December 15, 2025 • 25 mins
From competitions to vocal bootcamps with Betty Wright, this episode is all about the phenomenon of Danity Kane and the cultural moment that birthed them. Jay Ray and DJ Sir Daniel reflect on the group’s reality TV origin story and the drama! Getting sent home and called back, endless rehearsals, and the very real work it took for them to become a chart-topping act. They consider whether manufactured groups can be “real,” how Danity Kane fits alongside Destiny’s Child, SWV and En Vogue, and why their reunions still pack out venues with fans who grew up with them.
Key takeaways
- Danity Kane emerged as arguably the most successful group formed on a nationally televised reality competition, with multiple hit albums and a devoted fanbase.
- Making the Band’s immersive format—showing rehearsals, house life, vocal coaching and conflict—helped audiences build a personal connection with the group members.
- The episode spotlights standout moments like Dawn Richard’s studio sessions, Betty Wright’s unforgettable vocal coaching, and Laurieann Gibson’s scene-stealing choreography mentorship.
- Jay Ray and DJ Sir Daniel argue that despite being “manufactured,” Danity Kane absolutely qualifies as a “real” group because of their grind, chemistry, and industry trials.
- The conversation situates Danity Kane in the lineage of girl groups and explores why reality TV might never produce a phenomenon quite like them again in today’s follower-obsessed industry.
Chapter Markers
00:00 Intro Theme
00:16 Welcome to the Show
00:37 Danity Kane: The Phenomenon
01:49 Making the Band: A Reality TV Revolution
03:42 Danity Kane's Journey and Impact
08:54 The Legacy of Danity Kane
11:48 Reflecting on Reality TV and Girl Groups
21:55 Individual Successes and Final Thoughts
24:16 Conclusion and Farewell
25:34 Outro Theme
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sir Daniel (00:16):
Welcome to another episode of Queue Points Podcast.
I am DJ Sir Daniel.
Jay Ray (00:20):
And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government as
Johnnie Ray Kornegay III and Sir Daniel.
We, since the start of QueuePoints have often talked about what
happened to the girl groups, right?
Well, there was one girl groupthat in the kind of later years,
(00:44):
like the, the two thousands,
Sir Daniel (00:46):
Yes.
Jay Ray (00:46):
was a phenomenon and we gonna talk about 'em.
Sir Daniel (00:50):
Absolutely.
Um, I'm going to say right here in thebeginning of this, um, this conversation.
Danity Kane is probably the mostsuccessful girl group put together
on a nationally televised, um.
Game show, I mean, which on a realityshow, uh, which was making the band,
(01:10):
um, Jay Ray just reminded me that thatshow is over 20 years old and I cannot
believe that much time has passedsince we were fir we were introduced
to Dawn Aubrey, um, Dominique,
Jay Ray (01:29):
Uh, yeah.
Dominique.
Sir Daniel (01:30):
Jamila, uh, all the girls and, and.
Jay Ray (01:33):
to go ahead to Queen
Sir Daniel (01:37):
You know, all the girls and of course the amazing Laurieann Gibson,
all people that made that show goodtelevision because not for nothing.
It was great television.
Jay Ray.
Jay Ray (01:49):
Yeah.
So when we think back to contextualize,uh, this era of making the band, so
there's kind of like pre Diddy, there's,there's Diddy, and then there's pre Diddy.
So.
Um, I think as, as we've mentioned on thisshow before, there was a version of making
the band that was headed by Lou Perlman.
(02:11):
Lou Perlman was responsible forall of the white pop boy bands, so
nsync, Backstreet Boys, et cetera.
O-Town.
So O-Town actually I think came out of thefirst making the band, I think they were
the, the, the band that was made and, um.
Uh, that's a whole lot of differentstories to talk about with Lou
(02:31):
Perlman, but I think Right.
But I think the, the, the interestingthing is Diddy clearly read the
tea leaves of his career, um, and.
