June 3, 2025 • 55 mins
In this episode of Purpose Project, host Leslie Pagel talks with Jim Money, the former President of Automotive Finance Corporation (AFC). Jim shares his journey of leading a purpose-driven transformation at AFC by helping employees identify their “why” at work. He discusses his career and the evolution of his leadership philosophy. The conversation underscores the significance of purpose in creating a cohesive, motivated, and successful workplace. Jim emphasizes the ongoing commitment required to keep purpose alive in an organization and the positive impact it has on employee engagement and company performance.
00:00 Introduction to Purpose Project
00:46 Meet Jim Money: Personal and Professional Background
01:51 Jim's Career Journey and Retirement
04:14 Discovering Life's Purpose
07:00 Jim’s Purpose The Three Cs: Community, Connections, and Council
13:47 Transitioning to a Purpose-Driven Leadership
15:37 Implementing Purpose in the Workplace
23:04 Challenges and Impact of Purpose-Driven Leadership
27:23 Purpose and Values in Hiring and Retention
30:58 The Power of Purpose in Action
32:03 Embedding Values into Daily Practices
37:27 Quarterly Check-ins for Continuous Improvement
39:26 The Impact of Purpose on Business Growth
42:57 Aligning Mission, Vision, and Purpose
46:22 Personal Purpose and Professional Fulfillment
51:47 Advice for Leaders and Managers
53:27 Final Thoughts on Purpose in the Workplace
Purpose Project is a research study on the topic of life's purpose. You can follow along in the making of Purpose Project:
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Episode Transcript
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Leslie (00:04):
Welcome to Purpose Project.
I'm your host, Leslie Pagel Inthis episode, I sit down with
Jim Money, a former President ofAutomotive Finance Corporation
or AFC.
Jim shares how he led apurpose-driven transformation
within the organization byhelping employees uncover their
(00:24):
why at work.
His story shows what's possiblewhen leadership goes beyond
strategy and takesresponsibility for cultivating
purpose.
Let's take a listen.
Jim, thank you for being an onpurpose project.
I'm looking forward to talkingabout how purpose shows up in
the workplace.
Jim (00:44):
Alright?
Yeah, you bet.
Great to be here.
Leslie (00:46):
Wonderful.
Before we dive in, tell us alittle bit about yourself, both
personally and professionally.
Jim (00:52):
Alright, so, uh, personally, um, I've uh, been
married for going on 34 yearsto, congratulations.
My best friend, uh, Laurie.
And we have a son who is, uh,25.
He's a Butler grad, so we'reboth IU grads.
So, but that was great.
Uh, I'm in, I love to cook.
My wife hates to cook so that itworks out really well, works
(01:13):
out.
Uh, and I actually found outthat on bad days at work, in, in
those days that, uh, you know,doing things that required a lot
of dicing really came in handy.
You know, you try to get rid ofsome of the frustrations, but
no.
I love to cook and, uh, I loveto walk.
I, I used to like to run, but myknees don't like that.
Uh, love music.
(01:34):
I would rather listen to musicall night than watching a TV
show.
Um, avid reader, um, and, uh,travel quite a bit.
Nice.
And actually, you know, thelast, this year and last year,
we've traveled quite a bitbecause on April the first, I.
Retired, or as I like to callit, I entered my second half
(01:55):
because retirement sounds soold.
Um, but, uh, you know, I spent25 years with a company called
Automotive Finance Corporation.
Mm-hmm.
Um, started out as their, uh,controller, worked my way up to
be the, uh, CFO of theorganization, and then spent the
last eight years as thepresident.
A FC is a part of anorganization called Open Lane,
(02:18):
which is a publicly heldcompany.
So I've been in that space forthe last 25 years.
And then before that I did alittle tour duty.
It's gonna sound crazy in thetoying game business.
Oh, really?
CFO there, uh, did a little timein the transportation business
up north of West Lafayette.
Spent some time at Anthem,locally and, and a little time
(02:39):
in, uh.
The, uh, public accountingspace.
Yeah.
So, uh, so that's me, uh, youknow, personally and
professionally.
Yeah.
Leslie (02:48):
So I heard family.
Mm-hmm.
I heard a bit of curiosity andwonder and, um, kind of letting,
letting your mind wander throughwalking and through cooking and
Oh, yes.
And things traveling.
Then it sounds like most of yourcareer in the finance aspect
(03:11):
ending as kind of oversight forthe, for the entire business.
Jim (03:15):
Correct.
I, I, you know, I'm a beancounter by, uh, you know,
college as an accountant got myCPA, but I worked like heck to
try to stop doing accounting.
I got bored with it.
Okay.
But I, I liked the other side ofthe business world.
I, I liked.
I was really good with numbers.
Mm-hmm.
But I liked trying to figure outhow do we move the business
(03:38):
forward through all of thepeople in the organization.
Leslie (03:40):
Okay.
Jim (03:41):
That, that is, that's where I was working towards.
Right, right.
I was never a traditional CFO.
Yeah.
I was not the guy who lived inthe gap and the Fas b pronounce
my world.
I, I wasn't that tech technicalguy.
I was more of the guy thinkingabout the operations of the
business and the strategy andwhere we're going.
Uh, and obviously.
(04:01):
Uh, love doing things from aleadership perspective.
Leslie (04:04):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So that makes sense.
A natural progression to bepresident Yeah.
Of the organization.
Jim (04:12):
That was the goal.
Leslie (04:13):
Yeah.
Uh, before we dive into purposein the workplace, a question I
ask everyone is whether or notyou have a life's purpose.
Jim (04:23):
You know, I, I do.
And, and you know, and I'll tellyou that, uh, for a big chunk of
time, it really was.
Can, how can I help smallbusinesses be successful?
Mm-hmm.
And so thinking so it was veryprofessional.
Okay.
Yeah.
Very much my, and that was a bigpart of my life, uh, because
(04:44):
everything I've done, I'veeither been serving small
businesses or I've been in asmall business, so I even know
what it means to face thechallenges and the failures of,
of, of that side of the, theequation.
Being an entrepreneur.
So, um, and that's what my dadwas, so, and I worked with him,
so I got my teeth cut on at areal young age.
(05:06):
So I just was really in awe ofwhat these people did every
single day.
I mean, I think of entrepreneursas heroes,
Leslie (05:16):
Uhhuh,
Jim (05:16):
because they're willing to put everything on the line to
chase a dream mm-hmm.
Of their own.
And so my thought was, how can Ihelp them?
Through their quest and soeverything, and I didn't really
connect the dots until probably2017.
Okay.
That's when I started to connectthe dots as, as far as what was,
(05:38):
what was kind of going on, and,and, and it led me to understand
that that's, that's who I was.
Yeah.
Now I get to March of 23 and thebusiness world is starting to
probably take a toll on me, and,and I knew that I need to step
away.
I, I need, I need to get out andkind of reenergize.
(06:00):
Um, and then something happened.
I'm meeting with a financialadvisor and the world's worst
thing that they can say is, youknow, Jim, you could retire
anytime you want.
And so the light bulb went off.
Obviously my wife goes, oh, no.
You know, kind of one of thosemoments.
But, uh, you know, I told her Iwas ready.
And, and, and, and the time isright.
(06:22):
I had a great succession planalready in place, already had a
guy that was lined up and thankGod that that all came to
fruition.
And I, uh, I shifted and, and,and it was, I'm no longer that
person.
I'm now this person that therewere things that I've always
wanted to do that I've not beenable to do, and so.
(06:42):
I didn't do a real good job oftaking care of community
opportunities.
Okay.
I didn't do a good job of myconnections that I have with
people and, and I, because Ijust was always heads down and,
and, and I realized that Iprobably learned a thing or two
along the way.
And so this, this new purposethat evolved in March of 23 was
(07:07):
I want to serve what I call mythree Cs.
Okay.
Which are community connectionsand council.
And so, uh, I, I, I do a thingevery Friday with my wife, uh,
to serve at a local food pantry.
And there's some other stuffthat, that I've thinking about
trying to dip my toe into.
I've been minding myconnections, my relationships a
(07:28):
lot more than I ever have.
I'm actually building some newones, which is really making me
feel good, you know, as I'mmentoring kind of those twilight
years.
And then the last thing iscounseling.
And, uh, you know, the thingsthat I've learned throughout my
business life.
How can I share those withothers, whether they're in the
for-profit sector or thenon-profit sector?
(07:48):
Mm-hmm.
And, and I have a greatopportunity to do something with
the local foundation and there'ssome other stuff that's going on
there, so those Nice.
That's my time is gonna shiftinto, into doing more serving,
not necessarily entrepreneursnow, serving others within my
community
Leslie (08:04):
right.
Yeah.
So talk a little bit about, youmentioned March, 2023, you, you
had this realization, um, andnow you've identified these
three Cs.
How did that unfold?
Jim (08:22):
Uh, well.
You know, the, the whole processfor me was, uh, I, I, I kept it
internal for a little whilemm-hmm.
For probably about eight weeks.
And so it was March when I hadthe idea that I think the time
is right for me.
And it was early May when I satdown with my wife and I walked
(08:44):
her through it.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
And then it was July when Iwalked my boss.
Through it.
Yeah.
So I was giving, you know, him anine month heads up basically.
Um, and, uh, and through thatentire process as I'm going
along, I'm, I'm just nowrealizing that these were the
things I always wanted to doand, uh, and, and now I have
(09:08):
that time.
So that just became very naturalto me.
Right.
But I'm a very, um, uh, detailoriented kind of a guy.
You know, and then like I tellpeople, I'm a raging introvert.
A raging introvert who's verydetail oriented.
And, and so I thought throughthe entire stage and, and so I
(09:28):
already knew what was gonnahappen over the next few months.
A after that.
I mean, it was always me stayingahead of it.
And I've always been a perpetualplanner, uh, probably, you know,
not to the point where, where,where, where I, uh, cause harm
to some sort of a project.
But, but I like to understandwhere things are going and, and
(09:50):
even think about where I couldpivot if I have to pivot.
Mm-hmm.
And so, uh, I don't likesurprises Okay.
So much.
Mm-hmm.
Sometimes surprises are a goodthing, but most times surprises
can be very challenging.
And so if I can avoid achallenge like that, I, I'll, I
will do that.
So it was a, it was a wellthought out process.
Yeah.
It just continued to evolve andevolve and, uh, uh, the, the
(10:11):
three Cs, uh, uh, were, wereeasy to, to come up with.
And I even used the concept ofthe three C's when, when I was
trying to work people to comeback into the office.
And it wasn't that I wanted toget people back into the, to the
office from a, from, from a, awork perspective.
It was more of from a cultureperspective mm-hmm.
(10:33):
Of, you know, how do we getpeople two to three days back
in, uh, because I really felt,uh, and I use the three Cs at
that stage, that they weremissing out on collaboration.
They were missing out onsomething I called collisions.
And collisions were, you know,things where you were walking
down the hallway and you seeLeslie and you go, Hey, I've
(10:54):
been meaning to talk to youabout something.
Yeah.
You can't do that from home.
Right.
It doesn't happen realnaturally.
And then the biggie wascomradery.
You know, how do we get everyoneback together and to create
excitement And as leaders of thecompany, it was our
responsibility to figure out howdo we do that outside of just
saying, you have to do this.
Leslie (11:10):
Yeah.
Jim (11:10):
Because at the end of the day, it's so much better when.
The folks decide I want to behere.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I want to be here.
And, and that's, that's, uh, sothe three C's I had the three
C's of, of, of return to work,if you wanna call it that.
And it was easy for me to startthinking about this other stuff
and then, you know, it was justpercolating.
Yeah.
(11:31):
Yeah.
It was already probably pre 23even happening in my mind.
Okay.
I knew that.
Okay.
Yeah, I knew I'm getting closerand closer.
I wanted to work till I was 65.
Um.
I stopped at 62.
Leslie (11:44):
Yeah, that's good.
So yeah.
So were the three Cs.
Did you feel yourself movingtowards the three Cs?
Is that what was calling you?
Or did?
Was it more of like, I feel likemy time in the professional
world is coming to an end and asyou're starting to plan for
(12:07):
after that those came?
Jim (12:09):
Yeah, I mean, I was really, uh.
I was physically and, and kindof me mentally exhausted.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, and I knew that Ineed, I need to step aside.
I think for the, for the healthof the organization, I, I felt,
I really felt like it was, Ineeded it for me, but I thought
(12:30):
it was, it was time for, uh,someone else to be in there.
