R. Kelly’s Legacy: Is He Really America’s Greatest Songwriter?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
DJ Sir Daniel (00:16):
Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast.
I'm DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray (00:20):
And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government
as Johnnie Ray Kornegay the third.
And real quick, Sir Daniel, I wantto send love and a shout out to Phi
Beta Sigma Fraternity Incorporated.
Today is our founder's day, 111 years.
So shout out to all the brothers of Sigma.
Love y'all and we hear sir.

(00:43):
Daniel.
This is our first public live of 2025 Wedid a live but it was a private one last.

Oh, yes.
Yes.
You like wait a

Jay Ray (00:52):
minute.

We was

Jay Ray (00:53):
live

last week No, but you're absolutely correct.
Um, yes, this is our first live andbecause we are the the podcast dropping
the needle on black music history, youknow, we You know Gotta keep shout.
We gotta a shout out to, to the Divine.
So shout out to you and your brothers.
Yes.
Um, it was nothing but blue andwhite all on my timeline today.

(01:13):
Yes.
So I was like, it gotta be, it gottabe Founder's Day for the brothers . And
um, also before we get started, um,we want to give, to send Massive love.
Yes.
And um, and just prayers tothe people in Los Angeles.
Right now, who are, you know, fightingfor their lives, basically making sure

(01:33):
that they evacuate, um, if they haveto evacuate because of those ongoing
fires, I heard something very importanttoday that needed to be said, um, a lot
of us who are outside of Los Angeleslooking in might believe that it.
These fires are onlyaffecting rich people.

Jay Ray (01:55):
That is not

true.
That's not the case.
There are a lot of people whoare low income, middle income,
middle class, um, who are justbeing disenfranchised as we speak.
So I think we need to, youknow, turn up the empathy.

Jay Ray (02:11):
Absolutely.
I think it's really every timethere is A natural disaster.
Literally my reflex is if aperson is poor, what do they do?
Like when they need to evacuate,like, how do they evacuate?
If you are an individual that doesnot have a mode of transportation and

(02:31):
they're like, you need to leave yourarea and you need to go somewhere.
Like, where do you go?
And this is where, when we talk about,um, Public resources and all of that
that this is why voting is reallyimportant like we have to be able to
do it Because this is devastating.
I have seen so many images Um, we'veseen video i've actually talked to

(02:53):
people so i've reached out to some ofour people Um to make sure that they
were good now that was yesterday.
I got to check in with people todayYeah, because it's a day by day thing.
And so Listen empathy turn up theempathy because I can't imagine So
Daniel, I literally was like, I'venever seen anything like this before.
I can't imagine what Iwould do in this situation.

Yeah.
Same, same over here.
Um, also thinking about us here inGeorgia, you know, we're keeping
our fingers crossed here in Georgia.
Cause mother nature is aboutis doing her big one right now.
Yes.
All across the nation.
And, um, yeah, justeverybody just be safe.
And, um, And keep in contact withyour loved ones, whether they're on

(03:41):
the East Coast or the West Coast.
And just, you know, key points wewanted to show our love to you guys and
just make sure that you're doing good.
And just, of course, lettingus know if we need to amplify a
signal for you, if you need help.
Let us know and we'll do what wecan to, on our end, as far as our
resources to help amplify the word.

Jay Ray (04:03):
Yeah.
So definitely want to send, um, wejust put that up from Mark McPherson.
Shout out to Mark.
Thank you so much for, forjoining us, Mark, um, as always.
And Mark was just saying, um,the fire has impacted his family.
Uh, a cousin lost her home and ahusband and a, and another doesn't
know if his home is still there.

Yeah.

Jay Ray (04:23):
My goodness.

That see, those are the types of things that, We just don't
think about, we don't think about thosethings and until they happen to you.
Yep.
So what we like to do here, you know,at Queue Points, um, you know, maybe
this, you're not listening to thiswhile we're broadcasting live, but
you're listening to this at anothertime and it's giving you some, some joy.

(04:47):
That's cause that's what we want to do.
So we, J.
Ray and I, you know, we get,sometimes we don't eat these topics
literally just fall into our laps.

Jay Ray (04:56):
Yes.

Because a lot of people, you know, you got
to love social media for this.
A lot of people have a lot of hot takes.
I mean really hot takes and let's see.
Let's start.
Do we want to start off with the tweet?
Let's

Jay Ray (05:10):
let's start with it.
Let's start with the tweet.
This is so you saw this.
Sir, Daniel, I have a question.
Well, first of all, we're goingto read the tweet And so Daniel,
please what is this tweet?
And what was your first thoughtwhen you read it because you
shared it with me and I was like,

huh?
so apparently, um Sade x goddess ondecember 29th Had an epiphany That r
kelly wrote michael jackson's you were notalone and she went to x and tweeted it.
Yes You So Mr.
WizArab10 responded, quote tweeted,um, Sade, quote tweeted her and said,

(05:57):
There is no better writer in thehistory of American music than R.
Kelly.
And of course, that set offquite the sandstorm of, you know,
Tweets, replies, clapbacks, um,videos, it just, it went viral.

