March 20, 2025 • 34 mins
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Father Damian and Deacon Mike explore the paradoxical blessing that illness and suffering can bring to our spiritual lives through personal stories of vulnerability and transformation.
• Deacon Mike shares his recent experience with influenza A and how forced rest allowed him to reevaluate his priorities
• The physical dependency that comes with illness reminds us of our ultimate reliance on God
• Flannery O'Connor's story illustrates how her terminal illness focused her creative work and deepened her faith
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Theology of the Body CLE
St. John Cantius Parish
Matt Fradd's pod on Overthinking with John Eldredge
• Suffering can transform us into more compassionate ministers by giving us firsthand experience of pain
• Both hosts reflect on "second conversion" experiences triggered by painful life events
• The importance of integrating intellectual faith with emotional experience
• Leonard Cohen's wisdom: "There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in"
Visit Cathedral of St. John in Cleveland for daily confessions Monday through Friday at 6:30 AM, with Mass at 7:15 AM, and additional confessions from 11:30 AM to 12:30 PM with Mass at noon. Starting May 28th, join us for Wednesday Evenings Live featuring Vespers and live music.
Readings for the Third Sunday of Lent
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On today's Question of Faith can sickness be a gift?
Hey everybody, this is Questionof Faith.
I am Deacon Mike Hayes.
I am the Young Adult MinistryDirector here in the Diocese of
Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I am Father Damian Ferencz, the Vicar for
Evangelization and, as of April1st, the new Parochial Vicar at
the Cathedral of St John theEvangelist.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Woohoo, breaking news now.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Breaking news, baby.
Yeah, so it'll be officiallyannounced on April 1st, but I
received my letter ofappointment yesterday, on the
Feast of St Joseph, which ispretty cool.
So, if you're not aware, Iserved the diocese as the
secretary for parish life andspecial ministries for three
years and there is currently amerging of two secretariats the
(00:52):
office of catechetics andsecretary for parish life and
special ministries.
The director of catecheticalministry is going to oversee
both departments and mayeventually take on a new name.
I don't know if that's going tohappen or not, but in the
meantime, because I was relievedof that duty, I'm going to be a
(01:16):
parish priest for the firsttime since 2007.
I'm super excited.
I'll remain vicar forevangelization, so I still live
in downtown at the cathedral,still have my office on the
fifth floor, but I also get todo stuff that I think I'm pretty
good at Preaching, teaching,hearing confessions, funerals,
hospital calls, weddings thestuff that most priests, when
(01:39):
they go to the seminary, theythink that's what they're going
to be doing.
So special ministry is cool but, like the parish is where it's
at.
So I'm super excited to be back.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome yeah.
So speaking, of being back youare back, but you were out for a
while because you were sick, sotell us about it.
Sick isn't the word I mean now.
I don't generally get sick,like I'm pretty healthy.
I, you know, I take pretty goodcare of myself.
I try to maintain distance frompeople who are sick.
(02:08):
I'm, you know, I'm a slighthypochondriac, right, but I
don't know where I picked thisthing up.
But something's been goingaround and I ended up getting
influenza A.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Sounds dreadful.
That's going around becauseFather Don Oleksik had it too,
just before you did, so we'llblame him.
Yeah, it's going around becauseFather Don Oleksik had it too,
just before you did.
We'll blame him.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
It's interesting because I haven't even been near
him, so I can't even blame him.
But yeah, no, it just kind ofknocked me down for the count I
had been like coughing up a lung.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Was it all respiratory?
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Fever.
No, no, chills, oh terrible,but only slight.
Like you know, I'm never coldyou know, and so I'm sitting in
my apartment.
I'm like man, it's kind ofchilly in here, you know like
what's going on.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
And Marion's like you're never cold, you must be
sick.
And I was like, yeah, I'mfeeling something coming on, and
then so it started like as anasally kind of thing and I
thought I'd knock that out.
Usually, when I get somethinglike that, I can knock it out in
a couple of days with you knowover-the-counter stuff, you know
.
So I did that and then I seemedto be okay.
I actually took a couple ofdays off of work because I knew
(03:16):
something was coming on and thenwhich I never do- yeah, you are
very faithful, reliable.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I don't remember you ever being sick and I've known
you now for four years.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, this is the first time, I think, I've been
sick, since I've been here Morethan a day or something, yeah
the first time I ever took anysignificant time off.
that wasn't vacation, right,right, other than the death of
my mother.
Right, that's about it.
Um, but man like I, I went to,uh, the right of election
(03:49):
downtown.
I went to ocia, I went to, Icame to to work the next day on
monday.
Yeah, I went to ocia on mondaynight.
And I woke up on tuesday and Iand you and I were together and
I was like, oh man, I'm notfeeling too good.
And I told dr knight when hewas here, I was like, oh man,
I'm not feeling too good.
And I told Dr Knight, when hewas here, I was like keep your
distance from me, man, I don'tknow what's going on.
(04:09):
And after the podcast, I wentupstairs to edit it.
I finished editing it, I'mwalking down the hall and I had
forgotten something up in thestudio, yeah, and I stood by the
elevator and I cougheduncontrollably for like 30
seconds, to the point thatFrancine Castatini comes down
the hall and was like are youokay?
(04:30):
And I was like no, I am not, andso I just went home.
I had finished editing, Icalled Greg and said look, I'm
just going to go home, and thatwas the last time I was here
until today.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I was here until today.
Well, oftentimes sickness isthe absolute worst and and you
have to rest and we're bothpretty active guys and that can
be hard to do and then letsomeone else take care of you
and all that.
Um, the question of thispodcast is can can sickness be a
gift?
Can it be a blessing and notjust a curse?
And what are your thoughts onthat?
Is it too early to say, or werethere any graces that came
(05:12):
because of your sickness?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah, I think there is, I mean, I think, that number
one.
It gives you the chance to kindof slow down.
I've been burned the candle atboth ends, you know, as I like
to say, me and my five jobs.
You know there's a lot going onand this kind of gave me the
opportunity to kind of sit backa little bit and say, okay, what
(05:36):
am I really doing here?
You know, am I working too hard?
Am I doing too much?
Let me slow down and organizemy life a little bit.
You know, I'm caring for mysister who's going into nursing,
and so I got some stuff donefor her while I was home that I
probably couldn't do at any highlevel if I'm working at the
same time.
Got a parish retreat coming upright.
(05:58):
So it gave me an opportunity tokind of think about that a
little bit, but at the same timeit also gave me the opportunity
not to think about things youknow, to say, okay, I've got
some time just to rest, right,and I think I really needed to
do that, because it's just, youknow, the only thing you could
really do to knock this out isreally sleep.
Yeah, I mean it was like Islept every night off at 11.
(06:22):
Great yeah, it was really good.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Your body needs it.
I know that most of the timewhen I get sick it's because I
push myself too hard.
I wear down my immune systemand my body.
This is my body's way and mysoul's way of saying slow down,
boy, and rest.
And then maybe it's three dayswhere I'm just laying on the
(06:44):
couch or laying in bed.
And I remember last time Iwatched I think that's when I
started watching Ted Lasso- andI watched Greta Gerwig's Little
Women, but I would never watchTV during the day or in the
afternoon or lay on the couch.
But if we push ourselves toohard, our bodies and our souls
(07:06):
have a way of correcting that,and sometimes it is by getting
sick.
So it could be a great gracethat the Lord enters in in that
way and says hey, now thinkabout this.
And I can say this I've gottenbetter about taking breaks and
not feeling guilty.
So I pray in the morning, Iwork out in the afternoon.
I think you know that about me.
