January 30, 2025 • 56 mins
Can understanding human motivations truly transform corporate culture? Join us as we sit with the insightful Christy Claxton, a lesbian musician and writer, who reveals the soul-sucking realities of corporate life and how she managed to maintain her creative spirit amidst it all. Christy shares her journey from being a middle manager for over 30 years to rediscovering her passion for writing after being laid off. Her new book, "Bringing Jesus and Other Lies," offers a candid look at her life experiences, and she shares invaluable lessons on leadership and creativity that challenge the status quo.
In another turn of the episode, we delve into the transformative power of education and storytelling. Inspired by past encounters with influential teachers, we explore narratives that challenge societal perceptions and reflect on the intersection of corporate careers and artistic pursuits. Our discussion includes touching anecdotes from a collection of stories about unlikely friendships, such as a young offender taking his former teacher on a motorcycle adventure. We also ponder the broader implications of personal stories and their resonance with audiences, drawing from experiences that have shaped our creative paths over the years.
Artistic innovation takes center stage as we spotlight Candice D'Meza, a multidisciplinary artist who blends Afrofuturism with unique theatrical productions. From exploring themes of queer futures to challenging identity constructs, Candice's work pushes boundaries and invites audiences to imagine a world where nature and humanity coexist harmoniously. Her latest production, "Miss LaRaj's House of Dystopian Futures," and her other projects highlight the liberating aspects of defying societal norms. We celebrate how artists like Candice and musicians like Lee Harris inspire us to break free creatively and redefine our future narratives.
Be free, people!
Queer Voices airs in Houston Texas on 90.1FM KPFT and is heard as a podcast here. Queer Voices hopes to entertain as well as illuminate LGBTQ issues in Houston and beyond. Check out our socials at:
https://www.facebook.com/QueerVoicesKPFT/ and
https://www.instagram.com/queervoices90.1kpft/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, this is Queer Voices, a podcast
version of a broadcast radioshow that's been on the air in
Houston, texas for severaldecades.
This week, debra Moncrief-Bellhas a conversation with
well-known lesbian musician andwriter, Christy Claxton.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Freeing Jesus.
I wrote that story in themid-90s, so LGBTQ plus was still
even in Austin.
We were ducking under the radarfor our own safety.
That character, her neighbor Iintentionally wrote her to be
sort of just almost in theshadows.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Brett Cullum has a conversation with Candace DeMesa
.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Shadows brett cullum has a conversation with candace
demesa, actor, activist andfilmmaker.
I don't have any formaltraining as far as like
playwriting or things like that.
I think that works in my favorbecause I do feel freer to just,
I guess, do what I want.
But as an actor so I did priorto creating my own projects I
did act all around the city andat the Alley Theater.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
And we have Brett's community calendar.
Queer Voices starts now.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
This is Deborah Moncrief-Bell, and today I'm
talking with Christy Claxtonabout her new book Bringing
Jesus and Other Lies.
First of all, christy, we'veknown each other for a number of
years, and I first knew you asa musician.
In fact, you even played in theKPFT studios.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Many times I did yes, yes, in fact pre-production.
We were reminiscing about thosedays with you and Jimmy Carper,
and Outvoice was always so kindto me as a musician and it's so
much appreciated.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Certainly I enjoyed the music in your piece from the
porch project, which at onetime Christy had a place out in
LaGrange and it was a house thathad this big porch and so the
porch became the stage and shewould have different musicians
come out and she would play andit was quite a special time and
(02:14):
place.
But you've got to make moneyfor the man, and Christy has had
a career that I had not evenrealized that she had been part
of, which was a 30-plus careeras a I guess a middle manager
would be the correct title.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, director, I think that's middle management
in most corporate structuresquarely in the middle.
I worked for about 12 years,squarely in the middle.
I worked for about 12 years.
I worked for a large worldwidepublication or a company that
publishing e-commerce marketingas a director of commerce
(02:56):
operations.
There were things about it Ireally enjoyed, especially the
young people my team I had young.
Most of my team were younger,you know, they could people my
team Most of my team wereyounger.
They could have been my kidsand they kept me refreshed and
feeling optimistic and I lovethem very much.
But at the same time, corporateis you're not there for the
(03:20):
mission, you are there for thestockholder.
It becomes soul-sucking andanyone who believes that they're
there because they as a personreally matter probably need.
This is so terrible, but it'strue.
You probably need to get thatout of your head.
The money's good, the benefitsare great, but you're selling
out for a certain amount of yourlife and I, after I was laid
(03:43):
off along with many of themiddle management structure of
that company, I was told by awoman executive that used to be
with the company you're just anumber in a cell of a
spreadsheet and your number wastoo high has nothing to do or
about you.
It's about your salary.
So you know.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
You know, here I am, and as soon as I was laid off, I
started writing again you saidyou're a writer and a creative
thinker and you spent yourcareer masquerading as an
operational leader, but younever stopped writing your short
stories, essays, blogs andsongs.
What was, uh, your approach, inyour natural state of
(04:27):
creativity, to holding thosepositions and understanding what
motivates people to do thethings they do?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I have a master's degree in creative writing and
for my thesis I wrote a play,and this is I'm actually talking
more about at this point.
Another book that I put outcalled Leadership Challenged a
middle manager memoir.
I've done two one or publishedtwo, shall I say.
But what I had, an instructorwho actually won a Pulitzer that
(05:03):
taught us about premise.
And when you think aboutpremise from a playwriting point
of view, plays are action,they're active.
So that premise is prettysimple.
It's A leads to B and in thecorporate world or in a
leadership role, you're oftenlooking at B and you need to
(05:25):
understand what was A to get youto B.
And if it's a failure, if B issome sort of a failure, what
happened at A that made thatfailure happen?
And if you go back and you lookat people because regardless of
how two-dimensional people aremade to be in a corporation,
they're still human.
(05:46):
So I would use the samefaculties that I used for
writing, especially shortstories like the ones in Freeing
Jesus.
I would use that premise typeapproach to why did this person
act in a way that led to B.
So really A becomes this Y, andif you understand the Y as a
(06:08):
leader, then you have anopportunity to mitigate failure,
to support success and make abetter workspace and bring in
some it's kind of a false sense,but to bring in that sense of
ownership and pride in what aperson does.
And if you can do that, thenthe company is going to benefit,
(06:31):
whether they understand that ornot.
So as a manager, I alwaysthought about A leads to B.
My A is almost always a humanbeing and that human being
there's something motivating.
Why are they behaving in theway they do?
Why have they become negative?
(06:51):
Or why are they burned out?
It could be something as simpleas you've given that person
more work than they can handle,so helping them in that way.
Or it can be that they havesomething going on at home them
in that way, or it can be thatthey have something going on at
home, even though it's not a jobmanager's job to be someone's
personal therapist, that stillaffects the way they perform and
(07:13):
it has to be addressed.
So that's how I did it and Ithink that that's the part of
leadership.
It's really hard.
The most important thing agreat leader can do is listen.
And leaders typically in acorporate structure, especially
in the middle, because you'regetting crushed from the top and
pressured, and then you have aresponsibility to those that you
(07:33):
lead.
It's really easy to stoplistening and start reacting.
So the most important thinganyone can do in a leadership
position is listen, reallylisten, truly listen, and that's
what I, you know took into that12 years of corporate work that
I did.
But you know, when I writefiction, sometimes these stories
(07:57):
are things I've eavesdroppedover, or every one of them
they're lies, but they're basedin a truth that I've observed.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
As I read the book, which I found quite engaging.
It's kind of the SouthernGothic style is in there, and I
know that that's a result ofsome of the writers that you've
admired I could tell where therewere elements of truth in your
(08:28):
real life, but there weredefinitely things like I don't
think you ever were a poledancer Never.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I knew a few.
You know, I rented my house toa stripper when I was touring
with Out of Nowhere and ingraduate school my theater
friends invited me to drink beerat Dudley's Draw at College
Station.
Anyone listening that went toTexas A&M and wasn't a cowboy
knows about Dudley's Draw and Isat with.
(08:53):
Actually she was a porn star,oh my gosh.
And of course I was likeprobably 19 and terrified.
But she was so interesting andso smart and so engaging.
So I think when I like when Iwrote that I was I've never been
a stripper but I've I've knowna few I think more than anything
(09:14):
there it was someone who'scrass, someone who's kind of
owning their own desperationbecause they don't feel that
they have any other options andat the same time are sort of
poking their finger in the eyeof a concept of salvation that
(09:35):
isn't real.
And so I wanted to write thatstory in a way that she is not
really giving herself any reallove or any real respect, but
slowly she grows into a muchmore dimensional person as she
makes a friend with the lesbianthat lives next door.
(09:55):
And I wrote this Freeing Jesus.
I wrote that story in themid-90s, so LGBTQ plus was still
even in Austin.
We were ducking under the radarfor our own safety.
That character, her neighbor.
I intentionally wrote her to besort of just almost in the
(10:18):
shadows, but not sort of likeRacer X is in Speed Racer.
He's just sort of the dark herothat's waiting when you need
her.
But then I also wanted to pointout that the shallow
objectification that created themain character exists within
our own community.
We do it too.
I mean, how many clubs in yourlifetime have you been to that
(10:42):
people are objectifying otherpeople?
Or when they're on dating apps,I mean it's the perfect form of
themselves.
Men or I have this great bodyor the pics of that part of the
body that only they want to see.
And I wanted that to be in thestory that we in our community
(11:02):
can be just as shallow andself-centered in our wants.
And that's why I ended thestory with her feeling very
dissatisfied with what hadhappened and finding that
salvation is really forgivingourselves and leaning in and
accepting maybe the less prettyor the less flashy things in
(11:24):
life, and when we do that wefind our tribe.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
I found a number of the characters were damaged or
had to deal with damaged peopleand I think you are really
speaking to having compassionand kindness in your approach
and certainly they're very Texasstories.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Writing about what I know is the only really honest
way I can write and throughyears working in hospice, when I
was working in hospice,everybody dies, so you see so
many different types of people,from the highs to the
unbelievable lows, and freeingJesus and other lives to me.
(12:13):
First of all I think it comesoff pretty strongly is I am a
massive fan of Flannery O'Connorand as a Southern writer she
was always, always searching forsalvation or searching for a
pain-free emotionally,physically pain-free place and
running up againstdisappointment in trying to find
(12:34):
that Her stories they're brutal.
I mean they're brutal, butO'Connor for those that don't
know had lupus and her lifecould be brutal.
She literally had to go homeand live with her mother and
give up her dreams of New Yorkand being a part of the literati
.
So I really encourage people toread her writings if you have
(12:56):
it, including her letters.
I think it's always in the backof my mind the Peace from the
Porch Project, always in theback of my mind, the Peace from
the Porch project, my writing,my blogging, always in the back
of my mind that we have to takethose blinders off and see
humanity for what it is andaccept it where it's at.
(13:17):
There's so much beauty that'soverlooked by our own sort of
these worlds.
We create our own milieu, ourown sort of environments that we
feel comfortable in our bubbleand we're not coming out of that
.
