June 10, 2025 • 57 mins
In the season finale of Purpose Project, host Leslie Pagel explores the concept of purpose in the workplace with Adam Binkerd, founder of 240Solutions. Over the course of this conversation, Adam shares how his decade of experience and research has shaped his views on organizational culture, focusing on the elements of belonging, vulnerability, and shared purpose. They delve into the roles of individual purpose and shared purpose within a business environment, discussing how leaders can align these to enhance organizational health. Both Leslie and Adam reflect on their personal journeys and emphasize the importance of making employees feel valued and purposeful. This episode provides insightful advice for leaders on fostering purpose and fulfilling human experiences within their teams.
00:00 Welcome to the Season Finale
00:25 Meet Adam Binkerd: Founder of 240Solutions
02:58 The Mission of 240Solutions
08:20 Understanding the Human Experience at Work
12:40 The Role of Shared Purpose in Organizations
15:45 Aligning Individual and Shared Purpose
21:08 The Responsibility of Purpose
29:33 Simplifying Purpose in Society
33:38 Teaching Purpose to Youth
36:00 Client Work and Culture Building
38:37 Leadership and Employee Purpose
39:15 Overcoming Insecurity in Leadership
49:27 Personal Journey to Purpose
54:15 Advice for Leaders on Purpose
56:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
For more content like this, check out Leading Adam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH4_TcZd75g&t=15s
Purpose Project is a research study on the topic of life's purpose. You can follow along in the making of Purpose Project:
Instagram: @purpose.project
LinkedIn: @purposeproject-media
TikTok: @purpose.project
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Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Welcome to the Season Finale ofPurpose Project.
I am your host, Leslie Pagel.
This season we have beenexploring the topic of purpose
in the workplace.
We've been looking at whatpurpose looks like, how it shows
up in the impact that purposehas when it's done well.
(00:25):
In this final episode, I sitdown with Adam Binkerd, founder
of 240Solutions.
Adam brings a perspective onthis topic that's formed from
over a decade of knowledge,research, and hands-on
experience working with businessleaders to help them unlock the
human experience in theworkplace.
(00:48):
Whether you're a founder, afrontline manager, or simply
someone who's looking to findmore meaning in your work, this
episode is for you.
Let's take a listen.
Leslie (00:59):
Adam, thank you for being on Purpose Project.
Yeah.
I'm looking forward to learningfrom you and exploring this
topic of purpose in theworkplace.
Adam (01:06):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to the conversation.
It feels familiar.
It seems like we've done thisbefore.
Huh?
Leslie (01:11):
We have actually.
Adam (01:13):
Yeah.
In studio.
I sat over there though, so, uh,yeah.
This is, uh, this is good.
It feels comfortable.
Almost feels like we're both athome.
Mm-hmm.
So there's no home cornadvantage.
Not that it's a competition.
I
Leslie (01:24):
like that.
Yeah.
Adam (01:27):
Yeah.
Leslie (01:27):
Well, before we get into the topic of purpose in the
workplace, tell us a little bitabout who you are personally and
professionally.
Adam (01:35):
Yeah, so personally, I'd say probably three primary
components to understandingAdam.
Uh, I'm a follower of Christ.
I am a husband and a father.
Everything that I do in my lifecomes from one of those three
things.
Mm.
And so as a, as a person, it's,it's really that, it's pretty
simple.
(01:55):
Mm-hmm.
Um, I love, you know, on thehobby side of the personal, uh,
I am, uh, the quintessentialman's man.
I love construction.
I like working on cars.
Uh, if it goes fast and has amotor, I want to, I wanna mess
with it.
Um, guns, you name it, I am, I'minto it.
(02:15):
And, um, that's probably myhobby life.
But.
Uh, that's the selfish side ofmy world.
Uh, but the unselfish side is,is, uh, trying to be a servant
in the community.
Um, to be a good husband and tobe a, to be an incredible
father.
Yeah, so that's the personalside.
Professionally, I am aconsultant.
Uh, own and operate my ownbusiness.
(02:37):
Mm-hmm.
Um, and have been doing that nowI'm in my fifth year and have
beat the statistics Nice.
As a business.
Congratulations.
And that feels great.
Uh, but it's a, it's a constantclaw to, uh, to stay relevant.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but that's, that's kind ofthe sum total here of me.
Yeah.
The personal and professional.
Leslie (02:55):
Tell us a little bit about your consulting business.
'cause that's one of the reasonswhy I was so excited to have you
on the show.
Adam (03:02):
Yeah.
So our, uh, our business, uh,240Solutions, uh, we focus
primarily on helpingorganizational culture.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and that's a broad term andI think, uh, a lot of people
kind of process through, well,we do employee engagement, but
that's really not what we do.
Uh, what we've tried to do iscook organizational culture down
(03:25):
to its fundamental base, uh,which is the, the result of a
healthy human experience.
So what we consult on mostly ishow do you improve the human
experience at work?
And to do that, it's, it'sfundamentally comprised of three
components that we focus on,which is belonging,
vulnerability, and sharedpurpose.
(03:46):
And so our work really kind ofcenters on that.
So if an organization's interestor, or a leader's interest for
their team is not, um, theirhighest interest is not a
healthy human experience.
I'm not your guy, you know?
So that's what we do in thebroad sense.
But as anything, there's a lotof practical things that we do
(04:09):
underneath of that, like leaderdevelopment and training.
Okay.
And facilitation and speaking.
You know, there's all thesethings, but what we're trying to
do is improve the health, uh,improve the human experience,
uh, at work.
Leslie (04:21):
Yeah.
Adam (04:21):
So,
Leslie (04:22):
and you talked a little bit about the type of client in
terms of.
Their motivation, but any othercharacteristics of your clients?
Adam (04:32):
Um, no.
You know, I get asked in thebeginning, I used to get asked,
what's your vertical?
You know?
Okay.
Everybody wants to know whatyour vertical is.
And, you know, verticals areimportant for scale.
I don't know that I'm aiming forscale.
I think I'm aiming for impact.
And so the only.
Um, similarity, I'd say betweenevery company or group that I've
(04:52):
worked with is the intent andheart of the leader.
Okay.
Uh, they, they, they want tounderstand the value of their
team mm-hmm.
Or their organization, thepeople in their organization,
beyond the work that they do.
So there's a value that youbring, right?
I sit down in the chair, I makeX widget.
But there's a value that that isin you.
(05:14):
Mm-hmm.
And the leaders I'm working withare interested in that, the
human capital sitting in theirspace, um, that doesn't come out
necessarily in the way theyprocess spreadsheets or, you
know, put together marketingplans or whatever the case.
Right.
Uh, so it's, it's really theheart of the leader.
And, and because of that, we'veworked across, uh, multiple
industries from municipalitiesto restaurants to education.
Leslie (05:38):
Okay.
Adam (05:38):
And, and still are.
Leslie (05:39):
Yeah.
Adam (05:40):
Absolutely.
Love it.
Leslie (05:41):
So what causes a leader?
Are you typically working withthe CEO or president or who,
who's typically come reachingout to you?
Adam (05:52):
Yeah.
It, it is almost always, uh, anexecutive.
Okay.
Almost always.
Uh, we've tried, I've had a fewthat started with the, uh, HR,
head of HR uhhuh.
Um, those are harder.
Okay.
Uh, because really withoutexecutive sponsorship, it
doesn't really get any traction.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but usually it is the, uh,company's executive or someone
(06:15):
on the executive team.
Okay.
That kind of brings it and then,uh, brings us in it.
A lot of times it starts with megoing to speak somewhere.
Okay.
And then they're like, why don'tyou come back and talk to our
group?
And then it turns into a clientor partner relationship.
Leslie (06:30):
Okay.
Okay.
And what is the problem thatthey typically are trying to
solve?
Why are they pulling you inbesides just like, you know,
they've got this, this heart fortheir people and that type of
thing.
Right?
But.
But is there a business problemthat they're trying to solve?
Adam (06:47):
It's funny you asked that because I, when I started, I
thought I was gonna get calls orengagements by people that just
had this godawful culture.
You know, Uhhuh like we, wereally want it to be better
'cause we're losing people bythe droves or, or something.
Um, and that's rarely the case.
I've worked with teams that haveretention issues and some of the
problems they're trying to solveis apps, absenteeism or, uh,
(07:10):
their.
They're trying to improve justthe, the overall sense of
satisfaction mm-hmm.
In the, in the workforce.
But by and large, it's a companythat says we have a good
culture, but there's somethingwe're missing.
Oh.
And typically what it is when weget in and we start doing our
work is because they focused on,on all the things that really do
(07:32):
make up, uh, traditionalemployee engagement.
Okay.
Which is kind of the, the subterm for healthy culture.
And, and those things are, aregood.
They're not wrong, uh, butthey're also not the level
lower, which is what we'refocused on, which is the human
experience.
Mm-hmm.
And so it leaves some stuff tobe desired.
(07:54):
And so usually the client issaying, we've got a really good
culture.
I.
But there's something about whatyou do, something about what you
said, that we think you can helpus be better than what we are.
And those are great groups towork with.
'cause they, they almostintuitively get it.
Mm-hmm.
Before we even start.
Leslie (08:10):
Hmm.
So.
There's so much I wanna peelback.
That's all right.
Go for it.
Let's do
Adam (08:16):
this.
I mean, we got time, right?
It's just us.
Leslie (08:20):
So they've been focused on employee engagement, but
you're going underneath that tothe human experience.
What, what does that mean?
Mm-hmm.
What does the human experiencemean?
Adam (08:32):
Yeah.
So I, I'm a guy who always likesto, you said, peel back the
onion.
Mm-hmm.
I like to keep pulling backuntil I have a source, um, of
something.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
So I'm never satisfied with, uh,take leader development, for
example.
Um, I can teach a leader to begood at conflict resolution, but
a better plan is to help themsee why.
(08:55):
They struggle to engage conflictresolution.
Right.
So if I can get to that, they'lldo conflict resolution better,
right?
And so it's always trying towork back to what is the, what
is the source of this stuff?
And, and we look at the wayorganizations are comprised.
Nothing in an organizationhappens without human
(09:16):
engagement.
Mm-hmm.
And so it's, it's going to thepoint of saying I've been in,
uh, healthy employee engagementareas.
And they have competitive wages,and they have flexible schedules
and uh, cool, um, you know, cokemachines and, and coffee
accessible to me all day longand those are great.
(09:36):
Mm-hmm.
But there's still a piece of meas a human that is asking the
question, do I matter?
Right.
And does what I do matter.
And to me that's the source.
Like how do we understand that?
And so that's the very basehuman level.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, that organizations oftenmiss because they do have to be
(09:57):
responsible for competitivewages and employee benefit
packages and, and, uh, all thesedifferent things.
And it can re really get kind oflost in the process that at the
same time.
You could give me, uh, as anemployee, you could give me a
30% raise.
Right?
And I'm gonna be thrilled todeath.
(10:17):
And nine to 12 months later, I'mgonna be thinking, I think I'm
underpaid.
I'm not sure I wanna be hereanymore.
Mm-hmm.
And they're not underpaid andthey don't feel that way.
But what they're saying is, I'mnot sure I matter here.
Mm-hmm.
And if we can solve that, weactually are solving the
employee retention challenge.
Mm-hmm.
And, and at that point, if yousolve that.
(10:38):
You, you're pouring into someoneand saying, you matter here and
what you do matters.
And then when my customer enengages that employee, they can
give that to them also.
Right.
And ultimately, as a businessowner, that's what I want.
I want my original vision to bethe, we're we are considered the
best in our class, whatever thatmight be.
(11:01):
And so sometimes the customeris, is a consumer, and other
times it's B2B.
Right.
Either way, I want them to feellike you're the only ones that
matter here.
And the only way to do that isto make sure my team knows they
matter.
Leslie (11:14):
Right.
Adam (11:14):
And that gets harder and harder the larger our teams get.
Mm-hmm.
Leslie (11:18):
So what I heard there is human experience is about having
a sense of purpose.
Mm-hmm.
You used the word matter.
Mm-hmm.
Um.
But I think of that word a lot.
Uh, I think of that in a lot interms of purpose, like feeling
like there's, uh, a, a meaning areason for, for the work that
(11:45):
I'm doing.
Adam (11:46):
Right.
Leslie (11:46):
Is that a fair?
Adam (11:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, one of the threecomponents of a healthy human
experience is shared purpose.
Mm-hmm.
And.
I think when you were, uh, whenyou joined us on leading Adam,
those worlds start to Yeah.
Fold over one another becauseyou can't have shared purpose
unless you have purpose as anindividual.
(12:08):
Yeah.
Right.
So, yeah.
I mean, having purpose, I thinkmattering is different than
purpose because mattering has acomponent of self concept and
self image in it.
Yeah.
Purpose does not.
Mm-hmm.
But I need purpose.
To express my mattering.
Right, right.
