May 15, 2024 • 50 mins
In this episode of Queer for Cities, host Joshua Croke discusses the intersection of identity and place, with a focus on the contributions of queer and trans people in designing inclusive and equitable communities. The episode features conversations with activist and community organizer, MG Xiong, who shares their experience as a Hmong Transmasculine and non-binary individual working in transgender advocacy and community building. The discussion touches on navigating challenging conversations, envisioning inclusive futures, and combating barriers to equitable living. The episode also highlights the importance of accountability, love, and support within the queer and trans communities to foster a more inclusive, joyful, and normative societal view of queerness. Additionally, there's an exploration of the challenges in philanthropy and resource distribution that impact transformational work for queer and trans rights.
00:00 Welcome to Queer for Cities: Making Queer a Joyful Norm
00:42 Spotlight on MG Xiong: A Journey of Identity and Advocacy
03:55 First Event: A Gathering for Trans and Non-Binary Folks
06:28 Featuring Derek Austin: Poetry and the Power of Words
08:48 Love Your Labels: Empowering Queer and Trans Youth
10:22 Envisioning a Liberated Future: Housing and Community Building
17:00 Challenging the Philanthropic Industrial Complex
34:18 MG's Podcast Preview: True Story, Trans Realities
43:27 Building Inclusive Communities: Accountability and Joy
49:35 Closing Thoughts and Community Engagement
You can listen to Queer For Cities loud and queer wherever you get your podcasts and on WICN 90.5 FM, Worcester’s only NPR affiliate station. Tune in on Wednesdays at 6 PM and Sundays at 11 PM and find us at QueerForCities.com. Queer For Cities is created and hosted by Joshua Croke. Our Assistant Producer is Jack Tripp. Our Audio Engineer & Music Producer is Giuliano D’Orazio.
Buy Merch! Join us on Patreon!
MG Xiong / Massachusetts Transgender Political Coalition
The Trans Community of New England
The Faggots & Their Friends Between Revolutions
Queer For Cities is about life at the intersections and designing equity-centered, liberated communities where LGBTQ+ folx thrive. Follow us @QueerForCities and QueerForCities.com. Hosted by Joshua Croke. #QueerForCities
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joshua Croke (00:06):
Hello, hello, hello folks coming in loud and
queer with Queer for Cities.
I'm your host Joshua Prok, andI'm out to make queer a joyful
norm.
Our show is about the design ofcities and communities at the
intersection of identity andplace, centering the role queer
and trans folks play in thiswork.
We're bringing together voicesfrom across the spectrum, from
queer artists and agitators toarchitects, urban planners, and
(00:28):
activists to share theirstories, challenges, and
triumphs in creating inclusive.
Spaces and Equitable Cities.
Our thesis for this show is thatwhen we build more queer
inclusive cities, we buildbetter cities for everyone.
In part one of this kickoffepisode, which got long so I
split it into two, we heard fromTaj Smith about navigating
(00:48):
challenging conversations andimagining the future of
religions that embrace andaffirm queer and trans folks.
You also briefly heard from MGXiong.
MG Xiong (00:57):
I'm MG Chong.
I use they them their aspronouns, and I am Hmong
Transmasculine and non-binary.
I'm originally from Anchorage,Alaska, actually, and I now live
in Medford with my sweet babycat Meatball.
Joshua Croke (01:12):
MG Chong is the director of programs for the
Massachusetts TransgenderPolitical Coalition and has
organized community-orientedinitiatives focused on trans and
queer rights, combating gunviolence in underserved
neighborhoods, and promotinganti-racist education.
MG has served youth and adultsalike, building community
between generations, cultures,and identities.
(01:33):
They are a recent graduate fromUMass Boston and spent their
undergraduate educationresearching best practices for
fostering belonging for gendernon conforming individuals in
spaces of learning.
MG Xiong (01:43):
A lot of my initial work and just kind of existence
in Anchorage gave way to thefoundation of who I am, and even
though I didn't step into mytransness or my queerness until
moving to Boston, I feel like inmy time in in Anchorage, there
was this togetherness that I.
(02:04):
felt much more strongly therebeing with people where we're
all one degree removed fromanother and in some way shape or
form really shaped me into howcommunity oriented I am now and
how important identity is to mein all different types of facets
and Anchorage being one of themost Diversities in the US as a
(02:24):
whole and the high school that Iwent to being the second most
diverse in the nation alsoreally just gave way to so much
genuine thought about identitythat I hadn't found when I had
moved here that didn't exist.
Joshua Croke (02:40):
I asked MG if they found similarities between
Anchorage and Boston, and theysaid that a lot of the
similarities were due to goingto UMass Boston, which is the
third most diverse university inthe nation, which connected to
their experiences andenvironments when MG was in
school in Alaska.
I asked MG about becomingcommitted to their work in
community, and how that isinterconnected to their own
(03:02):
identity.
MG Xiong (03:03):
I've now long been involved in transgender advocacy
and community building.
That started off with work thatI was doing with gun violence in
Anchorage.
This was during the height ofthe March for Our Lives movement
as well.
That really engendered my workin community.
And it wasn't until I came intomy transness when I was about
(03:26):
like 19 or so, that it just madeperfect sense for, it felt like
everything that I was doing hadculminated into this moment of
stepping into my transness.
It gave me so much energy at thetime and I just felt so
rejuvenated by the people that Iwas meeting, the conversations
that I was having, and I willsay now that that novelty is
(03:50):
wearing off as the work becomesincreasingly difficult.
Joshua Croke (03:55):
MG was also a speaker at first event on a
powerful panel titled by us forus surviving and supporting each
other as trans non binary andgender non conforming people
working in TGNC spaces.
So I was a first event firsttimer.
It was my first timeparticipating in the conference
and I don't think I've ever everbeen in a space where the
(04:16):
majority of people were transand non binary folks, and the
fact that that event is about usand our experiences and building
communities was something reallyspecial.
Although I spent most of my timecoordinating and interviewing
some of the awesome guests thatwere featuring this season like
Taj and MG, um, I do hope to goback and experience more of the
(04:37):
workshops and events in thefuture.
First Event also provides spacefor folks to connect and
organize around challengesfacing queer and trans folks
across communities, fromdifferent cities and towns.
Uh, there were people that I metwho had come up from Florida and
came to First Event specificallybecause of the anti trans
(04:58):
legislation that they are facingin their communities.
and how they are looking at howto best advocate for their kids.
Some folks told me they wereeven considering moving to
Massachusetts because of howtoxic the environments have
become in some states across thenation.
Many of the issues that we faceas queer and trans folks and the
(05:18):
advocacy work that we do incommunities is similar here in
Massachusetts, across NewEngland, across the country, but
oftentimes we're disconnectedfrom the advocacy efforts of
others.
Other folks, because we're oftenin the day to day weeds and on
the ground work that we're doingin our own community.
So something that I'm thinkingabout a lot, especially with the
(05:40):
advent of this show is how we'renetworked, how we're mobilizing
together, both at local state,regional national scale is part
of the work in and of itself.
And that can be really difficultto spend time doing.
And like I said, when we're inour on the ground day to day,
Which can already overextend us.
So I'm hoping that Queer forCities can help to build and
(06:03):
expand networks here in NewEngland and beyond.
And if you're looking to getmore involved in network
building and communityconnectivity, please reach out
to us.
You can email me directly atjosh at queerforcities.
com.
We're going to get back to MG ina few minutes, but something I'm
really excited about with Queerfor Cities is featuring artists
and creatives, particularlypoets, spoken word artists, and
(06:25):
writers for segments during ourepisodes.
This week's featured poet isDerek Austin.
Derek is a writer, teacher,editor, and the author of
Tenderness, winner of the 2020Isabella Gardner Poetry Award,
and Trouble the Water, selectedby Mary Sivitz for the A.
Poulin, Jr.
Poetry Prize.
(06:45):
Black Sand, his first chapbook,was published by Foundlings
Press in 2022.
His debut collection was honoredas a finalist for the Kate Tufts
Discovery Award, Tom Gunn Awardfor Gay Poetry, Lambda Literary
Award for Gay Poetry, and theNorma Faber First Book Award.
Tenderness was a finalist for aGolden Poppy Award, Lambda
(07:06):
Literary Award for Gay Poetry,and a Northern California Book
Award.
Philip B.
William, author of Mutiny, anNPR, says, Austin is a lyrical
architect, rendering withurgency and plainspokenness what
is arguably the most challengingkind of loneliness that
experienced amidst others.
His second collection,Tenderness, channels the
(07:28):
unexpected pain that one onlyknows after having been touched.
He goes on to say, This is astunning collection for these
challenging times when intimacyhas escaped us, but will
eventually return.
Let this book be your primer.
Here's Derek Austin reading Daysof 2014 from his most recent
(07:48):
collection, Tenderness.
Derrick Austin (07:51):
Days of 2014, he had told me to circle the lake,
smell of pepper and pine resin.
Black people died or wentmissing that summer.
Every day it seemed, and herewas someone who wanted to find
me.
We drank red wine, heavy andbitter.
(08:14):
Sunlight moved across the lakewith the hours.
Turns mixed their shadows andbodies in the water.
When he laughed, little foamgathered on his incisors.
He helped me into the wild grassand slash pines when I couldn't
walk.
There is a roof, One man's bodymakes over another.
(08:37):
Pine needles and sharp grains.
This is what I remember.
This is how I escaped the world.
A little foam.
Joshua Croke (08:48):
Love Your Labels is a non profit that supports
queer and trans youth throughart, fashion, and design based
programs that explore gender,identity, and expression, and
works to connect youth tocreative opportunities that
align with their passions thatlead to positive life outcomes
and fulfilling careers.
Love Your Labels also works withfamilies and communities to
create inclusive and lovingspaces everywhere through
(09:09):
programs like Drag Story Timeand Queer AF, an art and fashion
show celebrating the uniquebeauty of every person.
Queer AF returns to MechanicsHall in Worcester on Friday,
September 6th, and you can learnmore at loveyourlabels.
com.
