February 10, 2025 • 24 mins
Join us for an engaging conversation with Dr. Tina McCorkindale, the dynamic president and CEO of the Institute for Public Relations, as she chats with host Peter Woolfolk to unveil the shifting tides of the public relations world through groundbreaking research. Discover how Dr. McCorkindale manages to lead a Florida-based organization from Seattle, harnessing the power of technology to transcend geographical boundaries. We'll dive into IPR's pivotal research efforts, including a fascinating study with Peppercom on the evolving media landscape, and explore how PR leaders can fortify their strategic roles, particularly in crisis management and reputation building. Prepare to gain valuable insights into how educating boards of directors on modern media can enhance organizational dynamics and ensure communication leaders are integral to the leadership team.
Explore the intricacies of internal communication with us, drawing inspiration from the show "Undercover Boss" to spotlight the communication chasm often found between senior leaders and their teams. Recent study findings point to disparities in work-life balance and value alignment across organizational levels, suggesting a pressing need for authentic dialogue. We'll discuss actionable strategies for bridging these gaps, advocate for supporting local journalism as a vital information source, and unveil the free resources available on our website to help tackle organizational challenges. Whether you're a PR veteran or just kicking off your career, this episode equips you with the tools to enhance your role as a strategic partner in your organization.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:03):
Welcome.
This is the Public RelationsReview Podcast, a program to
discuss the many facets ofpublic relations with seasoned
professionals, educators,authors and others.
Now here is your host, peterWoolfolk.
Peter Woolfolk (00:24):
Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast
and to our listeners all acrossAmerica and around the world.
Now, Apple has ranked thispodcast among the top 1% of
podcasts worldwide, so thank youto all of our guests and
listeners for making thispossible.
So if you enjoy the podcast, wecertainly would like to get a
review from you.
Now a question for the audienceAre you familiar with the
(00:47):
Institute for Public Relationsand the many services they offer
the public relationsprofessional?
Well, in addition to PR research, they also create, curate and
promote research and initiativesthat empower professionals with
actionable insights andintelligence they can put to
immediate use.
My guest today will expand onthese benefits, and she is Dr
(01:10):
Tina McCorkindale, APR, and thepresident and CEO of the
Institute for Public Relations,a nonprofit research think tank
on advocating and advancing thepublic relations industry
through research and promotingbest practices.
Ipr is located at theUniversity of Florida in
Gainesville.
She has more than 20 years ofacademic teaching experience and
(01:31):
over a decade in corporatecommunication and analytics, and
she joins me today from SeattleWashington, Tina welcome to the
podcast.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (01:42):
Hi, thank you so much for having me,
Peter.
I really appreciate it.
Peter Woolfolk (01:45):
Well, let's start with something that
obviously got my attention rightquick.
You are head of the Institutefor Public Relations in Florida,
yet you live in Seattle.
Just talk briefly about how youcommute, how you manage that.
That's not driving from thesuburbs.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (02:04):
I would imagine that there's a lot of
Zoom activities involved in that.
There are a lot of Zoomactivities and a lot of travel.
At IPR we host events all overthe world, so I travel a lot.
I am a frequent flyer, with ashout out to Alaska Airlines for
always supporting my travel.
Peter Woolfolk (02:25):
Well, that's good to hear.
So let's start, since you doboth research and, as you say,
some actionable insights andintelligence available.
Let's talk about some of theresearch you do that might be
applicable to, and how it'sapplicable to, some of the PR
people.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (02:41):
Sure.
So, we do a few things.
Pr people, sure, so we do a fewthings.
One is we conduct researchourselves and then what the
topics that are decided are fromour trustees, what they believe
are the most important issuesof the day, and we do those
through also our commissions andcenters of excellence.
And then we also curateresearch, we help sponsor
(03:02):
research and give awards forresearch, and it's really the
function of our mission to makesure that practitioners of all
levels have insights that make adifference.
So some of the research thatwe've done recently is we
partnered with Peppercom on aresearch study looking at the
media landscape.
So we surveyed chiefcommunications officers and we
(03:25):
surveyed media relationsprofessionals to find out what
are they, what are some of thechallenges, what is the current
state of the media industry andwhat do they see looking ahead.
So once we do surveys orcontent analysis or whatever
we're doing and identify what isthe current state, then we can
(03:46):
help give recommendations basedon the data.
So, for example, one thing thatwe noticed with our discussions
is that the board of directorsof organizations seems to be
less familiar with the medialandscape then chief comms
officers in the C-suite.
(04:06):
So with that, one of therecommendations we gave was
around how to educate and whatneeds to be done to educate
board of directors about themedia landscape, because it
makes a huge difference.
If your board of directors isstill very traditional, they're
not really thinking of sponsoredcontent or how to manage
(04:27):
influencers, then it affects theorganization's growth and how
they build awareness and managetheir reputation.