So I do think it's very, uh,fundamentally they are, they're
(12:28):
tied together.
They're very, very close, whichis why it's included as a
portion of what we call thehuman experience.
Leslie (12:36):
Yeah.
So you talked about sharedpurpose there.
Mm-hmm.
And one of the things that I'vebeen curious to understand is
there's individual purpose.
You know, me as Leslie, mypurpose is, X, Y, Z.
Right.
But then when we get into anorganization and we're working
(12:57):
mm-hmm.
With other people, it, it,there's this other thing of
shared purpose.
Mm-hmm.
How does shared purpose workwith individual purpose?
Or does it?
Adam (13:09):
I think it does.
I, I think, I think sharedpurpose ties us together.
Um, so I.
How do I explain this?
I think if, um, let's start atthe individual level.
'cause for me, I think in theworkplace, uh, individual
purpose shows up in meaningfulproduction.
(13:32):
Mm-hmm.
So when I've, when I've producedin a day and that production is
understood to me as meaningful,not, not to my supervisor, not
to the CEO.
But to me, and I look at thework I did that day and say,
that mattered, Uhhuh, why did itmatter?
(13:52):
Because of a, because of amission statement, right?
Because of, um, um, a customerneed.
Right?
There was something we're aimingat, and I think that's where our
individual purpose collides.
Mm-hmm.
And begins to marry really wellwith shared purpose.
And I think it's so, uh, to me,I would layer it as a.
(14:13):
Individual purpose is meaningfulproduction.
Mm-hmm.
That produces collaborativeconquering.
So I think in a, in a teampurpose looks like collaborative
conquering.
Okay.
You know, if, if we don't cometogether to solve whatever that
thing is, did we really become ateam?
(14:34):
Did we function as a team?
Because a, a team can functionin its individual parts.
It's not really a team.
Right?
Right.
We've, I think we've mislabeledthat in a lot of ways and we go,
well, because you're in the samedepartment, you're a team Uhhuh.
Well, that's not necessarilytrue.
So I think they kind of roll uptogether.
Individual purpose, you know,when I, I do meaningful
(14:55):
production that contributes to acollaborative conquering Right.
We then have fulfilled.
The mission Uhhuh for a clientor the organization, and now we
have three levels of, ofpurpose.
Okay.
The highest being shared
Leslie (15:10):
purpose.
Right, right.
Okay.
Um, it's still connected.
And that example, the meaningfulcontribution that I make mm-hmm.
Is connected to the broadershared purpose of the
organization.
Mm-hmm.
In that regard.
Adam (15:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I'd say in best case, I'msure through your, uh,
conversations and your research,you've, you've encountered
individuals who don't feel liketheir purpose aligns with that
Right.
Organization or company theywork in.
Mm-hmm.
And so it doesn't always workthat way.
Right.
But I think that's what we're, Ithink that's what we're craving,
(15:48):
uh, to do Uhhuh is when thosethings come in alignment, there
is extreme fulfillment.
Yeah.
Personally.
Yeah.
And I, I think if you were totake, we were talking just a
little bit ago about.
Wow.
Purpose, you know, I'm talkingabout mattering.
Is that purpose?
Mm-hmm.
Well, I think it's a secondcousin to it, right?
(16:09):
Yeah.
That mattering and includes theway I view myself and, and who I
am, my identity almost.
Mm-hmm.
And I can express that identitythrough a purpose.
And when I do that, and italigns with doing that in a
community, which we would callshared purpose.
Yeah.
We've maximized fulfillment.
Mm-hmm.
And I think fulfillment issomething we're all kind of
(16:31):
chasing, and we do it indifferent ways.
Mm-hmm.
But I think that's where itcomes from, because that's kind
of how we were designed right,is to really.
Do together.
Right.
Uh, so I can, I can bepurposeful and have purpose
myself, but something in me,there's a void.
Mm-hmm.
Because I want to, uh, I want toreally come into community.
(16:52):
Right.
And achieve together.
Leslie (16:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So who owns Shared Purpose in abusiness?
Adam (17:01):
Hmm.
That's a good question.
Um.
Okay.
So I have some thoughts, but,but I want to, I wanna make sure
we're working on the same terms.
Yeah.
Leslie (17:12):
Yeah.
Adam (17:12):
When you say owns, what do you, how do you process that?
Leslie (17:16):
Or I, so I think of that as like, what would be the task?
So as an owner, I'm responsiblefor, um, identifying the
purpose, for sharing thepurpose, for activating the
purpose.
Mm-hmm.
Um.
For living out the purpose.
Adam (17:34):
Right.
So it's, it's almost, um, who's,who's driving it?
Right.
Who's
Leslie (17:43):
or responsible for maybe Yeah.
Responsible for
Adam (17:45):
who's observing it, who's, who's trying to make sure it's
happening.
Right, right.
So, okay.
So I, I think it's, I thinkthere has to be some
intentionality, which comes fromthe top.
Right in an, in an organization.
And I think that has to be, uh,really the highest level of
(18:09):
responsibility.
And that can look a lotdifferent in different
organizations.
You know, the CEO isn't alwaysthe top dog.
Sometimes there's a governingboard that he responds to, uh,
he or she.
Um, so I would, I would thinkfirst, uh, that that's why
executive sponsorship matters.
Yeah.
I think there has to beintentionality to.
(18:31):
Confidently and, and clearlystate we will X.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, I think of Paul QuinnCollege.
Uh, Dr.
LL is the president of Paul PaulQuinn College and has been now
for maybe a decade.
Um, when he took over, he wentthrough a process by which he
(18:55):
simplified the university'smission.
He simplified it from you.
You've seen mission statements,uhhuh, especially university
mission statements.
They, they're so lengthy and hecut it down and it's quite
literally their mission is endpoverty.
I think there's an element ofresponsibility in the person at
(19:18):
the top to not change themission statement, but to
simplify it to say, at the endof the day, if you're
questioning, what do I do inthis situation?
Does it fulfill this?
Right?
And he made it very simple.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
If what we're doing does notalign to ultimately diminish
(19:39):
poverty.
For the ultimate goal of endingit.
Mm-hmm.
Then it's the wrong thing.
Mm-hmm.
And I think, so the who ownsShared Purpose, all of us own
it.
Mm-hmm.
But somebody has to call it andsay, this is the most important
thing here.
Right.
And I think that's why at somepoint, someone's doing that.
(20:01):
And, and as an individual level,right.
When I'm looking for meaningfulproduction mm-hmm.
Uh, as I would processindividual purpose.
I'm thinking this doesn'tmatter.
Well, that's the moment I needto relocate.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And that's, I think that's wherewe're struggling a little bit in
our workforce is we've gotpeople saying, no, I want it to
(20:21):
be this.
Well, it's not your company, somove on.
Right.
Uh, we're wanting to tell peoplewhat they should tell us, our
purposes.
Mm-hmm.
And so there's this sharedobligation there that in shared
purpose, uh, if I don't align.
With what's being said, thesimplified this matters here,
(20:41):
um, then I should probably findsomething else.
And that's not a bad thing.
Yeah.
It just means now I have part ofthe obligation.
Right, right.
Because, uh, I can only, I canonly say so confidently,
charismatically, clearly,whatever.
This is what matters here somany times in so many different
ways.
And if it doesn't move you, itprobably never will.
Leslie (21:04):
Yeah.
Adam (21:04):
Um, and that's, uh, and that's gotta be okay.
Mm-hmm.
Leslie (21:08):
So I hear that we all own purpose.
We all own the shared purpose.
Adam (21:14):
Mm-hmm.
Leslie (21:15):
But there has to be someone, typically an executive
that is, simplifying the purposefor the organization.
Mm-hmm.
And, keeping it top of mind and,and so that it, so that everyone
can own it.
Adam (21:35):
Right.
Leslie (21:36):
Um, and there's a a lot of ways that they could do that.
The other thing I heard is that.
There's also sharedresponsibility.
Mm.
Yeah.
And how I heard that is okay.
The, the team, the people have aresponsibility of making
decisions based on the purpose.
Mm-hmm.
(21:56):
That is set.
But also the individual has aresponsibility in terms of, if
I'm not in alignment with this.
Yeah, I have a responsibilitytoo.
Adam (22:06):
Mm-hmm.
Have you, I'm curious because,uh, you, one of the things you
said that I was excited about,'cause I know we've got plenty
of time to have a conversation,was that, is that this is a
conversation Uhhuh, right?
And I like that part.
So let's turn it into aconversation now.
Okay.
Because we got a little, theyall, they, your audience knows
you now they know me.
Um, but we're both comfortablewith the mic and all of that,
(22:29):
so.
Mm-hmm.
I'm curious in that when youthink of your journey.
Uh, across your professions, hasthere, has there been moments
where you go, I don't wanna linehere mm-hmm.
And, and to where you didn'ttake action?
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
And then you just stayed?
Yeah.
What was that like for you?
And it, was there any pointwhere you finally decided to
(22:51):
take ownership?
You said responsibility, Uhhuh,take responsibility for that and
leave.
Uh, or did you, did it end upending without your, yeah,
without your, uh, decision?
I would
Leslie (23:02):
say, um, it ended up ending without me making that
decision.
Adam (23:07):
Okay.
Leslie (23:08):
Um, and, and ultimately the right outcome.
Happened.
Adam (23:16):
Okay.
Leslie (23:17):
It just, it wasn't an outcome that I created.
And so I've learned through thatbecause now I'm like, oh my
gosh.
Mm-hmm.
I, I have a respon, I had aresponsibility in this.
Yeah.
And I chose not to.
I chose to, um, to just, youknow, hope for the best.
(23:40):
Right.
You know, wait it out.
It'll fix itself.
Yes.
Yeah.
And ultimately, um, you know, I,I'm no longer there, not by my,
my doing so, and I'm gratefulfor that.
So
Adam (23:54):
not by my doing so Were you fired?
Leslie (23:58):
I wasn't, uh, I wasn't fired for performance reasons.
Right.
Yeah.
Adam (24:02):
Yeah.
I figure anyone worth theirsalt, uh, in life has been
fired.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, because I think.
That's not always true.
Right.
I mean, the first job I was everlet go from is because of
absenteeism.
Oh.
Which could seem to show up, um,to work on time.
Okay.
You know, I was 19 years old andan idiot Uhhuh.
So, but after that I've beenfired two or three more times
(24:24):
after that.
And it was always because I knewwhere I was trying to go and it
didn't fit.
Yeah.
And I think there's somethingreally interesting about that.
'cause you talked about theresponsibility, you used that
word.
To me as I'm pushing through inthose situations, um, I'm not
gonna compromise on some thingsuhhuh, that I believe that are
(24:45):
core to me, right?
Um, that doesn't mean I'm gonnado a certain thing because the
company wants it done this way,and I'm gonna do it this way.
I don't mean it that way.
I mean, when it comes down towhat they're asking of me is
contrary to what I believe iswho I am.
Right.
(25:06):
I.
What I really, um, am aiming togive into the world, right?
And so I, I have been fired morethan once.
One of them was just to, and Isay misalignment of purpose and
the, I won't talk about thecompany, but what their, what
their goal was was theproduction of print and
(25:27):
promotional items.
Leslie (25:28):
Yeah.
Adam (25:29):
Um, and I was a leader in that organization and.
Uh, the impasse came when Iwasn't willing to basically
become a micromanager.
Mm-hmm.
I wanted to lead a differentway, and they said, well,
you'll, you'll do this, this,and this.
And I said, I won't, and now I'mout.
Right.
(25:49):
But that was an absolutecollision of purpose.
Mm-hmm.
Because, you know, I'm not, I'mnot in the world to produce, uh,
print and promotional items.
Right.
I'm not in the world to educate.
People, I'm not in the world tobe a consultant.
Mm-hmm.
I'm in the world to valuepeople.
Right.
And I wasn't willing to devaluethose who I was working with by
(26:13):
reducing them to less than acompetent adult.
Right.
In the way that I managed.
Mm-hmm.
And so now at this point,there's an impasse.
My purpose is going this way,theirs is going this way.
Well, there's only one result.
Yeah.
You know, and, and I got axed.
Yeah.
And I'm cool with it.
Yeah.
Like, I'm still friends with theCO Yeah.
It doesn't, it's, it doesn'tcreate angst in me.
(26:35):
I mean, it was, it was never funto be let go.
Right.
But I think that's theresponsibility side of it.
Leslie (26:41):
Absolutely.
Uh,
Adam (26:42):
that my responsibility isn't necessarily to just comply
to the purpose.
Mm-hmm.
It's.
To understand my purpose, right.
And then be uncompromising inthe pursuit of that.
And if it aligns with a companyat some point, that's ultimate
fulfillment, right?
(27:02):
And so I think we've, in someways, we've allowed work to
become the source of purpose.
And it's foolish.
It's absolutely shortsightedand.
And the longer we do that, themore we look at the obligation
of the employer to give mepurpose.
