March 25, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode of Purpose Project, host Leslie Pagle sits down with Adam Weber, an entrepreneur and executive coach. The discussion delves into the intersection of leadership, purpose, and business success. Adam shares insights from his journey in the high-stress world as a founder. They discuss the significance of aligning individual purpose with company mission, the role of rituals in achieving purpose, and how businesses can create focused, purposeful environments that drive sustainable success.
00:00 Welcome to Purpose Project with Leslie Pagle
00:51 Meet Adam Weber: Entrepreneur and Executive Coach
02:20 Exploring Purpose in the Workplace
03:38 The Impact of Purpose on Professional Life
08:41 Balancing Personal and Professional Purpose
17:11 Rituals and Intentionality in Business
19:16 Collective Purpose in Organizations
22:58 Aligning Employee Purpose with Company Goals
24:00 Challenges in Finding Purpose at Work
26:34 The Role of Companies in Employee Alignment
29:18 The Importance of Purpose in Business Strategy
35:17 Execution and Management Clarity
38:03 Final Thoughts on Purpose in the Workplace
39:28 Examined Ambition: A Closing Reflection
Purpose Project is a research study on the topic of life's purpose. You can follow along in the making of Purpose Project:
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Episode Transcript
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Leslie (00:04):
Hi, my name is Leslie Pagle and welcome to Purpose
Project.
In this episode, I sit down withAdam Weber.
Adam is an entrepreneur.
He is an executive coach, andultimately Adam is someone who
is deeply passionate abouthelping leaders grow with
intention.
In this episode, Adam and Iexplore the intersection between
(00:26):
leadership purpose and businesssuccess.
It's an episode that has methinking a lot about the role
that purpose plays in business,and specifically it's got me
thinking a lot about theopportunity that businesses have
to drive success through anactivated purpose.
(00:48):
Let's take a listen.
All right.
Adam, thank you so much forbeing on Purpose Project.
I'm really looking forward totalking about how Purpose shows
up in the workplace.
Adam (00:59):
Thanks, Leslie.
Happy to be here.
Leslie (01:01):
Wonderful.
Before we get started, tell us alittle bit about you.
Who is Adam, both personally andprofessionally?
Adam (01:09):
Well, personally, I'm a husband and a dad.
And an avid pickleball player.
And I love hiking and,professionally I've was an
entrepreneur for, almost 15years.
In venture capital venture techworld.
So pretty high stressenvironment and held a variety
of roles in that world.
(01:29):
And then now I'm an executivecoach, so I support, executives.
I support founders on their owngrowth journeys.
In that high intense stressfulenvironment that I once lived
in, I helped them become thebest version of themselves and
create a sustainable version ofthemselves through a pretty
intense time.
Leslie (01:44):
Very cool.
Well, that is one of the reasonswhy I was so excited to have you
on the show because as both anentrepreneur and now an
executive coach for.
Entrepreneurs and, and leaders,I imagine you have an
interesting perspective onpurpose in the workplace.
So looking forward to divinginto it.
Adam (02:05):
Excited to dive in.
I love the topic.
It's different too.
Like for me, you know, I waslike on the way here, I was
like, this is great.
Like I haven't actually done a,a podcast on this, so I can't
just say all my standard things.
I've got to really explore herewith you and I'm excited about
that.
Leslie (02:19):
Wonderful.
Well, let's just dive into that,into purpose in the workplace.
When you think about the topicof purpose and you think about,
going to work every day, what doyou see?
How does purpose show up in theworkforce?
Adam (02:34):
Yeah, well, I was, thinking on the way here,
reflecting one, like purpose issuch a, it's such a big topic,
in some ways, kind of definingit.
I was like almost a littleoverwhelmed, you know?
And then I was also like, butthere's aspects, there are
things I know are true, youknow, of me, um, and like
purpose for myself.
I think, um, the, the thing thatjumped out to me, and I know
(02:55):
we're moving parts and piecesand, you know, so like subject
to change, hopefully by the timethe episode comes out, I'm like,
no, that's still true of me.
But, I think of my own purposeis like creating.
Safety for others to explore,and, to, uncover their highest
and best version of themselves.
And then also being a personthat helps them both find that
(03:15):
clarity, but then also give themthe confidence on what to do,
like how to become that, thatversion of themselves.
Um, and, and so then when Ithink about how that shows up,
so do you mean how it shows upat my work or how it shows up
for others at work?
Leslie (03:30):
Let's do both because I'm interested in both sides of
your professional career as anentrepreneur and Also as a
coach,
Adam (03:38):
yeah, well, I think like for others It's well one is that
I don't know if there's muchmore soul crushing thing that
happens for people than whenthey feel Wholly detached from
their purpose at work right whenthey show up to work and this
was a part of my early careerfor myself And they like feel a
thing deep inside of them thatis like they're capable of and
(04:02):
then they, their work is inmisalignment with that and how
that just like just is like aweight on your shoulders that
you then carry into the rest ofyour life, right?
And then I've seen the inverseof that too, for, for people who
there were like hearts are seton fire, where they feel like
the work they do is very much inalignment with who they are and
how they feel released.
(04:24):
Um, and, and then that alsospreads into the rest of their
life as well.
Um, and, and I think a lot ofthe work I do in coaching is
with that.
There's so many people you and Iwere just talking about this
before we started recording,like there's such an ambition,
but it's not necessarilyexamined ambition.
(04:44):
And so we just go, Oh, I justgot to get to the next job, the
next promotion, the nextpromotion without really asking,
like what it is that brings youalive.
And, and then at some point you,you kind of think you're
following this kind of likeblind ambition.
And then you have an awakeningmoment, where you go, is that
really what I want?
Or is that just what society wastelling me what I wanted or some
(05:06):
story that my parents, somestory, I tell myself that my
parents put pressure on me.
And so a lot of the work that Ido, as a coach is helping people
really go a level deeper thanthat to really ask themselves,
what is it that you want?
And then why?
And sometimes in thatexploration, you realize like.
That isn't what I want.
I actually want somethingdifferent than that.
Leslie (05:28):
Yeah.
Well, that is one of theoutcomes from season one is that
sometimes we don't stop and, andask the question, what is our
purpose or what lights us up orwhat keeps us up at night?
And so when we just get up andwe go through the motions of
life we get stuck, but it's whenwe can stop and ask those
(05:49):
questions that.
We start to get clarity and canlook to bring that into the
workplace as well.
So you're an executive coach.
Can you describe a little bitabout your clients?
Adam (06:02):
Well, I coach a really wide range of people.
I would say there's like threemain buckets of people.
I coach a lot of early stagefounders.
Who are really at the beginningof their journey.
And that's more like a lot oflike.
Half tactical coaching, likewhat do you do at an early stage
startup and half like, this isso stressful and like, how do I
(06:22):
manage this?
And almost every founder startsa company for some deep seated
fear, insecurity, or motivator.
And so there's a lot to workthrough.
Like there was for me and thereis for them as well.
And then, so that's one.
The other is just like a CEO ofa midsize company who gets
pressure and inputs from allsorts of people, their board,
(06:44):
the executive team, the employeebase.
And, what I do with them is justgive them a space to be an
output, where they can thinkabout a problem and explore it
deeply and really uncover.
I don't need to do a lot of liketactical guidance.
It's just giving them space tothink and space to process and
and to gain some level ofclarity and confidence on what
(07:06):
to do.
Um, and then the third would be,emerging executives.
You're an executive at a companyand you have been asked to step
up, but the business is growingcurrently faster than you are.
And like growth for theindividual doesn't really happen
without intentionality.
And so I create that kind ofspace for that person to
identify, like, where do youwant to grow?
(07:28):
What are those, what do thosethings look like?
And then let's pick one of thosetopics and come up with a way to
practice something new foryourself, that sort of thing.
Leslie (07:36):
So in your client conversations.
It's centered around thebusiness, right?
I mean, that's the, the natureof the coaching.
It sounds like sometimes it canget personal too.
It's,
Adam (07:47):
it's, I wouldn't say it's centered around the business.
It's both.
It's about the person and workis a huge part of their life,
but there are lots of otherthings that are a big part of
their life too.
So, I would say it's sometimesit's practical about work and
sometimes it's about.
Behaviors and patterns that youhave yourself.
(08:07):
Those are very personal thingsthat limit you at work, and so
it's, it's whatever the personneeds.
I try to not worry about itbeing like one thing or the
other.
And I just try to like, let itbe about that other person and
being a very present person intheir life who just gets out of
the way and is what they need inthe moment.
Leslie (08:27):
I was asking because I'm curious, does the topic of
purpose come up in coachingsessions or is it maybe an
underlying part of the coachingprocess?
Adam (08:41):
Yeah, I don't know if it comes up by name.
I think it comes up a lot subtlythough.
Whether it's that search forthat next promotion and really
examining what it is you wantversus what you feel you have to
do, what you have this kind ofobligation or I call it like
almost on autopilot.
So, really getting to the rootof that.
(09:03):
Um, or it just in for foundersand entrepreneurs, it's
uncovering the deeper, likethere's this fear and insecurity
that motivates and drives a lotof entrepreneurs and founders.
