December 10, 2025 • 58 mins
This week, the QUEER VOICES team assembles for three segments. First up, Deborah Moncrief-Bell catches up with author and comedienne Jenny Block. Jenny has just finished a book called "Badass Manifesting," and she discusses how to make your dreams a reality. Then the entire Queer Voices team gathers together to discuss the nightmarish bathroom bill and Texas politics in general. Finally, Brett Cullum talks with Julie Irvin Hartman about shocking and sudden changes to HUB certification that will leave minorities and women out in the cold.
Queer Voices airs in Houston Texas on 90.1FM KPFT and is heard as a podcast here. Queer Voices hopes to entertain as well as illuminate LGBTQ issues in Houston and beyond. Check out our socials at:
https://www.facebook.com/QueerVoicesKPFT/ and
https://www.instagram.com/queervoices90.1kpft/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brett (00:00):
This is Queer Voices, a radio show on KPFT and a podcast
that has been around for overfive decades.
We are the voice of Houston'sLGBTQIA plus community.
I am Red Cullum, and coming up,we have Deborah Moncrief Bell
talking with author and comedianJenny Block about how to be a
unicorn and how to manifest.
And then several of our queervoices gather together for a
(00:23):
roundtable discussion of thebathroom bill and several other
political issues.
And finally, I get to speakwith Julie Irvin Hartman about
changes to the hub certificationfor small businesses.
Queer Voices starts now.
Deborah (00:38):
This is Deborah Moncrief Bell, and I have caught
up with Ginny Block.
I've been trying to catch upwith her for several weeks now
because Jenny has a new bookcalled Badass Manifesting: How
to Manifest Abundance, Success,and the Joyful Life of Your
(01:00):
Dreams.
Now, last time we had you on,Jenny, you had just uh come out
with Be That Unicorn.
What's the story behind that?
Jenny Block (01:09):
People always tell me that my superpower is making
other people feel good aboutthemselves.
And they would say, I just wishyou got I could just put you in
my pocket and just have younext to me all day long saying,
You got this, you're doinggreat, you're terrific.
And I thought, huh, you sort ofcould have me in your pocket if
there was a cute little bookwith a unicorn on the cover.
So be that unicorn is all aboutbeing your very best self.
(01:33):
That unicorn is someone whoknows how to stand up for him or
herself without hurting otherpeople.
I was worried that too manyfolks, especially LGBTQ folks
and women, minorities, werealways leaning in.
We're always saying, yeah,okay, that's fine.
And then the other thing, justsort of saying, whatever, I
didn't love that attitudeeither.
So my thought was how can wewalk through life and be
(01:57):
ourselves and be authentic andstand up for ourselves, but
still be kind to other peoplealong the way.
Deborah (02:04):
Now you've written several other books.
I urge everybody to check outJenny Block and the publications
she has produced.
Now you have this book, BadassManifesting.
How did this book come about?
Was it a segue from the otherone?
Jenny Block (02:22):
A little bit.
It was interesting because itwas kind of what you just said.
It was that people looked at mylife, watched my Instagram,
followed my books and my career,and thought, holy smokes, how
did this small town rabbis girlfrom Maryland end up writing for
the New York Times and afive-time book author and
traveling all the world?
I thought about that for aminute, and some of everything
(02:44):
is luck, I believe.
I hope some of what I've donehas to do with talent.
And I think the other part isreally believing that you can,
plus putting yourself in theroom where it happens.
I remember when that book, TheSecret, came out and people were
making vision boards andthinking positively, and there
were all these mantras.
(03:04):
And then there was this weirddownfall afterwards because
people said, Well, nothinghappened.
I didn't get the Mercedes.
I never became VP.
I didn't meet the person of mydreams.
And when I talked to thesepeople and asked about their
process, I learned there was noprocess.
There was nothing beyond thevision board.
And I am a firm believer inthinking positive.
(03:25):
I am a firm believer in puttingyour, you know, putting your
vision board together andthinking about what it is you
really want.
And then you have to putsomething into action to let the
universe know that you reallywant that.
I mean, the universe is outthere ready to support us.
The universe really wants us tosucceed.
But the universe is a blankslate and needs to know what it
(03:48):
is that you really, really,truly authentically want.
Not what you've said youwanted, but the things that
you're willing to do the workfor in order to have.
I have long said I wanted to bean actress.
And I did all this acting workwhen I was younger.
And then my I would whine to mydad, Oh, I wish I lived in New
York.
I wish I could be an actress.
(04:09):
And he said, Well, then go.
And I said, Oh, I can't.
I don't have any money.
He said, I will loan you moneyto move you to New York.
Oh, I don't know anybody there.
I have lots of congregants whohave family there.
Every excuse I made, my dadtrampled all over.
And my dad said, if you reallywanted this, you would have
said, Great, when do we start?
And so part of manifesting isreally figuring out what the
(04:33):
heck you actually want and whatyou're willing to do to make
that happen.
Does it mean it automaticallyhappens?
Of course not.
There's still the world andreality and science and all of
that.
But I guarantee thatmanifesting it will give you a
hundred percent more chance ofit making happen than not doing
it.
Deborah (04:49):
Yeah, you've got to at least try because it otherwise
it's not gonna happen for sure.
Absolutely.
What are some of the steps thatpeople need to use in order to
move beyond vision board toaccomplishment?
Jenny Block (05:03):
The very first one is to say it out loud, and it
can be as simple as saying it toyourself.
I am working on making my bodystronger.
So every morning when I wakeup, I say, I get stronger every
day, every day I'm gettingstronger.
That's how I start my morning.
So it reminds me that I need togo on my walk.
It reminds me that I need topull out my little weights and
(05:26):
my elastic bands.
It reminds me first thing inthe morning what we're gonna
focus on as we walk throughoutthe day, that I should take the
parking space that's furtheraway, that I should take the
stairs instead of the elevator.
Then I really believe inwriting it down.
You can believe me or not, butone day I wrote this, I don't
(05:46):
know, three paragraphs about myideal partner.
And six months later I met mynow wife.
Now, is it a magic trick?
I don't know, maybe a littlebit of universe magic, but a lot
of it has to do withconsciousness.
Once I wrote it down, once Isaid it out loud, then I was
actively paying attention towhat would lead me to meeting
(06:06):
that kind of person.
The other thing is to tellsomeone, make yourself
accountable by saying out loudto someone, I am writing a
novel.
And then when you see themagain, they say, How's that
novel coming?
And you can check in withyourself and say, gosh, I
haven't started it.
Maybe I really don't want that.
Or maybe today's the day tostart working on it.
So you have to put it out loudin the universe, you have to
(06:28):
share it with someone else, youhave to take the steps that are
going to get you there, you haveto write it down, you have to
really put yourself in themindset and in the physical
space of making those thingshappen for you.
Deborah (06:42):
So, what sorts of things are in the book?
Is it a step-by-step or uh howhow do you present badass
manifesting through the book?
Jenny Block (06:53):
So each chapter has a story of how I have
manifested something, a literalstory from my life, from you
know, silly to, you know, moreimportant things.
And then it has mantras for youto wake up every day and say.
And then it talks about how youcan use those to figure out
what it is you want, and thenhow you can make those things
(07:13):
happen.
The back of the book even hasspace for you to take notes and
work through your process.
And you can even email in toget a journal that you can print
out so you can keep track ofwhat you said you wanted and
check back later and be like,holy smokes, I actually made
that happen.
Or keep track of the thingsthat you've written down, and
six months later you think, huh,maybe that's not really what
(07:35):
I'm working towards anymore.
Or maybe today's the day Istart working on it.
I think so much of manifestinghas to do with accountability.
I think it gets really easy.
I hate the word lazy, maybelaxadaisical.
Half the time I can hardlyremember what it is I have to do
that day and remember to eatsomething and remember to go to
(07:56):
bed on time.
So we lose track of the biggerpicture of the higher things
that we want.
And then all of a sudden timepasses and nothing happened for
us.
So I really believe thatmanifesting has to do with being
accountable in whatever waysare useful to you, writing it
down, speaking it out loud everyday, having a buddy.
(08:16):
I have a uh my best friend andI walk together every morning.
She texts at 650 or 750,depending on the day.
And we're outside by seven oreight, depending on the day.
Without that, I mean, that'snot, I mean, is that
manifesting?
I don't know in a way.
I kept saying to myself, whycan't I get up every morning and
walk?
And then all of a sudden mybest friend called and was like,
(08:37):
Do you want to walk with me inthe morning?
Again, was it a magic trick?
Did the universe poke her andtell her to text me?
I have no idea.
I don't how I don't know how itworks in terms of that part.
I just know that if you dothose steps, it does work.
You lose nothing by trying.
Right.
Absolutely, absolutely.
I mean, the very fact that Iwrite for the New York Times was
(08:59):
a complete and totalmanifestation.
I was writing about food andentertainment and travel, and
then COVID hit.
And literally I had nothing towrite about.
There was no restaurants to goto, no trips to take, no shows
to see.
Clearly the world stopped.
And I thought to myself, whatam I gonna do with this time?
How long are we gonna be doingthis?
(09:20):
Where would I like my brain tobe?
And I thought, if I could justtell happy stories, love stories
or happy stuff all the time formy sake and to share that with
other people.
Well, I'll be darned if a weeklater someone posted on
Facebook, you know, you see, Idon't know, whatever, however
that algorithm works, like afriend of a friend that posted
(09:43):
there's a really cool weddingcoming up, a COVID-safe wedding.
Does anyone know anyone at theNew York Times?
And I thought, huh, I don't,but I could.
So I went into my writer'sgroup.
Does anybody know anyone at theNew York Times?
Someone offered to write thestory.
I said, oh no, no, I'm I wantto pitch it.
She very generously shared hercontact there.
(10:03):
I emailed the New York Times ona Friday morning, and that
afternoon I got an email thatsaid, Let me call you on Monday.
And it was the longest weekendof my life.
But on Monday morning, shebooked me to write that wedding,
and I've been with them almostsix years now.
I mean, how on earth does thathappen?
You you have to believe insomething.
(10:23):
How on earth otherwise wouldthat happen?
Deborah (10:26):
You've provided some wedding stories for Outsmart
magazine, and you also publisharticles in the Dallas Voice.
So you've been at this writinggig for a while.
Was that something that youstudied to be a writer, or did
it come about afterwards?
Jenny Block (10:43):
It's funny you should ask that because my mom
would say that I've been writingsince I could write, or even
before I could.
I would write stories andillustrate them, and she would
turn them into books for me.
I started out in college inmass communications, and a very
mean professor waggled her longred finger-nailed finger at me
(11:04):
with her diamond-encrusted Rolexrattling and shit, said,
Promise me you'll never writefor publication, and gave me my
first F.
And so I toddled myself intears over to the English
department and became an Englishmajor, ended up getting my
master's in composition andrhetoric, and started teaching
writing.
And one day a student said tome, What do you write?
(11:27):
And I said, Sometimes I writetest banks or workbooks.
And they're like, So you teachwriting, but you're not a
writer?
And I thought, holy guacamole.
Yeah, you're right.
I teach writing and I am not awriter.
I mean, I'm an academic writer,I guess.
I qualified, I have the degree,I know how to teach an
argumentative essay.
(11:47):
But wow, I I am not a writer,but I would like to be.
So I went to a writingconference, and I'm ashamed to
say that I cornered an editor inthe parking garage so he
couldn't get to his car until heagreed to let me write for the
um Virginia Horse Quarterly.
He assigned me a 250 words on atrail ride that I went on for
(12:11):
$50.
And that was my first articleever from that article.
I just kept parlaying that.
We moved to Dallas, Bub theeditor at D magazine, took that
and ended up at The Observer.
Then it ended up at the DallasMorning News.
Along the way, I got a columnat the Dallas Voice.
I ended up writing a book thattook me to write for magazines,
(12:31):
led me to my next book.
I mean, it's it was, I mean,was it manifested?
Was it yeah, yes, I'm going toanswer my own question.
I manifested that life bystarting with a simple question
and answering it for myself.
Deborah (12:46):
Yep.
It always that's a very goodway to come up with something is
someone I know said, I'm I'mgonna go have a sit-down with
myself.
Jenny Block (12:56):
I love that.
I love that.
That's I don't think we haveenough sit-down with ourselves.
And a lot of it is that we'rebusy and overwhelmed.
And there's that wonderfuladage uh about the man who went
out every day to saw down trees.
And every day it seemed like hewas sawing down fewer and fewer
to the point where he wentfrom, you know, a hundred to
(13:17):
two.
And his friend said, Well, haveyou thought about why that
might be?
And he's like, No, I don'tknow.