(06:21):
Of course, as you can see down there,that, that tweet alone has gotten what?

Jay Ray (06:27):
What is this right here?
3.
1 million views.

That just to let you, that just lets you know how polarizing R.
Kelly.
Is even when we're not talking aboutthe, you know, the behaviors that landed
him in prison, you know, people aremaking these hot takes about him being
the best American songwriter ever.

(06:54):
And then to top it all.
On top of all of that, you know,Teedra Moses has been in the news.
She's, you know, her tiny, since hertiny desk, she's been popping up on
interviews and whatnot, and she madea stop at the R&B Money podcast.
She did podcast, uh, with tank and,um, I forget the other hosts, but

(07:15):
she made a comment regarding R Kellythat set Twitter on fire as well.
And I believe we have a clip of that.

Jay Ray (07:22):
We do have a clip
of that.
Adore you by Prince.
Greatest Sex, R.
Kelly.
What a song!
You can close your eyes andsee everything he's saying.
I was so angry when I heard that song.

(07:46):
How did you get to anger?
Because in my mind, I was alwayscompeting against him, even
though I wasn't at that time.
Space yet.
And I was like, he's still so much better.
The honest

(08:06):
here inside my what do you sayhere on inside this bed of mine?
I see ceiling fans and you on top of me.
If you close your eyes, you can see it.
Everything's in inside these walls.
There was well a Capricorn top 5 RB songs.

Huh?
So I believe okay.
So Jay Ray, what is your reaction to that?
And I'll let you knowhow come back to you.

Jay Ray (08:36):
Um, so
I think two things canbe true at the same time.

Mm hmm.

Jay Ray (08:45):
Um, As someone who has liked a lot of R.
Kelly songs over the years, right?
Um, I, I rebuke myself for, for likingR Kelly for longer than I should have.
And I think I've talked aboutthat on this show, right?

(09:07):
I think two things canbe true at the same time.
I, um, I, I, I do not think that R Kellyis the greatest American songwriter.
The reason why, by the way, I hoveredover Sir Dixon's name is because I
was like, is this person like a troll?
And then I'm like, Oh, he has like 500and he has like half a million followers.
So he's not a troll.

(09:27):
Right.
So I Tiedra and tank are not off withthe greatest sex, especially when you
like jump into like lyrics like that.
And you're like, yeah, like that is.
Well crafted and interesting andI can see all the things and I

(09:49):
get where they're coming from.
I don't think it was worth.
I don't think all of thevitriol that Tidra got.
After that was worth it.
I also don't think Teidra'sresponses were worth it either stuff.

(10:10):
Many things can be true at the same time.
Like, I feel like there'sa lot of mess to go around.
There's some mess with how she responded.
There's some mess with the factthat we're talking about R Kelly and
having to, at this point, and I feellike we have to do this reckon with
his legacy, which is huge and vast.

(10:31):
Um, And the fact that I think peoplebe crazy on Twitter when they say stuff
like he's the greatest songwriter Idon't think that that's true, but I
don't necessarily I don't think t draand tank are wrong But I do think some
of the tweets that t dra made were wrong.
It's a lot going on with it.
It's a lot

Yeah, I think so Basically, I think that Tidra became the
target of a lot of women specificallybecame the target because a lot of
women feel like what happened in the R.
Kelly situation as a woman, you shouldbe as bothered and troubled by, um, The

(11:16):
things that happen to these other youngwomen and that you as a woman should
have want nothing to do with this andthen speaking out and still calling
his name and giving him, you know,accolades about his talents is somehow
cheapening and lessening the, um, whathappened to these people, the victims,

(11:39):
the people that had these experiences.
And so.
Yes, I think all of that people,sometimes it does, it just takes
one person to become a target andto become a focal point for all of
those thoughts that people have.
And so that day justhappened to be Teedra Moses.
And now they've been whacking tankabout, cause tank, this ain't the

(12:01):
first time tank is, has been calledR Kelly's name on their podcast.
And they've been whacking thepeople who've been whacking
tank about that for a while too.
So it's like, there's just,so then it makes me think.
Like, okay, is it worth it?
Is R.
Kelly's music that good to becalling out his name constantly

(12:25):
and to risk, you know, the vitriolof the public coming down on you?
So that's a question thatpopped up in my mind.
And then when I got to thinking aboutit, I started thinking, Oh, I think.
I understand why R Kelly's musicstill has a chokehold on black people.

Jay Ray (12:42):
But let us have it.
The DJ.
So Daniel, we need a, weneed a sound for this.
DJ.
So Daniel theory,

you know, guys, I have, I have a theory.
I have thoughts.
Okay.
So
It's threefold.
So I believe R Kelly, I believe.
I believe I can
fly.
R Kelly came along at a very specific time.

