A Christmas Carol - All Time Cast: From Dickens to Modern Adaptations - Quantum Recast: Your Favorite Films, Recast In Different Years

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome, welcome to another episode of Fa la la, la,
la, la, la, la la.
Quantum Recast, quantum Recast,the Christmas edition we did it
, we made it to Christmas, yourfavorite episode every year it
is Cory's favorite episode.
No Halloween, I like Halloween.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Got it, got it.
We just have to get you someChristmas spirit here, corey,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yeah, which is what we're here to talk about today,
because we're going to talkabout a Christmas carol.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Which Christmas carol Corey?
There's like 500,000 of them.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
We're going to talk about as many as possible.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
There are a lot, even as we so obviously this episode
we just want to talk about AChristmas Carol and just the
different versions and thingslike that.
But as I dove in, you kind oflift up a rock and you're like,
oh my God there's so many,there's just too many.
Even me.
I was like there's what,there's like two dozen of these,
and then you're like no,there's just like a hundred,
there's hundreds.

(01:18):
There's like episodes, like TVshows did episodes on the
premise of yeah, there's aflintstones one there's like a
jetson's one.
I probably I don't know there is.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, it's a, really a one.
Okay, all right, the ghost ofchristmas future is a robot.
Oh okay, computer, it's a.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
I don't get it man, like they're already in the
future and they already have arobot but it's their future.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
It's the future future.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah it's better than that, maid right, yeah, rosie,
rosie, that's right, but like so, um, but mainly what we want to
do because we're on this, onthe show we like to recast.
We were going to just do anall-star version, since we're
going to go through the maincharacters of christmas carol
and talk about which ones wethink are best yeah, through
each one that have been for themovie versions.
But disclaimer we haven't seenthem all they're right, because

(01:58):
it's a herculean task becauseit's kind of impossible.
Yeah, I mean, someone out thereis going to write a book one day
, but at that point, at somepoint, the book's going to get
like what is it?
What are they obsolete becausethey're just going to keep
making more and more.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, apparently, this and oliver twist is the
most uh remade are you serious?

Speaker 1 (02:13):
adapted charles dickens.
Oh, okay, I thought.
Okay, I thought you're justgonna make movies in general I
was like oliver twist.
I didn't know there was thatmany okay I mean it's, it's,
it's probably up there.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
I kept trying to find like a number and obviously,
because they keep makingversions of it, there just isn't
a number.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
I haven't even seen a version of Oliver Twist.
I've never read Oliver Twist.
All I know is about an orphan.
That's it.
I've seen some versions of it.
I don't think I've ever Oliverand Company I've seen one of the
absolute worst Disney movies ofall time, like bottom tier,
like bottom 10 of song cory.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
The song's good.
I don't care.
After that it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, it's it's a dumb.
It's a dumb movie um it'sstarting real strong.
All I know is can we have moreplease?
Sure the empty bowl scene thatgets mimicked and everything
that's please yeah, that's all Iknow about.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Meanwhile, there's 130 000 christmas carol.
Uh, there's even I mean, it'salso split off there's.
There's re remakes of it.
There are new versions of it,there are like retellings of it
in different ways.
There's even movies about themaking of christmas carol.
It's kind of gone.
There's there's winnie the poohand peter pan have also done
this.
There's the regular retelling.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
There's like a movie about horror movie version of
oliver twist, because it's peterpan and no, I'm talking about
christ'm talking about ChristmasCarol, I'm saying with those,
there's the original Peter Pan.
Winnie the.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Pooh.
They have movies that came outrecently about the author who
was creating the stories.
But, they both also have thegrown-up story where it's like
Christopher Robin grows up,Peter Pan grows up.
So we need a Christmas Carolstory where Tiny Tim grows up.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Honestly, I'm just like sitting here like now just
thinking about how I've neverreally thought about how many
movies are about authors writingsomething.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
There's a Tolkien movie, tolkien movie.
There's the A Milne movie.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
There's the JM Barry movie.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
I'm sure there's a CS Lewis movie and there is the
man who Invented Christmas, theCharles Dickens movie.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Right, yeah, he has to do this movie about his
friendship with sigmund freud.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Oh with freud.
Yeah, like apparently they'refriends towards the end.
Okay, I didn't know he wasfriends with freud and so
there's then.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
That's like a recent movie okay, I haven't seen it
gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
So but like yeah, okay.
So I, and I'm assuming part ofthe problem is or not part of
the problem but a christmascarol, what, what do they call
that where it's so old that?

Speaker 2 (04:20):
you don't have to pay for it.
Oh yeah, there's no copyright,you don't have to pay for it.
There's a word for that.
No one owns it.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, and so it's like what Mickey Mouse now is.
Apparently, you can just useMickey.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Mouse, the old version, steamboat Willie,
steamboat Willie, regularMickey's.
You can make horror moviesaround Steamboat Willie, as has
already happened.
Has it really?
Batman becomes available soon.
Superman.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Public domain.
Public domain is the word I'mlooking for, and there's like we
can make a horror movie of thisin two days.
I actually watch Screamboat,screamboat, yeah, screamboat,
willie man Next year.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Comes out next year.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, and this is oh wow.
Apparently, there's like a.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
From the producers of Terrifier 2.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
I don't think Screamboat boat willie is part
of it, but like the, the oh,there's the shared universe.
There's a shared universe nowit's called like the poo verse
or something like that, but Iactually watched the sequel.
I didn't watch the first winniethe pooh horror movie it looked
way too low budget, but thesecond one they put a little
more into it tried a littleharder it's watchable, but it's
still really bad okay, well,they've done that.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
There's like a there's a grinch horror movie
too, like the mean one that cameout.
I haven't seen?

Speaker 1 (05:23):
oh yeah, okay, has.
Is there a horror movie versionof a christmas carol?
Just the guy richie, gritty,gritty verse uh, they're the
only.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
The closest thing I know of is that there was.
It was the guy.
Pierce miniseries which was itwas less horror and it was just
more like really nihilistic andjust it was just real gritty,
real gritty when we're makingeverything great, yeah, yeah,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
So all right, all right.
So, nick, we got to talk a lotabout christmas carol.
Christmas carol, sorry, sorry,sorry, christmas carol,
apologies um, where do you wantto start and talking about?

Speaker 2 (05:54):
I guess I guess we start at the beginning, like the
book itself.
Like the book sure, I'll giveyou a quick little little
rundown of it, if you will Iread it for this podcast I read
it.
I read it just on its own like10 years ago.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
I mean, I read it like 10 years ago, but I read, I
like I re-upped on it.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
Okay for this podcast well, it's a novella, so it's
only 300 pages.
It's less than 300 pages?

Speaker 1 (06:11):
yeah, it's not, it's like, it's like 90 pages okay
okay, let's see, let's lookanyone who has a whole like a
book that look that, that theprint is huge yeah so if
anyone's just rocking aChristmas Carol on their
bookshelf 116 pages.
And it looks like it's 400pages.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
That's a lie.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
That book's a lie.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
It's not true.
You call that person out onthat and just say, oh, come on,
but A Christmas Carol.
Corey released on December 19th1843.
Oh man this has been publicdomain for a minute 181 years
ago, corey, in a couple of daysfrom now.
The original title titlechristmas carol in prose being a
ghost story of christmas uh,written by the charles dickens
in early victorian era.
It was kind of part of whatchristmas is already becoming

(06:49):
repopularized during this periodof time christmas trees, things
like that and so he dove intothat and there's a lot of uh
motivation behind his upbringing.
You know he was, he grew uppoor and stuff, but also it's
it's a work of social commentaryum which you probably are aware
of.
It's.
You know he had a lifelongdevotion to the undeserved due
to his own family's experienceswith debtors prison.
So okay dude has, uh, dude had ahard life.

(07:11):
Um, it forced him to drop outof school as a kid and work at a
factory, but he was.
He had seen, like uh, one ofthe mines or something where the
kids working at and he wanted.
Basically, he's trying to getquote unquote to help the open
the hearts of the prosperous andpowerful towards the poor and
powerless.
He's trying to get quoteunquote to help open the hearts
of the prosperous and powerfultowards the poor and powerless.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
He's just writing documentaries before
documentaries.
Right, he's going to writefiction.
He's going to write adocumentary about how horrible
things are.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Tiny Tim has just got the black clone.
It turns out, or something.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
And so From working in the mines.
Yeah, he wrote a lot of ghoststories.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Dickens was into ghosts, which is kind of was
into ghosts, which is kind ofit's.
I think that's something peopledon't realize or they kind of
forget about.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
A christmas carol is that it is a ghost story, it is
like, and it should be treatedas such yeah, like I don't own a
book of the christmas carol, Iown the complete collection of
charles dickens ghost stories,so it's just in there.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Okay, he wrote a lot nice okay, well, apparently,
yeah, there was a big victorianlike gothic horror was a big
deal yeah and like people reallyleaned into it.
Um, there's no imdb scores, sono true useless critic stats,
but according to uh,contemporary, views of it no.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
Read all the critic stats for every version no no,
we don't have time.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, we don't have time, cory.
Give the people what they wantwe don't even know how many
there are.
But uh, you know, uh, at thetime of its release, apparently,
the reviews were almostuniformly kind, it says.
The illustrated london newsdescribes how the story's
impressive eloquence isunfeigned lightness of heart.
It's playful and sparklinghumor, it's gentle spirit of

(08:35):
humanity.
All put the reader in goodhumor with ourselves, with each
other, with the season and withthe author.
It's a lot of words tobasically say it's heartwarming
yeah, what's the modernequivalent?

Speaker 1 (08:45):
like forrest gump, maybe, like you just feel good,
like I feel good I mean it'salso uh, I mean uh, it's a
wonderful life.
You could say it's like it'snot modern man, that's old
that's, that's more modern than1843.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
I mean, that's true that's true, that's true.
Um, all right, okay, cool, soeven at the time it was, it was
well received, but, butapparently the first edition
sold out by Christmas Eve and bythe end of 1844, 13 editions
had been released, priced atfive shillings, which is equal
to $40 in 2024.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Dang.
So Charles Dickens just becameScrooge.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Well, apparently he won like a higher quality book
and he was the one that paid forthat, I guess because he
thought he was going to get moremoney for it.
But he ended up getting like230 pounds only for the first
edition which is equal to$36,000 now.
Hey, so that's pretty, that'snot bad.
That's more than I've ever madeoff anything I've ever made,
exactly.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Good job, charles Dickens.
All right Cool, also known forTale of Two Cities and what's
the other Great Expectations?

Speaker 2 (09:41):
And was the other Great Expectations, the other
massive For a dude that droppedout of school.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
He just wrote massive novels.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
He's like.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
I'm going to write about all this, just very, very,
very complex novels about theclass system in England.
I love it Okay.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
And that's pretty much what this is right here.
Yeah, for sure, it's a bunch ofghosts bullying an old man into
giving his money away, which iswhat we need to do, Cor.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
We need to bully people.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Bully people into giving away their money.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
You know sure, Recent events have shown that there
are scary things going on.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
I disagree with recent events.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
I think it's still not necessarily the right path,
but I would rather three ghostsvisit yeah we just need to get
some tech guys.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
We need to get some YouTubers to just go haunt A
nice haunting Corey.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Donald Trump just needs to be haunted.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
By George.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Washington, abraham Lincoln and a nice haunting cory
, not trump, by georgewashington, abraham, lincoln and
kennedy.
That's a good man.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Someone write that there's I think there was an snl
sketch that where he was it waslike a christmas carol but he
doesn't get redeemed becausehe's donald trump at any point?

Speaker 1 (10:38):
does he be like?

