February 25, 2025 • 34 mins
SPONSOR: Briefcase Marketing
Exploring the complex reasons behind the decline of church attendance among Gen Z women, this episode sheds light on their unique experiences and perspectives. The guests, Kate and Natialie, students at Walsh Jesuit High School, both articulate and reflective, provide meaningful insights into faith, community, and identity.
• Examination of why Gen Z women leave church
• Differences in religious experiences between genders
• The influence of societal narratives on spiritual identity
• Importance of community and emotional connections in faith
• Personal stories of re-engagement with spirituality
• Discussing the role of social media in shaping faith experiences
Make sure to join us for this enlightening conversation and share your thoughts with us by emailing your Questions of Faith to: mhayes@dioceseofcleveland.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Deacon Mike (00:00):
On today's Question of Faith.
Why are Gen Z women leaving thechurch?
Hey everybody, this is Questionof Faith.
I am Deacon Mike Hayes.
I'm the Young Adult MinistryDirector here at the Diocese of
Cleveland.
Fr Damian (00:13):
And I'm Father Damian Ferencz, the Vicar for
Evangelization.
Deacon Mike (00:16):
And we have two guests today.
Kate (00:18):
Kate Feliciano and Natalie Patrick.
Deacon Mike (00:21):
And they're both from Walsh Jesuit High School,
correct?
Yes?
Fr Damian (00:24):
Yeah, kate, do you want to tell us your parish?
Kate (00:27):
Yeah, I'm from Holy Family in Stowe and St Mary's of
Hudson.
Fr Damian (00:31):
And Natalie.
Natalie (00:32):
I'm from St John Newman in Strongsville.
Fr Damian (00:35):
And I know both of these ladies who are Gen Z women
from Tolle Lege, which is alittle institute.
I run out at the seminary inthe summer, the last two weeks
of June, for rising seniors.
We study philosophy, theology,culture and liturgy, and so I
spent a week with both of theseladies and some of their other
friends.
So a shout out to all our ToleLege friends who might be
(00:55):
listening.
Deacon Mike (00:57):
So you've got a lot of research this week.
Fr Damian (01:00):
I have, and I obviously spend a good amount of
time with Gen Z women who areyoung adults and you're the
director of Young Adult Ministryand one of the things that I've
come to know in the last fewmonths is that there's a most
recent study that theirgeneration so they're not
millennials, their generation isborn between 1996 and 2012.
(01:22):
And it's the first generationwhere women are leaving the
church at a faster rate than men, With millennials, men, Gen X,
which is what we are men, babyboomers, same but the women have
always been pretty steady, andso this should be some cause for
alarm.
So what we want to do today istalk a little bit about why Gen
Z women are leaving the church,and we also want to hear why you
(01:44):
stay, because you guys are bothpretty faithful.
Deacon Mike (01:47):
And I found this to be so.
First of all, we're talkingabout all Christians, not
necessarily all CatholicsCorrect, not just Catholics,
yeah.
But then, secondly, it's like sowhen I started doing young
adult ministry, we always hadtrouble finding men right and
healthy men on top of that.
And then when I went to campusministry, it was the same thing.
We had plenty of women around,very few men.
(02:08):
Every once in a while we'd geta couple folks coming in, but we
struggled.
We had a great campus ministerwho did a lot of stuff with the
athletes and that's where we gota lot of our guys, but we
really struggled to attract men.
And now it seems to be thereverse.
I do a lot of work in the youngadult ministry and that's, you
know, this age right, a wholebunch of guys like a catching
(02:29):
fire, grapevine, you know,overrun by men, but now they're
struggling to find women.
So I really resonate with this.
Fr Damian (02:34):
I was at a young adult event two weeks ago.
I want to say it was maybe 80%men.
So interesting, that'sinteresting, yeah.
So what have you?
What has your experience been?
Have you had friends who haveleft the church, female friends,
and if they have, have theyvoiced why?
Natalie (02:54):
I think, specifically for me, a lot of my friends have
left the institute of thechurch, but that doesn't
necessarily mean that they'releaving God.
Which I think is a distinctionthat needs to be made is that
while these women may be leavingorganized religion, they aren't
completely turned off to theview of God and to the idea that
(03:16):
God still wants a deep andpersonal relationship.
And I think, talking to a fewof my friends, I've seen more of
an issue with the institute ofthe church and a lot of things
that go on in the church that ismore they find fault in than
actual the being of God.
Deacon Mike (03:33):
Do they talk about anything specific?
Natalie (03:36):
I heard a lot of just like it's a male-dominated
religion, and I think that intoday's society, where women are
told to be independent and thatthey don't need a man, that's
scary and that's something thatthey have been just like,
culturally pushed away from so Ithink it's a huge societal
(03:57):
thing.
Fr Damian (03:58):
Kate.
Kate (03:58):
Yeah, and playing off of that, I also think that looking
at the idea of a relationshipwith men with God, whether that
be fathers, brothers, boys atschool, things like that, you
definitely see that thoserelationships are struggling,
(04:19):
which also causes a lot ofpeople to.
When they go to church and theysee their priest, they kind of
tend to be a little bit moreclosed off, tend to want to hold
back a little bit, and you seea lot of women, like Natalie
said, leaving the institute ofthe church but not turning away
from God, rather kind of takingthat time.
I have some friends who don'tfeel very comfortable in Mass
(04:42):
but will go and spend hours inadoration or hours in prayer
because they desire thatrelationship with God and they
really want to still be one withhim.
They just tend to kind ofstruggle to find that community
within their church life.
Deacon Mike (05:00):
Yeah right, do they have a similar relationship
with other women that arereligious?
Like, do they hang out withother women and talk about God's
stuff and just like push themen aside, or is it something
different?
Kate (05:12):
I think I've definitely noticed from having two very
strong life team communities aswell as a community at Walsh A
lot of women just tend to belike either they don't associate
with, sometimes they don'tassociate with men as much
because they don't want it tobecome a distraction in their
(05:35):
faith.
They don't want it to becomelike something that they rely on
in their faith, Whereas theyalso tend to see it as more of
they don't want to have to kindof revolve their life, seem like
they're revolving their lifearound men.
Deacon Mike (05:51):
Got it.
Natalie (05:53):
Yeah, I would also say with men specifically, are like
the way they're viewed, at leastin school, and men seem to
bring politics a lot intoreligion and I think that's
really.
I feel like women are better atleading with emotion, Like we
are very emotional people andthat's easier to have those
conversations about deeperthings with, and it can be scary
(06:14):
to be vulnerable to a man whenfaith is so personal and such a
vulnerable space in our lives.
Deacon Mike (06:22):
That's true.
We tend to argue about thingsright.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Fr Damian (06:25):
I'm wondering.
The one thing you said was thatyou're raised in a society
where and women are taught thatthey don't need men, and I
wonder if there's somethingfalse or erroneous there,
because as a man, I need women,Like I love the fact that I have
you as my friends.
If I didn't have good women inmy life, I would be in deep,
(06:45):
deep trouble.
You know my mom's deceased now,but I love thinking of the
church.
As female, as mother andteacher, I think that women at
their best bring out the best inme and I wonder, like I
understand, about beingindependent and not totally
reliant or dependent upon, butwhat would you say to?
(07:06):
Men themselves aren't bad andwe're creating God's image and
likeness, male and female.
He created them, so can youspeak to that a little bit?
Natalie (07:15):
Yeah, I think that the feminist movement is such
pitting men against women and Ithink that's so counter of what
everything the church says.
