April 23, 2025 • 58 mins
We speak with Joshua Burford, Co-Founder and Co-Executive Director of Invisible Histories; talking about their virtual community education event on May 14th. Invisible Histories is a regional non-profit focused on research and preservation of the diverse Queer and Trans history of the American South.
It's National Poetry Month, and Deborah Moncrief Bell has a conversation with Blacqwildflowr She is the winner of the 2025 Hear Her Voice National Slam Event.
And Brett Cullum talks with Jenny Lee Stern, an actress who is coming to Houston with FORBIDDEN BROADWAY, at the Hobby Center, from April 24th through the 26th: Brett and Jenny talk about juggling a family and Patti LuPone.
Tickets and information here.
Queer Voices airs in Houston Texas on 90.1FM KPFT and is heard as a podcast here. Queer Voices hopes to entertain as well as illuminate LGBTQ issues in Houston and beyond. Check out our socials at:
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, this is Queer Voices, a podcast
version of a broadcast radioshow that's been on the air in
Houston, Texas, for severaldecades.
This week, DavidMendoza-Duruzman talks with
Joshua Burford, co-founder andco-executive director of
Invisible Histories, talkingabout their virtual community
(00:22):
education event on May 14th.
Invisible Histories is aregional nonprofit focused on
research and preservation of thediverse queer and trans history
of the American South.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
We are still about the business of preservation and
accessibility to queer Southernhistory.
That is our centerpiece, thatis our goal, that is our desire.
What has changed for us is thespeed at which we're having to
collect, because things are soat risk now.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
It's National Poetry Month and Debra Moncrief-Bell
has a conversation with BlackWildflower.
She is the winner of the 2025Hear Her Voice National Slam
event, and Brett Cullum talkswith Jenny Lee Stern, an actress
who is coming to Houston withForbidden Broadway at the Hobby
(01:14):
Center from April 24th throughthe 26th.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
I have been a member of the family, as they say, for
about 14 years, did my firstproduction about 13, 14 years
ago.
It was called ForbiddenBroadway, alive and Kicking.
So Forbidden Broadway has sortof been continuously running 25
years or something at that point, and then they had taken a
five-year hiatus, which for themwas like major.
(01:40):
This production, alive andKicking, was the first one back.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Queer Voices starts now.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
I'm Davis Mendoza-Duruzman.
I'm speaking today with JoshuaBurford, an award-winning
historian, archivist, educatorand co-founder and co-executive
director of Invisible Histories,a regional nonprofit focused on
the preservation, access andresearch of the diverse queer
and trans history of theAmerican South.
At a time when LGBTQ plushistory is being banned,
(02:11):
censored or erased, his work isa much needed act of resistance.
Welcome to Queer Voices, joshua.
Thank you so much for having me.
I wanted to start off by askingwhat inspired you to co-found
Invisible Histories with yourcolleague, dr Megan Sullivan,
and why center specifically inthe South.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I had been living in Charlotte, North Carolina, I was
teaching at the universitythere and I had been working on
an archive of LGBT experience inCharlotte with the city,
experience in Charlotte with thecity and in 2015, Megan, who at
the time was working at auniversity in Alabama, called me
and said hey, would you want tocome down and give a talk?
And so, after the talk was over, we were talking together.
(02:53):
She said you know what do youthink about the idea of doing
the project you're working on inNorth Carolina but here in
Alabama?
And I was like I think that's agreat idea.
I think both of us were kind ofsick and tired of higher ed.
We wanted to break, we wantedindependence and we wanted to be
able to do our work in a waythat we were able to control
better than we had been in ourjobs in higher education.
(03:14):
We had this idea you know what,if we just took a shot and
worked on a statewide LGBTarchives project and let's do it
in our home state?
I grew up in Alabama in a towncalled Anniston, and she grew up
in North Alabama in theAppalachian Mountains in a place
called Sand Mountain, and so weknew Alabama pretty well.
We both went to graduate schoolat the University of Alabama
(03:35):
and so we thought we're going todo a project like this, let's
do it somewhere where we haveconnections.
Let's run this project likeother Southerners have run
projects in the past, which isworking your networks and really
building that kind of trust.
It was the kind of job that weboth really wanted to do, but
also it was just it was time,and so we thought hell, let's
take a shot and see if we canmake this work.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Well, that's incredible, and the rest is
history.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, it's wild to think that we picked up our
first collection like almosteight years ago.
I mean, so much has happenedsince then, not just for us, but
like for everybody.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
And I did want to address the rainbow elephant in
the room, which is we're livingin a time when LGBTQ plus
history and visibility are underthreat.
So how is Invisible Historiesresponding to these challenges
and how have you all beenresponding to these challenges?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
And how can communities support with this
resistance?
I don't know that ourfundamental work has changed.
We are still about the businessof preservation and
accessibility to queer Southernhistory.
That is our centerpiece, thatis our goal, that is our desire.
What has changed for us is onethe speed at which we're having
to collect, because things areso at risk.
(04:49):
Now there's so many offices allaround the country that are
closing in universities, peopleare losing funding and closing
community centers, and werealized at the end of last year
that if there was ever going tobe any hope of bringing these
places back, we were going tohave to start collecting at a
much higher speed, and so westarted in December with a
hackathon.
We had like 300 some oddvolunteers, and we went in and
(05:12):
started downloading and savingas many LGBT websites in the
South as we could Organizations,university groups and orgs data
that was being kept at thenational level.
We were backing everything up,and we did that again in January
, and so to date, we've backedup almost 980 websites and saved
(05:32):
over 2,000 documents from theseat-risk places.
We also realized really quicklythat this wasn't just a thing
happening in the American South,and so we decided that we would
open up our DEI efforts to therest of the country to see how
much we could possibly save.
And so we've really beenthinking hard about what it
means for us to do our work asan independent org, and so we've
(05:54):
made the bold to provide aneven safer environment for
people and to empower people inthis time of hopelessness to
really stay involved, stayconnected and keep doing the
work.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
And that leads to my next question of the permanent
archive sets open in Charlottein 2026.
What stories or collections areyou most excited for people to
experience that you can sharewith us, and what do you hope
the archive will mean for thecommunity?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I mean, it's such a hard thing to ask an archivist
to talk about their favoritecollection, because there's so
many things in our, in ourpermanent collection that I
think people should be excitedabout.
We have a growing collection oflesbian southern history, you
know land movements, movements,activism, music festivals,
things that I'm so pumped forpeople to be able to come and
(06:49):
experience.
These collections are physicaland digital, so we have a ton of
video that people are going tobe able to watch.
We have a growing collection ofqueer people of color in the
American South.
We have new partnerships comingup with some Latinx groups,
some Black-led queerorganizations in Atlanta and
Jackson, and this history isjust so.
(07:11):
It's not just that, it'sinspiring.
It's so amazing to think ofwhat people were able to do with
so much less technology, somuch less communication options.
So I want people to getinspired and I think that's what
we hope that the physicallocation will be, you know, not
just a home for materials, butalso a landing spot.
We want people to be in thatspace with us, have meetings in
(07:33):
that space for organizations,bring students, bring community
people, you know, have a self,have celebrations.
There's so many orgs in theAmerican South that are now
queer orgs, that are turning 50,that are turning 60.
And we want that power space tobe a place for that to happen.
Also, let people in thecommunity imagine what we could
be doing in that space as a realpartnership.
(07:54):
I think to me is reallyexciting.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
And when I'm not contributing for Queer Voices, I
consider myself a communityorganizer here in Houston,
coalition building with numerousLGBTQ plus led and serving
organizations here in Houston,and just hearing this is
inspiring, and learning moreabout invisible histories is
inspiring.
I'm curious if you havesomething that you would like
(08:18):
organizers or people interestedin getting more involved in
their communities and organizing, in getting more involved in
their communities and organizingwhat's something that maybe
there is a bit of distancebetween us and the permanent
archive, both in terms of timeand location, but how can
organizers and people wanting toget involved learn more through
Invisible Histories and whatcan we take away from it?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
One of the things that we offer.
In fact, we have somethingcoming up in May May the 14th
we're doing a free onlinecommunity event, 6 pm Central,
and it's basically anintroduction to Invisible
Histories, and so we want peopleto come to that event and sit
down and listen to us talk abouthow we are doing our work,
because we want people toemulate what we're doing.
(09:00):
We want people to turn to theirown communities, find where the
elders are, record and talk tothem.
If you're in an organization,where are your records?
How are you preserving those?
How are you backing things up?
We want everyone, in their ownway, to be a community archivist
because, to your point, you'rein your own community, much
closer than we are.
Even if we were in Texas let'ssay we were in Austin you're
(09:23):
still much closer to the Houstoncommunity than we would be if
we were there.
We need people to be lookinginside their own communities,
seeing what is there of ourhistory and then doing whatever
they can to preserve physicaldocuments, backup digital
documents and really start theprocess, and so people can come
to this event on the 14th of May.
You can also request we dotrainings for organizations and
(09:45):
community organizers on how tostart the process of preserving
your documents.
But, in all honesty, everythingwe do is on our website Like,
take some time, read, you know,the materials we've put out.
We've got zines about how to docommunity archiving, memorials
for people who've passed, how toarchive political campaigns and
all of that is for queer peoplein the South, really anywhere
(10:08):
to you and so make use of us andreach out.
I mean, you can reach out to usat Contact InvisibleHistory
anytime and we're happy to talkto people about what we can do
to partner, because this is acommunity initiative and we want
the community to be as involvedas they can.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
I love turning the current rhetoric of trying to
erase our history on its head.
If you're like you want toerase our history, We'll archive
more history, even more thanwe've ever done in the past.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
We have a saying here that archiving is resistance.
You know this idea of anadministration that is trying to
wipe us all out of our ownhistory books they're taking
down our monuments.
They're taking down ourlanguage right.
The act of physically archivingis an act of both individual,
political and social resistanceto the idea that we could be
wiped out, and so every singlebox of things we save is a big
(10:58):
no to anyone that wants to getrid of it.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
I love that.
And just for my last question,I've been really appreciative of
our time speaking.
Invisible Histories worksacross about 13 southern states.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
That's correct.
Yeah, we have a network calledQueer History South and so it's
a virtual network.
We have nearly a thousandpeople involved in some aspect
of community history organizing,history organizing and then we
also run a conference every twoyears.
The next one is in 2026, theQueer History South conference
where people can come meet otherorganizers, other historians
(11:31):
and learn, you know, aboutthings that are happening in
other parts of the South.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
I'm sure throughout the history of Invisible
Histories, there have been a lotof powerful moments and stories
and conversations that you'vehad, and you mentioned asking an
archivist to share theirfavorites.
It's probably difficult, but Ido love to end my interviews
with like a personal connection,a story, if you have one, just
a powerful moment throughoutyour work that's really stayed
(11:58):
with you.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Oh man, I mean, I just get to know the best people
in my work, you know, likeelders and young people who are
all resisting.
I'll tell you two quick things.
The item that I'm the mostconnected to in our office is a
diary from the Second World Warthat we received.
The guy was from Alabama.
He wrote in this diary thewhole time he was in the
(12:21):
European theater.
And then he returns to Alabama,realizes that he wants to be
actively out and queer, and sohe moves to California.
He never came back to Alabama.
When he passed away, his nephew,who is a straight guy, was so
had such a close relationshipwith his uncle that he did not
want his uncle's story, hislegacy, to be forgotten.
(12:44):
And so he gathered up thisdiary, photos, testimonials, and
then he donated all of that toInvisible History so that his
uncle's legacy and that is sucha powerful thing to happen.
The other thing, if you don'tmind me mentioning, is at
Creative History South last yearin Charlotte, we gave people an
opportunity to network withinthe groups.
(13:05):
I found out a few months agothat a group of young activists,
mostly queer people of color,met at our conference and they
had been meeting every monthsince the conference ended and
so we had no idea that was evengoing on.
It just happened naturally, andnow that group is meeting and
starting their own cohort ofpeople in Georgia and other
(13:27):
parts of the South that areworking together as young
activists, and that is justawesome.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I was speaking today with Joshua Burford, co-founder
and co-executive director ofInvisible Histories.
Join them on Wednesday, may14th 2025, at 6 pm Central Time,
because Invisible Histories ishosting an online info session
about their LGBTQ plus communityarchive, and be on the lookout
for the opening of theirpermanent archive next year.
Thank you so much for joiningus on Queer Voices.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
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funded?
There are no underwriters, soit's up to all of us to pay for
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That means you participate inour programming just by
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(14:18):
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Thank you.