Speaker 2 (10:38):
I actually don't have money anymore, I'm I'm bankrupt
turns out I really needed towin this election, pretended to
have a lot of money okay, soanyways, um so okay, I, I uh,
what's the first version youever saw this?
The first version I've everseen.
Yeah, or?
What's your first engagementwith a christmas carol, I mean
it was kids shows like we weretalking about, like episodes of
tv.
I mean, probably it's gonna bemickey's christmas carol from

(11:01):
the 80s release or it's, or it'sprobably muppets.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
I feel like if you're a millennial, it's those two.
Yeah, it's either a muppet ormickey mouse, right um doing the
christmas.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Both quality versions , though incredible versions, no
for sure um, mickey's shouldget a lot of uh, a lot of praise
just for being condensing itinto a short.
Yeah, I mean it's 30 minutes orso but yeah, like everything,
it doesn't feel rushed by anymeans.
We kind of take a lot of thelove out.
Yeah, yeah, I do, I was.
I was gonna say that they do adecent job, kind of shortening

(11:30):
his whole story with bell andstuff and like placing daisy
duck there, like it's effectivestill no, for sure they do a
good job.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
Um, yeah, I'm gonna have to say the same.
It has to be like those twoversions for me.
Um, I think as you get olderyou start diving into other
versions or you know, newerversions come out and you just
kind of get into them.
I would have also seen scroogedat a very young age okay but
I'm honestly not sure.
The first time I saw scroogethat I realized it was a
christmas carol.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
I probably just thought it was a movie it didn't
connect the dots later in lifebecause they don't use any of
the names right, yeah, well,because I didn't watch scrooge,
I think, until college, when welived together.
I think that was one of thefirst times I watched it, which
we have done an episode onscrooge, we have it was from
season one.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Our only thing we've ever done that's christmas carol
related true, true, true.
For all I know, we're repeatingeverything that we said on that
episode I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Okay, I don't feel like anything's being read right
here, dived into uh a christmascarol.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Um, so a christmas carol.
It's interesting.
I was watching a lot ofversions that I've never seen
yeah uh in preparation for thisepisode same same and uh, I was
watching one with my wife andthen we also saw a play of it um
in dallas we saw.
Like dallas, they do a yearlyum version of the christmas
carol.
I guess I've been doing it forlike decades at this point nice

(12:42):
um, and we happen to be indallas for, uh, my wife's
birthday and I just saw thatthey were doing it for like
decades at this point.
Nice um, and we happen to be indallas for, uh, my wife's
birthday and I just saw thatthey were doing it.
So I said, hey, let's go seethis.
Um, and we watched it, and soI've seen a lot of christmas
carol in the past few weeks yeahum, kind of doesn't get old.
But my wife even does this thing.
You know, sometimes because mywife's not a creative, she's
very analytic or analyticalminded and stuff like that, and
she I'm like a, I'm like a thing, I'm like a freak to her,

(13:06):
because I'm a creative, soshe'll be like.
So we were talking aboutchristmas, carol, and she's like
what versions do you like?
What do you not like?
What do you like that this playdid, that you know that you
haven't seen in other versionsand stuff like that, and she's
like what would you change?
and I was like that's kind of aloaded question because, nick, I
think this might be a perfectstory go on I don't know it just
really I don't know.
I mean, like I know people haveadded, they've they've switched
things around.

(13:26):
There's all these little minorchanges to it, but other than
that it's kind of a perfectstory.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
I mean structurally.
It's really well put togetherbecause like you have massive
arc.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, the main character changes he's.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
He definitely goes from a clear you clearly
establish dude's bad to dude'sgood and not only is this change
like affect him, it affectseverything around him yeah which
is a lot of the times getsmissed.
And a lot of times we just see acharacter get better, but we
don't necessarily see thataffect everyone around him and
weirdly, like because in thefirst act you establish the
world, you establish him as whohe is and then, through even the
ghost of Christmas, past andpresent, you're seeing, like,

(13:57):
why he is the way he is.
Yeah, present to future.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
They do a good job at that Not only they establish
that he's a bad dude, thatScrooge is a dick, but they do
say but it's justifiable on somelevel.
To a degree, yeah, like thiskid got left at school.
It's not in the book but thereare versions, or actually maybe
it is in the book they switchthe ages of him and his sister I
know.
Yeah, but I can't remember ifit's in the book or not, but
some versions allude to the factthat his mother died giving

(14:22):
birth to him Right.
And therefore that's why hisfather hates him and his
father's like a drunk.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
That might have been a switch, like they did, I think
, in like the 1951 version, justto create more sympathy for him
.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
And I think in that same version which the play I
saw in Dallas seemed to liftfrom the 1951 version, the most
the one with Alistair Slade.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, the one with Alistair's sleep.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, yeah, and so because they also alluded to
that fan dies giving birth toFred.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah, and that's why he's kind of got some animosity
towards Fred.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
That he's just kind of creating a cycle, which but
that's what I'm saying, whetherthat's in the book or not that's
a good addition to a story.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
It created like something you know, and so I was
kind.
Think you, most of thesechanges add depth to some
characters because it's a shortnovella.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
But other than that, just the story in and of itself
is perfect.
You do get to see why Scroogeis the way he is, why it's
unfortunate that he became theway he was.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
But then we get this cool arc at the end.
Yeah, and it's, I would say,simple in nature, but it does it
very well and effectively.
That's why things like theMickey's Christmas Carol, the
cartoon episodes of shows, cando it all in 30 minutes, because
it's structurally set up likethat, even though it's written,
I believe, in like five acts orsomething.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yeah, it's still very easy to adapt to a three-act
structure that TV and movieslove, and so and I'll say this
the most impressive thing that AChristmas Carol accomplished
was it created its own genre ofChristmas.
It did.
It's Dickensian and we havelots of Dickensian Christmas
things, which means no Santa, noJesus.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, but what qualifies as a Dickensian?

Speaker 1 (15:58):
Well, essentially a change in character based on the
Christmas season.
Okay, so some supernaturalpotential elements, dickens
creates the idea that Christmasis its own spirit Almost you
know he kind of creates the ideaof the Christmas spirit this
wonderful time of giving rightand being selfless.
He kind of like takes it backfrom Santa.
Who's all about getting shitRight?
And then but then he alsodoesn't play too hard, other

(16:20):
than just kind of like a Churchof England level idea of Jesus
and God.
He doesn't really add that.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
That's not really part of the story.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Jesus doesn't show up and take Scrooge around.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
There's allusions to the afterlife, to damnation and
stuff, like, obviously, withMarley and the ghosts that pop
up outside the window and theneven at the end when he sees the
tomb, and a lot of versions arejust basically like hey,
there's a giant six hole, thatwhich leads to hell, basically.
But not to mention too likearound like eight, like the
Victorian era of England, youhave a lot of poverty and the
church not doing anything.
So people kind of like weren'thuge on the church at the time.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
You know the church of England at the time and so
like there's a.
That's probably one of thereasons Dickens didn't just go.
Well, what if Jesus just showsup and tells?
Then we round this out to likegoing back to the birth of jesus
and it's all being aboutsalvation, you know and
redemption.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
He could have done that because I think that's the
weird thing.
It's like, because it's it's he.
Like you said, he created thisidea of the spirit of christmas.
Yeah, like, not necessarily a athing, a person, whatever, a
ghost, but like the idea of likecarrying the spirit, the energy
of like goodwill and stuff andpersonifying it or really
attaching it to this one holiday.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Yeah.
So I mean like, okay, you havelike the Tim Allen verse of
Christmas movies.
He has the Santa Claus.
Those are Santa Christmasmovies.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
It's all about the Lord Santa.
So basically we got Santa Corps.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yeah, and then he has Christmas with the Kranks,
which is Dickensian.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
All the Christmas crap's in it.
Okay, yeah, you know, okay, youknow, I mean like you see santa
and all this and stuff likethat, but it's really about a
dude who wants to skip christmasbecause he just wants to
selfishly go on a vacationselfishly listen to being okay,
don't get me wrong I in mostchristmas movies I actually side
with the dad like pre-christmasspirit.
I'm like jake lloyd.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
The neighbors were the worst part of that.
They were like why, how couldyou not put up your christmas
together at the end, nick, andlike you, know, help the dude
out of a bind.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Dude, you're right.
You're right, it's.
It's a good movie.
Like they're insane.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
At first, I made my mom watch christmas with the
cranks this year for the firsttime ever and she's rooting for
this couple to go on the cruisethe whole time that's what I'm
saying like she hates theseneighbors and she hated the
ending.
That's the take.
I think that's the take we alltook from it was just like these
neighbors suck until theyneeded them because and then
yeah, but then it turns into aDickensian Christmas movie.
The spirit of Christmas takesover.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
You know, and Tim Allen sees like the importance
of community and like you knowwhat Christmas is really about.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Right, right, you know it's not a cruise.

Speaker 1 (18:29):
It's about, you know which is wild that that's
actually based on a John Grissomnovel.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Oh yeah, okay, it's called Skipping Christmas.
I own it.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Okay, ranks is okay.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
So just to recover our initial uh argument here
that what constitutes achristmas movie is that we've
got santa core, which is justall things santa and his lore
yeah, anything built in there.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, you have like the santa claus and there's
literally like a movie calledsanta.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
But you could have.
Like rudolph frosty goes underthere like anyone that's
attached.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yeah, santa core, if you got a song written about you
.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it'syour santa core and then we got,
and then we got.
Uh, we'll call it bible coreyeah, which is just, which also
has a lot of songs, yeahnativity lots of songs.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Uh, you know angels, we've heard on high all the good
stuff, anything.
Veggie night is an absolutebanger.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, it goes in, yeah so I'm probably top
christmas song of all time.
It, it, it hits but like it'sthe build but it's, it's, uh,
yeah, it's, it's all thenativity, like you know, and so
like that so then you haveDickensian, which you could
argue is kind of the start, very, very early start, of like the
modern Christmas story reallyit's a wonderful life.
Is Dickensian yes.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
I mean there's an angel in it yeah, but it's still
Dickensian well, I would saylike, whether it's supernatural
forces or not, some kind ofabove normal situation,
heightened situation for someoneto go through a transformative
purpose.
Jingle All the Way is the sameway.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Nick, die Hard is a Dickensian Christmas movie, you
are correct.
So just so everyone knows.
And everybody gets all bent outof shape about it.
It's.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Dickensian, we are a pro.
Die Hard is a Christmas moviepodcast.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yes, yes, pro that, yes, and stop showing the edited
clip of Bruce Willis sayingit's not.
He's just making a joke abouthow it's a Bruce Willis movie.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Right.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
He's not being serious, so stop cutting off the
end of that comment.
Well, bruce Willis said itwasn't a Christmas movie.
You?

Speaker 2 (20:09):
know what man.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Bruce Willis doesn't.
Don't be nice, be nice.
Yeah, I gotta be nice now.
Yeah, be nice.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
I gotta be nice now To really just to silence that.
And why Okay, we've alwaystalked about it has Christmas
songs, it's set at Christmas.
It takes place during ChristmasEve.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
You couldn't really put it.
There's so much Christmasmotifs in it.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah, so many motifs.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
The guy writes ho, ho ho, I have a machine gun.
He didn't have to be snarky ina Christmas.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
And usually people's arguments are like well you
could set it at any otherholiday use.
It's also a motivation, becausewhy does Bruce Willis'
character, John McClane, travelcross-country to go visit his
family?
You might do that for 4th ofJuly, but you have to do it
during Christmas.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah, it's Christmas.
He's spending Christmas withhis children.
It's the most logical thing,his marriage is falling apart
and then, through just thishorrible incident that takes
place on Christmas, his marriageis saved.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Right exactly Until part three, and he realizes how
important his family is untilpart three, and you know why.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
You know why, in part three, that his marriage is
falling apart.
I don't.
It takes place in july oh,there you go.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
There's no christmas now and we've talked about this
on our diehard episode, whichyou can also go listen to is
that diehard one is a christmasmovie, diehard two not a
christmas movie.
It's a movie that takes placeat christmas.
It's a winter movie.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
There's a difference, distinct difference it takes
place at christmas, but there'sno dickensian change right in
heart it's just action movieit's just hey, some terrorists
are taking over this airport andjohn mclean's got to go to work
right, that's all it is.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
That's all it is.
There's no, there's no journey.
Even macaulay culkin's uh homealone is dickensian yeah, it's
dickensian he's a he's spoiledbrat who wants everything to
himself his family disappears.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Learns the value of family sick of like.
Learns the value of family,yeah, and has to take out.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
You know, marvin Marvin.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Harry, yeah, yeah, for sure, so it's good.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, three, three categories guys.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
But that, my point being that Christmas Carol
created the idea of theDickensian.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
He kind of took I wouldn't call it mythos, but
just concept that there's aspecialness to the holiday that
has a quality.
It's it's borrowing thequalities of redemptiveness,
redemption, things of thatnature and and kind of.
It is also kind of like themirror opposite of the santa
stuff, because while santa,santa core, santa claus story

(22:20):
stuff isn't necessarily aboutcapitalism and presence and
stuff, it's built into it likethat's where it comes from.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
You know, it's like oh, if you're good, saying we'll
get you gifts and stuff andlike and like and to credit,
like charles dickens as a writerand like him unintentionally
creating something called thekensian um it's.
It's very much like he wrotesomething to be universal, yeah,
by kind of shying away from areligious side of it and shying
away from, like, the santatradition that was coming in at