Men have certain qualities thatwomen need and women have
certain qualities that men needand the ability for us to
coexist, and there's things thatme and Kate get out of our
friendship that I like, need andare good, but there are also
(07:38):
things that male friendshipsprovide and that are also so
good.
But I think the feminine, likethe feminist movement right now
is so set on we need to be thesame and I think, rather than
glorifying our differences andfinding the beauty and
femininity and the beauty ofwhat makes a woman feminine, is
(08:01):
so beautiful and what we've kindof lost, that as a society, as
our standard beauty has changedand we're just pitted against
men and I think that that reallyhurts, can't like we see that
in the church and I think ithurts that too yeah, and we um
tend a lot to just kind of, likeshe says, like pit ourselves
(08:21):
against one another, but alsocompare it as well.
Kate (08:25):
If this person's doing this, then, like I also need to
be doing this, when we're allcreated for our own vocation,
we're all created for our ownway of life, um, and we just
have to come to that sense that,you know, natalie and I are
going to have two very differentfutures.
Um, I want to go into education, sports, things like that,
(08:47):
whereas Natalie is looking moreinto the health and departments
like that, because we're bothcreated in that way that we want
to follow our way.
And I think that a lot ofpeople think that when you look
at the men sometimes in thechurch, you tend to think, okay,
well, if this person is doingthis, I need to try and be at
(09:10):
the same level, I need to try,and so it's a continuous
competition.
And that's not just between menand women, that's also between
women, like women alone.
I know a big thing as seniorsin high school.
It's applying to schools howmuch money can you get for
scholarships, things like thatthat people really kind of like
it.
Almost everything turns into abit of a competition which,
(09:34):
coming from somebody who's verycompetitive like that, can be so
hard to not completely revolveyour life around.
And I think that that also justkind of ends up falling into
the church where you feel likeevery time you show up like
you're competing with somebody,to whether it's competing with
them to look holier than them orbe like oh well, I sinned less
than you this week, and thingslike that, and I think that's
(09:55):
become a problem that we kind oftend to fall into a lot virtue
signaling kind
Deacon Mike (10:00):
of stuff right yeah , yeah, I mean, what role do you
think social media plays in allthis?
Kate (10:04):
you know, in terms of competition and you know looking
good and yeah, um, social mediais one of my least favorite
things but also something that Ilove so much.
Um, I know Natalie and I bothhaven't been on TikTok for a
really long time, so that's beenhealthy for us just to kind of
get away from.
But things such as likeInstagram, where it's just
(10:26):
consistently you see things onyour feed and you're comparing
things I know, like I'm aphotographer for sports teams I
see other photographers and Iimmediately start comparing
myself to them, and so I thinkthat, like that's another thing
(10:46):
that's also just added anotherlevel of it is what?
And then, if you do choose, dochoose.
Like I had a period in my lifewhere I went completely off
social media and I immediatelyfelt out of it.
I didn't, I felt like I didn'tknow what was going on in the
world I felt like I had.
No, I literally had no idea whatwas going on, because that's
where I realized I got all mynews from there.
I got to see what my friendswere doing.
I that that's where.
But I also noticed such adifference in, like, my self
image.
I was able to look at myself inthe mirror and be like, wow, I
(11:09):
truly am like perfectly createdin the image of God and things
like that, where when I'm onsocial media, I can't see that
as much.
Yeah, you're just comparingthat, right?
Yeah.
Deacon Mike (11:19):
That's interesting, and so it's interesting how the
fast had the opposite effectthere.
Right Like you would think thatpurging yourself of it would.
Instead, it ends up being FOMO,you know.
Fr Damian (11:30):
I'm preparing for Lent and I've decided to give up
Instagram and X for theentirety of Lent.
I've never done that before.
I usually give up drinking, soI'm going to give up drinking
and dark chocolate and socialmedia.
It's the trifecta.
I was debating between thethree and then I just felt like
(11:50):
the Lord's like go for it, Gofor all three.
I'm like okay, whatever, I'lldo it.
Deacon Mike (11:55):
I'll do it.
We'll see how it goes.
Fr Damian (11:57):
Don't sound so excited, it's one of those
things where you do it and then,when you're done doing it,
you're so grateful, but at thispoint I'm not, I'm not grateful
yeah yeah.
So well, tell us a little bitabout what I mean.
I've got a lot of articles here.
We could link some things tothe show notes because there's a
lot of reasons and I think thepolitical thing's a big one that
you mentioned, um, the, the,the patriarchy business.
(12:20):
I mean, when you think ofchurch, you think, okay, what's
god, the father, j the Son, andsometimes if relationships with
men haven't been great, then youcould bring that in.
So there's a lot there to cover.
But how about?
Why do you stay?
Because you're both reallyactive, both at Walsh and in
your parishes, and you went toCLE 216.
(12:41):
You love being Catholic.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhy you stay Catholic.
Deacon Mike (12:44):
What are some meaningful experiences you've
had?
Natalie (12:48):
Me and Kay have different experiences on this.
I grew up very much Catholic.
Through my whole life Istruggled in my faith, but it
was never a complete separationfrom the church at all, and I
think the reason I continue topursue God and to seek that
relationship and seek thecommunity that is found in the
church is there's so much beautyfound in the church and I think
(13:13):
, specifically as a woman, ourbeauty is so under attack right
now.
And all the beautiful thingsthat we love about being a girl
like there's a trend on, likethere was a trend on TikTok a
while ago, like I love being agirl and like it a trend on,
like there was a trend on TikToka while ago, like I love being
a girl and like it was list allthe reasons like why, and like
so many of those reasons of like, oh, getting ready before
homecoming, and like becomingbeautiful, putting on a fancy
(13:34):
dress, like all those things Ithink speak into the deeper
truth of what women long for.
And like we just long to feelbeautiful and feel a connection.
And I think like that all to mepoints back to the Eucharist
and the beauty of the sacramentand the beauty that is the mass
(13:54):
and I think, like my favoritemasses are the ones where it's
like the Easter vigil, likethere's incense and it's just
very reverent and and you trulyfeel Jesus is present there.
Not to say that he's any lesspresent in other masses, but the
unique beauty in that, I think,as a woman specifically, is
what we long for.
(14:14):
We long to feel beautiful andwe long to feel loved, and I
think that the love that we longfor can only be found in God.
Kate (14:24):
Yeah, and so for me.
I grew up in a family that wasnot very religious, did not
attend Sunday Mass most of mychildhood, and I think that that
created like a big kind ofempty space in my heart.
It actually was just about ayear ago a couple weeks ago that
(14:44):
I had my full reversion backinto the faith.
I attended a retreat from Walshcalled Kairos and I got to sit
in adoration for an hour and ahalf two hours close to and I
honestly sat there and justsobbed.
I had never really sat in frontof the Eucharist before, unless
(15:05):
it was like a religion classassignment or something like
that.
I never really went out of myway to do that and I got to sit
in front of the Eucharist andjust completely collapsed.
I got to be so close, I wassitting right in the front.
I just was able to experienceJesus in his full glory and ever
(15:30):
since that day I decided that Iwanted to turn my life around.
I had struggled with a lot ofthings prior to that experience
between unhealthy relationships,unhealthy relationships within
my family, unhealthyrelationships, unhealthy
relationships within my familyand I just kind of struggled to
(15:54):
see myself as a person otherthan just somebody's girlfriend
or somebody's little sister orwhatever it was.
And when I had that aversionback into the faith, the first
thing that always sticks with meis just being able to like go
to confession.