I'm getting old or tired ofthis job.
He said, Have you thought aboutyour tools?
And he said, What do you mean?
He said, When was the last timeyou sharpened your saw?
He said, I don't have time tosharpen my saw.
I think about that all thetime.
If we spend a little timesharpening our saws, a little
(13:41):
time manifesting, a little timefocusing on what it is that we
really want and how we could getthere, we would be back to
chopping down a hundred trees.
Deborah (13:49):
Although we really don't want to chop down all the
tricks.
Jenny Block (13:52):
Good point.
So maybe I need to come up witha new one for that.
But how about uh fishing in awell-stocked pond?
Deborah (13:58):
Yeah, yeah.
That sounds good.
So you said that you had thisdream of being an actress and
you have done some performance.
And in recent years, what youstarted doing stand-up?
Jenny Block (14:11):
Yes, it was kind of funny how that happened
because the stage bug has longstayed with me.
And I started speaking onOlivia Travel cruises and Olivia
Travel Resorts.
After people would see me, theywere like, that was really
great, but I wouldn't billyourself as a speaker.
I would bill you as a stand-upcomedian.
And I thought, wow, I reallynever thought about myself that
(14:34):
way.
But, you know, a lot of comedyis storytelling.
And when I tell the storiesthat, you know, led to my books
or part of my early books,they're funny.
So I had spoken to a musicfestival in Michigan that used
to take place on what we callthe land, which is where
Michigan Women's Festival orMichigan, uh, where Mitch Fest
(14:55):
used to take place for 40 years.
They've sort of reinvigoratedthat land and are having
festivals there now.
And they asked me to, theyasked me to MC.
And I was like, oh my gosh, Iwould love to.
That would be great.
And she said, you know, you cantalk in between the acts and
introduce people.
And I was like, okay, thatwould be terrific.
So I get there and they hand methe program and it says Jenny
(15:17):
Block Comedian.
And I was like, uh-oh.
And I thought, well, there youhave it.
You manifested that a littletoo strongly.
And so I went on stage, and Iwill admit, I think it's harder
to be funny when you're expectedto be funny, but it went great.
And from that festival, someoneasked me to do stand-up at
their club in Colorado.
(15:38):
I don't know if that will endup being a big chunk of my
career, but definitely speaking.
I I love, I love that.
I do love an audience, I won'tlie.
And I do love people makingpeople laugh.
I like making them cry too.
I like making people think,like stop for a minute and
think.
Because again, the world is sofast, and in some ways we're, I
(15:59):
don't know, spending a lot oftime surviving, especially these
days.
But I think there's a lot to besaid for taking a moment to
think about how we can do morethan just survive.
Deborah (16:09):
What's the best advice anyone ever gave you?
Jenny Block (16:12):
Well, you kind of said it yourself.
My dad always says if you don'tgo up to bat, you're never
gonna get a hit.
I mean, he has told me just tosay yes.
I mean, that that is probablythe best piece of advice I've
ever gotten.
My father just says to say yes.
He says, I've never gotten ajob that I'm qualified for.
I always just figure it out.
(16:32):
Can you do this?
Yeah, sure, absolutely.
And then I call somebody ornowadays Google it, or if they
think I can do it, well, thensure I can do it.
I just need to figure it out.
Um, I didn't realize how oftenI would see people who had
things or were doing things orwere being things that either
they simply gave themselvespermission or they asked
(16:55):
somebody.
And then I would remember,well, that's what your dad
always says.
Just ask.
I mean, as simple as we wentout to dinner with a bunch of
people at a very crowdedrestaurant.
We had a reservation, and thetable was one of those really
tall bar tables.
You know, you sit on stools.
Right.
Deborah (17:11):
I had to do that.
Jenny Block (17:11):
And my exactly.
And my friend had just had ahip replacement.
I'm only five feet tall, sothat's not a great place for my
all five feet of me.
And it was swamped.
And my friend had already askedwhen we checked in if we could
have another table, and she saidwe were too they were too busy.
And I thought, okay, but re-are you sure?
And I looked around and sawsome tables we could push
(17:33):
together.
And I went back up and said,Listen, I know you're busy.
I know this is basicallyimpossible, but we will help.
You know, this will be a veryuncomfortable meal for my friend
if if we can't do this.
I I would, it just would mean alot to me.
And she was like, Yeah, okay,sure, let's let's make that
happen.
Like, and I thought, I couldhave not asked.
(17:55):
I could have not wanted toquote unquote bother her, but I
wasn't rude, I wasn't demanding,I didn't have any expectations.
She could still say no to me.
But sometimes we just have toask for the things that we want
or need, again, withoutexpectation, without demand,
knowing that no is a completesentence.
Um, but we have to at leastask.
Deborah (18:17):
Well, we've been talking with Ginny Block, a
writer, a performer, badass,about her book, Badass
Manifesting.
Ginny, you've been so busygoing around uh launching the
book.
Uh, where are we with it rightnow?
And what comes next for GinnyBlock?
Jenny Block (18:34):
So with the holidays, and my wife and I are
going on a week-long cruise withMSc because they are happily
here in Galvasoon.
Um, and then right afterChristmas, we're spending three
weeks on a princess cruise,going to all the Caribbean
islands, going to try to relax alittle, and then it's right
back to the races.
I have a signing in Dallas inJanuary, and we're gonna start
(18:56):
booking into the new year.
So, and I'm gonna say out loud,Deborah, I'm going to write a
novel.
All right.
So that's those are my plans.
Deborah (19:06):
Well, you can titillate us with what developed
with the novel, and be sure tocome back and join us so we can
talk about it on queer voices.
When someone gets the bookBadass Manifesting, they don't
just get a book because you havemade available through email
for people to contact you, andyou're you're also serving as a
(19:27):
guide towards this uh philosophyof badass manifesting.
So that's good.
Jenny Block (19:33):
Yeah, it's terrific.
And I love to be to hear howhow it's working for people.
I love for people to DM me onInstagram who say, you know,
they love it or this is whatthey've tried.
The book contains a lot ofquotes from a lot of people who
have manifested things in theirlives, and I love to see how
that works for people.
Deborah (19:50):
Well, I appreciate you being with us on Queer Voices.
Jenny Block (19:54):
Well, I thank you so much for having me and giving
me the opportunity to talkabout badass manifesting and to
Just spend some time with you.
Brett (20:11):
Hi there, this is Brett Cullum, and today I am joined by
several of our queer voices.
We have Deborah Moncrief Bell,we have Brian Hlavinka, Joel
Tatum, and Arlie Ingalls alltogether for a roundtable
discussion of recent events.
And I wanted to kick us offwith the Texas Bathroom Bill.
This is Senate Bill 8.
(20:31):
They recently enacted it.
December 4th is when it tookinto effect.
It restricts transgenderindividuals from using restrooms
and changing facilitiesmatching their gender identity
in public buildings, schools,and universities.
So it requires you to use thebathroom that is your sex
assigned at birth.
It also impacts prisons anddomestic violence shelters.
(20:52):
It's really hateful because itis asking you to identify as
strictly what you are assignedat birth.
Brian (20:58):
Stringly your papers.
It is very much that.
We live in 1930s Germany.
I say it all the time.
Deborah (21:06):
What's particularly disturbing is because this
targets trans women.
They're men, and men shouldn'tbe in women's spaces such as
bathrooms.
But the reality is what wedon't want is men in those
(21:28):
spaces.
And there's already laws tothat effect.
So this was totally directed,mean spirited towards trans
women.
I've been in the bathroom withtrans women, and my only
complaint is that they hog themirror.
Brian (21:50):
It's good old-fashioned red-blooded hate.
They're dividing our communityinto segments and going after
them.
Lee (21:57):
Yeah, I think that there's certain politicians that have
found a wedge issue that theycan use to separate our society
in a way that uh that polarizespeople, which which is unfair to
our trans community.
But if they really were trulyconcerned about fixing that
problem, there are other optionsthat they haven't even
entertained, such as instead ofmaking them public spaces, those
(22:20):
rooms are typically largeenough that you could carve them
up into smaller, intimatespaces where there aren't
multiple people in there.
And then who would know?
So I don't think that they'relooking to solve the problem.
They're only looking to use itas a wedge issue.
Brett (22:34):
Well, and it's been so long that they've been working
on this.
And I don't understand theirfascination with bathrooms.
Deborah (22:40):
I mean, what's so low on my list of things?
Because it's not aboutbathrooms, it's about them uh as
has been expressed, dividing acommunity, dividing people,
targeting a vulnerablepopulation that already has
threats against it all the time.
(23:00):
I've been in restrooms withother women who maybe they had a
bit of a masculine presentationand they sometimes were
challenged about where theywere, which in a way was kind of
funny.
But it's that that happens too.
I know there's already been afew cases where a cisgender
(23:22):
person was in a restroom and gotchallenged for being in the
wrong bathrooms.
If I were a trans person, Imust be feeling about to be
targeted this way and concernedabout what if I'm someplace and
I need to use the bathroom andit's one of those places where
(23:42):
I'm not allowed to go to therestroom that that I identify
with as far as gender.
What do you do on a plane?
Brian (23:50):
If you're on a plane, what do you do?
Brett (23:52):
Right, exactly.
And that's kind of my point.
Well I mean unisex bathroomsare everywhere.
Yes.
Yeah.
We have them all in our houses.
I mean, come on.
Deborah (23:59):
On a plane, it's just one person at a time.
There's not likely to be asituation.
Everybody can use the restroomon a plane.
Brett (24:07):
Right.
Yeah, it's not designated.
And I don't know what it woulddo with unisex bathrooms in
public spaces, but the law isaimed at public spaces.
So we're looking atcourthouses, we're looking at
schools, we're looking at thingsthat are somehow tied to a
government.
A private, a restaurant, aclub, they can do whatever they
want.
They can still assign bathroomsand not enforce this.
(24:27):
Now, the wild thing is that theenforcement is on the
establishment.
The person that gets fined isthe establishment.
If there's a violation, thebuilding or the person that runs
it is $25,000 for the firstinstance and then $125,000 per
day for every subsequentviolation.
Wow.
Lee (24:46):
Right.
And the bill goes on toidentify those areas within
those buildings that are beinglooked at restrooms, showers,
changing rooms where you'regoing to have multiple people in
a shared space.
So index operates it from theairplane restroom there.
Right.
It's not a shared space.
Brett (25:03):
Yeah, it's not a privately owned, corporate, you
know, or personally owned thing.
But one of the wild thingsabout this is you think about
universities and showers andchanging rooms.
Well, here we are again talkingabout the sports ramification
of that.
Lee (25:16):
Right.
Because a few years ago, Idon't remember if it was a sport
event or the rodeo, but duringone of the breaks in the
performance, the women's room,the line was so long, many of
the women went to the men's roomto use the restroom, and we
never heard anything about that.
Uh yeah.
How would that have beentreated?
Deborah (25:35):
Yeah, we take over.
There's been lots of caseswhere that was the case.
The men's room was a lot moreuh available than the women's
room because uh the it takes usa little longer.
Uh we're not using the urinals,we've done that.
Somebody keeps lookout and forthe most part it's fine.
(25:55):
I've never had a situationwhere there were any problems.
Lee (26:00):
Right.
So I go back to I don't believethe objective of this bill was
to solve the problem.
I think it was to continue thewedge.
Deborah (26:08):
Yeah.
We're talking, I mean, transpeople that as they navigate the
world, there's so much theyhave to take into consideration,
just as as women do aboutsafety.
It's just like one of thestupidest things that we could
be doing because they'remanufacturing a problem and then
(26:29):
coming up with a so-calledsolution.
There was already a law in thebooks about using the
appropriate bathroom, but that'sbased on the gender you
identify with.
Brian (26:41):
I I think that they need a boogeyman, and this is a tr
this is a very convenienttarget.
Well, it's decades old.
I mean, it's been going onforever.
Brett (26:48):
They've been pushing it for a long time.
They just have the power now toactually get through it.
They've been in bold.
Yes.
And it it's it's wild to thinkabout what it impacts on
shelters and prisons becausethat prison housing, a shelter
some family violent shelters,that's gonna cause a really huge
problem for the transcommunity.
Nobody's protecting anybodyfrom any pain.
Brian (27:07):
Such a small percentage of the community.
Brett (27:09):
Yes, and how do you enforce this?
I mean, they're they're askinglike are you gonna it's gonna be
vigilante, it's gonna be peoplein the restroom that just
suspect.
And like what Deborah saidearlier, where's the line?
Joel (27:22):
How are you gonna go about knowing who is supposedly male
or female when they're steppinginto a woman's bathroom, unless
you do certain things that areintrusive to to women.
