how we want to be
respected, how we want to beviewed in our field, beyond the
project of today.
Peter Woolfolk (34:18):
Well, look, let me thank both of you, adrian
grounds and Norris clock, fortaking time from your busy
schedules to join us today hereon the public relations review
podcast, and to all ourlisteners if you've enjoyed the
show.
Please, we'd like to get areview from you and, of course,
please join us again for thenext edition of the public
relations Review Podcast.
Announcer (34:36):
This podcast is produced by Communication
Strategies, an award-winningpublic relations and public
affairs firm headquartered inNashville, Tennessee.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast, a
program to discuss the manyfacets of public relations with
seasoned professionals,educators, authors and others.
Now here is your host, peterWoolfolk.
Peter Woolfolk (00:23):
Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast
and to our listeners all acrossAmerica and around the world.
With the presidential campaignunderway, I began to think about
how my hands-on experience in acampaign of this magnitude
prepared me for advancing tosenior levels in the public
relations world.
That in turn sparked the ideato identify other professionals
(00:46):
that have had a similarexperience, and then we could
discuss what were some of thosemajor learning experiences and
how they prepared us to advancein the public relations industry
.
So joining me today are twopeople who have had that
experience, and I will also joinin.
Starting us off will be AdrianGlymes.
She is currently the SouthCarolina Research Authority's
(01:09):
new director of marketing andcommunications, and she joins us
today from Somerville, southCarolina.
Prior to that, she headed theexternal staff and marketing
communications for the SouthCarolina's telehealth alliance
and the Medical University ofSouth Carolina Center for
telehealth.
She also serves on the board ofdirectors for Carolina's
Telehealth Alliance and theMedical University of South
Carolina's Center for Telehealth.
She also serves on the Board ofDirectors for Carolina's
Healthcare Public Relations andMarketing Society and on the
(01:31):
Business and FinancialSubcommittee of the American
Telemedicine Association.
However, for purposes of thisbroadcast today, she managed all
of the South Carolinacommunications for the former US
Representative Newt Gingrich'spresidential campaign.
Next up is Norris Clark.
He is the managing partner ofPrinceton Strategic
(01:54):
Communications and joins ustoday from Trenton, new Jersey.
Prior to that, he ownedBayshore Communications and he
was also deputy mayor of theTown of Lourdes, which is Cape
May's largest municipality.
Add to that, he was the Deputyof the Family and Communications
Relations Office in NewJersey's Department of Education
, and he also was a VicePresident with Magnet
(02:17):
Communications.
However, it was while he waswith Perot Systems in Plano,
texas, that he was recruited byRoss Perot to manage the
introduction of some of theirnew offerings.
As a result, norris was tappedto serve as the state director
and spokesperson for RossPerot's presidential campaign.
(02:38):
Now, for part of my backgroundand I'll be very quick about
this and I'll just pick it up asthe fact that I've also became
after having some TV and radioexperience, I became a
communications manager at theNational Education Association
in Washington DC, which is whichis my hometown.
Later I became the presssecretary for the chairman of
the US Congress Committee onEducation and Labor and later
(02:58):
worked for two other seniormembers of Congress.
So that went into the Clintonand Gould second campaign where
I was the Delaware presssecretary.
After that I went into theClinton and Gould's second
campaign where I was theDelaware press secretary.
After that ended, I came backto DC to be one of the press
secretaries for the Presidentialand Liberal Committee and then
into the Clinton Administrationof Special Assistance for
Communications for AssistantSecretary of Education.
(03:19):
With all that said, let mewelcome Adrian and Norris to the
podcast.
Adrian Grimes (03:26):
Thank you, peter, thank you, thank you.
Peter Woolfolk (03:28):
Okay.
Well, adrian, why don't youlet's say ladies first, why
don't you let us hear from youabout some of the experiences
that you had in Newt Gingrich'scampaign and how that benefited
you?
Adrian Grimes (03:40):
Okay, sure, that was an exciting time.
Okay, sure, that was anexciting time.
(04:11):
I was self-employed doingmarketing communications for a
number of political candidates,which is how I ended up'd be
great for this.