But the other thing that I'vebeen doing if I have talks in
(07:29):
the evening and during Lent Ihave a ton of them and I think
you're are you doing a parishmission now or something?
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I got parish retreat at the end of the month.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, and even tonight I'm starting the book
study on the bishop's pastoralletter.
So I'm going to be out for twoand a half hours this evening.
So in the afternoon we have alittle balcony over at the
Rectory Cathedral and if thesun's out I'll go out there and
just read for a half hour or 45minutes.
(07:57):
And that's not me being lazy ortaking off work, I'm actually
feeding my mind, feeding myheart, and that's good stuff for
me to do.
And something about being anAmerican particularly in this
part of the country where wedefine ourselves often by our
hard work that can get us introuble too, because we don't
(08:19):
take proper rest and then wewind up getting sick.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Was that different for you when you studied abroad?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I had a very strict writing schedule that I kept to
and because it worked, I didn'tfeel the guilt about it.
It was actually FlanneryO'Connor's writing schedule, so
she wrote every day.
She went to Mass in the morningand then wrote from 9 to noon
and that was it.
And if that's all you do withmaybe a five-minute coffee break
for three hours, that was it.
And if you, if that's all youdo with maybe a five minute
coffee break for three hours,that's exhausting.
(08:47):
That's a lot of work.
And then the rest of the day Icould read and walk and I didn't
feel bad about it.
Now there were some guys that Ilived with that they're like you
should work an eight hour day.
I'm like not if you're a writer, if you put in three solid
hours, that's enough.
That's like being a footballplayer you played a football
game and you only do that once aweek or a baseball player you
don't have to work an eighthours.
(09:08):
You don't write for eight hoursa day.
I don't know anyone who can dothat.
So I think because I had thatdiscipline built in, it worked
and because I wrote mydissertation in a pretty quick
amount of time, I didn't feelbad about it.
But sometimes maybe it's in myheart or in my head but, or some
little jab comments that you'llhear from time to time, like,
(09:31):
oh, you're just kind of layingout and reading a book, yeah,
it's called leisure and it'shealthy.
It's healthy, so I think.
And then I think if people inpositions that we have do that,
then we can model for otherpeople.
Oh, I can do that too then.
And then you don't pass on theworkaholism, because the leisure
is really important.
But I think it's something toconstantly work at.
(09:53):
And, as Aristotle would say,usually we lean to one extreme
or another.
Either we're workaholics orwe're lazy by nature.
So you have to push yourself tothe other extreme to find that
middle ground.
So if you're always working,you got to push yourself to rest
, and if you're sedentary andjust like phlegmatic and like to
sit around, you have to pushyourself to work, and then both
will find that that, that goldenmean in the middle there.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, and so, you know, our question for today was
you know, can sickness be agift?
You know, it's a shame thatsometimes we have to get sick in
order to slow things down,instead of doing this on a
regular basis.
You know, yeah, my mom was sickmost of her life.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Mine too.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, and I think one of the gifts that I got from
her was saying you know, hey,look, life is precious.
You know, like there are thingsI can't do anymore, you know,
because I'm just crippled up,you know, with rheumatoid
arthritis.
You know, like there are thingsI can't do anymore, you know,
because I'm just crippled up,you know, with rheumatoid
arthritis.
You know she couldn't move somedays and but for her it was
like an opportunity to sit andto pray.
Number one it was a big part ofher life and you know, but
number two, it was also like anopportunity for her to kind of
(11:01):
reflect back on the things thatshe had done and on the gift
that she was to so many people,and I think that was a great
comfort to her.
I don't think she would havethought about it if she wasn't
laid up as much as she was.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Being sick, too, makes you dependent on others,
and particularly dependent uponGod for help, because we human
beings, in our fallen nature,want to be so self-sufficient.
I want to take care of myself.
I don't want anyone to takecare of me.
I'm strong, I'm healthy, well,okay.
But eventually you won't be, orsomeone in your life won't be,
(11:35):
and then you'll have to dealwith that.
And so this is why there'ssomething I mean we even call it
sin sickness sometimes thatagain, flannery O'Connor says
that sin can be a good thingbecause it can lead people back
to God.
It's like, oh, I did that, butI realized, oh, I hit rock
bottom, I've got to come back,like the prodigal son.
Speaking of O'Connor, I'mheading to Georgia this weekend
(11:59):
because she'll be turning 100years old, if she was alive
today.
So there's some celebrations inSavannah on Friday and Saturday
, and then I'm heading toMilledgeville the next few days,
where she lived for the last 14years of her life.
In fact, after she finished herMFA at Iowa, her hope was to
(12:22):
live in New York City with allthe other writers and that was
the great writing community andnever have to go back to Georgia
, except maybe on a holiday tovisit her mom and what happened
was she was diagnosed with lupuswhen she was 25 years old.
That was the same disease thatkilled her dad, and so, because
of the medications, she had tobe on crutches and she needed
(12:42):
fresh air.
So she had to move back withher mother to a 500 acre farm
four miles outside of the cityof Milledgeville, on a working
dairy farm.
But that's where she wroteevery day and she was sick and
she knew that she was dying.
She knew she didn't have a lotof time and I think it was
(13:02):
because of that that she was sofocused in her craft.
She didn't waste any time.
She wrote every day from nineto noon, including Sundays,
because she was dying of lupus.
But that brought out greatnessin her, and sometimes that can
be our story too.
Because of sickness, because ofhurts, because of pains,
because of a fall in life, wecan wind up allowing God in our
(13:26):
lives in a way there because wehad nowhere else to turn.
I like to talk about it Likewhen I first had my first adult
conversion.
Like came to Christ because hewould just wooed me my senior
year of high school and I wantedI mean there was.
I loved baseball.
I love my friends, I love youknow, hanging out and art and
(13:47):
all that.
But when I found Christ, notjust as a friend but best friend
, savior, my life changed.
I'm like I'm going to give itto him.
If that means seminary, boom go.
And it was a really easydecision.
But then what I talk about as mysecond conversion was the year
before, like so, 2001,.
9-11 happened Two months later.
(14:09):
My mom died A couple monthsafter that, boston abuse scandal
, couple months after that,cleveland abuse scandal breaks.
And then that was the summerbefore I was going to be
ordained a deacon and that wasterrible and I thought marriage
would be a better option at thispoint, because why would anyone
want to be a priest?
And all these things were goingon in my heart and that was the
(14:31):
point in my life where I had,for the first time, to
completely rely upon God in mybrokenness, and it worked.
But I don't know if I wouldhave been there had it not been
for the sickness, the pain.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, yeah, Like when I was 25, so for many years I
had a college roommate namedDave.
Right, Dave was a stand-upcomic, was the funniest person I
think I've ever met in myentire life.
And all of that comedy camefrom pain, because he was dying.
You know, he died when he was25.
And I could remember, like youknow, our senior year.
(15:09):
He got pretty sick, ended up inthe hospital, had to put a
defibrillator in because hisheart just wasn't beaten, right,
you know?
And he very nearly died oursenior year and I think it kind
of woke a lot of us up as wewere heading out of college.
You know, we're like you know,what are we going to do with the
rest of our lives?
You know, and time can belimited, None of us are promised
(15:32):
tomorrow.
And at the same time, like itall forced us in some way to
take our friendship with him alot more serious.
So when he did die three yearslater, you know we didn't waste
any time with him.
We were always with that guy,you know and I think it was a
really big wake-up call for mein many ways, and it was kind of
(15:52):
the beginning, too, of like methinking about ministry just in
general.
You know it's like, okay, youknow I've got this career in
radio and it's going okay.
You know it's not going greatbut it's going all right.