And realized that one hip hop waschanging, r and b was changing,
and that in order for him to remainon top, he needed to go to tv.
(02:54):
And so then we could of courseget Making the Band One.
Well, the Making the Band With theband, which was a wild name for a
group of people that weren't a band.
Duh band.
Sir Daniel (03:08):
The band.
Jay Ray (03:09):
But then it was this one though.
Yeah.
Sir Daniel (03:12):
So I was gonna say, um, if we, if we had to rank the making of the
band franchises, I, this is my statement,I would say number one is Danny d Kane,
and then, then the band comes in numbertwo, and then I would, um, day 26 comes
in at number three for me as far as.
(03:33):
Enjoyability of a show, that's how Iwould rank those three, um, franchises.
Would you agree?
That's fair.
Jay Ray (03:41):
I absolutely agree.
Um, what's interesting about, uh, uh,this particular, the Danity Kane era of
making the band is this kind of becameappointment television for me and.
Sir Daniel (03:55):
For sure.
Jay Ray (03:56):
Yeah, like, and, and, and, and I had moved away from I think
reality TV as like my primary thing.
Um, but for whatever reason therewas something about, uh, these
young women coming together toform this group and not knowing
what was come gonna come out of it.
So I remember even when Danity Kanewas selected, feeling like I didn't
(04:19):
know where Diddy was gonna go.
You know what I mean?
Because there was such a diversemix of young women to choose from.
But I absolutely agree, and this wasappointment television at the time when
reality TV was like really, really growingand we were literally getting a group out
(04:40):
of this group that was uh, group, out ofthis show that was kind of formidable.
These girls could sing.
Sir Daniel (04:46):
They could actually sing.
And so here's the, the, the, thedistinction between the monster that
American Idol was 'cause remember by,at this time, American Idol has been
around for at least four years now.
Right.
But what was distinctive about betweenmaking the band and, and um, American
Idol is that they literally, they werefollowing the contestants outside of just.
(05:10):
The actual show and the competition,like everything became part of
the show where they were living,living in a house together.
They wanted, they made sure thatthey showed every single piece
of this growth, of this, um,experimental, this experimental show.
They wanted to show every pieceof the journey to everyone.
(05:31):
And so, um.
I also think what's so interestingis that now we now know that Diddy,
this show was a vehicle for him
Jay Ray (05:41):
Yes.
Sir Daniel (05:42):
and made him, still made him a household name.
But what was so diabolical j Ray, is thathe literally only showed up like maybe.
In two parts of the show, he might do likea, a video call, which is very Tyra Tyra
s Tyra mail, you know, and then he come inat the end, excuse me, and his entrances.
(06:03):
It would be so ominous.
Jay Ray (06:06):
do so Diddy's here guys.
You know what I'm saying?
Sir Daniel (06:11):
Yes.
Jay Ray (06:13):
And he'd walk in.
So girls, ladies, what's up?
You looking a little chunky,
Sir Daniel (06:17):
to line up right now and be ready to perform.
So, so characteristic of Diddy.
Absolutely.
Jay Ray (06:27):
It really was.
And I think.
As so we, we, we get the opportunity,uh, to see this group get selected.
And so the season finale ofkind of Danity Kane season is
when they pick the group, right?
And, um, first out the gate.
(06:47):
Who became a like a star?
The show was Aubrey.
Right.
So Aubrey is the first name outthe hat, which was not surprising
to me because she became kind ofa central figure of, of the show.
She became a breakout star of the showand quite frankly, I actually thought
that she was gonna do a whole bunchof other stuff, like I think she was
(07:08):
really poised to, but yeah, so hepulls her name out and then we get the
other girls that he, he selects, but.
I remember specifically AubreyO'Day sticking out among
these, these young ladies.
Like she was almost a s shoe in.
Sir Daniel (07:23):
Totally.
And so before we go any further furtherwith that, let's not, we would be
remiss if we did not remember thatthere were two seasons out of this
Literally people were, everybody was senthome at the end of the first season and
everybody was just completely dumbfounded.