As someone working with transfolks across the state, many of
(09:32):
whom have experienced violence,houselessness, and mental health
struggles that MG works tosupport, MG opened up about the
compartmentalization that issometimes needed to continue
doing this work in support ofpeople in struggle, and quote,
the skill in which I witnesstrans suffering.
They went on to acknowledge thetrauma that can come from this
(09:52):
as well.
So in our conversation, I askedMG about how we build this
liberated world we want toexperience ourselves.
I've always felt
MG Xiong (10:02):
like where there is no hope or vision of the future, it
is incumbent upon us to inventit, and to invent that future.
And so The suffering that I see,it never gets any easier, but it
continues to fuel that fire thatI have to continually invent new
trans futures for us.
So I think the physicallandscape of that is this modge
(10:26):
podge of communal living thatlooks like pedestrian dignity,
and it looks like not justaffordable housing, but quite
frankly, free housing, and thesecommunity centers that are
intergenerational.
I was at a, I don't know, thisworkshop thing back in December
with a bunch of other LGBTQleaders here in Boston, and one
(10:49):
of the things we were doing wasenvisioning any possibility of
trans futures.
And we all came up with thesebrilliant ideas of
intergenerational, interculturalspaces that center joy, that
center health and wellness, Andreally what we came to the
conclusion of is that we cannotbe well in an unwell world.
(11:14):
And so pushing towards thatvision in any way that we can,
both in the physical landscapeand our day to day being.
Joshua Croke (11:21):
This is so resonant with a lot of the work
that I do and advocacy around.
The ability to exist and live inthe spaces that make us feel
welcome, comfortable, affirmed.
They could be the places that wegrew up.
They could be the places that wehave found as queer folks that
(11:41):
are loving and affirming wherewe have built a community.
But we, have such a challengedsystem that continues to inflate
the cost of living in spacesthat folks occupy, especially
cities, especially here in NewEngland, Massachusetts is the
most expensive state to live in,in the country.
(12:05):
And we are seeing folks movingout.
of Massachusetts because of alack of affordable and not even
affordable in the term, like theactual like definition of
affordable housing, but justlike affordable for people
across many different incomelevels.
And so When MG is talking aboutvisions of the future that
(12:28):
include things like communalliving and free housing I want
to point out and this issomething that we're going to
talk about in later episodeswith one interview that comes to
mind is with Aaron Greiner fromCulture House who is an urban
planner, but really talkingabout how zoning We're going to
(12:50):
talk about zoning to, uh, howzoning prevents a diverse
approach to building housingthat caters to the diversity of
people within communities andthe diverse ways in which people
want to live and exist.
I could.
I would love to live in a placethat is, maybe it's a decently
(13:15):
sized property where there areapartment style housing units
that are owned by its residentsand there are shared spaces on
those grounds that, uh, wouldbenefit everybody.
Maybe living room slashgathering space.
art studio music space, we seeprojects, uh, like artists live
(13:36):
workspace that are popping upthat are starting to model some
of that vision.
And this is something that Iwant to see made more accessible
to people and, uh, also connectpeople into wealth building
opportunities by being able topurchase land outside of the
very.
like traditional and exclusiveways in which folks are able to
(13:58):
step into home ownership now andpresently.
I can tell you living inWorcester we just got ranked the
third most expensive place tolive in New England, I think was
the stat.
And I can tell you as a renterthat purchasing a home given my
current conditions and resourcesis not feasible nor possible and
(14:24):
I could maybe look at Purchasinga home outside of the city and
then it goes into perpetuatingthis this Cycle of oh now I have
to go and infringe on someoneelse's Community because I can't
afford to stay in my own and sowe're gonna dive deeper into
that But I want to also upliftthat dignified quality housing
(14:46):
can be built And can beaccessible across income levels.
We do not.
We need to hold developers andfolks that are in these spaces
more accountable to not lookingat what is the highest possible
return on their investment.
But what is also creatingdignified quality space for
(15:06):
people?
We'll get more into that aswell.
And there's also an abundanceversus a deficit mindset here.
And a lot of change.
Uh, work that I'm involved in,we have to talk intentionally
about shifting from the mindsetthat we are so socialized to
think of, which is there is notenough to go around.
(15:27):
How could you even possiblyimagine giving someone housing?
That's just doesn't make sense.
Where's the money going to comefrom?
To a mindset of abundancesaying.
That we know that there areresources that are available
that can solve this.
We're not prioritizing thingsthat are truly uplifting
everyone in community.
(15:47):
And that does have a negativeimpact and repercussion on
everybody, not just folks thatare living under a certain
income threshold.
On Deficit, there is the realitythat, right now, accessing the
wealth of resources that arerich in this world is extremely
difficult, and that queer andtrans folks and organizations
(16:07):
serving us have to fight forpennies.
MG Xiong (16:10):
Our mission is to serve all trans people in
Massachusetts.
We estimate there to be around55, 000 trans folks in the
state, and there's three of us.
You know, not, not citizenly forpeople out here doing all of the
work, but at our org.
And.
We frequently say that our jobsshouldn't have to exist, and I
think this is especially truefor my colleague who's the
director of development.
(16:31):
Her entire job is getting moneyfrom people with much more
access to wealth and privilege.
Joshua Croke (16:38):
And when I said pennies earlier, I actually mean
pennies.
Research out of the StonewallFoundation found that for every
hundred dollars awarded by U.
S.
foundations in 2021, only 28cents specifically supported
LGBTQ communities and issues,with just four cents being
dedicated to trans communities.
(17:00):
MG and I talk more about thephilanthropic industrial complex
in a minute, but I asked MGabout what's inspired them as
they engage in this work.
What drives them?
The
MG Xiong (17:10):
Faggots and Their Friends Between Revolutions by
Larry Mitchell is a poeticmemoir about the Lavender Hill
commune in in upstate New Yorkin the 70s and I see so much of
that in my my envisioning fortrans futures because it's
(17:32):
discussing how we all have arole to play in trans thriving.
And that role isn't necessarilyphilanthropist or funder or, you
know, community programdirector.
It's really just offering ourbest to others, offering what we
have and sharing that.
And I remember the first timethat I was reading this book,
(17:54):
there was this point where itwas saying that queer thriving
is when we all have enough.
And at first I pushed back and Isaid, Well, why is it just
enough?
Why is it the bare minimum?
Why is it not more than that?
Why is it not abundance?
But then I sat with that for fora while and and why I felt like
there needed to be more thanjust enough.
(18:16):
And the more I sat with it, themore I realized that Having what
we need is enough.
Joshua Croke (18:23):
This framing is really beautiful.
Enough, for me, is a word that'sbeen rooted in deficit.
It's like, okay, I can actuallysurvive if I have food to eat
and a roof over my head.
But that's constructed.
Enough can be abundance.
Enough should mean it'sincluding all the things that
make us feel seen, loved,valued, and experience joy.
(18:46):
To jump back on my philanthropicindustrial complex soapbox,
there is a history of howphilanthropy was constructed as
a mechanism for corporations toreceive tax breaks and funnel
money into only the issues thatthey care about.
This is why trans folks getsfour cents out of every hundred
dollars in philanthropic giving.
(19:08):
So, the people who hold wealthcontinue to hold and maintain
that wealth as well as in largepart control the way in which
their quote unquote charitableresources are given.
And there are a lot of peopleFoundations, and especially
folks that are working withinfoundations that are working to
(19:30):
change their processes, that aregiving more to BIPOC and queer
and trans organizations.
And there often continue to behurdles and barriers that
prevent us from doing the deepsystemic work that we need for
transformative change.
MG Xiong (19:44):
We're also seeing, I feel like, these one time
funding opportunities Which youknow i'm not going to to push
away But having multi year grantfunding allows organizations to
grow much more more robustly andstably because we can work
(20:09):
towards that longevity.
We can hire a staff person, notworry how we're going to pay for
them the next year.
And so having more long termrather than these, these one
offs, you know, fundingopportunities has been much more
helpful I've seen.
And also there's so manystipulations that come with so
many, many fundingopportunities.
(20:31):
You have to do it between thesemonths.
You have to.
Um, and we're going to report onjust these metrics and I think
that that's for me feels like amistrust between the funders and
our organizations.
We actually know how to do thiswork best.
We know how to effectively runthis program that is meaningful
that is impactful for ourcommunity.
(20:51):
And yet our funders say, inorder to do it right we need
this this and this it's verystringent.
And we have to follow thesespecific guidelines just to
spend this money and.
Then we're left having to shiftour, our, our program models,
shift our services in order tofit very niche requirements that
(21:12):
we're given.
And so, that is, at thefoundation of that is this
mistrust that these fundersdon't think that we know how to
spend the money in the ways thatwe know is best for our
community and for ourselves.
We're willing to put up with allof this difficulty in service of
our mission.
Because I love hanging out,supporting, being with trans
(21:34):
people, and so I then in turnput up with more of this
disgusting system.
Just because it allows me tohave that joy in my life in this
aspect.
And similar to other nonprofits, we do it because we
love the kids, or we love this,and in service of our mission,
(21:55):
it allows people to think thatthat's enough, and that's
compensation enough, and thatwe're doing it out of the
goodness of our hearts, but thegoodness of my heart doesn't get
my rent paid.
Joshua Croke (22:06):
I was like trying not to like snap and clap when
MG got real like this in ourinterview because it's not
Surprising to me why foundationsrarely allow funding to be used
for quote unquote operations,which is Always what it is is
the line item of salaries andthings like that.
People are what driveorganizations and we need to
(22:29):
invest in people.
And there is a history ofsaying, Oh, you work in
nonprofits.
I expect you to not make money.
And that creates not only a veryvisible statement around how we
value people doing work that'sliterally life saving and
(22:51):
transformational, but it issaying that we're not going to
resource these in ways that makedoing this work attractive.