I knew I would've, I would be inroughly eight years.
And I was like, that's a prettygood run for basically like a
CEO type of an individual.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and, that was really thegestation of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, I was, I was ready to go andthen transit, you know, thinking
about the other stuff, you know,I already knew that there was
(12:50):
things like that, that I'd beable to, once I retired, I'd be
able to spend more time doingthis.
Right.
So I already, I was lookingforward to, yeah.
That change of, of pace, and Iwas really looking forward to
the connections.
Mm-hmm.
And that was the one that, uh,and shame on me.
You know, I, I didn't do a realgood job.
I, I was never a good networker.
Um, you know, I.
I was, I'm the guy who hangs outagainst the wall at the party,
(13:13):
nursing the drink, and then theextroverts come over and talk to
me.
You know?
'cause that's just, just, that'snot naturally, uh, how I do
things.
Although I talk with people andthey go like, how can that be?
I mean, I've seen you inpresentations.
I'm like, yeah, I could stand infront of two to 500 people and I
could talk, but I'm like, that'smy job.
Mm-hmm.
(13:33):
But in a personal setting,that's not my job.
But, uh, it's, uh, it's been agood transition.
Leslie (13:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So thinking back to your career,your professional career mm-hmm.
And, and maybe just lookingacross it through the history of
it, through the, the tenure ofit, how did you see this topic
of purpose show up in theworkforce?
Jim (13:59):
Um, I would say that, uh, you know.
I probably always knew it wasthere.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, but I really didn't connectthe dots to it.
And it wasn't until, um, 2017when I really started thinking
about the purpose.
(14:19):
So I, I, I rolled into thepresident's role in, uh, June of
16 and, and I was about 15months in, and, and I knew I
wanted to, to take the.
The team through a, through aprocess and, um, because I
always felt like this, thisinside of me was telling me that
(14:42):
I know why I am here.
Mm-hmm.
Because I, I, I work in anorganization that has 12,000
used car dealers, and they'reall small businesses.
Mm-hmm.
So I, I get that.
This is something that attractsme.
I mean, that, that I can helpthese, these women and men who
are.
Putting their, their life on theline every single day to just
(15:05):
have their own business and havetheir own say in their world.
Um, and so I wanted others totry to figure out what, what is
it that means something to you?
And so I sat down with, with,with a good friend who was
working for, uh, the, the parentcompany where I worked Car
Global at that time.
Uh, and someone that you knowquite well, Josh Plaskoff.
(15:27):
Mm-hmm.
And Josh and I started talkingabout it and, and.
And, and I told Josh that I'dlike to take people through a
discussion of why we exist.
And so he and I put together abunch of stuff and, and we
rolled some things out inJanuary of 18 and we were able
to take our, uh, entire company,which was roughly 600 people
(15:50):
through a process.
I told them it was important tome to have everyone involved,
and I understand that we allcan't gather and sit in a room
for a few weeks and do this.
There are different aspects ofthis process that can involve
every single person in thecompany.
Right.
And I said, I think it'll bemore meaningful, uh, if everyone
feels like they have a voice.
Mm-hmm.
(16:10):
And, uh, and that's what we did.
You know, we, we used a, aconference that we do every year
in January as the kickoff forit, where I had about 200 people
and we got them to roll up theirsleeves as part of, uh, their,
their time there to, to come upwith words and phrases that.
Meant something to them aboutAFC.
(16:32):
Mm-hmm.
And we used all of their wordsin these phrases to be the
process to start writing purposestatements.
And we, at the end of the day,we had a small team.
They took all that stuff that wehad gathered, and uh, they came
up with five statements that alllooked and feel the same.
And we pushed it out to everyonein the organization saying, you
(16:53):
get a vote.
Which one, which one resonateswith you?
And then I even asked everyone.
Um, if you do so, put in whyyou, why you selected the one
you did, why, why did it speakto you?
Right?
And then I even said, you know,if you're not really good with
words, snap a quick video onyour iPhone and send it to me.
And, uh, at the end of the day,we had a clear winner.
(17:15):
Um, I got 32%, which may soundkinda light, but the second
place came in with like 24.
So be clear, about 115 peopleprovided.
Comments, which I thought wasfairly well, about 25%, 25
people sent videos in.
And, um, so we had a winner,which you think like, yay, we're
(17:37):
done.
Yeah, we have a winner.
Uh, I called Josh to my office,uh, and, and, uh, in an act of
vulnerability, I told Josh, uh,I said, I got a problem.
I said, uh, I told everyone inthe company that.
The one you selected is the onewe're going with.
(17:58):
He said, uh, I can't do it.
I can't support the one everyonewants.
Oh.
And Josh was like, whoa, Jim,that's can't do that.
And I go like, I go, can youhear me out?
And he goes like, oh, okay.
I said, the first thing is theone that won, got 32% of the
vote.
He said, yep.
(18:19):
I said, that means 68% of thepeople wanted something else.
He's like, Jim, it's still won.
That's just the way it is.
And I'm like, all right.
I said, but the second one,Josh, you're not gonna have an
easy time talking me down from,and I said, uh, I read through
all these comments and I watchedall these videos, and, uh, I'd
(18:39):
see I voted for this one becauseof X, or I voted for this one,
but I wish it would've talkedabout X.
Mm-hmm.
And then I'm watching thisvideo.
It's a young lady from ourCincinnati office, and she said,
I voted for blah, blah, blah,blah in our community.
(19:02):
And the one that she hadmentioned didn't have the word
community in it.
And I started looking and Inoticed that only one of the
five had the word communities init, and it's the one that won.
But there were people that votedfor all this, but they were
like, I want communities.
And I realized our goal.
Was to come up with fivestatements that felt the same.
(19:22):
And we left out a criticalcomponent, which was
communities.
'cause communities is a veryfamily feeling.
Mm-hmm.
Word.
And it's important to everyone.
And I said, that's why I can'tdo it, Josh.
And he said, uh, you do exactlywhat you did with me, with all
of them and will understand.
And that's what I did.
I fell in the proverbial swordand I said, this is, I can't do
(19:44):
it.
This, this is why.
So what I'd like to do is I'dlike to pull together a small
group of your peers and havethem take all five and make it
into one.
Uh, and uh, I had phone calls, Ihad texts, I had emails, people
dropping by saying, thank you.
Thank you for listening, andthank you for allowing all of
(20:06):
our voices to be heard.
Right?
So, uh, you know, uh, that's.
The process that I used to buildthis.
And then it got rounded out by,uh, a group they called
themselves the culturecollective, led by a guy by the
name of Rob Pat Chadley.
And uh, and they came up withnot only the, uh, the final
product, which is we fuel theentrepreneurial dream in our
(20:26):
community, but they came up withthe four core values, which are
elevating relationships, beingpowered by passion, being vision
driven, and above all beingdedicated to you.
Mm-hmm.
Those things are foreverembedded in my brain.
Yeah.
I can't ever get rid of'em.
Um, but that purpose process, alot of, a lot of times people
tend to take things like purposeor values, um, their culture.
(20:52):
Mm-hmm.
It's like checking the boxexercises.
Mm-hmm.
And these things are notchecking the box, exercise.
These things have a life oftheir own and they continue to
be nurtured all the time.
And so I knew that.
That process of identifying itwas just one thing.
We don't, don't slam'em up onthe wall or give everyone a
(21:12):
little laminated card.
Right.
So they can put on their deskand, and, and it's always in
front of them.
You have to be very, very, Ihate to use this word purposeful
mm-hmm.
About getting the purpose outthere and making sure that
everyone not only sees it everyday, they, they live it every
day.
Mm-hmm.
And the only way they can liveit every day is you keep talking
about it.
As my good friend and old boss,Don Gottwald once said.
(21:37):
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Okay.
And that's what it is.
It is a lather, rinse, repeatexercise.
It never ends.
It just keeps going and goingand going like that little
energizer bunny, and it justgoes and goes and goes.
And, uh, that's the job, uh, ofbringing a purpose to life
mm-hmm.
Is, is never stopping.
Leslie (21:56):
Nice.
So, um, what I hear there is, atsome point in your career, you.
You were determined to reallylead with purpose.
Oh, yes.
And you had the opportunity todo that.
Yes.
And it was important, uh, tohear from everyone and not just
(22:19):
like re um, vote, but reallyhear yes and listen and be
thoughtful and intentionalbecause, uh, it was a
responsibility, a ha, a bigresponsibility.
Yeah.
That you carried.
Jim (22:34):
Yeah.
And, um, you know, andselfishly, you know, I, I, I
knew this was gonna be a goodexercise.
Mm-hmm.
Um, especially for my seniorteam, I really felt that they
would get a lot out of it.
I mean, they're still carryingthat same message today without
me being there.
(22:54):
Right.
Which, which tells me that itmade an impact on them.
Which, which is, which is great.
Uh, but I think it made a bigimpact on.
On, on a lot of people.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, um, the crazything is, um, sometimes when you
go through a process like this,um, even some challenging things
(23:17):
can come out of it and, uh, youknow, because there's gonna be
people that are naysayers,right.
That it, it's not that importantto them.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, then it becomes areally, really difficult thing
when you're a manager.
Or even a leader in theorganization, um, to try to
figure out, well then if we'vespent the time to identify who
(23:39):
we are and we're using purposein all of our decision making
mm-hmm.
We always shine that light on,is this who we are?
It becomes a lot easier to sayyes or no to something.
When you think about does thisrepresent who we are?
Right.
If it doesn't, then why are wetalking about it?
Leslie (23:56):
Yeah.
Jim (23:56):
Why are we wasting our time on it?
Why is that part of ourstrategy?
Um.
But if people don't want toalign with who we are to steal a
line from Jim Collins, theyprobably don't have a seat on
the bus.
Mm-hmm.
And you gotta start making somedifficult decisions.
(24:16):
Um, and, and some people havechallenge doing that.
Um, there are, there are peopleout there that, that we could
probably ask to.
To to step aside because maybethey're not performing or doing
things like that, but the onesthat are really scary are, are
(24:37):
the ones that are performing.
Yeah.
They're the ones that, uh, read.
Ha has Hastings, CEO, founderof, uh, Netflix calls the
Brilliant Jerks.
And the brilliant jerks are theones who they, they hit their
target every year.
In fact, they blow past it everyyear.
(24:59):
They're the, they're the personyou can't afford to lose.
But at the same time, they'rethe person that will run over
their teammate whenever theycan.
They will kick and scream andsteal from others.
They'll do whatever it takes tohit their numbers and to be at
(25:20):
the top of the game.
Right?
And then people think, I can'tafford to lose them.
'cause look what they do everysingle year and.
They don't think about themorale that's being just
trashed.
They, they, they don't think of,uh, the, the other people that
they're starting to lose becausethey don't like working with
this individual anymore.
They can't stand it.
(25:41):
They're very toxic.
Uh, so that can be a verydetrimental impact of, of, of
having a purposes if, if youdon't really act honestly
towards your purpose, right?
Because there's, there's falloutfrom all this.
'cause there are some people.
That just leave me alone.
Let me do my thing.
Uh, and uh, uh, you do yourlittle purpose thing all day
(26:04):
long at school.
But, uh, I think sometimes yougotta figure out are, are those
the people you want in yourorganization or not?
Right.
If you really, truly do believenot only your purpose, but your,
your values, and if they don'tadhere to them, they really
shouldn't be there.
Right?
Yeah.
So it depends A challengingaspect of Right.
Having a purpose.
Leslie (26:24):
Yeah.
Well, and what I was thinkingabout as you were talking is the
difference between individualpurpose and shared purpose.
You know?
And it is, um, it's, it is onething to just have a purpose and
put it up on the wall, but it'sanother thing to live it out.
(26:44):
And, and when you're doing thatamongst other people towards a
shared purpose, it, there's aresponsibility of.
Um, keeping people honest to it.
Right.
And, and making the difficultdecisions.
Yeah.
Jim (27:01):
And, and it's important even for, uh, you know, I hate
to like, to use the word the,the staff kind of level people
to hold the managers responsibleas well.
Right.
'cause if they're not living itout, that's a problem.
Right.
Um, you, you mentioned, youknow, shared company purpose
versus individual purpose.
(27:23):
Mm-hmm.
I think that to, to me that'sprobably one of the biggest
reasons why you need to haveyour purpose, uh, alive and
kicking, so to speak.