Speaker 6 (14:32):
The night is long and the path is dark.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Look to the sky for what it's called.
The dawn will come.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
This is Queer Voices.
Speaker 7 (14:53):
This is Deborah Moncrief Bell and it's April,
and that means it's NationalPoetry Month, so guess what
we're going to be talking about?
Poetry, of course, and joiningus is Black Wallflower.
She blew us away when sheshared some of her work at the
summit that was held at theMontrose Center earlier this
(15:14):
year.
That was held at the MontroseCenter earlier this year, and
she's joining us to talk aboutthe importance of National
Poetry Month and also her ownwork.
She's a three-timeaward-winning lead performance
etiquette instructor, anacclaimed poet, host executive
producer, affirmation goddessand published author.
(15:35):
Two of her works are On BruisedKnees and Rooted.
Welcome to Queer Voices.
Let's talk just a little bitfirst of all about National
Poetry Month.
Can you explain Well?
Speaker 8 (15:50):
it's exciting to be able to talk about how important
poetry and expression is to ourcommunity.
So National Poetry Month is theopportunity for all individuals
to express themselves throughart and that being, with their
voice or for the page.
And what a lot of individualsdo is they write each day of the
(16:15):
month.
I've seen collaborations thatlook like a poem that starts one
day and then by the 30th daythey've got an entire poem, but
that is broken down intoindividual poems by the day.
So people do some fun,energetic things, but it gives
the opportunity just to getcreative in the work and
(16:35):
celebrate expression.
Speaker 7 (16:43):
Poetry seems to be a form of literature that really
gets in touch with emotions, notquite like any other thing, and
I think that's part of why it'sappealing to many of us Also.
We love songs, and songs arerooted in poetry.
Tell me a little bit about thisslam poetry thing.
What exactly is that?
What does it mean?
Speaker 8 (17:05):
Now we're talking about something that I love so
much Slam poetry is competitivepoetry.
So what that looks like is youhave, like your page poetry,
which is the opportunity towrite and express yourself, and
then you have the opportunitythen say those words from spoken
word to now in a competitivearena.
And I have gotten theopportunity to compete across
(17:28):
the nation.
And so we have competitionsthat can look like citywide
competitions.
You know something you dolocally at a coffee shop, or you
can have an experience whereyou go to something like the
Woman of the World Poetry Slam,which is international and
there's women from all overwomen identifying poets, and we
come and celebrate sharing ourtruth but competing.
(17:50):
So that looks like five randomjudges out of the audience.
This started many, many yearsago in Chicago and now has
progressed to the point where wecontinually get an opportunity
to do it and it's fun becauseyou get paid to express yourself
.
So those five random judgesjudge you and then whatever sets
the mood for the night they canget paid, sometimes up to
(18:11):
thousands of dollars.
So it's super exciting and justan opportunity to kind of
gamble your expression.
Speaker 7 (18:17):
You won the In Her Voice 2025 competition.
Speaker 8 (18:21):
I was wondering about that, about how do you manage
to go all over the country anddo this, so it's good to know
that people are being paid fortheir work yes, absolutely so
many ways that you can get paidfor your expression, and this is
a fun way that I love.
I started when I was 15 yearsold, and why it was so important
(18:42):
to go to an experience like InHer Voice is because it started
back in Tampa, where I'm from, aspace for women to express
themselves but also receive theresources that are necessary to
say, hey, poetry is therapeutic,but we also have other
resources that you can grab ontoas well at the type of events
(19:05):
that they have, and so it wasjust very exciting that they had
this event and they opened itup to the nation, and so you had
to apply and audition online,and then they chose the poets
that they felt moved the messagethey wanted, which was
empowerment and being able totell your experience of healing,
conquering and growing throughlife.
(19:28):
But I think the most importantthing to me about that
competition yeah, you get to win$1,000.
Yeah, you get to get a trophy.
But it was a young lady whocame in second place.
She said I've been watching youthree years ago and I saw how
vulnerable you are and it justexcited me to know that I can
tell my story and that's mygreatest win tonight, so thank
(19:50):
you for bringing that up.
It always reminds me to begrateful of expression and to be
vulnerable and share work.
So, yes, it was such a funexperience.
Speaker 7 (20:00):
You're a proud member of the Smoke Slam Poetry Team,
so exactly how does that workhaving a team which is currently
ranked number one in thesouthern region?
Speaker 8 (20:12):
Yes, it is a pleasure and a true honor to have
coaching from Ebony Stewart.
She is a poetry legend when itcomes to Houston, austin, just
Texas period.
And so what happened is we alldecided to share our work and it
was in front of an audience.
Again, you have those judgesand they choose what it looks
(20:35):
like and the team will look like, and so we all were able to
come together, pull our creativework from all different parts
Like we're all from differentplaces and then she's able to
coach us.
What that looks like is fivedifferent individuals who are
coming together and tellingtheir stories, and it's so
beautiful because we get anopportunity to do something
really special.
(20:56):
That, I think, makes it fun tobe on a team.
Not only do you get to writeyour story and weave your
stories together, but you get tospeak in a way that maybe you
didn't get the opportunity toput forth as just one voice.
You get to add choreo.
It's just super fun and it hastruly been a great outlet for
(21:17):
myself.
So, yes, we went all the way tosouthern pride and we won and
it was just amazing.
So that's like on every poet'sbucket list every slam poet.
Speaker 7 (21:26):
it's really different than just reading a poem, which
in itself can be quitesomething.
You can read it and and read itmany times over years and it
will touch you each time.
But in the kind of poetryyou're presenting it's actually
a performance, so it brings in alot of different elements.
(21:48):
Like you said, there's evenchoreography involved.
Houston has been blessed withquite a few poetry groups,
opportunities for people to doreadings or to work on their
craft, and so I find that veryexciting.
You said you kind of gotstarted when you were 15 years
(22:09):
old.
Speaker 8 (22:11):
I'm going to be honest, I started actually
writing much younger, abouteight years old.
We had something, because I'mfrom Florida, so we had
something called the FCAT rights, which is similar to the
writing test you guys have here,and so what was very unique
about that was I wrote such agreat essay that they showed it
(22:32):
around to every student as anexample for the test in the
county.
And my mom she saw that as amoment to say wait, she's got a
gift here.
She bought me my first diary inthe fourth grade and I began to
write, and I began to writepoetry, and it was when I was 15
, I went to Howard W Blake,which is a performing arts high
school, and I started to learnspoken word, which is like how
(22:55):
you're saying.
It's the difference of not onlyam I writing my emotions, now I
have to embody it, so it's notjust about what you're reading,
it's about what you feel.
And so it opened my world tochallenge me, to think about
what parts of my story that Iwanted to connect with other
people, and from there it hadjust grown.
(23:17):
I was introduced to slam poetryby Walter B Jennings, who is a
mentor for myself and many otheryoung people in Tampa, florida,
and so it just blossomed fromthere.
So I'm so grateful for the giftand I'm honestly I pay tribute
to my mother for just seeing itas an opportunity for me to be
able to express myself.
Speaker 7 (23:39):
There's also this idea of other poets who you're
yes, you're in competition, butyou're also supporting one
another.
Speaker 8 (23:48):
Absolutely.
I will tell you, my greatestgift is having the opportunity
to sit down in someone's livingroom and hear their story.
And I mean whether, whateveremotion it comes out of being
able to sit and be a thoughtpartner and help someone work
through such a challenging issue, and being able to translate
(24:10):
that into a space where we feelsafe to say the things maybe we
didn't get a chance to say toour our family members or our
friends, or it just gives you anopportunity to build community,
and that is truly the greatestgift, greater than any trophy or
any award.
It's those moments, like theyoung poet I was telling you,
mina, said to me it gives me adrive to be vulnerable.
(24:33):
That's what those work roomslook like and it's so amazing to
know.
Man, this poem came from aliving room and five of us are
up here now telling our truthabout being black and being in
america and and having theseemotions balled up, or or being
queer and not knowing what thatlooks like at 30.
Right?
Just so many different, funways to experiment with your
(24:53):
expression.
Speaker 7 (24:55):
You can really get in touch with yourself.
Also, craft it in such a waythat you hit upon the
commonality of thread, I guessyou would say, of how that exact
feeling or that life event isrelatable to so many other
people.
You think it's very personal,and it is, but then when you
(25:19):
express it and others hear theirwords, the reason that it
resonates is because it'srelatable.
Speaker 8 (25:26):
I think that the greatest misperception is that,
because I'm a poet, I alwayswill know how to express myself.
I actually have a challengebefore I get on stage, sometimes
, because people see me when Iget on stage, sometimes because
people see me when I'm on thestage and they're like oh my God
, you're resilient and you tolda story that I've always had
locked inside.
I mean, I wasn't able to, and Ithink what people don't get an
opportunity to know or see isthat it takes a journey.
(25:50):
Sometimes I've been writing onsomething for five years and I'm
just getting it out.
Something unique about what yousaid is just that opportunity to
push forward and buildcommunity and say you know what?
This is something that has tobe shown to the world and has to
give others maybe a mirror.
Maybe it's not their exact samestory, but maybe it inspires
(26:12):
them to say I've got somethingto say too, and I think that
expression is something that weneed.
I needed that as a young person.
There's no difference from meand someone who ended up in a
really bad situation.
Besides that, I had theopportunity to express myself
and build community, and that'sjust me speaking truly from the
heart.
Speaker 7 (26:33):
Speaking from the heart and speaking truth to
power.
Speaker 8 (26:37):
My greatest power, I tell, and I give again that
honor to my mother.
It was finding my voice andeven to this day.
It's a beautiful journeybecause you're writing changes
as you change in so manydifferent layers of life.
Speaker 7 (27:11):
This is Deborah Moncrief Bell and we're talking
National Poetry Month.
With Black Wildflower, anaward-winning poet.
A slamrose Center at the summitthat we had blew us away.
We were in awe.
That was how powerful it was.
Do you have something that youcould share with the listeners
of Queer Voices?
Speaker 8 (27:29):
Absolutely, and I would like to share that poem
Vibrant.
I would love to share that withyou all, if that's all right.
There's a phenomenon birthedwhen light enters a water
droplet, the light bends,reflecting off the inside,
separating its componentsbetween wavelengths and colors.
(27:49):
When the light exits thedroplet, it is born as a rainbow
.
And I've asked many men whatwould you do if your son was
born a rainbow?
And they say I would never wantmy son to be gay, as if that
was only a choice that theydidn't want them to make, that
(28:12):
they didn't want their sons tobe vibrant, as if that was only
for their daughters, as if boysshould be boys and not so
feminine, as if exuding feminineenergy was a cause of weakness.
One guy said he'd rather killhis son than watch it rise.
Why do death and rainbow sharethe same same womb?
(28:35):
Isn't black the intensity ofall colors collaborating?
Someone once said they'd rathertheir son be a murderer than
for him to be gay.
Rather he take someone else'slife than to live his own.
So I wonder what they'd sayabout my son if he was born a
rainbow baby, which is a baby?
That is a lot that is bornafter a mischild or loss, loss
(29:01):
of child.
Two days after I found her, Iwas pregnant.
The father told me he couldnever be in love with me.
The next day, a rosy red rivercrawled from in between my
thighs.
I have never felt more blue.
Insomnia colors my eyes red andI have never.
I have never felt so blue.
But this, this is the secondchild that I've lost, and
(29:23):
straight men have told me thatthey'd rather kill their son
when my womb has already carriedso much death.
Isn't it more important to loveyour child than to never get the
chance at all?
Even if my son is born gay,when his body exits mine, it
will be the birth of a rainbow,and I'll assure him that black
boys, black boys, can be lively.
(29:46):
They can be soft, gentle, free.
So live loud, love loud, laughloud.
It's okay to see your mother inyour reflection too, cause
what's a man without feminineenergy, colorless?
And if they try, if they try tobe violent with my son because
(30:07):
his smile is painted violent, ifdull men try to dim him, tell
him he is too black boy to bearluminosity.
I'll assure him to dance,darling dance, like yesterday.
It's jealous to watch you.
You are my rainbow baby.
I have already dug Through thestorms of my depression.
My son, you are my rainbow baby.
(30:29):
You don't have to wait forsomeone to see how much of a
bold miracle and phenomenon youare.
So even if Even if my son isgay, I will love all the shine
in his curiosity for him to be ablack boy.
I would be grateful just tohave him alive.
Speaker 7 (30:50):
That is so powerful and and and so true.
Thank you so much for sharingthat with us.