And so if you want to actually,you know, find wealth and, you
know, have more autonomy overyour life, have more ability to
(23:13):
travel, move.
purchase a home, et cetera, thenyou definitely should instead
fit into the system that we'veconstructed in this quote
unquote for profit realm thanthis quote unquote non profit
realm because the, thedifference there is that, Oh,
that you, you just do thatbecause you You like to do it
instead of saying, no, thepeople that are doing this work
(23:37):
are holding the systemaccountable for failing our
communities time and time again.
I know a good handful of folkswho if a foundation approached
us and said, we're going to giveyou all 100, 000 salaries with
benefits for the next fiveyears.
No strings attached that wewould engage in truly
transformational work and wewould continue doing this work
(23:59):
and it would be from a place ofresource and we would continue
doing the work that we're doingnow have more autonomy in the
decisions that we're making inour day to day.
And let me tell you, at the endof that five years, I'd just
love to see that report, even asI'm recording this episode to
(24:20):
build this show and bring moreattention to these issues.
I've personally funded theproduction of this show.
I started love your labels fiveyears ago and have only put
money and time into theorganization completely
volunteer.
Along with our board andvolunteers.
And this is an incredibly commonstory for mission driven
organizations.
We have to spend so much timechasing money to do the programs
(24:43):
that we don't get to actually dothe work as often as we want.
And this needs to change.
If you're listening and are afunder who wants to or is
thinking differently, I wouldlove to talk with you.
If you're listening and you'redoing advocacy work around
funding, I'd love to talk withyou.
We need to distribute ourresources better, folks, and
(25:06):
philanthropy is in one of themost privileged positions to do
that.
You know, the reality is thatdespite this demand for change,
people are going to keep doingthis work because the work needs
to get done.
I think corporations and fundersknow this and often take
advantage of that.
I've been trying to get into thehabit of modeling the life we
try and show our youth theydeserve.
(25:28):
Compensation for labor, time forrest, time to enjoy the world,
create art and take space forjoy.
We talk about these things whilemaking these sacrifices behind
the scenes and it isn'tsustainable.
So let's acknowledge that wewill continue to make sacrifices
and yell from the rooftops thatwe shouldn't have to.
MG Xiong (25:51):
I feel like through the continued visibility and
affirmation of trans joy, that'sreally what keeps me going.
I have positioned myself in thistrans underground, where 99
percent of the people that Ispend 99 percent of my time with
are trans and are queer, both,you know, during my work day of
course, but also when I go home.
(26:11):
My, my chosen family, myfriends, my loved ones, and I
think that is really what givesme that hope, and what gives me
the, the power and the energyand the time to be okay doing
what I do.
And knowing that for as muchsuffering in the world that is
(26:35):
out there in great, greatnumbers, there is an equal if
not larger amount of this transjoy that exists.
any congregation of trans andqueer people makes me incredibly
emotional.
It feels like an act ofresistance, and sometimes I hate
saying that.
That us being together isprofound, it's something worth
(26:57):
celebrating.
And while I certainly I feelthat.
I wish that we didn't have
Joshua Croke (27:03):
to say that all the
MG Xiong (27:03):
time.
Joshua Croke (27:04):
Jumping in with a considering equity moment, MG
also highlighted a great exampleof the barriers people doing
good work can face when theyaren't also quote unquote great
at writing applications, whichif you are a funder looking at
making more equitable grantmaking processes, this is
something to take note of.
MG Xiong (27:22):
Many
Joshua Croke (27:22):
organizations just
MG Xiong (27:23):
don't have the training or the specific skills
that grant funders are lookingfor in exactly how they write,
how they position theirorganization, their values, and
while they're doing incrediblework.
It just comes down to how wellis this application put
together.
And so when funders aren'tproviding potential grantees
(27:46):
opportunities for thatprofessional development, for,
you know, a funder to sit downwith someone and say, you know,
this is how we can work on yourapplication together.
This is what we're looking for.
This is how we can help youposition the work that you're
doing.
And so, so often I'm seeinggrants just have that financial
distribution without any of thesupport in ensuring that there's
(28:10):
equitable access to apply in thefirst place.
Joshua Croke (28:13):
So the grants and foundation space is still in
such need of more equitablepractices, but there are folks
that are doing this work.
And I want to just shout outsome of the ways in which I've
appreciated relationships withfunders, uh, either through
process or award.
So something that I have reallyappreciated is when instead of a
(28:35):
written application, interviewsare an option, or the core way
in which folks are beingconsidered for a grant.
So you meet with someone on thefoundation staff, talk about
your program.
They ask some questions.
They take notes.
They bring it back to a reviewcommittee and the decision is
made whether or not to fund theorganization.
(28:56):
That can be a lot of work.
A little bit nerve wracking aswell, because you have to
perform well in a sit down, youknow, one on one or one on three
or two on four or whatever themakeup of the your organization
representation and thefoundation's representation
looks like.
So, definitely something toconsider is language access, uh,
(29:17):
and, and other things that mighthelp folks best perform in that
environment.
But I find that sitting down,having a conversation with folks
about a program is much morepersonal and it also helps you
if you're someone applying forthese funds, ask questions about
what the priorities of thefoundation are.
(29:38):
And so you can really tailor andtalk specifically to that.
about how your programs alignwith their motivations for this
funding.
And that's not some way ofmanipulating what your program
is going to do.
It's actually being able to say,okay, this is something that
you're finding as an importantpart of the consideration to
(29:58):
give me money.
This is absolutely something theprograms address, but maybe we
don't, uh, Highlight that asspecifically in app, in normal
applications for this program.
So these interviews give folks amuch more personal way to talk
about the program in a waythat's not read in like 5 to 750
characters in the question of along grant application.
(30:22):
I also like seeing reportingchanging and reports also
including interviews whereFoundation staff will call and
check in.
And that is the reportingrequirement for the
organization.
Organizations are alreadycapacity strapped and limited in
how much data processing andcollection that they can do.
(30:43):
So while I always encourage andI'm a big fan of data and like,
yes, collect data that isimportant and can help measure
success and monitor impact andthings like that, but also
recognize that so many of us arereally time and capacity
restricted.
And so that data collection andcomprehensive reporting simply
(31:04):
to fulfill the requirements of agrant that you received,
sometimes not even a grant.
over a few thousand dollars canbe an unnecessary burden on the
operations of smallorganizations.
So I really encouragefoundations to adopt processes
where they're calling and doingcheck ins and having maybe an
interview style, um,conversation at the end of a
(31:28):
program term and talk about thesuccesses, the challenges that
the organization faced, and thenfoundation staff actually write
up the report.
I've seen this happen.
In a few foundations that I'veworked with, and I find that to
be a much more equitable andaccessible process.
The other thing that I encouragefoundations to consider is to co
(31:49):
create measures of success withthe organizations that you are
funding.
Oftentimes grants are saying,Oh, you need to show us outcomes
on this, this, this, and this,where that might not always
align with the programs thatfolks are running.
And it might not actually be themost impactful things to
measure.
So work with.
with organizations onunderstanding what impact
(32:12):
they're having that they want tohave and what are the most
effective ways to measure that.
And also, what are the mosteffective ways to measure that
within the capacity that theorganization has?
And if the organization doesn'tcurrently have capacity, funders
should be considering how toprovide additional technical
assistance resources in additionto funding to make sure Measures
(32:36):
are being tracked, and that'smutually beneficial for both the
organization as well as thefoundation, because then there's
more data and information thatcan be used in other grant
applications, but also for thefoundation's board and the folks
that are asking about the impactof their investments.
And please, for the love of allthat is sacred, stop it with
(32:58):
reimbursable grants.
Reimbursable grants is acompletely.
inequitable process, full stop.
There is so few small,especially organizations that
have the cash in the bank tooutput all of the dollars in
order to then have to justifytheir use of those dollars to
(33:19):
then receive the funding from anorganization after the fact.
And this drives me particularlywild when.
Individual artists and creativesare asked to do that, you know,
we're going to give you a 10,000 grant, but you have to spend
the 10, 000 upfront most artistsand folks that I know working in
(33:40):
community doing impactful work,do not have 10, 000 lying around
to invest in a project that theythen have to justify getting
reimbursements for, which I'vealso seen challenges of like,
well, these, you know, 5 here.
It doesn't seem like it actuallyfit the criteria of the grant.
So we're not going to give youthat.
And then it adds up to, Oh,actually about a thousand
(34:03):
dollars of this.
We just decided are not going tobe considered eligible for
reimbursement.
So we're going to give you 9,000 of the 10, 000, even though
you spent 10.
So stop it with reimbursablegrants.
I could go on, but I won't.
I'm just going to leave thatthere.
MG is actually also working on apodcast, which I got to talk to
them a little bit about.
MG Xiong (34:23):
So it's gonna be true story, trans realities and
uniting experiences.
And for me, this came a lotthrough the education and
training I do through MTPC.
I am meeting with cis peopleevery day, and I have spent like
the last two years kind ofperfecting a trans 101
curriculum.
(34:43):
How do I introduce people totrans experience in a way that
is meaningful and alsoaccessible?
Many folks that I meet with, I'mthe first trans person they're
meeting.
This is their first exposure toreally talking about gender as
an expansive experience.
And one of the activities that Ido is gender memories.
(35:04):
And so I ask people to reflecton their earliest memories of
gender.
of gender.
When they recognized theirgender, when they realized it
was a thing that impacted theirnavigation of the world, when
they might have been forced upona gender norm that didn't feel
right to them.
And every single time I ask cispeople this question, they share
(35:25):
this story.
That so closely relates to whatwe call dysphoria, or feeling
left out because of theirgender, or feeling like they
needed to perform in onespecific way.
And then, as we kind of unpackthat, I share how similar our
experiences can be.
And that, for many folks, that'show they finally conceptualize
(35:46):
gender as an expansiveexperience.
That they, too, have been putinto this rigid binary, this
rigid way of being, and doingthat through storytelling,
through the podcast.
And so, really wanting toexplore what are people's
memories of gender from the verystart of their life.
