July 7, 2025 • 33 mins
Communication strategy has evolved dramatically in recent years, requiring professionals to understand not just how to craft messages, but how those messages are received by diverse audiences. Joshua Altman, Managing Director of Beltway Media in Washington DC, takes us on a fascinating journey through modern strategic communications, sharing invaluable insights from his experience working with both government agencies and private sector clients.
At the heart of effective communication lies understanding what people "read, see, hear, and experience." Altman explains to host Peter Woolfolk how behavioral science principles reveal that audiences need to encounter messages 7-14 times before truly internalizing them, making strategic repetition across multiple touchpoints essential. The conversation examines how dramatically communication approaches must differ when targeting 100 key decision-makers versus 330 million Americans, illustrating the importance of tailoring strategies to specific audience parameters.
Having worked as a contractor for the Department of Justice and Department of Commerce, Altman offers rare insights into the unique challenges of government communications. He describes the evolution from expensive satellite systems to modern digital platforms, highlighting how technology has democratized access while reducing costs. When working with clients starting from what they perceive as a "blank slate," Altman demonstrates how identifying and leveraging existing assets—from email lists to professional networks—can build confidence and create foundations for effective communication programs.
Throughout the discussion, Altman emphasizes his role as a "fractional Chief Communications Officer" rather than simply a task vendor, integrating deeply with clients to shape perception and build trust over the long term. The conversation also explores open-source tools that can compete with expensive platforms, making sophisticated communication possible even with limited budgets. As Altman summarizes with his guiding principle: "Communicate strategically, not voluminously"—quality messaging will always triumph over sheer volume.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:04):
Welcome.
This is the Public RelationsReview Podcast, a program to
discuss the many facets ofpublic relations with seasoned
professionals, educators,authors and others.
Now here is your host, PeterWoolfolk.
Peter Woolfolk (00:25):
Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast
and to our listeners all acrossAmerica and around the world.
Now, apple has ranked thispodcast among the top 1% of
podcasts worldwide and recentlyFeedspot listed this podcast as
number 13 on its top 70 bestpublic relations podcasts in the
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So thank you to all of ourguests and listeners for your
(00:48):
continued support and if youenjoy the podcast, please leave
a review.
Welcome, and here's thequestion for the audience Does
your business or organizationhave an individual responsible
for managing all external andinternal communication
strategies?
Is it important?
Who oversees all messaging andmedia, from investor relations
(01:09):
to crisis communications andmore?
My guest today considers howprojects and programs come
together for clients to receiveinformation, be that reading,
seeing, hearing or experiences.
Joshua Altman is the ManagingDirector of Beltway Media in
Washington DC.
His experience includesharnessing data-driven methods,
(01:30):
behavioral science principleswhich provide an edge in public
affairs policy, and craftingcompelling narratives.
So, joshua, thank you so verymuch for joining me today.
Joshua Altman (01:41):
Thank you for having me.
Peter Woolfolk (01:43):
The question now becomes how do you begin to use
, how clients receive,information to begin crafting
strategies behind behavioralsciences and so forth, to have
them strategically andeffectively deliver their
messages?
Joshua Altman (01:58):
I think that's a great place to really start this
, because you're asking how wekind of begin a project how are
they getting their information?
So it starts with aconversation with that client.
You know what are they doingand in some cases the answer is
actually a blank slate.
They're really not doing muchin terms of their communication,
(02:19):
especially in an integrated way.
So, in terms of how they'regetting information, sometimes
it's just you know of theircommunication, especially in an
integrated way.
So, in terms of how they'regetting information, sometimes
it's just you know theircustomers, their clients,
talking to them.
Other times you know they'rerunning LinkedIn ads or you know
doing the occasional.
You know blue sky, twitter Xpost and they're just looking at
(02:42):
.
You know reposts and commentsand they're just looking at you
know reposts and comments, andthat's how they're getting the
information.
And for us, we look at thatwhen we're beginning to craft
these strategies, using thingslike behavioral science, which
really just is a fancy way ofsaying understanding why
individuals and groups act theway they act and groups act the
(03:03):
way they act, and from there wecan start working with them to
get usually better and moreinformation, to start informing
better decisions.
Peter Woolfolk (03:23):
So does it also depend exactly crafting what the
specific message not only thespecific message is going to be
and how it's going to be crafted, but also how it's going to be
delivered to their audiences?
Joshua Altman (03:35):
Always matters.
One of the things we talk abouta lot at my firm is what people
read, see, hear and experience.
So if you are a federal agencyand your audience is 300-plus
million American adults or330-ish million Americans
overall, that's going to be verydifferent than if you are a b2b
(03:59):
firm working specifically inthe energy industry.
So kind of who their audienceis and what they get is very
different.
And if you're a federal agencyand you have, you know, hundreds
of millions of people in youraudience, you got to cover a lot
more bases than, say, that b2benergy firm which you know.
(04:20):
You know where those tradeshows are.
You know who the decisionmakers that companies are.
You can get a list of companiesthat you are trying to reach
out to and know who youraudience is.
You know one firm I spoke withat one they were saying we kind
of know who we want.
We have a list of 100 decisionmakers who we're targeting.
Like well, that's a smallaudience, right, that's very
(04:41):
small.
Like you got a, you knowsometimes emails you're looking
for you know.
You know, depending on, you'regoing for an opens.
You're obviously looking for alot more.
You know 30 is percent, maybe40 on the low end.
That's 40 people.
It's that particular audience,so your open rate better be
(05:03):
really good if you're targetingthat.
You know using emails.
As opposed to getting 40 peopleout of 330 million plus
Americans Big difference in yourrate there.
So who they're trying to reachout to and kind of what they
hear back from is important.
And the flip side of that, whenyou're dealing with a company
(05:26):
like that you know, b2b Energyfirm, with a list of 100
decision makers, it could bevery personalized.
Like, your feedback is you know, we know that.
You know, joe Smith told us onthis date that this is what
they're looking for.
Like, your feedback is you know, we know that you know Joe
Smith told us on this date thatthis is what they're looking for
.