(13:09):
And he was able to master theR& B bad boy trope with a mix
of sensitivity and sensuality.
I believe.
He came at the right time.
He came on the coat on the coattails ofJodeci and Bobby Brown and I'll be sure
and he took that trope of bad boy andjust turn it up like he he turned it up

(13:34):
bit by bit just to see how much we couldtake and and and the public was loving it.
You know, women specifically, womenspecifically loved what R Kelly was
giving, what he presented, what herep, what he was presenting to them
physically, you know, he's at that time.

(13:54):
Um, you know, male R& B singersreally had to, not only did you have
to sound good, you had to look good.
So you know, he had the body.
He was, um, he had at every chance hecould, you know, give you like somebody
who may or may not have been in prison atone point, you know, and was giving you.

(14:14):
Kind of, I just got out of prisonfashions, but I'm, I'm singing to you
at the same time and I want to makeyou feel safe and I'm, I'm going to sex
you up and down and all around and justmake you feel, you feel really good.
So he met, but he was able to do othersongs where he was able to, you know,
sprinkle sensitivity in there and, youknow, I want to, you know, make you feel

(14:38):
like he's about to cry and, and we atethat, excuse me, we ate that stuff up.
We ate it up.
Women ate it up.
And so he endeared himself to thepublic using that bad boy trope
and fusing it with sensitivity.
Second part.

(14:58):
The black community, we havecontinuously had this back and
forth conversation or this back andforth about The idea of masculinity
and
how it should look and be performed.
And R.
Kelly just happened to come alongand fulfill that and be like, Hey,

(15:22):
that's something I can point to.
That's what a real man does.
I can feel by proxy, I can talk tomy woman through R Kelly and exhibit
maleness, masculineness, and, you know,take you down just by singing and take
you down with these lyrics and, you know,You know, that's something that we held

(15:43):
on to, you know, that's a good black man.
That's a, you know, he'sa sensual black man.
We, he's our, he's our generations,Teddy Pendergrass and Marvin Gaye all
rolled into one and, you know, andhe looked like a man, man, you know?
So.
And those are things that the blackcommunity is constantly grasping for.
Sure.

(16:03):
Whether we want to admit it ornot, we are constantly grasping for
it, we are constantly pointing toexamples to show what is, and now
more than ever, what is not consideredmasculine or manly in the community.
And so that, so that, those thingskeep us in a chokehold, kept, R.
Kelly kept us in a chokehold.
And last but not least.

(16:24):
Jay Ray, R.
Kelly's music is directly associatedwith good times and nostalgia.

Jay Ray (16:30):
Yes.
Point

blank period.

Jay Ray (16:32):
Yeah.

There's no, like, if you're a certain age, I believe
I Can Fly was sung at your, atyour high school graduation.
It was sung at yourkindergarten graduation.
Yes, it was.
Okay, yeah, he did what all singers dowhen they want to make people cry and
feel emotions He brings out a blackchoir To sing behind him and sing.

(16:54):
I believe I can fly Um samething with you are not alone.
Yeah You know, those are, thoseare things that we hold on to that
meant something to us that are,um, that was sung at our baptism.
You are not alone because I'm walking,you know, um, Jesus is walking with me.
R Kelly made me feel that and let's not,we popping, popping bottles in the club

(17:15):
and having fun and, you know, grindingon each other to the, to the remix.
And this is the remix to ignition.
It was a, it was a good time.
Those were like the gold.
They refer to that as thegolden era for a reason.
Yeah, it was some good times.
I R Kelly was just coming out of everyspeaker and we just cannot let that go.

Jay Ray (17:40):
You are absolutely correct.
I think the other layer to it as well.
In addition to all of thosethree things is that R Kelly.
And I think because of.
Some of his own limitations, right?
And, and, and in the way that he,um, you know, his education and

(18:04):
all of those things communicatedto people was in kind of a way that
there was no ambiguity about what R.
Kelly was talking about, right?
So when we think about Some of the R&B music is so funny, like how it took
us years to figure out that they wastalking about like, Oh, they're talking

(18:26):
about like, I know that's what you are.
My Starship was about until you got,you started to understand nuance.
You started to understandlike, Oh, this is a euphemism
for this other thing, right?
Because as you grow, you get moreeducation and you realize how
to communicate with some nuance.
You know what I mean?
R Kelly didn't do nuance.

No.
Not at all.
You

Jay Ray (18:48):
just didn't do.
And I will tell you, I will tell youwhen I, um, as a former R Kelly fan, I'm
going to keep repeating that because Iwant to be clear that I made a choice.
Oh, in the early two thousands,really, um, to not be an R Kelly fan.

(19:11):
Right.
So just like I stepped in the name oflove, unfortunately, just like with
the best of us, you couldn't avoid it.
It was a feel good song,but whatever, I digress.
The thing that was so dope to me inthe nineties, when R Kelly, when in
particular, when 12 play came out.

