The Golf Business w/ Ted Simons

Matt Cook sits down with Ted Simons for an insightful discussion on his diverse career in golf and sports initiatives worldwide. Ted shares his experiences with Nicklaus Academies and the challenges faced in international markets. They delve into his recent projects, including golf course development in India, and discuss LIV Golf's impact on customer experience and the industry. The conversation shifts to the future of the golf industry, including debates on rolling back golf ball performance and sustainability. Ted highlights global expansion trends and the role of technology in sports. The episode wraps with a rapid-fire Q&A and Ted's dream foursome, concluding with his work at Synergy Group Consulting.

Episode Transcript

(00:11):
Welcome back, everybody, to Pull Hook Golf, thepodcast.
I'm your host, Matt Cook.
And today, we have a fascinating episode foryou.
Joining us is a visionary in the sports worlddevelopment, product innovation, and golf
disruption.
Ted Simons is here.
And, man, Ted's resume is extensive, folks.

(00:32):
He began his journey in retail sporting goodsfor Razzignol in ski and tennis and then
evolved into a leader in video and filmproduction.
Then founded Synergy Group Marketing, wherehe's led iconic sports projects for clients
like Wilson Sporting Goods, U.S.
Ski Team, Yonex Golf, if you remember Yonex,everybody, ProForm Fitness, and Nicklaus

(00:56):
Academies.
But I do want to give a brief overview of whatyou're going to be listening to today with Ted.
We're going to dive deep into Ted's background.
We're going to get his experience withinternational sports initiatives.
And then, of course, we've got to talk a littlebit about LIV Golf and the PGA Tour, the
rivalry there, and where he thinks the golfindustry is headed.

(01:19):
Welcome to the show, Ted.
Thank you very much.
Appreciate you having me, Matt.
Worth a call.
It's my pleasure.
We had a great conversation.
You actually were reaching out to me around acouple people that you work with that you want
to have on the show.
And the more that we got talking, I'm like, youknow what?
I absolutely have to have you on an episodebecause you have so much insight.
And what's awesome is you've worked a lotinternationally, which I don't think I talk to

(01:44):
enough people in the golf industry that havethat experience, and that's where it's going to
lead us into the LIV Golf side of things.
But first off, I want to get into yourbackground, your approach.
Now you've had such a varied career.
From sports products to film production and nowgolf development, can you walk us through how
your career evolved and what led to whereyou're at today?

(02:08):
I wish I had a road map to be able to show youand share all this with you.
But, yeah, I just, you know, moved and shapedand went where my career took me, where my
relationships took me.
So, yeah, I started in retail sporting goods.
I was a baseball player, but, you know, once Igot there, my goal, my vision was to become a

(02:33):
ski rep.
That's all I wanted to do.
These guys and gals, they—I mean, they were myidols.
They were the pinnacle of—I mean, if I got tothat, I was done.
And, sure enough, I was able to get there.
And oddly enough, at the ripe age of 34, Idecided I didn't wanna be an old rep, maybe,

(02:55):
you know, standing on the plaza Snowbirdfreezing my butt off.
Yeah, it taught me that maybe there's adifferent path here.
And so, yeah, I left the repping, got into thevideo production world, focused on sports and
resorts, and, yep, figured out that, you know,I was unemployable, if you will.

(03:18):
I don't really fit into corporate structure.
So, I was given the opportunity to start my owncompany, and that's when I founded Synergy
Group Marketing.
And from there, I just, you know, continue toevolve.
Yeah.
I started writing video scripts because Icouldn't find producers that understood what I

(03:40):
wanted from a product information piece forYonex Golf or Yonex Tennis, Wilson Sporting
Goods, those types of things.
So, I started to write scripts, started toproduce, started to shoot my own video, because
I knew what I wanted to see.

(04:00):
And that was just a great company that I built,and everything just kind of evolved.
I got more into fitness.
Yeah.
Fitness manufacturers led me to NASM, which ledme down other paths, other technologies, and

(04:23):
eventually, I got introduced to the group thatwas running Nicklaus Academies.
And after a period of consulting with them,they brought me on board as executive VP and
COO.
And I had the opportunity, the privilege ofrepresenting Mr.
Nicklaus around the world for 18 years.

(04:45):
Wow.
That's incredible.
Now, obviously, you love working with productsas well as on projects around these.
Can you share some examples for the audience ofhow getting into the details made a difference
in a project's success?
Yeah.
I'm weird because I don't understandmanufacturing.

(05:07):
I'm certainly not an engineer.
But little things like going to the factoriesand seeing how they lay up Rossignol skis,
which has changed now.
But, you know, seeing how they lay things soyou understood, you know, all the components
that went into making a product perform.

(05:28):
One of my more interesting ones is we went andfilmed how you make Wilson tennis balls, which
was—I think I can still smell the factory, theresins.
I may still have some of the felt, you know,somewhere in my DNA.
But, you know, getting into and watching thepeople doing the work and, you know, their

(05:54):
care, their precision to come out, you know, toat the end of the production, you know, sees
it.
You know, they wanted that Wilson tennis ballto be the best ball on the market.
From there now, it's easy to produce a videoabout it because you can share the passion.
You can share their attention to detail, theircommitment to the brand.

(06:19):
And when I got those opportunities to see howthings get made, how the engineers design
things, it made it really, really easy toproduce their marketing pieces, their product
information pieces that, yeah, I becamepassionate about.

(06:40):
I love my clients.
I love their projects.
So
I gotta go back to Mr.
Nicklaus's brand because, obviously, we're on agolf podcast.
I wanna find out working with the Golden Bearand so forth.
But before we do, now within working with Mr.
Nicklaus, you worked a lot internationally.

(07:02):
Right?
So you worked in Brazil, I believe, India, andChina.
What was it like working in those markets, andhow did you kinda ensure that those projects
succeeded within that international brand?
Well, I mean, it goes back to, you know,almost, you know, the manufacturing.
I visited, I think I counted 54 countries toestablish 28 locations.