(22:48):
the time.
Yeah, you know like yeah, we hadsanta, we had trees and all
this stuff and this ideas, butlike to kind of get away from
that and to like find a middlehe said we're not gonna make
this about christmas, theholiday we're not gonna make
about this christmas, the uhbirth of jesus sure he said
let's write it to where.
Whether or not you celebrateeither of those things, this is
a story for you.
It's very much Tolkien writingLord of the Rings.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
Lord of the Rings is not by any means Tolkien sitting
down saying I'm going to writethis allegory to the Christian
faith.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Right.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
He said I'm going to write a fantasy novel and
chances are my Christian faithis just going to come out.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
That was his whole.
Thing.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah, he's like.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
I, he didn't make a talking.
Jesus lion is what you'resaying.
Yeah, he didn't make Aslan.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
You know, CS Lewis could not do it, he tried.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
He tried.
Tolkien berated him for it, buthe continued.
He pressed on.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
So yeah, cs Lewis was a better nonfiction writer.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Court let me ask you before we move forward.
So you've talked about how youbelieve it's a perfect story.
We've dived into that a bit asmany different ones as we
possibly could at this point intime, and I'm sure there's more.
They're there.
Yeah, I would like to see, andmaybe the audience can tell us
or comment for us or slip intoour dms and let us know if they
know.
But the fact that this is aghost story, yeah I need like a

(23:55):
proper like horror version ofthis, not so much that like
we're going to lean into likethe modern schlock of horror.
But like give it that, give methe nostradont nosferatu version
that we're getting this year.
Like I don't I haven't seenthat movie yet but like kind of
more about the vibes, more aboutatmosphere, more about make.
Because like, growing up, likeeven the muppet, christmas carol
, like when they had the ghosts,like they were creepy, they

(24:17):
were scary to it to an extent.
Yeah, like they, they did notpull back because initially they
were like we're just gonna havegonzo and fozzie and miss piggy
or whoever scooter play theghost.
And then they're like no, let'stake this seriously, and like
their creations are actuallysome of the most like, at least
imprinted on my mind and a lotof millennials mind, like that's
what the ghost of christmas,past and future look like why
can't I think of the ghost ofchristmas past and muppets?

Speaker 1 (24:38):
the?

Speaker 2 (24:38):
past, is the little girl that's floating looks like
she's underwater.
That's's right, yeah, but she'sa flame because it's supposed
to be like a flame.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
Yeah, it's supposed to be a flame that's ageless and
she's kind of like a flame,yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
But in the Jim Carrey one it's like it's.
It's it's probably the mostaccurate to the portrayal with
the flame like a living flame,yeah, like a living flame, and
it yeah, closest to the originalstory, for sure yeah because
some of them, even like themickey, one will pull back on
those horror elements likeyou're not getting.
Remind me again the twochildren that are underneath the

(25:08):
ghost christmas presents, cloak, want and pestilence yeah you
don't get that because justbecause it's, it's more creepy
and stuff, so it doesn't work.
In a disney format, yeah, butlike I know there are versions
that have it and I'm the jimcarrey one has a lot of those
elements and so I think, like alive action it's.
It's the same argument of likewe need a good, like solid
version of Robin modern, solidversion of Robin Hood.

(25:30):
We kind of have those withPeter Pan's.
You don't need one at themoment.
There's tons of versions ofthat.
But I feel like you could get areally solid like big budget
Christmas Carol ignorance andwant ignorance.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, I was like, it's not pestilence, that's one
of the four horsemen.
Oh sorry, sorry, ignorance inone, got it, got it okay.
Um, yeah, no, I think that,like, like I, I do not know why
there's not like a traditionalhorror version of this,
considering, like I said, thehorror movie yeah, we're
blumhouse a24, somebody can wemake?
Public domain horror movies yesso you heard it here first um,

(26:03):
what about that movie that justlike uh, it's a wonderful knife,
was that like?
Was that a christmas carolthing?
oh, it's, I'm having to rememberwe we had a long conversation
about how uninspired the maskwas oh, it's just like the blank
white face.
Yeah it's just boring and it'sa dumb title for a movie.
It's a wonderful knife 2023.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Uh, horror comedy it's, uh, it's a spin on it's a
wonderful life okay, well, Iguess I should have taken that
from the title.
Instead of the lead characterrecognizing his previous good
deeds, the character discovershow many deaths they have
prevented in their town.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
like the main character, Interesting, okay,
but I don't know.
I just maybe the reason youcan't have a horror movie
version of this is becausethere's a redemptive ending man.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Well, that's what I mean, though, is like the best
versions tap into that horrorelement, so that not only does
Scrooge seem unredeemable, butlike his situation seems so
treacherous and so like downhillso fast, like you almost want
to believe, like there's no waythis guy can be redeemed,
especially given the fact thatno way this guy can be redeemed,
especially given the fact thatand I think, having more ghostly

(27:01):
, more horror element thingsgoing on, just it would be fun,
I think.
But it's definitely a balancingact.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
You would have to do something weird like Scrooge is
a serial killer and past takeshim to past victims.
Present takes him to the girlcurrently locked up in his
basement.
I just think future takes himto future victims.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
See, I think that's the blumhouse thing and I think
that's the mistake.
I think I think, again,nosferatu is like the, the tone
of that that we've seen so far,maybe.
I know it's probably gonna bevery edgy and like edgy and like
a we're pushing boundaries.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
It's really good.
Same same too.
Yeah, that's the christmasmovie I'm looking forward to.
Other than that, all I canthink about is just like a
krampus style movie, but insteadof toys and and santa core
monsters it's just the Christmasghost trying to kill them.
Sure, and so.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, I think that's.
I don't think, I don't thinkyou have to like make it a
slasher by any means.
I just think make it scary.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
You want a really gothic-y horror movie.
I just want some gothic-yhorror.
Okay, you just want like agothic-y yeah, a good, solid
gothic horror version All rightthat like, not a mini series
like yeah, you want somethingthat can go r.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, I want something a little r that go big
budget.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
So, like ghost christmas, future's horrifying
the christmas like albert finneydid in the 70 version that was
why I watched that thisafternoon and like a albert
finney I'm, I know a lot ofpeople.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
What I was reading about is, like most people don't
like this and I'm sadly, Iagree with them, because he is
like a character is a cartoonishversion of Scrooge.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
So I learned something this Christmas while
watching all these versions.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
But like everything there's an exception.
I think it's weird a little bitthat the Muppet Christmas Carol
is kind of universally the mostbeloved version of this movie.
Yeah, because it weirdly is, ittops most lists that I read and
that's by like non-millennials.
Yeah, just saying this oneworks.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
I believe, like the, either the london museum or
whoever is kind of looking overa lot of this charles dickens
stuff said like this is theclosest version to it that they
had seen so far, because theyuse the prose from from the
original book novella, and thenhaving gonzo play, charles
dickens literally just insertsthe narration by itself of all
the versions I see and I think2009 is the closest yeah to the

(29:05):
book.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Um, but again, I mean , I'm not a historian.
I think it does, I think it haslike.
You don't have elements likewhen marley comes to visit and
he comes out the window and youjust see tons, thousands of
ghosts, and that's horrifying,and that's terrifying and then,
like we said, not, notpestilence, but uh ignorance and
want the more grotesque thingsand are in the jim carrey
version um and so, uh, I lovethat we call it the jim carrey
version the robertson mccherryand the muppets are currently

(29:29):
holding the title for bestversions of the christmas carol
and a lot of people pointed tothe 1951 version.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
But it's just, it's the black and white tradition
it's.
It's a good version yeah, Ithink it holds its place, for
sure but back to my point, thething I learned about myself,
nick.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
But I do think the muppets do it right.
I don't like musicaladaptations of the story.
Sure, I didn't like the albertfinney songs.
They went on forever thescrooge 1970.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, albert finney version.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
I didn't like it.
It was really long um there'sgotta be catchy there was
another version of the musical.
Oh, like the play I saw saw wasa musical, I hated it.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
Okay, and and that was more like they didn't write
original music, they just triedto cram christmas carols like
very oblongly into it, like Ifeel like that would have
because we did a version incollege and I liked that one
because it uses the pros and itallowed everyone, like it was
more told by by group, by byensemble.
It wasn't just a narrator, it'slike different people were
coming in to tell the differentlines and stuff, or the
characters would say the lines.

(30:23):
Obviously, but I do it's kindof.
Yeah, I feel like if you'regonna put music in it, it has to
be like you just have carolersor people singing and it's a
transitioning at the piece orset change type stuff.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
But when you're doing like a movie, your muppets
christmas carol is probably theone that has the best songs yeah
, no, those songs are good likethey don't suck, they're pretty
good and so like, but I I prettymuch learned that I don't like
other musical versions of this.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Kelsey grammar has a musical one I saw that didn't
love it okay didn't love it, didnot like the songs there is
also the 2023 movie that cameout last year with gosling not
gosling ryan reynolds and willferrell, I haven seen it.
It's not as bad as I thought itwas going to be.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
Is it a Christmas?

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Carol, it's a version .
It's like a new spin on it.
It's a whole thing we take toolong to get into it.
I would, if you have time, giveit a shot.
I'm not going to say any morethan that.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
I'm almost 40.
I'm running out of time.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Okay, well, try one more time.
I'm running out of time forWill Ferrell Before you lock in
all your movies and go these aremy movies.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
I'm just going to re-watch these until I'm dead,
so, but okay, I did learn.
I don't love the musicalversions of this but the Muppet
Christmas Carol is an exception.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
The songs don't suck, it's also the Muppet like
you're not going to be that madabout a Muppet singing but they
also sing catchy songs.
Right, they were.
They were a normal length.
It wasn't like there's a 10minute version.
It's like it's oh my gosh,let's let's okay, let's go.
But can we talk about the tripto hell that he goes on like
they might as well just kind ofcall the scrooge goes to hell
like the jason goes to hell ofthe series because and it's a

(31:51):
weird 1970s hell like a wildversion yeah, because he gets
locked in a room, you know it's,it's the, it's the, it's a
proper, you know Dante's Infernotype hell because he's being,
his punishment is tied to hissame situation because he's
basically in a freezing roomdoing the same work for Satan.
I guess they don't know thatBob Cratchit was doing for him.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
And that would be one of those things where I would
say that's a misstep whensomeone tried to add something.
Yeah, you know like again, likefor better or for worse.
Know, like again, like forbetter, for worse.
So I've seen things that I'mlike this makes the story better
.
And I've seen things that arelike because to me hell is like
okay, you brought jesus, kind ofinto it you kind of gotten it
off the track of this universalthing to where, like I mean like
technically, in the christianfaith, we don't really talk that
much about ghosts as anafterlife right.

(32:30):
You know, and this is like notlook, jacob marley's punishment
is in hell.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
It's to walk around the earth carrying all these
boxes around and wanting to helppeople, but he can't.
It's, uh, the 51 version.
I watched today, the albertfinney one.
Right, or is it?
No, that's that's alistairalistair, but his uh marley was
pretty.
The way that they introducedhim was the slow tyrannosaurus
rex in jurassic parkway, whereyou hear the chains being
dragged and before you even seehim, and then the door kicks

(32:54):
open.
You don't even see him yet andI was like that's pretty
effective yeah, no, that waspretty good.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
Um, what else can we say about this?

Speaker 2 (33:01):
that it's somehow.
Yeah, even though you watchmultiple versions of it and
they're using a lot of the samelines, there's always.
It's always interesting towatch them because you're trying
to find, like, okay, what didyou do differently or what did
you like?
Now, the miniseries fx showwith guy pierce, it's kind of
doing what you're talking about.
It's like it.
He was trying to add too muchand it was modernizing it and
making it gritty to a pointwhere, like there's, if I'm

(33:22):
remembering correctly, there'slike illusions that he was
sexually abused at school orthat fan was, or something.
Okay, yeah.
And then there's I'm prettysure it sets up the idea that
Mrs Cratchit, or that either shecheats on Bob, or that to help
Bob she is forced into a badsituation with Scrooge, or

(33:43):
Scrooge tries to force himselfon her, or something.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
I can't remember the exact details, I won't watch
this version.
You're making it too gross.
It's a lot.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
It's a lot Because I thought it was going to be more
the gothic horror and you'regoing to get a lot of cool
supernatural stuff, but it wasmore like Like no, no, we're
trying to make it modern.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
That sounds just like being gross for the sake of
being gross, kind of, yeah, likeedgy for the sake of edgy, and
he doesn't.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
He isn't quite the payoff isn't.
As there he's still kind ofit's all too realistic.
They tried to do the well.
No, this is how it actuallywould be.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
They Nightmare on Elm Street, remaked it.
Yeah, when they allude to itand then in 2010 they make,
remake the movie and they justblatantly say it and you're like
this is gross, I don't want towatch okay, no, this isn't funny
, no no, you got to just alludeto it.
You, just now, you just madefreddy krueger just this, which
is funny to say, but you madehim this horrible thing.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Well, you made the child killer worse wow guys, you
made the villain too much of aquiet thing out loud, come on um
, but like, uh, you know, so Iit is what it is, but yeah, that
sounds gross.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
I'm not gonna watch that version now.
Um, okay, nick, I want to talkabout some of the things I like
and don't like okay fromversions I've seen um and then I
want to.
I want to end with things inthe book that I have never seen
in a movie.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Okay version cool Version, Cool cool.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
Despite the hundred versions, there's scenes that
I've yet to never see.
Yeah, and so I watched the 1938version by the way Okay With
Reginald Owen Owen Scrooge.
And I thought it was reallygood.
One of the things I reallyloved about it is Bob is
straight up fired.
Okay, Like at the beginning ofthe movie.
Just like you know in the book.