So isn't this just gonna affectwomen harder just as much as it
affects trans women?
Deborah (27:38):
Well, it will affect women who who are accused of
being male, uh when they're whenthey're actually cisgendered
women, just maybe masculinepresenting.
The ACLU did a workshopaddressing this bill, and
hopefully we can get them on totalk more in depth and ideas for
(27:58):
navigating the situation.
Brian (28:01):
You know, we've seen this movie before.
There's going to be patchesthat go on your your shirt that
tell identify who you are.
I mean, this is not new.
Brett (28:07):
And then they also uh tweaked Senate bill 12.
So that was the bill thataddressed uh drag shows in
public and also addresses DEI inschools.
You cannot teach anything thatis not approved by the state.
So no inclusive programming oranything like that.
Heinous.
They're calling it the TexasDon't they gay bill.
(28:28):
Where are the kids going to gettheir information?
Deborah (28:30):
They've done the 1984 thing where they've rewritten
history or taking people out ofhistory on the websites and in
school curriculum.
It's like these people didn'texist or their contributions
didn't matter.
But they've done it certainlywith black and indigenous people
as well as women.
I just wonder what their fearis.
(28:52):
Why are they so afraid of aninclusive and diverse society?
Lee (28:58):
They should want those discussed in a supportive
environment where you can givethem the first message that
comes into their head aboutcommunities that that you might
be concerned about or want tostay away from.
If your message is not the onethat comes into their mind, when
they meet these communities,uh, you're gonna send them out
in the world without themknowing anything about it.
(29:19):
And somebody who has noallegiance to the well-being of
your child is going to explainto them what those communities
are, and they're probably goingto do it in a way that preys
upon them.
For me, it's counterintuitiveto not have those discussions
about those all communities thatexist in our society, and then
give your child the words theythey should that should come
into their mind first.
Brett (29:39):
And that just stays on the books, the SV12.
So uh definitely impacts ourpart of our community that does
drag and the part of ourcommunity that does any kind of
outreach in schools.
Deborah (29:49):
So that's what's the restriction on drag?
Brett (29:53):
It is not allowed to be in any kind of public setting
where children might be exposedto it.
Right.
Brian (29:59):
Um save the children.
Yes, save them from the evildrag queen.
The makeup.
Deborah (30:05):
From what I understand, children love drag
queens.
Of course they do.
If you've seen any of theinteractions, they're just like
in awe of uh and and it's socute.
You're brainwashing those kids.
So so that they'll be good andloving, fine human beings?
Brett (30:22):
Yes, and they'll take it all the time up with the mirror.
Well, another thing thathappened this past week, I there
were revisions to thehistorically underutilized
business certification program.
We we refer to it as hubcertification.
So this program used to helpwomen-owned business, it used to
help minority-owned businesses,and it helped veteran-owned
(30:43):
businesses.
Well, now they have strippedwomen and minorities completely
out of it.
The program now is only gonnabe eligible for service-disabled
veterans.
So no women, no minority.
They're actually they're gonnacall it now uh veteran heroes
united in business.
So it's still hub, but we hadthe V.
Wow.
Yeah, but it's gonna reallyimpact the LGBTQ Chamber of
(31:06):
Commerce.
I have a segment coming up nextthat we really go into it a
little bit more.
So we don't have to talk aboutthis too hard in the actual
bill.
They removed any reference togender and replaced it with the
word sex.
So what do you think thatmeans?
Deborah (31:20):
Because the concept is that sex is what you're born
with, what you're identified asbirth, male or female, based on
what your genitalia is, whereasgender is a social construct and
people can identify with theirgender, which for most of us, if
we're cisgender, is in fact thegender we were born with, or
(31:42):
identified at birth, I shouldsay.
We we don't we don't alwaysknow right at first.
Again, doesn't make any sense,and our mind keeps trying to
find the logic, and you knowit's painful.
Brett (31:54):
Well, it amazes me because again, it's another way
to gatekeep.
But this one actually goes forcis women and minority-owned
businesses as well.
So I mean it's gonna impactmore than just our community.
Deborah (32:04):
Brett, did you see anything as to why they made
this change?
Brett (32:09):
No.
And we'll definitely talk aboutit with our next guest, but it
was just something that theyinstituted last Wednesday.
It's been talked about for awhile.
It's been a program that's beenunder scrutiny and they have
paused a lot of thesecertifications within the state
ever since October, but nowthey've absolutely redefined it.
And they did it when they gotsomebody that would have no
political ramifications becausethey weren't elected, they were
(32:30):
just a temporary comproller.
So they're again takingadvantage of the fact that it's
the time when they have thepower to do these things.
So, and speaking of that, ofcourse, we have been
redistricted, and the SupremeCourt has upheld the decision
despite uh several lower federalcourts saying it was not right.
Deborah (32:49):
The whole redistricting thing, they they
did this one time before wherethey scheduled redistricting in
an off time.
It it's done every 10 yearsafter the the census comes in.
They look at maps and say,well, the populations have
changed and there's been growthhere and people leaving this
(33:12):
area, so we we have to come upwith districts that cover new
new concerns.
You and uh the it's so obviousas to why I mean they told us
why it was done.
They they wanted to make moredistricts that would be
Republican to the point to whereno Democrat could get elected
(33:35):
in those districts.
And what they came up withtears the fabric of what the
districts that existed were.
It's again that power grab,which they keep doing on the
state and national level.
The more damage that they cando, the happier they are.
Look at what happened to theeast wing of the White House.
(33:57):
That says it all.
You just tear it down.
You're tearing down thiscountry.
It behooves us to to know whatis going on, uh uh and to try to
understand it, but also to putin place ideas about what we can
do to make it better.
What what powers do we have,what rights do we have that we
(34:20):
can utilize to uh minimize anydamage, I guess uh eventually
electing people who are going tomake good policy.
Brett (34:28):
Well, it just always fascinates me.
Where are the checks andbalances?
Why why is this just sounfettered right now?
Brian (34:35):
Because they had the courts and they manipulated the
courts to get the decisions thatthey want.
There's no safeguard now.
Deborah (34:42):
Well, nationally, Congress has certain roles and
they have let the person in theWhite House um or on the golf
course do whatever and not holdthem to account and not to exert
the fact that they're the onesthat have the say so over
certain things.
(35:03):
I mean, there's been all kindsof things violated, but they're
not holding the administrationto account.
And I would I would really likefor us to see that.
We we do see that uh Democratsare winning races across the
country in s uh uh seats wherethe the it was thought that a
Democrat could never win.
(35:24):
It's it goes back to the NewDeal and FDR and having a social
safety net in our society, umin in what what's called the
liberal consensus, where weagree that this is a government
and how we want to function, andthat that includes things like
(35:44):
infrastructure and safety netregulations that you know,
health and safety regulations,and nationally they provide for
the common good.
Um, and when we do that, we'retaking care of one another,
we're taking care of ourneighbors.
It it just makes me profoundlyuh sad, and I realize I'm in
(36:06):
grief about what is happening inour country.
Brett (36:08):
It's a definitely hard time to look at all of these and
feel uh that there's some kindof hope.
And that's always what I alwaysask myself is where is the
hope?
And I suppose the hope is withS SB 8 or the bathroom bill, is
that um it can't impact theprivate restaurants, clubs.
They're gonna do the rightthing.
Lee (36:28):
They set their own policy.
Brett (36:30):
And then this uh idea of not being able to teach anything
in school that's not uh statemandated.
I don't know what the answer tothat one is, except for you
know, we have to find ways toeducate people.
And maybe we're part of that.
I don't know.
Deborah (36:42):
Well, we can be involved in different ways, as
what has happened with theelection earlier in November in
school districts all across thecountry, they got flipped from
conservative to moreprogressive.
People getting involved runrunning for office, pick your
candidate and and work for forthem, being informed, elected uh
(37:07):
people they they want to hearfrom us.
They may not agree with us, buteven if if you're contacting
the people that represent you orat least are supposed to be
representing you, whether it beyay or nay, they need to hear
from us because they do payattention.
It's uh it uh my community isnot just the queer community,
(37:31):
it's the third word community,it's the city of Houston, it's
the county.
Brian (37:36):
Did we talk about voting at all yet?
I think this is the runoffelection for city council, so
you only have one name to votefor.
It's Alejandra Salinas, is thatyes, Alejandra Salinas.
Deborah (37:48):
I heard her on a program and I was very
impressed.
Brian (37:52):
We know that Jack Velinski's there right now
painting out cards.
Oh, he's always there.
Brett (37:56):
I drive by.
He's there 24-7.
I don't think he goes home.
I think he lives in thatparking lot.
We could start a rumor, right?
Deborah (38:04):
Well, no, it's not a rumor.
Brian (38:05):
Jack lives in West Grave parking lot.
Deborah (38:07):
Yeah, and there you go.
There's somebody that they'renot just sitting at home uh
wringing their hands, they'reout doing something to make a
difference.
Brian (38:17):
Does that give you hope?
I I'm hopeful, but I don't knowif I have full hope because
Jack's been doing this for yearsand it seems to be getting
worse.
What are you doing, Brian?
What do you do to make you feellike you're making an impact
right now?
I do a lot of prof nonprofitwork.
I I'm part of a group calledthe Texas Pride Community
(38:37):
Foundation, which is a statewideLGBT advocacy fundraising
organization.
I feel like our whole state isbeing attacked.
It is.
And and we've spent the lastentire segment talking about the
ways that we're being attacked.
I hate to say that we'reprivileged to live in a big city
with all the resources, but weare.
And the people that live 50miles outside of Houston are
(38:58):
just in a different world.
This is very true.
Brett (39:01):
The city of Houston.
One of the things that I gotout of the interview that I'm
about to do with the hubcertification process, the city
of Houston still has that.
The city of Houston still willcertify you.
And they will even certify youas an LGBTQIA plus business.
Brian (39:14):
And you know, I think we need to credit Tammy for that in
the LGBT Houston CreativeHouston Chamber of Commerce.
Yes.
Brett (39:19):
They're definitely not there advocating, and another
person that gives me a lot ofhope.
Brian (39:23):
Making a lot of difference in the community.
Thank you, Tammy.
Deborah (39:26):
Tammy Waltz.
Was there anything giving youhope?
There's a history professornamed Heather Cox Richardson.
This woman has given mewhatever kind of hope uh to
understand what is going on.
She's a history professor, butshe does these nightly letters.
They're called Letters from anAmerican, and they're available
(39:48):
on Facebook or on Substack.
This is just this isn't justopinion.
This is someone who knows whatYeah, they know what they're
talking about and can connectwhat is going on.
On two historical references.
We see a pattern.
There's the same kind of thingwas happening.
Lee (40:09):
Anything giving you hope?
I know that we've lived in darkdays before.
I'm and we are there today forsure.
But it n the dark days neverlast because people don't like
to live there.
They like to live where uhthere is light and hope, and
they will gravitate toward thatwhen they're presented with
that.
I don't want to cheer that weyou know we're seeing the tides
turning too early because we'veseen that in our more recent
(40:29):
political environment.
I would like to have somesuccess behind us before we
start cheering that yeah, maybethe tides have turned.
So that that's what gives mehope.
And Joel, what gives you hope?
Joel (40:40):
I'm gonna be honest.
Right now, the only thingthat's really giving me hope
right now is the blackcommunity.
Yeah.
I'm watching everything onsocial media about how the black
community is tackling problemswithin its own community, how
it's tackling white supremacyoutside of the community.
I'm watching how we are fromour black trans queens who have
(41:01):
been the soothsayers of what itwhat these bathroom bills and
everything else is gonna be, andhow it's not only just gonna
affect, which is what the pointI was making earlier, not only
gonna affect the transcommunity, but affect women,
especially African Americanwomen.
Because African American womenare usually have always been
considered masculine on somelevel.
So right now that's where myhope is because I am seeing my
(41:25):
Jasmine Crockett, who is tearingWashington, D.C.
up.
She is tearing Washington,she's tearing everybody apart,
including the orange man inoffice.
It's amazing to watch.
So that's that's where my hopeis.
Brett (41:38):
Well, Jasmine Crockett definitely gives me a lot of it.
She's she's amazing.
Yeah.
So, Brett, answer your ownquestion.
What gives you hope?
Oh my gosh.
I thought I could avoid thisbecause I could just ask all
y'all.
No, no, no.
I have hope that things arecyclical and that we will see it
swing back.
I've seen it swing to theright, I've seen it swing to the
left.
It feels like this last week.
(41:59):
When I look at all of thesethings that have happened, it
seems like we are still in thatright swing where things are
looking bleak.
