Brett Cullum takes over the show and gives three interviews. First an interview with local actor Wesley Whitson, who is playing HAMLET in a production from the 4th Wall Theatre Houston. The show runs at Spring Street Studios through May 24th.
Then Brett and his partner Lee Ingalls , from their podcast "Prairie Rainbow Review", review the book "Boy Erased", which was also made into a coming of age movie in 2018
And finally Brett has a conversation with Vincent Victoria, who for the last 10 years has been running his own theatrical company that produces both plays and films in Houston.
Queer Voices airs in Houston Texas on 90.1FM KPFT and is heard as a podcast here. Queer Voices hopes to entertain as well as illuminate LGBTQ issues in Houston and beyond. Check out our socials at:
https://www.facebook.com/QueerVoicesKPFT/ and
https://www.instagram.com/queervoices90.1kpft/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, this is Queer Voices, a podcast
version of a broadcast radioshow that's been on the air in
Houston, texas, for severaldecades.
This week, brett Cullum hasthree segments.
First, an interview with localactor Wesley Whitson, who is
playing Hamlet in a productionfrom the Fourth Wall Theatre
(00:22):
Company.
The show runs at Spring StreetStudios through May 24th.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
This production is from New York City.
It's from a theater companycalled the Bedlam Theater
Company.
They're very interested aboutthe relationship between the
actor and the audience and theytry and dissolve that wall as
much as possible, and I think itworks particularly well for
Shakespeare.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Then Brett and his partner, Lee Ingalls, from their
podcast review the book BoyErased, which was also made into
a coming-of-age movie in 2018.
And Brett has a conversationwith Vincent Victoria, who for
the last 10 years has beenrunning his own theatrical
(01:04):
company that produces both playsand films in Houston.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
From May 2nd through May 11th, I have what I'm
calling my Devalicious Project,which is a series of three short
one-act plays written by me,and the first one is called Ella
to Marilyn and it's about thefriendship between Ella
Fitzgerald and Marilyn Monroe.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Queer Voices starts now.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
I'm Brett Cullum and today I have the honor of
talking to one of the biggesttalents here in Houston.
Wesley Whitson is a Houstonnative who graduated from the
University of Houston.
He was a Catherine G McGovern'sCollege of the Arts first
graduating class member.
Wesley has been on stage in somany Shakespeare shows, musicals
(01:51):
, dramas, you name it.
He got to play PrincessCordelia in King Lear, cornelius
the Doctor in Cymbeline.
Twelfth Night he was on stageat the Alley and Puck in
Midsummer Night's Dream.
But now Wesley is poised toface his biggest challenge yet,
because he is playing Hamlet inFourth Wall's production of the
(02:11):
Shakespearean classic.
So welcome to Queer Voices,wesley Whitson.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Hi Brett.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
It is so good to see you.
It's good to see you too.
Okay so, hamlet.
Okay so this is a show that 4thWall is putting up and they are
running it May 2nd through the24th.
Tell me about this particularadaptation, because it has a
little bit of a differentpedigree than what you would
normally kind of know about.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yes, so this production is from New York City
.
It's from a theater companycalled the Bedlam Theater
Company and they're veryinterested about the
relationship between the actorand the audience and they try
and dissolve that wall as muchas possible.
And I think it worksparticularly well for
Shakespeare, because so much ofShakespeare is direct address
(02:57):
and bringing the audience in.
But this production is uniquebecause there's only four actors
that are going to be playingall of the parts that are in
Hamlet.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Does this scare you?
I mean Hamlet, it's like iconic.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean I'd be a fool if Isaid it didn't scare me a
little bit.
It scares me a lot.
I mean there's a lot of room tomess it up and there's room to
fail.
I think that's one side of it.
The other side of it that I'mtrying to hang on to is there's
a long line of people who'vedone it before me and they've
(03:32):
done it well and they've done itsuccessfully and I'm hanging on
to that because I stand ontheir shoulders.
And it's such a popular playthat there's so much media
literature out there about itplay that there's so much media
literature out there about it.
I've never felt alone workingon this process.
I've had a lot of handholdingfrom the greats who've come
before me.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Well, it's crazy when you look at the pedigree of all
the actors that have done thisbefore.
And if you do it uncut, theshow is four hours long.
I mean, it's Shakespeare'slongest play and I think it's
the longest play in the Westernliterature or whatever.
So how are you guys approachingthe length to this one?
(04:14):
How long is it going to be intotal?
Do you have a feeling for thatyet?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
We're doing most of the play, which is awesome.
There are a few cuts here andthere, which is awesome.
There are a few cuts here andthere, but this is pretty much
as close to the full play as wecan get.
Our running time is going to bearound three hours with two
intermissions.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Well, Wesley Whitson, you seem to gravitate towards
Shakespeare more than any youngactor that I really know.
I mean, and I know that it justShakespeare scares me and it
scares a lot of actors, becauseit's raw, it's rough and it's
iambic pentameter and a lot oflines what is it about
Shakespeare that you love?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I think he says things the best.
I think he says things he cutsright to the core of what he
wants to say.
He gets to the nub of it in asfew words as possible.
I had an English teacher whoused to say use brilliant
brevity, and I think thatShakespeare is a great example
of that.
(05:16):
He writes, you know, withiambic pentameter.
Iambic pentameter is thelanguage of the heart, and
there's something about thatthat has always really resonated
with me.
And besides, it's just some ofthe most beautiful poetry ever
written.
He's not only the greatest, oneof the greatest playwrights
ever, he's also one of thegreatest poets ever, and I think
(05:37):
that's a beautiful combination.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I feel really at home in it arguably the greatest I
mean, I don't know in this show.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
I mean everybody can quote hamlet, at least a little
part of it, oh yeah I thinkthat's a another part of the
anxiety going into it is it's sowell known that you know you
start to be or not to be, andthe audience is going to be
going along with you in theirheads, for the first couple of
lines at least.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Yeah, how do you make it your own?
I mean, like, because that'sthe thing that I'm always afraid
of is, if I do a show that I'veknown that some really iconic
people have done, you know, Iget so worried because I don't
want to copy them.
Obviously I want to make itmine.
So how do you make Amelie theWesley Whitson version?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
What are you doing?
Kind of different, I think.
I'm just trying to find where Iam in the play.
I'm trying to find where wesleyexists inside of hamlet and
then drawing those connectionsand trying to bring bridge the
gap between him and I.
I think, as actors, one of ourbig superpowers is that we are
individuals.
There is, you know, there isthere's only one of me, and I'm
(06:55):
trying to bring that sense ofindividuality to Hamlet, who is
such an individual to begin with.
He's, I mean, he's a brilliant,brilliant young man,
renaissance prince let's take itback a little bit further.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
You grew up here in houston, is that correct?
Yes, how did you get involvedin theater?
What was little wesley'sentrance into the theatrical
arts?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
yeah, I was doing sports for a while and it just
wasn't.
It wasn't working for me.
I was doing t-ball and I was inthe outfield picking clovers
and my mom was like we need totry something different.
So she put me in a communitytheater.
It's the country playhouse wasthe country playhouse, now it's
(07:40):
Queensberry theater out in WestHouston, and I met a woman named
Barbara Lassiter and she becameone of my first mentors and she
really helped me to find my wayas a young actor.
She saw something in me and shepushed me to go for it.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
And you went to HSVVA too.
I did.
The old location, the one inMontrose, is that right?
Yes, that's right.
Yeah, now they're downtown.
I haven't even old location,the one in Montrose, is that
right?
Yes, that's right.
Yeah, now they're downtown.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I haven't even seen the new one yet I know that new
building is gorgeous State ofthe art.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
But I miss having it here in Montrose, a few blocks
away.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Yeah, so it's a very different vibe With having them
not in the neighborhood.
Yeah, so are there any showsthat you look back particularly
proud of that you just say, wow,this was a dream world for me
and I got to do it.
King.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Lear was.
I don't know what happened, andit's just.
Sometimes that way you get theright people at the right time
with the right script and it'slike lightning in a bottle.
Something beyond us takes overand it's just, it's correct.
And I don't know.
(08:50):
That entire process was sowonderful.
I experienced King Lear incollege.
We'd worked on it one year.
We did a project called theTurbo Project and the Turbo
Project we had to put up a playin one week, so we did King Lear
.
If you put up a play in oneweek, so we did king lear.
If you can believe it in oneweek and no, I can't believe- it
.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
I know, I know it was it was absurd.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
It really was, but I was, I think, a sophomore or
junior, so I didn't grasp theplay fully at the time, or and I
was playing a messenger in it.
So I wasn't on for most of thescenes and I didn't really the
parts of it that I liked Ireally liked.
I thought the sisters in itwere so cool, these evil sisters
(09:35):
that are.
They're trying to take over thekingdom.
But it wasn't until I did itwith houston shakespeare
festival that I fell in lovewith that play.
I think it is just.
I think Hamlet's incredible,but there's something about King
Lear that is so, so special tome.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
Okay, so now here's another question for you In the
LGBTQQIP2SAA community.
Which letter represents you?
What do you identify with?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I'm gay.
Okay, when did you come out?
I came out in high school hspda, that it was a.
It was a very safe place to tocome out and that would have
been probably 2010 or 2011 thatI that I came out.
But I had boyfriends in highschool and it was never frowned
(10:23):
upon and I'm forever gratefulfor that.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
Right place, right time, obviously For you.
How do you think that identityaffects you in acting, or does
it?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
That's a great question, I think.
So I've been thinking a lotabout, like I said, where I
align with Hamlet and there'ssomething about Hamlet and the
way that he feels othered andseparated from everyone else in
the kingdom that feelsdistinctly queer to me and queer
coded and queer coded, thatsense of being you know someone
(11:07):
else and not being accepted ornobody gets you, is something
that I've really been able tolatch onto.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Well, one of the things that you said that really
resonated with me earlier is Ihad done a previous interview
with Dylan Godwin at the Alley'sResident Company and he told me
that he had this epiphany justa few seasons ago ago, that he
realized that he had to accepthimself as part of each of his
characters yeah and I havealways gotten a strong sense of
(11:32):
that from you.
When I watch you on stage, I dofeel like there's a little bit
of you in there.
So tell me about when youapproach a role and how you
weave that into it.
Do you actually consciously dothat or do you, kind of like,
try to become?
What is your process when youdo a character?
Do you separate yourselfcompletely or do you?
Are you conscious of bringingyourself to it?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I'm always conscious of bringing myself to it.
There's some people that areoutside in, and I think I'm more
inside out.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Okay, so one of the things that I've noticed is you
regularly perform at Michael'sOutposts as part of the Broadway
group, so how did you hook upwith them?
Are you guys all like a reallytight group or is it kind of
loosey-goosey?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
It's a tight friend group.
I met Regina, who is the hostof the show, in college and she
competed in a local dragcompetition called Desi's Drag
Race and it used to take placeat Michael's Outpost.
I don't know where it takesplace now, but she won the
competition and the prize forwinning the competition was a
(12:35):
drag show.
The finale was present youridea for a drag show, and her
idea was the Broadway a dragshow, and her idea was the
broadway, and I think thebroadway is houston's only
broadway drag review.
So she really cornered themarket there and it's been
(12:55):
running ever since the eighth.
The eighth year anniversary iscoming up.
It's this monday, I believe.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
Oh my gosh, yeah when I moved to houston I'm not
gonna tell what year it was, butit used to be the theater kids
all got together and did karaoke, yeah, and and I was always
like so nervous to even gobecause, yeah, these people
would kill any number they didit at guava lamp forever.
(13:23):
Yes, yeah yes, that's exactlywhat I was thinking about and I
was like I am not going up thereand doing my version of
whatever these kids look like.
They just performed this.
Yeah, oh my god.
So tell me what are some ofyour dream roles, like what's
next for you after hamlet, whereare you going or when do you
want to go?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Where do I want to go ?
I obviously would love to domore Shakespeare.
I'm very interested inspreading my wings in terms of
Shakespeare companies across thecountry and seeing what can
happen there In terms of roles.
I really, really want to playRichard II in R2.
(14:05):
But but that I don't know whenor if that'll happen in houston.
I don't know if a lot ofhistory plays get get produced
here in town, but I love thatplay so so much.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
Well, just talk to classical theater company, we'll
.
We'll slip them a little bribefor next year, or something.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I've always thought it would be really good as a
one-man show, but I would needto sit down and figure that out.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
You know, Main Street did that at one time.