And then there's also this,deeply true motivator that is,
why they started the business.
Okay, I was wondering.
And it goes back and forth.
Like, it was for me.
(09:24):
It was like that for me, too.
Helping them live into thisside, the deeply true, this is
why I started the business andthis is the good I have to do in
the world versus deep insecuritythat is, that maybe fueled them
and allows them to have a driveand an intensity and a motor
that a lot of people don't haveaccess to, but maybe doesn't
serve them anymore as well.
Leslie (09:44):
Okay.
Okay.
So in that example with thefounder, the motivation, the
deep personal reason why Istarted this.
It sounds like purpose, right?
Yeah.
It sounds like I started thisfor this purpose.
Yeah,
Adam (10:00):
exactly.
I think it is.
I think it's that.
I think it's like, there is thatside of it for sure that's a big
part of it.
It's like, this is the change Iwant to see in the world, or
this is something that'sfulfilling to me.
Uh huh.
And then it's always on a scale,counterbalanced with some, like
for me, in my own, journey, Iwas like, my company was all
(10:21):
about unlocking potential ofother people.
We measured cultures and then wecoached executives to, build
more inspiring workplaces,right?
It's like very much aligned tomy core purpose of helping
unlock potential of other peopleand helping them see themselves.
And, you know, there's all thesethreads of like what I find
purpose and meaning in.
That's one side.
The other side is like I wasdeeply insecure about finances I
(10:44):
had this story, I'd tell myself,like, I'm going to go homeless.
This is so risky.
Why am I doing this?
Or, or like, I want to be rich,you know, there was another
part.
And so these two things and oneis, I wouldn't even say one is
good or bad.
It's not like there's like agood side and a bad side.
It's just, there was a helpfulside.
And this, this one side of thisfear of, financial insecurity
(11:06):
was incredibly motivating to me,especially early.
In my career, it allowed me toreally work at a pace that was
really, startups are so hardthat it gave me the intensity I
needed to force success in theworld.
This isn't like a regular jobwhere you can just go and do the
job as long as you're betterthan other people.
It's like, no, I'm trying toinvent a thing that doesn't
(11:28):
exist in the world that takes alot of force.
Leslie (11:30):
Right.
Adam (11:30):
And it gave me.
Some level of force, but theproblem is that it wasn't like
sustainable force.
It was like, um, my old businesspartner, uh, Santiago, he called
it dirty fuel.
There's like clean fuel.
That's sustainable, you know,there's this dirty fuel where
it's like.
Um, it's effective, but it woreout its welcome for me.
It created a stress and ananxiety and then that manifests
(11:52):
itself in how you lead people.
And, and so really like then theleadership journey for me, is
just how do I lean in more tothe other side to that kind of
genuine purpose that is, is likesustainable fuel for me.
Leslie (12:05):
Can that side be the, the force that this other side
was?
Adam (12:12):
Um, I
Leslie (12:13):
purpose be that for,
Adam (12:14):
yeah, I think it can.
Yeah, I think it.
And I think, and many times formost people, I actually think it
is, it's both.
I think it is, um, because it isa healthier version of force,
you know, it's so it's like theother one, comes with it.
A lot of velocity of effort,yeah.
But it also has a lot ofdownsides to like, you create,
(12:35):
you actually slow down when youwork out of your stress and then
you treat people in ways thataren't your very best.
And then you have to unwind allthat work, you end up not moving
quickly just because you'removing in like, uh, anxiety or
desperation or fear, that sortof thing.
Yeah.
Leslie (12:52):
Well, and I imagine when you're moving with that force.
The people around you areabsorbing some of that energy
too, which
Adam (13:01):
might
Leslie (13:02):
not be as positive as your purposeful force.
Yeah,
Adam (13:05):
exactly.
I mean in there, I think there'sthis phrase I use a lot for
leaders is like to find yourcalm, steady presence.
The very best leaders have acalm, steady presence.
They create safety for theiremployees.
Where their employees can come,when their employees see
something broken or wrong orinefficient.
(13:26):
They can come to that leader andtrust that leader values what
they have to say, and they mighteven make changes based on it.
And that is very different thanwhen you're leading out of that
other side.
What you do is you createpsychological unsafety, you have
unpredictable reactions.
You feel oddly defensive, eventhough these people are trying
to actually protect yourbusiness.
(13:47):
They don't own the business youdo.
And yet when they come to you,you feel defensive and it feels
personal.
And what you do then is youcreate a team of demotivated
people who lack commitment andwho usually are just looking for
other jobs.
They're just checking in,checking out.
And so that's why it's notvaluable for the long term.
If it's just you, that's onething, right?
It's your own demons you'reworking through and your own
(14:08):
journey you're working through.
But once you've got a team ofpeople to lead, it isn't really
sustainable, scalable, or eveneffective to continue to grow
the company through that.
Leslie (14:18):
Yeah.
So this podcast is aboutpurpose.
So you talk about finding yourcalm, steady.
Yeah.
when you're looking for that, isthat an opportunity to tap into
purpose?
Can purpose help bring you intothat calm, steady state?
Adam (14:39):
That that's a good question.
So like, can purpose help youget to that calm, steady state
you're saying?
Or
Leslie (14:46):
be in it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Get to it if you're in a stateof anxiety, but also be that
calm, steady presence.
That you help your clientsmaintain in their workplace.
Adam (15:00):
Yeah, that's, that's interesting.
Cause I, the way I think aboutit for myself is like this
purpose that like I've definedfor myself.
If I enact it from a calm,steady, rooted, centered,
holistic place, I'm doing it inalignment with myself.
(15:21):
and you create this kind ofnatural.
Flow and goodness and you'redoing it like genuinely, there's
then, but when I don't, italmost, it can look the same to
the other people, right?
But then what I'm not doing iscreating like sustainability in
myself.
For me, like when I give toother people.
And I do it from my own strengthand from my own security and and
(15:43):
my own wholeness, it is rootedin this strong, steady place.
But when I am in my own frantickind of, or desperation or
neediness or those type ofthings, and then I attempt to do
it one, I'm not as effective,but two, it's like, I'm not
actually in alignment withmyself.
So.
I think that's the, I don't knowwhich, which kind of comes first
(16:04):
or the other.
I do, I do think, um, that forme finding that kind of calm,
steady self, it isn't like.
You just decided it actuallytakes discipline in my life.
It's my routines with my phoneand, and my habits in my life,
that are outside my phone, how Istart my morning, how quickly I,
(16:27):
check my email, for example,verse reading something
timelessly true.
Or it's a belief that, like, myphysical body is more important
than the work that I have to dothat day.
And so I'm going to dedicatetime to that.
Um, or going on walks for me isa big deal.
Walks without listening tothings or, just creating just
some space in my mind toreconnect with myself.
(16:50):
Those are all things that I feellike when I have that, then I
can almost, like, see.
And I am, connected to be ableto see the purpose But if I,
without those things.
I'm almost on like on autopilot,you know, it's like the
unexamined life where you'rejust sort of going through the
motions versus addingintentionality to, to your life.
Leslie (17:11):
So let's take that as an example.
Cause then, uh, that's anotherthing that came out of season
one is this concept of ritualsand it's how rituals help us get
centered into our life'spurpose.
It's intentionality around.
Going inward in checking in withourselves so that we can be who
(17:33):
we want to be outward.
Does that concept apply tobusiness too, as it relates to
the topic of purpose?
Are there things in businessthat are also rituals where the
business goes in to make sureit's in alignment with its
intended purpose in life?
Adam (17:54):
Um, yeah, I think so.
I, well, I think there's,there's like the business
leaders themselves and like thedisciplines they have in their
life that have huge rippleeffects, like to the rest of the
company.
Like if the leaders are goingthrough having an examined life
and have healthy rituals andhabits in their life that help
them show up in a calm, steadyway that has like.
(18:17):
Just such a natural impact onthe rest of the company.
And then I think just at the,then the company level, it's.
I think it's once a year atleast, but usually it's once a
year.
You have all the leaders gettogether and work through
literally the purpose.
Why do we exist?
Who do we exist for and how dowe agree we're going to be with
(18:41):
each other?
And that last part, the corevalues and not just like the
word core values, but more likehow are we agreeing that we
behave with one another?
And what are those kind ofground rules and setting a firm
foundation for that is soclarifying for.
Everybody inside theorganization like that is a
(19:02):
ritual and an intentionalitythat then and then and then
obviously then once you havethose you have to enact them,
you have to actually hold peopleaccountable when they're not
living in alignment with whatthe business has decided as the
rules to play by that sort ofthing.
Leslie (19:16):
So in, in your perspective, who owns purpose in
the workplace?
Is that this executive team thatcomes together once a year who
owns the purpose of the company?
Adam (19:30):
I would say what's so interesting normally, had you
asked me two weeks ago or amonth ago, I would have told you
that it's the founders and theexecutive team.
I'd say the founders vetted bythe executive team would be like
the kind of fundamental way thatI would say that in general.
