February 12, 2025 • 57 mins
Discover the rich tapestry of Houston's LGBTQ+ history with insights from iconic figures like Judge Phyllis Frye, the first openly transgender judge in the U.S. Prominent voices like Joyce Gabiola, an LGBTQ History Research Collections Librarian, and Brian Riedel from Rice University join us to illuminate the impactful journey of queer organizing in Houston. From the significant contributions of activists like Ray Hill to the ongoing fight against discriminatory laws, we promise you'll gain a deeper understanding of the community’s resilience and the importance of preserving past struggles as we forge a path toward the future.
Embark on a reflective journey through pivotal moments of activism, like the tragic murder of Paul Broussard and the political triumphs of Annise Parker, Houston's first openly gay mayor. As we confront today's pressing challenges, especially for the transgender community, hear firsthand accounts of the evolution of the trans equality movement and the heightened fears faced by trans Texans. We explore the need for unity and intersectionality within the LGBTQ+ movement, addressing the long-standing struggles for trans inclusion and the critical importance of creating inclusive spaces for all voices.
Celebrate the vibrant stories of activism captured by photographer Dalton DeHart, whose lens has documented the community's spirit over the years. From President Clinton to grassroots movements during the AIDS crisis, Dalton's work underscores the power of preserving history for future generations. We honor the everyday heroes who've paved the way for change and share unique experiences from the National LGBTQ Task Force's Creating Change Conference, with stories from Stonewall pioneer Judy Bowenweiner. Join us in honoring the past and embracing the vibrant community spirit as we look toward a more inclusive future.
Queer Voices airs in Houston Texas on 90.1FM KPFT and is heard as a podcast here. Queer Voices hopes to entertain as well as illuminate LGBTQ issues in Houston and beyond. Check out our socials at:
https://www.facebook.com/QueerVoicesKPFT/ and
https://www.instagram.com/queervoices90.1kpft/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, this is Queer Voices, a podcast
version of a broadcast radioshow that's been on the air in
Houston, texas, for severaldecades.
On January 11th, 17Houston-based organizations
serving the LGBT plus communitycame together to host a summit
at the Montrose Center.
(00:21):
There were several speakers,sessions and workshops, and our
own, davis Mendoza-Duruzman, wasthere and brings us this report
from the plenary session.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm Davis Mendoza-Duruzman.
This summit was home to severalsessions and workshops around
community safety, legislativeupdates, access to health care
and gender-affirming care andmore, but the day-long event
started with a plenary divinginto Houston's powerful queer
organizing history.
You're about to listen in on asession moderated by the
Montrose Center's CEO, averyBellew, joined by Judge Phyllis
Frye, the first openlytransgender judge appointed in
(00:59):
the United States.
Joyce Gabiola, lgbt HistoryResearch Collections Librarian
at the University of Houston.
Brian Rydell, historian andfaculty member at Rice
University Center for the Studyof Women, gender and Sexuality.
And Dalton DeHart, longtimecommunity photographer and
founder of the Dalton DeHartPhotographic Foundation, known
(01:20):
for documenting Houston's LGBTQplus history through photography
over the past 35 years.
We hope you enjoy thisinspiring conversation.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
So our first conversation that we're wanting
to have today is to take amoment to look back, because
we're not having thisconversation about how we care
for each other.
We're not starting from scratch, right?
We have a lot of reallyimportant history, and so I am
joined here today by somefantastic folks who care for our
(01:51):
history, who have been a partof our history, who have lots of
really interesting things toshare with us that I hope will
help us to think about our pathforward.
So why don't we start with eachof you introducing yourselves
I'm going to pass the mic downhere and then you will have a
mic on that end so kind of namepronoun and who you are in
(02:11):
community and what you do.
Judge Phyllis Frye, would youlike to introduce yourself to
the room for folks who don'tknow you?
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Good morning all.
My name is Phyllis Frye and mypronouns are judge and your
honor, frye, and my pronouns arejudge and your honor.
I would be remiss, we would allbe remiss, if, at the very
beginning of this historysession, we did not mention the
names of Ray Hill, oki Anderson,rita Wanstrom, gary Van
(02:45):
Ottingham, marian Coleman, steveShifflett and others.
Those especially and I inviteyou sometime today, if you have
not, to go down that hall whereall the banners are that's where
(03:05):
you're going to learn about ourhistory.
I am one of your history makersand I can tell you about that
as we go on, but this was justfor introduction, so I'm going
to pass it on.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
Good morning everyone .
Oh my gosh, I'm sitting next toJudge Fulis-Garay.
My name is Grace Gabiola and mypronouns are they them.
I work at the University ofHouston Libraries as the
archivist for the LGBTQ HistoryResearch Collection.
I'm not sure if I have impactedhistory Someone said you know
(03:44):
what Joyce needs to be invited,so thank you to whomever did
that.
I'm very happy and honored tobe in this room with all of you,
and especially on this panel.
Good morning everybody.
My name is Brian.
Speaker 8 (03:58):
Riedel, my pronouns are he and him.
I have the honor of working atthe Center for the Study of
Women, Gender and Sexuality atRice University, through which
I've gotten to know a great manyof you who have given your
moral histories to preserve ourcommunity's history, about which
we might hear more later andI'm delighted to be in this
honorable environment.
Speaker 7 (04:19):
My name is Dalton DeHart and I suppose most of you
have seen my face, at leastyou've seen my camera.
But I'm looking around the roomand there are very few people
here that I see that I have notactually taken photos over the
years.
But let me assure you mybackground is more.
I taught school for over 35years.
(04:40):
That was really my career.
But then I started takingphotos in the community 35 years
ago and I was just going to doit kind of as a hobby, but it
seemed like, as they say,something happened and I decided
that maybe I should continue todo this.
So I've done it now for 35years and I love you very much
(05:01):
and I love all of you and I knowall these people on the panel
and they're fabulous.
I think my contribution mightbe in the realm of Fogos through
the history, through the years.
What do you want to talk aboutin a little while?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Okay, so we'll go to our first question, and this is
one that I will ask each of youto answer.
So we'll start.
We can just go down the line ifyou like.
So, as we've already said, thissummit was born out of the need
for our community to regroupahead of the incoming
administration.
Many of us are having fear andanxiety about what's going to
come across the next four years.
(05:34):
However, one of the thingsthat's really beautiful again
we're not starting from scratchis that Houston has a really
rich and unique LGBTQ plushistory, and we've already
talked about that's displayingthe banner project.
If you've not seen, I encourageyou to do that here on the
first floor.
For decades, we've ralliedtogether to make change, to take
(05:56):
care of our own.
We've done things like fightthe cross-dressing ordinance
that existed.
We've challenged Texas sodomylaw.
That's one of the things thatthis community and Houston did.
We protested Anita Bryant, whorecently passed away we're still
here, by the way.
We've campaigned for theHouston equal rights ordinance,
(06:20):
which we still do not have.
We hold town meeting one, andso on and so forth.
So I would ask this For each ofyou what's one landmark event
that shaped our local movement?
If you're thinking about allthese things, what's one
landmark event that you wouldname and how do you think that
shifted the Houston politicallandscape or lay the groundwork
(06:41):
for further work?
I'm going to go first.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Oh Well, I'm going to stand up.
Cross-dressing ordinance andthe Houston police.
I know many of you arerelatively new to all this and
you do have fears.
Well, let me tell you what thefears were back in 1976.
(07:10):
Because at that time theHouston police were raiding the
gay bars.
They were raiding the lesbianbars.
They were arresting anybodythat they could.
I knew of several.
Anybody that they could.
I knew of several, as I becamean attorney later on, people
that I represented who werearrested standing in their front
(07:31):
yard because the police thoughtthey were soliciting and that's
why they were in someone'sfront yard.
They were in their own damnfront yard.
We also had an ordinance thatsaid that if you dressed in
clothing that was opposite toyour sex you could be arrested,
(07:52):
and many were Many were.
The police would go into thelesbian bars and I've been told
this by several good friends ofmine that when the word got into
the bar that the police wereabout to enter the bar, that
those women who were wearingpants that zipped up the front,
(08:13):
they were subject to beingarrested for wearing men's
clothing, and so they wouldimmediately unzip, hit the floor
, their friends would pull theirpants off, they would stand up,
put their pants on backwardsand have them zipped up the back
.
That's the stupidity that wasgoing on to keep from being
(08:35):
arrested.
And in the gay bars, if youwere an entertainer, that was
fine as long as you stayed onstage or backstage.
If you came into the group, youwere subject to being arrested.
And so in 1976, when I came outfull time I was 28 years old at
(08:57):
the time, scared out of my wits,and my wife Trish and my wife
Trish we were married for 48years before she passed she and
I were both scared that everyday I went out looking for a job
or petitioning against theordinance, that I could be
(09:19):
arrested.
And I did petition against theordinance.
There is no reason why today,in 2025, you cannot do the same
thing that I did.
Get off your butt and go andmeet your legislators, who will
(09:40):
be sitting in Austin.
It doesn't matter whether theyare Democrats or Republicans.
They need to meet you as anindividual.
You have to make yourself intoan individual.
You have to do that.
(10:01):
We did that back then and that'show I got the ordinance changed
.
Yes, I got the ordinancechanged.
The ordinance changed.
Yes, I got the ordinancechanged.
Four years of lobbying citycouncil members for that to
happen.
In the 90s many of us went toAustin every other year and we
would lobby members of thelegislature and we had many
(10:26):
friends and we educated a lot ofunfriends.
But you've got to get over thisand remember that there were
people before you, like myself,who did some scary stuff back
then.
So get over it and do what youhave to do.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
For this question.
I thought about events that maybe lesser known but have had an
impact on our movement in someway, the seemingly smaller
things that happened, or thepeople who are public figures or
(11:10):
super activists.
I would say that one of thethings is the creation of local
community publications andbroadcast media.
Local community publicationsand broadcast media that
certainly has had an impact onour local movement for equality,
and part of the impact here isvisibility and connection.