(07:28):
So, yeah, I woke up and, you know, I'm on thecoast of Croatia going, where the hell am I?
I'm on the Mediterranean somewhere.
Yeah.
So being able to travel internationally, and Itraveled alone.
You know, me and my carry-on bag and mybackpack with a laptop and a cell phone and,

(07:50):
you know, just hope that I got picked up by theperson that I was trying to communicate with.
Yeah.
But, you know, having the golden bear, youknow, as on your business card, I mean, you
know, talk about opening doors.
Yeah.
That was the first step, but, you know, reallygetting to know the people, getting to know the

(08:11):
projects, the lay of the land, walking the, youknow, walking the earth, if you will, to make
sure that who you're dealing with, the projectsyou're looking at, what the market potential
is, added to Mr.
Nicklaus's bucket, right, and did not take awayfrom his brand.

(08:33):
And so, yep, that's a, you know, I yeah.
It's a tremendous responsibility that, youknow, I took obviously very seriously, and I
passed that on to, you know, my eventualclients that, you know, I negotiated 20-year
agreements with.

(08:53):
You're I mean, you're talking about a long-termmarriage here.
So you've got to make sure that you've got theright people that are funding the project, that
are going to be behind the project for the longhaul, and then working with them to design, to
develop, to create that experience and hiringpeople that didn't work for me, that didn't

(09:19):
work for the client.
Every day they put that shirt on, that hat on,they represented Mr.
Nicklaus.
And yeah.
I was working with Jack, by the way.
I don't mean to interrupt you, but you'reenticing me here with talking about all of
this.
I'm like, how was the Golden Bear?
Well, you know, Golden Bear is like every oneof us.

(09:41):
You know?
We all have good days, and we have bad days.
And, you know, I was told by Jack early on thatyou don't want a phone call from me.
That means I've maybe made a mistake somewhere.
So as long as, yeah, he put the trust in ourorganization to represent his brand and, yep, I

(10:07):
would report in.
I would see Jack.
I would fly into Florida and see him in theoffice from time to time.
I would have the luxury of kind of meldingdesign projects with an academy project to
being able to be on the ground with Jack andreally show off what we were doing in his name.

(10:32):
Yep.
And, yeah, that part of it was very gratifyingbecause if you think about the brand, the
academies were the only thing that touched thecustomer.
You can have 400 golf courses around the world.
You can have ice cream.
You can have shirts.
You can have golf clubs.
But at the end of the day, the only persontouching the golfer is a golf instructor.

(10:57):
That's good boys.
So we took that as our responsibility, ourmantra as, yep.
I think it's an overused term now, but, yeah.
Yeah, growing the game in these developingcountries where golf is, you know, not what it
is in America, not what it is in the UK orScotland, knowing that you're going in and

(11:24):
putting an academy in Guam or Jakarta, yeah, orTsingtao, of all places.
I mean, yeah, even outside of Sao Paulo.
Yeah.
golf instruction in many of these markets neverexisted.
And when you come in with a brand like Nicklausand the facilities that we were able to design

(11:50):
and have built and outfitted and bring in theexpat pros to teach Jack's philosophy, and
again, represent Mr.
Nicklaus, kinda mean what you know, what ablast.
A lot of fun, but I gotta imagine there's somecomplexity there.
Right?
Not working in the United States and bringingthese new academies to these different markets.

(12:17):
What are some glaring differences between kindasetting something up here domestically versus
going international like that?
Well, when we would design coaching studios, wewould provide the architects and the engineers
with our specifications.
And, you know, you would constantly be on thephone or email, you know, ensuring that these

(12:41):
specifications were being adhered to and being,yeah, being guaranteed.
No problem.
Don't worry, Mr.
Simons.
Don't worry, Mr.
Simons.
We've got it.
And, you know, Qingdao is a perfect example.
Yeah.
Fly in to, you know, back in those days,install the equipment, put in the high-speed
cameras and the pressure mat and the launchmonitors and the computers.

(13:06):
And instead of having a 3-inch conduit, you hada 1 and a half inch conduit.
You can't feed cables through that sizeconduit.
And, you know, just looking at them going, youknow, you have to tear out the concrete.
We have to tear out the walls.
We have to start over again.

(13:27):
And,
That's gotta be a tough conversation.
That's a it's a tough conversation, becausesometimes there are language differences.
My Chinese is not very good.
My Korean is not very good.
I figured out early on, don't try.
All you're going to do is butcher and offend,so make sure you have a translator wherever you

(13:50):
go.
But, yeah, tough conversation to say.
Yep.
We, you know, we've gotta start over again.
Imagine being the interpreter.
You're telling them what to say, and then theygotta relay the tough message.
They've gotta relay the tough message, and youhave to, you know, you have to keep that, you

(14:12):
know, that face on, if you will.
And and, you know, that's what they call it,saving face in Asia.
You know, you have to maintain your, you know,your confidence and not look like a jerk, while
ensuring that they understand in a polite waythey made a mistake.

(14:34):
It's not my fault.
It's your expense.
And, I guess I will be back in two weeks, andwe'll start over again.
So jump on a plane and, you know, come back tothe States and, do it all over again.
That's incredible.
Tell me a little bit.
So moving beyond the Nicklaus brand, what aresome recent projects that you've been working

(14:56):
on?
Yeah.
We've been, Yeah.
And I'm I'm not at liberty to announce, but wehave a, you know, I was contracted to put
together a branded academy in Vietnam.
Yep.
So okay.
They give me a list of, you know, top 10 namesthat, yeah, are recognizable to them.

