March 11, 2025 • 43 mins
In this episode of Purpose Project, host Leslie Pagel explores the role of purpose in the workplace with Jill Canada, a sales leader in healthcare. Jill shares her perspectives on how purpose fuels performance and the importance of being genuine and authentic. She emphasizes the concept of being a 'lifter' rather than a 'leaner' in both personal and professional settings. Jill discusses her professional journey, the impact of healthcare technology in patient care, and the critical role of purpose in sales leadership. She also provides insights into aligning personal purpose with professional roles and underscores the significance of taking care of employees to achieve business results.
00:00 Introduction to Purpose Project
00:51 Meet Jill Canada: Personal and Professional Background
03:05 Defining Life's Purpose: Lifters vs. Leaners
08:23 Purpose in the Healthcare Workforce
13:37 Purpose-Driven Sales Leadership
26:27 Aligning Team and Individual Purpose
32:34 Advice for Employees and Leaders on Finding Purpose
41:26 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Purpose Project is a research study on the topic of life's purpose. You can follow along in the making of Purpose Project:
Instagram: @purpose.project
LinkedIn: @purposeproject-media
TikTok: @purpose.project
Captions are auto-generated.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Welcome to purpose project.
I'm your host, Leslie Pagel.
And this season we are exploringthe role of purpose in the
workplace, how purpose shows upacross different roles,
industries, and organizations.
Our guest on the show today isJill Canada.
Jill is a sales leader inhealthcare, and she brings a
(00:29):
fresh perspective on success.
Leadership and purpose.
We dive into how purpose fuelsperformance and the importance
of being genuine and authenticwhen it comes to living out our
purpose in our lives and inbusiness.
(00:49):
Let's get started.
Leslie (00:51):
Jill, thank you for being here with us on Purpose
Project.
I'm really looking forward tohaving a conversation about.
How purpose shows up in theworkplace.
Me too.
Thanks for inviting me.
Absolutely.
Before we dive into the topic ofpurpose at work, let's get to
know you a little bit.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself, both personally and
(01:13):
professionally.
Jill (01:14):
So personally, I am married to my college
sweetheart, Andy.
We've been married for 20 years.
We have three wonderful kidsthat are age 17, 15 and nine,
two girls and a boy.
And, um, you know when I thinkabout my personal life, we'll
get into professional next, butwhat's the title that's most
(01:34):
important to me, it isdefinitely being a mom and also
a wife.
So, that's more important thansenior executive at any
organization and that is, youknow, what my world revolves
around.
And then outside of my directfamily, you know, also, um, an
aunt and a daughter and all ofthe other things.
And when I think about friends,I really choose to invest in a
(01:58):
small group of people that beable to support and love and,
put the appropriate time andattention in them, which means,
sometimes a smaller circle, butpeople that I can truly show up
for but, um, if I think aboutwhat is core to me as a person
as well, I just believe in notinvesting in relationships
(02:18):
equally.
And to think about, to be ableto invest fully in certain
relationships that are verymeaningful to me.
So that's a little bit about mepersonally.
And then professionally I amwith a startup now.
It's my second company that is astartup.
But also spent some time infortune 100 companies.
(02:38):
So done both the large company,a large strategic and startup,
environment, and then always asa sales person or a commercial
leader.
Leslie (02:46):
Okay, nice.
So I heard a lot of, love andcare for the people in your life
that are close to you and,working in a sales role.
For a variety of size companies,yes.
Love it.
Thank you for sharing that.
One question I ask everyone onthe show is, do you have your
(03:10):
own life's purpose?
And if so, what is it?
Jill (03:14):
So when I think about purpose, I think about things
that are, you know, a long termgoal and usually tying to
passions or strengths that theperson may have.
So if I were to say a life'spurpose for me, I want to first
say this is, aspirational andnot something that I am perfect
at, but something that I amworking on because it's very
(03:36):
important to me.
And that is the concept of beinga lifter, not a leaner.
You may not have heard thisexact terminology before, and so
I'm happy to define it.
Love it.
Um, starts with a poem by EllaWheeler Wilcox, about lifters
versus leaners.
So let me describe what each ofthem are, and then can explain
(03:58):
why it's part of my purpose.
So we'll start with the negativein this case, which is the
leaners.
So the leaners are the peoplethat are Um, if you take a
sports analogy, in a bike race,they're the people that are
always drafting behind someoneelse and then never taking their
turn out front.
So, um, In that specificanalogy, it is harder to be the
(04:20):
one out front breaking the wind.
It is a lot easier.
So you can go the same speed ina bike race with less effort if
you are the person draftingbehind that person out in front.
So if you show up 100 percent ofthe time as the one drafting and
never as the one leaning orleading, that is a leaner.
Um, they're also, I'm sure thereare people.
(04:41):
And at some point in your life,you've worked with either,
professionally or personally.
Um, there's someone that's aconstant victim.
So these are the people thatleave you feeling worse than
when you first interacted withthem or someone that, has a use
for you.
They come into your life, theypop up when they need something
(05:02):
and never really with that offerof what can they give back in
return.
So that's to the negative side.
Um, unfortunately there's more.
leaners than there are liftersin the world.
Generally, we see some of thesebehaviors a little more often.
So what's a lifter?
So lifter is someone in thebusiness world that's going to
(05:23):
show up and put their, they'regoing to shoulder the weight of
themselves and then also othersaround them.
They're going to take moreaccountability than others
around them.
They're going to go out front inthe world of startups.
you just have to jump in andlead before success is
(05:44):
guaranteed.
Thinking of in a meeting where,um, are you the person that sits
back and waits till someonepresents an idea?
And then a, the most seniorperson in the room weighs in
either with their Pleasure ordispleasure with the idea, you
know, is it that person you jumpon liking or not liking the idea
(06:06):
After the most senior person inthe room has spoken or did you
take the lead and you know Takea stand.
Leslie (06:12):
Yeah,
Jill (06:13):
or are you the one in the arena getting a job done?
And playing the game, or you,the spectator in the stands,
judging and critiquing whatthose playing the game are
doing.
Or, I think of it as really a,um, a chef or a food critic.
So in a past business, we talkedabout this, of, hey, we have no
(06:34):
shortage of food critics aroundhere.
There's plenty of people to talkabout what's wrong with a deal,
and why it has hair on it, andwhat's imperfect about it.
What we need more of are thechefs.
It's so much harder to create,and it's so much easier to sit
back and judge what others havecreated.
So, to be clear, this goes toboth personal and professional
(06:56):
life, and in no way am I sayingI have this nailed, and I show
up perfectly, and I'm always alifter versus a leaner, but it
is something that I'm veryconscious about, and I think
about, how do I do my best to,Most of the time stay in that
lifter category and just bereally conscious of not, sucking
(07:16):
value from other peopleconsistently.
And when I need something fromsomeone, when I need to lean on
somebody else to make sure thatI find ways to, pay them back in
other ways of value.
So what do I have to offer tothem, um, for whatever
assistance I'm needing fromthem?
Leslie (07:32):
Yeah.
I love that the, the visualsthat you put on both and the
emphasis of being reallyintentional about being a lifter
and when you do need to lean.
Recognizing of a responsibilityto give back in some way.
Absolutely.
Yes.
(07:53):
The world does need morelifters.
Yes.
Yep.
It, um, as you were talkingabout the lifters, I just kept
thinking.
Of the word courage, like ittakes, it takes courage
sometimes to, to be a lifter.
Jill (08:08):
It does.
It's, it takes courage and it'stiring.
It's harder work.
So there's no shortcuts withbeing a lifter.
There are shortcuts with being aleaner.
Right.
Yeah.
Leslie (08:19):
Yeah.
Well, thank you for sharing yourpurpose with us.
Of course.
Of course.
So let's shift gears and talkabout the workforce.
Season two is all about howpurpose shows up in the
workforce.
And when you look at your.
experience, across your careeror just where it is today.
How do you see purpose showingup in the workforce?
Jill (08:41):
Yeah.
So for me, I am in healthcare,so it's pretty easy to have a
tie to purpose, you know, thecompany's mission or purpose is
just more straightforward for mebecause of that area that I work
in.
Right.
So if I think about, when Iworked for GE Healthcare, there
was a technology calledautomated breast ultrasound that
(09:03):
I worked with the health systemon.
And that was, adjunctivescreening where, for patients
with dense breasts.
So sometimes you get a cleanmammogram, meaning your
mammogram is negative and you'retold everything's fine.