Do you have any other poem thatyou would like to share?
Speaker 8 (31:01):
Yeah, I would be open to sharing another poem, and
thank you so much for speakingto that as well.
It is hard to be able toexpress such vulnerable work
sometimes, but it's needed, andso something else I'd like to
share is a poem called For theGods.
And so something else I'd liketo share is a poem called For
the Gods.
I still find myself hanging inthe closet doorway trying to
(31:22):
pick the right mood.
Sort the bag of bones beneaththe bed to get ready can be a
grieving ritual, but I am morethan just a pattern of my prick
past.
I'm unfolding myself.
From becoming someone else'sdirty laundry, I decided I'm not
dressing up my depressionanymore.
I'm an androgynous blend ofbutton-ups and bralettes, chunky
(31:51):
heels and oversized hoodie.
Feels I walk into the room likeGod sent me here.
It's not my clothing thatcaptures the eye, it's my
spiritual aesthetic.
It's not my clothing thatcaptures the eye, it's my
spiritual aesthetic.
Yet my grandmother still can'tend a phone call without
reminding me that I'm going tohell.
Tell me never to wear my gayaround her, and I can't remember
the last time she's seen howfly I am, how I patch myself
(32:11):
back together every time.
They say it's just a phase mygrandmother asked me was I gay?
Only because of what he did.
Regret was a thread hanging usby our tongues.
I became a mouth stitched withlavender.
I would watch what I worearound men.
How ugly I felt to be, a womanwho didn't know how to style
herself and anything other thanher grandmother's insults.
(32:32):
A fabric stitched in my seamspassed down through family jeans
.
A denim of denying queernesssewn underneath my scalp
reinforced the needle when I wastold a sports bra would make me
gay or I look like a boywithout wearing earrings.
I had to learn how to be thestraight stitch, be the him
holding the family secret fromunraveling.
(32:54):
I didn't know why my cousin keptintroducing me as confused.
I didn't know how they saw mysexuality as a costume.
I didn't know how to make PTSDlook presentable to my
ex-partner.
She always asked why didn't Idress up for her?
She didn't realize how hard itwas for me to dress up my
depression from the people Ilove.
Patch up the past with prickedfingers.
(33:15):
I pulled myself out of garbagebags my ex-boyfriend crammed my
clothes into.
When he kicked me out he saidhow can I explain that you're
pansexual to my family?
Like being queer is a questionmark and everyone explains how
they think I'll be a negativeinfluence to the children.
When wearing a stitched mouthis a family hand-me-down no
(33:36):
child chooses to put on, I foundsecurity in the comfort of my
own cotton hands that pulled myneck off, that hanger with every
fiber of my being.
I am buying the seams ofdenying loving who I am.
I've sewn my joy back together,all styled in zen, safe in my
skin, around men again, becausefor the first time I picked this
(33:59):
out and I look too good toapologize for how I choose to
see myself healing Black queerwoman dressed for the divine
gods.
Speaker 7 (34:10):
The only reaction I can have to that is just wow.
Thank you so much for sharingyour work with us and talking
about National Poetry Month.
This is Deborah Moncrief Bell,along with Black Wallflower.
How can people find out moreabout you, your socials or buy
your books?
Speaker 8 (34:30):
I have a book coming out this summer entitled
Lavender.
You can check me out onInstagram.
My platform on every platform,excuse me is Black Wildflower,
and you can also find me on mywebsite as well.
It is entitled my name, blackwildflowercom.
I'm super excited and sograteful to have shared the
(34:52):
issues that some black queerwomen or black queer individuals
may struggle with maybe comingout with their families or
sharing their experiences.
I'm grateful for theopportunity to share what that
looked like on my end.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
This is KPFT 90.1 FM Houston, 89.5 FM Galveston, 91.9
FM Huntsville, and worldwide onthe internet at kpftorg.
Speaker 6 (35:23):
Jenny Lee Stern is a Broadway actress who is coming
to Houston with ForbiddenBroadway.
Merrily, we Stole a Song at theHouston Hobby Center.
It's going to be playing fromApril 24th through the 26th, so
kind of a fast run.
Jenny has been in some seriousmusicals, but this show is a
send up, a spoof of the greatwhite way Like you've never seen
.
You're going to get to seecabaret, you'll see gypsy,
(35:45):
you'll see the outsiders andJuliet probably six plus
forbidden Broadway skewers, suchfavorites and classics such as
phantom and Les Mis.
Jenny, how awesome to have youand Forbidden Broadway coming to
Houston.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Thank you, I'm so excited.
I've never been to Houston, soI'm really looking forward to it
.
Speaker 6 (36:05):
It's all about the Tex-Mex and the humidity, that's
it.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
That's what I heard.
I did another interview lastweek and I was like, what do I
need to do?
And she was literally likemargaritas Tex-Mex and like
dress comfortably.
Speaker 6 (36:19):
Yes, your skin will be amazing.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
You'll get this great glow.
I can't wait.
Oh, I can't wait.
Speaker 6 (36:22):
Yeah, you know, forbidden Broadway's been an
institution since 1982.
Yes, labergast, it has beengoing on and I love it.
And help me with this guy'sname Gerard Alessandrini.
Okay, help me with this guy'sname Gerard Alessandrini
Alessandrini.
Okay, he's been doing it thewhole time.
Yes, sir.
How did you end up in thisproduction?
Speaker 3 (36:43):
I have been a member of the family, as they say, for
about 14 years, did my firstproduction about 13, 14 years
ago.
It was called ForbiddenBroadway, alive and Kicking.
So Forbidden Broadway has sortof been continuously running 25
years or something at that point, and then they had taken a
five-year hiatus, which for themwas like major.
(37:05):
This production, alive andKicking, was the first one back,
like we're not dead, and it wasan all-new cast of four actors
who had never done the showbefore, all new material, and so
it was a huge, you know,re-press opening and all the
bells and whistles and yeah, andthat just went really well and
(37:25):
I just really clicked withGerard and John the producer and
Harriet the producer and youknow, a couple years later they
called me back.
I did Spamilton and then acouple years later, like so
every couple years then they'vecalled me back and we've done so
.
Then I did Spamilton and then Idid the Next Generation and
then I did Forbidden Sondheim.
(37:45):
We did last summer and now,narrowly, we stole a song.
Speaker 6 (37:48):
Which kind of is playing again on Sondheim?
Speaker 3 (37:52):
But Sondheim was such a huge lover of Forbidden
Broadway and had a reallypersonal connection with Gerard.
They were friends and he wouldalways come to the show he came
to Alive and Kicking.
We've met him several times andhe's just always.
He loves art, he loves theaterand parody.
Is that Spoofing Sondheim isnot easy, right?
(38:15):
It's not Jingle.
Speaker 7 (38:16):
Bells, Mad Men.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Smells Like this is like to do a proper parody of a
Sondheim song.
Is pretty intense and Gerard'sjust a genius.
Speaker 6 (38:26):
Do you have like a favorite number that you've done
, and it doesn't have to be inthis iteration of it, like just
do you remember, remembersomething that stands out I do
all these like great I.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
I've done all these great numbers.
Gerard's written me so manyamazing numbers.
I did like a an end of therainbow number when tracy
bennett was playing judy garlandon broadway 14 years ago.
I did another judy number whenrenee zellweger played garland.
I've done just.
We did like a Mandy Patty.
(38:54):
Remember when they came backand did their duo show but sang
all these songs like 16 going on17.
Like it was just iconically.
It was like like those aregreat.
But I'm going to say of the, ofall of the incarnations, like
some of the standouts for me areactually the group numbers that
were the most collaborative.
(39:15):
So back in alive and kicking,we did this once number that had
, like, many different parts, itwas almost like a medley.
Remember the musical oncebecause I'm a geek so great and
that was like really fun to puttogether because it was really a
collaborative sort of, camefrom almost an improv and that
(39:37):
was really fun.
And then I got to say we do anoutsider's number in this
version.
It is like one of the most funI've had on stage.
Also, we do a cat's number inthis version.
That's different from it's likeof the new cats, you know, the
ballroom cat, it's just.
Oh, that's different from it'slike of the new cats, you know
the ballroom cat, it's just oh,that's right.
Speaker 6 (39:54):
Yeah, they reinvented it.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
I love, yes, I love.
I love taking center stage andbeing in the spotlight and doing
Judy or Patty or Barbara orAngela Lansbury.
But I mean to like, work off ofthe other actors that I've
become so close with is so funand I just, you know, I really
get a kick out of being on stagewith some of these people.
(40:18):
So I think in this one I thinkyou'll see in my face if those
of you who come see the show, Ilove the Outsiders.
It's hilarious.
Speaker 6 (40:29):
Do you ever?
I mean, you talked aboutStephen S sonheim having a
really great appreciation for itand kind of liking forbidden
broadway, but do you ever?
Do you ever feel bad making funof some of these folks because
I mean, let's face it, broadway,they take themselves a little
bit seriously a little bit tooseriously I've I had to
(40:49):
interview pat LuPone once and Iwas nervous.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Oh my God, I bet.
Speaker 6 (40:55):
I was about to die.
You know one of those peoplethat just made me like I could
interview anyone.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
but you mentioned her and I'm like Okay, well,
speaking of Patti, I'll tell youa quick Patti story.
There is a line that I say inthe show before my Patti number
which is actually verbatim whatshe said to me when I met her
and I was doing a show at 54Below, which for outside of New
York listeners, is like a under,it's the basement of Studio 54.
(41:23):
And it's like the premierBroadway cabaret space, right.
So people like Patti LuPone doshows there, and Lilius White
and Marilyn May and like allthese amazing people.
So I was doing the 930 show andPatti was doing the 7 o'clock
show and I'm just, I'm there allthe time, maybe like once a
month, doing these Broadwaysings, the greatest hits,
(41:44):
broadway sing share, whatever,and so I don't pay too much
attention to who's on the billbefore me.
But I was in my dressing roomgetting ready and I was like
that's Patti LuPone, that'sPatti LuPone.
And I came out and, like thefirst thing, I thought I was
like.
I was like I did a double takebecause I thought she was my mom
for a second and I waswondering what my mom was doing
(42:06):
there, because they really dolook a lot alike.
And I went up to her and I waslike.
I was like, oh my gosh, I justwant to introduce myself.
My name is Jenny Lee Stern andshe's like I'm Patti LuPone.
I was like, yes, I know.
And I was like I play you inForbidden Broadway.
I've played you in ForbiddenBroadway for like 15 years.
She goes Forbidden Broadway.
(42:26):
They're still doing ForbiddenBroadway.
They're still doing forbiddenBroadway.
And I was like what is this linereading?
Is this line reading like, wow,still relevant enough to be in
forbidden Broadway.
Or is it like, oh my God, giveit a rest.
Or is it like, wow, great forthem there's, but it didn't
matter, that was just the line.
Speaker 6 (42:47):
And oh no, just that is just like If I got that from
Patty I would be just like Iwould hold that just right there
.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
They're still doing Forbidden Broadway, like she's,
like good for you, good for youto be working on that.
Yeah, I was like okay.
Speaker 6 (43:04):
I always remember that one song.
They did a really early versionand then Forbidden Broadway.
I get a kick out of me.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Oh yeah, sure yeah.
But I mean to answer youroriginal question, like do you
feel bad?
I mean I will say, look, it isas sharp as ever, clever as ever
.
But I mean we have to evolvewith the times, right?
So there is, you have parodylicense, but everywhere in the
world we are sensitive totrigger warnings for people and
(43:34):
things like that.
You just you have to be or wewould be ostracized, right.
So I think it's toned down inthe meanness factor as opposed
to the past.
You know what I mean.
We're not commenting onpeople's weight, we're not
commenting on people's age,gender identity, sexual
orientation.
You know what I mean, like ifyou go back on people's age,
gender identity, sexualorientation.
You know what I mean, like ifyou go back into the vaults, you
(43:57):
know it's just surprising, likenot so long ago, what things
were universally like okay tosay, and the things that now you
know we're more everyone ismore sensitive to.
But you know we've evolved withthe times on that one.
So I would I'd say it's lessmean but more clever, witty,
(44:17):
it's more of a comment, you know, on the shows themselves,
rather than like and I'm too oldto play this part or I'm too
fat to fit in my whatever itused to be, and it's.
I love that because it's likechallenges, gerard, and it
challenges us to just okay,raise the bar and, like you
don't have to hit below the belt, to still be funny and still be
(44:40):
clever and still find a rhyme.
So I can't say that I feel badevery once in a while, like when
I run into somebody that I'vespoofed.