Like, we can work with that soyou can really get personalized,
actionable feedback when youhave such a small list, which is
(05:49):
an advantage, but it is a verysmall list.
Peter Woolfolk (05:53):
You know, one of the things you brought up, of
course, is working with thefederal government, and I don't
believe we've had a guest onhere that has actually spoken in
detail about working not onlywith the federal government, but
also with and for the federalgovernment.
I've done both.
Let's talk about the federalgovernment for a moment or so,
(06:15):
as to how there are differentaudiences and how you have to do
more for them to get whatevertheir messages are out.
Joshua Altman (06:25):
Yeah, so I was a federal contractor at two
different agencies, theDepartment of Justice and the
Department of Commerce, and withthat you know.
So I was not a federal employee, I was a contractor.
I was a subcontractor.
Okay.
So when you're a federalemployee, there are different
things going on.
As you know, in my role as acontractor, as a subcontractor,
(06:49):
you have to reach a lot ofpeople.
Like I said, you know there areabout 300-ish million American
adults.
Add in, you know, children,you're up to about 330 million
or so, plus or minus a couplemillion, and reaching them
requires you've got to hiteveryone you have.
(07:10):
In terms of the US, theseagencies covered everywhere,
from the North Atlantic to theSouth Pacific.
We covered Guam because we hadpeople there and we had to
communicate with that population, with that audience.
So it's a lot in terms of justgeography.
(07:32):
And of course, you're thinkingthe Internet is borderless but
people are different acrossgeographies and you got to
figure out what you got to do toreach them.
Your audiences are, of course,very different.
(07:59):
We're not trying to make toolsthat anyone in the US would use
and be comfortable accessing,which can be a lot when you have
that many people of that levelof diversity and I think a lot
of agencies really do a greatjob doing it, you know,
(08:19):
considering that it's a big liftto reach that many people who
have, you know, just diverseexperiences and backgrounds, who
you know need to getinformation in very different
ways.
So we would, of course, dothings you know, just like
anything you know commercialbusiness would do.
You know we had you, we hadimages, we had infographics.
(08:40):
If we had people who were goingto in-person events, they
brought one-pagers with them.
I worked with the agency to dothe content and design, so that
would work with people who maybeweren't online as much.
Peter Woolfolk (09:00):
Well, one of the things that I think that,
because I work for theDepartment of Education, and one
of the things is that, yes,there are a lot of people there,
but also some of those thataudience can be broken down to
smaller groups One of the thingsI had to do was to put together
a satellite meeting forcommunity college people around
the country.
Well, that was a much smalleraudience.
(09:21):
You know, I had to hook up thesatellite in Washington and get
it fed around to all over thecountry.
You know the big part of it was, you know, where am I going to
get this thing downloaded?
Well, the thing I found out wasthat, you know, a lot of
community colleges do havesatellite systems where they do
pull down information, and therewas an office of community
(09:43):
colleges in the department.
So, working with them, I knewwho I could call on to pull the
signal down.
But then there's also thequestion of getting a signal up
to them.
So I learned a lot, you know,over there.
And also the diversification ofthe audiences.
Yes, I mean the federalgovernment reaches the entire
(10:03):
population for some things,depending upon what it is, might
be just a smaller part of thepopulation, but the government.
Working for them is a wholedifferent system as compared to
working for the private industrypeople.
Joshua Altman (10:18):
Yes, and you know you were dealing with.
You know satellite uplinks anddownloads More recently.
You know we do webinars, justlike.
Peter Woolfolk (10:26):
That's right with agencies.
Joshua Altman (10:28):
It's, you know, zooms and team webinars and
go-to meetings, and you knowit's a very different situation.
So you don't have to worry asmuch now about, you know,
dealing with those satellitelinks which, of course, were
very expensive.
Running webinars still hascosts associated, of course, but
in terms of budget-consciousspending taxpayer dollars, it is
(10:51):
a much lower number of dollarswhen you are working on a
GoToMeeting or Microsoft Teamswebinar or Zoom than you are
when you're trying to dosatellite uplinks and downloads.
Peter Woolfolk (11:07):
Well, yeah, I was at the beauty of my age when
I was doing that, you know, Imean that was a big thing.
Then You're absolutely right,it was, and it wasn't that long
ago.
Joshua Altman (11:18):
And it wasn't that long ago.
Peter Woolfolk (11:20):
And it wasn't that long ago, I remember doing
them.
Joshua Altman (11:22):
I remember earlier in my career we would
use satellites and specialvirtual systems.
You had to call it and getspecial internet for it.
It was not as easy as it istoday at all, which I think is
great, because it means privatecompanies and government can be
in more places and reach peoplemuch more directly than when you
(11:47):
had to be at the communitycollege, where they had the
satellite connection available.
Peter Woolfolk (11:53):
That's right, you know.
One of the other things Imentioned in the opening is that
you began to craft strategiesand you also used some
behavioral sciences in some ofthe projects.
Joshua Altman (12:15):
Talk a little bit about that, how that interacted
, how that was involved in howyou developed some programs.
Yeah, so behavioral sciencecovers a lot of things, things
like decision-making biases, youknow, social influences and
just, of course, our habits.
So when we're kind of usingthat, we think about, you know,
in terms of communication, suchas, you know, corporate or
(12:35):
government communications howpeople are going to get that
information and what makes senseto them.
So that frame, that message,how are they getting it?
But a great example that's kindof easy to understand in a
podcast setting is you can'tjust say it once, you can't just
say it twice.
There's an often repeatedstatistic and it might be
(12:58):
apocryphal, especially it'schanged over time that people
need to hear things seven to 14times to really internalize an
act, and that's been repeatedfor a long time.
So we think how can people getthat information 7 to 14 times
(13:19):
or as often as possible?
And now one thing I really liketo focus on is how can we get
it out there over as many touchpoints?
As possible.
So of course, phones, desktops,computers, tablets are where
people are really getting things.
Tv, of course, still veryexpensive and not used the most
(13:41):
by a lot of the businesses I'mworking for and a lot of you
know the smaller governmentagencies are using it less.