And those with dense breasts,it's like trying to find a
snowball in a snowstorm.
So you need additionalscreening.
(09:24):
And automated breast ultrasoundprovided that second look and
would find cancers.
missed on traditional mammo.
It's, it's rare, it's a smallpercentage, but it's still, if
you think about, like, what thatdoes for that patient and that
family, if you can catch diseaselike cancer earlier and possibly
change their outcome, Right.
(09:47):
that purpose and mission isright there in front of your
face and you wake up every daythinking, if I can implement
this for a health system and wecan find Five cancers you have
made a huge difference in fivepeople's lives,
Leslie (10:00):
right?
Jill (10:00):
So in health care, it's just so easy to use a A specific
example for me personally, Imentioned my family at the
beginning and my nine year oldson, I had him when I was
working for, GE Healthcare aswell and covered all of the
different, P& Ls or profit andloss centers of the business and
including a maternal infant carebusiness.
(10:29):
Spreadsheets, but I didn't knowthat technology extremely well
until my son was born nine weeksearly and That technology so in
combination with the health careproviders that took care of him
kept him alive And nothing ismore humbling than to know that
you individually can't do thatThere was nothing I personally
(10:52):
could do to save my son when hewas most vulnerable But an
amazing team of healthcareprofessionals utilizing some of
the technology that my companymade gave him an incredible
outcome.
And now he's nine and playsfootball and basketball and
lacrosse and is healthy and hasno lasting effects of
(11:13):
prematurity.
And that is directly because ofthe care he received.
So, in healthcare, it's neverfar.
Patients are always top of mind.
So, I'll never think about thatbusiness in the same way.
And it really came to life, andI'll never forget the patient
experience.
So, in other technologies I'vecommercialized since then, or
(11:36):
worked on since then, I may nothave that same personal story,
but I always think about Whatwe're doing and how it relates
to that patient and how are wesolving a problem for
caregivers?
how are we making that patient'slife or experience better and
There is a direct tie to befound there, right?
Have you always
Leslie (11:56):
been in health care?
Yes, I never said okay.
Okay,
Jill (11:59):
and there's and that also It's worth saying so there's
going to be other peoplelistening.
Maybe they're an accountant ormaybe they're an engineer.
There is always a a tie topurpose, but it doesn't have to
be found solely in your job.
So this is something, you know,again, it's easy for me being in
(12:19):
healthcare, but there's tons ofother wildly important areas
that you might be doing at work.
And maybe that line isn't quiteas clear as it is for
specifically what I do, but itis there.
And then there's alsoopportunities outside of what
you do for work that you can.
Um, tie to your life's purpose.
Yes.
Leslie (12:39):
Yeah.
That is one thing that Iobserved it was season one,
which was all about people thathave clarity in their life's
purpose and they're activelypursuing it.
That pursuit did not alwaysequate to a paycheck.
Yes.
Absolutely.
So sometimes it does happenoutside of work and work has its
(13:01):
purpose, but it might not beyour life's purpose.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Yeah, Okay.
So purpose shows up in theworkplace for you because it's
ingrained in healthcare.
Yes.
It's just the nature of theindustry of healthcare.
It really is, um, about caringfor the health of patients.
(13:25):
And in doing that, that's verypurpose driven.
Also, connection to your son.
Yes.
A personal connection there andthe impact that it had on you.
Yes.
Okay, let's talk about as asales leader.
How do you use purpose in yourrole as a sales
Jill (13:46):
leader?
Leslie (13:47):
Yes.
Jill (13:48):
So when I think about, um, what is our, my team's purpose.
The R& D team expect will solvesignificant problems, um, for
patients and caregivers.
So, The rest of the team isdoing their spot and building
incredible technology that webelieve will make a significant
(14:11):
difference.
What does that mean for my team?
That means I feel the weight ofthe world on my shoulders
because it's our job tocommercialize it and to find a
way to help health systems buyand adopt that technology.
So the world of health care isunfortunately littered with a
(14:34):
lot of really amazing clinicalideas.
that didn't come to fruitionbecause the right economic
argument or factors weren'tthere.
So that's what I spend my timethinking about, is how do we
take what is, let's assume,amazing technology that works.
Because that's what the rest ofthe team is doing, and doing so
(14:55):
beautifully.
So then my team and I have totake that technology and find a
way to get it into the hands ofcaregivers that are going to
utilize it, and then there'spatients that benefit from that.
So that's how I, spend my timethinking about it and, the rest
of the team has done their partand now my team has to do our
part and we have to, have that,um, North Star and mission show
(15:20):
up so that we can bring thisgreat technology to life.
Leslie (15:24):
Yeah.
So I hear when you're, when youtalk about this, it's like
you're looking at the collectiveof the business.
Yep.
And recognizing each area of thebusiness has our responsibility
and our, our responsibility as asales team.
is to get this technology intothe hands of the people that
(15:47):
need it.
Absolutely.
So that the company can fulfillits
Jill (15:52):
purpose.
Right.
And if there is no, anotherthing we say in healthcare often
is, um, there does have to bemargin.
You do have to sell things.
So sometimes it's like a dirtyword to talk about sales, but it
is, if there's no margin, thenthere's no mission.
And that is just a fact.
So, and we do have to figure outa way, you know, nobody sells or
(16:15):
adopts anything unless the valuethat we are providing is greater
than the cost that that customeris going to pay.
So usually if there's somethingthat you're going to buy, there
is some type of pain point thatis whether it's, you know, In
healthcare, whether it'sworkflow or it's, um, clinical
care, it could be any number ofthings.
But there's some type of painthat makes you want to or need
(16:37):
to buy something.
And then we, as the company,have to deliver more value than
the cost of that product orservice.
It's just, it's a simpleequation.
And if you're not doing that,then they're going to go with
one of their other hundredpriorities that they have lined
up that they could be usingprecious, you know, scarce
resources for.
Leslie (16:55):
Right, right.
Yes.
I like that.
margin for what was it?
Jill (17:01):
If there's no margin, there's no mission.
So it's something you hear a lotof, um, nonprofit health systems
talk about.
Um, but it is true.
So it is, you know, and it can'tbe a company's mission.
It can't be their purpose tomake money, right?
That's not enough.
Yeah.
It's, it's a by product and thatis something that.
(17:25):
You know, but it can't be, itdoesn't stand alone.
So if you say, like, ourcompany's mission is to make
money, that's a 100 percentchance you will fail.
Because that, that's not enough.
It's not going to motivate youremployee base.
Customers are not going to beinterested in that.
Um, it doesn't start there.
That is a byproduct of doingeverything else right.
Leslie (17:45):
Right.
Okay.
Because I was, I was wonderingas a sales leader, if you have
had.
Members on your team that aremaybe more motivated by the
sale, the commissions that mightcome with the sale, than they
are the purpose.
(18:08):
Well, one of you have, is that athing that you've had experience
with two different kind ofmotivators?
Yeah.
Jill (18:16):
So I think it doesn't have to be either or.
So if you think about it, thoseshould be aligned incentives.
So if you believe in the problemyou are solving and the product
that you are therefore selling,that means if you are selling
more than you are helping Morepeople, right?
So if we think about, you know,how do I fundamentally think
(18:36):
about selling?
It's another I guess maybe myother life's mission should be
Increasing the brand of thosethat sell because you know,
there's such a negativeconnotation with sales So nobody
wants to grow up and be a salesperson or sales leader and
nobody wants to be sold to youbut if you think about like my
view of selling It's notselling, it is helping people
(19:00):
buy.
So there's a mentor, a long timementor of mine, Dan Adams, who
trained me early on, very earlyin my career on um, sales and
sales process and just, youknow, long selling cycle capital
equipment, how to do that.
And he would always say thatyou're helping people that
you're not selling right?
And if you're interested in along term Relationship with a
(19:23):
client the absolute worst thingyou could ever do is to sell
them something They don't needso You go back to roles that
I've had where I have the wholeportfolio of the business which
might be hundreds of products orsolutions The best thing you can
do is to say, if you're not theright fit, to call it exactly
(19:46):
that.
Up to and including, possiblyeven giving your competitor's
contact information.
If there, if someone else is abetter fit, if you're interested
in having, a 10 year workingrelationship with a client, and
the biggest way to erode trustwould be shoving in a sale that
doesn't solve their problem orneed And that would guarantee
(20:07):
you're gonna lose, the next tenso, you know back to your
question of is It either or?