But I have hope when I look atpeople like Jasmine Crockett,
when I look at people likeDeborah mentioning the professor
on Facebook, uh, and it doesgive me hope that still anything
that's not governmentcontrolled, we can still make
that difference.
Brian (42:17):
And still do that.
I'm hopeful that Queer Voicesis making a difference.
Brett (42:21):
I hope that too.
Brian (42:23):
That we're allowing people to talk and tell the
stories of things that may notbe heard on other places.
Brett (42:29):
Yep, I agree.
Yeah.
And that is uh why we're here.
Hi, this is Brett Cullum.
And this week we gotunfortunate news that the Texas
Comptroller is restructuring thehistorically underutilized
business, or what we call theHub Certification Program.
They have decided to strip awaythe designation for women and
minority-owned businesses.
And according to the TexasTribune, the program will now
(42:50):
only be eligible forservice-disabled veterans, which
in effect makes it the VeteranHeroes United in business.
Now, the hub program wasoriginally created with the
intention of giving minority andwomen-owned businesses a leg up
when seeking state contracts,but it looks like this has been
impacted.
So, my guest right now is JulieIrvin Hartman of B2G Victory.
(43:12):
She works with a company thathelps businesses obtain their
certifications to win governmentand prime contracts.
She helps us get thisdesignation.
So, Julie, what does this meanto minority and women-owned
businesses?
It's a state level, right?
Julie (43:26):
Correct.
And Brent, thanks so much fortaking the time to chat about
this because this is this is areally big deal.
And um want to make sure thatthat we talk about this in terms
of an economic issue and aTexas issue and an issue for
Texas small businesses of of allshapes, sizes.
(43:48):
So the hub program, the stateof Texas Hub program, has been
around for quite a while.
And what that program does isit certifies that a business is
a couple of things.
And first and foremost, thecriteria is that it needs to be
a small business.
99% of all of the businesses inTexas fall in that category.
(44:10):
So this is a huge economicimpact across the state with
government agencies.
There's over 300 state of Texasgovernment agencies, but this
trickles all the way down tocounties, right?
There are 254 counties in thestate of Texas that accept the
hub certification as a part oftheir small business programs.
(44:33):
Then you've got all of thecities as well as school
districts.
What do they all have incommon?
One, they're all businesses.
They buy anything andeverything that these small
businesses provide, whetherthat's paper, pens, carpet,
computers, lights, landscaping,anything and everything.
So there's opportunities forall shapes and sizes of
(44:56):
businesses to diversify ingovernment contracts, regardless
of what the government agencyis.
So what does the HUD programdo?
That certifies that a businessis a small business.
It certifies that it's a localbusiness.
That means local in terms ofthe state of Texas.
Then the other criteria thathas been flipped upside its head
(45:17):
when Mr.
Hancock became the actingcontroller is that that criteria
of are you a women-ownedbusiness or are you a
minority-owned business or areyou a service-disabled veteran?
And absolutely, my father is aveteran, and I want to make sure
that we support everyone whohas supported this amazing
(45:38):
country and this amazing statethat we live in, but that
shouldn't preclude it from otherbusinesses as well.
That certification does notguarantee a contract.
It what it does is it increasesthe amount of opportunities for
these businesses.
You still have to prove thatyour pricing is competitive,
that you have the capability andcapacity to do the work.
(46:01):
What it does is it helps openup some doors and open up some
opportunities that may have notbeen aware of for these
businesses.
So what's happening right now?
Well, with this emergency rulesand these new things that are
out, it's added just even moreconfusion in the government um
(46:23):
contracting space and hasallowed different government
agencies at their discretion towhether or not how they're going
to handle the HUB program.
Well, that's why we havelegislation, that's why we have
tax codes, that's why we haveprocurement rules and
regulations to follow to ensurethe transparency of our tax
(46:46):
dollars and how they're spentand ensuring that they go to
qualified businesses to do thework.
Brett (46:54):
What I'm hearing is that you are looking at flipping this
whole idea of the historicallyunderutilized business, the
women-owned, minority-ownedbusinesses, and just saying,
hey, you know, not any morecertifications for you.
Right.
And you're not gonna have thatlittle extra advantage of having
that certification.
Even though that thatcertification only allowed you
to bid on the business, but itmade people aware of you, made
(47:15):
them more attractive, gave themsome incentive to look at you.
So did you think that this is apart of this whole state's
mission against DEI?
Julie (47:24):
It's it's coming now for a couple of things.
And and some of this writingwas already on the wall.
Hancock, you know, when hebecame acting controller, he was
very clear that that this isone of his top priorities.
But even going back to toJanuary when the the Greater
Houston LBGTQ chamber had theirevent, you know, I was one of
(47:45):
the speakers, and it wassupposed to be at the Federal
Reserve.
And two days before the event,the Federal Reserve canceled and
said, you can't have your eventhere anymore.
And so Tammy and the entireteam at the chamber scrambled
two days before the largestevent of the year, and it was
nominally.
And that shows the support andin the community around it to
(48:07):
make sure that things happen.
That was kind of part of it.
And then with some of the otherchanges that that other states
are doing, as well as othergovernment agencies that are
either changing their programsand making them more race and
gender neutral, or pausing theirprograms entirely to
restructure them.
(48:27):
So this is a trend we've beenseeing happen starting in the
beginning of the year,specifically with our business,
when the comptroller at the endof October issued a freeze of
the program and said thatthey're not going to be doing
any more renewals or any morecertifications.
That happened on October 28th.
As a certified hub business,guess how I found out about it?
Brett (48:51):
Email, probably.
Julie (48:52):
Unfortunately, no, the comp troller didn't notify
businesses.
I found out when a reporterreached out to me.
Brett (49:00):
So they broke up with you via the media.
Exactly.
Horrible.
Julie (49:04):
So the comp troller has has not done a very good job of
communicating it to thebusinesses, a hub certified
business.
Our certification, which is amulti-year certification, was up
for renewal in December of thisyear, ironically.
We started the renewal processin October.
On Wednesday at 11 o'clock, Igot an email from the state
(49:25):
comproller that said ourcertification was renewed.
Then at three o'clock, I gotthe email that the entire
program, if you're not a servicedisabled veteran, then you're
no longer certified.
Brett (49:35):
That's just crazy.
Julie (49:36):
Like so going back to the noise, the confusion, the lack
of communication from thecomproller to the hub certified
businesses, these 15,000businesses that are impacted.
The majority of hub-certifiedbusinesses found out was on
Wednesday when they got theiremail.
Brett (49:56):
It sounds crazy as far as that goes, but and this is a
state level thing.
And then we're looking at thereaction from the city of
Houston, which, you know,trickles down, obviously.
I mean, a lot of times theseorganizations and these
governments, as they go down,it's the state, it just kind of
trickles down.
So what are you even seeingfrom City of Houston?
Julie (50:14):
So City of Houston is a certifying agency.
So you've got the state ofTexas, which is a certifying
agency, and then you've got yourcity of Houston.
So for City of Houstonprojects, the airport, right?
All three of the airports areunder um city of Houston.
They have goals as well.
And if you want to get yourstate of Texas hub
(50:35):
certification, in the past, thecity of Houston had um a
memorandum of of agreement andMOA with the state of Texas hub.
So if you got your city ofHouston, you could also get your
state of Texas hub.
So obviously that's not thereanymore.
And the city of Houston isactually one of the few
government agencies thatactually accepts the LGBTQ
(50:59):
certification.
Brett (51:00):
Wow, I did not know that.
Julie (51:01):
Yes, yes.
So the city of Houston actuallyhas a certified directory that
includes LGBTQ businesses, andthey're one of the few cities in
the country that has it.
So with the city of Houston,you can get a minority-owned
business certification, awoman-owned, a small business,
(51:23):
or a person with disabilities.
So if you have your LGBTQcertification through the NGLCC,
which is the National LGBTQChamber of Commerce, then the
city of Houston will accept thatcertification and put you in
their directory.
So that is still intact.
Brett (51:46):
I'm talking with Julie Irvin Hartman of B2G Victory,
and we're talking about the hubprogram at a state level that is
uh obviously been redefinedcompletely uh just by this uh
comp troller.
Now, this is an emergency act.
Is that what you were saying?
Julie (52:01):
This is, and so they issued actually house um rules
and meetings um under the Texasregister.
And and I went ahead and sentand sent those those two, and we
can kind of talk about a few ofthose.
Interesting, a couple of thingshere is Kelly Hancock is the
acting controller.
Speaker 4 (52:21):
Correct.
Julie (52:21):
He was not voting.
Brett (52:23):
Exactly.
Speaker 4 (52:23):
He's just acting.
Julie (52:25):
The state of Texas hub program was on the floor in this
last legislative session toeither make changes to it or to
to to disband it.
There was a couple differentlegislation, legislative bills,
like none of those passed.
Brett (52:39):
Oh, so they couldn't disband it through the legal
process.
Julie (52:41):
They couldn't disband it through the normal legislative
process.
What they did do, which is tohelp businesses, small
businesses, is they increase thethreshold.
So it used to be $50,000 thathad to go out for formal
procurement, RFP, and all ofthat.
Um and they actually increasedit from $50,000 to $100,000.
(53:02):
So that definitely helped Texassmall businesses enter this
space and increase the amount ofopportunities based on, once
again, your business size, yourcapacity, and your pricing,
right?
You still have to compete inall of this and whether you have
a hub certification or not.
And now with the TexasRegister, did these
(53:25):
modifications to the rules thatbecame effective December 2nd,
changed a couple of things backto the hub program.
So they changed a couple wordsfrom to assist agencies.
This is Rule 20.281, and itsays it is the policy of the
controller to encourage the useof historically underutilized
(53:48):
businesses by state agencies andto assist agencies in the
implementation of this policythrough race, ethnic, and it
used to have gender neutralmeans.
It has now changed it to andsex neutral.
It now reads all rules,guidance, and statutes related
to the hub program must beinterpreted, applied, and
(54:11):
implemented in accordance withthe prohibition against race and
sex-based discrimination.
Brett (54:18):
What do you think this means to the L QIA plus
community?
How does it impact on like theTammy Wallace and the chamber?
What what are they gonna gethit with?
Julie (54:26):
All small businesses are looking for ways to diversify,
ways to insulate against marketvolatility, ways to grow in in
scale and to hire more peoplefor businesses that are
considering you knowdiversifying in the government
space, whether that's your localschool district or a university
(54:47):
or a city or a county, TexasParks and Wildlife or Textile,
you know, any in all of thedifferent state of Texas
agencies where they might havebeen excited before that there
are programs and certificationsto help them through that
process.
Now there are still contractsand opportunities of all shapes
(55:10):
and sizes out there, whetherthey're under 50,000, under
5,000, under, you know, fivemillion.
But I think it just adds noiseand uncertainty in places that
we just don't need it.
Let's just make it a smallbusiness program.
If we're gonna take all therace and gender and all of that
(55:30):
other stuff out of it, then theone thing that all 99% of these
businesses have in common istheir small businesses.
Let's take this energy and putit towards something good.
How do you navigate this space?
And and what are some otherspecific resources that you need
in order to be successful?
Brett (55:51):
And you're with B2G Victory, so that's what they're
gonna look for.
Julie (55:54):
Correct.
It's uh b2g victory.com, or youcan email me directly, it's
Julie at B2G Victory.com.
We've got a YouTube channelthat's got over 200 videos um up
there as well that businessescan can access anytime.
Brett (56:10):
Okay.
Just real quick, if I am asmall woman-owned business and I
identify with the LGBTQ IA pluscommunity, uh, and I want to
get that certification, would Ido that through the national
chamber or would I do thatthrough the city of Houston, or
can I go either way?
Julie (56:27):
So I would reach out to Tammy and the team.
Okay, yeah, the the HoustonChamber.
Uh-huh.
The Greater Houston LGBTQchamber and go through them
because they're an affiliatewith the national.
City of Houston does notcertify LGBTQ businesses.
They have a directory.
So once you get the LGBTQcertification, you can be listed
in their LGBTQ directory.
Brett (56:49):
Okay.
So Tammy Wallace, GreaterHouston LGBTQ plus Chamber of
Commerce.
Commerce is the one that you'regonna look for.
Julie (56:56):
Yes, that's where you're gonna go to get your LGBTQ
certification if you'reinterested in doing that.
Yes.
Brett (57:01):
And we'll definitely keep you on RSpeed Dial to uh talk
about whatever happens next.
Julie (57:06):
Absolutely.
And thanks for the opportunityfor government contracting and
procurement uh by fire hose.
Thank you so much.