Uh.
You see a lot for um, medicare,open enrollment.
You see the government using uhtv, but for me it was mostly,
you know, getting it out thereonline.
So it's using things like paidads, which there are different
(14:05):
biases towards paid ads.
Either oh, it's an ad, I ignoreit.
Then that was kind of sneaky.
They used sponsored content andit was light gray that it said
sponsored, hard to see on white,I'm not sure that's a little
deceptive.
So that was a different biastowards it.
So you've just got to really berepetitive with that and that's
(14:26):
something we try over and overagain to be effective doing.
Peter Woolfolk (14:33):
You know, one of the things that as I listen to
you talk about that, that comesto mind that some years ago I
was doing some lobbying for AT&There in Nashville because they
wanted to get cable systems intoall over the state.
But the biggest issue for themwere and where the tough spots
(14:54):
came were rural areas.
You know you don't have a lotof people, but you've got to put
out a lot of cables to get thesystem there and the government
required it.
So there was a lot ofnegotiation that had to go on
about that, you know, in termsof how people receive it, but it
was imperative that they did ifthey wanted to receive the
license to do that.
(15:15):
So you know they had to sitdown with the government to
decide what they were going todo and, you know, make the
arrangements.
I mean that's the bottom line.
So those are some of the otherthings that have to be.
When you talk about experienceyou have to deal with.
You know how do people gettheir information?
Yes, I mean they get thenewspaper, but the government.
If you want to have that cableTV system out there which they
(15:38):
wanted them to do because thegovernment also uses it, then
you've got to put the wires outthere, like it or not, and
expensive or not, and you findsome way to pay for it.
But it has to be done.
Joshua Altman (15:50):
Yeah, actually I've always found the economics
and social area around wiringToday it's fiber, but getting
that cable laid across theentire country just to be one of
the most interestingcommunications challenges.
I think it's been done verywell because we have, you know,
(16:12):
first cable, first phone, thencable TV and now, you know,
high-speed Internet across a lotof the country.
And it's a lot of land to cover.
So you would know, having donethat with AT&T, it's just, even
in one state it's a lot to coverand we do a great job Overall.
There are, of course, patcheswhere it's not present or it's
(16:36):
slower, but over time it doesreach.
Peter Woolfolk (16:39):
Mm-hmm, tell us a little bit about, let's say,
maybe some of the morecompelling projects that you've
been working on that had thebiggest mountain to climb to
solve the problem.
You know but through you know,your experiences and joining
with other colleagues, that youdid come up with a way to get
the job done.
Have you had those kind ofexperiences?
Joshua Altman (17:00):
Yeah.
So there are probably two bigyou know buckets companies will
fall into.
One is they are a total blankslate, they really haven't done
much in terms of theircommunications, and the other is
(17:22):
they've done a lot and it's alittle disjointed, and both of
those present two very differentchallenges.
So let's talk a little aboutyou know, the blank slate one.
You know they're a company.
They have been around for youknow maybe 10-ish years, but
(17:45):
outside of their kind of smallcommunity they're not as
well-known as they'd like to be.
A lot of that's kind of workingwith them and building up
audiences, because you kind ofhave to have that first.
So we look at do they haveemail lists Like what can we use
(18:07):
that they have already in place, because they're really not
starting as much from zero asthey often think.
They've collected emails overhowever many years of clients,
of vendors, of whomever theywork with.
They have their LinkedInnetworks.
(18:27):
They might have a Twitter Xpage that they occasionally used
.
So what can we do with that tomake it work a little better and
leverage existing things?
And once we kind of talk with aclient about that I was working
(18:52):
with a firm that did a littlebit of work in the energy sector
firm that did a little bit ofwork in the energy sector.
I don't want to give them awaybecause I don't want to disclose
what they've done, but they hada lot of that because they've
collected these things and oncewe told them here's what we can
(19:16):
do, they were a lot morecomfortable, because when they
think they have nothing this istrue with a lot of companies,
not just this one they get alittle nervous.
Mm-hmm.
And when they're nervous, youknow they may make.
You know this goes back tobehavioral science.
You know irrational decisionsare based on poor information.
(19:39):
People are more comfortable intheir decisions.
Mm-hmm.
So we took everything they hadkind of assigned some value to
it.
Okay, we can.
This is a really valuable emaillist you have, really valuable
email list you have.
We can use that and startcreating email sequences for
(20:02):
everything from onboarding, youknow, to get people on, and also
just email marketing, you know,tell people what you're doing,
just updates, mm-hmm.
And once we kind of startedfrom that, it was able to grow a
little more.
Peter Woolfolk (20:22):
One of the things that I think has come out
in terms of what you sort ofjust described there, and I
think it's important for publicrelations people to understand,
is that part of your job isproblem solving.
How do you help a client getover this particular hump or
clear this particular hurdle toget this particular message out,
or whatever it happens to be?
(20:43):
So the more and the wider yourexperiences have been, the more
exposure you've had to a lot ofoperations and processes and
electronics and computers and soforth really helps to solve
those problems, because that'swhy they have you there.
How can you help me get thisjob done?
(21:04):
And the better prepared you are, the better off you're going to
be.
Joshua Altman (21:09):
Yes, and you know we are, you know we look at
things as a particular job.
Of course they have a goal theywant to accomplish a particular
job.
Of course they have a goal theywant to accomplish, but we
think of it.
You know, we are, you know,chief communications officers
for our clients, uh, which meansthat we are fractional.
So it is much more.
We are integrated into what youdo.
(21:30):
It's not you know we are hereto do your email marketing.
You know we are really here toshape perception and build trust
, maintain that trust long term.
So it's not we are just here tolaunch a product.
We are just here to manage yoursocial media.
It's how are all these thingsworking together?
Peter Woolfolk (21:56):
Now have you also been in a position where
you had to introduce them to newprograms and or platforms that
could facilitate the work thatthey're doing?
Joshua Altman (22:07):
All the time, okay, all the time.
It's a very common thing, andyou know, one of the reasons for
that is you know, we are thecommunications experts.
We're the experts atcommunicating your expertise.