And that's what when I writeshort stories, that's what
that's about is you can be avictim of circumstance and in
(13:37):
most cases, that's what thesecharacters are.
They're a victim ofcircumstance and then they have
a choice on what to do aboutthat.
And the irony is that I was avictim of really my own
circumstance by working for somany years in corporate America
and not really doing anythingabout that when I could have.
It's just something as shallowfor me as I was making a hell of
(13:59):
a lot of money and I had thesegreat benefits and it gave my
wife and I had these greatbenefits and it gave my wife and
I the good life, but really wasit a good life?
And I think the question ishere is, when you read Freeing
Jesus, are these the good lifeor do these feel like a life
that we're all living?
And it's a choice.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
I think my favorite story is where the young
offender, who's doing communityservice work as part of his
sentencing, kidnaps his formerthird-grade teacher, who's in
the you describe it as an oldfolks' home and takes her on a
(14:37):
motorcycle ride.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yes, yes, and that story I mean.
Society is so down on him andeven though she enjoys this
adventure with him and hisbuddies, he is still looked down
upon.
He's not going to be forgivenfor what he's done because
(15:01):
people have already set theirminds on who he is and that's
all they see is the offender anddon't see the human being
underneath that.
And that was.
I wish I could remember Deb,when I wrote that, why I wanted
to write something like that.
But there must have been somesort of a writing prompt or
(15:22):
something that asked writers towrite a story about their
favorite teacher or something.
And I wanted to write a storyabout the people who we look at
and say there's no way thatperson had a favorite teacher.
It's a wonder they got out ofschool in the first place.
So you know, she was able toaffect him in a positive way,
(15:46):
even though it was late in herlife and he's a full-grown adult
, versus the stories we alwayssee in social media and TV about
the doctor who was poor, whoseteacher didn't realize that
she's the reason he's a doctor,otherwise he would have been
living on the streets, kind ofstory.
Well, what about the rest?
So that's what that story'sabout.
(16:08):
What about everybody else?
Speaker 4 (16:11):
yeah, I think it was an homage to those special
teachers that we many of us atleast I was fortunate to have
that touched our lives andinspired us and were offered a
guidance to where our life wouldgo, and I felt like you must
have had a teacher like that andthat when you wrote this story
(16:34):
it was with that teacher in mind.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Truthfully, I hated school.
I hated it.
Now that doesn't mean I didn'tdo well in school.
I did do well in school.
I graduated fifth in my classand you know I went on to get my
undergraduate and a master'sdegree, which is school, and
even my mother's, like you, loveschool, I love learning.
(16:59):
I hated school.
I hated the structure of it.
And if I think about favoriteteachers hated school.
I hated the structure of it.
And if I think about favoriteteachers, they don't show up
until high school.
And it was an English teacherwho had the backbone in a small
town to introduce us to trueliterature, true storytelling.
(17:21):
You know nothing.
You know things that would bebanned books today.
And if it weren't for her, Idon't know that I would have
ever known who I really was.
I would have just gone throughschool and done the right thing
and become a teacher, which Ikind of wish I had done, but I
didn't.
But that would have been anhonorable profession per my
(17:43):
mother, my grandmothers wereteachers, my aunt is an educator
, or I would have becomesomething like a lawyer for the
money.
And if it weren't for that oneteacher, yeah, I wouldn't be a
writer.
I know that Her name was MrsClark.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
So these were not stories that you sat down and
wrote and that became the book.
These are stories that havecome to you and that you've
written over the course of 30years.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yes, yes, exactly when those stories come through.
You know well.
Let me say that probably thecorporate career stifled my
writing.
But yes, these are over thecourse of 30 years.
The first story 1968, I wrote ingraduate school it was part of
(18:35):
a class, so that would have beenin the 1990, maybe 91, that I
wrote.
That one Freeing Jesus waswritten in the mid-90s and then
many of what I called theparables were written maybe 15
years ago when I was still atBear Creek and I was doing some
(18:57):
freelancing and there wereoftentimes prompts would come
through for just content and Iwould write a story and I took
it seriously and I would write ashort story.
So they sat around and I hadwanted to publish this many
years ago and then just nevergot to it because the energy
wasn't there from the day jobsucking it away.
(19:19):
And once I published LeadershipChallenge, the middle
management memoir, which I didwrite after being laid off, I
thought about that collection ofstories and I'm like I know how
to do it.
It's done.
Why not go ahead and publishthat as well?
So I did, I put that out as welland honestly, it's probably the
(19:40):
one people prefer or like themost.
I think they're intimidated byLeadership Challenged.
They think it's a business bookand I'm just here to say it is
not.
It is.
I would call it a corporatecoming-of-age story.
It's a memoir.
So it's not business-y at all.
But here I am two books andcurrently working on another.
(20:01):
I'm not sure if it's going tobe a short story or a novel.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
I will tell you that as I was reading and I don't
want to say the stories weren'tcomplete, because they were, but
they also were intriguing in away that I wanted to know more I
was like imagining whathappened next for these people
and what the reactions to themmight have been when you think
(20:30):
about our own narrow littlelives in the world.
And then to imagine it was justfood for thought, which is my
favorite food.
Uh and uh.
It also was a great read for awintry night, just to set,
(20:55):
because they are short storiesand it's a short book.
But uh, each, each one of thecharacters became someone in my
mind and I I would to know.
So I'm hoping you will write anovel.
I think having a full storywould be a wonderful thing
(21:16):
coming from the pen of ChristyClaxton.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Right, and I get that a lot.
I want to know more when Iwrite stories, but I think I
write stories the way I writesongs, because so many of my
songs are really the same thing.
They're short stories.
Lost in Texas short story Juanis a short story.
I mean, they are based on realpeople and these events and
(21:41):
songs are just quicker andeasier to write for me than
short stories.
But I've thought about thathonestly what if I took Lost in
Texas and wrote a novel aroundthat song, you know?
So I'll keep writing.
I plan on keep writing.
I love it and I may be beggingon the streets, but I hope that
(22:03):
I can continue to do this.
I'm calling myself semi-retiredbecause I turned 60 last month,
so if I can stay out of thecorporate world, I will and I
will keep writing and I hopethat people will keep reading.
But yes, freeing Jesus wasmeant to be a flight read.
You could fly from New York toLA and read it, or you could
(22:26):
honestly, you could fly fromAustin to I don't know San Juan
and read it.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
A good couple of hours to spend your time in
other people's lives.
I know that you're involvedwith several other things.
You're still connected to Peacefrom the Porch and Porch Talk.
So what are?
I think you have a blog.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
On christyclaxtoncom.
I do blog some, but I havemoved more toward Porch Talk,
which is a podcast and you cancatch it on Spotify.
Porch Talk a Peace from thePorch project, and for the most
part it's me and my dear friend,longtime songwriting and
performing partner, stacy Leder,in discussion.
(23:14):
But I do bring other people inand we're just having a
conversation on the proverbialto quote porch about topics that
are important mostly to thoseof us who do not fit into cis,
white, male, you know, andtalking about the challenges of
(23:37):
LGBTQ plus, community women,people of color and the
challenges we have.
So, and then, you know,eventually hopefully we get to
more fun stuff too as well.
It's, it's pretty much anythinggoes.
We've just sort of gotten intothis the challenges that people
face in the workforce, becauseit's such a real thing right now
(23:59):
, with layoffs and the strugglesthat people are are going
through right now.
But yeah, tonight in fact and Iknow that this is going to be
post tonight when this airs butStacey and I are doing a live
recording from Book Woman forPorch Talk and we'll be
(24:19):
encouraging audience toparticipate, to ask questions,
to offer commentary.
So we'll set up a microphone forthe audience and record it and
I'm not sure how long.
Maybe I can do it fast, but thepost-production is the hardest
part of a podcast.
But I'll get that up for peopleto hear and what I'm hoping is
(24:42):
that we're able to do that inmany different places where
we're you know, me and someoneelse, but the podcast recording
live from different venuesanywhere Houston, austin, la,
whatever.
We want to do that, and I wantto do that because I want the
community sense, I want peopleto be involved and then also
(25:03):
doing readings from the books aswell.
But yes, porch Talk is onSpotify, so Porch Talk, a Piece
from the Porch Project.
If that's tricky, justchristyclaxtoncom.
Everything is there.
So people can get to my books,they can get to the podcast and
(25:26):
any other writings and such thatI've done.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Well, we've been talking with Christy Claxton
about her book Freeing Jesus andOther Lives, and you can check
her out at christyclaxtoncom andfind out about her other piece
from the Porch Projects.
Thank you for being with us onQueer Voices.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Thank you, deb.
So great to talk to you.
This is Glenn from Queer Voices.
You're listening to KPFT.
That means you're alreadyparticipating just by listening.
But how about doing more?
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(26:14):
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(26:59):
91.9 FM Huntsville and worldwideon the internet at kpftorg and
worldwide on the internet atkpftorg.
Speaker 6 (27:10):
This is Brett Pelham and here is your community
calendar for February.
February has a lot of theatergoing on and one of the big ones
is February 7th.
The Catastrophic Theaterpresents Miss LaRage's House of
Dystopian Future.
It's by the wildest author,Candice DeMesa.
It opens at the match onFebruary 7th.
(27:32):
It will run through March 1st.
It is an entire cast ofnon-binary and trans actors, so
you need to see this one.
It is going to be the queerestof the queer as far as plays go
this year.
And speaking of gay theater, laBoheme at Houston Grand Opera.
If you haven't seen this oneyet and according to my Facebook
timeline most of you have theyare having a Pride Night.
(27:55):
It's going to be SundayFebruary 9th.
That is Houston Grand Opera'sproduction of La Boheme.
Sunday February 9th, ticketsare half off.
If you go to Outsmart, theyhave a code and they are
actually sponsoring this off.
If you go to Outsmart, theyhave a code and they are
actually sponsoring thisparticular production.
So thanks to Outsmart Magazinefor saving us some money on
these opera tickets.
All right, this month we'retalking galas, galas, galas.
(28:17):
The first one up is Wags andWhiskers, which is a luncheon
and pet fashion show, whereErnie Manouse and Frank
Billingsley are going to behonored as well.
That's going to be held atHotel Zaza on February 8th.
Get ready for Wags and WhiskersAlso coming up February 15th.
(28:41):
You know you can't go withoutcelebrating Valentine's Day and
we have Project Love, which is aValentine's fundraising gala.
It is going to be at the DowAcademic Center in Lake Jackson
and it's going to star RuPaul'sDrag Race star, mistress Isabel
Brooks from Houston.
So if you want to catch her,that will be February 15th.
Oh, and Chloe Ross is going tobe performing with her as well.
(29:02):
And, of course, the big eventFriday, february 28th, the 72nd
Diana Awards.
Now, this time it's going to beheld at a quorum, at Poor
Behavior.
This year's beneficiary is outfor education.
So always a great time you getto go to the Diana Awards, get
some great first classentertainment, some great food,
(29:24):
a lot of jokes, a lot of greatawards, and the Dianas is one of
the oldest gay organizations inwell the country.
So definitely go out andsupport them.
