December 11, 2024 • 57 mins
Wce speak with artists Nick Vaughan & Jake Margolin are Houston-based interdisciplinary artists creating an ongoing series of fifty installations made in response to little-known pre-Stonewall queer histories from each state. This multi-decade endeavor draws from recent groundbreaking academic work, the artists’ own archival research, and significant time spent learning from and collaborating with local LGBTQ community members.
Then we speak with Zachary Steele author of the book “Between the Lines”. Zachary Steele is a storyteller with a passion for blending the extraordinary and the deeply personal. From magical streets to neon-lit futures, Zachary’s novels explore love, identity, and the human condition through speculative fiction. With immersive worlds and unforgettable characters, his work spans genres like supernatural mystery, science fiction, and contemporary romance, captivating readers with heartfelt emotion and adventure.
Queer Voices airs in Houston Texas on 90.1FM KPFT and is heard as a podcast here. Queer Voices hopes to entertain as well as illuminate LGBTQ issues in Houston and beyond. Check out our socials at:
https://www.facebook.com/QueerVoicesKPFT/ and
https://www.instagram.com/queervoices90.1kpft/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, this is Queer Voices, a podcast
version of a broadcast radioshow that's been on the air in
Houston, texas, for severaldecades.
This week, debra Moncrief-Bellhas a conversation with Nick
Vaughn and his husband about anew art exhibit they will be
creating in Houston.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
We're going to be making a monumental drawing that
is going to be surrounding theentire space, and on our website
we have some images of whatthose drawings have looked like.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
In the past, we had an exhibition at the Blaffer Art
Museum of these drawings, andDebra has a conversation with
Zachary Steele about his newbook, which was just released.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I started creating music, writing lyrics for songs,
I started painting, againcreating digital art, and those
songs are actually what led meto writing is.
I had a lot of fun writingthose songs, but then I wanted
to tell stories through longerformats and that's how Between
the Lines started.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Queer Voices starts now.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
This is Deborah Moncrief-Bell and I'm talking
with husbands and artists, nickVaughn and Jake Margolin,
creating an ongoing series of 50installations made in response
to a little-known pre-Stonewallqueer histories from each state.
(01:31):
This multi-decade endeavordraws from recent groundbreaking
academic work, the artists' ownarchival research and
significant time spent learningfrom and collaborating with
local lgbtq community members.
And one of the things well,they were kind of going around
(01:52):
the united states and somehowended up coming to houston and
falling in love with it and wereintrigued by some of the
stories, and one of those eventswas town meeting, one which
took place in 1978.
They're doing a whole lot ofthings and they were on queer
(02:13):
voices a number of years ago,but they're back to talk a
little bit about town meetingone and hopefully connecting
with more people who may haveactually been there.
Tell me, in particular, howthis part of the project started
.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
We are putting on an exhibition at Art League Houston
in the spring.
That's going to have sort oftwo components.
It's going to have a visual artinstallation that is based on
archival research and someoriginal photographs we're
taking that are related to TownMeeting 1.
And then it's going to have atwo-day symposium in which we're
(02:53):
going to be getting together asmany people as we can who are
stakeholders, who are passionatein this history, and start
dreaming up what we all might doto commemorate the 50th
anniversary of town meeting,which is coming up in 2028.
And how it started was probablyin our first meeting with Ray
(03:14):
Hill, which, as you mentioned,was 10 years ago when we moved
to Houston.
We thought for six months to dosome research and got to meet
Ray at what used to be Mary's,naturally, of course.
Speaker 5 (03:26):
Now Blacksmith Coffee , and I think folks who know Ray
probably know this very well.
But the first thing that hesaid when he sat down with us
was there are people who aregoing to disagree with the way
that I tell stories, but I'm oneof the last ones standing so I
get to tell them however I want.
And one of those stories thatRay managed to embellish a
little bit was about TownMeeting 1.
(03:48):
And he told us all about howthe entire queer community had
descended on the Astrodome andhad this astonishing meeting in
the Astrodome and we were justwe were blown away.
He sort of talked about thedegree to which Town Meeting 1
had created the queerinfrastructure of Houston you
know, whether that's theMontrose Center or the Montrose
Clinic which became LegacyHealth and we sort of filed it
(04:11):
away as something that we wantedto be working on at some point.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
And then I think it was actually at his funeral that
it kind of re-entered ourimagination because there had
been so many projects in theinterim and as we started to
dive into it and learned, ofcourse, very quickly that it had
happened at the Astro Arena, westarted to understand the
incredible impact of this event,and so many people who we
(04:35):
talked to, who aren't deeplyinvolved in queer activism in
Houston, had never heard of thisevent, and as they started to
learn about it, they realized mygosh, this is like a seminal,
pivotal thing that we should allreally be knowing and
celebrating.
And so we decided well, we havea platform as artists, we can
put together exhibitions andwe're pretty good at getting
(04:58):
people together, uh, to talkabout things.
Why don't we put together anexhibition and a symposium?
And that way, when all of thesedifferent organizations and
people start planning whateverthey are going to plan for a
50th anniversary for townmeeting, we can start
cross-pollinating ideas.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
And our particular agenda is we can get artists
involved in all of this, becausewe think that, as artists, we
have a real like nimbleness ofthought, of perspective and a
lot of really diverse talentsthat our artistic community can
bring to these efforts andparticularly having, just you
(05:38):
know, profoundly lost anelection on a national scale to
memes and social media, and itfeels like in this moment
there's something missing in theactivist community or that we
can help fill in from a creativeperspective that artists may be
uniquely able to do and of themany like.
(06:01):
Obviously we know, houston hasan astonishing activist history
and has an astonishing artistichistory and for the most part in
our experience it has felt likethose worlds are often siloed
from each other, and so part ofwhat we're hoping to do over the
next four years and, you know,not just with a goal towards
(06:22):
four years, but from now throughthe next four years and then
hopefully moving forward isbring those communities together
and get some of thatcommunication happening.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
What has been the most intriguing thing that
you've learned about townmeeting so far?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
There are so many intriguing things about town
meeting.
We got to look through some ofthe original documents around it
that are at the University ofHouston Special Collections, and
one of the things that reallystuck out to me were the number
of resolutions and proposalsthat you could see then play out
(06:58):
through history, and some ofthose were things like a
resolution to make a communitycenter that would be able to
house the entire community, andthen there were other ones that
we want to know more about.
There was a resolution in thereto change how city council
members were elected at thatpoint all of them and that there
(07:22):
was a resolution in there todrive towards making city
council members that representedindividual districts, and we
want to learn more about howmuch was that part of making
that change?
Speaker 5 (07:45):
I think it was also just as we got in.
I remember when we first heardabout it, being utterly
mystified as to how so much hadbeen produced from a one-day
meeting of 4,000 people, and aswe started to go into the
archives at U of H, beginning torealize what the structure was
that had led up to it and thelistening sessions and meetings
that had happened before.
That culminated in the creationof the workbook that in some
ways, the meeting itself wasjust a sort of community
(08:05):
approval or lack thereof ofresolutions that had been made
in these earlier meetings, andit started to open up for us
different models as we, as weare pulling the community
together, as we're beginning tothink about what structure this
might take and how we may getpeople to organize together,
what models might be mosteffective, where open space
(08:27):
meetings play a role, where LoisWeaver's long table discussions
, where that form fits in, whereconsensus-driven governance
fits in, and so it's just gottenus thinking a lot about form
and the way to get really broadcross-community representation
in these discussions.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
The community has grown a lot and it has become
much more diverse.
It should be very interestingto see what can come out of that
, to be more inclusive and tomake sure that all the diversity
of the community is included.
There was a town meeting toothat took place in the 90s, and
(09:12):
there were some problematicthings about that.
Again, it was over at what wascalled the Astro Hall.
I did chair a platform meetingalong with Linda Morales.
One of the organizersapparently was not quite on the
up and up, and so that event haskind of just dwindled away in
(09:36):
history.
I don't know anything that cameout of it, anything positive or
good.
But now there's talk about apossible town meeting three,
which I think would be nice totake place after your symposium.
So that's something for peopleto put their thinking hats on
(10:01):
and see what they think shouldbe done with that.
The original group, the coreexecutive committee, consisted
of four people.
Rahil was one of them, charlesLaw, steve Shifflett and LaDonna
Leak.
Three of those people are nolonger with us.
(10:23):
We believe that LaDonna Leak isstill around and possibly in
Oregon, but we haven't found away to contact her.
So if anyone knows LaDonna andcould put her in touch with Nick
and Jake or give theminformation on how to reach her.
(10:44):
That would be really great,because that would be a
wonderful component to makingall of this come together as it
should.
We have been searching out, Iwas asked to assist and I've
been able to connect you toseveral people that we know were
there and had an impact on theproceedings.
(11:05):
What else are you looking for?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Well, exactly the kind of connections that you've
been wonderfully making for usis the main thing that we're
looking for right now, and so ifanybody who's listening was at
Town Meeting 1 or was reallyactive in any of the many
contemporaneous movements thatwere happening in the late 70s
in Houston, we would love to getin touch with you, we would
(11:31):
love to hear your experiencesand, of course, we would love to
invite you to this symposium inthe spring, which will be on
June 7th and 8th at Art LeagueHouston.
We've put a link on our websitewhere anybody can reach out to
us.
Our website isnickandjakestudiocom and that's
(11:51):
Nick and Jake Studio, allspelled out, and on there we've
got a link where you can justreach out to us and we will
reach right back out to you.
The way that we've made all ofour work over the last decade of
living in Houston has been acombination of doing archival
research, which is incrediblyfulfilling, but probably more
importantly, from listening topeople who have direct
(12:13):
experience with things and withevents.
For this symposium, we'replanning on putting together
several panel discussions andsome long table story sharing
discussions, and then to alsohave some breakout sessions in
which people can really sharedreams and ideas, to start
really thinking about what arethe challenges that face our
(12:34):
community, which, as youmentioned, is incredibly large
and very diverse, and what arethe different ways that we can
address these needs.
We know that, as artists, wehave been often inclined towards
making exhibitions, and it mayvery well be that we will come
out of the symposium feelinglike, oh, what we really want to
(12:54):
do is make an exhibition that'sabout this history.
Or it may be that we decidethat what's needed is a book, or
it may be that people willdecide that what's needed is
another gathering, or todovetail with what's happening
with the planning for townmeeting three, and we just hope
that all of these different,diverse perspectives are present
(13:16):
and that out of it comes awhole lot of cross-pollinated
ideas.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
In an ideal world, all of those happen.
It's not an either-or approach,it's a yes.