(11:36):
Local LGBTQ media has given usopportunities to connect with
others and to be informed ofwhat's happening in our
community and in part throughtheir efforts we know that the
community exists beyond ourimmediate surroundings.
(11:57):
So you know we're familiar withcurrent community publications
that are in print, but there aremuch more like earlier
publications that I learnedabout from the archives, such as
this Week in Texas, montroseVoice and all of its other names
, and lesser-known independentHouston-based publications such
(12:20):
as Asulao, which apparently wasa publication but also a
community space for women incrisis in the 1980s.
But also the radio programAfter Hours certainly had an
impact, especially for folks whowere not quite out.
(12:43):
Who were not quite out and theytuned into the broadcast in
secret, literally from theirclosets, and it gave the
community a means to connect, toknow that we're not alone and
to know that the communityexists and our existence is
(13:10):
resistance.
So, um, and I was thinking aboutthat, because I'm supposed to
create a large exhibition laterthis year and I was talking to
the library administration aboutwhat that would look like, and
so I was thinking about powerand resistance and joy, and I'm
(13:32):
telling our associate dean that,you know, existence, just our
existence, is resistance, thatis joy, and so just it was.
It's all about power, the powerof media to have an impact, and
(13:53):
I'll mention that I know allabout this because folks in our
community preserved materialsthat document this history,
materials that document thishistory.
So what has also had an impacton the efforts of local
historians?
What has also had an impact arethe efforts of local historians
JD Doyle of Gulf Coast Archiveand Museum, now a part of Lover
(14:21):
Foundation, larry Crescioni ofBot's Collection, brandon Wolfe
and so many community memberswho generously donated their
collections.
That is a plug to preserve yourown histories.
Thank you.
Speaker 8 (14:39):
Thank you, joyce, and I'm going to tell you now what
some of us have been able to dowith the things that Joyce was
just talking about.
Everybody knows about Stonewall, right?
Yes, how many people are awareof an organization called the
Gay Liberation Front?
Raise your hands high so youcan see each other.
How many of you know that therewas a chapter of the Gay
(14:59):
Liberation Front in Houston?
Look what just happened.
Front in Houston.
Look what just happened.
The history that JD Doyle'swebsites have preserved, that
historians in our community havepreserved, that publications
like Outsmart continue topreserve and that archivists
like Joyce make available forthe rest of us, not just in the
digital form that we can all loginto online, but go into the
(15:23):
sacred space of an archive andlook at it as a print object
from the year I was born, 1971.
I can't tell you the feeling toknow that my community was
there doing this right.
That means something to me.
So we're standing today in acommunity center that I think we
might take for granted theMontreux Center.
(15:44):
Thank you for hosting us.
Did you know that the firstcommunity center in Houston was
created by the Houston GayLiberation Fund?
It still stands today If you goto breakfast at Barnum's on
Fairview.
Go a little bit further down thestreet and see the house with
the witch's hat.
That's 504 Fairview.
(16:05):
Go a little bit further downthe street and you'll see the
house with the witch's hat.
That's 504 Fairview.
That's the address of theMontrose Gaze G-A-Z-E.
You can see pictures of it inthat 1971 newspaper, but you can
also read about it on JDDoyle's website.
I'd like to tell you a smalltaste of the people who made
(16:29):
that happen.
The Houston Gay LiberationFront got a reputation for being
too radical in the 80s andthat's the history that I was
given when I first got here in1997.
I was like oh well, radicalsSounds like my people, and so I
started learning about them, andit turns out that the first
thing I learned about them isthat they picketed a gay bar for
(16:50):
not allowing black patrons.
They were anti-racists reallyearly on.
As I dug in more, I learnedthat they also picketed the Rice
Hotel where Playboy wasrecruiting bunnies because they
thought it was sexist.
I also learned that they had,early on, a women's caucus.
(17:11):
I also learned that they had achapter at the University of
Houston, one of the onlyuniversity recognized student
organizations of the GayLiberation Front in the United
States.
They knew that youth mattered,they knew that women mattered,
they knew that people of colormattered, and they knew it in
the 70s.
And they made a communitycenter where there was no
(17:33):
alcohol because they knew thatthe bars were toxic for some of
us, even though that was theonly place that many of us could
find each other.
They created the solutions thatwe are still building on today,
and so I give you the GayLiberation Front as a model for
thinking about coalition, across-difference for common good
, and I can't think of a betterway of describing what we're
(17:55):
going to do.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Thanks.
I want to make sure, joyce, butwe don't leave your point about
media because I want to makesure folks see Greg's going to
hate me for this, but Greg Ju isstanding there in the back of
the room, started OutsmartMagazine and is never taking
that for granted.
Speaker 7 (18:14):
When I look back over the last 35 years probably in
1991, when Paul Broussard wasmurdered behind heaven at that
time, which is now South Beachthat was probably a major
turning point in our historybecause after a while because,
as you know, he lay there for anumber of hours before the
(18:38):
ambulance would even arrive andit was only a three-mile ride to
St Joseph's Hospital but ittook 40 minutes to get there
because they didn't want to haveanything to do with anybody
that might have AIDS or wastoxic.
So at that time it was a verysad day, but all of the people
(19:05):
At that time it was a very sadday, but all of the people and
Andrew Edmondson is one of themajor ones who wrote about this
and talked about it, and thatwas, I think, a major turning
point in our community and tothis day we remember what a sad
sacrifice that was.
(19:29):
And finally, after a long while,after the uprising, the people
who did it, the 10 people fromthe woodlands, 17 years old and
that sort of thing, who camePaul thought was just wanting
directions, but then they jumpedout and of course beat him with
a two-by-four with nails in it,and that, I think, was their
turning point.
And the second one I want tojust mention is when Denise
Parker was finally elected tooffice.
I've taken photos of her atmany rallies and of course she
was an activist at RiceUniversity even when she was
(19:52):
there.
And then when she finally gotelected after running several
times, elected after runningseveral times I had the honor of
going to Mossbock Energy, whichat that time was under lock and
key, but I managed to get up tothe office and she reared back
in the chair and put her feet onthe desk and then the voice
(20:15):
reported finally and she hadthat hanging in her office for a
long while.
So Anise is one of the majorfigures in our history because
even as mayor, but before thatshe was really active.
So I would say those two arethe things that we probably want
to remember for a long time tocome and continue to build on
(20:37):
that.
And, of course, if you look outhere, I look around here, and I
see JD and I see Jack and I seeSarah Fernandez and everybody,
all of you have been a majorfigure in the life of this
community, and the people atthis table, of course, have as
well.
All I've done is just takenphotos of people doing all of
(20:58):
these things, and Jerry, jerrySeminoe, as a matter of fact, I
first declined to be on thispanel because I didn't think I
really had much to add to it,because all I did was take
photos.
And then, thanks to people likeJudge Seminoe and others, they
said well, I think you probablyshould tell about some of the
wonderful things that we didrather than all the horror
(21:18):
stories.
So we had many, many wonderful,wonderful events and as we go
through this panel, I'll mentiona couple, three or four dozen
of those maybe.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Thank you so much A few things I want to say before
we go on to the next questionthat I'm kind of hearing.
First of all, I want to saythat Mayor Denise Parker sends
her love to us today.
She could not be with us she'son vacation, otherwise she would
be here and she would befacilitating this panel, which
she was invited to do.
One of the things that we allknow to be true is that the
(21:52):
history that some of you haveshared up and down these tables,
we do not learn this in schoolI know I did not, and we
certainly are not now becausethere's an attack on our
inclusion education, and I wantto know what that does to a
community.
When you are, history is notrepresented, and so we have to
(22:17):
re-educate, or just educate,every new generation of our
community about our history, andso many of us in this room
probably don't know this history, and that's not our fault.
It's because we were not taughtabout our ancestors, which we
should have been where we wentto school, and so it is our
(22:39):
responsibility as our communityto provide that education which
will help us to envision ourfuture.
So that's one thing I'm hearingas I hear all of you speak.
So, judge Fry, I'm going to goback to you with this question
just for you.
You've talked a little bitabout the cross-dressing
ordinance as one particular,very important moment, and I
love how you highlighted that itdidn't just impact transgender
(23:01):
people, but it impacted ourentire community, right?
So we think that we think transfolks it wasn't just about
trans folks, right?
So I love how you highlightedthat.
We do know, going into this nextfour year administration, trans
people are being very,particularly scapegoated.
They've become the kind ofspecial scapegoat in this
(23:22):
particular moment.
That's not particularly new,but it feels more intense in
this moment and that has manytrans Texans particularly afraid
.
We're also going into a Texaslegislative session.
We know we love that everycouple years.
So how would you say the transequality movement has evolved
locally and what would you sayto trans Texans?
(23:43):
You've already given us alittle bit of your wisdom.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
But given our current political climate, Well, you
need to remember that back in 76, the trans community was not
deemed a part of the gaycommunity.
In fact, many of us had tofight for decades before the gay
(24:07):
community, then the lesbian andgay community, then the lesbian
, gay and bisexual community.
Finally, finally, in 2000, well, nationally, 2008, locally,
around the late 90s includedtrans to make us the LGBT
(24:31):
community.
But we were on our own,fighting constantly with the gay
political caucus, actually, andthen the LGB political caucus
for recognition.
It got so bad that one night ata meeting, I just quit.
(24:55):
I resigned publicly from thecaucus and I didn't rejoin the
caucus until Clarence Bagby wasour president of the caucus and
he made sure that trans werecaucus as far as nationally,
(25:23):
because trans were not included.
By that time, I had gone to the79 March on Washington and I'd
gone to the 86 March onWashington and I'd gone to what?
Speaker 9 (25:41):
86 March on Washington.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
And I'd gone do what?
87.
I'm sorry, okay, it was there,thank you.
Yes, it was.
We were not included.
And nationally, I became anational figure.
Thanks to the internet.
I would get all kinds ofarticles from different LG
(26:11):
organizations around the countryand trans were not included.
Concluded, and so, finally,after my fight with the local
caucus in around 89 or 90, Iformed what was called the
International Conference onTransgender Law and Employment
(26:32):
Policy.