How have we conceptualized oursocialization of gender?
(36:07):
And unpacking my gender journeyand story as well through
conversational interviews withother folks and their gender
journeys.
Joshua Croke (36:14):
So I want to ask, what are your earliest memories
of gender?
How was gender defined to you?
How have you observed this thingknown as quote unquote gender
out in the world?
I want to reintroduce feedbackloop, which is our segment where
we're going to feature voiceclips and messages from
listeners about your thoughts,feelings, comments about gender.
(36:39):
things that we're talking abouton the show.
I'd love if you'd considersending us a voice memo.
You can send it to me directlyat josh at queer4cities.
com and it might just end up onthe show.
Reflecting on this personallyfor myself, I, as I've mentioned
before, I grew up in a veryconservative religious
household, very successfullysheltered in a very homogenous
(37:04):
environment, both at church, atschool, at which was a private
church school for a largemajority of my early childhood.
And even in our social spaces,it was all friends from church,
etc.
So, my view of the world wasvery myopic.
And I remember as a little kid,I loved playing make believe.
(37:25):
Playing make believe was likethe thing that I would just live
in the clouds.
I would take on differentidentities or personas or
characters from Shows that Ilove and I was so frequently
drawn to feminine characters.
I specifically remember likebeing obsessed with Jasmine when
we would play like Disney orAladdin or what, what have you.
(37:49):
And while that doesn't alwaysmean that you're going to grow
up to be queer and trans, um, inmy case, it definitely was part
of my gender journey that wasdiscouraged at such an early age
that I didn't.
Connect it until much, muchlater in life as part of my
gender journey.
And for a long time, I didn'thave the language or
(38:12):
understanding to separate mygender and sexuality journey so
that they were so intermixedthat when I was kind of thrown
out of the closet in high schoolwhen I was starting to
experiment and ask questions,um, this is by, at, at this
point I was in.
public high school.
So when I was outed, I was facedwith this, Oh, do I claim this
(38:33):
and stay out and proud?
Do I try and retreat and, andsay that this isn't true?
And when I decided to claim atthe time, gay identity, it had
to mean so much because on onehand facing it at home, I was
also outed or discovered at homearound the same time.
(38:56):
So it was a very turbulent.
time in my early high schoolyears, um, to, to be navigating
questions around my sexualityand not understanding that
gender was also rattling aboutin there as well, something I
didn't realize for another 10plus years.
But um, I had to be soconfidently gay.
(39:18):
because of any chance family orunsupportive folks would get to
say, ah, you know, you'reconfused.
It means you don't know thatyou're this way.
It means you're probably not.
And we need to reeducate or getyou back on the right path,
quote unquote, the right path asthe folks in church would like
to say.
(39:38):
So coming out, not when I wasready and Uh, given that
challenge and the, theturbulence of that time, there
was also this like, okay,something about myself that I
know is there and is true is outin the open.
And that is like a sigh ofrelief moment.
But I also had to buckle downin, or at least I felt that I
(40:00):
had to really buckle down in, inmy confidence around my identity
so quickly that I didn't reallyget.
to give myself where I didn'tafford myself the time to really
explore the nuances of mysexuality, of my gender in a way
that was safe in a way thatallowed me to better understand
(40:20):
who I was.
And for years and years andyears following being out and
having to feel so confident inlike, this is how I identify.
You can't tell me anydifferently.
It was this defense mechanismthat prevented me from tapping
into a deeper understanding ofmyself.
And for so long, I defined myqueerness based on the comfort
(40:41):
level of those around me andshape shifted and took different
forms based on what was going tomake me feel safe, but also
accepted by folks.
who I felt had an expectation ofwhat me being a gay man at the
time looked like.
So jumping back to what I wasoriginally saying about gender
(41:02):
and gender roles and thedefinitions of gender and how it
was presented to us when we werekids, like, I had a complete
lack of ability to talk aboutgender, and it was also
intertwined with everything thatI was fighting.
I was that kid who, I grew upwith a lot of cousins, And we
were all very close, very closein age.
(41:24):
There's 10 of us.
I was always closer with myfemale cousins.
And, you know, I didn't reallyfit in to the things that the
boys were doing, by and large.
And also, you know, struggledwith having a desire to do the
things that were quote unquoteboys things, like sports, and
like all of those things that weknow are not gendered.
(41:46):
And there are lots of women andgirls who love sports and things
that are Traditionally definedas masculine or manly or for
boys.
And so I really just was wantingto be this little human that had
an interest in things likefashion.
(42:06):
I grew up going thrift shoppingwith my mom and my grandmother
all the time.
And was drawn to things thatwere like, no, that's for girls.
And those responses andreactions you internalize and
build and build and build theseconstructs in your mind of like,
Oh, I am a kid.
And I think that shiny pink.
(42:27):
Boa is cool.
Why can't I touch it?
It makes no sense to me.
An adult is telling me that Ican't so they must be right
because they're a lot older thanme.
So I'm gonna trust them and youhave no idea the impact that
that has on young people and notjust on how we express and
(42:47):
dress, but also the things thatwe choose to do with our lives,
the careers that we pursue.
Um, You know, the, the ways inwhich we spend our time, the
hobbies that we get involved inthat bring us joy.
Sometimes people shut themselvesoff so completely to things that
would otherwise make them thriveand feel joy.
(43:08):
And in many cases continue.
Their survival that we shut downbecause of these gender roles.
So anyways, I'm excited for MG'spodcast.
So keep an eye out for truestory trans realities and
uniting experiences from MG.
And so in our continued work tobuild more inclusive communities
(43:31):
where queer and trans folksthrive I've asked each guest the
question, what do ourcommunities need to make queer a
joyful norm?
MD gave one of the mostactionable responses yet.
MG Xiong (43:42):
We need radical accountability towards one
another and for me that lookslike ensuring that we are caring
for one another and that when weare holding someone accountable
that means that we care aboutthem enough that we know that
they are capable of more.
Joshua Croke (44:03):
In our journey to cultivate just and equitable
communities, the practice ofaccountability is pivotal, but
it's often an absent or veryunpracticed element.
How can we hold each otheraccountable when we are not
together?
How can we fosteraccountability, an opportunity
for reflection and change, whenconversations are avoided or
(44:24):
people are prematurely excluded?
I feel that a lot of Americansociety equates accountability
with punishment, that in orderto, for something to be fixed,
someone must lose something.
I have been inspired and changedby the work of Adrienne Marie
Brown and her book, We Will NotCancel Us, and Other Dreams of
(44:44):
Transformative Justice, which ispart of the Emergent Strategies
series, which guides so much ofhow I move through this
existence.
Transcribed and has inspired meand encouraged me to face how
I've held myself and othersaccountable and how to reshape
that toward love andpossibility.
In this book, Adrian says, Iwant our movement to feel like a
(45:05):
vibrant, accountable space wherecausing harm does not mean you
are excluded immediately andeternally from healing, justice,
community, or belonging.
As we continue theseconversations with Queer for
Cities, I am rooted in thequestion of how we might better
hold ourselves, our queer andtrans siblings, our community
(45:26):
leaders, folks actively workingto remove our rights, freedoms,
and safeties also, to accountthat contribute to healing and
transformation rather thanexclusion and divisiveness.
How might we reimagineaccountability as a tool for
collective empowerment andrestoration, paving the way for
a more compassionate and justsociety?
(45:48):
Adrian continues, if I can seethe ways I am perpetuating
systemic oppressions, if I cansee where I learned the behavior
and how hard it is to unlearnit, I start to have more
humility as I see the messinessof the communities.
I am a part of the world I livein.
MG Xiong (46:07):
That effort that we put into loving each other, to
affirming each other, toproducing joy, makes all of the
difference in our everyday.
A mantra that I have for myselfis that if I take care of the
days, the weeks and months willtake care of themselves.
And so I just need to focus onBeing kind to others today,
doing my best today, whateverthat best looks like in holding
(46:31):
myself accountable and otherstoday and that the weeks and
months will then take care ofthemselves.
And so just focusing on now andhow we can love and protect and,
and produce peace for, for oneanother.
Joshua Croke (46:47):
This is our movement, the production of
peace.
I'm so honored to be holdingspace with folks like MG and
Taj, sharing learning, fosteringnew and deepening existing
relationships, and workingtoward a more just and liberated
world where everyone thrives.
I believe to do that, we verymuch need to center the lives
and experiences of queer andtrans people.
(47:09):
The moment in time that we livein, is a critical factor in how
we participate in change work.
We're at a time where 2SLGBTQIAplus people are a talking point
on a pulpit of hate and fear.
There are people removing ourrights to exist in space, from
using the bathroom we're mostcomfortable in, to playing the
sports that we want to play, onthe team that aligns with our
(47:31):
gender.
Our history is being removedfrom schools through book bans
and censorships, and we're beingdenied healthcare access that is
proven to be life saving.
Our mission is to make queer ajoyful norm.
Because when we build inclusiveand loving communities where
queer and trans folks thrive, webuild better places for
(47:52):
everyone.
In our first episodes of Queerfor Cities, we've talked about
having challenging conversationswith folks in our lives that
aren't supportive of queer andtrans people, and when to
disengage to protect ourspirits.
We've explored possible futuresfor religion and spirituality
that embrace each person'sjourney to bloom into our truest
(48:12):
selves.
And we've envisioned transfutures where we all have
enough.
And brought it back down to thepresent by talking about how the
current flow of resources fromphilanthropy and corporations
could catalyze more rapidchange, but often slows the
transformational work we need todo because of current funding
restrictions, limitations, andpriorities.
(48:34):
In our next episode, we talkwith Aaron Greiner, an urban
designer based in Somerville,Massachusetts, about the right
to be queer in public.
Or lack thereof, and what thatmeans for how we are able to
navigate space and our safety.
You're listening to Queer forCities.
I'm your host, Joshua Kroak, andI'm out to make queer a joyful
(48:57):
norm.
You can hear us loud and queerwherever you get your podcasts,
and on WICN 90.