If your product or solutionsolves the client problem, we
should all be happy if there'smore adoption of that and the
incentives are generally inalignment.
Leslie (20:25):
Yes.
Okay.
Okay.
So I hear that.
Being purpose driven helps youincrease your own personal
commissions, too.
Yep, it can.
They don't
Jill (20:38):
have to be working against each other.
So, I mean, in theory, thoseshould be in alignment.
Leslie (20:43):
Yeah.
Do you see, sales leaders, orsales representatives, that, are
more purpose driven than others,and if so, do their outcomes
differ?
Jill (20:58):
So I think there's a higher percentage in healthcare,
and again, I've only been inhealthcare.
Right.
But most that I work with inhealthcare are really committed
to whatever their solution is.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
And they have that.
patient impact as a North Star.
So I do see a strong tie topurpose in healthcare sales.
(21:22):
Okay.
Leslie (21:23):
Okay.
So I'm, I'm definitely hearinghealthcare, it's just a part,
purpose is a part of thebusiness.
It is, in my opinion.
Because of that, are thereprograms or communications or
initiatives that, that you orthe business works on to help
(21:43):
people connect to purpose or toremind them of purpose?
Do you have to do those things?
Jill (21:49):
Yeah, so I think it, is situational depending on
whatever we are trying toimplement.
So if I used that, um, densebreast screening program example
earlier, so that would be a,hey, here is our north star.
Our north star is we are tryingto find cancers that are not
found in mammo and diagnosecancer earlier.
(22:12):
So if that's our North Star,then we're building everything
around that.
So why does it matter if atimeline slips?
It matters because you mightmiss, someone might have come in
that day that just had the mammoscreening, that doesn't have
additional screening, and maybeyou didn't find their cancer.
So that just becomesexistential.
(22:34):
Right.
So if you really believe in whatyou're doing, then you're
Everything else follows fromthere, and a delay in that
project timeline isn't just asimple delay, it is you are
delaying what you set out to do,and that matters.
Um, and I'll give one othersomewhat, counterintuitive
(22:57):
example, which is another earlycareer mentor of mine named
Jason Crew.
imparted in me the importanceof, um, the order of operations
of how you take care of people.
So he would say, if you asksomeone in the business, Hey,
(23:17):
what do you, who do you putfirst?
Um, everyone would say it's ourcustomers.
Of course, like customers comefirst and Jason's advice.
And now I fully understand thisis It's actually not.
So who you put first is yourteam.
And if you take care of yourteam and your team feels
empowered and they feelsupported and they feel tied
(23:40):
into the purpose or the mission,Then they are generally going to
show up better at work and bemore loyal and be, happy with
what they do and feel like theyare something bigger than
themselves.
So you take care of your teamfirst.
And then what does your team do?
(24:00):
They're going to take care ofthe customers.
The customer is actually secondin this equation.
And, again, soundscounterintuitive, but your team
can't take care of theircustomers if they're Running
around in fear and you justcan't fake Happiness and loving
the company it's going to comeacross as inauthentic So if you
(24:22):
don't take care of that teamfirst that team is not going to
take care of that customer andif you think about it third back
to like you just you can't builda company around a Hey, I want
to make money or making a profitis my company's purpose.
It sounds like a simple formula,but it must be genuine and
authentic.
So this can't be a, Oh, I'mgoing to do all these things
(24:44):
with the express purpose thatit's going to increase business
results.
It's doing it for the rightreasons and the right thing.
But if you do take care of yourteam first, that team takes care
of those customers, the businessresults will naturally follow.
Leslie (24:59):
Love that.
Yes.
Well, and as an employee, don'twe want to feel cared for,
supported in our work in apsychologically safe environment
so that we can be a, lifter.
Yes, absolutely.
So that
Jill (25:14):
everyone could be a lifter in business.
Absolutely, and I justfundamentally believe I've been
in all types of organizationsand sometimes, the whole
organization doesn't have,sometimes it's like individual
manager specific.
But, I just fundamentallybelieve people do their best
work when they are supported.
You have the accountability foryour decisions.
(25:34):
But if you're supported and feelpsychologically safe, I
fundamentally feel like you dobetter work than with the
reverse.
also spent time on teams andorganizations that are more
paranoid and believe in beatingpeople down to get the best
results.
And to me, that just isn't whereyou're going to get your your
best work, right?
But you again, it has to.
You have to do it for the rightreasons.
(25:56):
Otherwise, any lack of beinggenuine or authentic gets
figured out and found, and thenit'll be counterproductive to
what you're trying to
Leslie (26:03):
do.
Well, yeah, because you createsome distrust there,
Jill (26:07):
and as they say with trust, it, I think there's a
saying of it, arrives on footand flees on horseback.
It's so hard to build trust, butyou can break trust in an
instant.
Yeah.
Ten years of building trust canbe gone in a minute based on,
one bad decision.
So, how do we avoid those typesof situations?
Leslie (26:27):
Yeah, so you lead a team of sales reps.
I'm, I'm over here thinking,okay, we each have an individual
purpose, the company haspurpose, team has purpose.
Do you, do you haveconversations with, with your
individuals on your team?
I'm imagining a one on ones orin team settings about the topic
(26:50):
of purpose.
And if so, Is it more aboutcompany purpose, team purpose,
individual, all of them?
How does that look?
Jill (26:59):
I would say, I haven't every time asked about purpose.
It's a great, it's somethingI'll incorporate into my, one on
ones going forward, but I havealways thought about how to
individually manage employees.
And so talk about a differentway that that shows up in the
workplace.
(27:20):
And that is, making sure thatyou're helping them with their
career.
in a way that works for them andnot in what you assume works for
you.
So there is, um, just otherterminology that I really
believe in.
Um, so Kim Scott is an authorthat, talked about rock stars
(27:41):
versus superstars, and I won'tgo into it too much, but both
very high performingindividuals.
In her words, A rock star issomeone that is perfectly
content in their job.
Their life purpose may beoutside of their professional
life.
So maybe they're a customerservice representative by day,
(28:01):
and they are the best one youhave in your company, but maybe
their life purpose is to singopera, and that's what they want
to do.
And so the best for them is tobe able to do their job, do it
incredibly well.
And maybe they want to leave atfive o'clock and go home and
they want to practice operabecause that's what's meaningful
(28:23):
for them.
And that is their life purpose.
So respecting what a rock starwants to do, which is they don't
want your job.
They don't want your boss's job.
They want to be incredible atthe job that they have.
and not necessarily be on asteep career trajectory.
So then what's the other side?
(28:43):
The other side is superstars.
They are on a more steep growthtrajectory.
There isn't a right or wrong.
And they are anxious to, youknow, move up and get promoted
and grow as fast as possible.
So again, just, just difference.
But you want to be careful notto manage.
One or make assumptions aboutpeople and then also just as a
(29:03):
leader to know that it's notwritten in permanent marker.
So in my own world, I've been inboth statuses.
So since we talked about my sonearlier when he was born, um,
the last thing I would have everwanted for my employer to do at
the time was talk to me about adifferent promotion with more
work stress at the time that Ijust wanted him to live.
(29:27):
So they allowed me to have thatflexibility and do that and just
be excellent at the job I wasdoing until such time that I was
ready to take on additionalresponsibility.
So, um, I'll incorporate thepurpose question more going
forward, but I thinkunderstanding, it sometimes
naturally comes out when youunderstand what does that,
(29:47):
what's meaningful to thatemployee.
And just taking away your ownpersonal bias.
Leslie (29:53):
Okay, so I love this rock star versus superstar and
Understanding that Everyone canbe and Both of those categories
throughout their career.
Absolutely.
And it's about seeking tounderstand from the employees
perspective which category theyare in.
(30:14):
Or want to be in.
Exactly.
What's important to them,
Jill (30:17):
not what's important to you, but putting it back into
the employees camp.
What's important to them.
Leslie (30:21):
Yes, okay.
So, getting to know people in apersonal way, you're going to
start to understand what theyvalue, what they like, and, um,
and bringing that into theworkforce.
Most certainly.
Why, why do you feel thatpurpose is, important in
business?
I think
Jill (30:42):
businesses having purpose is critical.
So it is feeling like somethingbigger than yourself.
So it is important for alignmentfrom leadership down to
individual contributors, and ifyou don't have that alignment,
all sorts of challenges come up.
So, a tie to purpose, mission,having alignment, standing for
(31:05):
something.
