Idris Goodwin on 'Doctor De Soto' and Sparking Imagination Through Storytelling

Episode Transcript
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Jay Ray (00:15):
On this episode of Queue Points, we welcome Idris Goodwin.
Idris Goodwin is an award-winningcreative driven by a passion
for impactful storytelling.
Currently serving as Artistic Directorof Seattle Children’s Theater,
Idris writes, directs, programsand /or produces relevant content

(00:36):
for intergenerational audiences.
Recognized as a culture bearer whocelebrates community values and cultivates
histories with care, Goodwin’s impactspans generation and artistic mediums,
with well over 60 original plays producedcoast to coast, from Oregon Shakespeare

(00:56):
Festival to The John F Kennedy Center.
Several of these works are published,as are his forays into poetry and
prose, including the collections CanI Kick It and These Are The Breaks.
Harper Collins Clarion releasedhis 1st picture book, Your
House is Not Just A House.

(01:18):
A performer and recording artist, he’screated original video content for
and/or appeared on Wondery, Nickelodeon,HBO Def Poetry, Sesame Street, NPR,
BBC Radio, and the Discovery Channel.
Before stepping into his current tenurewith SCT, Idris served as Artistic

(01:39):
Director of StageOne Family Theatrein Louisville, as well as Executive
Director of The Colorado SpringsFine Arts Center at Colorado College,
where he also taught as a professor inThe Department of Theater and Dance.
As Board President of Theater ForYoung Audiences/USA, he is a champion

(01:59):
for theater makers and institutionswith a stated focus on cultivating
the arts patrons of tomorrow.
King Of The Neuro Verse, his 1stnovel, will be released in 2025.
We spoke to Idris in December 2024 ashe was preparing for his newest play,
Doctor De Soto, to hit the stage.

(02:23):
Doctor De Soto opens at the AllianceTheater in Atlanta on January 18th
and runs through March 2, 2025.

DJ Sir Daniel (02:32):
Jay Ray, guess what?

Jay Ray (02:34):
What's up?

Today's queued up guest is no stranger to Queue Points, right?
As a matter of fact.
I got to experience his magic whenI attended a magical production of
his stage play, The Boy Who Kissedthe Sky, here at the Alliance
Theater in Atlanta about a year ago.
And Jay Ray, we also had thepleasure of interviewing the co

(02:58):
musical directors, IV, last year.
And now, bringing it all back, wehave the honor of speaking with
the author, Playwright and MC.
We're going to find out about that.
I'm talking about none otherthan today's guest Idris Goodwin.

(03:21):
Welcome Idris.

Idris Goodwin (03:22):
What's going on, y'all?

How are you feeling today?
I just want to do aquick checking with you.
How are you feeling?
And, um, you know, you're in themoment, you're in the moment right now,
getting to play this, this new stageplay that we're about to talk about.
You're in the midst of that, but howare you doing in this, at this moment?

Oh, you know, it's always good to be in Atlanta.
Um, I was, uh, you know, my,my, I grew up coming here a lot.
I got hella family out here.
Uh, I was actually just backhere a couple of weeks ago.
Cause great.
Granny turned a hundred years old.

Oh,

Jay Ray (03:53):
granny.

yeah, so I'm very comfortable here.
I'm very familiar here.
Working at Alliance is always a treat.
Uh, they treat me well here.
I've had a few shows here before, likethe Boy who Kissed this guy that you
mentioned, as well as, uh, adaptationof Jason Reynolds ghosts as well.
I've been here a lot of timesfor conferences and other things.
So, uh, I'm doing quite well, man, andwe're in the room where it happens.

(04:15):
We're, we're, we're rehearsingstarting to kick the tires.
I've been revisions, so yeah, just,uh, and a and, but a great, great, um,
to take a break to get to talk to youbrothers about, uh, about this piece.

Jay Ray (04:29):
Yeah.

it.
I just also want to checkin quickly with you.
You know, um, we can't get around it.
Um, we recently lost, um, who is, well,we had now have a new ancestor, right?
And Nikki Giovanni.
And as a playwright and author, you know,what impact has her work had on you?

