Christian Heavens: Golf Wasn’t Built for Me—But I’m Here Anyway

Matt Cook introduces Christian Heavens, discussing the stigma surrounding golf and Christian's early memories in the sport. They explore the influence of Tiger Woods and the growth of YouTube golf, emphasizing the mental aspects and the importance of feel in the game. Christian shares competitive experiences and advice for playing on the national stage, while delving into the financial and mental pressures of professional golf. They reflect on cherishing life moments, facing negativity, and Christian's Big Break experiences. The conversation turns to Christian's book, its themes, target audience, and release details, with sponsor mentions for Stark Health, Devereux Golf, and Tour Line.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Old white man's sport.

(00:01):
Right?
That was tragic.
That was tragic.
That was tragic.
It was embarrassing.
It was tragic.
We're coming to the game the way that we are,not the way that the game wants us.
And that's a lot of people are just coming intothe game, and I want you all to come to the
game the way that you are.

(00:24):
Welcome back, everybody, to Pull Hook Golf, thepodcast.
I'm your host, Matt Cook.
And on today's episode, we've got an awesomeguest that brings a perspective that really
hits different.
He's a professional golfer with over 20professional wins, a former collegiate standout
at Georgetown College, you know, a coach, aspeaker, and now an author of the upcoming

(00:44):
novel "Tour Line," which is right over here.
"Play Through the Pressure," a raw high-stakesstory about ambition, adversity, and the roads
we take to chase the game we love.
Welcome to the show, Christian Heavens.
Is it Heavens or Heathens?
No.
Heavens.
Okay.
Got it together.
I was like, man, let me make sure that I've gotthis right.
Right.
I meant to ask you beforehand because I'm like,man, what an awesome name, first of all, to be

(01:10):
Christian Heavens.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a lot of pressure.
That's definitely a lot of pressure there.
She put my mom, you know, that shows thebackground.
Right?
My mom, she raised me in the church.
I grew up in the church with those principlesand yeah, she put the pressure on me from
before birth.
That's for sure.
When you get a name like that, I mean, it cango many different directions.
Right.

(01:30):
But it is a strong name as we like to say inmedia.
Now, the journey into golf, let's start herebecause I love talking to anybody that has
played at a professional level and really findout kinda how you got into the game of golf.
Because I do find a lot of these stories kindof intermingle between different people, even
with my own story.
And so let's go all the way back to thebeginning.

(01:52):
How did you end up getting into the game ofgolf?
Man, back to the beginning, I mean, that's thebeginning, right?
Since I started, my grandfather got meintroduced to the game at the age of my first
Christmas.
He gave me a set of golf clubs, so I was sixmonths old.
And, you know, like, the area I'm from, EastSt.
Louis area, a lot of that's I depict, we'll getto it in the book where the main character is

(02:15):
from.
It's a rough area.
It's an area where you would not expect to seea golfer.
We had a lot of great athletes, right?
Basketball, football, that was the main sport.
Sure.
My uncle was a really good football player.
He played at Notre Dame.
Was an All-American, won championships withNotre Dame or won a championship with Notre
Dame.
My other uncle was a really good basketballplayer.

(02:36):
My grandfather loved golf and couldn't get theminto the game, you know, like they had the
stereotype, right?
It's, yeah, it's a soft sport, it's a weak, oldwhite man's sport, right?
And they just wouldn't, nobody would like toplay the game.
But my grandfather, he got into the game early,like, he's one of those old caddies from down
south that just, you know, caddied on thecourse, snuck on the course to play golf,

(02:56):
borrowed other, like, members' clubs while theywere going to play golf.
And he just really had that love for the game.
And when he finally got a hold of someone that,you know, shared that passion for the game or
could share the passion for the game with him,man, he just loved it.
So he would take me out to the golf course.
They helped raise me a lot with my mom.
Sure.
They helped her out a lot.
So they always took me to this golf course, youknow, whenever my mom was at work, they'd pick

(03:20):
me up from school.
My grandfather would take me out to GrandMoriah Golf Course out there, and he and his
buddies were playing, you know, all types ofgames on Tuesdays and Thursdays like skins
games, games I haven't heard of like rabbitsquirrel, just a whole bunch of weird stuff
that they would do, make up, and gamble.
But that was it, man.
Just from an early age, that's still like thoseare the fondest and the most cherished memories

(03:44):
I have of playing golf.
Just out there with my grandfather and hisbuddies that, you know, they had all these
weird names like Teddy, Scobie, all these typenames and they just were real characters, and
they just had a blast talking trash, playinggolf, and that was my introduction.
It wasn't quite the Tiger Woods era yet.
So that was like early '90s, and then Tigercame in '97.

(04:08):
So I was definitely heavily influenced by TigerWoods, sure.
But my introduction to the game and my DNA inthe game came from my grandfather and those old
guys who used to be caddies playing in the gameand hustling and gambling on the golf course.
So that was it.
It was my family.
My grandfather got me into it.
It was a big influence in my life.
What age did you start?

(04:29):
So yeah, like I said, I don't remember notbeing able to swing a golf club.
Okay.
Like I've always—there's videos of, you know,home VHS tapes where I'm swinging a comb this
big and I'm swinging it like a golf club.
Right?
Picking up a folded-up newspaper, rolled-upnewspaper article, and I'm swinging it like a
golf club.

(04:49):
So I've just always had a golf club in my hand.
And I realized how fortunate I was to be inthat situation.
Right?
Because access is very tough for people to getin the game of golf and I was fortunate enough
to have somebody there that really loved thegame of golf and was a good player too.
My grandfather was a really good player.
So it was fun to watch those guys.

(05:10):
It's funny as you talk about the trash talk andeverything like that because for so long, golf
did not want to be known for that at all.
And I feel like more recently, now that'sstarting to come out a bit more, and that was
kind of one of the purposes of creating thisshow in the first place.
And why it was called Pull Hook was because it,like, that's a bad shot.

(05:30):
Right?
Right.
So it's like, okay, let's talk about some ofthe more realistic, authentic things in the
game of golf that really happen where it's notreally talked about because as you kind of
mentioned, you know, it's kind of known as thewhite man's sport, the gentleman's game.
Right.
Right?
And we still hear that to this day, but we knowbetter now and especially being around pros and

(05:51):
so forth.
It's like, yeah.
You're gonna get some of that out there.
Yeah.
And again, we'll talk about it more right whenwe get into the book, but I exposed—I don't
know if exposed is the right word—but I broughtthat out in the book a lot.
Those different characters, those differentpersonalities where, like I said, growing up
with my grandfather and those guys, where theyhad like three or four groups of guys and there
were so many different personalities in there.

(06:13):
That's what we need in golf.
So we started missing that at some point where,you know, a lot of golfers just want to feel
like it's a lot of money involved in the gameof golf professionally.
So I understand them being zoned, like honedin, focused, just in their own game and worried
about themselves, but we miss the old Chi-ChiRodríguez's.
Right?
Those entertainers in the game, and I thinkthat's why YouTube golf is becoming so much

(06:37):
more popular now, right?
The Internet Invitational was really big notfor us golf but because of the access and the
personalities and the things outside of golfthat really showed how people genuinely are.
Right?
I totally agree.
So I think that was—I mean, I didn't get achance to watch much of it—but I really think
that's a part of the game that we may see comeback to the forefront.