You are the expert in whateverit is you do, be it healthcare,
energy, it, government.
(22:29):
We don't expect you to knowevery platform or every tool out
there, just like we are notexperts in, you know, performing
surgery if you're a healthcareclient Like we just aren't
because we are not experts inperforming surgery if you're a
healthcare client, we justaren't because we are not
surgeons.
So all the time it's kind ofbringing them in and there are
ways we do that to introducethese new products or new
(22:53):
platforms for them and usuallyit's easy.
There isn't a lot of pushbackin general because you know
we're not saying use product Aor use this email delivery
system.
It's much more.
We you know like using a coupleof these you know for email and
(23:18):
we'll give a list.
I'm not trying to endorse anyparticular product or service
third-party service here so I'mnot going to start selling them,
but here's a list of three orfour that we've used.
Here are the benefits anddrawbacks to each, because every
platform has ups and downs.
Nothing will do everything andnothing will do it all great.
(23:40):
So we lay it out that way and Ifound that when you provide
those options not limitlessoptions, but a discrete list of
three or four that kind of dosimilar things you know, email
marketing or social mediamanagement or research, if you
know, we're in an early stageand we kind of want to just know
(24:01):
the lay of the industry, getthat lay of the land there, how
we do it, and then they feelthey are a little more
comfortable and a lot of times Iget a response of well, it
doesn't really matter to uswhich platform you use, as long
(24:21):
as we get a result.
They're a little less concernedwith is it product A or product
B, they just want their thingdone.
They don't care if I useMicrosoft Word or Google Docs.
It makes no difference to themwho my email provider is Same
(24:44):
thing.
They just want to see thatvalue come out.
Peter Woolfolk (24:51):
Well, and I think it's important, as we just
mentioned, that you do pointthose things out to them,
because a lot of folks who havebeen in some of these jobs, when
you talk about the government,they've been there for years and
you know maybe they don't getthe exposure to the different
platforms that are coming out,because maybe their agency just
(25:11):
hadn't had a need for them andyou know they continue to do
things the way we as a lot offolks.
Well, this is the way we'vealways done it.
Well, maybe that started back,you know, years ago and things
have changed and so they do needthings.
I mean, yes, it's expeditious,it's there to help you do your
job better and faster, I guessis the best way I put it to
(25:33):
people and the government, forthe most part, can't afford them
because, I mean, some of thisstuff is really not outrageous
in cost.
Joshua Altman (25:49):
It's just effective in terms of being able
to use it and it helps you getyour job done quicker, faster
and, in some cases, better it is.
And you know you kind oftouched on, you know kind of
laying these options out.
That's what I do in pretty muchevery situation with a client
or on a project I'm working onis.
You know, I start with my veryfirst conversation before they
are even officially a client atthat point, and it says my job
is not to tell you only thingsyou want to hear, it's to give
(26:11):
you options, it's to wait, tellyou pros and cons, it's to tell
you challenges and help you makea decision.
And I'm here to work with youthrough that, but not only to
tell you the things that youwant to hear.
And I think that does helpbuild some confidence that they
(26:34):
know okay, from the verybeginning.
It's not all rosy.
There are pros and cons acrossthe board and I will be very
upfront with that.
Peter Woolfolk (26:46):
And I'm glad you mentioned that too, because
that was the very next thing Iwas going to say that all
decisions have consequences.
So the more you know about whatit is you want to get and you
want to have done and how youwant it to be done, here are
some of the platforms that canhelp you get there.
Maybe there's some pros andcons a little bit about this one
or that one, but you know,rather than you're still using
(27:10):
some.
You know old equipment.
Here's some new stuff that isbetter, is faster and it's
making your life a lot easier.
Joshua Altman (27:19):
That's what a lot of folks like to hear yeah, and
I think what they like to hearis that, plus, you know
especially you mentioned this-lower cost a lot of a lot of
these services.
You know they're out there andthey seem like it's just another
subscription.
I know we all have subscriptionfatigue, but they can when used
(27:43):
judiciously, improve results.
It doesn't mean go buy everysubscription to every service,
but the right ones can reallyhelp you, and some of these
products do make a hugedifference.
Peter Woolfolk (28:03):
Well, you know the other thing too, that you
know particularly whether it'sthe government or otherwise.
There are a lot of platformsthat are out there that do
excellent jobs for you, and theyhappen to be free.
Oh yes, I do my recording.
I'm recording on Audacity rightnow.
It's one of the better audioplatforms in the world.
As a matter of fact, I've beenusing it for years and it is
(28:26):
maybe number one in somepeople's eyes and number two in
some others, but it has a lot offeatures, it can do a lot of
things for you and the cost iszero.
Joshua Altman (28:37):
Yeah, I've always been a fan of free, especially
open source, software and tools.
Some people knock it because,oh, it's free.
I'm like, yeah, it's free.
Peter Woolfolk (28:51):
And it's good.
Joshua Altman (28:51):
That's the other part of it Well, some of them
are great.
Peter Woolfolk (28:55):
Right.
Joshua Altman (28:56):
Some of them I wouldn't want to use.
Some of them I wouldn't want touse.
But the great ones really areon par or, in some cases, better
than subscription options.
They might require a littlemore technical knowledge to use,
but some of these free, opensource platforms are great.
(29:19):
They're out there.
Peter Woolfolk (29:20):
And they've been around for years, which sort of
validates how well they've beenworking.
Joshua Altman (29:26):
And you know you look at some of the platforms,
things like Audacity, others outthere.
You know some web hostingcontent management systems.
They have great communitiesbehind them that do this open
source work and some of them,some of these platforms,
actually have resources in majorcompanies that, since they use
(29:52):
them, those big companies putteams on maintaining them.
Peter Woolfolk (30:00):
Well, Jonathan, this has been a great discussion
on some of the things thatyou've done and how you've gone
about doing those.
Any closing remarks for theaudience?
Joshua Altman (30:09):
Yeah, I would always say, you know, one thing
we talk about is, you know,communicate strategically, not
voluminously.
Be smart about your message.