(19:32):
Was how unfiltered it was.
So I was a kid, right?
I wanted somebody to say they doingthe thing that they doing, right?
That was edgy and coolto me at the time, right?
Um, it was like, Prince unfiltered,you know what I'm saying?

(19:52):
Cause Prince, it was like Prince,whereas, you know, Prince was,
Prince was a songwriter, right?
So he could write with nuance.
He could also be unfiltered, right?
But that wasn't the lane.
You know what I mean?
Whereas I felt like R.
Kelly was like saying the thing.
And that was reallycool to me at the time.

(20:12):
Why is that important?
I think that is importantbecause We're now at a place
where I wish we had more nuance.
Like, I wish, I wish that folks read more.
I wish that there were more words used.
I wish that folks could learn likenew vocabulary words from music.

(20:34):
We not there anymore.
I think that R.
Kelly didn't force us tothink about it too hard.
We felt he allowed us to justfeel it and experience it.
Those are very valid.
Right.
Sure.
I also would like to be engaged up here.

(20:56):
R.
Kelly, to the point, it was feel good.
You felt it here.
You felt it in your groin.
You felt it whereveryou was going feeling.
It wasn't necessarily thatyou had to think about it.
You was just feeling it.
And I, and I think.
That is also a thing that made folks lovethe music that he was making at the time.

(21:18):
Um, and is also a thing.
It's the, it's the, it'sthe good and the bad of it.
I think people saw that
That he was able to do this right now.
Not keep not even recognizing that hehad all these other talents to write.
So it wasn't just, you know, the lyrics.

(21:39):
It was like the music and thecomposition and all those other things,
which were natural talents for him,but I think that everybody saw that
and was like, I want to do that.
That's great.
I want to do that.
It kind of left the other stuff aloneand I'm like, yeah, that was cool.

(22:00):
But this other thing is cool too.
Like everything don't got tosound like 12 play or the R.
Kelly album.
I remember Sir Daniel and I'm going tostop in a minute, but I remember when.
You remind me of something came out Ithought that song was riveting that dude
was literally singing y'all They thisis who the brother said was the greatest

(22:25):
American songwriter that dude literallywrote the lyrics you remind me of my Jeep
Something like my bankaccounts I want to spend it.
What, what, what's happening?

And let's not forget the, the yodeling at the end,

Jay Ray (22:43):
right?

The yodeling
we sometimes when the, when the youngpeople, um, Make fun of us and talk
about y'all are, we are cri uh, uh, talkabout our criticism of their music today.
And they point out certain things.
That's what they think.
That's moment that they point out.
And I'm just like, you got us there.

(23:07):
Yeah,

Jay Ray (23:07):
we, you got us.
We did that.

He yodel.
Yeah, you got us there.
You right, you right.
That was, that was crazy.
You sounded crazy back then.
And to it's, I think you are,you're onto something here.
It's like, there is, there's room.
There's room, there's definitelyroom for the un, the unserious.
There's room for camp.

(23:29):
That's it really is.
I, I think there, I reallythink we need more campiness.
Mm-hmm . We need morecamp in you love camp.
Our culture.
Uh oh.
I love camp.
And, and I think there's, thereshould be room for that only because.
I think we are leaning more on the moredestructive things that, whatever, for

(23:50):
whatever reason, people are finding solaceand finding, you know, Amusement in the
things that are destructive, um, to notonly to ourselves, but to each other.
Um, but yes, I, you're right.
We don't have to think hard when itcomes to listening to a, uh, uh, R Kelly

(24:11):
song and the sons of R Kelly that havecome along and the grand, the grandsons
that he have now that don't even sing.
They, they do this melodic stuff,but they're all, they're all part
of his lineage of saying things.
And then, you know, it's funnywhen we had that conversation
with, um, Leo, for our girl Leo.

(24:36):
And I think she's over, she's over on,

Jay Ray (24:37):
yeah, she's over there on IG.
What's up

Leo?
You know, we had that conversation aboutwomen's, um, Reactions getting less
and less, um, anti whatever the womenbecoming more acclimated to the way
a lot of the singers and rappers weretalking to them and even finding joy.

(25:00):
In the music, you know, we had awhole episode about that and it's got
to be said, you know, I think thatthe more we get things and we accept
them, the less abrasive they may soundand the less crazy they may sound.
But, you know, if you came up in atime like we did where We can tell a

(25:21):
distinct difference when things change.

Jay Ray (25:23):
Yeah,

it still kind of raises an eyebrow and then looking back.
We're like Was he really the greatestsongwriter and we're going to stay
on that because that's what the topicis That's what the topic is is like
does he was he really the greatestsongwriter because now what he was good
at What that is That rascal was goodat, was good at making songs that the

(25:46):
radio, that radio programmers had noproblem putting into heavy rotation.
J.
Ray, right here, right now, back in2005, I remember when the program
director that out at the radio stationthat I was working at told us, and
I was producing a show called LovingRelationships with Joyce Letell on V103.