And as you were talking aboutour archives, you need to go
into the archives because allfive volumes of the proceedings
from those caucuses, thoseconferences, are there.
And I began on the Internet whatwas called the filibuster, and
(26:57):
I had a very large outreach andI was just blasting people right
and left about trans inclusion.
And finally, and our biggestopponent was the HRC Human
Rights Campaign.
They were our biggest opponent.
(27:18):
They were our biggest opponent.
And sometime in the 90s I don'tremember the year, but there
was a bill in the United StatesCongress to be inclusive in
employment.
It was the EmploymentNon-Discrimination Act.
It didn't pass, but we couldnot get trans into that act
(27:44):
because of HRC and othernational gay and lesbian and bi
organizations.
When 2008 rolled around, we hadeducated enough organizations
that when the EmploymentNon-Discrimination Act was
(28:07):
reintroduced, again withouttrans, I raised such a stake
again on the filibuster.
And there were so many otherpeople around the country trans
people who were active, lesbian,gay and bisexual people who
were inclusive and otherorganizations that had become
(28:29):
inclusive that they all unitedand told HRC that they were not
going to support the Employmentand Non-Discrimination Act
unless trans was included.
And that was the moment, 2008,when trans finally became
(28:51):
officially part of the community.
The EmploymentNon-Discrimination Act once
again did not pass.
It wouldn't have passed anyway,but we were included and we've
been included ever since andit's nice to be part of the
family instead of outside of thefamily.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
We'll add to that.
How many of you have heard orseen in our movement folks who
have removed the T from the G L,v?
How many of you have seen thatRight?
So I would just highlight thatthis conversation is not over,
even within our own community,and I would just offer the
(29:32):
caution that sometimes, when onepart of our community comes
under attack specifically andbecomes scapegoated, one of the
things that some of us can do tomake ourselves feel more safe
is to distance ourselves fromthat part of our community and
make sure everyone knows howwe're different than that part
of our community.
So we're okay.
But that does not keep any ofus truly safe.
(29:56):
So the way that we're all goingto be safe is to insist that we
are together, that we areunited and that we leave
absolutely no one behind andthat we resist even those
conversations within our ownmovement to exclude trans folks
from our broader community.
So now just to pivot a littlebit.
(30:20):
This next question is both foryou, joyce, and Brian, as
stewards of our history andcaretakers of our history.
I know that both of you bringan intersectional perspective to
this panel through your work.
But, joyce, you've named thethings that you do, and also
your identities as queer andFilipino American, and so
(30:41):
sometimes folks get left out ofour telling and our retelling.
One of my mentors likes to saythat when that happens, we have
to do what's called an archivalintervention intervene into the
archive to say who is being leftout of this conversation and in
our storytelling, and I thinkthat's important to lift up
(31:01):
because that continues to impactus today.
So can you both talk about whyit's paramount to center
intersectionality within theLGBTQ plus movement, and are
there any events in our localLGBTQ plus history that you feel
like really exemplified thatdedication to intersectionality?
You've already named some ofthem, but I that dedication to
intersectionality.
You've already named some ofthem, but I'm excited to hear
(31:22):
more.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
Yeah, I was just about to say that Brian pretty
much named some events thathappened at the Liberation Front
regarding intersectionality.
So in general, I just want tosay that centering
intersectionality helps us toalways be aware of the power
(31:48):
dynamics in any given room andit helps us understand that
folks in the community are notmonoliths.
We don't use our money for thesame causes, we don't vote the
same way and we navigate theworld differently because of our
(32:08):
multiple, marginalizedidentities, our experiences, how
formed our present world feels.
And it forcesality, it forces usto acknowledge our own power
and privilege so that we can usethat power for good and to
(32:33):
advocate for others, which Briantalked about earlier on the
panel.
So, and what Avery just touchedon, it helps us to be careful
not to be exclusionary, and thismatters, as we know, when the
(32:56):
community fights for our rights,when the community fights for
our rights, I guess some of whatexemplifies intersectionality.
Again, brian mentioned it, butI'll also say that you know the
creation of so many communityorganizations, because they
create a community and communitybrings empowerment.
(33:21):
Again, it helps folks not tofeel lonely.
That's major, because for me,growing up in Southwest Houston,
you know, was there anyonearound me who was like me?
Were there teachers, myclassmates, my relatives.
(33:44):
Am I really all alone?
And so later on, when I attendedthe University of Houston and I
discovered Global exists, thenthings started to change.
I came out when I was a studentat UH.
I held hands with my firstgirlfriend across campus and at
(34:11):
the time I was still very much.
I was part of the FilipinoStudents Association, but I was
also part of a sorority, yep,yep.
And it was just so powerful tocome out to my sorority sisters
and eventually to my sisters andmy parents, although when I
(34:35):
came out to my parents, ithappened because of a breakup
and it didn't make me feelbetter, but I was fine.
Actually, she, the person whobroke up with me, is actually my
best friend.
She's a chef in Boston, but Icame back to Texas after living
(35:04):
in Boston, los Angeles, sanDiego because of this job which,
miraculously, was createdbecause of some of y'all in this
room, dr Maria Gonzalez, I'msuch a fan of the archives,
thank you.
It came at a very good timebecause my partner and I have a
(35:31):
five-year-old and when we werestill living in San Diego he was
two and we felt compelled tomove back to Texas because we
wanted him to grow up around ourparents, our siblings, our
longtime friends.
And so, miraculously, this jobexisted.
(35:51):
It was out there and, oh my god, I thought I didn't get it
because I didn't hear from themfor a while, but I missed the
voicemail message.
Speaker 7 (36:04):
That's why that's my fault.
Speaker 5 (36:07):
I get to do this for a living Every single day.
I get to be in community withBrian and Dalton and Judge Fry
and all of y' all out there.
So, personally, coming from aCatholic Filipino household in
Southwest Houston to thisspeaking here today, oh my God
(36:32):
y'all.
And I will say that one of thereasons why that inspired me was
the work that Arden Eberslayer,that she did with well, I mean
(36:53):
really with the lesbians overthe age of 50 and With the oral
history project, the oldlesbians oral history project.
I interviewed her for Outsmart,actually in 2010.
Thank you, greg, for thatopportunity, and so I
(37:13):
interviewed her, and because ofthat experience, I thought this
is something that I need to be apart of.
I need to help preserve thishistory, our history, and so
that's why I'm here today.
I think I got off topic.
I'm so sorry.
I also want to say, greg, thatwhen I was in college, I saw
(37:36):
that Outsmart existed and waslike this was amazing.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Thank you.
So same question to you, Brian,about why it's paramount to
center intersectionality.
Speaker 8 (37:48):
Thank you.
So y'all will forgive me.
I'm a teacher, I can't help it.
It's a word that came out ofthe academy and out of legal
circles, that has been used in alot of places, and I wager that
some of us have different ideasabout what it means.
Do I feel the truth in the room?
Okay, have you ever been askedby someone to define what
(38:10):
intersectionality means?
How have you felt?
Okay, so here's your basicprimer.
Intersectionality is the theorythat my experience as a gay man
is not the same as Dalton'sbecause we're of different ages.
My experience as a queer personis different from Kevin
Anderson's because we experienceour race and sexuality at the
(38:33):
same time.
We cannot compare ourexperiences of queerness
directly because of thedifferent ways that we
experience it.
It came out of the courtroomsbecause black women were getting
different results from courtcases when they were testifying
that they were raped than whitewomen.
Kimberly Crenshaw should becredited with that, so carry
(38:55):
that as your pocket definitionfor why intersectionality
matters.
We all have shared experiencesof life from different
perspectives, and I cannotpresume that my solution to
solving my queer problems willmatch your solution to solving
your queer problems if we don'tstart there.
Okay.
(39:15):
So with that out of the way aplug.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
Thank you professor.
Speaker 8 (39:23):
High praise coming from you.
And now I do want to say onemore thing.
Earlier you raised why takingthe T out is a problem.
I want to tell you why that's aproblem, using the
intersectionality analysis,because this is how I respond to
it.
When people say they want to dothat as a political move, the
belief that it makes it safer isbased on the misperception.
(39:46):
The misperception is that mygayness is not gendered in other
people's eyes.
The misperception is that I'mjust like.
You will save me because mysexual activity is not seen as
gender deviant.
Think about that for a minute.
If I don't look gender deviant,I might believe right, I'm
(40:10):
using other people's language,not my own, right.
I might believe that I can besafe.
And the minute that I do that,the minute I say half a loaf is
better than no loaf at all, I'veactually cut out my own feet
from underneath me.
Because then what happens next?
I'm on the plate Because my sexlife makes me look different in
(40:30):
a gendered lens.
Do not buy the poison.
Do not swallow it.
Reject it.
Help others reject it.
That's why intersectionalitymatters.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Thank you, dalton, this next question is for you.
You talked about your role witha great deal of humility, I
must say, in documenting all ofour moments, our important
moments of activism, but alsoimportant moments of joy and
celebration, which is soimportant.
So, and you've been the witness, from behind that camera, to so
(41:03):
many of those moments, so howhave you seen the community
remain resilient through allthese ups and downs?
You've been the witness, frombehind that camera, to so many
of those moments.
So how have you seen thecommunity remain resilient
through all these ups and downswe've been talking about?
And is there any moment thatyou photographed that
specifically moved you?
Speaker 7 (41:16):
Yes, I would say that that's absolutely true.
It has been my privilege totake photos of many famous
people.
I was a photographer forPresident Clinton when he came
to town and Hillary when shecame to town and all those sorts
(41:39):
of things.
That's fine, but my mainemphasis has always been on all
of us, all of you in thisaudience, all of you.
Every person is more importantthan these major figures because
(41:59):
you have been there working totry to change what we have been
going through for so long.
Now I can name all those events.
Oh, and I want to mentionJosephine Tishworth, because
several of these, but I'll neverforget that we had a protest
(42:20):
going on down at the Hilton andJosephine, who was in this
pirate wheelchair there she isout protesting because HRC
didn't include transgender intheir program.
