April 22, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode of Purpose Project, host Leslie Pagel sits down with Andrea Butcher, a seasoned executive, coach, and entrepreneur committed to human-centered growth. They explore the concept of purpose in the workplace, discussing how individual and organizational purposes intersect. Andrea shares insights on fostering environments where employees feel empowered to be their authentic selves, emphasizing the roles of leadership and culture in this process. They also touch upon personal purpose, and Andrea shares her own journey of self-discovery and leadership development. The episode highlights the shared responsibility of cultivating purpose within organizations and the significant impact it has on both individuals and business growth.
00:00 Introduction to Purpose Project
01:26 Meet Andrea Butcher: A Champion for Human-Centered Growth
02:34 The Importance of Leadership in Business Growth
04:38 Creating a Positive Work Culture
08:19 The Role of Purpose in the Workplace
15:44 Leadership Development: The Key to Human-Centered Leadership
20:13 The Age of Aquarius: A Time for Transformation
21:47 Purpose Beyond Profits: Conscious Capitalism
24:17 Personal Journey and Self-Rediscovery
25:59 Balancing Business Needs and Personal Interests
30:18 Aligning Policies with Mission and Vision
34:27 Creating a Culture of Growth and Alignment
38:03 The Role of Leadership in Cultivating Purpose
43:25 Final Thoughts on Shared Responsibility
Purpose Project is a research study on the topic of life's purpose. You can follow along in the making of Purpose Project:
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Episode Transcript
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Leslie (00:05):
Welcome back to Purpose Project.
My name is Leslie Pagel and I amso glad that you found us today
because this episode is one youwon't want to miss.
In this episode, I sit down withAndrea Butcher.
Andrea is a seasoned executive.
She is also.
A coach to executives.
(00:25):
She's an entrepreneur and she isan all around champion for
human-centered growth anddevelopment.
In this episode, Andrea and Idiscuss purpose in the
workplace, not just.
The personal pursuit, but alsothe intersection of individual
purpose and organizationalpurpose.
(00:47):
And we talk about how leaderscan create an environment where
people are truly empowered tobring their full selves to work.
Let's take a listen.
Andrea, thank you for being onPurpose Project.
I'm looking forward to having aconversation about how purpose
shows up in the workplace.
Leslie, I'm so glad to be here.
(01:08):
You're someone that I haveadmired and respected for so
many years, so I can't imagineanything better than talking
about purpose with someone thatI admire.
Wonderful.
Well, before we jump into thetopic of purpose.
Tell us a little bit about whois Andrea?
Who is Andrea?
(01:28):
Well, she's multifaceted, youknow, very dynamic and lots of
different things come to mind.
I have always been, even as akid,
Andrea (01:40):
Really fascinated in the mysteries of life.
Like I wanted to be anastronaut.
I mean, I would spend hours likereading about astronomy and the
stars and what's out there.
And so not surprising.
I got a degree in psychology'cause mm-hmm.
I remember sitting in Psych 1 01 at Indiana State University
(02:01):
and all of a sudden, oh mygoodness.
There's a whole field devoted toexploration of the mysteries of
life and.
Quite a philosopher.
I kind of see myself, I just,I'm such a seeker and so curious
about why people do what they doand so my master's degree is in
(02:21):
human resource development andOkay.
When I graduated with thatdegree, the job market was wide
open I've been in the HR talentspace for over 20 years, and
when I entered it, I think.
It definitely has evolved a lotthrough that time, but I was so
fortunate very quickly, I workedfor a company in London and so I
(02:42):
got to do global people andtalent work for eight years, and
what I realized really quicklywas that in order to equip
leaders and.
Team members in within theorganization, you needed strong
processes and culture, and I sawthat play out firsthand.
(03:04):
The company I worked for washeadquartered in London, but I
lived in Chicago and so I wassupporting all of these sales
branches all across the countryand not surprising where we had
the best numbers, the bestresults, um, very little
employee relations issues.
There were good leaders in thosebranches.
(03:26):
And so I realized really earlyin my career if we would just
equip leaders to actually lead.
Yes, the results follow.
And I'm fortunate that I sawthat so early in my career'cause
it has really set me up for acareer of equipping and
developing leaders and reallypouring into the people within
(03:46):
the business to support businessgrowth and.
You know, now fast forward 20years, I've, I've, you know, not
only have I gotten to, you know,lead in that large global
organization, but I've gotten togrow organizations of my own.
I've served at the CEO level.
I've been on an executive teamreporting up to a board, and so
(04:09):
I've seen firsthand through myown experience how pouring into
the people leads to businessgrowth and.
Purpose, as we know, is such abig part of that.
And at at this point in mycareer, you know, I, so I'm
currently today leading multipleorganizations.
(04:31):
They get varying degrees of mytime.
You know, where I'm spending themost time right now is on my
executive coaching andconsulting business.
Okay.
So that business, I would say ismy core business my favorite
definition of culture is theshadow of the leader.
Oh.
And that executive team is in somany ways, the shadow of the
culture, their ways of workingreally set the tone.
(04:55):
For what others see and andmodel within the organization.
So I really love the impact ofthat work coming alongside them,
helping them to tell the truthabout what's really going on.
Helping them to acknowledge thedysfunction because there is not
an executive team that doesn'thave dysfunction, right?
So let's tell the truth about itso that we can solution together
(05:17):
and mitigate together.
So that's the core work.
I also have a nonprofitorganization that I founded
several years ago called NextGen Talent.
Okay.
And it is a development programfor emerging HR leaders.
It's an underserved group ofleaders, and because HR and
talent is shifting so much tothe people function, it is about
(05:42):
equipping those leaders with thebusiness skills necessary to
move their organizationsforward.
Nice.
And then I always have Leslie,because I love to create, I
always have something I am, I'mcreating.
Okay.
You know, the other twobusinesses are more in
maintenance mode at this point,but the thing that I'm creating
(06:03):
right now with a couple offellow coaches and friends is
it's called a SisterhoodProject.
And it's all about bringingexecutive women together to
focus more holistically.
Like one of our values is play.
And so we have, um, we have gamenights once a quarter where we
just laugh together and playgames and have a glass of wine
(06:26):
or a mocktail and experience adifferent side of ourselves.
We'll have play dates wherewe'll go on walks or we'll find,
a show or something that we'lldo together.
I was in a lot of theseexecutive women's groups that
were so focused on the business.
Mm-hmm.
And it's like, oh my gosh,there's so much more to my
(06:48):
leadership Right.
Than how I'm running mybusiness.
Like, I, I, and I think it isall connected.
Being a mom of, of, um, a, a kidthat just moved away.
You know, all aspects of my lifeI wanna honor and lift up and
create space for.
And so that's what we're doingwith this Sisterhood Project.
(07:09):
I love that.
Well, you used that wordconnected and that was.
Uh, the main word that cameoutta season one, which was
focused on individuals pursuingtheir purpose, I have found that
in order to live a life ofpurpose as an individual, we
have to be connected toourselves, to each other, and to
(07:32):
the environment.
Mm.
You're talking about like atogetherness connection that
you're creating with executivewomen.
Absolutely.
Which I imagine would bleed overinto their business life and how
you run your business.
Yes.
Wherever you go, there you are.
It is all, it is all connectedand Mm-hmm.
(07:54):
And, I think particularly inthis post pandemic world that we
live in, we recognize that thereisn't a separation between our
professional life and ourpersonal life.
That it is all a part of being ahuman and honoring more of our
humanity at work is reallyimportant and much more
(08:15):
normalized today.
Mm-hmm.
Which is a good thing.
Yeah.
Before we jump into purpose inthe workplace, one question I
ask everyone is, do you have apurpose in your life?
I do.
What is it?
And it is so simple.
It is.
It is to be the light.
It's one of those, you know,because I'm a coach, I'm
(08:36):
fortunate to be certified in alot of different assessment
tools.
So I get to play with a lot ofdifferent assessment tools, and
I've done most of them.
And the, the theme for me isthis theme of positivity.
I am gifted and I know that itis a gift.
I am gifted with a glass halffull orientation and naturally
(08:58):
see the beauty and the goodnessin people.
And so positivity is a corevalue of mine, and I have a,
I've taken that.
Theme and extrapolated it intothis simple, like, wherever I
go, I want to bring my lightwith me.
Yeah.
So I'm intentional about thewords that I use.
(09:20):
I'm intentional about, um, thethought patterns.
You know, negative thoughts, ofcourse, will emerge.
I don't have to believe them.
I don't have to follow them.
And so I always wanna come backto the light.
Yeah.
Be the light.
Yes.
So let's talk about purpose inthe workplace.
Yeah.
Throughout all your experience,how do you see purpose show up
(09:44):
in the workplace?