Confession, honestly, I think iswhat completely saved me being
able to sit down with a priestand I didn't honestly feel that
(16:18):
true confession until June whenI went on totally like I got to
meet an amazing priest, who Inow do almost all of my
confessions with, and I just wasable to see like there is
somebody there that Godcompletely placed in my life,
that is God sitting in front ofme, that I am getting to talk to
and hear from, and honestlythat's just made me want to stay
(16:42):
and want to keep coming back.
And then I go and I sit in Massand I'm not going to lie, I have
my days where sometimes massjust it's like all right, I just
I have to go.
But then I get there and Ireceived the Eucharist and I see
the beauty around me.
Um, whether that's the littlekids running up to your pew or
(17:04):
the sweet old grandma sitting inthe front row, whoever it is
getting to see like the beautyof the church makes it a
thousand times easier just to bethere and want to go every
single day and receive Jesus and, you know, come to that love so
much deeper.
Deacon Mike (17:22):
Kate, I'm curious on that, on that retreat that
you went on, where you said yousat in front of the Eucharist.
You know, I always say it'sit's.
People talk about the profoundexperiences they have in those,
in those situations, but it ittakes something to get people
there.
You know what got you to toactually take the step to go to
to spend some time with Jesus inthe Eucharist.
Kate (17:39):
So I so that retreat um was not when I wanted to go on.
Prior to that, I completelyrenounced God, I renounced the
church as a whole and my oldestbrother, my oldest.
I only have one brother my olderbrother was a leader on this
(18:00):
retreat and we kind of went backand forth of oh, I don't know
if I really want you going onthis retreat because I'm leading
it and that might throw it off.
And then I was like I don'treally know if I even want to go
, um, and it wasn't until aboutthe week prior that finally I
was like okay, fine, maybe I'lljust give it a try.
I don't really know what thiswhole Jesus thing is, but you
know, maybe it could be cool.
(18:20):
And then spoiler alert toanybody who hasn't gone on
Kairos yet they give you thatopportunity where they don't
really tell you what you'regoing to do.
They tell you, hey, like themonstrance is going to be out,
you're going to see theEucharist, but they kind of just
let you, you know, guide it onyour own, let you see it how you
want to.
(18:40):
And it took me about 15 minutesto kind of be like okay, is
this whole thing like?
Is everybody like fake cryingaround me or like what's really
happening?
And then, once I started torealize that it all hit me at
once and I just started cryingand I realized how much like
that was the Spirit moving me.
(19:01):
And then from then, it's likeyou don't even realize how much
adoration is going on.
I mean I am blessed that mychurch, holy Family, has a
24-hour adoration.
I mean I have gone in there at2 in the morning because I
couldn't sleep sometimes, orsometimes I just really need to
(19:22):
talk to Jesus.
As much as I love confessionand I do think it's a great
sacrament, sometimes I just getreally nervous, so I'm like I
need to go sit directly in frontof Jesus for a little while
before I do.
And so I think that, like beingplaced there and now I get to
take that opportunity to go intoadoration, it like has made it
(19:43):
such a different opportunity andI don't feel that feeling of
consolation every single time,which is how it's going to be.
But knowing that, like thinkingback to that situation on
Kairos when I did feel that, andbeing like I strive to feel
that every single day, hashelped me like grow in my faith
so much.
Deacon Mike (20:02):
If I had a dime for every time.
Someone said I didn't think Iwanted to go on Kairos, but then
I went Yep.
Fr Damian (20:09):
Can I ask if you could talk just briefly about
what you liked or what was abenefit of being part of Tole
Lege, Because that's where wemet and I know that a lot of the
things you talked about mayhave been present there.
So if you could just chat,especially if there's a rising
senior who's thinking ofapplying what would be something
that might be a draw.
Natalie (20:31):
I think, being in an environment where everyone
wanted to be there and everyonewas there for the same reason to
deepen their faith, I feel likeeven Kairos a little bit.
It is such a beautiful and greatexperience, but it's also like
you're pressured to go a littlebit, at least at our school, so
sometimes you get some of thepeople who aren't fully in it
(20:52):
just maybe for, like, the socialaspect of which is beautiful,
growing closer to your peers.
But I think Toilet Lake allowedme to deepen my faith in a way
that was like through education.
Deepen my faith in a way thatwas like through education and I
think I am a very if you knowme, I'm very science, very math,
like I like to.
I like my education is veryimportant to me.
(21:14):
So bringing that into my faithin a new way that wasn't just
Catholic school or like thenormal teaching and like
actually like being able to readabout, like philosophy and all
these beautiful doctrines andthings that we learned about,
allowed me to understand myfaith better, which in turn
(21:34):
brought me closer to God.
And I think also the friendshipsand just the community that's
built.
There is beautiful and we stilltalk to everyone today.
Kate (21:42):
Yeah, our group chat is always texting still.
We still talk to everyone today.
Yeah, yeah, our group chat isalways texting still.
But, yeah, totally was my first, my first opportunity after
Kairos that I was like I'm justgoing to.
I'm going to start saying yesto every opportunity that I get
to grow my faith and beingsomebody who had been so distant
(22:03):
from the church for such a longtime when I sat in religion
classes at school I didn'treally listen and things like
that so taking that week out ofmy life, out of my busy schedule
, getting away from lacrosse,getting away from everything
else that was going on, andfully committing to it, that
same idea of everybody who wason Tolle wanted to be there.
(22:23):
Was there maybe a kid or twothat, like everybody else in
their family, went, went?
So they went, yes, but at theend of the day, like when you
came to the end of the week,that person wanted to be there.
And I think that's what made itsuch a big difference was that I
was very hesitant.
I went without knowing anybody.
(22:43):
Natalie and I knew each other,but I didn't know she was going
on it until I had got there andI ended up completely falling in
love with every single personthere still to this day.
I mean, I see Natalie everysingle day.
I see most of the people thereat least once a month.
So it's been such a blessing tohave that community Most of the
(23:04):
people they're at least once amonth.
So it's been such a blessing tohave that community.
And those are also people that Imean you text in our group chat
at any time and somebody willrespond, no matter what it is.
We text about some of theweirdest things, but no matter
what, you always have somebody.
And also it's been such astrong thing for my faith
because I see these other kidswho we all came from different
(23:27):
areas.
Some of us have beenhomeschooled for our whole
entire lives.
Some of us did public schoolfor our whole life, whatever it
was.
But you see these kids whoyou're like wow, that person's
so deep in their faith and theysend a text in the group chat
and they're like hey, doesanybody know what this means?
Or?
Deacon Mike (23:44):
can somebody?
Kate (23:44):
explain this to me and you will get people who fully go
in-depth, explaining it in wordsthat like us as teenagers are
going to understand.
Fr Damian (23:54):
Sounds like Trinity or something.
Kate (23:56):
It's very much Trinity Blake.
Natalie (24:00):
Yeah, I feel like nobody wanted to leave at the
end of the week either.
Kate (24:03):
Yeah.
Natalie (24:04):
And then, when the reunion got canceled, everyone
was so sad, everyone was so sad.
Fr Damian (24:07):
Well, there'll be more reunions.
The other thing I was going tosay, although you guys drove her
nuts a little bit usually thesecond week is the wild week,
but the first week was the wildweek.
Dr Beth Rath also teaches there, and for a lot of the men too,
but to see a young woman PhD inphilosophy is, I think, very
(24:32):
impactful for a rising senior tosay, my gosh, this is pretty
incredible.
And I know that some of ourwomen have gone on at least to
minor, if not major, inphilosophy because of their
experience with Dr Rath at theSM.