Uh, and you need to identify it,uh, and live it because more and
more people want to know that,am I joining an organization
(27:43):
that actually.
Feels good with me personallymm-hmm.
That I can, I can support thator do I connect with it
perfectly.
Mm-hmm.
Which even makes it even abetter thing.
I think if you have the, do theright thing with, with your
purpose, it can be a great wayin, uh, you know, uh, acquiring
new talent in the organizationmm-hmm.
As well as retaining yourexisting talent.
(28:06):
Um, but, uh, I, I often feltlike.
In the last, call it seven yearsto eight years, that when I
would interview people, and itwasn't often that I was
interviewing someone a littlebit lower, but occasionally I
got to, to, to go down a littlebit lower.
You know, you always think abouta, a as a manager of people
that, that you're the one that'sin charge of that interview.
(28:30):
And it was slowly kinda to kindof, to flip a little bit.
And that is the person who wasinter being interviewed.
They were trying to figure out,is this the place where I wanna
spend Right.
40% of my waking hours eachweek.
Mm-hmm.
Is this where I want to investmy time and my energy?
And I could start to sense that,that I was being interviewed.
(28:52):
Okay.
And I liked that.
I liked, and so that even helpedit, it even made the process of
identifying that purpose evenmore easy because Right.
That became, became one of thethings that I talked about in
the interviews was this is whowe are.
Mm-hmm.
These are the values that, that,that we hold dear to our heart.
How does that sound to you?
Yeah.
You know, and, and basically,you know, uh, getting people to
(29:16):
get the light bulb going off,this is a place I want to be, I
wanna be a part of this.
Right.
And, uh, you know, when you,when you have that strong
purpose and, and those corevalues and, and people can see
that you are.
Honest.
Mm-hmm.
And you're living them out.
Um, it goes a long way in, in,in, in that hiring process.
Leslie (29:38):
You talked about, um, once you had your purpose and
the values, that it was morethan just putting them on the
wall and you said it's aboutcommunicating them, like
constant communication.
What were some other ways, uh,maybe with the executive team?
Let's start there.
What were some other ways whereyou made purpose a part of the,
(30:02):
the rituals and routines ofbusiness?
Jim (30:06):
Well, uh, I'll tell you, um, one of the simplest ways
that I did it, which is gonnasound kind of maybe a little
crazy, um, you know, we'd have,you know, meeting agendas,
Leslie (30:19):
Uhhuh.
Okay.
Jim (30:20):
And, and right across the bottom of the agendas was the
purpose statement and the fourvalues.
'cause we had the, the valueswere, uh, they were graphical.
Okay.
Okay.
So they were like littlepictures.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and, um, so it was always infront of people.
Yeah.
When you started, if you had apresentation, the, the very
first slide had the purposestatement.
(30:42):
Mm-hmm.
It, it was, I mean, you just,you always just keep it in front
of people.
I, I did an email.
52 times a year called lastweek, and it was right on there.
Okay.
It was just right on there.
Um, and, uh, you know, you,you're always calling it out.
Yeah.
(31:02):
I hate to say, I'm not tryingto, you know, dumbify it or
anything like that, but itreally was just keep it front
and center.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, and then youcatch yourself.
Using the words.
You know, I, I love it when Iwould go out and visit people
and they would say, well, Sally,over here, she's just power with
passion.
And I'm like, oh gosh, that'sjust going straight to my heart.
(31:23):
I'm going like, you know, theyweren't being prompted to say
that.
They just were saying it.
Right.
And that is because I think itwas not ingrained in people, but
they always saw it and then theystarted believing it.
Mm-hmm.
Which is, you know, which it wasalways there.
Like I told them, I said, Ididn't.
You know, I, I didn't come upwith this, this purpose.
(31:46):
I didn't come up with thesevalues.
You all always had'em there,right?
I just shined the light on it.
Mm-hmm.
I just brought it to the surfacefor you.
This, this is who you are.
Right.
Because this, this is what yousay every single day.
Um, and, and our customers, uh,can sense that as well.
Leslie (32:02):
Yeah.
Well, it's interesting that yousay that because in season one.
Um, I was talking with peoplethat had clarity in their
purpose and they were living itout every day.
And one of the things that Ilearned is that understanding
our purpose is a process ofgoing within.
(32:23):
Mm-hmm.
Like it's an intentionalprocess.
It's not something that justlike we slam into, we Right.
We do that throughintrospection, through asking
questions.
And it sounds like that'sexactly what you did for Shared
purpose, is you took the time tosay, we're gonna all get
together and we're going to takea moment and think about our
(32:45):
purpose and, and it's alreadyhere within us, but we're gonna
be able to articulate it.
Right.
And then in terms of theroutines and rituals, keeping it
in front of people.
Um, it does, it starts to makeit woven into the fabric when
you talk about it, when Iimagine you're telling stories
(33:08):
of people living in purpose orhearing stories, it sounds like.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jim (33:14):
Yeah.
And, and so, um, one of thethings that, that I did about
two years after all of that hadkind of been identified.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I sat down with a, a ladywho worked with me, Devra
Callahan, and, and we, she was,um, VP of marketing and, and I
(33:35):
told her, I said, you know,there's one thing that that does
bug me about our values is that,um, we talk about'em a lot,
which is great.
And I, and I, and I see peoplethat, um, they shake their head,
yeah, yeah, that's who we are,you know, and, and sometimes
they kind of like, you know,kind of do that.
And I'm going, like I said.
(33:56):
Let's try to think about how doyou see our, our values in
action.
So, and that's what we did waswe came up with, there's about
five to six sentences that, thatwe eventually embedded below it
to kind of like, so when someonesays, what does power by passion
mean now?
Now they actually have, youknow, some examples of what that
(34:19):
looks like in action.
A lot of that's the customerexperience.
Yeah.
Side of it.
Or even the people experienceside.
Um, but I, I thought it wasimportant that we, we kind of
gave them some, some thoughts,Uhhuh, because sometimes they
would, they go, gosh, I justdon't see that in action.
Then when you show that, they golike, okay, now I get it.
Yes.
Okay.
(34:39):
Now I am powered by passion.
Right?
Yeah.
I, yeah, I get it.
I get vision driven.
I, I get it.
Right.
I am.
So, I, I think it was really,you know, helpful, uh, to, to,
to do that and give them alittle bit more insight of.
Of how they're living them out,even when they can't even sense
that they're living it out.
Right.
And it's like, no, you are.
Leslie (34:58):
Yeah you are.
Jim (34:59):
You do this, you do that.
Look at that.
And they're like, oh
Leslie (35:02):
yeah, yeah, I do do that.
And that think it creates alittle
Jim (35:03):
bit more excitement about it.
Absolutely.
A purpose.
You know, another thing thatpurpose, a really well written
purpose statement could, can be,is a very inspirational mm-hmm.
Uh, wording.
Uh, creates motivation and, and,uh, it's not that you're,
you're, you're, you're, you'retrying to be deceitful or
(35:24):
anything like that, but, uh,you're saying it in a way that
it, you should, you should feelan immense pride in who you are.
Right.
This is who we are.
Right.
And be prideful of that.
That's okay.
And use it for your source ofinspiration.
Mm-hmm.
If you need to, like, they do itin Notre Dame football, if you
have to go up and, you know,slap the, whatever, uhhuh,
whatever the little sign is,they have believer.
(35:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I'm, I'm, I'm not a Notre Dame.
I'm not a gold.
I'm not sure if that's it, butI'm,
Leslie (35:50):
but yeah.
But yeah,
Jim (35:52):
this is, it's the same concept.
If you need to do that, then dothat.
Right.
Leslie (35:56):
You know?
Yeah.
Do you, speaking of, I love thevalues in action.
Um, because I do think sometimespeople need help making that
bridge, you know, the connectionto purpose and values.
Do, did you do any type of, um,did you weave that into
performance reviews orself-evaluations or,
Jim (36:18):
yeah, so we, we, we, they started weaving in the values
into the interview process.
Okay.
So there would be.
Questions that were kinda likefocused on being powered by
passion or elevatingrelationships.
So those, and they would even, Ithink they would even talk like,
you know, one of our values isthis and how do you go about,
(36:39):
you know, doing this
Leslie (36:40):
uhhuh.
Jim (36:40):
Um, we, we didn't get it all the way we interwoven into
the, uh, the review process.
But the review process wasactually, uh, starting to
change, which was kind of cool.
So, you know, went from that,um.
One pager.
You do it in February, and thenyou talk about here's the stuff
(37:03):
you did really well, and here'sthe stuff that we, you can do
better.
You remember, you rememberLeslie back in March and I was
like, come on, gimme a break.
You know?
And I, I hated reviews.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, I just, because I'mlike.
Reviews should be immediatefeedback.
Leslie (37:19):
Right.
Jim (37:20):
Okay.
That should happen.
A review, a re a review couldhappen every week.
Leslie (37:23):
Right.
Exactly.
Jim (37:24):
You know, and there's no reason to call out stuff.
But then we, we got to the pointat the, when I left, we were
down to, we did four check-ins.
Okay.
'cause I was a big fan ofsomething I, I called quarterly
check-ins.
Mm-hmm.
And, and I did it with about 28people.
And it was just, I wanted to sitdown for 45 minutes.
(37:44):
You can use up the entire 45minutes.
I just wanna know three things.
What's going well?
What's not going so well, andhow can I help?
You know?
And, uh, you know, some peoplemay wonder why did I, why, why
did I do it?
Uh, you know, I wanted to knowwhat you, Leslie, thought you
(38:05):
were, was going well, right?
Because I, there were timeswhere I'd go like, you're right.
That was incredible.
Great job.
Or I would go.
Why do you think that's going?
So well help, help me tounderstand that.
Or this didn't go well, right?
And I'm like, why do you thinkthat didn't go well?
I mean, you know, I wantedpeople to understand that, that
(38:28):
when we make mistakes or when wefail, as long as we're learning
from it, I'm like, don't worryabout it.
Right?
But they would think like, it'sthe end of the world.
I made a mistake up all'em.
Like, did you learn something?
Oh God, I'm never doing that.
I'm like.
Amen.
Right.
That's, that's all that neededto happen out of it.
So, um, uh, that check-inprocess, uh, that I had, I think
(38:53):
maybe had some influence onothers and, and how we started
kind of maybe changing otherstuff with the organization.
Leslie (38:59):
Yeah.
Hopefully from a spective.
Yeah, that's great.
Jim (39:02):
Because I used, I, I used them ad nauseum.
I, I, I loved him.
I looked forward to my, myquarterly checkups, Uhhuh.
Leslie (39:08):
Yeah.
That's awesome.
It took a lot of time, but, but,but a lot.
Yeah.
But it also, I imagine theperson that you're meeting with
felt valued and importantbecause you're asking and and
you're asking how you can helpthem too.
'cause you want them to besuccessful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you went through this processof discovering purpose, um,
(39:30):
working to weave it into thefabric of the business.
What changed?
After
Jim (39:38):
what changed?
Leslie (39:39):
Yeah.
What were the outcomes of it orOh, the outcomes?
Jim (39:42):
Well, uh, outside of, you know, I, I think, uh, more
cohesiveness.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I, uh, I can tell you, uh,I, I was having a conversation
with, uh, some people at, uh,central Indiana, better Business
Bureau Uhhuh, that there,
Leslie (39:59):
you know, Kathy?
Yeah.
Kathy was episode one.
Jim (40:01):
Yeah.
So, so I was talking with themand, and I even.
Talking about purpose and, and Igo, you know, you might not buy
into this purpose thing.
Uh, so I get it.
I'm a finance guy, I'm a numbersguy.
You know, I, I, intangibles arereally kind of cool, but I kind
of get stuck on the tangibles.
What did it do?
(40:22):
And, and I, and you know, I canhonestly tell you that where we
were as, as a business in 2016,mm-hmm.
Started rising in 2018.
Mm.
And we went off and, and we hitrecord earnings in 22.
Uh, but all of our, our metricsthat were important were all
(40:44):
increasing, uh, minus the, thepandemic, which kind of course
kind of threw everyone for over.
Yeah.
But, and it's growing backagain.
But, uh, I can honestly tell youthat I, I think the reason
behind that type of growth thatwe had.
That we had an excited workforceand, uh, they were very prideful
(41:04):
and, and their goal was always,how can I make my customer
extremely happy?
Yeah.