Friday, february 28th, the 72ndDiana Awards, and we will see
you next month.
Multidisciplinary artist, writer, actor, activist, filmmaker,
(29:46):
mother it's so hard to pin downCandace DeMesa because when you
think you got her, she justshifts again.
In her own words, she usestheater, performance, multiple
literary genres, activism, dance, critical pedagogy, rituals,
social practice, documentary,experimental and short film.
She uses textures that involvegrief, world-building, science
(30:09):
fiction, afrofuturism, fantasy,spiritual technologies of
African cosmologies to fashionwhat we call multidisciplinary
experiences.
We last saw Candice here inHouston, at least sort of
virtually on film, in her mostrecent commissioned work, a
Maroon's Guide to time and space, which had its world premiere
(30:30):
performance run with acatastrophic theater May through
June 2023 at the match.
It basically featured HarrietTubman as a time-traveling DJ
who took the audience on a wildride.
Few could ever forget.
Well, she's back and she's gota new production that opens on
February 7th and runs throughMarch 3rd, called Miss LaRage's
House of Dystopian Futures.
(30:52):
Once again, catastrophicTheater is presenting this at
the match.
So please welcome somebody thatI just idolize to queer voices,
the undefinable and completelyfree and liberated Candice
DeMesa.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Hello, I love thinking about myself as free
and liberated.
Candice DeMesa.
Hello, I love thinking aboutmyself as free and liberated.
I just need to tell my toddlerthat, like she's yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:15):
Well, I think that that's what your work has such a
sense of.
It's free of any kind ofexpectations or rules or
anything.
And you do make this collageout of theater, and I think that
that's what people are reallydrawn to, especially with these
productions, is that you justcombine it all.
It's wild and very few peopleare doing this.
(31:35):
How do you describe yourself?
How do you describe yourself asan artist?
Speaker 3 (31:38):
I mean, you know, I have like my artist bio, which
is like, of course you know,like the artist calling card for
like the business side.
You know you have to write itup and make it sound great.
But how I would describe my,how I would describe myself as
an artist, is I am alwayslooking at the world from this
like spiritual lens, a verynon-material lens, and I am in a
(32:02):
really deep, committedrelationship with inquiry and
questions and soul searching.
And so I feel like all of myart is trying to get to the root
of why this group project ofwhat it is to be human sucks so
bad.
Like, why does it suck?
And I just I'm always thinkingabout like what would it take
(32:23):
for us to do better at this, andwhat would it take for us to do
better at this, and what wouldit take for us to be freer and
more liberated together?
I just I think about itconstantly, all day, all night,
finding new ways to look at thatquestion.
Speaker 6 (32:38):
Well, second up, I wanted to ask you we've got Miss
LaRoccia's House of DystopianFutures.
How do you describe that, whichis probably even a harder
question?
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Oh, my goodness, I think this is the weirdest thing
I've ever done.
Oh, yay, today it is so weirdand even me, as I was like
reading what I wrote.
I'm like what is in that head,I don't know.
You know this project broughtto you by being on the spectrum.
You know this project broughtto you by being on the spectrum.
(33:12):
So I think Mr Rogers House ofDystopian Futures imagines a
world where humans haveessentially, like we are coming
to an impending crisis we're inthe midst of a poly crisis right
now, with multiple wars,multiple environmental crises,
multiple man-made environmentalcrises and so it imagines that
(33:33):
moment after all of these criseshit ahead.
It explores what a world thatde-centers human supremacy would
look like.
It imagines what might plantsanimals mineral.
It imagines what might plantsanimals mineral, like rocks and
the earth itself.
What might they have to say tohumans about what it is to exist
(33:54):
here on this floating rock inspace?
It is done through some reallyamazing storytellers.
All of our artists are queer ornon-binary.
Identifying artists are queeror non-binary identifying.
I think that's importantbecause they are embodying these
primordial essences of thesebiological entities.
Right One, miss Leraj, embodiesearth.
(34:15):
We have Miss Minnie, whoembodies the mineral aspect,
rocks, geological, massivecanyons.
We've got Fi, who is fire,mommy, mommy Water, who is water
, and we have Flora and Fauna,and then we have Fungi, which is
a digital character.
So the show imagines what wouldit be like to teach humans what
(34:37):
it is to exist through the eyesof all of these primordial
entities and their song anddance and film.
And it's really weird.
It's so weird.
Speaker 6 (34:49):
Oh, my gosh, I I'm gonna have so much fun trying to
write this summary, oh yeah,yeah, I struggled let me ask you
just where did you come from?
Where were you raised?
Speaker 3 (35:05):
so I was raised in in California, in Southern
California.
Okay, this explains a lot.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Oh it does it really does it really does it like
totally tracks.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Yeah, I was raised in Southern California.
My mother is African Americanand my father is from Haiti.
I grew up just like a SouthernCalifornia baby and then moved
to Texas when I was 25, about 25.
Speaker 6 (35:27):
Why did you come here from Southern California?
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Oh my God, the cost of living.
That really, yeah, yeah,california expensive.
I didn't want to.
Yeah, I couldn't do thatanymore.
Speaker 6 (35:37):
What do you like about here?
I mean, is it, are you a fan ofHouston?
What is it that draws you hereand makes you say, hey, I'm
going to be an artist here inHouston?
Speaker 3 (35:45):
I really owe all of my artistic development to
Houston.
Really, I don't think there isany artistic me without Houston.
The seed was like nurtured inSouthern like.
Yeah, the seed was nurtured inSouthern California but as far
as like the growth, I owecatastrophic theater a lot,
giving them my first like leadrole in a show, especially that
(36:07):
didn't specifically request forthat character like an
African-American or blackactress, you know, which was a
struggle in Houston at the time.
So that was like monumental forme.
Speaker 6 (36:17):
Which show is that?
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Oh, it was buried child.
Speaker 6 (36:20):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
And they've really been a big part of like,
supporting all of my growth andexpansion, which has been really
, really important.
But there's so many other likeindividuals and organizations in
Houston that have really like,trusted me and believed in me
and helped me to grow.
So Houston is very is a veryspecial place as far as the arts
ecosystem, the theaterecosystem I don't know that
(36:44):
people know that we have moretheaters per capita than most of
the US.
This is a great network tothrow your hand into.
There are great artists hereand, of course, we have a great
like funding arts ecosystem herebecause of the oil revenue.
Right, houston's very specialand unique in terms of the
amount of funding that'savailable.
(37:04):
So I love Houston.
I think Houston's a great artcity and I'm so excited that the
nation recognizes thatHouston's a powerhouse.
We've got a lot of powerhouseartists of all genres that come
out of here.
Speaker 6 (37:16):
It's amazing and I've definitely been a champion in
the last couple of years andjust looking at people that are
coming from New York and LA andall these places saying that
they're coming here because theyhave more freedom that word
again to do what they want, alittle bit less constrained by
things like money and space, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Card for arts?
Speaker 6 (37:38):
Yes, so what was your educational background?
Like I know, I was trying toread your biography, tell us a
little bit about what you kindof came up studying.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
I went to Cal State, long Beach, long Beach, anyway,
homeless new dog, and Iinitially studied theater and
then my junior year I changed toblack studies.
And really it's because I foundat the time as an actor I was
having a hard time embodyingcharacters because I did not
(38:05):
realize in my head the defaulthuman that I was trying to
embody was white and I couldn'tbe white.
I didn't actually have as aneutral in my head even myself,
you know, as a point ofdeparture.
And when I realized that whatwas happening in my brain, I
(38:26):
changed to Black Studies becauseI wanted to know about that
phenomenon, like, how does thishappen socially, what has been
happening around this where,like, the default human can be
not you and I could absorb that.
How could I even have absorbedthat?
So that was where I learned allabout social and economic
relationships between race andclass and gender and how that's
(38:51):
manifested historically aroundthe world, specifically in the
United States.
And then, because I, you know,always think of myself as
somebody who, like, wants tochange the world, I went and got
a master's degree.
At that time I had one kid.
I went and got a master's degreeshortly after in public
administration, thinking like,yeah, I'll do government work,
(39:13):
you know I'll do.
Yeah, I'll change the world.
What a.
You know, that was so cute, oh,so cute.
But I thought I would changethe world that way, but it was.
It was actually reallyimportant for me because I
learned about bureaucracy, Ilearned about systems and
structures, I learned more aboutsome of the impediments
(39:35):
government to what we're dealingwith as far as some of the
limitations on our abilities tobe free for damn near all of us,
and I learned some systematicapproaches that I still use to
my art.
I learned grant writing.
I learned just very specific,important work around the
administration of the art that Ido.
That has been actually reallycritical.
So it ended up working out,even though it's very different
than what I thought I would bedoing.
Speaker 6 (39:56):
No, that's wild, because most artists do not know
how to get those grants or howto do the business side of the
art and without that to base youknow, to fund your project you
can't get anywhere.
You know you're just going tobe in a cardboard box on a
street corner going hey, look atme, your work is so brilliant.
I mean it's like this collage.
(40:17):
And when I saw your work at theCatastrophic last year I mean
it was just this poetry, it wasfilm, it was theater, it were
these innovative sets, it wasthese wild costumes, this music.
I mean it was just.
Everything was just thrown intothis bucket and I felt like I'm
just not in a piece of theater,I'm in a world.
(40:39):
All of a sudden I'm in thisentire environment and all of my
senses are engaged andeverything's coming at me and
I'm seeing all these differentforms of expression.
How did you come up with thisway of expressing yourself
theatrically?
Because it feels new.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
So I don't have any formal training as far as, like
playwriting or things like that.
I think that works in my favorbecause I do feel freer to just,
I guess, do what I want.
But as an actor, so I did priorto you know creating, know
creating my own projects.
You know I did act all aroundthe city and at the alley
(41:15):
theater, so I did learn, I didhave a lot of time looking at
scripts and and understandingtext and understanding what,
like, what good writing is, whatgood storytelling is.
And then when I shifted intolike multidisciplinary art
outside of theater, then I wasexposed to a whole new world
where artists could jump reallyfar out into things I thought
(41:37):
were like this is weird andawkward and I feel uncomfortable
and there were so fewerlimitations than the traditional
theater that I cut my teeth inand I really loved that and this
opportunity to be free andactually the project I first
pitched to Catastrophic.
that meeting did not go verywell.
(41:57):
I was nervous about jumping far, so I pitched them like a very
safe traditional play and I'm sograteful that maybe like three
days later, I was like I think I, I think I got scared and I
think I'm settling.
And they days later I was likeI think I got scared and I think
I'm settling.
And they were like yes, yes, weagree and we love your work and
we want to encourage you tojump as far out as you want.
That's what you know.
(42:18):
That's their theater, theysupport that.
And so I had been thinkingabout Harriet Tubman as a time
traveler for years, just likeruminating on this concept and
thinking like, oh, harrietTubman saw a future and she saw
like black people free.
And then one day I was like,well, I don't feel very free, so
who did she see?
And then that threw me on awhole nother.
(42:40):
Like you know, portal of like.
Oh, my God, she saw otherpeople beside us.