(06:57):
We hope.
We hope.
Yeah.
We hope for sure.
I mean, it's funny because LIV took a lot ofthose personalities away from the game.
And well, I shouldn't say away from the game.
They moved, right, into their own entity wherethe PGA Tour was a little bit more, you know,
conservative in some of those ways.
So it'd be interesting to see how this all pansout because there's definitely a want by the

(07:20):
audience because of YouTube golf and so forththat there was something missing in the game.
And it kind of has exposed that, which you'reabsolutely right with the Internet Invitational
and seeing just how much viewership there isaround something like that.
Right.
Because they buy into the personalities thatare there.
And they crushed it, you know, like even now Italk about it, there's been two main things

(07:43):
that really migrated people towards the game ofgolf.
Right?
One was Tiger.
There are some things before that like ArnoldPalmer and stuff too, but Tiger brought a lot
of people into the game of golf and then COVID.
Yeah.
And now we see this big push in the growth ofthe game of golf.
Right?
And this is just a lot of different people justbringing a lot of people to the game of golf
from different backgrounds, but we all sharethis passion of loving golf.

(08:05):
But I think it's cool to show that, you know,there's a place for you in this sport.
There's a place for this personality in thissport.
You don't have to be the quiet gentleman type.
Right?
You can play music while you're on the golfcourse.
You can talk trash with your buddy while you'reon the golf course.
But and you can all we can all enjoy it.
I've always looked at golf as a mirror of life.
Right?
Because there's so many differentpersonalities, there's so many different ways

(08:27):
to do it.
You're literally trying to take a ball and putit into a hole in as many or in as few.
For a lot of people, it's many.
But for anybody playing, they're trying to getit in there as few as possible.
And it's just very much so you learn a lotabout people when you're out on the golf
course, and it should be that reflection,right?

(08:48):
So I think I hear that a lot in what you'resaying, and I resonate with that a lot because
that is something that I have wholeheartedlybelieved in, that brings out the authenticity
in people.
Because some of these guys that are in front ofthe camera, when it comes to professional golf
especially, they're different behind thescenes.
And it's like, let's bring out thatauthenticity.

(09:10):
And I think, again, it's kind of been exposedby the YouTube golf world, but I want to get
back to you and your story.
Because when did you realize that you were goodat the game of golf and maybe this was a way
out for you versus potentially going down otherpaths?
Yeah.
I always knew that I was—I always had afeeling, right, that I was good at golf and

(09:31):
going to play golf for a long time.
I think once I started winning, that was adifferent thing.
I started just winning junior golf tournaments,right?
And what it took for me to win, like, at everylevel, I never always tell people, I always
struggle at the initial stage.
I think what helped me get to where I am todayis that I just never quit.

(09:54):
And I always handle losses better than most.
So like when I first started losing and playingin tournaments, I was middle of the pack.
I was never the worst guy out there, but Iwasn't like that guy.
And I took the losses and took the lumps and Ifound out, okay, I need to get better here.
I got better, started winning.
High school golf, I didn't make the varsityteam my freshman year, played well in JV next

(10:19):
year, you know, made varsity, started offnumber one and started learning.
Like, I started winning.
Nothing crazy, but I was always respected.
Then I just kept getting better, man.
I just kept getting beat, going to the winning,then going to the next level, getting beat,
taking those losses, turning them into lessons,and going to the next level.

(10:41):
And I just figured, man, I started seeing guysthat were better than me at an early age and I
started passing them.
I started seeing them start falling out of lovewith the game, not really working as hard,
getting complacent, and I just started passingthem up or catching up to some as well.
Right?
And I just felt like if I just kept doing whatI'm doing, let's just see where this takes me.

(11:05):
And now, you know, I play a little basketball.
I didn't grow up to be six-six, so I decidednot to pursue that.
But early, I just always knew, man, that thatwould be my thing, my route, and my escape.
And we want to give a special shoutout andthanks to our sponsors over at Stark Health.
Folks, this is the team that's been behind myentire health and fitness transformation—over

(11:29):
30 pounds and 10% of body fat later.
It's been an incredible transformation, not tomention how much muscle that I've put on in
addition to all of that, but I couldn't havedone it without the team over at Stark Health
because it is a holistic approach with a teamof naturopathic doctors, nutritionists,

(11:50):
neuromuscular chiropractors, and personaltrainers.
They all have one goal in mind, to worktogether to get your health and fitness to the
next level.
So if you're serious about taking that nextstep in your health and fitness, reach out to
stark.health.
That's stark.health for more information.
Now let's get back to the show.

(12:12):
What part clicked for you first?
Was it the swing?
Was it the short game?
Was it putting?
Was it the mindset?
Like, what do you think it was that firstclicked?
It was more just the feel, just learning how toplay golf.
Like I said, the guys that I grew up playingwith, they didn't have the technical swings.
They didn't have the, you know, they had theold-school jerky moves here and there.

(12:35):
And I would watch and take different bits andpieces from those guys, but I never really knew
what my golf swing was.
I never really knew how to—I never focused oncertain, you know, aspects of my golf swing.
I just found a way, okay, the ball's going thatway, find a way to hit it this way.
I'm hitting the ball too hard, I'm chunking ittoo.
I just figured it out.

(12:55):
That was pretty much my story in golf.
Right?
Just figuring it out, right?
Just practicing.
My grandfather, just if I didn't hang out withthose guys on the golf course where I just hit
a shot here, there on the golf course, they'dleave me on the range and I'm just hitting
shots, just trying to figure out how to hit afade, hit a draw, just whatever.
So the feel aspect and just learning how tojust get around the golf course with what I

(13:17):
had.
And that's actually pretty much helped me a lottoo, out, you know, as a professional.
Like, if you watch me play now, well, morethree years ago or so.
I had to do like pro-ams and so I just had towarn them like, look, this isn't gonna be what
you expect.
Like, we don't strike it all day every day, butI will get around the golf course somewhere

(13:37):
under par.
Hopefully, no more than over par.
But, like, I'ma figure out how to get aroundthe course with what I got.
I was actually thinking about that today beforethis interview.
I'm like, man, you know, I wonder becausewhenever I stop playing for a little while, I
lose it, right?
Like, my game goes to hell in a handbasket.
The pull hook starts coming in quite a bit.

(13:58):
I mean, we played nine holes together and yousaw it.
I mean, that pull hook was there all nine holesjust about until the ninth hole.
And then all of a sudden, I striped one.
But my god, it is something to where when yousaid that, I'm just like, I was literally just
thinking about that.
Like, have you ever, like, shown up to the golfcourse and just been like, oh my god, I don't
know what's going on today?

(14:19):
That's it.
But you know, as golfers, we have to playtricks on our with our on like in our minds.
Yeah.
And I talk about this in the book too.
I psyched myself up to where if I hit the ballbad on the range, for some reason, that means
I'm I'm gonna hit it
You're gonna hit it good.
Yeah.
I've done it maybe I did it once in high schooland ever since then I tried to use that and
say, alright, well, I'm just gonna hit it goodon the golf course.