Because I always told everyone,listen, at the end of the day,
if we can just, if we can justnail the customer experience and
we can have really happycustomers, it's hard to not win.
Right?
I mean, it, it's just reallyhard to not win.
(41:26):
When you're doing all that stuffthe right way and, uh, and,
Leslie (41:30):
and, uh, show.
Well, and the, the purpose wasall about fueling the
entrepreneurial spirit, whichwas the customer Oh, as the
entrepreneur.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jim (41:42):
We, we, you know, there was, there was nothing better
than watching small businessevolve over time.
Mm.
You know, I mean.
Um, and, and I've got, I, I havelike the outliers, if you wanna
call'em the outliers.
I can still rem Remember someonewho started with about a$75,000
line of credit with us, and thenwhen they left us, they had
(42:04):
about 16 million.
Wow.
Uh, and another guy that wasprobably, he, he started a
little bit before I did.
So when I knew him, he was about150 and he was in the mid
twenties, 20 million range.
Both of them left to, to, to goto more.
What I think of bankingrelationships,
Leslie (42:21):
Uhhuh,
Jim (42:22):
um, which is what I always envisioned, was, uh, we're there
to help these small businesses,but at some point they're gonna
outgrow us Uhhuh, and that'sokay.
Right?
That's okay.
Yeah.
Let's go.
Let's, that's good.
Yeah.
Let's just keep finding more andmore people like that to just
kind of keep blossoming andgrowing.
Mm-hmm.
And if, if they leave us,they're not leaving us, they're
just transitioning onto anotherplace.
(42:42):
Right.
They're never gonna leave us.
Leslie (42:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yes.
Jim (42:47):
cause a lot of them.
Their, their parting gift to uswas, I'll make sure that if
anyone comes up to me to say,you know, uh, I'm thinking about
starting out the business.
Exactly.
You need to talk to a FC, right?
Yeah.
Leslie (42:57):
Okay.
So you mentioned your numbersguide, tangible outcomes.
You saw it, but what was it?
It was 2016, I think that yousaid when you, what was it?
And before that.
It sounded like purpose didn't,it was probably there in your
career, but it, it wasn't likea, a wouldn't call out
(43:20):
spotlight.
Yes.
Yeah.
It
Jim (43:21):
really wasn't.
I mean, it, uh, you know, itwas, it was always there.
We just didn't, uh, call out thepurpose statement.
Yeah.
There was a mission statement.
Okay.
But a mission statement to meis, is very much a, a, a.
Document that illustrates what,what we do uhhuh.
(43:45):
And it's really, I think of itas a mission statement, is more
short term in nature.
Okay, so what are we gonna dothis year?
Right?
This is how we make our money.
This, this, this is, this iswhere we're going to serve our
customers, et cetera.
And the vision statement is thataspirational thing, that this is
where we, we want to get to.
Mm-hmm.
We wanna get to this place.
You need both a mission and avision, but.
(44:07):
I think a purpose statement iswhat grounds both a mission and
a vision statement.
Mm-hmm.
Because if my purpose statementand my mission statement don't
align one of'em wrong.
Right.
Okay.
Yeah.
One of'em wrong.
Same thing with my purpose andmy vision.
If they don't align, one ofthem's wrong.
Mm-hmm.
I'm not saying it's the purposeis is right and the other's
(44:28):
wrong.
I'm just one of'em is wrong.
Right.
Because it's very easy to say,this is our purpose.
Well.
What's going on?
It doesn't really feel likethat's your purpose.
Right.
You might need to take anothershot at it, and that's okay.
Leslie (44:41):
Yeah.
Or
Jim (44:42):
sometimes purposes they evolve.
Leslie (44:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jim (44:45):
But to just stay on top of it.
Leslie (44:46):
So what was it that happened in 2016 or before where
you're like, this is missing,or,
Jim (44:53):
well, 2016.
I got to make the decisions.
Leslie (44:58):
Okay.
You were put in the position.
So I
Jim (45:00):
was, I was, the position was there and, and I really felt
like, like I said before,selfishly, I was like, I think
we need this Uhhuh.
I, you know, and I, I need thisuhhuh, I, I need, I need people
to understand that.
This is what I value.
(45:20):
Mm-hmm.
In, in, in this, this job that Ihave, in this organization that
I work for.
You know, I, I want everyone toknow that I'm here because, um,
I wanna help these women and menhave a shot, right.
I wanna be a part of theirtrajectory to their successful
mm-hmm.
(45:41):
Path.
And I want people to know that,but I also wanted them to, to
know.
How would you categorize whowe're, so that, for me was
extremely important.
And I was like, you know, I canmake the choice.
And we're, we're doing it.
Darn it.
Yeah.
We're gonna do it.
We're we're, we're gonna do it.
And some people may think I'mcrazy, but I think it's the
(46:01):
right thing to do.
And I've, I've read enough stuffto, to know that that purpose is
extremely important.
Yeah.
And I'm like, you know, it'sgonna be hard for someone to
say, this is a not a, not a, nota good use of time.
Obviously Josh, Josh was allover it.
Uhhuh, I mean, he loved it and,and uh, and then others stepped
up and yeah, they could reallysense that it was important as
(46:21):
well.
Leslie (46:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jim (46:22):
And then that evolved into something I, I think I shared
with you and others within theconscious capitalist
organization that I called theTennis Ball
Leslie (46:30):
Uhhuh.
Jim (46:31):
And, and that was really what is your personal purpose.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, you know, because thattennis ball, uh, uh, I think it
was Drew Houston.
From, uh, a company calledDropbox was given the
commencement address and he wastalking about, um, with those
seniors that were getting readyto graduate, that if he had a
(46:51):
cheat sheet when he graduated,it would've been the greatest
thing in the world, what toexpect when I enter the real
world.
And he's like, I'm gonna give itto you.
And he talked about it's onlygot three things in a tennis
ball, a circle, the number30,000.
And uh, and I'll go backwardsin, uh, a little bit.
And, uh, the circle was allabout.
Surround yourself by, by a fourto five people that can really
(47:17):
bring the best out of you.
Mm-hmm.
That is something you need.
Make sure you're not aroundpeople that don't pull the best
out of you.
Yeah.
So, surround yourself withreally smart people.
We only have about 30,000 daysin our lives, which is about 80,
82 years of age.
So time is of the essence.
Don't waste your time, spend itwisely.
(47:38):
And the tennis ball.
He talked about the dog that hehad when he was a kid, and the
dog could be just lounging onthe couch and he could pull that
tennis ball out.
That dog would just come tolife.
Uh, and he would throw the balland the dog would just chase it,
chase and chase it.
You know, that tennis ball wassomething to that dog and he's
(47:59):
like, find something that reallymeans something to you.
Find a problem that you'rereally passionate about solving.
Or find something that justbrings you excitement and do it.
Yeah, do it.
Make sure you're doing somethingthat brings you life and that's
(48:20):
that's your purpose.
Yeah.
So I always ask people what getsyou outta bed each day?
What, what's, what's that tennisball that makes you decide to
want to jump in the shower atsix in the morning?
Mm-hmm.
Shower, shave.
Head off to the office or jumpon a plane.
Right.
Or get in your car and go visitco.
Why do you want to do that?
Yeah.
And, and I, I wanted to knowwhat was your purpose, right?
(48:43):
Yeah.
That was my way of asking foryour personal purpose.
Right?
And then it was about, okay, ifthat's your personal purpose,
think about our purpose.
Uhhuh, kinda start connectingthe dots a little bit.
Leslie (48:54):
Yeah.
Love that.
I love the connection topersonal purpose in the
workplace.
Why am I getting up?
And doing this job right.
How can I get energy out of it?
How can I get excitement fromit?
Jim (49:07):
Well, you know, um, as I was getting ready for my, my
talk with, uh, Kathy's crew, um,I had been looking at, you know,
stuff about why is a purposeimportant.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, uh, I wasthinking about the, the people
side.
Hiring side.
(49:27):
And as I'm looking through abunch of stuff, like on the
internet, you know, I'm kind oflooking, uh, I kind of started
to see a theme building.
And this is more of like, youthink about like the millennials
and, and, and Gen Z, or I mean,so these are the pe these are
the people that are kind of likemm-hmm.
Really getting active in theworkforce.
And there are, they're wepredominantly five things that
(49:48):
just kept showing up that werereally, extremely important to
them from a job perspective.
Mm-hmm.
And the first one.
It's like the no-brainer.
You know, they wanna be paidwell, right?
They wanna be adequatelycompensated because they all
have needs and wants.
Mm-hmm.
And so that, you know, thatneeds to happen.
The second thing is, uh, and,and it's obvious from the
(50:11):
pandemic, they want flexibility.
Right.
You know, they, they, they, theywant to know that if I'm gonna
come in the office, it makessense.
Otherwise, why am I commuting?
Two hours a day.
Right.
Et cetera.
Or I've got kids.
Mm-hmm.
How can I, how can I maintainthat balance?
So they want that flexibility.
They also want recognition.
Mm-hmm.
You know, they want to know thatwhen I'm doing a good job.
(50:34):
Okay.
At the same time, I think kindof embedded in recognition is
they want feedback.
Yeah.
Constructive feedback, becausethey wanna know what, what could
I do better?
Right.
Because the fourth thing is.
I wanna do something differentin two years.
So they want career growth.
Right.
But the fifth one is they wantto know that this is a
(50:56):
meaningful job.
Yeah.
I'm doing this more than just tomake a buck for you.
Right.
I'm not doing this just to makeyou hit your bonus, et cetera,
et cetera.
Mm-hmm.
I wanna know what I'm doing.
Working for this organization ismeaningful work and.
Has some higher purpose to it.
Mm-hmm.
And I tell you, uh, if peopledon't believe that having a
(51:20):
purpose is a wise thing, themore and more you start
interviewing younger people intheir twenties, people coming
outta college, you're gonna findout that they're gonna be
extremely selective and they'reeven willing probably at times,
to forego dollars to have aplace that really connects well
with them.
Mm-hmm.
They're willing to do that.
Leslie (51:41):
Yeah.
So
Jim (51:42):
it's extremely important.
Leslie (51:43):
Yes.
Yeah.
Thanks for sharing those.
Jim (51:46):
Yeah.
Leslie (51:47):
Uh, any advice for, let's think of leaders out there
who are, um, wanting to, uh,create cohesion in their
workforce.
Any advice for them?
Well, I
Jim (51:59):
mean, I, I, I think it could start with like a, like a
purpose process.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, I think that connectspeople, but if you're going to
do it.
You know, be ready.
It doesn't end.
Yeah.
It just keeps going.
And, and, and, and you, you haveto be serious about it.
Yeah.
You know, because if you're notserious about it, people will
see through it.
Mm-hmm.
(52:19):
And that there's more damagethat can come from that than not
even having a purpose.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, like, if you're not gonna beserious about it, I would say
don't do it.
Yeah.
Because you, you could create alot more problems for yourself.
Yeah.
So I think that's extremelyimportant.
And then, um, you know, listento people.
I think it's probably the bigthing.
Yeah.
Just listening to people, youknow, getting the temperature
(52:41):
from them, you know, um, stufflike that.
Yeah.
Leslie (52:45):
Anything for a manager that's not in that leadership
position?
Uh, listening obviously appliesto that person.
Jim (52:52):
Yeah, I, I would say, um, uh, from a manager perspective,
um, make sure that, that, thatyou're, uh.
You know, as, as tight with thepurpose as, as you can be as
well.
And, and that you're living outthose values because the last
thing you want to do is you, youwant to, you know, criticize
(53:15):
someone else when you know youneed to look in the mirror a
little bit.
Yeah.
So it does get back to that.
They need to live it as well.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I mean, otherwise it's notgonna be seen as, uh, you know,
uh, you know, authentic.
Leslie (53:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anything else left unsaid on thetopic of purpose in the
workplace?
Jim (53:32):
I, um.
I'm sure there's all kinds ofstuff that could be said.
We could go on for hours.
I know.
Yeah, prob probably, probably.
I've said enough.
Leslie (53:41):
I appreciate you sharing your story and living out
purpose every day in your life,whether it's in the workforce or
now in retirement through thethree Cs, so thank you.
Jim (53:53):
Yeah.
Second half.
Leslie (53:55):
Second half that, right?
Not that old.
Yes.
And in your second half?
That's second half.
Yeah.
Appreciate it,
Jim (54:00):
Leslie.