I think it can also, when doneperfectly, this doesn't happen
in every scenario.
But it can also be a competitivedifferentiator if it's
meaningful.
And then there's also the flipside.
So if you don't have purpose inbusiness and the company is not
aligned, then business resultsare going to show from that.
(31:25):
And then also, um, I think oneof the other challenges is just
in execution.
So it sounds so easy in blackand white.
You can have a great purpose ormission and vision statement,
but if your actions aren'tmatching up to those words or
stated purpose, and it'sapparent for others to see, then
(31:48):
that is certainly challenging.
And you lose that trust and thegoodwill.
And, employees and customersbeing willing to give you the
benefit of the doubt.
If actions and words aren'taligning, then that, is
problematic.
But again, the inverse is true.
So when all those things are inalignment and you're, as we
(32:09):
talked about, you're taking careof the team first and the
customers, and then the businessresults are really going to
follow.
And it's, everything is so mucheasier if there is alignment
starting at the top.
Leslie (32:20):
And purpose creates that.
Absolutely it does.
Love that.
Um I'm envisioning some peoplelistening to this.
Let's take this from a coupledifferent perspectives.
Let's take it from the employeeperspective first.
Someone's watching this, doesn'ta connection to purpose in their
job.
Any advice for them?
Yeah.
(32:40):
So I
Jill (32:40):
think it is, it just doesn't have to come from your
job.
So there are jobs like minewhere it's easy to see, there's
equally many amazing careers inthis world that might not have
that very direct tie to your ownlife's purpose.
And so then you get it outsideof work.
It sounds so much harder than itis.
(33:03):
But if I think of, some of thebest examples in my life with
this, so.
My own dad had an amazing careerin finance with Lily, but his
purpose was not to be a greatfinancial manager and asset to
the company.
It was so much more, and hedefinitely believed in, you
know, gifts of service toothers, and so he voted with his
(33:24):
time and volunteered and gavefinancial resources in a way
that really filled his cup.
So, um, You can't pour from anempty cup, as they say, but
sometimes people feel like theirjob has to provide everything,
including their purpose.
And I think it's almost easierwhen those aren't so
(33:47):
inextricably tied, because theother thing is, there's going to
be job changes, and sometimesthose job changes are
involuntary.
Sometimes you lose a job, andwhen that happens, if you're
everything is that job,including your life's purpose
and you feel lost, that would bemuch harder to take besides the
(34:08):
obvious stress of having, youknow, losing a job.
So to me, great if they align.
I don't think it's that way forthe majority of people.
So, don't not choose a career ordon't stress out about or leave
a career.
If your day job doesn't providethat.
life purpose fulfillment, thereare ways to get it outside of
(34:28):
work.
And honestly, when I think aboutthe ways that I volunteer in my
own time outside of work, it'sdoing things completely
different than my day job, whichis fun and healthy and.
energizing.
So, doing things likevolunteering in the children's
ministry at church.
That's so different from my dayjob.
(34:48):
But if I were a teacher, thatmay not be what I want to do
because it's what I do all thetime.
Right.
So they probably, they mightwant to volunteer on their
production team and do somethingcompletely unrelated to use a
different skill set than they doin their daily life.
Love it.
Leslie (35:03):
Okay.
So you don't need it in yourjob.
You really
Jill (35:07):
don't.
Leslie (35:07):
You really don't.
Yes.
Okay.
So that's the employee.
What about from a leader'sperspective?
Leading a team.
any advice for bringing purposeinto the team dynamic?
Jill (35:19):
I think it is critical because there has to be
something, um, bigger thanyourself.
And again, just chasing businessresults alone is not going to
get it done.
So what is your specificbringing down to individual
teams level?
Is there a mantra?
Is there a specific goal?
But there has to be something torally that team around that is
(35:43):
bigger than themself.
And it's amazing the resultsthat can be achieved when
everybody is You know, rowing inthe same direction at the same
speed.
So, I'm going to use anothersports example.
If you think of, a crew team,that is what, that's how they
get the results they do becauseof that perfect, in sync timing,
synchronization.
(36:04):
And that's what Matters.
Yes.
So having the team be focused ona tangible, specific goal, or
again, it could be a mantra.
It just depends on thesituation.
Um, but having the team allaligned is going to produce
really incredible results.
Love it.
Any other advice?
(36:24):
Um, I would say, Don't be afraidof the hard work that being a
lifter So, if I look back at mycareer, there are some of the
time periods of work that I'mmost proud of also happened to
be time periods where I wasputting in grueling hours, and
(36:48):
the problem we were after wasreally hard, and there were
headwinds, and there were somany things that were difficult,
yet when I look back on thattime period, I think, That was
one of the most fulfilling teamsor time periods that I've ever
been a part of and I think itcomes down to Were you focused?
(37:09):
Do you have great people aroundyou?
Were you focused on a commongoal?
And if you were those gruelinghours and all of the hardships
that go into it They just fadeaway and that's not what I
remember.
What I remember is How we serveda particular client and what a
difference we made and whenyou're working with incredible
(37:34):
people and Getting stuff done.
Then that's what you rememberright instead of the hours that
it took to get there
Leslie (37:43):
Yeah, so be lifters.
Yes, because it brings joy andfulfillment maybe not in that
moment always but
Jill (37:54):
It's so much more fulfilling.
So if you think about it fromthe standpoint of if you're on a
team but didn't contribute tothat team's results, are you
really gonna be, yeah, you mightget the, in the sales world, you
know, commission for it.
(38:14):
But is that meaningful to you ifyou know that you didn't play a
part in someone else did thework?
I don't think it is.
So I want to earn it.
The other core of a liftermentality is it's not a zero sum
game.
So I don't need you to lose forme to win.
(38:38):
Right.
And that is.
So often misunderstood or underappreciated.
And there are ways if I thinkabout my girls are in all star
cheer and it's very meaningfulto them.
And their coach always talksabout training athletes from the
inside out.
And that's what's mostimportant.
(38:59):
So for those that don't knowabout all star cheer, sometimes
you win because another teamThey had a mistake, and they had
a stunt fall, or they had atumbling fall, and they get a
deduction for that.
So, they are, their coaches arealways preaching about, you want
to beat people at their best.
So, you don't want to cheer forsomeone else, and I know this
(39:21):
sounds crazy, but it happens atthese cheer competitions.
You see parents excited whenanother team falls, because it
gives their team a greaterchance of winning.
And that's just fundamentallythe wrong way to look at it.
And you want to be good enoughto, in this case, beat someone
at their best.
And not, I win, you lose.
(39:42):
And that's just the, that's arecipe for non fulfilling short
term results and not what anyoneshould aspire to.
Leslie (39:51):
Yeah.
Love that.
Yes.
Well, and I love that they're,uh, focused on that because
that's a life skill.
It's
Jill (40:01):
amazing.
It's what, why.
For me, as a parent with threekids in youth sports, they're
not in youth sports becausethey're going to get a college
scholarship.
They're in youth sports becausethey are going to get life
lessons that happen as part ofbeing on a team that they're
(40:21):
going to use when they'reprofessionals and are on a team.
So pretty much any, there's sofew lone wolf careers these
days.
So to be successful in anyaspect of life.
You're going to need to figureout how to work with people.
And there are endlessopportunities for that in
sports.
And so, when I think about whatam I most grateful for, with
(40:42):
their coaching staff, they aregreat, and the girls are
incredible athletes, and they'recompetitive nationally, and it's
so much fun to watch them.
But I believe they'recompetitive nationally, because
they focus on training athletesfrom the inside out.
And just like in the example of,You start with taking care of
your team and then yourcustomers and the business
(41:04):
results follow.
If you train athletes to be goodpeople, I think the athletic
results will follow as well.
And then if you allow culturalthings that are unhelpful to
seep in, I think, unfortunately,the negative results follow that
as well.
Leslie (41:21):
Yeah, yeah.
for sharing that.
Of course.
Anything left unsaid on thetopic of purpose in the
workforce.
Jill (41:30):
I don't think so.
Jill,
Leslie (41:32):
thank you for being on Purpose Project.
I really enjoyed ourconversation.
Thank you for having me.
This was great.
Wow, there is so much that I'mtaking away from this
conversation.
And one of those things is Ifound myself reflecting on the
idea that when we take care ofour employees, they take care of
(41:53):
customers.
It's a simple truth, but it canmake all the difference.
And what struck me is that thissame truth holds for living a
life of purpose.