(15:19):
And my job is to go out and, yep, negotiatewith a, yeah, with a high-level well-known
instructor that has the interest in expandingtheir brand in Vietnam.
Yeah.
Interesting enough, I just, you know, got offthe phone before we got on and, you know, in

(15:42):
talks in India.
You know, looking at how you can, you know, puttogether golf projects to, you know, introduce
the game to more and more people because inIndia, land is very difficult to put together.
Yeah.
Every literally every citizen in India, Iswear, owns a piece of land.

(16:07):
And, you know, getting, you know, 30 or 40 or50 landowners to agree to yeah.
Or more to put together a golf course is almostimpossible, which is why growing, yeah, golf
course development is tough in India, not tomention water.
So that's where yeah.

(16:29):
How do you put together innovative drivingranges?
How do you put together short courses?
You know, it could be three holes.
It could be six holes.
It could be 12 holes.
It could be nine.
It doesn't matter.
How do you, you know, how do you assembleenough land and bring together a creative golf
experience?

(16:51):
Because at the end of the day, you know, I'mall about, you know, what is the experience?
What is the customer's experience?
What is the golfer's experience?
And, you know, whether it's a Nicklaus brand orsomebody else's brand or nobody's brand.
Yeah.
What is your experience?
That's why you come back a second time, a thirdtime, a fourth time.

(17:14):
Great marketing, great design, will get youthere once.
But if your experience is crappy, why would youcome back and spend your time and spend your
money?
And I think that's where a lot of projects, notjust golf, but a lot of projects fall short is

(17:35):
they don't look at the end consumer who, youknow, who are we designing for?
And if we can't achieve that, poof, you know,we've wasted a whole lot of time and money to
build the Taj Mahal that nobody wants.
That's really interesting.
And just that dynamic that you just mentioned,and it sounds like I mean, especially bringing

(17:59):
golf courses over to, let's say, India soundsnot only complicated and complex, but at the
same time like it's kind of a disruptor withinthat market.
So now we got to dive into the hot topic whichis LIV Golf.
I mean it has been the—and we're just gonna getright into it because, really working with

(18:20):
disruptors and bringing to new markets and soforth, how do you think LIV Golf is or how do
you see them as a disruptor in the market?
And ultimately, do you think it's good for thegame?
Well, yeah, in I think in the traditionalsense, especially with the PGA Tour, yeah.

(18:43):
You know, for sure, LIV is a disruptor.
If you go to Bangkok, Thailand to a LIV event,you're not disrupting anything.
You're bringing the best players in the worldto your country.
They don't care if it's 54 holes, a shotgun,you know, music, whatever.

(19:05):
They're having the opportunities that the PGATour would never give them by traveling to,
yeah, to traveling to Thailand or bringing,yeah, a major tour with big stars back to
Australia.
So yes.
Yeah.
Are they going to Chicago?

(19:26):
Are big crowds gonna show up?
You know, who knows?
Maybe, maybe not.
Not everybody is into their model and theirpresentation.
But outside of, you know, the protected bordersof the United States, yeah, LIV is, you know,
LIV is making a difference in exposing the gameof golf.

(19:51):
Is it growing it?
I don't know.
That's up to, you know, that's up to, I guess,people like me and others that are developing
projects that reach the masses, but they'reexposing the game of golf and, you know, to
show up and, you know, see Jon Rahm, to seePhil Mickelson.

(20:15):
Hell.
I mean, if I was in Thailand, I would buy aticket and go see it.
Right?
Because you would not ever have thatopportunity.
So for that reason, sure.
You know, it is it's exposing masses, millionsand millions of people to the game of golf.
I think you raise a really good point with theinternational aspect because outside of the

(20:37):
United States, I mean, we get so often, andthis was kind of an awakening for me as well as
I say this, around the fact that especiallywhen I started interacting on Twitter or X, and
all of a sudden, you start getting theseinternational opinions and you start to see
kind of how, you know, a lot of people areagainst the PGA Tour from international areas,

(21:02):
and it tends to be Australia, tends to be theUK a little bit.
And it's really interesting to have thisdynamic to where people within the United
States, a lot of them are pro-PGA Tour anddon't want LIV.
Granted, there's certainly people within theUnited States that like LIV Golf and so forth.
I've always played a neutral; I've always beena neutral party around it because I just don't

(21:26):
take the politics as a part of the argument,and if you remove that, you just focus in on
the golfers, then you tend to have more of aneutral opinion towards LIV Golf in particular.
But again, going back to the internationalaspect and how it's exposing the game and it's
bringing the game to these different areasinternationally and becoming a little bit of a

(21:49):
global tour.
But do you think that with it being more on theglobal aspect, and them talking about this and
bringing these players over and exposing themto these new areas, that it should have more of
an international focus than even what it hastoday, where still we've got multiple

(22:10):
tournaments throughout the year taking placehere in the United States?
Yeah.
I mean, you know, LIV has to make a mark in theStates to be, you know, whatever successful is
to them.
Right?
I mean, you have to have the number one mediamarket.

(22:30):
You have to have that exposure or I'm not sosure the ultimate business model works,
whatever that may be.
But, you know, not only do you see, you know,like, the excitement of a LIV tournament coming
to these countries in these areas, you also seeplayers that are on LIV that are no longer able

(22:56):
to play PGA Tour events, they can play DP Tourevents to get their world points so they can
qualify for majors.
And so all of a sudden, you've got, again,world-class players that are playing, you know,
Asian Tour events, whoever sanctioning whateverto get points.

(23:17):
Yeah.
Now you've got, you know, the Abraham Ancers ofthe world playing events that you never would
have seen before.
So the downstream positive effect of LIV, youknow, is, you know, I think it's also being
underappreciated by, and God bless their souls,these players.

(23:41):
Yes, they signed on.
They knew what they were signing for.
They certainly cashed the checks.
Yeah.
But they're still, I mean, they're out therechasing their world ranking points to get into
majors and, you know, knock on wood, you know,one of these days, you know, allowed to play
Ryder Cup.

