Democracy under threat meets boundary-pushing theater in this powerful episode of Queer Voices, where urgent political resistance stands alongside daring artistic expression.
Texas Representative Jon Rosenthal pulls back the curtain on the high-stakes battle against mid-decade redistricting maps that would dramatically dilute minority voting power across Texas. As 2025 Pride Houston Ally Grand Marshal, Rosenthal doesn't hold back when describing what he calls a "racist redistricting power grab" aimed at dismantling historic districts once represented by civil rights icons like Barbara Jordan. His first-hand account of the Democratic walkout reveals the personal toll of political resistance—from $500 daily fines (when legislators only earn $600 monthly) to surveillance of lawmakers' homes and multiple lawsuits filed across states.
"When you charge us $500 a day, that comes out of your pocket," Rosenthal explains, detailing how Texas Republicans are attempting to make the protest financially unbearable. Beyond tactics, he shares a progressive vision for Democratic strategy, drawing from his own experience flipping a traditionally Republican district. His optimism about future elections stems from a belief that voters are increasingly "motivated and activated" despite structural challenges.
The conversation shifts "dramatically" when we welcome Tyce Green, founder of Houston Broadway Theater, discussing their upcoming production of American Psycho: The Musical. This regional premiere represents an ambitious artistic leap, bringing Duncan Sheik's controversial adaptation to Houston audiences September 2-14 at the Hobby Center. Green reveals fascinating production insights—from assembling a cast blending local talent with Broadway professionals to tackling technical challenges like the infamous "blood canon" special effect.
Whether fighting gerrymandering or pushing theatrical boundaries, both segments showcase individuals willing to challenge established systems when fundamental values are at stake. Listen now to hear these powerful conversations that illuminate how political and artistic expression can serve as vehicles for social commentary in today's rapidly evolving landscape.
Queer Voices airs in Houston Texas on 90.1FM KPFT and is heard as a podcast here. Queer Voices hopes to entertain as well as illuminate LGBTQ issues in Houston and beyond. Check out our socials at:
https://www.facebook.com/QueerVoicesKPFT/ and
https://www.instagram.com/queervoices90.1kpft/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now Houston's only primetime radio program
dedicated to news and concernsof the lesbi, gay and
transgender community.
This is Queer Voices.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello everybody, this is Queer Voices, a podcast and
radio show on KPFT 90.1 FMthat's been on air for several
decades as one of the oldestLGBTQ plus radio shows in the
United States.
From policy to pop culture,today's episode spans it all,
including a timely interviewwith 2025 Pride, houston ally,
(00:36):
grand Marshal, texasRepresentative John Rosenthal,
on Texas's mid-decaderedistricting and what these
maps could mean for voters, aswell as attacks on the LGBTQ
plus community at the statelegislature and more.
We close our show with a chatwith Tice Green from the
upcoming American Psycho musical, for a behind-the-scenes look
(00:56):
at the production's soundaesthetic and the thrill of
embodying a cult classic onstage.
It's a full slate, so we'reskipping the snippets.
Let's get right into it withour newest contributor, joel
Tatum, and his conversation withTexas Representative John
Rosenthal.
Queer Voices starts now.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I'm Joel Tatum and you're listening to Queer Voices
.
Today we're focusing on a highstakes fight unfolding in Austin
, as Democratic lawmakers wererefusing to return to the
statehouse, in a bold act ofresistance, walking out to deny
the Texas House a quorum andhalt a controversial mid-decade
redistricting plan that woulddramatically favor the
(01:38):
Republicans.
Let's chat about it today withDemocratic Representative John
Rosenthal of District 135.
Hi, John.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for inviting me.
I'm glad we can do this.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
We've got a lot of action going on, I see.
We do indeed, we do indeed, wedo indeed.
First of all, let's talk aboutuh, let's talk about the uh, the
two weeks out of town first,and what that, what that
experience was like for you, andgive us as much detail as you
would like okay.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
So, uh, it's been, it's definitely been a wild ride
.
You know the whole thing.
Um, while there was a lot ofplanning that was in place as
soon as we started the specialsession, pulling the trigger on
actually having all theDemocrats break quorum happened
very fast as soon as that racistredistricting power grab came
(02:42):
out of committee was when wedecided as a group to leave town
and we jumped on a plane andflew to Chicago.
And let me tell you, thesepeople have pulled out all the
stops you know to intimidate us,to coerce us, to threaten us.
They had DPS officers parkedoutside of our family's homes
(03:05):
even though we weren't there.
Some agitators were threateningindividuals.
We had one member who had tiresslashed.
It was really difficult andthat's before you get into the
attorney general coming after us, filing lawsuits in four
different states or somethinglike that, and trying to charge
(03:32):
Beto O'Rourke with a felony justfor fundraising for us.
You know he hadn't even givenus money when they were trying
to do that and of course that'sa free speech thing.
It's just ridiculous to do that.
And of course that's a freespeech thing.
It's just ridiculous.
But all these tactics chargingus, fining us $500 a day for
every calendar day.
For those who don't know, wemake $600 a month as state reps.
(04:01):
So when you charge us $500 aday, that comes out of your
pocket.
And it was actually specifiedin the rule that they made up
after the last corn break thatwe could not pay out of campaign
funds.
So this is supposed to come outof our or out of our office
accounts.
So they're really trying tomake it painful on us personally
.
But you know what?
We all signed up and wepersevered and we killed that
(04:23):
bill for the entire first calledsession.
We brought national attentionto the issue and now it's all
over the news and California hasstarted their special session
for a trigger redistricting map.
That would that the state wouldvote on the ability to
(04:44):
temporarily adopt and set asidetheir nonpartisan redistricting
commission just to offset theseats that could be lost in
Texas.
Now that does not help ourpeople, you know, and you're in
Houston with me, right.
So they're gonna, you know,really change the boundaries of
(05:07):
Congressional 18, which is ahistoric district that Barbara
Jordan served in.
Sheila, jackson Lee, craigWashington, you know, sylvester
Turner was in that seat MickeyLeland some real icons of Texas
history.
They are black history in Texas, and then Congressional 9 will
no longer be winnable for AlGreen, so they're trying to
(05:31):
redistrict him out of his seatand it's a real mess.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Well, you guys have been.
First of all, you've beenkeeping Ken Paxton bouncing all
over the place, which is I'mtrying to keep, I'm trying to be
as unbiased as possible, but itis, it is hilarious.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
So from an unbiased view.
He's easily one of the mostcorrupt politicians in the
history of this state.
He was impeached by the TexasHouse of Representatives and
half of the Republicans voted toimpeach him.
It was so obvious and soegregious.
And the lieutenant governorliterally you know they talk
about taking bribes and thatstuff Lieutenant governor took
(06:14):
three million dollars from fromPaxton allies and campaign
contribution and that's notconsidered a bribe.
That's not considered a bribe.
And then, lo and behold, thelieutenant governor then used
the Senate to acquit Ken Paxtonof his charges of misuse of
office, bribery, corruption, youknow all kinds of misdeeds.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
So let's, let's get into when you make it back to
town.
We have a representative I'mgoing to make.
I'm hoping I got her last nameright Representative Collier.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Yeah, Nicole Collier is one of my sheroes.
Nicole Collier is the is one ofthe best of us the House
Democratic Caucus, so she's oneof our more esteemed and
talented members out of theDallas area.
And she refused to sign thepermission slip where we agreed
if we were leaving the chamberto have a police escort.
(07:21):
So she refused to do that and,as a result, they have kept her
locked in the Capitol in theHouse chamber.
She slept there last night inan act of open defiance and
righteousness.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
If I recall and I just read this today I think she
has thrown in a lawsuit as well.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
I'm sure, that's true .
She's a very talented attorneyand, like I said, the best and
the brightest of us, with quiet,confidence and experience.
And so here's.
Here's some little insidebaseball stuff.
When we choose our uh seatingassignment in the house chamber,
we get to do that by seniorityand and I moved my seat this
(08:05):
time so I could sit next toNicole Collier so Rafael Anchia,
who's another great talentedlawyer and one of our senior
members out of Dallas, is mydeskmate, and then right on the
other side is Nicole Collier andshe, like, I think I'm a good
researcher, I'm an oil fieldengineer and I'm a total wonky
nerd kind of person.
(08:25):
I do a lot of research.
I do not come close to thepreparation that nicole collier
does.
She is.
She is amazing, like in reallife, totally amazing and, um at
large, in charge with thisquiet.
You never see her yelling orgetting visibly, you know,
(08:46):
agitated.
She is just cool and calm andslices people apart with a
scalpel.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
She is truly amazing and, as a Democratic voter, I
need to ask this question Shouldwe be extremely worried?
Should we be with all this,with all this redistricting
(09:12):
madness?
I, I will, I will call it.
Should we be worried?
Speaker 4 (09:18):
uh, yes, absolutely, and I think, uh, people across
the country are worried becausewhat's happening I mean the the
issue in tex, texas, obviouslyis local, and they're going to
dismantle historic districts andcombine districts and try and
force some of our greatcongressional representatives
(09:39):
out.
But really, if the way tocombat this is fighting fire
with fire, which is whatDemocrats are doing finally
(10:04):
redraw their maps every timethey have an election, if one
side or the other, whoever's incharge, thinks they're going to
lose that, that really deprivespeople of their ability to pick
their representatives.
So you have um partisans andparty bosses in washington and
virginia drawing these maps andthey choose the voters to keep
certain people in office.
It's supposed to be the votersselecting our representatives,
(10:29):
right?
It's supposed to be the otherway around.
And so the real push here needsto be for a federal law to
outlaw partisan gerrymanderingacross the board.
Let there be fair maps, letpeople have contests of ideas
and let communities of commoninterest be collected together
to elect the leaders torepresent them in government.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
And with the bid terms coming up, how do you
think, in your opinion, how doyou think, democrats will fare
in the midterms?
Speaker 4 (11:05):
How do you think Democrats will fare in the
midterms?
So, even with all theredistricting and the
prognosticating and everythingelse, I don't think they're
quite taking into account thebacklash that that we may see
from this, from the horribleadministration.
Like I hate to even use theconvicted felon in the White
House.
I hate to even use theconvicted felon in the White
House, I hate to even use hisname.
(11:26):
But if their policies are sobad that they have to rig the
maps to try to keep control ofCongress, you know that they are
running scared.
They're desperate to keepcontrol because they know that
Democrats are likely to takecontrol of the House and maybe
the Senate too.
And I'm going to add this thelast time that dude was
(11:49):
president, when thatadministration came in and they
were off the rails.
Crazy was actually whatinspired me to run for office,
and this district where I'msitting in right now House
District 135 had beenrepresented by a Republican for
the same guy for 24 years and hehad beat the last opponent by
(12:10):
10 points in 2016.
But in 2018, I came back andbeat him by two, so that was a
12-point swing in what wasconsidered a ruby-red district
in northwest Harris County.
So all I got to say is it'sgonna be on, baby like democrats
rising up.
People are up and down theballot, motivated and activated,
(12:34):
and there is a possibility thatdemocrats are going to win some
races that are not expected towin, like like I did in 2018.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
And do you see do I want to call it a policy change
in the Democratic Party?
Do you see the rise ofprogressives in the party?
As we're watching the mayoralrace in New York, which is
fascinating it is really themost fascinating race I think
(13:05):
I've ever watched, and I'm noteven in New York so seeing more
progressive.
We've seen pushback from someDemocrats in New York about
progressives and now we've got aprogressive on the ballot who
could possibly win.
He's probably going to win, sohow are the Democrats handling
the idea who could possibly win?
(13:26):
I think he's probably going towin.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
So how are the Democrats handling the idea of
more progressives coming intothe party?
So I actually have a prettysalty take on this, like I'm a
progressive Democrat and no onepeople thought I had to be a
centrist.
And while you know, I like tothink I'm pragmatic, I'm a
progressive, especially onsocial policy, social justice,
equity, justice, that sort ofthing.