(04:50):
Yes, there

Ego Trip and, or Ego Trip.
Um,

Jay Ray (05:01):
Yeah.

um, and you know, I am in that lineage of
griots, black arts movement.
um, I had the pleasure toactually, um, curate an event.
that featured Nikki Giovanni back inthe day at the Hothouse in Chicago.
Um, and it was an amazing experience.
I'll never forget it.
I remember my mom and one of herhomegirls drove all the way up
from Detroit to see, to see it.

(05:25):
Cause, uh, you know, Nikki was, was,was always on our shelves growing up.
So Nikki Giovanni, Maya Angelou,like, you know, we go down the line.
So yeah, yeah.
Rest in, rest in poetry, um, Queen Nikki.
Yeah,

Jay Ray (05:39):
Um, once again, thank you so much for the work that you do.
I am curious, before we jump intothis upcoming work for Doctor De
Soto, um, can we talk a bit aboutthe importance of music for children?
Because that's like a consistentthing that we see in your work,

(06:03):
particularly your work for kids.
Can you talk about the importance of that?

Oh, well, I mean, look, first and foremost, the first
kind of writing I did as a, as ayoung Thundercat was, was lyrics.
Um, I drew comics and I startedwriting lyrics to rap songs,
you know, rap songs and whatnot.
And that, that.
always spoke to me.
I found out later that it'sbecome a lifelong struggle

(06:31):
with neurodivergency, ADHD.
And, you know, and it answered a lot ofquestions for me about challenges I had in
school growing up with the written word.
And, um, And some of this is the subject.
I have a, I have a, uh, a novel comingin, in, uh, 2025, uh, called king of the
neural verse, which is it's fictional,but it's very much based on, uh, that,

(06:54):
that challenge in that time of my life.
Um, but anyway, uh, sothe, but the music always
gave me clarity, uh, you know, veryintuitively, um, I was, I was wired in and
there was always music in the household.
Um, and the music, especially like, youknow, pre internet, know, music, more

(07:17):
particularly specifically black music,had, it carried so much history in it,
you know, it carried, So much in it.
It was so jam packed, much like our food.
You know, it is, it has got layersand levels and richness to it because
it's doing, it's doing all this work.
It's, it's carrying the history.
It's the word on the street.
It's the, you know, it's all of it.

(07:39):
Right.
And it also is trying to makeyou move and feel good too.
Right.
So it is ethos, pathos, and Youknow, all of that, all of those is,

Jay Ray (07:49):
Yeah.

you know, in one.
So for me, um, I think for the performingarts, for theater, you know, it's
storytelling, but it's live storytellingand, you know, and, or like, you know,
it's, it's in the tradition of theblack church, like it's the living word.
And there is a, there's,it's a dialogue, like

Jay Ray (08:09):
Mm hmm.

live performance is a dialogue.
Um, you know, I just watched the, um,the Jamie Foxx special last night.

Jay Ray (08:15):
Mm hmm.

Um, which, which was shot here in Atlanta, uh, on, on the stage
where Boy Who Gets the Sky, uh, was

Jay Ray (08:22):
Yes.

So I was like, oh snap.
I can say I've shared the stage with Jamie

Jay Ray (08:26):
Yeah!

Um, yeah.

you go.

I'm lying.
Tell me I'm lying.

Heh heh heh heh.

I love about his performance, is that to me, it
just reminds, it was such a, itwas, it was like a revivalist.
Like he's doing testimony,

Jay Ray (08:37):
Mm hmm.

songs, he's telling jokes.
The audience is, is a scene partner with

Yes.

And to me, like that is a distinctly, you know, you
know, I think that is a very Africanthing, but it's definitely a, a,
a black American, uh, aesthetic.

Jay Ray (08:54):
Yes.

how we get down.
And so for me, know, my work as aplaywright, it was like, cool, I'm
going to follow the fundamentaltenets of Western drama, right?
Of narrative.
But within there, there is roomfor me to, uh, sprinkle in or
bring in any, any, any, any of thethings I got in my, in my toolbox.

(09:17):
Right.
And so, because I started withlyrics, uh, in the rap tradition,
which is, which is on the branch ofthe blues, which is, you know, make
it, make it plain as the pastor says,

Jay Ray (09:27):
Mm hmm.

make it plain, make it memorable, make it funky.
And so that is, uh, to me,the role of, I mean, listen, I
approach plays or really any of theliving word, the time based word.
it, um, like it's all music.
It's all falling.
It's all rhythmic.
It's all, it's falling.
Like it's not behind you.