So if I could just sum this up,because these were some things
I was thinking of Things thatare unattractive the
institutional aspect and thepolitical aspect.
And it's interesting becausewe've studied this with Francine
your generation as a whole issuspicious of institutions, and
(24:53):
maybe the women even more thanthe men, much like ours.
But that's true of like banksand that's true of big box
stores and all those things.
So the church is oneinstitution among many, but
there's some other issues theretoo, and again we'll put some
links in.
But the things that drew youyou said beauty, the relational
aspect, relationship with God,relationship with others, the
sacramental life, eucharist,confession, prayer, life,
(25:16):
spirituality.
So if we're trying to reach outto young women, it'd probably
be best to lean into the beauty,the relational aspect, the
sacramental aspect, prayer, allthose things would be helpful,
yeah.
Natalie (25:29):
Is that sound right?
Yeah, we're learning.
We're learning from you, so I'masking I think like more of an
importance on prayer, like forsome people, like the
institution is just going toturn them away, so like saying
that's okay, but like like stillhaving that deep prayer life
and a deep spiritual connectionwith God is so important and I
(25:50):
think if it starts with that,then that will lead them back to
the church eventually.
Deacon Mike (25:54):
That's smart, good.
One last question for me what'sone thing that you think older
people don't know about yourgeneration that they should know
, or that they don't understandabout your generation, maybe?
Kate (26:08):
I think something that you see a lot from the older
generation is that the peoplewho are showing up to church,
the people who want to createthat relationship with God,
we're not all going to look likethe same.
So I think something that Idefinitely struggled with a lot
(26:29):
coming into the church was, youknow, my dresses are usually
above my knee or, you know,every once in a while, like I'll
wear like a smaller shirt tochurch, things like that and I
think that something that I'veexperienced from the older
community is that leads to a lotof judgment, that leads a lot
to a lot of okay, well, well,you're not actually practicing
(26:50):
your faith because you don'tlook like you are, um.
So I think that's also somethingthat scares people a little bit
.
Is that like, oh, I'm scared towear the wrong thing, I'm
scared to wear this, um.
Or just in general, I'm scaredto be judged yeah, sure, yeah so
I think that's a big fear, evenlike you even see that in high
school and stuff.
It's just a big judgment aspectthat people are scared of.
Deacon Mike (27:11):
Notre Dame did a longitudinal study about this.
This is going back now too,about 30 years now.
That's one of the biggestthings that all generations have
that there's a judgmentalattitude amongst religious
people in general that turnsthem off immediately, especially
when they're found to behypocrites.
And the same thing, natalie.
Natalie (27:31):
I think that, just as our generation as a whole, we're
seen as more ignorant and that,just because we're younger, we
aren't as smart to certainthings, and I think we're just
looked down upon like, oh, youdon't understand this or that.
Our I'm trying to think of theright word our faults come from
(27:55):
ignorance, and I think thatwe're a lot smarter than you,
like the older generation, maythink that we are, yes, you are.
We have so many more resourcesavailable to us and we are very
well educated and our curiositylike sometimes our curiosity
comes off as, oh, theinstitution might not be right
for me right now or oh this, I'mlike really struggling with
(28:16):
this, just because our we are socurious and we are, we want to
learn, and I think that thatcuriosity can leave lead to a
lot of head-on collisionsbetween things, and I don't
think the curiosity is bad and Ithink if the older generation
wants to connect with us more,share your experience, what
(28:40):
knowledge do you have, insteadof looking down on us.
It's like a mutual thing, but weboth have different experiences
that are equally as valuable,and we can learn from each other
rather than we can just learnfrom you.
Deacon Mike (28:52):
One of my all-time favorite students, ryan
Undercoffer, who just called methe other day.
He said that one of the thingsthat I have to teach him is life
experience right, the differentexperiences I've had and what
I've learned from them.
And he said but if you tell meabout like a TV show or a movie
or a book, he goes, I'm going togo home and I'm going to look
at this on Google and by the endof the day, I'll know more
(29:12):
about it than you will.
And I was like, not wrong.
And so, yes, you both havetalked a little bit about your
parish, but I think, Natalie,maybe you didn't talk a little
bit about John Newman.
Can you tell me a little bitabout your parish there?
Natalie (29:29):
I really love St John Newman.
I think the leadership that wehave in Father Barry he's been
there for a while and I just thewisdom that he imparts is
really beautiful.
And then I also think that ourlife team community is it's
growing and it's just such awarm and welcoming environment.
(29:50):
So if anyone lives nearStrongsville, sunday nights 5 pm
, come to Life Teen Mass.
Fr Damian (29:56):
I heard you had a really crappy speaker, though
this week.
Natalie (29:58):
Yeah, last weekend some guy named Father Damien.
It was kind of disappointingvery disappointing he's the
worst.
No, it was great.
It was a really really goodtime.
Fr Damian (30:07):
Oh, thanks, thank you , it was good to see you guys.
Natalie (30:09):
Yeah, and just the community that provides, even
finding other people that are asdeep in their faith, and I
think that St John Newman does areally good job of being in the
community as well and not justsitting as a standalone church,
but helping those around us aswell.
Deacon Mike (30:30):
Sure, that's cool.
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Fr Damian (30:36):
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Deacon Mike (31:47):
Eighth Sunday in Ordinary Time coming up this
weekend, Gospel is Luke's Gospel.
What I liked in this one thisweek is a good person out of the
store of goodness in his heartproduces good, but an evil
person out of a store of evilproduces evil.
I think the word store in thatsentence is the key one.
What do you store up?
Do you store up goodness or doyou store up hatred?
(32:09):
Right, and if you store that up, that's what you're going to
give back, that's what you haveto give.
So store more goodness thanhatred.
Fr Damian (32:16):
I was visiting a couple of my friends on Friday
in Steubenville BrittanyBuchanan, who's a former Tolle
Legge girl, and Anna Marino, andthey both have been doing
pottery recently Interesting andAnna Marino and they both have
been doing pottery recently andso I was drawn to the first
reading.
As the test of what the pottermolds is in the furnace, so in
tribulation, is the test of thejust.
(32:36):
So when you put your clay intothe kiln, if it's not right
it'll crack and break apart.
So you learn someone'scharacter when the heat is on
and that's when one's characteris revealed.
And I like that, especiallysince I have friends who are now
at the potter's wheel on aregular basis I.
Natalie (32:58):
The part that stuck out to me was for every tree is
known by its own fruit and itmade me think about, like, what
fruit am I producing and whatdoes it say about who I am as a
person?
So I think it just brought alot of self-reflection of, like,
what you are putting out there.
The words you speak become likethe house that you live in and
(33:18):
all those things that you areacting like.
That speaks a lot to yourcharacters.
Deacon Mike (33:22):
Yeah, very good.
Kate (33:25):
That line also had stuck out to me earlier when I had
read it, and I think it alsoplays into what we were talking
about earlier with.
Everybody is made for their ownvocation and every tree is
going to be different.
Even if there's a line of appletrees, not a single apple on
those trees is going to look thesame, is going to look the same
(33:46):
.
So, understanding that everyone of us is made to bear our
own fruit and make it beautifuland flourish it on our own.
Deacon Mike (33:55):
Very nice, All right.
So, Kate Natalie, thanks somuch for joining us.
Kate (33:59):
Thank you for having us.
Fr Damian (34:00):
You have blessed us with your beauty, intelligence
and feminine genius, and we'regrateful.
Natalie (34:06):
Thank you.