(13:52):
Here's the way I see it.
These sort of I don't knowcorporate centrist dems, sort of
the old school Democrats thathave been in office a long time,
they're all scared and think aprogressive can't win or
whatever.
It's like.
Yo, you need to read the room.
(14:13):
This guy is about to win themayoral race in New York and the
big time like party powerbrokers that are flipping out
over this because they're goingto have someone they can't
control.
Like I think they need to getused to it.
I think it's it's going to beprogressives that are going to
(14:33):
be the heart of a major surge inCongress, probably in the
Senate, in statehouse racesacross the country.
That's what our base wants andthat's really at this point.
Progressive policies are stufflike let's make people safe,
let's feed children, let'seducate the population, the
(14:53):
population like it's not exactlywingnut stuff.
It's the things that everybodywants and um, and we're just
fine and part of my partisanship.
But we're just finding thatrepublicans have chosen to
abandon their morals and theirvalues and all they do is serve
a convicted felon in the whitehouse, and that's not going to
fly.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
I actually had a question.
I had a question on my brainand I lost it, and I'm so sorry,
john, for that, but I wanted tofind out how are Democrats now
going to reach out to the voterswho kind of betrayed the party?
Uh, in 2024, uh, by puttingthis man in office, uh, in the
(15:45):
first place?
We're talking, uh, how do wereach young men?
How do we reach, uh, theimmigrant population?
How do we reach right?
Speaker 4 (15:53):
so the first thing I'm going to say is I'm looking
at you michigan democrats whocould not vote for kamala harris
, and how's that working outright now?
So, um, it needs to be.
Uh, it really needs to be.
Campaigning itself needs to bereimagined and re-envisioned.
So we have to reach voterswhere they consume information
(16:15):
and and the traditional campaignmodels, while that will still
have value, the regularadvertisements and yard signs
and and definitely block walking.
Certainly knocking on doors ishow I won spaces.
(16:38):
So the podcasts and the radioshows and going on TV and having
our progressives step into thelion, the lion's den on Fox News
and One America, whatever,whatever, like, we have got to
get our message out.
Part of the problem that we hadin the last cycle was, by the
time the Democrats were knockingon doors, people had already
made up their minds because ofthe information they're
consuming, you know, online andon TV and on talk radio, and so
(17:00):
we have got to compete in thosespaces.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Because, let's face it, podcasting was exactly how
we won, and it was throughpodcast that this I don't like
to say his name either, but forthe show, this is how Trump
actually won a lot of votersthat were maybe sitting on the
(17:24):
fence.
He won a lot of young men,especially young men, won a lot
of young men, and now there's alot of buyers remorse, of course
.
Lot of buyers remorse, ofcourse.
Uh, so basically put, you'renow going to have to reach out
to those voters who now havebuyers remorse, who have now
realized that their votes werewell dumb.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
So well, when your grandma loses her health care,
when you have trouble gettingvaccines for your children to go
to school, when schooldistricts are closing campuses
and underfunded and can't keepteachers around, you know it
doesn't matter whether if youlive in the city or the suburbs
(18:06):
or rural texas.
There's some stuff that we allcare about that these people in
washington are just plainscrewing up right now, and that
has to be our message not justthat they're screwing up, but
that we have real solidsolutions, that we are coming
with progressive policies thatwill serve the public.
Whether you live in the middleof red, rural whatever, or you
(18:31):
live in the heart of Houston,texas, or in the Valley or in
the Panhandle, no matter whereyou are, this stuff reaches you,
and I think people that havebeen unaffected before are now
having it actually touch theirlives.
You know all those people whoused to say I don't like to pay
attention to politics, like Itry to stay out of it.
If you do not, um, you may notbe involved in politics, but
(18:57):
politics is involved with you,and so, uh, if you fail to
exercise your vote, these peoplecan do whatever they want and
just basically rob our country,rob your tax dollars to give
billionaires, you know moremoney.
Tax breaks like nobody thinksthat's OK and do you?
Speaker 3 (19:17):
how do you?
Ok, I'm sorry, let me, let meget.
Let's talk about the midtermsfor a little bit.
Let's talk about the Democrats.
Were to win both the House andthe Senate, what's the first
thing that you think Democratsneed to do day one?
Speaker 4 (19:37):
What's the first thing that you think Democrats
need to do day one?
Day one is remove thefilibuster in the Senate, and
day two is pass a voting rightslegislation that that outlaws
gerrymandering, political votepicking, whatever you want to
call it, vote picking, whateveryou want to call it.
Enshrined voting rights in ournational law.
(20:01):
And then, if you ask me youknow I'm a progressive If you
want to balance things outstatehood for Washington DC and
Puerto Rico, add a few justicesto the Supreme Court and let's
take away that the partisanadvantage that has been handed
to conservatives with theElectoral College, where you
(20:23):
know, if you look at history,like North and South Dakota
became two states so they couldhave four senators.
Those two states put togetherhave less population than the
city I live in and so they don't, they shouldn't have four
senators when California onlyhas two and Texas, you know,
only has two, and so you couldreally change the balance of
(20:46):
power.
And then you have to put, youhave to balance the Supreme
court with justices who areactually serious about the law
and not creating a partisanpolicy from the bench of the
Supreme Court, and then, if youwant to go for really good
measure, I would do term limitson all of us, including the
Supreme Court, and then maybe wecan get back to some good
(21:10):
governance, that's, of thepeople, by the people, for the
people of the people, by thepeople, for the people.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
What about uh now?
What about um finally gettingthe vote on uh, the equal rights
amendment?
Because I why right?
Why have we not?
Speaker 4 (21:27):
when, as a kid, when that thing was first being uh
talked about in congress so yeah, federal equal rights amendment
that establishes all humanshave rights, whether you're, no
matter what the color of yourskin or your or your ethnic
background, or if you're lgbt,or if you're, you know, native
(21:48):
american or whatever you know.
Right now, if they pass thesemaps in texas, a black person's
vote will will count one onefifth what a white person's vote
counts.
Hispanic person's vote willcount one third what a white
person's vote was.
So if you look at the racistcrap that was built into the
Constitution the three fifthsthing they are literally trying
(22:12):
to do that again bygerrymandering these districts.
So so we got to get some equityhappening and equal rights
amendment.
I've said this over and overHuman rights are human rights.
Trans rights are human rights.
People everywhere should havethe right to live free, live
(22:33):
their lives fully expressed inany way, pursue happiness in any
way they choose.
As long as you're not messingwith someone else, you should be
able to do what you do.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
You know what I mean.
That's a fantastic answer, John.
Thank you for that?
Because I'm curious why have wenot, but we have enough states?
Why have we not, but we have?
We have this, we have enoughstates, right?
Why have we not put the erathrough?
We've had years to do this andI don't know why the democratic
party, we've had freakingdecades.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Like it boggles my imagination how this isn't like
what.
How long, what is it going totake in this country to decide
every human living here hashuman rights.
Like, don't all humans deservehuman rights?
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I'm just saying what do you think is the future of
Texas as far as you're concernedwith voting and everything else
?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
That's a really good question.
So, um, people continue to flowinto this state at uh, more
people move to texas than anyother state in the union.
We have quite a bit of influxfrom uh, from california and new
york uh in and you know, inbetween 2010 2020, states
population grew by four millionpeople and that was half
(23:59):
Hispanic and and the nextbiggest chunk was
African-American.
And then more AAPI moved in toTexas than white people.
So in the last five years,since 2020, that trend has
stayed exactly the same 96% ofour population growth is black
(24:19):
and brown.
So black, hispanic, asian, aapiand other.
So, while no population ismonolithic and you can't say,
just because someone is thiscolor or that background or came
from this state or that state,that does not determine their
partisan affiliation, but Ithink, um, if you employ policy
(24:41):
that serves the people, then youwill win at the ballot box.
And uh, and this state is doingsuper racist stuff right now
with uh, alien land laws, wherethey just enacted senate bill 17
in this session that does notallow people from china to buy
land in this state.
I mean it like we're going backto like world war one, civil
(25:04):
war, uh, stuff that just peopledon't like it.
They think it's unfair and andthe truth is, conservatives like
conscientious conservatives.
You remember back in day weused to be able to have
reasonable discussions withpeople we disagreed with and our
Republican friends.
We could debate the finerpoints of policy and how you
(25:26):
should do this or that.
You know we need to get back tothat.
Well, until we have a newsystem in place.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
I know, as a voter, I miss.
I so miss those days.
I miss the days when voting wasboring, when the news was
boring.
That is the honest statement tosay, but I miss the days when
voting was boring.
I voted straight Democrat, washome and was 15 minutes in, 15
(25:57):
minutes out.
That's that's all I'm as avoter.
That's all I'm supposed to do.
Now I'm being drawn into thingsthat I'm like.
Now I have to have opinionsabout things.
Now I have to think about how Iwant to approach people.
Now I have to think about whomy friends are.
I've lost quite a fewfriendships due to the 2024
(26:19):
election.
I've had to cut family membersoff due to the 2024 election.
So I yes, I miss those days.
I completely do.
Will we ever see those daysagain?
It may I'm.
Are we looking?
It may take about a couple ofgenerations before that happens.
It days again.
It may I'm.
Are we looking?
They may take about a couple ofgenerations before that happens
.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
It may or it may not.
So the way that things breakonce something starts to
movement, gains momentum, stuffhappens very quickly and of
course we're seeing that rightnow with this authoritarian
shift.
But I think, uh, once peopleget fed up enough, there will be
a breaking point.
I think this whole epstein filecontroversy, that sort of thing
(27:00):
is, is the sort of thing thatmight feed this.
And well, I think it's notsuper substantive.
You know, like I didn't care ifbill clinton got you know in
the overall oval office, Iactually don't care if care if
some of these leaders were on anEpstein jet at one time or
another.
Now, if they're pedophiles, weshould act on that accordingly.
(27:22):
But what I'm saying is remember,at the end of the McCarthy era,
people were afraid to speak outwhile that was going on and
they would be accused of this orthat.
It sort of has a ring like likehistory rhymes and right now
anybody speaking out against youknow donald trump is going to
(27:44):
get primaried or whatever.
At some point, you know enoughpeople will wake up and be like
the famous line you know, haveyou no decency, sir?
Because human beings, I think,are naturally decent and it
takes some learning.
Someone has to teach you tohate people, and so at some
(28:06):
point I hope people will kind ofreturn.
I've never lost my faith inhumanity, although it gets
shaken sometimes.
But you have to think people ofgood conscience at some point
will go hey, that's wrong.
It's just wrong, thisredistricting thing.
It's just wrong.
You're changing the rules inthe middle of the game because
(28:27):
you know you're going to lose.
No one would put up with thatin a football game or a
basketball game, like oh, myteam's going to lose, so we're
going to change out all the refs.
Oh, my team's going to lose, sowe're going to change out all
the refs.
And now my team every shot theytake will be worth four points,
and the other team every shotthey take will be worth one
point.
Nobody thinks that's okay.
No one wants to see that.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
And you know we're just about out of time.
What do you want to say tovoters about everything that has
happened up until today, in thelast two weeks?
What do you want to say tovoters?
Speaker 4 (29:04):
I want to say if you haven't paid attention before,
the time is now.
Pay attention, be involved,find out who represents you.
You can Google in Texas.
You can google who representsme.
Brings up a form and put inyour address.
You get all the contactinformation for everybody that
represents you.
Engage with those people, checkthem out, learn what they're
(29:25):
about and then um call theiroffices.
Like we keep records of thatstuff.
The people must let theirelected employees know what they
want.
We're employees, we'retemporaries in these roles, so
politicians need to learn torespect their voters, and the
way they do that is by havingyou engage.
(29:47):
So please get engaged and makesure no one stays silent.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Two more questions and then we're going to call it
a day John.
Two more questions and thenwe're gonna we're gonna call it
a day john.