5 FM, Worcester's only NPRaffiliate station.
Jack Tripp is our assistantproducer and Giuliano D'Orazio
is our audio engineer and musicproducer.
You can learn more about ourshow, send us a voice memo, and
more at queerforcities.
(49:18):
com.
Hey folks, it's Josh.
Do you have challenges in yourcommunity that require
(49:39):
collaborative and creativesolutions?
My team specializes in formingand facilitating collaborative
partnerships and findingcreative solutions to community
challenges, and I'd love to talkwith you about working together.
I also am available to speak ontopics of queer identity,
equitable community development,and cultivating inclusive
creative ecosystems.
Send me an email at josh atqueerforcities.
(50:01):
com to find a time to explorepossibilities together.
Hey Queer for Cities fans! Didyou know that we've got merch?
We've got a growing list ofoptions over at queerforcities.
com slash store, where you canrep merch from tees to totes
(50:22):
that support the creation ofqueer media like our Queer for
Cities podcast.
What do you want to see in thestore?
Send us a DM on Instagram atqueer4cities.
See you in the streets!
Hello, hello, hello folks coming in loud and
queer with Queer for Cities.
I'm your host Joshua Prok, andI'm out to make queer a joyful
norm.
Our show is about the design ofcities and communities at the
intersection of identity andplace, centering the role queer
and trans folks play in thiswork.
We're bringing together voicesfrom across the spectrum, from
queer artists and agitators toarchitects, urban planners, and
(00:28):
activists to share theirstories, challenges, and
triumphs in creating inclusive.
Spaces and Equitable Cities.
Our thesis for this show is thatwhen we build more queer
inclusive cities, we buildbetter cities for everyone.
In part one of this kickoffepisode, which got long so I
split it into two, we heard fromTaj Smith about navigating
(00:48):
challenging conversations andimagining the future of
religions that embrace andaffirm queer and trans folks.
You also briefly heard from MGXiong.
MG Xiong (00:57):
I'm MG Chong.
I use they them their aspronouns, and I am Hmong
Transmasculine and non-binary.
I'm originally from Anchorage,Alaska, actually, and I now live
in Medford with my sweet babycat Meatball.
Joshua Croke (01:12):
MG Chong is the director of programs for the
Massachusetts TransgenderPolitical Coalition and has
organized community-orientedinitiatives focused on trans and
queer rights, combating gunviolence in underserved
neighborhoods, and promotinganti-racist education.
MG has served youth and adultsalike, building community
between generations, cultures,and identities.
(01:33):
They are a recent graduate fromUMass Boston and spent their
undergraduate educationresearching best practices for
fostering belonging for gendernon conforming individuals in
spaces of learning.
MG Xiong (01:43):
A lot of my initial work and just kind of existence
in Anchorage gave way to thefoundation of who I am, and even
though I didn't step into mytransness or my queerness until
moving to Boston, I feel like inmy time in in Anchorage, there
was this togetherness that I.
(02:04):
felt much more strongly therebeing with people where we're
all one degree removed fromanother and in some way shape or
form really shaped me into howcommunity oriented I am now and
how important identity is to mein all different types of facets
and Anchorage being one of themost Diversities in the US as a
(02:24):
whole and the high school that Iwent to being the second most
diverse in the nation alsoreally just gave way to so much
genuine thought about identitythat I hadn't found when I had
moved here that didn't exist.
Joshua Croke (02:40):
I asked MG if they found similarities between
Anchorage and Boston, and theysaid that a lot of the
similarities were due to goingto UMass Boston, which is the
third most diverse university inthe nation, which connected to
their experiences andenvironments when MG was in
school in Alaska.
I asked MG about becomingcommitted to their work in
community, and how that isinterconnected to their own
(03:02):
identity.
MG Xiong (03:03):
I've now long been involved in transgender advocacy
and community building.
That started off with work thatI was doing with gun violence in
Anchorage.
This was during the height ofthe March for Our Lives movement
as well.
That really engendered my workin community.
And it wasn't until I came intomy transness when I was about
(03:26):
like 19 or so, that it just madeperfect sense for, it felt like
everything that I was doing hadculminated into this moment of
stepping into my transness.
It gave me so much energy at thetime and I just felt so
rejuvenated by the people that Iwas meeting, the conversations
that I was having, and I willsay now that that novelty is
(03:50):
wearing off as the work becomesincreasingly difficult.
Joshua Croke (03:55):
MG was also a speaker at first event on a
powerful panel titled by us forus surviving and supporting each
other as trans non binary andgender non conforming people
working in TGNC spaces.
So I was a first event firsttimer.
It was my first timeparticipating in the conference
and I don't think I've ever everbeen in a space where the
(04:16):
majority of people were transand non binary folks, and the
fact that that event is about usand our experiences and building
communities was something reallyspecial.
Although I spent most of my timecoordinating and interviewing
some of the awesome guests thatwere featuring this season like
Taj and MG, um, I do hope to goback and experience more of the
(04:37):
workshops and events in thefuture.
First Event also provides spacefor folks to connect and
organize around challengesfacing queer and trans folks
across communities, fromdifferent cities and towns.
Uh, there were people that I metwho had come up from Florida and
came to First Event specificallybecause of the anti trans
(04:58):
legislation that they are facingin their communities.
and how they are looking at howto best advocate for their kids.
Some folks told me they wereeven considering moving to
Massachusetts because of howtoxic the environments have
become in some states across thenation.
Many of the issues that we faceas queer and trans folks and the
(05:18):
advocacy work that we do incommunities is similar here in
Massachusetts, across NewEngland, across the country, but
oftentimes we're disconnectedfrom the advocacy efforts of
others.
Other folks, because we're oftenin the day to day weeds and on
the ground work that we're doingin our own community.
So something that I'm thinkingabout a lot, especially with the
(05:40):
advent of this show is how we'renetworked, how we're mobilizing
together, both at local state,regional national scale is part
of the work in and of itself.
And that can be really difficultto spend time doing.
And like I said, when we're inour on the ground day to day,
Which can already overextend us.
So I'm hoping that Queer forCities can help to build and
(06:03):
expand networks here in NewEngland and beyond.
And if you're looking to getmore involved in network
building and communityconnectivity, please reach out
to us.
You can email me directly atjosh at queerforcities.
com.
We're going to get back to MG ina few minutes, but something I'm
really excited about with Queerfor Cities is featuring artists
and creatives, particularlypoets, spoken word artists, and
(06:25):
writers for segments during ourepisodes.
This week's featured poet isDerek Austin.
Derek is a writer, teacher,editor, and the author of
Tenderness, winner of the 2020Isabella Gardner Poetry Award,
and Trouble the Water, selectedby Mary Sivitz for the A.
Poulin, Jr.
Poetry Prize.
(06:45):
Black Sand, his first chapbook,was published by Foundlings
Press in 2022.
His debut collection was honoredas a finalist for the Kate Tufts
Discovery Award, Tom Gunn Awardfor Gay Poetry, Lambda Literary
Award for Gay Poetry, and theNorma Faber First Book Award.
Tenderness was a finalist for aGolden Poppy Award, Lambda
(07:06):
Literary Award for Gay Poetry,and a Northern California Book
Award.
Philip B.
William, author of Mutiny, anNPR, says, Austin is a lyrical
architect, rendering withurgency and plainspokenness what
is arguably the most challengingkind of loneliness that
experienced amidst others.
His second collection,Tenderness, channels the
(07:28):
unexpected pain that one onlyknows after having been touched.
He goes on to say, This is astunning collection for these
challenging times when intimacyhas escaped us, but will
eventually return.
Let this book be your primer.
Here's Derek Austin reading Daysof 2014 from his most recent
(07:48):
collection, Tenderness.
Derrick Austin (07:51):
Days of 2014, he had told me to circle the lake,
smell of pepper and pine resin.
Black people died or wentmissing that summer.
Every day it seemed, and herewas someone who wanted to find
me.
We drank red wine, heavy andbitter.
(08:14):
Sunlight moved across the lakewith the hours.
Turns mixed their shadows andbodies in the water.
When he laughed, little foamgathered on his incisors.
He helped me into the wild grassand slash pines when I couldn't
walk.
There is a roof, One man's bodymakes over another.
(08:37):
Pine needles and sharp grains.
This is what I remember.
This is how I escaped the world.
A little foam.
Joshua Croke (08:48):
Love Your Labels is a non profit that supports
queer and trans youth throughart, fashion, and design based
programs that explore gender,identity, and expression, and
works to connect youth tocreative opportunities that
align with their passions thatlead to positive life outcomes
and fulfilling careers.
Love Your Labels also works withfamilies and communities to
create inclusive and lovingspaces everywhere through
(09:09):
programs like Drag Story Timeand Queer AF, an art and fashion
show celebrating the uniquebeauty of every person.
Queer AF returns to MechanicsHall in Worcester on Friday,
September 6th, and you can learnmore at loveyourlabels.
com.
As someone working with transfolks across the state, many of
(09:32):
whom have experienced violence,houselessness, and mental health
struggles that MG works tosupport, MG opened up about the
compartmentalization that issometimes needed to continue
doing this work in support ofpeople in struggle, and quote,
the skill in which I witnesstrans suffering.
They went on to acknowledge thetrauma that can come from this
(09:52):
as well.
So in our conversation, I askedMG about how we build this
liberated world we want toexperience ourselves.
I've always felt
MG Xiong (10:02):
like where there is no hope or vision of the future, it
is incumbent upon us to inventit, and to invent that future.
And so The suffering that I see,it never gets any easier, but it
continues to fuel that fire thatI have to continually invent new
trans futures for us.
So I think the physicallandscape of that is this modge
(10:26):
podge of communal living thatlooks like pedestrian dignity,
and it looks like not justaffordable housing, but quite
frankly, free housing, and thesecommunity centers that are
intergenerational.
I was at a, I don't know, thisworkshop thing back in December
with a bunch of other LGBTQleaders here in Boston, and one
(10:49):
of the things we were doing wasenvisioning any possibility of
trans futures.