I think purpose is, so just inthe example that I used, purpose
is so core to who an individualis.
Mm-hmm.
So creating, creating space andmaking it safe for people to be
who they are.
Right.
So that their purpose cannaturally emerge.
(10:05):
Mm-hmm.
I think that is the culture workthat we hear so much about.
That's the work of leaderscreating an environment where
people, like people feel likethey can.
Say when they're not okay.
When they can share somethingpersonal about themselves.
You know, I think that's whenwe, we, that's when we see
purpose emerge, right?
(10:28):
So purpose shows up in theworkplace because employees
bring their whole selves towork, hopefully.
And And in doing that, they'rebringing their purpose into the
workplace.
Yeah.
Because I mean, I think purposeis, is is who you are.
Mm-hmm.
And.
What's so interesting about thatis it never goes away, right?
(10:51):
I mean, think about how, likethat's the constant, and if we,
if we get to a place in ourlives where we can lead with
that, how, how freeing andfulfilling that is, right.
Does that happen though in theworkplace?
(11:12):
Are employees bringing theirwhole authentic selves along
with their purpose into theworkplace?
This is such a fun conversationbecause it's, It's something I,
I probably will always strugglewith because of the work that I
do.
There are two parts of it,aren't there?
There's the person being willingto bring themselves.
(11:33):
Right.
And then there is theenvironment.
Is the environment one in whichI feel like I can do that.
Mm-hmm.
And which comes first?
So it's, it's this dance, isn'tit?
Yes.
I mean, I, I think that.
Both the employer and theemployee has a responsibility in
(11:54):
that.
Absolutely.
Right.
So, and both are reallyimportant.
So for me as a leader, likeright now, I am building my
consulting business.
Mm-hmm.
And I have a new team member whoshared with me in the interview
process that she was leaving atoxic environment.
I know that she divulged thatinformation to me.
(12:17):
I am really sensitive andintentional about the
environment that I'm creatingfor her.
Right?
She had a procedure a couple ofweeks ago and so I like went
into my calendar.
I made a note like that she wasgonna be out.
I made a note the afternoon ofthe surgery to like follow up
with her.
I saw her on email that nightand so I told her like, Hey,
(12:40):
just a reminder like you arehealing this week.
I will respond next week and.
So she, so she, she hasresponsibility to let me know
where her head and her heartare.
Mm-hmm.
Which she did.
I have a responsibility then torespect that information and to
create an environment where shefeels safe.
(13:01):
Right.
That, that I think, I think thatis the key.
Yeah.
Right.
Yes.
You owning your part.
Me owning my part.
Right.
And you shared, I love theexample that you shared'cause
that's.
That is how relationships form.
That's how you allow someone'spurpose to live in, in the
workforce.
You have to know each other, ina meaningful way for the
(13:24):
business.
Right?
Yeah.
How do you do that at scalethough?
You know, I know it's hard,which is why the work of
equipping leaders is reallyimportant.
I mean, you've, you've seen thestats.
Gallup tells us that 70%.
Of the, uh, variance of employeeengagement is attributed to the
manager.
(13:45):
Right.
So the manager is in the bestposition to create that space.
Mm-hmm.
But it's, but if you think aboutit, it's, it's at every level.
So I've done a lot of work withMasterCard.
Okay.
MasterCard is an interestingculture.
You know, huge globalorganization, 30,000 plus
employees around the world.
Michael Miebach is the CEO andhe very much models, I mean.
(14:08):
Creating, creating a culture oftransparency and communication
is really important.
Mm-hmm.
They very much espouse, youknow, honoring the diversity
within the organizationhonoring.
Each individual.
And so, so it starts there.
He not only espouses it, helives it.
(14:30):
Right.
He is, that is his brand.
Mm-hmm.
And then they invest a lot inthe development of leaders and
teams and people, and.
No doubt across thatorganization, there are managers
who are not equipped to createthat kind of kind of
environment.
Not no doubt.
Right.
I've been really fortunate.
I've worked with them for, gosh,six years, is that right?
(14:52):
Maybe even longer.
And you know, I, I've seen allthe effort go into it.
I admire their willingness toinvest so much in the things
that they say are important.
And I've seen the impact ofthat.
I mean, I've seen peopleabsolutely flourish as a result
of being in that environment.
(15:14):
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And the investment is, just tomake sure I'm following, yeah.
The investment that they'remaking, it's in their leadership
development it sounds like.
Yes.
And team development and peopledevelopment.
So it plays out in lots ofdifferent ways and it's, and
it's developing them, it'sequipping them to be able to
(15:34):
lead a team, in a way in whicheveryone can bring their
authentic selves.
to work.
Is that, I would call ithuman-centered leadership.
Okay.
I think, and maybe if, if wecould just push pause for a
second and I can talk a littlebit about the evolution of
leadership development.
Okay.
So.
There's a big difference betweenleadership.
(15:54):
Mm-hmm.
And management.
Uhhuh, you know, management, Ithink of, and actually if you
look at the roots of both ofthose words, the root of the
word manage is.
Is Manus, which is hands uhhuh.
So we think about like thetactical activities of becoming
a new manager.
Okay, man.
You know, goal setting andmanaging performance and
performance improvement andmanaging a budget and scheduling
(16:17):
time and Right.
All of the, the nuts and bolts.
Mm-hmm.
That, that tactical work isreally important because it
creates structure.
It creates clarity, veryimportant work.
And traditionally, like peopleconfuse the words leadership and
management.
So a lot of times people willsay leadership development, and
(16:38):
that's what they're talkingabout.
Okay.
Language is important, right?
And so I think we have to getreally clear, leadership is
influence.
Okay?
It's the, it's not the, thehands and feet.
Of management.
It is the head and the heart.
So it's values-based work.
It's vision work, it's, it'svery intangible.
(16:59):
It's much harder to measure.
It's messy.
Mm-hmm.
Because it's much more about thehuman side.
That is really the work that isimportant today in
organizations.
I feel like we've, we've gottengood at the nuts and bolts
right, but what we'vecompromised in the process is a
lot of the Who are you?
(17:22):
Because we lead from the essenceof who we are as people.
We influence based on the headand the heart.
We influence based on who we areand how we show up, and how we
interact and the energy that weput out into the world.
And so that's the work right nowand that's the work that I love
to do.
Like that's the work ofleadership development.
Right.
Okay.
(17:43):
And plug in where purpose fitsin that a leader who knows who
they are, a leader who isn'tthreatened.
By who other people are.
Like.
That's the work ofhuman-centered leadership.
Okay.
And that is so supportive thenof creating an environment where
(18:03):
people can be whoever they are.
Because now I'm not threatenedby that, right?
Yeah.
Because I know who I am.
Right.
And I know and I know who I'mnot.
Right?
And I'm willing to admit thatand talk that.
about that.
And to know who you are is toknow your purpose, right?
Yes.
Okay.
Yes.
Yeah.
And your values and.
(18:24):
What you stand for and Right.
What, what lights you up?
What doesn't light you up?
Mm-hmm.
For me, like the combination ofall of those things is, is
purpose.
Yeah.
So one way that purpose shows upin the workplace is through
leadership development.
(18:47):
Enabling the leaders to trulyknow who they are, their values,
their beliefs, their purpose to,um, not be threatened by others.
And in doing so, that creates anenvironment where the employees
can show up as who they are,bring their values, their.
uh, Purpose and leave their egosat home.
(19:14):
What a great summary.
And if only it was that simple.
Right?
You know, aren't we all, we, weare all on this journey.
Mm-hmm.
We are all on this growthjourney.
I mean, isn't that what life is,is one big growth experience,
right?
And so the workplace.
(19:36):
Gosh, the workplace is such agreat forum in which to explore
who we are and how we tick andwhat our growth points are.
Right?
And I, I feel like that's what'shappening right now is
organizations are much, theappetite for those kinds of
(19:58):
conversations is really greatbecause there's this, there's, I
think there's this cosmicreadiness.
So, okay, let me just get alittle, let me get a little
Andrea on You.
Remember I started with, I'vealways been such a seeker.
Yes, that's right.
I know.
So Leslie, we are entering theage of Aquarius.
Did you know that?
I did not.
And the age of Aquarius is thistransformational time at a very
(20:22):
big cosmic spiritual level.
I mean, even just saying thatlike no doubt your listeners and
you.
I Have experienced over the lastyear or two, what am I doing?
What's important to me?
Oh yeah.
That, that is this, thisspiritual transformation that is
(20:45):
taking place.
Mm-hmm.
And so everyone is feeling some,some aspect of that.
Yeah.
In some way.
And so there is a readiness.
There's a readiness for thiswork.