Um, that someone has to put aflag in the ground and, and
somebody started the thing andto say, this is why we exist,
(19:53):
right?
This is the big thing we'redoing in the world beyond just
like the ticky tack that we showup and do every day.
And it is important to remindpeople both what that is.
And then also how theirindividual job connects to it.
I'm doing a project right nowwhere we, we have done, it's a
employee owned company.
(20:13):
Um, and instead of normally howI would do this is like at an
executive leadership retreat,take a two days off site.
And that's one of the componentsof how you spend your time.
It's like really either honingor either creating or redefining
the purpose.
But in this instance, it waslike, nope, we want every single
voice of the entire company tobe a part of crafting this
purpose.
(20:34):
Uh, and it's been a reallyinteresting project because you,
it's like, how do you take in asmany voices as possible, create
an accurate reflection of thatbig why the company exists, but
do it in a way that's additiveversus diluting.
Does that make sense?
Like, and that was the, that wasthe, the challenge.
I'm like really proud of what wecreated because I think it's
(20:56):
like.
It also forces these reallyhonest conversations because
every single word has people onboth sides, you know, of like,
is it this or is it this andMike and just the, the
thoughtful dialogue and, um, andso it certainly not an easy
task, but I also think it'sreally cool.
Like, I'm really proud of it tothat.
It's like we created somethingthat I think.
(21:17):
That the, the employees all hada say in, that we're saying
like, this is why we exist.
This is the big why, of whatwe're doing in the world, that
sort of thing.
Leslie (21:25):
Yeah.
Well, and it's why for me, thisseason, season two is so
fascinating because when wethink about purpose, we often
think about it as, individual,but this is about collective
purpose.
And what I just heard you sayis.
It starts by bringing the rightpeople together and letting them
(21:46):
each have a voice and thenworking through that when they
are split on each side of thewords, how do we come together
and see it in the same way?
Adam (21:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's this, concept ofdisagreeing and committing and
that gets thrown around a lot inbusiness.
And this is like a perfectexample of how that lives out.
It's that there's disagreeing islike the what I mean by that is
when you're in the divergencephase you have a responsibility
to represent your perspectiveand how you see the business
(22:17):
from your angle with fullconfidence Conviction clarity
you debate it to the fullest youhave a duty to do that
especially if you're anexecutive and then at some
point, though, there has to behard decisions that are made
that may or may not be yourperspective.
Leslie (22:33):
Right.
Adam (22:34):
And so then when that happens, then that's really
where that commit phase, it'slike a recognition.
This is not ultimately my job,uh, decision to make.
I represented my idea to thefullest, and now I'm going to
get behind the kind ofcollective idea.
It's not an easy task, but Iwill say it's easier when you
know you represented yourselffully during the divergence
phase.
(22:54):
Versus kind of this convergencephase that happens later.
Um, the other thing I was goingto say is for employees and how
you create this at the fullcompany level is once you have
this defined purpose, the higherorder of the business, like the
Y that the business exists, thenI think what the best
organizations do is have eachemployee think about how do I
(23:19):
support this?
Like what is this in my life?
Like what, how, what is theunique thing I do to bring this
to life no matter what your jobis?
And it takes a little bit oflike work to do that, but it's
cool if you, run that exerciseand then you have people share
back what it is, it's like agreat way for them to take
ownership themselves and, andthe dream scenario is that that
(23:41):
person can connect the dots totheir own purpose.
life, their own role inside thebusiness and how it impacts the
company purpose.
And then those things are inalignment,
Leslie (23:51):
right?
Adam (23:52):
It's not, it's not how everybody's, you know, everybody
has different jobs and sometimesthat works and sometimes it
doesn't, but I think it's a goodgoal to, shoot for.
Leslie (23:59):
Yeah.
How often do you feel like thatalignment between Employee's
purpose to employee's job tocompany purpose.
Adam (24:10):
Not very often.
Okay.
That's what I'm seeing
Leslie (24:13):
too.
Yeah.
You know, it's, it's not veryoften and I'm curious why that
is.
Adam (24:19):
Um, some of it is like some job.
I mean, it's too big of aproblem to solve.
I'm not quite sure.
Like some of it is that theworkforce is isolated down jobs.
Like kind of like part of themanufacturing era, you know,
where it's like assembly line.
We do that at tech companies.
We do that all over the place.
(24:40):
We take, we take diverse, uniqueskill sets, and then we shrink
them down into these isolatedjobs.
And it's harder to find purposein those jobs.
Um, it's not impossible, but itis harder.
So I, I think, I think that'spart of it.
I think the other part of it isthat deep down, people also just
need to make money to survive inthe world.
(25:00):
And so we're talking about ahigher order task, which is not
available.
Like it's, it's not.
It's on the, you know, hierarchyof needs.
It's kind of higher up on thepyramid.
And so it's not something thateveryone, um, is able to get to.
Like some people just end uphaving a job to have a job.
And I, I think that's a.
(25:21):
And now the flip side of that isyou can find purpose in that
concept alone.
Like you can, you can findpurpose to go.
My purpose is to provide for myfamily.
To live a good life outside ofwork.
Like, work is not, isn't mypurpose.
And I think that's a perfectly,like, noble and great way to
spend your life.
Like, you don't have to findthis kind of merger of exactly
(25:43):
what I do is, you know, I thinkwhere tension comes is when it
does the, when it's inmisalignment.
So, where you're actually, like,showing up and it actually,
like, It's pulling away from whoyou're, you're kind of core
sense of self.
Like you're like, Oh, I reallywant to do this other thing, but
I have to show up and do this.
Leslie (26:03):
Right.
Adam (26:04):
I mean, I, I would, you're, you'd be in a very
blessed position if you livedyour whole life and never had a
moment like that where youdidn't just have a job that you
were just doing for otherreasons outside of the job.
Leslie (26:16):
So in that example, cause one of the things that you
started with.
Was this, there's nothing moresoul crushing than when you're
in this situation and your jobis kind of pulling you.
It's.
It's in disalignment with yourpurpose.
What is the responsibility ofthe business for that situation?
(26:40):
Is there a responsibility forthe business for employees like
that?
Adam (26:47):
What's I don't, that's a good question.
I mean, I think, you know, in anideal world, you'd be open about
it and have conversations.
I think though, there's allsorts of.
I'm going to be talking about acouple of scenarios where the
person just like the role or thecompany, like maybe the
company's values are just notaligned, period.
And so rather than it being thecompany's responsibility to fix
it, it's, it's the company'sresponsibility to enact the
(27:10):
values.
So it's clarifying for theemployee that that is not a
great fit for them.
Even in my, in the scenario formyself, I was talking about
like, there were multiple layersthat cause that feeling for me.
I didn't have enough work to do.
Um, so that was a lot of it.
Like I, I didn't really have away to fill my day.
And so I was just sitting there,but I was tied to the office.
Leslie (27:31):
Right.
Adam (27:31):
And so I just sat there and I, it was really boring.
So that was part of it.
I had a little bit of ethicalconflict with the role and how I
like felt about like thebusiness itself and like, was I
in alignment with why thebusiness existed?
Um, and like that createdtension for me, uh, and, and I
think that that was part of it.
And that's not really somethingthe business could solve.
(27:51):
Or I, I mean, like, they're notgoing to solve it for me at the
very least.
Like I was way, early in mycareer, and so I'm not sure that
was a solvable thing for them.
Um, so, you know, I thinkthere's a variety of things that
cause it.
Leslie (28:03):
Well, and what I hear is ultimately the responsibilities
on the individual, you know, ifthe company's playing its role
of living its values and beingopen and honest and transparent
about what those are, whichthat's a big order in and of
itself.
That is
Adam (28:23):
the duty of the company,
Leslie (28:25):
but if they are doing that, then, and there's this
kind of disalignment, thenultimately it's, it's up to the
employees.
To take responsibility for, fortheir purpose.
Adam (28:37):
Yeah, I think, I think it's a, I'm sure it's some
version of a combination, youknow, nothing's black and white.
It's like some version of acombination of that, but I do
think we put a lot of pressureon companies, um, to, which is,
I think some of that iswarranted and some of it is, I
think employees really do havean obligation to kind of
represent for themselves whatthey want.
(28:58):
And also like to recognize likeyou have your own choice.
Like you get to choose, you arekind of like choosing to work at
that company and you have fullagency and autonomy to decide
where you want to work.
And to find that for yourself ifit's something that you
prioritize.
Leslie (29:16):
Absolutely.
So are there advantages in theworkplace when purpose is
present?
And if so what are theadvantages?
Adam (29:28):
Well, I think just at the highest level that when a
company has a clearly definedwhy or a purpose, it's always
better.
Because what it does is that itgives clarity to the employee.
One, it can make the employeesunderstand what this is all
(29:50):
about.
Like, it's easy for executivesto take that for granted because
they're so close to it.
It's easy for people in customersuccess to take it for granted
because oftentimes they get totangibly see the impact.
But 80 percent of the employeesare quite disconnected from the
big why of the business.
And when you have clarity ofthat big why, it might change
(30:11):
the type of things you bring upto your manager.