(14:41):
Yeah.
And then if I strike it, I try to just keepthat going but it's we just constantly play
tricks on ourselves.
Honestly, golfers are pretty mental.
We're pretty crazy.
We're pretty sick.
It's a sick game.
Yeah.
I mean, once you get addicted.
Yeah.
You really do.
You have to almost have this level of delusion.
Yeah.
And exactly.
Self-belief.
Like, those are the two areas that youabsolutely need in golf because if you just go

(15:06):
down a normal logistical path and all of asudden you start playing one hole bad
Right.
All of a sudden, if you are not delusional towhere you can flip that around and go, man, I'm
playing so great that just, you know, some badbreaks just happened and let's continue on
because I'm about to shoot 18 under par.
Like, it's just one of those things.
You want to err on that side because we're alsodelusional on the opposite side too.

(15:29):
Like, we can play all we can play 16 holes ofreally good golf and finish double bogey,
double bogey in the last two holes and we thewhole day is screwed.
Like we just played terrible, we hit the ballbad, I've shot this and that or and we just
stick on those two bad holes versus the other16.
So I mean, we're just delusional all the wayaround, but we'll rather you right.

(15:49):
It's best to be erring on delusional towardsoptimism.
When did you so let's get into the competitivegolf world because you've had a lot of
experience in competitive golf.
And one of my first questions for you that Ihave is when did you realize that you could
compete, not just play, at a higher level?
When I first started to go low, low isrelative, but I'll just say when I first

(16:15):
started shooting scores, say broke 70 in a golftournament.
That's when I realized that I had the mentalcapacity to do it because that's at that point,
it's really just mental.
You have to allow yourself to play great and becomfortable with going low, which at that time
too, I'm kinda I guess I'm aging myself, but,you know, it was harder to do at that age

(16:36):
because of junior golf the way it's set upversus now.
That I think what they do now, which is reallygreat.
I look at US Kids Golf scores and these kidsare shooting like 18 under par and, you know,
like crazy 62s and stuff, which is crazy.
But they have them teed off from places wherethey can actually reach the green with an iron.
Right?
They can get to par fives in two.

(16:57):
When I was young, they just put us on the redtees and we were seven, six years old or
whatever and couldn't get to the par fours intwo and all that.
So that made par that much harder and more of amythical thing to try to attain.
But when I finally started, you know, gettingthe reach of reason in two shots and get to par

(17:18):
fives in two shots, then from there, it was amental thing that I had to learn.
And that's when I really started reading too.
The Bob Rotella books like Golf's Not a Game ofPerfect.
Yeah, absolutely.
I dove into all of his books and they really,that's what I had to learn.
I had to really navigate it.
Once I conquered that and understood what youjust talked about, the self-belief, the

(17:43):
delusional part of it's kind of how what prosactually mean by staying in the moment and one
shot at a time.
And once I figured that out, I'm like, okay.
I can do that.
I'm comfortable with going under par.
So let's keep going.
I don't know if I ever really accomplished thefeeling of being super comfortable going under
par because a lot of what you just talked abouttoo.

(18:03):
I grew up to where when I was 13, I startedplaying golf, and I immediately just wanted to
go and have the most difficult challengepossible.
And I would just start playing the back tees,thinking that that was the best way of going
about it.
And so it wasn't until, like, gosh, in my early20s where I started really going under par.

(18:25):
And from there, I remember in the Butch HarmonVegas Tour, there was a tournament where we
were playing Paiute up in Vegas.
And it was the Wolf Course.
And sure enough, I had a couple birdies earlyon within the first five holes.
And then all of a sudden, I had a double eagle.
And I just sat there, and I looked at thescorecard, and I go, oh, shoot.

(18:51):
And that panic came in.
There were a few pull hooks on the way in.
And I think even as I was like five under parearly, I wanna say it was through five holes or
six holes.
I think I shot like 77.
Oh, I found
a way.
Yeah.
I found a way to really botch that one.

(19:11):
But I do wish if I was to go back and tell myyounger self, I would say, go as close as you
can and learn how to score under par and reallyutilize the front tees as much as possible.
So two things about that.
So one, from reading the books that I've toldyou about, it talks about how we just gravitate

(19:31):
to our comfort zone.
Yeah.
Right?
We always find that way whether we, like youdid, start off hot early on, then you kinda get
uncomfortable, then you just find a way to getback to that comfort zone of
Or if you start off really bad, right, andyou're just done for the day, you give up, then
you birdie in the last three holes, like, getsyou back into that comfort zone.
Like, we've all been there.

(19:53):
But the second thing so there's this guy, hewas my big now he wasn't a rival because he
just dominated junior golf in St.
Louis.
Okay.
Scott Langley.
Scott Langley won everything.
Ended up going to the University of Illinois,won the NCAA championship, was low am or low
yeah.
Low am at the U.S.
Open at Pebble Beach.

(20:14):
And then he just had the yips.
Like, he just couldn't like, he would shootscores where he was shooting like 82s, and it
was just ridiculous for, like, months at atime.
And eventually, he got it back together and goton tour and had a really solid career.
And I talked to him about, like, like, how didyou get through this part here?
Like, that that little stretch.

(20:35):
And he said, Doug, I went back and played fromthe red tees.
And just got used to scoring again, shootinglow numbers again.
Because after a while of struggling so long andshooting, like, high 70s, low 80s, and or
whatever, going back to under par and shootinglow numbers was uncomfortable for him.
So I I would recommend that for adults too,like, you don't it's you don't get points for a

(20:57):
player from the black tees or the the tips orwhatever.
Right?
Just go up there, play by yourself sometimes ifyou want and shoot, you know, play from the red
tees and just learn how to score and just getused to, you know, shooting numbers that are
lower.
I mean, that's potentially some of the bestadvice.
I mean, we've heard it for ages with golfcourses trying to get people to move up based
off your handicap and so forth.

(21:19):
But I even I mean, to today, I don't enjoyplaying the back tees anymore.
Like, I'm to the point now where I'm like, hey,I like, guys are like, are you okay playing up?
I'm like, absolutely.
Like, let's go as close
as we can.
There.
Yeah.
Let me let me go off of the senior tees.
This would be great.
That being said, what was your biggestbreakthrough or milestone early in the

(21:41):
competitive journey?
I'd say that was it though, man.
Like, just, you know, just figuring out themental aspect of playing golf professionally.
Getting through winning, maybe the U.S.
Amateur, that was a big one for me.
Okay.
Playing it I played in the 2010 U.S.
Amateur at Chambers Bay.
And actually in that qualifier, Scott Langleywas there.