And every last one of thesethings that there's exhibitions,
there's publications, there'sgatherings, there's town meeting
(13:43):
, three and that we can reallymount a community response in
force to this moment.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Community response and force to this moment yes,
that would be wonderful for itto generate more activism and
more institutions or strengthensome of the current existing
institutions.
Your backgrounds are in theater, so how did you go from that,
and what was your history intheater to doing essentially
(14:09):
history research and making itart?
Speaker 5 (14:13):
We met through a devised theater company called
the Team, which is aBrooklyn-based theater company
that still exists and we stillwork with, and when I say
devised theater, what I mean isthat all of the work we did was
written by and sort of createdby the company and everyone in
(14:34):
the room.
So my background was a set andcostume designer, jake's was a
performer and writer, andeverybody writes the show
together and everybody conceivesof the show together and
everybody shapes the showtogether, and so in some ways it
led very naturally into thekind of work that we wanted to
be making.
When it felt like, just as jakeand I, as our relationship
(14:55):
started and we started dreamingup other work, it suddenly just
felt like it didn't fit in atheater, that it wasn't the kind
of work that somebody might sitdown and watch for 90 minutes,
but was something a little moreflexible in the way that viewers
would experience it.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
I remember very clearly being in Arad, romania,
with the great choreographerYoshiko Chuma, who we were
collaborating with, and we werewalking down the street and we
saw an empty building that wethought would be the perfect
place in our dream world tohouse some of the ideas that we
had been talking about.
And then we realized, oh,that's a gallery.
(15:31):
We're talking about galleries,we're talking about a gallery or
museum space.
And when we returned to theStates, we received a really
wonderful residency from anorganization called the HERE Art
Center in New York.
That gave us a three-yearresidency with an incredible
cohort of interdisciplinaryartists and really let us make
(15:52):
the shift into making visual art, making installation art,
making video art.
And in doing that project, wegot to interview a lot of
community elders, communitymembers and activists and
started to realize like, oh,this is actually, this feels
like our calling.
(16:12):
And then when we moved toHouston at the beginning of what
we call our 50 states project,in which we're making
installations in response topretty old queer histories from
each state, we'd moved hereafter completing one of these
projects in Wyoming and wethought we'd be here for about
six months and we absolutelyfell in love with Houston, with
(16:35):
the queer world in Houston, withthe activist world and with the
incredibly rich art world inHouston, and realized oh, this
is where we want to be, theseare the artists we want to be
around, these are the activistswe want to be around.
And now, 10 years later, we'rehere and we've completed six
more projects in that 50 Statesproject.
(16:56):
We've completed work inColorado, in Arkansas, in
Oklahoma, louisiana and in Texas, and, in particular, our Texas
project has branched out into anumber of other projects because
we keep on learning aboutincredible things that we just
feel absolutely compelled tomake work about.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
And when we first showed up, I think we were sort
of undercover theater artists.
We came to town and weintroduced ourselves as visual
artists and we got a studio andwe were making visual art and we
still did some theater, but itwas mostly in New York or out of
town.
And I think most of that wasfor just the internal shift in
(17:38):
us and the way that we wereapproaching our practice and the
way we were thinking about thethings we were making.
But as we got sort of moreconfident in what we were doing,
I think we've come to realizethat essentially everything we
make, whether they're drawingsor video works or lectures or
gatherings are ultimately attheir base all narrative and in
(18:00):
a way that we're still just,we're making theater, just not
in theatrical spaces Should.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I share the story about Sheila Pepe.
Oh sure, so there's anincredible artist named Sheila
Pepe who was doing an exhibitionat Diverse Works at the same
time that we had an exhibitionat Art League in 2015, I believe
and that was an exhibitionabout our Wyoming piece, for
which we had retraced this 1843expedition of 100 same-sex
(18:29):
attracted men from St Louis to aremote lake in Wyoming in the
Wind River Mountains where theythrew a six-week-long bacchanal
with wagons of liquor, a trunkof Renaissance costumes, and we
retraced their journey and alongthe way we stopped every 60
miles or so and took a soilsample and spread that over a
(18:53):
wax panel with a sort of queeredcowboy painting underneath, and
we ran over that with our truck, leaving an imprint of our
attire, sort of, as we wereretracing this pilgrimage and
Sheila Pepe came by ourexhibition and we were very
excited for her to see our workand she said after she saw it,
she was like you know, she saidcomplimentary things and then
(19:15):
she said you know, if the two ofyou stuck with wax for a really
long time, you'd get reallygood at it.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Is that a left-handed compliment?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Exactly and we were just like immediately, like oh
gosh.
But then we realized, as wewere thinking about it, that wax
was the right medium for thatparticular story.
Other stories have requiredother mediums, but that the
medium that we have becomeexpert at, the one that we've
stuck with for now 15 years, isthe medium For 25 years.
(19:43):
For 25 years, years, that'strue is narrative and we really
think of narrative as a mediumthat we're uh, that we're
continuing to explore andexcavate I think if a play came
out of this, it would just betremendous.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
I love that idea.
I mean just the idea of thesemen out on the prairie in
Renaissance costumes and thatthat happened.
It blows your mind and I havefound, the more history I learn,
the more I realize there mustbe out there and we just don't
(20:20):
know it.
And that's why the work thatyou're doing, work that they're
doing at ufh, the work that jddoyle does, is so important and
essential to our community sothat it documents and preserves
that history, knowing that we'rea history, that we have a
(20:40):
history, because I always say weare a people, we have our own
culture and we have things thatmatter, that contribute to the
larger society and needs to behonored and recognized and
appreciated.
So, jake and Nick, what issomething I didn't ask you about
(21:03):
that you want to make sure thatpeople know about?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
One thing that we haven't talked about a little
bit is the visual art exhibitionside of what we're going to be
doing for Town Meeting.
We're calling the exhibitionTown Meeting 1978 to 2028.
And for that we're going to bemaking a monumental drawing that
is going to be surrounding theentire space, and on our website
(21:29):
we have some images of whatthose drawings have looked like.
In the past we had an exhibitionat the Blaffer Art Museum of
these drawings.
But what we do to make them iswe take images, photographs
we've taken images from archivalsources and we make absolutely
mammoth stencils out of them andthen stencil loose charcoal
(21:50):
powder onto paper and then wevery carefully take the stencils
away and then we use an aircompressor to blow away all of
the charcoal.
And that motion of blowing awaythe charcoal, that force of the
wind is what actually does themark making, is what does the
drawing into the paper andembeds the charcoal into the
(22:11):
tooth of the paper, and we windup with this sort of ghost image
that holds all of theambiguities, all of the
exuberance, but also all of thesense of loss that comes with
these histories.
And so we're in the middle ofdesigning that drawing right now
we think it's going to wind upbeing 140 feet long.
Speaker 5 (22:31):
The other main part of that installation is actually
being created sort of for thepurpose of the symposium, and it
will be a large kind of modulartable that's in the center of
the space, so almost aconference table.
But it will be designed basedon the still existing pieces of
the Mary's Naturally bar topsthat are in the Gulf Coast
(22:54):
Archive and Museum collection.
And so we're going to do a verydetailed survey of those bar
tops and build handmade woodreplicas of each of those bar
tops and turn them into amodular conference table for the
convening on June 7th and 8th.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Well, it's really something to look forward to and
comes along at a time where weneed positivity and to celebrate
our community.
So I'm very excited.
I love meeting the two of you.
You're charming and you're justthe creativity, just you can
(23:30):
just crack holes around the twoof you.
So I expect something veryspecial and I know that the
Houston community will cometogether and support this and
want to be part of it.
Thank you, nick Vaughn and JakeMargolin, for being with us on
(23:53):
Queer Voices and again give thatwebsite.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Well, thank you so much for the opportunity to talk
about Town Meeting 1 and talkabout this exhibition.
It's an honor to be on QueerVoices and our website is
nickandjakestudiocom, and thereyou can join our mailing list or
you can reach out to us if youhave any wonderful stories about
Town Meeting 1 or the othercontemporaneous movements that
(24:19):
were happening in Houston at thetime.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
Yeah, I meant to touch on that about the other
movements such as the feministmovement and the other things
that were happening around thattime.
For me it was a very specialtime in Houston Town.
Meeting 1 was a little bitbefore my time of activism in
the queer community.
That started around 1982.
(24:43):
But there certainly I had beeninvolved in the feminist
movement, so that will be veryexciting to see what comes out
of that part of it as well.
So again, thank you for beingwith us on Queer Voices.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
This is Glenn from Queer Voices.
You're listening to KPFT.
That means you're alreadyparticipating just by listening,
but how about doing more?
Kpft is totally listener-funded, which means it's people like
you who are making donations whosupport this community resource
.
Kpft has no corporate orgovernment strings-attached
(25:19):
funding, which means we're freeto program responsibly but
without outside influence.
Will you participate in KPFTfinancially?
This station needs everyone wholistens to chip in a few
dollars to keep the stationgoing, because that's the way it
works.
Even if you're listening overthe internet on another
continent, you can stillcontribute.
(25:41):
Please become an active memberof the listener community by
making a tax-deductiblecontribution.
Please take a minute to visitkpftorg and click on the red
Donate Now button.
Thank you.
This is KPFT, 90.1 FM Houston,89.5 FM Galveston, 91.9 FM
(26:05):
Huntsville and worldwide on theinternet at kpftorg.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
This is Deborah Moncrief-Bell, and with us today
is Zachary Still.
Zachary actually was one of thevolunteers for Queer Voices I
think it was called Lesbian andGay Voices at that time, but
that was a few decades ago andhis life has taken him from the
Bay Area of California to nowback in Texas and Dallas area,
(26:35):
and his life has gone throughsome changes, but part of those
changes has led him to becomingan author, and his book, between
the Lines, is is it currentlyavailable?
Speaker 3 (26:51):
It's coming available on November 19th Wow, 10 days
from now.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
So around the time this will air, it will be
available and, of course, youcan get it through Amazon.
Is it available anywhere else?
Speaker 3 (27:07):
It'll just be through Amazon, both digital for Kindle
, as well as print, paperbackand hardcover.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
I was fortunate enough to be a beta reader while
you were working on this book,but I have not seen the final
version.
Can you describe the book?
Speaker 3 (27:29):
I would imagine what people would call some crazy
dreams and I was speaking to mytherapist about it where just
the worlds in my dreams aren'tof the world that we currently
exist in.
And that got me thinking likewhat would it be like like to
actually be able to see intothose worlds, and not just see
(27:52):
into them but travel to them aswell?