(07:44):
Like, what's happening?
What?
We just spent however many monthsin this house learning choreography,
learning to sing together, um,meeting each other and um, and
learning each other's personalities.
But now we're just going home,
Jay Ray (08:04):
Yeah.
Sir Daniel (08:05):
which is diabolical in itself.
But to your point, I, and I saidthis off air, I really do believe
that Arbery from the beginning showedthat she had a business acumen before
when she came into the competitionthat none of the other girls had.
(08:28):
And then on top of that, shewas kind of, you know, she was a
Jay Ray (08:30):
was like, she was the sex symbol, you know?
Um, she fit the brand of that era of
Sir Daniel (08:37):
she did, but she wasn't giving, and to her credit, she
wasn't giving white girl trying tobe black or trying to affect, you
know, have that kind of effect.
Jay Ray (08:45):
Yeah.
So I think what's interesting,and I'm glad you mentioned, uh,
kind of the Danity Kane piece kindof broken out into two seasons.
One of the things I think isthe most interesting 'cause
here's what we're seeing now.
So as of the time of us recording this.
There is another Danity Kane,reunion, Danity Kane reunion.
There have been three, likethree, um, this is the third.
(09:09):
And seeing the crowd's reactionto them had us off air as
we were preparing for this.
Really thinking through like, what is it?
And I truly do believe Sir Daniel that.
Us watching these women gothrough this process developed
(09:33):
like a relationship with them.
So no matter what version of DanityKane people get to see they are in, the
audience is in, because they're just infor their girls being on stage together.
And we got to watch them recordall of these songs on the show too.
Sir Daniel (09:55):
We got the, to watch them record these songs, these
classics, we gotta see them.
Um, do learn dance routines.
I don't think so.
I don't think we all,um, realized that, that
Jay Ray (10:09):
Right.
Sir Daniel (10:11):
that song actually, who did that belong to?
Was that, um, was that Sherry?
Was that Sherry?
It was another bad boy artist that that
Jay Ray (10:21):
It might have been, it might have been Sherry Dennis.
Sir Daniel (10:24):
And, but we knew it immediately because the beat, we
heard that beat ad nauseum when itcame time for, uh, for dance copy.
Oh, attention My Body.
We knew those songs down pat.
And so when it came time for themto be a, a fully realized group with
(10:45):
an actual album to their credit.
Absolutely, it makes total sense.
So when I see the reunion footage, thesegirls never not have a sold out show.
Jay Ray (10:56):
Right.
Sir Daniel (10:57):
The shows are packed.
Um, there are people buying theirrecords and going to see them.
It just makes sense.
We're talking about a group thathas sold 1.5 million records
worldwide or no, in the us.
Jay Ray (11:11):
In the us.
Mm-hmm.
Sir Daniel (11:13):
Three albums to their name self-titled, welcome
to the Dollhouse and DK three,
Jay Ray (11:18):
Mm-hmm.
Sir Daniel (11:20):
excuse me.
It just mar rutabaga.
It just makes total sense thatwe, that the audience that has
literally grown up with them, justlike we said at the beginning,
this, that show is 20 years old.
20 years old.
So think about it, youare what, maybe 13, 15?
(11:42):
Watching the show, youare almost about to be 40.
You grew up with those girls?
Jay Ray (11:48):
You know, this brings up a question.
Um, now, sir, I'm curious toknow where you land on this.
Assembling a group isnot a new phenomenon.
That happens all the time in music.
So many of the groups that we love, bandsthat we love, have been assembled bands.
Um, but because this group wasassembled on tv, how do you or do
(12:16):
you like, um, are they a real group?
Is Danity Kane a real group?
You know what I mean?
Like what does that look like?
I don't know.
I just thought about that.
Sir Daniel (12:27):
I, well, I think they are a real group because they've done,
aside from the, the music part ofit, cr going in and recording albums.