We can't show up fully forothers until we've done the work
(42:14):
to connect with ourselves.
First purpose really does startwith then whether it's purpose
for the business or for each ofus individually.
So ask yourself, what is one wayI can invest in myself today so
that I can show up stronger forthe people around me, both in my
(42:35):
personal and in my professionallife, Jill, thank you for being
on the show and thank youeveryone for tuning in until
next time.
Purpose Project is brought toyou for education and for
(42:56):
entertainment purposes.
This podcast is not intended toreplace the advice that you
would receive from a licensedtherapist or doctor or any other
qualified professional.
Welcome to purpose project.
I'm your host, Leslie Pagel.
And this season we are exploringthe role of purpose in the
workplace, how purpose shows upacross different roles,
industries, and organizations.
Our guest on the show today isJill Canada.
Jill is a sales leader inhealthcare, and she brings a
(00:29):
fresh perspective on success.
Leadership and purpose.
We dive into how purpose fuelsperformance and the importance
of being genuine and authenticwhen it comes to living out our
purpose in our lives and inbusiness.
(00:49):
Let's get started.
Leslie (00:51):
Jill, thank you for being here with us on Purpose
Project.
I'm really looking forward tohaving a conversation about.
How purpose shows up in theworkplace.
Me too.
Thanks for inviting me.
Absolutely.
Before we dive into the topic ofpurpose at work, let's get to
know you a little bit.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself, both personally and
(01:13):
professionally.
Jill (01:14):
So personally, I am married to my college
sweetheart, Andy.
We've been married for 20 years.
We have three wonderful kidsthat are age 17, 15 and nine,
two girls and a boy.
And, um, you know when I thinkabout my personal life, we'll
get into professional next, butwhat's the title that's most
(01:34):
important to me, it isdefinitely being a mom and also
a wife.
So, that's more important thansenior executive at any
organization and that is, youknow, what my world revolves
around.
And then outside of my directfamily, you know, also, um, an
aunt and a daughter and all ofthe other things.
And when I think about friends,I really choose to invest in a
(01:58):
small group of people that beable to support and love and,
put the appropriate time andattention in them, which means,
sometimes a smaller circle, butpeople that I can truly show up
for but, um, if I think aboutwhat is core to me as a person
as well, I just believe in notinvesting in relationships
(02:18):
equally.
And to think about, to be ableto invest fully in certain
relationships that are verymeaningful to me.
So that's a little bit about mepersonally.
And then professionally I amwith a startup now.
It's my second company that is astartup.
But also spent some time infortune 100 companies.
(02:38):
So done both the large company,a large strategic and startup,
environment, and then always asa sales person or a commercial
leader.
Leslie (02:46):
Okay, nice.
So I heard a lot of, love andcare for the people in your life
that are close to you and,working in a sales role.
For a variety of size companies,yes.
Love it.
Thank you for sharing that.
One question I ask everyone onthe show is, do you have your
(03:10):
own life's purpose?
And if so, what is it?
Jill (03:14):
So when I think about purpose, I think about things
that are, you know, a long termgoal and usually tying to
passions or strengths that theperson may have.
So if I were to say a life'spurpose for me, I want to first
say this is, aspirational andnot something that I am perfect
at, but something that I amworking on because it's very
(03:36):
important to me.
And that is the concept of beinga lifter, not a leaner.
You may not have heard thisexact terminology before, and so
I'm happy to define it.
Love it.
Um, starts with a poem by EllaWheeler Wilcox, about lifters
versus leaners.
So let me describe what each ofthem are, and then can explain
(03:58):
why it's part of my purpose.
So we'll start with the negativein this case, which is the
leaners.
So the leaners are the peoplethat are Um, if you take a
sports analogy, in a bike race,they're the people that are
always drafting behind someoneelse and then never taking their
turn out front.
So, um, In that specificanalogy, it is harder to be the
(04:20):
one out front breaking the wind.
It is a lot easier.
So you can go the same speed ina bike race with less effort if
you are the person draftingbehind that person out in front.
So if you show up 100 percent ofthe time as the one drafting and
never as the one leaning orleading, that is a leaner.
Um, they're also, I'm sure thereare people.
(04:41):
And at some point in your life,you've worked with either,
professionally or personally.
Um, there's someone that's aconstant victim.
So these are the people thatleave you feeling worse than
when you first interacted withthem or someone that, has a use
for you.
They come into your life, theypop up when they need something
(05:02):
and never really with that offerof what can they give back in
return.
So that's to the negative side.
Um, unfortunately there's more.
leaners than there are liftersin the world.
Generally, we see some of thesebehaviors a little more often.
So what's a lifter?
So lifter is someone in thebusiness world that's going to
(05:23):
show up and put their, they'regoing to shoulder the weight of
themselves and then also othersaround them.
They're going to take moreaccountability than others
around them.
They're going to go out front inthe world of startups.
you just have to jump in andlead before success is
(05:44):
guaranteed.
Thinking of in a meeting where,um, are you the person that sits
back and waits till someonepresents an idea?
And then a, the most seniorperson in the room weighs in
either with their Pleasure ordispleasure with the idea, you
know, is it that person you jumpon liking or not liking the idea
(06:06):
After the most senior person inthe room has spoken or did you
take the lead and you know Takea stand.
Leslie (06:12):
Yeah,
Jill (06:13):
or are you the one in the arena getting a job done?
And playing the game, or you,the spectator in the stands,
judging and critiquing whatthose playing the game are
doing.
Or, I think of it as really a,um, a chef or a food critic.
So in a past business, we talkedabout this, of, hey, we have no
(06:34):
shortage of food critics aroundhere.
There's plenty of people to talkabout what's wrong with a deal,
and why it has hair on it, andwhat's imperfect about it.
What we need more of are thechefs.
It's so much harder to create,and it's so much easier to sit
back and judge what others havecreated.
So, to be clear, this goes toboth personal and professional
(06:56):
life, and in no way am I sayingI have this nailed, and I show
up perfectly, and I'm always alifter versus a leaner, but it
is something that I'm veryconscious about, and I think
about, how do I do my best to,Most of the time stay in that
lifter category and just bereally conscious of not, sucking
(07:16):
value from other peopleconsistently.
And when I need something fromsomeone, when I need to lean on
somebody else to make sure thatI find ways to, pay them back in
other ways of value.
So what do I have to offer tothem, um, for whatever
assistance I'm needing fromthem?
Leslie (07:32):
Yeah.
I love that the, the visualsthat you put on both and the
emphasis of being reallyintentional about being a lifter
and when you do need to lean.
Recognizing of a responsibilityto give back in some way.
Absolutely.
Yes.
(07:53):
The world does need morelifters.
Yes.
Yep.
It, um, as you were talkingabout the lifters, I just kept
thinking.
Of the word courage, like ittakes, it takes courage
sometimes to, to be a lifter.
Jill (08:08):
It does.
It's, it takes courage and it'stiring.
It's harder work.
So there's no shortcuts withbeing a lifter.
There are shortcuts with being aleaner.
Right.
Yeah.
Leslie (08:19):
Yeah.
Well, thank you for sharing yourpurpose with us.
Of course.
Of course.
So let's shift gears and talkabout the workforce.
Season two is all about howpurpose shows up in the
workforce.
And when you look at your.
experience, across your careeror just where it is today.
How do you see purpose showingup in the workforce?
Jill (08:41):
Yeah.
So for me, I am in healthcare,so it's pretty easy to have a
tie to purpose, you know, thecompany's mission or purpose is
just more straightforward for mebecause of that area that I work
in.
Right.
So if I think about, when Iworked for GE Healthcare, there
was a technology calledautomated breast ultrasound that
(09:03):
I worked with the health systemon.
And that was, adjunctivescreening where, for patients
with dense breasts.
So sometimes you get a cleanmammogram, meaning your
mammogram is negative and you'retold everything's fine.
And those with dense breasts,it's like trying to find a
snowball in a snowstorm.
So you need additionalscreening.
(09:24):
And automated breast ultrasoundprovided that second look and
would find cancers.
missed on traditional mammo.
It's, it's rare, it's a smallpercentage, but it's still, if
you think about, like, what thatdoes for that patient and that
family, if you can catch diseaselike cancer earlier and possibly
change their outcome, Right.
(09:47):
that purpose and mission isright there in front of your
face and you wake up every daythinking, if I can implement
this for a health system and wecan find Five cancers you have
made a huge difference in fivepeople's lives,
Leslie (10:00):
right?