(35:20):
It's like, hey, another wordout of you and you'll lose your
situation, Right, right.
You know, no, no, scrooge islike straight up Bob pisses him
off.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Oh, it's because he hits.
He hit Scrooge with a snowballand Scrooge is walking home Dang
.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
It's like with Tiny Tim and the gang, and then bam,
right in the face.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
Then he gets fired and I like that because the rest
of like now when we see Bob inthe rest of the movie he's
afraid to say anything.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
He's afraid to tell his family like, dude, we are
screwed.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
That's really yeah, that's kind of and I kind of-
like it because Bob Cratchit isalso like kind of spiraling and
he's like okay the money's out,but we're still gonna buy the
stupid duck.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
We're still gonna buy , yeah, um, the goose, the tree,
the roasted, you know, uh, nutson the open.
He's still like.
We're still gonna celebratechristmas, yeah, you know the
whole time.
He's freaking out though, likeon the on the inside, and I
thought that was a nice twistyeah, because the only thing you
lose with that is the wholetrick that scrooge plays on him
when he's like comes to work thenext day and he's trying to act
like I told you to be here andtrying to act like I told you to
be here and trying to act me in, and still before the turn, he
reveals himself and be like hey,I'm not a bad guy anymore.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Well, that kind of jumps to a question I have, Nick
.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Do you like that?
The original ending, theDickens ending which is that.
Bob comes back to work the nextday.
He's kind of late and Scroogedoes the joke like yeah, I'm
going to punish you by raisingyour salary and and I'm gonna
help your family and blah, blah,blah, or do you like?
You see, in some versionsscrooge goes and parties with
the cratchits instead of fred is.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
It is that what happens in the in the book is
that fred goes to see thecratchits no, no, I'm talking
about scrooge goes to thecratchits rather than fred's
right.
Well, like in the scroogemcduck version he goes to.
He goes to bob's, he goes tomickey mouse's house and parties
with them, and in the Muppetversion he does both.
He shows up stops by the partyduring the song and then shows
up.
So there's two kind of endingsthat are traditional.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
There's the actual Dickens version, where it's Bob
shows up the next day late andall he did was send the goose
and all the presents.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
I think it's just, it's more fun when he shows up
the house, especially the like,everybody gets a piece, so let's
go.
So like when the he knocks onthe door and he's acting like
old scrooge and mrs piggy, asmiss cratchit is ready to like
knock out, and that because ifyou, if you make it about like
that bob got fired and he showsup the next day and acting like,

(37:29):
hey, you owe me money orsomething, I think it helps to
give emily cratchit, bob'swife's, more to do, because she
could stand up for bob and maybein that moment, maybe before
that moment, she's learned oh,we're poor or something and so
um, I think in the 38 versionshe's only we're poor.
She's learned that we're.
We don't have a job in the 38version.
He goes to Cratchit's housewith the goose and Fred goes

(37:49):
with him it's the only versionI've seen where everyone ends up
we're going to Camden town andwe're getting down because,
because Fred seems, see, Iwouldn't say well off, but it
seems like he's comfortable,it's confusing.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
It's confusing.
Fred is the most confusing partof this whole thing because in
every version he owns a home ina pretty nice looking home.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
But Scrooge calls him penniless or calls him poor, a
lot Right.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
And I don't know if that just means by Sc.
George lives frugally Like helives in some like dump.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Well, he lives like in a mansion that he just
doesn't take care of it's likeMarley's.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
I think in the book he just bought Marley's house
Because it was cheap.
He's like I'll just live herebecause nobody wants to buy a
dead guy's house.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Oh, in the book he's renting out the rooms to offices
and stuff.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying you could rent with me
or something like save yourmoney kind of thing but he's
like no, I want to start afamily and all this stuff.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
Anyways, I like bob getting fired.
Also in this version and thishappens in other versions fred
is like he meets tiny tim goingto scrooge's okay and that kind
of creates more of like thisweird, like I think insular,
like insular kind of thingbetween cratchit and uh, because
in the book there's a quote andI've heard it in some versions
where Bob is talking about Fredcame to Tiny Tim's funeral or

(39:01):
whatever and just said hey, I'mreally sorry to hear about that.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
Because it's clear that Fred knows.
It's as if he knew Tiny.
Tim.
Yeah, it's clear that Fredknows Bob.
And in the version I justwatched I think it's the 51
version he does ask hey, how'syour son doing so?
I like that we introduced TinyTim earlier.
Yeah, doing so.
I like that we introduced tinytim earlier.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yeah, because like you get to know him a little bit
and there's more connectivetissue of these people that
should know each other.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, it's not.
It's not a star wars likeeveryone's connected kind of
thing, it's like no, thesepeople literally live around the
same.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
Yeah, and I like that .
And the only other thing I likeabout that version and it's
mainly, uh, I my thing is, Ithink the 38 version does the
things a lot of things I like.
The 51 version does a lot ofthings I don't like.
I'm going next so the 38version.
The last thing I like is thatFred actually isn't married yet.
He's getting married, okay, um,but he can't afford to get
married because that parallelscrew and then at the end,
scrooge makes him partner, okay,you know.

(39:50):
Just says, hey, you're nowMarley, essentially because
there's wait.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
So in that in the movie he makes him partner yeah,
in the 1938 version he makesCratchit partner right.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
I don't even think he does that in the book okay I
think I've always wanted to seecratchit made partner there's
versions of version and I'venever seen it.
There's versions where he's thehe becomes partner see, I I
haven't seen that version, thenbecause I?
Because I always think like,hey, dude, marley's name still
on the board and like that'sjust waiting for scrooge to have
a moment to replace marleyright, you know, and but it
makes sense though either way.
This is the only version I canthink of where Scrooge pulls the

(40:20):
trigger on that and makessomeone else partner.
And that was Fred the 51version's weird.
It is a little weird.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
It's a little weird.
It's like it's a traditionaltelling of it.
What are the parts that youdon't?

Speaker 1 (40:31):
It's weird because the 51 version's the other
version outside of the MuppetChristmas car that I see get top
of the list a bunch.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Yeah, same.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
And don't get me wrong, Alistair Sims does a
really good job.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
And I noticed it seems like Jim Carrey's version.
He's kind of riffing off ofAlistair's portrayal.
I think so a little bit.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
But the things I don't like is they do a lot with
the past.
Again they kind of allude toScrooge killed his mom in birth.
Don't get me wrong.
That's actually not a bad ideato add that depth to there right
and give a reason why his dad'sjust thrown him in some
boarding school and leaves himby himself every christmas and
then the whole fred thing.
That's actually a cool thing.
That's not one of the things Ihate.
I think that's a good addition.

(41:07):
I don't like all the stuffaround like he and marley do a
hostile takeover of fezzy wigs.
Right, like he just like.
Why do we have to add that hewas like it kind of takes away
from, like when he sees Fezziwigthe first?

Speaker 2 (41:19):
time he's excited.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
there's Fezziwig, that's awesome he doesn't think
about like dude, I screwed thatguy over Cause in the books and
the rest of the versions.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
Fezziwig is like the first sign of like.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
Oh, this is the first person in his life that he was
like inspired.
By.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
And it and then threw a party for everyone, Like a
good example of someone you knowon his dime, spent his money to
spread Christmas cheer and it'slike.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
It's kind of like this illusion of like what
happened.
You have this dude in your life.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
That was great.
But like they do this hostiletakeover in the 51 version, Then
there's like this whole weirdmeeting where it's like they
kind of allude if we had to makehim like just straight up a

(42:05):
criminal, we didn't have to makehim tony soprano guys.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
Um, I will say this though um, I want to talk about,
before we move on, mrs dilber,who is in the book.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Okay, which is the maid.
Okay, okay, and only in someversions has she ever actually
shown having an interaction withscrooge yeah in the book.
We only see her in the futurewhen she's selling his bed
sheets.
You know, with the other threeto the, you know they're like
here's some stuff we stole fromthis dude's house and she
straight up takes his bedcurtains um which is.
I don't know why the bedcurtains are so symbolic or
something, no just symbolic tothis story, every version.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
It's like we have the bed curtains and yeah, you know
, and I think it's just, itmight be like a thing of like
his, the fact it shows, like,how rich he is, how rich he is,
and that she was willing to takea dead man's like bedding yeah,
um and so.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
But, like in, my wife loves the jim carrey version of
the end where he's dancing withher and she runs off screaming.
Yeah, now the 51 version givesher more of an arc we do see him
being shitty to her and we doget the character like her
selling the bed sheets, but atthe end he gives her.
He also raises her salary hegives her Christmas present.
Now the play I went to.
They did one of the coolestthings I've ever seen.

(43:02):
Now this play lifted from a lotof versions, so I'm assuming
they didn't come up with thisbecause this is brilliant.
They had the scene and, like Isaid, they lifted from the 51
version a lot because they didthe hostile takeover of
Fezziwigs and that goofiness.
And in their version the wholecratchit family worked for
scrooge and he were and he ran acoal factory not a money
lending okay, I think justtrying to call us more visible

(43:23):
got it.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
More evil, you know he had a lot of employees, not
just bob okay um, but he madetiny tim work for him too more
accurate to the times.
Yeah and so yeah kind of and solike uh, but uh, what was I
talking about?
Was I talking about?

Speaker 2 (43:37):
you're talking about the way the baby this is.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Yeah, so at the end of the play version, though, he
does the scene where he chasesher around and like, and then he
just wants to give her aChristmas present.
And he's like and I'm raisingyour pay to whatever a weekend,
and she's like what for?
And he's like well, it'sChristmas, you know.
And then she actually comesback, though piece of holly,
okay, and said this is all Ihave like, so, but merry
christmas, and it's the piece heputs in his hat.

(44:01):
And I was like dude, that'ssymbolic.
We see that a lot yeah in likepictures of scrooge.
At the end is that he has hollyin his hat okay, so for this
play to actually give it anorigin.
I thought was badass that'scool.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Yeah, it's.
It's a sim, it's not.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
It doesn't feel forced yeah, no, it was a
brilliant move by the play.
I was like this should be in alot of versions.
I'm sure they.
I mean, I don't know, I'm nottrying to bash, cause that's the
thing.
Sometimes you run into thebrilliant.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Sometimes you run into the danger of how did Indy
get his hat?

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
And it either goes well, like in uh in the last
crusade, or it's really bad.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yeah, where are the bed curtains?
Ah, this is it.
Yes, yes, yes, no, but I, I, Ithought that was one of the
coolest things I've seen thisseason, watching all these
versions was the whole Hollything.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
I was like that's pretty cool.
Yeah, I think that's a goodaddition.
Now there's a scene we'vetalked about before that never
happens, or at least we haven'tseen it, and it's after it's the
bell sequence.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
It's the bell scene.
It's the most gut-wrenchingthing in the book.
It is, it's horrific.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
It's watching the girl that got away.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
It's it's awful, and I mean like I got dumped on
christmas eve once.
So maybe I take this scenereally personally, but like the
fact that like there is likethis this, like you know that,
like I can associate heartbreakwith christmas, that's my,
that's my scrooge moment okay,okay um, there were like four
christmases that were very funfor me, sure.
Um, they're fun again, it'sfine, and so like, uh, I mean
they're okay, I don't reallylike Christmas.

(45:16):
Anyways, I shouldn't put somuch on that poor girl he's
doing great.
But the fact that in the bookthe Christmas past takes him to
the school, takes him to FezzyWigs, we see the breakup.
Yeah, I can't remember.
Is there more in there?