So Jerry Seminole and many ofus were down there and that's
very memorable.
But let me tell you the mostmoving and it's very hard to
(42:43):
tell you about this because it'svery personal.
I've shot pictures of Montrealsoftball for 30 years.
The most significant event wasI took pictures of this is
during the AIDS crisis and I hada picture of a young man who
(43:06):
played softball and his partnerasked me if I had a photo of him
so that they could display itat the funeral.
And I said, yes, I think I do.
So I got that picture and Igave it to him.
Got that picture and I gave itto him and then he reported back
(43:28):
that when his mother saw thisshe said that is the most
likeness of my son that I everseen.
So that's the most moving thingI've ever shot.
And many protests.
We had all of the marriageequality protests way back in
the day when Jerry andChristopher and Mark Eggleston
(43:50):
and all of the others wereprotesting and holding events
down in Resurrection MCC Church.
One of them is significant andit's been my privilege to be
there for well.
I used to do between four andfive hundred events per year and
(44:12):
for 30 years.
That indicates that probablyI've shot 12 or 15 thousand
events.
But if you remember, back inthe earlier days was film day
and film was a far different crythan digital that we all have
plus the cell phone that we usemost of the time.
Back in the film days we didn'tshoot as many photos and we had
(44:36):
to be very careful to try tosee if they would turn out all
right.
And this will be a plug for theDalton Dark Photographic
Foundation and this will be aplug for the Dalton Hart
Photographic Foundation.
Because of this.
The foundation was formed sothat these images that were on
film 330,000 images could bedigitized and put on the website
(45:02):
.
And if you go to that websitejust daltonheartcom we've got
about, I guess, 200,000 to300,000 images out there now and
we probably have another700,000 to go, but 330,000 were
filmed.
So you look at that and it's afar cry different.
(45:23):
And thanks to the KellettFoundation, john Kelly was a
major figure in our communitywho was had his archives and had
his foundation, and people likeBrian real and Denise O'Doherty
and a number of others wereable to provide a grant so that
these could be digitized, andfor that I am forever grateful.
(45:45):
And people like Sarah Fernandezand JD and all these other
historians and Sarah and thebanner project, which, if you go
up down the hall, you'll see anumber of people there.
Finally, after how many years,sarah, I Finally agreed to be on
one of the panels.
(46:05):
I kept saying, no, there areother people in this community
that need to be on a panel andthen finally I said okay, Sarah,
go ahead and you'll see all ofthe people up here on all those
panels and I have to give ashout-out to Avery, since she
has been here.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
I want you to know, avery you're a major blessing to
our community.
Thank you for sharing all thosemoments.
Speaker 9 (46:33):
We cannot do this panel about archiving, about our
history, about the things thatwe've done in this community,
and not shout out Monica Robertsthat our trans sisters were
dealing with here in Houston.
She documented every singleperson.
We lost Every single personUntil the day that she passed
away.
Truth Project, normal Anomalyall of these organizations that
(46:58):
are doing work now in the arts,in support in so many different
areas, black, brown, everything,and I'm sorry but we had to do
it.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
So many of us are still drawing strings.
So thank you, that was anarchival intervention.
Thank you for that.
So I want to say this as wemove in to our next session I
want to create some time for usto transition through.
It is clear that we stand onthe shoulders of giants, and so
(47:33):
I hope, as we have thisconversation today, that we
carry our ancestors with us,whether they are in this room
with us or they are no longer inthis room with us, and draw
strength from them to know thatthey are gathered this room with
us or they are no longer inthis room with us, and draw
strength from them to know theyare gathered around.
I'm a very spiritual person.
They're happy that we're heretoday and we're doing this in
community right, that we'rehaving queer joy today, and we
(47:56):
will do that across this day.
Thank you all so much for beinghere and thank you to our
panelists.
Thank you so much for yourwords of wisdom.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
I'm Davis Mendoza de Ruzman.
Last month in fabulous LasVegas, nevada, the National
LGBTQ Task Force held theirannual Creating Change
Conference, and I had theincredible opportunity to attend
and learn so much about queerorganizing all across the
country and meet so manyincredible people.
I'm excited to share some ofthe conversations I had with
(48:26):
folks throughout my time at theconference, starting with this
next interview conducted in theconvention hallways with an
80-year-old self-proclaimedStonewall pioneer and equality
for all activist, judyBowenweiner.
From marching at the firstPride Parade in New York City
following the Stonewall riots toher interactions with
trailblazers Marsha P Johnsonand Sylvia Rivera, judy has been
(48:49):
a lifelong advocate for transrights and inclusion, which is
why I'm grateful that she wasable to stop and speak with me
for an interview on CreatingChange.
I have the distinct pleasure ofspeaking with Judy Bowen-Weiner
, stonewall advocate andtransgender activist now
residing in Las Vegas.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Speaker 10 (49:08):
You're so welcome.
It's good to be here.
It's good to be at any place,at my 81.
Yeah, 81, that's incredible.
Every day is a blessing.
Every day is a blessing.
You have to be positive aboutlife.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
I love that.
Tell me about your historydating back to Stonewall and
even beforehand.
Speaker 10 (49:24):
Well, I grew up down south during the Civil Rights
Movement and I was in a raciallymixed environment.
So basically, I've been aroundprejudice and hate all my life.
Actually, my reason for leavingthe South was because of
violent actions that I witnessed.
So while I was at theUniversity of Tennessee, someone
said said, why don't you cometo New York to visit?
(49:46):
So I said okay.
So I moved to Long Island and Iwas arrested there because I
was in a gay club and I was in abeauty pageant called Queen of
Hearts, you know, I don't evenremember the name of the gay
club, but the police broke outthe windows and they arrested
everybody and they put us all inone big cell.
(50:06):
And after that I went back tothe club where I was arrested
and I met someone from the GayActivist Alliance who was my
lover for a while, philip Rea.
He was an opera singer.
He did Don Giovanni at LincolnCenter, but he said well, you
can live in my apartment in thevillage right across from the
(50:26):
song wall, 16 Christopher Street.
So I moved there.
That's where I went through mycomplete transformation and I
got jobs working in nightclubs.
Everything was owned by Mafiosaduring those days.
So if you looked fairly good,you could get jobs in good clubs
and my place, the first placethat I went to work, was the
(50:47):
Tango Palace and I was a dancer.
And then after that I bought a.
I had an attorney friend.
He said you should get out ofhere because you're going to be
arrested.
I said why?
He says you're working withmobsters and they were nice to
(51:09):
me.
So then I didn't think of themas being evil people.
So, uh, I started living aself-life because the attorney
said you've got to stop lettingpeople know that you're a
transsexual or that you're a sexchange.
That's what.
That was the word they wereusing back then.
So I said okay.
So I opened up this restaurantand then I started publishing a
(51:32):
weekly newspaper, the LongIsland City News, and it was a
nonprofit paper and I raisedmoney so we could send children
away to the beaches and to themountains on weekends with their
parents.
So I did that for 30-some yearsand during that time, because
(51:53):
of my newspaper, I was appointedto a local community board,
community board number two,serving Sunnyside, woodside,
long Island City, queens.
He's at Woodside, long IslandCity, queens, and I was the
first woman and no one knew thatI was a transsexual, but I was
(52:14):
the first woman electedpresident of the Alliance Club
because I like doing communityservice.
That's really basically whatkept my life going, because I
enjoy helping people and, uh, I,since I moved to Vegas, I do a
lot of programs here.
We just finished our sixth yearat Jason Flatt Dr Jason Flatt of
(52:37):
UNLV and other people workingtogether we raised a lot of
money and we buy winter clothingfor people who are homeless,
and so that's basically my life,and my theory about life is, if
you do something good for otherpeople, it comes back to you in
(52:59):
different ways.
And I don't drink alcohol, Idon't smoke or anything like
that, so I try to stay healthy.
I'm only 125 pounds.
I'll be 81 September the 3rdand I work a lot with Jason from
the UNLV.
We do a lot of programs.
Did you want to tell them aboutyourself?
Speaker 6 (53:18):
Yeah, Hi, I'm Dr Jace Flatt.
I work at the University ofNevada, Las Vegas and their
School of Public Health.
I actually met Judy on Facebookprior to moving to Las Vegas.
Before me and my husband movedhere and then I relocated here
and, coincidentally, I live fiveminutes from Judy and we've
become really close friends anddoing a lot for the community.
(53:40):
She actually inspired our studythat's funded by the
Alzheimer's Association.
It's called the StonewallGeneration Study.
Speaker 10 (54:02):
Thank you so much for that About the documentary
that we made for the 50thanniversary of Stonewall.
It's called Stonewall ForeverDocumentary.
I flew to New York and I stayedfour days doing the documentary
for Stonewall for their 50thanniversary, and recently we
(54:23):
went back for the 55th Las VegasPride but the Stonewall for
their 50th anniversary.
And recently we went back forthe 55th Las Vegas Pride but the
Stonewall documentary.
Everyone's got to watch this.
You'll see basically how wewere treated during the raids
and everything.
Stonewallforeverorg documentary.
It's about 15 minutes long butwe were only safe in certain
(54:45):
areas in New York, like the WestVillage was considered a safe
zone and I knew Marsha andSylvia.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
Tell me how you met them and your work with them.
Speaker 10 (54:57):
Well, I was at 16 Christopher Street and Marsha
was.
She lived down the blockssomeplace but she had three or
four different places that shelived.
But Marshall was like apermanent fixture on Christopher
Street and she was murdered in1992.
And I found out from publicrecords that she had been hit in
(55:18):
the back of the head and Marthawas like one year younger than
me, so she was about the sameage, and I knew that she didn't
go swimming because we oftentalked about going down to the
docks but she didn't swim andshe was murdered.
But during those days a lot oftrans people even now a lot of
(55:44):
trans people, are murderedbecause people really don't like
something they don't understandand basically a lot of trans
people who are black or Spanishget murdered because of racism.
Racism in this country isreally bad but people just don't
always recognize it.