(09:50):
It's not behind you.
It's not in front of you.
It's just right here in front of you.
It's just now

Mmm.

and it's and if it's on the one, um, you know, it's
gonna make the body react and do

Jay Ray (10:01):
Mm hmm.
Amazing.

So, so to me, I always jokingly say I don't write musicals.
I just write musical plays.
Um, uh, but it really is like that, butthat's just how I exist in the world, man.
Like I just, It's always,the music is always there.
I'm always listening to it.
I'm always, you know, it's always,it's how I approach a lot of things.

So tell us about Doctor De Soto.
Opening January 18th, uh, here at theHertz stage at the Alliance Theater.
And, um, what can, I know this is akid's play, like for starting for six
and up, but what can adults learn fromthis production of Doctor De Soto?

That's a great question.
Um, so Doctor De Soto is abook I loved when I was a kid.
It's picture books by William Stieg.
William Stieg's biggest claim tofame is he wrote the book that
the Shrek series is based on.
So, um, but he's got awhole body of picture books.
Um, and he is, he is, um, I,I consider him, he's like, um,

(11:08):
of more of a contemporary, likeGrimm's brothers kind of vibe

Okay.

he, he was never, he's not afraid to, put his heroes in real danger

Yeah.

and peril.
And there's always like, You know,they're not, they're not like super,
you know, create, you know, out therelike that, but like he would, he
wouldn't, you know, you'll, you'll see,you'll just see what I, what I mean.
So, um, but he reminds mealso of like Aesop as well.
So like, you know, animals like predatorsand prey interacting, that kind of thing.

(11:39):
So Doctor De Soto, Is about, um, uh,a husband and wife team, they run a
dental office and because they're mice,they can climb inside the mouths of
larger animals and do a really goodjob, intricate job cleaning their teeth.
And they're the best.
Everybody loves the, the sodos, butbut they have a sign that says, no,

(12:02):
no, we will not treat any carnivores.

Hmm.

like if you, if you out in the streets, gobbling up smaller mammals.

Right.

keep pushing.
keep, take it down the road.
one day a fox shows up,

Hmm.

you know, in, in just pain, just, just whimpering,
just, just, just a mess.
And they take sympathy on thisfox and they say, come on up here.
Come on, come on.
And they, and they, and theyput, they, they, um, they say
you got a rotten by cuspid.
And so, um, they put the foxunder and when the fox is under.
It's like muttering to us.
It's like, yeah, they'regoing to be delicious.

(12:40):
Right.

Hmm.

De Soto and his wife are in a conundrum now.
Right.
Because, you know, they, theyhave this model when they, when
they start a job, they finish it.
they pull, they pull the toothout, but then the fox got to come
back to get the new tooth put in.
And, and so they're like,what are we going to do?
Like on one hand, You know,he was, he was under, we may

(13:05):
not have heard what we heard.
Seems like a nice enough Fox,certainly well dressed, you know.
So what is we to do, right?
Do we, do we turn this Foxaway in the middle of this job?
just because of our fear, do wefigure out how we, how we can
have it both ways, so to speak.
So, so, you know, it's a verysimple, lovely, story in, in its,

(13:30):
in its, in its, uh, printed form.
And I think what I responded to as a kidwas just like the simplicity of that,
like, you know, it's like the small andthe large, but you know, to now get very
egghead y about it, um, What it, whatit's ultimately about is something that
is very real that we as adults deal withall the time too, which is like these

(13:52):
tough calls when our, when our valuesof collide with, you know, our needs
to survive or, or our fears really,if we're keeping it a buck, right.
It's like, you know, what is,what is good, you know, good
sense versus, um, what's right.
You know,

Jay Ray (14:12):
Mhm.
Mhm.

I think that is 100 percent what I think the role of theater
is in the lives of, of young peopleis to, is to show them choices and
to show them difficult choices thatdifferent kinds of characters approach
good, bad, or otherwise, you know, andthat's, those are the tools for life.
It's like, you will have a choice.
You will need to make a choice.
And whether you make theright one or the wrong one.