Who is she saying?
Like, how do I look?
I'm looking at her.
She's looking past me.
I should be looking forward tothe future.
Yeah it just I had been thinkingabout it actually for some
years.
And then how that relates withindigenous African
spiritualities, where you learnyou can't get anywhere into
(43:01):
indigenous Africanspiritualities and not hit some
other entity who, they say,taught them what they know about
, essentially how to be human,how to organize societies, and I
couldn't get around that.
The skeptic in me always wantsto be like, oh, but I'm like, if
you're going to honorindigenous wisdom and they say
(43:22):
that they are not alone in thecosmos, that these other
entities have come and helpedthem, then you have to consider
that.
And so I just I did.
I threw it all in a in ablender, like all these things I
ruminate on, like I said, shoutout to being on the spectrum
for the, the rumination and youknow these hyper fixations,
space and harriet tubman.
(43:43):
But I threw them all in theblender and that's the show that
came out is maroon's Guide,portals and dancing.
Speaker 6 (43:50):
And I've been a theater critic for over a decade
which embarrasses me to evensay now and I have seen so many
Black companies here in Houston,such as Ensemble Vincent,
victoria Presents, the SankofaCollective, a whole bunch of
people and I don't feel likethey're doing what you're doing.
It feels like that they dealwith kind of a cultural heritage
and they deal a lot with forlack of a better word the past
(44:13):
or the present, and I feel likeyou, candice, you're owning the
future and it's so cool to seethat you actually are projecting
this afrofuturism that I don'teven think I had a definition of
that until I saw your show andstarted like deep diving and of
course I did.
When I saw that LovecraftCountry series too but shout out
(44:34):
to Lovecraft Country on HBO Iwanted to ask who are your
influences Like?
Who influenced you as an artist?
Speaker 3 (44:42):
Lovecraft Country I really loved.
I think the writer is oh, Iknow her.
I think her last name is NaimaGreen.
I love this show so much I hadto go look her up because I said
who, who did this, who did this?
Speaker 6 (44:56):
Misha Green, oh what was it.
Misha Green.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Misha Green.
Yes, thank you, misha Green.
I love the work that her andthe other writers in the room
did for the show, and I thinkthat was where I realized that I
am a science fiction person.
And I hadn't really known that,but it made sense once I
realized it.
But I'm like oh, this is who Iam, this is what I do.
(45:19):
The other show that reallyinspired me was Atlanta.
Yeah, the show Atlanta.
Like just how they just brokeall the rules by the time they
got to season four.
It was just odd anddisconnected story wise, and I
loved the freedom of that.
I think those would probably bemy biggest influences.
There's another artist out ofHouston that I, autumn Knight.
(45:41):
That has a very successfulcareer and I'm always just
inspired by what to me feelslike a thread of freedom in the
work and I am most inspired by.
I just do not.
I'm very bored and uninterestedin dealing with the past or the
present.
I'm uninterested.
(46:02):
A big thrust of my work is thatI don't want to tell oppression
stories.
There is no real path tofreedom there, there's only
telling someone else's narrative.
And so if I'm going to create alane for myself and the people
I love to exist, I have to lookat the future.
I have to find that thread toplace them safely, and so I
(46:24):
don't.
I don't deal with depression.
It's actually explicit inMaroon's Guide.
It explicitly says there are no.
There is no whiteness in themaking of this piece.
We're not escaping from slavery.
We're not escaping like Harrietis in a battle with no one.
Because I think if you makethat the central conflict, it
prioritizes again the systemyou're trying to subvert,
(46:49):
prioritizes again the systemyou're trying to subvert.
So I don't do it as a practice.
And it's the same with MissLaRogge's House of Dystopian
Futures, which I call queerfuturism.
Now I mean, I'm on a new thread, which is I want to de-center
humans completely, likeeverything that humans make and
label.
I don't want to de-center.
What if we were not importantanymore?
Make and label?
I don't want to decenter.
(47:09):
What if we were not importantanymore?
What if what we made we lookedat twice, three times?
What if we trusted nature morethan we trusted the human
impulse to categorize?
And I just feel like that's thefreest way we can get.
I keep my feet in the present,but I keep my heart and my head
in the future.
That's an amazing place to be,obviously heart and my head in
the future.
Speaker 6 (47:25):
That's an amazing place to be, obviously.
And another thing I wanted toask you and this is really banal
but what music do you listen toLike when?
If I go into a playlist ofyours, what am I going to get?
Speaker 3 (47:36):
That's a good question.
Okay, I tend to listen to likethe same bunch of things over
and over.
Okay, so when I was writing aMaroon's Guide, there is another
Houston artist named Lee Harrisand I listened to one of her
albums.
I think it was called.
It has something to do withThird Ward.
(47:57):
It felt really scary to jumpfar out and so I just wanted to
listen to something that feltfar out.
Another artist jumping far outsonically, making interesting
things with the voice and soundand exploring, and I wanted to
feel free, so I would listen tothat to help me get out of my
(48:18):
own mind.
Fear and mind, blah, blah, blah.
This one.
I listened to Plantasia by MortGarson.
It is a strange tinkly albumand the songs are like oh to an
African violet, it's a song to aspider plant.
I think it came out in the late70s and it's like weird, like
(48:43):
synth music to plants.
Speaker 6 (48:46):
I am, so there I'm going.
Speaker 3 (48:47):
So good and I just, yeah, it makes me think to
plants.
I'm so there, I'm going so good, it makes me think about plants
and I felt like it was reallyfun.
So if I'm creating, I kind ofhave to listen to something that
feels like the mood of what I'mtrying to live in.
Speaker 6 (49:02):
You know it's funny because when I first saw you and
when I saw your videopresentations and Maroon's Guide
with you talking, I immediatelywent video presentations and
Maroon's Guide with you talkingI immediately went to Prince and
that is somebody that I grew upwith and I felt like he saw the
future.
It's hard for me to explain,but I felt like that when I went
to a Prince show.
There were no colors anymore,there were no boundaries.
(49:23):
We all felt so free to be witheach other.
You reminded me just the waythat you held yourself, the way
that you spoke, the way that youseem to come from the future.
It just reminded me of thispresence, of this music giant
that I worshipped growing up.
But there's one other artistthat, if you get a chance to
check out, there's a Swedishsinger called Agnes and she came
(49:43):
.
Yeah, she came out with an albumcalled Magic Still Exists and
it's an album that you have tolisten to from the very start to
the end.
You cannot skip around on thetracks, because it is totally a
lecture about being andexistence and things like that.
And I just thought when Istarted listening to it I was
like am I going to see CandaceDeMesa pop up in here somewhere?
(50:03):
So definitely, Magic StillExists by Agnes.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
I'm going to listen to it immediately after this,
like immediately, and I'm gonnaeat.
Speaker 6 (50:12):
We've gone off the rails so much, but that's
expected, because I'm talking tocandace de mesa, miss laurage's
house of dystopian futures,full of things like judgmental
rocks and things the earthcoming to life, and I can't wait
.
And it's running at the MatchComplex.
Starts February 7th.
Runs through March 3rd.
(50:32):
One of the wonderful thingsabout Catastrophic tickets are
pay what you can.
You don't even have to pay likesome exorbitant amount that
they're going to set for you.
You can absolutely do it, butfrom my experience it's worth
every penny that you can offer.
I'm so thrilled to see youthriving and coming up on your
second show, so I will be therejust cheering and thank you for
(50:52):
coming on Queer Voices.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
And it runs February 7th through March 1st.
Okay, so can I briefly say I amso excited about this show
because it's my first foray intomy new mental fixation, which
I'm labeling queer futures, andI'm sure that label exists, but
I'm borrowing it.
I really am loving like.
(51:15):
My idea of this queer futurethrough this show is that a
queer future is where we ashumans position ourselves within
the larger spectrum of all life, cosmic life, plants, animals
and what I really love, and whyit's so important to me that we
have queer storytellers tellingthe story, is that when we
(51:38):
really position humans as partof nature, the things that we
find divisive, right Transphobiathere is no precedent for that
in nature.
There is no precedent forhomophobia there is no precedent
, there's not even, I think,from a natural lens.
There wouldn't even be likeneed for labeling because there
is no opposing.
All of these things exist sobeautifully in nature as a
(52:01):
function of an ecosystem of care.
And I think humans, if we couldreally just get off ourselves
as like we think you know beingsupreme, we could really find,
by looking at theseinterrelationships, ways that we
could organize ourself in oursociety.
(52:21):
That would really help us toget out of our own way in terms
of how we're limiting empathy toeach other.
I love that because the futureto me is us.
When we rejoin plants.
That future is clear.
That future is so queer codedwhen we look at it and my
entrance into queer identity isthrough.
(52:43):
I love the way that bell hooksterms it, which is like existing
outside of racial, cis, hetero,patriarchal system.
Right, just, I find my Blackwomanhood very much exists
outside of a gender binary.
Personally, I've never feltlike I've had to exist in the
gender binary that exists inlike the white colonial
imagination.
There's been an expansivenessthat's been afforded because
(53:07):
I've my identity's always beenat odds with every part of the,
the society that's been.
It was meant to be oppressivebut it's actually been very
liberating because I was freefrom the get-go.
If you really look at it, youknow this.
These identities can be freefrom the get-go.
I love that.
Looking at plants and animalsand as prophets, as teachers, as
(53:29):
master teachers, really showsus that what we're grappling
with is like biology, not evenone on one.
It's the basis for nature andalready figured out how to
evolve to make sure thateverybody fits it, and already
figured that out like hundredsof millions of years ago and
we're still like on square one.
And then also there's going tobe very elaborate and flamboyant
(53:51):
costumes and there's a wholedance number again and just
getting roasted by nature, whichI really just want to see
humans get roasted, just gettalked bad to Planting animals
who are completely above andbeyond the human definitions of
gender and just look fabulous.
It's like my dream right now.
Speaker 6 (54:11):
It's a great dream to have right now, because it does
feel like such a scary time tobe queer.
I mean, it's really been a hardyear, so we need Miss LaRage
more than ever.
So there you go.
Speaker 3 (54:22):
To guide us all into.
I do I just really hope to takeall these communities that I
love and I'm a part of that havenamed and claimed me and I name
and claim I really am, I feellike, one by one, I'm just like
trying to take us and deposit usinto like a little homeland.
Do you know a future homelandwhere, in spite of what's
happening socially, there isthis like free place in the
(54:45):
heart that we can hold right,like as a promised, a promised
land.
That's really that's what I'mhoping, and I'm hoping that
thread of like, that feeling ofpromised land, becomes
infectious enough that once youfeel it, you can't go backwards,
you can't unfree when somebodyhas given you a space to be free
.
Speaker 6 (55:02):
Well, there you go.
Artistic Harriet Tubman,candice DeMesa.
Let's go Miss LaRogia's House'sDystopian Futures.
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
This has been Queer Voices, heard on KPFT Houston
and as a podcast available fromseveral podcasting sources.
Check our webpageQueerVoicesorg for more
information.
Queer Voices executive produceris Brian Levinka.