Like where you're going, Oh,wait, what if we did this?
What if we did this?
And it creates kind of feedbackthat is directed.
Correct way, right?
It's towards something feedbackcan be really broad ideas and
strategy, all those things.
And what we want is to createsome level of a North star that
(30:33):
points people toward where we'regoing.
And then beyond that, then if,if the purpose is the tip of the
spear, as you start to roll outstrategy for the year,
initiatives that you're workingon.
It all points the samedirection.
There's a consistency to it.
And without that, you justcreate these chaotic
environments where people aresort of drifting, you know, and
(30:57):
they don't really understandwhere the business is going and
what it's like, what are we alldoing here?
Leslie (31:02):
So I hear you saying with purpose, we're all pointing
in the same direction.
We have an understanding of whatwe're working towards and why
we're working towards it.
And what's the benefit of that?
Adam (31:19):
Uh, movement, it's hard to think about what's not the
benefit of everybody moving inthe same, like, not moving in
the same direction is, is thechaotic, uh, I mean, it's sadly
like the work environment for alot of people where we're all
moving in different directionsand we're not moving in
alignment together.
But when a group of people havea shared sense of alignment.
(31:40):
That's where, that's where greatgrowth happens.
That's where, when you look backon your career and those amazing
moments, it was a team of peoplewho had clarity of where they
were going, who had a stretchinggoal.
And, it wasn't like it was theeasiest job.
It was that you did somethinghard together, but you were all
pointed in a direction.
When I look back on my career,that was the most fun I ever
(32:00):
had.
Very first startup.
You know, our goal, our firstyear was to get 32 customers or
five of us.
We're all like a team, like, howare we going to do this?
We have one customer, and we gota hundred customers in our first
year.
Wow.
And.
Like that year was so fun.
It was the hardest I've everworked in my entire life.
And I know I could probablynever even replicate that again,
(32:23):
but I also look back on it, likewe were so motivated.
Like I remember that hundredthcustomer and we all like
gathered around and wrote it onthis whiteboard.
It's just like, wow, look atwhat we just did.
We just took, we were just ateam of people who didn't have a
real.
Job basically before they'relike, we started our own job
and, um, and not super greatcareers up to that point.
(32:45):
And we like created something inthe world that was like really
like ours and the other thingthat was happening, I think that
we maybe didn't even notice wasthat we were unlocking like all
of our careers too, you know,and like, that's just a really,
um, it's a really cool thing.
And I think it only happenedbecause we were all.
Leslie (33:01):
Okay, I was going to ask, could you have gotten a
hundred customers without it?
Adam (33:05):
No way.
Okay.
That was too hard.
Leslie (33:08):
So it is about outcomes.
Cause at one point I waswondering, does it just make us
feel good?
Is that the outcome that it,that even though it's hard, we
feel good about the work thatwe're doing, but it's also, we
feel good, but we can also dothings.
That we couldn't without it.
It creates
Adam (33:25):
focus.
I think that's the thing thatfor like in that scenario It
just created a lot of focus.
Leslie (33:30):
Yeah, and focus creates results.
Adam (33:33):
Yeah,
Leslie (33:33):
right.
Yep.
Yeah Yeah,
Adam (33:35):
you combine focus with the belief that it matters.
I think that's part of whatpurpose does like oh this
matters And those two thingstogether really are like, you
know, a pretty powerfulcombination,
Leslie (33:46):
right?
Yeah Awesome.
Um, do you, because of that,would you consider purpose a
competitive differentiationstrategy for a business?
Adam (34:01):
Um, like I think a company having a purpose is.
Is essential.
I don't think it's, I think it'slike a non negotiable to me, I
guess, like because, and it'sbecause of the thing I shared
earlier, um, with the kind ofhierarchy of, of strategy, like
the, the only way to build agreat company is to have a great
strategy.
The only way to have a greatstrategy is to have a purpose
(34:25):
that tells you where you're,that points the tip of the, kind
of the, the North star.
Leslie (34:30):
So let's put two companies up against each other.
Both have a purpose.
Adam (34:35):
Okay.
Leslie (34:36):
Are, are they at a similar advantage?
Adam (34:38):
Well, it depends, I think there's three things, one is,
uh, it's not just do you have apurpose, it's do you have an
activated purpose.
Leslie (34:46):
Okay,
Adam (34:47):
how do
Leslie (34:48):
you live it out?
Yeah, yeah,
Adam (34:49):
do, do the, do the employees feel like it's
authentic?
Do they connect their own roleto it?
Do they understand the biggerimpact in the world?
Does it feel believable andreal?
Or does it feel like a poster onthe wall?
Like that's one.
The second is, um, the valuesand how you live it out.
So do you live it out?
Like do you, um, All kind ofexecute in alignment with one
(35:10):
another.
And you have rules of engagementof how you kind of move
throughout the organization.
And then the third is just, isexecution.
And I cannot stress enough howcritical that part is.
You can't have it without theother two.
Like you do have to haveagreement on where you're going
and how you're going to behaveon your way to get there.
But then also, creating a clearstrategy.
(35:31):
That people are all aligned toand have clear clarity of what
the work is I've been in thelike work development leadership
culture space for 15 years I amstunned by how many employees
don't know what work they'resupposed to be doing
Leslie (35:47):
really
Adam (35:47):
and they They feel like they don't know how they're
doing They don't know what todo.
They don't know if they're doinga good job.
They don't know exactly wherethe boundaries of their role is
versus their, their colleague'srole.
And so that chaotic environmentleads to poor execution.
And ultimately, between thosetwo companies, the one that
succeeds is the one thatexecutes.
(36:08):
It builds a strategy thatcommunicates and is nimble
enough to kind of adjust thestrategy and actually does the
thing that they say they'regoing to do.
Right.
Leslie (36:17):
Yeah.
So why is that, that mostemployees don't have that
clarity where's the breakdown ina business?
Adam (36:27):
Oh, gosh, I could do full episode on it.
I'll try to give you the quick,let's see here.
My goodness.
This is such a big issue.
Well, let me ask you this
Leslie (36:34):
way.
The short one, is it a lack ofpurpose?
Adam (36:37):
It's, I don't think it's a lack of purpose.
I think it's a lack of goodquality management.
Um, if you think about what poormanagement is, it's like, um,
back in the, you know, sayoffice culture, it's like people
looking around, just making surepeople look busy.
But they're not really thinkingabout what work they're actually
doing.
And I think that the reason ithappens is that leaders are so
(37:01):
stressed out that they don'tcreate clarity and give feedback
to their employees.
It's hard work to really sit andthink success for this person
would be this, this, and this,and actually communicating that.
And then assessing on that.
Not many.
It's, it's almost shocking howfew companies actually do that
(37:22):
at kind of the management level.
This is what the role is.
This is what I, this is theexpectations.
This is what success looks likein here.
And then I'm going to give youregular feedback along the way.
It seems so simple.
But I mean, that's part of why Iguess I've been able to have a
career is that it is not livedout with consistency at all.
Leslie (37:42):
Well, and then you think about that, just even that
conversation, which is very muchabout executing the job in the
role.
If that's not happening, then ofcourse, we're not talking about
the individual's purpose and howit can be in alignment with
their job.
Adam (38:00):
Right.
Leslie (38:00):
You know?
Adam (38:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Leslie (38:03):
We've talked about a lot.
We've talked about who ownspurpose um, advantages of having
purpose, how it shows up thechallenges.
Is there anything else leftunsaid in this topic of purpose
in the workplace?
Adam (38:19):
The one thing I was thinking about is that.
I think sometimes we makepurpose a pretty grandiose
topic.
And just to say like that,purpose can look really
different.
You can have purpose and it notbe the actual job that you do.
You can find purpose in creativeways.
I want to bring my kids toDisney world.
(38:40):
I want to have balance in mylife and that is my main
purpose.
Um, and so my job is just ameans for that, you know?
And so instead of, I think sooften we put all this pressure
that the tactical work that youdo has to be your purpose.
I actually don't know that Ithink that's the case.
I think you can find purpose alot of ways.
And so maybe just like to thelistener, take a little pressure
(39:01):
off yourself or think a layered.
beyond the actual work and thinkabout your life, in total.
And then think about what that,how that role could feed your
purpose.
Leslie (39:12):
Love that.
Yes.
Any other advice or thoughts?
Adam (39:17):
I think we did it.
Leslie (39:18):
Woo hoo! I do too.
I appreciate you coming onPurpose Project and sharing your
experience and having thisconversation.
That was great.
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
In Adam's introduction, heintroduces this concept of
examined ambition, and he sharedhow so many times people are
just ambitious, but they'regoing from one thing to the
(39:41):
next, from one promotion to thenext promotion, and oftentimes
that ambition isn't examined.
This concept of examinedambition doesn't just apply to
individuals.
This concept of examinedambition also relates to
businesses.
Without examining the ambitionof the business, we run the risk
(40:06):
of just being on autopilot ofchasing growth for growth's sake
and losing sight of what trulymatters.
But when we take the time toexamine the ambition of the
business to ask.