It wasn't Richard II, though Ican't remember what it was, but
they turned one of them into aone-man show.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, it was Hamlet, I think.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
It was Guy Roberts.
Yeah, maybe it was that, butwow, no, that'd be great.
I'm so excited to see what youdo.
I mean, I've got my ticketsalready reserved for Hamlet and
now you're making me verynervous because you're talking
about breaking that fourth walland I think I'm sitting way too
close.
Now I'm going to be like, butjust a reminder, fourth wall's
(15:03):
adaptation of Hamlet runs attheir location in the spring
street studios from May 2ndthrough May 24th.
Wesley Whitson is going to bethe star of it.
He's going to be surrounded bywhat three other people that are
going to take on all the otherroles.
But you just play Hamlet,because that's too much of a
line load for any thing else inthe play.
So break legs.
You're such a great actor, I'veenjoyed watching you and this
(15:27):
is such a legendary role, so Icouldn't be more thrilled or
more proud that you're gonnatake this on, and with fourth
wall and kim and phil and allthis, I mean it.
Just it couldn't line up anybetter.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Thank you, brett.
Thank you so much.
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Speaker 4 (16:33):
Thank you.
This is Brett Lee again, andwe're in a book club with our
friends, and recently wediscussed this book about gay
conversion therapy.
It's called Boy Erased.
It was written in 2016 by anauthor called Gerard Conley and
that recounted his childhood ina fundamentalist Arkansas family
that enrolled him in conversiontherapy.
(16:54):
Now, what he hoped was that itwould expose ex-gay groups and
gay conversion therapy programsas lacking in compassion and
more likely to cause harm thancure anything.
And then in 2018, joel Edgerton, a filmmaker, wrote and
directed Boy Erased, which was afilm adaptation of that memoir,
(17:15):
and so it was an interestingfilm and things like that.
So we watched the movieyesterday.
We thought this would be a goodtopic to kind of talk about gay
conversion therapy.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
basically yeah, yeah, no, I I enjoyed it.
I enjoyed the book.
I enjoyed watching the movie.
They definitely followed eachother quite a bit.
The they did separate out on acouple of things and some of
them that were more pointed outin the movie were a little bit
diluted in the book.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Well, I think the movie tries to amp up the drama
and I think the book is probablymore accurate of what that
conversion therapy was like.
I mean, I think the book isabsolutely factual and to the
letter what happened to him, andI think in the movie they make
it amped up a little bit.
(18:01):
It's a little bit more dramatic.
I thought they took somelicense with that and I was like
I'm not so sure.
I would say read the book overthe movie, would you say that?
Speaker 6 (18:12):
For me, I usually enjoy the movie more than the
book, which is why I like toread the book before I see the
movie, before I read the book,before I see the movie, before I
read the book.
That way I have images in mymind of the people.
So, and this one, doing it theway that we did the movie kind
of crystallized some of theparts of the book that were a
little bit I don't want to sayambiguous, but they were diluted
(18:35):
a little bit, such as in theend when she asked the therapist
what are your credentials?
I mean, that was a standoutmoment in the movie, but in the
book it was kind of glossed overa little bit.
I thought I did get it, you doget it, but just not to the same
.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
it didn't have the same punch in a book you have
gerard's point of view right andyou don't really have the other
characters and anything.
In a movie, and especially amovie where you have Nicole
Kidman as the mother and RussellCrowe as the father, they're
going to give them a little bitmore moments than they would in
the book Because obviously thebook is more focused on the
boys' perspective and only theboys'.
(19:12):
So I thought it was interestingjust to kind of compare the two
.
The movie didn't do so well atthe box office.
I mean it only made like amillion bucks more than what it
cost to make, I think.
Speaker 6 (19:24):
Yeah, and I think that that's kind of common.
You know, the audience that themovie should have been made for
probably was made for.
I don't think they're going togo see it, and that's a sad
statement, because what willhappen then and we can talk
about this more in a minute butis that it sets this up to
happen again, because the peoplethat need to know this aren't
(19:45):
willing to go out and learnabout it or see what the actual
impact of those kind of thingsare.
So it's going to happen again,sadly, and for some of the
people in both the book and themovie, they don't survive it.
It's very difficult forchildren to go through that.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
But when we talk about not surviving it, they
take their life by their ownhand.
I mean, it's not like they killthem, it's they commit suicide,
because that's one of thethings is that in the therapy
they are completely telling youthat you're unfixable, you're
disgusting, you're sinful, youneed to change all of those
other things, and when you can't, you know, obviously you have
(20:22):
some deep feelings about thatand things like that, and I
think it's more accepted in theSouth.
I mean, I hate to say that, butI think that this was a
movement that really startedkind of in the Bible Belt.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (20:36):
To that length?
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Well, the actual institution is Love in Action,
which is what they talk about,and Love in Action was actually
based in Memphis, tennessee, atown that I actually was in for
college and a lot of my startedmy adult life.
So I was very aware of them andI don't know who referred me to
the program.
(20:59):
Someone in my family did.
I don't know if it was my theprogram.
Someone in my family did.
I don't know if it was myparents, if it was my
grandparents, I have no clue.
So I don't want to accuseanybody of anything like that,
but I had people come from theprogram try to get me to join it
.
I got letters constantly fromthem and different brochures and
stuff like that and invitationsto come and tour the place.
I actually did once or twiceactually go and I checked it out
(21:22):
in the real world.
So it was weird for me to readthis book because I was so aware
of love in action and theyactually had a center where you
could go and you could gothrough their programs and
things like that.
But they also had severalhouses out back where they would
have people live that were likemore problematic cases where
they actually lived dormitorystyle on the campus, if you want
(21:46):
to call it that.
I mean, it was really just acouple of houses, but they
worked in the day and then camestraight back to the love and
action area and that's.
And I think that what we bothkind of realized is it was
really a money thing.
It cost a lot of money to sendsomebody to this therapy.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
Yeah, it definitely left me.
Both the book and the movieleft me with the feeling that
the people that were runningthat organization found a way to
make money from people thatwere.
They felt that they weresuffering.
They wanted to help theirchildren.
What parent doesn't want tohelp their children?
And if there's a costassociated with that, they're
willing to pay that cost.
I just think it was takingadvantage of a situation in a
(22:25):
really ugly way.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Well, in both the book and the movie they did
mention you know, hey, we don'tthink college is right for you.
Why don't you spend a year hereand get fixed Right?
Speaker 6 (22:37):
And I'm sure the answer would be send the money
that your parents would havedone in college Instead of
paying tuition.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Right Pay for this.
Right yeah For a mirror, yeah,so.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
Now I definitely saw that in both the book and the
movie.
So, kind of stepping past thata little bit from our own
personal experience because youknow, from my perspective, I
think most gay guys growing uphave a very similar experience
to what this gentleman shared inhis story, and that is, we're
brought up in a world where weknow something that's
(23:07):
foundational to who we are isthe one thing that people don't
seem to like or be okay with,and I can't tell you the number
of times that I have said, youknow, my parents tried to fix me
.
You've said that.
They said that in both the bookand the movie.
We definitely have a sense thatpeople around us are trying to
fix us.
Now I'm going to go off topicfor a little bit, but I'll
(23:28):
circle back around.
One of the benefits that I thinkthat I had was, you know, I
wrote two books.
My first book is my parents'story.
So I tried to do the narrationof their story from their
perspective.
So I had to look at, you know,what was their history?
What was their childhood like?
You know, what were theirparents like, what was their
young adulthood, etc.
What was available in thecommunities, what were they
(23:51):
being told at the time that theywere living in Because that's
all they had.
So my parents, the medicalcommunity at that time saw being
gay as an illness.
So they went to the experts andtried to help their child,
which you know.
I have to give them credit.
Even though the path was a badone, they're being told that
that was the path to take.
(24:11):
So there were all theseprograms that I participated in
but as trying to be fixed.
They sent me to after schoolprograms, summer camps, medical
professionals, psychiatrists,all with the same goal to fix me
.
My issue with it then, even inretrospect, after I've forgiven
my parents for doing that, wasall the adults in my world at
(24:36):
that time knew what was going on, knew what the circumstance was
, and none of them were braveenough to put me on the right
path.
I was 18 years old before Ifound out.
I was not the only one like me,and that's a shame.
That's difficult to bring yourkid up like that, and your
experience is the same way, eventhough you were brought up 17
(24:57):
years later than me.
Experience is the same way eventhough you were brought up 17
years later than me and enoughhad changed.
You had more access toinformation than I did.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
You still had the same sense I did have the same
sense, but I came of age in themiddle of the aids crisis and
there was a lot of talk aboutthe morality of that situation
and there was a lot of judgmentand there was a lot of really
weird passion around it.
(25:25):
I think I knew more about it.
I think I was more worriedabout being that way.
I mean people would tell me allthese awful things that you're
going to die, you're going toget involved with drugs, you're
going to do all the same thingsthat they kind of used in this
story, in this book that thisguy wrote in 2016.
(25:47):
And, by the way, I mean GerardConley, kind of a young guy,
younger than us, and he wentthrough this immersion therapy
in the early 2000s.
So that was really interestingto me that it was so much after
you and I and you grew up in anera before when the mental
health industry defined it as anillness.
It was really in the early 70swhen they actually kind of
(26:10):
reversed course on that.
So you're going to find thatmost conversion therapies are
not mental health practitioners.
I mean, they're not allowed todo that as a mental health
person.
It is absolutely the religiouspeople, the religious providers
and that's how they get aroundit.
That's why Love in Action hadto be sponsored by a church.
That's why it had to be kind ofa church program.
(26:33):
Even that is even like, I don'tknow.
It's even more icky in a weirdway because it's attached to
your faith, I mean it's oh so.
That's kind of the hard truthof it, but it was definitely for
both of us.
Growing up, I don't think wehad a good image from anyone
around us of what the gaycommunity was or anything like
(26:55):
that.
It was very vilified.
Yeah, you had none.
Speaker 6 (26:57):
No image of it whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
I had more of a vilification of it.
Speaker 6 (27:01):
Yeah.
So one thing that the movie diddo that I really didn't get a
sense of in the book is theevolution of the parents and
their thoughts surrounding this,and that does parallel my life
as well.
You know, once a mom and dadgot past the point that their
son's gay and it's just going tobe that way.
This is not a medical issue,that this is just how you are.
(27:22):
They began their evolution andDad comparing him and I, we are
total opposites on that.
I mean, he's on the extremeheterosexual side and I'm on the
extreme homosexual side.
But he evolved to the pointwhere if you were, if you were
not his favorite, you were.
He certainly gave theappearance that you were and he
(27:45):
was very accepting of us.
He was eager for us to getmarried.
So they evolved once they gotmarried and in the movie that's
the same thing that they impliedthat the family did evolve to
where they were more accepting.
In fact, it was something thathe said.
I don't think it was in thebook or the movie very clearly,
but it was in one of his YouTubevideos that he said his mother
finally got to the point whereshe would rather have a living
(28:08):
gay son than a dead son, andthat was kind of a turning point
for her.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Well, I think that was in the book actually and it
was a breakdown in the carbecause the spoiler alert for
the book boy erased, but theclimax is a breakdown that he
has in the car and they don'treally do that in the movie.
Necessarily.
They did it a little bit, butthey didn't do it to the extreme
that they did in the book.
But that was her statementthere and I think that from
(28:36):
hearing this author talk abouthis life afterwards, it took his
parents many years to do thatand I think that's your
experience, I think that's myexperience and we could argue
that mine haven't completelycome around but in some areas,
but it is, it's a process.
It really is like a weird thingthat everybody in the LGBTQ plus
(28:56):
community that you know, yourparents, just don't understand.
They don't accept it, they wantto't understand, they don't
accept it, they want to changeit, they want to fix it, and it
takes them a long time to getokay with it and I think that
it's not an easy story to tellin two hours or in one book,
because it's a progression ofyears and it's a degrees kind of
a thing.
It's very slow.
It's a process.
Right, right, right.
Speaker 6 (29:21):
You have to grab those significant moments over a
very long period of time.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
But it's very horrible that this actually and
I think one thing that our bookclub kind of expressed was that
they thought it was kind of notaround anymore or anything like
that Love in Action actually hada famous falling out, because
the guy that led it and Gerardmentions John Smead in the book
but in the movie they actuallychanged his name.
(29:44):
He actually left theorganization, settled down with
his husband in Texas and allthis crazy stuff.
And I got a sense of that whenI saw Love in Action, that it
was being run by gay people.