Debra Moncrief-Bell isco-producer, brett Cullum and
(55:44):
David Mendoza-Druzman arecontributors, and David
Mendoza-Druzman are contributorsand Brett is also our webmaster
.
The News Wrap segment is partof another podcast called this
Way Out, which is produced inLos Angeles.
Speaker 5 (55:57):
Some of the material in this program has been edited
to improve clarity and runtime.
This program does not endorseany political views or animal
species.
Views, opinions andendorsements are those of the
participants and theorganizations they represent.
In case of death, pleasediscontinue For Queer Voices.
I'm Glenn Holt, thank you.
Hello everybody, this is Queer Voices, a podcast
version of a broadcast radioshow that's been on the air in
Houston, texas for severaldecades.
This week, debra Moncrief-Bellhas a conversation with
well-known lesbian musician andwriter, Christy Claxton.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Freeing Jesus.
I wrote that story in themid-90s, so LGBTQ plus was still
even in Austin.
We were ducking under the radarfor our own safety.
That character, her neighbor Iintentionally wrote her to be
sort of just almost in theshadows.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Brett Cullum has a conversation with Candace DeMesa
.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Shadows brett cullum has a conversation with candace
demesa, actor, activist andfilmmaker.
I don't have any formaltraining as far as like
playwriting or things like that.
I think that works in my favorbecause I do feel freer to just,
I guess, do what I want.
But as an actor so I did priorto creating my own projects I
did act all around the city andat the Alley Theater.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
And we have Brett's community calendar.
Queer Voices starts now.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
This is Deborah Moncrief-Bell, and today I'm
talking with Christy Claxtonabout her new book Bringing
Jesus and Other Lies.
First of all, christy, we'veknown each other for a number of
years, and I first knew you asa musician.
In fact, you even played in theKPFT studios.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Many times I did yes, yes, in fact pre-production.
We were reminiscing about thosedays with you and Jimmy Carper,
and Outvoice was always so kindto me as a musician and it's so
much appreciated.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Certainly I enjoyed the music in your piece from the
porch project, which at onetime Christy had a place out in
LaGrange and it was a house thathad this big porch and so the
porch became the stage and shewould have different musicians
come out and she would play andit was quite a special time and
(02:14):
place.
But you've got to make moneyfor the man, and Christy has had
a career that I had not evenrealized that she had been part
of, which was a 30-plus careeras a I guess a middle manager
would be the correct title.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, director, I think that's middle management
in most corporate structuresquarely in the middle.
I worked for about 12 years,squarely in the middle.
I worked for about 12 years.
I worked for a large worldwidepublication or a company that
publishing e-commerce marketingas a director of commerce
(02:56):
operations.
There were things about it Ireally enjoyed, especially the
young people my team I had young.
Most of my team were younger,you know, they could people my
team Most of my team wereyounger.
They could have been my kidsand they kept me refreshed and
feeling optimistic and I lovethem very much.
But at the same time, corporateis you're not there for the
(03:20):
mission, you are there for thestockholder.
It becomes soul-sucking andanyone who believes that they're
there because they as a personreally matter probably need.
This is so terrible, but it'strue.
You probably need to get thatout of your head.
The money's good, the benefitsare great, but you're selling
out for a certain amount of yourlife and I, after I was laid
(03:43):
off along with many of themiddle management structure of
that company, I was told by awoman executive that used to be
with the company you're just anumber in a cell of a
spreadsheet and your number wastoo high has nothing to do or
about you.
It's about your salary.
So you know.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
You know, here I am, and as soon as I was laid off, I
started writing again you saidyou're a writer and a creative
thinker and you spent yourcareer masquerading as an
operational leader, but younever stopped writing your short
stories, essays, blogs andsongs.
What was, uh, your approach, inyour natural state of
(04:27):
creativity, to holding thosepositions and understanding what
motivates people to do thethings they do?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I have a master's degree in creative writing and
for my thesis I wrote a play,and this is I'm actually talking
more about at this point.
Another book that I put outcalled Leadership Challenged a
middle manager memoir.
I've done two one or publishedtwo, shall I say.
But what I had, an instructorwho actually won a Pulitzer that
(05:03):
taught us about premise.
And when you think aboutpremise from a playwriting point
of view, plays are action,they're active.
So that premise is prettysimple.
It's A leads to B and in thecorporate world or in a
leadership role, you're oftenlooking at B and you need to
(05:25):
understand what was A to get youto B.
And if it's a failure, if B issome sort of a failure, what
happened at A that made thatfailure happen?
And if you go back and you lookat people because regardless of
how two-dimensional people aremade to be in a corporation,
they're still human.
(05:46):
So I would use the samefaculties that I used for
writing, especially shortstories like the ones in Freeing
Jesus.
I would use that premise typeapproach to why did this person
act in a way that led to B.
So really A becomes this Y, andif you understand the Y as a
(06:08):
leader, then you have anopportunity to mitigate failure,
to support success and make abetter workspace and bring in
some it's kind of a false sense,but to bring in that sense of
ownership and pride in what aperson does.
And if you can do that, thenthe company is going to benefit,
(06:31):
whether they understand that ornot.
So as a manager, I alwaysthought about A leads to B.
My A is almost always a humanbeing and that human being
there's something motivating.
Why are they behaving in theway they do?
Why have they become negative?
(06:51):
Or why are they burned out?
It could be something as simpleas you've given that person
more work than they can handle,so helping them in that way.
Or it can be that they havesomething going on at home them
in that way, or it can be thatthey have something going on at
home, even though it's not a jobmanager's job to be someone's
personal therapist, that stillaffects the way they perform and
(07:13):
it has to be addressed.
So that's how I did it and Ithink that that's the part of
leadership.
It's really hard.
The most important thing agreat leader can do is listen.
And leaders typically in acorporate structure, especially
in the middle, because you'regetting crushed from the top and
pressured, and then you have aresponsibility to those that you
(07:33):
lead.
It's really easy to stoplistening and start reacting.
So the most important thinganyone can do in a leadership
position is listen, reallylisten, truly listen, and that's
what I, you know took into that12 years of corporate work that
I did.
But you know, when I writefiction, sometimes these stories
(07:57):
are things I've eavesdroppedover, or every one of them
they're lies, but they're basedin a truth that I've observed.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
As I read the book, which I found quite engaging.
It's kind of the SouthernGothic style is in there, and I
know that that's a result ofsome of the writers that you've
admired I could tell where therewere elements of truth in your
(08:28):
real life, but there weredefinitely things like I don't
think you ever were a poledancer Never.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I knew a few.
You know, I rented my house toa stripper when I was touring
with Out of Nowhere and ingraduate school my theater
friends invited me to drink beerat Dudley's Draw at College
Station.
Anyone listening that went toTexas A&M and wasn't a cowboy
knows about Dudley's Draw and Isat with.
(08:53):
Actually she was a porn star,oh my gosh.
And of course I was likeprobably 19 and terrified.
But she was so interesting andso smart and so engaging.
So I think when I like when Iwrote that I was I've never been
a stripper but I've I've knowna few I think more than anything
(09:14):
there it was someone who'scrass, someone who's kind of
owning their own desperationbecause they don't feel that
they have any other options andat the same time are sort of
poking their finger in the eyeof a concept of salvation that
(09:35):
isn't real.
And so I wanted to write thatstory in a way that she is not
really giving herself any reallove or any real respect, but
slowly she grows into a muchmore dimensional person as she
makes a friend with the lesbianthat lives next door.
(09:55):
And I wrote this Freeing Jesus.
I wrote that story in themid-90s, so LGBTQ plus was still
even in Austin.
We were ducking under the radarfor our own safety.
That character, her neighbor.
I intentionally wrote her to besort of just almost in the
(10:18):
shadows, but not sort of likeRacer X is in Speed Racer.
He's just sort of the dark herothat's waiting when you need
her.
But then I also wanted to pointout that the shallow
objectification that created themain character exists within
our own community.
We do it too.
I mean, how many clubs in yourlifetime have you been to that
(10:42):
people are objectifying otherpeople?
Or when they're on dating apps,I mean it's the perfect form of
themselves.
Men or I have this great bodyor the pics of that part of the
body that only they want to see.
And I wanted that to be in thestory that we in our community
(11:02):
can be just as shallow andself-centered in our wants.
And that's why I ended thestory with her feeling very
dissatisfied with what hadhappened and finding that
salvation is really forgivingourselves and leaning in and
accepting maybe the less prettyor the less flashy things in
(11:24):
life, and when we do that wefind our tribe.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
I found a number of the characters were damaged or
had to deal with damaged peopleand I think you are really
speaking to having compassionand kindness in your approach
and certainly they're very Texasstories.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Writing about what I know is the only really honest
way I can write and throughyears working in hospice, when I
was working in hospice,everybody dies, so you see so
many different types of people,from the highs to the
unbelievable lows, and freeingJesus and other lives to me.
(12:13):
First of all I think it comesoff pretty strongly is I am a
massive fan of Flannery O'Connorand as a Southern writer she
was always, always searching forsalvation or searching for a
pain-free emotionally,physically pain-free place and
running up againstdisappointment in trying to find
(12:34):
that Her stories they're brutal.
I mean they're brutal, butO'Connor for those that don't
know had lupus and her lifecould be brutal.
She literally had to go homeand live with her mother and
give up her dreams of New Yorkand being a part of the literati
.
So I really encourage people toread her writings if you have
(12:56):
it, including her letters.
I think it's always in the backof my mind the Peace from the
Porch Project, always in theback of my mind, the Peace from
the Porch project, my writing,my blogging, always in the back
of my mind that we have to takethose blinders off and see
humanity for what it is andaccept it where it's at.
(13:17):
There's so much beauty that'soverlooked by our own sort of
these worlds.
We create our own milieu, ourown sort of environments that we
feel comfortable in our bubbleand we're not coming out of that
.
And that's what when I writeshort stories, that's what
that's about is you can be avictim of circumstance and in
(13:37):
most cases, that's what thesecharacters are.
They're a victim ofcircumstance and then they have
a choice on what to do aboutthat.
And the irony is that I was avictim of really my own
circumstance by working for somany years in corporate America
and not really doing anythingabout that when I could have.
It's just something as shallowfor me as I was making a hell of
(13:59):
a lot of money and I had thesegreat benefits and it gave my
wife and I had these greatbenefits and it gave my wife and
I the good life, but really wasit a good life?
And I think the question ishere is, when you read Freeing
Jesus, are these the good lifeor do these feel like a life
that we're all living?
And it's a choice.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
I think my favorite story is where the young
offender, who's doing communityservice work as part of his
sentencing, kidnaps his formerthird-grade teacher, who's in
the you describe it as an oldfolks' home and takes her on a
(14:37):
motorcycle ride.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yes, yes, and that story I mean.
Society is so down on him andeven though she enjoys this
adventure with him and hisbuddies, he is still looked down
upon.
He's not going to be forgivenfor what he's done because
(15:01):
people have already set theirminds on who he is and that's
all they see is the offender anddon't see the human being
underneath that.
And that was.