Right.
And that's not me Uhuh, youknow?
(27:24):
So I don't know.
That was a bit of a rabbittrail, but, no, I was curious
'cause uh, I figured since you,uh, you said there's a
responsibility Yeah.
That had to be some point whereyou're, you had a collision as
well.
Leslie (27:36):
Well, I've just, through this work I have, um.
I have learned more about thatword responsibility, and that's
the word that I've chosen touse.
But, um, we, that word in and ofitself feels heavy.
You know, it feels like aweight, you know, I'm
responsible, I've gotta carry,you know, and what I've come to
(28:01):
realize is that, um, while it issomething that you carry.
The outcome of that is freedom.
We talked about this on yourepisode, on Yeah.
On your podcast.
Yeah.
And so I've, I don't look at itas a weight anymore.
I look at it as my path tofeeling free.
(28:23):
Hmm.
And, and when I look at it thatway, every Monday morning, I'm
excited about going to workbecause I've taken
responsibility to understand andalign
Adam (28:36):
right
Leslie (28:36):
between.
My purpose in the work that I'mdoing and how I can fulfill my
purpose through my work.
Yeah.
And it's not always a hundredpercent.
Yeah.
But I've taken thatresponsibility of it and, and I
know that that's, that's why Ifeel the way I do.
(28:56):
Mm-hmm.
Adam (28:57):
You
Leslie (28:57):
know?
Adam (28:58):
Well, you talk about, uh, responsibility is a weight, I
think the term itself, like whatis my purpose?
Mm-hmm.
I, I think that's a weight thatis unduly put on us.
Yeah.
We, we put it on ourselves,Uhhuh, but it really comes from
societal expectation.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
From, from the moment we're,especially now, I mean, you get
(29:20):
into even just primary schooland there, it's kind of all
trying to channel towards thefulfillment of some purpose that
all you're trying to do is like.
Color with the crayons, youknow?
And everything seems to betrying to channel you there.
And I think in a lot of ways, ifwe want purpose to become more
(29:42):
prevalent in our society,genuine purpose in people, I
think we've gotta simplify it tosay this shouldn't be
burdensome.
Right, right.
It's, I think, I don't even.
I don't process my purpose asdoing my purpose is, is more of
a being Yeah.
You know, than, than it is, thanit is action or practical.
(30:04):
Yeah.
Uh, and then it should inform mypractical.
Mm-hmm.
But it's not, it's not that.
And I think too many times.
Um, we put that especially onhigh school, like guide.
You think of guidancecounselors, Uhhuh, what do you
want to do with your life, youknow, and you're 16 years old
and you're going, I don't know,I wanna drive my car, right?
I want to date.
(30:24):
I'm hoping to see this moviethis weekend.
You know?
Um.
That was old.
That was old school.
I don't think that's anymore.
I don't think that's what'shappening these days, but that's
what I wanted to do.
And they're asking me, what areyou gonna do with your life?
Mm-hmm.
I have no idea.
Right.
Well, I think a better questionis who do you wanna be?
Yeah.
Because my purpose is tied tothat.
(30:46):
Yes.
And that's freeing.
Yeah.
Because I can be that.
Mm-hmm.
Whether I'm employed orunemployed.
Mm-hmm.
Married or not married.
Um, family or no family.
I can be who I want to be as ahuman being.
So yeah, maybe the weight ofpurpose alone.
Leslie (31:05):
Yeah, we need to definitely take some of that
weight off because, um, that is,that has definitely been, been a
consistent theme across thispodcast is purpose doesn't have
to be this big, grand thing.
Right.
And it doesn't have to be oncein a lifetime, you know?
Yeah.
I have a purpose.
(31:26):
When I, um, come, come here forthis, for this recording, you
know?
Right.
There's purpose in all kinds ofthings.
Yeah.
And it's, um, it is a way ofbeing.
Mm-hmm.
You know, instead of doing
Adam (31:40):
well.
So let's process it through, youknow, I have a business and, um,
I think that's maybe where weget off is like, what is my, we
get off track is what is mypurpose.
Mm-hmm.
We, we automatically go to whatam I gonna achieve?
Okay.
In life, right?
Mm-hmm.
So I think it is ultimatelysemantics.
So let's work it backwards as abusiness.
(32:02):
You know, 240 Solution is, ifyou ask me what is your vision,
I.
Well, my vision's to change theworld.
Yeah.
So if you put that, you go,geez, you talk about weight,
because I'm, I mean thatlegitimately.
Leslie (32:15):
Mm-hmm.
Adam (32:15):
Right.
I don't mean change my familydynamic.
I've done that already.
Leslie (32:20):
Yeah.
Adam (32:20):
I mean, change the literal world to where they write about
what happened.
Right.
That's my vision.
Yeah.
Um, my mission then is to helpleaders elevate the value,
understand, and elevate thevalue of the human.
In their organization.
Leslie (32:37):
Yeah.
Adam (32:37):
That's my mission.
Mm-hmm.
But when you cook it down to mypurpose is to make sure everyone
I encounter feels like theymatter.
Yeah.
And that's not heavy at all,because I'm gonna go to the gas
station and I'm gonna meet aclerk who probably hasn't been
called by their first name allday long.
Yeah.
And that's so easy for me to,thanks James.
Yeah.
(32:57):
Appreciate you.
Mm-hmm.
That's my purpose.
Right.
And if I do that consistentlyover time.
I will stack that up to amass agroup of people that may never
know my name that felt like theymattered.
Yeah.
And if someone matters, theywill help someone else matter.
(33:18):
Mm-hmm.
And so for me, I take that, thathigh and lofty and weighty goal
of change the world.
Yeah.
And I ultimately translate itdown to transformed lives.
Transformed worlds.
Yeah.
All I have to be interested in.
It's the one I'm sitting with.
Right.
Because that's the one thatreally matters.
Yeah.
So I think we, we have to teach,uh, because this isn't natural.
(33:43):
Right.
Societal pressure for purpose istoo big to hope.
Our gen, our youth get this.
Yeah.
We need to teach them that.
No purpose is is simple.
Yeah.
Right.
It's.
It is understanding who you wantto be right at the end of the
day.
Yeah.
And I think we should, I thinkwe should start taking kids to
(34:08):
more funerals.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
I mean, yeah, this sounds weird.
Like that's what you're thing tothe one to say that.
What a weird to say, Adam.
I get made fun of that.
Some of my friends are like, I,I do personally enjoy funerals
more than I do weddings.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and it's a simple reason.
Uh, a funeral is a celebrationof all that a person was.
(34:32):
Yeah.
And, and I'm inspired, I move tolive differently because my end
is coming at some point.
Mm-hmm.
Whereas a wedding is thebeginning of a lot of hard work.
Yeah.
And those two things aredifferent for me.
Right.
Yeah.
Um, but in some ways, again,it's a weird encouragement, but,
you know, being inspired bypeople who did something.
Leslie (34:53):
Do
Adam (34:53):
I live my life like that?
What's gonna be said somedaywhen someone stands up there and
says, Adam Pinkerd was, I hopethey say I.
Someone who cared about people.
Right.
Yeah.
You know, and that I'm sure theywill.
Yeah.
That informs the way I live mylife.
Exactly.
So it was a bit of a tangent.
Season one,
Leslie (35:13):
we had, um, uh, someone who worked in hospice care on
the Okay.
Podcast, and she talked a lotof, she also encouraged us to
take our kids to more funeralsand to talk about death.
Yeah.
And to talk about what do I wantpeople to, how do I wanna be
remembered?
Mm-hmm.
Um, and so I'm not
Adam (35:34):
the only morbid guest you've had, is that what you're
saying?
No.
No.
Okay.
I feel like when I said that Ishould grow my hair out, dye it
black and wear a trench coat,but that's not what I mean.
I, I not death is is tragic.
Yeah.
And loss is horrible.
Uh, but there's something sobeautiful in hearing the sum
total of someone's life.
Yeah.
(35:54):
Uh, unless it didn't add up tomuch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then it's really sad.
Yeah.
So,
Leslie (36:00):
so going back to your work, the work that you do
mm-hmm.
Because you just described yourbusiness, the vision mm-hmm.
The mission, the purpose is, areyou working with your clients to
do that for them?
Are you working with them to, onthe vision, mission, and then
(36:21):
kind of the, the individualpurpose or not?
Adam (36:26):
I would say no.
Leslie (36:27):
Okay.
Adam (36:27):
Um, I'm not spending a lot of time doing that because
again, what they're asking iswe've got a good culture.
Mm-hmm.
How do we make it a greatculture?
And so I think practicallyspeaking, uh, we do a lot of
leader development.
I do a lot of coaching.
Okay.
Individual coaching.
And so as I'm working throughthose Sure.
I'm trying to help thempractically understand how do
(36:48):
you connect.
The department's purpose, the,the company's purpose to the
doing that's happening downhere.
Right.
So there's a practicalcomponent, but in, in regards to
helping them kind of rethinktheir vision, mission, and
purpose.
Definitely not, um, if somethingwere to adapt because of that
mm-hmm.
That would be great.
(37:08):
But mm-hmm.
We're not, I don't considermyself an expert in those, uh,
in those areas.
Okay.
Uh, so not, not really a focus.
Leslie (37:17):
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
So I've envisioned this,intersection of circles.
So one circle is the companypurpose or this shared purpose,
the team purpose.
Mm-hmm.
And the other is the individualpurpose.
Yeah.
And I've been wondering.
In order to accomplish ourgoals, our vision, our mission,
(37:39):
and contribute here.
Obviously the best is whenthey're totally overlapped, you
know?
Sure.
That's the best.
Yeah.
But that, you know,
Adam (37:48):
that's like a team of one.
Leslie (37:49):
That's
Adam (37:51):
right.
I mean, let's be honest, that'sgonna be one person.
Yes.
Leslie (37:55):
So, but I've been wondering is if, can I just,
could you just get.
Employees to really help connecttheir being, you know, who they
wanna be in the world mm-hmm.
To the work that they do.
(38:15):
Mm-hmm.
As a way of moving forward or doI really need to focus on this
kind of overlapping of the, ofthe two circles?
Does that make sense?
Adam (38:28):
I think so.
Um.
Ask it one more time.
I think so.
And I'm processing somethoughts.
Yeah.
So say it one more time.
Okay.
Leslie (38:37):
So as a business leader, can I accelerate my business
performance mm-hmm.
By putting more emphasis.
On the employee's purpose.
Mm-hmm.
And activating that in theirjob.
Adam (38:55):
Yes.
Leslie (38:55):
Versus the organizational purpose.
Mm-hmm.
Um, yeah.
Adam (39:02):
Yes.
I think the answer is yes, andI, well, let me say that more
confidently.
Yes.
The answer's yes.
I don't think it's, yes, I knowit's, yes.
Um, I.
So the question then becomes whydon't people do it?
Leslie (39:19):
Right?
Yes.
Adam (39:21):
Because if I pour into you to pursue and understand your
purpose, you might leave me.
Mm.
Right.
So the reluctance of a CEO orteam leader or anything to build
into people purpose that mighttake them somewhere else, right.
Is actually insecurity.
Yeah.
And so when.
(39:43):
In this world, we have to, toreally see it differently.
I, I worked in an organizationonce, uh, where I was not, at
the time, I was not a hiringmanager.
I was the head of a departmentof one.
And so I didn't have to hireanyone at that point.
Uh, but I was asked to helpinterview, uh, on some other,
(40:04):
for other departments, um, asthey were going to be making new
hires.
And I remember coming out of aninterview where I thought,
that's the person, my goodness,that is the person.
And we sat down in the debriefand one of the hiring managers
said, man, they're awesome.
They would be great, but theywon't stay.
And I thought, what a stupidreason not to hire someone.
(40:25):
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, and again, I knowthat sounds a little bit harsh,
but that's me.
Right?
If the person that I hire that'sa per a beautiful fit.
Because they bring everything weneed, but they're going to
leave, they'll make me better insix months than someone who
comes and stays for two or threeyears.
(40:46):
Mm-hmm.
And we've gotta be okay withthat.
And I don't think we aregenerally speaking.
So ultimately it requires a kindof this altruistic shift of
people leading companies to saywhat matters is that you are.
Becoming who you were alwaysintended to be.
(41:07):
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Your original created design andvalue to this world that's most
important to me.
Mm-hmm.
But it's not, it's onlyimportant to me.
If it fulfills that, which I'mtrying to do to build my wealth,
my, my prominence or whatever,that's always gonna be an
imposition to pouring intopeople's purpose.
Yeah.
(41:27):
And in part, that's why I'veprocessed to say.
If humanity's the highest goal,we have to confront that at some
point.
Mm-hmm.
And so the leaders that I'mworking with, we always, at some
point there is an intersectionto say, if it's really about
their humanity, then you can'tworry if they'll stay.
(41:47):
Right.