And you know, at the end of theday and this is not to
denigrate anybody in the media,but at the end of the day I was
like, yeah, we did a good showtoday.
Okay, what else you got?
(16:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
yeah, it's like the deep, an infinite mystery and
not just things that can bemeasured here.
I felt the same way.
I loved baseball, but then Ithought there's more to life
than baseball.
As an 18-year-old I mean itsounds cheesy, but it wasn't my
only way I defined myself.
But as a baseball player I'mlike this isn't satisfying me.
(16:38):
I like it a lot, but no,there's more.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
There's more, even as a baseball announcer.
For me it was like yeah, okay,and people would come to the
minor league games I did for awhile and they were like, hey,
you guys do a good job at thesegames.
You're like, okay, yeah, greatthanks.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, it's just not enough.
It's not enough.
If it's just it's not enough,you know it's not enough.
If it's not god, it's neverenough.
It could be a relationship, itcould be money, it could be a
job, it could be a promotion andwhatever.
And it lasts for a little whileand then you're like gosh,
there's more.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
My heart longs, my heart longs and uh, yeah, my
friends even noticed that thethat I cared more about the
players as people than I didabout the game.
It's about broadcasting thegame on its own.
They said, wow, you really tooksome time with the high school
students, that maybe you weredoing PA announcement, for you
(17:33):
really have taken an interest inthem in some way.
And I was like, yeah, that'strue, I think you're right.
Dumb me right You're neverthinking in the background of
what could really be happeninghere you know, and so you
actually think about what'sgoing on and I found you know,
like doing retreats and thingslike that in my parish were
(17:53):
bringing me a lot more life thanproducing radio was.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yeah the more.
And yet here we are.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
It all comes back full circle regardless.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Well, and here we are , on the first day of spring.
Kayla Gill told me that thismorning.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Oh, that's right, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
But also in our Lenten season, which is the
church's way to remind us thatwe can't have eternal springtime
here.
Life is dying and it is rising,and we keep ourselves from
certain things, Like we praymore intensely during Lent.
We fast not because food is bador, you know, Instagram is bad
(18:33):
or whatever you've given up isbad, but because there's a
greater good and it makes uslong for that, you know.
And then the almsgiving too,like okay, I have these things
but I can't keep.
Anything Like love is meant tobe given away.
And so the church allows us tobe reminded.
We're made for more, and whenwe intentionally keep ourselves,
(18:54):
when we do fasting, we much,much more greatly enjoy the
feasting.
Yeah, sure, yeah, it's like therhythm of life.
I was thinking too.
I'm giving these book studies,starting tonight at the browsing
bookstore and cafe down in theGalleria.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Down in the Galleria, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
And there's a section in the bishop's new pastoral
letter where he says this.
He says have you ever noticedthat the times in our lives when
we grow the most, when we learnthe most, when we become more
of who God made us to be, arealmost always preceded by some
difficult time, some pain,sorrow, suffering, heartache or
(19:31):
loss?
And then he says that throughthose Good Friday experiences
and trust that the Lord willraise us from the dead, as he
raised Jesus on Easter Sunday,we are able to experience the
power of his resurrection in ourown lives.
And ain't that the truth?
Like if you go on a Kairosretreat or a tech retreat or the
(19:53):
Believe Land retreat ChristRenews His Parish Cursillo,
christ Renews His Parish Curcio.
Even like 12-step program,where someone's giving a lead.
Most of the time they'll takeyou through a moment in their
life that was difficult, painful, where they felt like dying.
And it's in that dying andthere really is a death to
(20:18):
something old that something newemerges.
And even in the sicknessbusiness it's like you're in the
sickness, you long for health,and then when you get the health
, you're like oh, I'm so gladI'm not sick anymore.
But in some ways and Colbertsaid this in that famous
interview about his stand-up andit was in the GQ interview
before that.
And I know that because I hadto pay $500 to GQ to use that in
my first book.
But he says it's like he callsit loving the bomb.
(20:42):
When you get to a point in yourlife where you can say I am
grateful that that happened.
Oh, I hated it, but I'm sograteful that that happened
because it allowed me to do thisand I know for myself.
My mom died a year before I wasordained.
It was the first person I wasever with when she died.
I was around death a lot thatyear because she was dying for
(21:05):
53 weeks.
She went through eightdifferent roommates at the
cancer home run by theDominicans, but I was around
death and sickness, suffering somuch that that was a great gift
as a priest, because I've neverbeen afraid to go to an
emergency room, hospice, visitsomeone in their home, and that
was a gift given to me by my mom.
Do I wish that didn't happen?
(21:27):
In some ways, yes, but I'm alsoso grateful it happened because
it gave me the depth that I havefor understanding other people
in sickness and death, andfamily members too, like if
you've never experienced thatyourself and you're up there
given some homily, you're goingto sound like that redheaded
priest at the beginning of GrandTorino who says life is
bittersweet.
(21:47):
It's bitter in the death andsweet in the resurrection.
But he'd never suffered.
He knew it all in a book.
But when he goes through theaccompaniment with Mr Kowalski
what's his name?
Dalski?
What's his name?
Dirty Harry, what's his name?
Clint Eastwood Clint Eastwood'scharacter in that film by the
end of it, when he has to buryhim, he actually knows from the
(22:10):
inside what this is like andhe's able to minister to him and
his family so well and sobeautifully.
So that's the gift, it seems tome, that's the blessing that
can come from sickness or fromsuffering that our catholic
faith offers.
And I think so many people,when it comes to sickness and
suffering, don't know what to dowith it, and a lot of times I
(22:30):
think that's why people mayleave the church.
It's like god must hate me, hemust be ignoring me, and we
don't have enough people walkingwith others through those
difficult times.
And that's the church ofaccompaniment and the church of
listening that Pope Francis istalking about.
It's not like a soft church,like we're wimpy.
It's actually that we areentering into the heart of true
(22:52):
suffering in other human beings.
That gives meaning.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
We don't have enough people who could cry with other
people.
That's the thing.
And whether that suffering isphysical or economic, even I've
walked with a lot of poor peoplein Central America and
certainly in Mexico, and seeingthat kind of suffering too, I
think changes you and it allowsyou to say, okay, am I willing
(23:17):
to kind of accompany thesepeople along the way?
Or what is it that is pushingme away from that?
You know those are the thingsthat I need to get rid of in my
life.
Those are the things that Ineed to kind of take a look at
and say, okay, why am I notwilling to walk with this person
?
You know, what am I so afraidof?
And it takes a lot to kind of,you know, push that aside and
(23:39):
then just say, okay, let meenter into this now.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
We've talked about this before and I just watched
the interview on Pints withAquinas, with Matt Fradd and
John Eldridge, who wrote Wild atHeart, and there's a clip on
there where they talk about howwe Catholic Christians,
particularly men, can grasp tochurch teaching, which is true,
(24:04):
without getting into the heartof things.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
And so it becomes an intellectual exercise that I
know the right teachings herebut but I use those teachings
somehow to keep someone else, oreven myself, distant from my
own heart and what's going onthere.
And Eldridge has this greatline where he says the mind is
(24:31):
meant to help the heart, notprotect it from.
I forget his exact line.
I'll show you the clip whereyou can share, but it's a really
beautiful way of integratingthe head and the heart.
And even someone like MattFradd, who oftentimes admits I
can get he's pretty acerbic guyat times but he talks about in
his own life when he was a youngfather he'd make his kids do
(24:53):
the night prayer with him and hewas very strict and then he
read something by some saint whosaid no, the end of the night
prayers is supposed to be ahearth and just let the kids
play and goof around, but you'repraying, it just should be a
warm place where they can feelloved.