Peter Woolfolk (30:21):
Well, I certainly tip my hat and go
along with that one.
That's a hugely important thingto say, and let me say this I
want to thank you for coming onto the Public Relations Review
Podcast and sharing your wisdomwith our audience.
Joshua Altman (30:35):
Thank, you for having me.
Peter Woolfolk (30:36):
And I'm sure you're going to get a great deal
from this.
From my audience, I'd like tosay thank you for having me, and
I'm sure they're going to get agreat deal from this.
From my audience, I'd like tosay thank you for joining us
once again.
You continue to make us aglobal podcast and if you've
enjoyed the show, we'd certainlylike for you to go to the
publicrelationsreviewpodcastcomwebsite and leave a review for
us, and also share the fact thatyou've enjoyed this particular
(31:00):
episode with your friends andcolleagues, and listen to us for
the next edition of the PublicRelations Review Podcast.
Announcer (31:10):
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Strategies, an award-winningpublic relations and public
affairs firm headquartered inNashville, Tennessee.
Thank you for joining us.
Welcome.
This is the Public RelationsReview Podcast, a program to
discuss the many facets ofpublic relations with seasoned
professionals, educators,authors and others.
Now here is your host, PeterWoolfolk.
Peter Woolfolk (00:25):
Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast
and to our listeners all acrossAmerica and around the world.
Now, apple has ranked thispodcast among the top 1% of
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continued support and if youenjoy the podcast, please leave
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Welcome, and here's thequestion for the audience Does
your business or organizationhave an individual responsible
for managing all external andinternal communication
strategies?
Is it important?
Who oversees all messaging andmedia, from investor relations
(01:09):
to crisis communications andmore?
My guest today considers howprojects and programs come
together for clients to receiveinformation, be that reading,
seeing, hearing or experiences.
Joshua Altman is the ManagingDirector of Beltway Media in
Washington DC.
His experience includesharnessing data-driven methods,
(01:30):
behavioral science principleswhich provide an edge in public
affairs policy, and craftingcompelling narratives.
So, joshua, thank you so verymuch for joining me today.
Joshua Altman (01:41):
Thank you for having me.
Peter Woolfolk (01:43):
The question now becomes how do you begin to use
, how clients receive,information to begin crafting
strategies behind behavioralsciences and so forth, to have
them strategically andeffectively deliver their
messages?
Joshua Altman (01:58):
I think that's a great place to really start this
, because you're asking how wekind of begin a project how are
they getting their information?
So it starts with aconversation with that client.
You know what are they doingand in some cases the answer is
actually a blank slate.
They're really not doing muchin terms of their communication,
(02:19):
especially in an integrated way.
So, in terms of how they'regetting information, sometimes
it's just you know of theircommunication, especially in an
integrated way.
So, in terms of how they'regetting information, sometimes
it's just you know theircustomers, their clients,
talking to them.
Other times you know they'rerunning LinkedIn ads or you know
doing the occasional.
You know blue sky, twitter Xpost and they're just looking at
(02:42):
.
You know reposts and commentsand they're just looking at you
know reposts and comments, andthat's how they're getting the
information.
And for us, we look at thatwhen we're beginning to craft
these strategies, using thingslike behavioral science, which
really just is a fancy way ofsaying understanding why
individuals and groups act theway they act and groups act the
(03:03):
way they act, and from there wecan start working with them to
get usually better and moreinformation, to start informing
better decisions.
Peter Woolfolk (03:23):
So does it also depend exactly crafting what the
specific message not only thespecific message is going to be
and how it's going to be crafted, but also how it's going to be
delivered to their audiences?
Joshua Altman (03:35):
Always matters.
One of the things we talk abouta lot at my firm is what people
read, see, hear and experience.
So if you are a federal agencyand your audience is 300-plus
million American adults or330-ish million Americans
overall, that's going to be verydifferent than if you are a b2b
(03:59):
firm working specifically inthe energy industry.
So kind of who their audienceis and what they get is very
different.
And if you're a federal agencyand you have, you know, hundreds
of millions of people in youraudience, you got to cover a lot
more bases than, say, that b2benergy firm which you know.
(04:20):
You know where those tradeshows are.
You know who the decisionmakers that companies are.
You can get a list of companiesthat you are trying to reach
out to and know who youraudience is.
You know one firm I spoke withat one they were saying we kind
of know who we want.
We have a list of 100 decisionmakers who we're targeting.
Like well, that's a smallaudience, right, that's very
(04:41):
small.
Like you got a, you knowsometimes emails you're looking
for you know.
You know, depending on, you'regoing for an opens.
You're obviously looking for alot more.
You know 30 is percent, maybe40 on the low end.
That's 40 people.
It's that particular audience,so your open rate better be
(05:03):
really good if you're targetingthat.
You know using emails.
As opposed to getting 40 peopleout of 330 million plus
Americans Big difference in yourrate there.
So who they're trying to reachout to and kind of what they
hear back from is important.
And the flip side of that, whenyou're dealing with a company
(05:26):
like that you know, b2b Energyfirm, with a list of 100
decision makers, it could bevery personalized.
Like, your feedback is you know, we know that.
You know, joe Smith told us onthis date that this is what
they're looking for.
Like, your feedback is you know, we know that you know Joe
Smith told us on this date thatthis is what they're looking for
.
Like, we can work with that soyou can really get personalized,
actionable feedback when youhave such a small list, which is
(05:49):
an advantage, but it is a verysmall list.
Peter Woolfolk (05:53):
You know, one of the things you brought up, of
course, is working with thefederal government, and I don't
believe we've had a guest onhere that has actually spoken in
detail about working not onlywith the federal government, but
also with and for the federalgovernment.
I've done both.
Let's talk about the federalgovernment for a moment or so,
(06:15):
as to how there are differentaudiences and how you have to do
more for them to get whatevertheir messages are out.
Joshua Altman (06:25):
Yeah, so I was a federal contractor at two
different agencies, theDepartment of Justice and the
Department of Commerce, and withthat you know.
So I was not a federal employee, I was a contractor.
I was a subcontractor.