Why the business strives for thethings it wants.
(40:26):
We can move with greaterintention.
We can move with alignment andfocus it's through this examined
ambition where purpose becomes apowerful force for business.
It is not just for personalclarity, but it is also a force
for building businesses thatmake a meaningful impact.
(40:50):
So I'll leave you with thisquestion.
When was the last time youexamined your ambition?
Adam, thank you for being onthis show, and thanks to all of
you for tuning in.
Purpose Project is brought toyou for education and for
(41:14):
entertainment purposes.
This podcast is not intended toreplace the advice that you
would receive from a licensedtherapist or doctor or any other
qualified professional.
Hi, my name is Leslie Pagle and welcome to Purpose
Project.
In this episode, I sit down withAdam Weber.
Adam is an entrepreneur.
He is an executive coach, andultimately Adam is someone who
is deeply passionate abouthelping leaders grow with
intention.
In this episode, Adam and Iexplore the intersection between
(00:26):
leadership purpose and businesssuccess.
It's an episode that has methinking a lot about the role
that purpose plays in business,and specifically it's got me
thinking a lot about theopportunity that businesses have
to drive success through anactivated purpose.
(00:48):
Let's take a listen.
All right.
Adam, thank you so much forbeing on Purpose Project.
I'm really looking forward totalking about how Purpose shows
up in the workplace.
Adam (00:59):
Thanks, Leslie.
Happy to be here.
Leslie (01:01):
Wonderful.
Before we get started, tell us alittle bit about you.
Who is Adam, both personally andprofessionally?
Adam (01:09):
Well, personally, I'm a husband and a dad.
And an avid pickleball player.
And I love hiking and,professionally I've was an
entrepreneur for, almost 15years.
In venture capital venture techworld.
So pretty high stressenvironment and held a variety
of roles in that world.
(01:29):
And then now I'm an executivecoach, so I support, executives.
I support founders on their owngrowth journeys.
In that high intense stressfulenvironment that I once lived
in, I helped them become thebest version of themselves and
create a sustainable version ofthemselves through a pretty
intense time.
Leslie (01:44):
Very cool.
Well, that is one of the reasonswhy I was so excited to have you
on the show because as both anentrepreneur and now an
executive coach for.
Entrepreneurs and, and leaders,I imagine you have an
interesting perspective onpurpose in the workplace.
So looking forward to divinginto it.
Adam (02:05):
Excited to dive in.
I love the topic.
It's different too.
Like for me, you know, I waslike on the way here, I was
like, this is great.
Like I haven't actually done a,a podcast on this, so I can't
just say all my standard things.
I've got to really explore herewith you and I'm excited about
that.
Leslie (02:19):
Wonderful.
Well, let's just dive into that,into purpose in the workplace.
When you think about the topicof purpose and you think about,
going to work every day, what doyou see?
How does purpose show up in theworkforce?
Adam (02:34):
Yeah, well, I was, thinking on the way here,
reflecting one, like purpose issuch a, it's such a big topic,
in some ways, kind of definingit.
I was like almost a littleoverwhelmed, you know?
And then I was also like, butthere's aspects, there are
things I know are true, youknow, of me, um, and like
purpose for myself.
I think, um, the, the thing thatjumped out to me, and I know
(02:55):
we're moving parts and piecesand, you know, so like subject
to change, hopefully by the timethe episode comes out, I'm like,
no, that's still true of me.
But, I think of my own purposeis like creating.
Safety for others to explore,and, to, uncover their highest
and best version of themselves.
And then also being a personthat helps them both find that
(03:15):
clarity, but then also give themthe confidence on what to do,
like how to become that, thatversion of themselves.
Um, and, and so then when Ithink about how that shows up,
so do you mean how it shows upat my work or how it shows up
for others at work?
Leslie (03:30):
Let's do both because I'm interested in both sides of
your professional career as anentrepreneur and Also as a
coach,
Adam (03:38):
yeah, well, I think like for others It's well one is that
I don't know if there's muchmore soul crushing thing that
happens for people than whenthey feel Wholly detached from
their purpose at work right whenthey show up to work and this
was a part of my early careerfor myself And they like feel a
thing deep inside of them thatis like they're capable of and
(04:02):
then they, their work is inmisalignment with that and how
that just like just is like aweight on your shoulders that
you then carry into the rest ofyour life, right?
And then I've seen the inverseof that too, for, for people who
there were like hearts are seton fire, where they feel like
the work they do is very much inalignment with who they are and
how they feel released.
(04:24):
Um, and, and then that alsospreads into the rest of their
life as well.
Um, and, and I think a lot ofthe work I do in coaching is
with that.
There's so many people you and Iwere just talking about this
before we started recording,like there's such an ambition,
but it's not necessarilyexamined ambition.
(04:44):
And so we just go, Oh, I justgot to get to the next job, the
next promotion, the nextpromotion without really asking,
like what it is that brings youalive.
And, and then at some point you,you kind of think you're
following this kind of likeblind ambition.
And then you have an awakeningmoment, where you go, is that
really what I want?
Or is that just what society wastelling me what I wanted or some
(05:06):
story that my parents, somestory, I tell myself that my
parents put pressure on me.
And so a lot of the work that Ido, as a coach is helping people
really go a level deeper thanthat to really ask themselves,
what is it that you want?
And then why?
And sometimes in thatexploration, you realize like.
That isn't what I want.
I actually want somethingdifferent than that.
Leslie (05:28):
Yeah.
Well, that is one of theoutcomes from season one is that
sometimes we don't stop and, andask the question, what is our
purpose or what lights us up orwhat keeps us up at night?
And so when we just get up andwe go through the motions of
life we get stuck, but it's whenwe can stop and ask those
(05:49):
questions that.
We start to get clarity and canlook to bring that into the
workplace as well.
So you're an executive coach.
Can you describe a little bitabout your clients?
Adam (06:02):
Well, I coach a really wide range of people.
I would say there's like threemain buckets of people.
I coach a lot of early stagefounders.
Who are really at the beginningof their journey.
And that's more like a lot oflike.
Half tactical coaching, likewhat do you do at an early stage
startup and half like, this isso stressful and like, how do I
(06:22):
manage this?
And almost every founder startsa company for some deep seated
fear, insecurity, or motivator.
And so there's a lot to workthrough.
Like there was for me and thereis for them as well.
And then, so that's one.
The other is just like a CEO ofa midsize company who gets
pressure and inputs from allsorts of people, their board,
(06:44):
the executive team, the employeebase.
And, what I do with them is justgive them a space to be an
output, where they can thinkabout a problem and explore it
deeply and really uncover.
I don't need to do a lot of liketactical guidance.
It's just giving them space tothink and space to process and
and to gain some level ofclarity and confidence on what
(07:06):
to do.
Um, and then the third would be,emerging executives.
You're an executive at a companyand you have been asked to step
up, but the business is growingcurrently faster than you are.
And like growth for theindividual doesn't really happen
without intentionality.
And so I create that kind ofspace for that person to
identify, like, where do youwant to grow?
(07:28):
What are those, what do thosethings look like?
And then let's pick one of thosetopics and come up with a way to
practice something new foryourself, that sort of thing.
Leslie (07:36):
So in your client conversations.
It's centered around thebusiness, right?
I mean, that's the, the natureof the coaching.
It sounds like sometimes it canget personal too.
It's,
Adam (07:47):
it's, I wouldn't say it's centered around the business.
It's both.
It's about the person and workis a huge part of their life,
but there are lots of otherthings that are a big part of
their life too.
So, I would say it's sometimesit's practical about work and
sometimes it's about.
Behaviors and patterns that youhave yourself.
(08:07):
Those are very personal thingsthat limit you at work, and so
it's, it's whatever the personneeds.
I try to not worry about itbeing like one thing or the
other.
And I just try to like, let itbe about that other person and
being a very present person intheir life who just gets out of
the way and is what they need inthe moment.
Leslie (08:27):
I was asking because I'm curious, does the topic of
purpose come up in coachingsessions or is it maybe an
underlying part of the coachingprocess?
Adam (08:41):
Yeah, I don't know if it comes up by name.
I think it comes up a lot subtlythough.
Whether it's that search forthat next promotion and really
examining what it is you wantversus what you feel you have to
do, what you have this kind ofobligation or I call it like
almost on autopilot.
So, really getting to the rootof that.
(09:03):
Um, or it just in for foundersand entrepreneurs, it's
uncovering the deeper, likethere's this fear and insecurity
that motivates and drives a lotof entrepreneurs and founders.
And then there's also this,deeply true motivator that is,
why they started the business.
Okay, I was wondering.
And it goes back and forth.
Like, it was for me.
(09:24):
It was like that for me, too.
Helping them live into thisside, the deeply true, this is
why I started the business andthis is the good I have to do in
the world versus deep insecuritythat is, that maybe fueled them
and allows them to have a driveand an intensity and a motor
that a lot of people don't haveaccess to, but maybe doesn't
serve them anymore as well.
Leslie (09:44):
Okay.
Okay.
So in that example with thefounder, the motivation, the
deep personal reason why Istarted this.