A sense of that when I saw Lovein Action that it was being run
by gay people.
It was kind of like this gaypeople torturing other gay
people and trying to get them tothink that they were wrong.
(30:06):
It was very interesting in thatway.
But it just changed its name.
It's still around.
I mean, if you look at thehistory of it, it became
something else.
These conversion therapyprograms are still out there and
they're still legal.
A lot of countries have bannedit, but the US not so much.
There are some states that have, but awkwardly for us, the
(30:26):
state that we live in, no, it'sperfectly legal still.
Speaker 6 (30:29):
Yeah and it's sad because it does kind of prey on
those parents that are trying todo right by the child.
Yeah, and it's just it's sadparents that are trying to do
right by the child?
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Yeah, and it's just.
It's sad.
I think it's a question of isgay conversion therapy a natural
thing?
Would it seem natural toparents?
And I think that in some areasit would seem natural and a
natural thing to do.
Like you said, you want yourchild, you want to do right by
your child, you want to fix them, you want to take care of them,
you want to have them healthyand things like that.
I know there's that stronginstinct and none of us come
from gay parents unless we'readopted.
Speaker 6 (31:02):
You know, none of us were raised Certainly not my
generation, your generationprobably not, and generations
after that?
Speaker 4 (31:11):
some are and some are not.
We have some friends that aregay parents and I think it's
very interesting and I thinkthat the fears that people have
about gay parents are sounfounded because I mean the,
the gay parents that we knowtheir, their kids are doing fine
and, you know, not evennecessarily gay.
No, I mean, it's not like theyinfluence them to do that.
I don't think you can influencesomebody to be a certain way
(31:33):
right something that they're notright exactly.
Speaker 6 (31:35):
They're gonna be who they are and you're not gonna
make else.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Yeah which I think is the point I think that's the
point of the book and the movieBoy Erased is that you can't get
rid of this, no matter what Imean and that was the point of
Love in Action is that eventhough they tried this, even the
guys that ran it ended upadmitting that they were that
lifestyle.
Yeah, so you can't escape it.
But it was a very interestinglook at how people tried to
(32:01):
reprogram somebody to kind ofmake them think that it was
possible, to kind of thwart that.
And it was modeled afteraddiction.
Basically it was like analcoholic anonymous.
Yeah, it was a tough thing.
Speaker 6 (32:14):
No, I think it was good For me.
I would definitely recommendreading the book and watching
the movie.
If you don't want to read thebook because it is a long book,
just watch the movie.
You'll pretty much get the samemessage.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
We get the same message, but I think the book is
a little bit more truthful asfar as the things that happen.
Yes, yeah, yeah, I think themovie takes it up a notch.
I think they fictionalized someof it.
Speaker 6 (32:42):
And some of the things happen out of order when
they were from the book, but notso much so that it changed the
message or any of that, it justmade it more interesting, I
think.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Well, I think the book was hard because it was
non-linear, it wasn't done byoccurrences, it kind of left
things for you to discover as itwent through and it revealed
things over time that hadhappened in the past, that
affected the present or what wasgoing on.
That was interesting.
But the movie kind of took amore conventional timeline and
kind of just straightforwardlykind of told it with some
(33:07):
flashbacks and things like thatto fill in gaps and things like
that.
But it was interesting for thatreason.
But one of the things that Ithought was interesting about
the movie is they have a verypopular gay singer.
Troy Savan plays one of thelove and action people and then
flee from the red hot chilipeppers, which was huge.
When I was growing up we talkedabout music on our last episode
(33:30):
.
He was huge and he's in thething movie.
I'm like why are all thesesingers in here?
And Nicole Kidman and RussellCrowe oh my gosh, Can you
imagine?
Speaker 6 (33:40):
having them play your parents.
That's a little surreal.
They did have photos at the endof the actual family and they
did okay.
So Nicole Kidman was much morebeautiful than the mother.
Not that the mother wasn'tpretty, she was pretty in a very
southern sort of way.
Russell Crowe looked exactlylike the father.
Yeah, poor.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Russell Crowe yeah, he definitely took on that whole
.
Look yeah.
Speaker 6 (34:02):
I thought it was an odd look, but then when I saw
the actual pilot I thought, okay, they got what they went for
All right.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
Well, boy Erased by Gerard Connolly.
And then, of course, the filmby Joel Edgerton, and actually
Joel Edgerton adapted it anddirected it, so it was a very
important thing for him to do.
I'm curious about why hethought that that was such a big
mission for him to do that, butit's kind of a neat adaptation
of the book, yes, so definitelyworth checking out, definitely
(34:27):
worth seeing if you want tounderstand a little bit more
about conversion therapy andwhat that was like.
I hope it's not as popular asit was back then.
I think that back when I wascoming of age it was really
popular and I know for you itwas the therapy which had to
have been just even worse it was.
Speaker 6 (34:46):
I mean, there were so many other pieces of that that
were just bad, but it wasn'tlike this for sure.
Fortunately, my parentscouldn't afford that, so it was
an expensive program.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
I can tell you that.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Well, that's our thoughts on Boy Erased.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
This is KPFT 90.1 FM Houston, 89.5 FM Galveston, 91.9
FM Huntsville, and worldwide onthe internet at kpftorg the
night is long and the path isdark.
(35:24):
Look to the sky for one place.
The dark will come.
This is Queer Voices.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
Vincent Victoria is a playwright, he's a director,
he's a filmmaker, he's an actor.
He's also a fashion icon, bythe way, who has been producing
work here in the Houstoncommunity for at least the last
10 years, probably more.
He's written scripts fortheatrical productions, he's got
a film company, and all ofthese works strive to bring
(36:04):
historical figures of the blackcommunity alive in plays and
movies.
He has tackled subjects such asHattie McDaniels, lena Horne,
eartha Kitt, the Supremes,prince Rick James, even
surprising figures such as blackfashion designer Patrick Kelly,
and even Trump January 6thprotester Ashley Babbitt, who
died during the riot that day.
It's obvious Vincent has notopic that is taboo.
(36:24):
Nothing's held back.
Vincent Victoria, what an honorto get to talk to you.
I mean, come on Well, thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Thank you, brandon.
It's an honor to be talking toyou back again, because we have
a theatrical history.
We do, I would say, about eightor nine years now.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
It does.
I've been following you andI've always said that you are
one of my favorite companies inHouston that a lot of people I
don't think know about.
You're certainly strong in yourcommunity and you get a lot of
what I call true communitytheater.
You really are addressing yourcommunity, you're using your
community as actors and you arewriting for them.
(37:02):
But I think you're much biggerthan that.
I think that if everybody goton board the Vince Victoria
train, that we would all beentertained and enlightened and
all these other things, cause Ithink you're one of the best
producers in Houston and yourwork is so prolific.
So, first up, let's just talkabout what you've got coming up
here in May.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
What have you got coming to?
Speaker 4 (37:23):
the Midtown Arts Theater.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
So from May 2nd through May 11th, I have what
I'm calling my DevaliciousProject, which is a series of
three short one-act playswritten by me, and the first one
is called Ella to Maryland andit's about friendship between
Ella Fitzgerald and MarilynMonroe, and it's a topic that
(37:47):
I've always wanted to writeabout, because I love Marilyn
Monroe even more so than EllaFitzgerald.
Marilyn Monroe was one of myfavorite movie stars growing up,
so this is a way to honor herand my love of her work and her
and her work.
The second show is called theNew Girl and it's about the
Supremes after Diana Ross left.
(38:08):
So that's what it talks aboutthe conflicts that Jean Terrell
felt about joining the Supremes.
And the third show is calledB-Day, and it's about the fan of
Beyonce.
So three different eras thatI'm tackling here.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
Yeah we're going from all the way before, all the way
to now.
It's a derry on all the wayback to Ella Fitzgerald.
But yeah, a lot of stuff comingup and you also have a movie
that you're working on right now.
Is that a?
Speaker 3 (38:35):
case.
It's called Eight Notes toHeaven.
It's about the alleged rivalrybetween Prince and Rick James.
It was a play 2023, but I'veadapted it for the screen and
I've added a few more thingsthat weren't in the play and
just added a few more surprisesthat I couldn't do on film.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
I'm sorry that I couldn't do on stage that I'm
adding to the film.
Yeah, yeah, and I saw the play,so I know what we're in for.
The movies are always a littlebit of a different animal,
because you obviously can openthem up, you can do some
different things and things likethat.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
And you can use AI that I can't use on stage, yeah
a lot of it.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
Yeah, now, how did all of this start?
I've always wondered what wasthe genesis of you writing plays
, making films.
How did you get started in this?
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Writing plays really was an accident for me.
Really, my first love isperforming.
Honestly, that's what I would.
If I could do anything, itwould be perform, but this is
out of necessity, honestly.
But I found that I have astronger voice as a writer than
I do as a performer.
So that's how writing cameabout.
(39:47):
I was living in New York in theearly 2000s and I decided to
come home and write because itwas cheaper, for sure, and this
is home, so I decided to buildmy base here as a writer.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
That's how it came about that is crazy and you
really have a little company ofperformers.
You've got a lot of people thatyou kind of call on regularly.
I almost look at you guys as atroupe that you produce these
plays and you write them, andthey're quite often about
historical figures, Women of thepast.
Basically, I always look at itas like there's a lot of divas
(40:23):
in there.
There's a lot of divas in there.
You even had a divas ball atone point.
That's right.
The Billie Holidays, the LenaHorns, the Diana Rosses I mean
all of these are the kit.
What is it about these blackwomen of the past that makes you
want to say, hey, let's make ashow about them.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Well, those are the women that I idolized growing up
.
So that's the honest truthabout it.
Those women, the entertainersthat fascinated me as a kid.
If my mother wanted to punishme, she would punish me by
taking the television away fromme.
That's enough punishment.
(40:59):
I would be miserable withoutlooking at the television and
those stars on television.
So I've always had a loveaffair with great female
entertainers of the past Somemales too, now, don't get me
wrong but predominantly femalesthat I write about and I'm
inspired by.
Sometimes I'll get inspired bya male entertainer, and
(41:20):
sometimes I force myself towrite about a male because I
find myself like, well, they'retired of hearing about these
women, so I need to write abouta male.
Because I find myself, well,they're tired of hearing about
these women, so I need to writeabout a man sometimes.
So, but but you?
Know that's that's how.
That's how I got started rightfalling in love with these
people, because I grew up withthem on television and that was
my entertainment growing upabout being an only child you
(41:43):
know, we had that in common.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
I didn't know, know that I was an only child too.
So there you are.
But do you feel like thesevoices from the past?
What do you think that theyhave to say to the present?
Because I always feel like yourplays kind of bring a little
bit of that into the mix.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
Well, I always tell people when I write bread that I
sleep with these characters asI write.
I go to bed with them with witha book by my bed, I listen, I'm
listening to an interview withthem as I go to sleep.
So I try to capture theiressence when I'm, when I'm
writing, and I and I try to betrue to how I feel that they
(42:18):
would, would talk and I wouldtry to get dialogue.
That I think is true to theirpersonalities.
What I think they're trying tosay is they're still relevant
that's my phone Still relevantin today's society.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
Well, it's interesting because you really
do.
You bring this history aliveand I know that a lot of the
actors you work with are a lotof them.
Let's face it, they're youngerthan us.
They probably don't know aboutthese people.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
They don't A lot of them don't and it's surprising
me.
It surprises me and it'sshocking to me and it kind of
disappoints me in a way.
So that's why I think it's myduty to let them know about
these people of the past.
It really is.
It's so important for them toknow what they went through and
the things that they needed toknow, because the performers
(43:06):
today have it much easier thanthose performers did.
You know performers today, youknow they can create a TikTok
video and they're famous.
These stars had to know how tosing, dance, act and really do
these things well, and I just,you know, just put on an
internet video, you know.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
Well, and then in the case of somebody like Hedy
McDaniels or, good gosh, whoelse I mean, there's a lot of
them that you have they facesegregation, they face racism,
they face this kind of thingwhere the industry wasn't even
open to them.
Right, I mean, they were likeugh, you know.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
But they stuck to it because they knew this is what
they were supposed to do.
They knew that's what theirgift was and they went into it
knowing the cons against them.
But they stuck to it and theymade a name for themselves.
Speaker 4 (43:59):
Yeah, one of the things that was driving me crazy
, you did a whole thing aboutJosephine Baker which I thought
was just amazing.
I mean, I learned so much whenI come to your shows.