Because their, their success,their achieving their purpose,
fulfillment on this planet mightnot have anything to do with you
other than a brief impasse.
Mm-hmm.
To, to learn and to grow and tobe inspired, to be challenged.
But we don't see it that way.
Yeah.
I see it as what if they leaveme?
(42:10):
Mm-hmm.
And that's really shortsighted.
Leslie (42:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And yeah.
Okay.
You helped answer the questionand the thing that I've, um,
that I was thinking through.
As you were responding, wetalked earlier about who owns
it.
Mm-hmm.
And I do feel like that's asense of responsibility for the
(42:34):
leaders now hearing you mm-hmm.
Is to, um, pour into theirpeople and to have conversations
about individual purpose.
Yeah.
You know, I think back over mycareer, I have never ever been
asked.
What is my purpose in life?
(42:55):
No, never.
Adam (42:56):
You know, I've never been asked
Leslie (42:57):
and, um, and I don't know that it, it needs to even
be asked that way, but I've notbeen asked any shades
Adam (43:04):
mm-hmm.
Of
Leslie (43:05):
gray around that
Adam (43:06):
question.
Leslie (43:07):
Okay.
You know what I mean?
Adam (43:08):
Really.
I mean, not even one time youdidn't have one inspired leader
who asked Leslie, where, wheredo you want to be?
What do you wanna, I've had
Leslie (43:15):
that, but it's more in the context of like.
Where do you wanna be in thisjob?
Doing what you're doing in here?
Gotcha.
You know what I mean?
As opposed to Leslie as like ahuman on this earth.
Mm.
What do you care so much about?
What do you, you know?
Adam (43:32):
Mm-hmm.
Leslie (43:32):
It, it's, it's, it's typically been connected to the
job.
Yeah.
Um, makes, makes sense.
I, I have the privilege
Adam (43:38):
of working closely with one of the highest Chick-fil-A
franchise groups in the world.
Mm-hmm.
And they have one of theirleaders.
Um, is focused on this verything.
And he says, he says, Adam, ourpurpose as a franchise is to
wholeheartedly help people climbtheir mountain.
(43:59):
And I think that's really rare.
Leslie (44:02):
Yeah.
Adam (44:02):
And I think it's honestly why they are one of the highest
performing in the world becausethey've made their intent to
help those people that, that puton that name tag and show up at
Chick-fil-A to say, it's mypleasure.
Their mission isn't to slingchicken.
Right.
It's to help you climb yourmountain.
Right.
(44:23):
I don't know why we have to seeorganizations like that do that
and then just go, well, it worksfor them, but it won't work for
me.
Right.
But you're right.
It's not, it's not, I, I don'tthink it's a common question or
even series of questions.
That's what you're saying, likenot even shades of gray, right.
Of what's your purpose?
That's interesting.
I, but across my career, itwasn't anyone I worked for
(44:45):
asking me that.
Mm-hmm.
There were people in my lifeasking me that.
Leslie (44:49):
Yeah.
Adam (44:49):
But not, not my employer.
Leslie (44:51):
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Adam (44:54):
Huh.
Leslie (44:54):
Well, and the other thing that just occurred to me
in that story of, you know, our,you know, and our franchise at
Chick-fil-A, our purpose is tohelp people climb their
mountain.
Mm-hmm.
That, to me, that sounds so muchlike leadership.
Yeah.
You know, one of the things thatI'm coming to understand through
(45:16):
season two is that purpose isleadership.
Mm-hmm.
You know, because it is reallyabout putting myself aside Hmm.
And, and bringing this group ofpeople.
And when I do that, I care aboutthose, you know, I want what's
best for
Adam (45:37):
Yeah.
For others, you know?
So, can I ask.
Can I ask questions?
Absolutely.
Am I allowed to ask questions?
Um, do you think purpose isselfless individual purpose?
Do you think individual purposeis selfless?
Leslie (45:53):
Yeah.
So on your episode, I definedpurpose.
Mm-hmm.
And I've added to it.
Adam (45:58):
Okay, good.
Leslie (45:59):
So, um, and then I'll answer.
So I, I have defined purpose asa constant state of alignment
mm-hmm.
Between who we are.
What we do.
That's what I shared on yourepisode, right?
Which is very much about livingauthentically.
Sure.
Like, I'm gonna be who I, I'mgonna be, I'm gonna honor who I
(46:19):
am and the actions that I take,
Adam (46:21):
right?
Leslie (46:22):
The piece I added is constant state of alignment
between who I am, the work thatI do, and the difference I wanna
make in the world.
And so when I, when I addedthat, it very much is living
authentically.
Adam (46:38):
Sure.
Leslie (46:40):
For others, for a, for a, a bigger purpose.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Adam (46:46):
So what I agree with you, but what might someone who's
engaged in purposeful doingmm-hmm.
But living an authentic looklike,'cause that wouldn't be
purpose based on yourdefinition, but is there, is
there kind of an example to say,well, it might look like this.
Leslie (47:08):
Yeah, I mean, I could think of, um, people that feel
like I need to donate money, notbecause I want to donate money,
but because I want to, or I needto be on this board, this
nonprofit board.
Not because it's something thatI want to do, but because it's
(47:28):
going to add to my resume andgood pr.
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
Adam (47:32):
I see what you're saying.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So maybe then.
Purpose, genuine purpose mm-hmm.
Is selfless.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, and how do you, I mean,genuine purpose, what does that
even mean?
Yeah.
Fulfilling purpose maybe.
Yeah.
Is selfless.
Do you, do you think that ifsomeone is pursuing purpose but
(47:54):
not finding fulfillment that itis, it is.
Probably because that purpose isto, um, selfish.
Or do you think it's becausethere's an inauthenticity in
there?
Leslie (48:08):
Yeah, so I will, I'm going to, um, address one thing
first.
Okay.
And then go to that because I dothink that there is an element
of purpose that is self selfish.
Adam (48:22):
Sure.
And that makes sense.
Leslie (48:24):
That is fulfillment.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
You know what I mean?
I do this because.
It makes me feel really good,you know?
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
If there's an element of thatYeah, too, you know, that's
fair.
So there is an element of that,but I do think someone that is,
um, not getting the fulfillment,it could be that'cause,'cause
(48:49):
sometimes purpose.
Hmm.
Um, does get into the doing, youknow, I'm trying to create this
in the life, in my life, and soI've gotta do these things in
order to, and sometimes there'sa weight to that.
Mm-hmm.
Is, um, exhausting and tiringmm-hmm.
(49:10):
And all of that.
And so it, it can make you feelnot fulfilled.
Adam (49:14):
Sure.
Leslie (49:15):
Um, in the moment.
Yeah.
You know, but when you kind ofzoom out and look at it,
hopefully it does.
If it doesn't Yeah.
When you zoom out, thensomething's I think misaligned.
Adam (49:25):
Sure.
That makes sense.
I, taking it back to me, youknow, I said my purpose is, is
simplified to the point that Iwant everyone that I interact
with to feel like they matter.
Mm-hmm.
Well, that's ultimately takessome preparation.
Right.
And I think in the preparationis.
Preparing for purpose looks morelike doing Yeah.
(49:48):
For purpose and probably nobetter example than my own wor
my own life.
And I, in 2006, December of2006, I got a vision for my
life, Leslie, that changedeverything.
Mm-hmm.
I was still battling addictionat that time.
I was trying to get an educationand struggling in this process
(50:08):
and someone in the, in the room.
Was talking about being a worldchanger and that the university
produced world changers.
And uh, and then they saidbefore they left, they said one
last thing to the room and itwas, you can be a world changer.
And when this individual, hername's Stacy, when she said
this, she was looking at me, shewasn't talking to me, she was
(50:30):
talking to the room, but shemight as well have been talking
to me because I walked out ofthat room differently that night
and I thought.
I wanna be a world changer.
I believe I can change theworld.
Yeah.
Which is so foolish because Iwas at the end of a 13 year
struggle with addiction.
My marriage was falling apartand here I am, audaciously
(50:51):
thinking I'm gonna change theworld.
But it required something of mein that moment.
And I think there was a, therewas purpose in me birthed, and
then I had the obligation.
To explore, how do I fulfillthat purpose?
What does that actually mean forme and what's true of me?
(51:12):
Yeah.
Because as long as it's anauthentic, it's exhausting.
Yeah.
Because it has to be inalignment.
And that's what you're saying.
And I think that preparation forme,'cause I went from that
moment, I went 14 yearsstraight, pursuing more and more
education.
To today in doing what I do, Ihave two master's degrees in
leadership and my doctoralcoursework done in
(51:33):
organizational leadershipbecause of that moment.
Yeah.
And my purpose then, which wasbirth in a really, in a really
immature and unformed state, wasenough for me to effectively
draw back the bow.
And I think for 14 years I hadbeen drawing back the bow.
(51:55):
I.
And I think when I stepped outin 2021 to say, I'm ready and
I'm gonna start my business, itwas me pulling the trigger to
release that arrow.
Yeah.
To say, I have been pouring intomyself to do this, and now I
have the freedom back to whereyou started.
Purpose gives us freedom.
(52:17):
I now have the freedom tocompetently and confidently help
people see that they matter.
And no matter what context, Isit from the gas station to the
boardroom.
Yeah.
Uh, I have equipped myself, ifyou will, to stand with anyone
in any conversation and be avalue add to them.
(52:43):
Yeah.
And that took from the verymoment, a seed that took
watering, it took, it took somepruning, it took a lot of things
along the way.
But ultimately it, uh, itflourished and it came something
now that I hope is bringingvalue to the world.
Yeah.
And uh, and it started bybelieving that I could, when I
(53:07):
was standing in a season where Ihad very little value for
myself, let alone value to theworld.
Yeah.
And, uh, I think some beautifulthings can come out of some
really rocky soil.
Leslie (53:19):
Yeah.
And
Adam (53:19):
I am a living testament to that.
Leslie (53:21):
Yeah.
We might have to have you backto dig into that because it's a
long story.
The whole fear, like fear andlike how do you get started and,
you know, all that, all of thatis something that it holds so
many people back.
Yeah.
Um, and so we don't have timefor that today.
(53:41):
Right.
But yeah.
Yeah.
We'll, we'll be back hopefully.
Well,
Adam (53:44):
I, I'm, I'm an open book and I think there's a lot in
that.
And the simple answer is do itafraid.
Yeah.
That's, um, it's the only way todo it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Fear's an illusion, in myopinion.
Leslie (53:58):
Yes.
So,
Adam (54:01):
but yeah.
Leslie (54:02):
Well, we've talked about a lot.
Mm-hmm.
Let's take a leader out therewho's listening, who may mm-hmm.
Struggling to get purpose intheir team, or, to be.
Working together towards ashared purpose?
Any advice for that type ofleader?
Adam (54:18):
Yeah, the advice I would give is determine what the
purpose is.
Determine what that, that thingthat you're trying to, to
achieve.
Because in a business, the.
You're in business to, to solvea problem, to close a gap, and
ultimately to be profitable inthe process.
(54:38):
Mm-hmm.
But whatever that problem is, isto define it and define it
clearly, and then say it, say itemphatically and, and be okay
with people saying, that's notme.
I, I think what holds us backfrom saying this is where we're
(54:58):
going.
I know the way I.
Is that we want everyone that'scurrently with us to believe us
and to go to, but they mightnot.
And so I think it's, it'slooking, my advice is look in
the mirror, become okay, firstof the fact that this is what
we're gonna do and if peoplethat are currently with me
(55:20):
aren't in the pursuit, that'sokay.
Yeah.
And I think that has to start inthe mirror looking in your own
eyes and asking if you're okaywith that.
Because it's not as simple asjust saying it.
Right.
Because what will keep you fromstaying that course is
insecurity.
That those who I think arenecessary in that journey might
(55:43):
not be with me.
Yeah.
In, in six months or a year orwhatever.
And we've gotta let that go.
Um, and uh, and just run afterwhat, what we know matters.
'cause that's the alignmentyou're talking about.
Yeah.
And, uh, nothing will kill a CEOfaster than misalignment.
Mm-hmm.
They'll burn out in a, in amonth, you know.
(56:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, uh, that would be mine.
Look in the mirror.
Decide what it is.
Say it with confidence, clarity,and emphasis, and just run.
Yeah.
And let the people get behindit.
Leslie (56:15):
All right.
You heard him.
Adam (56:16):
All right.
Leslie (56:17):
Anything else left unsaid?
Adam (56:19):
I don't think so.
Other than thank you.
Uh, you know, you, you joined usand we had, we got into some of
these bits and.
And got to hear what you'redoing and now to be a
participant in the research thatyou're doing.
Uh, I appreciate it and haveenjoyed the conversation.
Yeah.
So thank you.
And
Leslie (56:35):
I'll drop a link to our episode on Leading Adam in the
show notes.
Adam (56:39):
Awesome.
That'd be great.
Leslie (56:40):
Wonderful.