(22:05):
Couple other guys, really good players, man.
But that was the first time where I just got tothat national stage.
That was a really big opportunity for me justto see and give me confidence that I could play
at a certain level.
And then I got to Chambers Bay and realized Ididn't know what the heck was going on with
that type of golf.
I was out there playing with these guys andlinks golf, like, obviously, had no idea what

(22:27):
the heck links golf was.
Like, coming in from St.
Louis, there's not a lot of courses that werethat firm and that fast, and I just, that was
tough there.
But just getting to that point was a bigbreakthrough.
Right?
Just to see to give us breakthrough to thenational stage.
And then soon after that, I started playinggood in college, won the conference MVP, played

(22:49):
well in the National Minority Championship,All-American honors, and just really got more
confidence from there.
Now a quick word from our sponsors, DevereuxGolf.
Folks, did you know by being a Pull Hook Golflistener that you get 20% off over at
devereuxgolf.com?
Just utilize the promo code PULLHOOKGOLF20 atcheckout for 20% off your entire order at

(23:11):
devereuxgolf.com.
They are changing the game when it comes togolf style.
Whether it's on the golf course, off the golfcourse, and everything in between, not only
that, they got some awesome hats, head covers,putter covers, and more.
Folks, get over to devereuxgolf.com because thebest part is it's affordable, and now it gets
even more affordable with the promo codePULLHOOKGOLF20 at checkout.

(23:34):
Yeah.
In your path now, you weren't a country clubkid.
Right?
No.
Far from it.
And I wasn't either.
Yeah.
So I came from a low to middle-class familythat really golf wasn't a thing.
And to be like, I've never been a member at agolf course.
So that's another thing.
And with that, it kind of builds a mindset.

(23:55):
At least for me, it did.
And I wonder, when you went into competitionsand so forth, was there ever like, what was
your mindset when all of a sudden you're like,okay, this kid like, I used to be like, oh,
that kid, he plays at this country club all thetime.
Yeah.
And did it ever affect you or did it help youin a positive way?
I would love to tell you that it helped me in apositive way.

(24:17):
But as a young kid, even in college, yeah, itdid.
It did affect me.
I thought I looked over and I saw that this kidwas used to this course.
Right?
This was his home course that we're playing at.
But, you know, my grandfather, I guess, he sawthat or kinda knew that would happen, and he
worked really hard.
He was a firefighter.

(24:38):
He always used to get in arguments with mygrandmother all the time because he would buy
me new golf clubs, and she just would notunderstand it.
Right?
And he was like, you know, I don't want mygrandbaby out there thinking he has less than.
I wanted to have the same clubs that they haveand all that.
So he always tried really hard to kinda takethat and give me the best opportunities that I

(24:58):
could have, but he could only do so much.
Right?
I turned it into, like, a chip on my shoulder.
Yeah.
Right?
That I I can play if if I can catch up to youguys, you guys are really messed up.
Like, I'm I'm coming, I'm coming to, I'm comingto play.
I'm coming to bring my best.
And I I just really put that more into the hardwork.
Yeah.
Put that more into the work and then I can justfigure it out with what I got.

(25:20):
I love that.
Now, when you started winning, did that changeyour mindset and mentality a bit?
Yeah.
Obviously, that that you get more confidence.
Right?
It's one of those things where before I had tofake the confidence.
Mhmm.
Before I could win.
I had to tell myself literally, I won my firsttournament on the Florida Pro Golf Tour back in
Orlando.

(25:40):
I won a couple of tournaments before they wereon handicap tours, and I didn't really give
myself a lot of credit for it.
Sure.
But the Florida Pro Golf Tour was really goodat that time where I mean, these guys from top
D1 schools coming out there in Orlando to playgolf.
And I I fought those doubts too.
Right?
Like, I came from an NAIA school, didn't reallyhave the best golf program, did the most that I

(26:01):
could do with my career.
And these guys are coming from Georgia, FloridaState, all these different schools, and I I
didn't know if I had what it takes to to beatthem.
I had to fake it, man.
I had to really write down.
I started getting into law of attraction typethings.
I started writing down affirmations.
I started telling myself this was actuallyreally big.
I wrote down, I don't care.

(26:23):
I'm winning 200 times a night in the in thefolder.
I have a picture of it.
I just kept writing it down, I don't care, I'mwinning.
And I came up with that mantra for exactly whatwe were just talking about.
Yeah.
This kid, he went to Georgia, he wasAll-American, I don't care, I'm winning.
This kid went to, he has the best clubs in hisbag and he went to a nice country club, I don't

(26:43):
care, I'm winning.
Like, he has a two-shot lead, I don't care, I'mwinning.
I just bogeyed the first, so I don't care.
And I wrote that down every night, every night.
And then I got I wish I could show you thepicture or find the picture.
But I got in this tournament.
We're at Black Bear, I think, or some courseout in Florida.
And even on the scorecard, I would just writeit down.

(27:04):
I was playing against Nick Lindheim who's beenon tour for a little while.
And he's the best player on the tour.
And I just wrote, I don't care.
I'm winning after a hole.
I don't care.
I'm winning.
I just kept writing it.
And that helped me kinda get over it.
Right?
And then once I finally won, I wasn't fakingit.
It gave me even more confidence to actually seeit come into fruition.
And from that, man, when you win a golftournament, it's amazing.

(27:27):
It's an amazing feeling.
Right?
You're tired because it drains you becauseyou're so focused.
There's so much that's going in your mind thatyou have to battle.
You win.
You're excited.
You're calling people.
They're calling you.
They're sending you messages on Instagram,they're liking your pictures and stuff, and
you're in bed that night tired.
You wanna go to sleep, but your mind is justracing from all the events that happened that

(27:52):
you're so excited.
And then you're thinking about where you can gonext after that and, you know, from that, it
just motivates you.
You get up, you barely sleep that night, youget up the next morning ready to work, and
you're just ready to keep it going.
I've been, yes, my success has always kept memore motivated.
Sure.
Was there any reality checks that kinda set inwhen you turned pro and all of a sudden you're

(28:14):
playing in pro events?
Like, was there anything that you were justlike coming out of college going, hey, I'm
gonna dominate.
I'm going to win golf tournaments.
I'm gonna make all this money.
And all of a sudden that reality check of progolf kinda set in.
Were there any of those moments for you?
There's a lot.
I mean, even my first tournament, I played onthe APGA Tour in Texas and I finished eighth.

(28:36):
I shot like 3 under par or something like that,2 or 4 under par or something like that.
I don't know.
But I cashed the check for I remember $333 andlike 57
Crushed it.
Right?
Getting the check.
But then I realized, wait, I just paid $200 fora hotel.
I paid $250 or $350 for

(28:58):
I had to fly out here.
I took a loss.
Why?
This is not a good business model here.
Right?
It's in this competitor.
There's a lot of good players out here, andeven more so, like, there are a lot of good
players, but now that it's so tough.
Like, there are so few spots that we're allfighting for.
Yeah.
Now it's only 100 guys on the PGA Tour keeptheir card, and it's just getting so tough.

(29:24):
But, you know, it's just a lot of good playersout there, man.
You just realize that we're all in it together.
We're all working hard every day.
We're all born with this certain skill set andtalent.
We're all the best in our little area, and wejust come together.
It's a dogfight.
It's one of those areas that I really feel likeif golf had what baseball has with multiple

(29:45):
minor league systems.
And granted, we kinda do with the mini tours,but there's no financial support with any of
those.
You're basically, we used to say that it waslegalized gambling just amongst guys because
when you start putting in all this money, onlythe guy who's winning is ultimately getting
paid out for the most part.
And I still feel like that's a lot of how it istoday as well.