Okay.
just last week I had the CEO ofa transportation business say
these words to me.
(21:07):
I don't know why, but for somereason I really want to do
something different.
I want to help my employees bebetter humans.
And that is a sentiment that Ihear almost weekly.
Yes.
And so there's a, there's areadiness for organizational
leaders.
How do I use my business forsomething more?
(21:29):
Mm-hmm.
So can I.
Take that in, twist it a littlebit.
I wish you would.
Okay.
'cause we've been talking a lotabout what I think of as
individual purpose.
You know, I have my purpose.
I, and I bring that into myworkplace.
And you have yours and you bringyours and all that.
Yes.
But business also has a purposetoo.
(21:51):
The business as an entity.
Yes.
As a purpose.
Yes.
And that's, that's a little bitof what I heard there too, is I
want to use the business toserve a, a purpose for humanity.
Be beyond making money, right?
Yes.
Beyond transportation needs.
Yes.
Can we talk about the purpose ofbusiness?
(22:12):
Yeah.
Too.
How much are you seeing that inyour work?
Well, I naturally bring a biastowards.
Purpose centered business beyondprofits.
It's Conscious Capitalism, Ithink, which is where I first
met you, right?
Yeah.
Many, many years ago.
Yeah.
So people like us are naturallydrawn right to that because of
(22:35):
the work that we do.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm having these kinds ofconversations regularly.
Okay.
Leaders, but I, but I also thinkI attract that.
Yeah.
So how are they weaving purposethroughout their business?
Well, I would say you can't, notyou, I think, I think.
There are always going to belayers.
(22:57):
Certainly, like if you thinkabout the traditional like
mission, vision, values, why theorganization exists.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, there's always gonna be,let's use my business.
'cause it's, it's the closest tome.
Why do we exist?
Like we provide executivecoaching, executive team
development.
But because, because I am who Iam.
(23:20):
My purpose is to be a lightnaturally.
I am thinking about, as I'mbuilding my team and bringing
people into my business andcreating a culture that's,
that's just happening, right?
Because I'm intentional.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm thoughtful abouttreating the people that I work
(23:41):
with, like humans andrecognizing their humanity.
Right.
So.
This has come up on otherepisodes where there's an
acknowledgement that when Istart the business, it's purpose
driven but over time, thebusiness loses its soul is how
it came up.
(24:02):
Mm.
You know, so I'm imagining a 30,50, 80, a hundred year old
company.
And gosh, does the, does thepurpose get buried?
Well, and but how, but isn'tthat interesting that the same
thing happens with individuals?
Mm-hmm.
So I have a picture of my8-year-old self hanging in my
(24:23):
bedroom.
So I, in December of 2023, Iexited a 10 year marriage that.
As a marriage in which I justlost myself, I've very much lost
myself in that marriage.
I take responsibility for that.
So left the marriage recognizedI was through 2022 and 2023.
(24:47):
I was working with a therapistand doing a lot of work on just.
Some of my patterns and some ofthat, like capitulating and, uh,
not being, not being reallyhonest and clear about what I
want and need, particularly inclose relationships.
And so There was an exercise Idid where I just spent some time
(25:08):
reflecting on my eight to10-year-old self.
So I found this picture and shewas like bold and untethered and
free, and so I reconnected withher and so I hung that picture
on my bedroom wall so that I seeit every morning as a reminder.
So just like organizations wholose themselves, like so do we.
(25:33):
Yeah.
And, uh, yeah, I mean, and, andis that good?
Is that bad?
I don't know.
Is that just the experience oflife?
The good news is I recognizedit.
The good news is in thesesituations they recognize it and
can get back to it becauseRight.
We're doing the best we can.
I didn't set out to lose myself.
(25:55):
Mm-hmm.
They didn't set out to lose thesoul of the business.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, we've, we talked aboutthat parallel and as we grow up
there are these societal norms,these like, you should do this,
you should do that.
And over time, you know, theystart to.
to, bury your soul.
(26:15):
Right.
Yeah.
And, and the business losesitself.
And the, that happens inbusiness too.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and I actually wonderif it's some of the management
practices that happen where to,in order to create structure,
which is needed in business.
Yes.
I know does, does some of thatlose sight of, of purpose.
(26:36):
Most definitely it does.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I ha I I don't have any answersaround that.
I think it just, I think wherethere's a culture of.
Openness and just honestconversations about what people
want and need.
And we're working with amanufacturing facility right
(26:56):
now, and I'm coaching several ofthe department heads within the
manufacturing facility.
And there was a leader whowanted to go to a different
shift within the facility and.
The primary driver behind herwanting to do that was because
of childcare issues.
Okay.
(27:17):
And the business was going tomake the change because they
needed a good leader in thisshift position.
But then they found out, likejust through conversations, she
was honest about how that was sohelpful with her.
And so they asked her like,well, is that the reason you
want to do this?
And so then they, they put astop to it because they said,
well.
(27:37):
We can't, we can't do that forpersonal reasons.
Like it has to be a businessneed.
Oh.
Because if we made decisionsbased on everyone's personal
needs, it would be, it would betoo hard to manage.
And it just, that felt so off.
Right.
To me.
Yeah.
(27:57):
That is a good example of, it's.
Practices getting in the way.
Yeah.
So she is now very disillusionedwith the organization and is
definitely a flight risk as aresult of that.
Mm-hmm.
And that mindset of, that's astory that that company tells
(28:18):
themselves about, about.
its.
It's, too hard to manage all thepersonal interests.
Right, right.
And, and I did, I talked to thehr, I just, I, I, I sought to
understand.
Mm-hmm.
I went to the HR lead and, hey,like, through conversations this
has come up, I'm just curious.
And she very quickly said like,yes, that is, that is our
(28:38):
policy, right?
Like, we cannot make thosedecisions based on personal
need.
Oh.
And I just said, well, thatwould've been really helpful for
her.
and, and, for And for you reallyas a business, right?
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that's, it's a greatexample actually.
(29:00):
'cause I do think things likethat can get in the way of
people bringing their fullselves to work, right?
I understand there's two thingsbalancing here.
The business Yes.
And the people and, and it is abalancing act.
You know, it's never juststatic, right.
(29:20):
It's a constant state ofalignment.
But it is, yeah.
It's for talent and HR leaders.
It's a constant like, likeparadox, navigation.
Mm-hmm.
You've got business needsprotecting the organization,
mitigating risk.
Mm-hmm.
And then you've got people andtheir needs and it is.
(29:40):
Those things are often inconflict as this, this example
provides.
Yeah.
You know, so it's, it'sunderstanding both perspectives.
I also think it's easier insmaller organizations, right?
It's easier to manage thatbecause there's less risk.
Yeah.
The bigger the organizationgets, the organization opens
(30:01):
itself up and that's when westart seeing like really
doubling down on it is thepolicy.
I.
Right.
But if the policy sucks, thenlike avoid the stupid policy.
Right.
Exactly.
Well, okay, here's a question.
Do companies take the time to,to look at their policies and
(30:25):
see if they're in alignment withtheir purpose.
To me, that would be a purposedriven company.
We're gonna be intentional aboutthe policies, the procedures,
with our purpose in mind.
How do you differentiateorganizational purpose with
mission and vision?
(30:46):
I, that's a great question.
I have the same question.
Um, I, I, and I don't know theanswer.
Because for me, traditionallymission is why we exist.
Okay.
And, and as we've been havingthe conversation, Leslie, I've
been, I've been like, almostlike interchanging those mm-hmm.
Mission and purpose.
And most organizations.
(31:09):
You document and providevisibility to mission vision?
Yes.
I don't, I don't often see, ormaybe I've just not been looking
for it.
Our, like, this is, this is ourpurpose, Uhhuh.
You see the, some companies haveit.
Okay.
You see the language.
I do think mission, vision,vision is more common.
(31:29):
Mm-hmm.
Um, yeah.
And values.
I do.
You know, now that we're havingthe conversation, I like, I
almost think of the combinationof mission, vision, values as
purpose.
I think all of it, because it'sall different aspects of who we
are as an organization.
Yeah, yeah.
Values come up.
And in the, conversations I'mhaving with season two.
(31:50):
Yeah.
It's how we live our who we are.
Right.
What we stand for.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How we treat each other andcustomers and, mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But let's take those, so let'sput the word purpose aside.
Okay.
And let's call it mission.
Mm-hmm.
How much are companies weighingthe things, the practices they
(32:11):
put in place?
Up against their mission andasking the question, are these
in alignment?
Yeah.
I mean, I'm, I'm thinking ofexamples where they, they do and
examples where they don't, youknow, when, when, whenever there
is a strong talent or HR leader,absolutely they are doing that.
Okay.