(14:36):
You then have to deal with the constant,you know, the aftermath of those
choices, good, bad or otherwise, right?
So you're constantly making choices.
Um, you know, on another level, though,what, what was really appealing to
me as a theater maker and a theaterperson was, you know, In the book,
you see this, they play with scale.
And so in the opening pages of thebook, it's like everybody was rocking

(14:59):
with the de Soto's, like other mice andgophers and other small animals, mammals.
But, but, but like the hooved communitywas rocking with them big time.
So like, there's a image of, DoctorDe Soto's wife, like cranking him
up on this pulley to like be inthe, in the inside of this mule's

Jay Ray (15:17):
Yeah.

like as big old mule, this big old cow with the mouth open.
And I'm like, wow.
Like, how do you do that on set?
How do you do scale on stage?
Right.
Like, how do you play with, know,these, these perceptions of big
and small, uh, on, on, on stage.
So that is like the Genesis.
And so, you know, I, I liketo think of myself as, as
writing for multi generational

Jay Ray (15:38):
Mhm.

kids don't.
don't come to the theater by themselves

Well, yeah.

Jay Ray (15:50):
Right.

time too.
Cause the fundamentals ofgood storytelling are age.
That doesn't matter what age you are,you know, Kung Fu Panda four was fire.
You know, my wife and I used togo on dates and see Pixar movies
before we even had children.
So like good stories are good stories.
And it does, it really doesn't matter.
And it's a very human thing to likeidentify with another human being.
So what we, what what we're makingright now and shout out Director, uh,

(16:14):
Mark Valdez and Chris Moses, um, andTanasha for, um, know, our wonderful
artistic directors of the Lions.
All the support.
We got a huge team.
It's gonna be a really coolfeast of cool costumes.
puppetry, shadow puppetry, you know,lights inside, you know, and we're
going to be in a relatively, theHertz stage is a very intimate space.

(16:35):
And so we're going to play with this,this, this piece about creatures big
and small and a really tight space.
So it's really, about theatricality,which is the other thing I love.
I love showing people, especially inthis increasingly digital world that,
you know, you can, you can You cando slights of hands and tricks and
play, you can do it in very simpleways, you know, shadow puppetry.

(16:57):
I love because it's just light.
It's just

Jay Ray (16:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.

it's yin and yang, you know what I'm saying?
It's just light and darknessand just playing with that.
So anyway, um, so yeah, it'sgot something for everybody.
fun.
It's silly.
There's a lot of like rhyming and musicin it inevitably just cause why not?
Um, and, uh, the one change I did fromthe book is I added, and not the one
change, I would say the most significantchange is that in the book, it's just Dr.

(17:23):
Mrs.
De Soto in my jam.
Uh, there's, there's young De Soto.

Jay Ray (17:28):
Let

who grew, grows up in this family business and is

Okay.

is, is almost like a young apprentice and is, and of
course is ready, is ready to go.
It's like, I'm 10, I'm double digits.
Like, let me, let me get in

Jay Ray (17:41):
me get up in that cow's mouth and

Yes.
this bicuspid out, youknow, and pops is like,
Chill.
Slow down.
Laughter

calm, calm the tape, you know what I'm saying?
And, um, and so it's, it's also aboutthat too, about, you know, young De Soto
makes these, These choices that put thewhole family and the business at risk too.
So it is also about that too.
It's like to face the musicand when your ambition gets,
you know, whatever, whatever.
So anyway, uh, it's a good time.
It's a good time.
We'll get you in and out in an hour or so.

Jay Ray (18:11):
man, listen, I, I actually, hopefully I will be in Atlanta
during the dates of this performance.
I think I will.
So I'm looking forward to takingthis in, but you actually, um, were
talking about this in your answer.
you were talking about all the peoplethat are working that are working
with you to like in the theater tobring this thing to life, right?

Yeah.

Jay Ray (18:34):
one of the things I was talking to Sir Daniel about was the thing that
really stood out to me, um, and itfeels just very Black, is community
taking care of each other, right?

Mm.

Jay Ray (18:45):
So the Doctor De Soto and his wife are like members of this community
and there's all of these people, right,that are all of these, all of these,
uh, these animals that are differentfrom them in the community that they
are also choosing to take care of.
And I just wanted to get you to waxpoetic a bit about the importance of

(19:06):
community in your work, like you, likedisplaying that in the work, because
we could see that as well in the, the,the boy who kissed the sky to this

course.