(56:04):
But our gay community is underattack because we're different.
Speaker 1 (56:11):
This has been Queer Voices, heard on KPFT Houston
and as a podcast available fromseveral podcasting sources.
Check our webpage sources.
Check our webpageQueerVoicesorg for more
information.
Queer Voices executive produceris Brian Levinka.
(56:31):
Debra Moncrief-Bell isco-producer, brett Cullum and
David Mendoza-Druzman arecontributors and Brett is also
our webmaster.
The News Wrap segment is partof another podcast called this
Way Out, which is produced inLos Angeles.
Speaker 11 (56:49):
Some of the material in this program has been edited
to improve clarity and runtime.
This program does not endorseany political views or animal
species.
Views, opinions andendorsements are those of the
participants and theorganizations they represent.
In case of death, pleasediscontinue use and discard
remaining products.
Speaker 1 (57:01):
For Queer Voices.
I'm Glenn Holt, Thank you.
Hello everybody, this is Queer Voices, a podcast
version of a broadcast radioshow that's been on the air in
Houston, texas, for severaldecades.
On January 11th, 17Houston-based organizations
serving the LGBT plus communitycame together to host a summit
at the Montrose Center.
(00:21):
There were several speakers,sessions and workshops, and our
own, davis Mendoza-Duruzman, wasthere and brings us this report
from the plenary session.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm Davis Mendoza-Duruzman.
This summit was home to severalsessions and workshops around
community safety, legislativeupdates, access to health care
and gender-affirming care andmore, but the day-long event
started with a plenary divinginto Houston's powerful queer
organizing history.
You're about to listen in on asession moderated by the
Montrose Center's CEO, averyBellew, joined by Judge Phyllis
Frye, the first openlytransgender judge appointed in
(00:59):
the United States.
Joyce Gabiola, lgbt HistoryResearch Collections Librarian
at the University of Houston.
Brian Rydell, historian andfaculty member at Rice
University Center for the Studyof Women, gender and Sexuality.
And Dalton DeHart, longtimecommunity photographer and
founder of the Dalton DeHartPhotographic Foundation, known
(01:20):
for documenting Houston's LGBTQplus history through photography
over the past 35 years.
We hope you enjoy thisinspiring conversation.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
So our first conversation that we're wanting
to have today is to take amoment to look back, because
we're not having thisconversation about how we care
for each other.
We're not starting from scratch, right?
We have a lot of reallyimportant history, and so I am
joined here today by somefantastic folks who care for our
(01:51):
history, who have been a partof our history, who have lots of
really interesting things toshare with us that I hope will
help us to think about our pathforward.
So why don't we start with eachof you introducing yourselves
I'm going to pass the mic downhere and then you will have a
mic on that end so kind of namepronoun and who you are in
(02:11):
community and what you do.
Judge Phyllis Frye, would youlike to introduce yourself to
the room for folks who don'tknow you?
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Good morning all.
My name is Phyllis Frye and mypronouns are judge and your
honor, frye, and my pronouns arejudge and your honor.
I would be remiss, we would allbe remiss, if, at the very
beginning of this historysession, we did not mention the
names of Ray Hill, oki Anderson,rita Wanstrom, gary Van
(02:45):
Ottingham, marian Coleman, steveShifflett and others.
Those especially and I inviteyou sometime today, if you have
not, to go down that hall whereall the banners are that's where
(03:05):
you're going to learn about ourhistory.
I am one of your history makersand I can tell you about that
as we go on, but this was justfor introduction, so I'm going
to pass it on.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
Good morning everyone .
Oh my gosh, I'm sitting next toJudge Fulis-Garay.
My name is Grace Gabiola and mypronouns are they them.
I work at the University ofHouston Libraries as the
archivist for the LGBTQ HistoryResearch Collection.
I'm not sure if I have impactedhistory Someone said you know
(03:44):
what Joyce needs to be invited,so thank you to whomever did
that.
I'm very happy and honored tobe in this room with all of you,
and especially on this panel.
Good morning everybody.
My name is Brian.
Speaker 8 (03:58):
Riedel, my pronouns are he and him.
I have the honor of working atthe Center for the Study of
Women, Gender and Sexuality atRice University, through which
I've gotten to know a great manyof you who have given your
moral histories to preserve ourcommunity's history, about which
we might hear more later andI'm delighted to be in this
honorable environment.
Speaker 7 (04:19):
My name is Dalton DeHart and I suppose most of you
have seen my face, at leastyou've seen my camera.
But I'm looking around the roomand there are very few people
here that I see that I have notactually taken photos over the
years.
But let me assure you mybackground is more.
I taught school for over 35years.
(04:40):
That was really my career.
But then I started takingphotos in the community 35 years
ago and I was just going to doit kind of as a hobby, but it
seemed like, as they say,something happened and I decided
that maybe I should continue todo this.
So I've done it now for 35years and I love you very much
(05:01):
and I love all of you and I knowall these people on the panel
and they're fabulous.
I think my contribution mightbe in the realm of Fogos through
the history, through the years.
What do you want to talk aboutin a little while?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Okay, so we'll go to our first question, and this is
one that I will ask each of youto answer.
So we'll start.
We can just go down the line ifyou like.
So, as we've already said, thissummit was born out of the need
for our community to regroupahead of the incoming
administration.
Many of us are having fear andanxiety about what's going to
come across the next four years.
(05:34):
However, one of the thingsthat's really beautiful again
we're not starting from scratchis that Houston has a really
rich and unique LGBTQ plushistory, and we've already
talked about that's displayingthe banner project.
If you've not seen, I encourageyou to do that here on the
first floor.
For decades, we've ralliedtogether to make change, to take
(05:56):
care of our own.
We've done things like fightthe cross-dressing ordinance
that existed.
We've challenged Texas sodomylaw.
That's one of the things thatthis community and Houston did.
We protested Anita Bryant, whorecently passed away we're still
here, by the way.
We've campaigned for theHouston equal rights ordinance,
(06:20):
which we still do not have.
We hold town meeting one, andso on and so forth.
So I would ask this For each ofyou what's one landmark event
that shaped our local movement?
If you're thinking about allthese things, what's one
landmark event that you wouldname and how do you think that
shifted the Houston politicallandscape or lay the groundwork
(06:41):
for further work?
I'm going to go first.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Oh Well, I'm going to stand up.
Cross-dressing ordinance andthe Houston police.
I know many of you arerelatively new to all this and
you do have fears.
Well, let me tell you what thefears were back in 1976.
(07:10):
Because at that time theHouston police were raiding the
gay bars.
They were raiding the lesbianbars.
They were arresting anybodythat they could.
I knew of several.
Anybody that they could.
I knew of several, as I becamean attorney later on, people
that I represented who werearrested standing in their front
(07:31):
yard because the police thoughtthey were soliciting and that's
why they were in someone'sfront yard.
They were in their own damnfront yard.
We also had an ordinance thatsaid that if you dressed in
clothing that was opposite toyour sex you could be arrested,
(07:52):
and many were Many were.
The police would go into thelesbian bars and I've been told
this by several good friends ofmine that when the word got into
the bar that the police wereabout to enter the bar, that
those women who were wearingpants that zipped up the front,
(08:13):
they were subject to beingarrested for wearing men's
clothing, and so they wouldimmediately unzip, hit the floor
, their friends would pull theirpants off, they would stand up,
put their pants on backwardsand have them zipped up the back
.
That's the stupidity that wasgoing on to keep from being
(08:35):
arrested.
And in the gay bars, if youwere an entertainer, that was
fine as long as you stayed onstage or backstage.
If you came into the group, youwere subject to being arrested.
And so in 1976, when I came outfull time I was 28 years old at
(08:57):
the time, scared out of my wits,and my wife Trish and my wife
Trish we were married for 48years before she passed she and
I were both scared that everyday I went out looking for a job
or petitioning against theordinance, that I could be
(09:19):
arrested.
And I did petition against theordinance.
There is no reason why today,in 2025, you cannot do the same
thing that I did.
Get off your butt and go andmeet your legislators, who will
(09:40):
be sitting in Austin.
It doesn't matter whether theyare Democrats or Republicans.
They need to meet you as anindividual.
You have to make yourself intoan individual.
You have to do that.
(10:01):
We did that back then and that'show I got the ordinance changed
.
Yes, I got the ordinancechanged.
The ordinance changed.
Yes, I got the ordinancechanged.
Four years of lobbying citycouncil members for that to
happen.
In the 90s many of us went toAustin every other year and we
would lobby members of thelegislature and we had many
(10:26):
friends and we educated a lot ofunfriends.
But you've got to get over thisand remember that there were
people before you, like myself,who did some scary stuff back
then.
So get over it and do what youhave to do.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
For this question.
I thought about events that maybe lesser known but have had an
impact on our movement in someway, the seemingly smaller
things that happened, or thepeople who are public figures or
(11:10):
super activists.
I would say that one of thethings is the creation of local
community publications andbroadcast media.
Local community publicationsand broadcast media that
certainly has had an impact onour local movement for equality,
and part of the impact here isvisibility and connection.
(11:36):
Local LGBTQ media has given usopportunities to connect with
others and to be informed ofwhat's happening in our
community and in part throughtheir efforts we know that the
community exists beyond ourimmediate surroundings.
(11:57):
So you know we're familiar withcurrent community publications
that are in print, but there aremuch more like earlier
publications that I learnedabout from the archives, such as
this Week in Texas, montroseVoice and all of its other names
, and lesser-known independentHouston-based publications such
(12:20):
as Asulao, which apparently wasa publication but also a
community space for women incrisis in the 1980s.
But also the radio programAfter Hours certainly had an
impact, especially for folks whowere not quite out.
(12:43):
Who were not quite out and theytuned into the broadcast in
secret, literally from theirclosets, and it gave the
community a means to connect, toknow that we're not alone and
to know that the communityexists and our existence is
(13:10):
resistance.