(30:06):
But not having that financial support where,like, in baseball, you have these
organizations, you got these teams.
And I know LIV Golf is trying to go down thatpath a little bit, but it would be great to
see.
And we're kinda seeing it with the grass leagueright now, where guys are able to get some
contracts and stuff through teams.
But it'd be great to see there be systems andlevels to where, like, you can make a salary

(30:29):
and go out there and play.
And granted, we're not talking about bigsalaries.
I mean, some of these minor league baseballplayers, I know they make like $30,000 a year,
you know.
So it's not like we're talking about big-timemoney, but at least they know that there is a
paycheck coming in.
Yeah.
Versus like in golf, I've seen so many guysliving out of their car.
Yeah.
Like, doing that entire thing.

(30:51):
And it's brutal, like, and it breaks a lot ofpeople, especially at the lower levels of golf
that people don't normally see.
It's a lot of long hours by yourself.
Yeah.
On the road.
I mean, and now, you know, the cool thing istoo that I'm not sure how much, and it's
probably the same now, but a lot of us havetraveled together with friends and buddies that
had our little local support system.

(31:12):
Overall, going through the same struggletogether.
Like, it's still a lonely, it's a struggle.
Yeah.
But you know, going to those tournaments, Iwish there was something like that within the
mini tour system.
With mini tour golf, we're partially theproblem.
I'm just gonna say that because like we talkedabout before, we're delusional.
Yeah.
And you see, we see these tournaments andthere's first place guaranteed $100,000 or

(31:35):
$50,000, and then it drops down to second,third place getting like $5,000.
Yeah.
And we all rush to sign up for that thinkingthat we're gonna be that one guy.
And, you know, those fields fill up, but, Imean, shoot, only 10 people are gonna make a
profit on those tournaments.
One guy's gonna crush it, but I think the prodthat just needs to stop.
Like, do the whoever's gonna win thatguaranteed $50,000 will be happy winning

(31:59):
$25,000, $20,000, and then breaking it down somore money just not make it killing, but, you
know, make enough money to keep going the nextweek.
Because you're playing in tournaments and yougotta putt on 18 for you know, you think you
got a six-footer, but you're not thinking thissix-footer is for birdie.
This six-footer is to pay bills.
This six-footer is to keep going next week.

(32:20):
Right?
That's the grind.
It's so tough, man.
And it's just stressful, but I wish there wassomething to kinda make it easier for the guys
on the mini tours.
You were just talking about it around thefinancial pressure.
Talk to me about the mindset.
Right?
Because you started alluding to it as you weretalking about it.
You're like, man, that six-footer.

(32:42):
Right.
Like, you ever have one of those moments wherethere is a big putt that you have to make in
order just to be able to move on to the nextweek in terms of finances or anything like
that?
Yeah.
So I tell this story.
Alright.
So I told the story of my first win on theFlorida Pro Golf Tour.
That came after my first win on the APGA Tourin Florida, in Tampa, Florida.

(33:05):
I had $0 in my account, basically.
I think the entries were like $350 back then,and the way the tournaments worked—and same on
the Florida Pro Golf Tour—but the tournamentswere on Saturday, Sunday.
You can write a check and hand it to them onSaturday, and then they actually have money in
the bank or something, so they wrote us checksback on Sunday after a round.

(33:28):
So I didn't have any money.
I was going through this.
I was struggling with my game, but I wasworking.
I was putting in the work.
And I called my mom and said, look, I'm gonnaplay in this tournament.
And if it doesn't work out, I'm gonna need somemoney to come back home.
I'll go in.
I write this check on Saturday.
And if I shot 74, 74, that check was gonnabounce so hard.

(33:50):
That check was gonna bounce like a Spaldingball or a Top-Flite on concrete.
And eventually, you know, and that pressure Idon't remember exactly how much I just really
trust I had a calm like, a weird sense ofcalmness that I just put in the work and
whatever was gonna happen was gonna happen.
But, you know, I ended up playing well, shot64, 64, 66 and won that tournament.

(34:13):
And, you know, I live by I kinda like to thinkthe the delusional part.
Right?
Yeah.
Greatness is on the brink of destruction.
Mhmm.
I everything's crumbling around me.
I I put in the work, but it all can come to endhere.
And I just felt like this was opportunity andmoment that I was just gonna it was all gonna
come together.
So that that that's a extreme example.

(34:34):
I've probably done that, like, two or threetimes back in the day.
But, again, that just goes to show to theexample of the pressure we feel not knowing.
Like, if I didn't play well that week, I don'tknow I mean, I don't know who knows where where
I'll be the next week on the rest of my life.
Right?
And it it sounds extreme, but it's the truth.
So it's the same for these guys now inQ-School.

(34:54):
I was a caddying for a buddy of mine inQ-School, and I just looked around.
I was like, gosh.
I'd I have no desire to be right there rightnow.
Like, that pressure that they feel is just isinsane.
The same goes for the guys playing on the PGATour right now.
They're trying to secure their card.
If they don't play well, who knows wherethey're gonna be, like, what's gonna be next
for them.
So there's so much uncertainty in theprofessional golf world where it's like, gosh,

(35:20):
I honestly would like to be doing this nextweek, but I don't know if I'm going to be.
It depends on if I make this birdie putt on thelast hole or something like that.
So it's tough.
You just gotta roll with the punches, man.
Stay positive.
You really do.
I remember having 7 cents in my bank account.
And luckily, I had $2 in just $2 bills in mycenter console in my car.

(35:44):
Yeah.
And I'm like, shit.
What am I gonna do?
Like, I can't, like I didn't even tell myparents.
Right.
That I didn't graduate college right awaybecause I went to go play professional golf.
So they're thinking that I'm still, so, like, Ididn't have any, like, financial support at
that point.
Yeah.
And I'm like, well, I got $2, and if I make thecut, I'll be able to at least have some type of

(36:11):
check.
And sure enough, I ended up making the cut thatweek.
Yeah.
But right before that tournament, my final mealbefore I got the check was a double
cheeseburger at McDonald's.
That was only a dollar back then.
Right.
Those days are Yeah.
Those days are gone.
Those days are gone.
But it's good.
You know, and I talked to the story with so mymy roommate for a few years is Lanto Griffin

(36:34):
who plays on the PGA Tour.
And Lanto was bouncing back and forth betweenKorn Ferry and he missed like his first once he
got on Korn Ferry the second time or thirdtime, he missed, like, his first six cuts, and
he was just struggling.
And he gets on, he's in Nashville, and he has apar putt on the 36th hole to make the cut on

(36:57):
the number.
Right?
He makes the putt, and he's like, man, if Imissed that putt, that's seven straight weeks
of golf.
My confidence is shot even more.
I don't know if I wanna get back.
I'm definitely not gonna get back in thereshuffle or whatever and who knows where I
will be.
He made that punch at 61, won that tour event,ended up getting confidence, got on the PGA

(37:21):
Tour, and then won in Houston that next year.
So it's like, it's we just every shot like it'sit's sometimes it's luck.
Right?
You'd make another right shot at the rightmoment, but you just never know what one shot
could mean to you.
Like, it could change everything.
And you can't think about that over each puttor you would drive yourself insane, but that's

(37:42):
the reality.
Like, we know that that's the possibility.
For sure.
Now you've won over 20 professional events.
Was there one that stands out to you?
It's a couple.
It's a couple that really stands out.
Like, the two that we talked about winning onthe my first wins on Florida Pro Golf Tour and
APGA Tour.
And then one, you know, I talked about mygrandfather who's a really big influence in my

(38:06):
life.
Yeah.
I won this tournament in Kentucky on the—it'scalled the Gimme Golf Tour or the Gimme Golf
Open.
And it was a really good event, man, out inKentucky, and I won that event not really
having my best stuff.
I was injured a little bit.
My grandfather passed a couple months beforethat.