I wish I could remember Deb,when I wrote that, why I wanted
to write something like that.
But there must have been somesort of a writing prompt or
(15:22):
something that asked writers towrite a story about their
favorite teacher or something.
And I wanted to write a storyabout the people who we look at
and say there's no way thatperson had a favorite teacher.
It's a wonder they got out ofschool in the first place.
So you know, she was able toaffect him in a positive way,
(15:46):
even though it was late in herlife and he's a full-grown adult
, versus the stories we alwayssee in social media and TV about
the doctor who was poor, whoseteacher didn't realize that
she's the reason he's a doctor,otherwise he would have been
living on the streets, kind ofstory.
Well, what about the rest?
So that's what that story'sabout.
(16:08):
What about everybody else?
Speaker 4 (16:11):
yeah, I think it was an homage to those special
teachers that we many of us atleast I was fortunate to have
that touched our lives andinspired us and were offered a
guidance to where our life wouldgo, and I felt like you must
have had a teacher like that andthat when you wrote this story
(16:34):
it was with that teacher in mind.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Truthfully, I hated school.
I hated it.
Now that doesn't mean I didn'tdo well in school.
I did do well in school.
I graduated fifth in my classand you know I went on to get my
undergraduate and a master'sdegree, which is school, and
even my mother's, like you, loveschool, I love learning.
(16:59):
I hated school.
I hated the structure of it.
And if I think about favoriteteachers hated school.
I hated the structure of it.
And if I think about favoriteteachers, they don't show up
until high school.
And it was an English teacherwho had the backbone in a small
town to introduce us to trueliterature, true storytelling.
(17:21):
You know nothing.
You know things that would bebanned books today.
And if it weren't for her, Idon't know that I would have
ever known who I really was.
I would have just gone throughschool and done the right thing
and become a teacher, which Ikind of wish I had done, but I
didn't.
But that would have been anhonorable profession per my
(17:43):
mother, my grandmothers wereteachers, my aunt is an educator
, or I would have becomesomething like a lawyer for the
money.
And if it weren't for that oneteacher, yeah, I wouldn't be a
writer.
I know that Her name was MrsClark.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
So these were not stories that you sat down and
wrote and that became the book.
These are stories that havecome to you and that you've
written over the course of 30years.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yes, yes, exactly when those stories come through.
You know well.
Let me say that probably thecorporate career stifled my
writing.
But yes, these are over thecourse of 30 years.
The first story 1968, I wrote ingraduate school it was part of
(18:35):
a class, so that would have beenin the 1990, maybe 91, that I
wrote.
That one Freeing Jesus waswritten in the mid-90s and then
many of what I called theparables were written maybe 15
years ago when I was still atBear Creek and I was doing some
(18:57):
freelancing and there wereoftentimes prompts would come
through for just content and Iwould write a story and I took
it seriously and I would write ashort story.
So they sat around and I hadwanted to publish this many
years ago and then just nevergot to it because the energy
wasn't there from the day jobsucking it away.
(19:19):
And once I published LeadershipChallenge, the middle
management memoir, which I didwrite after being laid off, I
thought about that collection ofstories and I'm like I know how
to do it.
It's done.
Why not go ahead and publishthat as well?
So I did, I put that out as welland honestly, it's probably the
(19:40):
one people prefer or like themost.
I think they're intimidated byLeadership Challenged.
They think it's a business bookand I'm just here to say it is
not.
It is.
I would call it a corporatecoming-of-age story.
It's a memoir.
So it's not business-y at all.
But here I am two books andcurrently working on another.
(20:01):
I'm not sure if it's going tobe a short story or a novel.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
I will tell you that as I was reading and I don't
want to say the stories weren'tcomplete, because they were, but
they also were intriguing in away that I wanted to know more I
was like imagining whathappened next for these people
and what the reactions to themmight have been when you think
(20:30):
about our own narrow littlelives in the world.
And then to imagine it was justfood for thought, which is my
favorite food.
Uh and uh.
It also was a great read for awintry night, just to set,
(20:55):
because they are short storiesand it's a short book.
But uh, each, each one of thecharacters became someone in my
mind and I I would to know.
So I'm hoping you will write anovel.
I think having a full storywould be a wonderful thing
(21:16):
coming from the pen of ChristyClaxton.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Right, and I get that a lot.
I want to know more when Iwrite stories, but I think I
write stories the way I writesongs, because so many of my
songs are really the same thing.
They're short stories.
Lost in Texas short story Juanis a short story.
I mean, they are based on realpeople and these events and
(21:41):
songs are just quicker andeasier to write for me than
short stories.
But I've thought about thathonestly what if I took Lost in
Texas and wrote a novel aroundthat song, you know?
So I'll keep writing.
I plan on keep writing.
I love it and I may be beggingon the streets, but I hope that
(22:03):
I can continue to do this.
I'm calling myself semi-retiredbecause I turned 60 last month,
so if I can stay out of thecorporate world, I will and I
will keep writing and I hopethat people will keep reading.
But yes, freeing Jesus wasmeant to be a flight read.
You could fly from New York toLA and read it, or you could
(22:26):
honestly, you could fly fromAustin to I don't know San Juan
and read it.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
A good couple of hours to spend your time in
other people's lives.
I know that you're involvedwith several other things.
You're still connected to Peacefrom the Porch and Porch Talk.
So what are?
I think you have a blog.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
On christyclaxtoncom.
I do blog some, but I havemoved more toward Porch Talk,
which is a podcast and you cancatch it on Spotify.
Porch Talk a Peace from thePorch project, and for the most
part it's me and my dear friend,longtime songwriting and
performing partner, stacy Leder,in discussion.
(23:14):
But I do bring other people inand we're just having a
conversation on the proverbialto quote porch about topics that
are important mostly to thoseof us who do not fit into cis,
white, male, you know, andtalking about the challenges of
(23:37):
LGBTQ plus, community women,people of color and the
challenges we have.
So, and then, you know,eventually hopefully we get to
more fun stuff too as well.
It's, it's pretty much anythinggoes.
We've just sort of gotten intothis the challenges that people
face in the workforce, becauseit's such a real thing right now
(23:59):
, with layoffs and the strugglesthat people are are going
through right now.
But yeah, tonight in fact and Iknow that this is going to be
post tonight when this airs butStacey and I are doing a live
recording from Book Woman forPorch Talk and we'll be
(24:19):
encouraging audience toparticipate, to ask questions,
to offer commentary.
So we'll set up a microphone forthe audience and record it and
I'm not sure how long.
Maybe I can do it fast, but thepost-production is the hardest
part of a podcast.
But I'll get that up for peopleto hear and what I'm hoping is
(24:42):
that we're able to do that inmany different places where
we're you know, me and someoneelse, but the podcast recording
live from different venuesanywhere Houston, austin, la,
whatever.
We want to do that, and I wantto do that because I want the
community sense, I want peopleto be involved and then also
(25:03):
doing readings from the books aswell.
But yes, porch Talk is onSpotify, so Porch Talk, a Piece
from the Porch Project.
If that's tricky, justchristyclaxtoncom.
Everything is there.
So people can get to my books,they can get to the podcast and
(25:26):
any other writings and such thatI've done.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Well, we've been talking with Christy Claxton
about her book Freeing Jesus andOther Lives, and you can check
her out at christyclaxtoncom andfind out about her other piece
from the Porch Projects.
Thank you for being with us onQueer Voices.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Thank you, deb.
So great to talk to you.
This is Glenn from Queer Voices.
You're listening to KPFT.
That means you're alreadyparticipating just by listening.
But how about doing more?
Kpft is totally listener-funded, which means it's people like
you who are making donations whosupport this community resource
.
Kpft is totally listener-funded, which means it's people like
you who are making donations whosupport this community resource
.
Kpft has no corporate orgovernment strings-attached
(26:14):
funding, which means we're freeto program responsibly, but
without outside influence.
Will you participate in KPFTfinancially?
This station needs everyone wholistens to chip in a few
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Even if you're listening overthe internet on another
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(26:36):
Please become an active memberof the listener community by
making a tax-deductiblecontribution.
Please take a minute to visitkpftorg and click on the red
Donate Now button.
Thank you, this is KPFT 90.1 FMHouston, 89.5 FM Galveston,
(26:59):
91.9 FM Huntsville and worldwideon the internet at kpftorg and
worldwide on the internet atkpftorg.
Speaker 6 (27:10):
This is Brett Pelham and here is your community
calendar for February.
February has a lot of theatergoing on and one of the big ones
is February 7th.
The Catastrophic Theaterpresents Miss LaRage's House of
Dystopian Future.
It's by the wildest author,Candice DeMesa.
It opens at the match onFebruary 7th.
(27:32):
It will run through March 1st.
It is an entire cast ofnon-binary and trans actors, so
you need to see this one.
It is going to be the queerestof the queer as far as plays go
this year.
And speaking of gay theater, laBoheme at Houston Grand Opera.
If you haven't seen this oneyet and according to my Facebook
timeline most of you have theyare having a Pride Night.
(27:55):
It's going to be SundayFebruary 9th.
That is Houston Grand Opera'sproduction of La Boheme.
Sunday February 9th, ticketsare half off.
If you go to Outsmart, theyhave a code and they are
actually sponsoring this off.
If you go to Outsmart, theyhave a code and they are
actually sponsoring thisparticular production.
So thanks to Outsmart Magazinefor saving us some money on
these opera tickets.
All right, this month we'retalking galas, galas, galas.
(28:17):
The first one up is Wags andWhiskers, which is a luncheon
and pet fashion show, whereErnie Manouse and Frank
Billingsley are going to behonored as well.
That's going to be held atHotel Zaza on February 8th.
Get ready for Wags and WhiskersAlso coming up February 15th.
(28:41):
You know you can't go withoutcelebrating Valentine's Day and
we have Project Love, which is aValentine's fundraising gala.
It is going to be at the DowAcademic Center in Lake Jackson
and it's going to star RuPaul'sDrag Race star, mistress Isabel
Brooks from Houston.
So if you want to catch her,that will be February 15th.
Oh, and Chloe Ross is going tobe performing with her as well.
(29:02):
And, of course, the big eventFriday, february 28th, the 72nd
Diana Awards.
Now, this time it's going to beheld at a quorum, at Poor
Behavior.
This year's beneficiary is outfor education.
So always a great time you getto go to the Diana Awards, get
some great first classentertainment, some great food,
(29:24):
a lot of jokes, a lot of greatawards, and the Dianas is one of
the oldest gay organizations inwell the country.
So definitely go out andsupport them.
Friday, february 28th, the 72ndDiana Awards, and we will see
you next month.
Multidisciplinary artist, writer, actor, activist, filmmaker,
(29:46):
mother it's so hard to pin downCandace DeMesa because when you
think you got her, she justshifts again.
In her own words, she usestheater, performance, multiple
literary genres, activism, dance, critical pedagogy, rituals,
social practice, documentary,experimental and short film.
She uses textures that involvegrief, world-building, science
(30:09):
fiction, afrofuturism, fantasy,spiritual technologies of
African cosmologies to fashionwhat we call multidisciplinary
experiences.