I said I'm not sure, thoughthat I agree with everything he
says and does, and he said itdoesn't matter.
I remember and he's still inWashington his line to me was
red state, blue state, greenmoney, and so with that I jumped
in.
It was a wonderful experience.
I will never regret it.
I learned a lot.
What I did remember I startedoff in television news and you
(04:31):
know how hectic a newsroom is.
But after leaving TV news I kindof gotten away from the
franticness of writing.
But certainly, working withthis presidential campaign, all
of that came back.
The franticness of writing.
I call it writing on the fly,when you're preparing statements
(04:52):
and the candidate is out givinginterviews.
I remembered how to write onthe fly and pivot pretty quickly
.
Speaker Gingrich was all overSouth Carolina.
He was in hospitals, he was inworkplaces, he was talking to
the media, his wife was withover South Carolina.
He was in hospitals, he was inworkplaces, he was talking to
the media, his wife was with hima lot, and so you know we had
the prep calls every morning butas the day went along you were
(05:15):
constantly writing and changingwhat you said and resubmitting
things to the campaign directorand sometimes he was accepting
and sometimes he was saying nocampaign director, and sometimes
he was accepting and sometimeshe was saying no.
But it was really a lot ofwriting on the fly that I honed
really well with that campaign.
And then also working withevents.
(05:36):
You know we've all done events,but presidential campaign events
are a whole other level becauseyou're working with advanced
teams, security, the media, allat the same time.
So working with a lot oflogistics, and I had never
worked with advanced teams whowanted to know a day ahead you
know what you were going to sayand how were you going to say it
and where was he going to standwhen you said it because of
(05:57):
security.
So that was fascinating.
And then, lastly, I will say Ilearned how to really
participate in social medialistening.
We all respond to social mediaand manage social media, but the
social media listening is awhole different animal, because
you're literally listening towhat people are saying online,
(06:18):
how they're saying it, and thentrying to craft your message to
respond to those things.
Peter Woolfolk (06:23):
Well, that's great.
Norris Clark (06:24):
All right, how about you?
Well, peter, I need to tell youthe story of how a school
teacher ended up on Ross Perot'scampaign.
And here's what happened.
I was sitting on my sofa athome minding my own business,
and my wife was watching LarryKing Live.
And my wife was watching LarryKing live and I was.
(06:49):
I was running a school andteaching at the community
college level and I was teachingAmerican government.
It's one of the things I wasteaching.
But my wife saw Ross Perot andLarry King live and she
literally jumped off the sofa.
She ran over to the phone, shedialed some number in Dallas and
then she handed me the phoneand she said Norris, do
something about the nationaldebt.
And I gave my name.
(07:12):
The next thing I knew there wasa line of people outside my
door.
We organized our communitytogether.
This, of course, was the mostunorthodox political campaign in
the history of America, Isuspect, and so you know Ross
dropped out, got back in.
(07:32):
I mean, it was really a lot ofdrama going on with this
campaign, but he ended up withnearly 20 percent of the vote.
After the election in 92, heformed an organization called
United we stand America and thiswas really about.
You know, he had newt gingrichcalling him, he had President
Clinton calling him andeverybody was interested, you
(07:55):
know, about getting the parolevoters back in their camps,
right, and so he set up Unitedwe stand America.
Over two million people sent in$20 and as this was organizing,
I was elected to represent NewJersey to the national
organization.
And then when I get there theysaid out of the 50 state
(08:18):
directors, we're going to electfive of you to be on the board
of directors.
So the next thing I knew Ididn't campaign for the job, but
I guess that made me attractiveand I ended up sitting next to
Ross Pro on a, you know, over 40million dollar citizen action
group.
And after we incorporated hegave us and this is no lie he
(08:40):
said, norris, come with me.
And I had about minutes' noticebefore we were placed on a dais
in front of the entire NationalPress Corps, every network, all
the C-SPAN, all there.
And he got up and he said, muchto my surprise, you know, hi,
my name is Ross Perot.
(09:00):
I'm just the white albinomonkey that came here to draw a
crowd.