Um, practicing for their stageperformances, the photography, the
touring, and then getting, getting, um,taken advantage of by the music industry,
(12:56):
um, being broke at times.
Um, disbanding coming back together.
Whether it was three or whether itwas five, all of those things are
hallmarks of being a real group.
So I say yes, they'reabsolutely a real group.
Jay Ray (13:17):
You're absolutely right.
And um, it's so funny, thismakes me, uh, this makes me think
of when you were talking aboutlike their, their three albums.
Lemme tell you something.
Damaged by Danity Kane.
I don't care how, when that songcomes on, that song is a bop all day.
Sir Daniel (13:37):
You
do.
Jay Ray (13:42):
Jams galore.
But, um, and I'm curious to know,uh, uh, uh, the thing either Danity
Kane related or otherwise related tomaking the band that you remember most.
But I will tell you when I was doingresearch for this, 'cause I hadn't
listened to the first Danity Kanerecord in, you know, a long time.
It's a 20-year-old recordnow, but I remembered when I
(14:06):
read the title Sleep on it.
I could not get out of my head watchingthat show and watching Dawn Richard in
that studio being Badger to get thisright and it was these dudes like I
could, it was everything about that.
(14:27):
These dudes.
That was just flummoxing her, but not her.
It was what it was being requiredof her from the producer.
Right.
And it is just a moment thatI'm like, man, sleep on it.
And these dudes, I knowDawn was going through.
Sir Daniel (14:45):
So for me, one of the, aside from the.
The choreography moments.
One moment that always sticks outto me is when they, they were truly
blessed to have this when they wouldhave those vocal coach sessions with
Betty Wright, who is a frigging icon.
(15:06):
Okay.
Is an icon.
They, they, they did the thing when theygot Betty Wright to be their vocal coach.
But there was one episode in particularwhere, um, Aubrey was getting frustrated.
Was it Aubrey or was it Shannon?
(15:26):
It was one of the, two of themwas getting, not frustrated, but
Betty wasn't feeling it from them.
She
Jay Ray (15:34):
I think I can see it.
Right, right.
Because it was
Sir Daniel (15:36):
she was feeling it from that.
From their undergird.
From their undergird.
She wasn't feeling it.
And they were singing thisone line over and over.
I love you
Jay Ray (15:45):
you.
I would never, and but, and then for ever.
Sir Daniel (15:52):
And they kept, they had to sing it in harmony.
They had to sing it solo.
They had to sing it in rounds.
And let me tell you something, I wouldbe sitting watching that show in tears.
In tears because now there's an, Ihave an earworm of I Love You Forever,
Jay Ray (16:11):
to.
Sir Daniel (16:11):
and Betty Wright's sitting there with a drumstick and, and one snare.
Like, pow, pow, pow.
Come on, let me, I need to feel it.
I need to feel it.
Those are the things that endeared us to
Jay Ray (16:23):
Yes.
Oh my God.
Um, when we take a look at
Danity Kane as a group and theirimpact, because I think that's the
other thing that we, we forget, is thatthey actually were, they had hit songs.
These records were hits andthey were, their audiences were
(16:45):
huge fans of these records.
I'm wondering what you think.
The lasting legacy of this group is
Sir Daniel (16:55):
Hmm,
Hmm.
I think their legacy is,is that yes, you can be,
um, you can be puttogether, you can be, um,
(17:17):
yeah, you can be puttogether, manufactured right.
However, there comes a timethat you become, you assume
the identity of said group.
That identity becomes a part of you, andI think that they show that regardless
(17:38):
of how you come to how you're broughttogether, once you gel as a group.
And you had, and that chemistryis undeniable regardless of
how you all got together.
You can still be, uh, a groupthat has something to contribute
to the industry, to the arts.
(18:01):
It doesn't matter how you come together,but once you use those experiences
and you actually build and growtogether, like, I think that's the,
so the legacy then is there has to be.