Brett (57:14):
Thank you for listening to Queer Voices.
Please consider donating toKPFT at the website, kpft.org.
This is listener-funded radioand podcast programming.
We get no other funding, andall the people on this podcast
were volunteers.
Ghost of Glenn (57:30):
This program does not endorse any political
views or animal species.
Views, opinions, andendorsements are those of the
participants and theorganizations they represent.
In case of debt, pleasediscontinue use and discard
remaining products.
This is Queer Voices, a radio show on KPFT and a podcast
that has been around for overfive decades.
We are the voice of Houston'sLGBTQIA plus community.
I am Red Cullum, and coming up,we have Deborah Moncrief Bell
talking with author and comedianJenny Block about how to be a
unicorn and how to manifest.
And then several of our queervoices gather together for a
(00:23):
roundtable discussion of thebathroom bill and several other
political issues.
And finally, I get to speakwith Julie Irvin Hartman about
changes to the hub certificationfor small businesses.
Queer Voices starts now.
Deborah (00:38):
This is Deborah Moncrief Bell, and I have caught
up with Ginny Block.
I've been trying to catch upwith her for several weeks now
because Jenny has a new bookcalled Badass Manifesting: How
to Manifest Abundance, Success,and the Joyful Life of Your
(01:00):
Dreams.
Now, last time we had you on,Jenny, you had just uh come out
with Be That Unicorn.
What's the story behind that?
Jenny Block (01:09):
People always tell me that my superpower is making
other people feel good aboutthemselves.
And they would say, I just wishyou got I could just put you in
my pocket and just have younext to me all day long saying,
You got this, you're doinggreat, you're terrific.
And I thought, huh, you sort ofcould have me in your pocket if
there was a cute little bookwith a unicorn on the cover.
So be that unicorn is all aboutbeing your very best self.
(01:33):
That unicorn is someone whoknows how to stand up for him or
herself without hurting otherpeople.
I was worried that too manyfolks, especially LGBTQ folks
and women, minorities, werealways leaning in.
We're always saying, yeah,okay, that's fine.
And then the other thing, justsort of saying, whatever, I
didn't love that attitudeeither.
So my thought was how can wewalk through life and be
(01:57):
ourselves and be authentic andstand up for ourselves, but
still be kind to other peoplealong the way.
Deborah (02:04):
Now you've written several other books.
I urge everybody to check outJenny Block and the publications
she has produced.
Now you have this book, BadassManifesting.
How did this book come about?
Was it a segue from the otherone?
Jenny Block (02:22):
A little bit.
It was interesting because itwas kind of what you just said.
It was that people looked at mylife, watched my Instagram,
followed my books and my career,and thought, holy smokes, how
did this small town rabbis girlfrom Maryland end up writing for
the New York Times and afive-time book author and
traveling all the world?
I thought about that for aminute, and some of everything
(02:44):
is luck, I believe.
I hope some of what I've donehas to do with talent.
And I think the other part isreally believing that you can,
plus putting yourself in theroom where it happens.
I remember when that book, TheSecret, came out and people were
making vision boards andthinking positively, and there
were all these mantras.
(03:04):
And then there was this weirddownfall afterwards because
people said, Well, nothinghappened.
I didn't get the Mercedes.
I never became VP.
I didn't meet the person of mydreams.
And when I talked to thesepeople and asked about their
process, I learned there was noprocess.
There was nothing beyond thevision board.
And I am a firm believer inthinking positive.
(03:25):
I am a firm believer in puttingyour, you know, putting your
vision board together andthinking about what it is you
really want.
And then you have to putsomething into action to let the
universe know that you reallywant that.
I mean, the universe is outthere ready to support us.
The universe really wants us tosucceed.
But the universe is a blankslate and needs to know what it
(03:48):
is that you really, really,truly authentically want.
Not what you've said youwanted, but the things that
you're willing to do the workfor in order to have.
I have long said I wanted to bean actress.
And I did all this acting workwhen I was younger.
And then my I would whine to mydad, Oh, I wish I lived in New
York.
I wish I could be an actress.
(04:09):
And he said, Well, then go.
And I said, Oh, I can't.
I don't have any money.
He said, I will loan you moneyto move you to New York.
Oh, I don't know anybody there.
I have lots of congregants whohave family there.
Every excuse I made, my dadtrampled all over.
And my dad said, if you reallywanted this, you would have
said, Great, when do we start?
And so part of manifesting isreally figuring out what the
(04:33):
heck you actually want and whatyou're willing to do to make
that happen.
Does it mean it automaticallyhappens?
Of course not.
There's still the world andreality and science and all of
that.
But I guarantee thatmanifesting it will give you a
hundred percent more chance ofit making happen than not doing
it.
Deborah (04:49):
Yeah, you've got to at least try because it otherwise
it's not gonna happen for sure.
Absolutely.
What are some of the steps thatpeople need to use in order to
move beyond vision board toaccomplishment?
Jenny Block (05:03):
The very first one is to say it out loud, and it
can be as simple as saying it toyourself.
I am working on making my bodystronger.
So every morning when I wakeup, I say, I get stronger every
day, every day I'm gettingstronger.
That's how I start my morning.
So it reminds me that I need togo on my walk.
It reminds me that I need topull out my little weights and
(05:26):
my elastic bands.
It reminds me first thing inthe morning what we're gonna
focus on as we walk throughoutthe day, that I should take the
parking space that's furtheraway, that I should take the
stairs instead of the elevator.
Then I really believe inwriting it down.
You can believe me or not, butone day I wrote this, I don't
(05:46):
know, three paragraphs about myideal partner.
And six months later I met mynow wife.
Now, is it a magic trick?
I don't know, maybe a littlebit of universe magic, but a lot
of it has to do withconsciousness.
Once I wrote it down, once Isaid it out loud, then I was
actively paying attention towhat would lead me to meeting
(06:06):
that kind of person.
The other thing is to tellsomeone, make yourself
accountable by saying out loudto someone, I am writing a
novel.
And then when you see themagain, they say, How's that
novel coming?
And you can check in withyourself and say, gosh, I
haven't started it.
Maybe I really don't want that.
Or maybe today's the day tostart working on it.
So you have to put it out loudin the universe, you have to
(06:28):
share it with someone else, youhave to take the steps that are
going to get you there, you haveto write it down, you have to
really put yourself in themindset and in the physical
space of making those thingshappen for you.
Deborah (06:42):
So, what sorts of things are in the book?
Is it a step-by-step or uh howhow do you present badass
manifesting through the book?
Jenny Block (06:53):
So each chapter has a story of how I have
manifested something, a literalstory from my life, from you
know, silly to, you know, moreimportant things.
And then it has mantras for youto wake up every day and say.
And then it talks about how youcan use those to figure out
what it is you want, and thenhow you can make those things
(07:13):
happen.
The back of the book even hasspace for you to take notes and
work through your process.
And you can even email in toget a journal that you can print
out so you can keep track ofwhat you said you wanted and
check back later and be like,holy smokes, I actually made
that happen.
Or keep track of the thingsthat you've written down, and
six months later you think, huh,maybe that's not really what
(07:35):
I'm working towards anymore.
Or maybe today's the day Istart working on it.
I think so much of manifestinghas to do with accountability.
I think it gets really easy.
I hate the word lazy, maybelaxadaisical.
Half the time I can hardlyremember what it is I have to do
that day and remember to eatsomething and remember to go to
(07:56):
bed on time.
So we lose track of the biggerpicture of the higher things
that we want.
And then all of a sudden timepasses and nothing happened for
us.
So I really believe thatmanifesting has to do with being
accountable in whatever waysare useful to you, writing it
down, speaking it out loud everyday, having a buddy.
(08:16):
I have a uh my best friend andI walk together every morning.
She texts at 650 or 750,depending on the day.
And we're outside by seven oreight, depending on the day.
Without that, I mean, that'snot, I mean, is that
manifesting?
I don't know in a way.
I kept saying to myself, whycan't I get up every morning and
walk?
And then all of a sudden mybest friend called and was like,
(08:37):
Do you want to walk with me inthe morning?
Again, was it a magic trick?
Did the universe poke her andtell her to text me?
I have no idea.
I don't how I don't know how itworks in terms of that part.
I just know that if you dothose steps, it does work.
You lose nothing by trying.
Right.
Absolutely, absolutely.
I mean, the very fact that Iwrite for the New York Times was
(08:59):
a complete and totalmanifestation.
I was writing about food andentertainment and travel, and
then COVID hit.
And literally I had nothing towrite about.
There was no restaurants to goto, no trips to take, no shows
to see.
Clearly the world stopped.
And I thought to myself, whatam I gonna do with this time?
How long are we gonna be doingthis?
(09:20):
Where would I like my brain tobe?
And I thought, if I could justtell happy stories, love stories
or happy stuff all the time formy sake and to share that with
other people.
Well, I'll be darned if a weeklater someone posted on
Facebook, you know, you see, Idon't know, whatever, however
that algorithm works, like afriend of a friend that posted
(09:43):
there's a really cool weddingcoming up, a COVID-safe wedding.
Does anyone know anyone at theNew York Times?
And I thought, huh, I don't,but I could.
So I went into my writer'sgroup.
Does anybody know anyone at theNew York Times?
Someone offered to write thestory.
I said, oh no, no, I'm I wantto pitch it.
She very generously shared hercontact there.
(10:03):
I emailed the New York Times ona Friday morning, and that
afternoon I got an email thatsaid, Let me call you on Monday.
And it was the longest weekendof my life.
But on Monday morning, shebooked me to write that wedding,
and I've been with them almostsix years now.
I mean, how on earth does thathappen?
You you have to believe insomething.
(10:23):
How on earth otherwise wouldthat happen?
Deborah (10:26):
You've provided some wedding stories for Outsmart
magazine, and you also publisharticles in the Dallas Voice.
So you've been at this writinggig for a while.
Was that something that youstudied to be a writer, or did
it come about afterwards?
Jenny Block (10:43):
It's funny you should ask that because my mom
would say that I've been writingsince I could write, or even
before I could.
I would write stories andillustrate them, and she would
turn them into books for me.
I started out in college inmass communications, and a very
mean professor waggled her longred finger-nailed finger at me
(11:04):
with her diamond-encrusted Rolexrattling and shit, said,
Promise me you'll never writefor publication, and gave me my
first F.
And so I toddled myself intears over to the English
department and became an Englishmajor, ended up getting my
master's in composition andrhetoric, and started teaching
writing.
And one day a student said tome, What do you write?
(11:27):
And I said, Sometimes I writetest banks or workbooks.
And they're like, So you teachwriting, but you're not a
writer?
And I thought, holy guacamole.
Yeah, you're right.
I teach writing and I am not awriter.
I mean, I'm an academic writer,I guess.
I qualified, I have the degree,I know how to teach an
argumentative essay.
(11:47):
But wow, I I am not a writer,but I would like to be.
So I went to a writingconference, and I'm ashamed to
say that I cornered an editor inthe parking garage so he
couldn't get to his car until heagreed to let me write for the
um Virginia Horse Quarterly.
He assigned me a 250 words on atrail ride that I went on for
(12:11):
$50.
And that was my first articleever from that article.
I just kept parlaying that.
We moved to Dallas, Bub theeditor at D magazine, took that
and ended up at The Observer.
Then it ended up at the DallasMorning News.
Along the way, I got a columnat the Dallas Voice.
I ended up writing a book thattook me to write for magazines,
(12:31):
led me to my next book.
I mean, it's it was, I mean,was it manifested?
Was it yeah, yes, I'm going toanswer my own question.
I manifested that life bystarting with a simple question
and answering it for myself.
Deborah (12:46):
Yep.
It always that's a very goodway to come up with something is
someone I know said, I'm I'mgonna go have a sit-down with
myself.
Jenny Block (12:56):
I love that.
I love that.
That's I don't think we haveenough sit-down with ourselves.
And a lot of it is that we'rebusy and overwhelmed.
And there's that wonderfuladage uh about the man who went
out every day to saw down trees.
And every day it seemed like hewas sawing down fewer and fewer
to the point where he wentfrom, you know, a hundred to
(13:17):
two.
And his friend said, Well, haveyou thought about why that
might be?
And he's like, No, I don'tknow.
I'm getting old or tired ofthis job.
He said, Have you thought aboutyour tools?
And he said, What do you mean?
He said, When was the last timeyou sharpened your saw?
He said, I don't have time tosharpen my saw.
I think about that all thetime.
If we spend a little timesharpening our saws, a little
(13:41):
time manifesting, a little timefocusing on what it is that we
really want and how we could getthere, we would be back to
chopping down a hundred trees.