This is not about me, I'm justincidental to this organization.
So I'm going to turn this pressconference over to these folks
here who fought and died tobuild the organization from the
ground up, and that's what hesaid.
And he walked off the stage andsat on the front row.
Now I was standing there and mywife tuning in on television.
(09:25):
She's realizing that herhusband has really gotten into
the thick of it.
And one of the first people tostand up and ask a question was
Dan Balsz of the Washington Post, the political reporter, and
the question was what are yougoing to do about the national
debt?
What's your agenda now?
I stress to you that this wholepress conference and the fact
(09:48):
that I was going to have to sayanything was a surprise, with
about three minutes.
But I had learned in myteaching days that you never
know when people are going toask you a question and you
always should be prepared to tohave an answer.
And it helps if you have threepoints.
And so you know in the showerthat that that morning, before
(10:15):
coming to the board meeting, Ijust said well, you know, what
are we going to do about the net?
What's the plan?
And I won the three points.
So I think I started toorganize some thoughts in my
head and so I don't rememberwhat I said, but I had three
points and that opened the doorto representing Ross Perot and
his, his, his movement acrossAmerica.
(10:36):
And I ended up on CNN anddebating governor Jerry Brown in
California and beinginterviewed by.
Newsweek and having my nametaken in vain by Rush Limbaugh
on his national radio program.
So that's the first lesson, andI've got several more I can
(10:57):
share with you, if you want, interms of what I learned after
that first incident, as I got toknow reporters, I was just dumb
enough not to look at reportersas enemies, not to look at them
as adversaries, and what I didwas give them total respect for
(11:17):
the job that they had.
I know it was their job to getthe story and to get it right.
To get the story and to get itright.
And I just made a lot of goodrelationships with major
reporters because I reallywanted to serve them as they
were trying to get the story.
And there's one time where theymisquoted national publication.
(11:38):
I won't mention it, but theythey had me saying, they asked,
you know they asked.
The question are do you thinkthat the, the movement is, need
someone to transcend Ross ordoes the movement transcend Ross
Perot?
Was the question.
And I said, of course it'sbigger than one man, but it got
(12:00):
came out into the national pressand it was came out like this
Norris Clark says that themovement needs someone who can
transcend Ross Perot.
So you know it's a little bitdifferent twist, but the point
of that is I called up thatreporter and I said you know,
that's not exactly what I said.
And he went back and looked athis notes and said you're right,
(12:23):
and and retracted it andrewrote it and that that taught
me that that I think we've lostin political discourse with.
We've now made it okay todenigrate the media as a class,
and I think that's a terriblemistake.
I think it's wrong.
I don't think it's the civilthing to do and that most
(12:46):
reporters want to get it right,and if you respect them in their
jobs, you've got a lot betterchance of getting your story out
there accurately.
Peter Woolfolk (12:56):
Well, you know, I've listened to both of you and
we've all shared similarexperiences.
I'm looking here at some of mynotes and we talked about
managing major events, becausepart of I did have a little bit
of an advance, I guess, in termsof having worked with some
members of Congress notnecessarily the same thing, but
some of the things that I gotout of that was Congress passes
(13:19):
a lot of bills and legislationand there's a lot of information
.
Reporters want that information, but I found out from my point
of view that I only need to knowthe high points of that
legislation or the policy thatthey're talking about.
If I, if they, need to go intothe weeds about it, then I've
got some people you know thelegislative focus that can go
and get that done, but alsorespecting reporters, giving
(13:43):
them everything they need to getthe story.
That was one of the things Ilearned quick on Capitol Hill.
Here's the congressman, here'sthe data, what time you want to
talk to them or meet with them.
Here's the information, all theinformation you need.
So, absolutely right.
But in terms of the election,when I was in Delaware, I had
(14:04):
not dealt with large numbers ofreporters because the vice
president came up and the firstlady came up, not at the same
time but similar.
And now you're right, you'reworking with the advance team
because they want to knoweverything, and you're also
working with security, all atone time.
So, if you can recall,particularly security, they ask
(14:25):
very detailed questions.