Deacon Mike (34:07):
You're welcome.
Amen, this has been Question ofFaith.
I am Deacon Mike Hayes and I'mFr Damian Ferentz, and we'll see
you all again next time.
On today's Question of Faith.
Why are Gen Z women leaving thechurch?
Hey everybody, this is Questionof Faith.
I am Deacon Mike Hayes.
I'm the Young Adult MinistryDirector here at the Diocese of
Cleveland.
Fr Damian (00:13):
And I'm Father Damian Ferencz, the Vicar for
Evangelization.
Deacon Mike (00:16):
And we have two guests today.
Kate (00:18):
Kate Feliciano and Natalie Patrick.
Deacon Mike (00:21):
And they're both from Walsh Jesuit High School,
correct?
Yes?
Fr Damian (00:24):
Yeah, kate, do you want to tell us your parish?
Kate (00:27):
Yeah, I'm from Holy Family in Stowe and St Mary's of
Hudson.
Fr Damian (00:31):
And Natalie.
Natalie (00:32):
I'm from St John Newman in Strongsville.
Fr Damian (00:35):
And I know both of these ladies who are Gen Z women
from Tolle Lege, which is alittle institute.
I run out at the seminary inthe summer, the last two weeks
of June, for rising seniors.
We study philosophy, theology,culture and liturgy, and so I
spent a week with both of theseladies and some of their other
friends.
So a shout out to all our ToleLege friends who might be
(00:55):
listening.
Deacon Mike (00:57):
So you've got a lot of research this week.
Fr Damian (01:00):
I have, and I obviously spend a good amount of
time with Gen Z women who areyoung adults and you're the
director of Young Adult Ministryand one of the things that I've
come to know in the last fewmonths is that there's a most
recent study that theirgeneration so they're not
millennials, their generation isborn between 1996 and 2012.
(01:22):
And it's the first generationwhere women are leaving the
church at a faster rate than men, With millennials, men, Gen X,
which is what we are men, babyboomers, same but the women have
always been pretty steady, andso this should be some cause for
alarm.
So what we want to do today istalk a little bit about why Gen
Z women are leaving the church,and we also want to hear why you
(01:44):
stay, because you guys are bothpretty faithful.
Deacon Mike (01:47):
And I found this to be so.
First of all, we're talkingabout all Christians, not
necessarily all CatholicsCorrect, not just Catholics,
yeah.
But then, secondly, it's like sowhen I started doing young
adult ministry, we always hadtrouble finding men right and
healthy men on top of that.
And then when I went to campusministry, it was the same thing.
We had plenty of women around,very few men.
(02:08):
Every once in a while we'd geta couple folks coming in, but we
struggled.
We had a great campus ministerwho did a lot of stuff with the
athletes and that's where we gota lot of our guys, but we
really struggled to attract men.
And now it seems to be thereverse.
I do a lot of work in the youngadult ministry and that's, you
know, this age right, a wholebunch of guys like a catching
(02:29):
fire, grapevine, you know,overrun by men, but now they're
struggling to find women.
So I really resonate with this.
Fr Damian (02:34):
I was at a young adult event two weeks ago.
I want to say it was maybe 80%men.
So interesting, that'sinteresting, yeah.
So what have you?
What has your experience been?
Have you had friends who haveleft the church, female friends,
and if they have, have theyvoiced why?
Natalie (02:54):
I think, specifically for me, a lot of my friends have
left the institute of thechurch, but that doesn't
necessarily mean that they'releaving God.
Which I think is a distinctionthat needs to be made is that
while these women may be leavingorganized religion, they aren't
completely turned off to theview of God and to the idea that
(03:16):
God still wants a deep andpersonal relationship.
And I think, talking to a fewof my friends, I've seen more of
an issue with the institute ofthe church and a lot of things
that go on in the church that ismore they find fault in than
actual the being of God.
Deacon Mike (03:33):
Do they talk about anything specific?
Natalie (03:36):
I heard a lot of just like it's a male-dominated
religion, and I think that intoday's society, where women are
told to be independent and thatthey don't need a man, that's
scary and that's something thatthey have been just like,
culturally pushed away from so Ithink it's a huge societal
(03:57):
thing.
Fr Damian (03:58):
Kate.
Kate (03:58):
Yeah, and playing off of that, I also think that looking
at the idea of a relationshipwith men with God, whether that
be fathers, brothers, boys atschool, things like that, you
definitely see that thoserelationships are struggling,
(04:19):
which also causes a lot ofpeople to.
When they go to church and theysee their priest, they kind of
tend to be a little bit moreclosed off, tend to want to hold
back a little bit, and you seea lot of women, like Natalie
said, leaving the institute ofthe church but not turning away
from God, rather kind of takingthat time.
I have some friends who don'tfeel very comfortable in Mass
(04:42):
but will go and spend hours inadoration or hours in prayer
because they desire thatrelationship with God and they
really want to still be one withhim.
They just tend to kind ofstruggle to find that community
within their church life.
Deacon Mike (05:00):
Yeah right, do they have a similar relationship
with other women that arereligious?
Like, do they hang out withother women and talk about God's
stuff and just like push themen aside, or is it something
different?
Kate (05:12):
I think I've definitely noticed from having two very
strong life team communities aswell as a community at Walsh A
lot of women just tend to belike either they don't associate
with, sometimes they don'tassociate with men as much
because they don't want it tobecome a distraction in their
(05:35):
faith.
They don't want it to becomelike something that they rely on
in their faith, Whereas theyalso tend to see it as more of
they don't want to have to kindof revolve their life, seem like
they're revolving their lifearound men.
Deacon Mike (05:51):
Got it.
Natalie (05:53):
Yeah, I would also say with men specifically, are like
the way they're viewed, at leastin school, and men seem to
bring politics a lot intoreligion and I think that's
really.
I feel like women are better atleading with emotion, Like we
are very emotional people andthat's easier to have those
conversations about deeperthings with, and it can be scary
(06:14):
to be vulnerable to a man whenfaith is so personal and such a
vulnerable space in our lives.
Deacon Mike (06:22):
That's true.
We tend to argue about thingsright.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Fr Damian (06:25):
I'm wondering.
The one thing you said was thatyou're raised in a society
where and women are taught thatthey don't need men, and I
wonder if there's somethingfalse or erroneous there,
because as a man, I need women,Like I love the fact that I have
you as my friends.
If I didn't have good women inmy life, I would be in deep,
(06:45):
deep trouble.
You know my mom's deceased now,but I love thinking of the
church.
As female, as mother andteacher, I think that women at
their best bring out the best inme and I wonder, like I
understand, about beingindependent and not totally
reliant or dependent upon, butwhat would you say to?
(07:06):
Men themselves aren't bad andwe're creating God's image and
likeness, male and female.
He created them, so can youspeak to that a little bit?
Natalie (07:15):
Yeah, I think that the feminist movement is such
pitting men against women and Ithink that's so counter of what
everything the church says.
Men have certain qualities thatwomen need and women have
certain qualities that men needand the ability for us to
coexist, and there's things thatme and Kate get out of our
friendship that I like, need andare good, but there are also
(07:38):
things that male friendshipsprovide and that are also so
good.
But I think the feminine, likethe feminist movement right now
is so set on we need to be thesame and I think, rather than
glorifying our differences andfinding the beauty and
femininity and the beauty ofwhat makes a woman feminine, is
(08:01):
so beautiful and what we've kindof lost, that as a society, as
our standard beauty has changedand we're just pitted against
men and I think that that reallyhurts, can't like we see that
in the church and I think ithurts that too yeah, and we um
tend a lot to just kind of, likeshe says, like pit ourselves
(08:21):
against one another, but alsocompare it as well.