And that's trying to becreative with the title of the
book as well, between the Lines,but also just have that
reference into being into otherrealities other than our own,
and telling that story throughthe eyes and voice of a young
(28:12):
17-year-old boy coming, comingof age, learning about himself
in lots of ways just hisabilities, as well as coming out
of the closet, his firstrelationship, dealing with his
parents, divorce and moving to anew town certainly you had the
experience of being a young gayman, but a lot of this had to
(28:35):
come whole cloth from yourimagination.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Was there any particular influence that you
had for this type of story?
Speaker 3 (28:46):
I mean we are surrounded just by so many
creative people, so manycreative works out there, film
and books as well as music.
I find a lot of inspirationjust through song, through music
itself, and I love how we canutilize music in just something
that's two or three minutes longto tell a story that way, and I
(29:10):
can't think of any one thing toreally kind of point out and
say that was my inspiration.
But there's just so manysources out there in our waking
moments other than just dreamingas well.
But no, it's just, it reallycame from having these very
vivid dreams and wanting tocreate a story that kind of
(29:33):
portrayed really living in themoment of these various
different worlds that we findourselves in.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
I believe you described the book as young
adult.
Did it retain that?
It did, okay, and they I meanme being an older person reading
young adult.
But I still very much enjoyedthe story.
I felt like I went on a journeyand it was very interesting,
(30:06):
and so I look forward to readingthe final version to see how it
all played out.
But let's talk a little bitabout how you got to the point
of writing this book other thanyour vivid dreams.
You went through somedifficulties, including, I
believe, a job loss, and youalso have struggled with
(30:29):
depression.
So how did?
Because this is not the onlybook you've written and you've
been doing a lot of othercreative things.
So, zachary, what brought youhere?
Speaker 3 (30:43):
I was just thinking about that this morning.
It's been a life of transitionfor not just for me, but I think
a lot of us have beenexperiencing some rough times.
And, yes, I was laid off from ajob that I had been in for
almost 12 years, and that jobgave me money to put a roof over
(31:05):
my head and food in my stomach,but it didn't bring joy.
I didn't have the chance or thetime to really explore anything
outside of work, and so when Iwas laid off, I decided I'm
going to take this time for me.
I received a fairly generousseverance pay from the company
(31:28):
that I had been working with,and it allowed me to not jump
right back into the workforce,and I started creating music,
writing lyrics for songs.
I started painting again,creating digital art, and those
songs are actually what led meto writing is.
I had a lot of fun writingthose songs, but then I wanted
(31:51):
to tell stories through longerformats, and that's how Between
the Lines started.
As well as gosh, I'm up to fiveother books at the moment that
are in various stages ofcompletion, of writing those I
have trouble reading more thanone book at a time, so I can't
(32:11):
imagine trying to write it all.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
I have a couple of books in my head, but I have not
committed them to paper or tocomputer.
Have you had trouble separatingthe various stories that you're
working on?
Speaker 3 (32:29):
No, and that is probably my weird way of dealing
with writer's block.
I would get stuck in a storyand my solution was to start
writing a different story and inthat process at least for me,
it kind of got the creativejuices going again, which then I
(32:50):
would be able to spend thattime thinking about my previous
story and be able to go back toit with a fresher perspective on
where I wanted the story to go.
And in fact, between the linesI was talking with a friend of
mine about it and some of thecomments that you made when you
had read the portion of the bookbefore it was finished.
(33:13):
It has changed so much fromwhat you have read all those
months ago.
But you gave me also somewonderful feedback that I was
able to then take and reimaginethe story.
I took it in a little bit of adifferent direction than the
story that you read and it'salso kind of strange.
(33:33):
Where I look back at that and Ikind of wonder about even with
life itself, is, with everydecision we make, it kind of
branches off into the path wetake versus the path we didn't
take, and that makes me wonder.
It's just a perfect example ofbetween the lines of there was
(33:54):
this story that I startedwriting and these characters
that were in it, and then I wentback and I rewrote it and I
erased some of those charactersfrom existence.
And you talked earlier about,you know, my dealing with
depression and anxiety and it'sjust one of those things I think
about is is just bringing thatinto life, of really trying to
(34:18):
be in the moment, um, and justappreciate what we have and the
path that we're on, but alsomaybe kind of give thought to
those other paths that we didn'ttake and and what might have
happened had we gone down thosedifferent roads in our life.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Do you anticipate a sequel?
Speaker 3 (34:39):
I do.
I decided at the end of it Idid not leave it on a
cliffhanger, but I did leave itopen to the possibility of a
sequel and I would love to goback and explore what happens
next within this world that Icreated for these characters,
(35:00):
and what I love about writing isthe ability to create these
worlds at least for me that Iwould enjoy being in and maybe
even writing a life that isdifferent from my own and in
some ways wish that I had takenor had those opportunities, and
I'd love to go back and explorethat in each of my books, just
(35:23):
imagining what happens next forall these characters that I've
created.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
I can see that and I know I enjoy telling myself
those stories, like I said, ofthe books I've written in my
head.
And then sometimes I'll justhear something and I'll think,
oh, that would be a good line toput in the book.
Or, oh, this character couldlook like that, or this kind of
scenario could happen, and I'llhear a name and I think, oh,
(35:51):
that's a good name, I shouldhave a character have that name
Explain what a beta reader isfor folks that don't know.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
I have learned a lot this year in that world and
again, thank you, debra, foryour help in my book.
Between the Lines, a beta readera little different in our
situation, but typically a betareader will read a trans
manuscript that a writer haswritten and offer feedback just
(36:24):
from a reader's perspective,from the story.
It's not an editor that's goingto go through and, you know,
tell you all of your grammaticalmistakes that you might have
made or spelling mistakes, butreally just having a fresh
perspective, a fresh pair ofeyes, going through your story
and giving you feedback bothgood and bad, constructive as
(36:47):
well as good of maybe areas thatyou could improve upon in the
story.
Or what I loved hearing frombeta readers is parts of the
story that they enjoyed as well,or maybe something that they
enjoyed but felt like it mighthave been missing, something
that could be improved upon, andreally having that opportunity
to take all of that and create abetter story through the
(37:13):
feedback of others, those betareaders.
They are very special peopleand it really helps people that
volunteer who are willing toread what possibly would be or
could be a rough manuscript, arough first draft of a story,
and that, debra, is kind of whatI had given you months ago.
(37:33):
That was one of my firstiterations of a story.
And that, debra, is kind ofwhat I had given you months ago.
That was one of my firstiterations of the story, so it
was fairly rough.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
Tell me about these other books.
There's one that sounded prettyintriguing, I think that is set
in San Francisco.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
I used to live in the Bay Area, san Francisco proper
and as well as parts of the EastBay, for close to 20 years.
After living in Houston I movedback to San Francisco.
So this particular story, Ithink probably fairly current,
is.
I set it in a futuristic SanFrancisco.
It's called Become Human and inthis future there are androids
(38:15):
that have been created forvarious purposes and and one of
the purposes in my story is ascompanions um and through is so,
companions of really of allaspects.
And and I even stress that inthe book, my android protagonist
, his name is Max and he offerskind of like a pseudo therapy
(38:39):
session and he says I'mprogrammed to help in all ways,
in all ways human.
The android finds himselffalling in love with a human and
realizing that he has and canexperience human emotions, and
(39:00):
that's the title is Become Humanis he's discovering this kind
of humanity blossoming withinhim and exploring that angle,
and he falls in love with apolice detective who is
investigating a murder thathappens at the, the very
beginning of the book.
And it was a lot of fun towrite, especially with just my
(39:20):
knowledge of san francisco, inthe neighborhoods, and I felt
myself reminiscing and, and, youknow, missing parts of san
francisco and um, just thatenvironment, but also just
imagining this futuristic worldand what things could be like,
and I know there's a lot ofdifferent movies and books as
well with that kind of explore,this different angle of androids
(39:43):
becoming sentient and even nowpeople are worrying about AI,
artificial intelligence, and inwhat does that mean for humanity
going forward.
So it was a lot of fun to playwith that idea and create this
world in my book, become Human,about what could happen with
(40:04):
humanity and androids andartificial intelligence.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
We just have to remember that humans are the
ones that created AI.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Much like having children human children, you
know.
You give them the gifts andtalents and knowledge and they
take that and turn it intosomething for themselves,
something unique, hopefully,within themselves and I think
that is kind of what Ienvisioned with my book as well
(40:35):
is, yes, humans created thatspark, but we also allow them to
learn from it and kind of taketheir own perspective, unique
perspective on how they see theworld.
However, it is through code,through eyes, through lenses.
However, it is through code,through eyes, through lenses.
(40:57):
I think it's just a fascinatingtopic to explore and there's a
lot of fear that we as humanshave about AI taking jobs from
us.
I worry, I'm still unemployed.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
You've written some songs which I was really
impressed with.
The songs you wrote the lyricsand then you put it into ai to
create the music part.
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (41:23):
that is, yes, um, which for me was also just a
fascinating angle of being ableto take, um, like here's some
words that I wrote and, justwith the speed and precision
that AI can do, add thecomposition, add the music, and
you can tell it different genres, you can specify what type of
(41:48):
musical instruments you want ifyou want it to be a ballad or a
chorus, and it can take all thatand, within a matter of minutes
, create this finished piece,which I have a friend who's a
magician and I've played some ofmy songs for him, and he
himself is like Zachary, you andAI are trying to take my job
away from me.
I think it's something that wehave to learn to.
(42:10):
There's still a piece ofhumanity that is important and
influential.
But you're right, there arethese tools now that we have
access to, and how do we balance, I guess, the humanity, the
human aspect of utilizing thosetools and what gets created from
them?
Speaker 4 (42:31):
A perfect example and it was so touching to read the
story behind it.
But one of the songs is kind ofan ode to your parents.
Can you tell me a little bitmore about that?
Speaker 3 (42:46):
That was fun.
So my mother was from Louisiana, my dad was from Utah and they
met in Louisiana when my dad wasstationed outside of Lake
Charles and I wanted tocreatively reimagine how they
met, since I obviously wasn'tthere, heard through stories of
(43:07):
how they first met and I wantedto also just kind of a nod to my
mother's Cajun heritage, andit's written partly's Cajun
heritage and it's written partlyin Cajun, french and English.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
And it has that Zydeco kind of sound to it.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
It does.
Ai is like hey, I want theselyrics to go to a Zydeco musical
composition and to have it putit all together and be able to
tell that story the way that Iimagined it.
It was a lot of fun to work onand I definitely loved the
result.
Speaker 4 (43:48):
This is Deborah Moncrief-Bell.