It was always great talking withyou.
Leslie (54:02):
Thank you.
Talking with Jim reminded methat purpose in business isn't
just about having a missionstatement.
It's about taking responsibilityfor helping others find meaning
in what they do.
Jim didn't stop at creating agood work environment.
He went deeper.
(54:23):
He made a long-term commitment,not to a project, but to the
people and to the purpose thatwould keep the business alive,
and maybe most importantly, hewas honest about the effort that
it takes.
Purpose isn't always easy, andit's not something that you just
(54:44):
do and let it sit.
It requires ongoing effort andan ongoing commitment.
Jim, thank you for leading withpurpose, and thanks to all of
you for listening in.
I hope this episode inspires youto show up fully committed to
your work, to your people, andto the purpose that fuels it
(55:07):
all.
Welcome to Purpose Project.
I'm your host, Leslie Pagel Inthis episode, I sit down with
Jim Money, a former President ofAutomotive Finance Corporation
or AFC.
Jim shares how he led apurpose-driven transformation
within the organization byhelping employees uncover their
(00:24):
why at work.
His story shows what's possiblewhen leadership goes beyond
strategy and takesresponsibility for cultivating
purpose.
Let's take a listen.
Jim, thank you for being an onpurpose project.
I'm looking forward to talkingabout how purpose shows up in
the workplace.
Jim (00:44):
Alright?
Yeah, you bet.
Great to be here.
Leslie (00:46):
Wonderful.
Before we dive in, tell us alittle bit about yourself, both
personally and professionally.
Jim (00:52):
Alright, so, uh, personally, um, I've uh, been
married for going on 34 yearsto, congratulations.
My best friend, uh, Laurie.
And we have a son who is, uh,25.
He's a Butler grad, so we'reboth IU grads.
So, but that was great.
Uh, I'm in, I love to cook.
My wife hates to cook so that itworks out really well, works
(01:13):
out.
Uh, and I actually found outthat on bad days at work, in, in
those days that, uh, you know,doing things that required a lot
of dicing really came in handy.
You know, you try to get rid ofsome of the frustrations, but
no.
I love to cook and, uh, I loveto walk.
I, I used to like to run, but myknees don't like that.
Uh, love music.
(01:34):
I would rather listen to musicall night than watching a TV
show.
Um, avid reader, um, and, uh,travel quite a bit.
Nice.
And actually, you know, thelast, this year and last year,
we've traveled quite a bitbecause on April the first, I.
Retired, or as I like to callit, I entered my second half
(01:55):
because retirement sounds soold.
Um, but, uh, you know, I spent25 years with a company called
Automotive Finance Corporation.
Mm-hmm.
Um, started out as their, uh,controller, worked my way up to
be the, uh, CFO of theorganization, and then spent the
last eight years as thepresident.
A FC is a part of anorganization called Open Lane,
(02:18):
which is a publicly heldcompany.
So I've been in that space forthe last 25 years.
And then before that I did alittle tour duty.
It's gonna sound crazy in thetoying game business.
Oh, really?
CFO there, uh, did a little timein the transportation business
up north of West Lafayette.
Spent some time at Anthem,locally and, and a little time
(02:39):
in, uh.
The, uh, public accountingspace.
Yeah.
So, uh, so that's me, uh, youknow, personally and
professionally.
Yeah.
Leslie (02:48):
So I heard family.
Mm-hmm.
I heard a bit of curiosity andwonder and, um, kind of letting,
letting your mind wander throughwalking and through cooking and
Oh, yes.
And things traveling.
Then it sounds like most of yourcareer in the finance aspect
(03:11):
ending as kind of oversight forthe, for the entire business.
Jim (03:15):
Correct.
I, I, you know, I'm a beancounter by, uh, you know,
college as an accountant got myCPA, but I worked like heck to
try to stop doing accounting.
I got bored with it.
Okay.
But I, I liked the other side ofthe business world.
I, I liked.
I was really good with numbers.
Mm-hmm.
But I liked trying to figure outhow do we move the business
(03:38):
forward through all of thepeople in the organization.
Leslie (03:40):
Okay.
Jim (03:41):
That, that is, that's where I was working towards.
Right, right.
I was never a traditional CFO.
Yeah.
I was not the guy who lived inthe gap and the Fas b pronounce
my world.
I, I wasn't that tech technicalguy.
I was more of the guy thinkingabout the operations of the
business and the strategy andwhere we're going.
Uh, and obviously.
(04:01):
Uh, love doing things from aleadership perspective.
Leslie (04:04):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So that makes sense.
A natural progression to bepresident Yeah.
Of the organization.
Jim (04:12):
That was the goal.
Leslie (04:13):
Yeah.
Uh, before we dive into purposein the workplace, a question I
ask everyone is whether or notyou have a life's purpose.
Jim (04:23):
You know, I, I do.
And, and you know, and I'll tellyou that, uh, for a big chunk of
time, it really was.
Can, how can I help smallbusinesses be successful?
Mm-hmm.
And so thinking so it was veryprofessional.
Okay.
Yeah.
Very much my, and that was a bigpart of my life, uh, because
(04:44):
everything I've done, I'veeither been serving small
businesses or I've been in asmall business, so I even know
what it means to face thechallenges and the failures of,
of, of that side of the, theequation.
Being an entrepreneur.
So, um, and that's what my dadwas, so, and I worked with him,
so I got my teeth cut on at areal young age.
(05:06):
So I just was really in awe ofwhat these people did every
single day.
I mean, I think of entrepreneursas heroes,
Leslie (05:16):
Uhhuh,
Jim (05:16):
because they're willing to put everything on the line to
chase a dream mm-hmm.
Of their own.
And so my thought was, how can Ihelp them?
Through their quest and soeverything, and I didn't really
connect the dots until probably2017.
Okay.
That's when I started to connectthe dots as, as far as what was,
(05:38):
what was kind of going on, and,and, and it led me to understand
that that's, that's who I was.
Yeah.
Now I get to March of 23 and thebusiness world is starting to
probably take a toll on me, and,and I knew that I need to step
away.
I, I need, I need to get out andkind of reenergize.
(06:00):
Um, and then something happened.
I'm meeting with a financialadvisor and the world's worst
thing that they can say is, youknow, Jim, you could retire
anytime you want.
And so the light bulb went off.
Obviously my wife goes, oh, no.
You know, kind of one of thosemoments.
But, uh, you know, I told her Iwas ready.
And, and, and, and the time isright.
(06:22):
I had a great succession planalready in place, already had a
guy that was lined up and thankGod that that all came to
fruition.
And I, uh, I shifted and, and,and it was, I'm no longer that
person.
I'm now this person that therewere things that I've always
wanted to do that I've not beenable to do, and so.
(06:42):
I didn't do a real good job oftaking care of community
opportunities.
Okay.
I didn't do a good job of myconnections that I have with
people and, and I, because Ijust was always heads down and,
and, and I realized that Iprobably learned a thing or two
along the way.
And so this, this new purposethat evolved in March of 23 was
(07:07):
I want to serve what I call mythree Cs.
Okay.
Which are community connectionsand council.
And so, uh, I, I, I do a thingevery Friday with my wife, uh,
to serve at a local food pantry.
And there's some other stuffthat, that I've thinking about
trying to dip my toe into.
I've been minding myconnections, my relationships a
(07:28):
lot more than I ever have.
I'm actually building some newones, which is really making me
feel good, you know, as I'mmentoring kind of those twilight
years.
And then the last thing iscounseling.
And, uh, you know, the thingsthat I've learned throughout my
business life.
How can I share those withothers, whether they're in the
for-profit sector or thenon-profit sector?
(07:48):
Mm-hmm.
And, and I have a greatopportunity to do something with
the local foundation and there'ssome other stuff that's going on
there, so those Nice.
That's my time is gonna shiftinto, into doing more serving,
not necessarily entrepreneursnow, serving others within my
community
Leslie (08:04):
right.
Yeah.
So talk a little bit about, youmentioned March, 2023, you, you
had this realization, um, andnow you've identified these
three Cs.
How did that unfold?
Jim (08:22):
Uh, well.
You know, the, the whole processfor me was, uh, I, I, I kept it
internal for a little whilemm-hmm.
For probably about eight weeks.
And so it was March when I hadthe idea that I think the time
is right for me.
And it was early May when I satdown with my wife and I walked
(08:44):
her through it.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
And then it was July when Iwalked my boss.
Through it.
Yeah.
So I was giving, you know, him anine month heads up basically.
Um, and, uh, and through thatentire process as I'm going
along, I'm, I'm just nowrealizing that these were the
things I always wanted to doand, uh, and, and now I have
(09:08):
that time.
So that just became very naturalto me.
Right.
But I'm a very, um, uh, detailoriented kind of a guy.
You know, and then like I tellpeople, I'm a raging introvert.
A raging introvert who's verydetail oriented.
And, and so I thought throughthe entire stage and, and so I
(09:28):
already knew what was gonnahappen over the next few months.
A after that.
I mean, it was always me stayingahead of it.
And I've always been a perpetualplanner, uh, probably, you know,
not to the point where, where,where, where I, uh, cause harm
to some sort of a project.
But, but I like to understandwhere things are going and, and
(09:50):
even think about where I couldpivot if I have to pivot.
Mm-hmm.
And so, uh, I don't likesurprises Okay.
So much.
Mm-hmm.
Sometimes surprises are a goodthing, but most times surprises
can be very challenging.
And so if I can avoid achallenge like that, I, I'll, I
will do that.
So it was a, it was a wellthought out process.
Yeah.
It just continued to evolve andevolve and, uh, uh, the, the
(10:11):
three Cs, uh, uh, were, wereeasy to, to come up with.
And I even used the concept ofthe three C's when, when I was
trying to work people to comeback into the office.
And it wasn't that I wanted toget people back into the, to the
office from a, from, from a, awork perspective.
It was more of from a cultureperspective mm-hmm.
(10:33):
Of, you know, how do we getpeople two to three days back
in, uh, because I really felt,uh, and I use the three Cs at
that stage, that they weremissing out on collaboration.
They were missing out onsomething I called collisions.
And collisions were, you know,things where you were walking
down the hallway and you seeLeslie and you go, Hey, I've
(10:54):
been meaning to talk to youabout something.
Yeah.
You can't do that from home.
Right.
It doesn't happen realnaturally.
And then the biggie wascomradery.
You know, how do we get everyoneback together and to create
excitement And as leaders of thecompany, it was our
responsibility to figure out howdo we do that outside of just
saying, you have to do this.
Leslie (11:10):
Yeah.
Jim (11:10):
Because at the end of the day, it's so much better when.
The folks decide I want to behere.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I want to be here.
And, and that's, that's, uh, sothe three C's I had the three
C's of, of, of return to work,if you wanna call it that.
And it was easy for me to startthinking about this other stuff
and then, you know, it was justpercolating.
Yeah.
(11:31):
Yeah.
It was already probably pre 23even happening in my mind.
Okay.
I knew that.
Okay.
Yeah, I knew I'm getting closerand closer.
I wanted to work till I was 65.
Um.
I stopped at 62.
Leslie (11:44):
Yeah, that's good.
So yeah.
So were the three Cs.
Did you feel yourself movingtowards the three Cs?
Is that what was calling you?
Or did?
Was it more of like, I feel likemy time in the professional
world is coming to an end and asyou're starting to plan for
(12:07):
after that those came?
Jim (12:09):
Yeah, I mean, I was really, uh.
I was physically and, and kindof me mentally exhausted.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, and I knew that Ineed, I need to step aside.
I think for the, for the healthof the organization, I, I felt,
I really felt like it was, Ineeded it for me, but I thought
(12:30):
it was, it was time for, uh,someone else to be in there.
I knew I would've, I would be inroughly eight years.
And I was like, that's a prettygood run for basically like a
CEO type of an individual.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and, that was really thegestation of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, I was, I was ready to go andthen transit, you know, thinking
about the other stuff, you know,I already knew that there was
(12:50):
things like that, that I'd beable to, once I retired, I'd be
able to spend more time doingthis.
Right.
So I already, I was lookingforward to, yeah.
That change of, of pace, and Iwas really looking forward to
the connections.
Mm-hmm.
And that was the one that, uh,and shame on me.
You know, I, I didn't do a realgood job.
I, I was never a good networker.
Um, you know, I.
I was, I'm the guy who hangs outagainst the wall at the party,
(13:13):
nursing the drink, and then theextroverts come over and talk to
me.