Kate (08:25):
If this person's doing this, then, like I also need to
be doing this, when we're allcreated for our own vocation,
we're all created for our ownway of life, um, and we just
have to come to that sense that,you know, natalie and I are
going to have two very differentfutures.
Um, I want to go into education, sports, things like that,
(08:47):
whereas Natalie is looking moreinto the health and departments
like that, because we're bothcreated in that way that we want
to follow our way.
And I think that a lot ofpeople think that when you look
at the men sometimes in thechurch, you tend to think, okay,
well, if this person is doingthis, I need to try and be at
(09:10):
the same level, I need to try,and so it's a continuous
competition.
And that's not just between menand women, that's also between
women, like women alone.
I know a big thing as seniorsin high school.
It's applying to schools howmuch money can you get for
scholarships, things like thatthat people really kind of like
it.
Almost everything turns into abit of a competition which,
(09:34):
coming from somebody who's verycompetitive like that, can be so
hard to not completely revolveyour life around.
And I think that that also justkind of ends up falling into
the church where you feel likeevery time you show up like
you're competing with somebody,to whether it's competing with
them to look holier than them orbe like oh well, I sinned less
than you this week, and thingslike that, and I think that's
(09:55):
become a problem that we kind oftend to fall into a lot virtue
signaling kind
Deacon Mike (10:00):
of stuff right yeah , yeah, I mean, what role do you
think social media plays in allthis?
Kate (10:04):
you know, in terms of competition and you know looking
good and yeah, um, social mediais one of my least favorite
things but also something that Ilove so much.
Um, I know Natalie and I bothhaven't been on TikTok for a
really long time, so that's beenhealthy for us just to kind of
get away from.
But things such as likeInstagram, where it's just
(10:26):
consistently you see things onyour feed and you're comparing
things I know, like I'm aphotographer for sports teams I
see other photographers and Iimmediately start comparing
myself to them, and so I thinkthat, like that's another thing
(10:46):
that's also just added anotherlevel of it is what?
And then, if you do choose, dochoose.
Like I had a period in my lifewhere I went completely off
social media and I immediatelyfelt out of it.
I didn't, I felt like I didn'tknow what was going on in the
world I felt like I had.
No, I literally had no idea whatwas going on, because that's
where I realized I got all mynews from there.
I got to see what my friendswere doing.
I that that's where.
But I also noticed such adifference in, like, my self
image.
I was able to look at myself inthe mirror and be like, wow, I
(11:09):
truly am like perfectly createdin the image of God and things
like that, where when I'm onsocial media, I can't see that
as much.
Yeah, you're just comparingthat, right?
Yeah.
Deacon Mike (11:19):
That's interesting, and so it's interesting how the
fast had the opposite effectthere.
Right Like you would think thatpurging yourself of it would.
Instead, it ends up being FOMO,you know.
Fr Damian (11:30):
I'm preparing for Lent and I've decided to give up
Instagram and X for theentirety of Lent.
I've never done that before.
I usually give up drinking, soI'm going to give up drinking
and dark chocolate and socialmedia.
It's the trifecta.
I was debating between thethree and then I just felt like
(11:50):
the Lord's like go for it, Gofor all three.
I'm like okay, whatever, I'lldo it.
Deacon Mike (11:55):
I'll do it.
We'll see how it goes.
Fr Damian (11:57):
Don't sound so excited, it's one of those
things where you do it and then,when you're done doing it,
you're so grateful, but at thispoint I'm not, I'm not grateful
yeah yeah.
So well, tell us a little bitabout what I mean.
I've got a lot of articles here.
We could link some things tothe show notes because there's a
lot of reasons and I think thepolitical thing's a big one that
you mentioned, um, the, the,the patriarchy business.
(12:20):
I mean, when you think ofchurch, you think, okay, what's
god, the father, j the Son, andsometimes if relationships with
men haven't been great, then youcould bring that in.
So there's a lot there to cover.
But how about?
Why do you stay?
Because you're both reallyactive, both at Walsh and in
your parishes, and you went toCLE 216.
(12:41):
You love being Catholic.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhy you stay Catholic.
Deacon Mike (12:44):
What are some meaningful experiences you've
had?
Natalie (12:48):
Me and Kay have different experiences on this.
I grew up very much Catholic.
Through my whole life Istruggled in my faith, but it
was never a complete separationfrom the church at all, and I
think the reason I continue topursue God and to seek that
relationship and seek thecommunity that is found in the
church is there's so much beautyfound in the church and I think
(13:13):
, specifically as a woman, ourbeauty is so under attack right
now.
And all the beautiful thingsthat we love about being a girl
like there's a trend on, likethere was a trend on TikTok a
while ago, like I love being agirl and like it a trend on,
like there was a trend on TikToka while ago, like I love being
a girl and like it was list allthe reasons like why, and like
so many of those reasons of like, oh, getting ready before
homecoming, and like becomingbeautiful, putting on a fancy
(13:34):
dress, like all those things Ithink speak into the deeper
truth of what women long for.
And like we just long to feelbeautiful and feel a connection.
And I think like that all to mepoints back to the Eucharist
and the beauty of the sacramentand the beauty that is the mass
(13:54):
and I think, like my favoritemasses are the ones where it's
like the Easter vigil, likethere's incense and it's just
very reverent and and you trulyfeel Jesus is present there.
Not to say that he's any lesspresent in other masses, but the
unique beauty in that, I think,as a woman specifically, is
what we long for.
(14:14):
We long to feel beautiful andwe long to feel loved, and I
think that the love that we longfor can only be found in God.
Kate (14:24):
Yeah, and so for me.
I grew up in a family that wasnot very religious, did not
attend Sunday Mass most of mychildhood, and I think that that
created like a big kind ofempty space in my heart.
It actually was just about ayear ago a couple weeks ago that
(14:44):
I had my full reversion backinto the faith.
I attended a retreat from Walshcalled Kairos and I got to sit
in adoration for an hour and ahalf two hours close to and I
honestly sat there and justsobbed.
I had never really sat in frontof the Eucharist before, unless
(15:05):
it was like a religion classassignment or something like
that.
I never really went out of myway to do that and I got to sit
in front of the Eucharist andjust completely collapsed.
I got to be so close, I wassitting right in the front.
I just was able to experienceJesus in his full glory and ever
(15:30):
since that day I decided that Iwanted to turn my life around.
I had struggled with a lot ofthings prior to that experience
between unhealthy relationships,unhealthy relationships within
my family, unhealthyrelationships, unhealthy
relationships within my familyand I just kind of struggled to
(15:54):
see myself as a person otherthan just somebody's girlfriend
or somebody's little sister orwhatever it was.
And when I had that aversionback into the faith, the first
thing that always sticks with meis just being able to like go
to confession.
Confession, honestly, I think iswhat completely saved me being
able to sit down with a priestand I didn't honestly feel that
(16:18):
true confession until June whenI went on totally like I got to
meet an amazing priest, who Inow do almost all of my
confessions with, and I just wasable to see like there is
somebody there that Godcompletely placed in my life,
that is God sitting in front ofme, that I am getting to talk to
and hear from, and honestlythat's just made me want to stay
(16:42):
and want to keep coming back.
And then I go and I sit in Massand I'm not going to lie, I have
my days where sometimes massjust it's like all right, I just
I have to go.
But then I get there and Ireceived the Eucharist and I see
the beauty around me.