We've been talking with ZacharyStill, author of Between the
the lines and other books soonto come, as well as a composer
and a candle maker yes I lovethe creativity that was
unleashed and I'm really proudof you uh, having known you for
(44:09):
many decades and learning moreabout your personal story.
But also it's like I'm readingsomething and I'm like gosh.
My friend wrote this.
This is so great, so I applaudyou, I congratulate you, and
where can people find out moreand maybe hear some of that
(44:29):
music?
Speaker 3 (44:30):
I have my own website .
It's booksbyzacharycom.
You can go there and read aboutthe stories that I've written
that are coming out soon, andI'm on SoundCloud, the platform
soundcloudcom.
That's a little different.
I go by Zach Stahl X-A-K forZach and Stahl S-T-A-H-L, and
(44:53):
you can find all the music thatI've written there on SoundCloud
.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
Well, thanks for being with us on Queer Voices.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
This is Glenn, from all of us at Queer Voices Brian
Levinka, deborah Moncrief-Bell,davis Mendoza and Brett Cullum.
Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, happy Kwanzaa and Season's
Greetings.
We're wishing you a Happy NewYear for 2025.
That's Queer Voices, wednesdaynights at 8 pm here on KPFT and
(45:26):
on our podcast worldwide.
Speaker 7 (45:33):
I'm Tanya Kane-Perry and I'm Marcos Najera With News
Wrap, a summary of some of thenews in or affecting LGBTQ
communities around the world forthe two weeks ending December 7
, 2024.
Gender-affirming health carefor trans patients under the age
of 18 was the issue before theUnited States Supreme Court this
(45:54):
week.
The historic December 4thhearings considered a
constitutional challenge toTennessee's ban on all pediatric
transitioning treatments.
The case is called US vScrimetti, with Tennessee's
Attorney General JonathanScrimetti as the named defendant
.
Challenging the ban on behalfof Tennessee families with trans
(46:17):
children was the ACLU's ChaseStrangio, the first transgender
person to argue a case beforethe nation's highest court.
Speaker 8 (46:25):
This law we believe is unconstitutional.
And perhaps the scariest thingfor all of us is that
Tennessee's arguments wouldapply if Congress tomorrow
banned this care nationally foradolescents.
For adults, they claim thatthere are no protections based
on sex.
For the transgender people likemyself who rely on this medical
(46:49):
care, Attorneys fighting theban argued that it constitutes
discrimination based on sex.
Speaker 7 (46:55):
Tennessee Solicitor General Matthew Rice said that
it is not true.
Speaker 9 (47:00):
Tennessee lawmakers enacted SB1 to protect minors
from risky, unproven medicalinterventions.
The law imposes anacross-the-board rule that
allows the use of drugs andsurgeries for some medical
purposes, but not for others.
The use of drugs and surgeriesfor some medical purposes but
not for others.
Its application turns entirelyon medical purpose, not a
patient's sex.
(47:20):
That is not sex discrimination.
The whole thing is imbued withsex.
Speaker 7 (47:27):
Progressive Justice Elena Kagan begged to differ.
Speaker 6 (47:31):
I mean it's based on sex.
You might have reasons forthinking that it's an
appropriate regulation and thosereasons should be tested and
respect given to them.
But it's a dodge to say thatthis is not based on sex.
It's based on medical purpose,when the medical purpose is
utterly and entirely about sex.
Speaker 7 (47:52):
The treatment of young trans patients with
reversible puberty blockers andhormone therapies can often be
life-saving.
Literally, that's the opinionof virtually every professional
medical and mental healthorganization in the United
States, including the AmericanMedical Association and the
American Psychiatric Association, along with the American
(48:13):
Academy of PediatricsAssociation, along with the
American Academy of Pediatrics.
However, the justices'questions and comments led most
observers to believe that theconservative 6-3 Supreme Court
majority will uphold theTennessee ban.
Justice Brett Kavanaugh andother conservatives cited the
United Kingdom's discredited CASreport, which claims that
(48:36):
pediatric gender-affirminghealth care is too risky.
He also pointed to Sweden'sbackpedaling on the issue as a
reason to say that the jury isstill out on whether the
benefits of puberty blockers andhormone therapy outweigh the
risks.
Speaker 10 (48:50):
If it's evolving like that and changing and
England's pulling back andSweden's pulling back, it
strikes me as pretty heavyyellow light, if not red light,
for this court to come in thenine of us and to
constitutionalize the whole areawhen the rest of the world, or
at least the countries that havebeen at the forefront of this,
(49:13):
are pumping the brakes on thiskind of treatment because of
concerns about the risks.
Speaker 7 (49:18):
Kavanaugh and Justices Amy Coney Barrett and
Neil Gorsuch are all Trumpappointees to the court.
Gorsuch famously authored thesurprising 6-3 Bostock decision
in 2020, the first time a rulinginvolving a transgender person
was handed down by the court.
It found that federal lawsbanning employment bias based on
(49:40):
sex also protect lesbian, gay,bisexual and transgender workers
.
However, gorsuch was notablysilent during this week's
two-hour-plus hearing.
Us Solicitor General ElizabethProloger questioned the
constitutionality of theTennessee law.
She asserted that transgenderpeople should be a protected
class in anti-discriminationlaws.
Speaker 11 (50:02):
If you're approaching this from the
standpoint of saying is this agroup with a distinguishing
characteristic that has nobearing on their ability to
contribute and that needs someprotection from the courts?
I think if any group qualifies,this one does in light of the
current laws and what might comein the future, A ruling in
support of the Tennessee banwould most likely validate
similar bans on pediatricgender-affirming health care.
Speaker 7 (50:24):
They've been enacted by Republican majorities in more
than a dozen other states andsome of them continue to be
challenged in lower courts.
A decision by the Supreme Courtis not expected until next June
.
Speaker 12 (50:38):
The justice system in Russia can move swiftly with
its so-called part-of-measuresto combat LGBT propaganda.
That's how the officialstate-run TASS news agency
described the November 30thraids on three queer-welcoming
night spots in Moscow.
Described the November 30thraids on three queer-welcoming
(50:58):
night spots in Moscow.
Seven patrons of ARMA, Infernoand Mono were soon thereafter
convicted of petty hooliganismand disrupting public order.
According to the press servicefor the Lefortova District Court
in Moscow, the defendants werecharged with what was called an
administrative offense, whichwas expressed in obvious
disrespect for society,accompanied by obscene language
(51:19):
in a public place.
Raids like this have been goingon sporadically since President
Vladimir Putin's regimedeclared the non-existent
international public LGBTmovement to be extremist in 2023
.
Young men netted in the raid onthe Mono Night Spot were handed
military draft notices.
Per reports and local newsoutlet Vyotska, One of the
(51:43):
arrested patrons is the directorof a travel agency for gay men.
According to the Moscow Times,he was also detained for
organizing tours for members ofthe LGBT community.
Speaker 7 (51:55):
Walmart is abandoning its policies promoting
diversity, equity and inclusion,or DEI.
The largest retailer in theUnited States will no longer
participate in the corporateequity index of the national
queer advocacy group, the HumanRights Campaign.
It's the latest major USmultinational company to jump
the DEI ship.
(52:16):
Walmart has additionallypromised to be sure that
inappropriate sexual and ortransgender products are not
marketed to children.
According to USA Today, itemslike chest binders for trans
youth will disappear from thewebsite.
The term Latinx and anyvestiges of what critics
(52:38):
consider part of the woke agendawill be erased from corporate
communications.
Walmart's 1.6 million employeesat nearly 5,000 locations in
the US alone will no longerreceive racial equity training.
Far-right social mediainfluencer Robbie Starbuck is
taking credit for this latestattack on corporate DEI programs
(52:59):
.
He's convinced a growing listof multinationals to abandon
their diversity effortsCompanies like Tractor Supply,
john Deere, lowe's Ford,harley-davidson and Jack Daniels
.
Starbuck's victory post calledWalmart's capitulation the
biggest win yet for our movementto end wokeness in corporate
America.
Finally, I've got a meeting inthe ladies' room.
(53:25):
I don't need this.
I'll be back real soon.
That's what I did for being inthe ladies' room.
Speaker 12 (53:32):
More than two dozen trans activists and cisgender
allies failed to disperse whiledancing to the strains of
climaxes.
Meeting in the ladies room in aUS Capitol bathroom close to
the offices of House SpeakerMike Johnson, they were
protesting Republican efforts inthe lower chamber to force
transgender DemocraticCongressperson-elect Sarah
McBride of Delaware to use malebathrooms and changing rooms.
(53:55):
Trans whistleblower ChelseaManning was among those arrested
for what they called thisweek's act of joyful resistance.
Speaker Johnson has backedSouth Carolina congressperson
Nancy Mace's effort to blockadethe House's first trans member.
Banners displayed by supportersin the hallway declared Flush
bathroom bigotry and Congress.
(54:17):
Stop on our rights.
It's a different picture in theRepublican-dominated Montana
State House, where a bid toforce a trans woman to use male
facilities failed.
A House committee rejected aproposal against outspoken
transgender state lawmaker, zoeZephyr in a narrow vote of 10
yes and 12 no.
(54:38):
Zephyr celebrated the win in asocial media post that read I'm
happy to see that this proposedban failed and I'm grateful for
my colleagues, particularly myRepublican colleagues, who
recognize this as a distractionfrom the work we were elected to
do.
Speaker 7 (54:56):
That's News Wrap, global, queer news with attitude
for the two weeks endingDecember 7th 2024.
Follow the news in your areaand around the world.
An informed community is astrong community.
Speaker 12 (55:08):
News Wrap is written by Greg Gordon and Lucia
Chappelle, produced by BrianDeShazer and brought to you by
you.
Thank you.
Speaker 7 (55:16):
Help keep us in ears around the world at
thiswayoutorg, where you canalso read the text of this
newscast and much more.
For this Way Out, I'm TonyaKane-Perry.
Stay healthy.
Speaker 12 (55:26):
And I'm Marcos Najera, stay safe.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
Martha, what'd that fella on the wireless?
Just say Something about them,interwebs.
You don't have to ask Martha.
We've got all the names, datesand webpage links for people,
events and anything elsementioned in the show right on
our own website.
It's QueerVoicesorg.
We even link to past shows andother tidbits of information, so
(55:58):
check it out, queervoicesorg.
Besides, martha is a cat.
She doesn't know anything aboutwebsites.
This has been Queer Voices,heard on KPFT Houston and as a
(56:26):
podcast available from severalpodcasting sources.
Check our webpageQueerVoicesorg for more
information.