It's one of the reasons why Ialways make a point of coming,
because it makes me learn somuch more about these people
than what I just would know onthe surface.
Certainly, I grew up as fans ofsome of them, but a lot of them
.
Their history eludes mesometimes and I'm like, oh well,
(44:20):
I didn't know.
Oh, this is kind of interesting.
You know Eartha Kitt.
I don't think anybody reallyrealized how much she really
went against the government.
I mean, my gosh, this is true.
That whole incident with LadyBird Johnson.
She actually was outspoken atone of her events and then it
just caused all kinds of chaos.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
She was blacklisted after that for about a decade in
this country.
She was totally blacklisted,she, for about a decade in this
country.
She was totally black, so shecouldn't get work in the United
States.
She did work in Europe, ofcourse, but after 1968, until
Timbuktu came out in 1978, shewas really a person known in the
United States really.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
Yeah, this is amazing to see all of the things that
these women have gone through,all the things that this
community has gone through andsupported and things like that.
But one of the things I thesewomen have gone through, all the
things that this community'sgone through and supported and
things like that.
But one of the things I alwaysnotice about you and your plays
is that your plays always feltlike films, because they were
very quick, moving, they hadshort scenes and they moved from
location to location and then Inoticed you drifted kind of
into film right starting makingfilm, and I always wonder do you
(45:20):
like one over the other rightnow, or is there one that you
prefer?
Speaker 3 (45:24):
I prefer making films , but I enjoy performing in
plays better.
So, yeah, I like the process ofputting a film together.
I love all of that and actuallyfilms came out of necessity as
well.
During COVID I got a grant todo Black Sheree as a play, but
(45:51):
because when COVID hit they saidyou could adapt the performance
that you want to do to anothermedium if you had to.
So I adapted that to a film andI've gone on on stopping film
ever since then.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
Well, and for the listeners or readers, black
Cherie obviously was about thefirst Black pen-up publication,
but it wasn't called BlackCherie, it was called Duke, yes,
duke.
Thank you for reminding me ofthat one that was a big.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Not many people have heard of that.
It's a rare, very rare magazine, very obscure magazine.
It only lasted six issues, sonobody really has heard of that.
I just happened to find outabout it while I was reading a
small little article in a bookabout the 1950s and it talks
about the guy who founded it.
So that's how I learned aboutit.
Speaker 4 (46:42):
It was an amazing story and, again, something from
history that I probablywouldn't have known if I hadn't
seen your shows and things likethat, or your film, black Surrey
, and it's just amazing how muchyou weave from the past into
the present.
It almost feels like that'syour focus and would you say
that that is what you work onthe most.
How do you approach these ideas?
Speaker 3 (47:05):
I mean, do you just kind of say all right, I want to
take something historical.
Honestly, Brett, when I firststarted writing, I was trying to
be a popular writer and dothings that had a more urban
feel to it, because that's whateverybody was doing, that's what
people were writing about.
But that was not really what Iwanted to do, because I wrote a
(47:27):
show called Auntie Shamika,woman of the Ghetto, and it's
about it's a parody of AuntieMaine and but it wasn't
fulfilling to me as a writer,even though I think it is a good
work and I think, since peopleknow me as a historical writer
now, I think I am going to bringthat show back one day.
But history is what I love andwhat I like writing about and I
(47:49):
think I am a full expert on thissubject.
I didn't study it in an academicsetting but I studied it so
much as a child that I can youknow these things, I can rattle
off the top of my head aboutthese people as a child.
That I can, you know thesethings, I can rattle off the top
of my head about these people.
So I do have I think that is askill and a mark that I have
cornered, because I don't thinka lot of black theaters are
(48:11):
doing these type of shows that Ido.
I think I have this is my ownniche that nobody else has
really cornered yet except forme.
Speaker 4 (48:19):
It's interesting when I contrast you with the other
companies in town and of courseyou have to get props to the
ensemble theater.
They do amazing work but theyreally do have their lane.
I mean, they really do havewhat they produce and it's great
.
But yours is definitelycentered around a very specific
kind of thing and I've alwaysappreciated the contrast of
(48:40):
those two working together.
It's a great example of how youcan have addressing a similar
community but doing it with verydifferent programming and very
different plays and things likethat, and I think that that's
really admirable, that you kindof found your own way to get in
there and start something new.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
Basically, the ensemble is where actually I
started myself.
Yeah, yeah, I know we talkabout you, right right, but I
had to build my own brand.
You know, the ensemble is myown brand and I think they're,
like you said, they're verydistinct different brands.
(49:20):
So I am proud that I've beenable to do that.
That's one thing that I'm veryproud of to make my mark in the
Houston theater community.
Speaker 4 (49:30):
Well, you've definitely done that.
Give me a little background.
You mentioned studying andeducation and things like that.
Did you take performance orwriting or acting or anything
like that before you starteddoing all this?
Oh yeah, I did.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
I started right across the street from Midtown
at ACC under the tutelage of EdMuth, who just passed away a few
months ago.
Ed Muth was one of my mentors,kate Poe was one of my mentors
and Denise Lebrun.
She's a famous French chanteuse.
She passed away a couple ofyears ago.
She was my musical theaterteacher, so I learned so much
(50:07):
from them.
Harold Haynes at the EncoreTheater, so that's where I got a
lot of my training from theensemble.
Of course I had internshipsthere when I first started out,
so that's where my background isPerson performing, not in
writing at all.
I, I think I'm a, I'm a naturalwriter.
(50:28):
That's, that's a gift that Ididn't study, but I just that.
That's that's a gift that Ididn't.
I haven't said it at all, but.
But I my teacher in when I wasin high school said vincent, you
should write.
I didn't want to write, Iwanted to be on stage, but I'm
writing now and writing a lot.
You're very prolific.
I'm amazed.
You called me the playwrightlaureate of Houston, and I take
(50:55):
that I've copied that now, sothat's why I'm calling myself
now.
Speaker 4 (51:00):
Yes, no, I mean, I don't know any other.
A lot of theaters are proud whenthey get a world other a lot of
theaters are proud when theyget like a world premiere, like
(51:21):
a lot of theaters say, oh mygosh, we have this world
premiere.
And I'm thinking, well, people,you know, or they commission
something from somebody and theydon't really develop that.
You do this all the time, whichis just.
I don't think that peopleunderstand the scope of that
work, of that you are writing,you are directing, you are
producing, you are making theseproducts and I mean you just
(51:42):
take it from cradle to grave.
I mean it's you're your ownthing, you're a one man show,
you're like a virtuoso one manband and one man production
company, which is just insane.
Speaker 3 (51:50):
It's gotta be an insane amount, and sometimes I'm
acting with myself, yeah.
Speaker 4 (51:55):
And I love that when that happens, because I think
you're a great performer too.
I mean, have been some of myfavorite moments seeing you up
on the stage.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
But let me say this, brent, now I have done other
people.
I do do other work sometimes,like I've done shows, a couple
of Zora Neale Hurston shows.
I have done her, yes, some workby her, and I've done a few
other writers, but primarily myseasons are my work, primarily
they are.
But I do like doing otherpeople's work sometimes and
you've been for years at MidtownArts Center.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
How did that relationship develop?
Speaker 3 (52:31):
How did you get hooked up with them?
It was well.
When I rented the space for myfirst show, auntie Shamika, I
just started doing shows there.
At first I was just doing oneshow per year and I would write
one show per year.
Then I actually started workingat Midtown and I'm actually in
Midtown right now.
I am the office manager atMidtown.
I actually booked the space forMidtown Arts Center, so I built
(52:53):
a relationship with the ownerof Midtown and that's how that
worked.
That's how it came about.
Speaker 4 (52:58):
And a lot of people don't know Midtown Arts Center,
but it's right at the crossstreet of what is it?
It's the Branch and Holman.
Yes, exactly, it's a very greatspace, very intimate.
It's a great place to seetheater.
It's got a three-quarter thruststage in it, a black box.
I mean it's just, it'sincredible.
I definitely one of the unsunggems of Houston.
Speaker 3 (53:17):
Really A historic building.
It used to be an old grocerystore in the 1930s.
Wow, yes, and it used to be.
And right across the street isthe Heiner Theater, which was
the old Jewish synagogue.
But this was an old Jewishgrocery store in the 1930s 1940s
.
Speaker 4 (53:35):
That's amazing, and they're right across the street
from each other, which is justwild when you think about it,
because I've definitely done alot of stuff in that space,
across the street too, right?
Yeah, well, let's go into alittle bit of your personal
stuff, definitely for the QueerVoices audience LGBTQIA plus
community what do you identifywith?
Where are you on that spectrum?
Speaker 3 (53:58):
I identify myself as a gay man.
I think you're the first personI've ever really said this out
on a public space.
But that's what I identifiedmyself as and I think as I get
older you will see me being moreout for that community, more so
as I write as I get older, youknow, because it's important for
(54:20):
the communities to see somebodygiving them a voice.
But I've always writtencharacters that are LGBTQ.
I have, but I just never madeit a primary focus of who I am.
But as I get older I think Iwill start doing that even more.
Speaker 4 (54:40):
Well, you did an amazing show about Patrick Kelly
and about his relationship withBette Davis, which I don't
think a lot of people know about.
He's a fashion designer veryinfluential in the 80s, Like the
first black fashion designer tobe in France.
That was produced by the.
Help me with that.
Speaker 3 (54:56):
Jean-Baptiste, I can't think of the French name,
but he was the very first one,the very first African-American.
This was in 1986.
Right, his reign was only fiveyears old.
He only had a.
He was very prolific with hisdesigns during that time, but he
unfortunately died of AIDS onNew Year's Day in 1990.
(55:17):
So, and he didn't have asuccessor plan, so his work has
really died.
Yes, but just amazing, hedidn't have a successor plan, so
his work has really died, youknow honest.
Speaker 4 (55:26):
But just amazing, and he was a friend with Betty
Davis in her final kind of partof her career and designed all
of her stuff for him.
And I went back after I sawyour play and I watched clips of
Betty Davis on David Lettermantalking about Patrick Kelly and
how he's the only person who'sgot a design for her and I was
just like wow, this, this isamazing and she was buried in
one of his designs.
Speaker 3 (55:47):
She was buried in one of his designs
Speaker 4 (55:49):
it is so amazing when you look at this history of all
of that.
It's great, and we need peoplelike that to really focus on
that.
And one of the questions Ialways have for you is what do
you think is presenting itselfto this community now, like in
this day and age?
I mean, what is the thingthat's?
What do you think is presentingitself to this community now,
like in this day and age?
I mean what is the?
Speaker 3 (56:13):
thing that's facing kind of the black gay male right
now.
Well, so many things.
First of all, it's getting yourvoice heard and having a strong
voice.
That's the most important thing, and not hiding the voice.
That's so important for theblack gay community especially
even more so for the transgendercommunity not to be afraid and
(56:35):
to be outspoken and not to letpeople take advantage of you and
when you see wrongs, speak outagainst those wrongs.
You know, speak out againstinjustice.
People speak out against thosewrongs.
You know, speak out againstinjustice.
People speak out againstsomeone that is discriminating
against you.
So that is important to thiscommunity and for me to be out
there writing as I do.
(56:58):
I think it gives an inspirationto other young writers out
there and other performers.
Speaker 4 (57:05):
I think it really does, and the writing that you
do, I think, shows thetrailblazers of these people
that did that, and I think thatthat's the epiphany that I just
had about your work is that itreally is these voices from the
past telling us what to do today.
I mean, they're really, theseare the people that blazed this
trail the Hattie McDaniels ofthe world, the Eartha Kitts, the
Lena Horns all of these peoplejust absolutely gave us a
(57:28):
guidebook of how to get it done.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
And I just felt them.
They're here with me now.
Some of them just touched me Idon't know which one it was, but
they're here with us.
They're still here.
They really are still here.
Speaker 4 (57:46):
Yeah, I completely believe you, and they do speak
volumes to today's generation.
So I think that that's whatVincent Victoria presents and
your productions are soimportant to the city.
Certainly super excited to seewhat's coming up here in May.
Speaker 1 (58:03):
This has been Queer Voices, heard on KPFT Houston
and as a podcast available fromseveral podcasting sources.
Check our webpageQueerVoicesorg for more
information.
Queer Voices executive produceris Brian Levinka, deborah
Moncrief-Bell is co-producer,brett Cullum and David Mendoza
(58:28):
Drusman are contributors.
The News Wrap segment is partof another podcast called this
Way Out, which is produced inLos Angeles.