Um, whether that's the littlekids running up to your pew or
(17:04):
the sweet old grandma sitting inthe front row, whoever it is
getting to see like the beautyof the church makes it a
thousand times easier just to bethere and want to go every
single day and receive Jesus and, you know, come to that love so
much deeper.
Deacon Mike (17:22):
Kate, I'm curious on that, on that retreat that
you went on, where you said yousat in front of the Eucharist.
You know, I always say it'sit's.
People talk about the profoundexperiences they have in those,
in those situations, but it ittakes something to get people
there.
You know what got you to toactually take the step to go to
to spend some time with Jesus inthe Eucharist.
Kate (17:39):
So I so that retreat um was not when I wanted to go on.
Prior to that, I completelyrenounced God, I renounced the
church as a whole and my oldestbrother, my oldest.
I only have one brother my olderbrother was a leader on this
(18:00):
retreat and we kind of went backand forth of oh, I don't know
if I really want you going onthis retreat because I'm leading
it and that might throw it off.
And then I was like I don'treally know if I even want to go
, um, and it wasn't until aboutthe week prior that finally I
was like okay, fine, maybe I'lljust give it a try.
I don't really know what thiswhole Jesus thing is, but you
know, maybe it could be cool.
(18:20):
And then spoiler alert toanybody who hasn't gone on
Kairos yet they give you thatopportunity where they don't
really tell you what you'regoing to do.
They tell you, hey, like themonstrance is going to be out,
you're going to see theEucharist, but they kind of just
let you, you know, guide it onyour own, let you see it how you
want to.
(18:40):
And it took me about 15 minutesto kind of be like okay, is
this whole thing like?
Is everybody like fake cryingaround me or like what's really
happening?
And then, once I started torealize that it all hit me at
once and I just started cryingand I realized how much like
that was the Spirit moving me.
(19:01):
And then from then, it's likeyou don't even realize how much
adoration is going on.
I mean I am blessed that mychurch, holy Family, has a
24-hour adoration.
I mean I have gone in there at2 in the morning because I
couldn't sleep sometimes, orsometimes I just really need to
(19:22):
talk to Jesus.
As much as I love confessionand I do think it's a great
sacrament, sometimes I just getreally nervous, so I'm like I
need to go sit directly in frontof Jesus for a little while
before I do.
And so I think that, like beingplaced there and now I get to
take that opportunity to go intoadoration, it like has made it
(19:43):
such a different opportunity andI don't feel that feeling of
consolation every single time,which is how it's going to be.
But knowing that, like thinkingback to that situation on
Kairos when I did feel that, andbeing like I strive to feel
that every single day, hashelped me like grow in my faith
so much.
Deacon Mike (20:02):
If I had a dime for every time.
Someone said I didn't think Iwanted to go on Kairos, but then
I went Yep.
Fr Damian (20:09):
Can I ask if you could talk just briefly about
what you liked or what was abenefit of being part of Tole
Lege, Because that's where wemet and I know that a lot of the
things you talked about mayhave been present there.
So if you could just chat,especially if there's a rising
senior who's thinking ofapplying what would be something
that might be a draw.
Natalie (20:31):
I think, being in an environment where everyone
wanted to be there and everyonewas there for the same reason to
deepen their faith, I feel likeeven Kairos a little bit.
It is such a beautiful and greatexperience, but it's also like
you're pressured to go a littlebit, at least at our school, so
sometimes you get some of thepeople who aren't fully in it
(20:52):
just maybe for, like, the socialaspect of which is beautiful,
growing closer to your peers.
But I think Toilet Lake allowedme to deepen my faith in a way
that was like through education.
Deepen my faith in a way thatwas like through education and I
think I am a very if you knowme, I'm very science, very math,
like I like to.
I like my education is veryimportant to me.
(21:14):
So bringing that into my faithin a new way that wasn't just
Catholic school or like thenormal teaching and like
actually like being able to readabout, like philosophy and all
these beautiful doctrines andthings that we learned about,
allowed me to understand myfaith better, which in turn
(21:34):
brought me closer to God.
And I think also the friendshipsand just the community that's
built.
There is beautiful and we stilltalk to everyone today.
Kate (21:42):
Yeah, our group chat is always texting still.
We still talk to everyone today.
Yeah, yeah, our group chat isalways texting still.
But, yeah, totally was my first, my first opportunity after
Kairos that I was like I'm justgoing to.
I'm going to start saying yesto every opportunity that I get
to grow my faith and beingsomebody who had been so distant
(22:03):
from the church for such a longtime when I sat in religion
classes at school I didn'treally listen and things like
that so taking that week out ofmy life, out of my busy schedule
, getting away from lacrosse,getting away from everything
else that was going on, andfully committing to it, that
same idea of everybody who wason Tolle wanted to be there.
(22:23):
Was there maybe a kid or twothat, like everybody else in
their family, went, went?
So they went, yes, but at theend of the day, like when you
came to the end of the week,that person wanted to be there.
And I think that's what made itsuch a big difference was that I
was very hesitant.
I went without knowing anybody.
(22:43):
Natalie and I knew each other,but I didn't know she was going
on it until I had got there andI ended up completely falling in
love with every single personthere still to this day.
I mean, I see Natalie everysingle day.
I see most of the people thereat least once a month.
So it's been such a blessing tohave that community Most of the
(23:04):
people they're at least once amonth.
So it's been such a blessing tohave that community.
And those are also people that Imean you text in our group chat
at any time and somebody willrespond, no matter what it is.
We text about some of theweirdest things, but no matter
what, you always have somebody.
And also it's been such astrong thing for my faith
because I see these other kidswho we all came from different
(23:27):
areas.
Some of us have beenhomeschooled for our whole
entire lives.
Some of us did public schoolfor our whole life, whatever it
was.
But you see these kids whoyou're like wow, that person's
so deep in their faith and theysend a text in the group chat
and they're like hey, doesanybody know what this means?
Or?
Deacon Mike (23:44):
can somebody?
Kate (23:44):
explain this to me and you will get people who fully go
in-depth, explaining it in wordsthat like us as teenagers are
going to understand.
Fr Damian (23:54):
Sounds like Trinity or something.
Kate (23:56):
It's very much Trinity Blake.
Natalie (24:00):
Yeah, I feel like nobody wanted to leave at the
end of the week either.
Kate (24:03):
Yeah.
Natalie (24:04):
And then, when the reunion got canceled, everyone
was so sad, everyone was so sad.
Fr Damian (24:07):
Well, there'll be more reunions.
The other thing I was going tosay, although you guys drove her
nuts a little bit usually thesecond week is the wild week,
but the first week was the wildweek.
Dr Beth Rath also teaches there, and for a lot of the men too,
but to see a young woman PhD inphilosophy is, I think, very
(24:32):
impactful for a rising senior tosay, my gosh, this is pretty
incredible.
And I know that some of ourwomen have gone on at least to
minor, if not major, inphilosophy because of their
experience with Dr Rath at theSM.
So if I could just sum this up,because these were some things
I was thinking of Things thatare unattractive the
institutional aspect and thepolitical aspect.
And it's interesting becausewe've studied this with Francine
your generation as a whole issuspicious of institutions, and
(24:53):
maybe the women even more thanthe men, much like ours.
But that's true of like banksand that's true of big box
stores and all those things.
So the church is oneinstitution among many, but
there's some other issues theretoo, and again we'll put some
links in.
But the things that drew youyou said beauty, the relational
aspect, relationship with God,relationship with others, the
sacramental life, eucharist,confession, prayer, life,
(25:16):
spirituality.