Queer Voices executive produceris Brian Levinka, deborah
Moncrief-Bell is co-producer,brett Cullum and David
Mendoza-Druzman are contributors, and Brett is also our
webmaster.
The News Wrap segment is partof another podcast called this
(56:49):
Way Out, which is produced inLos Angeles.
Speaker 13 (56:53):
Some of the material in this program has been edited
to improve clarity and runtime.
This program does not endorseany political views or animal
species.
Views, opinions andendorsements are those of the
participants and theorganizations they represent.
In case of death, pleasediscontinue use and discard
remaining products.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
For Queer Voices.
I'm Glenn Holt, Thank you.
Hello everybody, this is Queer Voices, a podcast
version of a broadcast radioshow that's been on the air in
Houston, texas, for severaldecades.
This week, debra Moncrief-Bellhas a conversation with Nick
Vaughn and his husband about anew art exhibit they will be
creating in Houston.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
We're going to be making a monumental drawing that
is going to be surrounding theentire space, and on our website
we have some images of whatthose drawings have looked like.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
In the past, we had an exhibition at the Blaffer Art
Museum of these drawings, andDebra has a conversation with
Zachary Steele about his newbook, which was just released.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I started creating music, writing lyrics for songs,
I started painting, againcreating digital art, and those
songs are actually what led meto writing is.
I had a lot of fun writingthose songs, but then I wanted
to tell stories through longerformats and that's how Between
the Lines started.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Queer Voices starts now.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
This is Deborah Moncrief-Bell and I'm talking
with husbands and artists, nickVaughn and Jake Margolin,
creating an ongoing series of 50installations made in response
to a little-known pre-Stonewallqueer histories from each state.
(01:31):
This multi-decade endeavordraws from recent groundbreaking
academic work, the artists' ownarchival research and
significant time spent learningfrom and collaborating with
local lgbtq community members.
And one of the things well,they were kind of going around
(01:52):
the united states and somehowended up coming to houston and
falling in love with it and wereintrigued by some of the
stories, and one of those eventswas town meeting, one which
took place in 1978.
They're doing a whole lot ofthings and they were on queer
(02:13):
voices a number of years ago,but they're back to talk a
little bit about town meetingone and hopefully connecting
with more people who may haveactually been there.
Tell me, in particular, howthis part of the project started
.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
We are putting on an exhibition at Art League Houston
in the spring.
That's going to have sort oftwo components.
It's going to have a visual artinstallation that is based on
archival research and someoriginal photographs we're
taking that are related to TownMeeting 1.
And then it's going to have atwo-day symposium in which we're
(02:53):
going to be getting together asmany people as we can who are
stakeholders, who are passionatein this history, and start
dreaming up what we all might doto commemorate the 50th
anniversary of town meeting,which is coming up in 2028.
And how it started was probablyin our first meeting with Ray
(03:14):
Hill, which, as you mentioned,was 10 years ago when we moved
to Houston.
We thought for six months to dosome research and got to meet
Ray at what used to be Mary's,naturally, of course.
Speaker 5 (03:26):
Now Blacksmith Coffee , and I think folks who know Ray
probably know this very well.
But the first thing that hesaid when he sat down with us
was there are people who aregoing to disagree with the way
that I tell stories, but I'm oneof the last ones standing so I
get to tell them however I want.
And one of those stories thatRay managed to embellish a
little bit was about TownMeeting 1.
(03:48):
And he told us all about howthe entire queer community had
descended on the Astrodome andhad this astonishing meeting in
the Astrodome and we were justwe were blown away.
He sort of talked about thedegree to which Town Meeting 1
had created the queerinfrastructure of Houston you
know, whether that's theMontrose Center or the Montrose
Clinic which became LegacyHealth and we sort of filed it
(04:11):
away as something that we wantedto be working on at some point.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
And then I think it was actually at his funeral that
it kind of re-entered ourimagination because there had
been so many projects in theinterim and as we started to
dive into it and learned, ofcourse, very quickly that it had
happened at the Astro Arena, westarted to understand the
incredible impact of this event,and so many people who we
(04:35):
talked to, who aren't deeplyinvolved in queer activism in
Houston, had never heard of thisevent, and as they started to
learn about it, they realized mygosh, this is like a seminal,
pivotal thing that we should allreally be knowing and
celebrating.
And so we decided well, we havea platform as artists, we can
put together exhibitions andwe're pretty good at getting
(04:58):
people together, uh, to talkabout things.
Why don't we put together anexhibition and a symposium?
And that way, when all of thesedifferent organizations and
people start planning whateverthey are going to plan for a
50th anniversary for townmeeting, we can start
cross-pollinating ideas.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
And our particular agenda is we can get artists
involved in all of this, becausewe think that, as artists, we
have a real like nimbleness ofthought, of perspective and a
lot of really diverse talentsthat our artistic community can
bring to these efforts andparticularly having, just you
(05:38):
know, profoundly lost anelection on a national scale to
memes and social media, and itfeels like in this moment
there's something missing in theactivist community or that we
can help fill in from a creativeperspective that artists may be
uniquely able to do and of themany like.
(06:01):
Obviously we know, houston hasan astonishing activist history
and has an astonishing artistichistory and for the most part in
our experience it has felt likethose worlds are often siloed
from each other, and so part ofwhat we're hoping to do over the
next four years and, you know,not just with a goal towards
(06:22):
four years, but from now throughthe next four years and then
hopefully moving forward isbring those communities together
and get some of thatcommunication happening.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
What has been the most intriguing thing that
you've learned about townmeeting so far?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
There are so many intriguing things about town
meeting.
We got to look through some ofthe original documents around it
that are at the University ofHouston Special Collections, and
one of the things that reallystuck out to me were the number
of resolutions and proposalsthat you could see then play out
(06:58):
through history, and some ofthose were things like a
resolution to make a communitycenter that would be able to
house the entire community, andthen there were other ones that
we want to know more about.
There was a resolution in thereto change how city council
members were elected at thatpoint all of them and that there
(07:22):
was a resolution in there todrive towards making city
council members that representedindividual districts, and we
want to learn more about howmuch was that part of making
that change?
Speaker 5 (07:45):
I think it was also just as we got in.
I remember when we first heardabout it, being utterly
mystified as to how so much hadbeen produced from a one-day
meeting of 4,000 people, and aswe started to go into the
archives at U of H, beginning torealize what the structure was
that had led up to it and thelistening sessions and meetings
that had happened before.
That culminated in the creationof the workbook that in some
ways, the meeting itself wasjust a sort of community
(08:05):
approval or lack thereof ofresolutions that had been made
in these earlier meetings, andit started to open up for us
different models as we, as weare pulling the community
together, as we're beginning tothink about what structure this
might take and how we may getpeople to organize together,
what models might be mosteffective, where open space
(08:27):
meetings play a role, where LoisWeaver's long table discussions
, where that form fits in, whereconsensus-driven governance
fits in, and so it's just gottenus thinking a lot about form
and the way to get really broadcross-community representation
in these discussions.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
The community has grown a lot and it has become
much more diverse.
It should be very interestingto see what can come out of that
, to be more inclusive and tomake sure that all the diversity
of the community is included.
There was a town meeting toothat took place in the 90s, and
(09:12):
there were some problematicthings about that.
Again, it was over at what wascalled the Astro Hall.
I did chair a platform meetingalong with Linda Morales.
One of the organizersapparently was not quite on the
up and up, and so that event haskind of just dwindled away in
(09:36):
history.
I don't know anything that cameout of it, anything positive or
good.
But now there's talk about apossible town meeting three,
which I think would be nice totake place after your symposium.
So that's something for peopleto put their thinking hats on
(10:01):
and see what they think shouldbe done with that.
The original group, the coreexecutive committee, consisted
of four people.
Rahil was one of them, charlesLaw, steve Shifflett and LaDonna
Leak.
Three of those people are nolonger with us.
(10:23):
We believe that LaDonna Leak isstill around and possibly in
Oregon, but we haven't found away to contact her.
So if anyone knows LaDonna andcould put her in touch with Nick
and Jake or give theminformation on how to reach her.
(10:44):
That would be really great,because that would be a
wonderful component to makingall of this come together as it
should.
We have been searching out, Iwas asked to assist and I've
been able to connect you toseveral people that we know were
there and had an impact on theproceedings.
(11:05):
What else are you looking for?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Well, exactly the kind of connections that you've
been wonderfully making for usis the main thing that we're
looking for right now, and so ifanybody who's listening was at
Town Meeting 1 or was reallyactive in any of the many
contemporaneous movements thatwere happening in the late 70s
in Houston, we would love to getin touch with you, we would
(11:31):
love to hear your experiencesand, of course, we would love to
invite you to this symposium inthe spring, which will be on
June 7th and 8th at Art LeagueHouston.
We've put a link on our websitewhere anybody can reach out to
us.
Our website isnickandjakestudiocom and that's
(11:51):
Nick and Jake Studio, allspelled out, and on there we've
got a link where you can justreach out to us and we will
reach right back out to you.
The way that we've made all ofour work over the last decade of
living in Houston has been acombination of doing archival
research, which is incrediblyfulfilling, but probably more
importantly, from listening topeople who have direct
(12:13):
experience with things and withevents.
For this symposium, we'replanning on putting together
several panel discussions andsome long table story sharing
discussions, and then to alsohave some breakout sessions in
which people can really sharedreams and ideas, to start
really thinking about what arethe challenges that face our
(12:34):
community, which, as youmentioned, is incredibly large
and very diverse, and what arethe different ways that we can
address these needs.
We know that, as artists, wehave been often inclined towards
making exhibitions, and it mayvery well be that we will come
out of the symposium feelinglike, oh, what we really want to
(12:54):
do is make an exhibition that'sabout this history.
Or it may be that we decidethat what's needed is a book, or
it may be that people willdecide that what's needed is
another gathering, or todovetail with what's happening
with the planning for townmeeting three, and we just hope
that all of these different,diverse perspectives are present
(13:16):
and that out of it comes awhole lot of cross-pollinated
ideas.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
In an ideal world, all of those happen.
It's not an either-or approach,it's a yes.
And every last one of thesethings that there's exhibitions,
there's publications, there'sgatherings, there's town meeting
(13:43):
, three and that we can reallymount a community response in
force to this moment.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Community response and force to this moment yes,
that would be wonderful for itto generate more activism and
more institutions or strengthensome of the current existing
institutions.
Your backgrounds are in theater, so how did you go from that,
and what was your history intheater to doing essentially
(14:09):
history research and making itart?
Speaker 5 (14:13):
We met through a devised theater company called
the Team, which is aBrooklyn-based theater company
that still exists and we stillwork with, and when I say
devised theater, what I mean isthat all of the work we did was
written by and sort of createdby the company and everyone in
(14:34):
the room.