You know what I?
Speaker 6 (44:51):
mean.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
More like a more of a peer than, let's say, patti
LuPone.
Right, like if I ran into MeganHilty the other day and I was
like and she had then come andseen the show and I think maybe
she had forgotten that I haddone a smash parody of the TV
show 12 years ago and I think ifI went back and listened to
(45:12):
that with her in the same roomI'd probably be getting like the
cold sweats.
Or we did a Moulin Rouge parodyand I ran into Robin Hurter,
like something like that.
You do think for a second likewhat did I say, what did I do?
Was that okay?
But you know, I think everybodywho is spoofed, especially like
a Megan Hilty or Robin Hurd ora Danny Burstein, like it's like
(45:35):
being parodied on SaturdayNight Live, like how cool, like
hello, that means you're iconic,that means you've made it to a
point in your career whereForbidden Broadway can spoof you
.
Like that, you're spoofable.
Oh my gosh, I would take thatany day.
I would just be just an honor.
Speaker 6 (45:57):
Just an would take that any day.
I would just be just an honor,just an honor to be parodied.
You know what I mean exactly,oh my gosh.
No, it's like a sign that youmade it somehow.
If they, yeah, took note enoughto make fun of you.
But now you do other shows too,though you do like serious, oh
yeah, broadway shows.
You're not.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
You're not just a slave to making fun of no, no,
I'm not a slave to the parodyand I'm not a slave to.
I mean, I do play patsy Clinein, always Patsy Cline all over
the country, which still is animpression, but not slapstick.
Speaker 6 (46:19):
That was developed here in Houston.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Really, yeah, yes, that's amazing.
Speaker 6 (46:24):
It was developed right here.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
I love that.
It's a hometown favorite.
Oh, that's wonderful.
Speaker 6 (46:36):
And then I played sally bowls in a very dark
cabaret.
Can you do?
Speaker 3 (46:37):
cabaret and it not be dark.
I'm sure some do, because somehigh schools I just saw it at a
like a high school do it in acommunity center and was like
appalled but I would be appalled.
I was like what am I?
What I feel?
I was like is this test?
Am I supposed to be likewalking out?
This is so inappropriate, butyeah, but I mean, like we just
like really went there sort ofand this was before it came back
(46:58):
to Broadway, when we just sortof had the Olivier Awards to go
off of.
But like I loved that.
Take on just this unhingedSally Done that I mean, yeah,
I've done like pretty much everyin my career.
I started when I was 11 yearsold playing annie at the bucks
kind of playhouse and you know,it's just been going.
It's like everything fromanybody's in west side story to
(47:22):
roxy heart, to, you know, patsyklein, to sally bulls and mrs
love it, to tanya and mama mia,to cats and Seussical.
I've done it all.
I love it all.
I mean I just love being onstage, I love embodying a new
character and this is just kindof another skill that I was
blessed to sort of have fall inmy lap and now it's just become
(47:44):
really like a part of who I am.
It's really been.
I still don't consider myself asinger and I still don't
consider myself an impressionist, like I consider myself an
actor who is called upon doeswhatever I need to do, that
services the show.
You know what I mean and peopleare like you're insane.
I'm like, well, that's just howI feel.
Like I don't feel like someinsane singer who that's my
(48:05):
number one craft Like I playPatsy Cline and she's a singer,
so I will sing like Patsy Cline.
Some of the stuff that you'llsee me do in this version of the
show is like extremely athletic, extremely dancey and all these
things.
And like how long have you beendancing?
And like I have been dancingsince I was a kid, but I also
don't consider myself a dancer.
(48:26):
Like I would never dance in theensemble of some big Broadway
show.
That I mean obviously that's alie because I have.
So I don't know what I'mtalking about, but I don't like
identify like that.
I'm like, oh well, I'm an actorand this role dances.
I guess I don't know.
Speaker 6 (48:41):
I get the sense that you're very versatile.
I mean, that's obviously whyyou're doing so well with
Forbidden Broadway, because itis like a blender you have to
like go to like within like amillion miles a minute.
I mean, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Well, that's the hardest part, I mean the
backstage part with the changesand the wigs and the costumes,
and and then you're like, ohwait, oh, maybe I need to like
lower my palate, like you don'thave the chance to prepare.
And what happens with forbiddenBroadway?
We just had rehearsal this weekweek because it's a little bit
of a new version of the show.
We have like a new person andwe're working things out, and so
(49:16):
the order of the show is veryimportant for flow, but also
because, oh, if Jenny's doingAnnie and she's doing Sweeney
Todd, then we need something inthe middle of it because she
needs to change or whatever.
We were sort of putting the showtogether the other day and I
had to go from Angela Lansburyright, well, I had to go from
Little Red Riding Hood intoAngela Lansbury, into Lindsay
(49:39):
Mendez, and I started trying tosing Lindsay Mendez and like the
sound was not coming outbecause I had just been like,
and then you're trying to belike legit sort of mix belt
American musical theater.
So yeah, it's a wild superniche skill and that's kind of
(50:00):
why there's only like maybe 20core people in all of New York
City that have really done it,like you know, consistently.
Speaker 6 (50:08):
I'm so mad because when I was growing up, when I
was a young man and I wasstudying theater and things like
that, I had a theater teacherthat told me like you were such
a great mimic, you cannot listento any cast recordings.
Because you can, you can do it,and I'm like I should have done
this.
I should have found it in.
Broadway dreams.
Speaker 3 (50:29):
I mean do it whatever , produce it, produce it, write
and produce it.
I mean yeah.
Speaker 6 (50:35):
I'll talk to Gerard when we're in town.
You should.
No, no problem at all, okay,well, so let's get a little bit
personal and, because we're onQueer Voices, we always like to
talk a little bit about theLGBTQIA plus community.
Yeah, I love it, and do youidentify with that?
Speaker 3 (50:51):
I sure do so.
I call myself an elder lesbian.
Speaker 6 (50:54):
Which I love.
Speaker 3 (50:55):
Femtop cougar.
But well, I guess take thecougar out of it now, maybe.
Yeah, I mean, we're good.
Now I finally sort of settledinto like my own age bracket.
I was tired of you know,telling jokes about.
You know golden girls are backto the future and people not
understanding what I'm talkingabout and I was like, oh my gosh
.
Speaker 6 (51:16):
If I was a teen in trouble.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
I could have birthed you.
Speaker 6 (51:19):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (51:21):
Yes, I'm an elder lesbian.
I'm a single mom of threebeautiful daughters.
Speaker 6 (51:25):
How do you manage that when you're on tour?
Speaker 3 (51:34):
I was going to ask you because I was like picturing
like you have like somewonderful spouse or partner
that's going to take care ofthem while you're on tour.
But what do you do?
I do have a wonderful partner,but she is a cardiovascular
pediatric ICU nurse.
Speaker 6 (51:41):
Oh yeah, Not demanding at all.
Speaker 3 (51:42):
Five times fast, you know, just a really lighthearted
kind of career.
So she'll actually be out in LAfor the whole time I'm on tour
working at CHLA.
But yeah, so I but I do have awonderful mother who helps me a
lot.
And also my oldest daughter issix.
She's going to be 16.
So I have a 15 year old, a 14year old and a six year old, and
(52:06):
you're in trouble.
Speaker 6 (52:09):
I would tour too.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
It's, it's, it's a lot of emotion there's a lot of
emotion, there's a lot ofemotions, there's a lot of
emotions.
The feminine energy in thishouse is absolutely wild.
I wouldn't have it any otherway.
Yeah, so I really never toured.
This is such a specialexception and it just works out
where I can like go out for fivedays, come back for three days,
(52:33):
go out for four days.
There's one.
We have one date in Detroit.
It's like one day and I'mliterally flying out that
morning and flying back at 6 amthe next morning because my
daughter's in her school playand I can't miss it.
Speaker 6 (52:45):
What is she going to do?
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (52:47):
Well, my daughters are very experienced and they
work at a community theater nearhere and do their roles.
So at school she's in theensemble of Cinderella and she's
you know, she's anunderclassman and she's paying
her dues and you know we'resupporting her on those small
parts.
You know, just small actorsshe's doing wonderfully and yeah
(53:09):
, so I just make it work.
You know what I mean.
She's doing wonderfully andyeah, so I just make it work.
You know what I mean.
Thankfully, although obviously Itake everything I do very
seriously when I go to work.
I am not a cardiovascularpediatric ICU nurse, you know
what I mean.
I am not a neurosurgeon, I amnot a rocket scientist.
So it's like, luckily,thankfully, wonderfully, I get
to go to work and sing and danceand make funny faces and make
(53:32):
people forget their troubles fortwo hours and hang out with
some of my great friends who dothe show too, and so we just
make it work.
And you know, the truth of thematter is there's plenty of
parents especially dads, I guesswho, like they have to travel
for work and they're gone for amonth at a time doing business
in Tokyo.
(53:53):
I don't know what people do,but I'm sure some people do
things like that.
Yeah, we're just going to makeit work.
This is how I make money, thisis how I take care of my family,
and so make it work.
Speaker 6 (54:03):
So you think that the three of them you were saying
that they're pretty involved intheater, are they?
Do you think they're going tofollow after you?
Speaker 3 (54:08):
God, I hope not.
Speaker 6 (54:10):
I hope she's talking to me to be a pediatric nurse.
Speaker 3 (54:13):
No, that's bad too.
Look, I want them to dowhatever they want to do, but I
want them to be financially free, I want them to be in loving
relationships and be supportedby whoever they choose to take
as a partner, and I just wantthem to be able to have as many
experiences they can look, andif that's theater, then then
(54:36):
that's theater.
You know what I mean, but theworld is just so wild right now,
so who knows?
You know what I mean.
I'm happy that they have it now, because obviously it's like a
wonderful sense of community.
It's still a place that hasn'treally changed in terms of
acceptance, inclusivity.
That's what makes being in thetheater so special, right, think
(54:56):
about all of us that were inour high school theater programs
.
Right, what a beautiful placeto be.
Right, I'd rather be backstageat the drama club than I don't
know.
Speaker 6 (55:09):
I would rather be doing cabaret in high school
than going out on the footballfield.
Yeah, and there's some peoplethat wouldn't club than like I
don't know.
I would rather be doing cabaretin high school than going out
on the football field.
Speaker 3 (55:13):
Yeah, and there's some people that wouldn't, but
it's just like, especially forqueer youth.
It remains a place where, like,that is just not a thing, it's
just come as you are and that'ssort of what theaters or become
what you want to be.
Exactly.
Speaker 6 (55:30):
That's the key.
Speaker 3 (55:31):
Exactly honey, right, become what you want to be.
Exactly that's, that's the key.
Exactly, honey, right, becauseyou just get the chance to, like
you can express yourself and ifyou're unsure or if you're
trying things out or whatever,right, like nobody's gonna say
no one's gonna bat a lash aboutputting on a lash.
You want to put a lash on,let's go.
I love that.
That sort of never reallychanged, you know what I mean,
(55:53):
since, like the beginning oftimes, the beginning of theater.
So I'm glad that they have thatfor now.
They are so incredibly talentedthat they should be doing it
because they definitely spreadjoy.
But yeah, I mean, if theywanted to have like a really
(56:14):
solid, fun career or I don'tknow, design an app or something
and then sell it and then golive in bora bora and like live
their best life, like, I wouldbe supportive of that as well.
Speaker 6 (56:19):
So well, we cannot wait to see you in forbidden
broadway.
I am so stoked that this iscoming to houston.
I've been a fan since probablythe 80s, but anyway it is going
to be at the Hobby Center April24th through the 26th so excited
.
Jenny Lee Stern, I know you'rejust going to make me laugh.
Speaker 3 (56:39):
Will we see you at the show?
Will you be able to get out?
Oh my, gosh?
Speaker 6 (56:42):
Yes, of course.
Speaker 3 (56:43):
Hey, well, make sure you tell me when you're coming
and you know.
Speaker 6 (56:46):
Yeah, and I'm going to bring Patti LuPone Just
kidding, she's going to be myplus one and they're still doing
this damn thing.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
This has been queer voices, heard on KPFT Houston
and as a podcast available fromseveral podcasting sources.
Check our webpage queervoicesorg for more information.
Queer Voices executive produceris Brian Levinka, deborah
Moncrief-Bell is co-producer,brett Cullum and David
Mendoza-Druzman are contributors.
(57:27):
The News Wrap segment is partof another podcast called this
Way Out, which is produced inLos Angeles.