So, um, and I was thinking aboutthat, because I'm supposed to
create a large exhibition laterthis year and I was talking to
the library administration aboutwhat that would look like, and
so I was thinking about powerand resistance and joy, and I'm
(13:32):
telling our associate dean that,you know, existence, just our
existence, is resistance, thatis joy, and so just it was.
It's all about power, the powerof media to have an impact, and
(13:53):
I'll mention that I know allabout this because folks in our
community preserved materialsthat document this history,
materials that document thishistory.
So what has also had an impacton the efforts of local
historians?
What has also had an impact arethe efforts of local historians
JD Doyle of Gulf Coast Archiveand Museum, now a part of Lover
(14:21):
Foundation, larry Crescioni ofBot's Collection, brandon Wolfe
and so many community memberswho generously donated their
collections.
That is a plug to preserve yourown histories.
Thank you.
Speaker 8 (14:39):
Thank you, joyce, and I'm going to tell you now what
some of us have been able to dowith the things that Joyce was
just talking about.
Everybody knows about Stonewall, right?
Yes, how many people are awareof an organization called the
Gay Liberation Front?
Raise your hands high so youcan see each other.
How many of you know that therewas a chapter of the Gay
(14:59):
Liberation Front in Houston?
Look what just happened.
Front in Houston.
Look what just happened.
The history that JD Doyle'swebsites have preserved, that
historians in our community havepreserved, that publications
like Outsmart continue topreserve and that archivists
like Joyce make available forthe rest of us, not just in the
digital form that we can all loginto online, but go into the
(15:23):
sacred space of an archive andlook at it as a print object
from the year I was born, 1971.
I can't tell you the feeling toknow that my community was
there doing this right.
That means something to me.
So we're standing today in acommunity center that I think we
might take for granted theMontreux Center.
(15:44):
Thank you for hosting us.
Did you know that the firstcommunity center in Houston was
created by the Houston GayLiberation Fund?
It still stands today If you goto breakfast at Barnum's on
Fairview.
Go a little bit further down thestreet and see the house with
the witch's hat.
That's 504 Fairview.
(16:05):
Go a little bit further downthe street and you'll see the
house with the witch's hat.
That's 504 Fairview.
That's the address of theMontrose Gaze G-A-Z-E.
You can see pictures of it inthat 1971 newspaper, but you can
also read about it on JDDoyle's website.
I'd like to tell you a smalltaste of the people who made
(16:29):
that happen.
The Houston Gay LiberationFront got a reputation for being
too radical in the 80s andthat's the history that I was
given when I first got here in1997.
I was like oh well, radicalsSounds like my people, and so I
started learning about them, andit turns out that the first
thing I learned about them isthat they picketed a gay bar for
(16:50):
not allowing black patrons.
They were anti-racists reallyearly on.
As I dug in more, I learnedthat they also picketed the Rice
Hotel where Playboy wasrecruiting bunnies because they
thought it was sexist.
I also learned that they had,early on, a women's caucus.
(17:11):
I also learned that they had achapter at the University of
Houston, one of the onlyuniversity recognized student
organizations of the GayLiberation Front in the United
States.
They knew that youth mattered,they knew that women mattered,
they knew that people of colormattered, and they knew it in
the 70s.
And they made a communitycenter where there was no
(17:33):
alcohol because they knew thatthe bars were toxic for some of
us, even though that was theonly place that many of us could
find each other.
They created the solutions thatwe are still building on today,
and so I give you the GayLiberation Front as a model for
thinking about coalition, across-difference for common good
, and I can't think of a betterway of describing what we're
(17:55):
going to do.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Thanks.
I want to make sure, joyce, butwe don't leave your point about
media because I want to makesure folks see Greg's going to
hate me for this, but Greg Ju isstanding there in the back of
the room, started OutsmartMagazine and is never taking
that for granted.
Speaker 7 (18:14):
When I look back over the last 35 years probably in
1991, when Paul Broussard wasmurdered behind heaven at that
time, which is now South Beachthat was probably a major
turning point in our historybecause after a while because,
as you know, he lay there for anumber of hours before the
(18:38):
ambulance would even arrive andit was only a three-mile ride to
St Joseph's Hospital but ittook 40 minutes to get there
because they didn't want to haveanything to do with anybody
that might have AIDS or wastoxic.
So at that time it was a verysad day, but all of the people
(19:05):
At that time it was a very sadday, but all of the people and
Andrew Edmondson is one of themajor ones who wrote about this
and talked about it, and thatwas, I think, a major turning
point in our community and tothis day we remember what a sad
sacrifice that was.
(19:29):
And finally, after a long while,after the uprising, the people
who did it, the 10 people fromthe woodlands, 17 years old and
that sort of thing, who camePaul thought was just wanting
directions, but then they jumpedout and of course beat him with
a two-by-four with nails in it,and that, I think, was their
turning point.
And the second one I want tojust mention is when Denise
Parker was finally elected tooffice.
I've taken photos of her atmany rallies and of course she
was an activist at RiceUniversity even when she was
(19:52):
there.
And then when she finally gotelected after running several
times, elected after runningseveral times I had the honor of
going to Mossbock Energy, whichat that time was under lock and
key, but I managed to get up tothe office and she reared back
in the chair and put her feet onthe desk and then the voice
(20:15):
reported finally and she hadthat hanging in her office for a
long while.
So Anise is one of the majorfigures in our history because
even as mayor, but before thatshe was really active.
So I would say those two arethe things that we probably want
to remember for a long time tocome and continue to build on
(20:37):
that.
And, of course, if you look outhere, I look around here, and I
see JD and I see Jack and I seeSarah Fernandez and everybody,
all of you have been a majorfigure in the life of this
community, and the people atthis table, of course, have as
well.
All I've done is just takenphotos of people doing all of
(20:58):
these things, and Jerry, jerrySeminoe, as a matter of fact, I
first declined to be on thispanel because I didn't think I
really had much to add to it,because all I did was take
photos.
And then, thanks to people likeJudge Seminoe and others, they
said well, I think you probablyshould tell about some of the
wonderful things that we didrather than all the horror
(21:18):
stories.
So we had many, many wonderful,wonderful events and as we go
through this panel, I'll mentiona couple, three or four dozen
of those maybe.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Thank you so much A few things I want to say before
we go on to the next questionthat I'm kind of hearing.
First of all, I want to saythat Mayor Denise Parker sends
her love to us today.
She could not be with us she'son vacation, otherwise she would
be here and she would befacilitating this panel, which
she was invited to do.
One of the things that we allknow to be true is that the
(21:52):
history that some of you haveshared up and down these tables,
we do not learn this in schoolI know I did not, and we
certainly are not now becausethere's an attack on our
inclusion education, and I wantto know what that does to a
community.
When you are, history is notrepresented, and so we have to
(22:17):
re-educate, or just educate,every new generation of our
community about our history, andso many of us in this room
probably don't know this history, and that's not our fault.
It's because we were not taughtabout our ancestors, which we
should have been where we wentto school, and so it is our
(22:39):
responsibility as our communityto provide that education which
will help us to envision ourfuture.
So that's one thing I'm hearingas I hear all of you speak.
So, judge Fry, I'm going to goback to you with this question
just for you.
You've talked a little bitabout the cross-dressing
ordinance as one particular,very important moment, and I
love how you highlighted that itdidn't just impact transgender
(23:01):
people, but it impacted ourentire community, right?
So we think that we think transfolks it wasn't just about
trans folks, right?
So I love how you highlightedthat.
We do know, going into this nextfour year administration, trans
people are being very,particularly scapegoated.
They've become the kind ofspecial scapegoat in this
(23:22):
particular moment.
That's not particularly new,but it feels more intense in
this moment and that has manytrans Texans particularly afraid
.
We're also going into a Texaslegislative session.
We know we love that everycouple years.
So how would you say the transequality movement has evolved
locally and what would you sayto trans Texans?
(23:43):
You've already given us alittle bit of your wisdom.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
But given our current political climate, Well, you
need to remember that back in 76, the trans community was not
deemed a part of the gaycommunity.
In fact, many of us had tofight for decades before the gay
(24:07):
community, then the lesbian andgay community, then the lesbian
, gay and bisexual community.
Finally, finally, in 2000, well, nationally, 2008, locally,
around the late 90s includedtrans to make us the LGBT
(24:31):
community.
But we were on our own,fighting constantly with the gay
political caucus, actually, andthen the LGB political caucus
for recognition.
It got so bad that one night ata meeting, I just quit.
(24:55):
I resigned publicly from thecaucus and I didn't rejoin the
caucus until Clarence Bagby wasour president of the caucus and
he made sure that trans werecaucus as far as nationally,
(25:23):
because trans were not included.
By that time, I had gone to the79 March on Washington and I'd
gone to the 86 March onWashington and I'd gone to what?
Speaker 9 (25:41):
86 March on Washington.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
And I'd gone do what?
87.
I'm sorry, okay, it was there,thank you.
Yes, it was.
We were not included.
And nationally, I became anational figure.
Thanks to the internet.
I would get all kinds ofarticles from different LG
(26:11):
organizations around the countryand trans were not included.
Concluded, and so, finally,after my fight with the local
caucus in around 89 or 90, Iformed what was called the
International Conference onTransgender Law and Employment
(26:32):
Policy.
And as you were talking aboutour archives, you need to go
into the archives because allfive volumes of the proceedings
from those caucuses, thoseconferences, are there.
And I began on the Internet whatwas called the filibuster, and
(26:57):
I had a very large outreach andI was just blasting people right
and left about trans inclusion.
And finally, and our biggestopponent was the HRC Human
Rights Campaign.
They were our biggest opponent.
(27:18):
They were our biggest opponent.
And sometime in the 90s I don'tremember the year, but there
was a bill in the United StatesCongress to be inclusive in
employment.
It was the EmploymentNon-Discrimination Act.
It didn't pass, but we couldnot get trans into that act
(27:44):
because of HRC and othernational gay and lesbian and bi
organizations.
When 2008 rolled around, we hadeducated enough organizations
that when the EmploymentNon-Discrimination Act was
(28:07):
reintroduced, again withouttrans, I raised such a stake
again on the filibuster.