So my background was a set andcostume designer, jake's was a
performer and writer, andeverybody writes the show
together and everybody conceivesof the show together and
everybody shapes the showtogether, and so in some ways it
led very naturally into thekind of work that we wanted to
be making.
When it felt like, just as jakeand I, as our relationship
(14:55):
started and we started dreamingup other work, it suddenly just
felt like it didn't fit in atheater, that it wasn't the kind
of work that somebody might sitdown and watch for 90 minutes,
but was something a little moreflexible in the way that viewers
would experience it.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
I remember very clearly being in Arad, romania,
with the great choreographerYoshiko Chuma, who we were
collaborating with, and we werewalking down the street and we
saw an empty building that wethought would be the perfect
place in our dream world tohouse some of the ideas that we
had been talking about.
And then we realized, oh,that's a gallery.
(15:31):
We're talking about galleries,we're talking about a gallery or
museum space.
And when we returned to theStates, we received a really
wonderful residency from anorganization called the HERE Art
Center in New York.
That gave us a three-yearresidency with an incredible
cohort of interdisciplinaryartists and really let us make
(15:52):
the shift into making visual art, making installation art,
making video art.
And in doing that project, wegot to interview a lot of
community elders, communitymembers and activists and
started to realize like, oh,this is actually, this feels
like our calling.
(16:12):
And then when we moved toHouston at the beginning of what
we call our 50 states project,in which we're making
installations in response topretty old queer histories from
each state, we'd moved hereafter completing one of these
projects in Wyoming and wethought we'd be here for about
six months and we absolutelyfell in love with Houston, with
(16:35):
the queer world in Houston, withthe activist world and with the
incredibly rich art world inHouston, and realized oh, this
is where we want to be, theseare the artists we want to be
around, these are the activistswe want to be around.
And now, 10 years later, we'rehere and we've completed six
more projects in that 50 Statesproject.
(16:56):
We've completed work inColorado, in Arkansas, in
Oklahoma, louisiana and in Texas, and, in particular, our Texas
project has branched out into anumber of other projects because
we keep on learning aboutincredible things that we just
feel absolutely compelled tomake work about.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
And when we first showed up, I think we were sort
of undercover theater artists.
We came to town and weintroduced ourselves as visual
artists and we got a studio andwe were making visual art and we
still did some theater, but itwas mostly in New York or out of
town.
And I think most of that wasfor just the internal shift in
(17:38):
us and the way that we wereapproaching our practice and the
way we were thinking about thethings we were making.
But as we got sort of moreconfident in what we were doing,
I think we've come to realizethat essentially everything we
make, whether they're drawingsor video works or lectures or
gatherings are ultimately attheir base all narrative and in
(18:00):
a way that we're still just,we're making theater, just not
in theatrical spaces Should.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I share the story about Sheila Pepe.
Oh sure, so there's anincredible artist named Sheila
Pepe who was doing an exhibitionat Diverse Works at the same
time that we had an exhibitionat Art League in 2015, I believe
and that was an exhibitionabout our Wyoming piece, for
which we had retraced this 1843expedition of 100 same-sex
(18:29):
attracted men from St Louis to aremote lake in Wyoming in the
Wind River Mountains where theythrew a six-week-long bacchanal
with wagons of liquor, a trunkof Renaissance costumes, and we
retraced their journey and alongthe way we stopped every 60
miles or so and took a soilsample and spread that over a
(18:53):
wax panel with a sort of queeredcowboy painting underneath, and
we ran over that with our truck, leaving an imprint of our
attire, sort of, as we wereretracing this pilgrimage and
Sheila Pepe came by ourexhibition and we were very
excited for her to see our workand she said after she saw it,
she was like you know, she saidcomplimentary things and then
(19:15):
she said you know, if the two ofyou stuck with wax for a really
long time, you'd get reallygood at it.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Is that a left-handed compliment?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Exactly and we were just like immediately, like oh
gosh.
But then we realized, as wewere thinking about it, that wax
was the right medium for thatparticular story.
Other stories have requiredother mediums, but that the
medium that we have becomeexpert at, the one that we've
stuck with for now 15 years, isthe medium For 25 years.
(19:43):
For 25 years, years, that'strue is narrative and we really
think of narrative as a mediumthat we're uh, that we're
continuing to explore andexcavate I think if a play came
out of this, it would just betremendous.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
I love that idea.
I mean just the idea of thesemen out on the prairie in
Renaissance costumes and thatthat happened.
It blows your mind and I havefound, the more history I learn,
the more I realize there mustbe out there and we just don't
(20:20):
know it.
And that's why the work thatyou're doing, work that they're
doing at ufh, the work that jddoyle does, is so important and
essential to our community sothat it documents and preserves
that history, knowing that we'rea history, that we have a
(20:40):
history, because I always say weare a people, we have our own
culture and we have things thatmatter, that contribute to the
larger society and needs to behonored and recognized and
appreciated.
So, jake and Nick, what issomething I didn't ask you about
(21:03):
that you want to make sure thatpeople know about?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
One thing that we haven't talked about a little
bit is the visual art exhibitionside of what we're going to be
doing for Town Meeting.
We're calling the exhibitionTown Meeting 1978 to 2028.
And for that we're going to bemaking a monumental drawing that
is going to be surrounding theentire space, and on our website
(21:29):
we have some images of whatthose drawings have looked like.
In the past we had an exhibitionat the Blaffer Art Museum of
these drawings.
But what we do to make them iswe take images, photographs
we've taken images from archivalsources and we make absolutely
mammoth stencils out of them andthen stencil loose charcoal
(21:50):
powder onto paper and then wevery carefully take the stencils
away and then we use an aircompressor to blow away all of
the charcoal.
And that motion of blowing awaythe charcoal, that force of the
wind is what actually does themark making, is what does the
drawing into the paper andembeds the charcoal into the
(22:11):
tooth of the paper, and we windup with this sort of ghost image
that holds all of theambiguities, all of the
exuberance, but also all of thesense of loss that comes with
these histories.
And so we're in the middle ofdesigning that drawing right now
we think it's going to wind upbeing 140 feet long.
Speaker 5 (22:31):
The other main part of that installation is actually
being created sort of for thepurpose of the symposium, and it
will be a large kind of modulartable that's in the center of
the space, so almost aconference table.
But it will be designed basedon the still existing pieces of
the Mary's Naturally bar topsthat are in the Gulf Coast
(22:54):
Archive and Museum collection.
And so we're going to do a verydetailed survey of those bar
tops and build handmade woodreplicas of each of those bar
tops and turn them into amodular conference table for the
convening on June 7th and 8th.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Well, it's really something to look forward to and
comes along at a time where weneed positivity and to celebrate
our community.
So I'm very excited.
I love meeting the two of you.
You're charming and you're justthe creativity, just you can
(23:30):
just crack holes around the twoof you.
So I expect something veryspecial and I know that the
Houston community will cometogether and support this and
want to be part of it.
Thank you, nick Vaughn and JakeMargolin, for being with us on
(23:53):
Queer Voices and again give thatwebsite.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Well, thank you so much for the opportunity to talk
about Town Meeting 1 and talkabout this exhibition.
It's an honor to be on QueerVoices and our website is
nickandjakestudiocom, and thereyou can join our mailing list or
you can reach out to us if youhave any wonderful stories about
Town Meeting 1 or the othercontemporaneous movements that
(24:19):
were happening in Houston at thetime.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
Yeah, I meant to touch on that about the other
movements such as the feministmovement and the other things
that were happening around thattime.
For me it was a very specialtime in Houston Town.
Meeting 1 was a little bitbefore my time of activism in
the queer community.
That started around 1982.
(24:43):
But there certainly I had beeninvolved in the feminist
movement, so that will be veryexciting to see what comes out
of that part of it as well.
So again, thank you for beingwith us on Queer Voices.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
This is Glenn from Queer Voices.
You're listening to KPFT.
That means you're alreadyparticipating just by listening,
but how about doing more?
Kpft is totally listener-funded, which means it's people like
you who are making donations whosupport this community resource
.
Kpft has no corporate orgovernment strings-attached
(25:19):
funding, which means we're freeto program responsibly but
without outside influence.
Will you participate in KPFTfinancially?
This station needs everyone wholistens to chip in a few
dollars to keep the stationgoing, because that's the way it
works.
Even if you're listening overthe internet on another
continent, you can stillcontribute.
(25:41):
Please become an active memberof the listener community by
making a tax-deductiblecontribution.
Please take a minute to visitkpftorg and click on the red
Donate Now button.
Thank you.
This is KPFT, 90.1 FM Houston,89.5 FM Galveston, 91.9 FM
(26:05):
Huntsville and worldwide on theinternet at kpftorg.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
This is Deborah Moncrief-Bell, and with us today
is Zachary Still.
Zachary actually was one of thevolunteers for Queer Voices I
think it was called Lesbian andGay Voices at that time, but
that was a few decades ago andhis life has taken him from the
Bay Area of California to nowback in Texas and Dallas area,
(26:35):
and his life has gone throughsome changes, but part of those
changes has led him to becomingan author, and his book, between
the Lines, is is it currentlyavailable?
Speaker 3 (26:51):
It's coming available on November 19th Wow, 10 days
from now.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
So around the time this will air, it will be
available and, of course, youcan get it through Amazon.
Is it available anywhere else?
Speaker 3 (27:07):
It'll just be through Amazon, both digital for Kindle
, as well as print, paperbackand hardcover.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
I was fortunate enough to be a beta reader while
you were working on this book,but I have not seen the final
version.
Can you describe the book?
Speaker 3 (27:29):
I would imagine what people would call some crazy
dreams and I was speaking to mytherapist about it where just
the worlds in my dreams aren'tof the world that we currently
exist in.
And that got me thinking likewhat would it be like like to
actually be able to see intothose worlds, and not just see
(27:52):
into them but travel to them aswell?
And that's trying to becreative with the title of the
book as well, between the Lines,but also just have that
reference into being into otherrealities other than our own,
and telling that story throughthe eyes and voice of a young
(28:12):
17-year-old boy coming, comingof age, learning about himself
in lots of ways just hisabilities, as well as coming out
of the closet, his firstrelationship, dealing with his
parents, divorce and moving to anew town certainly you had the
experience of being a young gayman, but a lot of this had to
(28:35):
come whole cloth from yourimagination.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Was there any particular influence that you
had for this type of story?
Speaker 3 (28:46):
I mean we are surrounded just by so many
creative people, so manycreative works out there, film
and books as well as music.