Speaker 5 (57:35):
Some of the material in this program has been edited
to improve clarity and runtime.
This program does not endorseany political views or animal
species.
Views, opinions andendorsements are those of the
participants and theorganizations they represent.
In case of death, pleasediscontinue use and discard
remaining product.
Speaker 1 (57:48):
For Queer Voices.
I'm Glenn Holt.
Hello everybody, this is Queer Voices, a podcast
version of a broadcast radioshow that's been on the air in
Houston, Texas, for severaldecades.
This week, DavidMendoza-Duruzman talks with
Joshua Burford, co-founder andco-executive director of
Invisible Histories, talkingabout their virtual community
(00:22):
education event on May 14th.
Invisible Histories is aregional nonprofit focused on
research and preservation of thediverse queer and trans history
of the American South.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
We are still about the business of preservation and
accessibility to queer Southernhistory.
That is our centerpiece, thatis our goal, that is our desire.
What has changed for us is thespeed at which we're having to
collect, because things are soat risk now.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
It's National Poetry Month and Debra Moncrief-Bell
has a conversation with BlackWildflower.
She is the winner of the 2025Hear Her Voice National Slam
event, and Brett Cullum talkswith Jenny Lee Stern, an actress
who is coming to Houston withForbidden Broadway at the Hobby
(01:14):
Center from April 24th throughthe 26th.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
I have been a member of the family, as they say, for
about 14 years, did my firstproduction about 13, 14 years
ago.
It was called ForbiddenBroadway, alive and Kicking.
So Forbidden Broadway has sortof been continuously running 25
years or something at that point, and then they had taken a
five-year hiatus, which for themwas like major.
(01:40):
This production, alive andKicking, was the first one back.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Queer Voices starts now.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
I'm Davis Mendoza-Duruzman.
I'm speaking today with JoshuaBurford, an award-winning
historian, archivist, educatorand co-founder and co-executive
director of Invisible Histories,a regional nonprofit focused on
the preservation, access andresearch of the diverse queer
and trans history of theAmerican South.
At a time when LGBTQ plushistory is being banned,
(02:11):
censored or erased, his work isa much needed act of resistance.
Welcome to Queer Voices, joshua.
Thank you so much for having me.
I wanted to start off by askingwhat inspired you to co-found
Invisible Histories with yourcolleague, dr Megan Sullivan,
and why center specifically inthe South.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I had been living in Charlotte, North Carolina, I was
teaching at the universitythere and I had been working on
an archive of LGBT experience inCharlotte with the city,
experience in Charlotte with thecity and in 2015, Megan, who at
the time was working at auniversity in Alabama, called me
and said hey, would you want tocome down and give a talk?
And so, after the talk was over, we were talking together.
(02:53):
She said you know what do youthink about the idea of doing
the project you're working on inNorth Carolina but here in
Alabama?
And I was like I think that's agreat idea.
I think both of us were kind ofsick and tired of higher ed.
We wanted to break, we wantedindependence and we wanted to be
able to do our work in a waythat we were able to control
better than we had been in ourjobs in higher education.
(03:14):
We had this idea you know what,if we just took a shot and
worked on a statewide LGBTarchives project and let's do it
in our home state?
I grew up in Alabama in a towncalled Anniston, and she grew up
in North Alabama in theAppalachian Mountains in a place
called Sand Mountain, and so weknew Alabama pretty well.
We both went to graduate schoolat the University of Alabama
(03:35):
and so we thought we're going todo a project like this, let's
do it somewhere where we haveconnections.
Let's run this project likeother Southerners have run
projects in the past, which isworking your networks and really
building that kind of trust.
It was the kind of job that weboth really wanted to do, but
also it was just it was time,and so we thought hell, let's
take a shot and see if we canmake this work.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Well, that's incredible, and the rest is
history.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, it's wild to think that we picked up our
first collection like almosteight years ago.
I mean, so much has happenedsince then, not just for us, but
like for everybody.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
And I did want to address the rainbow elephant in
the room, which is we're livingin a time when LGBTQ plus
history and visibility are underthreat.
So how is Invisible Historiesresponding to these challenges
and how have you all beenresponding to these challenges?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
And how can communities support with this
resistance?
I don't know that ourfundamental work has changed.
We are still about the businessof preservation and
accessibility to queer Southernhistory.
That is our centerpiece, thatis our goal, that is our desire.
What has changed for us is onethe speed at which we're having
to collect, because things areso at risk.
(04:49):
Now there's so many offices allaround the country that are
closing in universities, peopleare losing funding and closing
community centers, and werealized at the end of last year
that if there was ever going tobe any hope of bringing these
places back, we were going tohave to start collecting at a
much higher speed, and so westarted in December with a
hackathon.
We had like 300 some oddvolunteers, and we went in and
(05:12):
started downloading and savingas many LGBT websites in the
South as we could Organizations,university groups and orgs data
that was being kept at thenational level.
We were backing everything up,and we did that again in January
, and so to date, we've backedup almost 980 websites and saved
(05:32):
over 2,000 documents from theseat-risk places.
We also realized really quicklythat this wasn't just a thing
happening in the American South,and so we decided that we would
open up our DEI efforts to therest of the country to see how
much we could possibly save.
And so we've really beenthinking hard about what it
means for us to do our work asan independent org, and so we've
(05:54):
made the bold to provide aneven safer environment for
people and to empower people inthis time of hopelessness to
really stay involved, stayconnected and keep doing the
work.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
And that leads to my next question of the permanent
archive sets open in Charlottein 2026.
What stories or collections areyou most excited for people to
experience that you can sharewith us, and what do you hope
the archive will mean for thecommunity?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I mean, it's such a hard thing to ask an archivist
to talk about their favoritecollection, because there's so
many things in our, in ourpermanent collection that I
think people should be excitedabout.
We have a growing collection oflesbian southern history, you
know land movements, movements,activism, music festivals,
things that I'm so pumped forpeople to be able to come and
(06:49):
experience.
These collections are physicaland digital, so we have a ton of
video that people are going tobe able to watch.
We have a growing collection ofqueer people of color in the
American South.
We have new partnerships comingup with some Latinx groups,
some Black-led queerorganizations in Atlanta and
Jackson, and this history isjust so.
(07:11):
It's not just that, it'sinspiring.
It's so amazing to think ofwhat people were able to do with
so much less technology, somuch less communication options.
So I want people to getinspired and I think that's what
we hope that the physicallocation will be, you know, not
just a home for materials, butalso a landing spot.
We want people to be in thatspace with us, have meetings in
(07:33):
that space for organizations,bring students, bring community
people, you know, have a self,have celebrations.
There's so many orgs in theAmerican South that are now
queer orgs, that are turning 50,that are turning 60.
And we want that power space tobe a place for that to happen.
Also, let people in thecommunity imagine what we could
be doing in that space as a realpartnership.
(07:54):
I think to me is reallyexciting.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
And when I'm not contributing for Queer Voices, I
consider myself a communityorganizer here in Houston,
coalition building with numerousLGBTQ plus led and serving
organizations here in Houston,and just hearing this is
inspiring, and learning moreabout invisible histories is
inspiring.
I'm curious if you havesomething that you would like
(08:18):
organizers or people interestedin getting more involved in
their communities and organizing, in getting more involved in
their communities and organizingwhat's something that maybe
there is a bit of distancebetween us and the permanent
archive, both in terms of timeand location, but how can
organizers and people wanting toget involved learn more through
Invisible Histories and whatcan we take away from it?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
One of the things that we offer.
In fact, we have somethingcoming up in May May the 14th
we're doing a free onlinecommunity event, 6 pm Central,
and it's basically anintroduction to Invisible
Histories, and so we want peopleto come to that event and sit
down and listen to us talk abouthow we are doing our work,
because we want people toemulate what we're doing.
(09:00):
We want people to turn to theirown communities, find where the
elders are, record and talk tothem.
If you're in an organization,where are your records?
How are you preserving those?
How are you backing things up?
We want everyone, in their ownway, to be a community archivist
because, to your point, you'rein your own community, much
closer than we are.
Even if we were in Texas let'ssay we were in Austin you're
(09:23):
still much closer to the Houstoncommunity than we would be if
we were there.
We need people to be lookinginside their own communities,
seeing what is there of ourhistory and then doing whatever
they can to preserve physicaldocuments, backup digital
documents and really start theprocess, and so people can come
to this event on the 14th of May.
You can also request we dotrainings for organizations and
(09:45):
community organizers on how tostart the process of preserving
your documents.
But, in all honesty, everythingwe do is on our website Like,
take some time, read, you know,the materials we've put out.
We've got zines about how to docommunity archiving, memorials
for people who've passed, how toarchive political campaigns and
all of that is for queer peoplein the South, really anywhere
(10:08):
to you and so make use of us andreach out.
I mean, you can reach out to usat Contact InvisibleHistory
anytime and we're happy to talkto people about what we can do
to partner, because this is acommunity initiative and we want
the community to be as involvedas they can.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
I love turning the current rhetoric of trying to
erase our history on its head.
If you're like you want toerase our history, We'll archive
more history, even more thanwe've ever done in the past.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
We have a saying here that archiving is resistance.
You know this idea of anadministration that is trying to
wipe us all out of our ownhistory books they're taking
down our monuments.
They're taking down ourlanguage right.
The act of physically archivingis an act of both individual,
political and social resistanceto the idea that we could be
wiped out, and so every singlebox of things we save is a big
(10:58):
no to anyone that wants to getrid of it.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
I love that.
And just for my last question,I've been really appreciative of
our time speaking.
Invisible Histories worksacross about 13 southern states.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
That's correct.
Yeah, we have a network calledQueer History South and so it's
a virtual network.
We have nearly a thousandpeople involved in some aspect
of community history organizing,history organizing and then we
also run a conference every twoyears.
The next one is in 2026, theQueer History South conference
where people can come meet otherorganizers, other historians
(11:31):
and learn, you know, aboutthings that are happening in
other parts of the South.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
I'm sure throughout the history of Invisible
Histories, there have been a lotof powerful moments and stories
and conversations that you'vehad, and you mentioned asking an
archivist to share theirfavorites.
It's probably difficult, but Ido love to end my interviews
with like a personal connection,a story, if you have one, just
a powerful moment throughoutyour work that's really stayed
(11:58):
with you.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Oh man, I mean, I just get to know the best people
in my work, you know, likeelders and young people who are
all resisting.
I'll tell you two quick things.
The item that I'm the mostconnected to in our office is a
diary from the Second World Warthat we received.
The guy was from Alabama.
He wrote in this diary thewhole time he was in the
(12:21):
European theater.
And then he returns to Alabama,realizes that he wants to be
actively out and queer, and sohe moves to California.
He never came back to Alabama.
When he passed away, his nephew,who is a straight guy, was so
had such a close relationshipwith his uncle that he did not
want his uncle's story, hislegacy, to be forgotten.
(12:44):
And so he gathered up thisdiary, photos, testimonials, and
then he donated all of that toInvisible History so that his
uncle's legacy and that is sucha powerful thing to happen.
The other thing, if you don'tmind me mentioning, is at
Creative History South last yearin Charlotte, we gave people an
opportunity to network withinthe groups.
(13:05):
I found out a few months agothat a group of young activists,
mostly queer people of color,met at our conference and they
had been meeting every monthsince the conference ended and
so we had no idea that was evengoing on.
It just happened naturally, andnow that group is meeting and
starting their own cohort ofpeople in Georgia and other
(13:27):
parts of the South that areworking together as young
activists, and that is justawesome.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I was speaking today with Joshua Burford, co-founder
and co-executive director ofInvisible Histories.
Join them on Wednesday, may14th 2025, at 6 pm Central Time,
because Invisible Histories ishosting an online info session
about their LGBTQ plus communityarchive, and be on the lookout
for the opening of theirpermanent archive next year.
Thank you so much for joiningus on Queer Voices.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Did you know that KPFT is completely listener
funded?
There are no underwriters, soit's up to all of us to pay for
the freedom to say what you hearhere on Queer Voices and on
this station in general.
That means you participate inour programming just by
listening and also by pledgingyour support.
(14:18):
Please do that now by going tothe KPFT website and clicking on
the red Donate Now button, andplease mention queer voices when
you do.
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (14:32):
The night is long and the path is dark.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Look to the sky for what it's called.
The dawn will come.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
This is Queer Voices.
Speaker 7 (14:53):
This is Deborah Moncrief Bell and it's April,
and that means it's NationalPoetry Month, so guess what
we're going to be talking about?