Speaker 2 (45:31):
She walks away, she leaves after.
He's like pretty much.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
You're just going to stay golden idol.
You married a painless girl.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
The most haunting line like I hope you're happy
with the life you've chosen.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Yeah with the life you've chosen, and stuff like
that.
In the book, though it's notover, it's not over.
Then she takes him to the factthat her home now it's still the
past.
But beyond that moment where hesees her, married and with kids
and happy.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
And she talks about oh, I saw Scrooge today with
kids and happy.
And she talks about oh, I sawscrooge today, yeah or no?
Her husband says it in the book.
I saw your old friend, yeah,you know.
And stuff like that and they'rejust talking about how he's
sitting alone, he's just sittingalone in his little money
lending house and stuff likethat anytime you're a single man
and you read this, it becomes ahaunting image in your mind
horrific, yeah, it's, you'relike oh god, don't let this be
me oh my god, it's, it's awful

Speaker 1 (46:17):
yeah and so like, in the fact that that gets written
out of every version it's justtoo much it's.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
It's too much to take .
It's.
At that point dickinson's justbeating it across.
I have to make scrooge.
You feel like shit aboutscrooge's life.
But it.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
But like my thing is this though, and I think a hit
or miss moment in the christmascarol is the opening scene with
fred yeah, it's probably one ofthe best scenes in the whole
story, because Fred's doingreally, he's just really back
and forth and all this stuff,and I think the only version
I've ever seen where I feel likeScrooge is still holding on to

(46:51):
Belle at his old age is JimCarrey's.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Because he says you fell in love.
It's like he takes itpersonally that Fred is getting
married.
Yeah, and it's like he takes itpersonally that fred is getting
married, yeah, and it's notlike I feel like we're not
supposed to get that.
It's like, oh, you're wastingmoney on a wedding and another
person.
It's that he's still holding onto that heartbreak and I feel
like by writing that scene out.
We don't get that as much.
That like I mean, we get itfrom the breakup.
We get it, they broke up, he'salone, but like the fact that he

(47:16):
he needed in the book to seeher happy and moved on without
him and kind of it's that wholebeing forced to see something
that you thought you were goingto be a part of yeah, you know
like he thought he was going tobe married to that girl and
those were going to be his kids.
But instead he chose the otherpath and then being forced to
see her happiness and go, thatcould have been me, and I'm

(47:36):
literally just living alone in ahouse with a lot of money
that's useless it's a nightmare,yeah, and but like there goes,
like that's why fred's in loveand that's why fred doesn't care
about money.
Only this woman yeah, he likein that moment.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
It's that point where he's like shit, fred's right
and it adds to the layer too,because fred reminds scrooge of
his sister too like his hispersonality and stuff.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
Yeah, because you get that moment where she died a
married woman and she hadchildren.
He said yeah, your nephew Fredyou know, and stuff like that
and so like, and you kind of.
You know, the 51 version has aweird death scene with Fran or
Fan where she's like, take careof my boy, Promise and he
doesn't.
So but yeah, you want a horrorChristmas girl.
I want a Christmas girl withjust the scene intact.

(48:20):
We add that scene to it.
We have to go that deep, damn itLike.
Let us see Scrooge at hislowest.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
I want to feel pain.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Yeah, for real.
And so, and again, I could bebiased at a horrible Christmas
heartbreak.
Maybe I just want to relive it,I don't know.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
And so You're.
So what was it called Masochist?

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Yeah, it's just masochist, like, take me back to
that Christmas Eve.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
I want to feel.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
And so, but like it's , it's.
I do hate that we never seethat.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
The thing that I picked up out of reading it this
time that I've never seen in aversion and this is really short
and I understand why present.
I didn't realize that he takesscrooge all around the world in
the book.
Okay, he's like showing peoplelike in a lighthouse by himself,
like singing christmas carols.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
He's just showing that the christmas spirit is
everywhere this is a montage.
It's kind of a montage scene.
It's like one paragraph but ittalks about all the places it
adds to the budget too much hegoes, I mean it's kind of like,
even in the book you're kind oflike oh, this is like a weird,
this doesn't really fit well,the rest of the story, but I get
the point that's trying to bemade.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, it's like look, you don't need
anything to experience christmas.
Here's all these lonely peopleenjoying christmas.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
You know who which movie does that well?
Which movie the muppetchristmas carol does the?
Whole song is just a montage ofhim walk around like the cheese
for the mises oh yeah and thenthey're dancing everybody's.
The poor people are having fun,basically despite being poor,
they do.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
They do a good job of that.
So, um, all right cool are we?

Speaker 2 (49:44):
I'm ready?
Are we ready?
I'm ready?
So explain to people what weare doing again.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Just one more time okay, so we're just going to go
through the main characters ofthis there's like 10 or 11 um
and then we just want to talkabout our favorite versions of
them yeah, from the versionswe've seen, yes this is not us
casting a modern cast.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
This is not us going to a year.
This is us basically doing ourbill and ted rules, just
exclusive to the people, we cancreate our own perfect christmas
carol out of the people whohave played the characters
already.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
Yes, and we're gonna cartoon drug all-star this and
it can be any cartoons, it canbe muppets and it can be humans,
perfect, so yeah it's gonna bea real trip so um, before we
start, there's only one versionthat has charles dickens in it
yes so do we just automatically.
I wrote it down gonzo, charlesdickens, gonzo with riso is the
best.
That's the only way to do it,yeah, which I think is why also

(50:33):
one of the reasons it getspraised so much yes is.
You have charles dickens.
It's the only version versionCharles Dickens is narrating yes
, look exactly and I love it.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
But it's also Gonzo and Rizzo and like they're.
They're at their peak, like duoform in the 90s also you have
like I cannot.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
I cannot tell you enough what that meant to me as
a kid because Gonzo's myfavorite Muppet for him to get a
leading role, basically leadingrole, yes, of what Probably the
most popular movie.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
I was so excited when he was on because he got that
and then he was also yeah.
Muppet Treasure Island, andthen you had the Gonzo like
movie about his origins?
Oh yeah, in space 90s was verygood to Gonzo it was.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
It was I love Gonzo man.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
And so he is automatically in, lock him in.
I mean, he's not going to dobetter than Gonzo, he's not?
It's true, it's the great Gonzowho played him.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
I think it's the dude that played Beast in the live
action.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
Oh, Dan Stevens.
I think it's Dan Stevens.
That's not a great attribute tomake me like him.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
I know you love the.
I liked the live action beingthe Beast Moving on to.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
So we'll get into our actual list here.
So let's just start from thebottom.
Fezzewig you insisted, we doFezzewig.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Yeah, because I just think Fezzewig's a good
character.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
He is.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
He's one scene, but it's a big scene.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
It's a firecracker of a role.
You have to come in with hairon fire.
You have to come in gunsblazing man.
It's just.
You come in, you get one reallygood moment, your meatloaf in,
uh, rocky horror picture showbetter analogy.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
You get to sing and dance and set the tone, and then
they're like and then he gotold and died and scrooge took
over.
Yeah, and so, um, who do youhave?
I swear if you say fozzie bear,but this whole thing is just
you and the muppet.
I know because.
If so, just tell me that it'smuppet.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Christmas care, okay so the thing often, so
oftentimes, when they do cartoonepisodes and things like this,
is you're always like, oh well,who's gonna play each role of
this, you know, and sometimesthey nail it and sometimes they
don't.
And I see people online alwaysgoing like, well, this muppet
should play this or this mickeymouse character would play that.
I do think the mickey mouse onekind of nailed it, because it's
a nice throwback it's mr toad.
So it's a nice throwback and,like mr toad, is a very

(52:38):
underrated he really is.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Mr toad is severely underrated.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
He's a lot of fun, like I remember him just being
pure chaos, and so it's great.
Fozzy is just being fozzy.
That's literally what it is.
He's with his mom, so it justit.
It works.
He's good, though it's good.
And then the other one, becausethat's the only thing.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
The other one that I know and like that comes to mind
is also like bob hoskins in2009 bob hoskins kills it in the
2009 version, which is when wejust have to say jim carrey
version, yeah, um so, uh, I'mgonna, I'm gonna go.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
I'm just just because I know I don't have that many
on the list.
I'll just go, mr toad, it's asolid, it's a solid.
I think it's just because he's,it's, the, it's, again, it's.
That's the whole thing of likewhen you bring it together
cartoon all-stars like that toretell the is, you're like I
gotta see this character, whothey're gonna pull out to play
this character, kind of thing soum I have bob hoskins as my
favorite fuzzy wig and who Iwould put, but I'm gonna give a

(53:25):
shout out to to ian mcneese okaywho's the?

Speaker 1 (53:27):
probably one of the only highlights of the and I'm
sorry, I'm not trying to trashthis version.
I think every version is goodin its own way, because the
story's perfect okay but thepatrick stewart version wasn't
my favorite okay, it's a little2 tv 99 version.
Yeah, it's a little 2 tv movieokay um the uh, and I thought
ian mcneese did a great job asfuzzy wick in his one scene what
people know in mcneese from ohgosh, he's one of those that

(53:49):
guys.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
He's one of the guys yeah, um niece.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
I mean, he kind of looks like hagrid kind of, but
he's not.
Yeah, okay, did I spell hisname right mcneese actor uh
actor, if I could it's likemcneese, like niece like oh,
like a niece.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
Okay, got it other than e before the I.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
Yes, yes, yes but yeah, I could see him in these
man.
I don't tell you what he's inhe's just in a lot of things.
Yeah, ace ventura he's aceventura dude he's in the tv
version nature calls he's thedude running around with jim
carrey the whole movie okay, gotit.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
So yeah, there we go.
Okay, there you go nice, nice,nice, nice.
We are cinephiles um, mrscratchit, or emily cratchit, as
I found out today, that's shedoes have a name, which is good.
I'm glad dickens gave her aname.
Um, you know, the 2019 series.
I was going to do a littleshout out because it did give
miss cratchit a bigger role, Ifelt like.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Is that the creepy version?
It's the creepy version, itgave her a bigger role.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
Vanette robinson plays her in that okay, does a
decent job, okay, uh.
Then you got miss piggy in themuppet version, uh, and I felt
like that was the first time Isaw her have like a full
character.
But I mean, it's just miss piggybut, like a stern kind of like
frustrated mr scrooge, like Idon't know why you deal with
that guy and it's like becauseit's a job, it's because
otherwise we're poor.
But then I also like when, withScrooge, how they kind of

(55:02):
switched it up and like she'snot married to the Bob Cratchit
in that movie, she's just asingle mom with a mute child,
basically, or like he hasn'ttalked in a long time.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Played by Alfre Woodard, yeah, sc.
As a Mrs Cratchit, but there isa Bob Cratchit also character
in it.
That's completely unrelated.
Completely unrelated, becausethat's Bobcat Goldways.
Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
I will say the interesting thing that people
have brought up about the Muppetmovie is that it's the first
time you see, I think, kermitand Piggy married with a family.
Yes, of pigs and frogs and theyanswered the question like okay
, guys are frogs, girls are pigs.
That's, we're just we're noteven going to address this.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
You don't think like there was like some serious like
meetings.
How do we wait?
It's like all right, jim's beendead for for a minute, 12 years
, yeah how do we handle this?
Are they mutants?
Green pigs, and then you justhave to imagine, like what's his
name?
Who?
What's his son's name?