We last saw Candice here inHouston, at least sort of
virtually on film, in her mostrecent commissioned work, a
Maroon's Guide to time and space, which had its world premiere
(30:30):
performance run with acatastrophic theater May through
June 2023 at the match.
It basically featured HarrietTubman as a time-traveling DJ
who took the audience on a wildride.
Few could ever forget.
Well, she's back and she's gota new production that opens on
February 7th and runs throughMarch 3rd, called Miss LaRage's
House of Dystopian Futures.
(30:52):
Once again, catastrophicTheater is presenting this at
the match.
So please welcome somebody thatI just idolize to queer voices,
the undefinable and completelyfree and liberated Candice
DeMesa.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Hello, I love thinking about myself as free
and liberated.
Candice DeMesa.
Hello, I love thinking aboutmyself as free and liberated.
I just need to tell my toddlerthat, like she's yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:15):
Well, I think that that's what your work has such a
sense of.
It's free of any kind ofexpectations or rules or
anything.
And you do make this collageout of theater, and I think that
that's what people are reallydrawn to, especially with these
productions, is that you justcombine it all.
It's wild and very few peopleare doing this.
(31:35):
How do you describe yourself?
How do you describe yourself asan artist?
Speaker 3 (31:38):
I mean, you know, I have like my artist bio, which
is like, of course you know,like the artist calling card for
like the business side.
You know you have to write itup and make it sound great.
But how I would describe my,how I would describe myself as
an artist, is I am alwayslooking at the world from this
like spiritual lens, a verynon-material lens, and I am in a
(32:02):
really deep, committedrelationship with inquiry and
questions and soul searching.
And so I feel like all of myart is trying to get to the root
of why this group project ofwhat it is to be human sucks so
bad.
Like, why does it suck?
And I just I'm always thinkingabout like what would it take
(32:23):
for us to do better at this, andwhat would it take for us to do
better at this, and what wouldit take for us to be freer and
more liberated together?
I just I think about itconstantly, all day, all night,
finding new ways to look at thatquestion.
Speaker 6 (32:38):
Well, second up, I wanted to ask you we've got Miss
LaRoccia's House of DystopianFutures.
How do you describe that, whichis probably even a harder
question?
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Oh, my goodness, I think this is the weirdest thing
I've ever done.
Oh, yay, today it is so weirdand even me, as I was like
reading what I wrote.
I'm like what is in that head,I don't know.
You know this project broughtto you by being on the spectrum.
You know this project broughtto you by being on the spectrum.
(33:12):
So I think Mr Rogers House ofDystopian Futures imagines a
world where humans haveessentially, like we are coming
to an impending crisis we're inthe midst of a poly crisis right
now, with multiple wars,multiple environmental crises,
multiple man-made environmentalcrises and so it imagines that
(33:33):
moment after all of these criseshit ahead.
It explores what a world thatde-centers human supremacy would
look like.
It imagines what might plantsanimals mineral.
It imagines what might plantsanimals mineral, like rocks and
the earth itself.
What might they have to say tohumans about what it is to exist
(33:54):
here on this floating rock inspace?
It is done through some reallyamazing storytellers.
All of our artists are queer ornon-binary.
Identifying artists are queeror non-binary identifying.
I think that's importantbecause they are embodying these
primordial essences of thesebiological entities.
Right One, miss Leraj, embodiesearth.
(34:15):
We have Miss Minnie, whoembodies the mineral aspect,
rocks, geological, massivecanyons.
We've got Fi, who is fire,mommy, mommy Water, who is water
, and we have Flora and Fauna,and then we have Fungi, which is
a digital character.
So the show imagines what wouldit be like to teach humans what
(34:37):
it is to exist through the eyesof all of these primordial
entities and their song anddance and film.
And it's really weird.
It's so weird.
Speaker 6 (34:49):
Oh, my gosh, I I'm gonna have so much fun trying to
write this summary, oh yeah,yeah, I struggled let me ask you
just where did you come from?
Where were you raised?
Speaker 3 (35:05):
so I was raised in in California, in Southern
California.
Okay, this explains a lot.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Oh it does it really does it really does it like
totally tracks.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Yeah, I was raised in Southern California.
My mother is African Americanand my father is from Haiti.
I grew up just like a SouthernCalifornia baby and then moved
to Texas when I was 25, about 25.
Speaker 6 (35:27):
Why did you come here from Southern California?
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Oh my God, the cost of living.
That really, yeah, yeah,california expensive.
I didn't want to.
Yeah, I couldn't do thatanymore.
Speaker 6 (35:37):
What do you like about here?
I mean, is it, are you a fan ofHouston?
What is it that draws you hereand makes you say, hey, I'm
going to be an artist here inHouston?
Speaker 3 (35:45):
I really owe all of my artistic development to
Houston.
Really, I don't think there isany artistic me without Houston.
The seed was like nurtured inSouthern like.
Yeah, the seed was nurtured inSouthern California but as far
as like the growth, I owecatastrophic theater a lot,
giving them my first like leadrole in a show, especially that
(36:07):
didn't specifically request forthat character like an
African-American or blackactress, you know, which was a
struggle in Houston at the time.
So that was like monumental forme.
Speaker 6 (36:17):
Which show is that?
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Oh, it was buried child.
Speaker 6 (36:20):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
And they've really been a big part of like,
supporting all of my growth andexpansion, which has been really
, really important.
But there's so many other likeindividuals and organizations in
Houston that have really like,trusted me and believed in me
and helped me to grow.
So Houston is very is a veryspecial place as far as the arts
ecosystem, the theaterecosystem I don't know that
(36:44):
people know that we have moretheaters per capita than most of
the US.
This is a great network tothrow your hand into.
There are great artists hereand, of course, we have a great
like funding arts ecosystem herebecause of the oil revenue.
Right, houston's very specialand unique in terms of the
amount of funding that'savailable.
(37:04):
So I love Houston.
I think Houston's a great artcity and I'm so excited that the
nation recognizes thatHouston's a powerhouse.
We've got a lot of powerhouseartists of all genres that come
out of here.
Speaker 6 (37:16):
It's amazing and I've definitely been a champion in
the last couple of years andjust looking at people that are
coming from New York and LA andall these places saying that
they're coming here because theyhave more freedom that word
again to do what they want, alittle bit less constrained by
things like money and space, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Card for arts?
Speaker 6 (37:38):
Yes, so what was your educational background?
Like I know, I was trying toread your biography, tell us a
little bit about what you kindof came up studying.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
I went to Cal State, long Beach, long Beach, anyway,
homeless new dog, and Iinitially studied theater and
then my junior year I changed toblack studies.
And really it's because I foundat the time as an actor I was
having a hard time embodyingcharacters because I did not
(38:05):
realize in my head the defaulthuman that I was trying to
embody was white and I couldn'tbe white.
I didn't actually have as aneutral in my head even myself,
you know, as a point ofdeparture.
And when I realized that whatwas happening in my brain, I
(38:26):
changed to Black Studies becauseI wanted to know about that
phenomenon, like, how does thishappen socially, what has been
happening around this where,like, the default human can be
not you and I could absorb that.
How could I even have absorbedthat?
So that was where I learned allabout social and economic
relationships between race andclass and gender and how that's
(38:51):
manifested historically aroundthe world, specifically in the
United States.
And then, because I, you know,always think of myself as
somebody who, like, wants tochange the world, I went and got
a master's degree.
At that time I had one kid.
I went and got a master's degreeshortly after in public
administration, thinking like,yeah, I'll do government work,
(39:13):
you know I'll do.
Yeah, I'll change the world.
What a.
You know, that was so cute, oh,so cute.
But I thought I would changethe world that way, but it was.
It was actually reallyimportant for me because I
learned about bureaucracy, Ilearned about systems and
structures, I learned more aboutsome of the impediments
(39:35):
government to what we're dealingwith as far as some of the
limitations on our abilities tobe free for damn near all of us,
and I learned some systematicapproaches that I still use to
my art.
I learned grant writing.
I learned just very specific,important work around the
administration of the art that Ido.
That has been actually reallycritical.
So it ended up working out,even though it's very different
than what I thought I would bedoing.
Speaker 6 (39:56):
No, that's wild, because most artists do not know
how to get those grants or howto do the business side of the
art and without that to base youknow, to fund your project you
can't get anywhere.
You know you're just going tobe in a cardboard box on a
street corner going hey, look atme, your work is so brilliant.
I mean it's like this collage.
(40:17):
And when I saw your work at theCatastrophic last year I mean
it was just this poetry, it wasfilm, it was theater, it were
these innovative sets, it wasthese wild costumes, this music.
I mean it was just.
Everything was just thrown intothis bucket and I felt like I'm
just not in a piece of theater,I'm in a world.
(40:39):
All of a sudden I'm in thisentire environment and all of my
senses are engaged andeverything's coming at me and
I'm seeing all these differentforms of expression.
How did you come up with thisway of expressing yourself
theatrically?
Because it feels new.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
So I don't have any formal training as far as, like
playwriting or things like that.
I think that works in my favorbecause I do feel freer to just,
I guess, do what I want.
But as an actor, so I did priorto you know creating, know
creating my own projects.
You know I did act all aroundthe city and at the alley
(41:15):
theater, so I did learn, I didhave a lot of time looking at
scripts and and understandingtext and understanding what,
like, what good writing is, whatgood storytelling is.
And then when I shifted intolike multidisciplinary art
outside of theater, then I wasexposed to a whole new world
where artists could jump reallyfar out into things I thought
(41:37):
were like this is weird andawkward and I feel uncomfortable
and there were so fewerlimitations than the traditional
theater that I cut my teeth inand I really loved that and this
opportunity to be free andactually the project I first
pitched to Catastrophic.
that meeting did not go verywell.
(41:57):
I was nervous about jumping far, so I pitched them like a very
safe traditional play and I'm sograteful that maybe like three
days later, I was like I think I, I think I got scared and I
think I'm settling.
And they days later I was likeI think I got scared and I think
I'm settling.
And they were like yes, yes, weagree and we love your work and
we want to encourage you tojump as far out as you want.
That's what you know.
(42:18):
That's their theater, theysupport that.
And so I had been thinkingabout Harriet Tubman as a time
traveler for years, just likeruminating on this concept and
thinking like, oh, harrietTubman saw a future and she saw
like black people free.
And then one day I was like,well, I don't feel very free, so
who did she see?
And then that threw me on awhole nother.
(42:40):
Like you know, portal of like.
Oh, my God, she saw otherpeople beside us.
Who is she saying?
Like, how do I look?
I'm looking at her.
She's looking past me.
I should be looking forward tothe future.
Yeah it just I had been thinkingabout it actually for some
years.
And then how that relates withindigenous African
spiritualities, where you learnyou can't get anywhere into
(43:01):
indigenous Africanspiritualities and not hit some
other entity who, they say,taught them what they know about
, essentially how to be human,how to organize societies, and I
couldn't get around that.
The skeptic in me always wantsto be like, oh, but I'm like, if
you're going to honorindigenous wisdom and they say
(43:22):
that they are not alone in thecosmos, that these other
entities have come and helpedthem, then you have to consider
that.