I mean they want to know whatroutes are coming and what door
they're going to go, maybe howmany steps, who's going to be on
the stage with the person, whatare they going to say, all of
those kinds of things.
So from my point of view, ittaught me to think, forced me to
think in more detail aboutstuff Pool reporters.
I've never dealt with a poolreporter pools before, because
(14:47):
most of the time as PR people wespend our time going after
reporters to get something inthe media.
Politics is right there on you,asking you questions.
So part of what I saw waslearning to understand the
intricacies if you will not allthe details of the policies that
(15:08):
are being discussed, thelegislation that's being
discussed, so that we could atleast have some conversations
with those reporters and eventplanning.
Details are important.
I've never heard of anybodywhen, as I say, the deus or the
riser for the media were goingup and somebody said something
(15:29):
about the throw.
What's the throw for this?
And I'm saying, what the hellare you talking about?
And basically, the throw iswhat's the distance between the
riser and the microphone?
You know, so they can determinehow long a cable they need to
run.
So you know all of those kindsof things.
So that's some of the stuff Ilearned, not only how to manage
those events and dealing withpeople, but thinking in terms of
(15:52):
details.
That I, you know, carried overto working with other clients.
Adrian Grimes (15:57):
Yeah, you're correct talking about things
that these terms what's a throw?
Mine was.
What do you mean?
by wheels down, wheels up.
They're flying from state tostate.
You know, sometimes in a dayand like you know, adrian, I
need to know when when's wheelsup and I'm like, well, his
(16:19):
flight leave, no, no, when.
When he wheels down, you know.
So which is different from whendoes his flight land is when
does he wheels down?
Because everybody on the planecan flick off of airplane mode
and so now they haveconnectivity and that's wheels
down, switch airplane.
(16:39):
You know, you have connectivityon the plane, so there are
things that you can do beforethey deboard the plane, and
those are terms I'd literallynever heard of, and this is
2012,.
So I'm not new in my careerbecause I'm, you know, I'm older
, but you know, I just had neverheard those things.
So, you're right, there arethings that are very specific to
(17:04):
political campaigns andpolitical communications, but I
learned very quickly tounderstand wheels up, wheels
down and how that was differentfrom what time the flight left
and what time he flight left andhe was due in a particular city
, so very detailed, as you said,you know.
Norris Clark (17:24):
Peter, the probably the most important
thing I learned throughout allthe process of a campaign was
the importance of telling astory, and I got the first tip
on this from actually, for itwas from James Carville.
I heard him talk about thethree things that were most
important to him as he led thecampaign for President Clinton.
(17:47):
He told President Clinton threethings.
Number one you have to berelevant, and that of course is
the economy is stupid Number twois that less is more.
So he spent a lot of time takingthings off of President
Clinton's verbal plate and justmade sure that what he said was
precisely what needed to be said, but then it needed to be
(18:10):
communicated in the form of astory, and I always remembered
that.
And then, years later, I startedstudying the whole idea of what
makes a good story.
And I always remembered that.
And then, years later, Istarted studying the whole idea
of what makes a good story.
And you know, all stories arethe same, you know, as you've
got a character or set ofcharacters whose lives get
(18:31):
thrown out of balance bysomething that happens.
Some crisis comes into theirlife and then they're trying to
put things right again, theirlives back into into balance,
and they're on this quest andjourney to overcome all the
obstacles that are out there asthey put things right.
And you know, it's the basicformat of a story and we we like
(18:55):
to hear stories, becausestories help us to understand
why things are happening.
You know, if you want to,explain to somebody why they
should do something.
You need to tell a story.
You, really I.
There's only four ways that apresidential candidate can
persuade people to go along withthat, the only four options.
(19:15):
They can try to coerce them byscaring them.
They can try to seduce them bytelling them that they'll be
winners if they vote you know,vote for for me.
They can try to reason withthem.
You know, studies have shownthat I'm the best candidate.
Or they can tell a story interms of people who that they
can relate to and identify with,and see themselves in their
(19:38):
shoes, and then say, yeah, if Iwere in your shoes, I'd be doing
the same thing.