And I thought that's pretty cooland I think that's a lot of
what's going on here.
It's the opening, it's theradical opening of the human
(25:16):
heart.
That's not opposed to churchteaching.
It's the opening, it's theradical opening of the human
heart that's not opposed tochurch teaching.
It's actually an embodiment ofit.
When you're doing it right.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yeah, but you can live up in your head all day
long.
I mean, you know, it's thething that drives me crazy all
the time.
And so I'm like, okay, if Ihave to hear of one more person
who said I came to the churchthrough intellectual, you know,
an intellectual study, mostly aphilosophy or something along
those lines.
But then when I continue tohear them talk there's no meat
on the bones.
(25:44):
You know, it's like theyhaven't experienced that in some
way.
They can go the other way too,right, you know someone who only
has experience and never putsit into church teaching.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Right and becomes all subjective and feeling.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah right, it's the uniting it's the both end, it's
the both, and that's the rightthe underlining principle of our
podcast is the both and yeah,exactly so.
Anyway, I'm glad I'm feeling alittle bit better.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I'm still coughing a little bit, as you could
probably hear yeah, and I hopeyour sickness was a gift and
blessing and it was maybe onethat you continue to uh discover
as you, and that's the otherthing about.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
I blessed my wife with the sickness too, because
now she has it.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
But about suffering and sickness.
Rarely, rarely can youappreciate it or be grateful for
it when you're in the middle ofit.
Yeah, that's right.
It's only after you've come outon the other side that you can
look back and say, oh, like Iwas thinking about the
transfiguration.
It was a gospel last week.
So Jesus takes the guys up thehill, shows them himself and his
(26:41):
glory, and they're like ah, youknow, they don't.
We talked about it last week.
But after he rose from the deadand then ascended to the father
, they're probably thinking oh,that's what he was trying to
show us there.
And it's in looking back onthings and exploring our memory
and reflecting on it that weactually come to deeper
knowledge of things.
So sometimes it's going back onour experiences and seeing oh,
(27:02):
god was at work there.
I felt like he hung me out todry and abandoned me, when in
fact he was there and, as cheesyas it sounds, it's that
footprint's poem.
And this is why Luke Brown, whoruns, what is it called Sacred
Heart Counseling?
He says that's why you find itat all the thrift stores and
garage sales, because people arelike, ah, that's actually not
(27:23):
reality.
But in fact it kind ofsummarizes Christian faith
pretty well, as cheesy as it mayseem as a magnet.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
My takeoff on that is that there's one set of
footprints where he carried you,but then there are these two
huge lines in the sand.
That's where he dragged me that.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
but then there are these two huge lines in the sand
.
That's where he dragged me.
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Not willing to go.
And he said come on, you'recoming anyway, yeah.
But yeah, it's funny, thetransfiguration stuff that you
were saying.
I had a similar take, but sortof opposite in some ways, is
that during the good times wefail to think about, you know,
the suffering moments in ourlives.
(28:00):
Sometimes we think, oh,everything's just fine, and
that's Peter.
At this transfiguration heimmediately runs right in and
says this is the greatest thingever.
Let's never leave and he's likenot even listening to what
Elijah and Moses are saying toJesus, saying no, no Jerusalem,
we have to go to Jerusalem nowand you have to die.
And he just doesn't want toeven hear it Well, that's very
(28:22):
much connected.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I'm just thinking this as you say it to when Jesus
predicts his path.
Well, he says you are the son ofGod.
Okay, you didn't get this fromyourself.
And then the next thing he saysand I'll never let this happen
to you.
And then he says get behind me,satan, because Jesus knows that
he has to suffer in order tosave us.
And Peter does not want to gothrough that suffering.
(28:43):
And it's only when Peterbetrays Jesus, not once, but
twice, three times, and he hitsrock bottom, that he becomes
totally dependent on God's mercy, that his heart is open enough
to actually receive what God hasbeen planning for him all along
, which is most of our storiesanyway.
Right, it's when you realize Iam completely dependent upon God
(29:04):
, and it's usually through greatsuffering and sickness and pain
that that happens.
It's Leonard Cohen Ring thebells that still can ring.
Forget your perfect offering.
There's a crack, a crack ineverything.
That's how the light gets in.
So, yeah, if you can find yourcracks, your brokenness, your
(29:28):
fractures, praise God, becausethat's where he wants to enter
into your life, because that'swhat he came to do to heal you
you know Amen and me and DeaconMike too, exactly.
You know who heals things.
I don't think it's briefcasemarketing.
You know Amen and me and DeaconMike too.
Exactly.
You know who heals things.
I don't think it's briefcasemarketing, but maybe it is.
Can you make it so?
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Well, I mean, they could heal If your website's
broken it needs to be healed.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
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Speaker 1 (29:50):
You need to be able to pick this thing up and say
let's make it all nice andpretty now, Come on.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah, maybe it's like it's crusty and old and you
need new life to your I lovethat word crusty to your website
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Speaker 1 (30:11):
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Speaker 2 (30:26):
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Speaker 1 (30:40):
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Speaker 1 (31:05):
All right.
Church Search Cathedral, stJohn.
Congratulations again.
Oh, thank you, lots of stuffgoing on.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah, so the cathedral is, like I think, 175
years old.
We're celebrating that thisyear Now.
It's gone under sometransformation since then.
Originally, 9th Street, east9th Street here was called Erie
Street, and you know thatbecause if you're at the
Progressive Field on the eastside of 9th, you'll see Erie
(31:39):
Street Cemetery.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
So that was the original name of the street.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
And what else can I tell you other than we have
confessions here every day,monday through Friday, 6.30 in
the morning, mass every day 7.15, and then confessions every day
, 11.30 to 12.30 in Mass everyday at noon.
Every day, 1130 to 1230 in mass, every day at noon.
(32:04):
And I am in the midst ofplanning some new event this
summer.
I think we're going to becalling it Wednesday Evenings
Live.
Every Wednesday evening fromMay 28th to the last Wednesday
of August, we'll have Vespers inthe church at 530, and then
we'll have live music on theJubilee stage.
We're preparing the luce lawnand then we're going to maybe
have a beer garden, even if wecan figure it out with legal.
(32:25):
So the bishop would like moreactivity happening at our mother
church here in downtownCleveland and part of my job as
the new parochial vicar is tosee that that happens.
So super excited about it.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
So it'll be fun.
So Cathedral St John here inCleveland and let's take a look
at the third Sunday of Lentreadings.
First reading Burning Bush thisweek.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Oh, love the Burning Bush.
So the Burning Bush, to me,presents the great both.
And, as we were talking aboutbefore, why?
Because the bush is on fire andat the same time, it's not
being consumed.
Usually, when things are onfire, they're burning up.
They're becoming less of whatthey are.
This is a great example ofGod's non-competitive love for
(33:07):
us, that when we let him in ourlife, it doesn't make us any
less than who we are.
It makes us more of who we are,and it's one of these mysteries
that shouldn't be able tohappen, but does the mystery
that Jesus is both God and manwithout being any less man, or
any less God by being both, orMary is both virgin and mother
(33:28):
at the same time.
So I absolutely love theburning bush.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
How about you?
Yeah, same, so it'll be good.
I always like the remove yourshoes.
You're standing on holy ground,but Moses doesn't even realize
where he's standing and he'sjust kind of like whoa wait a
minute.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (33:46):
But as he starts to understand, he realizes this is
the Lord that will lead themthrough the exodus and to save
his people.
So all good.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Let me just say this now because I'm going on
Flannery O'Connor pilgrimagethis weekend.