Peter Woolfolk (04:35):
Well, I would also think that, as you said,
because, as they call it theC-suite a lot of people are not
familiar with public relationsand its benefits, so that sort
of, I would say, explaining itto them and the benefits that
accrue from it could be very,very crucial.
Dr. Tina McCorkindal (04:51):
Absolutely , and it also shows how the
comms leader is a strategicpartner for the organization.
Peter Woolfolk (04:59):
And the importance of public relations.
Let me ask you is there anysort of training you mentioned?
You know research, but is thereany sort of training or way
that your comms people can giveto their C-suite executives to
make sure they understand thevalue of the PR and
communications of the department?
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (05:20):
Yeah, I think it's not necessarily.
We don't do training on thatspecifically.
Now we're developing a researchboot camp to help people be
better at distilling insightsand understanding research and
how it applies, andunderstanding research and how
it applies.
But I think one of the bestways for chief communications
(05:41):
officers or communicationexecutives is it's demonstrating
their value, so it's ensuringthat if there is some sort of
issue in the organization orsome sort of campaign internally
or externally, that they are apartner and they have their very
solution-oriented.
Or when there's a brand issueor a reputation issue or a
(06:02):
potential crisis, that they taketheir expertise and they work
with the C-suite or whoever theleadership is of the
organization to help steer themin the best path forward.
Peter Woolfolk (06:18):
You know, a lot of times it's important and
depending upon the gravity ofthe issue, that it's hugely
important that the chairman, thepresident, vice president, some
C-suite people speak out andget in front of things so that
their audience can see thatthey're serious about addressing
whatever the issue is.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (06:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I would say that someorganizations or some leaders,
their initial reaction is to saynothing and that's like the
wrong, that's the wrong actionto take.
So communication leaders canhelp offer counsel into what the
perceptions of both internalstakeholders your employees and
(06:59):
external stakeholders, whichincludes customers, media
analysts, the community, etc.
Is also very valuable forhelping the CEO or the leader
understand the implicationsbased on the people who are
involved in whatever scenario itis on the people who are
involved, in whatever scenarioit is.
Peter Woolfolk (07:21):
One of the things that I've noticed in my
pathway along the publicrelations road is that some
communications directors don'thave direct contact with the
C-suite.
They might have to go throughsomebody to get up there and
that person that they have to gothrough to get there might not
have a full understanding andappreciation of the importance
of good, solid communications.
I hope that there's some waythat that can be fixed or you
(07:45):
can demonstrate to people thatthat communication needs to be
fully understood by those at thetop so that the wheels don't
come off at the wrong time.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (07:53):
Yeah, absolutely, it's really
important.
Don't come off at the wrongtime.
Yeah, absolutely, it's reallyimportant, and I think we're not
100% there yet, but I know thatCorn Ferry they conduct like a
study of chief communicationsofficers and there has been
growth in terms of thepercentage of leaders who do
report directly to the CEO,which even the research we've
done have found that that is thebest reporting structure.
(08:16):
However, it's also verydependent on the organization
and who you're reporting throughfor sure?
Peter Woolfolk (08:25):
Well, I certainly noticed that when I
was asked to come down to alocal university that's the
reason I came to Nashville fromWashington DC was that president
of the university asked me tocome down and head up the
communications department atthis university and my first
question is well, you have acommunications team down there.
Why do you need me down there?
Well, you know, we're not verycomfortable with the work that
(08:47):
they've been doing and sometimesthe people in those positions
have not had the exposure.
And let me say right quick,I've worked in Congress for the
chairman of a major committee.
I was a member of the Clintonadministration, so I've had
(09:08):
contact and I understand howimportant it is that the people
who are seen in responsiblepositions have the opportunity
to fully understand what's goingon, without it being watered
down, and the importance oftheir response to those things.
That's why I just wanted to atleast bring that particular
issue up.
That conduit has to be sort ofwithout a lot of roadblocks.
Dr. Tina McCorkindal (09:23):
Absolutely , and it also helps you respond
faster and be more agile.
Peter Woolfolk (09:28):
Well, what other sort of things are that?
I mean, that's one particularimportant.
Do you have any other sort ofresearch that you think might be
important to public relationsprofessionals?
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (09:38):
Yes, we do have a study that's coming
out in Q1, and that is lookingat employee engagement
specifically in the publicrelations industry, and my
colleague, olivia Farhardo,managed this study and we're
doing this study with theGrossman Group and we looked at
engagement specifically of commsprofessionals, because there's
(10:00):
not a lot in that area for us.
I mean there's employeeengagement in general, but I
feel like PR people are very wehave very different sort of
lifestyles, very differentinteractions and organizations.
We're responsible for multiplestakeholders, we deal with
crises, we have social media,which is right.
It's rarely a nine to five jobfor us.
(10:23):
So in that study we looked atall sorts of different factors,
such as relationship with othersin the organization, the type
of work you do, flexibility,your relationship with your
supervisor, return to officepolicies.