Thank you for being on PurposeProject.
Adam (56:43):
Thanks, Leslie.
I am walking away from seasontwo with a deeper understanding
of purpose in the workplace, onething has become crystal clear
to me, and Adam touches on thisin our conversation here as
well, and that is that in orderfor purpose to live within the
(57:03):
workplace, the business has totake the initiative to help each
employee connect their personalpurpose to the work.
And each individual employee hasto participate in this process
as well.
Thank you for joining me thisseason as we've explored what
(57:27):
purpose in the workplace reallymeans.
Until next time, stay connected,stay curious, and keep living on
purpose.
Leslie (57:40):
Purpose Project is brought to you for education and
for entertainment purposes.
This podcast is not intended toreplace the advice that you
would receive from a licensedtherapist or doctor or any other
qualified professional.
Welcome to the Season Finale ofPurpose Project.
I am your host, Leslie Pagel.
This season we have beenexploring the topic of purpose
in the workplace.
We've been looking at whatpurpose looks like, how it shows
up in the impact that purposehas when it's done well.
(00:25):
In this final episode, I sitdown with Adam Binkerd, founder
of 240Solutions.
Adam brings a perspective onthis topic that's formed from
over a decade of knowledge,research, and hands-on
experience working with businessleaders to help them unlock the
human experience in theworkplace.
(00:48):
Whether you're a founder, afrontline manager, or simply
someone who's looking to findmore meaning in your work, this
episode is for you.
Let's take a listen.
Leslie (00:59):
Adam, thank you for being on Purpose Project.
Yeah.
I'm looking forward to learningfrom you and exploring this
topic of purpose in theworkplace.
Adam (01:06):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to the conversation.
It feels familiar.
It seems like we've done thisbefore.
Huh?
Leslie (01:11):
We have actually.
Adam (01:13):
Yeah.
In studio.
I sat over there though, so, uh,yeah.
This is, uh, this is good.
It feels comfortable.
Almost feels like we're both athome.
Mm-hmm.
So there's no home cornadvantage.
Not that it's a competition.
I
Leslie (01:24):
like that.
Yeah.
Adam (01:27):
Yeah.
Leslie (01:27):
Well, before we get into the topic of purpose in the
workplace, tell us a little bitabout who you are personally and
professionally.
Adam (01:35):
Yeah, so personally, I'd say probably three primary
components to understandingAdam.
Uh, I'm a follower of Christ.
I am a husband and a father.
Everything that I do in my lifecomes from one of those three
things.
Mm.
And so as a, as a person, it's,it's really that, it's pretty
simple.
(01:55):
Mm-hmm.
Um, I love, you know, on thehobby side of the personal, uh,
I am, uh, the quintessentialman's man.
I love construction.
I like working on cars.
Uh, if it goes fast and has amotor, I want to, I wanna mess
with it.
Um, guns, you name it, I am, I'minto it.
(02:15):
And, um, that's probably myhobby life.
But.
Uh, that's the selfish side ofmy world.
Uh, but the unselfish side is,is, uh, trying to be a servant
in the community.
Um, to be a good husband and tobe a, to be an incredible
father.
Yeah, so that's the personalside.
Professionally, I am aconsultant.
Uh, own and operate my ownbusiness.
(02:37):
Mm-hmm.
Um, and have been doing that nowI'm in my fifth year and have
beat the statistics Nice.
As a business.
Congratulations.
And that feels great.
Uh, but it's a, it's a constantclaw to, uh, to stay relevant.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but that's, that's kind ofthe sum total here of me.
Yeah.
The personal and professional.
Leslie (02:55):
Tell us a little bit about your consulting business.
'cause that's one of the reasonswhy I was so excited to have you
on the show.
Adam (03:02):
Yeah.
So our, uh, our business, uh,240Solutions, uh, we focus
primarily on helpingorganizational culture.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and that's a broad term andI think, uh, a lot of people
kind of process through, well,we do employee engagement, but
that's really not what we do.
Uh, what we've tried to do iscook organizational culture down
(03:25):
to its fundamental base, uh,which is the, the result of a
healthy human experience.
So what we consult on mostly ishow do you improve the human
experience at work?
And to do that, it's, it'sfundamentally comprised of three
components that we focus on,which is belonging,
vulnerability, and sharedpurpose.
(03:46):
And so our work really kind ofcenters on that.
So if an organization's interestor, or a leader's interest for
their team is not, um, theirhighest interest is not a
healthy human experience.
I'm not your guy, you know?
So that's what we do in thebroad sense.
But as anything, there's a lotof practical things that we do
(04:09):
underneath of that, like leaderdevelopment and training.
Okay.
And facilitation and speaking.
You know, there's all thesethings, but what we're trying to
do is improve the health, uh,improve the human experience,
uh, at work.
Leslie (04:21):
Yeah.
Adam (04:21):
So,
Leslie (04:22):
and you talked a little bit about the type of client in
terms of.
Their motivation, but any othercharacteristics of your clients?
Adam (04:32):
Um, no.
You know, I get asked in thebeginning, I used to get asked,
what's your vertical?
You know?
Okay.
Everybody wants to know whatyour vertical is.
And, you know, verticals areimportant for scale.
I don't know that I'm aiming forscale.
I think I'm aiming for impact.
And so the only.
Um, similarity, I'd say betweenevery company or group that I've
(04:52):
worked with is the intent andheart of the leader.
Okay.
Uh, they, they, they want tounderstand the value of their
team mm-hmm.
Or their organization, thepeople in their organization,
beyond the work that they do.
So there's a value that youbring, right?
I sit down in the chair, I makeX widget.
But there's a value that that isin you.
(05:14):
Mm-hmm.
And the leaders I'm working withare interested in that, the
human capital sitting in theirspace, um, that doesn't come out
necessarily in the way theyprocess spreadsheets or, you
know, put together marketingplans or whatever the case.
Right.
Uh, so it's, it's really theheart of the leader.
And, and because of that, we'veworked across, uh, multiple
industries from municipalitiesto restaurants to education.
Leslie (05:38):
Okay.
Adam (05:38):
And, and still are.
Leslie (05:39):
Yeah.
Adam (05:40):
Absolutely.
Love it.
Leslie (05:41):
So what causes a leader?
Are you typically working withthe CEO or president or who,
who's typically come reachingout to you?
Adam (05:52):
Yeah.
It, it is almost always, uh, anexecutive.
Okay.
Almost always.
Uh, we've tried, I've had a fewthat started with the, uh, HR,
head of HR uhhuh.
Um, those are harder.
Okay.
Uh, because really withoutexecutive sponsorship, it
doesn't really get any traction.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but usually it is the, uh,company's executive or someone
(06:15):
on the executive team.
Okay.
That kind of brings it and then,uh, brings us in it.
A lot of times it starts with megoing to speak somewhere.
Okay.
And then they're like, why don'tyou come back and talk to our
group?
And then it turns into a clientor partner relationship.
Leslie (06:30):
Okay.
Okay.
And what is the problem thatthey typically are trying to
solve?
Why are they pulling you inbesides just like, you know,
they've got this, this heart fortheir people and that type of
thing.
Right?
But.
But is there a business problemthat they're trying to solve?
Adam (06:47):
It's funny you asked that because I, when I started, I
thought I was gonna get calls orengagements by people that just
had this godawful culture.
You know, Uhhuh like we, wereally want it to be better
'cause we're losing people bythe droves or, or something.
Um, and that's rarely the case.
I've worked with teams that haveretention issues and some of the
problems they're trying to solveis apps, absenteeism or, uh,
(07:10):
their.
They're trying to improve justthe, the overall sense of
satisfaction mm-hmm.
In the, in the workforce.
But by and large, it's a companythat says we have a good
culture, but there's somethingwe're missing.
Oh.
And typically what it is when weget in and we start doing our
work is because they focused on,on all the things that really do
(07:32):
make up, uh, traditionalemployee engagement.
Okay.
Which is kind of the, the subterm for healthy culture.
And, and those things are, aregood.
They're not wrong, uh, butthey're also not the level
lower, which is what we'refocused on, which is the human
experience.
Mm-hmm.
And so it leaves some stuff tobe desired.
(07:54):
And so usually the client issaying, we've got a really good
culture.
I.
But there's something about whatyou do, something about what you
said, that we think you can helpus be better than what we are.
And those are great groups towork with.
'cause they, they almostintuitively get it.
Mm-hmm.
Before we even start.
Leslie (08:10):
Hmm.
So.
There's so much I wanna peelback.
That's all right.
Go for it.
Let's do
Adam (08:16):
this.
I mean, we got time, right?
It's just us.
Leslie (08:20):
So they've been focused on employee engagement, but
you're going underneath that tothe human experience.
What, what does that mean?
Mm-hmm.
What does the human experiencemean?
Adam (08:32):
Yeah.
So I, I'm a guy who always likesto, you said, peel back the
onion.
Mm-hmm.
I like to keep pulling backuntil I have a source, um, of
something.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
So I'm never satisfied with, uh,take leader development, for
example.
Um, I can teach a leader to begood at conflict resolution, but
a better plan is to help themsee why.
(08:55):
They struggle to engage conflictresolution.
Right.
So if I can get to that, they'lldo conflict resolution better,
right?
And so it's always trying towork back to what is the, what
is the source of this stuff?
And, and we look at the wayorganizations are comprised.
Nothing in an organizationhappens without human
(09:16):
engagement.
Mm-hmm.
And so it's, it's going to thepoint of saying I've been in,
uh, healthy employee engagementareas.
And they have competitive wages,and they have flexible schedules
and uh, cool, um, you know, cokemachines and, and coffee
accessible to me all day longand those are great.
(09:36):
Mm-hmm.
But there's still a piece of meas a human that is asking the
question, do I matter?
Right.
And does what I do matter.
And to me that's the source.
Like how do we understand that?
And so that's the very basehuman level.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, that organizations oftenmiss because they do have to be
(09:57):
responsible for competitivewages and employee benefit
packages and, and, uh, all thesedifferent things.
And it can re really get kind oflost in the process that at the
same time.
You could give me, uh, as anemployee, you could give me a
30% raise.
Right?
And I'm gonna be thrilled todeath.
(10:17):
And nine to 12 months later, I'mgonna be thinking, I think I'm
underpaid.
I'm not sure I wanna be hereanymore.
Mm-hmm.
And they're not underpaid andthey don't feel that way.
But what they're saying is, I'mnot sure I matter here.
Mm-hmm.
And if we can solve that, weactually are solving the
employee retention challenge.
Mm-hmm.
And, and at that point, if yousolve that.
(10:38):
You, you're pouring into someoneand saying, you matter here and
what you do matters.
And then when my customer enengages that employee, they can
give that to them also.
Right.
And ultimately, as a businessowner, that's what I want.
I want my original vision to bethe, we're we are considered the
best in our class, whatever thatmight be.
(11:01):
And so sometimes the customeris, is a consumer, and other
times it's B2B.
Right.
Either way, I want them to feellike you're the only ones that
matter here.
And the only way to do that isto make sure my team knows they
matter.
Leslie (11:14):
Right.
Adam (11:14):
And that gets harder and harder the larger our teams get.
Mm-hmm.
Leslie (11:18):
So what I heard there is human experience is about having
a sense of purpose.
Mm-hmm.
You used the word matter.
Mm-hmm.
Um.
But I think of that word a lot.
Uh, I think of that in a lot interms of purpose, like feeling
like there's, uh, a, a meaning areason for, for the work that
(11:45):
I'm doing.
Adam (11:46):
Right.
Leslie (11:46):
Is that a fair?
Adam (11:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, one of the threecomponents of a healthy human
experience is shared purpose.
Mm-hmm.
And.
I think when you were, uh, whenyou joined us on leading Adam,
those worlds start to Yeah.
Fold over one another becauseyou can't have shared purpose
unless you have purpose as anindividual.
(12:08):
Yeah.
Right.
So, yeah.
I mean, having purpose, I thinkmattering is different than
purpose because mattering has acomponent of self concept and
self image in it.
Yeah.
Purpose does not.
Mm-hmm.
But I need purpose.
To express my mattering.
Right, right.
So I do think it's very, uh,fundamentally they are, they're
(12:28):
tied together.
They're very, very close, whichis why it's included as a
portion of what we call thehuman experience.
Leslie (12:36):
Yeah.
So you talked about sharedpurpose there.
Mm-hmm.
And one of the things that I'vebeen curious to understand is
there's individual purpose.
You know, me as Leslie, mypurpose is, X, Y, Z.
Right.
But then when we get into anorganization and we're working
(12:57):
mm-hmm.
With other people, it, it,there's this other thing of
shared purpose.
Mm-hmm.
How does shared purpose workwith individual purpose?
Or does it?
Adam (13:09):
I think it does.
I, I think, I think sharedpurpose ties us together.
Um, so I.
How do I explain this?
I think if, um, let's start atthe individual level.