If you ever read the shortstory Parker's Back, it's about
the guy with all the tattoos.
There's a scene in the shortstory where he becomes a kind of
Moses.
There is fire and his shoesfall off.
So I won't say any more thanthat.
But if you're preparingyourself and your heart for this
(34:17):
weekend's liturgy and you sayI'd like to read some good
fiction, maybe by a Southernwoman, american Catholic, read
Parker's Back.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
There you go, flattery O'Connor Parker's Back,
we'll have this and a whole lot.
You next time.
On today's Question of Faith can sickness be a gift?
Hey everybody, this is Questionof Faith.
I am Deacon Mike Hayes.
I am the Young Adult MinistryDirector here in the Diocese of
Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I am Father Damian Ferencz, the Vicar for
Evangelization and, as of April1st, the new Parochial Vicar at
the Cathedral of St John theEvangelist.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Woohoo, breaking news now.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Breaking news, baby.
Yeah, so it'll be officiallyannounced on April 1st, but I
received my letter ofappointment yesterday, on the
Feast of St Joseph, which ispretty cool.
So, if you're not aware, Iserved the diocese as the
secretary for parish life andspecial ministries for three
years and there is currently amerging of two secretariats the
(00:52):
office of catechetics andsecretary for parish life and
special ministries.
The director of catecheticalministry is going to oversee
both departments and mayeventually take on a new name.
I don't know if that's going tohappen or not, but in the
meantime, because I was relievedof that duty, I'm going to be a
(01:16):
parish priest for the firsttime since 2007.
I'm super excited.
I'll remain vicar forevangelization, so I still live
in downtown at the cathedral,still have my office on the
fifth floor, but I also get todo stuff that I think I'm pretty
good at Preaching, teaching,hearing confessions, funerals,
hospital calls, weddings thestuff that most priests, when
(01:39):
they go to the seminary, theythink that's what they're going
to be doing.
So special ministry is cool but, like the parish is where it's
at.
So I'm super excited to be back.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome yeah.
So speaking, of being back youare back, but you were out for a
while because you were sick, sotell us about it.
Sick isn't the word I mean now.
I don't generally get sick,like I'm pretty healthy.
I, you know, I take pretty goodcare of myself.
I try to maintain distance frompeople who are sick.
(02:08):
I'm, you know, I'm a slighthypochondriac, right, but I
don't know where I picked thisthing up.
But something's been goingaround and I ended up getting
influenza A.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Sounds dreadful.
That's going around becauseFather Don Oleksik had it too,
just before you did, so we'llblame him.
Yeah, it's going around becauseFather Don Oleksik had it too,
just before you did.
We'll blame him.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
It's interesting because I haven't even been near
him, so I can't even blame him.
But yeah, no, it just kind ofknocked me down for the count I
had been like coughing up a lung.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Was it all respiratory?
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Fever.
No, no, chills, oh terrible,but only slight.
Like you know, I'm never coldyou know, and so I'm sitting in
my apartment.
I'm like man, it's kind ofchilly in here, you know like
what's going on.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
And Marion's like you're never cold, you must be
sick.
And I was like, yeah, I'mfeeling something coming on, and
then so it started like as anasally kind of thing and I
thought I'd knock that out.
Usually, when I get somethinglike that, I can knock it out in
a couple of days with you knowover-the-counter stuff, you know
.
So I did that and then I seemedto be okay.
I actually took a couple ofdays off of work because I knew
(03:16):
something was coming on and thenwhich I never do- yeah, you are
very faithful, reliable.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I don't remember you ever being sick and I've known
you now for four years.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, this is the first time, I think, I've been
sick, since I've been here Morethan a day or something, yeah
the first time I ever took anysignificant time off.
that wasn't vacation, right,right, other than the death of
my mother.
Right, that's about it.
Um, but man like I, I went to,uh, the right of election
(03:49):
downtown.
I went to ocia, I went to, Icame to to work the next day on
monday.
Yeah, I went to ocia on mondaynight.
And I woke up on tuesday and Iand you and I were together and
I was like, oh man, I'm notfeeling too good.
And I told dr knight when hewas here, I was like, oh man,
I'm not feeling too good.
And I told Dr Knight, when hewas here, I was like keep your
distance from me, man, I don'tknow what's going on.
(04:09):
And after the podcast, I wentupstairs to edit it.
I finished editing it, I'mwalking down the hall and I had
forgotten something up in thestudio, yeah, and I stood by the
elevator and I cougheduncontrollably for like 30
seconds, to the point thatFrancine Castatini comes down
the hall and was like are youokay?
(04:30):
And I was like no, I am not, andso I just went home.
I had finished editing, Icalled Greg and said look, I'm
just going to go home, and thatwas the last time I was here
until today.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I was here until today.
Well, oftentimes sickness isthe absolute worst and and you
have to rest and we're bothpretty active guys and that can
be hard to do and then letsomeone else take care of you
and all that.
Um, the question of thispodcast is can can sickness be a
gift?
Can it be a blessing and notjust a curse?
And what are your thoughts onthat?
Is it too early to say, or werethere any graces that came
(05:12):
because of your sickness?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah, I think there is, I mean, I think, that number
one.
It gives you the chance to kindof slow down.
I've been burned the candle atboth ends, you know, as I like
to say, me and my five jobs.
You know there's a lot going onand this kind of gave me the
opportunity to kind of sit backa little bit and say, okay, what
(05:36):
am I really doing here?
You know, am I working too hard?
Am I doing too much?
Let me slow down and organizemy life a little bit.
You know, I'm caring for mysister who's going into nursing,
and so I got some stuff donefor her while I was home that I
probably couldn't do at any highlevel if I'm working at the
same time.
Got a parish retreat coming upright.
(05:58):
So it gave me an opportunity tokind of think about that a
little bit, but at the same timeit also gave me the opportunity
not to think about things youknow, to say, okay, I've got
some time just to rest, right,and I think I really needed to
do that, because it's just, youknow, the only thing you could
really do to knock this out isreally sleep.
Yeah, I mean it was like Islept every night off at 11.
(06:22):
Great yeah, it was really good.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Your body needs it.
I know that most of the timewhen I get sick it's because I
push myself too hard.
I wear down my immune systemand my body.
This is my body's way and mysoul's way of saying slow down,
boy, and rest.
And then maybe it's three dayswhere I'm just laying on the
(06:44):
couch or laying in bed.
And I remember last time Iwatched I think that's when I
started watching Ted Lasso- andI watched Greta Gerwig's Little
Women, but I would never watchTV during the day or in the
afternoon or lay on the couch.
But if we push ourselves toohard, our bodies and our souls
(07:06):
have a way of correcting that,and sometimes it is by getting
sick.
So it could be a great gracethat the Lord enters in in that
way and says hey, now thinkabout this.
And I can say this I've gottenbetter about taking breaks and
not feeling guilty.
So I pray in the morning, Iwork out in the afternoon.
I think you know that about me.
But the other thing that I'vebeen doing if I have talks in
(07:29):
the evening and during Lent Ihave a ton of them and I think
you're are you doing a parishmission now or something?
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I got parish retreat at the end of the month.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, and even tonight I'm starting the book
study on the bishop's pastoralletter.
So I'm going to be out for twoand a half hours this evening.
So in the afternoon we have alittle balcony over at the
Rectory Cathedral and if thesun's out I'll go out there and
just read for a half hour or 45minutes.
(07:57):
And that's not me being lazy ortaking off work, I'm actually
feeding my mind, feeding myheart, and that's good stuff for
me to do.