I mean all these differentfactors and this is like such a
tremendous study and there'ssome really interesting findings
(10:46):
there, like, for example,almost half of communicators
agree that their organizationhas undergone too many changes
within the past year.
And that affects their retention, and also that there needs more
work on how to improvelistening and having formal
listening structures within theorganization, and also
(11:08):
emphasizing the importance ofmental health.
And what we've foundconsistently in this study and a
study we did on disabilities inthe workplace is that schedule
flexibility makes such asignificant difference with
employee satisfaction andengagement right and even like
having a best friend at work,having really great supervisor
(11:29):
relationships.
So this is this is such aintense study that I highly
recommend.
This is what I would call atwo-glass-of-wine study.
That's where you sit down withtwo glasses of wine and you read
through the study when it comesout.
It's so good and there's somuch great information.
But Olivia on our team did sucha great job with it and I truly
(11:55):
I loved reading it and goingthrough it, so it's fascinating.
Peter Woolfolk (11:59):
You know, one of the things as we were talking
came to mind to me was thatthere used to be a show called
Undercover Boss.
Oh yeah, I'm totally familiarwith that show.
Oh, that's right.
Well, just for our listeners,what happened was the boss went
in disguise into a list ofremote parts of the company and
probably out of town or whatever, to find out what was really
(12:20):
going on.
And a lot of times he or shemight ask about well, how about
this program?
Well, we've never heard of thatprogram, you know, we didn't
know anything about it.
And you guys, well, we've neverheard of that program, you know
, we didn't know anything aboutit.
So some of the things thatpeople in C-suite think should
be happening are not, but theydon't know.
(12:43):
Because whatever informationthey're getting from who is over
that particular area is notgiving all the accurate
information, for whatever reason.
So that conduit communicationsconduit has to be thorough, has
to be accurate, and people haveto have confidence that it's
going to work, that if we'regoing to do what you ask us to
do, that you're going to respondthe way we think you should
respond.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (13:02):
Yes, and you know, one of the things we
did the way we did find one ofthe findings of the study was
that senior leadershipexperiences work differently.
People with higher senioritywere more likely to report
better work-life balance,schedule flexibility, value
alignment than people at otherlevels of the organization.
And what we've alsotraditionally found in other
(13:23):
studies is that seniorleadership whenever we have
senior leaders or executives toevaluate their work or how well
they're doing or what theirperception of their employees
are, are they always rate itmuch higher.
You know they're like yes, ouremployees are more satisfied at
the entry level and mid-level,and that's actually the but then
(13:45):
when we ask the entry mid-levelto rate at there, it's like
usually pretty significant,significant gap.
Peter Woolfolk (13:51):
So well, but it's interesting yeah, I agree
with you.
That's one of the reasons thatI think that there should be
some direct communicationbetween employees and senior
staff, so that everybody can beon the same page and, you know,
are we doing what we said we'regoing to do and is it working?
So that dialogue has to takeplace just to make sure that.
Uh, you know, we all agree thatwhat's supposed to be happening
(14:14):
is happening the way it'ssupposed to happen.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (14:16):
Yeah, absolutely, and I do believe
your comment about undercover,bob, when you're in an
organization, whether it's B2Band you have like factory lines
or production lines, or whetheryou have retail or whether
you're in health care is thatsenior leaders must must go
there and actually witnesswhat's happening every day, not
(14:37):
visit and do a town hall, butshadow people to really see, see
the experience that others haveand talk to people who are
there about their ownexperiences, those employees and
the people who may be visiting,whatever sort of establishment
it is, or so on.
I think that gives you suchgreat insight and it also alerts
(14:57):
you to any sort of processissues or rule issues that may
be hindering whether it'semployee satisfaction or even
helping the organization be itsbest.
Because I feel like we enact alot of rules in the organization
.
We have a lot of like what wefound.
People say there's too manychanges in organizations and it
(15:18):
just kind of it gets exhaustingfor people.
Peter Woolfolk (15:20):
I agree with you .
Now we'd also mention that youhave some actionable insights
and intelligence that PRprofessionals can put to
immediate use.
What are some of those insightsand intelligence that are
available?
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (15:33):
Yeah, so I think one of those is an
example of this employeeengagement study.
So we give recommendations onwhat people can do and what they
can easily do now, and part ofthat is ensuring that you have
frequent conversations with yoursupervisors about the progress
at work right, or teachingpeople how to give constructive
(15:56):
feedback, teaching people how togive good feedback that's
helpful to them to make adifference.
We also, in one of our studiesthat we do in disinformation, we
are strong supporters of localjournalism, so we do encourage
organizations to help supportadvertising and subscriptions of
local journalism.
So we do encourageorganizations to help support
advertising and subscriptions oflocal journalism, because local
(16:18):
journalism, local newspapersand broadcasts are the most
trusted sources for bothDemocrats and Republicans, and
why that's important istypically we see huge gaps in
trust depending on the type ofmedia right.