(38:27):
Oh, wow.
Must have been an emotional one.
Exactly.
So I really remember that more so because Iremember the ride back from Kentucky to St.
Louis.
And it was the first time where I couldn't callmy grandfather to say that I won.
And I hear his reaction.
Like, I could hear his reaction.
I can—I know how he's gonna react to it becausehe's done it 20-something times before or

(38:49):
hundreds of times before with junior golf aswell.
And I always took it for granted whenever I wasa kid or coming up, like, alright.
It's just a win.
I'll be alright or whatever.
He's just so excited.
I'm like, calm down.
Calm down.
And then just to win that tournament and not beable to call him, that feeling really—that
really hit me and made that tournament a littlemore memorable.

(39:11):
For
the other ones.
So
It's a great lesson for everybody too that,like, don't take things for granted.
Yeah.
Because all of a sudden, one day you'recomplaining, you're like, oh gosh, I gotta talk
to my mom.
And then all of a sudden it's
like and
then they're gone.
And it's like, hey, you need to make sure thatyou're cherishing those moments.
It's important.
Yeah.
And it's easier said than done, and I get it,but trust us, that is great advice there.

(39:35):
Because I've heard it myself with mygrandfather, right?
Because we will butt heads every now and thenon the golf course.
Just father-son type stuff, but, you know, it'sjust easier said than done.
You hear it all the time, but you just don'tthink that that's gonna happen to you, and when
it happens, you kind of have that little regretand just like, dang, this is what they're
talking about.
Yeah.
But it is cool that you could hear his voice,you could hear his reactions and everything.

(39:57):
To this day, like, to this day, I still hearhis voice, right?
His impact has been such—he's had such animpact on my life.
A lot of my mannerisms come from him.
A lot of people say that I look and act andtalk just like him.
To this day, I don't have conversations withhim, but I hear him.
Right?
Like I hear what his responses would be.

(40:18):
And those early days caddie conversations,there must have been some one-liners out there,
that's for sure.
Yeah.
I don't know if anything's—yeah, don't know ifanything's appropriate for us.
Right now.
That's what I try to tell people.
I'm like, man, if you heard the conversationsthat happen on a golf course, yeah, a lot of
things just can't be repeated.

(40:39):
Like, we were unfiltered for a long time onthis podcast, and it's like, man, if we even
touched upon—right.
Some of the stuff that gets said on a golfcourse, it's like, we would be canceled in a
heartbeat.
Absolutely.
That's funny.
That's funny.
But let's get into—we do the pull hook momenton this show.
And this is the pull hook; it was my big miss.

(40:59):
I mean, you actually saw it when we played nineholes together.
A lot.
And with that, it was something that was around ruiner, but I always had to make sure to
bounce back.
And it's actually one of the reasons that ledme to this spot here today talking with you,
and just that journey, and having that momentin golf.

(41:20):
Because otherwise, maybe I'd be playing outthere still.
Who knows?
Right.
Right.
But it did not work out in that way, and thatis completely fine because obviously, I'm here
now.
And one of the things about that is it is thatpivotal moment in life where something stems
from that.
And I feel like, you know, a lot of people havea lot of different moments throughout life or

(41:43):
within the golf course.
Like we were talking with Marty Sanchez, hiswas the pull hook at the U.S.
Amateur and ended up losing because of that.
And then, you know, Terrence Daniels was rightnow, he's going through and experiencing that
pull hook moment where his life is on adifferent trajectory.
He's on the rise and everything's going so goodfor him.

(42:03):
So I wanna ask you, what is your pull hookmoment?
Okay.
So we'll share a little bond here on this.
I saw your pull hook.
For me, my pull hook, literally my pull hookhappened in front of 3 million people.
Oh, wow.
So now we saw that Good Good's bringing backthe Big Break.

(42:24):
Yeah.
I was on Big Break season 22.
Yep.
Episode seven, I was in the eliminationchallenge.
And, you know, leading up to this too, let'sbring it a little bit before that.
I used to always hit a fade in college.
I used to hit a slice.
I couldn't draw the ball.
I used to hate that.
And when I turned professional, I wanted towork the ball both ways more.

(42:45):
So I really worked on getting rid of that leftor that fade-bias swing.
Sure.
So I'm in the mirror just all for hours justkinda laying it off, getting this bow in my
wrist bowed and grinding it out.
I started seeing the little draw, and I couldhit both shots, and I just kept doing this, and
I just started overdoing it.
Oh, no.

(43:05):
So now it's pretty much documented that I am adrawer.
I draw the ball now at 9.
I can't like it's it takes a pretty big sliceswing for me to hit the ball just straight.
Yeah.
I'm trying to remember.
You followed me on a couple.
Yeah.
So
so I get out there, and I'm struggling withthis hook on Big Break, and just the last hole

(43:27):
at Pawleys Plantation, there's a dogleg left,which you think will fit perfect for my little
draw.
But in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, it's a drawhole.
Let's draw the ball.
I don't need to think draw.
I just need to think, hit a straight shot, andit's just going to draw.
So I'm a little nervous.
Get handsy trying to draw it.
Yep.
And pull hook is the ugliest shot on Big Break.

(43:51):
It was like they had the camera right behindme, so you just saw it just Oh, no.
Didn't need shot tracer or anything.
You just saw the ball just going low and leftinto the hazard, and that was the end of my run
on the "Big Break." I couldn't believe ithappened because I was really struggling with
my swing during the show.
But after that, man, like, would you know, "BigBreak" was like the biggest one, the biggest

(44:14):
golf show well, the biggest golf show at thetime.
So I built a pretty good following.
People would come to the tournaments, watch me,and I would get so nervous over shots when
people watched me.
But I did have my three-wood.
And I was like, man, as soon as I pull thethree-wood out on the hole, say it like, of
course in Florida.

(44:36):
And people were kinda behind me and I'm justthinking, oh, no.
They're thinking right now.
Oh, that's the club where he's gonna pull hookit.
That's every pull hook's in.
And it would just bite me from now.
Like, I was so conscious about what peoplethought about me hooking the ball.
You know, that experience though, and "BigBreak" was such a fun pressure pack.
We talk about pressure on each and every shot.
Yeah.
It doesn't get anything like that.