And we all came up with thesebrilliant ideas of
intergenerational, interculturalspaces that center joy, that
center health and wellness, Andreally what we came to the
conclusion of is that we cannotbe well in an unwell world.
(11:14):
And so pushing towards thatvision in any way that we can,
both in the physical landscapeand our day to day being.
Joshua Croke (11:21):
This is so resonant with a lot of the work
that I do and advocacy around.
The ability to exist and live inthe spaces that make us feel
welcome, comfortable, affirmed.
They could be the places that wegrew up.
They could be the places that wehave found as queer folks that
(11:41):
are loving and affirming wherewe have built a community.
But we, have such a challengedsystem that continues to inflate
the cost of living in spacesthat folks occupy, especially
cities, especially here in NewEngland, Massachusetts is the
most expensive state to live in,in the country.
(12:05):
And we are seeing folks movingout.
of Massachusetts because of alack of affordable and not even
affordable in the term, like theactual like definition of
affordable housing, but justlike affordable for people
across many different incomelevels.
And so When MG is talking aboutvisions of the future that
(12:28):
include things like communalliving and free housing I want
to point out and this issomething that we're going to
talk about in later episodeswith one interview that comes to
mind is with Aaron Greiner fromCulture House who is an urban
planner, but really talkingabout how zoning We're going to
(12:50):
talk about zoning to, uh, howzoning prevents a diverse
approach to building housingthat caters to the diversity of
people within communities andthe diverse ways in which people
want to live and exist.
I could.
I would love to live in a placethat is, maybe it's a decently
(13:15):
sized property where there areapartment style housing units
that are owned by its residentsand there are shared spaces on
those grounds that, uh, wouldbenefit everybody.
Maybe living room slashgathering space.
art studio music space, we seeprojects, uh, like artists live
(13:36):
workspace that are popping upthat are starting to model some
of that vision.
And this is something that Iwant to see made more accessible
to people and, uh, also connectpeople into wealth building
opportunities by being able topurchase land outside of the
very.
like traditional and exclusiveways in which folks are able to
(13:58):
step into home ownership now andpresently.
I can tell you living inWorcester we just got ranked the
third most expensive place tolive in New England, I think was
the stat.
And I can tell you as a renterthat purchasing a home given my
current conditions and resourcesis not feasible nor possible and
(14:24):
I could maybe look at Purchasinga home outside of the city and
then it goes into perpetuatingthis this Cycle of oh now I have
to go and infringe on someoneelse's Community because I can't
afford to stay in my own and sowe're gonna dive deeper into
that But I want to also upliftthat dignified quality housing
(14:46):
can be built And can beaccessible across income levels.
We do not.
We need to hold developers andfolks that are in these spaces
more accountable to not lookingat what is the highest possible
return on their investment.
But what is also creatingdignified quality space for
(15:06):
people?
We'll get more into that aswell.
And there's also an abundanceversus a deficit mindset here.
And a lot of change.
Uh, work that I'm involved in,we have to talk intentionally
about shifting from the mindsetthat we are so socialized to
think of, which is there is notenough to go around.
(15:27):
How could you even possiblyimagine giving someone housing?
That's just doesn't make sense.
Where's the money going to comefrom?
To a mindset of abundancesaying.
That we know that there areresources that are available
that can solve this.
We're not prioritizing thingsthat are truly uplifting
everyone in community.
(15:47):
And that does have a negativeimpact and repercussion on
everybody, not just folks thatare living under a certain
income threshold.
On Deficit, there is the realitythat, right now, accessing the
wealth of resources that arerich in this world is extremely
difficult, and that queer andtrans folks and organizations
(16:07):
serving us have to fight forpennies.
MG Xiong (16:10):
Our mission is to serve all trans people in
Massachusetts.
We estimate there to be around55, 000 trans folks in the
state, and there's three of us.
You know, not, not citizenly forpeople out here doing all of the
work, but at our org.
And.
We frequently say that our jobsshouldn't have to exist, and I
think this is especially truefor my colleague who's the
director of development.
(16:31):
Her entire job is getting moneyfrom people with much more
access to wealth and privilege.
Joshua Croke (16:38):
And when I said pennies earlier, I actually mean
pennies.
Research out of the StonewallFoundation found that for every
hundred dollars awarded by U.
S.
foundations in 2021, only 28cents specifically supported
LGBTQ communities and issues,with just four cents being
dedicated to trans communities.
(17:00):
MG and I talk more about thephilanthropic industrial complex
in a minute, but I asked MGabout what's inspired them as
they engage in this work.
What drives them?
The
MG Xiong (17:10):
Faggots and Their Friends Between Revolutions by
Larry Mitchell is a poeticmemoir about the Lavender Hill
commune in in upstate New Yorkin the 70s and I see so much of
that in my my envisioning fortrans futures because it's
(17:32):
discussing how we all have arole to play in trans thriving.
And that role isn't necessarilyphilanthropist or funder or, you
know, community programdirector.
It's really just offering ourbest to others, offering what we
have and sharing that.
And I remember the first timethat I was reading this book,
(17:54):
there was this point where itwas saying that queer thriving
is when we all have enough.
And at first I pushed back and Isaid, Well, why is it just
enough?
Why is it the bare minimum?
Why is it not more than that?
Why is it not abundance?
But then I sat with that for fora while and and why I felt like
there needed to be more thanjust enough.
(18:16):
And the more I sat with it, themore I realized that Having what
we need is enough.
Joshua Croke (18:23):
This framing is really beautiful.
Enough, for me, is a word that'sbeen rooted in deficit.
It's like, okay, I can actuallysurvive if I have food to eat
and a roof over my head.
But that's constructed.
Enough can be abundance.
Enough should mean it'sincluding all the things that
make us feel seen, loved,valued, and experience joy.
(18:46):
To jump back on my philanthropicindustrial complex soapbox,
there is a history of howphilanthropy was constructed as
a mechanism for corporations toreceive tax breaks and funnel
money into only the issues thatthey care about.
This is why trans folks getsfour cents out of every hundred
dollars in philanthropic giving.
(19:08):
So, the people who hold wealthcontinue to hold and maintain
that wealth as well as in largepart control the way in which
their quote unquote charitableresources are given.
And there are a lot of peopleFoundations, and especially
folks that are working withinfoundations that are working to
(19:30):
change their processes, that aregiving more to BIPOC and queer
and trans organizations.
And there often continue to behurdles and barriers that
prevent us from doing the deepsystemic work that we need for
transformative change.
MG Xiong (19:44):
We're also seeing, I feel like, these one time
funding opportunities Which youknow i'm not going to to push
away But having multi year grantfunding allows organizations to
grow much more more robustly andstably because we can work
(20:09):
towards that longevity.
We can hire a staff person, notworry how we're going to pay for
them the next year.
And so having more long termrather than these, these one
offs, you know, fundingopportunities has been much more
helpful I've seen.
And also there's so manystipulations that come with so
many, many fundingopportunities.
(20:31):
You have to do it between thesemonths.
You have to.
Um, and we're going to report onjust these metrics and I think
that that's for me feels like amistrust between the funders and
our organizations.
We actually know how to do thiswork best.
We know how to effectively runthis program that is meaningful
that is impactful for ourcommunity.
(20:51):
And yet our funders say, inorder to do it right we need
this this and this it's verystringent.
And we have to follow thesespecific guidelines just to
spend this money and.
Then we're left having to shiftour, our, our program models,
shift our services in order tofit very niche requirements that
(21:12):
we're given.
And so, that is, at thefoundation of that is this
mistrust that these fundersdon't think that we know how to
spend the money in the ways thatwe know is best for our
community and for ourselves.
We're willing to put up with allof this difficulty in service of
our mission.
Because I love hanging out,supporting, being with trans
(21:34):
people, and so I then in turnput up with more of this
disgusting system.
Just because it allows me tohave that joy in my life in this
aspect.
And similar to other nonprofits, we do it because we
love the kids, or we love this,and in service of our mission,
(21:55):
it allows people to think thatthat's enough, and that's
compensation enough, and thatwe're doing it out of the
goodness of our hearts, but thegoodness of my heart doesn't get
my rent paid.
Joshua Croke (22:06):
I was like trying not to like snap and clap when
MG got real like this in ourinterview because it's not
Surprising to me why foundationsrarely allow funding to be used
for quote unquote operations,which is Always what it is is
the line item of salaries andthings like that.
People are what driveorganizations and we need to
(22:29):
invest in people.
And there is a history ofsaying, Oh, you work in
nonprofits.
I expect you to not make money.
And that creates not only a veryvisible statement around how we
value people doing work that'sliterally life saving and
(22:51):
transformational, but it issaying that we're not going to
resource these in ways that makedoing this work attractive.
And so if you want to actually,you know, find wealth and, you
know, have more autonomy overyour life, have more ability to
(23:13):
travel, move.
purchase a home, et cetera, thenyou definitely should instead
fit into the system that we'veconstructed in this quote
unquote for profit realm thanthis quote unquote non profit
realm because the, thedifference there is that, Oh,
that you, you just do thatbecause you You like to do it
instead of saying, no, thepeople that are doing this work
(23:37):
are holding the systemaccountable for failing our
communities time and time again.
I know a good handful of folkswho if a foundation approached
us and said, we're going to giveyou all 100, 000 salaries with
benefits for the next fiveyears.
No strings attached that wewould engage in truly
transformational work and wewould continue doing this work
(23:59):
and it would be from a place ofresource and we would continue
doing the work that we're doingnow have more autonomy in the
decisions that we're making inour day to day.
And let me tell you, at the endof that five years, I'd just
love to see that report, even asI'm recording this episode to
(24:20):
build this show and bring moreattention to these issues.
I've personally funded theproduction of this show.
I started love your labels fiveyears ago and have only put
money and time into theorganization completely
volunteer.
Along with our board andvolunteers.