'cause for me, I think in theworkplace, uh, individual
purpose shows up in meaningfulproduction.
(13:32):
Mm-hmm.
So when I've, when I've producedin a day and that production is
understood to me as meaningful,not, not to my supervisor, not
to the CEO.
But to me, and I look at thework I did that day and say,
that mattered, Uhhuh, why did itmatter?
(13:52):
Because of a, because of amission statement, right?
Because of, um, um, a customerneed.
Right?
There was something we're aimingat, and I think that's where our
individual purpose collides.
Mm-hmm.
And begins to marry really wellwith shared purpose.
And I think it's so, uh, to me,I would layer it as a.
(14:13):
Individual purpose is meaningfulproduction.
Mm-hmm.
That produces collaborativeconquering.
So I think in a, in a teampurpose looks like collaborative
conquering.
Okay.
You know, if, if we don't cometogether to solve whatever that
thing is, did we really become ateam?
(14:34):
Did we function as a team?
Because a, a team can functionin its individual parts.
It's not really a team.
Right?
Right.
We've, I think we've mislabeledthat in a lot of ways and we go,
well, because you're in the samedepartment, you're a team Uhhuh.
Well, that's not necessarilytrue.
So I think they kind of roll uptogether.
Individual purpose, you know,when I, I do meaningful
(14:55):
production that contributes to acollaborative conquering Right.
We then have fulfilled.
The mission Uhhuh for a clientor the organization, and now we
have three levels of, ofpurpose.
Okay.
The highest being shared
Leslie (15:10):
purpose.
Right, right.
Okay.
Um, it's still connected.
And that example, the meaningfulcontribution that I make mm-hmm.
Is connected to the broadershared purpose of the
organization.
Mm-hmm.
In that regard.
Adam (15:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I'd say in best case, I'msure through your, uh,
conversations and your research,you've, you've encountered
individuals who don't feel liketheir purpose aligns with that
Right.
Organization or company theywork in.
Mm-hmm.
And so it doesn't always workthat way.
Right.
But I think that's what we're, Ithink that's what we're craving,
(15:48):
uh, to do Uhhuh is when thosethings come in alignment, there
is extreme fulfillment.
Yeah.
Personally.
Yeah.
And I, I think if you were totake, we were talking just a
little bit ago about.
Wow.
Purpose, you know, I'm talkingabout mattering.
Is that purpose?
Mm-hmm.
Well, I think it's a secondcousin to it, right?
(16:09):
Yeah.
That mattering and includes theway I view myself and, and who I
am, my identity almost.
Mm-hmm.
And I can express that identitythrough a purpose.
And when I do that, and italigns with doing that in a
community, which we would callshared purpose.
Yeah.
We've maximized fulfillment.
Mm-hmm.
And I think fulfillment issomething we're all kind of
(16:31):
chasing, and we do it indifferent ways.
Mm-hmm.
But I think that's where itcomes from, because that's kind
of how we were designed right,is to really.
Do together.
Right.
Uh, so I can, I can bepurposeful and have purpose
myself, but something in me,there's a void.
Mm-hmm.
Because I want to, uh, I want toreally come into community.
(16:52):
Right.
And achieve together.
Leslie (16:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So who owns Shared Purpose in abusiness?
Adam (17:01):
Hmm.
That's a good question.
Um.
Okay.
So I have some thoughts, but,but I want to, I wanna make sure
we're working on the same terms.
Yeah.
Leslie (17:12):
Yeah.
Adam (17:12):
When you say owns, what do you, how do you process that?
Leslie (17:16):
Or I, so I think of that as like, what would be the task?
So as an owner, I'm responsiblefor, um, identifying the
purpose, for sharing thepurpose, for activating the
purpose.
Mm-hmm.
Um.
For living out the purpose.
Adam (17:34):
Right.
So it's, it's almost, um, who's,who's driving it?
Right.
Who's
Leslie (17:43):
or responsible for maybe Yeah.
Responsible for
Adam (17:45):
who's observing it, who's, who's trying to make sure it's
happening.
Right, right.
So, okay.
So I, I think it's, I thinkthere has to be some
intentionality, which comes fromthe top.
Right in an, in an organization.
And I think that has to be, uh,really the highest level of
(18:09):
responsibility.
And that can look a lotdifferent in different
organizations.
You know, the CEO isn't alwaysthe top dog.
Sometimes there's a governingboard that he responds to, uh,
he or she.
Um, so I would, I would thinkfirst, uh, that that's why
executive sponsorship matters.
Yeah.
I think there has to beintentionality to.
(18:31):
Confidently and, and clearlystate we will X.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, I think of Paul QuinnCollege.
Uh, Dr.
LL is the president of Paul PaulQuinn College and has been now
for maybe a decade.
Um, when he took over, he wentthrough a process by which he
(18:55):
simplified the university'smission.
He simplified it from you.
You've seen mission statements,uhhuh, especially university
mission statements.
They, they're so lengthy and hecut it down and it's quite
literally their mission is endpoverty.
I think there's an element ofresponsibility in the person at
(19:18):
the top to not change themission statement, but to
simplify it to say, at the endof the day, if you're
questioning, what do I do inthis situation?
Does it fulfill this?
Right?
And he made it very simple.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
If what we're doing does notalign to ultimately diminish
(19:39):
poverty.
For the ultimate goal of endingit.
Mm-hmm.
Then it's the wrong thing.
Mm-hmm.
And I think, so the who ownsShared Purpose, all of us own
it.
Mm-hmm.
But somebody has to call it andsay, this is the most important
thing here.
Right.
And I think that's why at somepoint, someone's doing that.
(20:01):
And, and as an individual level,right.
When I'm looking for meaningfulproduction mm-hmm.
Uh, as I would processindividual purpose.
I'm thinking this doesn'tmatter.
Well, that's the moment I needto relocate.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And that's, I think that's wherewe're struggling a little bit in
our workforce is we've gotpeople saying, no, I want it to
(20:21):
be this.
Well, it's not your company, somove on.
Right.
Uh, we're wanting to tell peoplewhat they should tell us, our
purposes.
Mm-hmm.
And so there's this sharedobligation there that in shared
purpose, uh, if I don't align.
With what's being said, thesimplified this matters here,
(20:41):
um, then I should probably findsomething else.
And that's not a bad thing.
Yeah.
It just means now I have part ofthe obligation.
Right, right.
Because, uh, I can only, I canonly say so confidently,
charismatically, clearly,whatever.
This is what matters here somany times in so many different
ways.
And if it doesn't move you, itprobably never will.
Leslie (21:04):
Yeah.
Adam (21:04):
Um, and that's, uh, and that's gotta be okay.
Mm-hmm.
Leslie (21:08):
So I hear that we all own purpose.
We all own the shared purpose.
Adam (21:14):
Mm-hmm.
Leslie (21:15):
But there has to be someone, typically an executive
that is, simplifying the purposefor the organization.
Mm-hmm.
And, keeping it top of mind and,and so that it, so that everyone
can own it.
Adam (21:35):
Right.
Leslie (21:36):
Um, and there's a a lot of ways that they could do that.
The other thing I heard is that.
There's also sharedresponsibility.
Mm.
Yeah.
And how I heard that is okay.
The, the team, the people have aresponsibility of making
decisions based on the purpose.
Mm-hmm.
(21:56):
That is set.
But also the individual has aresponsibility in terms of, if
I'm not in alignment with this.
Yeah, I have a responsibilitytoo.
Adam (22:06):
Mm-hmm.
Have you, I'm curious because,uh, you, one of the things you
said that I was excited about,'cause I know we've got plenty
of time to have a conversation,was that, is that this is a
conversation Uhhuh, right?
And I like that part.
So let's turn it into aconversation now.
Okay.
Because we got a little, theyall, they, your audience knows
you now they know me.
Um, but we're both comfortablewith the mic and all of that,
(22:29):
so.
Mm-hmm.
I'm curious in that when youthink of your journey.
Uh, across your professions, hasthere, has there been moments
where you go, I don't wanna linehere mm-hmm.
And, and to where you didn'ttake action?
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
And then you just stayed?
Yeah.
What was that like for you?
And it, was there any pointwhere you finally decided to
(22:51):
take ownership?
You said responsibility, Uhhuh,take responsibility for that and
leave.
Uh, or did you, did it end upending without your, yeah,
without your, uh, decision?
I would
Leslie (23:02):
say, um, it ended up ending without me making that
decision.
Adam (23:07):
Okay.
Leslie (23:08):
Um, and, and ultimately the right outcome.
Happened.
Adam (23:16):
Okay.
Leslie (23:17):
It just, it wasn't an outcome that I created.
And so I've learned through thatbecause now I'm like, oh my
gosh.
Mm-hmm.
I, I have a respon, I had aresponsibility in this.
Yeah.
And I chose not to.
I chose to, um, to just, youknow, hope for the best.
(23:40):
Right.
You know, wait it out.
It'll fix itself.
Yes.
Yeah.
And ultimately, um, you know, I,I'm no longer there, not by my,
my doing so, and I'm gratefulfor that.
So
Adam (23:54):
not by my doing so Were you fired?
Leslie (23:58):
I wasn't, uh, I wasn't fired for performance reasons.
Right.
Yeah.
Adam (24:02):
Yeah.
I figure anyone worth theirsalt, uh, in life has been
fired.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, because I think.
That's not always true.
Right.
I mean, the first job I was everlet go from is because of
absenteeism.
Oh.
Which could seem to show up, um,to work on time.
Okay.
You know, I was 19 years old andan idiot Uhhuh.
So, but after that I've beenfired two or three more times
(24:24):
after that.
And it was always because I knewwhere I was trying to go and it
didn't fit.
Yeah.
And I think there's somethingreally interesting about that.
'cause you talked about theresponsibility, you used that
word.
To me as I'm pushing through inthose situations, um, I'm not
gonna compromise on some thingsuhhuh, that I believe that are
(24:45):
core to me, right?
Um, that doesn't mean I'm gonnado a certain thing because the
company wants it done this way,and I'm gonna do it this way.
I don't mean it that way.
I mean, when it comes down towhat they're asking of me is
contrary to what I believe iswho I am.
Right.
(25:06):
I.
What I really, um, am aiming togive into the world, right?
And so I, I have been fired morethan once.
One of them was just to, and Isay misalignment of purpose and
the, I won't talk about thecompany, but what their, what
their goal was was theproduction of print and
(25:27):
promotional items.
Leslie (25:28):
Yeah.
Adam (25:29):
Um, and I was a leader in that organization and.
Uh, the impasse came when Iwasn't willing to basically
become a micromanager.
Mm-hmm.
I wanted to lead a differentway, and they said, well,
you'll, you'll do this, this,and this.
And I said, I won't, and now I'mout.
Right.
(25:49):
But that was an absolutecollision of purpose.
Mm-hmm.
Because, you know, I'm not, I'mnot in the world to produce, uh,
print and promotional items.
Right.
I'm not in the world to educate.
People, I'm not in the world tobe a consultant.
Mm-hmm.
I'm in the world to valuepeople.
Right.
And I wasn't willing to devaluethose who I was working with by
(26:13):
reducing them to less than acompetent adult.
Right.
In the way that I managed.
Mm-hmm.
And so now at this point,there's an impasse.
My purpose is going this way,theirs is going this way.
Well, there's only one result.
Yeah.
You know, and, and I got axed.
Yeah.
And I'm cool with it.
Yeah.
Like, I'm still friends with theCO Yeah.
It doesn't, it's, it doesn'tcreate angst in me.
(26:35):
I mean, it was, it was never funto be let go.
Right.
But I think that's theresponsibility side of it.
Leslie (26:41):
Absolutely.
Uh,
Adam (26:42):
that my responsibility isn't necessarily to just comply
to the purpose.
Mm-hmm.
It's.
To understand my purpose, right.
And then be uncompromising inthe pursuit of that.
And if it aligns with a companyat some point, that's ultimate
fulfillment, right?
(27:02):
And so I think we've, in someways, we've allowed work to
become the source of purpose.
And it's foolish.
It's absolutely shortsightedand.
And the longer we do that, themore we look at the obligation
of the employer to give mepurpose.
Right.
And that's not me Uhuh, youknow?
(27:24):
So I don't know.
That was a bit of a rabbittrail, but, no, I was curious
'cause uh, I figured since you,uh, you said there's a
responsibility Yeah.
That had to be some point whereyou're, you had a collision as
well.
Leslie (27:36):
Well, I've just, through this work I have, um.
I have learned more about thatword responsibility, and that's
the word that I've chosen touse.
But, um, we, that word in and ofitself feels heavy.
You know, it feels like aweight, you know, I'm
responsible, I've gotta carry,you know, and what I've come to
(28:01):
realize is that, um, while it issomething that you carry.
The outcome of that is freedom.
We talked about this on yourepisode, on Yeah.
On your podcast.
Yeah.
And so I've, I don't look at itas a weight anymore.