(26:12):
Our program director came tous and said, Hey guys, you
know, it would be a great idea.
And this is when somebody's, um,They're not telling you what to do,

Jay Ray (26:22):
but they're telling you what to do,

but they're, they're suggesting, suggesting really
heavily that you guys do a showand string all the episodes of R.
Kelly's Trapped in the Closet anddo a whole love and relationships.
Show around trapped in the closet,and I was like what sure okay?

(26:49):
We can do that But it was it wasliterally a no brainer the phone lines
were lit up all night people had allkinds of things to say It was It, he,
he did his, R Kelly did his big onewith that because it got people talking.
It got people trying to guesswhat was going to happen next.
The songs, each one was less thana, if I can remember was less

(27:12):
than a minute and 30 seconds.
Which is, which is again is to his pointis genius because it keeps people wanting
to hear more and then for radio thatwas absolutely, that was a gold mine for
radio because it keeps people tuning in.
So that's what his genius is.
He's good at getting us horny, goodat getting us, you know, turned up.

(27:38):
And, um, and we're nosy.
So, of course, we want to hear, you know,want to hear what the, uh, what's going to
happen next when he opens up the closet.

Jay Ray (27:49):
So, okay, y'all let us know.
Drop it in the chat.
If you want to join us, we are planningto watch trapped in the closet.
I've never seen.
Any of them except of except if i'vecaught a clip, but it's been very few
and far between Literally r kelly doesnot trend in my algorithm really so

(28:11):
I don't really see a lot of r kellystuff But so i've never seen them.
So sir.
Daniel and I are probably going to gettogether And we want to invite you and
for those of y'all that came to ourlive show Let them know how crunk it is
when you come and hang out with QueuePoints Outside of here because we really
get to we really get to talk mess Um,but I want to watch the trapped in the
closet with sir Daniel and we might aswell invite all of y'all because y'all

(28:34):
will want to watch it too We shouldall watch it together like a family.
I want to see trapped in the closet

I see Shaniqua in the chat on IG.
Shaniqua and I were working at the, um, atHMV Record Store during the height of R.
Kelly's superpowers.
So we saw plenty of those CDswalking out of the store because he,
I don't know, he, I really believewhatever magic is associated with the

(29:03):
mythology of the, um, the Pied Piper.
Him him linking himself to that mythologyof the Pied Piper was Was very smart on
his point on his part because he reallydid that there was just something and
this could be said about cult leadersYou know, there was something that was

(29:23):
very Magnetic about him and the thingsthat he was doing that people just ate up

Jay Ray (29:31):
I think I think okay.
So this is the perfect timing totalk about the pop music formula.
Yes, I think this is the perfect timing.
So I'm actually going to pull in therewas a study that came out this year.
Hold on.
I'm gonna put the screen share back up.
There was a study that came out this year.
This is not the study.
This is scientific scientificAmerican did kind of a recap of it.

(29:54):
So I'm gonna read a couple of pieces ofthis 'cause I think it's really important.
So, when comparing today's hit tunes withthe top 40 of the past decades, strong
opinions are never in short supply.
Every generation seems to lamentits successors, musical tastes, and
listening, listening habits, right?
We, we get into the habit of doing that.

(30:16):
What it's saying thoughis new research suggests.
Popular music has indeed undergonesome measurable and significant shifts
over the past 50 years, with popularsong lyrics becoming simpler, And more
repetitive, according to a study publishedon Thursday in Scientific Reports.

(30:39):
Here's a quick quote.
There's more rhyming lines and also morechorus, says the study's senior author,
Eva Zangarelli, a computer scientistat Austria's University of Innsbruck.
We basically found that lyricshave gotten easier to comprehend.

(31:00):
This trend observed across five of themost popular English language music
genres, including rap rock R& B andcountry since 1970 hints at how shifts
in music listening habits Platforms andproduction may be shaping pop culture.
Here's why I wanted to mention thisBecause that's the thing that R.
Kelly figured out.

(31:20):
Yes,

so Sir,

Jay Ray (31:21):
sir, Daniel and I before as we were kind of preparing for this show
Um Um pulled the lyrics to you are notalone, which I always thought was just
like a beautiful song and then i'mlike Oh, this song only has like two
two verses like the song is all verse.
That's it It's like some lyrics,but the lyrics are real pedestrian.

(31:44):
Like there's like a verse.
Let me pull up.
I'm pulling it up.
Please do you are not alone.
We are going to read the lyrics to you arenot alone together and you will understand
exactly what we're talking about here.

Program directors all that what they're looking
for is there they they need whatwe're talking about that era.
What was attractive to a program directoris whether the song was going to keep
people tuned into their radio station.
Um, for the amount of time that thesong was on so that they could sell
you stuff after the song was played.