And then you sit back and watchOkay, let's see how this
candidate is really going to getus to where we need to be.
Reagan was a great communicatorbecause he told a story that
explained why we shouldcooperate together in order to
(20:00):
make a better America.
And even though not everyoneagreed with his policy and they
recognize that, he was sincereabout wanting to get America to
be that city shining on a hillwhere all of us could be living
together equally and in harmony.
So telling a story turns out tobe the most important way to
(20:23):
communicate.
And it's far better than the allthe other options out there.
And the last thing I want tosay is is that it's the
beginning of every story is acrisis, and so communicators
really have to embrace crisis,especially in a campaign.
I mean, every day is a crisis,usually in a campaign, and
(20:45):
people aren't going to judge youby being in a crisis, but they
are going to judge you by howyou respond to the crisis, and
you need to.
You need to come before peopleand you need to.
You need to come before peopleand you need.
You can never win true spin.
You know spinning doesn't work,bs doesn't work.
(21:07):
Pretty soon, people are going tocut through the BS or they're
going to cut through the spin,as we've seen today with our
elected officials, and call themon account for not being
straight with us.
So you know, the importance ofbeing authentic in telling your
story is probably the mostimportant lesson to be learned,
(21:32):
but that includes embracingcrisis.
Don't run away from it.
Every reporter wants is goingto.
You know, if it bleeds, itleads right.
So you have to embrace thecrisis communications of a
campaign and, you know, notpretend like there's nothing to
see here and appreciate the factthat reporters are going to be
(21:56):
looking.
They're not going to believeeverything we say, they're not
going to just automaticallytrust us, and so you have to be
prepared to prove what it isthat you're saying and back it
up.
Peter Woolfolk (22:08):
Well, you know, that's interesting because when
I hear that, I think about thefact that I was actually in the
administration when the MonicaLewinsky thing broke and, you
know, the secretary called allthe senior staff over there and
said, okay, fine, just do whatwe do because it's out of our
hands and, you know, we'll justsee what happens.
So he finally you know, he,being the president finally had
(22:29):
to fess up.
I think more damage was donewhen he tried to cover it up
than when he finally, you know,said okay, fine, I made a
mistake, let's move on.
It took him a little while toget over that, but he remains
perhaps one of the most popularpresidents around.
The other thing that I thinkabout, particularly when I deal
with political figures, is theydon't like surprises.
(22:52):
So that's why you need to cometo them when you are involved in
some project or event for them,with all the information in
place, all the details who, how,what, where and when so that
when they ask these questions,you've got an answer for them,
because I think, particularly inmembers of Congress or other
public meetings, that they don'twant somebody sticking their
(23:14):
hand up and saying, well, fine,I tried to reach you X number of
times and nobody answered thephone or nobody got back to me.
So you need to plug all thoseholes in terms of how precise
you are in your planning andattention to details, because
when I came here to Nashville, Iwas surprised at how cavalier
(23:36):
people were about events.
They just assumed thateverybody knew who was going to
do what and when it was going tobe done, and that's not the way
I function.
So details and information arevery, very important to me.
That's one of the key takeawaysthat I have from my experience.
Adrian Grimes (23:53):
Yeah, and you're right.
As communicators, when both ofyou were speaking, protection
kept coming to my mind.
You know, as their communicator, you're really.
You're also protecting them.
So it's not talking about, youknow, filling the gaps and
plugging the holes, and theydon't like surprises and so, as
you're writing for them, you areliterally trying to anticipate,
(24:17):
like you said, any question,anything that might come out of
left field.
Oh, you know, newt Gingrich wasknown for the Contract of
America.
That was back in the 90s.
Now it's 2012.
And you know he's trying tobroaden his base and people are
like, oh, what about thatcontract with America?
You know, and so you're tryingto, you know, write about him
(24:38):
today and you're trying to writefor the day, but you're also
having to remember you know, hisrecord from before and trying
to incorporate all those things.
And in a primary you're reallyjust speaking to your base, so
it's a little bit easier.