Um, any, uh, any uh.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Thoughts of, uh, maybe a major run later on in
your, in your future, maybe fora national office or something
like that.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
I've jokingly called you senator several times, so
I've often well not running forSenate and I so there's.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
You know you can't help but think about certain
things.
I'm, while we're in the middleof all this, I'm kind of putting
off all of that sort of thoughtand conversation.
You know where I got.
I'm not going to run for Senateor for Congress, so let's right
now.
My intent is to run to keep theHD 135 seat in Democrat hands,
(30:41):
of course, and I'm also workingon school board elections.
So the down ballot races aresuper important.
And if you didn't think itmattered who sits on your school
board, if you live in Cy Fairor Katie School District, it
matters now.
So I would just encourageeverybody to be involved.
(31:02):
And then, if you end up seeingmy name on a ballot, it's hard
to imagine I would do that thistime, but weirder stuff happens
all the time, so I would juststay tuned.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Weirder stuff happens all the time, so I would just
stay tuned.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Well being that you were no that you still are Grand
Marshal ally of Houston Pride.
I'm so proud of that.
It's just such an amazing.
That whole thing has been suchan amazing deal and I don't know
if folks want to go look atsome of my speeches on the house
floor.
There's a reason why folks uhfelt like nominating me for that
honor and then, once beingnamed, I I have continued to
(31:47):
speak out, to be vocal, to goafter those people.
They go after, they go afterany communities, but especially
like these folks like to usetrans people as political fodder
.
It's like yo, these are humanbeings just trying to live their
lives.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Leave them the fuck alone and I, I think we, I think
we've asked all the questionswe can ask.
And you know what, john, I'm sograteful that you sat down with
me and talked to the queervoices community to let them
know exactly what they need toknow and how they need to get
(32:23):
involved.
Any social media you want topush, any anything that you know
that voters can maybe reach you, and, and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
Here's.
Here's a quick little secret.
If you google john rosenthalcell phone, my cell phone number
comes up, because I used itwhen I first ran for office like
one person working on thecampaign and you have to write a
campaign contact.
It was me.
So that's one thing, but youcan also find me on like the
website formerly known asTwitter.
(32:58):
I'm John J-O-N, underscoreRosenthal TX, or Facebook or
Instagram, and actually if youmessage me, I'll usually answer
you.
It may not be immediately, butI like to be easy to find.
Folks should be able to findtheir elected employees and tell
us what you want from us.
(33:19):
So, um, yeah, please find me onsocial media.
Reach out.
John rosenthal tx is thewebsite like.
You can find me that way.
We're in the middle of anupgrade on that thing.
Hopefully it'll come out nice,but, uh, find me well, you know
what.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Thank you, john, for being on our show and, ladies
and gentlemen, you were.
You were just listening to JohnRosenthal, representative of
District 135.
Thank you, john, for being onthe show, and we're going to
catch up with you next time,because we need more updates, we
need to know what's going on,so I'm hoping yeah, hit me up in
a week or two.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
I will probably have some stuff going on, got it.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
So thank you, John, and we will see you next time.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Before we get to our conversation between contributor
Brett Cullum and founder ofHouston Broadway Theater and
star of the upcoming AmericanPsycho Musical, all of our
episodes need to be exactly 58minutes long and currently we're
at 56 minutes and 10 seconds.
So here to fill one minute and50 seconds of content.
I'm here to talk about nextweek's episode.
(34:23):
As you may know, Houston, wheremany of our team live and
operate, has a lot of LGBTQ plusserving organizations and a lot
of coalitions.
We have the Harris County LGBTQPlus Commission, we have Queens
of Houston or Queer UnifiedEmergency and Empowerment
Network, and we have the Mayor'sLGBTQ Plus Advisory Board, the
(34:45):
latter of which has gotten a lotof media attention due to the
abrupt firing of their chairunder the former mayor.
Next week, our episode will bededicated to the former and new
chair of that advisory board, sobe sure to tune in next week.
Let's get to our finalinterview of the episode with
Tice Green, founder of HoustonBroadway Theater and star of the
(35:05):
upcoming American Psychomusical, Brett Cullum.
Take it away.
Speaker 6 (35:11):
Tice Green is the founder and artistic director of
Houston Broadway Theater.
He started his acting careerhere in Houston with several
companies, including Tuts andStages, and then he ran off to
New York City and went there andbecame a model.
He became an actor, he became asinger.
He has tons of hits with hisrock and roll style cabaret
performances, even made an albumwith legendary producer and
(35:33):
writer Jim Steinman, who wrotefor Meatloaf, bonnie Tyler and
someone named Celine Dion I'mnot so sure if you know her and
Barbra Streisand.
Tice has appeared on ProjectRunway as one of the male models
for several seasons and one ofhis biggest latest gigs was an
Andrew Lloyd Webber touringproduction of Jesus Christ
Superstar.
And Tice starred in lastseason's Next to normal, which
(35:56):
was houston broadway theater'sauspicious debut, and it was one
of the best shows of the lastyear by a long shot, even when
you compare it to othercompanies.
Well, now he's back and so ishouston broadway theater with
american psycho, the musicalrunning at the hobby center
september 2nd through the 14th.
So nice to see you again, tice.
(36:17):
Hello, hello, all right, let'sjust my first question and this
is the elephant in the roomAmerican Psycho.
Are you insane?
Because this is a cult musicaland you are bringing its
regional debut to Houston.
London and New York wereshocked by this.
It had a really hard timefinding audiences.
How are you going to get awaywith murder and show tunes in
Houston?
Great question.
Speaker 5 (36:38):
Pass.
No, I'm just kidding.
Well, as a new theater company,what we're really trying to do
is we're trying to bring titlesto Houston that have not been
here, or it's been a really longtime since they've been here,
or they've never been here inthe capacity that we're bringing
them.
How do we find those audiencesbeen here in the capacity that
we're bringing them?
How do we find those audiences?
(36:58):
I think that the reason that weexist is because those
audiences exist and they don'thave a place to go.
They don't have a placecurrently where.
Where can you go and see whattheater company here is going to
produce American Psycho and doit at the Hobby Center?
My big vision in creating thistheater company was we have so
many amazing small theatercompanies here that do 99 seat
(37:19):
theater and black box theaterand that programming is really
well handled with existingcompanies.
And then we have behemothcompanies, you know, like the
alley and tuts.
These are just like giant,giant organizations where you go
into these you know 2,000,3,000 seat theaters.
I think that there's somethingwhere you know if you do really
(37:40):
interesting titles on a reallybig scale.
We're working to try to findthose audiences.
I picked American Psycho thisyear because for a couple of
reasons.
One is it's never had not onlyhas it never had a Houston debut
, our production is the firstunion regional production.
It has been produced a coupleof times at what are called
non-equity theaters, which justmeans that the actors are
(38:03):
non-union and there's you know,they're usually kind of smaller
scale stuff Ours is going to bethe biggest production that the
show has ever had regionally.
We're also very lucky in thatDuncan Sheik, who wrote the
music, is working on it with us.
He is lending his hand to giveus insight.
So that's exciting, especiallyfor a regional theater.
American Psycho is veryinteresting in 2025, because, if
(38:28):
you strip away the horror of itall and the Patrick Bateman of
it all, it's ultimately a storyabout identity.
Patrick is ultimately this guywho is trying to find his
footing in.
The whole show is really aboutthe bastardization of the
American dream set in the late80s Glamour and money and who's
got the best clothes and goes tothe best restaurants.
(38:50):
And it's an interestingcommentary to see in 2025
because we're seeing a reallybig gap, a big disparity between
the classes.
Depending upon what side of thepolitical spectrum you are, I
think the story impacts you in adifferent way.
If you're coming to the storyof a more conservative viewed
person, I think it's going toimpact you in one way.
(39:13):
If you're coming to the theateras a more liberal and
left-leaning person, it's goingto impact you in a very
different way.
Houston is a city that is quitediverse in both culture and
political leaning.
Our audiences, I think, aregoing to be filled with people
that have a mixture of views andcultural backgrounds, so that's
going to be very interesting tosee what their response is.
Speaker 6 (39:34):
Let me geek out a little bit here for a second.
I absolutely was thrilled tosee the announcement that it was
American Psycho and I was likeyou're kidding me.
This is amazing.
I love Brett Easton Ellis.
I have read every one of hisbooks.
I read the book when it cameout in 1991.
Brett admitted a little bitlater that it was a very
personal book for him, that hefelt like it was something that
he slipped into into PatrickBateman's world where he lived
(39:57):
in this kind of consumerist voidthat was supposed to give him
confidence but really made himfeel just completely isolated
and not there.
If you flash forward about 10years, in 2000, mary Herron
directed a movie of it and thebook was considered unfilmable
because of the graphic violenceand all of the things that have
happened in the book, and Maryreally introduced a satirical
element into it, just like inBrett's books, that maybe it's
(40:20):
not as real as we think it isand maybe it's not as real as
Patrick thinks it is.
So the musical Duncan Sheik,roberto Aguirre-Sacasa is that
what I'm saying?
Yeah, all right, he's famousfor comic book writing as well
as plays Duncan Sheik, obviouslymaking it more of a rock thing,
which makes sense for you andyour company.
By the way, I've never seen themusical.
I've heard it, but I've neverhad a chance to, and I think
(40:41):
that's one of the things that'sreally exciting is that Houston
is actually going to have achance to see this, when it has
been very limited produced.
I was looking through theproductions and significant ones
that I can find are like 2013in London, 2016 in Broadway,
2019 Sydney, 2023 in Chicago.
It won all kinds of awards thatyear and there is a 2026 London
revival which is set to go upas well, so it's a great time to
(41:05):
do it.
So don't I'm totally excitedabout it, but I think it's a.
It's a tough sell in a weirdway, because there was so much
controversy around everyiteration of this piece of work.
It is kind of interesting tosee it as a commentary on
delusion.
Maybe tell me a little bitabout your cast.
Speaker 5 (41:20):
It's a half Houston cast and a half Broadway cast,
so that's always been built into.
Our mission is to have notnecessarily half exactly every
single time, but the missionfrom both backstage to onstage
is to mix Houston professionalswith Broadway professionals.
There are some there's a coupleof people in the in the cast
that are coming to us likedirectly from having graduated
(41:41):
at Sam Houston.
This is their firstprofessional regional show, so
that's pretty cool too, I think.
The makeup of all the differentkinds of people.
We also have people in the showthat have Broadway credits,
that are from Houston originally, that live in New York now, but
now they're coming back home inorder to be in the show.
That's how I grew up doingtheater.
I was always in shows and castthat did that.
The way that I learned how tobe a professional was it was
(42:04):
less about getting propertraining in a classroom and it
was more about just being thrustinto a show.
And then I was 19 doing theSound of Music.
I was playing Rolf and theCaptain Von Trapp was the
longest running beast onBroadway.
I just thought that was thecoolest thing.
And then Maria was.
She was like the only woman inthe history of Les Mis to have
(42:24):
ever played both Fontaine andCosette, like she started as
Cosette and then she graduatedto Fontaine and you know,
between the two of them they hadlike 15 Broadway credit.
Speaker 6 (42:32):
It's a tough show to cast, I think because you've got
a lot of men in their mid 20sand it's a very specific look.
It's a very specific act.
Duncan Sheik has written a veryspecific score that sounds late
80s, early 90s kind of pop rock.
It's tough to execute.
So I mean, was that hard tofind the people that could
actually approach this?
(42:53):
Because this is not youraverage musical.
The score is very interesting.
Speaker 5 (42:56):
You're right, there are some 80s tunes that are
infused into it.
What is unique about thehandful of 80s tunes that are
infused in it is that they areall completely rearranged.
You know, usually in jukeboxmusicals and this isn't a
jukebox musical, but usuallywhen you have existing songs,
pop songs that are infused in amusical, they're kind of musical
theater, if I'd, but they'repretty much like the originals,
(43:17):
like you know, because the wholepoint is to have something in
the show that people recognizeand they and they, you know, is
mimicked on stage.