And this is an incredibly commonstory for mission driven
organizations.
We have to spend so much timechasing money to do the programs
(24:43):
that we don't get to actually dothe work as often as we want.
And this needs to change.
If you're listening and are afunder who wants to or is
thinking differently, I wouldlove to talk with you.
If you're listening and you'redoing advocacy work around
funding, I'd love to talk withyou.
We need to distribute ourresources better, folks, and
(25:06):
philanthropy is in one of themost privileged positions to do
that.
You know, the reality is thatdespite this demand for change,
people are going to keep doingthis work because the work needs
to get done.
I think corporations and fundersknow this and often take
advantage of that.
I've been trying to get into thehabit of modeling the life we
try and show our youth theydeserve.
(25:28):
Compensation for labor, time forrest, time to enjoy the world,
create art and take space forjoy.
We talk about these things whilemaking these sacrifices behind
the scenes and it isn'tsustainable.
So let's acknowledge that wewill continue to make sacrifices
and yell from the rooftops thatwe shouldn't have to.
MG Xiong (25:51):
I feel like through the continued visibility and
affirmation of trans joy, that'sreally what keeps me going.
I have positioned myself in thistrans underground, where 99
percent of the people that Ispend 99 percent of my time with
are trans and are queer, both,you know, during my work day of
course, but also when I go home.
(26:11):
My, my chosen family, myfriends, my loved ones, and I
think that is really what givesme that hope, and what gives me
the, the power and the energyand the time to be okay doing
what I do.
And knowing that for as muchsuffering in the world that is
(26:35):
out there in great, greatnumbers, there is an equal if
not larger amount of this transjoy that exists.
any congregation of trans andqueer people makes me incredibly
emotional.
It feels like an act ofresistance, and sometimes I hate
saying that.
That us being together isprofound, it's something worth
(26:57):
celebrating.
And while I certainly I feelthat.
I wish that we didn't have
Joshua Croke (27:03):
to say that all the
MG Xiong (27:03):
time.
Joshua Croke (27:04):
Jumping in with a considering equity moment, MG
also highlighted a great exampleof the barriers people doing
good work can face when theyaren't also quote unquote great
at writing applications, whichif you are a funder looking at
making more equitable grantmaking processes, this is
something to take note of.
MG Xiong (27:22):
Many
Joshua Croke (27:22):
organizations just
MG Xiong (27:23):
don't have the training or the specific skills
that grant funders are lookingfor in exactly how they write,
how they position theirorganization, their values, and
while they're doing incrediblework.
It just comes down to how wellis this application put
together.
And so when funders aren'tproviding potential grantees
(27:46):
opportunities for thatprofessional development, for,
you know, a funder to sit downwith someone and say, you know,
this is how we can work on yourapplication together.
This is what we're looking for.
This is how we can help youposition the work that you're
doing.
And so, so often I'm seeinggrants just have that financial
distribution without any of thesupport in ensuring that there's
(28:10):
equitable access to apply in thefirst place.
Joshua Croke (28:13):
So the grants and foundation space is still in
such need of more equitablepractices, but there are folks
that are doing this work.
And I want to just shout outsome of the ways in which I've
appreciated relationships withfunders, uh, either through
process or award.
So something that I have reallyappreciated is when instead of a
(28:35):
written application, interviewsare an option, or the core way
in which folks are beingconsidered for a grant.
So you meet with someone on thefoundation staff, talk about
your program.
They ask some questions.
They take notes.
They bring it back to a reviewcommittee and the decision is
made whether or not to fund theorganization.
(28:56):
That can be a lot of work.
A little bit nerve wracking aswell, because you have to
perform well in a sit down, youknow, one on one or one on three
or two on four or whatever themakeup of the your organization
representation and thefoundation's representation
looks like.
So, definitely something toconsider is language access, uh,
(29:17):
and, and other things that mighthelp folks best perform in that
environment.
But I find that sitting down,having a conversation with folks
about a program is much morepersonal and it also helps you
if you're someone applying forthese funds, ask questions about
what the priorities of thefoundation are.
(29:38):
And so you can really tailor andtalk specifically to that.
about how your programs alignwith their motivations for this
funding.
And that's not some way ofmanipulating what your program
is going to do.
It's actually being able to say,okay, this is something that
you're finding as an importantpart of the consideration to
(29:58):
give me money.
This is absolutely something theprograms address, but maybe we
don't, uh, Highlight that asspecifically in app, in normal
applications for this program.
So these interviews give folks amuch more personal way to talk
about the program in a waythat's not read in like 5 to 750
characters in the question of along grant application.
(30:22):
I also like seeing reportingchanging and reports also
including interviews whereFoundation staff will call and
check in.
And that is the reportingrequirement for the
organization.
Organizations are alreadycapacity strapped and limited in
how much data processing andcollection that they can do.
(30:43):
So while I always encourage andI'm a big fan of data and like,
yes, collect data that isimportant and can help measure
success and monitor impact andthings like that, but also
recognize that so many of us arereally time and capacity
restricted.
And so that data collection andcomprehensive reporting simply
(31:04):
to fulfill the requirements of agrant that you received,
sometimes not even a grant.
over a few thousand dollars canbe an unnecessary burden on the
operations of smallorganizations.
So I really encouragefoundations to adopt processes
where they're calling and doingcheck ins and having maybe an
interview style, um,conversation at the end of a
(31:28):
program term and talk about thesuccesses, the challenges that
the organization faced, and thenfoundation staff actually write
up the report.
I've seen this happen.
In a few foundations that I'veworked with, and I find that to
be a much more equitable andaccessible process.
The other thing that I encouragefoundations to consider is to co
(31:49):
create measures of success withthe organizations that you are
funding.
Oftentimes grants are saying,Oh, you need to show us outcomes
on this, this, this, and this,where that might not always
align with the programs thatfolks are running.
And it might not actually be themost impactful things to
measure.
So work with.
with organizations onunderstanding what impact
(32:12):
they're having that they want tohave and what are the most
effective ways to measure that.
And also, what are the mosteffective ways to measure that
within the capacity that theorganization has?
And if the organization doesn'tcurrently have capacity, funders
should be considering how toprovide additional technical
assistance resources in additionto funding to make sure Measures
(32:36):
are being tracked, and that'smutually beneficial for both the
organization as well as thefoundation, because then there's
more data and information thatcan be used in other grant
applications, but also for thefoundation's board and the folks
that are asking about the impactof their investments.
And please, for the love of allthat is sacred, stop it with
(32:58):
reimbursable grants.
Reimbursable grants is acompletely.
inequitable process, full stop.
There is so few small,especially organizations that
have the cash in the bank tooutput all of the dollars in
order to then have to justifytheir use of those dollars to
(33:19):
then receive the funding from anorganization after the fact.
And this drives me particularlywild when.
Individual artists and creativesare asked to do that, you know,
we're going to give you a 10,000 grant, but you have to spend
the 10, 000 upfront most artistsand folks that I know working in
(33:40):
community doing impactful work,do not have 10, 000 lying around
to invest in a project that theythen have to justify getting
reimbursements for, which I'vealso seen challenges of like,
well, these, you know, 5 here.
It doesn't seem like it actuallyfit the criteria of the grant.
So we're not going to give youthat.
And then it adds up to, Oh,actually about a thousand
(34:03):
dollars of this.
We just decided are not going tobe considered eligible for
reimbursement.
So we're going to give you 9,000 of the 10, 000, even though
you spent 10.
So stop it with reimbursablegrants.
I could go on, but I won't.
I'm just going to leave thatthere.
MG is actually also working on apodcast, which I got to talk to
them a little bit about.
MG Xiong (34:23):
So it's gonna be true story, trans realities and
uniting experiences.
And for me, this came a lotthrough the education and
training I do through MTPC.
I am meeting with cis peopleevery day, and I have spent like
the last two years kind ofperfecting a trans 101
curriculum.
(34:43):
How do I introduce people totrans experience in a way that
is meaningful and alsoaccessible?
Many folks that I meet with, I'mthe first trans person they're
meeting.
This is their first exposure toreally talking about gender as
an expansive experience.
And one of the activities that Ido is gender memories.
(35:04):
And so I ask people to reflecton their earliest memories of
gender.
of gender.
When they recognized theirgender, when they realized it
was a thing that impacted theirnavigation of the world, when
they might have been forced upona gender norm that didn't feel
right to them.
And every single time I ask cispeople this question, they share
(35:25):
this story.
That so closely relates to whatwe call dysphoria, or feeling
left out because of theirgender, or feeling like they
needed to perform in onespecific way.
And then, as we kind of unpackthat, I share how similar our
experiences can be.
And that, for many folks, that'show they finally conceptualize
(35:46):
gender as an expansiveexperience.
That they, too, have been putinto this rigid binary, this
rigid way of being, and doingthat through storytelling,
through the podcast.
And so, really wanting toexplore what are people's
memories of gender from the verystart of their life.
How have we conceptualized oursocialization of gender?
(36:07):
And unpacking my gender journeyand story as well through
conversational interviews withother folks and their gender
journeys.
Joshua Croke (36:14):
So I want to ask, what are your earliest memories
of gender?
How was gender defined to you?
How have you observed this thingknown as quote unquote gender
out in the world?
I want to reintroduce feedbackloop, which is our segment where
we're going to feature voiceclips and messages from
listeners about your thoughts,feelings, comments about gender.
(36:39):
things that we're talking abouton the show.
I'd love if you'd considersending us a voice memo.
You can send it to me directlyat josh at queer4cities.
com and it might just end up onthe show.
Reflecting on this personallyfor myself, I, as I've mentioned
before, I grew up in a veryconservative religious
household, very successfullysheltered in a very homogenous
(37:04):
environment, both at church, atschool, at which was a private
church school for a largemajority of my early childhood.
And even in our social spaces,it was all friends from church,
etc.
So, my view of the world wasvery myopic.
And I remember as a little kid,I loved playing make believe.
(37:25):
Playing make believe was likethe thing that I would just live
in the clouds.