Speaker 5 (58:37):
Some of the material in this program has been edited
to improve clarity and runtime.
This program does not endorseany political views or animal
species.
Views, opinions andendorsements are those of the
participants and theorganizations they represent.
In case of death, pleasediscontinue use and discard
remaining products.
Speaker 1 (58:50):
For Queer Voices.
I'm Glenn Holt, Thank you.
Hello everybody, this is Queer Voices, a podcast
version of a broadcast radioshow that's been on the air in
Houston, texas, for severaldecades.
This week, brett Cullum hasthree segments.
First, an interview with localactor Wesley Whitson, who is
playing Hamlet in a productionfrom the Fourth Wall Theatre
(00:22):
Company.
The show runs at Spring StreetStudios through May 24th.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
This production is from New York City.
It's from a theater companycalled the Bedlam Theater
Company.
They're very interested aboutthe relationship between the
actor and the audience and theytry and dissolve that wall as
much as possible, and I think itworks particularly well for
Shakespeare.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Then Brett and his partner, Lee Ingalls, from their
podcast review the book BoyErased, which was also made into
a coming-of-age movie in 2018.
And Brett has a conversationwith Vincent Victoria, who for
the last 10 years has beenrunning his own theatrical
(01:04):
company that produces both playsand films in Houston.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
From May 2nd through May 11th, I have what I'm
calling my Devalicious Project,which is a series of three short
one-act plays written by me,and the first one is called Ella
to Marilyn and it's about thefriendship between Ella
Fitzgerald and Marilyn Monroe.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Queer Voices starts now.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
I'm Brett Cullum and today I have the honor of
talking to one of the biggesttalents here in Houston.
Wesley Whitson is a Houstonnative who graduated from the
University of Houston.
He was a Catherine G McGovern'sCollege of the Arts first
graduating class member.
Wesley has been on stage in somany Shakespeare shows, musicals
(01:51):
, dramas, you name it.
He got to play PrincessCordelia in King Lear, cornelius
the Doctor in Cymbeline.
Twelfth Night he was on stageat the Alley and Puck in
Midsummer Night's Dream.
But now Wesley is poised toface his biggest challenge yet,
because he is playing Hamlet inFourth Wall's production of the
(02:11):
Shakespearean classic.
So welcome to Queer Voices,wesley Whitson.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Hi Brett.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
It is so good to see you.
It's good to see you too.
Okay so, hamlet.
Okay so this is a show that 4thWall is putting up and they are
running it May 2nd through the24th.
Tell me about this particularadaptation, because it has a
little bit of a differentpedigree than what you would
normally kind of know about.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yes, so this production is from New York City
.
It's from a theater companycalled the Bedlam Theater
Company and they're veryinterested about the
relationship between the actorand the audience and they try
and dissolve that wall as muchas possible.
And I think it worksparticularly well for
Shakespeare, because so much ofShakespeare is direct address
(02:57):
and bringing the audience in.
But this production is uniquebecause there's only four actors
that are going to be playingall of the parts that are in
Hamlet.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Does this scare you?
I mean Hamlet, it's like iconic.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean I'd be a fool if Isaid it didn't scare me a
little bit.
It scares me a lot.
I mean there's a lot of room tomess it up and there's room to
fail.
I think that's one side of it.
The other side of it that I'mtrying to hang on to is there's
a long line of people who'vedone it before me and they've
(03:32):
done it well and they've done itsuccessfully and I'm hanging on
to that because I stand ontheir shoulders.
And it's such a popular playthat there's so much media
literature out there about itplay that there's so much media
literature out there about it.
I've never felt alone workingon this process.
I've had a lot of handholdingfrom the greats who've come
before me.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Well, it's crazy when you look at the pedigree of all
the actors that have done thisbefore.
And if you do it uncut, theshow is four hours long.
I mean, it's Shakespeare'slongest play and I think it's
the longest play in the Westernliterature or whatever.
So how are you guys approachingthe length to this one?
(04:14):
How long is it going to be intotal?
Do you have a feeling for thatyet?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
We're doing most of the play, which is awesome.
There are a few cuts here andthere, which is awesome.
There are a few cuts here andthere, but this is pretty much
as close to the full play as wecan get.
Our running time is going to bearound three hours with two
intermissions.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Well, Wesley Whitson, you seem to gravitate towards
Shakespeare more than any youngactor that I really know.
I mean, and I know that it justShakespeare scares me and it
scares a lot of actors, becauseit's raw, it's rough and it's
iambic pentameter and a lot oflines what is it about
Shakespeare that you love?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I think he says things the best.
I think he says things he cutsright to the core of what he
wants to say.
He gets to the nub of it in asfew words as possible.
I had an English teacher whoused to say use brilliant
brevity, and I think thatShakespeare is a great example
of that.
(05:16):
He writes, you know, withiambic pentameter.
Iambic pentameter is thelanguage of the heart, and
there's something about thatthat has always really resonated
with me.
And besides, it's just some ofthe most beautiful poetry ever
written.
He's not only the greatest, oneof the greatest playwrights
ever, he's also one of thegreatest poets ever, and I think
(05:37):
that's a beautiful combination.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I feel really at home in it arguably the greatest I
mean, I don't know in this show.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
I mean everybody can quote hamlet, at least a little
part of it, oh yeah I thinkthat's a another part of the
anxiety going into it is it's sowell known that you know you
start to be or not to be, andthe audience is going to be
going along with you in theirheads, for the first couple of
lines at least.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Yeah, how do you make it your own?
I mean, like, because that'sthe thing that I'm always afraid
of is, if I do a show that I'veknown that some really iconic
people have done, you know, Iget so worried because I don't
want to copy them.
Obviously I want to make itmine.
So how do you make Amelie theWesley Whitson version?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
What are you doing?
Kind of different, I think.
I'm just trying to find where Iam in the play.
I'm trying to find where wesleyexists inside of hamlet and
then drawing those connectionsand trying to bring bridge the
gap between him and I.
I think, as actors, one of ourbig superpowers is that we are
individuals.
There is, you know, there isthere's only one of me, and I'm
(06:55):
trying to bring that sense ofindividuality to Hamlet, who is
such an individual to begin with.
He's, I mean, he's a brilliant,brilliant young man,
renaissance prince let's take itback a little bit further.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
You grew up here in houston, is that correct?
Yes, how did you get involvedin theater?
What was little wesley'sentrance into the theatrical
arts?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
yeah, I was doing sports for a while and it just
wasn't.
It wasn't working for me.
I was doing t-ball and I was inthe outfield picking clovers
and my mom was like we need totry something different.
So she put me in a communitytheater.
It's the country playhouse wasthe country playhouse, now it's
(07:40):
Queensberry theater out in WestHouston, and I met a woman named
Barbara Lassiter and she becameone of my first mentors and she
really helped me to find my wayas a young actor.
She saw something in me and shepushed me to go for it.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
And you went to HSVVA too.
I did.
The old location, the one inMontrose, is that right?
Yes, that's right.
Yeah, now they're downtown.
I haven't even old location,the one in Montrose, is that
right?
Yes, that's right.
Yeah, now they're downtown.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I haven't even seen the new one yet I know that new
building is gorgeous State ofthe art.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
But I miss having it here in Montrose, a few blocks
away.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Yeah, so it's a very different vibe With having them
not in the neighborhood.
Yeah, so are there any showsthat you look back particularly
proud of that you just say, wow,this was a dream world for me
and I got to do it.
King.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Lear was.
I don't know what happened, andit's just.
Sometimes that way you get theright people at the right time
with the right script and it'slike lightning in a bottle.
Something beyond us takes overand it's just, it's correct.
And I don't know.
(08:50):
That entire process was sowonderful.
I experienced King Lear incollege.
We'd worked on it one year.
We did a project called theTurbo Project and the Turbo
Project we had to put up a playin one week, so we did King Lear
.
If you put up a play in oneweek, so we did king lear.
If you can believe it in oneweek and no, I can't believe- it
.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
I know, I know it was it was absurd.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
It really was, but I was, I think, a sophomore or
junior, so I didn't grasp theplay fully at the time, or and I
was playing a messenger in it.
So I wasn't on for most of thescenes and I didn't really the
parts of it that I liked Ireally liked.
I thought the sisters in itwere so cool, these evil sisters
(09:35):
that are.
They're trying to take over thekingdom.
But it wasn't until I did itwith houston shakespeare
festival that I fell in lovewith that play.
I think it is just.
I think Hamlet's incredible,but there's something about King
Lear that is so, so special tome.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
Okay, so now here's another question for you In the
LGBTQQIP2SAA community.
Which letter represents you?
What do you identify with?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I'm gay.
Okay, when did you come out?
I came out in high school hspda, that it was a.
It was a very safe place to tocome out and that would have
been probably 2010 or 2011 thatI that I came out.
But I had boyfriends in highschool and it was never frowned
(10:23):
upon and I'm forever gratefulfor that.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
Right place, right time, obviously For you.
How do you think that identityaffects you in acting, or does
it?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
That's a great question, I think.
So I've been thinking a lotabout, like I said, where I
align with Hamlet and there'ssomething about Hamlet and the
way that he feels othered andseparated from everyone else in
the kingdom that feelsdistinctly queer to me and queer
coded and queer coded, thatsense of being you know someone
(11:07):
else and not being accepted ornobody gets you, is something
that I've really been able tolatch onto.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Well, one of the things that you said that really
resonated with me earlier is Ihad done a previous interview
with Dylan Godwin at the Alley'sResident Company and he told me
that he had this epiphany justa few seasons ago ago, that he
realized that he had to accepthimself as part of each of his
characters yeah and I havealways gotten a strong sense of
(11:32):
that from you.
When I watch you on stage, I dofeel like there's a little bit
of you in there.
So tell me about when youapproach a role and how you
weave that into it.
Do you actually consciously dothat or do you, kind of like,
try to become?
What is your process when youdo a character?
Do you separate yourselfcompletely or do you?
Are you conscious of bringingyourself to it?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I'm always conscious of bringing myself to it.
There's some people that areoutside in, and I think I'm more
inside out.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Okay, so one of the things that I've noticed is you
regularly perform at Michael'sOutposts as part of the Broadway
group, so how did you hook upwith them?
Are you guys all like a reallytight group or is it kind of
loosey-goosey?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
It's a tight friend group.
I met Regina, who is the hostof the show, in college and she
competed in a local dragcompetition called Desi's Drag
Race and it used to take placeat Michael's Outpost.
I don't know where it takesplace now, but she won the
competition and the prize forwinning the competition was a
(12:35):
drag show.
The finale was present youridea for a drag show, and her
idea was the Broadway a dragshow, and her idea was the
broadway, and I think thebroadway is houston's only
broadway drag review.
So she really cornered themarket there and it's been
(12:55):
running ever since the eighth.
The eighth year anniversary iscoming up.
It's this monday, I believe.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
Oh my gosh, yeah when I moved to houston I'm not
gonna tell what year it was, butit used to be the theater kids
all got together and did karaoke, yeah, and and I was always
like so nervous to even gobecause, yeah, these people
would kill any number they didit at guava lamp forever.
(13:23):
Yes, yeah yes, that's exactlywhat I was thinking about and I
was like I am not going up thereand doing my version of
whatever these kids look like.
They just performed this.
Yeah, oh my god.
So tell me what are some ofyour dream roles, like what's
next for you after hamlet, whereare you going or when do you
want to go?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Where do I want to go ?
I obviously would love to domore Shakespeare.
I'm very interested inspreading my wings in terms of
Shakespeare companies across thecountry and seeing what can
happen there In terms of roles.
I really, really want to playRichard II in R2.
(14:05):
But but that I don't know whenor if that'll happen in houston.
I don't know if a lot ofhistory plays get get produced
here in town, but I love thatplay so so much.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
Well, just talk to classical theater company, we'll
.
We'll slip them a little bribefor next year, or something.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I've always thought it would be really good as a
one-man show, but I would needto sit down and figure that out.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
You know, Main Street did that at one time.
It wasn't Richard II, though Ican't remember what it was, but
they turned one of them into aone-man show.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, it was Hamlet, I think.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
It was Guy Roberts.
Yeah, maybe it was that, butwow, no, that'd be great.
I'm so excited to see what youdo.
I mean, I've got my ticketsalready reserved for Hamlet and
now you're making me verynervous because you're talking
about breaking that fourth walland I think I'm sitting way too
close.