I look at it as my path tofeeling free.
(28:23):
Hmm.
And, and when I look at it thatway, every Monday morning, I'm
excited about going to workbecause I've taken
responsibility to understand andalign
Adam (28:36):
right
Leslie (28:36):
between.
My purpose in the work that I'mdoing and how I can fulfill my
purpose through my work.
Yeah.
And it's not always a hundredpercent.
Yeah.
But I've taken thatresponsibility of it and, and I
know that that's, that's why Ifeel the way I do.
(28:56):
Mm-hmm.
Adam (28:57):
You
Leslie (28:57):
know?
Adam (28:58):
Well, you talk about, uh, responsibility is a weight, I
think the term itself, like whatis my purpose?
Mm-hmm.
I, I think that's a weight thatis unduly put on us.
Yeah.
We, we put it on ourselves,Uhhuh, but it really comes from
societal expectation.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
From, from the moment we're,especially now, I mean, you get
(29:20):
into even just primary schooland there, it's kind of all
trying to channel towards thefulfillment of some purpose that
all you're trying to do is like.
Color with the crayons, youknow?
And everything seems to betrying to channel you there.
And I think in a lot of ways, ifwe want purpose to become more
(29:42):
prevalent in our society,genuine purpose in people, I
think we've gotta simplify it tosay this shouldn't be
burdensome.
Right, right.
It's, I think, I don't even.
I don't process my purpose asdoing my purpose is, is more of
a being Yeah.
You know, than, than it is, thanit is action or practical.
(30:04):
Yeah.
Uh, and then it should inform mypractical.
Mm-hmm.
But it's not, it's not that.
And I think too many times.
Um, we put that especially onhigh school, like guide.
You think of guidancecounselors, Uhhuh, what do you
want to do with your life, youknow, and you're 16 years old
and you're going, I don't know,I wanna drive my car, right?
I want to date.
(30:24):
I'm hoping to see this moviethis weekend.
You know?
Um.
That was old.
That was old school.
I don't think that's anymore.
I don't think that's what'shappening these days, but that's
what I wanted to do.
And they're asking me, what areyou gonna do with your life?
Mm-hmm.
I have no idea.
Right.
Well, I think a better questionis who do you wanna be?
Yeah.
Because my purpose is tied tothat.
(30:46):
Yes.
And that's freeing.
Yeah.
Because I can be that.
Mm-hmm.
Whether I'm employed orunemployed.
Mm-hmm.
Married or not married.
Um, family or no family.
I can be who I want to be as ahuman being.
So yeah, maybe the weight ofpurpose alone.
Leslie (31:05):
Yeah, we need to definitely take some of that
weight off because, um, that is,that has definitely been, been a
consistent theme across thispodcast is purpose doesn't have
to be this big, grand thing.
Right.
And it doesn't have to be oncein a lifetime, you know?
Yeah.
I have a purpose.
(31:26):
When I, um, come, come here forthis, for this recording, you
know?
Right.
There's purpose in all kinds ofthings.
Yeah.
And it's, um, it is a way ofbeing.
Mm-hmm.
You know, instead of doing
Adam (31:40):
well.
So let's process it through, youknow, I have a business and, um,
I think that's maybe where weget off is like, what is my, we
get off track is what is mypurpose.
Mm-hmm.
We, we automatically go to whatam I gonna achieve?
Okay.
In life, right?
Mm-hmm.
So I think it is ultimatelysemantics.
So let's work it backwards as abusiness.
(32:02):
You know, 240 Solution is, ifyou ask me what is your vision,
I.
Well, my vision's to change theworld.
Yeah.
So if you put that, you go,geez, you talk about weight,
because I'm, I mean thatlegitimately.
Leslie (32:15):
Mm-hmm.
Adam (32:15):
Right.
I don't mean change my familydynamic.
I've done that already.
Leslie (32:20):
Yeah.
Adam (32:20):
I mean, change the literal world to where they write about
what happened.
Right.
That's my vision.
Yeah.
Um, my mission then is to helpleaders elevate the value,
understand, and elevate thevalue of the human.
In their organization.
Leslie (32:37):
Yeah.
Adam (32:37):
That's my mission.
Mm-hmm.
But when you cook it down to mypurpose is to make sure everyone
I encounter feels like theymatter.
Yeah.
And that's not heavy at all,because I'm gonna go to the gas
station and I'm gonna meet aclerk who probably hasn't been
called by their first name allday long.
Yeah.
And that's so easy for me to,thanks James.
Yeah.
(32:57):
Appreciate you.
Mm-hmm.
That's my purpose.
Right.
And if I do that consistentlyover time.
I will stack that up to amass agroup of people that may never
know my name that felt like theymattered.
Yeah.
And if someone matters, theywill help someone else matter.
(33:18):
Mm-hmm.
And so for me, I take that, thathigh and lofty and weighty goal
of change the world.
Yeah.
And I ultimately translate itdown to transformed lives.
Transformed worlds.
Yeah.
All I have to be interested in.
It's the one I'm sitting with.
Right.
Because that's the one thatreally matters.
Yeah.
So I think we, we have to teach,uh, because this isn't natural.
(33:43):
Right.
Societal pressure for purpose istoo big to hope.
Our gen, our youth get this.
Yeah.
We need to teach them that.
No purpose is is simple.
Yeah.
Right.
It's.
It is understanding who you wantto be right at the end of the
day.
Yeah.
And I think we should, I thinkwe should start taking kids to
(34:08):
more funerals.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
I mean, yeah, this sounds weird.
Like that's what you're thing tothe one to say that.
What a weird to say, Adam.
I get made fun of that.
Some of my friends are like, I,I do personally enjoy funerals
more than I do weddings.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and it's a simple reason.
Uh, a funeral is a celebrationof all that a person was.
(34:32):
Yeah.
And, and I'm inspired, I move tolive differently because my end
is coming at some point.
Mm-hmm.
Whereas a wedding is thebeginning of a lot of hard work.
Yeah.
And those two things aredifferent for me.
Right.
Yeah.
Um, but in some ways, again,it's a weird encouragement, but,
you know, being inspired bypeople who did something.
Leslie (34:53):
Do
Adam (34:53):
I live my life like that?
What's gonna be said somedaywhen someone stands up there and
says, Adam Pinkerd was, I hopethey say I.
Someone who cared about people.
Right.
Yeah.
You know, and that I'm sure theywill.
Yeah.
That informs the way I live mylife.
Exactly.
So it was a bit of a tangent.
Season one,
Leslie (35:13):
we had, um, uh, someone who worked in hospice care on
the Okay.
Podcast, and she talked a lotof, she also encouraged us to
take our kids to more funeralsand to talk about death.
Yeah.
And to talk about what do I wantpeople to, how do I wanna be
remembered?
Mm-hmm.
Um, and so I'm not
Adam (35:34):
the only morbid guest you've had, is that what you're
saying?
No.
No.
Okay.
I feel like when I said that Ishould grow my hair out, dye it
black and wear a trench coat,but that's not what I mean.
I, I not death is is tragic.
Yeah.
And loss is horrible.
Uh, but there's something sobeautiful in hearing the sum
total of someone's life.
Yeah.
(35:54):
Uh, unless it didn't add up tomuch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then it's really sad.
Yeah.
So,
Leslie (36:00):
so going back to your work, the work that you do
mm-hmm.
Because you just described yourbusiness, the vision mm-hmm.
The mission, the purpose is, areyou working with your clients to
do that for them?
Are you working with them to, onthe vision, mission, and then
(36:21):
kind of the, the individualpurpose or not?
Adam (36:26):
I would say no.
Leslie (36:27):
Okay.
Adam (36:27):
Um, I'm not spending a lot of time doing that because
again, what they're asking iswe've got a good culture.
Mm-hmm.
How do we make it a greatculture?
And so I think practicallyspeaking, uh, we do a lot of
leader development.
I do a lot of coaching.
Okay.
Individual coaching.
And so as I'm working throughthose Sure.
I'm trying to help thempractically understand how do
(36:48):
you connect.
The department's purpose, the,the company's purpose to the
doing that's happening downhere.
Right.
So there's a practicalcomponent, but in, in regards to
helping them kind of rethinktheir vision, mission, and
purpose.
Definitely not, um, if somethingwere to adapt because of that
mm-hmm.
That would be great.
(37:08):
But mm-hmm.
We're not, I don't considermyself an expert in those, uh,
in those areas.
Okay.
Uh, so not, not really a focus.
Leslie (37:17):
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
So I've envisioned this,intersection of circles.
So one circle is the companypurpose or this shared purpose,
the team purpose.
Mm-hmm.
And the other is the individualpurpose.
Yeah.
And I've been wondering.
In order to accomplish ourgoals, our vision, our mission,
(37:39):
and contribute here.
Obviously the best is whenthey're totally overlapped, you
know?
Sure.
That's the best.
Yeah.
But that, you know,
Adam (37:48):
that's like a team of one.
Leslie (37:49):
That's
Adam (37:51):
right.
I mean, let's be honest, that'sgonna be one person.
Yes.
Leslie (37:55):
So, but I've been wondering is if, can I just,
could you just get.
Employees to really help connecttheir being, you know, who they
wanna be in the world mm-hmm.
To the work that they do.
(38:15):
Mm-hmm.
As a way of moving forward or doI really need to focus on this
kind of overlapping of the, ofthe two circles?
Does that make sense?
Adam (38:28):
I think so.
Um.
Ask it one more time.
I think so.
And I'm processing somethoughts.
Yeah.
So say it one more time.
Okay.
Leslie (38:37):
So as a business leader, can I accelerate my business
performance mm-hmm.
By putting more emphasis.
On the employee's purpose.
Mm-hmm.
And activating that in theirjob.
Adam (38:55):
Yes.
Leslie (38:55):
Versus the organizational purpose.
Mm-hmm.
Um, yeah.
Adam (39:02):
Yes.
I think the answer is yes, andI, well, let me say that more
confidently.
Yes.
The answer's yes.
I don't think it's, yes, I knowit's, yes.
Um, I.
So the question then becomes whydon't people do it?
Leslie (39:19):
Right?
Yes.
Adam (39:21):
Because if I pour into you to pursue and understand your
purpose, you might leave me.
Mm.
Right.
So the reluctance of a CEO orteam leader or anything to build
into people purpose that mighttake them somewhere else, right.
Is actually insecurity.
Yeah.
And so when.
(39:43):
In this world, we have to, toreally see it differently.
I, I worked in an organizationonce, uh, where I was not, at
the time, I was not a hiringmanager.
I was the head of a departmentof one.
And so I didn't have to hireanyone at that point.
Uh, but I was asked to helpinterview, uh, on some other,
(40:04):
for other departments, um, asthey were going to be making new
hires.
And I remember coming out of aninterview where I thought,
that's the person, my goodness,that is the person.
And we sat down in the debriefand one of the hiring managers
said, man, they're awesome.
They would be great, but theywon't stay.
And I thought, what a stupidreason not to hire someone.
(40:25):
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, and again, I knowthat sounds a little bit harsh,
but that's me.
Right?
If the person that I hire that'sa per a beautiful fit.
Because they bring everything weneed, but they're going to
leave, they'll make me better insix months than someone who
comes and stays for two or threeyears.
(40:46):
Mm-hmm.
And we've gotta be okay withthat.
And I don't think we aregenerally speaking.
So ultimately it requires a kindof this altruistic shift of
people leading companies to saywhat matters is that you are.
Becoming who you were alwaysintended to be.
(41:07):
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Your original created design andvalue to this world that's most
important to me.
Mm-hmm.
But it's not, it's onlyimportant to me.
If it fulfills that, which I'mtrying to do to build my wealth,
my, my prominence or whatever,that's always gonna be an
imposition to pouring intopeople's purpose.
Yeah.
(41:27):
And in part, that's why I'veprocessed to say.
If humanity's the highest goal,we have to confront that at some
point.
Mm-hmm.
And so the leaders that I'mworking with, we always, at some
point there is an intersectionto say, if it's really about
their humanity, then you can'tworry if they'll stay.
(41:47):
Right.
Because their, their success,their achieving their purpose,
fulfillment on this planet mightnot have anything to do with you
other than a brief impasse.
Mm-hmm.
To, to learn and to grow and tobe inspired, to be challenged.
But we don't see it that way.
Yeah.
I see it as what if they leaveme?
(42:10):
Mm-hmm.
And that's really shortsighted.
Leslie (42:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And yeah.
Okay.
You helped answer the questionand the thing that I've, um,
that I was thinking through.
As you were responding, wetalked earlier about who owns
it.
Mm-hmm.
And I do feel like that's asense of responsibility for the
(42:34):
leaders now hearing you mm-hmm.
Is to, um, pour into theirpeople and to have conversations
about individual purpose.
Yeah.
You know, I think back over mycareer, I have never ever been
asked.
What is my purpose in life?
(42:55):
No, never.