I find a lot of inspirationjust through song, through music
itself, and I love how we canutilize music in just something
that's two or three minutes longto tell a story that way, and I
(29:10):
can't think of any one thing toreally kind of point out and
say that was my inspiration.
But there's just so manysources out there in our waking
moments other than just dreamingas well.
But no, it's just, it reallycame from having these very
vivid dreams and wanting tocreate a story that kind of
(29:33):
portrayed really living in themoment of these various
different worlds that we findourselves in.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
I believe you described the book as young
adult.
Did it retain that?
It did, okay, and they I meanme being an older person reading
young adult.
But I still very much enjoyedthe story.
I felt like I went on a journeyand it was very interesting,
(30:06):
and so I look forward to readingthe final version to see how it
all played out.
But let's talk a little bitabout how you got to the point
of writing this book other thanyour vivid dreams.
You went through somedifficulties, including, I
believe, a job loss, and youalso have struggled with
(30:29):
depression.
So how did?
Because this is not the onlybook you've written and you've
been doing a lot of othercreative things.
So, zachary, what brought youhere?
Speaker 3 (30:43):
I was just thinking about that this morning.
It's been a life of transitionfor not just for me, but I think
a lot of us have beenexperiencing some rough times.
And, yes, I was laid off from ajob that I had been in for
almost 12 years, and that jobgave me money to put a roof over
(31:05):
my head and food in my stomach,but it didn't bring joy.
I didn't have the chance or thetime to really explore anything
outside of work, and so when Iwas laid off, I decided I'm
going to take this time for me.
I received a fairly generousseverance pay from the company
(31:28):
that I had been working with,and it allowed me to not jump
right back into the workforce,and I started creating music,
writing lyrics for songs.
I started painting again,creating digital art, and those
songs are actually what led meto writing is.
I had a lot of fun writingthose songs, but then I wanted
(31:51):
to tell stories through longerformats, and that's how Between
the Lines started.
As well as gosh, I'm up to fiveother books at the moment that
are in various stages ofcompletion, of writing those I
have trouble reading more thanone book at a time, so I can't
(32:11):
imagine trying to write it all.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
I have a couple of books in my head, but I have not
committed them to paper or tocomputer.
Have you had trouble separatingthe various stories that you're
working on?
Speaker 3 (32:29):
No, and that is probably my weird way of dealing
with writer's block.
I would get stuck in a storyand my solution was to start
writing a different story and inthat process at least for me,
it kind of got the creativejuices going again, which then I
(32:50):
would be able to spend thattime thinking about my previous
story and be able to go back toit with a fresher perspective on
where I wanted the story to go.
And in fact, between the linesI was talking with a friend of
mine about it and some of thecomments that you made when you
had read the portion of the bookbefore it was finished.
(33:13):
It has changed so much fromwhat you have read all those
months ago.
But you gave me also somewonderful feedback that I was
able to then take and reimaginethe story.
I took it in a little bit of adifferent direction than the
story that you read and it'salso kind of strange.
(33:33):
Where I look back at that and Ikind of wonder about even with
life itself, is, with everydecision we make, it kind of
branches off into the path wetake versus the path we didn't
take, and that makes me wonder.
It's just a perfect example ofbetween the lines of there was
(33:54):
this story that I startedwriting and these characters
that were in it, and then I wentback and I rewrote it and I
erased some of those charactersfrom existence.
And you talked earlier about,you know, my dealing with
depression and anxiety and it'sjust one of those things I think
about is is just bringing thatinto life, of really trying to
(34:18):
be in the moment, um, and justappreciate what we have and the
path that we're on, but alsomaybe kind of give thought to
those other paths that we didn'ttake and and what might have
happened had we gone down thosedifferent roads in our life.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Do you anticipate a sequel?
Speaker 3 (34:39):
I do.
I decided at the end of it Idid not leave it on a
cliffhanger, but I did leave itopen to the possibility of a
sequel and I would love to goback and explore what happens
next within this world that Icreated for these characters,
(35:00):
and what I love about writing isthe ability to create these
worlds at least for me that Iwould enjoy being in and maybe
even writing a life that isdifferent from my own and in
some ways wish that I had takenor had those opportunities, and
I'd love to go back and explorethat in each of my books, just
(35:23):
imagining what happens next forall these characters that I've
created.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
I can see that and I know I enjoy telling myself
those stories, like I said, ofthe books I've written in my
head.
And then sometimes I'll justhear something and I'll think,
oh, that would be a good line toput in the book.
Or, oh, this character couldlook like that, or this kind of
scenario could happen, and I'llhear a name and I think, oh,
(35:51):
that's a good name, I shouldhave a character have that name
Explain what a beta reader isfor folks that don't know.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
I have learned a lot this year in that world and
again, thank you, debra, foryour help in my book.
Between the Lines, a beta readera little different in our
situation, but typically a betareader will read a trans
manuscript that a writer haswritten and offer feedback just
(36:24):
from a reader's perspective,from the story.
It's not an editor that's goingto go through and, you know,
tell you all of your grammaticalmistakes that you might have
made or spelling mistakes, butreally just having a fresh
perspective, a fresh pair ofeyes, going through your story
and giving you feedback bothgood and bad, constructive as
(36:47):
well as good of maybe areas thatyou could improve upon in the
story.
Or what I loved hearing frombeta readers is parts of the
story that they enjoyed as well,or maybe something that they
enjoyed but felt like it mighthave been missing, something
that could be improved upon, andreally having that opportunity
to take all of that and create abetter story through the
(37:13):
feedback of others, those betareaders.
They are very special peopleand it really helps people that
volunteer who are willing toread what possibly would be or
could be a rough manuscript, arough first draft of a story,
and that, debra, is kind of whatI had given you months ago.
(37:33):
That was one of my firstiterations of a story.
And that, debra, is kind ofwhat I had given you months ago.
That was one of my firstiterations of the story, so it
was fairly rough.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
Tell me about these other books.
There's one that sounded prettyintriguing, I think that is set
in San Francisco.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
I used to live in the Bay Area, san Francisco proper
and as well as parts of the EastBay, for close to 20 years.
After living in Houston I movedback to San Francisco.
So this particular story, Ithink probably fairly current,
is.
I set it in a futuristic SanFrancisco.
It's called Become Human and inthis future there are androids
(38:15):
that have been created forvarious purposes and and one of
the purposes in my story is ascompanions um and through is so,
companions of really of allaspects.
And and I even stress that inthe book, my android protagonist
, his name is Max and he offerskind of like a pseudo therapy
(38:39):
session and he says I'mprogrammed to help in all ways,
in all ways human.
The android finds himselffalling in love with a human and
realizing that he has and canexperience human emotions, and
(39:00):
that's the title is Become Humanis he's discovering this kind
of humanity blossoming withinhim and exploring that angle,
and he falls in love with apolice detective who is
investigating a murder thathappens at the, the very
beginning of the book.
And it was a lot of fun towrite, especially with just my
(39:20):
knowledge of san francisco, inthe neighborhoods, and I felt
myself reminiscing and, and, youknow, missing parts of san
francisco and um, just thatenvironment, but also just
imagining this futuristic worldand what things could be like,
and I know there's a lot ofdifferent movies and books as
well with that kind of explore,this different angle of androids
(39:43):
becoming sentient and even nowpeople are worrying about AI,
artificial intelligence, and inwhat does that mean for humanity
going forward.
So it was a lot of fun to playwith that idea and create this
world in my book, become Human,about what could happen with
(40:04):
humanity and androids andartificial intelligence.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
We just have to remember that humans are the
ones that created AI.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Much like having children human children, you
know.
You give them the gifts andtalents and knowledge and they
take that and turn it intosomething for themselves,
something unique, hopefully,within themselves and I think
that is kind of what Ienvisioned with my book as well
(40:35):
is, yes, humans created thatspark, but we also allow them to
learn from it and kind of taketheir own perspective, unique
perspective on how they see theworld.
However, it is through code,through eyes, through lenses.
However, it is through code,through eyes, through lenses.
(40:57):
I think it's just a fascinatingtopic to explore and there's a
lot of fear that we as humanshave about AI taking jobs from
us.
I worry, I'm still unemployed.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
You've written some songs which I was really
impressed with.
The songs you wrote the lyricsand then you put it into ai to
create the music part.
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (41:23):
that is, yes, um, which for me was also just a
fascinating angle of being ableto take, um, like here's some
words that I wrote and, justwith the speed and precision
that AI can do, add thecomposition, add the music, and
you can tell it different genres, you can specify what type of
(41:48):
musical instruments you want ifyou want it to be a ballad or a
chorus, and it can take all thatand, within a matter of minutes
, create this finished piece,which I have a friend who's a
magician and I've played some ofmy songs for him, and he
himself is like Zachary, you andAI are trying to take my job
away from me.
I think it's something that wehave to learn to.
(42:10):
There's still a piece ofhumanity that is important and
influential.
But you're right, there arethese tools now that we have
access to, and how do we balance, I guess, the humanity, the
human aspect of utilizing thosetools and what gets created from
them?
Speaker 4 (42:31):
A perfect example and it was so touching to read the
story behind it.
But one of the songs is kind ofan ode to your parents.
Can you tell me a little bitmore about that?
Speaker 3 (42:46):
That was fun.
So my mother was from Louisiana, my dad was from Utah and they
met in Louisiana when my dad wasstationed outside of Lake
Charles and I wanted tocreatively reimagine how they
met, since I obviously wasn'tthere, heard through stories of
(43:07):
how they first met and I wantedto also just kind of a nod to my
mother's Cajun heritage, andit's written partly's Cajun
heritage and it's written partlyin Cajun, french and English.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
And it has that Zydeco kind of sound to it.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
It does.
Ai is like hey, I want theselyrics to go to a Zydeco musical
composition and to have it putit all together and be able to
tell that story the way that Iimagined it.
It was a lot of fun to work onand I definitely loved the
result.
Speaker 4 (43:48):
This is Deborah Moncrief-Bell.
We've been talking with ZacharyStill, author of Between the
the lines and other books soonto come, as well as a composer
and a candle maker yes I lovethe creativity that was
unleashed and I'm really proudof you uh, having known you for
(44:09):
many decades and learning moreabout your personal story.
But also it's like I'm readingsomething and I'm like gosh.
My friend wrote this.
This is so great, so I applaudyou, I congratulate you, and
where can people find out moreand maybe hear some of that
(44:29):
music?
Speaker 3 (44:30):
I have my own website .
It's booksbyzacharycom.