But it is often policies areviewed as a tactical
(32:36):
administrative activity.
I mean, there are lots ofexamples where I've seen people
just like download a handbook,like a generic handbook and
maybe spend 10 minutes updatingor customizing it just so they
have a handbook.
Right.
And then there are lots ofpolicies that then don't make
sense for them.
(32:57):
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, and you mentioned the HRleader, is that who?
whos Owns in quotes, purpose orNo?
I mean, I think Or mission.
What I see happening a lot areHR and talent leaders are
facilitating the development ofthose things across the
business, ensuring that thosethings are visible and mm-hmm.
(33:22):
That, like that for me, mission,vision, values has got to come
from the, the top.
Mm-hmm.
For sure.
Mm-hmm.
And then be something that allof the leaders are owning,
right?
Yes.
Yeah.
Which is, I, I love takingexecutive teams through that
process of developing mission,vision, values.
It's always an interestingexercise.
(33:43):
'cause I always startpersonally, I think if they can
see themselves in it.
And put themselves in it, it'sgonna have much more meaning.
Right.
So I'll start with a, like apersonal values clarification
and then, okay.
'cause this is the group ofpeople that is setting the tone.
So what shared values do wehave?
(34:05):
Like if, if wherever we go,there we are, then those shared
values are what really is gonnadrive this organization.
And so it's an interesting,it's, it's a, it's an
interesting take.
'cause then they're like, well,but.
It's the organization.
Well, well, yes, but it's whoyou are in the organization.
Right?
And these are your core values.
So that's how you're gonna showup.
Love that.
(34:26):
Mm-hmm.
So fast forward two years aftersomeone does this, what are the
outcomes, Yeah.
When I think when done well,mission, vision, values becomes.
The glue that binds all of yourprocesses.
I mean, as you said, like then,okay.
Is the, are the expectationsthat we're setting of team
(34:49):
members and leaders aligned withwho we are and where we're
going?
Are we bringing people into theorganization based on who we are
and where we're going?
Are we managing performance andcoaching based on who we are and
where we're going?
Are we exiting people because oflack of alignment to who we are
(35:11):
and where we're going?
I think it becomes thefoundation for all of our talent
processes.
Yeah.
If done well, one of the thingsthat came out of season one,
which was focused on individualswho have clarity in their
purpose and are activelypursuing it.
One of the things that came outis they had rituals where they
(35:35):
would, use the time tounderstand themselves.
They had this real sense of selfunderstanding, this is who I am,
this is what I'm, I'm about, andthey had practices that gave
them that self understanding.
When we think about company'smission, vision, values, are
(35:56):
there certain rituals?
That exist in business thatallow the business to stay
centered on their.
Purpose and in alignment withthem.
I, I think what, what a greatpoint you're making.
I think it's having rhythmswhere we're giving visibility
and talking about who we are andwhere we're going.
(36:18):
Mm-hmm.
Those bigger picture things.
Yes.
So, so much of the town hall andthe communication are updates.
Tactical things, connect themback mm-hmm.
To who we are and where we'regoing.
That provides so much moremeaning for people.
Right.
So take existing things.
Yes.
(36:38):
And, and images are huge.
So I mentioned MasterCard.
The, the business operationsfunction is a team that I've
spent a lot of time with, andthey're led by a brilliant
leader.
And they have adopted thepenguin as their mascot.
Oh.
And so in all of theircommunications at team meetings,
(37:01):
they use penguins.
And that imagery createsconnection and reminds people of
who we are and where we're goingand.
And it's fun and it's unique andit's different and it sets them
apart and yeah, when, and it,see, I'm, in my mind, I'm seeing
it always present.
(37:21):
Yes.
Like it always has a.
A place in the environment.
You got it.
And just that image then canremind them, yes, I'm a part of
business operations and this iswhat we're about.
Right.
I love that.
Yeah.
So that's, that's another way.
Mm-hmm.
It's, it's like, it's makingmeaning of it.
It's bringing it to life.
Right.
(37:41):
And words don't, words don'tteach experiences do.
Mm-hmm.
Images, conjure feelings, and,um, experiences that we've had
and.
So it, it takes some creativity,but leaders really thinking
about how do I bring this tolife Right.
In a meaningful way for peoplethat they can connect with.
Exactly.
Yes.
(38:02):
Okay.
We've talked about, um,individual purpose and how it
shows up in the workplace andhow leaders.
have a responsibility to fosterthe environment and the
individuals have aresponsibility of sharing, of
bringing themselves, bringingthemselves yes.
Into the environment.
(38:23):
Anything else on the topic ofpurpose in the workplace that's
on your mind?
You know, what's coming to mindfor me is this, this sacred
space that is created.
I love a good Venn diagram andso my team and I have been
playing with this Venn diagramas we're thinking about the
(38:48):
impact of the leader on theorganization.
So imagine a Venn diagram, thesethree circles.
One circle is the leader, onecircle is the like the team, the
employee base.
One circle is the organization,the organization's health.
I think we could put purpose inthat, right?
But also financial health.
(39:10):
Absolutely.
And we all wanna be a part of awinning team.
So think about where those threecircles overlap.
There's this sacred space, likethat's culture.
That could also maybe, maybethat sacred space is purpose,
but it requires the leader tobring themselves and to continue
(39:32):
to grow themselves because thenthe growth of the leader, the
team, and the organization,there's this dependency.
That I'm, I'm much more able togrow as the organization and the
team are growing.
The team is able to grow and bebetter as I'm growing and the
(39:53):
organization is doing better.
And then naturally theorganization grows as the leader
and the team Yes.
Grows.
Yes.
It ex That then is blowing up.
It's blowing up.
It's just growing, right?
Yeah.
But if the organization isgrowing at the expense of the
leader in the team.
Like that sacred space is notgonna grow.
Exactly.
(40:13):
Right.
Yes.
Gets it does require, gets allof them to grow together.
Rightt growing together.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Growing together.
There's, that's good.
Yes.
That's good.
So how do you create thatthough?
The, the overlap of all?
I know we've talked about someof this already.
Well, that's why I work withexecutive teams because I think
(40:33):
it starts there, you know?
Yeah.
I mean, it, it is alsoimportant.
The emerging leader work is soimportant.
Mm-hmm.
You know, every leadership iseveryone's business in the
organization, but if you look atlike what group or leader has
the biggest impact on theculture and the environment, it
(40:55):
is most definitely that seniorteam.
Yeah.
You know, and don't just let itexist on its own.
Yes.
But really have Yes.
An outside party come in andwork objectively with the
leverage team to, to help youtell the truth.
Yes.
Because,'cause what's funny toois when I work in organizations
and I hear them talk about theirsenior team, it's, it's like
(41:15):
they think they have it figuredout and everyone is struggling.
There is not a CEO or a seniorleader.
That is feeling like soconfident about who they are.
And in all of the moments oftheir days, like no, they're
questioning themselves.
They feel like an imposter.
They don't really know whatthey're doing, right.
(41:37):
They're doubtful.
And so having a, having a safespace to first acknowledge that
and then navigate the struggle Ionce heard, um.
I once heard someone say, youare only as sick as your
secrets.
And there's something about thatI don't quite love.
But what I like about it is whenwe suffer in silence, I know
(42:01):
that it does so much damage toour person ourself.
And so being, being willing tosay like, I'm struggling here.
I don't know.
Right.
I mean, that's, that's the hugevalue of executive coaching is
that's the space that executivecoaches create.
Yes.
Is you can say whatever, right.
That's right.
(42:22):
Anything else?
Any other advice?
It always goes back to before wehit record, you and I were
talking about this, this themeof trusting yourself.
Mm-hmm.
And in my desire to be a light,I know that my gifting is not
about like teaching anyoneanything.
I'm a facilitator and so.
(42:44):
My work is always pointingpeople back to the truth within
them.
So my advice is always trustyourself.
Be willing to, get quiet andlisten to your internal guidance
system.
'cause you have all the answersyou need within you.
Yeah.
Thank you for being on PurposeProject.
(43:05):
Thanks for what you're doing.
This is, this is such goodexploration work.
Yeah.
I think these kinds ofconversations always, I am
always walking away with so manymore questions, which is a good
thing.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Thanks for what you're doing.
Thank you.
Appreciate you.
You too.
Leslie (43:25):
After this conversation with Andrea.
There was a word that just keptechoing in my mind, and that
word is responsibility.
I.
When it comes to our personallives, we carry the full
responsibility for discoveringand living our life of purpose.
But in the workplace, that'sdifferent.
(43:48):
Purpose becomes a sharedresponsibility.
It's a collective effort.
It's about creating a culturewhere people feel safe,
supported, and seen so they canbring their whole selves to
work.