And something about being anAmerican particularly in this
part of the country where wedefine ourselves often by our
hard work that can get us introuble too, because we don't
(08:19):
take proper rest and then wewind up getting sick.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Was that different for you when you studied abroad?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I had a very strict writing schedule that I kept to
and because it worked, I didn'tfeel the guilt about it.
It was actually FlanneryO'Connor's writing schedule, so
she wrote every day.
She went to Mass in the morningand then wrote from 9 to noon
and that was it.
And if that's all you do withmaybe a five-minute coffee break
for three hours, that was it.
And if you, if that's all youdo with maybe a five minute
coffee break for three hours,that's exhausting.
(08:47):
That's a lot of work.
And then the rest of the day Icould read and walk and I didn't
feel bad about it.
Now there were some guys that Ilived with that they're like you
should work an eight hour day.
I'm like not if you're a writer, if you put in three solid
hours, that's enough.
That's like being a footballplayer you played a football
game and you only do that once aweek or a baseball player you
don't have to work an eighthours.
(09:08):
You don't write for eight hoursa day.
I don't know anyone who can dothat.
So I think because I had thatdiscipline built in, it worked
and because I wrote mydissertation in a pretty quick
amount of time, I didn't feelbad about it.
But sometimes maybe it's in myheart or in my head but, or some
little jab comments that you'llhear from time to time, like,
(09:31):
oh, you're just kind of layingout and reading a book, yeah,
it's called leisure and it'shealthy.
It's healthy, so I think.
And then I think if people inpositions that we have do that,
then we can model for otherpeople.
Oh, I can do that too then.
And then you don't pass on theworkaholism, because the leisure
is really important.
But I think it's something toconstantly work at.
(09:53):
And, as Aristotle would say,usually we lean to one extreme
or another.
Either we're workaholics orwe're lazy by nature.
So you have to push yourself tothe other extreme to find that
middle ground.
So if you're always working,you got to push yourself to rest
, and if you're sedentary andjust like phlegmatic and like to
sit around, you have to pushyourself to work, and then both
will find that that, that goldenmean in the middle there.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, and so, you know, our question for today was
you know, can sickness be agift?
You know, it's a shame thatsometimes we have to get sick in
order to slow things down,instead of doing this on a
regular basis.
You know, yeah, my mom was sickmost of her life.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Mine too.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, and I think one of the gifts that I got from
her was saying you know, hey,look, life is precious.
You know, like there are thingsI can't do anymore, you know,
because I'm just crippled up,you know, with rheumatoid
arthritis.
You know, like there are thingsI can't do anymore, you know,
because I'm just crippled up,you know, with rheumatoid
arthritis.
You know she couldn't move somedays and but for her it was
like an opportunity to sit andto pray.
Number one it was a big part ofher life and you know, but
number two, it was also like anopportunity for her to kind of
(11:01):
reflect back on the things thatshe had done and on the gift
that she was to so many people,and I think that was a great
comfort to her.
I don't think she would havethought about it if she wasn't
laid up as much as she was.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Being sick, too, makes you dependent on others,
and particularly dependent uponGod for help, because we human
beings, in our fallen nature,want to be so self-sufficient.
I want to take care of myself.
I don't want anyone to takecare of me.
I'm strong, I'm healthy, well,okay.
But eventually you won't be, orsomeone in your life won't be,
(11:35):
and then you'll have to dealwith that.
And so this is why there'ssomething I mean we even call it
sin sickness sometimes thatagain, flannery O'Connor says
that sin can be a good thingbecause it can lead people back
to God.
It's like, oh, I did that, butI realized, oh, I hit rock
bottom, I've got to come back,like the prodigal son.
Speaking of O'Connor, I'mheading to Georgia this weekend
(11:59):
because she'll be turning 100years old, if she was alive
today.
So there's some celebrations inSavannah on Friday and Saturday
, and then I'm heading toMilledgeville the next few days,
where she lived for the last 14years of her life.
In fact, after she finished herMFA at Iowa, her hope was to
(12:22):
live in New York City with allthe other writers and that was
the great writing community andnever have to go back to Georgia
, except maybe on a holiday tovisit her mom and what happened
was she was diagnosed with lupuswhen she was 25 years old.
That was the same disease thatkilled her dad, and so, because
of the medications, she had tobe on crutches and she needed
(12:42):
fresh air.
So she had to move back withher mother to a 500 acre farm
four miles outside of the cityof Milledgeville, on a working
dairy farm.
But that's where she wroteevery day and she was sick and
she knew that she was dying.
She knew she didn't have a lotof time and I think it was
(13:02):
because of that that she was sofocused in her craft.
She didn't waste any time.
She wrote every day from nineto noon, including Sundays,
because she was dying of lupus.
But that brought out greatnessin her, and sometimes that can
be our story too.
Because of sickness, because ofhurts, because of pains,
because of a fall in life, wecan wind up allowing God in our
(13:26):
lives in a way there because wehad nowhere else to turn.
I like to talk about it Likewhen I first had my first adult
conversion.
Like came to Christ because hewould just wooed me my senior
year of high school and I wantedI mean there was.
I loved baseball.
I love my friends, I love youknow, hanging out and art and
(13:47):
all that.
But when I found Christ, notjust as a friend but best friend
, savior, my life changed.
I'm like I'm going to give itto him.
If that means seminary, boom go.
And it was a really easydecision.
But then what I talk about as mysecond conversion was the year
before, like so, 2001,.
9-11 happened Two months later.
(14:09):
My mom died A couple monthsafter that, boston abuse scandal
, couple months after that,cleveland abuse scandal breaks.
And then that was the summerbefore I was going to be
ordained a deacon and that wasterrible and I thought marriage
would be a better option at thispoint, because why would anyone
want to be a priest?
And all these things were goingon in my heart and that was the
(14:31):
point in my life where I had,for the first time, to
completely rely upon God in mybrokenness, and it worked.
But I don't know if I wouldhave been there had it not been
for the sickness, the pain.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, yeah, Like when I was 25, so for many years I
had a college roommate namedDave.
Right, Dave was a stand-upcomic, was the funniest person I
think I've ever met in myentire life.
And all of that comedy camefrom pain, because he was dying.
You know, he died when he was25.
And I could remember, like youknow, our senior year.
(15:09):
He got pretty sick, ended up inthe hospital, had to put a
defibrillator in because hisheart just wasn't beaten, right,
you know?
And he very nearly died oursenior year and I think it kind
of woke a lot of us up as wewere heading out of college.
You know, we're like you know,what are we going to do with the
rest of our lives?
You know, and time can belimited, None of us are promised
(15:32):
tomorrow.
And at the same time, like itall forced us in some way to
take our friendship with him alot more serious.
So when he did die three yearslater, you know we didn't waste
any time with him.
We were always with that guy,you know and I think it was a
really big wake-up call for mein many ways, and it was kind of
(15:52):
the beginning, too, of like methinking about ministry just in
general.
You know it's like, okay, youknow I've got this career in
radio and it's going okay.
You know it's not going greatbut it's going all right.
And you know, at the end of theday and this is not to
denigrate anybody in the media,but at the end of the day I was
like, yeah, we did a good showtoday.
Okay, what else you got?
(16:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
yeah, it's like the deep, an infinite mystery and
not just things that can bemeasured here.
I felt the same way.
I loved baseball, but then Ithought there's more to life
than baseball.
As an 18-year-old I mean itsounds cheesy, but it wasn't my
only way I defined myself.
But as a baseball player I'mlike this isn't satisfying me.
(16:38):
I like it a lot, but no,there's more.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
There's more, even as a baseball announcer.
For me it was like yeah, okay,and people would come to the
minor league games I did for awhile and they were like, hey,
you guys do a good job at thesegames.