Jay Ray (19:16):
of that, that interplay.

Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I think there's a thingthat was just ingrained in me a little
bit about being, being of service andbeing, and being like, you know, what
and, and, and, and, and a thing aroundlike, you know, so, so boy, boy, boy
who kissed the sky, uh, is, is very, uh,much inspired by the Jimi Hendrix story,

Yes.

Um, I have another play called And In This Corner, Cash is
Clay, which is about Muhammad Ali'syoung life in Louisville, Kentucky.
Um, and so, there's there's thisinterest I have these stories about
these great people, these icons,um, at Seattle Children's Theater,
we're producing, I'm not writingthis one, but I'm producing it.

(20:01):
Uh, we're, we're doing a storyabout Bruce Lee's years in Seattle.

Jay Ray (20:05):
Wow.

there a relative short amount of time, but he's, he's
buried there now as his, his son.
And most people don't, know that storyor why people assume he's buried in
Hollywood or Hong Kong, but therewas this really interesting time
in his life when he was like aboutto start college and everything.
So there's something about, there'ssomething about, um, and for me in these

(20:28):
kinds of stories, I often look to whowere the mentors, who were the people in
their community, who were their friends,

Jay Ray (20:34):
Yeah.

it's about how these people influence them
and shape the thing we know.
So we already know, you know, we seethese people on the posters and in the
documentaries, we know Muhammad Alithe greatest and rumble in the jungle
and, and you know, uh, uh, what is it?
Conscious, uh, conscientious objector.
Uh, we know about all that.

(20:56):
Right.
But we don't, but not a lot of people knowat what age he started boxing and why,

Mhm.

um,

Mhm.

And, and, and that he was fighting on local TV at age 12 and
that he had two trainers, he had a whitetrainer and a black trainer, like, you
know, um, we don't know this stuff.
And so, and so again, itis about the way that.
community influences and shapesus, especially when we're young
often present us with those, as Italked about before, those choices,

Jay Ray (21:26):
Yes.

They influence our choices.
They activate our choices.
They pick us up when we makea choice that knocks us down,
you know, et cetera, et cetera.
So, you know, and then also to takeit further theater in and of itself
is for me is about, know, I'm writing.
writing something that'sgoing to gather people.
I'm very conscious of that, that I amwriting, not only gathering a creative

(21:50):
team, you know, actors, designers,whatever, but then gathering an
audience as well, and we're goingto go on this, this journey together
and have this conversation together.
So I think, you know,intuitively perhaps I am.
In the case of De Soto, it's ironicyou say that because I think the,
the, theater writer slash producerin me was like, Oh, this is actually

(22:15):
a very small, like it's, it's Mr.
It's Dr.
and Mrs.
De Soto and then the Fox.
was like, that's, that's pretty smart.
And they're, they'remostly in this one space.
Right.

Jay Ray (22:24):
Right.

as we've evolved it, you know, it has become about,
um, how they engage with othermembers of the animal world.

Jay Ray (22:35):
Yeah.

how important that is.
So even inevitably, uh, you know,these other, these other, you know,
the, the, the, um, the lens widens.
Right.
Yeah.

Jay Ray (22:45):
Idris Goodwin, thank you so much, brother, for the work that you are doing.
Um, the ability to justkind of spark imagination.
You know, as we get older, right.
As.
adults.
We grow up and our imagination gets justlike life hammers that thing out of us.
But you are doing the work to remindadults about the importance of imagination

(23:09):
and to spark children's imagination.
So we all are ready forDoctor De Soto, sir.
So thank you so much for joining us hereat Queue Points and doing your work, man.
This is done.

so much my honor, thanks guys

Absolutely.
Like I always say in thislife, you have a choice.
You can either pick up the needleor you can let the record play.
I'm DJ Sir Daniel,

Jay Ray (23:32):
My name is Jay Ray, y'all.

and this has been Queue Points podcast, dropping
the needle on black music history.
We will see you on the next go round.
Peace.

Jay Ray (23:40):
Peace, y'all.

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Idris Goodwin on 'Doctor De Soto' and Sparking Imagination Through Storytelling

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