Now I'm going to be like, butjust a reminder, fourth wall's
(15:03):
adaptation of Hamlet runs attheir location in the spring
street studios from May 2ndthrough May 24th.
Wesley Whitson is going to bethe star of it.
He's going to be surrounded bywhat three other people that are
going to take on all the otherroles.
But you just play Hamlet,because that's too much of a
line load for any thing else inthe play.
So break legs.
You're such a great actor, I'veenjoyed watching you and this
(15:27):
is such a legendary role, so Icouldn't be more thrilled or
more proud that you're gonnatake this on, and with fourth
wall and kim and phil and allthis, I mean it.
Just it couldn't line up anybetter.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Thank you, brett.
Thank you so much.
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(16:14):
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Speaker 4 (16:33):
Thank you.
This is Brett Lee again, andwe're in a book club with our
friends, and recently wediscussed this book about gay
conversion therapy.
It's called Boy Erased.
It was written in 2016 by anauthor called Gerard Conley and
that recounted his childhood ina fundamentalist Arkansas family
that enrolled him in conversiontherapy.
(16:54):
Now, what he hoped was that itwould expose ex-gay groups and
gay conversion therapy programsas lacking in compassion and
more likely to cause harm thancure anything.
And then in 2018, joel Edgerton, a filmmaker, wrote and
directed Boy Erased, which was afilm adaptation of that memoir,
(17:15):
and so it was an interestingfilm and things like that.
So we watched the movieyesterday.
We thought this would be a goodtopic to kind of talk about gay
conversion therapy.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
basically yeah, yeah, no, I I enjoyed it.
I enjoyed the book.
I enjoyed watching the movie.
They definitely followed eachother quite a bit.
The they did separate out on acouple of things and some of
them that were more pointed outin the movie were a little bit
diluted in the book.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Well, I think the movie tries to amp up the drama
and I think the book is probablymore accurate of what that
conversion therapy was like.
I mean, I think the book isabsolutely factual and to the
letter what happened to him, andI think in the movie they make
it amped up a little bit.
(18:01):
It's a little bit more dramatic.
I thought they took somelicense with that and I was like
I'm not so sure.
I would say read the book overthe movie, would you say that?
Speaker 6 (18:12):
For me, I usually enjoy the movie more than the
book, which is why I like toread the book before I see the
movie, before I read the book,before I see the movie, before I
read the book.
That way I have images in mymind of the people.
So, and this one, doing it theway that we did the movie kind
of crystallized some of theparts of the book that were a
little bit I don't want to sayambiguous, but they were diluted
(18:35):
a little bit, such as in theend when she asked the therapist
what are your credentials?
I mean, that was a standoutmoment in the movie, but in the
book it was kind of glossed overa little bit.
I thought I did get it, you doget it, but just not to the same
.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
it didn't have the same punch in a book you have
gerard's point of view right andyou don't really have the other
characters and anything.
In a movie, and especially amovie where you have Nicole
Kidman as the mother and RussellCrowe as the father, they're
going to give them a little bitmore moments than they would in
the book Because obviously thebook is more focused on the
boys' perspective and only theboys'.
(19:12):
So I thought it was interestingjust to kind of compare the two
.
The movie didn't do so well atthe box office.
I mean it only made like amillion bucks more than what it
cost to make, I think.
Speaker 6 (19:24):
Yeah, and I think that that's kind of common.
You know, the audience that themovie should have been made for
probably was made for.
I don't think they're going togo see it, and that's a sad
statement, because what willhappen then and we can talk
about this more in a minute butis that it sets this up to
happen again, because the peoplethat need to know this aren't
(19:45):
willing to go out and learnabout it or see what the actual
impact of those kind of thingsare.
So it's going to happen again,sadly, and for some of the
people in both the book and themovie, they don't survive it.
It's very difficult forchildren to go through that.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
But when we talk about not surviving it, they
take their life by their ownhand.
I mean, it's not like they killthem, it's they commit suicide,
because that's one of thethings is that in the therapy
they are completely telling youthat you're unfixable, you're
disgusting, you're sinful, youneed to change all of those
other things, and when you can't, you know, obviously you have
(20:22):
some deep feelings about thatand things like that, and I
think it's more accepted in theSouth.
I mean, I hate to say that, butI think that this was a
movement that really startedkind of in the Bible Belt.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (20:36):
To that length?
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Well, the actual institution is Love in Action,
which is what they talk about,and Love in Action was actually
based in Memphis, tennessee, atown that I actually was in for
college and a lot of my startedmy adult life.
So I was very aware of them andI don't know who referred me to
the program.
(20:59):
Someone in my family did.
I don't know if it was my theprogram.
Someone in my family did.
I don't know if it was myparents, if it was my
grandparents, I have no clue.
So I don't want to accuseanybody of anything like that,
but I had people come from theprogram try to get me to join it
.
I got letters constantly fromthem and different brochures and
stuff like that and invitationsto come and tour the place.
I actually did once or twiceactually go and I checked it out
(21:22):
in the real world.
So it was weird for me to readthis book because I was so aware
of love in action and theyactually had a center where you
could go and you could gothrough their programs and
things like that.
But they also had severalhouses out back where they would
have people live that were likemore problematic cases where
they actually lived dormitorystyle on the campus, if you want
(21:46):
to call it that.
I mean, it was really just acouple of houses, but they
worked in the day and then camestraight back to the love and
action area and that's.
And I think that what we bothkind of realized is it was
really a money thing.
It cost a lot of money to sendsomebody to this therapy.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
Yeah, it definitely left me.
Both the book and the movieleft me with the feeling that
the people that were runningthat organization found a way to
make money from people thatwere.
They felt that they weresuffering.
They wanted to help theirchildren.
What parent doesn't want tohelp their children?
And if there's a costassociated with that, they're
willing to pay that cost.
I just think it was takingadvantage of a situation in a
(22:25):
really ugly way.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Well, in both the book and the movie they did
mention you know, hey, we don'tthink college is right for you.
Why don't you spend a year hereand get fixed Right?
Speaker 6 (22:37):
And I'm sure the answer would be send the money
that your parents would havedone in college Instead of
paying tuition.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Right Pay for this.
Right yeah For a mirror, yeah,so.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
Now I definitely saw that in both the book and the
movie.
So, kind of stepping past thata little bit from our own
personal experience because youknow, from my perspective, I
think most gay guys growing uphave a very similar experience
to what this gentleman shared inhis story, and that is, we're
brought up in a world where weknow something that's
(23:07):
foundational to who we are isthe one thing that people don't
seem to like or be okay with,and I can't tell you the number
of times that I have said, youknow, my parents tried to fix me
.
You've said that.
They said that in both the bookand the movie.
We definitely have a sense thatpeople around us are trying to
fix us.
Now I'm going to go off topicfor a little bit, but I'll
(23:28):
circle back around.
One of the benefits that I thinkthat I had was, you know, I
wrote two books.
My first book is my parents'story.
So I tried to do the narrationof their story from their
perspective.
So I had to look at, you know,what was their history?
What was their childhood like?
You know, what were theirparents like, what was their
young adulthood, etc.
What was available in thecommunities, what were they
(23:51):
being told at the time that theywere living in Because that's
all they had.
So my parents, the medicalcommunity at that time saw being
gay as an illness.
So they went to the experts andtried to help their child,
which you know.
I have to give them credit.
Even though the path was a badone, they're being told that
that was the path to take.
(24:11):
So there were all theseprograms that I participated in
but as trying to be fixed.
They sent me to after schoolprograms, summer camps, medical
professionals, psychiatrists,all with the same goal to fix me
.
My issue with it then, even inretrospect, after I've forgiven
my parents for doing that, wasall the adults in my world at
(24:36):
that time knew what was going on, knew what the circumstance was
, and none of them were braveenough to put me on the right
path.
I was 18 years old before Ifound out.
I was not the only one like me,and that's a shame.
That's difficult to bring yourkid up like that, and your
experience is the same way, eventhough you were brought up 17
(24:57):
years later than me.
Experience is the same way eventhough you were brought up 17
years later than me and enoughhad changed.
You had more access toinformation than I did.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
You still had the same sense I did have the same
sense, but I came of age in themiddle of the aids crisis and
there was a lot of talk aboutthe morality of that situation
and there was a lot of judgmentand there was a lot of really
weird passion around it.
(25:25):
I think I knew more about it.
I think I was more worriedabout being that way.
I mean people would tell me allthese awful things that you're
going to die, you're going toget involved with drugs, you're
going to do all the same thingsthat they kind of used in this
story, in this book that thisguy wrote in 2016.
(25:47):
And, by the way, I mean GerardConley, kind of a young guy,
younger than us, and he wentthrough this immersion therapy
in the early 2000s.
So that was really interestingto me that it was so much after
you and I and you grew up in anera before when the mental
health industry defined it as anillness.
It was really in the early 70swhen they actually kind of
(26:10):
reversed course on that.
So you're going to find thatmost conversion therapies are
not mental health practitioners.
I mean, they're not allowed todo that as a mental health
person.
It is absolutely the religiouspeople, the religious providers
and that's how they get aroundit.
That's why Love in Action hadto be sponsored by a church.
That's why it had to be kind ofa church program.
(26:33):
Even that is even like, I don'tknow.
It's even more icky in a weirdway because it's attached to
your faith, I mean it's oh so.
That's kind of the hard truthof it, but it was definitely for
both of us.
Growing up, I don't think wehad a good image from anyone
around us of what the gaycommunity was or anything like
(26:55):
that.
It was very vilified.
Yeah, you had none.
Speaker 6 (26:57):
No image of it whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
I had more of a vilification of it.
Speaker 6 (27:01):
Yeah.
So one thing that the movie diddo that I really didn't get a
sense of in the book is theevolution of the parents and
their thoughts surrounding this,and that does parallel my life
as well.
You know, once a mom and dadgot past the point that their
son's gay and it's just going tobe that way.
This is not a medical issue,that this is just how you are.
(27:22):
They began their evolution andDad comparing him and I, we are
total opposites on that.
I mean, he's on the extremeheterosexual side and I'm on the
extreme homosexual side.
But he evolved to the pointwhere if you were, if you were
not his favorite, you were.
He certainly gave theappearance that you were and he
(27:45):
was very accepting of us.
He was eager for us to getmarried.
So they evolved once they gotmarried and in the movie that's
the same thing that they impliedthat the family did evolve to
where they were more accepting.
In fact, it was something thathe said.
I don't think it was in thebook or the movie very clearly,
but it was in one of his YouTubevideos that he said his mother
finally got to the point whereshe would rather have a living
(28:08):
gay son than a dead son, andthat was kind of a turning point
for her.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Well, I think that was in the book actually and it
was a breakdown in the carbecause the spoiler alert for
the book boy erased, but theclimax is a breakdown that he
has in the car and they don'treally do that in the movie.
Necessarily.
They did it a little bit, butthey didn't do it to the extreme
that they did in the book.
But that was her statementthere and I think that from
(28:36):
hearing this author talk abouthis life afterwards, it took his
parents many years to do thatand I think that's your
experience, I think that's myexperience and we could argue
that mine haven't completelycome around but in some areas,
but it is, it's a process.
It really is like a weird thingthat everybody in the LGBTQ plus
(28:56):
community that you know, yourparents, just don't understand.
They don't accept it, they wantto't understand, they don't
accept it, they want to changeit, they want to fix it, and it
takes them a long time to getokay with it and I think that
it's not an easy story to tellin two hours or in one book,
because it's a progression ofyears and it's a degrees kind of
a thing.
It's very slow.
It's a process.
Right, right, right.
Speaker 6 (29:21):
You have to grab those significant moments over a
very long period of time.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
But it's very horrible that this actually and
I think one thing that our bookclub kind of expressed was that
they thought it was kind of notaround anymore or anything like
that Love in Action actually hada famous falling out, because
the guy that led it and Gerardmentions John Smead in the book
but in the movie they actuallychanged his name.
(29:44):
He actually left theorganization, settled down with
his husband in Texas and allthis crazy stuff.
And I got a sense of that whenI saw Love in Action, that it
was being run by gay people.
A sense of that when I saw Lovein Action that it was being run
by gay people.
It was kind of like this gaypeople torturing other gay
people and trying to get them tothink that they were wrong.
(30:06):
It was very interesting in thatway.
But it just changed its name.
It's still around.
I mean, if you look at thehistory of it, it became
something else.
These conversion therapyprograms are still out there and
they're still legal.
A lot of countries have bannedit, but the US not so much.