So, Democrats are significantlymore likely to trust the New
York Times than Republicans, andRepublicans are significantly
(16:39):
more likely to trust Fox Newsthan Democrats.
But where they come together islocal journalism and you can
see right now, you know, or evenwhen there's weather issues,
when there's community issues,that's who you go to first,
whether it's online or whetherit's what you watch on
television.
So with that, that's one of thethings that we say this is a
(17:01):
media.
You can do this right now andsupport local journalism and
help fund nonprofits like theMacArthur Foundation, who can
help fund new nonprofit newsorganizations and things like
that you know.
Peter Woolfolk (17:15):
one of the things I want to say to our
listeners is that I have been onyour website and some of this
information you're talking aboutis easily downloadable.
So you they might want to thinkyou know either join or just go
on the website and, if it fitssome of the concerns that you
have, just download theinformation and you're off and
running yes, and you know wehave our website.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (17:37):
We have so many topics related to calm
and it's all for free.
All our information, ourwebsite, is available for free,
and that's one of the key partsof our mission is that we make
it accessible for everyone.
So, yeah, check out our website, it's a great website.
Peter Woolfolk (17:55):
You know and also you know it's not all
reading.
You've got a lot of videos thatgoes along with that
information as well.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (18:00):
Yes, we also do a great series that I am
so fortunate to participate inIn a Car with IPR, and that's
where we go to differentlocations and we interview
communication executives andfind out about their career
journey, what's on their mind,and we also do webinars and all
sorts of different programs.
And we have in-personconferences too.
(18:22):
We have a bridge conference wedo in Washington DC, and then we
also have a commissions andcenter summit that we do in New
York.
So we do a lot of programs aswell.
Peter Woolfolk (18:31):
Well, as I said, I'm from Washington DC and I'm
actually going to be moving backsometime this spring or this
summer, and once I get settledin, I'll keep an eye out for you
guys, because I do intend tocontinue the podcast from
Washington as well.
So the fact that you might beup there, we might have a chance
to cross paths sometime in thenear future.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (18:50):
That would be great.
Peter, I would love to meet youin person.
I always love when you connectwith someone in real life, that
you've formed a relationship onthe telephone or on Zoom or in
some other way.
Peter Woolfolk (19:06):
Now we've gone over a few things, is there
anything that you think that thelisteners should know about IPR
that we have not touched on?
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (19:14):
Yeah, I think just we're a very, such a
great organization and I wouldencourage everyone to get
involved as much as possible.
Like our research found thatprofessional development is so
important to people and it'sthat networking and connection.
So we have a couple programsthat people can join, like our
IPR Elevate or IPR Next Group,and really fantastic people, and
(19:39):
I think that's what we thriveon is connections and human
relationships, and that helpsmake us better people and
smarter people.
So that's my plug.
And just like what you're doing, peter, on your podcast, so
that's so important for peopleto hear about the latest and
greatest of what's happening.
So thank you for facilitatingthat as well.
Peter Woolfolk (20:00):
Well, you know, that's really the purpose that,
when I thought about puttingthis podcast together, my first
question to myself is what wouldI like to hear on a PR podcast?
And my answer to myself was I'dlike to hear information that I
can use every day, and sothat's one of the reasons that,
uh, you know, I think we'veperhaps grown as much as we have
(20:21):
in five years.
I don't, I don't think I'vementioned it to you, but we are
heard right now in 151 countriesaround the world, and that
covers 3050 cities.
So amazing it's nothing that wedid to do that.
It's one of those things thatobviously, whatever we're doing
is working and peopleappreciated that we've picked up
awards.
It's one of those things thatobviously, whatever we're doing
is working and peopleappreciated that.
We've picked up awards alongthe way, not only here, but
(20:43):
several from the United Kingdomas well.
So if it's working, I prettymuch stick with it.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (20:51):
I think it's fantastic, fantastic.
Peter Woolfolk (20:54):
Well, when I talked to your colleague I think
it was the Public AffairsCounselor he mentioned your name
.
Well, when I talked to yourcolleague I think it was the
Public Affairs Council hementioned your name.
That's why we reached out,because I look for information
that I can give to people, thatthey can use.
You know, everybody won't needeverything, but a lot of times I
get emails that do say hey, wereally did appreciate what
you've got.
(21:19):
One lady who was on the board ofPRSA said she was listening on
the way home and she took somenotes because we oh, I love that
, I love that, yes, and that wasvery Took some notes we could
use.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (21:26):
Yeah, doug Peekham, at the Public
Affairs Council they do somereally great research as well,
and that's what I'll also say isthat our industry is also so
amazing at connections among thedifferent industry
organizations.
That's one of my favorite partsas well.
We share research and we talkabout research, so it's
fantastic.
Peter Woolfolk (21:46):
Well, Tina, let me ask you if you've got any
closing remarks you'd like tomake to our audience.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (21:51):
Yeah, I would say I hope everyone has a
very healthy and happy year andthat they love what they do
every day, and I so appreciatethe opportunity to be here.