With this show it's verydifferent.
Like you know, there arethere's like a choral
arrangement of in the airtonight by phil collins, which
is very different than theoriginal.
So I think the way that it'sinfused in the show is very
interesting.
And then, yeah, his music.
(43:38):
You know, I would I hope Idon't get in trouble for saying
this, but I would I would go sofar as to say the show is
definitely set in like 1989.
The music feels way more 90s.
It's like it's a little bitmore electronic and has more of
like a clubby kind of sound toit.
But I think I don't thinkthat's anything that Duncan
wouldn't say.
So you're right.
Speaker 6 (43:57):
In his defense.
Tice, I was there and I cantell you that the sound of the
show.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
From what I've heard is pretty true to 1989.
Speaker 6 (44:10):
It's definitely.
It does have that vibe, becauseyou have to remember that when
we were crossing decades,usually the decade starts right
in the tail end of it, and thenthe 90s kind of started in 89.
They were kind of movingtowards that.
So this is a very show that issteeped in the late 80s, early
90s, and I heard that veryprominently in the soundtrack.
Absolutely, but I do agree withyou, it was what became popular
(44:33):
in the 90s but it was definitelysomething that was bubbling up
through the clubs at that point,but it's one of the things
that's interesting to me aboutduncan's.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
Like you said, he's taking songs that aren't
necessarily club songs, like inthe air tonight, and made them
kind of commentaries in the showand things like that, and
that's definitely not one thatsounds slick and because it is,
I mean you can count it.
Like you said, there's beenthere has been a production in
Chicago, at least in the US, anda production in after Broadway
production in Chicago and aproduction DC.
(45:11):
They were both small black boxproductions that got a lot of
acclaim, but that's it and wehad a lot of turnout for the
show and it was really coolseeing in the in the auditions.
We auditions both in houstonand in new york and I mean there
were some people that walked ininto the new york auditions
where I went.
Really, you like you, you wantto do it like you want to do our
(45:32):
show.
Okay, you want to come down tohouston person who I've seen?
Do you know three, fourbroadway shows?
You know, to speak to yourpoint about the film director
and about you know thedifference between the, the
novel, and the film, the musical, also its own version.
What we're finding is thatthere's a.
There's a pretty starkdifference between what the
script calls for and what theoriginal broadway direction was
(45:56):
like.
Rupert gold was the broadwaydirector and he's also directing
it again at the alameda inlondon, coming up for the
revival.
He started it more grounded andit sort of got way more surreal
as the show progressed.
And then by the end of it inthe second act you've got
Patrick in his underwear almostSunset Boulevard style now you
would call it drenched in blood,doing scenes where the other
(46:18):
people in the scene don'tacknowledge that he looks like
that and they just do sort of aregular scene.
So that was very like surreal.
The movie is satirical in a waythat it's coming from a real
place.
But then there's just theselike kind of wacky I would go so
far as to say like a littlecartoony sometimes.
Like there is a.
There is definitely like athread of heightenedness that is
(46:42):
in the movie that comes withthis kind of tongue in cheek,
wink, wink kind of thing, andit's also very 80s.
The movie, the fashion is very80s.
They were not afraid to do likea boxy suit, teased hair, like
you know, so they went reallyfull on that.
The musical kind of like themusic, dipped a little bit more
into the 90s with a little bitmore kind of slimmer silhouettes
(47:02):
and I think it kind ofsuspended disbelief there.
On the fashion, I'll tell you,like our production, we really
are trying to start it and keepit as grounded as possible and I
think the reason for that is,like the the director, joe
calarco, no matter what thesubject matter is, he's always
looking to strengthen therelationships between the
characters.
Relationships are everything onstage, regardless of what the
(47:25):
cadence is or the tone.
Everything is just about peopleinteracting with each other and
what those relationships areabout and what they want from
each other and what theconflicts are.
It is way less graphic than thenovel.
The show accomplishes paringdown some of the really really
crazy vulgarity of the novel.
The show accomplishes paringdown some of the really really
crazy vulgarity of the novel butretains the groundedness.
(47:52):
We're not playing super highsatire.
I think that the musicalelements in the show lend
themselves to the satire.
It's a musical right, so amusical already has a little bit
of like we're singing, so youcan't take us too seriously,
anyway.
So I'm excited about it becauseI think there's an opportunity
to let the satire come through,but really come through from a
grounded place.
And I'm interested to see howpeople respond to that, because
(48:15):
I think when it's played reallyreal and really straightforward
and the jokes are just funnybecause they're being played in
a very real way, then you startasking those questions.
Like you said, one of thecoolest parts of this whole
story whether it's the novel orthe movie or the musical is
there are moments in the in theshow and in the story where you
go.
Is that really happening or isthat in his mind?
(48:36):
And I think when you play itfrom a grounded place it makes
it harder for the audience toknow that and it allows for a
lot more interpretation.
I think it's cool.
That's.
Speaker 6 (48:43):
That's one of my favorite parts about the whole
story you know, I want to askyou a little bit about the tech
you mentioned next to normal,and the tech for next to normal
was amazing, it was really great.
But you guys ran one weekendand then with this one you've
got september 2nd through the14th.
So you, you grounded a littlebit, a little bit longer run Is
the set.
I mean again a challenging set.
(49:06):
I mean there's a ton oflocations here, it's ice.
Speaker 5 (49:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (49:13):
You have to go to Les Mis at intermission.
I mean, come on.
Speaker 5 (49:16):
You sound like my production manager.
Okay, stop yelling at me.
Speaker 6 (49:19):
The sets are going to be wild.
How are you going to solve thatpart of it?
Speaker 5 (49:27):
Yeah, well, and we have.
So we have a set design that'sdone and we're in, we're in
pre-production now and you knowwe've been able to zilk has a
small space and so, withoutgiving too much away, we've been
able to kind of not dissimilarto next to normal, like kind of
create a playground where thingscan come on and off and small
pieces and props can come on, tokind of create, you know, this
new setting and then go off andthen we go over here to this
side and we're in this newsetting, we're, we're playing
(49:50):
around with more projections.
Speaker 6 (49:52):
There's some interesting tv elements involved
and it has to be becausePatrick Bateman is obsessed with
television, so yeah, you haveto have that in there.
And then the gore.
Speaker 5 (50:03):
That's a whole world unto itself as well this is the
the first time I've ever been ina production meeting where the
word blood canon was used.
And, you know, one of us askedwe were like, what exactly is a
blood canon?
That's interesting.
That's one of the things we'vehad to sort out is, like,
because that's that's specialeffects, and figuring out how
we're going to do that, and andI don't want to give it away,
(50:23):
but what I will tell you is thatthe conversations that were had
were like okay, do we, in thisworld of digital screens and
stuff, do we animate the blood?
Do we, you know, do we utilizea Sunset Boulevard style thing
where you've got like one thinghappening up here on a screen
but then, you know, thensuddenly you see the blood in
real life.
(50:44):
That scene, especially the scenewhere spoiler alert where he
kills paul allen, if you haven'tseen the movie or read the
novel, then well, it's notreally.
You know, come on, where haveyou been?
It's like not knowing theending of titanic, but well, I
mean spoiler alert for a bookthat was published in 1991 okay,
exactly, exactly, yeah, it's animportant scene.
You know, he, he takes oute andit's the.
It's the most famous scene inthe movie and so we're really
(51:06):
taking it seriously and tryingto play around with what's
possible in a small space.
But again, this is another.
It's another reason why I pickshows like this, because there's
all these different elements oftheater that are challenging
for a reason.
But here we are having theopportunity to put this stuff in
front of Houston audiences.
Most people I mean we'refinding this like most people
(51:26):
nobody knows that there's amusical.
You know, unless you're, like aniche theater person in New
York, or you know, or you, oryou just know it from being a
theater person.
Nobody knows that there's amusical.
But I've been really what'sbeen really cool is like just in
our current marketing efforts,like the people that have
responded to it by going oh, Ilove the movie and whoa, wait,
it's a musical.
Speaker 6 (51:45):
I mean, come on, okay .
So the london production mattsmith and jonathan bailey were
in it, which is amazing.
The broadway productionbenjamin walker helped workshop
it and then carried it on there.
I mean it definitely has apedigree to a degree.
I mean it's definitely one ofthose, but it is kind of one of
those that did not have a longrun, is not going to be well
known, did not tour around thecountry.
(52:06):
I mean, tuts is not going to bedoing this part of season,
whatever they're on right now.
So, yeah, I mean it's a, it's abold move and it's definitely
the show that I'm looking themost forward to this year.
I'm very excited that you'redoing it.
I think bringing it withHouston Broadway Theater and
doing it half Houston and halfBroadway brilliant stroke,
bringing in all of these peopleI mean I'm totally stoked for it
(52:28):
.
I mean I don't want you to getthe impression that I'm not, but
I do think it's a little bit.
What is the word?
Speaker 5 (52:34):
Well, you think it's risky?
I'm sure.
Speaker 6 (52:36):
It is definitely a risk.
It is definitely one of thosethings that you look at theater
and theater is about creatingsolutions to problems, and at
theater and theater is aboutcreating solutions to problems,
and I think that American Psychohas some really interesting
problems to solve.
So my hats are off to you fortaking that on, because this is
definitely not the simplestmusical that I've heard being
produced this year.
Speaker 5 (52:54):
Well, I'll tell you this because, like, from an
audience perspective, look,because sometimes when I think
about programming, I try tosimplify a lot of the times,
like, I just try to go, like, ifI'm just a muggle, so to speak,
right, and I'm going out for anight at the theater, well,
there's a lot of differentreasons why I can go and see a
show.
There's a lot of differentplaces that I can go and see a
show, or go to a concert instead, or go, like I have a lot of
(53:15):
choices, right, the going outfor an evening.
You have a lot of choices, andso we're trying to be a unique
choice.
I have so much respect for theamount of theater that we have
in Houston.
Like, I think the fact thatwe're, the fact that we we even
have the capability to be a newtheater company that has the
(53:36):
prospect of inviting in newaudiences, is because there are
already audience bases thatexist, that have been exposed to
theater at least in somecapacity, whether it is, like I
said, all those other placesthat I mentioned before.
And you're right, like Tuts isnot going to do American Psycho,
but that's also not what Tutsdoes.
How amazing is it and how, likeculturally significant?
(53:58):
Is it to be like you've gotSpelling Bee going on in Tuts
and the next door you have, likeyou know, someone's swinging an
axe and and blood firing?
Tuts is where I grew up.
We keep talking about tuts, butthat's that's where I I grew up
doing theater and I love allthe shows there and I love the
entire team there andprofessional sorry go ahead.
Speaker 6 (54:15):
Yeah, they're an amazing.
They're a legendary companyhere.
I mean obviously been aroundforever and done some of the
most ambitious things here and,and you know, originated some
shows here and definitelyspecialized like the disney type
musicals.
I mean beauty and the beaststarted here with them.
They've done a lot of thingslike that and fyi heathers was
at zilka hall and that'sactually how I produced that.
(54:36):
So there you go, and not todenigrate them, but it
definitely is an ambitiouschoice.
I think this what I'm trying tosay is that it definitely is a
risky, it's an edgy one, it'sone that I really, really
respect.
It says a lot to your integrityas an artist and a lot to your
ambition as somebody, as aproducer, to actually take this
project on, and I'm very excitedabout it.
I mean, it's definitely one ofthe shows that I am absolutely
(54:57):
looking forward to the most in2025.
Speaker 5 (54:59):
So it's gonna be cool , it's really gonna be cool,
just to remind everybody,american psycho, the actual
musical.
Speaker 6 (55:06):
And yes, there is a musical and it will run at the
hobby center september 2ndthrough the 14th, presented by
houston broadway theater.
Your director, again real quickwho?
Joe calarco.