Their whole selves, whichincludes their individual
purpose and that kind ofenvironment.
(44:10):
It doesn't happen by accident.
It takes intention.
It takes leadership.
It takes the responsibility atthe highest levels of the
organization.
And so if you're a part of anorganization, ask yourself, what
role can I play in cultivatingpurpose, not just for myself,
(44:32):
but for my team and for thosearound me.
Because when purpose is shared,it becomes something powerful.
It becomes a place where peoplewant to go and grow together.
Andrea, thank you for being onPurpose Project, and thanks to
all of you for tuning in.
(45:01):
Purpose Project is brought toyou for education and for
entertainment purposes.
This podcast is not intended toreplace the advice that you
would receive from a licensedtherapist or doctor or any other
qualified professional.
Welcome back to Purpose Project.
My name is Leslie Pagel and I amso glad that you found us today
because this episode is one youwon't want to miss.
In this episode, I sit down withAndrea Butcher.
Andrea is a seasoned executive.
She is also.
A coach to executives.
(00:25):
She's an entrepreneur and she isan all around champion for
human-centered growth anddevelopment.
In this episode, Andrea and Idiscuss purpose in the
workplace, not just.
The personal pursuit, but alsothe intersection of individual
purpose and organizationalpurpose.
(00:47):
And we talk about how leaderscan create an environment where
people are truly empowered tobring their full selves to work.
Let's take a listen.
Andrea, thank you for being onPurpose Project.
I'm looking forward to having aconversation about how purpose
shows up in the workplace.
Leslie, I'm so glad to be here.
(01:08):
You're someone that I haveadmired and respected for so
many years, so I can't imagineanything better than talking
about purpose with someone thatI admire.
Wonderful.
Well, before we jump into thetopic of purpose.
Tell us a little bit about whois Andrea?
Who is Andrea?
(01:28):
Well, she's multifaceted, youknow, very dynamic and lots of
different things come to mind.
I have always been, even as akid,
Andrea (01:40):
Really fascinated in the mysteries of life.
Like I wanted to be anastronaut.
I mean, I would spend hours likereading about astronomy and the
stars and what's out there.
And so not surprising.
I got a degree in psychology'cause mm-hmm.
I remember sitting in Psych 1 01 at Indiana State University
(02:01):
and all of a sudden, oh mygoodness.
There's a whole field devoted toexploration of the mysteries of
life and.
Quite a philosopher.
I kind of see myself, I just,I'm such a seeker and so curious
about why people do what they doand so my master's degree is in
(02:21):
human resource development andOkay.
When I graduated with thatdegree, the job market was wide
open I've been in the HR talentspace for over 20 years, and
when I entered it, I think.
It definitely has evolved a lotthrough that time, but I was so
fortunate very quickly, I workedfor a company in London and so I
(02:42):
got to do global people andtalent work for eight years, and
what I realized really quicklywas that in order to equip
leaders and.
Team members in within theorganization, you needed strong
processes and culture, and I sawthat play out firsthand.
(03:04):
The company I worked for washeadquartered in London, but I
lived in Chicago and so I wassupporting all of these sales
branches all across the countryand not surprising where we had
the best numbers, the bestresults, um, very little
employee relations issues.
There were good leaders in thosebranches.
(03:26):
And so I realized really earlyin my career if we would just
equip leaders to actually lead.
Yes, the results follow.
And I'm fortunate that I sawthat so early in my career'cause
it has really set me up for acareer of equipping and
developing leaders and reallypouring into the people within
(03:46):
the business to support businessgrowth and.
You know, now fast forward 20years, I've, I've, you know, not
only have I gotten to, you know,lead in that large global
organization, but I've gotten togrow organizations of my own.
I've served at the CEO level.
I've been on an executive teamreporting up to a board, and so
(04:09):
I've seen firsthand through myown experience how pouring into
the people leads to businessgrowth and.
Purpose, as we know, is such abig part of that.
And at at this point in mycareer, you know, I, so I'm
currently today leading multipleorganizations.
(04:31):
They get varying degrees of mytime.
You know, where I'm spending themost time right now is on my
executive coaching andconsulting business.
Okay.
So that business, I would say ismy core business my favorite
definition of culture is theshadow of the leader.
Oh.
And that executive team is in somany ways, the shadow of the
culture, their ways of workingreally set the tone.
(04:55):
For what others see and andmodel within the organization.
So I really love the impact ofthat work coming alongside them,
helping them to tell the truthabout what's really going on.
Helping them to acknowledge thedysfunction because there is not
an executive team that doesn'thave dysfunction, right?
So let's tell the truth about itso that we can solution together
(05:17):
and mitigate together.
So that's the core work.
I also have a nonprofitorganization that I founded
several years ago called NextGen Talent.
Okay.
And it is a development programfor emerging HR leaders.
It's an underserved group ofleaders, and because HR and
talent is shifting so much tothe people function, it is about
(05:42):
equipping those leaders with thebusiness skills necessary to
move their organizationsforward.
Nice.
And then I always have Leslie,because I love to create, I
always have something I am, I'mcreating.
Okay.
You know, the other twobusinesses are more in
maintenance mode at this point,but the thing that I'm creating
(06:03):
right now with a couple offellow coaches and friends is
it's called a SisterhoodProject.
And it's all about bringingexecutive women together to
focus more holistically.
Like one of our values is play.
And so we have, um, we have gamenights once a quarter where we
just laugh together and playgames and have a glass of wine
(06:26):
or a mocktail and experience adifferent side of ourselves.
We'll have play dates wherewe'll go on walks or we'll find,
a show or something that we'lldo together.
I was in a lot of theseexecutive women's groups that
were so focused on the business.
Mm-hmm.
And it's like, oh my gosh,there's so much more to my
(06:48):
leadership Right.
Than how I'm running mybusiness.
Like, I, I, and I think it isall connected.
Being a mom of, of, um, a, a kidthat just moved away.
You know, all aspects of my lifeI wanna honor and lift up and
create space for.
And so that's what we're doingwith this Sisterhood Project.
(07:09):
I love that.
Well, you used that wordconnected and that was.
Uh, the main word that cameoutta season one, which was
focused on individuals pursuingtheir purpose, I have found that
in order to live a life ofpurpose as an individual, we
have to be connected toourselves, to each other, and to
(07:32):
the environment.
Mm.
You're talking about like atogetherness connection that
you're creating with executivewomen.
Absolutely.
Which I imagine would bleed overinto their business life and how
you run your business.
Yes.
Wherever you go, there you are.
It is all, it is all connectedand Mm-hmm.
(07:54):
And, I think particularly inthis post pandemic world that we
live in, we recognize that thereisn't a separation between our
professional life and ourpersonal life.
That it is all a part of being ahuman and honoring more of our
humanity at work is reallyimportant and much more
(08:15):
normalized today.
Mm-hmm.
Which is a good thing.
Yeah.
Before we jump into purpose inthe workplace, one question I
ask everyone is, do you have apurpose in your life?
I do.
What is it?
And it is so simple.
It is.
It is to be the light.
It's one of those, you know,because I'm a coach, I'm
(08:36):
fortunate to be certified in alot of different assessment
tools.
So I get to play with a lot ofdifferent assessment tools, and
I've done most of them.
And the, the theme for me isthis theme of positivity.
I am gifted and I know that itis a gift.
I am gifted with a glass halffull orientation and naturally
(08:58):
see the beauty and the goodnessin people.
And so positivity is a corevalue of mine, and I have a,
I've taken that.
Theme and extrapolated it intothis simple, like, wherever I
go, I want to bring my lightwith me.
Yeah.
So I'm intentional about thewords that I use.
(09:20):
I'm intentional about, um, thethought patterns.
You know, negative thoughts, ofcourse, will emerge.
I don't have to believe them.
I don't have to follow them.
And so I always wanna come backto the light.
Yeah.
Be the light.
Yes.
So let's talk about purpose inthe workplace.
Yeah.
Throughout all your experience,how do you see purpose show up
(09:44):
in the workplace?
I think purpose is, so just inthe example that I used, purpose
is so core to who an individualis.
Mm-hmm.
So creating, creating space andmaking it safe for people to be
who they are.
Right.
So that their purpose cannaturally emerge.
(10:05):
Mm-hmm.
I think that is the culture workthat we hear so much about.
That's the work of leaderscreating an environment where
people, like people feel likethey can.
Say when they're not okay.
When they can share somethingpersonal about themselves.
You know, I think that's whenwe, we, that's when we see
purpose emerge, right?
(10:28):
So purpose shows up in theworkplace because employees
bring their whole selves towork, hopefully.
And And in doing that, they'rebringing their purpose into the
workplace.
Yeah.