You know?
'cause that's just, just, that'snot naturally, uh, how I do
things.
Although I talk with people andthey go like, how can that be?
I mean, I've seen you inpresentations.
I'm like, yeah, I could stand infront of two to 500 people and I
could talk, but I'm like, that'smy job.
Mm-hmm.
(13:33):
But in a personal setting,that's not my job.
But, uh, it's, uh, it's been agood transition.
Leslie (13:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So thinking back to your career,your professional career mm-hmm.
And, and maybe just lookingacross it through the history of
it, through the, the tenure ofit, how did you see this topic
of purpose show up in theworkforce?
Jim (13:59):
Um, I would say that, uh, you know.
I probably always knew it wasthere.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, but I really didn't connectthe dots to it.
And it wasn't until, um, 2017when I really started thinking
about the purpose.
(14:19):
So I, I, I rolled into thepresident's role in, uh, June of
16 and, and I was about 15months in, and, and I knew I
wanted to, to take the.
The team through a, through aprocess and, um, because I
always felt like this, thisinside of me was telling me that
(14:42):
I know why I am here.
Mm-hmm.
Because I, I, I work in anorganization that has 12,000
used car dealers, and they'reall small businesses.
Mm-hmm.
So I, I get that.
This is something that attractsme.
I mean, that, that I can helpthese, these women and men who
are.
Putting their, their life on theline every single day to just
(15:05):
have their own business and havetheir own say in their world.
Um, and so I wanted others totry to figure out what, what is
it that means something to you?
And so I sat down with, with,with a good friend who was
working for, uh, the, the parentcompany where I worked Car
Global at that time.
Uh, and someone that you knowquite well, Josh Plaskoff.
(15:27):
Mm-hmm.
And Josh and I started talkingabout it and, and.
And, and I told Josh that I'dlike to take people through a
discussion of why we exist.
And so he and I put together abunch of stuff and, and we
rolled some things out inJanuary of 18 and we were able
to take our, uh, entire company,which was roughly 600 people
(15:50):
through a process.
I told them it was important tome to have everyone involved,
and I understand that we allcan't gather and sit in a room
for a few weeks and do this.
There are different aspects ofthis process that can involve
every single person in thecompany.
Right.
And I said, I think it'll bemore meaningful, uh, if everyone
feels like they have a voice.
Mm-hmm.
(16:10):
And, uh, and that's what we did.
You know, we, we used a, aconference that we do every year
in January as the kickoff forit, where I had about 200 people
and we got them to roll up theirsleeves as part of, uh, their,
their time there to, to come upwith words and phrases that.
Meant something to them aboutAFC.
(16:32):
Mm-hmm.
And we used all of their wordsin these phrases to be the
process to start writing purposestatements.
And we, at the end of the day,we had a small team.
They took all that stuff that wehad gathered, and uh, they came
up with five statements that alllooked and feel the same.
And we pushed it out to everyonein the organization saying, you
(16:53):
get a vote.
Which one, which one resonateswith you?
And then I even asked everyone.
Um, if you do so, put in whyyou, why you selected the one
you did, why, why did it speakto you?
Right?
And then I even said, you know,if you're not really good with
words, snap a quick video onyour iPhone and send it to me.
And, uh, at the end of the day,we had a clear winner.
(17:15):
Um, I got 32%, which may soundkinda light, but the second
place came in with like 24.
So be clear, about 115 peopleprovided.
Comments, which I thought wasfairly well, about 25%, 25
people sent videos in.
And, um, so we had a winner,which you think like, yay, we're
(17:37):
done.
Yeah, we have a winner.
Uh, I called Josh to my office,uh, and, and, uh, in an act of
vulnerability, I told Josh, uh,I said, I got a problem.
I said, uh, I told everyone inthe company that.
The one you selected is the onewe're going with.
(17:58):
He said, uh, I can't do it.
I can't support the one everyonewants.
Oh.
And Josh was like, whoa, Jim,that's can't do that.
And I go like, I go, can youhear me out?
And he goes like, oh, okay.
I said, the first thing is theone that won, got 32% of the
vote.
He said, yep.
(18:19):
I said, that means 68% of thepeople wanted something else.
He's like, Jim, it's still won.
That's just the way it is.
And I'm like, all right.
I said, but the second one,Josh, you're not gonna have an
easy time talking me down from,and I said, uh, I read through
all these comments and I watchedall these videos, and, uh, I'd
(18:39):
see I voted for this one becauseof X, or I voted for this one,
but I wish it would've talkedabout X.
Mm-hmm.
And then I'm watching thisvideo.
It's a young lady from ourCincinnati office, and she said,
I voted for blah, blah, blah,blah in our community.
(19:02):
And the one that she hadmentioned didn't have the word
community in it.
And I started looking and Inoticed that only one of the
five had the word communities init, and it's the one that won.
But there were people that votedfor all this, but they were
like, I want communities.
And I realized our goal.
Was to come up with fivestatements that felt the same.
(19:22):
And we left out a criticalcomponent, which was
communities.
'cause communities is a veryfamily feeling.
Mm-hmm.
Word.
And it's important to everyone.
And I said, that's why I can'tdo it, Josh.
And he said, uh, you do exactlywhat you did with me, with all
of them and will understand.
And that's what I did.
I fell in the proverbial swordand I said, this is, I can't do
(19:44):
it.
This, this is why.
So what I'd like to do is I'dlike to pull together a small
group of your peers and havethem take all five and make it
into one.
Uh, and uh, I had phone calls, Ihad texts, I had emails, people
dropping by saying, thank you.
Thank you for listening, andthank you for allowing all of
(20:06):
our voices to be heard.
Right?
So, uh, you know, uh, that's.
The process that I used to buildthis.
And then it got rounded out by,uh, a group they called
themselves the culturecollective, led by a guy by the
name of Rob Pat Chadley.
And uh, and they came up withnot only the, uh, the final
product, which is we fuel theentrepreneurial dream in our
(20:26):
community, but they came up withthe four core values, which are
elevating relationships, beingpowered by passion, being vision
driven, and above all beingdedicated to you.
Mm-hmm.
Those things are foreverembedded in my brain.
Yeah.
I can't ever get rid of'em.
Um, but that purpose process, alot of, a lot of times people
tend to take things like purposeor values, um, their culture.
(20:52):
Mm-hmm.
It's like checking the boxexercises.
Mm-hmm.
And these things are notchecking the box, exercise.
These things have a life oftheir own and they continue to
be nurtured all the time.
And so I knew that.
That process of identifying itwas just one thing.
We don't, don't slam'em up onthe wall or give everyone a
(21:12):
little laminated card.
Right.
So they can put on their deskand, and, and it's always in
front of them.
You have to be very, very, Ihate to use this word purposeful
mm-hmm.
About getting the purpose outthere and making sure that
everyone not only sees it everyday, they, they live it every
day.
Mm-hmm.
And the only way they can liveit every day is you keep talking
about it.
As my good friend and old boss,Don Gottwald once said.
(21:37):
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Okay.
And that's what it is.
It is a lather, rinse, repeatexercise.
It never ends.
It just keeps going and goingand going like that little
energizer bunny, and it justgoes and goes and goes.
And, uh, that's the job, uh, ofbringing a purpose to life
mm-hmm.
Is, is never stopping.
Leslie (21:56):
Nice.
So, um, what I hear there is, atsome point in your career, you.
You were determined to reallylead with purpose.
Oh, yes.
And you had the opportunity todo that.
Yes.
And it was important, uh, tohear from everyone and not just
(22:19):
like re um, vote, but reallyhear yes and listen and be
thoughtful and intentionalbecause, uh, it was a
responsibility, a ha, a bigresponsibility.
Yeah.
That you carried.
Jim (22:34):
Yeah.
And, um, you know, andselfishly, you know, I, I, I
knew this was gonna be a goodexercise.
Mm-hmm.
Um, especially for my seniorteam, I really felt that they
would get a lot out of it.
I mean, they're still carryingthat same message today without
me being there.
(22:54):
Right.
Which, which tells me that itmade an impact on them.
Which, which is, which is great.
Uh, but I think it made a bigimpact on.
On, on a lot of people.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, um, the crazything is, um, sometimes when you
go through a process like this,um, even some challenging things
(23:17):
can come out of it and, uh, youknow, because there's gonna be
people that are naysayers,right.
That it, it's not that importantto them.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, then it becomes areally, really difficult thing
when you're a manager.
Or even a leader in theorganization, um, to try to
figure out, well then if we'vespent the time to identify who
(23:39):
we are and we're using purposein all of our decision making
mm-hmm.
We always shine that light on,is this who we are?
It becomes a lot easier to sayyes or no to something.
When you think about does thisrepresent who we are?
Right.
If it doesn't, then why are wetalking about it?
Leslie (23:56):
Yeah.
Jim (23:56):
Why are we wasting our time on it?
Why is that part of ourstrategy?
Um.
But if people don't want toalign with who we are to steal a
line from Jim Collins, theyprobably don't have a seat on
the bus.
Mm-hmm.
And you gotta start making somedifficult decisions.
(24:16):
Um, and, and some people havechallenge doing that.
Um, there are, there are peopleout there that, that we could
probably ask to.
To to step aside because maybethey're not performing or doing
things like that, but the onesthat are really scary are, are
(24:37):
the ones that are performing.
Yeah.
They're the ones that, uh, read.
Ha has Hastings, CEO, founderof, uh, Netflix calls the
Brilliant Jerks.
And the brilliant jerks are theones who they, they hit their
target every year.
In fact, they blow past it everyyear.
(24:59):
They're the, they're the personyou can't afford to lose.
But at the same time, they'rethe person that will run over
their teammate whenever theycan.
They will kick and scream andsteal from others.
They'll do whatever it takes tohit their numbers and to be at
(25:20):
the top of the game.
Right?
And then people think, I can'tafford to lose them.
'cause look what they do everysingle year and.
They don't think about themorale that's being just
trashed.
They, they, they don't think of,uh, the, the other people that
they're starting to lose becausethey don't like working with
this individual anymore.
They can't stand it.
(25:41):
They're very toxic.
Uh, so that can be a verydetrimental impact of, of, of
having a purposes if, if youdon't really act honestly
towards your purpose, right?
Because there's, there's falloutfrom all this.
'cause there are some people.
That just leave me alone.
Let me do my thing.
Uh, and uh, uh, you do yourlittle purpose thing all day
(26:04):
long at school.
But, uh, I think sometimes yougotta figure out are, are those
the people you want in yourorganization or not?
Right.
If you really, truly do believenot only your purpose, but your,
your values, and if they don'tadhere to them, they really
shouldn't be there.
Right?
Yeah.
So it depends A challengingaspect of Right.
Having a purpose.
Leslie (26:24):
Yeah.
Well, and what I was thinkingabout as you were talking is the
difference between individualpurpose and shared purpose.
You know?
And it is, um, it's, it is onething to just have a purpose and
put it up on the wall, but it'sanother thing to live it out.
(26:44):
And, and when you're doing thatamongst other people towards a
shared purpose, it, there's aresponsibility of.
Um, keeping people honest to it.
Right.
And, and making the difficultdecisions.
Yeah.
Jim (27:01):
And, and it's important even for, uh, you know, I hate
to like, to use the word the,the staff kind of level people
to hold the managers responsibleas well.
Right.
'cause if they're not living itout, that's a problem.
Right.
Um, you, you mentioned, youknow, shared company purpose
versus individual purpose.
(27:23):
Mm-hmm.
I think that to, to me that'sprobably one of the biggest
reasons why you need to haveyour purpose, uh, alive and
kicking, so to speak.
Uh, and you need to identify it,uh, and live it because more and
more people want to know that,am I joining an organization
(27:43):
that actually.
Feels good with me personallymm-hmm.
That I can, I can support thator do I connect with it
perfectly.
Mm-hmm.
Which even makes it even abetter thing.
I think if you have the, do theright thing with, with your
purpose, it can be a great wayin, uh, you know, uh, acquiring
new talent in the organizationmm-hmm.
As well as retaining yourexisting talent.
(28:06):
Um, but, uh, I, I often feltlike.
In the last, call it seven yearsto eight years, that when I
would interview people, and itwasn't often that I was
interviewing someone a littlebit lower, but occasionally I
got to, to, to go down a littlebit lower.
You know, you always think abouta, a as a manager of people
that, that you're the one that'sin charge of that interview.