And of course you've got anentire amazing technical team
taking this on and everythingelse, a bunch of cast members
that we can't even mention yet,but I'm sure as we get closer to
the date I'm going to pull youaside to do that.
(55:28):
But in the meantime, break legs, sever limbs, couple of axes to
some actors, whatever.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
This has been Queer Voices, heard on KPFT Houston
and as a podcast available fromseveral podcasting sources.
Check our webpagequeervoicesorg for more
information.
Queer Voices executive produceris Brian Levinka.
Debra Moncrief-Bell isco-producer Brett Cullum, davis
(56:05):
Mendoza-Druzman Eva MichelleGanz.
Mel Peterson and Joel Tatum arecontributors.
The News Wrap segment is partof another podcast called this
Way Out, which is produced inLos Angeles.
Speaker 7 (56:19):
Some of the material in this program has been edited
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This program does not endorseany no-transcript Views.
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Speaker 1 (56:32):
For Queer Voices.
I'm Glenn Holt, Thank you.
And now Houston's only primetime radio program
dedicated to news and concernsof the lesbi, gay and
transgender community.
This is Queer Voices.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello everybody, this is Queer Voices, a podcast and
radio show on KPFT 90.1 FMthat's been on air for several
decades as one of the oldestLGBTQ plus radio shows in the
United States.
From policy to pop culture,today's episode spans it all,
including a timely interviewwith 2025 Pride, houston ally,
(00:36):
grand Marshal, texasRepresentative John Rosenthal,
on Texas's mid-decaderedistricting and what these
maps could mean for voters, aswell as attacks on the LGBTQ
plus community at the statelegislature and more.
We close our show with a chatwith Tice Green from the
upcoming American Psycho musical, for a behind-the-scenes look
(00:56):
at the production's soundaesthetic and the thrill of
embodying a cult classic onstage.
It's a full slate, so we'reskipping the snippets.
Let's get right into it withour newest contributor, joel
Tatum, and his conversation withTexas Representative John
Rosenthal.
Queer Voices starts now.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I'm Joel Tatum and you're listening to Queer Voices
.
Today we're focusing on a highstakes fight unfolding in Austin
, as Democratic lawmakers wererefusing to return to the
statehouse, in a bold act ofresistance, walking out to deny
the Texas House a quorum andhalt a controversial mid-decade
redistricting plan that woulddramatically favor the
(01:38):
Republicans.
Let's chat about it today withDemocratic Representative John
Rosenthal of District 135.
Hi, John.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for inviting me.
I'm glad we can do this.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
We've got a lot of action going on, I see.
We do indeed, we do indeed, wedo indeed.
First of all, let's talk aboutuh, let's talk about the uh, the
two weeks out of town first,and what that, what that
experience was like for you, andgive us as much detail as you
would like okay.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
So, uh, it's been, it's definitely been a wild ride
.
You know the whole thing.
Um, while there was a lot ofplanning that was in place as
soon as we started the specialsession, pulling the trigger on
actually having all theDemocrats break quorum happened
very fast as soon as that racistredistricting power grab came
(02:42):
out of committee was when wedecided as a group to leave town
and we jumped on a plane andflew to Chicago.
And let me tell you, thesepeople have pulled out all the
stops you know to intimidate us,to coerce us, to threaten us.
They had DPS officers parkedoutside of our family's homes
(03:05):
even though we weren't there.
Some agitators were threateningindividuals.
We had one member who had tiresslashed.
It was really difficult andthat's before you get into the
attorney general coming after us, filing lawsuits in four
different states or somethinglike that, and trying to charge
(03:32):
Beto O'Rourke with a felony justfor fundraising for us.
You know he hadn't even givenus money when they were trying
to do that and of course that'sa free speech thing.
It's just ridiculous to do that.
And of course that's a freespeech thing.
It's just ridiculous.
But all these tactics chargingus, fining us $500 a day for
every calendar day.
For those who don't know, wemake $600 a month as state reps.
(04:01):
So when you charge us $500 aday, that comes out of your
pocket.
And it was actually specifiedin the rule that they made up
after the last corn break thatwe could not pay out of campaign
funds.
So this is supposed to come outof our or out of our office
accounts.
So they're really trying tomake it painful on us personally
.
But you know what?
We all signed up and wepersevered and we killed that
(04:23):
bill for the entire first calledsession.
We brought national attentionto the issue and now it's all
over the news and California hasstarted their special session
for a trigger redistricting map.
That would that the state wouldvote on the ability to
(04:44):
temporarily adopt and set asidetheir nonpartisan redistricting
commission just to offset theseats that could be lost in
Texas.
Now that does not help ourpeople, you know, and you're in
Houston with me, right.
So they're gonna, you know,really change the boundaries of
(05:07):
Congressional 18, which is ahistoric district that Barbara
Jordan served in.
Sheila, jackson Lee, craigWashington, you know, sylvester
Turner was in that seat MickeyLeland some real icons of Texas
history.
They are black history in Texas, and then Congressional 9 will
no longer be winnable for AlGreen, so they're trying to
(05:31):
redistrict him out of his seatand it's a real mess.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Well, you guys have been.
First of all, you've beenkeeping Ken Paxton bouncing all
over the place, which is I'mtrying to keep, I'm trying to be
as unbiased as possible, but itis, it is hilarious.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
So from an unbiased view.
He's easily one of the mostcorrupt politicians in the
history of this state.
He was impeached by the TexasHouse of Representatives and
half of the Republicans voted toimpeach him.
It was so obvious and soegregious.
And the lieutenant governorliterally you know they talk
about taking bribes and thatstuff Lieutenant governor took
(06:14):
three million dollars from fromPaxton allies and campaign
contribution and that's notconsidered a bribe.
That's not considered a bribe.
And then, lo and behold, thelieutenant governor then used
the Senate to acquit Ken Paxtonof his charges of misuse of
office, bribery, corruption, youknow all kinds of misdeeds.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
So let's, let's get into when you make it back to
town.
We have a representative I'mgoing to make.
I'm hoping I got her last nameright Representative Collier.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Yeah, Nicole Collier is one of my sheroes.
Nicole Collier is the is one ofthe best of us the House
Democratic Caucus, so she's oneof our more esteemed and
talented members out of theDallas area.
And she refused to sign thepermission slip where we agreed
if we were leaving the chamberto have a police escort.
(07:21):
So she refused to do that and,as a result, they have kept her
locked in the Capitol in theHouse chamber.
She slept there last night inan act of open defiance and
righteousness.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
If I recall and I just read this today I think she
has thrown in a lawsuit as well.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
I'm sure, that's true .
She's a very talented attorneyand, like I said, the best and
the brightest of us, with quiet,confidence and experience.
And so here's.
Here's some little insidebaseball stuff.
When we choose our uh seatingassignment in the house chamber,
we get to do that by seniorityand and I moved my seat this
(08:05):
time so I could sit next toNicole Collier so Rafael Anchia,
who's another great talentedlawyer and one of our senior
members out of Dallas, is mydeskmate, and then right on the
other side is Nicole Collier andshe, like, I think I'm a good
researcher, I'm an oil fieldengineer and I'm a total wonky
nerd kind of person.
(08:25):
I do a lot of research.
I do not come close to thepreparation that nicole collier
does.
She is.
She is amazing, like in reallife, totally amazing and, um at
large, in charge with thisquiet.
You never see her yelling orgetting visibly, you know,
(08:46):
agitated.
She is just cool and calm andslices people apart with a
scalpel.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
She is truly amazing and, as a Democratic voter, I
need to ask this question Shouldwe be extremely worried?
Should we be with all this,with all this redistricting
(09:12):
madness?
I, I will, I will call it.
Should we be worried?
Speaker 4 (09:18):
uh, yes, absolutely, and I think, uh, people across
the country are worried becausewhat's happening I mean the the
issue in tex, texas, obviouslyis local, and they're going to
dismantle historic districts andcombine districts and try and
force some of our greatcongressional representatives
(09:39):
out.
But really, if the way tocombat this is fighting fire
with fire, which is whatDemocrats are doing finally
(10:04):
redraw their maps every timethey have an election, if one
side or the other, whoever's incharge, thinks they're going to
lose that, that really deprivespeople of their ability to pick
their representatives.
So you have um partisans andparty bosses in washington and
virginia drawing these maps andthey choose the voters to keep
certain people in office.
It's supposed to be the votersselecting our representatives,
(10:29):
right?
It's supposed to be the otherway around.
And so the real push here needsto be for a federal law to
outlaw partisan gerrymanderingacross the board.
Let there be fair maps, letpeople have contests of ideas
and let communities of commoninterest be collected together
to elect the leaders torepresent them in government.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
And with the bid terms coming up, how do you
think, in your opinion, how doyou think, democrats will fare
in the midterms?
Speaker 4 (11:05):
How do you think Democrats will fare in the
midterms?
So, even with all theredistricting and the
prognosticating and everythingelse, I don't think they're
quite taking into account thebacklash that that we may see
from this, from the horribleadministration.
Like I hate to even use theconvicted felon in the White
House.
I hate to even use theconvicted felon in the White
House, I hate to even use hisname.
(11:26):
But if their policies are sobad that they have to rig the
maps to try to keep control ofCongress, you know that they are
running scared.
They're desperate to keepcontrol because they know that
Democrats are likely to takecontrol of the House and maybe
the Senate too.
And I'm going to add this thelast time that dude was
(11:49):
president, when thatadministration came in and they
were off the rails.
Crazy was actually whatinspired me to run for office,
and this district where I'msitting in right now House
District 135 had beenrepresented by a Republican for
the same guy for 24 years and hehad beat the last opponent by
(12:10):
10 points in 2016.
But in 2018, I came back andbeat him by two, so that was a
12-point swing in what wasconsidered a ruby-red district
in northwest Harris County.
So all I got to say is it'sgonna be on, baby like democrats
rising up.
People are up and down theballot, motivated and activated,
(12:34):
and there is a possibility thatdemocrats are going to win some
races that are not expected towin, like like I did in 2018.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
And do you see do I want to call it a policy change
in the Democratic Party?
Do you see the rise ofprogressives in the party?
As we're watching the mayoralrace in New York, which is
fascinating it is really themost fascinating race I think
(13:05):
I've ever watched, and I'm noteven in New York so seeing more
progressive.
We've seen pushback from someDemocrats in New York about
progressives and now we've got aprogressive on the ballot who
could possibly win.
He's probably going to win, sohow are the Democrats handling
the idea who could possibly win?
(13:26):
I think he's probably going towin.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
So how are the Democrats handling the idea of
more progressives coming intothe party?
So I actually have a prettysalty take on this, like I'm a
progressive Democrat and no onepeople thought I had to be a
centrist.
And while you know, I like tothink I'm pragmatic, I'm a
progressive, especially onsocial policy, social justice,
equity, justice, that sort ofthing.
(13:52):
Here's the way I see it.
These sort of I don't knowcorporate centrist dems, sort of
the old school Democrats thathave been in office a long time,
they're all scared and think aprogressive can't win or
whatever.
It's like.
Yo, you need to read the room.
(14:13):
This guy is about to win themayoral race in New York and the
big time like party powerbrokers that are flipping out
over this because they're goingto have someone they can't
control.
Like I think they need to getused to it.
I think it's it's going to beprogressives that are going to
(14:33):
be the heart of a major surge inCongress, probably in the
Senate, in statehouse racesacross the country.
That's what our base wants andthat's really at this point.
Progressive policies are stufflike let's make people safe,
let's feed children, let'seducate the population, the
(14:53):
population like it's not exactlywingnut stuff.
It's the things that everybodywants and um, and we're just
fine and part of my partisanship.
But we're just finding thatrepublicans have chosen to
abandon their morals and theirvalues and all they do is serve
a convicted felon in the whitehouse, and that's not going to
fly.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
I actually had a question.