Okay.
So when you're a federalemployee, there are different
things going on.
As you know, in my role as acontractor, as a subcontractor,
(06:49):
you have to reach a lot ofpeople.
Like I said, you know there areabout 300-ish million American
adults.
Add in, you know, children,you're up to about 330 million
or so, plus or minus a couplemillion, and reaching them
requires you've got to hiteveryone you have.
(07:10):
In terms of the US, theseagencies covered everywhere,
from the North Atlantic to theSouth Pacific.
We covered Guam because we hadpeople there and we had to
communicate with that population, with that audience.
So it's a lot in terms of justgeography.
(07:32):
And of course, you're thinkingthe Internet is borderless but
people are different acrossgeographies and you got to
figure out what you got to do toreach them.
Your audiences are, of course,very different.
(07:59):
We're not trying to make toolsthat anyone in the US would use
and be comfortable accessing,which can be a lot when you have
that many people of that levelof diversity and I think a lot
of agencies really do a greatjob doing it, you know,
(08:19):
considering that it's a big liftto reach that many people who
have, you know, just diverseexperiences and backgrounds, who
you know need to getinformation in very different
ways.
So we would, of course, dothings you know, just like
anything you know commercialbusiness would do.
You know we had you, we hadimages, we had infographics.
(08:40):
If we had people who were goingto in-person events, they
brought one-pagers with them.
I worked with the agency to dothe content and design, so that
would work with people who maybeweren't online as much.
Peter Woolfolk (09:00):
Well, one of the things that I think that,
because I work for theDepartment of Education, and one
of the things is that, yes,there are a lot of people there,
but also some of those thataudience can be broken down to
smaller groups One of the thingsI had to do was to put together
a satellite meeting forcommunity college people around
the country.
Well, that was a much smalleraudience.
(09:21):
You know, I had to hook up thesatellite in Washington and get
it fed around to all over thecountry.
You know the big part of it was, you know, where am I going to
get this thing downloaded?
Well, the thing I found out wasthat, you know, a lot of
community colleges do havesatellite systems where they do
pull down information, and therewas an office of community
(09:43):
colleges in the department.
So, working with them, I knewwho I could call on to pull the
signal down.
But then there's also thequestion of getting a signal up
to them.
So I learned a lot, you know,over there.
And also the diversification ofthe audiences.
Yes, I mean the federalgovernment reaches the entire
(10:03):
population for some things,depending upon what it is, might
be just a smaller part of thepopulation, but the government.
Working for them is a wholedifferent system as compared to
working for the private industrypeople.
Joshua Altman (10:18):
Yes, and you know you were dealing with.
You know satellite uplinks anddownloads More recently.
You know we do webinars, justlike.
Peter Woolfolk (10:26):
That's right with agencies.
Joshua Altman (10:28):
It's, you know, zooms and team webinars and
go-to meetings, and you knowit's a very different situation.
So you don't have to worry asmuch now about, you know,
dealing with those satellitelinks which, of course, were
very expensive.
Running webinars still hascosts associated, of course, but
in terms of budget-consciousspending taxpayer dollars, it is
(10:51):
a much lower number of dollarswhen you are working on a
GoToMeeting or Microsoft Teamswebinar or Zoom than you are
when you're trying to dosatellite uplinks and downloads.
Peter Woolfolk (11:07):
Well, yeah, I was at the beauty of my age when
I was doing that, you know, Imean that was a big thing.
Then You're absolutely right,it was, and it wasn't that long
ago.
Joshua Altman (11:18):
And it wasn't that long ago.
Peter Woolfolk (11:20):
And it wasn't that long ago, I remember doing
them.
Joshua Altman (11:22):
I remember earlier in my career we would
use satellites and specialvirtual systems.
You had to call it and getspecial internet for it.
It was not as easy as it istoday at all, which I think is
great, because it means privatecompanies and government can be
in more places and reach peoplemuch more directly than when you
(11:47):
had to be at the communitycollege, where they had the
satellite connection available.
Peter Woolfolk (11:53):
That's right, you know.
One of the other things Imentioned in the opening is that
you began to craft strategiesand you also used some
behavioral sciences in some ofthe projects.
Joshua Altman (12:15):
Talk a little bit about that, how that interacted
, how that was involved in howyou developed some programs.
Yeah, so behavioral sciencecovers a lot of things, things
like decision-making biases, youknow, social influences and
just, of course, our habits.
So when we're kind of usingthat, we think about, you know,
in terms of communication, suchas, you know, corporate or
(12:35):
government communications howpeople are going to get that
information and what makes senseto them.
So that frame, that message,how are they getting it?
But a great example that's kindof easy to understand in a
podcast setting is you can'tjust say it once, you can't just
say it twice.
There's an often repeatedstatistic and it might be
(12:58):
apocryphal, especially it'schanged over time that people
need to hear things seven to 14times to really internalize an
act, and that's been repeatedfor a long time.
So we think how can people getthat information 7 to 14 times
(13:19):
or as often as possible?
And now one thing I really liketo focus on is how can we get
it out there over as many touchpoints?
As possible.
So of course, phones, desktops,computers, tablets are where
people are really getting things.
Tv, of course, still veryexpensive and not used the most
(13:41):
by a lot of the businesses I'mworking for and a lot of you
know the smaller governmentagencies are using it less.
Uh.
You see a lot for um, medicare,open enrollment.
You see the government using uhtv, but for me it was mostly,
you know, getting it out thereonline.
So it's using things like paidads, which there are different
(14:05):
biases towards paid ads.
Either oh, it's an ad, I ignoreit.
Then that was kind of sneaky.
They used sponsored content andit was light gray that it said
sponsored, hard to see on white,I'm not sure that's a little
deceptive.
So that was a different biastowards it.
So you've just got to really berepetitive with that and that's
(14:26):
something we try over and overagain to be effective doing.
Peter Woolfolk (14:33):
You know, one of the things that as I listen to
you talk about that, that comesto mind that some years ago I
was doing some lobbying for AT&There in Nashville because they
wanted to get cable systems intoall over the state.