(24:02):
That certainly would be interesting.
I know a lot of people have talked about, we'dlove to see a Ryder Cup set up between LIV
players and PGA Tour players.
So there's that aspect too that maybe somepoint down the road, we get something a little
bit like that.
But just to have somebody, and I know KeeganBradley as the captain of the U.S.
Ryder Cup team for 2025 said, I want the bestplayers in the world.

(24:25):
I don't want it just to be PGA Tour players.
So it sounds like that opens up the door onceagain to a Brooks Koepka, to ultimately a
Bryson DeChambeau potentially.
So that'll be interesting to see how thatdynamic all takes place.
But you did raise a good point around the DPWorld Tour and how, you know, players that you

(24:46):
normally wouldn't see playing in those eventsare starting to play in those events because
they need official world golf rankings.
I don't want to go so far into the weeds withthe official world golf rankings because that
is we could have an hour-long conversation justaround that alone.
But it's kind of a cause and effect to where,you know, they aren't getting the official

(25:07):
World Golf Ranking points from the LIV Golfcircuit, and now they're going to have to chase
those points and continue to get those throughthe DP World Tour.
So, ultimately, do you think it's been apositive for the DP World Tour?
I think live well, yes and no because I mean,there's some that, you know, that were, I'll

(25:35):
just cut names.
They're European Tour players.
It's called DP World Tour.
You know, the Lee Westwoods and the Sergios ofthe world, they got banished unless they paid,
you know, a fine to come back.
Can they afford it?
Yeah.
So in principle, it's really guys.
But, yeah.

(25:56):
So I don't think that certainly, that did nothelp the DP World Tour because they lost some
real mainstays, you know, the Lee Westwoods ofthe world.
I mean, yeah, in the UK and in Europe, I mean,and Sergio, I mean, they are they were they
were that tour.
So it hurt in that aspect, but you're right.

(26:16):
Being able to see those that, you know, thatwant to qualify through the majors by the
points, then, yes, there is a benefit from LIV.
Now with the rivalry between LIV and the PGATour, what impact do you see this having on
player decisions, sponsorship deals, and theoverall structure of professional golf moving

(26:38):
forward?
Oof.
Kind
of a loaded question there.
I know.
Loaded question on one that I wish would beresolved yesterday.
You know, yeah.
But at least again, I'm, you know, I'm one man.
I have an opinion, and I, you know, I live inthe gray zone as I call it.

(26:59):
You know?
But, yeah, I, for one, I'm tired of I'm tiredof listening about the money.
You know, on the tour side, LIV, it kinda getsbrushed into the end of the rug a little bit
now, just because not that many people follow.
But, yeah, I'm tired about I'm tired abouthearing about the massive amounts of money
they're playing for.

(27:21):
I'm tired of, you know, the signature events.
I don't think they are doing, you know, theecosystem any favors by, you know, having 60
limited field events for $20 million purses,$25 million purses.
That's LIV without a shotgun start in 54 holes.

(27:45):
Yep.
Yep.
The, you know, the equipment sponsors, theclothing sponsors, you know, the difficult
position they were put into when their playerssigned with LIV.
You know, you see, you know, a lot of guys wereforced to become free agents, which isn't
necessarily always a bad thing.

(28:07):
Yeah.
But several long-time, you know, long-termrelationships because of that decision.
You know, why would an equipment manufacturer,yeah, go, you know, and cut them off?
You know, that's obviously another discussionthat could take another hour.
But, yeah, going forward, I'd love to see howreal, you know, people can come to the table

(28:33):
and, you know, come up with a, you know, comeup with a way that benefits the game, not
benefits one tour or the other organization orwhatever they're called.
You know, that benefits the game, you know,that's why the majors are so valuable now
because you do know, if people could get theirworld rankings, you know, you see the best

(28:57):
players in the world playing four times a year.
That's why if people put differences aside, theRyder Cups, yep, are incredibly valuable.
You know, the Olympics, you know, you know, is,you know, incredibly valuable because you see
even though those are kinda weird fields, howthey come together, but, know, the best players

(29:21):
in the world have an opportunity to compete asthey should, and that's what I would love to
see, yeah, eventually come together.
I'm gonna piggyback off of something that youdid say with the ecosystem of the PGA Tour for
instance with these signature series eventsbecause you look at some of these players that

(29:41):
have been either out there for a long period oftime or those that are just trying to break in
to the PGA Tour system and are full-timemembers and so forth, but they don't get to
play in enough meaningful events.
So I look at somebody like Kevin Streelman, forinstance, who wasn't able to play the Travelers
this year even though he's a past championbecause it was a signature series event.

(30:05):
Now all of a sudden because we would always getthose guys that, you know, one tournament that
they just break through at, and all of a suddenthey have a big win that kind of projects them
forward and keeps them on tour and so forth.
You haven't really been able to see that per sebecause of these signature series events.

(30:28):
So I do want to kind of reask again to you, isthis a good thing for the PGA Tour?
I know you mentioned that you don't like thesignature series events, but the PGA Tour as a
whole, is it a positive that it's shrinkingdown to just the big names, so to speak, that
people are able to get a little bit moreattached to?

(30:49):
Or and this is a tough question because itkinda comes down to, do you see it as a
positive that the PGA Tour is technicallyshrinking?
I don't I don't see it as a positive.
I mean, yeah, I feel for the non-signatureevents.

(31:10):
The sponsors that are still putting upmultimillion-dollar sponsorship fees, and
because they're not a signature event, they'renot getting top players.
Yeah.
To come to them.
And so for your $20 million investment or $35million investment to be a title sponsor, you

(31:31):
know, you're not getting, you know, you're notgetting that draw, if you will.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The players that are playing in those, I mean,god I mean, don't we all wish we were that
good?
Yeah.
So so I mean yeah.
It's it's a shame that they're being discountedbecause they're not part of this elite group.