Jill (10:00):
So in health care, it's just so easy to use a A specific
example for me personally, Imentioned my family at the
beginning and my nine year oldson, I had him when I was
working for, GE Healthcare aswell and covered all of the
different, P& Ls or profit andloss centers of the business and
including a maternal infant carebusiness.
(10:29):
Spreadsheets, but I didn't knowthat technology extremely well
until my son was born nine weeksearly and That technology so in
combination with the health careproviders that took care of him
kept him alive And nothing ismore humbling than to know that
you individually can't do thatThere was nothing I personally
(10:52):
could do to save my son when hewas most vulnerable But an
amazing team of healthcareprofessionals utilizing some of
the technology that my companymade gave him an incredible
outcome.
And now he's nine and playsfootball and basketball and
lacrosse and is healthy and hasno lasting effects of
(11:13):
prematurity.
And that is directly because ofthe care he received.
So, in healthcare, it's neverfar.
Patients are always top of mind.
So, I'll never think about thatbusiness in the same way.
And it really came to life, andI'll never forget the patient
experience.
So, in other technologies I'vecommercialized since then, or
(11:36):
worked on since then, I may nothave that same personal story,
but I always think about Whatwe're doing and how it relates
to that patient and how are wesolving a problem for
caregivers?
how are we making that patient'slife or experience better and
There is a direct tie to befound there, right?
Have you always
Leslie (11:56):
been in health care?
Yes, I never said okay.
Okay,
Jill (11:59):
and there's and that also It's worth saying so there's
going to be other peoplelistening.
Maybe they're an accountant ormaybe they're an engineer.
There is always a a tie topurpose, but it doesn't have to
be found solely in your job.
So this is something, you know,again, it's easy for me being in
(12:19):
healthcare, but there's tons ofother wildly important areas
that you might be doing at work.
And maybe that line isn't quiteas clear as it is for
specifically what I do, but itis there.
And then there's alsoopportunities outside of what
you do for work that you can.
Um, tie to your life's purpose.
Yes.
Leslie (12:39):
Yeah.
That is one thing that Iobserved it was season one,
which was all about people thathave clarity in their life's
purpose and they're activelypursuing it.
That pursuit did not alwaysequate to a paycheck.
Yes.
Absolutely.
So sometimes it does happenoutside of work and work has its
(13:01):
purpose, but it might not beyour life's purpose.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Yeah, Okay.
So purpose shows up in theworkplace for you because it's
ingrained in healthcare.
Yes.
It's just the nature of theindustry of healthcare.
It really is, um, about caringfor the health of patients.
(13:25):
And in doing that, that's verypurpose driven.
Also, connection to your son.
Yes.
A personal connection there andthe impact that it had on you.
Yes.
Okay, let's talk about as asales leader.
How do you use purpose in yourrole as a sales
Jill (13:46):
leader?
Leslie (13:47):
Yes.
Jill (13:48):
So when I think about, um, what is our, my team's purpose.
The R& D team expect will solvesignificant problems, um, for
patients and caregivers.
So, The rest of the team isdoing their spot and building
incredible technology that webelieve will make a significant
(14:11):
difference.
What does that mean for my team?
That means I feel the weight ofthe world on my shoulders
because it's our job tocommercialize it and to find a
way to help health systems buyand adopt that technology.
So the world of health care isunfortunately littered with a
(14:34):
lot of really amazing clinicalideas.
that didn't come to fruitionbecause the right economic
argument or factors weren'tthere.
So that's what I spend my timethinking about, is how do we
take what is, let's assume,amazing technology that works.
Because that's what the rest ofthe team is doing, and doing so
(14:55):
beautifully.
So then my team and I have totake that technology and find a
way to get it into the hands ofcaregivers that are going to
utilize it, and then there'spatients that benefit from that.
So that's how I, spend my timethinking about it and, the rest
of the team has done their partand now my team has to do our
part and we have to, have that,um, North Star and mission show
(15:20):
up so that we can bring thisgreat technology to life.
Leslie (15:24):
Yeah.
So I hear when you're, when youtalk about this, it's like
you're looking at the collectiveof the business.
Yep.
And recognizing each area of thebusiness has our responsibility
and our, our responsibility as asales team.
is to get this technology intothe hands of the people that
(15:47):
need it.
Absolutely.
So that the company can fulfillits
Jill (15:52):
purpose.
Right.
And if there is no, anotherthing we say in healthcare often
is, um, there does have to bemargin.
You do have to sell things.
So sometimes it's like a dirtyword to talk about sales, but it
is, if there's no margin, thenthere's no mission.
And that is just a fact.
So, and we do have to figure outa way, you know, nobody sells or
(16:15):
adopts anything unless the valuethat we are providing is greater
than the cost that that customeris going to pay.
So usually if there's somethingthat you're going to buy, there
is some type of pain point thatis whether it's, you know, In
healthcare, whether it'sworkflow or it's, um, clinical
care, it could be any number ofthings.
But there's some type of painthat makes you want to or need
(16:37):
to buy something.
And then we, as the company,have to deliver more value than
the cost of that product orservice.
It's just, it's a simpleequation.
And if you're not doing that,then they're going to go with
one of their other hundredpriorities that they have lined
up that they could be usingprecious, you know, scarce
resources for.
Leslie (16:55):
Right, right.
Yes.
I like that.
margin for what was it?
Jill (17:01):
If there's no margin, there's no mission.
So it's something you hear a lotof, um, nonprofit health systems
talk about.
Um, but it is true.
So it is, you know, and it can'tbe a company's mission.
It can't be their purpose tomake money, right?
That's not enough.
Yeah.
It's, it's a by product and thatis something that.
(17:25):
You know, but it can't be, itdoesn't stand alone.
So if you say, like, ourcompany's mission is to make
money, that's a 100 percentchance you will fail.
Because that, that's not enough.
It's not going to motivate youremployee base.
Customers are not going to beinterested in that.
Um, it doesn't start there.
That is a byproduct of doingeverything else right.
Leslie (17:45):
Right.
Okay.
Because I was, I was wonderingas a sales leader, if you have
had.
Members on your team that aremaybe more motivated by the
sale, the commissions that mightcome with the sale, than they
are the purpose.
(18:08):
Well, one of you have, is that athing that you've had experience
with two different kind ofmotivators?
Yeah.
Jill (18:16):
So I think it doesn't have to be either or.
So if you think about it, thoseshould be aligned incentives.
So if you believe in the problemyou are solving and the product
that you are therefore selling,that means if you are selling
more than you are helping Morepeople, right?
So if we think about, you know,how do I fundamentally think
(18:36):
about selling?
It's another I guess maybe myother life's mission should be
Increasing the brand of thosethat sell because you know,
there's such a negativeconnotation with sales So nobody
wants to grow up and be a salesperson or sales leader and
nobody wants to be sold to youbut if you think about like my
view of selling It's notselling, it is helping people
(19:00):
buy.
So there's a mentor, a long timementor of mine, Dan Adams, who
trained me early on, very earlyin my career on um, sales and
sales process and just, youknow, long selling cycle capital
equipment, how to do that.
And he would always say thatyou're helping people that
you're not selling right?
And if you're interested in along term Relationship with a
(19:23):
client the absolute worst thingyou could ever do is to sell
them something They don't needso You go back to roles that
I've had where I have the wholeportfolio of the business which
might be hundreds of products orsolutions The best thing you can
do is to say, if you're not theright fit, to call it exactly
(19:46):
that.
Up to and including, possiblyeven giving your competitor's
contact information.
If there, if someone else is abetter fit, if you're interested
in having, a 10 year workingrelationship with a client, and
the biggest way to erode trustwould be shoving in a sale that
doesn't solve their problem orneed And that would guarantee
(20:07):
you're gonna lose, the next tenso, you know back to your
question of is It either or?
If your product or solutionsolves the client problem, we
should all be happy if there'smore adoption of that and the
incentives are generally inalignment.
Leslie (20:25):
Yes.
Okay.
Okay.
So I hear that.
Being purpose driven helps youincrease your own personal
commissions, too.
Yep, it can.
They don't
Jill (20:38):
have to be working against each other.
So, I mean, in theory, thoseshould be in alignment.
Leslie (20:43):
Yeah.
Do you see, sales leaders, orsales representatives, that, are
more purpose driven than others,and if so, do their outcomes
differ?