I had a question on my brainand I lost it, and I'm so sorry,
john, for that, but I wanted tofind out how are Democrats now
going to reach out to the voterswho kind of betrayed the party?
Uh, in 2024, uh, by puttingthis man in office, uh, in the
(15:45):
first place?
We're talking, uh, how do wereach young men?
How do we reach, uh, theimmigrant population?
How do we reach right?
Speaker 4 (15:53):
so the first thing I'm going to say is I'm looking
at you michigan democrats whocould not vote for kamala harris
, and how's that working outright now?
So, um, it needs to be.
Uh, it really needs to be.
Campaigning itself needs to bereimagined and re-envisioned.
So we have to reach voterswhere they consume information
(16:15):
and and the traditional campaignmodels, while that will still
have value, the regularadvertisements and yard signs
and and definitely block walking.
Certainly knocking on doors ishow I won spaces.
(16:38):
So the podcasts and the radioshows and going on TV and having
our progressives step into thelion, the lion's den on Fox News
and One America, whatever,whatever, like, we have got to
get our message out.
Part of the problem that we hadin the last cycle was, by the
time the Democrats were knockingon doors, people had already
made up their minds because ofthe information they're
consuming, you know, online andon TV and on talk radio, and so
(17:00):
we have got to compete in thosespaces.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Because, let's face it, podcasting was exactly how
we won, and it was throughpodcast that this I don't like
to say his name either, but forthe show, this is how Trump
actually won a lot of votersthat were maybe sitting on the
(17:24):
fence.
He won a lot of young men,especially young men, won a lot
of young men, and now there's alot of buyers remorse, of course
.
Lot of buyers remorse, ofcourse.
Uh, so basically put, you'renow going to have to reach out
to those voters who now havebuyers remorse, who have now
realized that their votes werewell dumb.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
So well, when your grandma loses her health care,
when you have trouble gettingvaccines for your children to go
to school, when schooldistricts are closing campuses
and underfunded and can't keepteachers around, you know it
doesn't matter whether if youlive in the city or the suburbs
(18:06):
or rural texas.
There's some stuff that we allcare about that these people in
washington are just plainscrewing up right now, and that
has to be our message not justthat they're screwing up, but
that we have real solidsolutions, that we are coming
with progressive policies thatwill serve the public.
Whether you live in the middleof red, rural whatever, or you
(18:31):
live in the heart of Houston,texas, or in the Valley or in
the Panhandle, no matter whereyou are, this stuff reaches you,
and I think people that havebeen unaffected before are now
having it actually touch theirlives.
You know all those people whoused to say I don't like to pay
attention to politics, like Itry to stay out of it.
If you do not, um, you may notbe involved in politics, but
(18:57):
politics is involved with you,and so, uh, if you fail to
exercise your vote, these peoplecan do whatever they want and
just basically rob our country,rob your tax dollars to give
billionaires, you know moremoney.
Tax breaks like nobody thinksthat's OK and do you?
Speaker 3 (19:17):
how do you?
Ok, I'm sorry, let me, let meget.
Let's talk about the midtermsfor a little bit.
Let's talk about the Democrats.
Were to win both the House andthe Senate, what's the first
thing that you think Democratsneed to do day one?
Speaker 4 (19:37):
What's the first thing that you think Democrats
need to do day one?
Day one is remove thefilibuster in the Senate, and
day two is pass a voting rightslegislation that that outlaws
gerrymandering, political votepicking, whatever you want to
call it, vote picking, whateveryou want to call it.
Enshrined voting rights in ournational law.
(20:01):
And then, if you ask me youknow I'm a progressive If you
want to balance things outstatehood for Washington DC and
Puerto Rico, add a few justicesto the Supreme Court and let's
take away that the partisanadvantage that has been handed
to conservatives with theElectoral College, where you
(20:23):
know, if you look at history,like North and South Dakota
became two states so they couldhave four senators.
Those two states put togetherhave less population than the
city I live in and so they don't, they shouldn't have four
senators when California onlyhas two and Texas, you know,
only has two, and so you couldreally change the balance of
(20:46):
power.
And then you have to put, youhave to balance the Supreme
court with justices who areactually serious about the law
and not creating a partisanpolicy from the bench of the
Supreme Court, and then, if youwant to go for really good
measure, I would do term limitson all of us, including the
Supreme Court, and then maybe wecan get back to some good
(21:10):
governance, that's, of thepeople, by the people, for the
people of the people, by thepeople, for the people.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
What about uh now?
What about um finally gettingthe vote on uh, the equal rights
amendment?
Because I why right?
Why have we not?
Speaker 4 (21:27):
when, as a kid, when that thing was first being uh
talked about in congress so yeah, federal equal rights amendment
that establishes all humanshave rights, whether you're, no
matter what the color of yourskin or your or your ethnic
background, or if you're lgbt,or if you're, you know, native
(21:48):
american or whatever you know.
Right now, if they pass thesemaps in texas, a black person's
vote will will count one onefifth what a white person's vote
counts.
Hispanic person's vote willcount one third what a white
person's vote was.
So if you look at the racistcrap that was built into the
Constitution the three fifthsthing they are literally trying
(22:12):
to do that again bygerrymandering these districts.
So so we got to get some equityhappening and equal rights
amendment.
I've said this over and overHuman rights are human rights.
Trans rights are human rights.
People everywhere should havethe right to live free, live
(22:33):
their lives fully expressed inany way, pursue happiness in any
way they choose.
As long as you're not messingwith someone else, you should be
able to do what you do.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
You know what I mean.
That's a fantastic answer, John.
Thank you for that?
Because I'm curious why have wenot, but we have enough states?
Why have we not, but we have?
We have this, we have enoughstates, right?
Why have we not put the erathrough?
We've had years to do this andI don't know why the democratic
party, we've had freakingdecades.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Like it boggles my imagination how this isn't like
what.
How long, what is it going totake in this country to decide
every human living here hashuman rights.
Like, don't all humans deservehuman rights?
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I'm just saying what do you think is the future of
Texas as far as you're concernedwith voting and everything else
?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
That's a really good question.
So, um, people continue to flowinto this state at uh, more
people move to texas than anyother state in the union.
We have quite a bit of influxfrom uh, from california and new
york uh in and you know, inbetween 2010 2020, states
population grew by four millionpeople and that was half
(23:59):
Hispanic and and the nextbiggest chunk was
African-American.
And then more AAPI moved in toTexas than white people.
So in the last five years,since 2020, that trend has
stayed exactly the same 96% ofour population growth is black
(24:19):
and brown.
So black, hispanic, asian, aapiand other.
So, while no population ismonolithic and you can't say,
just because someone is thiscolor or that background or came
from this state or that state,that does not determine their
partisan affiliation, but Ithink, um, if you employ policy
(24:41):
that serves the people, then youwill win at the ballot box.
And uh, and this state is doingsuper racist stuff right now
with uh, alien land laws, wherethey just enacted senate bill 17
in this session that does notallow people from china to buy
land in this state.
I mean it like we're going backto like world war one, civil
(25:04):
war, uh, stuff that just peopledon't like it.
They think it's unfair and andthe truth is, conservatives like
conscientious conservatives.
You remember back in day weused to be able to have
reasonable discussions withpeople we disagreed with and our
Republican friends.
We could debate the finerpoints of policy and how you
(25:26):
should do this or that.
You know we need to get back tothat.
Well, until we have a newsystem in place.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
I know, as a voter, I miss.
I so miss those days.
I miss the days when voting wasboring, when the news was
boring.
That is the honest statement tosay, but I miss the days when
voting was boring.
I voted straight Democrat, washome and was 15 minutes in, 15
(25:57):
minutes out.
That's that's all I'm as avoter.
That's all I'm supposed to do.
Now I'm being drawn into thingsthat I'm like.
Now I have to have opinionsabout things.
Now I have to think about how Iwant to approach people.
Now I have to think about whomy friends are.
I've lost quite a fewfriendships due to the 2024
(26:19):
election.
I've had to cut family membersoff due to the 2024 election.
So I yes, I miss those days.
I completely do.
Will we ever see those daysagain?
It may I'm.
Are we looking?
It may take about a couple ofgenerations before that happens.
It days again.
It may I'm.
Are we looking?
They may take about a couple ofgenerations before that happens
.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
It may or it may not.
So the way that things breakonce something starts to
movement, gains momentum, stuffhappens very quickly and of
course we're seeing that rightnow with this authoritarian
shift.
But I think, uh, once peopleget fed up enough, there will be
a breaking point.
I think this whole epstein filecontroversy, that sort of thing
(27:00):
is, is the sort of thing thatmight feed this.
And well, I think it's notsuper substantive.
You know, like I didn't care ifbill clinton got you know in
the overall oval office, Iactually don't care if care if
some of these leaders were on anEpstein jet at one time or
another.
Now, if they're pedophiles, weshould act on that accordingly.
(27:22):
But what I'm saying is remember,at the end of the McCarthy era,
people were afraid to speak outwhile that was going on and
they would be accused of this orthat.
It sort of has a ring like likehistory rhymes and right now
anybody speaking out against youknow donald trump is going to
(27:44):
get primaried or whatever.
At some point, you know enoughpeople will wake up and be like
the famous line you know, haveyou no decency, sir?
Because human beings, I think,are naturally decent and it
takes some learning.
Someone has to teach you tohate people, and so at some
(28:06):
point I hope people will kind ofreturn.
I've never lost my faith inhumanity, although it gets
shaken sometimes.
But you have to think people ofgood conscience at some point
will go hey, that's wrong.
It's just wrong, thisredistricting thing.
It's just wrong.
You're changing the rules inthe middle of the game because
(28:27):
you know you're going to lose.
No one would put up with thatin a football game or a
basketball game, like oh, myteam's going to lose, so we're
going to change out all the refs.
Oh, my team's going to lose, sowe're going to change out all
the refs.
And now my team every shot theytake will be worth four points,
and the other team every shotthey take will be worth one
point.
Nobody thinks that's okay.
No one wants to see that.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
And you know we're just about out of time.
What do you want to say tovoters about everything that has
happened up until today, in thelast two weeks?
What do you want to say tovoters?
Speaker 4 (29:04):
I want to say if you haven't paid attention before,
the time is now.
Pay attention, be involved,find out who represents you.
You can Google in Texas.
You can google who representsme.
Brings up a form and put inyour address.
You get all the contactinformation for everybody that
represents you.
Engage with those people, checkthem out, learn what they're
(29:25):
about and then um call theiroffices.
Like we keep records of thatstuff.
The people must let theirelected employees know what they
want.
We're employees, we'retemporaries in these roles, so
politicians need to learn torespect their voters, and the
way they do that is by havingyou engage.
(29:47):
So please get engaged and makesure no one stays silent.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Two more questions and then we're going to call it
a day John.
Two more questions and thenwe're gonna we're gonna call it
a day john.
Um, any, uh, any uh.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Thoughts of, uh, maybe a major run later on in
your, in your future, maybe fora national office or something
like that.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
I've jokingly called you senator several times, so
I've often well not running forSenate and I so there's.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
You know you can't help but think about certain
things.
I'm, while we're in the middleof all this, I'm kind of putting
off all of that sort of thoughtand conversation.
You know where I got.
I'm not going to run for Senateor for Congress, so let's right
now.
My intent is to run to keep theHD 135 seat in Democrat hands,
(30:41):
of course, and I'm also workingon school board elections.
So the down ballot races aresuper important.
And if you didn't think itmattered who sits on your school
board, if you live in Cy Fairor Katie School District, it
matters now.
So I would just encourageeverybody to be involved.
(31:02):
And then, if you end up seeingmy name on a ballot, it's hard
to imagine I would do that thistime, but weirder stuff happens
all the time, so I would juststay tuned.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Weirder stuff happens all the time, so I would just
stay tuned.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Well being that you were no that you still are Grand
Marshal ally of Houston Pride.
I'm so proud of that.
It's just such an amazing.