(32:19):
Yep, and then and then they willprogram it so it can be played
again long enough so you can stay.
And listen to, for the song to be playedagain so they can sell you more stuff.
That's why it's called programming.
And so the music had to fit into thatin order for them to sell more stuff,
they had to have so short enough to playput in rotation so they can have more

(32:43):
commercials put in to sell you stuff.
And so, as we see here, goahead with the, I'm going to

Jay Ray (32:49):
just, I want people to understand.
All right.
So.
This is You Are Not Alone.
When you go through and youread the lyrics, I'm just
going to read the first verse.
Another day has gone.
I'm still all alone.
How could this be?
You are not here with me.
You never said goodbye.
Someone tell me why did you haveto go and leave my world so cold?

(33:12):
And then, We go and we slip into the,the, the, the, uh, the chorus every day.
I sit and ask myselfhow they love sip away.
Something whispers in my earsand says, you are not alone.
And then we go through the,you're a lot alone, lone, lone.
Then we have.
A verse which makes sense.
We got a second verse.
Okay, cool So then wedo a little bit of that.
All right, that's the second verse I'm notgonna read it all the way through Okay,

(33:35):
then we hop back into that chorus, right?
Then we're gonna give you a littleA little bit we're gonna give you
like a vamp then we're gonna hopright back into that chorus, right?
And we just ride that course outfor the rest of the song, right?
Now

michael jackson do what michael jackson michael jackson

Jay Ray (33:51):
does right now This is not i'm not saying that this is unlike other
songs that other songs don't have similarstructures That's not what i'm saying.
What i'm saying is r kelly veryearly figured out that I only
need to give them a little bit.
I need to give them a Idon't need to overthink these
verses I need to make them.

(34:12):
I need to make them clear andconcise Give them some hot vamps
and a great hook and a great chorus.
And we're going to ridethat thing out four minutes.

And less than that, and shout out to Shaniqua to, um, bringing
up Mariah Carey and her 5 words.
Yes.
I love a good Mariah Carey, 5 word.
I love the fact that she couldput, she could fit incessantly.
Into a song lyric, I'm all for it,but even Mariah Carey, you know, she,
she's going to give you a thoughtfullyric, but all artists after a while,

(34:48):
they figured out, Oh, we've got to,in order for our songs to make it.
To um, to airplay, we've gotta,we've gotta um, make it concise.
We've gotta dumb it down a littlebit and even take out bridges.
And that's what a lot of peopleare complaining about now is that
songs don't have bridges anymore.

Jay Ray (35:08):
I want a bridge!
Listen, we need to campaign.
Queue Points has always beencampaigning for the bridge.
Bring back the bridge.
We want to understand the song.
We need time to get into this thing.
So baby, I need you to bridge meand to tell me what we need to know.

That's why here at Queue Points, we always speak Michelle
Williams, the black Michelle Williams.
We always speak her name becauseshe is the queen of bridge.
You know, Beyonce

Jay Ray (35:35):
was in the studio.
Michelle, Go in and do your thing.
Go and handle

that.
Go and handle that for me.

Jay Ray (35:40):
Okay, but I do want to, the beauty, I'm so glad you mentioned Mariah.
We also, Laura Hill put theword reciprocity into a song.

Reciprocity.
Stop it now.

Jay Ray (35:54):
Stop it.
I'm just I'm just
That's a five syllable word

that you

Jay Ray (36:02):
have to

sing real quick.
Jay Ray are we haven't chatted withour buddy in a long time, but Daryl.
Darryl is in the chat on Instagram.
We gotta shout out our friend Darryl.
We, we are praying for youout there on the West Coast.
I hope you're all good.
I saw you post earlier that you'regood and I want to make sure that
you're still staying good out there.

(36:24):
And we, you know, we're thinkingabout you and the whole West and the
whole Los Angeles in this moment.

Jay Ray (36:29):
Yes.
So y'all and you know, it's so funny.
So Instagram is over here.
So I can't even read like what'shappening I see y'all is popping
over on IG But yes, and I see it.
Everybody is like yo to the bridgebring bridges back We playing with these
people by not giving them a bridge sothat we can really get into these songs.
Okay and so R.

(36:50):
Kelly back to R.
Kelly is Has R.
Kelly proven himself over the years tobe Um, he's a good crafter of songs.
You know what I'm saying?
It's undeniable like you can't evenundeny that we are not talking about

(37:11):
R Kelly the person and all that otherstuff that we absolutely disagree with.
We have been very clear aboutwhere we stand on that stuff
with him as a songwriter.
We get it.
We get that.
Is he the greatest Americansongwriter ahead of a head of
like Smokey Robinson ahead of?
I.
There are so many I cut carol kinga pair There are so many songwriters

so many and I think Yes.
Okay.
So here's the thing.
We understand that people get on xor twitter And they talk greasy they
hot takes or call hot takes justfor that Sometimes you just throw it
out there just to get people riledup and this and the that twitter
user did just that With his 3.