And then, you know, as you movefrom a primary to a general
election, you're not so muchspeaking to the base, so it's a
little bit easier.
And then you know, as you movefrom a primary to a general
election, you're not so muchspeaking to the base, you're
(25:01):
trying to broaden.
So it requires a lot more workto broaden those communications
from you know, tell the historyand what he's known for and
which of those things he wantsto still be known for and which
of those things he wants toappear that he's moved away from
a little bit.
So it is some intricatecommunications to sort of manage
(25:24):
all of those things and protectthe candidates so that they,
you know, aren't caught offguard.
You're just almost playingdevil's advocate.
You know what could I get himwith?
And trying to anticipate thosethings and to cover your tracks
and I also wanted to speak alittle bit more on the media
relations.
You're right, so much of PR isrunning after the media, but
(25:45):
they do come after you and theywant to get to know you because
they know you're working withthis or that candidate, so you
know, they want the story, theywant to know where they're going
to be every day, what they'regoing to be every day, what
they're going to be doing, whatthey're doing, what they get
there, and so I have beenfortunate.
That's another way this hasprepared or helped my career.
My media relations are prettycool.
(26:12):
You know, local, state,national because there are
people in my LinkedIn that Iworked with in 2012 when I was
doing this, and so I could stilltap into some of those national
networks.
Not necessarily what I'm doingnow in this field, but those
connections are great becausethey'll say, oh Adrian, I'll get
in touch with someone becausehe's covering that.
(26:32):
So the longstanding mediarelations is certainly a plus
from having done this type ofwork.
Norris Clark (26:41):
Well, peter, I was just going to say that, of all
the questions that they ask you,the one that I think is most
important to have a ready answerfor is why?
Why are you doing what you'redoing?
And that speaks to yourmotivation, and people don't
care what you know until theyknow why you care, and so it's
(27:02):
so important to start with whyI'm doing this, why I'm running,
why I believe this policy isimportant, before you get to the
how we're going to do somethingabout it and what it's going to
be.
Most people say you know, Ithink we should have this policy
and here's how we should do it,and they don't get around to
really saying why, what'sdriving this, what's motivating
(27:24):
us to be behind this?
And I believe that's whatpeople are most interested in
hearing about when you'retalking to them.
Peter Woolfolk (27:32):
You know.
The other thing I think abouttoo is when I particularly when
I got in Congress and in thecampaign was all of a sudden now
you're dealing with people atthe highest levels Because,
depending upon, maybe, whatparty or where you are I mean
when I was in Delaware now allof a sudden I'm having
conversations with the governor,the lieutenant governor, the
mayor, on a regular basis.
You know, under normalcircumstances in PR you don't
(27:56):
get to talk to those folks.
I mean just no, no reason toyou dealing with their pr people
, but I'm actually talking tothem uh, bank presidents, other
heavy hitters there.
So, learning how to negotiateand manage any minefield that
might be attached to thatpolitical protocols, those kinds
of things because one of thethings I've also learned is when
a public official shows upsomewhere, whether they say it
(28:18):
or not, they want to speak, theywant to be heard.
That's what they like to do.
So understanding how they thinkand how they work helps you to
translate that understanding andbehavior to what you do for
your clients correct.
Adrian Grimes (28:33):
That's true.
That's true, that's true.
Definitely a league, a certainleague, and so in you searching
out to do even this podcast andtrying to draw, it's probably
not a big group of people whomanage, it's not, and I never
really thought about it.
I mean, I always knew it wassomething, it was an experience
(28:55):
I valued.
Now that I'm thinking about it,a pretty small club mm-hmm.
Peter Woolfolk (29:00):
Well, even when I was looking at you know I put
the first notice first in thePRS, a open line, and I think
the first first and all of hisfather.
Initially I got love initiallyfrom Narcissus office and then,
you know, I got something fromyou at somebody called an office
, somebody else, but trying tocatch up with those people and
(29:20):
you know I just didn't have alot of time to try to track
people down because I mean,we've all had this kind of
experience and it's notsomething that you're going to
get in graduate school.