And there were so many otherpeople around the country trans
people who were active, lesbian,gay and bisexual people who
were inclusive and otherorganizations that had become
(28:29):
inclusive that they all unitedand told HRC that they were not
going to support the Employmentand Non-Discrimination Act
unless trans was included.
And that was the moment, 2008,when trans finally became
(28:51):
officially part of the community.
The EmploymentNon-Discrimination Act once
again did not pass.
It wouldn't have passed anyway,but we were included and we've
been included ever since andit's nice to be part of the
family instead of outside of thefamily.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
We'll add to that.
How many of you have heard orseen in our movement folks who
have removed the T from the G L,v?
How many of you have seen thatRight?
So I would just highlight thatthis conversation is not over,
even within our own community,and I would just offer the
(29:32):
caution that sometimes, when onepart of our community comes
under attack specifically andbecomes scapegoated, one of the
things that some of us can do tomake ourselves feel more safe
is to distance ourselves fromthat part of our community and
make sure everyone knows howwe're different than that part
of our community.
So we're okay.
But that does not keep any ofus truly safe.
(29:56):
So the way that we're all goingto be safe is to insist that we
are together, that we areunited and that we leave
absolutely no one behind andthat we resist even those
conversations within our ownmovement to exclude trans folks
from our broader community.
So now just to pivot a littlebit.
(30:20):
This next question is both foryou, joyce, and Brian, as
stewards of our history andcaretakers of our history.
I know that both of you bringan intersectional perspective to
this panel through your work.
But, joyce, you've named thethings that you do, and also
your identities as queer andFilipino American, and so
(30:41):
sometimes folks get left out ofour telling and our retelling.
One of my mentors likes to saythat when that happens, we have
to do what's called an archivalintervention intervene into the
archive to say who is being leftout of this conversation and in
our storytelling, and I thinkthat's important to lift up
(31:01):
because that continues to impactus today.
So can you both talk about whyit's paramount to center
intersectionality within theLGBTQ plus movement, and are
there any events in our localLGBTQ plus history that you feel
like really exemplified thatdedication to intersectionality?
You've already named some ofthem, but I that dedication to
intersectionality.
You've already named some ofthem, but I'm excited to hear
(31:22):
more.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
Yeah, I was just about to say that Brian pretty
much named some events thathappened at the Liberation Front
regarding intersectionality.
So in general, I just want tosay that centering
intersectionality helps us toalways be aware of the power
(31:48):
dynamics in any given room andit helps us understand that
folks in the community are notmonoliths.
We don't use our money for thesame causes, we don't vote the
same way and we navigate theworld differently because of our
(32:08):
multiple, marginalizedidentities, our experiences, how
formed our present world feels.
And it forcesality, it forces usto acknowledge our own power
and privilege so that we can usethat power for good and to
(32:33):
advocate for others, which Briantalked about earlier on the
panel.
So, and what Avery just touchedon, it helps us to be careful
not to be exclusionary, and thismatters, as we know, when the
(32:56):
community fights for our rights,when the community fights for
our rights, I guess some of whatexemplifies intersectionality.
Again, brian mentioned it, butI'll also say that you know the
creation of so many communityorganizations, because they
create a community and communitybrings empowerment.
(33:21):
Again, it helps folks not tofeel lonely.
That's major, because for me,growing up in Southwest Houston,
you know, was there anyonearound me who was like me?
Were there teachers, myclassmates, my relatives.
(33:44):
Am I really all alone?
And so later on, when I attendedthe University of Houston and I
discovered Global exists, thenthings started to change.
I came out when I was a studentat UH.
I held hands with my firstgirlfriend across campus and at
(34:11):
the time I was still very much.
I was part of the FilipinoStudents Association, but I was
also part of a sorority, yep,yep.
And it was just so powerful tocome out to my sorority sisters
and eventually to my sisters andmy parents, although when I
(34:35):
came out to my parents, ithappened because of a breakup
and it didn't make me feelbetter, but I was fine.
Actually, she, the person whobroke up with me, is actually my
best friend.
She's a chef in Boston, but Icame back to Texas after living
(35:04):
in Boston, los Angeles, sanDiego because of this job which,
miraculously, was createdbecause of some of y'all in this
room, dr Maria Gonzalez, I'msuch a fan of the archives,
thank you.
It came at a very good timebecause my partner and I have a
(35:31):
five-year-old and when we werestill living in San Diego he was
two and we felt compelled tomove back to Texas because we
wanted him to grow up around ourparents, our siblings, our
longtime friends.
And so, miraculously, this jobexisted.
(35:51):
It was out there and, oh my god, I thought I didn't get it
because I didn't hear from themfor a while, but I missed the
voicemail message.
Speaker 7 (36:04):
That's why that's my fault.
Speaker 5 (36:07):
I get to do this for a living Every single day.
I get to be in community withBrian and Dalton and Judge Fry
and all of y' all out there.
So, personally, coming from aCatholic Filipino household in
Southwest Houston to thisspeaking here today, oh my God
(36:32):
y'all.
And I will say that one of thereasons why that inspired me was
the work that Arden Eberslayer,that she did with well, I mean
(36:53):
really with the lesbians overthe age of 50 and With the oral
history project, the oldlesbians oral history project.
I interviewed her for Outsmart,actually in 2010.
Thank you, greg, for thatopportunity, and so I
(37:13):
interviewed her, and because ofthat experience, I thought this
is something that I need to be apart of.
I need to help preserve thishistory, our history, and so
that's why I'm here today.
I think I got off topic.
I'm so sorry.
I also want to say, greg, thatwhen I was in college, I saw
(37:36):
that Outsmart existed and waslike this was amazing.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Thank you.
So same question to you, Brian,about why it's paramount to
center intersectionality.
Speaker 8 (37:48):
Thank you.
So y'all will forgive me.
I'm a teacher, I can't help it.
It's a word that came out ofthe academy and out of legal
circles, that has been used in alot of places, and I wager that
some of us have different ideasabout what it means.
Do I feel the truth in the room?
Okay, have you ever been askedby someone to define what
(38:10):
intersectionality means?
How have you felt?
Okay, so here's your basicprimer.
Intersectionality is the theorythat my experience as a gay man
is not the same as Dalton'sbecause we're of different ages.
My experience as a queer personis different from Kevin
Anderson's because we experienceour race and sexuality at the
(38:33):
same time.
We cannot compare ourexperiences of queerness
directly because of thedifferent ways that we
experience it.
It came out of the courtroomsbecause black women were getting
different results from courtcases when they were testifying
that they were raped than whitewomen.
Kimberly Crenshaw should becredited with that, so carry
(38:55):
that as your pocket definitionfor why intersectionality
matters.
We all have shared experiencesof life from different
perspectives, and I cannotpresume that my solution to
solving my queer problems willmatch your solution to solving
your queer problems if we don'tstart there.
Okay.
(39:15):
So with that out of the way aplug.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
Thank you professor.
Speaker 8 (39:23):
High praise coming from you.
And now I do want to say onemore thing.
Earlier you raised why takingthe T out is a problem.
I want to tell you why that's aproblem, using the
intersectionality analysis,because this is how I respond to
it.
When people say they want to dothat as a political move, the
belief that it makes it safer isbased on the misperception.
(39:46):
The misperception is that mygayness is not gendered in other
people's eyes.
The misperception is that I'mjust like.
You will save me because mysexual activity is not seen as
gender deviant.
Think about that for a minute.
If I don't look gender deviant,I might believe right, I'm
(40:10):
using other people's language,not my own, right.
I might believe that I can besafe.
And the minute that I do that,the minute I say half a loaf is
better than no loaf at all, I'veactually cut out my own feet
from underneath me.
Because then what happens next?
I'm on the plate Because my sexlife makes me look different in
(40:30):
a gendered lens.
Do not buy the poison.
Do not swallow it.
Reject it.
Help others reject it.
That's why intersectionalitymatters.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Thank you, dalton, this next question is for you.
You talked about your role witha great deal of humility, I
must say, in documenting all ofour moments, our important
moments of activism, but alsoimportant moments of joy and
celebration, which is soimportant.
So, and you've been the witness, from behind that camera, to so
(41:03):
many of those moments, so howhave you seen the community
remain resilient through allthese ups and downs?
You've been the witness, frombehind that camera, to so many
of those moments.
So how have you seen thecommunity remain resilient
through all these ups and downswe've been talking about?
And is there any moment thatyou photographed that
specifically moved you?
Speaker 7 (41:16):
Yes, I would say that that's absolutely true.
It has been my privilege totake photos of many famous
people.
I was a photographer forPresident Clinton when he came
to town and Hillary when shecame to town and all those sorts
(41:39):
of things.
That's fine, but my mainemphasis has always been on all
of us, all of you in thisaudience, all of you.
Every person is more importantthan these major figures because
(41:59):
you have been there working totry to change what we have been
going through for so long.
Now I can name all those events.
Oh, and I want to mentionJosephine Tishworth, because
several of these, but I'll neverforget that we had a protest
(42:20):
going on down at the Hilton andJosephine, who was in this
pirate wheelchair there she isout protesting because HRC
didn't include transgender intheir program.
So Jerry Seminole and many ofus were down there and that's
very memorable.
But let me tell you the mostmoving and it's very hard to
(42:43):
tell you about this because it'svery personal.
I've shot pictures of Montrealsoftball for 30 years.
The most significant event wasI took pictures of this is
during the AIDS crisis and I hada picture of a young man who
(43:06):
played softball and his partnerasked me if I had a photo of him
so that they could display itat the funeral.
And I said, yes, I think I do.
So I got that picture and Igave it to him.
Got that picture and I gave itto him and then he reported back
(43:28):
that when his mother saw thisshe said that is the most
likeness of my son that I everseen.
So that's the most moving thingI've ever shot.
And many protests.
We had all of the marriageequality protests way back in
the day when Jerry andChristopher and Mark Eggleston
(43:50):
and all of the others wereprotesting and holding events
down in Resurrection MCC Church.