(44:57):
That is the most pressure you will ever feel inyour life.
I'm excited to see how it comes back.
Just excited to see how people handle that.
But I will say this from my pull hook momentthat what I learned from it to hopefully help
other people that do this show and also otherexperiences too.
But I realized the people that do well on BigBreak or did well on Big Break, you know, they

(45:22):
always had the guy that was the asshole.
Mhmm.
And that guy or girl would always make it atleast to the final four.
Like, they always did really well on the show.
And I realized, like, I didn't really show mypersonality on the show.
I didn't really, you know, let people see likewe talked about.
Like, we had a golfers have a hard time showingyour personality.

(45:42):
Because I was worried about being painted inthe negative light.
And
the guys that are that don't worry about thatand they're just themselves, whether they are,
you know, buttholes or not, alright.
Say it asshole.
Assholes are not like, they don't care whatpeople think about them as much.
They're just themselves and they're just outthere trying to play golf.
Right?

(46:02):
Where and whatever anybody else thinks aboutthem, they don't worry about it.
And that's what I learned from that situation.
Like, I was too caught up in, oh, no.
Am I gonna like, what are they gonna think if Ihook this ball?
Oh, no.
I'm gonna hook this ball and embarrass myself.
Like, I need to act this way so they so peoplewon't say this about me.
Instead of just being who I am and just, likejust going through my journey.

(46:25):
And if they people witness and some people aregonna like it, some people are not gonna like
it.
But I just I I learned that.
And I'm not a bad guy, so I know that I don'thave bad intentions towards anybody.
So just be myself and just, you know, take it.
And if somebody doesn't like you or somebodysays something negative, whatever.
Right?
So that was my pull hook moment and what I tookfrom that.

(46:46):
That is awesome because people need tounderstand that it doesn't matter what other
people think about you.
Like, it was one of the challenging things thatI thought I was ready for in starting a podcast
three and a half years ago, or over three and ahalf years ago now with Pull Hook.

(47:06):
And as we started the show, to see some of thenegativity and some of the comments around some
of the episodes, like we did an episode earlyon where Mikey Perez, rest in peace, he was he
was a Big Break guy.
And Pat Perez's brother.
And we had the Fat Perez come on.
Right?
And that episode, he was kinda jumping a littlebit.

(47:29):
Like he was excited to have the interview withthe Fat Perez and whatnot.
Well, we got scrutinized because FP was he wason the rise.
He was now part of Bob Does Sports andeverything.
And everybody on YouTube was very big fans ofhim.
And a lot of those comments, like, from thatepisode were like super negative.
I'm like, and some of them were like, oh, man.

(47:51):
They're like, it kinda hits you, but you thinkyou're ready for it.
And then it's a little bit of experience.
Like, you kinda have to go through it in orderto realize, oh, yeah.
I give two shits now.
Right.
What somebody actually thinks about me.
It has no effect on me whatsoever.
I'm gonna be me whether or not you like it ornot.
Yeah.
So
that is kinda just great advice for anybody outthere, golfer or non-golfer, be yourself and

(48:18):
don't worry about what other people are goingto think about you because you can't control
that.
No.
You can't control it.
And you know that I think that's the thing thatcomes with age as well.
Like, the older I've got, I've become like mygrandfather who just as they got, you know,
grandmother too, as they got older, they justdon't care what anybody they say whatever, like
you can't say that
Oh my god.
That is so true.

(48:39):
Like old people do not care
older people, they do
not care where they live their life, they'vebeen through their trials, can't nobody tell
them Wow.
I never put that in perspective.
You're so right too because it's always thegrandparents that just say what's on their
mind.
Right.
Do not care what anybody else thinks.
And as I remember being a kid with mygrandmother and all of a sudden she would say

(49:00):
something like at a restaurant and aboutsomebody and they could clearly hear her.
Right.
And I'm just like, oh my god, you did not justsay that.
So, I mean, I've never put two and two togetherthere, but you're right because they've been
through the experience and they really don'tcare.
Like, they're gonna talk their mind.
Yeah.
It is well, you know, they say, you know, oncean adult, twice a baby, like, on the opposite

(49:20):
end of the spectrum, kids, they don't careeither.
Yeah.
But just don't know.
They're not afraid.
They're not worried about what anybody elsethinks.
Then we get to some point where now now becausewe're exposed to social media and you have so
many people that have access to you.
Good just gets they just and and access to youfrom a safe place.
Like, if they say

(49:41):
stuff that they're keyboard.
Behind a blank picture or a picture of a dogand stuff, so they'll say whatever.
And so it's hard, man.
I I feel really feel for like the kids comingup now and they have to deal with it.
Even now, you know, the Internet Invitationalguys, they took a lot of heat and they're just
trying to get people to And calm I was like,man, you know what?

(50:02):
I kinda feel I I definitely feel for thembecause the big break was like I said, we had 3
million people watching every week.
That was the biggest show and then Twitter wasstarting to come around.
So one of our guys, Anthony, he was like ourvillain on the show.
And I talked to him like after the show airedand he was really struggling.
He was like, dude, they're killing me onTwitter right now.

(50:22):
Well, Twitter back then.
Yeah.
Thanks now.
And he was just like, he couldn't he had areally tough time handling that.
So now it's even worse because they justeverybody's got it right.
Yeah.
So but just don't worry about them guys, like,their their opinions, just be yourself.
That is that's the best advice right there.
But let's take a moment now, right, to where wegotta talk about the book.

(50:44):
Tour line and playing through pressure.
Christian, you've lived a hell of a journey.
Because in this book, a lot of this you couldtell that it is it's real.
Like a lie, it's fiction, but you can tell thatthere's parts in there that are very much so
you and the people that were around you and soforth.
But now that you've taken all of that and putit into a story, why don't you finish by

talking about your book, "Tour Line (51:08):
Play Through the Pressure." What made you decide
that fiction was the best way to go with it?
Was that to protect some names potentially?
Like, tell us a little bit about how you cameup with this.
There's a disclaimer in there like, you know,just all the names are fiction.
Just here to tell a story, not catch a case.
It's, you know, I tell people it's about 75 to80% my life.

(51:33):
Right?
And then it's parts of other people's livesthat I've been around playing on the APGA Tour,
just different mini tours as well to thingsthat we've gone through.
And it's more so the truth aspect of it is thetrials that we face.
The things that everybody faces.

(51:53):
Right?
The setbacks, the obstacles you have toovercome, the doubts that you feel.
Zeke, the main character here, has faced a lotof trials and tribulations that I face, I'm
sure you face, I'm sure a lot of the readerswill face and be able to relate to.
But it's coming from a different perspective, adifferent background.
And I think that's time for something like thatin golf.