(37:56):
5 million views on this one tweetBut I think, so here's a question.
If R.
Kelly never got into trouble or never,or his, um, antics never got brought into
the light, do you think in a few years, J.
Ray, that we could have possibly seen R.
Kelly inducted into like a KennedyHonors as a, um, American songwriter,

(38:21):
like alongside the likes ofCarole King and, you know, Aretha
Franklin and, and those people?

Jay Ray (38:28):
I, I don't actually, I don't, I don't, and not because I think he,
those spaces, I think you have tohave more cachet in white world.

(38:48):
Not to say that whitepeople didn't love R.
Kelly too, because whitepeople definitely did.
You can't sell as many records as he did.
And I have white people loving you too.
But I do think Our Kelly was muchmore of a black famous star and he
would have gotten whatever accoladesin black culture that we would have
given him at the highest level.

(39:08):
Our Kelly would havedefinitely gotten those awards.
I don't think you can writethe lyrics that are make the
songs that are Kelly made.
I don't think you can make like anignition and get like a Kennedy honor.

This is not going to happen, right?
Yeah, I mean,

Jay Ray (39:28):
correct me if I'm wrong, y'all.
Let me know in the chat, like IG.
I mean, can.
Can you, can you

do your, yes, you all there in the IG chat, all, all of the chats.
Can you see R.
Kelly if he hadn't, if all of that stuffhad not come into the, into the light.
Could R.
Kelly have been inducted into like theKennedy honors as a American of the great,
one of the greatest American songwriters.
Now to your point, Jay Ray, I do thinkhe was knocking on becoming white

(39:58):
people famous when he did, when he madea duet with That duet with, um, Lady
Gaga, Lady Gaga, and I'm going to tellyou, I thoroughly enjoyed that song.

Jay Ray (40:12):
What was it?
Do what you want to my body.
Do what you want with my body.

Which in retrospect, you know.
It's a

Jay Ray (40:18):
whole mess.

It's a whole mess.
But I, listen.
That thing I used to thatI used to bump that that R.
Kelly and Lady Gaga something seriousI even made my own my own mashup.
Did you?
did.
I

Jay Ray (40:33):
want to hear your mashup of do what you want

Is do what you want the the acapella?
Well, I made I did filtered out myown acapella and um And partnered it
with the, the yin yang twins whisper.

Jay Ray (40:46):
That is an appropriate combination.

Oh, yes, absolutely.

Jay Ray (40:52):
So check this.
Look at the, look at the chat.
Let's talk about whatthe people are saying.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No.
So the people are like, nah, son.

Yeah, it looks like a big, a big fat.
No.
So I don't know.
Maybe it's just the people that watchthat watch and listen to this podcast.
So they're just like, not going to happen.
Or there are, but there's a segment.
We cannot ignore that segment of thecommunity that is not letting go.

(41:27):
Of R Kelly.
It's like that picture of blackJesus and JFK in every black home
in the sixties and seventies.
Some black people justaren't going to let it go.
They are not going to let, letgo of that picture of Martin Jay,
JFK and black Jesus in their home.
They're just not going to let it go.
Despite everything that has come to light.

Jay Ray (41:53):
I think we are far enough removed from.
R.
Kelly's imprisonment.
That folks.
I think these are all personal decisions.
You know what?
This is a personal decisions.

(42:14):
Jay Ray has long decidedto not be an R Kelly fan.
So I don't got I don't got nothing.
I'm always weird.
When an R Kelly song that was the RKelly and Jay Fiesta came on and on the
radio the other day and I'm like, oh,we're playing songs with R Kelly in it.
Now, is that what we're doing?

(42:35):
I don't like it.

And I think, you know, I'm one of those DJs where
I'm not, I'm just going to becontroversial to be controversial.
I am going to put on this R Kellysong and I dare one of y'all
to come say something to me.
That's not that that's not my bag.
I there's plenty of music around that.
I can play old and new.

(42:57):
in a set.
I don't have to make thata part of my repertoire.
Why?
Because it just has anick factor to it to me.

Jay Ray (43:07):
You said something earlier that I think is really important.
People have to decide what hillsthey want to like make their thing.
This R.
Kelly thing is not worth it to me.
First of all, The despicablethings that that man has done.
I don't even want that type ofenergy, even though I don't know.

(43:29):
No R Kelly.
I never met.
No R Kelly.
I don't want that kind of energy.
Nowhere near me, even though it'sjust coming through the speaker.
I don't want none of it.
I don't want none of it near me.
And so I do think.
That people get to make choicesabout we decided to have this
conversation because we were veryconfused about somebody saying that R.

(43:53):
Kelly was the greatestAmerican songwriter.
I mean ever ever that's wild.
That is a wild statement to make.
That's the reason why wewanted to have this discussion.
I if it was not this conversation, ifwe do, if we did not see that tweet, we
probably wouldn't be talking about R.
Kelly.