Speaker 2 (55:55):
uh, his son's name is I need to know brian b need to
know Brian.
Brian Hanson I was going to sayChris Hanson.
I was like no, that's the guythat buzzed pedophiles.
Yeah, yeah, just have a seatright here, mr Frog.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
So I think Brian Hanson walked in and said guys,
guys, boys are frogs girls arepigs.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Yeah, and they went.
Oh brilliant.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
Okay, great, great.
The dark crystal guy went backto his drawing board.
Never mind, never mind, it'sokay, like doing the little neck
.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Yeah, one day he's actually bringing in the puppet
someone's rolling and he's likeso all right, so, but my pick,
I'll go.
I'll go alfre woodard because Ijust like I like the it's.
It's a good like change up ofthe character.
I'm glad youizing that way,because I'm sorry, but the
amount of time Scrooge is goingto show up on my list is
baffling even to me it's, it'syeah, I didn't realize how much

(56:46):
I liked Scrooge so I startedmaking this list like oh, oh
yeah um, I actually likeHermione Baddely Baddely from
the uh 1951 version um she'sjust very old Hollywood um from
the 51 version.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Yeah, I liked her yeah, but that's not my pick
okay my pick is Miss Piggy okay,perfect, and I just think it's
because Miss Piggy gets hermoment yes.
I think it's the first timeI've seen mrs Piggy get like
just a real moment where she'snot playing a diva right, it's
not she's.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
I mean she is tied to Kermit, but it's not in the
usual like I'm obsessing overyou.
We're having relationshipissues.
She got the frog man, she gotthe frog.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
They have a family and she's a caring mom, it's
true she's pissed about ourhusband being treated to work
for sure so it's like miss piggyfinally got a role with some
meat to it.
Yeah, some pork, if you will.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
Um fred nephew fred fred, wow, okay, so fred's like
one of the best characters he'sjust, he's the paul rudd would
play him in some version,that's's got Paul Rudd energy.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
That's really good actually.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
He's just a golden retriever of a man.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
And especially the Muppet version.
He's played by Steve McIntoshand that's really what he's
known for, but he does, he justhas that very happy-go-lucky
attitude.
Donald weirdly plays the nephew, but it's because it's McDuck
Scrooge.
Mcduck is is the main guy, yeah, but, and that normally
donald's the angry one, but yeah, and he has the horse, which is

(58:06):
fun from wind in the willows,so.
But I was going to point outjohn murray, uh, who plays, uh,
james cross, because it's notebenezer scrooge, it's cross in
his last name is cross, and soin scrooge.
But I liked it because not onlywas it his literal, actual,
brother literally yeah, which isfun, but it's all and like he's
playing his brother in themovie yeah but he also kind of
adds a little more pathos to thecharacter, like in the sense of
like I'm worried about mybrother.

(58:28):
I hope he's doing well.
Everybody else is like why areyou putting up with this guy?
And you're like, because he'sfamily, because I want him to be
like.
You kind of get that he hasconcern for his brother in the
story, which is true amongst theothers, but it's a little more
like I really love you, uncle,please come hang out with us.
You know like, and he's like ah, whatever I might, we'll see,
we'll see.
Yeah yeah, and there's adisappointment that you get to
see like there's a scene wherethey literally have his casket,

(58:53):
open casket or whatever, andhe's crying at Scrooge's funeral
because the main thing is thatno one goes.
But I'll go John Murray for mypick.
So who do you have?

Speaker 1 (59:02):
I really like Barry McKay from the 38 version, but I
think Colin Firth in the 2009Jim Carrey version Okay.
It's just perfect man.
Colin Firth, the King's Speechguy right, yeah, colin Firth
just nails it man.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
Okay, from 2009.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
Yeah, colin Firth, is it for me the way you said,
paul Rudd?
I always thought Cary Elvisshould have gotten a shot.
And Cary Elvis is in the 2009version, but he's older.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
That's right.
Which?

Speaker 1 (59:28):
is weird because I think Gary Oldman plays Tiny Tim
.
I don't really think.
I guess the age shouldn't havemattered, but Cary Elvis does
play the Dick Wilkins fromPeskywigs and the charity
collector that shows up, got itOkay.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Interesting, interesting.
Okay, marley, the first ghostto appear.
There's a lot of good ones.
It feels like anytime they makea movie there's like guys, we
have to make this entrance andeverything really good.
Some notable, like the MichaelHorton one.
Michael Horton from 51, I feellike it was a little more like
pomp and stuff and he definitelywas over the top in his

(01:00:00):
performance.
He didn't have all the bellsand whistles as much like Alec
Guinness in 1970, which Ithought was a pretty solid one.
Like he does have the changeand stuff and like floats, which
really like terrifies theScrooge.
Like that's the point hescreams and terrifies Scrooge
that's in the 51 version, that'sin the 1970.
yeah, the 70 version does kindof a weird thing, yeah yeah, but
like Statler and Waldorf in theMuppet movie, like that one is

(01:00:21):
scary.
I love Statler and Waldorf Likethey're funny, but I remember
watching it being like and it'sthe best song.
It's one of the top tier.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Marley, and Marley is the best song in the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
I argue that.
And the love is gone.
But that one scene that's truewith the bell and her new
husband you're right, you'reright, you're right, but then we
wouldn't be crying that's true,I would be crying.
I mean, we don't.
Yes, we'd be crying more in abad way.
I'd be clutching my chest onthe ground.
I do love lou from scrooge,though his body's rotting away.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
He's got like golf balls coming out of him.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
It's weird it's a very cool interpretation of the
character, but even like goofyis fun, the best makeup for sure
, like I honestly think yeah,but yeah, like styler ward off,
like that was a nightmarish forme as a kid.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
I remember like it's creepy, yeah, like especially
when they're being back, draggedback down by the chains and
stuff so I think, like marley isimportant to the movie because
it does set a tone that this isgoing to be kind of freaky.
Yeah, it's, it's the firstghost and he's by far the
scariest ghost, other than maybethe future you're yet to come
but you know, but like it'screepy but future is a less is
more approach.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
Like he usually, he's just the caped dude pointing,
pointing direction, and this islike no, I'm gonna scare you,
but marley's literally a hauntedhouse moment, because you're in
your home, it's dark.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
It's creepy.
You just have a fire or acandle while you're eating your
gruel yeah and all of a suddenthe ghost of your dead partner
just shows up and he's coveredin chains and he's pretty much
saying like and this is yourfuture and your chain is a
ponderous chain.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
It's longer than this yeah you know, and so like it's
, it's just freaky so, um, it,definitely because it, because
scrooge is sitting there.
Like you know, there's moregravy than the grave of you and,
like it's, you have toestablish no, this is real, it's
not a dream, it's gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
You know, yeah, um, did you give me a defense?

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
I was leaning alec guinness, but after it's between
alec guinness and lou, becauseI just I don't want, I'm worried
, I'm just going to keep pickingmuppets hey man, this is your
version.
Dude, get just just just yourversion it's the muppets, like
they were the scariest.
As long as it's not all muppets, because then you could just
told me up top.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
You could have just said I'm voting I'm just picking
the muppets.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
You could have checked the.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Muppet box on your ballot.
Man Like and we could have justbeen done.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
I could have talked about my people.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
So you've mixed it up enough, okay.
Okay, so who's your pick?
Um man, I think Gary Oldmankills it in the 2009 version he
plays.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
He also plays.
Yeah, Gary Oldman plays a bunchof people.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
He plays Cratchit, tiny Tim and Marley.
Okay, um, at least the facescan.
I don't think he voices TonyTerry.
Okay, that's good.
That's good, like it's his facefacial thing.
You know, but I'm going and Ihad the speed watch.
I saw it years ago.
Okay, it's really good versionis the George C Scott version.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Yeah, it's a solid version.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
It's a really solid version from the 80s but, like
Frank Finlay, is freakingterrifying in that version.
And I was speed watching itbecause I couldn't fit.
It was like I had like an hourone day.
I was like I'm going to kind oflike go through this and all
the characters.
And man, that scene freaks meout.
So I think Frank Finlay is mydefinitive.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
The first time I saw the 2009 version with Carrie.
It's the first time I realizedthat his jaw was like unhinged.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
And that's why he's tied.
It is in the book that he doeshave like the scarf wrapped
around his hand.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Yeah, like you always see it in the cartoons.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
You're like I never knew what the purpose of the
poofy has that, and so yeah,yeah, so it is creepy, for sure,
for sure, for sure um, okay,cool up, next we have uh, this
one was easy the one that gotaway.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Bell.
Uh, basically, like I saidearlier, daisy they do a lot
with, not with minimal time withdaisy in the role.
Uh, kieran allen and scrooge isa different version.
That's very likable.
Merith braun from the muppets.
I'm sorry, but that it's justgut-wrenching yeah and she does
such a good job of being like a,a vision of like innocence and
like true love and all of that.

(01:03:49):
And so when she just decides towalk away, and again, if you
watch this movie and you aren'taware of it, they took out her
song which, like makes it allworth the while.
And if you go on disney plus,now you can choose, like the
extended cut, basically where ithas it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
It was on like the vhs version um, all right, ma'am
, I kind of have a tie I reallycouldn't pick between these two.
Two reasons I like clearphillips, the bell from scrooged
, played by karen allen, okay,just because she has a way
bigger role.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
She's all throughout the movie yes, right, you know
it's.
It's more like there's also achance that you there is a
redemptive, at the end he getsyes, like it's kind of yeah.
Again it's like, oh, isn't thatnice yeah all the other
versions, like no, you'rescrewed and you're probably
gonna be alone.
Yeah, she got remarried.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
And like she doesn't even think about you anymore,
other than that you're lonelyyes and so um, and she dodged a
bullet that's what you are tothat woman and so um.
So I do like that version.
Um, we see a lot more of theirpast.
She's going on the journey withthem, kind of in the present.
Um.
And then, yeah, but robinwright from the 2009 version.

(01:04:47):
When I think of bell I think ofbuttercup from the princess
bride that's fair so like,that's who it is in my head nick
yeah when I read that I seerobin wright pin.
Is she still pan?
No, no, no, she's robin wright,you know and so yeah, that is
just bell to me that's fair.
That makes sense, yeah sothere's a world where carrie
elvis and her are both in aversion of this and just being
great yeah, you know, we canmake it happen fred, she's being

(01:05:11):
bell, it's great I'm down, I'mdown, I'm down.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Okay, so we're normally, we have, like our, you
know, 30 or less.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
So this would technically be like our top six,
I guess yeah, but we're gonnastart with like the main yeah,
these are the main people yeah,so tiny tim, I'm just gonna go
straight for the punch here.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
Uh, robin from the muppets is what an easy pick.
Uh, I thought that nicholasphillips from scrooge was wait
is the, does the?
Little frog have a name robin.
It says it Robin.
It's actually Kermit's nephew,Robin, but he plays Tiny Tim in
the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
I wasn't aware.
Yeah, you're actually going tohave to help me with mine.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
But Nicholas Phillips in Scrooge he doesn't talk the
whole movie because of.
I believe there was a tragedy,or it's like when his dad died.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
Yeah, like he's just, he's mean yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Which I love.
God bless us line.
At the end he reminds, hereminds bill murray, like this
is the line, say the line, sothat's great.
Um, and then I did note fromthe 70s version that tiny tim
was actually likable.
Like it's the first time youreally put a bigger spotlight on
him okay, in an earlier movie,um, but I'll go with.
I'll go with that one, justbecause I was like this is an
earlier version.
That didn't annoy me okayrichard.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
Richard beaumont was his name I have a lot of
thoughts about Tiny Tim.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
Okay.
It's an integral role for whatis kind of?

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
honestly, a little bit of a small part.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
Yeah, he's only in a few scenes.
Well, he's an iconic charactertoo, and he gets the final line.
It's always.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Terry Kilburn in the 38 version was very like hit or
miss.
I couldn't tell the kid waschewing up scenery.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Kid actors are hard.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
And almost like he was going a little too fast for
a kid on Crudges half the timeOkay, okay.
It's just like that kidpracticed, he was moving, but he
just, he was really bouncy andI'm kind of like.
I kind of like it because it'sthe spirit of the character, but
also like your kid actor andyou're kind of annoying.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
And so your pick is the kid from the robot, kid from
Futurama right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
So I want to shout out Terry Gilburn because he is
an actor that really getsassociated with it.
But I also like Calvin Cooley,nicholas Phillips, a lot because
I like what they do with the.
He doesn't have a physicaldisability.
He has like a mutism.
And so that.
So God bless us everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
It's the biggest payoff of any version, because
he doesn't talk Right and hedoesn't die and he's a trauma
victim.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
So in every other version, Tiny Tim's just like
this real beam of positivity fora kid with a disability and Bob
Cratchit's saying oh, he hopespeople see him in church, not
because he's a cripple, but sohe can remind them that Jesus
made lame people walk.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
It's that kind of thing, whereas in this he's a
trauma victim and speak.
He's not a beaver sunshineuntil christmas spirit nails at
the end.
There you go, and so um, but mypick in.
I'm sorry, I didn't know thatrobin the frog was a name, but
you can tell me if little mickeymouse has a name I don't know
if he does I don't know ifthere's any lore around is that
is the little mickey, your pickdude.
He's the most adorable, tiny tim.
Oh for sure, like you just wantto pick him up and hold him and

(01:07:59):
it's crushing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
It's so crushing when they're in the cemetery and
he's just hold and mickey's justholding the crutch it's the.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
It's the worst man, it's the most.
So many versions just show thethe crutch in the corner.
But mickey mouse holding thecrutch at the gravesite it's
pretty rough.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
He's the worst, yes, and like just the look on his
face, like why don't we have amickey mouse movie, like a full
feature movie?
I keep asking because theynailed it.
I guess they nailed it in 40minutes.
They're like we can't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
There's no way to do a full length feature here and
so, like dang dude I, I thinkit's the best version of tiny
tim is the little mickey mouseversion that's fair, because he
is it's the most sympathetic.
It's the.
It's just the one that reallynails it for me, but it is so
freaking scary.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
Yeah, or I mean it's so heartbreaking, that's fair.
That's fair.
It doesn't seem like he's acharacter.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
So there's no lore there.
Hanson was really good aboutgiving these people names,
disney characters.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,wait, wait, is it?