There are some states that have, but awkwardly for us, the
(30:26):
state that we live in, no, it'sperfectly legal still.
Speaker 6 (30:29):
Yeah and it's sad because it does kind of prey on
those parents that are trying todo right by the child.
Yeah, and it's just it's sadparents that are trying to do
right by the child?
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Yeah, and it's just.
It's sad.
I think it's a question of isgay conversion therapy a natural
thing?
Would it seem natural toparents?
And I think that in some areasit would seem natural and a
natural thing to do.
Like you said, you want yourchild, you want to do right by
your child, you want to fix them, you want to take care of them,
you want to have them healthyand things like that.
I know there's that stronginstinct and none of us come
from gay parents unless we'readopted.
Speaker 6 (31:02):
You know, none of us were raised Certainly not my
generation, your generationprobably not, and generations
after that?
Speaker 4 (31:11):
some are and some are not.
We have some friends that aregay parents and I think it's
very interesting and I thinkthat the fears that people have
about gay parents are sounfounded because I mean the,
the gay parents that we knowtheir, their kids are doing fine
and, you know, not evennecessarily gay.
No, I mean, it's not like theyinfluence them to do that.
I don't think you can influencesomebody to be a certain way
(31:33):
right something that they're notright exactly.
Speaker 6 (31:35):
They're gonna be who they are and you're not gonna
make else.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Yeah which I think is the point I think that's the
point of the book and the movieBoy Erased is that you can't get
rid of this, no matter what Imean and that was the point of
Love in Action is that eventhough they tried this, even the
guys that ran it ended upadmitting that they were that
lifestyle.
Yeah, so you can't escape it.
But it was a very interestinglook at how people tried to
(32:01):
reprogram somebody to kind ofmake them think that it was
possible, to kind of thwart that.
And it was modeled afteraddiction.
Basically it was like analcoholic anonymous.
Yeah, it was a tough thing.
Speaker 6 (32:14):
No, I think it was good For me.
I would definitely recommendreading the book and watching
the movie.
If you don't want to read thebook because it is a long book,
just watch the movie.
You'll pretty much get the samemessage.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
We get the same message, but I think the book is
a little bit more truthful asfar as the things that happen.
Yes, yeah, yeah, I think themovie takes it up a notch.
I think they fictionalized someof it.
Speaker 6 (32:42):
And some of the things happen out of order when
they were from the book, but notso much so that it changed the
message or any of that, it justmade it more interesting, I
think.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Well, I think the book was hard because it was
non-linear, it wasn't done byoccurrences, it kind of left
things for you to discover as itwent through and it revealed
things over time that hadhappened in the past, that
affected the present or what wasgoing on.
That was interesting.
But the movie kind of took amore conventional timeline and
kind of just straightforwardlykind of told it with some
(33:07):
flashbacks and things like thatto fill in gaps and things like
that.
But it was interesting for thatreason.
But one of the things that Ithought was interesting about
the movie is they have a verypopular gay singer.
Troy Savan plays one of thelove and action people and then
flee from the red hot chilipeppers, which was huge.
When I was growing up we talkedabout music on our last episode
(33:30):
.
He was huge and he's in thething movie.
I'm like why are all thesesingers in here?
And Nicole Kidman and RussellCrowe oh my gosh, Can you
imagine?
Speaker 6 (33:40):
having them play your parents.
That's a little surreal.
They did have photos at the endof the actual family and they
did okay.
So Nicole Kidman was much morebeautiful than the mother.
Not that the mother wasn'tpretty, she was pretty in a very
southern sort of way.
Russell Crowe looked exactlylike the father.
Yeah, poor.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Russell Crowe yeah, he definitely took on that whole
.
Look yeah.
Speaker 6 (34:02):
I thought it was an odd look, but then when I saw
the actual pilot I thought, okay, they got what they went for
All right.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
Well, boy Erased by Gerard Connolly.
And then, of course, the filmby Joel Edgerton, and actually
Joel Edgerton adapted it anddirected it, so it was a very
important thing for him to do.
I'm curious about why hethought that that was such a big
mission for him to do that, butit's kind of a neat adaptation
of the book, yes, so definitelyworth checking out, definitely
(34:27):
worth seeing if you want tounderstand a little bit more
about conversion therapy andwhat that was like.
I hope it's not as popular asit was back then.
I think that back when I wascoming of age it was really
popular and I know for you itwas the therapy which had to
have been just even worse it was.
Speaker 6 (34:46):
I mean, there were so many other pieces of that that
were just bad, but it wasn'tlike this for sure.
Fortunately, my parentscouldn't afford that, so it was
an expensive program.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
I can tell you that.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Well, that's our thoughts on Boy Erased.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
This is KPFT 90.1 FM Houston, 89.5 FM Galveston, 91.9
FM Huntsville, and worldwide onthe internet at kpftorg the
night is long and the path isdark.
(35:24):
Look to the sky for one place.
The dark will come.
This is Queer Voices.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
Vincent Victoria is a playwright, he's a director,
he's a filmmaker, he's an actor.
He's also a fashion icon, bythe way, who has been producing
work here in the Houstoncommunity for at least the last
10 years, probably more.
He's written scripts fortheatrical productions, he's got
a film company, and all ofthese works strive to bring
(36:04):
historical figures of the blackcommunity alive in plays and
movies.
He has tackled subjects such asHattie McDaniels, lena Horne,
eartha Kitt, the Supremes,prince Rick James, even
surprising figures such as blackfashion designer Patrick Kelly,
and even Trump January 6thprotester Ashley Babbitt, who
died during the riot that day.
It's obvious Vincent has notopic that is taboo.
(36:24):
Nothing's held back.
Vincent Victoria, what an honorto get to talk to you.
I mean, come on Well, thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Thank you, brandon.
It's an honor to be talking toyou back again, because we have
a theatrical history.
We do, I would say, about eightor nine years now.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
It does.
I've been following you andI've always said that you are
one of my favorite companies inHouston that a lot of people I
don't think know about.
You're certainly strong in yourcommunity and you get a lot of
what I call true communitytheater.
You really are addressing yourcommunity, you're using your
community as actors and you arewriting for them.
(37:02):
But I think you're much biggerthan that.
I think that if everybody goton board the Vince Victoria
train, that we would all beentertained and enlightened and
all these other things, cause Ithink you're one of the best
producers in Houston and yourwork is so prolific.
So, first up, let's just talkabout what you've got coming up
here in May.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
What have you got coming to?
Speaker 4 (37:23):
the Midtown Arts Theater.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
So from May 2nd through May 11th, I have what
I'm calling my DevaliciousProject, which is a series of
three short one-act playswritten by me, and the first one
is called Ella to Maryland andit's about friendship between
Ella Fitzgerald and MarilynMonroe, and it's a topic that
(37:47):
I've always wanted to writeabout, because I love Marilyn
Monroe even more so than EllaFitzgerald.
Marilyn Monroe was one of myfavorite movie stars growing up,
so this is a way to honor herand my love of her work and her
and her work.
The second show is called theNew Girl and it's about the
Supremes after Diana Ross left.
(38:08):
So that's what it talks aboutthe conflicts that Jean Terrell
felt about joining the Supremes.
And the third show is calledB-Day, and it's about the fan of
Beyonce.
So three different eras thatI'm tackling here.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
Yeah we're going from all the way before, all the way
to now.
It's a derry on all the wayback to Ella Fitzgerald.
But yeah, a lot of stuff comingup and you also have a movie
that you're working on right now.
Is that a?
Speaker 3 (38:35):
case.
It's called Eight Notes toHeaven.
It's about the alleged rivalrybetween Prince and Rick James.
It was a play 2023, but I'veadapted it for the screen and
I've added a few more thingsthat weren't in the play and
just added a few more surprisesthat I couldn't do on film.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
I'm sorry that I couldn't do on stage that I'm
adding to the film.
Yeah, yeah, and I saw the play,so I know what we're in for.
The movies are always a littlebit of a different animal,
because you obviously can openthem up, you can do some
different things and things likethat.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
And you can use AI that I can't use on stage, yeah
a lot of it.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
Yeah, now, how did all of this start?
I've always wondered what wasthe genesis of you writing plays
, making films.
How did you get started in this?
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Writing plays really was an accident for me.
Really, my first love isperforming.
Honestly, that's what I would.
If I could do anything, itwould be perform, but this is
out of necessity, honestly.
But I found that I have astronger voice as a writer than
I do as a performer.
So that's how writing cameabout.
(39:47):
I was living in New York in theearly 2000s and I decided to
come home and write because itwas cheaper, for sure, and this
is home, so I decided to buildmy base here as a writer.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
That's how it came about that is crazy and you
really have a little company ofperformers.
You've got a lot of people thatyou kind of call on regularly.
I almost look at you guys as atroupe that you produce these
plays and you write them, andthey're quite often about
historical figures, Women of thepast.
Basically, I always look at itas like there's a lot of divas
(40:23):
in there.
There's a lot of divas in there.
You even had a divas ball atone point.
That's right.
The Billie Holidays, the LenaHorns, the Diana Rosses I mean
all of these are the kit.
What is it about these blackwomen of the past that makes you
want to say, hey, let's make ashow about them.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Well, those are the women that I idolized growing up
.
So that's the honest truthabout it.
Those women, the entertainersthat fascinated me as a kid.
If my mother wanted to punishme, she would punish me by
taking the television away fromme.
That's enough punishment.
(40:59):
I would be miserable withoutlooking at the television and
those stars on television.
So I've always had a loveaffair with great female
entertainers of the past Somemales too, now, don't get me
wrong but predominantly femalesthat I write about and I'm
inspired by.
Sometimes I'll get inspired bya male entertainer, and
(41:20):
sometimes I force myself towrite about a male because I
find myself like, well, they'retired of hearing about these
women, so I need to write abouta male.
Because I find myself, well,they're tired of hearing about
these women, so I need to writeabout a man sometimes.
So, but but you?
Know that's that's how.
That's how I got started rightfalling in love with these
people, because I grew up withthem on television and that was
my entertainment growing upabout being an only child you
(41:43):
know, we had that in common.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
I didn't know, know that I was an only child too.
So there you are.
But do you feel like thesevoices from the past?
What do you think that theyhave to say to the present?
Because I always feel like yourplays kind of bring a little
bit of that into the mix.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
Well, I always tell people when I write bread that I
sleep with these characters asI write.
I go to bed with them with witha book by my bed, I listen, I'm
listening to an interview withthem as I go to sleep.
So I try to capture theiressence when I'm, when I'm
writing, and I and I try to betrue to how I feel that they
(42:18):
would, would talk and I wouldtry to get dialogue.
That I think is true to theirpersonalities.
What I think they're trying tosay is they're still relevant
that's my phone Still relevantin today's society.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
Well, it's interesting because you really
do.
You bring this history aliveand I know that a lot of the
actors you work with are a lotof them.
Let's face it, they're youngerthan us.
They probably don't know aboutthese people.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
They don't A lot of them don't and it's surprising
me.
It surprises me and it'sshocking to me and it kind of
disappoints me in a way.
So that's why I think it's myduty to let them know about
these people of the past.
It really is.
It's so important for them toknow what they went through and
the things that they needed toknow, because the performers
(43:06):
today have it much easier thanthose performers did.
You know performers today, youknow they can create a TikTok
video and they're famous.
These stars had to know how tosing, dance, act and really do
these things well, and I just,you know, just put on an
internet video, you know.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
Well, and then in the case of somebody like Hedy
McDaniels or, good gosh, whoelse I mean, there's a lot of
them that you have they facesegregation, they face racism,
they face this kind of thingwhere the industry wasn't even
open to them.
Right, I mean, they were likeugh, you know.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
But they stuck to it because they knew this is what
they were supposed to do.
They knew that's what theirgift was and they went into it
knowing the cons against them.
But they stuck to it and theymade a name for themselves.
Speaker 4 (43:59):
Yeah, one of the things that was driving me crazy
, you did a whole thing aboutJosephine Baker which I thought
was just amazing.
I mean, I learned so much whenI come to your shows.
It's one of the reasons why Ialways make a point of coming,
because it makes me learn somuch more about these people
than what I just would know onthe surface.
Certainly, I grew up as fans ofsome of them, but a lot of them
.
Their history eludes mesometimes and I'm like, oh well,
(44:20):
I didn't know.
Oh, this is kind of interesting.
You know Eartha Kitt.
I don't think anybody reallyrealized how much she really
went against the government.