But the biggest issue for themwere and where the tough spots
(14:54):
came were rural areas.
You know you don't have a lotof people, but you've got to put
out a lot of cables to get thesystem there and the government
required it.
So there was a lot ofnegotiation that had to go on
about that, you know, in termsof how people receive it, but it
was imperative that they did ifthey wanted to receive the
license to do that.
(15:15):
So you know they had to sitdown with the government to
decide what they were going todo and, you know, make the
arrangements.
I mean that's the bottom line.
So those are some of the otherthings that have to be.
When you talk about experienceyou have to deal with.
You know how do people gettheir information?
Yes, I mean they get thenewspaper, but the government.
If you want to have that cableTV system out there which they
(15:38):
wanted them to do because thegovernment also uses it, then
you've got to put the wires outthere, like it or not, and
expensive or not, and you findsome way to pay for it.
But it has to be done.
Joshua Altman (15:50):
Yeah, actually I've always found the economics
and social area around wiringToday it's fiber, but getting
that cable laid across theentire country just to be one of
the most interestingcommunications challenges.
I think it's been done verywell because we have, you know,
(16:12):
first cable, first phone, thencable TV and now, you know,
high-speed Internet across a lotof the country.
And it's a lot of land to cover.
So you would know, having donethat with AT&T, it's just, even
in one state it's a lot to coverand we do a great job Overall.
There are, of course, patcheswhere it's not present or it's
(16:36):
slower, but over time it doesreach.
Peter Woolfolk (16:39):
Mm-hmm, tell us a little bit about, let's say,
maybe some of the morecompelling projects that you've
been working on that had thebiggest mountain to climb to
solve the problem.
You know but through you know,your experiences and joining
with other colleagues, that youdid come up with a way to get
the job done.
Have you had those kind ofexperiences?
Joshua Altman (17:00):
Yeah.
So there are probably two bigyou know buckets companies will
fall into.
One is they are a total blankslate, they really haven't done
much in terms of theircommunications, and the other is
(17:22):
they've done a lot and it's alittle disjointed, and both of
those present two very differentchallenges.
So let's talk a little aboutyou know, the blank slate one.
You know they're a company.
They have been around for youknow maybe 10-ish years, but
(17:45):
outside of their kind of smallcommunity they're not as
well-known as they'd like to be.
A lot of that's kind of workingwith them and building up
audiences, because you kind ofhave to have that first.
So we look at do they haveemail lists Like what can we use
(18:07):
that they have already in place, because they're really not
starting as much from zero asthey often think.
They've collected emails overhowever many years of clients,
of vendors, of whomever theywork with.
They have their LinkedInnetworks.
(18:27):
They might have a Twitter Xpage that they occasionally used
.
So what can we do with that tomake it work a little better and
leverage existing things?
And once we kind of talk with aclient about that I was working
(18:52):
with a firm that did a littlebit of work in the energy sector
firm that did a little bit ofwork in the energy sector.
I don't want to give them awaybecause I don't want to disclose
what they've done, but they hada lot of that because they've
collected these things and oncewe told them here's what we can
(19:16):
do, they were a lot morecomfortable, because when they
think they have nothing this istrue with a lot of companies,
not just this one they get alittle nervous.
Mm-hmm.
And when they're nervous, youknow they may make.
You know this goes back tobehavioral science.
You know irrational decisionsare based on poor information.
(19:39):
People are more comfortable intheir decisions.
Mm-hmm.
So we took everything they hadkind of assigned some value to
it.
Okay, we can.
This is a really valuable emaillist you have, really valuable
email list you have.
We can use that and startcreating email sequences for
(20:02):
everything from onboarding, youknow, to get people on, and also
just email marketing, you know,tell people what you're doing,
just updates, mm-hmm.
And once we kind of startedfrom that, it was able to grow a
little more.
Peter Woolfolk (20:22):
One of the things that I think has come out
in terms of what you sort ofjust described there, and I
think it's important for publicrelations people to understand,
is that part of your job isproblem solving.
How do you help a client getover this particular hump or
clear this particular hurdle toget this particular message out,
or whatever it happens to be?
(20:43):
So the more and the wider yourexperiences have been, the more
exposure you've had to a lot ofoperations and processes and
electronics and computers and soforth really helps to solve
those problems, because that'swhy they have you there.
How can you help me get thisjob done?
(21:04):
And the better prepared you are, the better off you're going to
be.
Joshua Altman (21:09):
Yes, and you know we are, you know we look at
things as a particular job.
Of course they have a goal theywant to accomplish a particular
job.
Of course they have a goal theywant to accomplish, but we
think of it.
You know, we are, you know,chief communications officers
for our clients, uh, which meansthat we are fractional.
So it is much more.
We are integrated into what youdo.
(21:30):
It's not you know we are hereto do your email marketing.
You know we are really here toshape perception and build trust
, maintain that trust long term.
So it's not we are just here tolaunch a product.
We are just here to manage yoursocial media.
It's how are all these thingsworking together?
Peter Woolfolk (21:56):
Now have you also been in a position where
you had to introduce them to newprograms and or platforms that
could facilitate the work thatthey're doing?
Joshua Altman (22:07):
All the time, okay, all the time.
It's a very common thing, andyou know, one of the reasons for
that is you know, we are thecommunications experts.
We're the experts atcommunicating your expertise.
You are the expert in whateverit is you do, be it healthcare,
energy, it, government.
(22:29):
We don't expect you to knowevery platform or every tool out
there, just like we are notexperts in, you know, performing
surgery if you're a healthcareclient Like we just aren't
because we are not experts inperforming surgery if you're a
healthcare client, we justaren't because we are not
surgeons.
So all the time it's kind ofbringing them in and there are
ways we do that to introducethese new products or new
(22:53):
platforms for them and usuallyit's easy.
There isn't a lot of pushbackin general because you know
we're not saying use product Aor use this email delivery
system.
It's much more.
We you know like using a coupleof these you know for email and
(23:18):
we'll give a list.
I'm not trying to endorse anyparticular product or service
third-party service here so I'mnot going to start selling them,
but here's a list of three orfour that we've used.