So thank you, peter.
Peter Woolfolk (22:04):
Well, good, thank you so very much.
My guest today has been Dr TinaMcCorkindale, apr, and she is
the president and CEO of theInstitute for Public Relations.
We certainly hope that you'veappreciated it and, if you do,
we certainly like to get areview from you and also share
this particular episode withyour friends and colleagues.
And don't forget to listen tothe next edition of the Public
(22:25):
Relations Review Podcast.
Announcer (22:27):
This podcast is produced by Communication
Strategies, an award-winningpublic relations and public
affairs firm headquartered inNashville, Tennessee.
Thank you for joining us.
Welcome.
This is the Public RelationsReview Podcast, a program to
discuss the many facets ofpublic relations with seasoned
professionals, educators,authors and others.
Now here is your host, peterWoolfolk.
Peter Woolfolk (00:24):
Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast
and to our listeners all acrossAmerica and around the world.
Now, Apple has ranked thispodcast among the top 1% of
podcasts worldwide, so thank youto all of our guests and
listeners for making thispossible.
So if you enjoy the podcast, wecertainly would like to get a
review from you.
Now a question for the audienceAre you familiar with the
(00:47):
Institute for Public Relationsand the many services they offer
the public relationsprofessional?
Well, in addition to PR research, they also create, curate and
promote research and initiativesthat empower professionals with
actionable insights andintelligence they can put to
immediate use.
My guest today will expand onthese benefits, and she is Dr
(01:10):
Tina McCorkindale, APR, and thepresident and CEO of the
Institute for Public Relations,a nonprofit research think tank
on advocating and advancing thepublic relations industry
through research and promotingbest practices.
Ipr is located at theUniversity of Florida in
Gainesville.
She has more than 20 years ofacademic teaching experience and
(01:31):
over a decade in corporatecommunication and analytics, and
she joins me today from SeattleWashington, Tina welcome to the
podcast.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (01:42):
Hi, thank you so much for having me,
Peter.
I really appreciate it.
Peter Woolfolk (01:45):
Well, let's start with something that
obviously got my attention rightquick.
You are head of the Institutefor Public Relations in Florida,
yet you live in Seattle.
Just talk briefly about how youcommute, how you manage that.
That's not driving from thesuburbs.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (02:04):
I would imagine that there's a lot of
Zoom activities involved in that.
There are a lot of Zoomactivities and a lot of travel.
At IPR we host events all overthe world, so I travel a lot.
I am a frequent flyer, with ashout out to Alaska Airlines for
always supporting my travel.
Peter Woolfolk (02:25):
Well, that's good to hear.
So let's start, since you doboth research and, as you say,
some actionable insights andintelligence available.
Let's talk about some of theresearch you do that might be
applicable to, and how it'sapplicable to, some of the PR
people.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (02:41):
Sure.
So, we do a few things.
Pr people, sure, so we do a fewthings.
One is we conduct researchourselves and then what the
topics that are decided are fromour trustees, what they believe
are the most important issuesof the day, and we do those
through also our commissions andcenters of excellence.
And then we also curateresearch, we help sponsor
(03:02):
research and give awards forresearch, and it's really the
function of our mission to makesure that practitioners of all
levels have insights that make adifference.
So some of the research thatwe've done recently is we
partnered with Peppercom on aresearch study looking at the
media landscape.
So we surveyed chiefcommunications officers and we
(03:25):
surveyed media relationsprofessionals to find out what
are they, what are some of thechallenges, what is the current
state of the media industry andwhat do they see looking ahead.
So once we do surveys orcontent analysis or whatever
we're doing and identify what isthe current state, then we can
(03:46):
help give recommendations basedon the data.
So, for example, one thing thatwe noticed with our discussions
is that the board of directorsof organizations seems to be
less familiar with the medialandscape then chief comms
officers in the C-suite.
(04:06):
So with that, one of therecommendations we gave was
around how to educate and whatneeds to be done to educate
board of directors about themedia landscape, because it
makes a huge difference.
If your board of directors isstill very traditional, they're
not really thinking of sponsoredcontent or how to manage
(04:27):
influencers, then it affects theorganization's growth and how
they build awareness and managetheir reputation.
Peter Woolfolk (04:35):
Well, I would also think that, as you said,
because, as they call it theC-suite a lot of people are not
familiar with public relationsand its benefits, so that sort
of, I would say, explaining itto them and the benefits that
accrue from it could be very,very crucial.
Dr. Tina McCorkindal (04:51):
Absolutely , and it also shows how the
comms leader is a strategicpartner for the organization.
Peter Woolfolk (04:59):
And the importance of public relations.
Let me ask you is there anysort of training you mentioned?
You know research, but is thereany sort of training or way
that your comms people can giveto their C-suite executives to
make sure they understand thevalue of the PR and
communications of the department?
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (05:20):
Yeah, I think it's not necessarily.
We don't do training on thatspecifically.