That whole thing has been suchan amazing deal and I don't know
if folks want to go look atsome of my speeches on the house
floor.
There's a reason why folks uhfelt like nominating me for that
honor and then, once beingnamed, I I have continued to
(31:47):
speak out, to be vocal, to goafter those people.
They go after, they go afterany communities, but especially
like these folks like to usetrans people as political fodder
.
It's like yo, these are humanbeings just trying to live their
lives.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Leave them the fuck alone and I, I think we, I think
we've asked all the questionswe can ask.
And you know what, john, I'm sograteful that you sat down with
me and talked to the queervoices community to let them
know exactly what they need toknow and how they need to get
(32:23):
involved.
Any social media you want topush, any anything that you know
that voters can maybe reach you, and, and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
Here's.
Here's a quick little secret.
If you google john rosenthalcell phone, my cell phone number
comes up, because I used itwhen I first ran for office like
one person working on thecampaign and you have to write a
campaign contact.
It was me.
So that's one thing, but youcan also find me on like the
website formerly known asTwitter.
(32:58):
I'm John J-O-N, underscoreRosenthal TX, or Facebook or
Instagram, and actually if youmessage me, I'll usually answer
you.
It may not be immediately, butI like to be easy to find.
Folks should be able to findtheir elected employees and tell
us what you want from us.
(33:19):
So, um, yeah, please find me onsocial media.
Reach out.
John rosenthal tx is thewebsite like.
You can find me that way.
We're in the middle of anupgrade on that thing.
Hopefully it'll come out nice,but, uh, find me well, you know
what.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Thank you, john, for being on our show and, ladies
and gentlemen, you were.
You were just listening to JohnRosenthal, representative of
District 135.
Thank you, john, for being onthe show, and we're going to
catch up with you next time,because we need more updates, we
need to know what's going on,so I'm hoping yeah, hit me up in
a week or two.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
I will probably have some stuff going on, got it.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
So thank you, John, and we will see you next time.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Before we get to our conversation between contributor
Brett Cullum and founder ofHouston Broadway Theater and
star of the upcoming AmericanPsycho Musical, all of our
episodes need to be exactly 58minutes long and currently we're
at 56 minutes and 10 seconds.
So here to fill one minute and50 seconds of content.
I'm here to talk about nextweek's episode.
(34:23):
As you may know, Houston, wheremany of our team live and
operate, has a lot of LGBTQ plusserving organizations and a lot
of coalitions.
We have the Harris County LGBTQPlus Commission, we have Queens
of Houston or Queer UnifiedEmergency and Empowerment
Network, and we have the Mayor'sLGBTQ Plus Advisory Board, the
(34:45):
latter of which has gotten a lotof media attention due to the
abrupt firing of their chairunder the former mayor.
Next week, our episode will bededicated to the former and new
chair of that advisory board, sobe sure to tune in next week.
Let's get to our finalinterview of the episode with
Tice Green, founder of HoustonBroadway Theater and star of the
(35:05):
upcoming American Psychomusical, Brett Cullum.
Take it away.
Speaker 6 (35:11):
Tice Green is the founder and artistic director of
Houston Broadway Theater.
He started his acting careerhere in Houston with several
companies, including Tuts andStages, and then he ran off to
New York City and went there andbecame a model.
He became an actor, he became asinger.
He has tons of hits with hisrock and roll style cabaret
performances, even made an albumwith legendary producer and
(35:33):
writer Jim Steinman, who wrotefor Meatloaf, bonnie Tyler and
someone named Celine Dion I'mnot so sure if you know her and
Barbra Streisand.
Tice has appeared on ProjectRunway as one of the male models
for several seasons and one ofhis biggest latest gigs was an
Andrew Lloyd Webber touringproduction of Jesus Christ
Superstar.
And Tice starred in lastseason's Next to normal, which
(35:56):
was houston broadway theater'sauspicious debut, and it was one
of the best shows of the lastyear by a long shot, even when
you compare it to othercompanies.
Well, now he's back and so ishouston broadway theater with
american psycho, the musicalrunning at the hobby center
september 2nd through the 14th.
So nice to see you again, tice.
(36:17):
Hello, hello, all right, let'sjust my first question and this
is the elephant in the roomAmerican Psycho.
Are you insane?
Because this is a cult musicaland you are bringing its
regional debut to Houston.
London and New York wereshocked by this.
It had a really hard timefinding audiences.
How are you going to get awaywith murder and show tunes in
Houston?
Great question.
Speaker 5 (36:38):
Pass.
No, I'm just kidding.
Well, as a new theater company,what we're really trying to do
is we're trying to bring titlesto Houston that have not been
here, or it's been a really longtime since they've been here,
or they've never been here inthe capacity that we're bringing
them.
How do we find those audiencesbeen here in the capacity that
we're bringing them?
How do we find those audiences?
(36:58):
I think that the reason that weexist is because those
audiences exist and they don'thave a place to go.
They don't have a placecurrently where.
Where can you go and see whattheater company here is going to
produce American Psycho and doit at the Hobby Center?
My big vision in creating thistheater company was we have so
many amazing small theatercompanies here that do 99 seat
(37:19):
theater and black box theaterand that programming is really
well handled with existingcompanies.
And then we have behemothcompanies, you know, like the
alley and tuts.
These are just like giant,giant organizations where you go
into these you know 2,000,3,000 seat theaters.
I think that there's somethingwhere you know if you do really
(37:40):
interesting titles on a reallybig scale.
We're working to try to findthose audiences.
I picked American Psycho thisyear because for a couple of
reasons.
One is it's never had not onlyhas it never had a Houston debut
, our production is the firstunion regional production.
It has been produced a coupleof times at what are called
non-equity theaters, which justmeans that the actors are
(38:03):
non-union and there's you know,they're usually kind of smaller
scale stuff Ours is going to bethe biggest production that the
show has ever had regionally.
We're also very lucky in thatDuncan Sheik, who wrote the
music, is working on it with us.
He is lending his hand to giveus insight.
So that's exciting, especiallyfor a regional theater.
American Psycho is veryinteresting in 2025, because, if
(38:28):
you strip away the horror of itall and the Patrick Bateman of
it all, it's ultimately a storyabout identity.
Patrick is ultimately this guywho is trying to find his
footing in.
The whole show is really aboutthe bastardization of the
American dream set in the late80s Glamour and money and who's
got the best clothes and goes tothe best restaurants.
(38:50):
And it's an interestingcommentary to see in 2025
because we're seeing a reallybig gap, a big disparity between
the classes.
Depending upon what side of thepolitical spectrum you are, I
think the story impacts you in adifferent way.
If you're coming to the storyof a more conservative viewed
person, I think it's going toimpact you in one way.
(39:13):
If you're coming to the theateras a more liberal and
left-leaning person, it's goingto impact you in a very
different way.
Houston is a city that is quitediverse in both culture and
political leaning.
Our audiences, I think, aregoing to be filled with people
that have a mixture of views andcultural backgrounds, so that's
going to be very interesting tosee what their response is.
Speaker 6 (39:34):
Let me geek out a little bit here for a second.
I absolutely was thrilled tosee the announcement that it was
American Psycho and I was likeyou're kidding me.
This is amazing.
I love Brett Easton Ellis.
I have read every one of hisbooks.
I read the book when it cameout in 1991.
Brett admitted a little bitlater that it was a very
personal book for him, that hefelt like it was something that
he slipped into into PatrickBateman's world where he lived
(39:57):
in this kind of consumerist voidthat was supposed to give him
confidence but really made himfeel just completely isolated
and not there.
If you flash forward about 10years, in 2000, mary Herron
directed a movie of it and thebook was considered unfilmable
because of the graphic violenceand all of the things that have
happened in the book, and Maryreally introduced a satirical
element into it, just like inBrett's books, that maybe it's
(40:20):
not as real as we think it isand maybe it's not as real as
Patrick thinks it is.
So the musical Duncan Sheik,roberto Aguirre-Sacasa is that
what I'm saying?
Yeah, all right, he's famousfor comic book writing as well
as plays Duncan Sheik, obviouslymaking it more of a rock thing,
which makes sense for you andyour company.
By the way, I've never seen themusical.
I've heard it, but I've neverhad a chance to, and I think
(40:41):
that's one of the things that'sreally exciting is that Houston
is actually going to have achance to see this, when it has
been very limited produced.
I was looking through theproductions and significant ones
that I can find are like 2013in London, 2016 in Broadway,
2019 Sydney, 2023 in Chicago.
It won all kinds of awards thatyear and there is a 2026 London
revival which is set to go upas well, so it's a great time to
(41:05):
do it.
So don't I'm totally excitedabout it, but I think it's a.
It's a tough sell in a weirdway, because there was so much
controversy around everyiteration of this piece of work.
It is kind of interesting tosee it as a commentary on
delusion.
Maybe tell me a little bitabout your cast.
Speaker 5 (41:20):
It's a half Houston cast and a half Broadway cast,
so that's always been built into.
Our mission is to have notnecessarily half exactly every
single time, but the missionfrom both backstage to onstage
is to mix Houston professionalswith Broadway professionals.
There are some there's a coupleof people in the in the cast
that are coming to us likedirectly from having graduated
(41:41):
at Sam Houston.
This is their firstprofessional regional show, so
that's pretty cool too, I think.
The makeup of all the differentkinds of people.
We also have people in the showthat have Broadway credits,
that are from Houston originally, that live in New York now, but
now they're coming back home inorder to be in the show.
That's how I grew up doingtheater.
I was always in shows and castthat did that.
The way that I learned how tobe a professional was it was
(42:04):
less about getting propertraining in a classroom and it
was more about just being thrustinto a show.
And then I was 19 doing theSound of Music.
I was playing Rolf and theCaptain Von Trapp was the
longest running beast onBroadway.
I just thought that was thecoolest thing.
And then Maria was.
She was like the only woman inthe history of Les Mis to have
(42:24):
ever played both Fontaine andCosette, like she started as
Cosette and then she graduatedto Fontaine and you know,
between the two of them they hadlike 15 Broadway credit.
Speaker 6 (42:32):
It's a tough show to cast, I think because you've got
a lot of men in their mid 20sand it's a very specific look.
It's a very specific act.
Duncan Sheik has written a veryspecific score that sounds late
80s, early 90s kind of pop rock.
It's tough to execute.
So I mean, was that hard tofind the people that could
actually approach this?
(42:53):
Because this is not youraverage musical.
The score is very interesting.
Speaker 5 (42:56):
You're right, there are some 80s tunes that are
infused into it.
What is unique about thehandful of 80s tunes that are
infused in it is that they areall completely rearranged.
You know, usually in jukeboxmusicals and this isn't a
jukebox musical, but usuallywhen you have existing songs,
pop songs that are infused in amusical, they're kind of musical
theater, if I'd, but they'repretty much like the originals,
(43:17):
like you know, because the wholepoint is to have something in
the show that people recognizeand they and they, you know, is
mimicked on stage.
With this show it's verydifferent.
Like you know, there arethere's like a choral
arrangement of in the airtonight by phil collins, which
is very different than theoriginal.
So I think the way that it'sinfused in the show is very
interesting.
And then, yeah, his music.
(43:38):
You know, I would I hope Idon't get in trouble for saying
this, but I would I would go sofar as to say the show is
definitely set in like 1989.
The music feels way more 90s.
It's like it's a little bitmore electronic and has more of
like a clubby kind of sound toit.
But I think I don't thinkthat's anything that Duncan
wouldn't say.
So you're right.
Speaker 6 (43:57):
In his defense.
Tice, I was there and I cantell you that the sound of the
show.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
From what I've heard is pretty true to 1989.
Speaker 6 (44:10):
It's definitely.
It does have that vibe, becauseyou have to remember that when
we were crossing decades,usually the decade starts right
in the tail end of it, and thenthe 90s kind of started in 89.
They were kind of movingtowards that.
So this is a very show that issteeped in the late 80s, early
90s, and I heard that veryprominently in the soundtrack.