Because I mean, I think purposeis, is is who you are.
Mm-hmm.
And.
What's so interesting about thatis it never goes away, right?
(10:51):
I mean, think about how, likethat's the constant, and if we,
if we get to a place in ourlives where we can lead with
that, how, how freeing andfulfilling that is, right.
Does that happen though in theworkplace?
(11:12):
Are employees bringing theirwhole authentic selves along
with their purpose into theworkplace?
This is such a fun conversationbecause it's, It's something I,
I probably will always strugglewith because of the work that I
do.
There are two parts of it,aren't there?
There's the person being willingto bring themselves.
(11:33):
Right.
And then there is theenvironment.
Is the environment one in whichI feel like I can do that.
Mm-hmm.
And which comes first?
So it's, it's this dance, isn'tit?
Yes.
I mean, I, I think that.
Both the employer and theemployee has a responsibility in
(11:54):
that.
Absolutely.
Right.
So, and both are reallyimportant.
So for me as a leader, likeright now, I am building my
consulting business.
Mm-hmm.
And I have a new team member whoshared with me in the interview
process that she was leaving atoxic environment.
I know that she divulged thatinformation to me.
(12:17):
I am really sensitive andintentional about the
environment that I'm creatingfor her.
Right?
She had a procedure a couple ofweeks ago and so I like went
into my calendar.
I made a note like that she wasgonna be out.
I made a note the afternoon ofthe surgery to like follow up
with her.
I saw her on email that nightand so I told her like, Hey,
(12:40):
just a reminder like you arehealing this week.
I will respond next week and.
So she, so she, she hasresponsibility to let me know
where her head and her heartare.
Mm-hmm.
Which she did.
I have a responsibility then torespect that information and to
create an environment where shefeels safe.
(13:01):
Right.
That, that I think, I think thatis the key.
Yeah.
Right.
Yes.
You owning your part.
Me owning my part.
Right.
And you shared, I love theexample that you shared'cause
that's.
That is how relationships form.
That's how you allow someone'spurpose to live in, in the
workforce.
You have to know each other, ina meaningful way for the
(13:24):
business.
Right?
Yeah.
How do you do that at scalethough?
You know, I know it's hard,which is why the work of
equipping leaders is reallyimportant.
I mean, you've, you've seen thestats.
Gallup tells us that 70%.
Of the, uh, variance of employeeengagement is attributed to the
manager.
(13:45):
Right.
So the manager is in the bestposition to create that space.
Mm-hmm.
But it's, but if you think aboutit, it's, it's at every level.
So I've done a lot of work withMasterCard.
Okay.
MasterCard is an interestingculture.
You know, huge globalorganization, 30,000 plus
employees around the world.
Michael Miebach is the CEO andhe very much models, I mean.
(14:08):
Creating, creating a culture oftransparency and communication
is really important.
Mm-hmm.
They very much espouse, youknow, honoring the diversity
within the organizationhonoring.
Each individual.
And so, so it starts there.
He not only espouses it, helives it.
(14:30):
Right.
He is, that is his brand.
Mm-hmm.
And then they invest a lot inthe development of leaders and
teams and people, and.
No doubt across thatorganization, there are managers
who are not equipped to createthat kind of kind of
environment.
Not no doubt.
Right.
I've been really fortunate.
I've worked with them for, gosh,six years, is that right?
(14:52):
Maybe even longer.
And you know, I, I've seen allthe effort go into it.
I admire their willingness toinvest so much in the things
that they say are important.
And I've seen the impact ofthat.
I mean, I've seen peopleabsolutely flourish as a result
of being in that environment.
(15:14):
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And the investment is, just tomake sure I'm following, yeah.
The investment that they'remaking, it's in their leadership
development it sounds like.
Yes.
And team development and peopledevelopment.
So it plays out in lots ofdifferent ways and it's, and
it's developing them, it'sequipping them to be able to
(15:34):
lead a team, in a way in whicheveryone can bring their
authentic selves.
to work.
Is that, I would call ithuman-centered leadership.
Okay.
I think, and maybe if, if wecould just push pause for a
second and I can talk a littlebit about the evolution of
leadership development.
Okay.
So.
There's a big difference betweenleadership.
(15:54):
Mm-hmm.
And management.
Uhhuh, you know, management, Ithink of, and actually if you
look at the roots of both ofthose words, the root of the
word manage is.
Is Manus, which is hands uhhuh.
So we think about like thetactical activities of becoming
a new manager.
Okay, man.
You know, goal setting andmanaging performance and
performance improvement andmanaging a budget and scheduling
(16:17):
time and Right.
All of the, the nuts and bolts.
Mm-hmm.
That, that tactical work isreally important because it
creates structure.
It creates clarity, veryimportant work.
And traditionally, like peopleconfuse the words leadership and
management.
So a lot of times people willsay leadership development, and
(16:38):
that's what they're talkingabout.
Okay.
Language is important, right?
And so I think we have to getreally clear, leadership is
influence.
Okay?
It's the, it's not the, thehands and feet.
Of management.
It is the head and the heart.
So it's values-based work.
It's vision work, it's, it'svery intangible.
(16:59):
It's much harder to measure.
It's messy.
Mm-hmm.
Because it's much more about thehuman side.
That is really the work that isimportant today in
organizations.
I feel like we've, we've gottengood at the nuts and bolts
right, but what we'vecompromised in the process is a
lot of the Who are you?
(17:22):
Because we lead from the essenceof who we are as people.
We influence based on the headand the heart.
We influence based on who we areand how we show up, and how we
interact and the energy that weput out into the world.
And so that's the work right nowand that's the work that I love
to do.
Like that's the work ofleadership development.
Right.
Okay.
(17:43):
And plug in where purpose fitsin that a leader who knows who
they are, a leader who isn'tthreatened.
By who other people are.
Like.
That's the work ofhuman-centered leadership.
Okay.
And that is so supportive thenof creating an environment where
(18:03):
people can be whoever they are.
Because now I'm not threatenedby that, right?
Yeah.
Because I know who I am.
Right.
And I know and I know who I'mnot.
Right?
And I'm willing to admit thatand talk that.
about that.
And to know who you are is toknow your purpose, right?
Yes.
Okay.
Yes.
Yeah.
And your values and.
(18:24):
What you stand for and Right.
What, what lights you up?
What doesn't light you up?
Mm-hmm.
For me, like the combination ofall of those things is, is
purpose.
Yeah.
So one way that purpose shows upin the workplace is through
leadership development.
(18:47):
Enabling the leaders to trulyknow who they are, their values,
their beliefs, their purpose to,um, not be threatened by others.
And in doing so, that creates anenvironment where the employees
can show up as who they are,bring their values, their.
uh, Purpose and leave their egosat home.
(19:14):
What a great summary.
And if only it was that simple.
Right?
You know, aren't we all, we, weare all on this journey.
Mm-hmm.
We are all on this growthjourney.
I mean, isn't that what life is,is one big growth experience,
right?
And so the workplace.
(19:36):
Gosh, the workplace is such agreat forum in which to explore
who we are and how we tick andwhat our growth points are.
Right?
And I, I feel like that's what'shappening right now is
organizations are much, theappetite for those kinds of
(19:58):
conversations is really greatbecause there's this, there's, I
think there's this cosmicreadiness.
So, okay, let me just get alittle, let me get a little
Andrea on You.
Remember I started with, I'vealways been such a seeker.
Yes, that's right.
I know.
So Leslie, we are entering theage of Aquarius.
Did you know that?
I did not.
And the age of Aquarius is thistransformational time at a very
(20:22):
big cosmic spiritual level.
I mean, even just saying thatlike no doubt your listeners and
you.
I Have experienced over the lastyear or two, what am I doing?
What's important to me?
Oh yeah.
That, that is this, thisspiritual transformation that is
(20:45):
taking place.
Mm-hmm.
And so everyone is feeling some,some aspect of that.
Yeah.
In some way.
And so there is a readiness.
There's a readiness for thiswork.
Okay.
just last week I had the CEO ofa transportation business say
these words to me.
(21:07):
I don't know why, but for somereason I really want to do
something different.
I want to help my employees bebetter humans.
And that is a sentiment that Ihear almost weekly.
Yes.
And so there's a, there's areadiness for organizational
leaders.
How do I use my business forsomething more?
(21:29):
Mm-hmm.
So can I.
Take that in, twist it a littlebit.
I wish you would.
Okay.
'cause we've been talking a lotabout what I think of as
individual purpose.
You know, I have my purpose.
I, and I bring that into myworkplace.
And you have yours and you bringyours and all that.
Yes.
But business also has a purposetoo.
(21:51):
The business as an entity.
Yes.
As a purpose.
Yes.