(31:54):
But, no, I love watching, you know, PGA Tourevents, when sure.
You you you had five or six of the top playerson the leaderboard, but you also had three or
four guys.
You're going, who the hell are they?
And next thing you know, they win or take asecond.

(32:19):
And, you know, the next year, they're thestuds.
They're the ones that have come out of, quote,unquote, nowhere.
Yeah.
Where does it yeah.
How does the Scottie Schefflers of the worldget an opportunity to, you know, get into that
circuit if they can't get enough points toyeah.

(32:40):
Yep.
Through through one signature event.
I'm so glad that you said somebody like ScottieScheffler because he didn't break through right
away.
Right?
So he was somebody that was kinda around,around, around, and then finally had his big
breakthrough.
And then just all of a sudden the floodgatesopen, and he started winning a lot.
And then obviously, we've seen over the pastcouple years what Scottie Scheffler has become,

(33:04):
but that wasn't him in the early days.
He needed some time.
And I even go back to, you know, like MajorLeague Baseball.
I'm a huge Yankees fan, and you look atsomebody like Nestor Cortes who, as a starting
pitcher for the New York Yankees, it took him areally long time in the minor leagues and so
forth before he really found who he was.
Sometimes it takes 10, 15 years.

(33:26):
Sometimes golfers don't reach their their kindapeak of their golf game until their early to
So it's like, man, what are we doing to helpdevelop these players?
And I know there's the Korn Ferry Tour, but theKorn Ferry Tour just doesn't have that same
aspect to it that the PGA Tour does.

(33:46):
They don't play as good of golf courses or aslong of golf courses, and it becomes oftentimes
where you just have to shoot an extremely lownumber on the Korn Ferry Tour in order to
become something, and that's not what ends upwinning a lot of these major championships.
It's not often the guys that can just go lightsout and make 30 birdies in a tournament.

(34:11):
It's guys that can grind and, you know, it'snot, you know, having the best players in the
world competing at the same tournaments versushaving what the PGA Tour always was, which is a

(34:38):
great platform, and you have those breakthroughstories.
And I absolutely love that.
I mean, one of the things that we are spoiledwith right now is that we still do have a
couple young guys that have been able to breakthrough, like a Nick Dunlap, like a Ludvig
Åberg.
And I know the tour is trying to do some ofthose things to kind of propel those, the top
1%, in collegiate golf, for instance, to givethem those opportunities without having to go

(35:05):
to Q School.
And so there's some aspects that they're addingback.
I just don't see long term how this is going tobenefit the tour as a whole and allow some of
these guys to kind of work their way up to apoint to where they start to be really what
they could be in the game of golf.

(35:26):
So I'm with you around that entirely.
Now I do want to move a little bit into theindustry impacts and the future predictions
that you have around the game of golf and howthis is impacting the industry.
So given everything happening between LIV Golfand the PGA Tour, where do you see, as a
visionary, heading over the next five to tenyears?

(35:50):
Oh, boy.
And the industry specifically, I should say.
What was that?
The industry.
So the golf industry specifically.
Well, yeah.
The, yeah, the golf industry, you know, you'reyou're going to see, you know, and it's it's
coming up.
I mean, there's a crossroads here.
Right?
That we're going to limit ball flight.

(36:12):
Right?
That's true.
Okay.
You know, but unless they, you know, unlessthey limit the driver, you know, they're just
you know, the the, you know, the equipment guysare gonna catch up.
Yeah.
And and they always have.
You know, you you watch the you watch thetelecast and, you know, guys are hitting

(36:35):
8-irons 210 yards.
So true.
Okay.
You know, what's the, you know, what, you know,what is that, you know, what does that mean?
Well, I mean, they got their equipment dialedin.
They've got unbelievable conditions, right?
I mean, you know, you know, they're playingballs.
They don't curve anymore.
It's pretty, pretty tough to, you know, reallyhit a snap hook at that level.

(36:58):
Yeah.
But their 8-iron loft setup may be the same asmy
I don't know.
Right?
You know, so, you know, they say, oh, yeah.
He's hitting an 8-iron 200 yards.
You go out to the driving range.
You go, well, why can't I hit an 8-iron 200yards?
I don't know.
But, yeah, I digress there.
So where's the industry going?

(37:20):
I think it's, you know, I think the, I thinkthe rollback of the ball is going to be
something to watch.
You know, the equipment manufacturers, the ballmanufacturers obviously are not too excited
about that.
Oh, it's gotta be killing Titleist.
I mean, they've got their stranglehold over thegolf ball side of golf, and they've got to

(37:42):
rework all their golf balls.
I mean, that's the main part of Titleist'sbusiness if you ask me.
So I, and I'm curious what you think in regardsto how damaging that could be to a manufacturer
like Titleist.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, I think, yeah.
I, I, I don't know.
I believe they've got engineers that are smartenough to know, I mean, they've, they've

(38:04):
already got the ball figured out.
Yep.
When they talk about dialing the ball back,this is not, you know, this is not new news.
You know, this discussion has been going on fora long time.
So you know that they've been planning, if youwill, worst-case scenario, we're going to have
to dial the ball back.

(38:24):
What is our ball going to look like?
Titleist will still be the number one ball.
Yeah.
Callaway and TaylorMade will still be, yeah,working their way there.
Srixon and Bridgestone will still be playing inthe same sandbox as everybody.
Everybody gets dialed back.
Yes.

(38:45):
You think it
favors anybody, though?
No.
No.
I don't think so.
I mean, well, you know, a lot of it comes downto marketing anyway.
Sure.
Right?
You know, if you're a Titleist guy, you'restill gonna play a Titleist ball.
You know?
And the free agents, you know, they're gonnalook at, you know, either what performs best
for them or maybe what the bonus schedule is asthey place well.