(28:30):
And it was slowly kinda to kindof, to flip a little bit.
And that is the person who wasinter being interviewed.
They were trying to figure out,is this the place where I wanna
spend Right.
40% of my waking hours eachweek.
Mm-hmm.
Is this where I want to investmy time and my energy?
And I could start to sense that,that I was being interviewed.
(28:52):
Okay.
And I liked that.
I liked, and so that even helpedit, it even made the process of
identifying that purpose evenmore easy because Right.
That became, became one of thethings that I talked about in
the interviews was this is whowe are.
Mm-hmm.
These are the values that, that,that we hold dear to our heart.
How does that sound to you?
Yeah.
You know, and, and basically,you know, uh, getting people to
(29:16):
get the light bulb going off,this is a place I want to be, I
wanna be a part of this.
Right.
And, uh, you know, when you,when you have that strong
purpose and, and those corevalues and, and people can see
that you are.
Honest.
Mm-hmm.
And you're living them out.
Um, it goes a long way in, in,in, in that hiring process.
Leslie (29:38):
You talked about, um, once you had your purpose and
the values, that it was morethan just putting them on the
wall and you said it's aboutcommunicating them, like
constant communication.
What were some other ways, uh,maybe with the executive team?
Let's start there.
What were some other ways whereyou made purpose a part of the,
(30:02):
the rituals and routines ofbusiness?
Jim (30:06):
Well, uh, I'll tell you, um, one of the simplest ways
that I did it, which is gonnasound kind of maybe a little
crazy, um, you know, we'd have,you know, meeting agendas,
Leslie (30:19):
Uhhuh.
Okay.
Jim (30:20):
And, and right across the bottom of the agendas was the
purpose statement and the fourvalues.
'cause we had the, the valueswere, uh, they were graphical.
Okay.
Okay.
So they were like littlepictures.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and, um, so it was always infront of people.
Yeah.
When you started, if you had apresentation, the, the very
first slide had the purposestatement.
(30:42):
Mm-hmm.
It, it was, I mean, you just,you always just keep it in front
of people.
I, I did an email.
52 times a year called lastweek, and it was right on there.
Okay.
It was just right on there.
Um, and, uh, you know, you,you're always calling it out.
Yeah.
(31:02):
I hate to say, I'm not tryingto, you know, dumbify it or
anything like that, but itreally was just keep it front
and center.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, and then youcatch yourself.
Using the words.
You know, I, I love it when Iwould go out and visit people
and they would say, well, Sally,over here, she's just power with
passion.
And I'm like, oh gosh, that'sjust going straight to my heart.
(31:23):
I'm going like, you know, theyweren't being prompted to say
that.
They just were saying it.
Right.
And that is because I think itwas not ingrained in people, but
they always saw it and then theystarted believing it.
Mm-hmm.
Which is, you know, which it wasalways there.
Like I told them, I said, Ididn't.
You know, I, I didn't come upwith this, this purpose.
(31:46):
I didn't come up with thesevalues.
You all always had'em there,right?
I just shined the light on it.
Mm-hmm.
I just brought it to the surfacefor you.
This, this is who you are.
Right.
Because this, this is what yousay every single day.
Um, and, and our customers, uh,can sense that as well.
Leslie (32:02):
Yeah.
Well, it's interesting that yousay that because in season one.
Um, I was talking with peoplethat had clarity in their
purpose and they were living itout every day.
And one of the things that Ilearned is that understanding
our purpose is a process ofgoing within.
(32:23):
Mm-hmm.
Like it's an intentionalprocess.
It's not something that justlike we slam into, we Right.
We do that throughintrospection, through asking
questions.
And it sounds like that'sexactly what you did for Shared
purpose, is you took the time tosay, we're gonna all get
together and we're going to takea moment and think about our
(32:45):
purpose and, and it's alreadyhere within us, but we're gonna
be able to articulate it.
Right.
And then in terms of theroutines and rituals, keeping it
in front of people.
Um, it does, it starts to makeit woven into the fabric when
you talk about it, when Iimagine you're telling stories
(33:08):
of people living in purpose orhearing stories, it sounds like.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jim (33:14):
Yeah.
And, and so, um, one of thethings that, that I did about
two years after all of that hadkind of been identified.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I sat down with a, a ladywho worked with me, Devra
Callahan, and, and we, she was,um, VP of marketing and, and I
(33:35):
told her, I said, you know,there's one thing that that does
bug me about our values is that,um, we talk about'em a lot,
which is great.
And I, and I, and I see peoplethat, um, they shake their head,
yeah, yeah, that's who we are,you know, and, and sometimes
they kind of like, you know,kind of do that.
And I'm going, like I said.
(33:56):
Let's try to think about how doyou see our, our values in
action.
So, and that's what we did waswe came up with, there's about
five to six sentences that, thatwe eventually embedded below it
to kind of like, so when someonesays, what does power by passion
mean now?
Now they actually have, youknow, some examples of what that
(34:19):
looks like in action.
A lot of that's the customerexperience.
Yeah.
Side of it.
Or even the people experienceside.
Um, but I, I thought it wasimportant that we, we kind of
gave them some, some thoughts,Uhhuh, because sometimes they
would, they go, gosh, I justdon't see that in action.
Then when you show that, they golike, okay, now I get it.
Yes.
Okay.
(34:39):
Now I am powered by passion.
Right?
Yeah.
I, yeah, I get it.
I get vision driven.
I, I get it.
Right.
I am.
So, I, I think it was really,you know, helpful, uh, to, to,
to do that and give them alittle bit more insight of.
Of how they're living them out,even when they can't even sense
that they're living it out.
Right.
And it's like, no, you are.
Leslie (34:58):
Yeah you are.
Jim (34:59):
You do this, you do that.
Look at that.
And they're like, oh
Leslie (35:02):
yeah, yeah, I do do that.
And that think it creates alittle
Jim (35:03):
bit more excitement about it.
Absolutely.
A purpose.
You know, another thing thatpurpose, a really well written
purpose statement could, can be,is a very inspirational mm-hmm.
Uh, wording.
Uh, creates motivation and, and,uh, it's not that you're,
you're, you're, you're, you'retrying to be deceitful or
(35:24):
anything like that, but, uh,you're saying it in a way that
it, you should, you should feelan immense pride in who you are.
Right.
This is who we are.
Right.
And be prideful of that.
That's okay.
And use it for your source ofinspiration.
Mm-hmm.
If you need to, like, they do itin Notre Dame football, if you
have to go up and, you know,slap the, whatever, uhhuh,
whatever the little sign is,they have believer.
(35:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I'm, I'm, I'm not a Notre Dame.
I'm not a gold.
I'm not sure if that's it, butI'm,
Leslie (35:50):
but yeah.
But yeah,
Jim (35:52):
this is, it's the same concept.
If you need to do that, then dothat.
Right.
Leslie (35:56):
You know?
Yeah.
Do you, speaking of, I love thevalues in action.
Um, because I do think sometimespeople need help making that
bridge, you know, the connectionto purpose and values.
Do, did you do any type of, um,did you weave that into
performance reviews orself-evaluations or,
Jim (36:18):
yeah, so we, we, we, they started weaving in the values
into the interview process.
Okay.
So there would be.
Questions that were kinda likefocused on being powered by
passion or elevatingrelationships.
So those, and they would even, Ithink they would even talk like,
you know, one of our values isthis and how do you go about,
(36:39):
you know, doing this
Leslie (36:40):
uhhuh.
Jim (36:40):
Um, we, we didn't get it all the way we interwoven into
the, uh, the review process.
But the review process wasactually, uh, starting to
change, which was kind of cool.
So, you know, went from that,um.
One pager.
You do it in February, and thenyou talk about here's the stuff
(37:03):
you did really well, and here'sthe stuff that we, you can do
better.
You remember, you rememberLeslie back in March and I was
like, come on, gimme a break.
You know?
And I, I hated reviews.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, I just, because I'mlike.
Reviews should be immediatefeedback.
Leslie (37:19):
Right.
Jim (37:20):
Okay.
That should happen.
A review, a re a review couldhappen every week.
Leslie (37:23):
Right.
Exactly.
Jim (37:24):
You know, and there's no reason to call out stuff.
But then we, we got to the pointat the, when I left, we were
down to, we did four check-ins.
Okay.
'cause I was a big fan ofsomething I, I called quarterly
check-ins.
Mm-hmm.
And, and I did it with about 28people.
And it was just, I wanted to sitdown for 45 minutes.
(37:44):
You can use up the entire 45minutes.
I just wanna know three things.
What's going well?
What's not going so well, andhow can I help?
You know?
And, uh, you know, some peoplemay wonder why did I, why, why
did I do it?
Uh, you know, I wanted to knowwhat you, Leslie, thought you
(38:05):
were, was going well, right?
Because I, there were timeswhere I'd go like, you're right.
That was incredible.
Great job.
Or I would go.
Why do you think that's going?
So well help, help me tounderstand that.
Or this didn't go well, right?
And I'm like, why do you thinkthat didn't go well?
I mean, you know, I wantedpeople to understand that, that
(38:28):
when we make mistakes or when wefail, as long as we're learning
from it, I'm like, don't worryabout it.
Right?
But they would think like, it'sthe end of the world.
I made a mistake up all'em.
Like, did you learn something?
Oh God, I'm never doing that.
I'm like.
Amen.
Right.
That's, that's all that neededto happen out of it.
So, um, uh, that check-inprocess, uh, that I had, I think
(38:53):
maybe had some influence onothers and, and how we started
kind of maybe changing otherstuff with the organization.
Leslie (38:59):
Yeah.
Hopefully from a spective.
Yeah, that's great.
Jim (39:02):
Because I used, I, I used them ad nauseum.
I, I, I loved him.
I looked forward to my, myquarterly checkups, Uhhuh.
Leslie (39:08):
Yeah.
That's awesome.
It took a lot of time, but, but,but a lot.
Yeah.
But it also, I imagine theperson that you're meeting with
felt valued and importantbecause you're asking and and
you're asking how you can helpthem too.
'cause you want them to besuccessful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you went through this processof discovering purpose, um,
(39:30):
working to weave it into thefabric of the business.
What changed?
After
Jim (39:38):
what changed?
Leslie (39:39):
Yeah.
What were the outcomes of it orOh, the outcomes?
Jim (39:42):
Well, uh, outside of, you know, I, I think, uh, more
cohesiveness.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I, uh, I can tell you, uh,I, I was having a conversation
with, uh, some people at, uh,central Indiana, better Business
Bureau Uhhuh, that there,
Leslie (39:59):
you know, Kathy?
Yeah.
Kathy was episode one.
Jim (40:01):
Yeah.
So, so I was talking with themand, and I even.
Talking about purpose and, and Igo, you know, you might not buy
into this purpose thing.
Uh, so I get it.
I'm a finance guy, I'm a numbersguy.
You know, I, I, intangibles arereally kind of cool, but I kind
of get stuck on the tangibles.
What did it do?
(40:22):
And, and I, and you know, I canhonestly tell you that where we
were as, as a business in 2016,mm-hmm.
Started rising in 2018.
Mm.
And we went off and, and we hitrecord earnings in 22.
Uh, but all of our, our metricsthat were important were all
(40:44):
increasing, uh, minus the, thepandemic, which kind of course
kind of threw everyone for over.
Yeah.
But, and it's growing backagain.
But, uh, I can honestly tell youthat I, I think the reason
behind that type of growth thatwe had.
That we had an excited workforceand, uh, they were very prideful
(41:04):
and, and their goal was always,how can I make my customer
extremely happy?
Yeah.
Because I always told everyone,listen, at the end of the day,
if we can just, if we can justnail the customer experience and
we can have really happycustomers, it's hard to not win.
Right?
I mean, it, it's just reallyhard to not win.
(41:26):
When you're doing all that stuffthe right way and, uh, and,
Leslie (41:30):
and, uh, show.
Well, and the, the purpose wasall about fueling the
entrepreneurial spirit, whichwas the customer Oh, as the
entrepreneur.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jim (41:42):
We, we, you know, there was, there was nothing better
than watching small businessevolve over time.
Mm.
You know, I mean.
Um, and, and I've got, I, I havelike the outliers, if you wanna
call'em the outliers.
I can still rem Remember someonewho started with about a$75,000
line of credit with us, and thenwhen they left us, they had
(42:04):
about 16 million.