Jill (20:58):
So I think there's a higher percentage in healthcare,
and again, I've only been inhealthcare.
Right.
But most that I work with inhealthcare are really committed
to whatever their solution is.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
And they have that.
patient impact as a North Star.
So I do see a strong tie topurpose in healthcare sales.
(21:22):
Okay.
Leslie (21:23):
Okay.
So I'm, I'm definitely hearinghealthcare, it's just a part,
purpose is a part of thebusiness.
It is, in my opinion.
Because of that, are thereprograms or communications or
initiatives that, that you orthe business works on to help
(21:43):
people connect to purpose or toremind them of purpose?
Do you have to do those things?
Jill (21:49):
Yeah, so I think it, is situational depending on
whatever we are trying toimplement.
So if I used that, um, densebreast screening program example
earlier, so that would be a,hey, here is our north star.
Our north star is we are tryingto find cancers that are not
found in mammo and diagnosecancer earlier.
(22:12):
So if that's our North Star,then we're building everything
around that.
So why does it matter if atimeline slips?
It matters because you mightmiss, someone might have come in
that day that just had the mammoscreening, that doesn't have
additional screening, and maybeyou didn't find their cancer.
So that just becomesexistential.
(22:34):
Right.
So if you really believe in whatyou're doing, then you're
Everything else follows fromthere, and a delay in that
project timeline isn't just asimple delay, it is you are
delaying what you set out to do,and that matters.
Um, and I'll give one othersomewhat, counterintuitive
(22:57):
example, which is another earlycareer mentor of mine named
Jason Crew.
imparted in me the importanceof, um, the order of operations
of how you take care of people.
So he would say, if you asksomeone in the business, Hey,
(23:17):
what do you, who do you putfirst?
Um, everyone would say it's ourcustomers.
Of course, like customers comefirst and Jason's advice.
And now I fully understand thisis It's actually not.
So who you put first is yourteam.
And if you take care of yourteam and your team feels
empowered and they feelsupported and they feel tied
(23:40):
into the purpose or the mission,Then they are generally going to
show up better at work and bemore loyal and be, happy with
what they do and feel like theyare something bigger than
themselves.
So you take care of your teamfirst.
And then what does your team do?
(24:00):
They're going to take care ofthe customers.
The customer is actually secondin this equation.
And, again, soundscounterintuitive, but your team
can't take care of theircustomers if they're Running
around in fear and you justcan't fake Happiness and loving
the company it's going to comeacross as inauthentic So if you
(24:22):
don't take care of that teamfirst that team is not going to
take care of that customer andif you think about it third back
to like you just you can't builda company around a Hey, I want
to make money or making a profitis my company's purpose.
It sounds like a simple formula,but it must be genuine and
authentic.
So this can't be a, Oh, I'mgoing to do all these things
(24:44):
with the express purpose thatit's going to increase business
results.
It's doing it for the rightreasons and the right thing.
But if you do take care of yourteam first, that team takes care
of those customers, the businessresults will naturally follow.
Leslie (24:59):
Love that.
Yes.
Well, and as an employee, don'twe want to feel cared for,
supported in our work in apsychologically safe environment
so that we can be a, lifter.
Yes, absolutely.
So that
Jill (25:14):
everyone could be a lifter in business.
Absolutely, and I justfundamentally believe I've been
in all types of organizationsand sometimes, the whole
organization doesn't have,sometimes it's like individual
manager specific.
But, I just fundamentallybelieve people do their best
work when they are supported.
You have the accountability foryour decisions.
(25:34):
But if you're supported and feelpsychologically safe, I
fundamentally feel like you dobetter work than with the
reverse.
also spent time on teams andorganizations that are more
paranoid and believe in beatingpeople down to get the best
results.
And to me, that just isn't whereyou're going to get your your
best work, right?
But you again, it has to.
You have to do it for the rightreasons.
(25:56):
Otherwise, any lack of beinggenuine or authentic gets
figured out and found, and thenit'll be counterproductive to
what you're trying to
Leslie (26:03):
do.
Well, yeah, because you createsome distrust there,
Jill (26:07):
and as they say with trust, it, I think there's a
saying of it, arrives on footand flees on horseback.
It's so hard to build trust, butyou can break trust in an
instant.
Yeah.
Ten years of building trust canbe gone in a minute based on,
one bad decision.
So, how do we avoid those typesof situations?
Leslie (26:27):
Yeah, so you lead a team of sales reps.
I'm, I'm over here thinking,okay, we each have an individual
purpose, the company haspurpose, team has purpose.
Do you, do you haveconversations with, with your
individuals on your team?
I'm imagining a one on ones orin team settings about the topic
(26:50):
of purpose.
And if so, Is it more aboutcompany purpose, team purpose,
individual, all of them?
How does that look?
Jill (26:59):
I would say, I haven't every time asked about purpose.
It's a great, it's somethingI'll incorporate into my, one on
ones going forward, but I havealways thought about how to
individually manage employees.
And so talk about a differentway that that shows up in the
workplace.
(27:20):
And that is, making sure thatyou're helping them with their
career.
in a way that works for them andnot in what you assume works for
you.
So there is, um, just otherterminology that I really
believe in.
Um, so Kim Scott is an authorthat, talked about rock stars
(27:41):
versus superstars, and I won'tgo into it too much, but both
very high performingindividuals.
In her words, A rock star issomeone that is perfectly
content in their job.
Their life purpose may beoutside of their professional
life.
So maybe they're a customerservice representative by day,
(28:01):
and they are the best one youhave in your company, but maybe
their life purpose is to singopera, and that's what they want
to do.
And so the best for them is tobe able to do their job, do it
incredibly well.
And maybe they want to leave atfive o'clock and go home and
they want to practice operabecause that's what's meaningful
(28:23):
for them.
And that is their life purpose.
So respecting what a rock starwants to do, which is they don't
want your job.
They don't want your boss's job.
They want to be incredible atthe job that they have.
and not necessarily be on asteep career trajectory.
So then what's the other side?
(28:43):
The other side is superstars.
They are on a more steep growthtrajectory.
There isn't a right or wrong.
And they are anxious to, youknow, move up and get promoted
and grow as fast as possible.
So again, just, just difference.
But you want to be careful notto manage.
One or make assumptions aboutpeople and then also just as a
(29:03):
leader to know that it's notwritten in permanent marker.
So in my own world, I've been inboth statuses.
So since we talked about my sonearlier when he was born, um,
the last thing I would have everwanted for my employer to do at
the time was talk to me about adifferent promotion with more
work stress at the time that Ijust wanted him to live.
(29:27):
So they allowed me to have thatflexibility and do that and just
be excellent at the job I wasdoing until such time that I was
ready to take on additionalresponsibility.
So, um, I'll incorporate thepurpose question more going
forward, but I thinkunderstanding, it sometimes
naturally comes out when youunderstand what does that,
(29:47):
what's meaningful to thatemployee.
And just taking away your ownpersonal bias.
Leslie (29:53):
Okay, so I love this rock star versus superstar and
Understanding that Everyone canbe and Both of those categories
throughout their career.
Absolutely.
And it's about seeking tounderstand from the employees
perspective which category theyare in.
(30:14):
Or want to be in.
Exactly.
What's important to them,
Jill (30:17):
not what's important to you, but putting it back into
the employees camp.
What's important to them.
Leslie (30:21):
Yes, okay.
So, getting to know people in apersonal way, you're going to
start to understand what theyvalue, what they like, and, um,
and bringing that into theworkforce.
Most certainly.
Why, why do you feel thatpurpose is, important in
business?
I think
Jill (30:42):
businesses having purpose is critical.
So it is feeling like somethingbigger than yourself.
So it is important for alignmentfrom leadership down to
individual contributors, and ifyou don't have that alignment,
all sorts of challenges come up.
So, a tie to purpose, mission,having alignment, standing for
(31:05):
something.
I think it can also, when doneperfectly, this doesn't happen
in every scenario.
But it can also be a competitivedifferentiator if it's
meaningful.
And then there's also the flipside.
So if you don't have purpose inbusiness and the company is not
aligned, then business resultsare going to show from that.
(31:25):
And then also, um, I think oneof the other challenges is just
in execution.
So it sounds so easy in blackand white.
You can have a great purpose ormission and vision statement,
but if your actions aren'tmatching up to those words or
stated purpose, and it'sapparent for others to see, then
(31:48):
that is certainly challenging.
And you lose that trust and thegoodwill.