And so I just I did.
I threw it all in a in ablender, like all these things I
ruminate on, like I said, shoutout to being on the spectrum
for the, the rumination and youknow these hyper fixations,
space and harriet tubman.
(43:43):
But I threw them all in theblender and that's the show that
came out is maroon's Guide,portals and dancing.
Speaker 6 (43:50):
And I've been a theater critic for over a decade
which embarrasses me to evensay now and I have seen so many
Black companies here in Houston,such as Ensemble Vincent,
victoria Presents, the SankofaCollective, a whole bunch of
people and I don't feel likethey're doing what you're doing.
It feels like that they dealwith kind of a cultural heritage
and they deal a lot with forlack of a better word the past
(44:13):
or the present, and I feel likeyou, candice, you're owning the
future and it's so cool to seethat you actually are projecting
this afrofuturism that I don'teven think I had a definition of
that until I saw your show andstarted like deep diving and of
course I did.
When I saw that LovecraftCountry series too but shout out
(44:34):
to Lovecraft Country on HBO Iwanted to ask who are your
influences Like?
Who influenced you as an artist?
Speaker 3 (44:42):
Lovecraft Country I really loved.
I think the writer is oh, Iknow her.
I think her last name is NaimaGreen.
I love this show so much I hadto go look her up because I said
who, who did this, who did this?
Speaker 6 (44:56):
Misha Green, oh what was it.
Misha Green.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Misha Green.
Yes, thank you, misha Green.
I love the work that her andthe other writers in the room
did for the show, and I thinkthat was where I realized that I
am a science fiction person.
And I hadn't really known that,but it made sense once I
realized it.
But I'm like oh, this is who Iam, this is what I do.
(45:19):
The other show that reallyinspired me was Atlanta.
Yeah, the show Atlanta.
Like just how they just brokeall the rules by the time they
got to season four.
It was just odd anddisconnected story wise, and I
loved the freedom of that.
I think those would probably bemy biggest influences.
There's another artist out ofHouston that I, autumn Knight.
(45:41):
That has a very successfulcareer and I'm always just
inspired by what to me feelslike a thread of freedom in the
work and I am most inspired by.
I just do not.
I'm very bored and uninterestedin dealing with the past or the
present.
I'm uninterested.
(46:02):
A big thrust of my work is thatI don't want to tell oppression
stories.
There is no real path tofreedom there, there's only
telling someone else's narrative.
And so if I'm going to create alane for myself and the people
I love to exist, I have to lookat the future.
I have to find that thread toplace them safely, and so I
(46:24):
don't.
I don't deal with depression.
It's actually explicit inMaroon's Guide.
It explicitly says there are no.
There is no whiteness in themaking of this piece.
We're not escaping from slavery.
We're not escaping like Harrietis in a battle with no one.
Because I think if you makethat the central conflict, it
prioritizes again the systemyou're trying to subvert,
(46:49):
prioritizes again the systemyou're trying to subvert.
So I don't do it as a practice.
And it's the same with MissLaRogge's House of Dystopian
Futures, which I call queerfuturism.
Now I mean, I'm on a new thread, which is I want to de-center
humans completely, likeeverything that humans make and
label.
I don't want to de-center.
What if we were not importantanymore?
Make and label?
I don't want to decenter.
(47:09):
What if we were not importantanymore?
What if what we made we lookedat twice, three times?
What if we trusted nature morethan we trusted the human
impulse to categorize?
And I just feel like that's thefreest way we can get.
I keep my feet in the present,but I keep my heart and my head
in the future.
That's an amazing place to be,obviously heart and my head in
the future.
Speaker 6 (47:25):
That's an amazing place to be, obviously.
And another thing I wanted toask you and this is really banal
but what music do you listen toLike when?
If I go into a playlist ofyours, what am I going to get?
Speaker 3 (47:36):
That's a good question.
Okay, I tend to listen to likethe same bunch of things over
and over.
Okay, so when I was writing aMaroon's Guide, there is another
Houston artist named Lee Harrisand I listened to one of her
albums.
I think it was called.
It has something to do withThird Ward.
(47:57):
It felt really scary to jumpfar out and so I just wanted to
listen to something that feltfar out.
Another artist jumping far outsonically, making interesting
things with the voice and soundand exploring, and I wanted to
feel free, so I would listen tothat to help me get out of my
(48:18):
own mind.
Fear and mind, blah, blah, blah.
This one.
I listened to Plantasia by MortGarson.
It is a strange tinkly albumand the songs are like oh to an
African violet, it's a song to aspider plant.
I think it came out in the late70s and it's like weird, like
(48:43):
synth music to plants.
Speaker 6 (48:46):
I am, so there I'm going.
Speaker 3 (48:47):
So good and I just, yeah, it makes me think to
plants.
I'm so there, I'm going so good, it makes me think about plants
and I felt like it was reallyfun.
So if I'm creating, I kind ofhave to listen to something that
feels like the mood of what I'mtrying to live in.
Speaker 6 (49:02):
You know it's funny because when I first saw you and
when I saw your videopresentations and Maroon's Guide
with you talking, I immediatelywent video presentations and
Maroon's Guide with you talkingI immediately went to Prince and
that is somebody that I grew upwith and I felt like he saw the
future.
It's hard for me to explain,but I felt like that when I went
to a Prince show.
There were no colors anymore,there were no boundaries.
(49:23):
We all felt so free to be witheach other.
You reminded me just the waythat you held yourself, the way
that you spoke, the way that youseem to come from the future.
It just reminded me of thispresence, of this music giant
that I worshipped growing up.
But there's one other artistthat, if you get a chance to
check out, there's a Swedishsinger called Agnes and she came
(49:43):
.
Yeah, she came out with an albumcalled Magic Still Exists and
it's an album that you have tolisten to from the very start to
the end.
You cannot skip around on thetracks, because it is totally a
lecture about being andexistence and things like that.
And I just thought when Istarted listening to it I was
like am I going to see CandaceDeMesa pop up in here somewhere?
(50:03):
So definitely, Magic StillExists by Agnes.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
I'm going to listen to it immediately after this,
like immediately, and I'm gonnaeat.
Speaker 6 (50:12):
We've gone off the rails so much, but that's
expected, because I'm talking tocandace de mesa, miss laurage's
house of dystopian futures,full of things like judgmental
rocks and things the earthcoming to life, and I can't wait
.
And it's running at the MatchComplex.
Starts February 7th.
Runs through March 3rd.
(50:32):
One of the wonderful thingsabout Catastrophic tickets are
pay what you can.
You don't even have to pay likesome exorbitant amount that
they're going to set for you.
You can absolutely do it, butfrom my experience it's worth
every penny that you can offer.
I'm so thrilled to see youthriving and coming up on your
second show, so I will be therejust cheering and thank you for
(50:52):
coming on Queer Voices.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
And it runs February 7th through March 1st.
Okay, so can I briefly say I amso excited about this show
because it's my first foray intomy new mental fixation, which
I'm labeling queer futures, andI'm sure that label exists, but
I'm borrowing it.
I really am loving like.
(51:15):
My idea of this queer futurethrough this show is that a
queer future is where we ashumans position ourselves within
the larger spectrum of all life, cosmic life, plants, animals
and what I really love, and whyit's so important to me that we
have queer storytellers tellingthe story, is that when we
(51:38):
really position humans as partof nature, the things that we
find divisive, right Transphobiathere is no precedent for that
in nature.
There is no precedent forhomophobia there is no precedent
, there's not even, I think,from a natural lens.
There wouldn't even be likeneed for labeling because there
is no opposing.
All of these things exist sobeautifully in nature as a
(52:01):
function of an ecosystem of care.
And I think humans, if we couldreally just get off ourselves
as like we think you know beingsupreme, we could really find,
by looking at theseinterrelationships, ways that we
could organize ourself in oursociety.
(52:21):
That would really help us toget out of our own way in terms
of how we're limiting empathy toeach other.
I love that because the futureto me is us.
When we rejoin plants.
That future is clear.
That future is so queer codedwhen we look at it and my
entrance into queer identity isthrough.
(52:43):
I love the way that bell hooksterms it, which is like existing
outside of racial, cis, hetero,patriarchal system.
Right, just, I find my Blackwomanhood very much exists
outside of a gender binary.
Personally, I've never feltlike I've had to exist in the
gender binary that exists inlike the white colonial
imagination.
There's been an expansivenessthat's been afforded because
(53:07):
I've my identity's always beenat odds with every part of the,
the society that's been.
It was meant to be oppressivebut it's actually been very
liberating because I was freefrom the get-go.
If you really look at it, youknow this.
These identities can be freefrom the get-go.
I love that.
Looking at plants and animalsand as prophets, as teachers, as
(53:29):
master teachers, really showsus that what we're grappling
with is like biology, not evenone on one.
It's the basis for nature andalready figured out how to
evolve to make sure thateverybody fits it, and already
figured that out like hundredsof millions of years ago and
we're still like on square one.
And then also there's going tobe very elaborate and flamboyant
(53:51):
costumes and there's a wholedance number again and just
getting roasted by nature, whichI really just want to see
humans get roasted, just gettalked bad to Planting animals
who are completely above andbeyond the human definitions of
gender and just look fabulous.
It's like my dream right now.
Speaker 6 (54:11):
It's a great dream to have right now, because it does
feel like such a scary time tobe queer.
I mean, it's really been a hardyear, so we need Miss LaRage
more than ever.
So there you go.
Speaker 3 (54:22):
To guide us all into.
I do I just really hope to takeall these communities that I
love and I'm a part of that havenamed and claimed me and I name
and claim I really am, I feellike, one by one, I'm just like
trying to take us and deposit usinto like a little homeland.
Do you know a future homelandwhere, in spite of what's
happening socially, there isthis like free place in the
(54:45):
heart that we can hold right,like as a promised, a promised
land.
That's really that's what I'mhoping, and I'm hoping that
thread of like, that feeling ofpromised land, becomes
infectious enough that once youfeel it, you can't go backwards,
you can't unfree when somebodyhas given you a space to be free
.
Speaker 6 (55:02):
Well, there you go.
Artistic Harriet Tubman,candice DeMesa.
Let's go Miss LaRogia's House'sDystopian Futures.
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
This has been Queer Voices, heard on KPFT Houston
and as a podcast available fromseveral podcasting sources.
Check our webpageQueerVoicesorg for more
information.
Queer Voices executive produceris Brian Levinka.
Debra Moncrief-Bell isco-producer, brett Cullum and
(55:44):
David Mendoza-Druzman arecontributors, and David
Mendoza-Druzman are contributorsand Brett is also our webmaster
.
The News Wrap segment is partof another podcast called this
Way Out, which is produced inLos Angeles.
Speaker 5 (55:57):
Some of the material in this program has been edited
to improve clarity and runtime.
This program does not endorseany political views or animal
species.
Views, opinions andendorsements are those of the
participants and theorganizations they represent.
In case of death, pleasediscontinue For Queer Voices.
I'm Glenn Holt, thank you.
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