Now we're developing a researchboot camp to help people be
better at distilling insightsand understanding research and
how it applies, andunderstanding research and how
it applies.
But I think one of the bestways for chief communications
(05:41):
officers or communicationexecutives is it's demonstrating
their value, so it's ensuringthat if there is some sort of
issue in the organization orsome sort of campaign internally
or externally, that they are apartner and they have their very
solution-oriented.
Or when there's a brand issueor a reputation issue or a
(06:02):
potential crisis, that they taketheir expertise and they work
with the C-suite or whoever theleadership is of the
organization to help steer themin the best path forward.
Peter Woolfolk (06:18):
You know, a lot of times it's important and
depending upon the gravity ofthe issue, that it's hugely
important that the chairman, thepresident, vice president, some
C-suite people speak out andget in front of things so that
their audience can see thatthey're serious about addressing
whatever the issue is.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (06:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I would say that someorganizations or some leaders,
their initial reaction is to saynothing and that's like the
wrong, that's the wrong actionto take.
So communication leaders canhelp offer counsel into what the
perceptions of both internalstakeholders your employees and
(06:59):
external stakeholders, whichincludes customers, media
analysts, the community, etc.
Is also very valuable forhelping the CEO or the leader
understand the implicationsbased on the people who are
involved in whatever scenario itis on the people who are
involved, in whatever scenarioit is.
Peter Woolfolk (07:21):
One of the things that I've noticed in my
pathway along the publicrelations road is that some
communications directors don'thave direct contact with the
C-suite.
They might have to go throughsomebody to get up there and
that person that they have to gothrough to get there might not
have a full understanding andappreciation of the importance
of good, solid communications.
I hope that there's some waythat that can be fixed or you
(07:45):
can demonstrate to people thatthat communication needs to be
fully understood by those at thetop so that the wheels don't
come off at the wrong time.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (07:53):
Yeah, absolutely, it's really
important.
Don't come off at the wrongtime.
Yeah, absolutely, it's reallyimportant, and I think we're not
100% there yet, but I know thatCorn Ferry they conduct like a
study of chief communicationsofficers and there has been
growth in terms of thepercentage of leaders who do
report directly to the CEO,which even the research we've
done have found that that is thebest reporting structure.
(08:16):
However, it's also verydependent on the organization
and who you're reporting throughfor sure?
Peter Woolfolk (08:25):
Well, I certainly noticed that when I
was asked to come down to alocal university that's the
reason I came to Nashville fromWashington DC was that president
of the university asked me tocome down and head up the
communications department atthis university and my first
question is well, you have acommunications team down there.
Why do you need me down there?
Well, you know, we're not verycomfortable with the work that
(08:47):
they've been doing and sometimesthe people in those positions
have not had the exposure.
And let me say right quick,I've worked in Congress for the
chairman of a major committee.
I was a member of the Clintonadministration, so I've had
(09:08):
contact and I understand howimportant it is that the people
who are seen in responsiblepositions have the opportunity
to fully understand what's goingon, without it being watered
down, and the importance oftheir response to those things.
That's why I just wanted to atleast bring that particular
issue up.
That conduit has to be sort ofwithout a lot of roadblocks.
Dr. Tina McCorkindal (09:23):
Absolutely , and it also helps you respond
faster and be more agile.
Peter Woolfolk (09:28):
Well, what other sort of things are that?
I mean, that's one particularimportant.
Do you have any other sort ofresearch that you think might be
important to public relationsprofessionals?
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (09:38):
Yes, we do have a study that's coming
out in Q1, and that is lookingat employee engagement
specifically in the publicrelations industry, and my
colleague, olivia Farhardo,managed this study and we're
doing this study with theGrossman Group and we looked at
engagement specifically of commsprofessionals, because there's
(10:00):
not a lot in that area for us.
I mean there's employeeengagement in general, but I
feel like PR people are very wehave very different sort of
lifestyles, very differentinteractions and organizations.
We're responsible for multiplestakeholders, we deal with
crises, we have social media,which is right.
It's rarely a nine to five jobfor us.
(10:23):
So in that study we looked atall sorts of different factors,
such as relationship with othersin the organization, the type
of work you do, flexibility,your relationship with your
supervisor, return to officepolicies.
I mean all these differentfactors and this is like such a
tremendous study and there'ssome really interesting findings
(10:46):
there, like, for example,almost half of communicators
agree that their organizationhas undergone too many changes
within the past year.
And that affects their retention, and also that there needs more
work on how to improvelistening and having formal
listening structures within theorganization, and also
(11:08):
emphasizing the importance ofmental health.
And what we've foundconsistently in this study and a
study we did on disabilities inthe workplace is that schedule
flexibility makes such asignificant difference with
employee satisfaction andengagement right and even like
having a best friend at work,having really great supervisor
(11:29):
relationships.
So this is this is such aintense study that I highly
recommend.
This is what I would call atwo-glass-of-wine study.