Yeah, so Nick, Nick fresh, just use the, uh, a quote on
the timeline saying called, um, thepeople that are keeping like R Kelly
alive, like, is there still their theme?
Theme music are like the hotel unclesand he's, and this is a segment of, of
black men that specifically feel like R.

(44:35):
Kelly is a victim of a system tryingto take him out systematically
because he is a black man and R.
Kelly was about to buy Jive Records
and
he wasn't, well, he, but he, he's, he was, he, he's a victim

(44:57):
of systematic racism, which is not.
Which is not far.
He's a victim of a verybad educational system.
He's a victim of a lot of child abuse,

Jay Ray (45:08):
child abuse and assault and all

of those things.
That man has been victimizedthroughout his whole life.
And what and what do victims do?
They tend to victimize other people.
That's not always in R.
Kelly's case.
This is what happened.
You're absolutely right.
Now, trying to Put him up onnail him to a cross and make him
and make him the savior of R& B.

(45:34):
You know, again, like Jay Ray said,if that's the hill you want to die
on, if that's the, if that's the,the, the road to Calvary for you,
that's what you want to carry onyour back by all means do that.
But I, but back to thetopic, back to the topic, I

Jay Ray (45:53):
want to share something.
This is the man Thaty'all want to raise up.
This is him.
Here's what he said.
Here's what he said.
You remind me of my Jeep.
I want to ride it.
Something like my sound.
I want to pump it girl.

(46:15):
You look just like my cars.
I want to wax it.
What?
And something like my bank accounts.
I want to spend it.
And he repeated it.
Okay.
This, this is not worth it.

(46:36):
It's not worth it.
I don't

know.
I don't know.
I don't think this is, but I don'tthink this is an episode where we're
definitively trying to say that RKelly can't be the greatest American
songwriter because clearly there's alot of people who still ride for him.
I'm saying that , but what we're sayingover here, as for me and my house, as

(47:01):
for me about house, it's not flying.
No, that's the bull.
That's cap.
And that kids, what

Jay Ray (47:07):
they say, that's cat.
That's the young people

say it's cap.
That's not, that's cap.
It's a skull.
Scully.
It's a hoodie.
It's all of the things.
It's not the truth overhere, . So I don't know.
Try again.
Try

Jay Ray (47:22):
again.

I mean, you got, Oh, no, I don't.
I almost brought up another name, but Idon't want to go off into that tangent
because he's definitely a son of R Kelly.
And I'm not going to, I'mnot going to bring that up.
Do we

Jay Ray (47:37):
want, who?
Who?

Maybe this should be like a, a paper.
Should this be a Patriot conversation?
I don't know what I'm now.

Jay Ray (47:53):
Oh, I mean, we could do that.
Y'all want to come andhang out with us again.
Well, apparently we got tohave another conversation.
I don't even know who's there.
Daniel's about to mention.
I do not know this

person was on the verge of being in trouble
also, but that quietly went away.
That's all I'm going to say.

Jay Ray (48:07):
Okay.

That accusation came and went and went quietly away.

Jay Ray (48:13):
Okay.
Okay.
These are, these are things more to come.
So here's what y'all need to do.
Here's what y'all need to do to stay up.
You see what just happened?
There's like a cliffhanger.
So Please y'all.
Thank y'all so much For I see the chat Itis going crazy on ig and I love it Y'all

(48:39):
thank y'all so much for rocking with us.
We appreciate it.
It is a new year um, if youSubscribe to Queue Points.
You will notice thatwe do have new artwork.

Yeah, you know what?
We got to post it on our IG.
We got to

Jay Ray (48:55):
post it on our IG because we haven't done that yet, but we have a
new artwork done by James Dillenbeck.
Thank you so much, James, for that.
And we're kicking off.
You don't see we have a new look.
We got a look.
Here, you know, we doing some things,you know, moving and shaking So thank
you all so much for just rockingwith us We really appreciate it.
If you can see our faces or hear ourvoices, please subscribe wherever you

(49:18):
are I want to do a quick shout outtree was over and I don't a tree what's
happening You say a good evening and wewant to make sure that we acknowledge
you um over on youtube, but Thank you.
Subscribe wherever you are.
Visit our website at Queue Points.
com.
You can check out our blog.
You can listen to all of ourold episodes of Queue Points and

(49:39):
you can shop our store at store.
Queue Points.
com.
We love y'all.
We appreciate y'all.

We sure do.
And Jay Ray, what do I sayat the end of every episode?
My, my eyes.
And let me stop this life.
You have a choice.
You can either pick up the needleor you can let the record play.
I'm DJ Sir Daniel.
My name is Jay Ray, y'all.
And this is Queue Points podcast, droppingthe needle on black music history.

(50:06):
We will see you all in the next go round.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}R. Kelly’s Legacy: Is He Really America’s Greatest Songwriter?

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

R. Kelly’s Legacy: Is He Really America’s Greatest Songwriter?

Crime Junkie