And that's, that's a little bitof what I heard there too, is I
want to use the business toserve a, a purpose for humanity.
Be beyond making money, right?
Yes.
Beyond transportation needs.
Yes.
Can we talk about the purpose ofbusiness?
(22:12):
Yeah.
Too.
How much are you seeing that inyour work?
Well, I naturally bring a biastowards.
Purpose centered business beyondprofits.
It's Conscious Capitalism, Ithink, which is where I first
met you, right?
Yeah.
Many, many years ago.
Yeah.
So people like us are naturallydrawn right to that because of
(22:35):
the work that we do.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm having these kinds ofconversations regularly.
Okay.
Leaders, but I, but I also thinkI attract that.
Yeah.
So how are they weaving purposethroughout their business?
Well, I would say you can't, notyou, I think, I think.
There are always going to belayers.
(22:57):
Certainly, like if you thinkabout the traditional like
mission, vision, values, why theorganization exists.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, there's always gonna be,let's use my business.
'cause it's, it's the closest tome.
Why do we exist?
Like we provide executivecoaching, executive team
development.
But because, because I am who Iam.
(23:20):
My purpose is to be a lightnaturally.
I am thinking about, as I'mbuilding my team and bringing
people into my business andcreating a culture that's,
that's just happening, right?
Because I'm intentional.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm thoughtful abouttreating the people that I work
(23:41):
with, like humans andrecognizing their humanity.
Right.
So.
This has come up on otherepisodes where there's an
acknowledgement that when Istart the business, it's purpose
driven but over time, thebusiness loses its soul is how
it came up.
(24:02):
Mm.
You know, so I'm imagining a 30,50, 80, a hundred year old
company.
And gosh, does the, does thepurpose get buried?
Well, and but how, but isn'tthat interesting that the same
thing happens with individuals?
Mm-hmm.
So I have a picture of my8-year-old self hanging in my
(24:23):
bedroom.
So I, in December of 2023, Iexited a 10 year marriage that.
As a marriage in which I justlost myself, I've very much lost
myself in that marriage.
I take responsibility for that.
So left the marriage recognizedI was through 2022 and 2023.
(24:47):
I was working with a therapistand doing a lot of work on just.
Some of my patterns and some ofthat, like capitulating and, uh,
not being, not being reallyhonest and clear about what I
want and need, particularly inclose relationships.
And so There was an exercise Idid where I just spent some time
(25:08):
reflecting on my eight to10-year-old self.
So I found this picture and shewas like bold and untethered and
free, and so I reconnected withher and so I hung that picture
on my bedroom wall so that I seeit every morning as a reminder.
So just like organizations wholose themselves, like so do we.
(25:33):
Yeah.
And, uh, yeah, I mean, and, andis that good?
Is that bad?
I don't know.
Is that just the experience oflife?
The good news is I recognizedit.
The good news is in thesesituations they recognize it and
can get back to it becauseRight.
We're doing the best we can.
I didn't set out to lose myself.
(25:55):
Mm-hmm.
They didn't set out to lose thesoul of the business.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, we've, we talked aboutthat parallel and as we grow up
there are these societal norms,these like, you should do this,
you should do that.
And over time, you know, theystart to.
to, bury your soul.
(26:15):
Right.
Yeah.
And, and the business losesitself.
And the, that happens inbusiness too.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and I actually wonderif it's some of the management
practices that happen where to,in order to create structure,
which is needed in business.
Yes.
I know does, does some of thatlose sight of, of purpose.
(26:36):
Most definitely it does.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I ha I I don't have any answersaround that.
I think it just, I think wherethere's a culture of.
Openness and just honestconversations about what people
want and need.
And we're working with amanufacturing facility right
(26:56):
now, and I'm coaching several ofthe department heads within the
manufacturing facility.
And there was a leader whowanted to go to a different
shift within the facility and.
The primary driver behind herwanting to do that was because
of childcare issues.
Okay.
(27:17):
And the business was going tomake the change because they
needed a good leader in thisshift position.
But then they found out, likejust through conversations, she
was honest about how that was sohelpful with her.
And so they asked her like,well, is that the reason you
want to do this?
And so then they, they put astop to it because they said,
well.
(27:37):
We can't, we can't do that forpersonal reasons.
Like it has to be a businessneed.
Oh.
Because if we made decisionsbased on everyone's personal
needs, it would be, it would betoo hard to manage.
And it just, that felt so off.
Right.
To me.
Yeah.
(27:57):
That is a good example of, it's.
Practices getting in the way.
Yeah.
So she is now very disillusionedwith the organization and is
definitely a flight risk as aresult of that.
Mm-hmm.
And that mindset of, that's astory that that company tells
(28:18):
themselves about, about.
its.
It's, too hard to manage all thepersonal interests.
Right, right.
And, and I did, I talked to thehr, I just, I, I, I sought to
understand.
Mm-hmm.
I went to the HR lead and, hey,like, through conversations this
has come up, I'm just curious.
And she very quickly said like,yes, that is, that is our
(28:38):
policy, right?
Like, we cannot make thosedecisions based on personal
need.
Oh.
And I just said, well, thatwould've been really helpful for
her.
and, and, for And for you reallyas a business, right?
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that's, it's a greatexample actually.
(29:00):
'cause I do think things likethat can get in the way of
people bringing their fullselves to work, right?
I understand there's two thingsbalancing here.
The business Yes.
And the people and, and it is abalancing act.
You know, it's never juststatic, right.
(29:20):
It's a constant state ofalignment.
But it is, yeah.
It's for talent and HR leaders.
It's a constant like, likeparadox, navigation.
Mm-hmm.
You've got business needsprotecting the organization,
mitigating risk.
Mm-hmm.
And then you've got people andtheir needs and it is.
(29:40):
Those things are often inconflict as this, this example
provides.
Yeah.
You know, so it's, it'sunderstanding both perspectives.
I also think it's easier insmaller organizations, right?
It's easier to manage thatbecause there's less risk.
Yeah.
The bigger the organizationgets, the organization opens
(30:01):
itself up and that's when westart seeing like really
doubling down on it is thepolicy.
I.
Right.
But if the policy sucks, thenlike avoid the stupid policy.
Right.
Exactly.
Well, okay, here's a question.
Do companies take the time to,to look at their policies and
(30:25):
see if they're in alignment withtheir purpose.
To me, that would be a purposedriven company.
We're gonna be intentional aboutthe policies, the procedures,
with our purpose in mind.
How do you differentiateorganizational purpose with
mission and vision?
(30:46):
I, that's a great question.
I have the same question.
Um, I, I, and I don't know theanswer.
Because for me, traditionallymission is why we exist.
Okay.
And, and as we've been havingthe conversation, Leslie, I've
been, I've been like, almostlike interchanging those mm-hmm.
Mission and purpose.
And most organizations.
(31:09):
You document and providevisibility to mission vision?
Yes.
I don't, I don't often see, ormaybe I've just not been looking
for it.
Our, like, this is, this is ourpurpose, Uhhuh.
You see the, some companies haveit.
Okay.
You see the language.
I do think mission, vision,vision is more common.
(31:29):
Mm-hmm.
Um, yeah.
And values.
I do.
You know, now that we're havingthe conversation, I like, I
almost think of the combinationof mission, vision, values as
purpose.
I think all of it, because it'sall different aspects of who we
are as an organization.
Yeah, yeah.
Values come up.
And in the, conversations I'mhaving with season two.
(31:50):
Yeah.
It's how we live our who we are.
Right.
What we stand for.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How we treat each other andcustomers and, mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But let's take those, so let'sput the word purpose aside.
Okay.
And let's call it mission.
Mm-hmm.
How much are companies weighingthe things, the practices they
(32:11):
put in place?
Up against their mission andasking the question, are these
in alignment?
Yeah.
I mean, I'm, I'm thinking ofexamples where they, they do and
examples where they don't, youknow, when, when, whenever there
is a strong talent or HR leader,absolutely they are doing that.
Okay.
But it is often policies areviewed as a tactical
(32:36):
administrative activity.
I mean, there are lots ofexamples where I've seen people
just like download a handbook,like a generic handbook and
maybe spend 10 minutes updatingor customizing it just so they
have a handbook.
Right.
And then there are lots ofpolicies that then don't make
sense for them.
(32:57):
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, and you mentioned the HRleader, is that who?
whos Owns in quotes, purpose orNo?
I mean, I think Or mission.
What I see happening a lot areHR and talent leaders are
facilitating the development ofthose things across the
business, ensuring that thosethings are visible and mm-hmm.
(33:22):
That, like that for me, mission,vision, values has got to come
from the, the top.
Mm-hmm.
For sure.
Mm-hmm.
And then be something that allof the leaders are owning,
right?