I mean, when you have tounderstand policies and explain
policies to the media, you knowyou have to know what you're
talking about.
You also have to understand thepros and cons about that.
(29:43):
The other thing in a campaignis you also have to understand
the pros and cons of thecompetition's policies and
agenda so that you know ifthere's some issues there you
can respond to those as well.
Adrian Grimes (30:08):
Opposition research.
Opposition research know, ifthere's some issues that you can
, you can respond to those aswell.
Opposition research that that.
That.
This is where I learned it, notso much with speaker Gingrich
career campaign.
It was before that, when Iworked on two House of
Representatives congressionalcampaigns, that I probably got
my honed my opposition researchskills, and not only their
policies, but you know what theywere saying about the policies,
(30:29):
which can be a little bit moredifferent, a little bit
differently, and how they'respeaking about the policies and
who they're speaking to.
It's almost like it depends onwho you're speaking to, how you
speak and what you say.
You know so much of politics.
Is that way right?
So you have to stay on yourgame the entire time.
Peter Woolfolk (30:53):
You have to be watching and listening and other
people bringing you thingswatching and listening
constantly so that you canalways respond and address
appropriately well, the otherthing I'll say, maybe sort of in
closing here, that you know,yes, you do need to respond to
people and you need to becareful to how you respond,
simply because we've all seenwhat somebody's tripped up
(31:14):
because they thought they werein a private meeting but
somebody had their phone on thatboth recorded the audio and the
video of it.
So you can't explain that thatwasn't me because, no, we can
see you now.
So you need to be careful abouthow you say what it is you need
to say, unless you're out inthe middle of a field somewhere
(31:34):
or something along those lines.
So, yeah, this has been a greatconversation and, narish, do
you have any closing remarks?
Norris Clark (31:42):
Well, just never say anything that you don't want
broadcast wide and far even inprivate.
And I think you know, the firstpresident of the United States
wrote a book and it was entitledOn Civility and in that book
the president, presidentWashington, said you should
never denigrate your, youropponents or your competition.
(32:04):
And he always followed that andhe always remained respectful
even of those who opposed him,and he was the most successful
politician in American history.
But today we have a politicsand a president that has written
a book and the art of the dealis President Trump's book and in
that book it says it's okay todenigrate your, your competition
(32:28):
, that's perfectly okay.
So that's a different,different set of rules that
we've come to now in politicalcommunications.
But I believe that the mostsuccessful politician was
Washington and Lincoln and rightup through to the present day
we've had people that haveremained civil and respectful of
(32:50):
one another, even thoughthey're opposing parties, and I
think that's something we needto come back to in our
communications.
Peter Woolfolk (33:00):
Well, I think you know, and it shows, because
at least with the three currentyou know, Clinton and George W
and Obama, I mean you see thosethree together at certain events
and I know that Bill Clintonand the bush ever hit it off.
Adrian Grimes (33:18):
well, you know, just a lot of things like that
it does show that the civilitydoes pay it does it and, like
Norris said, you know so much ofthis is credibility and respect
and, as professionals in thisfield, we have to remember that
these are these, these projectsand campaigns.
They have an end date, and soit's really remembering who you
(33:40):
want to be known as acommunicator and what are your
ethics and how do you want to berespected?
And I hear people say all thetime in the media about
President Trump you knowPresident Trump will not be the
president forever.
About President Trump you knowPresident Trump will not be the
president forever and alreadyyou see people who've worked on
his communications come and go,and so it's really incumbent
(34:04):
upon all of us, as professionals, to decide how we want to be
respected, how we want to beviewed in our field, beyond the
project of today.
Peter Woolfolk (34:18):
Well, look, let me thank both of you, adrian
grounds and Norris clock, fortaking time from your busy
schedules to join us today hereon the public relations review
podcast, and to all ourlisteners if you've enjoyed the
show.
Please, we'd like to get areview from you and, of course,
please join us again for thenext edition of the public
relations Review Podcast.
Announcer (34:36):
This podcast is produced by Communication
Strategies, an award-winningpublic relations and public
affairs firm headquartered inNashville, Tennessee.
Thank you.
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