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
Oh, so it.
So it's Morty Fieldmouse whoplays.
He portrays the role of TinyTim in Mickey's Christmas Carol.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
You're making that up .
It's right here in the wikiMorty Fieldmouse Wow Okay, so my
pick is Morty.
He's got a brother named Ferdy.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
He does.
Oh, his sister, mickey's twinnephews.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
Oh, so they all have nephews, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
So they're just a bunch of millennials yeah, who's
mickey's brother who had?

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
who's their father?

Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
he's continuity since then.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
Donald duck's triplet nephews yeah, goofy's son uh so
only goofy's a non-virgin he'sthe only, the only non-kid, the
only one with a kid when Iactually had like, yeah, oh,
yeah, max mickey mouse doesn'thave a brother in the
traditional sense but where doesthis cartoon character, does he
have a?

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
sister.
Does he have?
Wait, we didn't think aboutthat.
Wait, who's Oswald the LuckyRabbit?

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
No, oswald, the Lucky Rabbit that's the original
character Like that's.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
Felicity Fieldmouse is Mickey's older sister and the
mother.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
So is Mickey's name.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
Fieldmouse.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Maybe.
So he just dropped it forHollywood because Fieldmouse was
.
It's too ethnic.
Yeah, yeah, it's like we gottasimplify.
You can't fit it Into abillboard?

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
Yeah, exactly, and then dropping Like the stein or
the bird it's like if They'ddone the Fievel Maus, I can't
even say Mauskowitz, or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
Yeah, it's because Fievel Maus, yeah, yeah, it's
exactly that.
So he just dropped it.
So he didn't get Any when hewas starting out.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
There you go Okay, all right, we learned something,
corey, mickey Mouse is Jewish,I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
All right, all right, so the Ghost of Christmas Past
Corey.
That's the movie I want, whereMickey Mouse escaped the
Holocaust and then came overhere and made something of
himself.
It's a success story.
It's called American Dale, butI want it with Mickey Mouse.
Donald Duck was a Nazi once.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
We don't talk about that, all right.
Oh yeah, we don't talk aboutthat, okay, that's why he went
to South America for a while.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
Which, in all fairness, he was a bad dream.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
It's true, it was a bad dream.
Yes, yeah, it was a nightmarefor him.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
Yeah, it was a nightmare.

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
Okay, Everyone's like what are they talking about in
Scrooge played by David we?

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
moved on to the Christmas past.
You gave no build up that wewere to the Christmas past.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
I just was trying to transition as easy as possible.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
You didn't want to talk about Nazis and Disney
anymore.
No, no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
Enough Holocaust jokes.
It wasn't a joke, so the Ghostof Christmas Past, okay, got it.
I'm torn between DavidJohansson in Scrooge as the cab
driver, because he's justhilarious.

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
He's great.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
And then the Muppets version, which is probably the
most like ethereal, interestingway to do something, like the
work behind it, especially itbeing like an early 90s movie.
You still sit there and go likehow is this possible?

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
I also love David Johansson's version because it's
great.
It's very New York.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
It's very different.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
It's very different.
And also he was the lead singerof the new york dolls, so um is
that your pick?
No, I'm going with michaeldolan from 1951 oh, from 1951 I
like the long hair old man Ididn't, I didn't vibe with it as
much because it's kind of aweird paradox, like he just
looks like a vibrant old manbecause he's supposed to be
ageless, so you can't tell ifhe's young or old.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okayinteresting.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
Okay, I get what you're saying.
Um, I'm gonna go with the.
I'll go, david johansson.
I think both are great I'm gladhe's in, but it's, he's just,
he's just so entertaining aswell.
And that's the thing too, isthat through that whole movie
they're just beating the crapout of bill murray they are and
it's great, it's great, it'sgreat physical humor for sure, I
mean because, that's the thing.

(01:12:15):
Like there's this one, it'sthose are the only two that I
really stood out to me in anyversion of of it.
It's either like it's a woman,like in one version, and she's
not even like really like 38version has a woman.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
Albert finney's version had a woman right I
think so, uh, but she was like awoman wearing there's like a
red dress.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
Yeah, just a red dress it was just yeah, it was
very uninspired, for sure, butyeah, yeah, I think those two
just stand out because they'reso different, or they're just so
well done.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
Okay, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Are you ready to move on to the Ghost Christmas
Present?
Yes, let's do it I don't knowif you have any other notes.

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
I don't have any Christmas.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
Present.
There's just a very visible,iconic.
Look to them.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
Yeah, it really doesn't differentiate much from
version to version.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
Version of version.
It's the one that really kindof stays intact the most, except
for scrooge, because it's thefairy played by carol cain
excellently also beats the crapout of bill murray yes, very,
very awesome version, and again,I'm torn between tradition and
what's funny, but like, I justthink the muppets version like
it's, like it's just a giantpuppet.
It's a giant puppet, but likeit's like the fact that they
made new creations, I think wasa genius stroke for the movie,

(01:13:17):
because if you'd had scooter orgonzo or fozzie or somebody
playing it, it just wouldn'thave had the same impact.
Now you've got a whole brandnew character that doesn't have
the remnants of the past moviesand stuff tied to them, you know
.
So I'm gonna go with that guywho voiced him and I had his
name written down but hedisappeared.
But it's jerry nelson whoactually also voiced tiny tim

(01:13:38):
that ass I think it's adifferent.
Hard to tell who's the performerand who is the voice, but that
seems to be.
He seems to have playedmultiple roles in that movie.
But anyway, who did you have inmind for ghost of christmas
present?

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
like you said, this one's like very.
It kind of stays the samethroughout most versions other
than scrooged um, which I love,but I do kind of stays the same
throughout most versions otherthan Scrooged, which I love, but
I do kind of want to stick withtradition on this one.
I don't normally bow tonostalgia that much, but I
really do like the Mickeyversion, which is just the giant
from the from Mickey and theBeanstalk.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
Yeah, Mickey and the.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
Beanstalk.
I just remember him peekingthrough the bed curtain was
terrifying to me as a kid.
It was very effective, like himbeing a giant, and I love the
sequence where they're basicallywalking through like town and
he opens the roof to see andsomebody screams and he shuts,
he's like wrong door, wrong door, and that's kind of my pick,
yeah, even though, uh, I reallylike jim carrey's version too
who plays him in jim carrey.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
Jim, that's right, that's right, that's right.
Yeah, that's a wild.
The whole.
That whole movie is just afever dream, just like polar
express, because they just doall kinds of weird stuff but
they do the ignorance and wantthing really well.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
But I think jim carrey does the voice.
Jim carrey's kind of aphenomenal actor for a guy that
gets pegged he is, one note,very, very underrated, yes and
so I I like his version a lot,but I kind of just want to go
with the giant from okay,because I do think it's just fun
them walking through living upthe roofs sometimes with those
those type of like we're puttingthese characters in this story.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
It is all about like the, the stunt casting, or like
what's the most unique way to dothis.
And they I think that's whythat one is so good is because
like, yeah, mr toad fitsperfectly right here, the giant
like we can have fun dynamicallywith stuff I really like it, um
, and I think, like it's just, Ihave just really it's just one
of my earliest memories just himpeeking through the bed curtain
, sitting on the job, all thestuff yeah, and all the and it

(01:15:20):
just, it just stuck with me forsure.
All right, the ghost ofchristmas, future cory um, this
is a tie for me.

Speaker 1 (01:15:28):
Okay, I just have the muppets version.
It's very creepy yes and thenalso scrooged this version.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
They're both the generally the same but I do love
the scrooge one where it's likeI like that he opens it and
there's the little things inthere.
It's pretty great.
I'm pretty much on the samefence.
The other ones I noted justthat were funny was dino.
Was it in the flintstones one?
You don't know it till it'sover because it's the flintstone
one they're putting on.
The play of the christmas caroland fred has been thrown in and
gets an ego for playing scrooge.

(01:15:54):
But Dino plays the Christmasfuture and then Bugs Bunny kind
of is the ghost of Christmasfuture to mess with Yosemite Sam
Scrooge.
He goes up and down the hallslike in a trench coat, kind of
ring-wraith looking thing.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
But I'm on the same fence.
We can just agree that thoseare our picks is Scrooge and the
Muppets, because they just bothnail the aesthetic perfectly.

Speaker 1 (01:16:14):
For me it's just like Jim Carrey and the Muppets one
are both perfect and they'regreat.
They're both terrifying intheir own way.
They do a lot of cool stuffwith the shadows.
Yeah, With the, the, the theJim Carrey version, but, like I,
kind of just like the liveaction version of the, the
Muppets one.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
It's just creepy and it's like the world just melts.
Yeah, as they're walking is oneof the craziest visuals I've
ever seen.

Speaker 1 (01:16:43):
And then I think the reason I probably lean a little
bit more towards the scroogeversion is because it's such a
bland aesthetic it's just ahooded figure they do so much
with it, like the things on theinside, um, and then the fact
that it's tv is a face and it'sa character who's obsessed with
his.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Yeah, I love higher.
Yeah, I love the tv aspect toit I think that's really
creative okay, last two.
So bob cratchit, there's a lotof good options, you know.
Again I said you could put paulrudd as bob cratchit, but I
think you need someone a littlemore.
Martin freeman played him inlike a this weird play version.
I know it's okay, gary oldman'splayed him in the past.

Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
Uh, we've talked about bobcat goldwith actually
martin freeman would be a goodbob cratchit.
I mean, I don't like him, buthe would be a good bob cratchit
david warner in the 84 version.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
I thought was pretty decent david warner he's, he's
one, again he's another, like ifyou see him, you'll know who oh
, david warner, no, I mean, butwhat version?

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
in the 84 version oh, I didn't know that that was
david warner.
Okay, that's cool, but yeah,he's in star david warner.
Yeah, star trek.
For those of you that don'tknow, he was the original freddy
krueger original freddy krueger.

Speaker 2 (01:17:41):
I did not know that he was recast before they I
guess they started as a martinmcfly situation.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
Yeah, he's in titanic .
He's a makeup test.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
Yeah, he's he's spicer, lovejoy and titanic,
which, if you don't know thenames of titan, he's the guy
that works for Billy Zane.

Speaker 1 (01:17:53):
He's Billy Zane's right-hand man dude.
Yeah, exactly.
Oh, he's in Tron.
Secret of the Ooze, anybody?
Secret of the Ooze.
He's the scientist.
Oh, okay, okay, he's the onethat makes Tokar and Rezar.

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
Yeah, okay okay, all right, but really for childhood
purposes?
Mickey and Kermit, yeah Prettymuch perfect casting, for that's
probably like day one.
They're like these, thiskermit's playing him bob
cratchit yeah mickey's playinghim.
It's mickey's christmas carol.
We can't have mickey playscrooge, because that doesn't
make sense hard.

Speaker 1 (01:18:22):
I would have loved it .
I would like to see the I'm who, you who?

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
who are you picking?

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
um, I have only one, okay uh gene lockhart from the
1938 version was just above andbeyond for me he's.
He seemed a little older, hewas a little bit older, a little
pudgier and stuff, but, like Iagain, I think it had a lot to
do with the fact that in thatversion he's fired and it's just
.
You're seeing a dude who knowsthat, like the, the, uh, the
path in front of him looks darkand scary, but he's, he's not
gonna let him take christmasfrom him, it's gene rockhart.

Speaker 2 (01:18:49):
Uh, gene lockhart lockhart.