Wow.
Uh, and another guy that wasprobably, he, he started a
little bit before I did.
So when I knew him, he was about150 and he was in the mid
twenties, 20 million range.
Both of them left to, to, to goto more.
What I think of bankingrelationships,
Leslie (42:21):
Uhhuh,
Jim (42:22):
um, which is what I always envisioned, was, uh, we're there
to help these small businesses,but at some point they're gonna
outgrow us Uhhuh, and that'sokay.
Right?
That's okay.
Yeah.
Let's go.
Let's, that's good.
Yeah.
Let's just keep finding more andmore people like that to just
kind of keep blossoming andgrowing.
Mm-hmm.
And if, if they leave us,they're not leaving us, they're
just transitioning onto anotherplace.
(42:42):
Right.
They're never gonna leave us.
Leslie (42:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yes.
Jim (42:47):
cause a lot of them.
Their, their parting gift to uswas, I'll make sure that if
anyone comes up to me to say,you know, uh, I'm thinking about
starting out the business.
Exactly.
You need to talk to a FC, right?
Yeah.
Leslie (42:57):
Okay.
So you mentioned your numbersguide, tangible outcomes.
You saw it, but what was it?
It was 2016, I think that yousaid when you, what was it?
And before that.
It sounded like purpose didn't,it was probably there in your
career, but it, it wasn't likea, a wouldn't call out
(43:20):
spotlight.
Yes.
Yeah.
It
Jim (43:21):
really wasn't.
I mean, it, uh, you know, itwas, it was always there.
We just didn't, uh, call out thepurpose statement.
Yeah.
There was a mission statement.
Okay.
But a mission statement to meis, is very much a, a, a.
Document that illustrates what,what we do uhhuh.
(43:45):
And it's really, I think of itas a mission statement, is more
short term in nature.
Okay, so what are we gonna dothis year?
Right?
This is how we make our money.
This, this, this is, this iswhere we're going to serve our
customers, et cetera.
And the vision statement is thataspirational thing, that this is
where we, we want to get to.
Mm-hmm.
We wanna get to this place.
You need both a mission and avision, but.
(44:07):
I think a purpose statement iswhat grounds both a mission and
a vision statement.
Mm-hmm.
Because if my purpose statementand my mission statement don't
align one of'em wrong.
Right.
Okay.
Yeah.
One of'em wrong.
Same thing with my purpose andmy vision.
If they don't align, one ofthem's wrong.
Mm-hmm.
I'm not saying it's the purposeis is right and the other's
(44:28):
wrong.
I'm just one of'em is wrong.
Right.
Because it's very easy to say,this is our purpose.
Well.
What's going on?
It doesn't really feel likethat's your purpose.
Right.
You might need to take anothershot at it, and that's okay.
Leslie (44:41):
Yeah.
Or
Jim (44:42):
sometimes purposes they evolve.
Leslie (44:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jim (44:45):
But to just stay on top of it.
Leslie (44:46):
So what was it that happened in 2016 or before where
you're like, this is missing,or,
Jim (44:53):
well, 2016.
I got to make the decisions.
Leslie (44:58):
Okay.
You were put in the position.
So I
Jim (45:00):
was, I was, the position was there and, and I really felt
like, like I said before,selfishly, I was like, I think
we need this Uhhuh.
I, you know, and I, I need thisuhhuh, I, I need, I need people
to understand that.
This is what I value.
(45:20):
Mm-hmm.
In, in, in this, this job that Ihave, in this organization that
I work for.
You know, I, I want everyone toknow that I'm here because, um,
I wanna help these women and menhave a shot, right.
I wanna be a part of theirtrajectory to their successful
mm-hmm.
(45:41):
Path.
And I want people to know that,but I also wanted them to, to
know.
How would you categorize whowe're, so that, for me was
extremely important.
And I was like, you know, I canmake the choice.
And we're, we're doing it.
Darn it.
Yeah.
We're gonna do it.
We're we're, we're gonna do it.
And some people may think I'mcrazy, but I think it's the
(46:01):
right thing to do.
And I've, I've read enough stuffto, to know that that purpose is
extremely important.
Yeah.
And I'm like, you know, it'sgonna be hard for someone to
say, this is a not a, not a, nota good use of time.
Obviously Josh, Josh was allover it.
Uhhuh, I mean, he loved it and,and uh, and then others stepped
up and yeah, they could reallysense that it was important as
(46:21):
well.
Leslie (46:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jim (46:22):
And then that evolved into something I, I think I shared
with you and others within theconscious capitalist
organization that I called theTennis Ball
Leslie (46:30):
Uhhuh.
Jim (46:31):
And, and that was really what is your personal purpose.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, you know, because thattennis ball, uh, uh, I think it
was Drew Houston.
From, uh, a company calledDropbox was given the
commencement address and he wastalking about, um, with those
seniors that were getting readyto graduate, that if he had a
(46:51):
cheat sheet when he graduated,it would've been the greatest
thing in the world, what toexpect when I enter the real
world.
And he's like, I'm gonna give itto you.
And he talked about it's onlygot three things in a tennis
ball, a circle, the number30,000.
And uh, and I'll go backwardsin, uh, a little bit.
And, uh, the circle was allabout.
Surround yourself by, by a fourto five people that can really
(47:17):
bring the best out of you.
Mm-hmm.
That is something you need.
Make sure you're not aroundpeople that don't pull the best
out of you.
Yeah.
So, surround yourself withreally smart people.
We only have about 30,000 daysin our lives, which is about 80,
82 years of age.
So time is of the essence.
Don't waste your time, spend itwisely.
(47:38):
And the tennis ball.
He talked about the dog that hehad when he was a kid, and the
dog could be just lounging onthe couch and he could pull that
tennis ball out.
That dog would just come tolife.
Uh, and he would throw the balland the dog would just chase it,
chase and chase it.
You know, that tennis ball wassomething to that dog and he's
(47:59):
like, find something that reallymeans something to you.
Find a problem that you'rereally passionate about solving.
Or find something that justbrings you excitement and do it.
Yeah, do it.
Make sure you're doing somethingthat brings you life and that's
(48:20):
that's your purpose.
Yeah.
So I always ask people what getsyou outta bed each day?
What, what's, what's that tennisball that makes you decide to
want to jump in the shower atsix in the morning?
Mm-hmm.
Shower, shave.
Head off to the office or jumpon a plane.
Right.
Or get in your car and go visitco.
Why do you want to do that?
Yeah.
And, and I, I wanted to knowwhat was your purpose, right?
(48:43):
Yeah.
That was my way of asking foryour personal purpose.
Right?
And then it was about, okay, ifthat's your personal purpose,
think about our purpose.
Uhhuh, kinda start connectingthe dots a little bit.
Leslie (48:54):
Yeah.
Love that.
I love the connection topersonal purpose in the
workplace.
Why am I getting up?
And doing this job right.
How can I get energy out of it?
How can I get excitement fromit?
Jim (49:07):
Well, you know, um, as I was getting ready for my, my
talk with, uh, Kathy's crew, um,I had been looking at, you know,
stuff about why is a purposeimportant.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, uh, I wasthinking about the, the people
side.
Hiring side.
(49:27):
And as I'm looking through abunch of stuff, like on the
internet, you know, I'm kind oflooking, uh, I kind of started
to see a theme building.
And this is more of like, youthink about like the millennials
and, and, and Gen Z, or I mean,so these are the pe these are
the people that are kind of likemm-hmm.
Really getting active in theworkforce.
And there are, they're wepredominantly five things that
(49:48):
just kept showing up that werereally, extremely important to
them from a job perspective.
Mm-hmm.
And the first one.
It's like the no-brainer.
You know, they wanna be paidwell, right?
They wanna be adequatelycompensated because they all
have needs and wants.
Mm-hmm.
And so that, you know, thatneeds to happen.
The second thing is, uh, and,and it's obvious from the
(50:11):
pandemic, they want flexibility.
Right.
You know, they, they, they, theywant to know that if I'm gonna
come in the office, it makessense.
Otherwise, why am I commuting?
Two hours a day.
Right.
Et cetera.
Or I've got kids.
Mm-hmm.
How can I, how can I maintainthat balance?
So they want that flexibility.
They also want recognition.
Mm-hmm.
You know, they want to know thatwhen I'm doing a good job.
(50:34):
Okay.
At the same time, I think kindof embedded in recognition is
they want feedback.
Yeah.
Constructive feedback, becausethey wanna know what, what could
I do better?
Right.
Because the fourth thing is.
I wanna do something differentin two years.
So they want career growth.
Right.
But the fifth one is they wantto know that this is a
(50:56):
meaningful job.
Yeah.
I'm doing this more than just tomake a buck for you.
Right.
I'm not doing this just to makeyou hit your bonus, et cetera,
et cetera.
Mm-hmm.
I wanna know what I'm doing.
Working for this organization ismeaningful work and.
Has some higher purpose to it.
Mm-hmm.
And I tell you, uh, if peopledon't believe that having a
(51:20):
purpose is a wise thing, themore and more you start
interviewing younger people intheir twenties, people coming
outta college, you're gonna findout that they're gonna be
extremely selective and they'reeven willing probably at times,
to forego dollars to have aplace that really connects well
with them.
Mm-hmm.
They're willing to do that.
Leslie (51:41):
Yeah.
So
Jim (51:42):
it's extremely important.
Leslie (51:43):
Yes.
Yeah.
Thanks for sharing those.
Jim (51:46):
Yeah.
Leslie (51:47):
Uh, any advice for, let's think of leaders out there
who are, um, wanting to, uh,create cohesion in their
workforce.
Any advice for them?
Well, I
Jim (51:59):
mean, I, I, I think it could start with like a, like a
purpose process.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, I think that connectspeople, but if you're going to
do it.
You know, be ready.
It doesn't end.
Yeah.
It just keeps going.
And, and, and, and you, you haveto be serious about it.
Yeah.
You know, because if you're notserious about it, people will
see through it.
Mm-hmm.
(52:19):
And that there's more damagethat can come from that than not
even having a purpose.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, like, if you're not gonna beserious about it, I would say
don't do it.
Yeah.
Because you, you could create alot more problems for yourself.
Yeah.
So I think that's extremelyimportant.
And then, um, you know, listento people.
I think it's probably the bigthing.
Yeah.
Just listening to people, youknow, getting the temperature
(52:41):
from them, you know, um, stufflike that.
Yeah.
Leslie (52:45):
Anything for a manager that's not in that leadership
position?
Uh, listening obviously appliesto that person.
Jim (52:52):
Yeah, I, I would say, um, uh, from a manager perspective,
um, make sure that, that, thatyou're, uh.
You know, as, as tight with thepurpose as, as you can be as
well.
And, and that you're living outthose values because the last
thing you want to do is you, youwant to, you know, criticize
(53:15):
someone else when you know youneed to look in the mirror a
little bit.
Yeah.
So it does get back to that.
They need to live it as well.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I mean, otherwise it's notgonna be seen as, uh, you know,
uh, you know, authentic.
Leslie (53:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anything else left unsaid on thetopic of purpose in the
workplace?
Jim (53:32):
I, um.
I'm sure there's all kinds ofstuff that could be said.
We could go on for hours.
I know.
Yeah, prob probably, probably.
I've said enough.
Leslie (53:41):
I appreciate you sharing your story and living out
purpose every day in your life,whether it's in the workforce or
now in retirement through thethree Cs, so thank you.
Jim (53:53):
Yeah.
Second half.
Leslie (53:55):
Second half that, right?
Not that old.
Yes.
And in your second half?
That's second half.
Yeah.
Appreciate it,
Jim (54:00):
Leslie.
It was always great talking withyou.
Leslie (54:02):
Thank you.
Talking with Jim reminded methat purpose in business isn't
just about having a missionstatement.
It's about taking responsibilityfor helping others find meaning
in what they do.
Jim didn't stop at creating agood work environment.
He went deeper.
(54:23):
He made a long-term commitment,not to a project, but to the
people and to the purpose thatwould keep the business alive,
and maybe most importantly, hewas honest about the effort that
it takes.
Purpose isn't always easy, andit's not something that you just
(54:44):
do and let it sit.
It requires ongoing effort andan ongoing commitment.
Jim, thank you for leading withpurpose, and thanks to all of
you for listening in.
I hope this episode inspires youto show up fully committed to
your work, to your people, andto the purpose that fuels it
(55:07):
all.
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