Poetry, of course, and joiningus is Black Wallflower.
She blew us away when sheshared some of her work at the
summit that was held at theMontrose Center earlier this
(15:14):
year.
That was held at the MontroseCenter earlier this year, and
she's joining us to talk aboutthe importance of National
Poetry Month and also her ownwork.
She's a three-timeaward-winning lead performance
etiquette instructor, anacclaimed poet, host executive
producer, affirmation goddessand published author.
(15:35):
Two of her works are On BruisedKnees and Rooted.
Welcome to Queer Voices.
Let's talk just a little bitfirst of all about National
Poetry Month.
Can you explain Well?
Speaker 8 (15:50):
it's exciting to be able to talk about how important
poetry and expression is to ourcommunity.
So National Poetry Month is theopportunity for all individuals
to express themselves throughart and that being, with their
voice or for the page.
And what a lot of individualsdo is they write each day of the
(16:15):
month.
I've seen collaborations thatlook like a poem that starts one
day and then by the 30th daythey've got an entire poem, but
that is broken down intoindividual poems by the day.
So people do some fun,energetic things, but it gives
the opportunity just to getcreative in the work and
(16:35):
celebrate expression.
Speaker 7 (16:43):
Poetry seems to be a form of literature that really
gets in touch with emotions, notquite like any other thing, and
I think that's part of why it'sappealing to many of us Also.
We love songs, and songs arerooted in poetry.
Tell me a little bit about thisslam poetry thing.
What exactly is that?
What does it mean?
Speaker 8 (17:05):
Now we're talking about something that I love so
much Slam poetry is competitivepoetry.
So what that looks like is youhave, like your page poetry,
which is the opportunity towrite and express yourself, and
then you have the opportunitythen say those words from spoken
word to now in a competitivearena.
And I have gotten theopportunity to compete across
(17:28):
the nation.
And so we have competitionsthat can look like citywide
competitions.
You know something you dolocally at a coffee shop, or you
can have an experience whereyou go to something like the
Woman of the World Poetry Slam,which is international and
there's women from all overwomen identifying poets, and we
come and celebrate sharing ourtruth but competing.
(17:50):
So that looks like five randomjudges out of the audience.
This started many, many yearsago in Chicago and now has
progressed to the point where wecontinually get an opportunity
to do it and it's fun becauseyou get paid to express yourself
.
So those five random judgesjudge you and then whatever sets
the mood for the night they canget paid, sometimes up to
(18:11):
thousands of dollars.
So it's super exciting and justan opportunity to kind of
gamble your expression.
Speaker 7 (18:17):
You won the In Her Voice 2025 competition.
Speaker 8 (18:21):
I was wondering about that, about how do you manage
to go all over the country anddo this, so it's good to know
that people are being paid fortheir work yes, absolutely so
many ways that you can get paidfor your expression, and this is
a fun way that I love.
I started when I was 15 yearsold, and why it was so important
(18:42):
to go to an experience like InHer Voice is because it started
back in Tampa, where I'm from, aspace for women to express
themselves but also receive theresources that are necessary to
say, hey, poetry is therapeutic,but we also have other
resources that you can grab ontoas well at the type of events
(19:05):
that they have, and so it wasjust very exciting that they had
this event and they opened itup to the nation, and so you had
to apply and audition online,and then they chose the poets
that they felt moved the messagethey wanted, which was
empowerment and being able totell your experience of healing,
conquering and growing throughlife.
(19:28):
But I think the most importantthing to me about that
competition yeah, you get to win$1,000.
Yeah, you get to get a trophy.
But it was a young lady whocame in second place.
She said I've been watching youthree years ago and I saw how
vulnerable you are and it justexcited me to know that I can
tell my story and that's mygreatest win tonight, so thank
(19:50):
you for bringing that up.
It always reminds me to begrateful of expression and to be
vulnerable and share work.
So, yes, it was such a funexperience.
Speaker 7 (20:00):
You're a proud member of the Smoke Slam Poetry Team,
so exactly how does that workhaving a team which is currently
ranked number one in thesouthern region?
Speaker 8 (20:12):
Yes, it is a pleasure and a true honor to have
coaching from Ebony Stewart.
She is a poetry legend when itcomes to Houston, austin, just
Texas period.
And so what happened is we alldecided to share our work and it
was in front of an audience.
Again, you have those judgesand they choose what it looks
(20:35):
like and the team will look like, and so we all were able to
come together, pull our creativework from all different parts
Like we're all from differentplaces and then she's able to
coach us.
What that looks like is fivedifferent individuals who are
coming together and tellingtheir stories, and it's so
beautiful because we get anopportunity to do something
really special.
(20:56):
That, I think, makes it fun tobe on a team.
Not only do you get to writeyour story and weave your
stories together, but you get tospeak in a way that maybe you
didn't get the opportunity toput forth as just one voice.
You get to add choreo.
It's just super fun and it hastruly been a great outlet for
(21:17):
myself.
So, yes, we went all the way tosouthern pride and we won and
it was just amazing.
So that's like on every poet'sbucket list every slam poet.
Speaker 7 (21:26):
it's really different than just reading a poem, which
in itself can be quitesomething.
You can read it and and read itmany times over years and it
will touch you each time.
But in the kind of poetryyou're presenting it's actually
a performance, so it brings in alot of different elements.
(21:48):
Like you said, there's evenchoreography involved.
Houston has been blessed withquite a few poetry groups,
opportunities for people to doreadings or to work on their
craft, and so I find that veryexciting.
You said you kind of gotstarted when you were 15 years
(22:09):
old.
Speaker 8 (22:11):
I'm going to be honest, I started actually
writing much younger, abouteight years old.
We had something, because I'mfrom Florida, so we had
something called the FCAT rights, which is similar to the
writing test you guys have here,and so what was very unique
about that was I wrote such agreat essay that they showed it
(22:32):
around to every student as anexample for the test in the
county.
And my mom she saw that as amoment to say wait, she's got a
gift here.
She bought me my first diary inthe fourth grade and I began to
write, and I began to writepoetry, and it was when I was 15
, I went to Howard W Blake,which is a performing arts high
school, and I started to learnspoken word, which is like how
(22:55):
you're saying.
It's the difference of not onlyam I writing my emotions, now I
have to embody it, so it's notjust about what you're reading,
it's about what you feel.
And so it opened my world tochallenge me, to think about
what parts of my story that Iwanted to connect with other
people, and from there it hadjust grown.
(23:17):
I was introduced to slam poetryby Walter B Jennings, who is a
mentor for myself and many otheryoung people in Tampa, florida,
and so it just blossomed fromthere.
So I'm so grateful for the giftand I'm honestly I pay tribute
to my mother for just seeing itas an opportunity for me to be
able to express myself.
Speaker 7 (23:39):
There's also this idea of other poets who you're
yes, you're in competition, butyou're also supporting one
another.
Speaker 8 (23:48):
Absolutely.
I will tell you, my greatestgift is having the opportunity
to sit down in someone's livingroom and hear their story.
And I mean whether, whateveremotion it comes out of being
able to sit and be a thoughtpartner and help someone work
through such a challenging issue, and being able to translate
(24:10):
that into a space where we feelsafe to say the things maybe we
didn't get a chance to say toour our family members or our
friends, or it just gives you anopportunity to build community,
and that is truly the greatestgift, greater than any trophy or
any award.
It's those moments, like theyoung poet I was telling you,
mina, said to me it gives me adrive to be vulnerable.
(24:33):
That's what those work roomslook like and it's so amazing to
know.
Man, this poem came from aliving room and five of us are
up here now telling our truthabout being black and being in
america and and having theseemotions balled up, or or being
queer and not knowing what thatlooks like at 30.
Right?
Just so many different, funways to experiment with your
(24:53):
expression.
Speaker 7 (24:55):
You can really get in touch with yourself.
Also, craft it in such a waythat you hit upon the
commonality of thread, I guessyou would say, of how that exact
feeling or that life event isrelatable to so many other
people.
You think it's very personal,and it is, but then when you
(25:19):
express it and others hear theirwords, the reason that it
resonates is because it'srelatable.
Speaker 8 (25:26):
I think that the greatest misperception is that,
because I'm a poet, I alwayswill know how to express myself.
I actually have a challengebefore I get on stage, sometimes
, because people see me when Iget on stage, sometimes because
people see me when I'm on thestage and they're like oh my God
, you're resilient and you tolda story that I've always had
locked inside.
I mean, I wasn't able to, and Ithink what people don't get an
opportunity to know or see isthat it takes a journey.
(25:50):
Sometimes I've been writing onsomething for five years and I'm
just getting it out.
Something unique about what yousaid is just that opportunity to
push forward and buildcommunity and say you know what?
This is something that has tobe shown to the world and has to
give others maybe a mirror.
Maybe it's not their exact samestory, but maybe it inspires
(26:12):
them to say I've got somethingto say too, and I think that
expression is something that weneed.
I needed that as a young person.
There's no difference from meand someone who ended up in a
really bad situation.
Besides that, I had theopportunity to express myself
and build community, and that'sjust me speaking truly from the
heart.
Speaker 7 (26:33):
Speaking from the heart and speaking truth to
power.
Speaker 8 (26:37):
My greatest power, I tell, and I give again that
honor to my mother.
It was finding my voice andeven to this day.
It's a beautiful journeybecause you're writing changes
as you change in so manydifferent layers of life.
Speaker 7 (27:11):
This is Deborah Moncrief Bell and we're talking
National Poetry Month.
With Black Wildflower, anaward-winning poet.
A slamrose Center at the summitthat we had blew us away.
We were in awe.
That was how powerful it was.
Do you have something that youcould share with the listeners
of Queer Voices?
Speaker 8 (27:29):
Absolutely, and I would like to share that poem
Vibrant.
I would love to share that withyou all, if that's all right.
There's a phenomenon birthedwhen light enters a water
droplet, the light bends,reflecting off the inside,
separating its componentsbetween wavelengths and colors.
(27:49):
When the light exits thedroplet, it is born as a rainbow
.
And I've asked many men whatwould you do if your son was
born a rainbow?
And they say I would never wantmy son to be gay, as if that
was only a choice that theydidn't want them to make, that
(28:12):
they didn't want their sons tobe vibrant, as if that was only
for their daughters, as if boysshould be boys and not so
feminine, as if exuding feminineenergy was a cause of weakness.
One guy said he'd rather killhis son than watch it rise.
Why do death and rainbow sharethe same same womb?
(28:35):
Isn't black the intensity ofall colors collaborating?
Someone once said they'd rathertheir son be a murderer than
for him to be gay.
Rather he take someone else'slife than to live his own.
So I wonder what they'd sayabout my son if he was born a
rainbow baby, which is a baby?
That is a lot that is bornafter a mischild or loss, loss
(29:01):
of child.
Two days after I found her, Iwas pregnant.
The father told me he couldnever be in love with me.
The next day, a rosy red rivercrawled from in between my
thighs.
I have never felt more blue.
Insomnia colors my eyes red andI have never.
I have never felt so blue.
But this, this is the secondchild that I've lost, and
(29:23):
straight men have told me thatthey'd rather kill their son
when my womb has already carriedso much death.
Isn't it more important to loveyour child than to never get the
chance at all?
Even if my son is born gay,when his body exits mine, it
will be the birth of a rainbow,and I'll assure him that black
boys, black boys, can be lively.
(29:46):
They can be soft, gentle, free.
So live loud, love loud, laughloud.
It's okay to see your mother inyour reflection too, cause
what's a man without feminineenergy, colorless?
And if they try, if they try tobe violent with my son because
(30:07):
his smile is painted violent, ifdull men try to dim him, tell
him he is too black boy to bearluminosity.
I'll assure him to dance,darling dance, like yesterday.
It's jealous to watch you.
You are my rainbow baby.
I have already dug Through thestorms of my depression.
My son, you are my rainbow baby.
(30:29):
You don't have to wait forsomeone to see how much of a
bold miracle and phenomenon youare.
So even if Even if my son isgay, I will love all the shine
in his curiosity for him to be ablack boy.
I would be grateful just tohave him alive.
Speaker 7 (30:50):
That is so powerful and and and so true.
Thank you so much for sharingthat with us.
Do you have any other poem thatyou would like to share?
Speaker 8 (31:01):
Yeah, I would be open to sharing another poem, and
thank you so much for speakingto that as well.
It is hard to be able toexpress such vulnerable work
sometimes, but it's needed, andso something else I'd like to
share is a poem called For theGods.
And so something else I'd liketo share is a poem called For
the Gods.