Deborah (13:49):
Although we really don't want to chop down all the
tricks.
Jenny Block (13:52):
Good point.
So maybe I need to come up witha new one for that.
But how about uh fishing in awell-stocked pond?
Deborah (13:58):
Yeah, yeah.
That sounds good.
So you said that you had thisdream of being an actress and
you have done some performance.
And in recent years, what youstarted doing stand-up?
Jenny Block (14:11):
Yes, it was kind of funny how that happened
because the stage bug has longstayed with me.
And I started speaking onOlivia Travel cruises and Olivia
Travel Resorts.
After people would see me, theywere like, that was really
great, but I wouldn't billyourself as a speaker.
I would bill you as a stand-upcomedian.
And I thought, wow, I reallynever thought about myself that
(14:34):
way.
But, you know, a lot of comedyis storytelling.
And when I tell the storiesthat, you know, led to my books
or part of my early books,they're funny.
So I had spoken to a musicfestival in Michigan that used
to take place on what we callthe land, which is where
Michigan Women's Festival orMichigan, uh, where Mitch Fest
(14:55):
used to take place for 40 years.
They've sort of reinvigoratedthat land and are having
festivals there now.
And they asked me to, theyasked me to MC.
And I was like, oh my gosh, Iwould love to.
That would be great.
And she said, you know, you cantalk in between the acts and
introduce people.
And I was like, okay, thatwould be terrific.
So I get there and they hand methe program and it says Jenny
(15:17):
Block Comedian.
And I was like, uh-oh.
And I thought, well, there youhave it.
You manifested that a littletoo strongly.
And so I went on stage, and Iwill admit, I think it's harder
to be funny when you're expectedto be funny, but it went great.
And from that festival, someoneasked me to do stand-up at
their club in Colorado.
(15:38):
I don't know if that will endup being a big chunk of my
career, but definitely speaking.
I I love, I love that.
I do love an audience, I won'tlie.
And I do love people makingpeople laugh.
I like making them cry too.
I like making people think,like stop for a minute and
think.
Because again, the world is sofast, and in some ways we're, I
(15:59):
don't know, spending a lot oftime surviving, especially these
days.
But I think there's a lot to besaid for taking a moment to
think about how we can do morethan just survive.
Deborah (16:09):
What's the best advice anyone ever gave you?
Jenny Block (16:12):
Well, you kind of said it yourself.
My dad always says if you don'tgo up to bat, you're never
gonna get a hit.
I mean, he has told me just tosay yes.
I mean, that that is probablythe best piece of advice I've
ever gotten.
My father just says to say yes.
He says, I've never gotten ajob that I'm qualified for.
I always just figure it out.
(16:32):
Can you do this?
Yeah, sure, absolutely.
And then I call somebody ornowadays Google it, or if they
think I can do it, well, thensure I can do it.
I just need to figure it out.
Um, I didn't realize how oftenI would see people who had
things or were doing things orwere being things that either
they simply gave themselvespermission or they asked
(16:55):
somebody.
And then I would remember,well, that's what your dad
always says.
Just ask.
I mean, as simple as we wentout to dinner with a bunch of
people at a very crowdedrestaurant.
We had a reservation, and thetable was one of those really
tall bar tables.
You know, you sit on stools.
Right.
Deborah (17:11):
I had to do that.
Jenny Block (17:11):
And my exactly.
And my friend had just had ahip replacement.
I'm only five feet tall, sothat's not a great place for my
all five feet of me.
And it was swamped.
And my friend had already askedwhen we checked in if we could
have another table, and she saidwe were too they were too busy.
And I thought, okay, but re-are you sure?
And I looked around and sawsome tables we could push
(17:33):
together.
And I went back up and said,Listen, I know you're busy.
I know this is basicallyimpossible, but we will help.
You know, this will be a veryuncomfortable meal for my friend
if if we can't do this.
I I would, it just would mean alot to me.
And she was like, Yeah, okay,sure, let's let's make that
happen.
Like, and I thought, I couldhave not asked.
(17:55):
I could have not wanted toquote unquote bother her, but I
wasn't rude, I wasn't demanding,I didn't have any expectations.
She could still say no to me.
But sometimes we just have toask for the things that we want
or need, again, withoutexpectation, without demand,
knowing that no is a completesentence.
Um, but we have to at leastask.
Deborah (18:17):
Well, we've been talking with Ginny Block, a
writer, a performer, badass,about her book, Badass
Manifesting.
Ginny, you've been so busygoing around uh launching the
book.
Uh, where are we with it rightnow?
And what comes next for GinnyBlock?
Jenny Block (18:34):
So with the holidays, and my wife and I are
going on a week-long cruise withMSc because they are happily
here in Galvasoon.
Um, and then right afterChristmas, we're spending three
weeks on a princess cruise,going to all the Caribbean
islands, going to try to relax alittle, and then it's right
back to the races.
I have a signing in Dallas inJanuary, and we're gonna start
(18:56):
booking into the new year.
So, and I'm gonna say out loud,Deborah, I'm going to write a
novel.
All right.
So that's those are my plans.
Deborah (19:06):
Well, you can titillate us with what developed
with the novel, and be sure tocome back and join us so we can
talk about it on queer voices.
When someone gets the bookBadass Manifesting, they don't
just get a book because you havemade available through email
for people to contact you, andyou're you're also serving as a
(19:27):
guide towards this uh philosophyof badass manifesting.
So that's good.
Jenny Block (19:33):
Yeah, it's terrific.
And I love to be to hear howhow it's working for people.
I love for people to DM me onInstagram who say, you know,
they love it or this is whatthey've tried.
The book contains a lot ofquotes from a lot of people who
have manifested things in theirlives, and I love to see how
that works for people.
Deborah (19:50):
Well, I appreciate you being with us on Queer Voices.
Jenny Block (19:54):
Well, I thank you so much for having me and giving
me the opportunity to talkabout badass manifesting and to
Just spend some time with you.
Brett (20:11):
Hi there, this is Brett Cullum, and today I am joined by
several of our queer voices.
We have Deborah Moncrief Bell,we have Brian Hlavinka, Joel
Tatum, and Arlie Ingalls alltogether for a roundtable
discussion of recent events.
And I wanted to kick us offwith the Texas Bathroom Bill.
This is Senate Bill 8.
(20:31):
They recently enacted it.
December 4th is when it tookinto effect.
It restricts transgenderindividuals from using restrooms
and changing facilitiesmatching their gender identity
in public buildings, schools,and universities.
So it requires you to use thebathroom that is your sex
assigned at birth.
It also impacts prisons anddomestic violence shelters.
(20:52):
It's really hateful because itis asking you to identify as
strictly what you are assignedat birth.
Brian (20:58):
Stringly your papers.
It is very much that.
We live in 1930s Germany.
I say it all the time.
Deborah (21:06):
What's particularly disturbing is because this
targets trans women.
They're men, and men shouldn'tbe in women's spaces such as
bathrooms.
But the reality is what wedon't want is men in those
(21:28):
spaces.
And there's already laws tothat effect.
So this was totally directed,mean spirited towards trans
women.
I've been in the bathroom withtrans women, and my only
complaint is that they hog themirror.
Brian (21:50):
It's good old-fashioned red-blooded hate.
They're dividing our communityinto segments and going after
them.
Lee (21:57):
Yeah, I think that there's certain politicians that have
found a wedge issue that theycan use to separate our society
in a way that uh that polarizespeople, which which is unfair to
our trans community.
But if they really were trulyconcerned about fixing that
problem, there are other optionsthat they haven't even
entertained, such as instead ofmaking them public spaces, those
(22:20):
rooms are typically largeenough that you could carve them
up into smaller, intimatespaces where there aren't
multiple people in there.
And then who would know?
So I don't think that they'relooking to solve the problem.
They're only looking to use itas a wedge issue.
Brett (22:34):
Well, and it's been so long that they've been working
on this.
And I don't understand theirfascination with bathrooms.
Deborah (22:40):
I mean, what's so low on my list of things?
Because it's not aboutbathrooms, it's about them uh as
has been expressed, dividing acommunity, dividing people,
targeting a vulnerablepopulation that already has
threats against it all the time.
(23:00):
I've been in restrooms withother women who maybe they had a
bit of a masculine presentationand they sometimes were
challenged about where theywere, which in a way was kind of
funny.
But it's that that happens too.
I know there's already been afew cases where a cisgender
(23:22):
person was in a restroom and gotchallenged for being in the
wrong bathrooms.
If I were a trans person, Imust be feeling about to be
targeted this way and concernedabout what if I'm someplace and
I need to use the bathroom andit's one of those places where
(23:42):
I'm not allowed to go to therestroom that that I identify
with as far as gender.
What do you do on a plane?
Brian (23:50):
If you're on a plane, what do you do?
Brett (23:52):
Right, exactly.
And that's kind of my point.
Well I mean unisex bathroomsare everywhere.
Yes.
Yeah.
We have them all in our houses.
I mean, come on.
Deborah (23:59):
On a plane, it's just one person at a time.
There's not likely to be asituation.
Everybody can use the restroomon a plane.
Brett (24:07):
Right.
Yeah, it's not designated.
And I don't know what it woulddo with unisex bathrooms in
public spaces, but the law isaimed at public spaces.
So we're looking atcourthouses, we're looking at
schools, we're looking at thingsthat are somehow tied to a
government.
A private, a restaurant, aclub, they can do whatever they
want.
They can still assign bathroomsand not enforce this.
(24:27):
Now, the wild thing is that theenforcement is on the
establishment.
The person that gets fined isthe establishment.
If there's a violation, thebuilding or the person that runs
it is $25,000 for the firstinstance and then $125,000 per
day for every subsequentviolation.
Wow.
Lee (24:46):
Right.
And the bill goes on toidentify those areas within
those buildings that are beinglooked at restrooms, showers,
changing rooms where you'regoing to have multiple people in
a shared space.
So index operates it from theairplane restroom there.
Right.
It's not a shared space.
Brett (25:03):
Yeah, it's not a privately owned, corporate, you
know, or personally owned thing.
But one of the wild thingsabout this is you think about
universities and showers andchanging rooms.
Well, here we are again talkingabout the sports ramification
of that.
Lee (25:16):
Right.
Because a few years ago, Idon't remember if it was a sport
event or the rodeo, but duringone of the breaks in the
performance, the women's room,the line was so long, many of
the women went to the men's roomto use the restroom, and we
never heard anything about that.
Uh yeah.
How would that have beentreated?
Deborah (25:35):
Yeah, we take over.
There's been lots of caseswhere that was the case.
The men's room was a lot moreuh available than the women's
room because uh the it takes usa little longer.
Uh we're not using the urinals,we've done that.
Somebody keeps lookout and forthe most part it's fine.
(25:55):
I've never had a situationwhere there were any problems.
Lee (26:00):
Right.
So I go back to I don't believethe objective of this bill was
to solve the problem.
I think it was to continue thewedge.
Deborah (26:08):
Yeah.
We're talking, I mean, transpeople that as they navigate the
world, there's so much theyhave to take into consideration,
just as as women do aboutsafety.
It's just like one of thestupidest things that we could
be doing because they'remanufacturing a problem and then
(26:29):
coming up with a so-calledsolution.
There was already a law in thebooks about using the
appropriate bathroom, but that'sbased on the gender you
identify with.
Brian (26:41):
I I think that they need a boogeyman, and this is a tr
this is a very convenienttarget.
Well, it's decades old.
I mean, it's been going onforever.
Brett (26:48):
They've been pushing it for a long time.
They just have the power now toactually get through it.
They've been in bold.
Yes.
And it it's it's wild to thinkabout what it impacts on
shelters and prisons becausethat prison housing, a shelter
some family violent shelters,that's gonna cause a really huge
problem for the transcommunity.
Nobody's protecting anybodyfrom any pain.
Brian (27:07):
Such a small percentage of the community.
Brett (27:09):
Yes, and how do you enforce this?
I mean, they're they're askinglike are you gonna it's gonna be
vigilante, it's gonna be peoplein the restroom that just
suspect.
And like what Deborah saidearlier, where's the line?
Joel (27:22):
How are you gonna go about knowing who is supposedly male
or female when they're steppinginto a woman's bathroom, unless
you do certain things that areintrusive to to women.
So isn't this just gonna affectwomen harder just as much as it
affects trans women?
Deborah (27:38):
Well, it will affect women who who are accused of
being male, uh when they're whenthey're actually cisgendered
women, just maybe masculinepresenting.
The ACLU did a workshopaddressing this bill, and
hopefully we can get them on totalk more in depth and ideas for
(27:58):
navigating the situation.