(39:11):
You know?
Who's gonna, you know, who's gonna pay them themost money for playing their product even
though they're not a, quote, unquote, topendorser.
You know, it hurts the little guys, that havebeen working so hard and spending so much money
to build a better product to compete with theTitleists of the world.
Those are the guys, I think, that are gettingpunched in their teeth a little bit.

(39:36):
The average player yeah.
I've been out there long enough with launchmonitors before launch monitors even worked.
And, you know, everybody thinks they hit it285.
Yeah.
You put a launch monitor down.
I mean, I've got a great story.
You know, we put an academy at a NicklausAcademy of Pronghorn.

(39:58):
And, you know, we hadn't even dialed everythingin yet.
We had a launch monitor.
Everything was starting to work, and you hadmembers, you know, really good members, that
came down, and they're watching us going, whatis that?
Hey.
We hit some shots.
And, you know, they get in there, and nextthing you know, we're having cocktails

(40:19):
delivered down from the clubhouse.
You know, but the boys are having a contest,you know, how far they can hit their driver.
And they were really disheartened to find outthat, you know, what they thought was 290 in
reality was 245.
And yeah.
I love that.
Yeah.
And, you know, you go out to the range or yougo out to the golf course, you know, every day,

(40:44):
and people's perception of how far they hit theball is not reality.
And that's why, you know, the advancements oflaunch monitors and making, you know, if you
will, consumer launch monitors available thatgive people a clue as to how short they are.

(41:05):
Yeah.
If the average player loses five yards, that'snot the that's not the that's not the end of
the world, Joe.
It's so true.
And I just have to piggyback off of thatbecause I've had my experience as a vice
president of sales and marketing for a golftechnology company, and, man, it just resonates

(41:28):
when people would come into the golf simulator,especially when golf simulators were trying to
break the mold of being just a rich man's toyto all of a sudden being like, no.
This is a serious tool that you can use in yourhome in order to practice and get better.
Now we're to the point 10 years later to where,yeah, that has become the conversation piece

(41:51):
versus, you know, it's not accurate.
This is a piece of junk, whatever.
Like, it's just a video game for rich guys.
So that resonates with me so hard because weused to all the time go to the PGA Show in
Orlando and have the simulator set up andeverything.
And sure enough, you'd always get the guythat's like, oh, I hit my driver 300 yards.

(42:14):
Then they get up there and they hit a 235carry.
It ends up rolling out to, like, 245, andthey're like miffed.
They're like, this isn't accurate at all.
This thing's terrible.
This thing doesn't know how far I hit mydriver.
And it's just like you sit there and you'relike, guy, you just got out of your car.
Like, you just walked up to the first golfsimulator you saw.

(42:38):
And not only are you not warmed up at all, butalso you don't hit the ball that far.
So that resonates with me so much so, becausethere were just numerous conversations around
that.
So I'm really glad that you brought up thataspect to it.
But, yeah, I do wonder, like, do you think thatwith the golf ball rollback in particular over

(43:00):
these next 5, 10 years, that the right decisionwas made to include the amateurs in that, or
should it have just been around theprofessional game?
I think it should have just been around theprofessional game.
Yeah.
Are we all playing the same equipment?
You know?
Is my tennis racket the same as Djokovic's?

(43:23):
No.
Yeah.
Is, yeah, is, yeah, my kid's bat, now that Ihave a kid that plays baseball, the same as
Aaron Judge's bat?
No.
The pros have different equipment.
They do.
Why why why do we take this stance in this gamethat we all have to play the same equipment?
I mean, no.

(43:43):
It it it I don't think it makes I don't thinkit makes a difference.
I think they should have left the ball foramateurs.
Remember what you you remember when hot driverscame out.
Right?
Oh, yeah.
Callaway had a hot driver.
You know, you can't play this driver.
You can't play that driver.
And, you know, gee, you know, if you're in afoursome and Jim shows up and, you know, he's

(44:05):
got that Callaway that's on the, you know,forbid list, oof.
You know, gotta watch out for Jim.
He's a cheater.
Yep.
Holy shit.
What did he do?
Hit it 3 yards further.
Right?
I mean, no.
I mean, yeah, I think that, you know, let theamateurs play.
Let them again, you know, it's the experience.

(44:27):
My whole thing and I wrote a story for apublication in South Africa, an industry
publication, and I'll release it here in theStates.
But I wrote an article about I went to amunicipal facility in California on a site
visit as a consultant.
And, yeah, it was an 18-hole par 3, been aroundsince the '60s, if not the '50s, 1960s, 9-hole

(44:56):
putt-putt course.
Give them credit, a really pretty good drivingrange.
And people were just having fun.
Yep.
They'd show up.
They'd pay a green fee, whatever it was.
Some people carry their clubs in their hands.
Yep.
Some people had a big staff bag and a pullcart.

(45:17):
Some people kept scores.
Some didn't.
You had couples.
You had families.
You had, you know, guys playing a money gamefor sure.
They were just having fun.
And all of a sudden, I go, wait a minute.
You know, I keep talking about, you know, thisand that.
Well, you know, you're talking about, you know,being around the best golfers, the best clubs,

(45:40):
the best resorts, the best academies you canfind.
And I walked out of there going, shit.
Excuse me.
Yep.
Oh, you're fine.
This is an unfiltered golf podcast, Ted.
You can swear all you want.
Okay.
Now, you know, you're about the floodgates.
But I walked away going, you know, people arejust having fun.

(46:00):
And if the industry can get out of their ownway, put their egos aside, and realize that to
sustain the game, not grow the game, sustainthe game, we have to give people an opportunity
to just go out and have fun.
Yeah.
There's nothing wrong with standing there atthe driving range for an hour and just hitting

(46:24):
nothing but slices, you know, and bringing thefence into play 90% of the time.
They're having fun.
If they get lucky and hit a straight one thatwent 220, yep.
That's the one shot again.
What's the one shot that'll bring you back?
Yeah.
That's why I always tell golf courses.