I still find myself hanging inthe closet doorway trying to
(31:22):
pick the right mood.
Sort the bag of bones beneaththe bed to get ready can be a
grieving ritual, but I am morethan just a pattern of my prick
past.
I'm unfolding myself.
From becoming someone else'sdirty laundry, I decided I'm not
dressing up my depressionanymore.
I'm an androgynous blend ofbutton-ups and bralettes, chunky
(31:51):
heels and oversized hoodie.
Feels I walk into the room likeGod sent me here.
It's not my clothing thatcaptures the eye, it's my
spiritual aesthetic.
It's not my clothing thatcaptures the eye, it's my
spiritual aesthetic.
Yet my grandmother still can'tend a phone call without
reminding me that I'm going tohell.
Tell me never to wear my gayaround her, and I can't remember
the last time she's seen howfly I am, how I patch myself
(32:11):
back together every time.
They say it's just a phase mygrandmother asked me was I gay?
Only because of what he did.
Regret was a thread hanging usby our tongues.
I became a mouth stitched withlavender.
I would watch what I worearound men.
How ugly I felt to be, a womanwho didn't know how to style
herself and anything other thanher grandmother's insults.
(32:32):
A fabric stitched in my seamspassed down through family jeans
.
A denim of denying queernesssewn underneath my scalp
reinforced the needle when I wastold a sports bra would make me
gay or I look like a boywithout wearing earrings.
I had to learn how to be thestraight stitch, be the him
holding the family secret fromunraveling.
(32:54):
I didn't know why my cousin keptintroducing me as confused.
I didn't know how they saw mysexuality as a costume.
I didn't know how to make PTSDlook presentable to my
ex-partner.
She always asked why didn't Idress up for her?
She didn't realize how hard itwas for me to dress up my
depression from the people Ilove.
Patch up the past with prickedfingers.
(33:15):
I pulled myself out of garbagebags my ex-boyfriend crammed my
clothes into.
When he kicked me out he saidhow can I explain that you're
pansexual to my family?
Like being queer is a questionmark and everyone explains how
they think I'll be a negativeinfluence to the children.
When wearing a stitched mouthis a family hand-me-down no
(33:36):
child chooses to put on, I foundsecurity in the comfort of my
own cotton hands that pulled myneck off, that hanger with every
fiber of my being.
I am buying the seams ofdenying loving who I am.
I've sewn my joy back together,all styled in zen, safe in my
skin, around men again, becausefor the first time I picked this
(33:59):
out and I look too good toapologize for how I choose to
see myself healing Black queerwoman dressed for the divine
gods.
Speaker 7 (34:10):
The only reaction I can have to that is just wow.
Thank you so much for sharingyour work with us and talking
about National Poetry Month.
This is Deborah Moncrief Bell,along with Black Wallflower.
How can people find out moreabout you, your socials or buy
your books?
Speaker 8 (34:30):
I have a book coming out this summer entitled
Lavender.
You can check me out onInstagram.
My platform on every platform,excuse me is Black Wildflower,
and you can also find me on mywebsite as well.
It is entitled my name, blackwildflowercom.
I'm super excited and sograteful to have shared the
(34:52):
issues that some black queerwomen or black queer individuals
may struggle with maybe comingout with their families or
sharing their experiences.
I'm grateful for theopportunity to share what that
looked like on my end.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
This is KPFT 90.1 FM Houston, 89.5 FM Galveston, 91.9
FM Huntsville, and worldwide onthe internet at kpftorg.
Speaker 6 (35:23):
Jenny Lee Stern is a Broadway actress who is coming
to Houston with ForbiddenBroadway.
Merrily, we Stole a Song at theHouston Hobby Center.
It's going to be playing fromApril 24th through the 26th, so
kind of a fast run.
Jenny has been in some seriousmusicals, but this show is a
send up, a spoof of the greatwhite way Like you've never seen
.
You're going to get to seecabaret, you'll see gypsy,
(35:45):
you'll see the outsiders andJuliet probably six plus
forbidden Broadway skewers, suchfavorites and classics such as
phantom and Les Mis.
Jenny, how awesome to have youand Forbidden Broadway coming to
Houston.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Thank you, I'm so excited.
I've never been to Houston, soI'm really looking forward to it
.
Speaker 6 (36:05):
It's all about the Tex-Mex and the humidity, that's
it.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
That's what I heard.
I did another interview lastweek and I was like, what do I
need to do?
And she was literally likemargaritas Tex-Mex and like
dress comfortably.
Speaker 6 (36:19):
Yes, your skin will be amazing.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
You'll get this great glow.
I can't wait.
Oh, I can't wait.
Speaker 6 (36:22):
Yeah, you know, forbidden Broadway's been an
institution since 1982.
Yes, labergast, it has beengoing on and I love it.
And help me with this guy'sname Gerard Alessandrini.
Okay, help me with this guy'sname Gerard Alessandrini
Alessandrini.
Okay, he's been doing it thewhole time.
Yes, sir.
How did you end up in thisproduction?
Speaker 3 (36:43):
I have been a member of the family, as they say, for
about 14 years, did my firstproduction about 13, 14 years
ago.
It was called ForbiddenBroadway, alive and Kicking.
So Forbidden Broadway has sortof been continuously running 25
years or something at that point, and then they had taken a
five-year hiatus, which for themwas like major.
(37:05):
This production, alive andKicking, was the first one back,
like we're not dead, and it wasan all-new cast of four actors
who had never done the showbefore, all new material, and so
it was a huge, you know,re-press opening and all the
bells and whistles and yeah, andthat just went really well and
(37:25):
I just really clicked withGerard and John the producer and
Harriet the producer and youknow, a couple years later they
called me back.
I did Spamilton and then acouple years later, like so
every couple years then they'vecalled me back and we've done so
.
Then I did Spamilton and then Idid the Next Generation and
then I did Forbidden Sondheim.
(37:45):
We did last summer and now,narrowly, we stole a song.
Speaker 6 (37:48):
Which kind of is playing again on Sondheim?
Speaker 3 (37:52):
But Sondheim was such a huge lover of Forbidden
Broadway and had a reallypersonal connection with Gerard.
They were friends and he wouldalways come to the show he came
to Alive and Kicking.
We've met him several times andhe's just always.
He loves art, he loves theaterand parody.
Is that Spoofing Sondheim isnot easy, right?
(38:15):
It's not Jingle.
Speaker 7 (38:16):
Bells, Mad Men.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Smells Like this is like to do a proper parody of a
Sondheim song.
Is pretty intense and Gerard'sjust a genius.
Speaker 6 (38:26):
Do you have like a favorite number that you've done
, and it doesn't have to be inthis iteration of it, like just
do you remember, remembersomething that stands out I do
all these like great I.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
I've done all these great numbers.
Gerard's written me so manyamazing numbers.
I did like a an end of therainbow number when tracy
bennett was playing judy garlandon broadway 14 years ago.
I did another judy number whenrenee zellweger played garland.
I've done just.
We did like a Mandy Patty.
(38:54):
Remember when they came backand did their duo show but sang
all these songs like 16 going on17.
Like it was just iconically.
It was like like those aregreat.
But I'm going to say of the, ofall of the incarnations, like
some of the standouts for me areactually the group numbers that
were the most collaborative.
(39:15):
So back in alive and kicking,we did this once number that had
, like, many different parts, itwas almost like a medley.
Remember the musical oncebecause I'm a geek so great and
that was like really fun to puttogether because it was really a
collaborative sort of, camefrom almost an improv and that
(39:37):
was really fun.
And then I got to say we do anoutsider's number in this
version.
It is like one of the most funI've had on stage.
Also, we do a cat's number inthis version.
That's different from it's likeof the new cats, you know, the
ballroom cat, it's just.
Oh, that's different from it'slike of the new cats, you know
the ballroom cat, it's just oh,that's right.
Speaker 6 (39:54):
Yeah, they reinvented it.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
I love, yes, I love.
I love taking center stage andbeing in the spotlight and doing
Judy or Patty or Barbara orAngela Lansbury.
But I mean to like, work off ofthe other actors that I've
become so close with is so funand I just, you know, I really
get a kick out of being on stagewith some of these people.
(40:18):
So I think in this one I thinkyou'll see in my face if those
of you who come see the show, Ilove the Outsiders.
It's hilarious.
Speaker 6 (40:29):
Do you ever?
I mean, you talked aboutStephen S sonheim having a
really great appreciation for itand kind of liking forbidden
broadway, but do you ever?
Do you ever feel bad making funof some of these folks because
I mean, let's face it, broadway,they take themselves a little
bit seriously a little bit tooseriously I've I had to
(40:49):
interview pat LuPone once and Iwas nervous.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Oh my God, I bet.
Speaker 6 (40:55):
I was about to die.
You know one of those peoplethat just made me like I could
interview anyone.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
but you mentioned her and I'm like Okay, well,
speaking of Patti, I'll tell youa quick Patti story.
There is a line that I say inthe show before my Patti number
which is actually verbatim whatshe said to me when I met her
and I was doing a show at 54Below, which for outside of New
York listeners, is like a under,it's the basement of Studio 54.
(41:23):
And it's like the premierBroadway cabaret space, right.
So people like Patti LuPone doshows there, and Lilius White
and Marilyn May and like allthese amazing people.
So I was doing the 930 show andPatti was doing the 7 o'clock
show and I'm just, I'm there allthe time, maybe like once a
month, doing these Broadwaysings, the greatest hits,
(41:44):
broadway sing share, whatever,and so I don't pay too much
attention to who's on the billbefore me.
But I was in my dressing roomgetting ready and I was like
that's Patti LuPone, that'sPatti LuPone.
And I came out and, like thefirst thing, I thought I was
like.
I was like I did a double takebecause I thought she was my mom
for a second and I waswondering what my mom was doing
(42:06):
there, because they really dolook a lot alike.
And I went up to her and I waslike.
I was like, oh my gosh, I justwant to introduce myself.
My name is Jenny Lee Stern andshe's like I'm Patti LuPone.
I was like, yes, I know.
And I was like I play you inForbidden Broadway.
I've played you in ForbiddenBroadway for like 15 years.
She goes Forbidden Broadway.
(42:26):
They're still doing ForbiddenBroadway.
They're still doing forbiddenBroadway.
And I was like what is this linereading?
Is this line reading like, wow,still relevant enough to be in
forbidden Broadway.
Or is it like, oh my God, giveit a rest.
Or is it like, wow, great forthem there's, but it didn't
matter, that was just the line.
Speaker 6 (42:47):
And oh no, just that is just like If I got that from
Patty I would be just like Iwould hold that just right there
.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
They're still doing Forbidden Broadway, like she's,
like good for you, good for youto be working on that.
Yeah, I was like okay.
Speaker 6 (43:04):
I always remember that one song.
They did a really early versionand then Forbidden Broadway.
I get a kick out of me.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Oh yeah, sure yeah.
But I mean to answer youroriginal question, like do you
feel bad?
I mean I will say, look, it isas sharp as ever, clever as ever
.
But I mean we have to evolvewith the times, right?
So there is, you have parodylicense, but everywhere in the
world we are sensitive totrigger warnings for people and
(43:34):
things like that.
You just you have to be or wewould be ostracized, right.
So I think it's toned down inthe meanness factor as opposed
to the past.
You know what I mean.
We're not commenting onpeople's weight, we're not
commenting on people's age,gender identity, sexual
orientation.
You know what I mean, like ifyou go back on people's age,
gender identity, sexualorientation.
You know what I mean, like ifyou go back into the vaults, you
(43:57):
know it's just surprising, likenot so long ago, what things
were universally like okay tosay, and the things that now you
know we're more everyone ismore sensitive to.
But you know we've evolved withthe times on that one.
So I would I'd say it's lessmean but more clever, witty,
(44:17):
it's more of a comment, you know, on the shows themselves,
rather than like and I'm too oldto play this part or I'm too
fat to fit in my whatever itused to be, and it's.
I love that because it's likechallenges, gerard, and it
challenges us to just okay,raise the bar and, like you
don't have to hit below the belt, to still be funny and still be
(44:40):
clever and still find a rhyme.
So I can't say that I feel badevery once in a while, like when
I run into somebody that I'vespoofed.
You know what I?
Speaker 6 (44:51):
mean.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
More like a more of a peer than, let's say, patti
LuPone.
Right, like if I ran into MeganHilty the other day and I was
like and she had then come andseen the show and I think maybe
she had forgotten that I haddone a smash parody of the TV
show 12 years ago and I think ifI went back and listened to
(45:12):
that with her in the same roomI'd probably be getting like the
cold sweats.