Brian (28:01):
You know, we've seen this movie before.
There's going to be patchesthat go on your your shirt that
tell identify who you are.
I mean, this is not new.
Brett (28:07):
And then they also uh tweaked Senate bill 12.
So that was the bill thataddressed uh drag shows in
public and also addresses DEI inschools.
You cannot teach anything thatis not approved by the state.
So no inclusive programming oranything like that.
Heinous.
They're calling it the TexasDon't they gay bill.
(28:28):
Where are the kids going to gettheir information?
Deborah (28:30):
They've done the 1984 thing where they've rewritten
history or taking people out ofhistory on the websites and in
school curriculum.
It's like these people didn'texist or their contributions
didn't matter.
But they've done it certainlywith black and indigenous people
as well as women.
I just wonder what their fearis.
(28:52):
Why are they so afraid of aninclusive and diverse society?
Lee (28:58):
They should want those discussed in a supportive
environment where you can givethem the first message that
comes into their head aboutcommunities that that you might
be concerned about or want tostay away from.
If your message is not the onethat comes into their mind, when
they meet these communities,uh, you're gonna send them out
in the world without themknowing anything about it.
(29:19):
And somebody who has noallegiance to the well-being of
your child is going to explainto them what those communities
are, and they're probably goingto do it in a way that preys
upon them.
For me, it's counterintuitiveto not have those discussions
about those all communities thatexist in our society, and then
give your child the words theythey should that should come
into their mind first.
Brett (29:39):
And that just stays on the books, the SV12.
So uh definitely impacts ourpart of our community that does
drag and the part of ourcommunity that does any kind of
outreach in schools.
Deborah (29:49):
So that's what's the restriction on drag?
Brett (29:53):
It is not allowed to be in any kind of public setting
where children might be exposedto it.
Right.
Brian (29:59):
Um save the children.
Yes, save them from the evildrag queen.
The makeup.
Deborah (30:05):
From what I understand, children love drag
queens.
Of course they do.
If you've seen any of theinteractions, they're just like
in awe of uh and and it's socute.
You're brainwashing those kids.
So so that they'll be good andloving, fine human beings?
Brett (30:22):
Yes, and they'll take it all the time up with the mirror.
Well, another thing thathappened this past week, I there
were revisions to thehistorically underutilized
business certification program.
We we refer to it as hubcertification.
So this program used to helpwomen-owned business, it used to
help minority-owned businesses,and it helped veteran-owned
(30:43):
businesses.
Well, now they have strippedwomen and minorities completely
out of it.
The program now is only gonnabe eligible for service-disabled
veterans.
So no women, no minority.
They're actually they're gonnacall it now uh veteran heroes
united in business.
So it's still hub, but we hadthe V.
Wow.
Yeah, but it's gonna reallyimpact the LGBTQ Chamber of
(31:06):
Commerce.
I have a segment coming up nextthat we really go into it a
little bit more.
So we don't have to talk aboutthis too hard in the actual
bill.
They removed any reference togender and replaced it with the
word sex.
So what do you think thatmeans?
Deborah (31:20):
Because the concept is that sex is what you're born
with, what you're identified asbirth, male or female, based on
what your genitalia is, whereasgender is a social construct and
people can identify with theirgender, which for most of us, if
we're cisgender, is in fact thegender we were born with, or
(31:42):
identified at birth, I shouldsay.
We we don't we don't alwaysknow right at first.
Again, doesn't make any sense,and our mind keeps trying to
find the logic, and you knowit's painful.
Brett (31:54):
Well, it amazes me because again, it's another way
to gatekeep.
But this one actually goes forcis women and minority-owned
businesses as well.
So I mean it's gonna impactmore than just our community.
Deborah (32:04):
Brett, did you see anything as to why they made
this change?
Brett (32:09):
No.
And we'll definitely talk aboutit with our next guest, but it
was just something that theyinstituted last Wednesday.
It's been talked about for awhile.
It's been a program that's beenunder scrutiny and they have
paused a lot of thesecertifications within the state
ever since October, but nowthey've absolutely redefined it.
And they did it when they gotsomebody that would have no
political ramifications becausethey weren't elected, they were
(32:30):
just a temporary comproller.
So they're again takingadvantage of the fact that it's
the time when they have thepower to do these things.
So, and speaking of that, ofcourse, we have been
redistricted, and the SupremeCourt has upheld the decision
despite uh several lower federalcourts saying it was not right.
Deborah (32:49):
The whole redistricting thing, they they
did this one time before wherethey scheduled redistricting in
an off time.
It it's done every 10 yearsafter the the census comes in.
They look at maps and say,well, the populations have
changed and there's been growthhere and people leaving this
(33:12):
area, so we we have to come upwith districts that cover new
new concerns.
You and uh the it's so obviousas to why I mean they told us
why it was done.
They they wanted to make moredistricts that would be
Republican to the point to whereno Democrat could get elected
(33:35):
in those districts.
And what they came up withtears the fabric of what the
districts that existed were.
It's again that power grab,which they keep doing on the
state and national level.
The more damage that they cando, the happier they are.
Look at what happened to theeast wing of the White House.
(33:57):
That says it all.
You just tear it down.
You're tearing down thiscountry.
It behooves us to to know whatis going on, uh uh and to try to
understand it, but also to putin place ideas about what we can
do to make it better.
What what powers do we have,what rights do we have that we
(34:20):
can utilize to uh minimize anydamage, I guess uh eventually
electing people who are going tomake good policy.
Brett (34:28):
Well, it just always fascinates me.
Where are the checks andbalances?
Why why is this just sounfettered right now?
Brian (34:35):
Because they had the courts and they manipulated the
courts to get the decisions thatthey want.
There's no safeguard now.
Deborah (34:42):
Well, nationally, Congress has certain roles and
they have let the person in theWhite House um or on the golf
course do whatever and not holdthem to account and not to exert
the fact that they're the onesthat have the say so over
certain things.
(35:03):
I mean, there's been all kindsof things violated, but they're
not holding the administrationto account.
And I would I would really likefor us to see that.
We we do see that uh Democratsare winning races across the
country in s uh uh seats wherethe the it was thought that a
Democrat could never win.
(35:24):
It's it goes back to the NewDeal and FDR and having a social
safety net in our society, umin in what what's called the
liberal consensus, where weagree that this is a government
and how we want to function, andthat that includes things like
(35:44):
infrastructure and safety netregulations that you know,
health and safety regulations,and nationally they provide for
the common good.
Um, and when we do that, we'retaking care of one another,
we're taking care of ourneighbors.
It it just makes me profoundlyuh sad, and I realize I'm in
(36:06):
grief about what is happening inour country.
Brett (36:08):
It's a definitely hard time to look at all of these and
feel uh that there's some kindof hope.
And that's always what I alwaysask myself is where is the
hope?
And I suppose the hope is withS SB 8 or the bathroom bill, is
that um it can't impact theprivate restaurants, clubs.
They're gonna do the rightthing.
Lee (36:28):
They set their own policy.
Brett (36:30):
And then this uh idea of not being able to teach anything
in school that's not uh statemandated.
I don't know what the answer tothat one is, except for you
know, we have to find ways toeducate people.
And maybe we're part of that.
I don't know.
Deborah (36:42):
Well, we can be involved in different ways, as
what has happened with theelection earlier in November in
school districts all across thecountry, they got flipped from
conservative to moreprogressive.
People getting involved runrunning for office, pick your
candidate and and work for forthem, being informed, elected uh
(37:07):
people they they want to hearfrom us.
They may not agree with us, buteven if if you're contacting
the people that represent you orat least are supposed to be
representing you, whether it beyay or nay, they need to hear
from us because they do payattention.
It's uh it uh my community isnot just the queer community,
(37:31):
it's the third word community,it's the city of Houston, it's
the county.
Brian (37:36):
Did we talk about voting at all yet?
I think this is the runoffelection for city council, so
you only have one name to votefor.
It's Alejandra Salinas, is thatyes, Alejandra Salinas.
Deborah (37:48):
I heard her on a program and I was very
impressed.
Brian (37:52):
We know that Jack Velinski's there right now
painting out cards.
Oh, he's always there.
Brett (37:56):
I drive by.
He's there 24-7.
I don't think he goes home.
I think he lives in thatparking lot.
We could start a rumor, right?
Deborah (38:04):
Well, no, it's not a rumor.
Brian (38:05):
Jack lives in West Grave parking lot.
Deborah (38:07):
Yeah, and there you go.
There's somebody that they'renot just sitting at home uh
wringing their hands, they'reout doing something to make a
difference.
Brian (38:17):
Does that give you hope?
I I'm hopeful, but I don't knowif I have full hope because
Jack's been doing this for yearsand it seems to be getting
worse.
What are you doing, Brian?
What do you do to make you feellike you're making an impact
right now?
I do a lot of prof nonprofitwork.
I I'm part of a group calledthe Texas Pride Community
(38:37):
Foundation, which is a statewideLGBT advocacy fundraising
organization.
I feel like our whole state isbeing attacked.
It is.
And and we've spent the lastentire segment talking about the
ways that we're being attacked.
I hate to say that we'reprivileged to live in a big city
with all the resources, but weare.
And the people that live 50miles outside of Houston are
(38:58):
just in a different world.
This is very true.
Brett (39:01):
The city of Houston.
One of the things that I gotout of the interview that I'm
about to do with the hubcertification process, the city
of Houston still has that.
The city of Houston still willcertify you.
And they will even certify youas an LGBTQIA plus business.
Brian (39:14):
And you know, I think we need to credit Tammy for that in
the LGBT Houston CreativeHouston Chamber of Commerce.
Yes.
Brett (39:19):
They're definitely not there advocating, and another
person that gives me a lot ofhope.
Brian (39:23):
Making a lot of difference in the community.
Thank you, Tammy.
Deborah (39:26):
Tammy Waltz.
Was there anything giving youhope?
There's a history professornamed Heather Cox Richardson.
This woman has given mewhatever kind of hope uh to
understand what is going on.
She's a history professor, butshe does these nightly letters.
They're called Letters from anAmerican, and they're available
(39:48):
on Facebook or on Substack.
This is just this isn't justopinion.
This is someone who knows whatYeah, they know what they're
talking about and can connectwhat is going on.
On two historical references.
We see a pattern.
There's the same kind of thingwas happening.
Lee (40:09):
Anything giving you hope?
I know that we've lived in darkdays before.
I'm and we are there today forsure.
But it n the dark days neverlast because people don't like
to live there.
They like to live where uhthere is light and hope, and
they will gravitate toward thatwhen they're presented with
that.
I don't want to cheer that weyou know we're seeing the tides
turning too early because we'veseen that in our more recent
(40:29):
political environment.
I would like to have somesuccess behind us before we
start cheering that yeah, maybethe tides have turned.
So that that's what gives mehope.
And Joel, what gives you hope?
Joel (40:40):
I'm gonna be honest.
Right now, the only thingthat's really giving me hope
right now is the blackcommunity.
Yeah.
I'm watching everything onsocial media about how the black
community is tackling problemswithin its own community, how
it's tackling white supremacyoutside of the community.
I'm watching how we are fromour black trans queens who have
(41:01):
been the soothsayers of what itwhat these bathroom bills and
everything else is gonna be, andhow it's not only just gonna
affect, which is what the pointI was making earlier, not only
gonna affect the transcommunity, but affect women,
especially African Americanwomen.
Because African American womenare usually have always been
considered masculine on somelevel.
So right now that's where myhope is because I am seeing my
(41:25):
Jasmine Crockett, who is tearingWashington, D.C.
up.
She is tearing Washington,she's tearing everybody apart,
including the orange man inoffice.
It's amazing to watch.
So that's that's where my hopeis.
Brett (41:38):
Well, Jasmine Crockett definitely gives me a lot of it.
She's she's amazing.
Yeah.
So, Brett, answer your ownquestion.
What gives you hope?
Oh my gosh.
I thought I could avoid thisbecause I could just ask all
y'all.
No, no, no.
I have hope that things arecyclical and that we will see it
swing back.
I've seen it swing to theright, I've seen it swing to the
left.
It feels like this last week.
(41:59):
When I look at all of thesethings that have happened, it
seems like we are still in thatright swing where things are
looking bleak.
But I have hope when I look atpeople like Jasmine Crockett,
when I look at people likeDeborah mentioning the professor
on Facebook, uh, and it doesgive me hope that still anything
that's not governmentcontrolled, we can still make
that difference.
Brian (42:17):
And still do that.
I'm hopeful that Queer Voicesis making a difference.
Brett (42:21):
I hope that too.