Speaker 1 (01:18:50):
Okay yeah, I thought he did great nice.
Um, I really liked that version, the 1938 version of bob
cratchit, I think, like I thinkit's, and you really capture his
whole family like man yeah,aesthetic that you get again
like gary oldman dude, he killsevery part in the 2009 version.
I think he's an incredible bobcratchit, because it's just,
it's gary oldman yeah and he'sjust good at everything but,

(01:19:10):
like I.
Just I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
Gene lockhart got it for me for sure I'm gonna go
kermit just because I think ofthe two.
Like the mickey and kermit,kermit does have just that
spirit in him.
That's like the never, yeah,never give up, never, never let
the negativity get to him.
Mickey.
Mickey's more of a blank slateat times, but kermit always just
has that endearing quality tohim.
Like kermit has more of apersonality than mickey mouse
yeah like he's a little moredepth than mickey mouse because

(01:19:32):
the problem was when they madeI've talked to people about this
is that when they gave donaldhis his temperament, they gave
goofy his like his uh,shenanigans and stuff, so like
mickey kind of just became blankhe's the spirit of disney.
Yeah, he's the straight man toall of it and kermit is a
straight man but it's in ahumorous way.
He still like, gets impatient.
He'll have freak out momentsand stuff.
He has a a pig lover.
So there's a lot of interestingelements to kermit going on as

(01:19:55):
well.
So I'm going Kermit, becausehe's also just the songs he
sings, like One More Sleep TillChristmas, the song that they
sing at the dinner table in theChristmas present segment.
But even his speech when TinyTim's gone and he gives the.
This is the first passingamongst us line and stuff and it
does a really good If you alsothink about it.
I believe is it Brian brianthat's playing kermit, after jim

(01:20:17):
henson played him.

Speaker 1 (01:20:18):
Uh, I don't remember who did.
It would have been him or frankoz, probably probably not frank
.

Speaker 2 (01:20:23):
I need to back up and see don't.

Speaker 1 (01:20:25):
Don't give me attitude about frank oz, but but
I like frank oz.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
I didn't say anything wrong about.
Frank oz goes to christmas andwe gotta, we gotta dive in here.
We're a podcast, we'reprofessionals, we know what
we're doing.
But also the cool thing aboutthe muppet christmas carol movie
is that's it was the scenewhere he's walking with tiny tim
on his shoulders.
Have you ever seen the behindthe scenes of that, steve
whitmire?
Steve whitmire, yeah.
So talk about a bird and havingto play an icon after an icon

(01:20:48):
passes yeah but this, the wholesegment where they're walking
like it's a rolling scene andthey're, and kermit's feet are
moving because we have the bikescene from the original Muppet
movie.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
that blows people's minds, man when you read the
amount of voices these people doand how unalike those voices
are, that's wild.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
It's pretty crazy Cool.
Last one, yep Scrooge, scroogehimself, all right, and I had a
side note that I would like tosee Harrison Ford play Scrooge
at some point, just because he'sa cranky old man.

Speaker 1 (01:21:14):
He can't do the ending man.
There's no way.
That's true.
That's the problem, isn't it?
He can't act all giddy, hecan't be happy.

Speaker 2 (01:21:20):
That is the requirement.
So you've got, you know,scrooge.
Mcduck's played him, jimCarrey's played him, fred
Flintstone has played Scrooge,mr Magoo has played Scrooge.
Yes, the same mindset of like.
Let's go back and watch some ofthese old ones.

Speaker 1 (01:21:35):
Albert finney was the worst albert finney was just
kind of a character yeah,alistair sim, I think did a
really good job, great.
I get why people call him thedefinitive.

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
I get it, yeah, and I think george t scott did well
too.
He really did.
I thought he did fine.
And then guy pierce was justdark and brooding and ryan
reynolds was kind of a modernday scrooge.
He in the scrooge kind of it's.
It's more like that.
It's like a 2023 scroogedalmost.
But mine comes down to a littlebit of childhood, a little bit
of the new.
So it's bill murray versusmichael cain for me.

(01:22:02):
Okay, I think bill murray it'sbill murray and like he just
leans into his more like overthe top personality, like that
we see him do in ghostbustersand groundhog day, where he has
a transformative moment at theend, like in groundhog day.
But michael kane is just like Ifeel like he, if you were
pulling him out of a book andyou're trying to vision scrooge,
like he's him to a t in myopinion like from.

(01:22:25):
He doesn't have funny moments asmuch, but like the fact that he
goes on the journey and the arcso well like he's, it's
believable at the end when he isfull of joy and ready to yeah
to take on the world in a newlight um, so yours is michael
caine I think.
So I think, I think I'm gonnago.
Michael caine that's fair.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
I like all the credit in the world that people now
like.
Give the guy credit because heshowed up and played it as
serious as a heart attackliterally his words around
muppets yes, like, and it wasplayed it as straight as
possible.
Like to his credit, he said I'mtaking this as seriously as I
possibly can.
Yeah, and very few actors wouldhave done it.
They would have played off themuppets, they would have riffed,
they would have not taken itseriously.
It was a paycheck.
He was like nope, this is realI saw a meme.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
It said, like michael caine treated the muppets as
real people, tim curry believedhe was a muppet in muppet
treasure island.

Speaker 1 (01:23:10):
And that's the difference, and they both work
they do both work um, so youkind of give me all these people
that you would have put inthere.
Let me tell you this In aperfect world I'd have had Gene
Wilder as a Bob Cratchit.

Speaker 2 (01:23:23):
I would have loved Gene Wilder as a Bob Cratchit.
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:26):
Around the time of Wonka.
Just give it to me.

Speaker 2 (01:23:28):
Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:23:29):
And so.
But instead we were gettingAlbert Finney and bull crap in
1980.
Or 1970.
And so for Scrooge, give me,like 90s, 2000s, jack Nicholson
or Gene Hackman as a Scrooge ina perfect world.

Speaker 2 (01:23:46):
That'd be great, because they can both be crazy
at that.
Yeah, yes, jack Nicholson wouldhave been an incredible Scrooge
.
Would have been a great Scrooge.
He's an asshole.

Speaker 1 (01:23:53):
He looks like an asshole.
But at the end when he's got tobe nuts.
It's ready, it's perfect, andso and I think gene hatman could
have been more- subtle versionof that but my version, this one
, was hard, this one, I camedown to a top three okay I do
think jim carrey's incredible asebony's or scrooge.
I think he's like my.
It's weird, I like.
I get why people love alistairsims.
I get why people like theoriginal.

(01:24:13):
Uh, was owens Owens?
Yeah, owen from the 38 version.
I get why they like thesetraditional versions of it, but
to me I think Jim Carreyactually nailed the most
traditional version of EbenezerScrooge.
Jim Carrey's acting range justas a voice actor and a motion
capture actor in that movie isso underrated it's not even
funny and he does nail hiscomedic moments, but with
subtlety.
He's not like Mr Big, he's notAce Ventura here, yeah, it's

(01:24:38):
just he nails it and he doesjustice to the story, but in
those moments where he's likewith Fred and it has to be real
he's good, you know.
And so.
But it came down to besides him, it's literally between Scrooge
McDuck, who literally gets hisname from the character, like
Scrooge McDuck's name is stillScrooge McDuck.

Speaker 2 (01:24:57):
Right In DuckTales and everything else.
It takes his name from thecharacter Because I thought he
was a comic book characterbefore all of this.

Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
I don't know if he was or not.
I don't know if he was createdfor this or what, but either way
, that's where his name comesfrom.
Right Is from Ebenezer Scrooge.
Very good job, and like it'sone of the more satisfying
endings when he's at bobcratchit's house, you know, and
all that stuff, but I think he'sawesome.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
Um so he created in 1947 for the walt disney company
by carl uh barks, but he isnamed after ebenezer scrooge.
Yes, so all that's true.
Yeah, so it just made sensewhen they were like we're gonna
do the christmas carol yeah,well, they just made him a miser
character like he justhoardsards wealth yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:25:36):
And so it just.
I think it's an incredibleinterpretation of it, but I let
me ask you this before I giveyou an answer who has the most
satisfying ending in all theversions?
Which ending is the best?

Speaker 2 (01:25:50):
I think it's for me.
That's why Murray and Kane comeup, Because Kane's is very much
the musical Everyone's together, we're happy.
It's visually just great andMurray is literally having a
breakdown.

Speaker 1 (01:26:02):
For me, scrooge is the best ending of any version
of the Christmas Carol Cause.
It's it I.
It honestly looks like theyjust rolled tape and let Bill
Murray go nuts.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
It's a cynical man trying to figure out what
Christmas spirit is as he'sfeeling it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:14):
Yes, I think it's the best ending.
Yeah, I really do.
And then it weirdly breaks outinto a song, but like the kid
coming up to him tagging it'sthe biggest payoff of the God
bless us everybody.
It's him running around, it'shim being extra Bill Murray-ish
and I think Bill Murray is myfavorite Scrooge.

Speaker 2 (01:26:30):
That's fair.
I mean, it's a movie that'sreally weird and like I don't
think people think about itinitially like as a proper,
because you know it goes off thescript so many times but I
think because it's will it.
Not only is it willing to gooff the script, but it does it
with intention.
And like all the different, theghosts are pretty much
different, except the third one.
The characters are placed indifferent roles.

Speaker 1 (01:26:50):
For a modern setting, I'm probably wrong, but to my
take.
But as off the top of my headit's the most modern take.
I don't know that anyone's donea more modern version past the
80s.

Speaker 2 (01:26:59):
Not one that's.
I don't know if there's a 90sversion or two, I'm talking
about that.
Set place in the 90s, that setplace in the 2000s, that set
place in modern times.
I don't think that there's beenone that's been successful.
Like there's probably been TVversions I'm sure place in its
present day that's why I bringup uh spirited, because it's
it's kind of christmas carol,but it's.
It's a different, wholedifferent it's like it's a world

(01:27:20):
in which the christmas carolhappened and so like you're kind
of, ryan reynolds is beingvisited by will ferrell's like
spirit, angel, ghost characterwho is part of.

Speaker 1 (01:27:29):
Like it's his job, it's like I have to it's it's
the wonderful life thing of likeI gotta earn my wings, kind of
thing.
So I'm trying to get you to.

Speaker 2 (01:27:35):
They're just hawking from a different kind of
different things, kind of kindof so, but it was, it was better
than than perceived.

Speaker 1 (01:27:40):
Yeah okay, all right, but yeah, for me it's just bill
murray and I think it's justbecause I think it's the best
ending.
It's a little weird, it's alittle off the cuff.
There are things I want to cutout of it, but like it's just,
it goes on forever, but headWell, it's after his stint in
Paris and it's his big comebackand he got real butt hurt about

(01:28:01):
not being taken serious withRazor's Edge and all those
movies and it's a.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
Richard Donner movie too, the Superman director.
There was a lot riding it whenit came out, for sure.
But yeah, I totally agree, Iget it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:13):
That's why he was my number two or one b, really yeah
well, I think that's it, man,yeah that was almost two hours
of a christmas carol don't worryI'll.

Speaker 2 (01:28:22):
I'll try to cut it up short to down.

Speaker 1 (01:28:23):
I don't even feel bad if you don't because it's a lot
.

Speaker 2 (01:28:25):
It's just a ton of information just 200 years,
almost exactly, of informationeasy that thing's.

Speaker 1 (01:28:31):
We might be alive to see 200.
I mean you will, for sureyou'll be alive 20 more years,
cory, come on yeah, I neverthought I'd live to see 40,
though, so I still think I'm onborrowed time.
I think I got like 11 monthsleft I and so I'm hit by a bus
or something I hope not, I meanyeah it'd be nice if I didn't,
but you know, I just feel likeI'm gonna die soon please don't
say that.

(01:28:52):
So, uh, this could be my lastepisode.
Everybody, um, but uh, but nolike it is wild to think that,
like in 20 years, this thing'snot 200 years old.

Speaker 2 (01:28:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:00):
Which means we'll get a version.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
Oh yeah, 100%.
If they don't make a movieversion, the local theater will
do it.
They'll be like we got to dothat.

Speaker 1 (01:29:07):
Well, anybody can do it.
It's public domain.
You can't own this.
That's right we could do.
I would love to do it, love todo it, but I got a deadline, so
I gotta really live it up rightnow.
Um, and so, yeah, that's aChristmas carol.
We hope you enjoyed listeningto this that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:29:25):
Be sure to subscribe.

Speaker 1 (01:29:26):
Follow us on at Quan Recast that all the favorite
version of this um and tell usif there's a version we're not
thinking of yeah, I feel like wenamed at least once every
version that we know of thatexists yes, we tried but um, I
mean, we didn't even tackle liketv episodes that do this right,
I mean, it's a whole othernightmare, so nuts how many?
How much this has been redone?
But, um, we, uh, if anything,prove to you that we're fans of

(01:29:49):
the non-traditional that's true,carol's true um, but yeah, no,
uh, thanks for listening and saygod bless us everyone, nick god
bless us everyone nick.

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A Christmas Carol - All Time Cast: From Dickens to Modern Adaptations

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}A Christmas Carol - All Time Cast: From Dickens to Modern Adaptations