Here are the benefits anddrawbacks to each, because every
platform has ups and downs.
Nothing will do everything andnothing will do it all great.
(23:40):
So we lay it out that way and Ifound that when you provide
those options not limitlessoptions, but a discrete list of
three or four that kind of dosimilar things you know, email
marketing or social mediamanagement or research, if you
know, we're in an early stageand we kind of want to just know
(24:01):
the lay of the industry, getthat lay of the land there, how
we do it, and then they feelthey are a little more
comfortable and a lot of times Iget a response of well, it
doesn't really matter to uswhich platform you use, as long
(24:21):
as we get a result.
They're a little less concernedwith is it product A or product
B, they just want their thingdone.
They don't care if I useMicrosoft Word or Google Docs.
It makes no difference to themwho my email provider is Same
(24:44):
thing.
They just want to see thatvalue come out.
Peter Woolfolk (24:51):
Well, and I think it's important, as we just
mentioned, that you do pointthose things out to them,
because a lot of folks who havebeen in some of these jobs, when
you talk about the government,they've been there for years and
you know maybe they don't getthe exposure to the different
platforms that are coming out,because maybe their agency just
(25:11):
hadn't had a need for them andyou know they continue to do
things the way we as a lot offolks.
Well, this is the way we'vealways done it.
Well, maybe that started back,you know, years ago and things
have changed and so they do needthings.
I mean, yes, it's expeditious,it's there to help you do your
job better and faster, I guessis the best way I put it to
(25:33):
people and the government, forthe most part, can't afford them
because, I mean, some of thisstuff is really not outrageous
in cost.
Joshua Altman (25:49):
It's just effective in terms of being able
to use it and it helps you getyour job done quicker, faster
and, in some cases, better it is.
And you know you kind oftouched on, you know kind of
laying these options out.
That's what I do in pretty muchevery situation with a client
or on a project I'm working onis.
You know, I start with my veryfirst conversation before they
are even officially a client atthat point, and it says my job
is not to tell you only thingsyou want to hear, it's to give
(26:11):
you options, it's to wait, tellyou pros and cons, it's to tell
you challenges and help you makea decision.
And I'm here to work with youthrough that, but not only to
tell you the things that youwant to hear.
And I think that does helpbuild some confidence that they
(26:34):
know okay, from the verybeginning.
It's not all rosy.
There are pros and cons acrossthe board and I will be very
upfront with that.
Peter Woolfolk (26:46):
And I'm glad you mentioned that too, because
that was the very next thing Iwas going to say that all
decisions have consequences.
So the more you know about whatit is you want to get and you
want to have done and how youwant it to be done, here are
some of the platforms that canhelp you get there.
Maybe there's some pros andcons a little bit about this one
or that one, but you know,rather than you're still using
(27:10):
some.
You know old equipment.
Here's some new stuff that isbetter, is faster and it's
making your life a lot easier.
Joshua Altman (27:19):
That's what a lot of folks like to hear yeah, and
I think what they like to hearis that, plus, you know
especially you mentioned this-lower cost a lot of a lot of
these services.
You know they're out there andthey seem like it's just another
subscription.
I know we all have subscriptionfatigue, but they can when used
(27:43):
judiciously, improve results.
It doesn't mean go buy everysubscription to every service,
but the right ones can reallyhelp you, and some of these
products do make a hugedifference.
Peter Woolfolk (28:03):
Well, you know the other thing too, that you
know particularly whether it'sthe government or otherwise.
There are a lot of platformsthat are out there that do
excellent jobs for you, and theyhappen to be free.
Oh yes, I do my recording.
I'm recording on Audacity rightnow.
It's one of the better audioplatforms in the world.
As a matter of fact, I've beenusing it for years and it is
(28:26):
maybe number one in somepeople's eyes and number two in
some others, but it has a lot offeatures, it can do a lot of
things for you and the cost iszero.
Joshua Altman (28:37):
Yeah, I've always been a fan of free, especially
open source, software and tools.
Some people knock it because,oh, it's free.
I'm like, yeah, it's free.
Peter Woolfolk (28:51):
And it's good.
Joshua Altman (28:51):
That's the other part of it Well, some of them
are great.
Peter Woolfolk (28:55):
Right.
Joshua Altman (28:56):
Some of them I wouldn't want to use.
Some of them I wouldn't want touse.
But the great ones really areon par or, in some cases, better
than subscription options.
They might require a littlemore technical knowledge to use,
but some of these free, opensource platforms are great.
(29:19):
They're out there.
Peter Woolfolk (29:20):
And they've been around for years, which sort of
validates how well they've beenworking.
Joshua Altman (29:26):
And you know you look at some of the platforms,
things like Audacity, others outthere.
You know some web hostingcontent management systems.
They have great communitiesbehind them that do this open
source work and some of them,some of these platforms,
actually have resources in majorcompanies that, since they use
(29:52):
them, those big companies putteams on maintaining them.
Peter Woolfolk (30:00):
Well, Jonathan, this has been a great discussion
on some of the things thatyou've done and how you've gone
about doing those.
Any closing remarks for theaudience?
Joshua Altman (30:09):
Yeah, I would always say, you know, one thing
we talk about is, you know,communicate strategically, not
voluminously.
Be smart about your message.
Peter Woolfolk (30:21):
Well, I certainly tip my hat and go
along with that one.
That's a hugely important thingto say, and let me say this I
want to thank you for coming onto the Public Relations Review
Podcast and sharing your wisdomwith our audience.
Joshua Altman (30:35):
Thank, you for having me.
Peter Woolfolk (30:36):
And I'm sure you're going to get a great deal
from this.
From my audience, I'd like tosay thank you for having me, and
I'm sure they're going to get agreat deal from this.
From my audience, I'd like tosay thank you for joining us
once again.
You continue to make us aglobal podcast and if you've
enjoyed the show, we'd certainlylike for you to go to the
publicrelationsreviewpodcastcomwebsite and leave a review for
us, and also share the fact thatyou've enjoyed this particular
(31:00):
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