So if we're trying to reach outto young women, it'd probably
be best to lean into the beauty,the relational aspect, the
sacramental aspect, prayer, allthose things would be helpful,
yeah.
Natalie (25:29):
Is that sound right?
Yeah, we're learning.
We're learning from you, so I'masking I think like more of an
importance on prayer, like forsome people, like the
institution is just going toturn them away, so like saying
that's okay, but like like stillhaving that deep prayer life
and a deep spiritual connectionwith God is so important and I
(25:50):
think if it starts with that,then that will lead them back to
the church eventually.
Deacon Mike (25:54):
That's smart, good.
One last question for me what'sone thing that you think older
people don't know about yourgeneration that they should know
, or that they don't understandabout your generation, maybe?
Kate (26:08):
I think something that you see a lot from the older
generation is that the peoplewho are showing up to church,
the people who want to createthat relationship with God,
we're not all going to look likethe same.
So I think something that Idefinitely struggled with a lot
(26:29):
coming into the church was, youknow, my dresses are usually
above my knee or, you know,every once in a while, like I'll
wear like a smaller shirt tochurch, things like that and I
think that something that I'veexperienced from the older
community is that leads to a lotof judgment, that leads a lot
to a lot of okay, well, well,you're not actually practicing
(26:50):
your faith because you don'tlook like you are, um.
So I think that's also somethingthat scares people a little bit
.
Is that like, oh, I'm scared towear the wrong thing, I'm
scared to wear this, um.
Or just in general, I'm scaredto be judged yeah, sure, yeah so
I think that's a big fear, evenlike you even see that in high
school and stuff.
It's just a big judgment aspectthat people are scared of.
Deacon Mike (27:11):
Notre Dame did a longitudinal study about this.
This is going back now too,about 30 years now.
That's one of the biggestthings that all generations have
that there's a judgmentalattitude amongst religious
people in general that turnsthem off immediately, especially
when they're found to behypocrites.
And the same thing, natalie.
Natalie (27:31):
I think that, just as our generation as a whole, we're
seen as more ignorant and that,just because we're younger, we
aren't as smart to certainthings, and I think we're just
looked down upon like, oh, youdon't understand this or that.
Our I'm trying to think of theright word our faults come from
(27:55):
ignorance, and I think thatwe're a lot smarter than you,
like the older generation, maythink that we are, yes, you are.
We have so many more resourcesavailable to us and we are very
well educated and our curiositylike sometimes our curiosity
comes off as, oh, theinstitution might not be right
for me right now or oh this, I'mlike really struggling with
(28:16):
this, just because our we are socurious and we are, we want to
learn, and I think that thatcuriosity can leave lead to a
lot of head-on collisionsbetween things, and I don't
think the curiosity is bad and Ithink if the older generation
wants to connect with us more,share your experience, what
(28:40):
knowledge do you have, insteadof looking down on us.
It's like a mutual thing, but weboth have different experiences
that are equally as valuable,and we can learn from each other
rather than we can just learnfrom you.
Deacon Mike (28:52):
One of my all-time favorite students, ryan
Undercoffer, who just called methe other day.
He said that one of the thingsthat I have to teach him is life
experience right, the differentexperiences I've had and what
I've learned from them.
And he said but if you tell meabout like a TV show or a movie
or a book, he goes, I'm going togo home and I'm going to look
at this on Google and by the endof the day, I'll know more
(29:12):
about it than you will.
And I was like, not wrong.
And so, yes, you both havetalked a little bit about your
parish, but I think, Natalie,maybe you didn't talk a little
bit about John Newman.
Can you tell me a little bitabout your parish there?
Natalie (29:29):
I really love St John Newman.
I think the leadership that wehave in Father Barry he's been
there for a while and I just thewisdom that he imparts is
really beautiful.
And then I also think that ourlife team community is it's
growing and it's just such awarm and welcoming environment.
(29:50):
So if anyone lives nearStrongsville, sunday nights 5 pm
, come to Life Teen Mass.
Fr Damian (29:56):
I heard you had a really crappy speaker, though
this week.
Natalie (29:58):
Yeah, last weekend some guy named Father Damien.
It was kind of disappointingvery disappointing he's the
worst.
No, it was great.
It was a really really goodtime.
Fr Damian (30:07):
Oh, thanks, thank you , it was good to see you guys.
Natalie (30:09):
Yeah, and just the community that provides, even
finding other people that are asdeep in their faith, and I
think that St John Newman does areally good job of being in the
community as well and not justsitting as a standalone church,
but helping those around us aswell.
Deacon Mike (30:30):
Sure, that's cool.
Hey, this podcast is brought toyou by Briefcase Marketing.
So our sponsor, briefcaseMarketing, hey, do you guys know
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Fr Damian (30:36):
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Well, briefcase Marketing getsgreat Google reviews.
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(31:26):
compelling website.
Deacon Mike (31:26):
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Fr Damian (31:33):
So visit their website.
That's briefcasemarketing.
We've got their link in theshow notes or text 308-627-1262.
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Deacon Mike (31:47):
Eighth Sunday in Ordinary Time coming up this
weekend, Gospel is Luke's Gospel.
What I liked in this one thisweek is a good person out of the
store of goodness in his heartproduces good, but an evil
person out of a store of evilproduces evil.
I think the word store in thatsentence is the key one.
What do you store up?
Do you store up goodness or doyou store up hatred?
(32:09):
Right, and if you store that up, that's what you're going to
give back, that's what you haveto give.
So store more goodness thanhatred.
Fr Damian (32:16):
I was visiting a couple of my friends on Friday
in Steubenville BrittanyBuchanan, who's a former Tolle
Legge girl, and Anna Marino, andthey both have been doing
pottery recently Interesting andAnna Marino and they both have
been doing pottery recently andso I was drawn to the first
reading.
As the test of what the pottermolds is in the furnace, so in
tribulation, is the test of thejust.
(32:36):
So when you put your clay intothe kiln, if it's not right
it'll crack and break apart.
So you learn someone'scharacter when the heat is on
and that's when one's characteris revealed.
And I like that, especiallysince I have friends who are now
at the potter's wheel on aregular basis I.
Natalie (32:58):
The part that stuck out to me was for every tree is
known by its own fruit and itmade me think about, like, what
fruit am I producing and whatdoes it say about who I am as a
person?
So I think it just brought alot of self-reflection of, like,
what you are putting out there.
The words you speak become likethe house that you live in and
(33:18):
all those things that you areacting like.
That speaks a lot to yourcharacters.
Deacon Mike (33:22):
Yeah, very good.
Kate (33:25):
That line also had stuck out to me earlier when I had
read it, and I think it alsoplays into what we were talking
about earlier with.
Everybody is made for their ownvocation and every tree is
going to be different.
Even if there's a line of appletrees, not a single apple on
those trees is going to look thesame, is going to look the same
(33:46):
.
So, understanding that everyone of us is made to bear our
own fruit and make it beautifuland flourish it on our own.
Deacon Mike (33:55):
Very nice, All right.
So, Kate Natalie, thanks somuch for joining us.
Kate (33:59):
Thank you for having us.
Fr Damian (34:00):
You have blessed us with your beauty, intelligence
and feminine genius, and we'regrateful.
Natalie (34:06):
Thank you.
Deacon Mike (34:07):
You're welcome.
Amen, this has been Question ofFaith.
I am Deacon Mike Hayes and I'mFr Damian Ferentz, and we'll see
you all again next time.
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