You're like, okay, yeah, greatthanks.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, it's just not enough.
It's not enough.
If it's just it's not enough,you know it's not enough.
If it's not god, it's neverenough.
It could be a relationship, itcould be money, it could be a
job, it could be a promotion andwhatever.
And it lasts for a little whileand then you're like gosh,
there's more.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
My heart longs, my heart longs and uh, yeah, my
friends even noticed that thethat I cared more about the
players as people than I didabout the game.
It's about broadcasting thegame on its own.
They said, wow, you really tooksome time with the high school
students, that maybe you weredoing PA announcement, for you
(17:33):
really have taken an interest inthem in some way.
And I was like, yeah, that'strue, I think you're right.
Dumb me right You're neverthinking in the background of
what could really be happeninghere you know, and so you
actually think about what'sgoing on and I found you know,
like doing retreats and thingslike that in my parish were
(17:53):
bringing me a lot more life thanproducing radio was.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yeah the more.
And yet here we are.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
It all comes back full circle regardless.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Well, and here we are , on the first day of spring.
Kayla Gill told me that thismorning.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Oh, that's right, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
But also in our Lenten season, which is the
church's way to remind us thatwe can't have eternal springtime
here.
Life is dying and it is rising,and we keep ourselves from
certain things, Like we praymore intensely during Lent.
We fast not because food is bador, you know, Instagram is bad
(18:33):
or whatever you've given up isbad, but because there's a
greater good and it makes uslong for that, you know.
And then the almsgiving too,like okay, I have these things
but I can't keep.
Anything Like love is meant tobe given away.
And so the church allows us tobe reminded.
We're made for more, and whenwe intentionally keep ourselves,
(18:54):
when we do fasting, we much,much more greatly enjoy the
feasting.
Yeah, sure, yeah, it's like therhythm of life.
I was thinking too.
I'm giving these book studies,starting tonight at the browsing
bookstore and cafe down in theGalleria.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Down in the Galleria, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
And there's a section in the bishop's new pastoral
letter where he says this.
He says have you ever noticedthat the times in our lives when
we grow the most, when we learnthe most, when we become more
of who God made us to be, arealmost always preceded by some
difficult time, some pain,sorrow, suffering, heartache or
(19:31):
loss?
And then he says that throughthose Good Friday experiences
and trust that the Lord willraise us from the dead, as he
raised Jesus on Easter Sunday,we are able to experience the
power of his resurrection in ourown lives.
And ain't that the truth?
Like if you go on a Kairosretreat or a tech retreat or the
(19:53):
Believe Land retreat ChristRenews His Parish Cursillo,
christ Renews His Parish Curcio.
Even like 12-step program,where someone's giving a lead.
Most of the time they'll takeyou through a moment in their
life that was difficult, painful, where they felt like dying.
And it's in that dying andthere really is a death to
(20:18):
something old that something newemerges.
And even in the sicknessbusiness it's like you're in the
sickness, you long for health,and then when you get the health
, you're like oh, I'm so gladI'm not sick anymore.
But in some ways and Colbertsaid this in that famous
interview about his stand-up andit was in the GQ interview
before that.
And I know that because I hadto pay $500 to GQ to use that in
my first book.
But he says it's like he callsit loving the bomb.
(20:42):
When you get to a point in yourlife where you can say I am
grateful that that happened.
Oh, I hated it, but I'm sograteful that that happened
because it allowed me to do thisand I know for myself.
My mom died a year before I wasordained.
It was the first person I wasever with when she died.
I was around death a lot thatyear because she was dying for
(21:05):
53 weeks.
She went through eightdifferent roommates at the
cancer home run by theDominicans, but I was around
death and sickness, suffering somuch that that was a great gift
as a priest, because I've neverbeen afraid to go to an
emergency room, hospice, visitsomeone in their home, and that
was a gift given to me by my mom.
Do I wish that didn't happen?
(21:27):
In some ways, yes, but I'm alsoso grateful it happened because
it gave me the depth that I havefor understanding other people
in sickness and death, andfamily members too, like if
you've never experienced thatyourself and you're up there
given some homily, you're goingto sound like that redheaded
priest at the beginning of GrandTorino who says life is
bittersweet.
(21:47):
It's bitter in the death andsweet in the resurrection.
But he'd never suffered.
He knew it all in a book.
But when he goes through theaccompaniment with Mr Kowalski
what's his name?
Dalski?
What's his name?
Dirty Harry, what's his name?
Clint Eastwood Clint Eastwood'scharacter in that film by the
end of it, when he has to buryhim, he actually knows from the
(22:10):
inside what this is like andhe's able to minister to him and
his family so well and sobeautifully.
So that's the gift, it seems tome, that's the blessing that
can come from sickness or fromsuffering that our catholic
faith offers.
And I think so many people,when it comes to sickness and
suffering, don't know what to dowith it, and a lot of times I
(22:30):
think that's why people mayleave the church.
It's like god must hate me, hemust be ignoring me, and we
don't have enough people walkingwith others through those
difficult times.
And that's the church ofaccompaniment and the church of
listening that Pope Francis istalking about.
It's not like a soft church,like we're wimpy.
It's actually that we areentering into the heart of true
(22:52):
suffering in other human beings.
That gives meaning.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
We don't have enough people who could cry with other
people.
That's the thing.
And whether that suffering isphysical or economic, even I've
walked with a lot of poor peoplein Central America and
certainly in Mexico, and seeingthat kind of suffering too, I
think changes you and it allowsyou to say, okay, am I willing
(23:17):
to kind of accompany thesepeople along the way?
Or what is it that is pushingme away from that?
You know those are the thingsthat I need to get rid of in my
life.
Those are the things that Ineed to kind of take a look at
and say, okay, why am I notwilling to walk with this person
?
You know, what am I so afraidof?
And it takes a lot to kind of,you know, push that aside and
(23:39):
then just say, okay, let meenter into this now.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
We've talked about this before and I just watched
the interview on Pints withAquinas, with Matt Fradd and
John Eldridge, who wrote Wild atHeart, and there's a clip on
there where they talk about howwe Catholic Christians,
particularly men, can grasp tochurch teaching, which is true,
(24:04):
without getting into the heartof things.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
And so it becomes an intellectual exercise that I
know the right teachings herebut but I use those teachings
somehow to keep someone else, oreven myself, distant from my
own heart and what's going onthere.
And Eldridge has this greatline where he says the mind is
(24:31):
meant to help the heart, notprotect it from.
I forget his exact line.
I'll show you the clip whereyou can share, but it's a really
beautiful way of integratingthe head and the heart.
And even someone like MattFradd, who oftentimes admits I
can get he's pretty acerbic guyat times but he talks about in
his own life when he was a youngfather he'd make his kids do
(24:53):
the night prayer with him and hewas very strict and then he
read something by some saint whosaid no, the end of the night
prayers is supposed to be ahearth and just let the kids
play and goof around, but you'repraying, it just should be a
warm place where they can feelloved.
And I thought that's pretty cooland I think that's a lot of
what's going on here.
It's the opening, it's theradical opening of the human
(25:16):
heart.
That's not opposed to churchteaching.
It's the opening, it's theradical opening of the human
heart that's not opposed tochurch teaching.
It's actually an embodiment ofit.
When you're doing it right.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yeah, but you can live up in your head all day
long.
I mean, you know, it's thething that drives me crazy all
the time.
And so I'm like, okay, if Ihave to hear of one more person
who said I came to the churchthrough intellectual, you know,
an intellectual study, mostly aphilosophy or something along
those lines.
But then when I continue tohear them talk there's no meat
on the bones.