You can go there and read aboutthe stories that I've written
that are coming out soon, andI'm on SoundCloud, the platform
soundcloudcom.
That's a little different.
I go by Zach Stahl X-A-K forZach and Stahl S-T-A-H-L, and
(44:53):
you can find all the music thatI've written there on SoundCloud
.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
Well, thanks for being with us on Queer Voices.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
This is Glenn, from all of us at Queer Voices Brian
Levinka, deborah Moncrief-Bell,davis Mendoza and Brett Cullum.
Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, happy Kwanzaa and Season's
Greetings.
We're wishing you a Happy NewYear for 2025.
That's Queer Voices, wednesdaynights at 8 pm here on KPFT and
(45:26):
on our podcast worldwide.
Speaker 7 (45:33):
I'm Tanya Kane-Perry and I'm Marcos Najera With News
Wrap, a summary of some of thenews in or affecting LGBTQ
communities around the world forthe two weeks ending December 7
, 2024.
Gender-affirming health carefor trans patients under the age
of 18 was the issue before theUnited States Supreme Court this
(45:54):
week.
The historic December 4thhearings considered a
constitutional challenge toTennessee's ban on all pediatric
transitioning treatments.
The case is called US vScrimetti, with Tennessee's
Attorney General JonathanScrimetti as the named defendant
.
Challenging the ban on behalfof Tennessee families with trans
(46:17):
children was the ACLU's ChaseStrangio, the first transgender
person to argue a case beforethe nation's highest court.
Speaker 8 (46:25):
This law we believe is unconstitutional.
And perhaps the scariest thingfor all of us is that
Tennessee's arguments wouldapply if Congress tomorrow
banned this care nationally foradolescents.
For adults, they claim thatthere are no protections based
on sex.
For the transgender people likemyself who rely on this medical
(46:49):
care, Attorneys fighting theban argued that it constitutes
discrimination based on sex.
Speaker 7 (46:55):
Tennessee Solicitor General Matthew Rice said that
it is not true.
Speaker 9 (47:00):
Tennessee lawmakers enacted SB1 to protect minors
from risky, unproven medicalinterventions.
The law imposes anacross-the-board rule that
allows the use of drugs andsurgeries for some medical
purposes, but not for others.
The use of drugs and surgeriesfor some medical purposes but
not for others.
Its application turns entirelyon medical purpose, not a
patient's sex.
(47:20):
That is not sex discrimination.
The whole thing is imbued withsex.
Speaker 7 (47:27):
Progressive Justice Elena Kagan begged to differ.
Speaker 6 (47:31):
I mean it's based on sex.
You might have reasons forthinking that it's an
appropriate regulation and thosereasons should be tested and
respect given to them.
But it's a dodge to say thatthis is not based on sex.
It's based on medical purpose,when the medical purpose is
utterly and entirely about sex.
Speaker 7 (47:52):
The treatment of young trans patients with
reversible puberty blockers andhormone therapies can often be
life-saving.
Literally, that's the opinionof virtually every professional
medical and mental healthorganization in the United
States, including the AmericanMedical Association and the
American Psychiatric Association, along with the American
(48:13):
Academy of PediatricsAssociation, along with the
American Academy of Pediatrics.
However, the justices'questions and comments led most
observers to believe that theconservative 6-3 Supreme Court
majority will uphold theTennessee ban.
Justice Brett Kavanaugh andother conservatives cited the
United Kingdom's discredited CASreport, which claims that
(48:36):
pediatric gender-affirminghealth care is too risky.
He also pointed to Sweden'sbackpedaling on the issue as a
reason to say that the jury isstill out on whether the
benefits of puberty blockers andhormone therapy outweigh the
risks.
Speaker 10 (48:50):
If it's evolving like that and changing and
England's pulling back andSweden's pulling back, it
strikes me as pretty heavyyellow light, if not red light,
for this court to come in thenine of us and to
constitutionalize the whole areawhen the rest of the world, or
at least the countries that havebeen at the forefront of this,
(49:13):
are pumping the brakes on thiskind of treatment because of
concerns about the risks.
Speaker 7 (49:18):
Kavanaugh and Justices Amy Coney Barrett and
Neil Gorsuch are all Trumpappointees to the court.
Gorsuch famously authored thesurprising 6-3 Bostock decision
in 2020, the first time a rulinginvolving a transgender person
was handed down by the court.
It found that federal lawsbanning employment bias based on
(49:40):
sex also protect lesbian, gay,bisexual and transgender workers
.
However, gorsuch was notablysilent during this week's
two-hour-plus hearing.
Us Solicitor General ElizabethProloger questioned the
constitutionality of theTennessee law.
She asserted that transgenderpeople should be a protected
class in anti-discriminationlaws.
Speaker 11 (50:02):
If you're approaching this from the
standpoint of saying is this agroup with a distinguishing
characteristic that has nobearing on their ability to
contribute and that needs someprotection from the courts?
I think if any group qualifies,this one does in light of the
current laws and what might comein the future, A ruling in
support of the Tennessee banwould most likely validate
similar bans on pediatricgender-affirming health care.
Speaker 7 (50:24):
They've been enacted by Republican majorities in more
than a dozen other states andsome of them continue to be
challenged in lower courts.
A decision by the Supreme Courtis not expected until next June
.
Speaker 12 (50:38):
The justice system in Russia can move swiftly with
its so-called part-of-measuresto combat LGBT propaganda.
That's how the officialstate-run TASS news agency
described the November 30thraids on three queer-welcoming
night spots in Moscow.
Described the November 30thraids on three queer-welcoming
(50:58):
night spots in Moscow.
Seven patrons of ARMA, Infernoand Mono were soon thereafter
convicted of petty hooliganismand disrupting public order.
According to the press servicefor the Lefortova District Court
in Moscow, the defendants werecharged with what was called an
administrative offense, whichwas expressed in obvious
disrespect for society,accompanied by obscene language
(51:19):
in a public place.
Raids like this have been goingon sporadically since President
Vladimir Putin's regimedeclared the non-existent
international public LGBTmovement to be extremist in 2023
.
Young men netted in the raid onthe Mono Night Spot were handed
military draft notices.
Per reports and local newsoutlet Vyotska, One of the
(51:43):
arrested patrons is the directorof a travel agency for gay men.
According to the Moscow Times,he was also detained for
organizing tours for members ofthe LGBT community.
Speaker 7 (51:55):
Walmart is abandoning its policies promoting
diversity, equity and inclusion,or DEI.
The largest retailer in theUnited States will no longer
participate in the corporateequity index of the national
queer advocacy group, the HumanRights Campaign.
It's the latest major USmultinational company to jump
the DEI ship.
(52:16):
Walmart has additionallypromised to be sure that
inappropriate sexual and ortransgender products are not
marketed to children.
According to USA Today, itemslike chest binders for trans
youth will disappear from thewebsite.
The term Latinx and anyvestiges of what critics
(52:38):
consider part of the woke agendawill be erased from corporate
communications.
Walmart's 1.6 million employeesat nearly 5,000 locations in
the US alone will no longerreceive racial equity training.
Far-right social mediainfluencer Robbie Starbuck is
taking credit for this latestattack on corporate DEI programs
(52:59):
.
He's convinced a growing listof multinationals to abandon
their diversity effortsCompanies like Tractor Supply,
john Deere, lowe's Ford,harley-davidson and Jack Daniels
.
Starbuck's victory post calledWalmart's capitulation the
biggest win yet for our movementto end wokeness in corporate
America.
Finally, I've got a meeting inthe ladies' room.
(53:25):
I don't need this.
I'll be back real soon.
That's what I did for being inthe ladies' room.
Speaker 12 (53:32):
More than two dozen trans activists and cisgender
allies failed to disperse whiledancing to the strains of
climaxes.
Meeting in the ladies room in aUS Capitol bathroom close to
the offices of House SpeakerMike Johnson, they were
protesting Republican efforts inthe lower chamber to force
transgender DemocraticCongressperson-elect Sarah
McBride of Delaware to use malebathrooms and changing rooms.
(53:55):
Trans whistleblower ChelseaManning was among those arrested
for what they called thisweek's act of joyful resistance.
Speaker Johnson has backedSouth Carolina congressperson
Nancy Mace's effort to blockadethe House's first trans member.
Banners displayed by supportersin the hallway declared Flush
bathroom bigotry and Congress.
(54:17):
Stop on our rights.
It's a different picture in theRepublican-dominated Montana
State House, where a bid toforce a trans woman to use male
facilities failed.
A House committee rejected aproposal against outspoken
transgender state lawmaker, zoeZephyr in a narrow vote of 10
yes and 12 no.
(54:38):
Zephyr celebrated the win in asocial media post that read I'm
happy to see that this proposedban failed and I'm grateful for
my colleagues, particularly myRepublican colleagues, who
recognize this as a distractionfrom the work we were elected to
do.
Speaker 7 (54:56):
That's News Wrap, global, queer news with attitude
for the two weeks endingDecember 7th 2024.
Follow the news in your areaand around the world.
An informed community is astrong community.
Speaker 12 (55:08):
News Wrap is written by Greg Gordon and Lucia
Chappelle, produced by BrianDeShazer and brought to you by
you.
Thank you.
Speaker 7 (55:16):
Help keep us in ears around the world at
thiswayoutorg, where you canalso read the text of this
newscast and much more.
For this Way Out, I'm TonyaKane-Perry.
Stay healthy.
Speaker 12 (55:26):
And I'm Marcos Najera, stay safe.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
Martha, what'd that fella on the wireless?
Just say Something about them,interwebs.
You don't have to ask Martha.
We've got all the names, datesand webpage links for people,
events and anything elsementioned in the show right on
our own website.
It's QueerVoicesorg.
We even link to past shows andother tidbits of information, so
(55:58):
check it out, queervoicesorg.
Besides, martha is a cat.
She doesn't know anything aboutwebsites.
This has been Queer Voices,heard on KPFT Houston and as a
(56:26):
podcast available from severalpodcasting sources.
Check our webpageQueerVoicesorg for more
information.
Queer Voices executive produceris Brian Levinka, deborah
Moncrief-Bell is co-producer,brett Cullum and David
Mendoza-Druzman are contributors, and Brett is also our
webmaster.
The News Wrap segment is partof another podcast called this
(56:49):
Way Out, which is produced inLos Angeles.
Speaker 13 (56:53):
Some of the material in this program has been edited
to improve clarity and runtime.
This program does not endorseany political views or animal
species.
Views, opinions andendorsements are those of the
participants and theorganizations they represent.
In case of death, pleasediscontinue use and discard
remaining products.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
For Queer Voices.
I'm Glenn Holt, Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com