It sounds like purpose, right?
Yeah.
It sounds like I started thisfor this purpose.
Yeah,
Adam (10:00):
exactly.
I think it is.
I think it's that.
I think it's like, there is thatside of it for sure that's a big
part of it.
It's like, this is the change Iwant to see in the world, or
this is something that'sfulfilling to me.
Uh huh.
And then it's always on a scale,counterbalanced with some, like
for me, in my own, journey, Iwas like, my company was all
(10:21):
about unlocking potential ofother people.
We measured cultures and then wecoached executives to, build
more inspiring workplaces,right?
It's like very much aligned tomy core purpose of helping
unlock potential of other peopleand helping them see themselves.
And, you know, there's all thesethreads of like what I find
purpose and meaning in.
That's one side.
The other side is like I wasdeeply insecure about finances I
(10:44):
had this story, I'd tell myself,like, I'm going to go homeless.
This is so risky.
Why am I doing this?
Or, or like, I want to be rich,you know, there was another
part.
And so these two things and oneis, I wouldn't even say one is
good or bad.
It's not like there's like agood side and a bad side.
It's just, there was a helpfulside.
And this, this one side of thisfear of, financial insecurity
(11:06):
was incredibly motivating to me,especially early.
In my career, it allowed me toreally work at a pace that was
really, startups are so hardthat it gave me the intensity I
needed to force success in theworld.
This isn't like a regular jobwhere you can just go and do the
job as long as you're betterthan other people.
It's like, no, I'm trying toinvent a thing that doesn't
(11:28):
exist in the world that takes alot of force.
Leslie (11:30):
Right.
Adam (11:30):
And it gave me.
Some level of force, but theproblem is that it wasn't like
sustainable force.
It was like, um, my old businesspartner, uh, Santiago, he called
it dirty fuel.
There's like clean fuel.
That's sustainable, you know,there's this dirty fuel where
it's like.
Um, it's effective, but it woreout its welcome for me.
It created a stress and ananxiety and then that manifests
(11:52):
itself in how you lead people.
And, and so really like then theleadership journey for me, is
just how do I lean in more tothe other side to that kind of
genuine purpose that is, is likesustainable fuel for me.
Leslie (12:05):
Can that side be the, the force that this other side
was?
Adam (12:12):
Um, I
Leslie (12:13):
purpose be that for,
Adam (12:14):
yeah, I think it can.
Yeah, I think it.
And I think, and many times formost people, I actually think it
is, it's both.
I think it is, um, because it isa healthier version of force,
you know, it's so it's like theother one, comes with it.
A lot of velocity of effort,yeah.
But it also has a lot ofdownsides to like, you create,
(12:35):
you actually slow down when youwork out of your stress and then
you treat people in ways thataren't your very best.
And then you have to unwind allthat work, you end up not moving
quickly just because you'removing in like, uh, anxiety or
desperation or fear, that sortof thing.
Yeah.
Leslie (12:52):
Well, and I imagine when you're moving with that force.
The people around you areabsorbing some of that energy
too, which
Adam (13:01):
might
Leslie (13:02):
not be as positive as your purposeful force.
Yeah,
Adam (13:05):
exactly.
I mean in there, I think there'sthis phrase I use a lot for
leaders is like to find yourcalm, steady presence.
The very best leaders have acalm, steady presence.
They create safety for theiremployees.
Where their employees can come,when their employees see
something broken or wrong orinefficient.
(13:26):
They can come to that leader andtrust that leader values what
they have to say, and they mighteven make changes based on it.
And that is very different thanwhen you're leading out of that
other side.
What you do is you createpsychological unsafety, you have
unpredictable reactions.
You feel oddly defensive, eventhough these people are trying
to actually protect yourbusiness.
(13:47):
They don't own the business youdo.
And yet when they come to you,you feel defensive and it feels
personal.
And what you do then is youcreate a team of demotivated
people who lack commitment andwho usually are just looking for
other jobs.
They're just checking in,checking out.
And so that's why it's notvaluable for the long term.
If it's just you, that's onething, right?
It's your own demons you'reworking through and your own
(14:08):
journey you're working through.
But once you've got a team ofpeople to lead, it isn't really
sustainable, scalable, or eveneffective to continue to grow
the company through that.
Leslie (14:18):
Yeah.
So this podcast is aboutpurpose.
So you talk about finding yourcalm, steady.
Yeah.
when you're looking for that, isthat an opportunity to tap into
purpose?
Can purpose help bring you intothat calm, steady state?
Adam (14:39):
That that's a good question.
So like, can purpose help youget to that calm, steady state
you're saying?
Or
Leslie (14:46):
be in it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Get to it if you're in a stateof anxiety, but also be that
calm, steady presence.
That you help your clientsmaintain in their workplace.
Adam (15:00):
Yeah, that's, that's interesting.
Cause I, the way I think aboutit for myself is like this
purpose that like I've definedfor myself.
If I enact it from a calm,steady, rooted, centered,
holistic place, I'm doing it inalignment with myself.
(15:21):
and you create this kind ofnatural.
Flow and goodness and you'redoing it like genuinely, there's
then, but when I don't, italmost, it can look the same to
the other people, right?
But then what I'm not doing iscreating like sustainability in
myself.
For me, like when I give toother people.
And I do it from my own strengthand from my own security and and
(15:43):
my own wholeness, it is rootedin this strong, steady place.
But when I am in my own frantickind of, or desperation or
neediness or those type ofthings, and then I attempt to do
it one, I'm not as effective,but two, it's like, I'm not
actually in alignment withmyself.
So.
I think that's the, I don't knowwhich, which kind of comes first
(16:04):
or the other.
I do, I do think, um, that forme finding that kind of calm,
steady self, it isn't like.
You just decided it actuallytakes discipline in my life.
It's my routines with my phoneand, and my habits in my life,
that are outside my phone, how Istart my morning, how quickly I,
(16:27):
check my email, for example,verse reading something
timelessly true.
Or it's a belief that, like, myphysical body is more important
than the work that I have to dothat day.
And so I'm going to dedicatetime to that.
Um, or going on walks for me isa big deal.
Walks without listening tothings or, just creating just
some space in my mind toreconnect with myself.
(16:50):
Those are all things that I feellike when I have that, then I
can almost, like, see.
And I am, connected to be ableto see the purpose But if I,
without those things.
I'm almost on like on autopilot,you know, it's like the
unexamined life where you'rejust sort of going through the
motions versus addingintentionality to, to your life.
Leslie (17:11):
So let's take that as an example.
Cause then, uh, that's anotherthing that came out of season
one is this concept of ritualsand it's how rituals help us get
centered into our life'spurpose.
It's intentionality around.
Going inward in checking in withourselves so that we can be who
(17:33):
we want to be outward.
Does that concept apply tobusiness too, as it relates to
the topic of purpose?
Are there things in businessthat are also rituals where the
business goes in to make sureit's in alignment with its
intended purpose in life?
Adam (17:54):
Um, yeah, I think so.
I, well, I think there's,there's like the business
leaders themselves and like thedisciplines they have in their
life that have huge rippleeffects, like to the rest of the
company.
Like if the leaders are goingthrough having an examined life
and have healthy rituals andhabits in their life that help
them show up in a calm, steadyway that has like.
(18:17):
Just such a natural impact onthe rest of the company.
And then I think just at the,then the company level, it's.
I think it's once a year atleast, but usually it's once a
year.
You have all the leaders gettogether and work through
literally the purpose.
Why do we exist?
Who do we exist for and how dowe agree we're going to be with
(18:41):
each other?
And that last part, the corevalues and not just like the
word core values, but more likehow are we agreeing that we
behave with one another?
And what are those kind ofground rules and setting a firm
foundation for that is soclarifying for.
Everybody inside theorganization like that is a
(19:02):
ritual and an intentionalitythat then and then and then
obviously then once you havethose you have to enact them,
you have to actually hold peopleaccountable when they're not
living in alignment with whatthe business has decided as the
rules to play by that sort ofthing.
Leslie (19:16):
So in, in your perspective, who owns purpose in
the workplace?
Is that this executive team thatcomes together once a year who
owns the purpose of the company?
Adam (19:30):
I would say what's so interesting normally, had you
asked me two weeks ago or amonth ago, I would have told you
that it's the founders and theexecutive team.
I'd say the founders vetted bythe executive team would be like
the kind of fundamental way thatI would say that in general.
Um, that someone has to put aflag in the ground and, and
somebody started the thing andto say, this is why we exist,
(19:53):
right?
This is the big thing we'redoing in the world beyond just
like the ticky tack that we showup and do every day.
And it is important to remindpeople both what that is.
And then also how theirindividual job connects to it.
I'm doing a project right nowwhere we, we have done, it's a
employee owned company.
(20:13):
Um, and instead of normally howI would do this is like at an
executive leadership retreat,take a two days off site.
And that's one of the componentsof how you spend your time.
It's like really either honingor either creating or redefining
the purpose.
But in this instance, it waslike, nope, we want every single
voice of the entire company tobe a part of crafting this
purpose.