(25:44):
You know, it's like theyhaven't experienced that in some
way.
They can go the other way too,right, you know someone who only
has experience and never putsit into church teaching.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Right and becomes all subjective and feeling.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah right, it's the uniting it's the both end, it's
the both, and that's the rightthe underlining principle of our
podcast is the both and yeah,exactly so.
Anyway, I'm glad I'm feeling alittle bit better.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I'm still coughing a little bit, as you could
probably hear yeah, and I hopeyour sickness was a gift and
blessing and it was maybe onethat you continue to uh discover
as you, and that's the otherthing about.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
I blessed my wife with the sickness too, because
now she has it.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
But about suffering and sickness.
Rarely, rarely can youappreciate it or be grateful for
it when you're in the middle ofit.
Yeah, that's right.
It's only after you've come outon the other side that you can
look back and say, oh, like Iwas thinking about the
transfiguration.
It was a gospel last week.
So Jesus takes the guys up thehill, shows them himself and his
(26:41):
glory, and they're like ah, youknow, they don't.
We talked about it last week.
But after he rose from the deadand then ascended to the father
, they're probably thinking oh,that's what he was trying to
show us there.
And it's in looking back onthings and exploring our memory
and reflecting on it that weactually come to deeper
knowledge of things.
So sometimes it's going back onour experiences and seeing oh,
(27:02):
god was at work there.
I felt like he hung me out todry and abandoned me, when in
fact he was there and, as cheesyas it sounds, it's that
footprint's poem.
And this is why Luke Brown, whoruns, what is it called Sacred
Heart Counseling?
He says that's why you find itat all the thrift stores and
garage sales, because people arelike, ah, that's actually not
(27:23):
reality.
But in fact it kind ofsummarizes Christian faith
pretty well, as cheesy as it mayseem as a magnet.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
My takeoff on that is that there's one set of
footprints where he carried you,but then there are these two
huge lines in the sand.
That's where he dragged me that.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
but then there are these two huge lines in the sand
.
That's where he dragged me.
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Not willing to go.
And he said come on, you'recoming anyway, yeah.
But yeah, it's funny, thetransfiguration stuff that you
were saying.
I had a similar take, but sortof opposite in some ways, is
that during the good times wefail to think about, you know,
the suffering moments in ourlives.
(28:00):
Sometimes we think, oh,everything's just fine, and
that's Peter.
At this transfiguration heimmediately runs right in and
says this is the greatest thingever.
Let's never leave and he's likenot even listening to what
Elijah and Moses are saying toJesus, saying no, no Jerusalem,
we have to go to Jerusalem nowand you have to die.
And he just doesn't want toeven hear it Well, that's very
(28:22):
much connected.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I'm just thinking this as you say it to when Jesus
predicts his path.
Well, he says you are the son ofGod.
Okay, you didn't get this fromyourself.
And then the next thing he saysand I'll never let this happen
to you.
And then he says get behind me,satan, because Jesus knows that
he has to suffer in order tosave us.
And Peter does not want to gothrough that suffering.
(28:43):
And it's only when Peterbetrays Jesus, not once, but
twice, three times, and he hitsrock bottom, that he becomes
totally dependent on God's mercy, that his heart is open enough
to actually receive what God hasbeen planning for him all along
, which is most of our storiesanyway.
Right, it's when you realize Iam completely dependent upon God
(29:04):
, and it's usually through greatsuffering and sickness and pain
that that happens.
It's Leonard Cohen Ring thebells that still can ring.
Forget your perfect offering.
There's a crack, a crack ineverything.
That's how the light gets in.
So, yeah, if you can find yourcracks, your brokenness, your
(29:28):
fractures, praise God, becausethat's where he wants to enter
into your life, because that'swhat he came to do to heal you
you know Amen and me and DeaconMike too, exactly.
You know who heals things.
I don't think it's briefcasemarketing.
You know Amen and me and DeaconMike too.
Exactly.
You know who heals things.
I don't think it's briefcasemarketing, but maybe it is.
Can you make it so?
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Well, I mean, they could heal If your website's
broken it needs to be healed.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Very good.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
You need to be able to pick this thing up and say
let's make it all nice andpretty now, Come on.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah, maybe it's like it's crusty and old and you
need new life to your I lovethat word crusty to your website
, your parish website.
So briefcase marketing createsmarketing for your church or
church-based ministry thatinspires action and delivers
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Speaker 1 (30:11):
They'll clarify your message to attract the right
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Speaker 2 (30:26):
Do you need proof?
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Speaker 1 (30:40):
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Speaker 2 (30:52):
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Speaker 1 (31:05):
All right.
Church Search Cathedral, stJohn.
Congratulations again.
Oh, thank you, lots of stuffgoing on.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah, so the cathedral is, like I think, 175
years old.
We're celebrating that thisyear Now.
It's gone under sometransformation since then.
Originally, 9th Street, east9th Street here was called Erie
Street, and you know thatbecause if you're at the
Progressive Field on the eastside of 9th, you'll see Erie
(31:39):
Street Cemetery.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
So that was the original name of the street.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
And what else can I tell you other than we have
confessions here every day,monday through Friday, 6.30 in
the morning, mass every day 7.15, and then confessions every day
, 11.30 to 12.30 in Mass everyday at noon.
Every day, 1130 to 1230 in mass, every day at noon.
(32:04):
And I am in the midst ofplanning some new event this
summer.
I think we're going to becalling it Wednesday Evenings
Live.
Every Wednesday evening fromMay 28th to the last Wednesday
of August, we'll have Vespers inthe church at 530, and then
we'll have live music on theJubilee stage.
We're preparing the luce lawnand then we're going to maybe
have a beer garden, even if wecan figure it out with legal.
(32:25):
So the bishop would like moreactivity happening at our mother
church here in downtownCleveland and part of my job as
the new parochial vicar is tosee that that happens.
So super excited about it.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
So it'll be fun.
So Cathedral St John here inCleveland and let's take a look
at the third Sunday of Lentreadings.
First reading Burning Bush thisweek.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Oh, love the Burning Bush.
So the Burning Bush, to me,presents the great both.
And, as we were talking aboutbefore, why?
Because the bush is on fire andat the same time, it's not
being consumed.
Usually, when things are onfire, they're burning up.
They're becoming less of whatthey are.
This is a great example ofGod's non-competitive love for
(33:07):
us, that when we let him in ourlife, it doesn't make us any
less than who we are.
It makes us more of who we are,and it's one of these mysteries
that shouldn't be able tohappen, but does the mystery
that Jesus is both God and manwithout being any less man, or
any less God by being both, orMary is both virgin and mother
(33:28):
at the same time.
So I absolutely love theburning bush.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
How about you?
Yeah, same, so it'll be good.
I always like the remove yourshoes.
You're standing on holy ground,but Moses doesn't even realize
where he's standing and he'sjust kind of like whoa wait a
minute.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (33:46):
But as he starts to understand, he realizes this is
the Lord that will lead themthrough the exodus and to save
his people.
So all good.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Let me just say this now because I'm going on
Flannery O'Connor pilgrimagethis weekend.
If you ever read the shortstory Parker's Back, it's about
the guy with all the tattoos.
There's a scene in the shortstory where he becomes a kind of
Moses.
There is fire and his shoesfall off.
So I won't say any more thanthat.
But if you're preparingyourself and your heart for this
(34:17):
weekend's liturgy and you sayI'd like to read some good
fiction, maybe by a Southernwoman, american Catholic, read
Parker's Back.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
There you go, flattery O'Connor Parker's Back,
we'll have this and a whole lot.
You next time.
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