Adam (42:56):
You know, I've never been asked
Leslie (42:57):
and, um, and I don't know that it, it needs to even
be asked that way, but I've notbeen asked any shades
Adam (43:04):
mm-hmm.
Of
Leslie (43:05):
gray around that
Adam (43:06):
question.
Leslie (43:07):
Okay.
You know what I mean?
Adam (43:08):
Really.
I mean, not even one time youdidn't have one inspired leader
who asked Leslie, where, wheredo you want to be?
What do you wanna, I've had
Leslie (43:15):
that, but it's more in the context of like.
Where do you wanna be in thisjob?
Doing what you're doing in here?
Gotcha.
You know what I mean?
As opposed to Leslie as like ahuman on this earth.
Mm.
What do you care so much about?
What do you, you know?
Adam (43:32):
Mm-hmm.
Leslie (43:32):
It, it's, it's, it's typically been connected to the
job.
Yeah.
Um, makes, makes sense.
I, I have the privilege
Adam (43:38):
of working closely with one of the highest Chick-fil-A
franchise groups in the world.
Mm-hmm.
And they have one of theirleaders.
Um, is focused on this verything.
And he says, he says, Adam, ourpurpose as a franchise is to
wholeheartedly help people climbtheir mountain.
(43:59):
And I think that's really rare.
Leslie (44:02):
Yeah.
Adam (44:02):
And I think it's honestly why they are one of the highest
performing in the world becausethey've made their intent to
help those people that, that puton that name tag and show up at
Chick-fil-A to say, it's mypleasure.
Their mission isn't to slingchicken.
Right.
It's to help you climb yourmountain.
Right.
(44:23):
I don't know why we have to seeorganizations like that do that
and then just go, well, it worksfor them, but it won't work for
me.
Right.
But you're right.
It's not, it's not, I, I don'tthink it's a common question or
even series of questions.
That's what you're saying, likenot even shades of gray, right.
Of what's your purpose?
That's interesting.
I, but across my career, itwasn't anyone I worked for
(44:45):
asking me that.
Mm-hmm.
There were people in my lifeasking me that.
Leslie (44:49):
Yeah.
Adam (44:49):
But not, not my employer.
Leslie (44:51):
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Adam (44:54):
Huh.
Leslie (44:54):
Well, and the other thing that just occurred to me
in that story of, you know, our,you know, and our franchise at
Chick-fil-A, our purpose is tohelp people climb their
mountain.
Mm-hmm.
That, to me, that sounds so muchlike leadership.
Yeah.
You know, one of the things thatI'm coming to understand through
(45:16):
season two is that purpose isleadership.
Mm-hmm.
You know, because it is reallyabout putting myself aside Hmm.
And, and bringing this group ofpeople.
And when I do that, I care aboutthose, you know, I want what's
best for
Adam (45:37):
Yeah.
For others, you know?
So, can I ask.
Can I ask questions?
Absolutely.
Am I allowed to ask questions?
Um, do you think purpose isselfless individual purpose?
Do you think individual purposeis selfless?
Leslie (45:53):
Yeah.
So on your episode, I definedpurpose.
Mm-hmm.
And I've added to it.
Adam (45:58):
Okay, good.
Leslie (45:59):
So, um, and then I'll answer.
So I, I have defined purpose asa constant state of alignment
mm-hmm.
Between who we are.
What we do.
That's what I shared on yourepisode, right?
Which is very much about livingauthentically.
Sure.
Like, I'm gonna be who I, I'mgonna be, I'm gonna honor who I
(46:19):
am and the actions that I take,
Adam (46:21):
right?
Leslie (46:22):
The piece I added is constant state of alignment
between who I am, the work thatI do, and the difference I wanna
make in the world.
And so when I, when I addedthat, it very much is living
authentically.
Adam (46:38):
Sure.
Leslie (46:40):
For others, for a, for a, a bigger purpose.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Adam (46:46):
So what I agree with you, but what might someone who's
engaged in purposeful doingmm-hmm.
But living an authentic looklike,'cause that wouldn't be
purpose based on yourdefinition, but is there, is
there kind of an example to say,well, it might look like this.
Leslie (47:08):
Yeah, I mean, I could think of, um, people that feel
like I need to donate money, notbecause I want to donate money,
but because I want to, or I needto be on this board, this
nonprofit board.
Not because it's something thatI want to do, but because it's
(47:28):
going to add to my resume andgood pr.
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
Adam (47:32):
I see what you're saying.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So maybe then.
Purpose, genuine purpose mm-hmm.
Is selfless.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, and how do you, I mean,genuine purpose, what does that
even mean?
Yeah.
Fulfilling purpose maybe.
Yeah.
Is selfless.
Do you, do you think that ifsomeone is pursuing purpose but
(47:54):
not finding fulfillment that itis, it is.
Probably because that purpose isto, um, selfish.
Or do you think it's becausethere's an inauthenticity in
there?
Leslie (48:08):
Yeah, so I will, I'm going to, um, address one thing
first.
Okay.
And then go to that because I dothink that there is an element
of purpose that is self selfish.
Adam (48:22):
Sure.
And that makes sense.
Leslie (48:24):
That is fulfillment.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
You know what I mean?
I do this because.
It makes me feel really good,you know?
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
If there's an element of thatYeah, too, you know, that's
fair.
So there is an element of that,but I do think someone that is,
um, not getting the fulfillment,it could be that'cause,'cause
(48:49):
sometimes purpose.
Hmm.
Um, does get into the doing, youknow, I'm trying to create this
in the life, in my life, and soI've gotta do these things in
order to, and sometimes there'sa weight to that.
Mm-hmm.
Is, um, exhausting and tiringmm-hmm.
(49:10):
And all of that.
And so it, it can make you feelnot fulfilled.
Adam (49:14):
Sure.
Leslie (49:15):
Um, in the moment.
Yeah.
You know, but when you kind ofzoom out and look at it,
hopefully it does.
If it doesn't Yeah.
When you zoom out, thensomething's I think misaligned.
Adam (49:25):
Sure.
That makes sense.
I, taking it back to me, youknow, I said my purpose is, is
simplified to the point that Iwant everyone that I interact
with to feel like they matter.
Mm-hmm.
Well, that's ultimately takessome preparation.
Right.
And I think in the preparationis.
Preparing for purpose looks morelike doing Yeah.
(49:48):
For purpose and probably nobetter example than my own wor
my own life.
And I, in 2006, December of2006, I got a vision for my
life, Leslie, that changedeverything.
Mm-hmm.
I was still battling addictionat that time.
I was trying to get an educationand struggling in this process
(50:08):
and someone in the, in the room.
Was talking about being a worldchanger and that the university
produced world changers.
And uh, and then they saidbefore they left, they said one
last thing to the room and itwas, you can be a world changer.
And when this individual, hername's Stacy, when she said
this, she was looking at me, shewasn't talking to me, she was
(50:30):
talking to the room, but shemight as well have been talking
to me because I walked out ofthat room differently that night
and I thought.
I wanna be a world changer.
I believe I can change theworld.
Yeah.
Which is so foolish because Iwas at the end of a 13 year
struggle with addiction.
My marriage was falling apartand here I am, audaciously
(50:51):
thinking I'm gonna change theworld.
But it required something of mein that moment.
And I think there was a, therewas purpose in me birthed, and
then I had the obligation.
To explore, how do I fulfillthat purpose?
What does that actually mean forme and what's true of me?
(51:12):
Yeah.
Because as long as it's anauthentic, it's exhausting.
Yeah.
Because it has to be inalignment.
And that's what you're saying.
And I think that preparation forme,'cause I went from that
moment, I went 14 yearsstraight, pursuing more and more
education.
To today in doing what I do, Ihave two master's degrees in
leadership and my doctoralcoursework done in
(51:33):
organizational leadershipbecause of that moment.
Yeah.
And my purpose then, which wasbirth in a really, in a really
immature and unformed state, wasenough for me to effectively
draw back the bow.
And I think for 14 years I hadbeen drawing back the bow.
(51:55):
I.
And I think when I stepped outin 2021 to say, I'm ready and
I'm gonna start my business, itwas me pulling the trigger to
release that arrow.
Yeah.
To say, I have been pouring intomyself to do this, and now I
have the freedom back to whereyou started.
Purpose gives us freedom.
(52:17):
I now have the freedom tocompetently and confidently help
people see that they matter.
And no matter what context, Isit from the gas station to the
boardroom.
Yeah.
Uh, I have equipped myself, ifyou will, to stand with anyone
in any conversation and be avalue add to them.
(52:43):
Yeah.
And that took from the verymoment, a seed that took
watering, it took, it took somepruning, it took a lot of things
along the way.
But ultimately it, uh, itflourished and it came something
now that I hope is bringingvalue to the world.
Yeah.
And uh, and it started bybelieving that I could, when I
(53:07):
was standing in a season where Ihad very little value for
myself, let alone value to theworld.
Yeah.
And, uh, I think some beautifulthings can come out of some
really rocky soil.
Leslie (53:19):
Yeah.
And
Adam (53:19):
I am a living testament to that.
Leslie (53:21):
Yeah.
We might have to have you backto dig into that because it's a
long story.
The whole fear, like fear andlike how do you get started and,
you know, all that, all of thatis something that it holds so
many people back.
Yeah.
Um, and so we don't have timefor that today.
(53:41):
Right.
But yeah.
Yeah.
We'll, we'll be back hopefully.
Well,
Adam (53:44):
I, I'm, I'm an open book and I think there's a lot in
that.
And the simple answer is do itafraid.
Yeah.
That's, um, it's the only way todo it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Fear's an illusion, in myopinion.
Leslie (53:58):
Yes.
So,
Adam (54:01):
but yeah.
Leslie (54:02):
Well, we've talked about a lot.
Mm-hmm.
Let's take a leader out therewho's listening, who may mm-hmm.
Struggling to get purpose intheir team, or, to be.
Working together towards ashared purpose?
Any advice for that type ofleader?
Adam (54:18):
Yeah, the advice I would give is determine what the
purpose is.
Determine what that, that thingthat you're trying to, to
achieve.
Because in a business, the.
You're in business to, to solvea problem, to close a gap, and
ultimately to be profitable inthe process.
(54:38):
Mm-hmm.
But whatever that problem is, isto define it and define it
clearly, and then say it, say itemphatically and, and be okay
with people saying, that's notme.
I, I think what holds us backfrom saying this is where we're
(54:58):
going.
I know the way I.
Is that we want everyone that'scurrently with us to believe us
and to go to, but they mightnot.
And so I think it's, it'slooking, my advice is look in
the mirror, become okay, firstof the fact that this is what
we're gonna do and if peoplethat are currently with me
(55:20):
aren't in the pursuit, that'sokay.
Yeah.
And I think that has to start inthe mirror looking in your own
eyes and asking if you're okaywith that.
Because it's not as simple asjust saying it.
Right.
Because what will keep you fromstaying that course is
insecurity.
That those who I think arenecessary in that journey might
(55:43):
not be with me.
Yeah.
In, in six months or a year orwhatever.
And we've gotta let that go.
Um, and uh, and just run afterwhat, what we know matters.
'cause that's the alignmentyou're talking about.
Yeah.
And, uh, nothing will kill a CEOfaster than misalignment.
Mm-hmm.
They'll burn out in a, in amonth, you know.
(56:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, uh, that would be mine.
Look in the mirror.
Decide what it is.
Say it with confidence, clarity,and emphasis, and just run.
Yeah.
And let the people get behindit.
Leslie (56:15):
All right.
You heard him.
Adam (56:16):
All right.
Leslie (56:17):
Anything else left unsaid?
Adam (56:19):
I don't think so.
Other than thank you.
Uh, you know, you, you joined usand we had, we got into some of
these bits and.
And got to hear what you'redoing and now to be a
participant in the research thatyou're doing.
Uh, I appreciate it and haveenjoyed the conversation.
Yeah.
So thank you.
And
Leslie (56:35):
I'll drop a link to our episode on Leading Adam in the
show notes.
Adam (56:39):
Awesome.
That'd be great.
Leslie (56:40):
Wonderful.
Thank you for being on PurposeProject.
Adam (56:43):
Thanks, Leslie.
I am walking away from seasontwo with a deeper understanding
of purpose in the workplace, onething has become crystal clear
to me, and Adam touches on thisin our conversation here as
well, and that is that in orderfor purpose to live within the
(57:03):
workplace, the business has totake the initiative to help each
employee connect their personalpurpose to the work.
And each individual employee hasto participate in this process
as well.
Thank you for joining me thisseason as we've explored what
(57:27):
purpose in the workplace reallymeans.
Until next time, stay connected,stay curious, and keep living on
purpose.
Leslie (57:40):
Purpose Project is brought to you for education and
for entertainment purposes.
This podcast is not intended toreplace the advice that you
would receive from a licensedtherapist or doctor or any other
qualified professional.
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