I would take on differentidentities or personas or
characters from Shows that Ilove and I was so frequently
drawn to feminine characters.
I specifically remember likebeing obsessed with Jasmine when
we would play like Disney orAladdin or what, what have you.
(37:49):
And while that doesn't alwaysmean that you're going to grow
up to be queer and trans, um, inmy case, it definitely was part
of my gender journey that wasdiscouraged at such an early age
that I didn't.
Connect it until much, muchlater in life as part of my
gender journey.
And for a long time, I didn'thave the language or
(38:12):
understanding to separate mygender and sexuality journey so
that they were so intermixedthat when I was kind of thrown
out of the closet in high schoolwhen I was starting to
experiment and ask questions,um, this is by, at, at this
point I was in.
public high school.
So when I was outed, I was facedwith this, Oh, do I claim this
(38:33):
and stay out and proud?
Do I try and retreat and, andsay that this isn't true?
And when I decided to claim atthe time, gay identity, it had
to mean so much because on onehand facing it at home, I was
also outed or discovered at homearound the same time.
(38:56):
So it was a very turbulent.
time in my early high schoolyears, um, to, to be navigating
questions around my sexualityand not understanding that
gender was also rattling aboutin there as well, something I
didn't realize for another 10plus years.
But um, I had to be soconfidently gay.
(39:18):
because of any chance family orunsupportive folks would get to
say, ah, you know, you'reconfused.
It means you don't know thatyou're this way.
It means you're probably not.
And we need to reeducate or getyou back on the right path,
quote unquote, the right path asthe folks in church would like
to say.
(39:38):
So coming out, not when I wasready and Uh, given that
challenge and the, theturbulence of that time, there
was also this like, okay,something about myself that I
know is there and is true is outin the open.
And that is like a sigh ofrelief moment.
But I also had to buckle downin, or at least I felt that I
(40:00):
had to really buckle down in, inmy confidence around my identity
so quickly that I didn't reallyget.
to give myself where I didn'tafford myself the time to really
explore the nuances of mysexuality, of my gender in a way
that was safe in a way thatallowed me to better understand
(40:20):
who I was.
And for years and years andyears following being out and
having to feel so confident inlike, this is how I identify.
You can't tell me anydifferently.
It was this defense mechanismthat prevented me from tapping
into a deeper understanding ofmyself.
And for so long, I defined myqueerness based on the comfort
(40:41):
level of those around me andshape shifted and took different
forms based on what was going tomake me feel safe, but also
accepted by folks.
who I felt had an expectation ofwhat me being a gay man at the
time looked like.
So jumping back to what I wasoriginally saying about gender
(41:02):
and gender roles and thedefinitions of gender and how it
was presented to us when we werekids, like, I had a complete
lack of ability to talk aboutgender, and it was also
intertwined with everything thatI was fighting.
I was that kid who, I grew upwith a lot of cousins, And we
were all very close, very closein age.
(41:24):
There's 10 of us.
I was always closer with myfemale cousins.
And, you know, I didn't reallyfit in to the things that the
boys were doing, by and large.
And also, you know, struggledwith having a desire to do the
things that were quote unquoteboys things, like sports, and
like all of those things that weknow are not gendered.
(41:46):
And there are lots of women andgirls who love sports and things
that are Traditionally definedas masculine or manly or for
boys.
And so I really just was wantingto be this little human that had
an interest in things likefashion.
(42:06):
I grew up going thrift shoppingwith my mom and my grandmother
all the time.
And was drawn to things thatwere like, no, that's for girls.
And those responses andreactions you internalize and
build and build and build theseconstructs in your mind of like,
Oh, I am a kid.
And I think that shiny pink.
(42:27):
Boa is cool.
Why can't I touch it?
It makes no sense to me.
An adult is telling me that Ican't so they must be right
because they're a lot older thanme.
So I'm gonna trust them and youhave no idea the impact that
that has on young people and notjust on how we express and
(42:47):
dress, but also the things thatwe choose to do with our lives,
the careers that we pursue.
Um, You know, the, the ways inwhich we spend our time, the
hobbies that we get involved inthat bring us joy.
Sometimes people shut themselvesoff so completely to things that
would otherwise make them thriveand feel joy.
(43:08):
And in many cases continue.
Their survival that we shut downbecause of these gender roles.
So anyways, I'm excited for MG'spodcast.
So keep an eye out for truestory trans realities and
uniting experiences from MG.
And so in our continued work tobuild more inclusive communities
(43:31):
where queer and trans folksthrive I've asked each guest the
question, what do ourcommunities need to make queer a
joyful norm?
MD gave one of the mostactionable responses yet.
MG Xiong (43:42):
We need radical accountability towards one
another and for me that lookslike ensuring that we are caring
for one another and that when weare holding someone accountable
that means that we care aboutthem enough that we know that
they are capable of more.
Joshua Croke (44:03):
In our journey to cultivate just and equitable
communities, the practice ofaccountability is pivotal, but
it's often an absent or veryunpracticed element.
How can we hold each otheraccountable when we are not
together?
How can we fosteraccountability, an opportunity
for reflection and change, whenconversations are avoided or
(44:24):
people are prematurely excluded?
I feel that a lot of Americansociety equates accountability
with punishment, that in orderto, for something to be fixed,
someone must lose something.
I have been inspired and changedby the work of Adrienne Marie
Brown and her book, We Will NotCancel Us, and Other Dreams of
(44:44):
Transformative Justice, which ispart of the Emergent Strategies
series, which guides so much ofhow I move through this
existence.
Transcribed and has inspired meand encouraged me to face how
I've held myself and othersaccountable and how to reshape
that toward love andpossibility.
In this book, Adrian says, Iwant our movement to feel like a
(45:05):
vibrant, accountable space wherecausing harm does not mean you
are excluded immediately andeternally from healing, justice,
community, or belonging.
As we continue theseconversations with Queer for
Cities, I am rooted in thequestion of how we might better
hold ourselves, our queer andtrans siblings, our community
(45:26):
leaders, folks actively workingto remove our rights, freedoms,
and safeties also, to accountthat contribute to healing and
transformation rather thanexclusion and divisiveness.
How might we reimagineaccountability as a tool for
collective empowerment andrestoration, paving the way for
a more compassionate and justsociety?
(45:48):
Adrian continues, if I can seethe ways I am perpetuating
systemic oppressions, if I cansee where I learned the behavior
and how hard it is to unlearnit, I start to have more
humility as I see the messinessof the communities.
I am a part of the world I livein.
MG Xiong (46:07):
That effort that we put into loving each other, to
affirming each other, toproducing joy, makes all of the
difference in our everyday.
A mantra that I have for myselfis that if I take care of the
days, the weeks and months willtake care of themselves.
And so I just need to focus onBeing kind to others today,
doing my best today, whateverthat best looks like in holding
(46:31):
myself accountable and otherstoday and that the weeks and
months will then take care ofthemselves.
And so just focusing on now andhow we can love and protect and,
and produce peace for, for oneanother.
Joshua Croke (46:47):
This is our movement, the production of
peace.
I'm so honored to be holdingspace with folks like MG and
Taj, sharing learning, fosteringnew and deepening existing
relationships, and workingtoward a more just and liberated
world where everyone thrives.
I believe to do that, we verymuch need to center the lives
and experiences of queer andtrans people.
(47:09):
The moment in time that we livein, is a critical factor in how
we participate in change work.
We're at a time where 2SLGBTQIAplus people are a talking point
on a pulpit of hate and fear.
There are people removing ourrights to exist in space, from
using the bathroom we're mostcomfortable in, to playing the
sports that we want to play, onthe team that aligns with our
(47:31):
gender.
Our history is being removedfrom schools through book bans
and censorships, and we're beingdenied healthcare access that is
proven to be life saving.
Our mission is to make queer ajoyful norm.
Because when we build inclusiveand loving communities where
queer and trans folks thrive, webuild better places for
(47:52):
everyone.
In our first episodes of Queerfor Cities, we've talked about
having challenging conversationswith folks in our lives that
aren't supportive of queer andtrans people, and when to
disengage to protect ourspirits.
We've explored possible futuresfor religion and spirituality
that embrace each person'sjourney to bloom into our truest
(48:12):
selves.
And we've envisioned transfutures where we all have
enough.
And brought it back down to thepresent by talking about how the
current flow of resources fromphilanthropy and corporations
could catalyze more rapidchange, but often slows the
transformational work we need todo because of current funding
restrictions, limitations, andpriorities.
(48:34):
In our next episode, we talkwith Aaron Greiner, an urban
designer based in Somerville,Massachusetts, about the right
to be queer in public.
Or lack thereof, and what thatmeans for how we are able to
navigate space and our safety.
You're listening to Queer forCities.
I'm your host, Joshua Kroak, andI'm out to make queer a joyful
(48:57):
norm.
You can hear us loud and queerwherever you get your podcasts,
and on WICN 90.
5 FM, Worcester's only NPRaffiliate station.
Jack Tripp is our assistantproducer and Giuliano D'Orazio
is our audio engineer and musicproducer.
You can learn more about ourshow, send us a voice memo, and
more at queerforcities.
(49:18):
com.
Hey folks, it's Josh.
Do you have challenges in yourcommunity that require
(49:39):
collaborative and creativesolutions?
My team specializes in formingand facilitating collaborative
partnerships and findingcreative solutions to community
challenges, and I'd love to talkwith you about working together.
I also am available to speak ontopics of queer identity,
equitable community development,and cultivating inclusive
creative ecosystems.
Send me an email at josh atqueerforcities.
(50:01):
com to find a time to explorepossibilities together.
Hey Queer for Cities fans! Didyou know that we've got merch?
We've got a growing list ofoptions over at queerforcities.
com slash store, where you canrep merch from tees to totes
(50:22):
that support the creation ofqueer media like our Queer for
Cities podcast.
What do you want to see in thestore?
Send us a DM on Instagram atqueer4cities.
See you in the streets!
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