That's where you sit down withtwo glasses of wine and you read
through the study when it comesout.
It's so good and there's somuch great information.
But Olivia on our team did sucha great job with it and I truly
(11:55):
I loved reading it and goingthrough it, so it's fascinating.
Peter Woolfolk (11:59):
You know, one of the things as we were talking
came to mind to me was thatthere used to be a show called
Undercover Boss.
Oh yeah, I'm totally familiarwith that show.
Oh, that's right.
Well, just for our listeners,what happened was the boss went
in disguise into a list ofremote parts of the company and
probably out of town or whatever, to find out what was really
(12:20):
going on.
And a lot of times he or shemight ask about well, how about
this program?
Well, we've never heard of thatprogram, you know, we didn't
know anything about it.
And you guys, well, we've neverheard of that program, you know
, we didn't know anything aboutit.
So some of the things thatpeople in C-suite think should
be happening are not, but theydon't know.
(12:43):
Because whatever informationthey're getting from who is over
that particular area is notgiving all the accurate
information, for whatever reason.
So that conduit communicationsconduit has to be thorough, has
to be accurate, and people haveto have confidence that it's
going to work, that if we'regoing to do what you ask us to
do, that you're going to respondthe way we think you should
respond.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (13:02):
Yes, and you know, one of the things we
did the way we did find one ofthe findings of the study was
that senior leadershipexperiences work differently.
People with higher senioritywere more likely to report
better work-life balance,schedule flexibility, value
alignment than people at otherlevels of the organization.
And what we've alsotraditionally found in other
(13:23):
studies is that seniorleadership whenever we have
senior leaders or executives toevaluate their work or how well
they're doing or what theirperception of their employees
are, are they always rate itmuch higher.
You know they're like yes, ouremployees are more satisfied at
the entry level and mid-level,and that's actually the but then
(13:45):
when we ask the entry mid-levelto rate at there, it's like
usually pretty significant,significant gap.
Peter Woolfolk (13:51):
So well, but it's interesting yeah, I agree
with you.
That's one of the reasons thatI think that there should be
some direct communicationbetween employees and senior
staff, so that everybody can beon the same page and, you know,
are we doing what we said we'regoing to do and is it working?
So that dialogue has to takeplace just to make sure that.
Uh, you know, we all agree thatwhat's supposed to be happening
(14:14):
is happening the way it'ssupposed to happen.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (14:16):
Yeah, absolutely, and I do believe
your comment about undercover,bob, when you're in an
organization, whether it's B2Band you have like factory lines
or production lines, or whetheryou have retail or whether
you're in health care is thatsenior leaders must must go
there and actually witnesswhat's happening every day, not
(14:37):
visit and do a town hall, butshadow people to really see, see
the experience that others haveand talk to people who are
there about their ownexperiences, those employees and
the people who may be visiting,whatever sort of establishment
it is, or so on.
I think that gives you suchgreat insight and it also alerts
(14:57):
you to any sort of processissues or rule issues that may
be hindering whether it'semployee satisfaction or even
helping the organization be itsbest.
Because I feel like we enact alot of rules in the organization
.
We have a lot of like what wefound.
People say there's too manychanges in organizations and it
(15:18):
just kind of it gets exhaustingfor people.
Peter Woolfolk (15:20):
I agree with you .
Now we'd also mention that youhave some actionable insights
and intelligence that PRprofessionals can put to
immediate use.
What are some of those insightsand intelligence that are
available?
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (15:33):
Yeah, so I think one of those is an
example of this employeeengagement study.
So we give recommendations onwhat people can do and what they
can easily do now, and part ofthat is ensuring that you have
frequent conversations with yoursupervisors about the progress
at work right, or teachingpeople how to give constructive
(15:56):
feedback, teaching people how togive good feedback that's
helpful to them to make adifference.
We also, in one of our studiesthat we do in disinformation, we
are strong supporters of localjournalism, so we do encourage
organizations to help supportadvertising and subscriptions of
local journalism.
So we do encourageorganizations to help support
advertising and subscriptions oflocal journalism, because local
(16:18):
journalism, local newspapersand broadcasts are the most
trusted sources for bothDemocrats and Republicans, and
why that's important istypically we see huge gaps in
trust depending on the type ofmedia right.
So, Democrats are significantlymore likely to trust the New
York Times than Republicans, andRepublicans are significantly
(16:39):
more likely to trust Fox Newsthan Democrats.
But where they come together islocal journalism and you can
see right now, you know, or evenwhen there's weather issues,
when there's community issues,that's who you go to first,
whether it's online or whetherit's what you watch on
television.
So with that, that's one of thethings that we say this is a
(17:01):
media.
You can do this right now andsupport local journalism and
help fund nonprofits like theMacArthur Foundation, who can
help fund new nonprofit newsorganizations and things like
that you know.
Peter Woolfolk (17:15):
one of the things I want to say to our
listeners is that I have been onyour website and some of this
information you're talking aboutis easily downloadable.