One of them is significant andit's been my privilege to be
there for well.
I used to do between four andfive hundred events per year and
(44:12):
for 30 years.
That indicates that probablyI've shot 12 or 15 thousand
events.
But if you remember, back inthe earlier days was film day
and film was a far different crythan digital that we all have
plus the cell phone that we usemost of the time.
Back in the film days we didn'tshoot as many photos and we had
(44:36):
to be very careful to try tosee if they would turn out all
right.
And this will be a plug for theDalton Dark Photographic
Foundation and this will be aplug for the Dalton Hart
Photographic Foundation.
Because of this.
The foundation was formed sothat these images that were on
film 330,000 images could bedigitized and put on the website
(45:02):
.
And if you go to that websitejust daltonheartcom we've got
about, I guess, 200,000 to300,000 images out there now and
we probably have another700,000 to go, but 330,000 were
filmed.
So you look at that and it's afar cry different.
(45:23):
And thanks to the KellettFoundation, john Kelly was a
major figure in our communitywho was had his archives and had
his foundation, and people likeBrian real and Denise O'Doherty
and a number of others wereable to provide a grant so that
these could be digitized, andfor that I am forever grateful.
(45:45):
And people like Sarah Fernandezand JD and all these other
historians and Sarah and thebanner project, which, if you go
up down the hall, you'll see anumber of people there.
Finally, after how many years,sarah, I Finally agreed to be on
one of the panels.
(46:05):
I kept saying, no, there areother people in this community
that need to be on a panel andthen finally I said okay, Sarah,
go ahead and you'll see all ofthe people up here on all those
panels and I have to give ashout-out to Avery, since she
has been here.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
I want you to know, avery you're a major blessing to
our community.
Thank you for sharing all thosemoments.
Speaker 9 (46:33):
We cannot do this panel about archiving, about our
history, about the things thatwe've done in this community,
and not shout out Monica Robertsthat our trans sisters were
dealing with here in Houston.
She documented every singleperson.
We lost Every single personUntil the day that she passed
away.
Truth Project, normal Anomalyall of these organizations that
(46:58):
are doing work now in the arts,in support in so many different
areas, black, brown, everything,and I'm sorry but we had to do
it.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
So many of us are still drawing strings.
So thank you, that was anarchival intervention.
Thank you for that.
So I want to say this as wemove in to our next session I
want to create some time for usto transition through.
It is clear that we stand onthe shoulders of giants, and so
(47:33):
I hope, as we have thisconversation today, that we
carry our ancestors with us,whether they are in this room
with us or they are no longer inthis room with us, and draw
strength from them to know thatthey are gathered this room with
us or they are no longer inthis room with us, and draw
strength from them to know theyare gathered around.
I'm a very spiritual person.
They're happy that we're heretoday and we're doing this in
community right, that we'rehaving queer joy today, and we
(47:56):
will do that across this day.
Thank you all so much for beinghere and thank you to our
panelists.
Thank you so much for yourwords of wisdom.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
I'm Davis Mendoza de Ruzman.
Last month in fabulous LasVegas, nevada, the National
LGBTQ Task Force held theirannual Creating Change
Conference, and I had theincredible opportunity to attend
and learn so much about queerorganizing all across the
country and meet so manyincredible people.
I'm excited to share some ofthe conversations I had with
(48:26):
folks throughout my time at theconference, starting with this
next interview conducted in theconvention hallways with an
80-year-old self-proclaimedStonewall pioneer and equality
for all activist, judyBowenweiner.
From marching at the firstPride Parade in New York City
following the Stonewall riots toher interactions with
trailblazers Marsha P Johnsonand Sylvia Rivera, judy has been
(48:49):
a lifelong advocate for transrights and inclusion, which is
why I'm grateful that she wasable to stop and speak with me
for an interview on CreatingChange.
I have the distinct pleasure ofspeaking with Judy Bowen-Weiner
, stonewall advocate andtransgender activist now
residing in Las Vegas.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Speaker 10 (49:08):
You're so welcome.
It's good to be here.
It's good to be at any place,at my 81.
Yeah, 81, that's incredible.
Every day is a blessing.
Every day is a blessing.
You have to be positive aboutlife.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
I love that.
Tell me about your historydating back to Stonewall and
even beforehand.
Speaker 10 (49:24):
Well, I grew up down south during the Civil Rights
Movement and I was in a raciallymixed environment.
So basically, I've been aroundprejudice and hate all my life.
Actually, my reason for leavingthe South was because of
violent actions that I witnessed.
So while I was at theUniversity of Tennessee, someone
said said, why don't you cometo New York to visit?
(49:46):
So I said okay.
So I moved to Long Island and Iwas arrested there because I
was in a gay club and I was in abeauty pageant called Queen of
Hearts, you know, I don't evenremember the name of the gay
club, but the police broke outthe windows and they arrested
everybody and they put us all inone big cell.
(50:06):
And after that I went back tothe club where I was arrested
and I met someone from the GayActivist Alliance who was my
lover for a while, philip Rea.
He was an opera singer.
He did Don Giovanni at LincolnCenter, but he said well, you
can live in my apartment in thevillage right across from the
(50:26):
song wall, 16 Christopher Street.
So I moved there.
That's where I went through mycomplete transformation and I
got jobs working in nightclubs.
Everything was owned by Mafiosaduring those days.
So if you looked fairly good,you could get jobs in good clubs
and my place, the first placethat I went to work, was the
(50:47):
Tango Palace and I was a dancer.
And then after that I bought a.
I had an attorney friend.
He said you should get out ofhere because you're going to be
arrested.
I said why?
He says you're working withmobsters and they were nice to
(51:09):
me.
So then I didn't think of themas being evil people.
So, uh, I started living aself-life because the attorney
said you've got to stop lettingpeople know that you're a
transsexual or that you're a sexchange.
That's what.
That was the word they wereusing back then.
So I said okay.
So I opened up this restaurantand then I started publishing a
(51:32):
weekly newspaper, the LongIsland City News, and it was a
nonprofit paper and I raisedmoney so we could send children
away to the beaches and to themountains on weekends with their
parents.
So I did that for 30-some yearsand during that time, because
(51:53):
of my newspaper, I was appointedto a local community board,
community board number two,serving Sunnyside, woodside,
long Island City, queens.
He's at Woodside, long IslandCity, queens, and I was the
first woman and no one knew thatI was a transsexual, but I was
(52:14):
the first woman electedpresident of the Alliance Club
because I like doing communityservice.
That's really basically whatkept my life going, because I
enjoy helping people and, uh, I,since I moved to Vegas, I do a
lot of programs here.
We just finished our sixth yearat Jason Flatt Dr Jason Flatt of
(52:37):
UNLV and other people workingtogether we raised a lot of
money and we buy winter clothingfor people who are homeless,
and so that's basically my life,and my theory about life is, if
you do something good for otherpeople, it comes back to you in
(52:59):
different ways.
And I don't drink alcohol, Idon't smoke or anything like
that, so I try to stay healthy.
I'm only 125 pounds.
I'll be 81 September the 3rdand I work a lot with Jason from
the UNLV.
We do a lot of programs.
Did you want to tell them aboutyourself?
Speaker 6 (53:18):
Yeah, Hi, I'm Dr Jace Flatt.
I work at the University ofNevada, Las Vegas and their
School of Public Health.
I actually met Judy on Facebookprior to moving to Las Vegas.
Before me and my husband movedhere and then I relocated here
and, coincidentally, I live fiveminutes from Judy and we've
become really close friends anddoing a lot for the community.
(53:40):
She actually inspired our studythat's funded by the
Alzheimer's Association.
It's called the StonewallGeneration Study.
Speaker 10 (54:02):
Thank you so much for that About the documentary
that we made for the 50thanniversary of Stonewall.
It's called Stonewall ForeverDocumentary.
I flew to New York and I stayedfour days doing the documentary
for Stonewall for their 50thanniversary, and recently we
(54:23):
went back for the 55th Las VegasPride but the Stonewall for
their 50th anniversary.
And recently we went back forthe 55th Las Vegas Pride but the
Stonewall documentary.
Everyone's got to watch this.
You'll see basically how wewere treated during the raids
and everything.
Stonewallforeverorg documentary.
It's about 15 minutes long butwe were only safe in certain
(54:45):
areas in New York, like the WestVillage was considered a safe
zone and I knew Marsha andSylvia.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
Tell me how you met them and your work with them.
Speaker 10 (54:57):
Well, I was at 16 Christopher Street and Marsha
was.
She lived down the blockssomeplace but she had three or
four different places that shelived.
But Marshall was like apermanent fixture on Christopher
Street and she was murdered in1992.
And I found out from publicrecords that she had been hit in
(55:18):
the back of the head and Marthawas like one year younger than
me, so she was about the sameage, and I knew that she didn't
go swimming because we oftentalked about going down to the
docks but she didn't swim andshe was murdered.
But during those days a lot oftrans people even now a lot of
(55:44):
trans people, are murderedbecause people really don't like
something they don't understandand basically a lot of trans
people who are black or Spanishget murdered because of racism.
Racism in this country isreally bad but people just don't
always recognize it.
(56:04):
But our gay community is underattack because we're different.
Speaker 1 (56:11):
This has been Queer Voices, heard on KPFT Houston
and as a podcast available fromseveral podcasting sources.
Check our webpage sources.
Check our webpageQueerVoicesorg for more
information.
Queer Voices executive produceris Brian Levinka.
(56:31):
Debra Moncrief-Bell isco-producer, brett Cullum and
David Mendoza-Druzman arecontributors and Brett is also
our webmaster.
The News Wrap segment is partof another podcast called this
Way Out, which is produced inLos Angeles.
Speaker 11 (56:49):
Some of the material in this program has been edited
to improve clarity and runtime.
This program does not endorseany political views or animal
species.
Views, opinions andendorsements are those of the
participants and theorganizations they represent.
In case of death, pleasediscontinue use and discard
remaining products.
Speaker 1 (57:01):
For Queer Voices.
I'm Glenn Holt, Thank you.
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