I mean, my gosh, this is true.
That whole incident with LadyBird Johnson.
She actually was outspoken atone of her events and then it
just caused all kinds of chaos.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
She was blacklisted after that for about a decade in
this country.
She was totally blacklisted,she, for about a decade in this
country.
She was totally black, so shecouldn't get work in the United
States.
She did work in Europe, ofcourse, but after 1968, until
Timbuktu came out in 1978, shewas really a person known in the
United States really.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
Yeah, this is amazing to see all of the things that
these women have gone through,all the things that this
community has gone through andsupported and things like that.
But one of the things I thesewomen have gone through, all the
things that this community'sgone through and supported and
things like that.
But one of the things I alwaysnotice about you and your plays
is that your plays always feltlike films, because they were
very quick, moving, they hadshort scenes and they moved from
location to location and then Inoticed you drifted kind of
into film right starting makingfilm, and I always wonder do you
(45:20):
like one over the other rightnow, or is there one that you
prefer?
Speaker 3 (45:24):
I prefer making films , but I enjoy performing in
plays better.
So, yeah, I like the process ofputting a film together.
I love all of that and actuallyfilms came out of necessity as
well.
During COVID I got a grant todo Black Sheree as a play, but
(45:51):
because when COVID hit they saidyou could adapt the performance
that you want to do to anothermedium if you had to.
So I adapted that to a film andI've gone on on stopping film
ever since then.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
Well, and for the listeners or readers, black
Cherie obviously was about thefirst Black pen-up publication,
but it wasn't called BlackCherie, it was called Duke, yes,
duke.
Thank you for reminding me ofthat one that was a big.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Not many people have heard of that.
It's a rare, very rare magazine, very obscure magazine.
It only lasted six issues, sonobody really has heard of that.
I just happened to find outabout it while I was reading a
small little article in a bookabout the 1950s and it talks
about the guy who founded it.
So that's how I learned aboutit.
Speaker 4 (46:42):
It was an amazing story and, again, something from
history that I probablywouldn't have known if I hadn't
seen your shows and things likethat, or your film, black Surrey
, and it's just amazing how muchyou weave from the past into
the present.
It almost feels like that'syour focus and would you say
that that is what you work onthe most.
How do you approach these ideas?
Speaker 3 (47:05):
I mean, do you just kind of say all right, I want to
take something historical.
Honestly, Brett, when I firststarted writing, I was trying to
be a popular writer and dothings that had a more urban
feel to it, because that's whateverybody was doing, that's what
people were writing about.
But that was not really what Iwanted to do, because I wrote a
(47:27):
show called Auntie Shamika,woman of the Ghetto, and it's
about it's a parody of AuntieMaine and but it wasn't
fulfilling to me as a writer,even though I think it is a good
work and I think, since peopleknow me as a historical writer
now, I think I am going to bringthat show back one day.
But history is what I love andwhat I like writing about and I
(47:49):
think I am a full expert on thissubject.
I didn't study it in an academicsetting but I studied it so
much as a child that I can youknow these things, I can rattle
off the top of my head aboutthese people as a child.
That I can, you know thesethings, I can rattle off the top
of my head about these people.
So I do have I think that is askill and a mark that I have
cornered, because I don't thinka lot of black theaters are
(48:11):
doing these type of shows that Ido.
I think I have this is my ownniche that nobody else has
really cornered yet except forme.
Speaker 4 (48:19):
It's interesting when I contrast you with the other
companies in town and of courseyou have to get props to the
ensemble theater.
They do amazing work but theyreally do have their lane.
I mean, they really do havewhat they produce and it's great
.
But yours is definitelycentered around a very specific
kind of thing and I've alwaysappreciated the contrast of
(48:40):
those two working together.
It's a great example of how youcan have addressing a similar
community but doing it with verydifferent programming and very
different plays and things likethat, and I think that that's
really admirable, that you kindof found your own way to get in
there and start something new.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
Basically, the ensemble is where actually I
started myself.
Yeah, yeah, I know we talkabout you, right right, but I
had to build my own brand.
You know, the ensemble is myown brand and I think they're,
like you said, they're verydistinct different brands.
(49:20):
So I am proud that I've beenable to do that.
That's one thing that I'm veryproud of to make my mark in the
Houston theater community.
Speaker 4 (49:30):
Well, you've definitely done that.
Give me a little background.
You mentioned studying andeducation and things like that.
Did you take performance orwriting or acting or anything
like that before you starteddoing all this?
Oh yeah, I did.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
I started right across the street from Midtown
at ACC under the tutelage of EdMuth, who just passed away a few
months ago.
Ed Muth was one of my mentors,kate Poe was one of my mentors
and Denise Lebrun.
She's a famous French chanteuse.
She passed away a couple ofyears ago.
She was my musical theaterteacher, so I learned so much
(50:07):
from them.
Harold Haynes at the EncoreTheater, so that's where I got a
lot of my training from theensemble.
Of course I had internshipsthere when I first started out,
so that's where my background isPerson performing, not in
writing at all.
I, I think I'm a, I'm a naturalwriter.
(50:28):
That's, that's a gift that Ididn't study, but I just that.
That's that's a gift that Ididn't.
I haven't said it at all, but.
But I my teacher in when I wasin high school said vincent, you
should write.
I didn't want to write, Iwanted to be on stage, but I'm
writing now and writing a lot.
You're very prolific.
I'm amazed.
You called me the playwrightlaureate of Houston, and I take
(50:55):
that I've copied that now, sothat's why I'm calling myself
now.
Speaker 4 (51:00):
Yes, no, I mean, I don't know any other.
A lot of theaters are proud whenthey get a world other a lot of
theaters are proud when theyget like a world premiere, like
(51:21):
a lot of theaters say, oh mygosh, we have this world
premiere.
And I'm thinking, well, people,you know, or they commission
something from somebody and theydon't really develop that.
You do this all the time, whichis just.
I don't think that peopleunderstand the scope of that
work, of that you are writing,you are directing, you are
producing, you are making theseproducts and I mean you just
(51:42):
take it from cradle to grave.
I mean it's you're your ownthing, you're a one man show,
you're like a virtuoso one manband and one man production
company, which is just insane.
Speaker 3 (51:50):
It's gotta be an insane amount, and sometimes I'm
acting with myself, yeah.
Speaker 4 (51:55):
And I love that when that happens, because I think
you're a great performer too.
I mean, have been some of myfavorite moments seeing you up
on the stage.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
But let me say this, brent, now I have done other
people.
I do do other work sometimes,like I've done shows, a couple
of Zora Neale Hurston shows.
I have done her, yes, some workby her, and I've done a few
other writers, but primarily myseasons are my work, primarily
they are.
But I do like doing otherpeople's work sometimes and
you've been for years at MidtownArts Center.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
How did that relationship develop?
Speaker 3 (52:31):
How did you get hooked up with them?
It was well.
When I rented the space for myfirst show, auntie Shamika, I
just started doing shows there.
At first I was just doing oneshow per year and I would write
one show per year.
Then I actually started workingat Midtown and I'm actually in
Midtown right now.
I am the office manager atMidtown.
I actually booked the space forMidtown Arts Center, so I built
(52:53):
a relationship with the ownerof Midtown and that's how that
worked.
That's how it came about.
Speaker 4 (52:58):
And a lot of people don't know Midtown Arts Center,
but it's right at the crossstreet of what is it?
It's the Branch and Holman.
Yes, exactly, it's a very greatspace, very intimate.
It's a great place to seetheater.
It's got a three-quarter thruststage in it, a black box.
I mean it's just, it'sincredible.
I definitely one of the unsunggems of Houston.
Speaker 3 (53:17):
Really A historic building.
It used to be an old grocerystore in the 1930s.
Wow, yes, and it used to be.
And right across the street isthe Heiner Theater, which was
the old Jewish synagogue.
But this was an old Jewishgrocery store in the 1930s 1940s
.
Speaker 4 (53:35):
That's amazing, and they're right across the street
from each other, which is justwild when you think about it,
because I've definitely done alot of stuff in that space,
across the street too, right?
Yeah, well, let's go into alittle bit of your personal
stuff, definitely for the QueerVoices audience LGBTQIA plus
community what do you identifywith?
Where are you on that spectrum?
Speaker 3 (53:58):
I identify myself as a gay man.
I think you're the first personI've ever really said this out
on a public space.
But that's what I identifiedmyself as and I think as I get
older you will see me being moreout for that community, more so
as I write as I get older, youknow, because it's important for
(54:20):
the communities to see somebodygiving them a voice.
But I've always writtencharacters that are LGBTQ.
I have, but I just never madeit a primary focus of who I am.
But as I get older I think Iwill start doing that even more.
Speaker 4 (54:40):
Well, you did an amazing show about Patrick Kelly
and about his relationship withBette Davis, which I don't
think a lot of people know about.
He's a fashion designer veryinfluential in the 80s, Like the
first black fashion designer tobe in France.
That was produced by the.
Help me with that.
Speaker 3 (54:56):
Jean-Baptiste, I can't think of the French name,
but he was the very first one,the very first African-American.
This was in 1986.
Right, his reign was only fiveyears old.
He only had a.
He was very prolific with hisdesigns during that time, but he
unfortunately died of AIDS onNew Year's Day in 1990.
(55:17):
So, and he didn't have asuccessor plan, so his work has
really died.
Yes, but just amazing, hedidn't have a successor plan, so
his work has really died, youknow honest.
Speaker 4 (55:26):
But just amazing, and he was a friend with Betty
Davis in her final kind of partof her career and designed all
of her stuff for him.
And I went back after I sawyour play and I watched clips of
Betty Davis on David Lettermantalking about Patrick Kelly and
how he's the only person who'sgot a design for her and I was
just like wow, this, this isamazing and she was buried in
one of his designs.
Speaker 3 (55:47):
She was buried in one of his designs
Speaker 4 (55:49):
it is so amazing when you look at this history of all
of that.
It's great, and we need peoplelike that to really focus on
that.
And one of the questions Ialways have for you is what do
you think is presenting itselfto this community now, like in
this day and age?
I mean, what is the thingthat's?
What do you think is presentingitself to this community now,
like in this day and age?
I mean what is the?
Speaker 3 (56:13):
thing that's facing kind of the black gay male right
now.
Well, so many things.
First of all, it's getting yourvoice heard and having a strong
voice.
That's the most important thing, and not hiding the voice.
That's so important for theblack gay community especially
even more so for the transgendercommunity not to be afraid and
(56:35):
to be outspoken and not to letpeople take advantage of you and
when you see wrongs, speak outagainst those wrongs.
You know, speak out againstinjustice.
People speak out against thosewrongs.
You know, speak out againstinjustice.
People speak out againstsomeone that is discriminating
against you.
So that is important to thiscommunity and for me to be out
there writing as I do.
(56:58):
I think it gives an inspirationto other young writers out
there and other performers.
Speaker 4 (57:05):
I think it really does, and the writing that you
do, I think, shows thetrailblazers of these people
that did that, and I think thatthat's the epiphany that I just
had about your work is that itreally is these voices from the
past telling us what to do today.
I mean, they're really, theseare the people that blazed this
trail the Hattie McDaniels ofthe world, the Eartha Kitts, the
Lena Horns all of these peoplejust absolutely gave us a
(57:28):
guidebook of how to get it done.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
And I just felt them.
They're here with me now.
Some of them just touched me Idon't know which one it was, but
they're here with us.
They're still here.
They really are still here.
Speaker 4 (57:46):
Yeah, I completely believe you, and they do speak
volumes to today's generation.
So I think that that's whatVincent Victoria presents and
your productions are soimportant to the city.
Certainly super excited to seewhat's coming up here in May.
Speaker 1 (58:03):
This has been Queer Voices, heard on KPFT Houston
and as a podcast available fromseveral podcasting sources.
Check our webpageQueerVoicesorg for more
information.
Queer Voices executive produceris Brian Levinka, deborah
Moncrief-Bell is co-producer,brett Cullum and David Mendoza
(58:28):
Drusman are contributors.
The News Wrap segment is partof another podcast called this
Way Out, which is produced inLos Angeles.
Speaker 5 (58:37):
Some of the material in this program has been edited
to improve clarity and runtime.
This program does not endorseany political views or animal
species.
Views, opinions andendorsements are those of the
participants and theorganizations they represent.
In case of death, pleasediscontinue use and discard
remaining products.
Speaker 1 (58:50):
For Queer Voices.
I'm Glenn Holt, Thank you.
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