So you they might want to thinkyou know either join or just go
on the website and, if it fitssome of the concerns that you
have, just download theinformation and you're off and
running yes, and you know wehave our website.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (17:37):
We have so many topics related to calm
and it's all for free.
All our information, ourwebsite, is available for free,
and that's one of the key partsof our mission is that we make
it accessible for everyone.
So, yeah, check out our website, it's a great website.
Peter Woolfolk (17:55):
You know and also you know it's not all
reading.
You've got a lot of videos thatgoes along with that
information as well.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (18:00):
Yes, we also do a great series that I am
so fortunate to participate inIn a Car with IPR, and that's
where we go to differentlocations and we interview
communication executives andfind out about their career
journey, what's on their mind,and we also do webinars and all
sorts of different programs.
And we have in-personconferences too.
(18:22):
We have a bridge conference wedo in Washington DC, and then we
also have a commissions andcenter summit that we do in New
York.
So we do a lot of programs aswell.
Peter Woolfolk (18:31):
Well, as I said, I'm from Washington DC and I'm
actually going to be moving backsometime this spring or this
summer, and once I get settledin, I'll keep an eye out for you
guys, because I do intend tocontinue the podcast from
Washington as well.
So the fact that you might beup there, we might have a chance
to cross paths sometime in thenear future.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (18:50):
That would be great.
Peter, I would love to meet youin person.
I always love when you connectwith someone in real life, that
you've formed a relationship onthe telephone or on Zoom or in
some other way.
Peter Woolfolk (19:06):
Now we've gone over a few things, is there
anything that you think that thelisteners should know about IPR
that we have not touched on?
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (19:14):
Yeah, I think just we're a very, such a
great organization and I wouldencourage everyone to get
involved as much as possible.
Like our research found thatprofessional development is so
important to people and it'sthat networking and connection.
So we have a couple programsthat people can join, like our
IPR Elevate or IPR Next Group,and really fantastic people, and
(19:39):
I think that's what we thriveon is connections and human
relationships, and that helpsmake us better people and
smarter people.
So that's my plug.
And just like what you're doing, peter, on your podcast, so
that's so important for peopleto hear about the latest and
greatest of what's happening.
So thank you for facilitatingthat as well.
Peter Woolfolk (20:00):
Well, you know, that's really the purpose that,
when I thought about puttingthis podcast together, my first
question to myself is what wouldI like to hear on a PR podcast?
And my answer to myself was I'dlike to hear information that I
can use every day, and sothat's one of the reasons that,
uh, you know, I think we'veperhaps grown as much as we have
(20:21):
in five years.
I don't, I don't think I'vementioned it to you, but we are
heard right now in 151 countriesaround the world, and that
covers 3050 cities.
So amazing it's nothing that wedid to do that.
It's one of those things thatobviously, whatever we're doing
is working and peopleappreciated that we've picked up
awards.
It's one of those things thatobviously, whatever we're doing
is working and peopleappreciated that.
We've picked up awards alongthe way, not only here, but
(20:43):
several from the United Kingdomas well.
So if it's working, I prettymuch stick with it.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (20:51):
I think it's fantastic, fantastic.
Peter Woolfolk (20:54):
Well, when I talked to your colleague I think
it was the Public AffairsCounselor he mentioned your name
.
Well, when I talked to yourcolleague I think it was the
Public Affairs Council hementioned your name.
That's why we reached out,because I look for information
that I can give to people, thatthey can use.
You know, everybody won't needeverything, but a lot of times I
get emails that do say hey, wereally did appreciate what
you've got.
(21:19):
One lady who was on the board ofPRSA said she was listening on
the way home and she took somenotes because we oh, I love that
, I love that, yes, and that wasvery Took some notes we could
use.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (21:26):
Yeah, doug Peekham, at the Public
Affairs Council they do somereally great research as well,
and that's what I'll also say isthat our industry is also so
amazing at connections among thedifferent industry
organizations.
That's one of my favorite partsas well.
We share research and we talkabout research, so it's
fantastic.
Peter Woolfolk (21:46):
Well, Tina, let me ask you if you've got any
closing remarks you'd like tomake to our audience.
Dr. Tina McCorkindale (21:51):
Yeah, I would say I hope everyone has a
very healthy and happy year andthat they love what they do
every day, and I so appreciatethe opportunity to be here.
So thank you, peter.
Peter Woolfolk (22:04):
Well, good, thank you so very much.
My guest today has been Dr TinaMcCorkindale, apr, and she is
the president and CEO of theInstitute for Public Relations.
We certainly hope that you'veappreciated it and, if you do,
we certainly like to get areview from you and also share
this particular episode withyour friends and colleagues.
And don't forget to listen tothe next edition of the Public
(22:25):
Relations Review Podcast.
Announcer (22:27):
This podcast is produced by Communication
Strategies, an award-winningpublic relations and public
affairs firm headquartered inNashville, Tennessee.
Thank you for joining us.
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