And, employees and customersbeing willing to give you the
benefit of the doubt.
If actions and words aren'taligning, then that, is
problematic.
But again, the inverse is true.
So when all those things are inalignment and you're, as we
(32:09):
talked about, you're taking careof the team first and the
customers, and then the businessresults are really going to
follow.
And it's, everything is so mucheasier if there is alignment
starting at the top.
Leslie (32:20):
And purpose creates that.
Absolutely it does.
Love that.
Um I'm envisioning some peoplelistening to this.
Let's take this from a coupledifferent perspectives.
Let's take it from the employeeperspective first.
Someone's watching this, doesn'ta connection to purpose in their
job.
Any advice for them?
Yeah.
(32:40):
So I
Jill (32:40):
think it is, it just doesn't have to come from your
job.
So there are jobs like minewhere it's easy to see, there's
equally many amazing careers inthis world that might not have
that very direct tie to your ownlife's purpose.
And so then you get it outsideof work.
It sounds so much harder than itis.
(33:03):
But if I think of, some of thebest examples in my life with
this, so.
My own dad had an amazing careerin finance with Lily, but his
purpose was not to be a greatfinancial manager and asset to
the company.
It was so much more, and hedefinitely believed in, you
know, gifts of service toothers, and so he voted with his
(33:24):
time and volunteered and gavefinancial resources in a way
that really filled his cup.
So, um, You can't pour from anempty cup, as they say, but
sometimes people feel like theirjob has to provide everything,
including their purpose.
And I think it's almost easierwhen those aren't so
(33:47):
inextricably tied, because theother thing is, there's going to
be job changes, and sometimesthose job changes are
involuntary.
Sometimes you lose a job, andwhen that happens, if you're
everything is that job,including your life's purpose
and you feel lost, that would bemuch harder to take besides the
(34:08):
obvious stress of having, youknow, losing a job.
So to me, great if they align.
I don't think it's that way forthe majority of people.
So, don't not choose a career ordon't stress out about or leave
a career.
If your day job doesn't providethat.
life purpose fulfillment, thereare ways to get it outside of
(34:28):
work.
And honestly, when I think aboutthe ways that I volunteer in my
own time outside of work, it'sdoing things completely
different than my day job, whichis fun and healthy and.
energizing.
So, doing things likevolunteering in the children's
ministry at church.
That's so different from my dayjob.
(34:48):
But if I were a teacher, thatmay not be what I want to do
because it's what I do all thetime.
Right.
So they probably, they mightwant to volunteer on their
production team and do somethingcompletely unrelated to use a
different skill set than they doin their daily life.
Love it.
Leslie (35:03):
Okay.
So you don't need it in yourjob.
You really
Jill (35:07):
don't.
Leslie (35:07):
You really don't.
Yes.
Okay.
So that's the employee.
What about from a leader'sperspective?
Leading a team.
any advice for bringing purposeinto the team dynamic?
Jill (35:19):
I think it is critical because there has to be
something, um, bigger thanyourself.
And again, just chasing businessresults alone is not going to
get it done.
So what is your specificbringing down to individual
teams level?
Is there a mantra?
Is there a specific goal?
But there has to be something torally that team around that is
(35:43):
bigger than themself.
And it's amazing the resultsthat can be achieved when
everybody is You know, rowing inthe same direction at the same
speed.
So, I'm going to use anothersports example.
If you think of, a crew team,that is what, that's how they
get the results they do becauseof that perfect, in sync timing,
synchronization.
(36:04):
And that's what Matters.
Yes.
So having the team be focused ona tangible, specific goal, or
again, it could be a mantra.
It just depends on thesituation.
Um, but having the team allaligned is going to produce
really incredible results.
Love it.
Any other advice?
(36:24):
Um, I would say, Don't be afraidof the hard work that being a
lifter So, if I look back at mycareer, there are some of the
time periods of work that I'mmost proud of also happened to
be time periods where I wasputting in grueling hours, and
(36:48):
the problem we were after wasreally hard, and there were
headwinds, and there were somany things that were difficult,
yet when I look back on thattime period, I think, That was
one of the most fulfilling teamsor time periods that I've ever
been a part of and I think itcomes down to Were you focused?
(37:09):
Do you have great people aroundyou?
Were you focused on a commongoal?
And if you were those gruelinghours and all of the hardships
that go into it They just fadeaway and that's not what I
remember.
What I remember is How we serveda particular client and what a
difference we made and whenyou're working with incredible
(37:34):
people and Getting stuff done.
Then that's what you rememberright instead of the hours that
it took to get there
Leslie (37:43):
Yeah, so be lifters.
Yes, because it brings joy andfulfillment maybe not in that
moment always but
Jill (37:54):
It's so much more fulfilling.
So if you think about it fromthe standpoint of if you're on a
team but didn't contribute tothat team's results, are you
really gonna be, yeah, you mightget the, in the sales world, you
know, commission for it.
(38:14):
But is that meaningful to you ifyou know that you didn't play a
part in someone else did thework?
I don't think it is.
So I want to earn it.
The other core of a liftermentality is it's not a zero sum
game.
So I don't need you to lose forme to win.
(38:38):
Right.
And that is.
So often misunderstood or underappreciated.
And there are ways if I thinkabout my girls are in all star
cheer and it's very meaningfulto them.
And their coach always talksabout training athletes from the
inside out.
And that's what's mostimportant.
(38:59):
So for those that don't knowabout all star cheer, sometimes
you win because another teamThey had a mistake, and they had
a stunt fall, or they had atumbling fall, and they get a
deduction for that.
So, they are, their coaches arealways preaching about, you want
to beat people at their best.
So, you don't want to cheer forsomeone else, and I know this
(39:21):
sounds crazy, but it happens atthese cheer competitions.
You see parents excited whenanother team falls, because it
gives their team a greaterchance of winning.
And that's just fundamentallythe wrong way to look at it.
And you want to be good enoughto, in this case, beat someone
at their best.
And not, I win, you lose.
(39:42):
And that's just the, that's arecipe for non fulfilling short
term results and not what anyoneshould aspire to.
Leslie (39:51):
Yeah.
Love that.
Yes.
Well, and I love that they're,uh, focused on that because
that's a life skill.
It's
Jill (40:01):
amazing.
It's what, why.
For me, as a parent with threekids in youth sports, they're
not in youth sports becausethey're going to get a college
scholarship.
They're in youth sports becausethey are going to get life
lessons that happen as part ofbeing on a team that they're
(40:21):
going to use when they'reprofessionals and are on a team.
So pretty much any, there's sofew lone wolf careers these
days.
So to be successful in anyaspect of life.
You're going to need to figureout how to work with people.
And there are endlessopportunities for that in
sports.
And so, when I think about whatam I most grateful for, with
(40:42):
their coaching staff, they aregreat, and the girls are
incredible athletes, and they'recompetitive nationally, and it's
so much fun to watch them.
But I believe they'recompetitive nationally, because
they focus on training athletesfrom the inside out.
And just like in the example of,You start with taking care of
your team and then yourcustomers and the business
(41:04):
results follow.
If you train athletes to be goodpeople, I think the athletic
results will follow as well.
And then if you allow culturalthings that are unhelpful to
seep in, I think, unfortunately,the negative results follow that
as well.
Leslie (41:21):
Yeah, yeah.
for sharing that.
Of course.
Anything left unsaid on thetopic of purpose in the
workforce.
Jill (41:30):
I don't think so.
Jill,
Leslie (41:32):
thank you for being on Purpose Project.
I really enjoyed ourconversation.
Thank you for having me.
This was great.
Wow, there is so much that I'mtaking away from this
conversation.
And one of those things is Ifound myself reflecting on the
idea that when we take care ofour employees, they take care of
(41:53):
customers.
It's a simple truth, but it canmake all the difference.
And what struck me is that thissame truth holds for living a
life of purpose.
We can't show up fully forothers until we've done the work
(42:14):
to connect with ourselves.
First purpose really does startwith then whether it's purpose
for the business or for each ofus individually.
So ask yourself, what is one wayI can invest in myself today so
that I can show up stronger forthe people around me, both in my
(42:35):
personal and in my professionallife, Jill, thank you for being
on the show and thank youeveryone for tuning in until
next time.
Purpose Project is brought toyou for education and for
(42:56):
entertainment purposes.
This podcast is not intended toreplace the advice that you
would receive from a licensedtherapist or doctor or any other
qualified professional.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com