Or we did a Moulin Rouge parodyand I ran into Robin Hurter,
like something like that.
You do think for a second likewhat did I say, what did I do?
Was that okay?
But you know, I think everybodywho is spoofed, especially like
a Megan Hilty or Robin Hurd ora Danny Burstein, like it's like
(45:35):
being parodied on SaturdayNight Live, like how cool, like
hello, that means you're iconic,that means you've made it to a
point in your career whereForbidden Broadway can spoof you
.
Like that, you're spoofable.
Oh my gosh, I would take thatany day.
I would just be just an honor.
Speaker 6 (45:57):
Just an would take that any day.
I would just be just an honor,just an honor to be parodied.
You know what I mean exactly,oh my gosh.
No, it's like a sign that youmade it somehow.
If they, yeah, took note enoughto make fun of you.
But now you do other shows too,though you do like serious, oh
yeah, broadway shows.
You're not.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
You're not just a slave to making fun of no, no,
I'm not a slave to the parodyand I'm not a slave to.
I mean, I do play patsy Clinein, always Patsy Cline all over
the country, which still is animpression, but not slapstick.
Speaker 6 (46:19):
That was developed here in Houston.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Really, yeah, yes, that's amazing.
Speaker 6 (46:24):
It was developed right here.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
I love that.
It's a hometown favorite.
Oh, that's wonderful.
Speaker 6 (46:36):
And then I played sally bowls in a very dark
cabaret.
Can you do?
Speaker 3 (46:37):
cabaret and it not be dark.
I'm sure some do, because somehigh schools I just saw it at a
like a high school do it in acommunity center and was like
appalled but I would be appalled.
I was like what am I?
What I feel?
I was like is this test?
Am I supposed to be likewalking out?
This is so inappropriate, butyeah, but I mean, like we just
like really went there sort ofand this was before it came back
(46:58):
to Broadway, when we just sortof had the Olivier Awards to go
off of.
But like I loved that.
Take on just this unhingedSally Done that I mean, yeah,
I've done like pretty much everyin my career.
I started when I was 11 yearsold playing annie at the bucks
kind of playhouse and you know,it's just been going.
It's like everything fromanybody's in west side story to
(47:22):
roxy heart, to, you know, patsyklein, to sally bulls and mrs
love it, to tanya and mama mia,to cats and Seussical.
I've done it all.
I love it all.
I mean I just love being onstage, I love embodying a new
character and this is just kindof another skill that I was
blessed to sort of have fall inmy lap and now it's just become
(47:44):
really like a part of who I am.
It's really been.
I still don't consider myself asinger and I still don't
consider myself an impressionist, like I consider myself an
actor who is called upon doeswhatever I need to do, that
services the show.
You know what I mean and peopleare like you're insane.
I'm like, well, that's just howI feel.
Like I don't feel like someinsane singer who that's my
(48:05):
number one craft Like I playPatsy Cline and she's a singer,
so I will sing like Patsy Cline.
Some of the stuff that you'llsee me do in this version of the
show is like extremely athletic, extremely dancey and all these
things.
And like how long have you beendancing?
And like I have been dancingsince I was a kid, but I also
don't consider myself a dancer.
(48:26):
Like I would never dance in theensemble of some big Broadway
show.
That I mean obviously that's alie because I have.
So I don't know what I'mtalking about, but I don't like
identify like that.
I'm like, oh well, I'm an actorand this role dances.
I guess I don't know.
Speaker 6 (48:41):
I get the sense that you're very versatile.
I mean, that's obviously whyyou're doing so well with
Forbidden Broadway, because itis like a blender you have to
like go to like within like amillion miles a minute.
I mean, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Well, that's the hardest part, I mean the
backstage part with the changesand the wigs and the costumes,
and and then you're like, ohwait, oh, maybe I need to like
lower my palate, like you don'thave the chance to prepare.
And what happens with forbiddenBroadway?
We just had rehearsal this weekweek because it's a little bit
of a new version of the show.
We have like a new person andwe're working things out, and so
(49:16):
the order of the show is veryimportant for flow, but also
because, oh, if Jenny's doingAnnie and she's doing Sweeney
Todd, then we need something inthe middle of it because she
needs to change or whatever.
We were sort of putting the showtogether the other day and I
had to go from Angela Lansburyright, well, I had to go from
Little Red Riding Hood intoAngela Lansbury, into Lindsay
(49:39):
Mendez, and I started trying tosing Lindsay Mendez and like the
sound was not coming outbecause I had just been like,
and then you're trying to belike legit sort of mix belt
American musical theater.
So yeah, it's a wild superniche skill and that's kind of
(50:00):
why there's only like maybe 20core people in all of New York
City that have really done it,like you know, consistently.
Speaker 6 (50:08):
I'm so mad because when I was growing up, when I
was a young man and I wasstudying theater and things like
that, I had a theater teacherthat told me like you were such
a great mimic, you cannot listento any cast recordings.
Because you can, you can do it,and I'm like I should have done
this.
I should have found it in.
Broadway dreams.
Speaker 3 (50:29):
I mean do it whatever , produce it, produce it, write
and produce it.
I mean yeah.
Speaker 6 (50:35):
I'll talk to Gerard when we're in town.
You should.
No, no problem at all, okay,well, so let's get a little bit
personal and, because we're onQueer Voices, we always like to
talk a little bit about theLGBTQIA plus community.
Yeah, I love it, and do youidentify with that?
Speaker 3 (50:51):
I sure do so.
I call myself an elder lesbian.
Speaker 6 (50:54):
Which I love.
Speaker 3 (50:55):
Femtop cougar.
But well, I guess take thecougar out of it now, maybe.
Yeah, I mean, we're good.
Now I finally sort of settledinto like my own age bracket.
I was tired of you know,telling jokes about.
You know golden girls are backto the future and people not
understanding what I'm talkingabout and I was like, oh my gosh
.
Speaker 6 (51:16):
If I was a teen in trouble.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
I could have birthed you.
Speaker 6 (51:19):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (51:21):
Yes, I'm an elder lesbian.
I'm a single mom of threebeautiful daughters.
Speaker 6 (51:25):
How do you manage that when you're on tour?
Speaker 3 (51:34):
I was going to ask you because I was like picturing
like you have like somewonderful spouse or partner
that's going to take care ofthem while you're on tour.
But what do you do?
I do have a wonderful partner,but she is a cardiovascular
pediatric ICU nurse.
Speaker 6 (51:41):
Oh yeah, Not demanding at all.
Speaker 3 (51:42):
Five times fast, you know, just a really lighthearted
kind of career.
So she'll actually be out in LAfor the whole time I'm on tour
working at CHLA.
But yeah, so I but I do have awonderful mother who helps me a
lot.
And also my oldest daughter issix.
She's going to be 16.
So I have a 15 year old, a 14year old and a six year old, and
(52:06):
you're in trouble.
Speaker 6 (52:09):
I would tour too.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
It's, it's, it's a lot of emotion there's a lot of
emotion, there's a lot ofemotions, there's a lot of
emotions.
The feminine energy in thishouse is absolutely wild.
I wouldn't have it any otherway.
Yeah, so I really never toured.
This is such a specialexception and it just works out
where I can like go out for fivedays, come back for three days,
(52:33):
go out for four days.
There's one.
We have one date in Detroit.
It's like one day and I'mliterally flying out that
morning and flying back at 6 amthe next morning because my
daughter's in her school playand I can't miss it.
Speaker 6 (52:45):
What is she going to do?
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (52:47):
Well, my daughters are very experienced and they
work at a community theater nearhere and do their roles.
So at school she's in theensemble of Cinderella and she's
you know, she's anunderclassman and she's paying
her dues and you know we'resupporting her on those small
parts.
You know, just small actorsshe's doing wonderfully and yeah
(53:09):
, so I just make it work.
You know what I mean.
She's doing wonderfully andyeah, so I just make it work.
You know what I mean.
Thankfully, although obviously Itake everything I do very
seriously when I go to work.
I am not a cardiovascularpediatric ICU nurse, you know
what I mean.
I am not a neurosurgeon, I amnot a rocket scientist.
So it's like, luckily,thankfully, wonderfully, I get
to go to work and sing and danceand make funny faces and make
(53:32):
people forget their troubles fortwo hours and hang out with
some of my great friends who dothe show too, and so we just
make it work.
And you know, the truth of thematter is there's plenty of
parents especially dads, I guesswho, like they have to travel
for work and they're gone for amonth at a time doing business
in Tokyo.
(53:53):
I don't know what people do,but I'm sure some people do
things like that.
Yeah, we're just going to makeit work.
This is how I make money, thisis how I take care of my family,
and so make it work.
Speaker 6 (54:03):
So you think that the three of them you were saying
that they're pretty involved intheater, are they?
Do you think they're going tofollow after you?
Speaker 3 (54:08):
God, I hope not.
Speaker 6 (54:10):
I hope she's talking to me to be a pediatric nurse.
Speaker 3 (54:13):
No, that's bad too.
Look, I want them to dowhatever they want to do, but I
want them to be financially free, I want them to be in loving
relationships and be supportedby whoever they choose to take
as a partner, and I just wantthem to be able to have as many
experiences they can look, andif that's theater, then then
(54:36):
that's theater.
You know what I mean, but theworld is just so wild right now,
so who knows?
You know what I mean.
I'm happy that they have it now, because obviously it's like a
wonderful sense of community.
It's still a place that hasn'treally changed in terms of
acceptance, inclusivity.
That's what makes being in thetheater so special, right, think
(54:56):
about all of us that were inour high school theater programs
.
Right, what a beautiful placeto be.
Right, I'd rather be backstageat the drama club than I don't
know.
Speaker 6 (55:09):
I would rather be doing cabaret in high school
than going out on the footballfield.
Yeah, and there's some peoplethat wouldn't club than like I
don't know.
I would rather be doing cabaretin high school than going out
on the football field.
Speaker 3 (55:13):
Yeah, and there's some people that wouldn't, but
it's just like, especially forqueer youth.
It remains a place where, like,that is just not a thing, it's
just come as you are and that'ssort of what theaters or become
what you want to be.
Exactly.
Speaker 6 (55:30):
That's the key.
Speaker 3 (55:31):
Exactly honey, right, become what you want to be.
Exactly that's, that's the key.
Exactly, honey, right, becauseyou just get the chance to, like
you can express yourself and ifyou're unsure or if you're
trying things out or whatever,right, like nobody's gonna say
no one's gonna bat a lash aboutputting on a lash.
You want to put a lash on,let's go.
I love that.
That sort of never reallychanged, you know what I mean,
(55:53):
since, like the beginning oftimes, the beginning of theater.
So I'm glad that they have thatfor now.
They are so incredibly talentedthat they should be doing it
because they definitely spreadjoy.
But yeah, I mean, if theywanted to have like a really
(56:14):
solid, fun career or I don'tknow, design an app or something
and then sell it and then golive in bora bora and like live
their best life, like, I wouldbe supportive of that as well.
Speaker 6 (56:19):
So well, we cannot wait to see you in forbidden
broadway.
I am so stoked that this iscoming to houston.
I've been a fan since probablythe 80s, but anyway it is going
to be at the Hobby Center April24th through the 26th so excited
.
Jenny Lee Stern, I know you'rejust going to make me laugh.
Speaker 3 (56:39):
Will we see you at the show?
Will you be able to get out?
Oh my, gosh?
Speaker 6 (56:42):
Yes, of course.
Speaker 3 (56:43):
Hey, well, make sure you tell me when you're coming
and you know.
Speaker 6 (56:46):
Yeah, and I'm going to bring Patti LuPone Just
kidding, she's going to be myplus one and they're still doing
this damn thing.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
This has been queer voices, heard on KPFT Houston
and as a podcast available fromseveral podcasting sources.
Check our webpage queervoicesorg for more information.
Queer Voices executive produceris Brian Levinka, deborah
Moncrief-Bell is co-producer,brett Cullum and David
Mendoza-Druzman are contributors.
(57:27):
The News Wrap segment is partof another podcast called this
Way Out, which is produced inLos Angeles.
Speaker 5 (57:35):
Some of the material in this program has been edited
to improve clarity and runtime.
This program does not endorseany political views or animal
species.
Views, opinions andendorsements are those of the
participants and theorganizations they represent.
In case of death, pleasediscontinue use and discard
remaining product.
Speaker 1 (57:48):
For Queer Voices.
I'm Glenn Holt.
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