Absolutely, but I do agree withyou, it was what became popular
(44:33):
in the 90s but it was definitelysomething that was bubbling up
through the clubs at that point,but it's one of the things
that's interesting to me aboutduncan's.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
Like you said, he's taking songs that aren't
necessarily club songs, like inthe air tonight, and made them
kind of commentaries in the showand things like that, and
that's definitely not one thatsounds slick and because it is,
I mean you can count it.
Like you said, there's beenthere has been a production in
Chicago, at least in the US, anda production in after Broadway
production in Chicago and aproduction DC.
(45:11):
They were both small black boxproductions that got a lot of
acclaim, but that's it and wehad a lot of turnout for the
show and it was really coolseeing in the in the auditions.
We auditions both in houstonand in new york and I mean there
were some people that walked ininto the new york auditions
where I went.
Really, you like you, you wantto do it like you want to do our
(45:32):
show.
Okay, you want to come down tohouston person who I've seen?
Do you know three, fourbroadway shows?
You know, to speak to yourpoint about the film director
and about you know thedifference between the, the
novel, and the film, the musical, also its own version.
What we're finding is thatthere's a.
There's a pretty starkdifference between what the
script calls for and what theoriginal broadway direction was
(45:56):
like.
Rupert gold was the broadwaydirector and he's also directing
it again at the alameda inlondon, coming up for the
revival.
He started it more grounded andit sort of got way more surreal
as the show progressed.
And then by the end of it inthe second act you've got
Patrick in his underwear almostSunset Boulevard style now you
would call it drenched in blood,doing scenes where the other
(46:18):
people in the scene don'tacknowledge that he looks like
that and they just do sort of aregular scene.
So that was very like surreal.
The movie is satirical in a waythat it's coming from a real
place.
But then there's just theselike kind of wacky I would go so
far as to say like a littlecartoony sometimes.
Like there is a.
There is definitely like athread of heightenedness that is
(46:42):
in the movie that comes withthis kind of tongue in cheek,
wink, wink kind of thing, andit's also very 80s.
The movie, the fashion is very80s.
They were not afraid to do likea boxy suit, teased hair, like
you know, so they went reallyfull on that.
The musical kind of like themusic, dipped a little bit more
into the 90s with a little bitmore kind of slimmer silhouettes
(47:02):
and I think it kind ofsuspended disbelief there.
On the fashion, I'll tell you,like our production, we really
are trying to start it and keepit as grounded as possible and I
think the reason for that is,like the the director, joe
calarco, no matter what thesubject matter is, he's always
looking to strengthen therelationships between the
characters.
Relationships are everything onstage, regardless of what the
(47:25):
cadence is or the tone.
Everything is just about peopleinteracting with each other and
what those relationships areabout and what they want from
each other and what theconflicts are.
It is way less graphic than thenovel.
The show accomplishes paringdown some of the really really
crazy vulgarity of the novel.
The show accomplishes paringdown some of the really really
crazy vulgarity of the novel butretains the groundedness.
(47:52):
We're not playing super highsatire.
I think that the musicalelements in the show lend
themselves to the satire.
It's a musical right, so amusical already has a little bit
of like we're singing, so youcan't take us too seriously,
anyway.
So I'm excited about it becauseI think there's an opportunity
to let the satire come through,but really come through from a
grounded place.
And I'm interested to see howpeople respond to that, because
(48:15):
I think when it's played reallyreal and really straightforward
and the jokes are just funnybecause they're being played in
a very real way, then you startasking those questions.
Like you said, one of thecoolest parts of this whole
story whether it's the novel orthe movie or the musical is
there are moments in the in theshow and in the story where you
go.
Is that really happening or isthat in his mind?
(48:36):
And I think when you play itfrom a grounded place it makes
it harder for the audience toknow that and it allows for a
lot more interpretation.
I think it's cool.
That's.
Speaker 6 (48:43):
That's one of my favorite parts about the whole
story you know, I want to askyou a little bit about the tech
you mentioned next to normal,and the tech for next to normal
was amazing, it was really great.
But you guys ran one weekendand then with this one you've
got september 2nd through the14th.
So you, you grounded a littlebit, a little bit longer run Is
the set.
I mean again a challenging set.
(49:06):
I mean there's a ton oflocations here, it's ice.
Speaker 5 (49:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (49:13):
You have to go to Les Mis at intermission.
I mean, come on.
Speaker 5 (49:16):
You sound like my production manager.
Okay, stop yelling at me.
Speaker 6 (49:19):
The sets are going to be wild.
How are you going to solve thatpart of it?
Speaker 5 (49:27):
Yeah, well, and we have.
So we have a set design that'sdone and we're in, we're in
pre-production now and you knowwe've been able to zilk has a
small space and so, withoutgiving too much away, we've been
able to kind of not dissimilarto next to normal, like kind of
create a playground where thingscan come on and off and small
pieces and props can come on, tokind of create, you know, this
new setting and then go off andthen we go over here to this
side and we're in this newsetting, we're, we're playing
(49:50):
around with more projections.
Speaker 6 (49:52):
There's some interesting tv elements involved
and it has to be becausePatrick Bateman is obsessed with
television, so yeah, you haveto have that in there.
And then the gore.
Speaker 5 (50:03):
That's a whole world unto itself as well this is the
the first time I've ever been ina production meeting where the
word blood canon was used.
And, you know, one of us askedwe were like, what exactly is a
blood canon?
That's interesting.
That's one of the things we'vehad to sort out is, like,
because that's that's specialeffects, and figuring out how
we're going to do that, and andI don't want to give it away,
(50:23):
but what I will tell you is thatthe conversations that were had
were like okay, do we, in thisworld of digital screens and
stuff, do we animate the blood?
Do we, you know, do we utilizea Sunset Boulevard style thing
where you've got like one thinghappening up here on a screen
but then, you know, thensuddenly you see the blood in
real life.
(50:44):
That scene, especially the scenewhere spoiler alert where he
kills paul allen, if you haven'tseen the movie or read the
novel, then well, it's notreally.
You know, come on, where haveyou been?
It's like not knowing theending of titanic, but well, I
mean spoiler alert for a bookthat was published in 1991 okay,
exactly, exactly, yeah, it's animportant scene.
You know, he, he takes oute andit's the.
It's the most famous scene inthe movie and so we're really
(51:06):
taking it seriously and tryingto play around with what's
possible in a small space.
But again, this is another.
It's another reason why I pickshows like this, because there's
all these different elements oftheater that are challenging
for a reason.
But here we are having theopportunity to put this stuff in
front of Houston audiences.
Most people I mean we'refinding this like most people
(51:26):
nobody knows that there's amusical.
You know, unless you're, like aniche theater person in New
York, or you know, or you, oryou just know it from being a
theater person.
Nobody knows that there's amusical.
But I've been really what'sbeen really cool is like just in
our current marketing efforts,like the people that have
responded to it by going oh, Ilove the movie and whoa, wait,
it's a musical.
Speaker 6 (51:45):
I mean, come on, okay .
So the london production mattsmith and jonathan bailey were
in it, which is amazing.
The broadway productionbenjamin walker helped workshop
it and then carried it on there.
I mean it definitely has apedigree to a degree.
I mean it's definitely one ofthose, but it is kind of one of
those that did not have a longrun, is not going to be well
known, did not tour around thecountry.
(52:06):
I mean, tuts is not going to bedoing this part of season,
whatever they're on right now.
So, yeah, I mean it's a, it's abold move and it's definitely
the show that I'm looking themost forward to this year.
I'm very excited that you'redoing it.
I think bringing it withHouston Broadway Theater and
doing it half Houston and halfBroadway brilliant stroke,
bringing in all of these peopleI mean I'm totally stoked for it
(52:28):
.
I mean I don't want you to getthe impression that I'm not, but
I do think it's a little bit.
What is the word?
Speaker 5 (52:34):
Well, you think it's risky?
I'm sure.
Speaker 6 (52:36):
It is definitely a risk.
It is definitely one of thosethings that you look at theater
and theater is about creatingsolutions to problems, and at
theater and theater is aboutcreating solutions to problems,
and I think that American Psychohas some really interesting
problems to solve.
So my hats are off to you fortaking that on, because this is
definitely not the simplestmusical that I've heard being
produced this year.
Speaker 5 (52:54):
Well, I'll tell you this because, like, from an
audience perspective, look,because sometimes when I think
about programming, I try tosimplify a lot of the times,
like, I just try to go, like, ifI'm just a muggle, so to speak,
right, and I'm going out for anight at the theater, well,
there's a lot of differentreasons why I can go and see a
show.
There's a lot of differentplaces that I can go and see a
show, or go to a concert instead, or go, like I have a lot of
(53:15):
choices, right, the going outfor an evening.
You have a lot of choices, andso we're trying to be a unique
choice.
I have so much respect for theamount of theater that we have
in Houston.
Like, I think the fact thatwe're, the fact that we we even
have the capability to be a newtheater company that has the
(53:36):
prospect of inviting in newaudiences, is because there are
already audience bases thatexist, that have been exposed to
theater at least in somecapacity, whether it is, like I
said, all those other placesthat I mentioned before.
And you're right, like Tuts isnot going to do American Psycho,
but that's also not what Tutsdoes.
How amazing is it and how, likeculturally significant?
(53:58):
Is it to be like you've gotSpelling Bee going on in Tuts
and the next door you have, likeyou know, someone's swinging an
axe and and blood firing?
Tuts is where I grew up.
We keep talking about tuts, butthat's that's where I I grew up
doing theater and I love allthe shows there and I love the
entire team there andprofessional sorry go ahead.
Speaker 6 (54:15):
Yeah, they're an amazing.
They're a legendary companyhere.
I mean obviously been aroundforever and done some of the
most ambitious things here and,and you know, originated some
shows here and definitelyspecialized like the disney type
musicals.
I mean beauty and the beaststarted here with them.
They've done a lot of thingslike that and fyi heathers was
at zilka hall and that'sactually how I produced that.
(54:36):
So there you go, and not todenigrate them, but it
definitely is an ambitiouschoice.
I think this what I'm trying tosay is that it definitely is a
risky, it's an edgy one, it'sone that I really, really
respect.
It says a lot to your integrityas an artist and a lot to your
ambition as somebody, as aproducer, to actually take this
project on, and I'm very excitedabout it.
I mean, it's definitely one ofthe shows that I am absolutely
(54:57):
looking forward to the most in2025.
Speaker 5 (54:59):
So it's gonna be cool , it's really gonna be cool,
just to remind everybody,american psycho, the actual
musical.
Speaker 6 (55:06):
And yes, there is a musical and it will run at the
hobby center september 2ndthrough the 14th, presented by
houston broadway theater.
Your director, again real quickwho?
Joe calarco.
And of course you've got anentire amazing technical team
taking this on and everythingelse, a bunch of cast members
that we can't even mention yet,but I'm sure as we get closer to
the date I'm going to pull youaside to do that.
(55:28):
But in the meantime, break legs, sever limbs, couple of axes to
some actors, whatever.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
This has been Queer Voices, heard on KPFT Houston
and as a podcast available fromseveral podcasting sources.
Check our webpagequeervoicesorg for more
information.
Queer Voices executive produceris Brian Levinka.
Debra Moncrief-Bell isco-producer Brett Cullum, davis
(56:05):
Mendoza-Druzman Eva MichelleGanz.
Mel Peterson and Joel Tatum arecontributors.
The News Wrap segment is partof another podcast called this
Way Out, which is produced inLos Angeles.
Speaker 7 (56:19):
Some of the material in this program has been edited
to improve clarity and runtime.
This program does not endorseany no-transcript Views.
Opinions and endorsements arethose of the participants and
the organizations they represent.
In case of death, pleasediscontinue use and discard
remaining products.
Speaker 1 (56:32):
For Queer Voices.
I'm Glenn Holt, Thank you.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.