(20:34):
Uh, and it's been a reallyinteresting project because you,
it's like, how do you take in asmany voices as possible, create
an accurate reflection of thatbig why the company exists, but
do it in a way that's additiveversus diluting.
Does that make sense?
Like, and that was the, that wasthe, the challenge.
I'm like really proud of what wecreated because I think it's
(20:56):
like.
It also forces these reallyhonest conversations because
every single word has people onboth sides, you know, of like,
is it this or is it this andMike and just the, the
thoughtful dialogue and, um, andso it certainly not an easy
task, but I also think it'sreally cool.
Like, I'm really proud of it tothat.
It's like we created somethingthat I think.
(21:17):
That the, the employees all hada say in, that we're saying
like, this is why we exist.
This is the big why, of whatwe're doing in the world, that
sort of thing.
Leslie (21:25):
Yeah.
Well, and it's why for me, thisseason, season two is so
fascinating because when wethink about purpose, we often
think about it as, individual,but this is about collective
purpose.
And what I just heard you sayis.
It starts by bringing the rightpeople together and letting them
(21:46):
each have a voice and thenworking through that when they
are split on each side of thewords, how do we come together
and see it in the same way?
Adam (21:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's this, concept ofdisagreeing and committing and
that gets thrown around a lot inbusiness.
And this is like a perfectexample of how that lives out.
It's that there's disagreeing islike the what I mean by that is
when you're in the divergencephase you have a responsibility
to represent your perspectiveand how you see the business
(22:17):
from your angle with fullconfidence Conviction clarity
you debate it to the fullest youhave a duty to do that
especially if you're anexecutive and then at some
point, though, there has to behard decisions that are made
that may or may not be yourperspective.
Leslie (22:33):
Right.
Adam (22:34):
And so then when that happens, then that's really
where that commit phase, it'slike a recognition.
This is not ultimately my job,uh, decision to make.
I represented my idea to thefullest, and now I'm going to
get behind the kind ofcollective idea.
It's not an easy task, but Iwill say it's easier when you
know you represented yourselffully during the divergence
phase.
(22:54):
Versus kind of this convergencephase that happens later.
Um, the other thing I was goingto say is for employees and how
you create this at the fullcompany level is once you have
this defined purpose, the higherorder of the business, like the
Y that the business exists, thenI think what the best
organizations do is have eachemployee think about how do I
(23:19):
support this?
Like what is this in my life?
Like what, how, what is theunique thing I do to bring this
to life no matter what your jobis?
And it takes a little bit oflike work to do that, but it's
cool if you, run that exerciseand then you have people share
back what it is, it's like agreat way for them to take
ownership themselves and, andthe dream scenario is that that
(23:41):
person can connect the dots totheir own purpose.
life, their own role inside thebusiness and how it impacts the
company purpose.
And then those things are inalignment,
Leslie (23:51):
right?
Adam (23:52):
It's not, it's not how everybody's, you know, everybody
has different jobs and sometimesthat works and sometimes it
doesn't, but I think it's a goodgoal to, shoot for.
Leslie (23:59):
Yeah.
How often do you feel like thatalignment between Employee's
purpose to employee's job tocompany purpose.
Adam (24:10):
Not very often.
Okay.
That's what I'm seeing
Leslie (24:13):
too.
Yeah.
You know, it's, it's not veryoften and I'm curious why that
is.
Adam (24:19):
Um, some of it is like some job.
I mean, it's too big of aproblem to solve.
I'm not quite sure.
Like some of it is that theworkforce is isolated down jobs.
Like kind of like part of themanufacturing era, you know,
where it's like assembly line.
We do that at tech companies.
We do that all over the place.
(24:40):
We take, we take diverse, uniqueskill sets, and then we shrink
them down into these isolatedjobs.
And it's harder to find purposein those jobs.
Um, it's not impossible, but itis harder.
So I, I think, I think that'spart of it.
I think the other part of it isthat deep down, people also just
need to make money to survive inthe world.
(25:00):
And so we're talking about ahigher order task, which is not
available.
Like it's, it's not.
It's on the, you know, hierarchyof needs.
It's kind of higher up on thepyramid.
And so it's not something thateveryone, um, is able to get to.
Like some people just end uphaving a job to have a job.
And I, I think that's a.
(25:21):
And now the flip side of that isyou can find purpose in that
concept alone.
Like you can, you can findpurpose to go.
My purpose is to provide for myfamily.
To live a good life outside ofwork.
Like, work is not, isn't mypurpose.
And I think that's a perfectly,like, noble and great way to
spend your life.
Like, you don't have to findthis kind of merger of exactly
(25:43):
what I do is, you know, I thinkwhere tension comes is when it
does the, when it's inmisalignment.
So, where you're actually, like,showing up and it actually,
like, It's pulling away from whoyou're, you're kind of core
sense of self.
Like you're like, Oh, I reallywant to do this other thing, but
I have to show up and do this.
Leslie (26:03):
Right.
Adam (26:04):
I mean, I, I would, you're, you'd be in a very
blessed position if you livedyour whole life and never had a
moment like that where youdidn't just have a job that you
were just doing for otherreasons outside of the job.
Leslie (26:16):
So in that example, cause one of the things that you
started with.
Was this, there's nothing moresoul crushing than when you're
in this situation and your jobis kind of pulling you.
It's.
It's in disalignment with yourpurpose.
What is the responsibility ofthe business for that situation?
(26:40):
Is there a responsibility forthe business for employees like
that?
Adam (26:47):
What's I don't, that's a good question.
I mean, I think, you know, in anideal world, you'd be open about
it and have conversations.
I think though, there's allsorts of.
I'm going to be talking about acouple of scenarios where the
person just like the role or thecompany, like maybe the
company's values are just notaligned, period.
And so rather than it being thecompany's responsibility to fix
it, it's, it's the company'sresponsibility to enact the
(27:10):
values.
So it's clarifying for theemployee that that is not a
great fit for them.
Even in my, in the scenario formyself, I was talking about
like, there were multiple layersthat cause that feeling for me.
I didn't have enough work to do.
Um, so that was a lot of it.
Like I, I didn't really have away to fill my day.
And so I was just sitting there,but I was tied to the office.
Leslie (27:31):
Right.
Adam (27:31):
And so I just sat there and I, it was really boring.
So that was part of it.
I had a little bit of ethicalconflict with the role and how I
like felt about like thebusiness itself and like, was I
in alignment with why thebusiness existed?
Um, and like that createdtension for me, uh, and, and I
think that that was part of it.
And that's not really somethingthe business could solve.
(27:51):
Or I, I mean, like, they're notgoing to solve it for me at the
very least.
Like I was way, early in mycareer, and so I'm not sure that
was a solvable thing for them.
Um, so, you know, I thinkthere's a variety of things that
cause it.
Leslie (28:03):
Well, and what I hear is ultimately the responsibilities
on the individual, you know, ifthe company's playing its role
of living its values and beingopen and honest and transparent
about what those are, whichthat's a big order in and of
itself.
That is
Adam (28:23):
the duty of the company,
Leslie (28:25):
but if they are doing that, then, and there's this
kind of disalignment, thenultimately it's, it's up to the
employees.
To take responsibility for, fortheir purpose.
Adam (28:37):
Yeah, I think, I think it's a, I'm sure it's some
version of a combination, youknow, nothing's black and white.
It's like some version of acombination of that, but I do
think we put a lot of pressureon companies, um, to, which is,
I think some of that iswarranted and some of it is, I
think employees really do havean obligation to kind of
represent for themselves whatthey want.
(28:58):
And also like to recognize likeyou have your own choice.
Like you get to choose, you arekind of like choosing to work at
that company and you have fullagency and autonomy to decide
where you want to work.
And to find that for yourself ifit's something that you
prioritize.
Leslie (29:16):
Absolutely.
So are there advantages in theworkplace when purpose is
present?
And if so what are theadvantages?
Adam (29:28):
Well, I think just at the highest level that when a
company has a clearly definedwhy or a purpose, it's always
better.
Because what it does is that itgives clarity to the employee.
One, it can make the employeesunderstand what this is all
(29:50):
about.
Like, it's easy for executivesto take that for granted because
they're so close to it.
It's easy for people in customersuccess to take it for granted
because oftentimes they get totangibly see the impact.
But 80 percent of the employeesare quite disconnected from the
big why of the business.
And when you have clarity ofthat big why, it might change
(30:11):
the type of things you bring upto your manager.
Like where you're going, Oh,wait, what if we did this?
What if we did this?
And it creates kind of feedbackthat is directed.
Correct way, right?
It's towards something feedbackcan be really broad ideas and
strategy, all those things.
And what we want is to createsome level of a North star that
(30:33):
points people toward where we'regoing.
And then beyond that, then if,if the purpose is the tip of the
spear, as you start to roll outstrategy for the year,
initiatives that you're workingon.
It all points the samedirection.
There's a consistency to it.
And without that, you justcreate these chaotic
environments where people aresort of drifting, you know, and
(30:57):
they don't really understandwhere the business is going and
what it's like, what are we alldoing here?