Brian (42:23):
That we're allowing people to talk and tell the
stories of things that may notbe heard on other places.
Brett (42:29):
Yep, I agree.
Yeah.
And that is uh why we're here.
Hi, this is Brett Cullum.
And this week we gotunfortunate news that the Texas
Comptroller is restructuring thehistorically underutilized
business, or what we call theHub Certification Program.
They have decided to strip awaythe designation for women and
minority-owned businesses.
And according to the TexasTribune, the program will now
(42:50):
only be eligible forservice-disabled veterans, which
in effect makes it the VeteranHeroes United in business.
Now, the hub program wasoriginally created with the
intention of giving minority andwomen-owned businesses a leg up
when seeking state contracts,but it looks like this has been
impacted.
So, my guest right now is JulieIrvin Hartman of B2G Victory.
(43:12):
She works with a company thathelps businesses obtain their
certifications to win governmentand prime contracts.
She helps us get thisdesignation.
So, Julie, what does this meanto minority and women-owned
businesses?
It's a state level, right?
Julie (43:26):
Correct.
And Brent, thanks so much fortaking the time to chat about
this because this is this is areally big deal.
And um want to make sure thatthat we talk about this in terms
of an economic issue and aTexas issue and an issue for
Texas small businesses of of allshapes, sizes.
(43:48):
So the hub program, the stateof Texas Hub program, has been
around for quite a while.
And what that program does isit certifies that a business is
a couple of things.
And first and foremost, thecriteria is that it needs to be
a small business.
99% of all of the businesses inTexas fall in that category.
(44:10):
So this is a huge economicimpact across the state with
government agencies.
There's over 300 state of Texasgovernment agencies, but this
trickles all the way down tocounties, right?
There are 254 counties in thestate of Texas that accept the
hub certification as a part oftheir small business programs.
(44:33):
Then you've got all of thecities as well as school
districts.
What do they all have incommon?
One, they're all businesses.
They buy anything andeverything that these small
businesses provide, whetherthat's paper, pens, carpet,
computers, lights, landscaping,anything and everything.
So there's opportunities forall shapes and sizes of
(44:56):
businesses to diversify ingovernment contracts, regardless
of what the government agencyis.
So what does the HUD programdo?
That certifies that a businessis a small business.
It certifies that it's a localbusiness.
That means local in terms ofthe state of Texas.
Then the other criteria thathas been flipped upside its head
(45:17):
when Mr.
Hancock became the actingcontroller is that that criteria
of are you a women-ownedbusiness or are you a
minority-owned business or areyou a service-disabled veteran?
And absolutely, my father is aveteran, and I want to make sure
that we support everyone whohas supported this amazing
(45:38):
country and this amazing statethat we live in, but that
shouldn't preclude it from otherbusinesses as well.
That certification does notguarantee a contract.
It what it does is it increasesthe amount of opportunities for
these businesses.
You still have to prove thatyour pricing is competitive,
that you have the capability andcapacity to do the work.
(46:01):
What it does is it helps openup some doors and open up some
opportunities that may have notbeen aware of for these
businesses.
So what's happening right now?
Well, with this emergency rulesand these new things that are
out, it's added just even moreconfusion in the government um
(46:23):
contracting space and hasallowed different government
agencies at their discretion towhether or not how they're going
to handle the HUB program.
Well, that's why we havelegislation, that's why we have
tax codes, that's why we haveprocurement rules and
regulations to follow to ensurethe transparency of our tax
(46:46):
dollars and how they're spentand ensuring that they go to
qualified businesses to do thework.
Brett (46:54):
What I'm hearing is that you are looking at flipping this
whole idea of the historicallyunderutilized business, the
women-owned, minority-ownedbusinesses, and just saying,
hey, you know, not any morecertifications for you.
Right.
And you're not gonna have thatlittle extra advantage of having
that certification.
Even though that thatcertification only allowed you
to bid on the business, but itmade people aware of you, made
(47:15):
them more attractive, gave themsome incentive to look at you.
So did you think that this is apart of this whole state's
mission against DEI?
Julie (47:24):
It's it's coming now for a couple of things.
And and some of this writingwas already on the wall.
Hancock, you know, when hebecame acting controller, he was
very clear that that this isone of his top priorities.
But even going back to toJanuary when the the Greater
Houston LBGTQ chamber had theirevent, you know, I was one of
(47:45):
the speakers, and it wassupposed to be at the Federal
Reserve.
And two days before the event,the Federal Reserve canceled and
said, you can't have your eventhere anymore.
And so Tammy and the entireteam at the chamber scrambled
two days before the largestevent of the year, and it was
nominally.
And that shows the support andin the community around it to
(48:07):
make sure that things happen.
That was kind of part of it.
And then with some of the otherchanges that that other states
are doing, as well as othergovernment agencies that are
either changing their programsand making them more race and
gender neutral, or pausing theirprograms entirely to
restructure them.
(48:27):
So this is a trend we've beenseeing happen starting in the
beginning of the year,specifically with our business,
when the comptroller at the endof October issued a freeze of
the program and said thatthey're not going to be doing
any more renewals or any morecertifications.
That happened on October 28th.
As a certified hub business,guess how I found out about it?
Brett (48:51):
Email, probably.
Julie (48:52):
Unfortunately, no, the comp troller didn't notify
businesses.
I found out when a reporterreached out to me.
Brett (49:00):
So they broke up with you via the media.
Exactly.
Horrible.
Julie (49:04):
So the comp troller has has not done a very good job of
communicating it to thebusinesses, a hub certified
business.
Our certification, which is amulti-year certification, was up
for renewal in December of thisyear, ironically.
We started the renewal processin October.
On Wednesday at 11 o'clock, Igot an email from the state
(49:25):
comproller that said ourcertification was renewed.
Then at three o'clock, I gotthe email that the entire
program, if you're not a servicedisabled veteran, then you're
no longer certified.
Brett (49:35):
That's just crazy.
Julie (49:36):
Like so going back to the noise, the confusion, the lack
of communication from thecomproller to the hub certified
businesses, these 15,000businesses that are impacted.
The majority of hub-certifiedbusinesses found out was on
Wednesday when they got theiremail.
Brett (49:56):
It sounds crazy as far as that goes, but and this is a
state level thing.
And then we're looking at thereaction from the city of
Houston, which, you know,trickles down, obviously.
I mean, a lot of times theseorganizations and these
governments, as they go down,it's the state, it just kind of
trickles down.
So what are you even seeingfrom City of Houston?
Julie (50:14):
So City of Houston is a certifying agency.
So you've got the state ofTexas, which is a certifying
agency, and then you've got yourcity of Houston.
So for City of Houstonprojects, the airport, right?
All three of the airports areunder um city of Houston.
They have goals as well.
And if you want to get yourstate of Texas hub
(50:35):
certification, in the past, thecity of Houston had um a
memorandum of of agreement andMOA with the state of Texas hub.
So if you got your city ofHouston, you could also get your
state of Texas hub.
So obviously that's not thereanymore.
And the city of Houston isactually one of the few
government agencies thatactually accepts the LGBTQ
(50:59):
certification.
Brett (51:00):
Wow, I did not know that.
Julie (51:01):
Yes, yes.
So the city of Houston actuallyhas a certified directory that
includes LGBTQ businesses, andthey're one of the few cities in
the country that has it.
So with the city of Houston,you can get a minority-owned
business certification, awoman-owned, a small business,
(51:23):
or a person with disabilities.
So if you have your LGBTQcertification through the NGLCC,
which is the National LGBTQChamber of Commerce, then the
city of Houston will accept thatcertification and put you in
their directory.
So that is still intact.
Brett (51:46):
I'm talking with Julie Irvin Hartman of B2G Victory,
and we're talking about the hubprogram at a state level that is
uh obviously been redefinedcompletely uh just by this uh
comp troller.
Now, this is an emergency act.
Is that what you were saying?
Julie (52:01):
This is, and so they issued actually house um rules
and meetings um under the Texasregister.
And and I went ahead and sentand sent those those two, and we
can kind of talk about a few ofthose.
Interesting, a couple of thingshere is Kelly Hancock is the
acting controller.
Speaker 4 (52:21):
Correct.
Julie (52:21):
He was not voting.
Brett (52:23):
Exactly.
Speaker 4 (52:23):
He's just acting.
Julie (52:25):
The state of Texas hub program was on the floor in this
last legislative session toeither make changes to it or to
to to disband it.
There was a couple differentlegislation, legislative bills,
like none of those passed.
Brett (52:39):
Oh, so they couldn't disband it through the legal
process.
Julie (52:41):
They couldn't disband it through the normal legislative
process.
What they did do, which is tohelp businesses, small
businesses, is they increase thethreshold.
So it used to be $50,000 thathad to go out for formal
procurement, RFP, and all ofthat.
Um and they actually increasedit from $50,000 to $100,000.
(53:02):
So that definitely helped Texassmall businesses enter this
space and increase the amount ofopportunities based on, once
again, your business size, yourcapacity, and your pricing,
right?
You still have to compete inall of this and whether you have
a hub certification or not.
And now with the TexasRegister, did these
(53:25):
modifications to the rules thatbecame effective December 2nd,
changed a couple of things backto the hub program.
So they changed a couple wordsfrom to assist agencies.
This is Rule 20.281, and itsays it is the policy of the
controller to encourage the useof historically underutilized
(53:48):
businesses by state agencies andto assist agencies in the
implementation of this policythrough race, ethnic, and it
used to have gender neutralmeans.
It has now changed it to andsex neutral.
It now reads all rules,guidance, and statutes related
to the hub program must beinterpreted, applied, and
(54:11):
implemented in accordance withthe prohibition against race and
sex-based discrimination.
Brett (54:18):
What do you think this means to the L QIA plus
community?
How does it impact on like theTammy Wallace and the chamber?
What what are they gonna gethit with?
Julie (54:26):
All small businesses are looking for ways to diversify,
ways to insulate against marketvolatility, ways to grow in in
scale and to hire more peoplefor businesses that are
considering you knowdiversifying in the government
space, whether that's your localschool district or a university
(54:47):
or a city or a county, TexasParks and Wildlife or Textile,
you know, any in all of thedifferent state of Texas
agencies where they might havebeen excited before that there
are programs and certificationsto help them through that
process.
Now there are still contractsand opportunities of all shapes
(55:10):
and sizes out there, whetherthey're under 50,000, under
5,000, under, you know, fivemillion.
But I think it just adds noiseand uncertainty in places that
we just don't need it.
Let's just make it a smallbusiness program.
If we're gonna take all therace and gender and all of that
(55:30):
other stuff out of it, then theone thing that all 99% of these
businesses have in common istheir small businesses.
Let's take this energy and putit towards something good.
How do you navigate this space?
And and what are some otherspecific resources that you need
in order to be successful?
Brett (55:51):
And you're with B2G Victory, so that's what they're
gonna look for.
Julie (55:54):
Correct.
It's uh b2g victory.com, or youcan email me directly, it's
Julie at B2G Victory.com.
We've got a YouTube channelthat's got over 200 videos um up
there as well that businessescan can access anytime.
Brett (56:10):
Okay.
Just real quick, if I am asmall woman-owned business and I
identify with the LGBTQ IA pluscommunity, uh, and I want to
get that certification, would Ido that through the national
chamber or would I do thatthrough the city of Houston, or
can I go either way?
Julie (56:27):
So I would reach out to Tammy and the team.
Okay, yeah, the the HoustonChamber.
Uh-huh.
The Greater Houston LGBTQchamber and go through them
because they're an affiliatewith the national.
City of Houston does notcertify LGBTQ businesses.
They have a directory.
So once you get the LGBTQcertification, you can be listed
in their LGBTQ directory.
Brett (56:49):
Okay.
So Tammy Wallace, GreaterHouston LGBTQ plus Chamber of
Commerce.
Commerce is the one that you'regonna look for.
Julie (56:56):
Yes, that's where you're gonna go to get your LGBTQ
certification if you'reinterested in doing that.
Yes.
Brett (57:01):
And we'll definitely keep you on RSpeed Dial to uh talk
about whatever happens next.
Julie (57:06):
Absolutely.
And thanks for the opportunityfor government contracting and
procurement uh by fire hose.
Thank you so much.
Brett (57:14):
Thank you for listening to Queer Voices.
Please consider donating toKPFT at the website, kpft.org.
This is listener-funded radioand podcast programming.
We get no other funding, andall the people on this podcast
were volunteers.
Ghost of Glenn (57:30):
This program does not endorse any political
views or animal species.
Views, opinions, andendorsements are those of the
participants and theorganizations they represent.
In case of debt, pleasediscontinue use and discard
remaining products.
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