(52:16):
We've talked about how there's so many morepeople getting into the game now, especially
because of COVID, and that brings differentstories.
And it's time for a different story in golf tobe kind of shared in a different way.
Like, I love golf movies.
I watch all of them, you know, but the samestory is kind of getting towards the old golf

(52:36):
pro that falls out of love with the game ofgolf, recounts in and gets talked into playing
in this championship or something, or he helpshis kid play kind of a way to redeem his past
in golf.
And those are all fun and loving, but it's timefor different stories.
And I think this story is gonna relate—a lot ofpeople are gonna relate to it.
And realize that even though we're alldifferent, our passion for the game, for golf,

(53:01):
the escape golf gives us, the opportunitiesthat golf gives us, the experiences that we
have within golf that we all share.
There's never been a story told like this inthe game of golf even from, you know, the blend
of golf and culture.
The chapters in the story, they're all myfavorite rap songs, but they fit the chapter

(53:21):
titles perfectly.
The language used in here is definitely alittle more raw and authentic, but I wanted
that to be there because, like I said, we'recoming to the game the way that we are, not the
way that the game wants us.
And that's a lot of people are just coming intothe game, and I want you all to come to the
game the way that you are.

(53:41):
And this book lets you know that that's okay.
That's a great quote.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Alright.
I I
remember what I said.
Might have to trademark that one because thatis awesome.
Come to the game as you are.
Don't let the game change you.
That is phenomenal stuff.
And I mean, the theme of pressure kind of runsthroughout the book.
Is this something that you have felt directly?

(54:04):
I mean, you talked about it quite a bit.
I mean, some of the challenges and tribulationsthat come with playing on the mini tour
circuits and where is money going to come from.
So I feel like a lot of the pressure that wehear about in the book is a lot of stuff that
you dealt with.
Yeah.
For sure.
And you know, Zeke in the book, he's in asituation where he has to play golf to save his

(54:29):
friend's life.
Save his friend's life, and he's also in asituation where he ends up in a bad situation
because he's trying to find a better way to sayit.
So Zeke is in.
Alright.
I'm just giving a little disclaimer about it orpart of the book here.
Zeke ends up having to get in bed with thelocal drug dealer.

(54:50):
Not literally, whatever, but he's dealing drugson the road on the mini tours.
This is the best way that he can, with thehands that he was dealt, keep his dreams alive
and his friend alive.
And if he doesn't perform, right, like wetalked about earlier.

(55:11):
Yeah.
Who knows what's gonna happen next.
So it sounds extreme.
Right?
Where if he doesn't play well, if he doesn'tperform while he's trying to make money for
this drug deal on the tour and do all this hereand support his dream.
He doesn't really know, like, what's gonnahappen next, but that's exactly what we feel on
the mini tours.

(55:33):
It's a good story, like, where you talk abouttoo where the money getting the money for this
stuff.
Yeah.
Zeke is in here, and I've had this conversationdozens of hundreds of times where it's like,
hey, do you got a sponsor?
No.
No.
Where do I get where do you get those from?
And he's like, oh, well, you know, my guys atmy dad's country club got together and gave me

(55:54):
$50,000 or it cost about $100,000 to sponsor agolfer.
And Zeke, much like myself, is like, dude, Ican't even fix my mouth to ask anybody for that
type of money.
I could barely ask for $20, but let alone$50,000 or $100,000.
And he's just looking around where he's justlike, man, I don't know where to get that type

(56:17):
of money from.
I was not put in that situation.
And, you know, Zeke, he looks around and heends up finding that to be in the local drug
dealer and working out a way to provide for hisdream or get money for his dream, but it comes
with a certain cost.
And that's a lot of things that we all have toweigh sometimes, you know, the cost, the risk

(56:38):
rewards of chasing our dreams.
And it's interesting.
It's definitely a story that puts pressure in aunique way.
But it's fantastic.
I'm just telling you.
Who did you make this book for?
Like, who's the ideal person that you wouldlove to read this book?
Yeah.
I think it's definitely for the newer golfers,not newer golfers, but just people that are

(57:03):
just getting into the game, been in the gamefor a while, just love the game of golf.
I just wanna see a different story.
Yeah.
See something that could relate to them, thatrelate to their challenges that they've been
to.
This isn't a story.
Some laughs in there, but it isn't a, like, afunny story.
It's not a Happy Gilmore two.
It's a deep story.
It's an emotional story where you can learnfrom, you know, the doubts in his mind.

(57:28):
You can learn how he handles differentsituations, the pressure situations, and every
page just drips with emotion.
You'll cry.
I've had some of my beta readers, they've criedin different scenes.
Right?
They've obviously had their laughs, but they'velearned things in the game of golf.
Like, I think I've really brought up issues inthe game of golf that I just wanted to bring to

(57:51):
the forefront and just make you wonder about,like, why things are the way that they are.
But also make you say, okay, I can see myselfin Zeke.
And I think everybody can.
So I think everybody that enjoys the game ofgolf and even outside of golf, you know, if
you're just—I think it's such a good read andstory outside of the game of golf that people
that just enjoy stories and journeys of peoplefacing battles and dealing with pressure and

(58:16):
overcoming obstacles.
I think that's a story that's gonna relate tomost in their life.
I was about to say, it seems like it goesbeyond golf.
Yeah.
It's definitely beyond golf.
There's definitely a lot of golf stuff inthere, and I included different things like we
talked about earlier with me reading the BobRotella books.
And a lot of things that I've used mentally onthe golf course, I've included that.

(58:39):
You can learn some of those tips.
I like to see certain parts of that as like asports psychology book in certain chapters,
things that you can learn.
But for the most part, outside of that, it'sjust a really, really good story about a kid
put in tough situations, but he figures it out.

(59:00):
Maybe.
Maybe.
Maybe.
There's the teaser right there, folks.
So make sure to go and get this tour line book.
I mean, I will say this.
In talking with you and having theseconversations, I've already picked up about
three things mentally that I'm like, oh, wow.
You know, those are key attributes that youshould really have for playing the game of golf

(59:26):
and things that, you know, I'm gonna take awayfrom this conversation.
So if that's some of the stuff that's in thisbook.
It's in there.
Along with that incredible storyline, by theway, where I mean, folks, is Zeke gonna save
his friend?
We don't know.
He's gonna have to play through that pressure,and we're gonna see one way or another.
And who knows what's going to end up happeninguntil you read the book because then you will

(59:51):
know what has happened.
But we want to thank Christian for his timehere today on the Pull Hook Golf Podcast.
And Christian, where can people go?
When is the book?
Is it out yet?
When are they gonna be able to get it?
And where can they go to get it?
So it's officially available December 5, 2017,on Amazon.
It'd be on Amazon and Barnes & Noble, but, youknow, go on Amazon, I prefer.

(01:00:14):
And you can keep, you know, keep up with me ondifferent updates on Instagram, I m c heavens.
And just go get it.
I appreciate the support.
I've got a lot of support from the pre-ordersalready.
Golf Channel has given me a lot of support too.
So I really think it's a story that's gonnaspread and start a movement in the game of
golf.
I hope so, and I hope to see the movie.
Yeah.
That's what I'm waiting for.

(01:00:34):
It's gonna happen.
We gotta get that movie out.
But thanks again, man.
Really appreciate you being on the Pull HookGolf podcast.
No, I appreciate you having me on the platformand us bonding over Pull Hook experiences.
You've done a great job, so I appreciate it.
I appreciate it.
Thank you.
Nice.