Leslie (31:02):
So I hear you saying with purpose, we're all pointing
in the same direction.
We have an understanding of whatwe're working towards and why
we're working towards it.
And what's the benefit of that?
Adam (31:19):
Uh, movement, it's hard to think about what's not the
benefit of everybody moving inthe same, like, not moving in
the same direction is, is thechaotic, uh, I mean, it's sadly
like the work environment for alot of people where we're all
moving in different directionsand we're not moving in
alignment together.
But when a group of people havea shared sense of alignment.
(31:40):
That's where, that's where greatgrowth happens.
That's where, when you look backon your career and those amazing
moments, it was a team of peoplewho had clarity of where they
were going, who had a stretchinggoal.
And, it wasn't like it was theeasiest job.
It was that you did somethinghard together, but you were all
pointed in a direction.
When I look back on my career,that was the most fun I ever
(32:00):
had.
Very first startup.
You know, our goal, our firstyear was to get 32 customers or
five of us.
We're all like a team, like, howare we going to do this?
We have one customer, and we gota hundred customers in our first
year.
Wow.
And.
Like that year was so fun.
It was the hardest I've everworked in my entire life.
And I know I could probablynever even replicate that again,
(32:23):
but I also look back on it, likewe were so motivated.
Like I remember that hundredthcustomer and we all like
gathered around and wrote it onthis whiteboard.
It's just like, wow, look atwhat we just did.
We just took, we were just ateam of people who didn't have a
real.
Job basically before they'relike, we started our own job
and, um, and not super greatcareers up to that point.
(32:45):
And we like created something inthe world that was like really
like ours and the other thingthat was happening, I think that
we maybe didn't even notice wasthat we were unlocking like all
of our careers too, you know,and like, that's just a really,
um, it's a really cool thing.
And I think it only happenedbecause we were all.
Leslie (33:01):
Okay, I was going to ask, could you have gotten a
hundred customers without it?
Adam (33:05):
No way.
Okay.
That was too hard.
Leslie (33:08):
So it is about outcomes.
Cause at one point I waswondering, does it just make us
feel good?
Is that the outcome that it,that even though it's hard, we
feel good about the work thatwe're doing, but it's also, we
feel good, but we can also dothings.
That we couldn't without it.
It creates
Adam (33:25):
focus.
I think that's the thing thatfor like in that scenario It
just created a lot of focus.
Leslie (33:30):
Yeah, and focus creates results.
Adam (33:33):
Yeah,
Leslie (33:33):
right.
Yep.
Yeah Yeah,
Adam (33:35):
you combine focus with the belief that it matters.
I think that's part of whatpurpose does like oh this
matters And those two thingstogether really are like, you
know, a pretty powerfulcombination,
Leslie (33:46):
right?
Yeah Awesome.
Um, do you, because of that,would you consider purpose a
competitive differentiationstrategy for a business?
Adam (34:01):
Um, like I think a company having a purpose is.
Is essential.
I don't think it's, I think it'slike a non negotiable to me, I
guess, like because, and it'sbecause of the thing I shared
earlier, um, with the kind ofhierarchy of, of strategy, like
the, the only way to build agreat company is to have a great
strategy.
The only way to have a greatstrategy is to have a purpose
(34:25):
that tells you where you're,that points the tip of the, kind
of the, the North star.
Leslie (34:30):
So let's put two companies up against each other.
Both have a purpose.
Adam (34:35):
Okay.
Leslie (34:36):
Are, are they at a similar advantage?
Adam (34:38):
Well, it depends, I think there's three things, one is,
uh, it's not just do you have apurpose, it's do you have an
activated purpose.
Leslie (34:46):
Okay,
Adam (34:47):
how do
Leslie (34:48):
you live it out?
Yeah, yeah,
Adam (34:49):
do, do the, do the employees feel like it's
authentic?
Do they connect their own roleto it?
Do they understand the biggerimpact in the world?
Does it feel believable andreal?
Or does it feel like a poster onthe wall?
Like that's one.
The second is, um, the valuesand how you live it out.
So do you live it out?
Like do you, um, All kind ofexecute in alignment with one
(35:10):
another.
And you have rules of engagementof how you kind of move
throughout the organization.
And then the third is just, isexecution.
And I cannot stress enough howcritical that part is.
You can't have it without theother two.
Like you do have to haveagreement on where you're going
and how you're going to behaveon your way to get there.
But then also, creating a clearstrategy.
(35:31):
That people are all aligned toand have clear clarity of what
the work is I've been in thelike work development leadership
culture space for 15 years I amstunned by how many employees
don't know what work they'resupposed to be doing
Leslie (35:47):
really
Adam (35:47):
and they They feel like they don't know how they're
doing They don't know what todo.
They don't know if they're doinga good job.
They don't know exactly wherethe boundaries of their role is
versus their, their colleague'srole.
And so that chaotic environmentleads to poor execution.
And ultimately, between thosetwo companies, the one that
succeeds is the one thatexecutes.
(36:08):
It builds a strategy thatcommunicates and is nimble
enough to kind of adjust thestrategy and actually does the
thing that they say they'regoing to do.
Right.
Leslie (36:17):
Yeah.
So why is that, that mostemployees don't have that
clarity where's the breakdown ina business?
Adam (36:27):
Oh, gosh, I could do full episode on it.
I'll try to give you the quick,let's see here.
My goodness.
This is such a big issue.
Well, let me ask you this
Leslie (36:34):
way.
The short one, is it a lack ofpurpose?
Adam (36:37):
It's, I don't think it's a lack of purpose.
I think it's a lack of goodquality management.
Um, if you think about what poormanagement is, it's like, um,
back in the, you know, sayoffice culture, it's like people
looking around, just making surepeople look busy.
But they're not really thinkingabout what work they're actually
doing.
And I think that the reason ithappens is that leaders are so
(37:01):
stressed out that they don'tcreate clarity and give feedback
to their employees.
It's hard work to really sit andthink success for this person
would be this, this, and this,and actually communicating that.
And then assessing on that.
Not many.
It's, it's almost shocking howfew companies actually do that
(37:22):
at kind of the management level.
This is what the role is.
This is what I, this is theexpectations.
This is what success looks likein here.
And then I'm going to give youregular feedback along the way.
It seems so simple.
But I mean, that's part of why Iguess I've been able to have a
career is that it is not livedout with consistency at all.
Leslie (37:42):
Well, and then you think about that, just even that
conversation, which is very muchabout executing the job in the
role.
If that's not happening, then ofcourse, we're not talking about
the individual's purpose and howit can be in alignment with
their job.
Adam (38:00):
Right.
Leslie (38:00):
You know?
Adam (38:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Leslie (38:03):
We've talked about a lot.
We've talked about who ownspurpose um, advantages of having
purpose, how it shows up thechallenges.
Is there anything else leftunsaid in this topic of purpose
in the workplace?
Adam (38:19):
The one thing I was thinking about is that.
I think sometimes we makepurpose a pretty grandiose
topic.
And just to say like that,purpose can look really
different.
You can have purpose and it notbe the actual job that you do.
You can find purpose in creativeways.
I want to bring my kids toDisney world.
(38:40):
I want to have balance in mylife and that is my main
purpose.
Um, and so my job is just ameans for that, you know?
And so instead of, I think sooften we put all this pressure
that the tactical work that youdo has to be your purpose.
I actually don't know that Ithink that's the case.
I think you can find purpose alot of ways.
And so maybe just like to thelistener, take a little pressure
(39:01):
off yourself or think a layered.
beyond the actual work and thinkabout your life, in total.
And then think about what that,how that role could feed your
purpose.
Leslie (39:12):
Love that.
Yes.
Any other advice or thoughts?
Adam (39:17):
I think we did it.
Leslie (39:18):
Woo hoo! I do too.
I appreciate you coming onPurpose Project and sharing your
experience and having thisconversation.
That was great.
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
In Adam's introduction, heintroduces this concept of
examined ambition, and he sharedhow so many times people are
just ambitious, but they'regoing from one thing to the
(39:41):
next, from one promotion to thenext promotion, and oftentimes
that ambition isn't examined.
This concept of examinedambition doesn't just apply to
individuals.
This concept of examinedambition also relates to
businesses.
Without examining the ambitionof the business, we run the risk
(40:06):
of just being on autopilot ofchasing growth for growth's sake
and losing sight of what trulymatters.
But when we take the time toexamine the ambition of the
business to ask.
Why the business strives for thethings it wants.
(40:26):
We can move with greaterintention.
We can move with alignment andfocus it's through this examined
ambition where purpose becomes apowerful force for business.
It is not just for personalclarity, but it is also a force
for building businesses thatmake a meaningful impact.
(40:50):
So I'll leave you with thisquestion.
When was the last time youexamined your ambition?
Adam, thank you for being onthis show, and thanks to all of
you for tuning in.
Purpose Project is brought toyou for education and for
(41:14):
entertainment purposes.
This podcast is not intended toreplace the advice that you
would receive from a licensedtherapist or doctor or any other
qualified professional.
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