(46:45):
Yeah.
If you want to do it right, make sure your No.
1 tee ground is as pristine as you can possiblyget it, and your 9th or 18th green is perfect.
That's what people remember.
People will remember that green as they walkedoff.
If it's a piece of crap, they're gonna go,yeah, that, you know, the golf course is a dog

(47:09):
track.
Yeah.
If you walk off and if you tee off and there'sno grass, there's nothing on your first hole,
your perception is this is not gonna be a goodday.
Gosh.
That's such a really good piece of advice toanybody working on golf courses out there to
make sure and I didn't even think about that,but you're absolutely right because it sets

(47:32):
your entire perception up for the rest of theround from the 1st tee box.
And then the 18th green, you're walking off,and that's gonna be your last perception of
what just took place.
That's the last thing you're gonna remember, Ishould say.
So that's huge advice for anybody listeningthat's in the golf course business, even as a

(47:53):
greenskeeper and so forth that, yeah, make surethat those are tidied up.
Now you've worked so much internationally thatI do wanna ask you one other question around
it, which do you see the global expansion ofgolf continuing, or do you see that kinda
constricting or how it might change in thesport of golf?

(48:17):
I think it's either country or regiondependent.
Okay.
Yep.
And, you know, in the mature markets, UK,Scotland, Ireland, Spain, to a certain extent,
you know, they're mature.
I think the golf industry like it is or can bein the States, could be challenged.

(48:41):
But when you go to India, you go to SouthAmerica, you go to China, Southeast Asia, the
golf boom is real.
Okay.
You know, it is real.
It's up to, you know, in the case of China,it's up to the government to allow golf to
prosper.

(49:03):
Yep.
You see South Korea, I mean, you can't or inJapan, you can't get more mature than those
markets are, yet the game continues to beincredibly sought after, you know, by adults.
You know, it's a game of prestige, andcertainly parents wanting their kids that

(49:25):
opportunity to excel at the game of golf as anopportunity, you know, if you will, to come and
play golf in the States, get a scholarship, youknow, throughout Asia.
You know, their goal is to go to Stanford.
Stanford's only got so many spots available,and you have to have good grades and you have

(49:49):
to be a good player.
And in Asia, in most at least in most cases,education comes first, sports come second.
And so you know they've got the grades.
Now as an academy or as a coach, yourresponsibility is to, you know, is to get them
to be that good of a player that they can beyou know, they can come to ASU here in Arizona.

(50:14):
You know, they can go to Stanford, then go toCal.
Yeah.
Do you think the Stanford side of it is drivenbecause of Tiger?
I know Tiger has driven a lot of the Asianmarket, but is that one of the significant
reasons behind, you know, the goal of gettingto Stanford?
No.
Stanford is such a brand.

(50:35):
Now if you go back to brands, yeah.
Yeah.
Stanford is a brand.
You know, you travel around and I'm not aBuckeye fan, but you travel around and you see
Ohio State Buckeye gear freaking everywhere.
Same thing.
Yankees.
It's a brand.
Yeah.

(50:56):
True.
So, yeah, I think Stanford is a brand.
Certainly, Tiger did not hurt.
And the Tiger effect is still alive and well,you know, in, you know, in parts of Asia
because that's all they, you know, that's allthey saw.
You know, Jack and Arnie and Gary, you know,they were no longer part of the equation when

(51:20):
the golf explosion hit in their market.
Interesting.
Now I do want to spend a little bit of timearound your project highlights and personal
insights because the audience, you know, we gota lot of people that are looking to break into
the golf industry in particular.
And one of the things that I wanna ask isyou've been involved in a lot of groundbreaking

(51:42):
projects over the years.
Can you share a few that have stood out andultimately what did you learn from them?
Yeah.
I look at and, you know, I and I'm I'm at faulthere.
Right?
I you know, we developed, successfully had apatented, brought it to market.

(52:02):
We're at the PGA show.
We did the we did the whole thing.
You know, we invented the first handheldstatistical computer for golf.
It's called the Stat Tracker 2.
The reason it was number 2 is Stat Tracker 1looked like a Kleenex box.
That's what the engineer came up with, and weturned it into a product that is the size of an

(52:27):
iPhone.
And you were able to track four players at onetime and, yep, 14 valuable stats, did all the
calculations, you know exactly what your yourfairways hit, your GIRs, your up and downs.
Yep.
We downloaded it into your, god, Windows Vistamaybe.

(52:51):
Yep.
Stuff that doesn't even exist.
Yep.
But was it commercially successful?
No.
Because yeah.
It was too hard to convince the market thevalue of tracking your stats.
Interesting.
We tried to spin it as a betting game becausewe used it to bet.

(53:13):
We would bet on our stats and we'd sit at theJeremy Ranch Golf and Country Club in Park
City, Utah.
We would download our stats and go, okay.
Yeah.
You owe me $5 each in GIRs.
Well, I got that $5 back because I beat you inputts.
Yeah.
So, you know, we tried different ways ofmarketing the product.

(53:34):
It was ahead of its time because now everyphone has a stat program built into it.
There's value in that.
So, you know, you have to know it's thegreatest idea in the world, but you have to
know if the market is ready for you, and do youhave the staying power to get that market

(53:58):
acceptance?
You know, do you have enough money?
Do you have enough conviction?
You know, do you have the right marketingmessage, the right platforms to make the
product successful?
So, yeah, I always talk to people that want tocome in on the golf market, and I call golf

(54:19):
sexy.
Yep.
It's a sexy sport to get into.
You know who your audience is.
Right?
It's a finite group even though it's, you know,millions and millions and millions of people.
Yep.
But, yeah, beyond being sexy, you, you know,you have to I always you know, my marketing

(54:40):
background says, okay.
Yep.
Is it a product that's marketable?
Now let's develop it.
Now can we develop it to the right price point,to the right features and benefits?
Yep.
It doesn't do us any good to have the best golfclub in the world if it's $3,000.