Yes.
Yeah.
Which is, I, I love takingexecutive teams through that
process of developing mission,vision, values.
It's always an interestingexercise.
(33:43):
'cause I always startpersonally, I think if they can
see themselves in it.
And put themselves in it, it'sgonna have much more meaning.
Right.
So I'll start with a, like apersonal values clarification
and then, okay.
'cause this is the group ofpeople that is setting the tone.
So what shared values do wehave?
(34:05):
Like if, if wherever we go,there we are, then those shared
values are what really is gonnadrive this organization.
And so it's an interesting,it's, it's a, it's an
interesting take.
'cause then they're like, well,but.
It's the organization.
Well, well, yes, but it's whoyou are in the organization.
Right?
And these are your core values.
So that's how you're gonna showup.
Love that.
(34:26):
Mm-hmm.
So fast forward two years aftersomeone does this, what are the
outcomes, Yeah.
When I think when done well,mission, vision, values becomes.
The glue that binds all of yourprocesses.
I mean, as you said, like then,okay.
Is the, are the expectationsthat we're setting of team
(34:49):
members and leaders aligned withwho we are and where we're
going?
Are we bringing people into theorganization based on who we are
and where we're going?
Are we managing performance andcoaching based on who we are and
where we're going?
Are we exiting people because oflack of alignment to who we are
(35:11):
and where we're going?
I think it becomes thefoundation for all of our talent
processes.
Yeah.
If done well, one of the thingsthat came out of season one,
which was focused on individualswho have clarity in their
purpose and are activelypursuing it.
One of the things that came outis they had rituals where they
(35:35):
would, use the time tounderstand themselves.
They had this real sense of selfunderstanding, this is who I am,
this is what I'm, I'm about, andthey had practices that gave
them that self understanding.
When we think about company'smission, vision, values, are
(35:56):
there certain rituals?
That exist in business thatallow the business to stay
centered on their.
Purpose and in alignment withthem.
I, I think what, what a greatpoint you're making.
I think it's having rhythmswhere we're giving visibility
and talking about who we are andwhere we're going.
(36:18):
Mm-hmm.
Those bigger picture things.
Yes.
So, so much of the town hall andthe communication are updates.
Tactical things, connect themback mm-hmm.
To who we are and where we'regoing.
That provides so much moremeaning for people.
Right.
So take existing things.
Yes.
(36:38):
And, and images are huge.
So I mentioned MasterCard.
The, the business operationsfunction is a team that I've
spent a lot of time with, andthey're led by a brilliant
leader.
And they have adopted thepenguin as their mascot.
Oh.
And so in all of theircommunications at team meetings,
(37:01):
they use penguins.
And that imagery createsconnection and reminds people of
who we are and where we're goingand.
And it's fun and it's unique andit's different and it sets them
apart and yeah, when, and it,see, I'm, in my mind, I'm seeing
it always present.
(37:21):
Yes.
Like it always has a.
A place in the environment.
You got it.
And just that image then canremind them, yes, I'm a part of
business operations and this iswhat we're about.
Right.
I love that.
Yeah.
So that's, that's another way.
Mm-hmm.
It's, it's like, it's makingmeaning of it.
It's bringing it to life.
Right.
(37:41):
And words don't, words don'tteach experiences do.
Mm-hmm.
Images, conjure feelings, and,um, experiences that we've had
and.
So it, it takes some creativity,but leaders really thinking
about how do I bring this tolife Right.
In a meaningful way for peoplethat they can connect with.
Exactly.
Yes.
(38:02):
Okay.
We've talked about, um,individual purpose and how it
shows up in the workplace andhow leaders.
have a responsibility to fosterthe environment and the
individuals have aresponsibility of sharing, of
bringing themselves, bringingthemselves yes.
Into the environment.
(38:23):
Anything else on the topic ofpurpose in the workplace that's
on your mind?
You know, what's coming to mindfor me is this, this sacred
space that is created.
I love a good Venn diagram andso my team and I have been
playing with this Venn diagramas we're thinking about the
(38:48):
impact of the leader on theorganization.
So imagine a Venn diagram, thesethree circles.
One circle is the leader, onecircle is the like the team, the
employee base.
One circle is the organization,the organization's health.
I think we could put purpose inthat, right?
But also financial health.
(39:10):
Absolutely.
And we all wanna be a part of awinning team.
So think about where those threecircles overlap.
There's this sacred space, likethat's culture.
That could also maybe, maybethat sacred space is purpose,
but it requires the leader tobring themselves and to continue
(39:32):
to grow themselves because thenthe growth of the leader, the
team, and the organization,there's this dependency.
That I'm, I'm much more able togrow as the organization and the
team are growing.
The team is able to grow and bebetter as I'm growing and the
(39:53):
organization is doing better.
And then naturally theorganization grows as the leader
and the team Yes.
Grows.
Yes.
It ex That then is blowing up.
It's blowing up.
It's just growing, right?
Yeah.
But if the organization isgrowing at the expense of the
leader in the team.
Like that sacred space is notgonna grow.
Exactly.
(40:13):
Right.
Yes.
Gets it does require, gets allof them to grow together.
Rightt growing together.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Growing together.
There's, that's good.
Yes.
That's good.
So how do you create thatthough?
The, the overlap of all?
I know we've talked about someof this already.
Well, that's why I work withexecutive teams because I think
(40:33):
it starts there, you know?
Yeah.
I mean, it, it is alsoimportant.
The emerging leader work is soimportant.
Mm-hmm.
You know, every leadership iseveryone's business in the
organization, but if you look atlike what group or leader has
the biggest impact on theculture and the environment, it
(40:55):
is most definitely that seniorteam.
Yeah.
You know, and don't just let itexist on its own.
Yes.
But really have Yes.
An outside party come in andwork objectively with the
leverage team to, to help youtell the truth.
Yes.
Because,'cause what's funny toois when I work in organizations
and I hear them talk about theirsenior team, it's, it's like
(41:15):
they think they have it figuredout and everyone is struggling.
There is not a CEO or a seniorleader.
That is feeling like soconfident about who they are.
And in all of the moments oftheir days, like no, they're
questioning themselves.
They feel like an imposter.
They don't really know whatthey're doing, right.
(41:37):
They're doubtful.
And so having a, having a safespace to first acknowledge that
and then navigate the struggle Ionce heard, um.
I once heard someone say, youare only as sick as your
secrets.
And there's something about thatI don't quite love.
But what I like about it is whenwe suffer in silence, I know
(42:01):
that it does so much damage toour person ourself.
And so being, being willing tosay like, I'm struggling here.
I don't know.
Right.
I mean, that's, that's the hugevalue of executive coaching is
that's the space that executivecoaches create.
Yes.
Is you can say whatever, right.
That's right.
(42:22):
Anything else?
Any other advice?
It always goes back to before wehit record, you and I were
talking about this, this themeof trusting yourself.
Mm-hmm.
And in my desire to be a light,I know that my gifting is not
about like teaching anyoneanything.
I'm a facilitator and so.
(42:44):
My work is always pointingpeople back to the truth within
them.
So my advice is always trustyourself.
Be willing to, get quiet andlisten to your internal guidance
system.
'cause you have all the answersyou need within you.
Yeah.
Thank you for being on PurposeProject.
(43:05):
Thanks for what you're doing.
This is, this is such goodexploration work.
Yeah.
I think these kinds ofconversations always, I am
always walking away with so manymore questions, which is a good
thing.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Thanks for what you're doing.
Thank you.
Appreciate you.
You too.
Leslie (43:25):
After this conversation with Andrea.
There was a word that just keptechoing in my mind, and that
word is responsibility.
I.
When it comes to our personallives, we carry the full
responsibility for discoveringand living our life of purpose.
But in the workplace, that'sdifferent.
(43:48):
Purpose becomes a sharedresponsibility.
It's a collective effort.
It's about creating a culturewhere people feel safe,
supported, and seen so they canbring their whole selves to
work.
Their whole selves, whichincludes their individual
purpose and that kind ofenvironment.
(44:10):
It doesn't happen by accident.
It takes intention.
It takes leadership.
It takes the responsibility atthe highest levels of the
organization.
And so if you're a part of anorganization, ask yourself, what
role can I play in cultivatingpurpose, not just for myself,
(44:32):
but for my team and for thosearound me.
Because when purpose is shared,it becomes something powerful.
It becomes a place where peoplewant to go and grow together.
Andrea, thank you for being onPurpose Project, and thanks to
all of you for tuning in.
(45:01):
Purpose Project is brought toyou for education and for
entertainment purposes.
This podcast is not intended toreplace the advice that you
would receive from a licensedtherapist or doctor or any other
qualified professional.
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