(55:01):
Yep.
So you have to, you know, design your company,design your product, service, technology,
whatever it is.
You know, what is the, you know, the endproduct here, the end market, and can you, you
know, can you be successful in that place?
If you can make it work financially, great.
If you've got the wherewithal to keep comingback to that PGA Merchandise Show.

(55:27):
It as painful as it is, and you know it verywell.
I do.
You know, can you, you know, can you have theright sales team out there?
Can you, you know, do all the things that willmake a startup product a success?
Golf is a great one to start with, but I alwayssay, look down the road because if you're

(55:51):
developing it for golf, it may have the sameapplication in baseball.
And baseball is infinitely a much biggerparticipation sport in the States than golf.
If you think about youth baseball, youthsoftball, the NCAA level.
If it works for baseball, does it work forcricket?

(56:15):
Now you could take your product to India wherecricket is—yeah.
Cricket beats everything.
Yeah.
This is something that can be developed ormodified for tennis or pickleball, for heaven's
sake.
So look outside of the golf market as you'redeveloping it.

(56:35):
What else can you do with it?
Prove it in golf, but always have an eye towhere, you know, there's a much bigger ocean
out there than the golf market.
pretty much—I had a couple questions aroundthat, and you nailed it across the entire part
of that segment.

(56:55):
So I'm gonna move into our final segment, whichis our rapid-fire Q&A.
And first question that I have for you as youget onto the hot seat is what's your favorite
golf course that you've ever worked on orvisited?
I'm biased, even though this is not a Nicklausgolf course, but, in Marbella, Spain.

(57:18):
Oh, wow.
Your views are looking over the Mediterranean.
I love mountain courses.
You know, growing up in Utah, specificallyliving in Park City for 28 years, I love
elevation changes.
I love that challenge of the game—sidehilllies, uphill, downhills, and I had an academy

(57:40):
there.
But I mean, it's just a fabulous golf coursewith views to die for.
So think of Finca Cortesin in Spain.
Beautiful.
Now, next question.
What do you think is the biggest game changerin golf technology today?

(58:04):
I think it's ball tracking, you know, which isbroad.
Right?
I could say launch monitors.
I could say simulators.
I could say driving range tech.
I think it's ball tracking, you know, becausewhen you, you know, simulated indoor golf now
is incredible.
You know, the stuff is good.
I mean, the technology is good whether, youknow, you incorporate a TrackMan or a

(58:28):
FlightScope or use, yeah.
Yeah.
Use, you know, Full Swing or whomever it maybe.
I mean, the technology is good.
You get good data back.
If you are at a driving range, whether it'sToptracer, TrackMan in range, you're getting
good data.
Seeing ball flight, you know, is fun, and Ithink it's more engaging to the customer when

(58:56):
they learn to appreciate it.
Yep.
I'm gonna go off here a little bit, but, youknow, you work with driving ranges and they
wanna bring you technology, but they stillwanna have a certain number of bays and
buckets.
Well, once you give people an opportunity tosee what their ball flight is, what their

(59:17):
distances are, how right and left they are,and, you know, they can't track that with their
eyes.
Now all of a sudden, it's engaging that guythat used to hit a small bucket of balls is
more than happy to pay for an hour of good dataat a driving range and possibly maybe have a
beer or a sandwich or a Diet Coke or whatever.

(59:41):
So to me, it's ball tracking.
You see it on the TV telecast.
Why not see it when you hit the ball?
I love that, and I couldn't agree more.
Now, last question here in the rapid-fire Q andA.
Who's your dream foursome, living or deceased?
Oh, it's got I mean, it it yeah.
It's it's easy.

(01:00:02):
For me, for me, it's easy.
I'm still alive, so I'm included.
Jack, you know, you know, to play a round ofgolf with Jack, and I'm selfish.
I'm gonna have my two sons.
Oh, love that.
Dustin and Ryan.
I mean, father-son golf, I think is, yeah, isone of the greatest experiences in life.

(01:00:24):
And to, you know, maybe go play a round of golfwith Jack, and my boys.
So it.
Game over.
Love that answer.
I love that aspect of the father-son, and thenadding Jack into the mix as well.
So clearly, he didn't get that mad at you toooften because you wanna still play golf with

(01:00:45):
him, which is nice.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Should still wanna go play golf with them.
Absolutely.
It would have said a lot if Jack wasn't in yourdream foursome.
But, that being said, as we conclude thisepisode with Ted Simons, this was fantastic,
very insightful.
I think the audience really is going to takeaway a lot from this conversation, not only

(01:01:10):
around LIV Golf, the international aspects, thebusiness aspects that you brought up as well.
I think your insights were unique and differentthan what we've had on the show previously
because you have that international experience.
And, certainly, I do want to thank you for yourtime, and it's been a pleasure having you on
the show to provide us with all of thoseinsights.

(01:01:32):
Now to our listeners, definitely make sure tocheck out Synergy Group Consulting if you're
looking for top-tier consulting in sports anddevelopment.
Ted, where can somebody go to find moreinformation about Synergy Group Consulting or
your personal side of it as well?
You know, I'm not, I'm not the social mediaking.

(01:01:53):
So, yeah, my website, which issynergygroupconsulting.net.
Yeah.
That's home base.
And then, you know, my idea of social media isLinkedIn, and you will find me on LinkedIn, and
you will see me, actually, you'll find me therequite a bit.

(01:02:13):
But no, I'm not, I know I have an Instagram,and I think last I checked, I have five friends
on Facebook.
So, I'm I'm I'm not there.
So, yeah.
There you go.
You're not building a social media empire.
That's for sure, Ted.
Well, once again, thank you for coming on tothe Pull Hook Golf Podcast.
And, once again, thank you, Ted, for being apart of this show with us here today, and stay

(01:02:39):
tuned to next week for the next episode.
See you, everybody.
Thank you very much, man.