Uniformity.
There has to be practice, therehas to be rehearsal in person.
I know we're in a, a virtual kind ofworld these days, a digital world where
(18:23):
people wanna, oh yeah, I'm gonna giveyou, I'm gonna put my verse on the phone
and drop it to you, airdrop it to you.
None of that stuff.
They show that if, even if you area manufactured group, if you put
in the hard work, uh, and the, andthe, um, and use the processes of.
Olden days, you can be considered,you can, you can, um, solidify
(18:46):
yourselves as a legendary group.
You can have a career that is worththat people will be talking about,
like Queue Points 20 years later.
Jay Ray (18:59):
That's so dope because when you think about it, um, and girl groups
are so important to music history,particularly black music, right?
Like girl groups mean something,those harmonies, that connection,
those dance moves, et cetera.
Um, as we talk about groups like.
(19:21):
Uh, Destiny's Child andSWV and in Vogue, right?
You still put Danity Kane there.
And Danity Kane is oneof the, of that era.
They are one of the last girlgroups to be like a big hit.
Um, they might be the last, if we, ifwe really look back on the history.
(19:46):
I haven't researched it.
I know y'all gonna letus know in the comments.
Sir Daniel (19:50):
look, we know y'all liked y'all, fifth Harmony and
all that other stuff, but theyjust weren't around long enough.
I'm sorry.
Jay Ray (19:56):
It's a different kind of group and I guess people could
say the Pussycat Dolls, but werethose other girls even singing?
Except that one girl, she let us know.
Sir Daniel (20:04):
She let she,
every time I think aboutit, it cracks me up.
Melanie Let Nicole Burger,I think, is that her name?
Nicole,
Jay Ray (20:16):
Mm-hmm.
Sir Daniel (20:16):
know that my mic is on.
And you are gonna, I know I'm aboutto get a pink slip after this, but
y'all are gonna know that my mic
Jay Ray (20:24):
Baby.
What did she do?
Sir Daniel (20:25):
be on.
She, she did a Oh whoa.
In front of everybody,and Nicole was so heated.
Jay Ray (20:35):
my God.
The look on her face was amazing.
But, um,
Sir Daniel (20:39):
have.
Jay Ray (20:42):
but yes, Danity Kane gets said along with all these other names, right?
And, and holds their own.
And, um, it does make me alittle bit nostalgic for these
kind of competition shows.
'cause now of course we still havelike the voice and like the X factor.
(21:02):
What's the one?
Uh, America's Got Talent, butthis is different to your point.
This was like, no, we areputting together a group.
And um, it does make me alittle bit nostalgic even
though the music industry isn't.
It wouldn't respond to that.
It's like,
Sir Daniel (21:20):
at all.
Jay Ray (21:21):
how many followers do does that girl have?
You know what I mean?
Sir Daniel (21:26):
Which girl?
Jay Ray (21:27):
No, I'm just saying no.
That would be something the music
Sir Daniel (21:29):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
They, they'd wanna know.
Jay Ray (21:31):
Yeah.
Sir Daniel (21:32):
So lemme see.
I was looking at your
Jay Ray (21:35):
Instagram.
Sir Daniel (21:37):
Um, first of all, it took me a long time to find it,
so we've been working on that.
How many followers do you have?
Jay Ray (21:45):
I know you can sing and everything.
Mm. A thousand, uh, sorry, baby.
Um, but I, I do adore Danity Kane.
Um, I have a soft spot for Dawn Richard,um, and I feel like she has made the most.
One, she's made the most consistent music.
(22:06):
She's got the most consistent music careerout of all the girls, um, and has, uh,
uh, uh, just been killing it for like areally long time on the independent side.
So she's not only a performer,but she's also a business person.
And she loves, she definitelywants people to know that, hey,
I'm running this thing myself.
And, um, but listen, we wouldn'thave a dawn and we wouldn't have
(22:29):
that creation without this group.
So.
Sir Daniel (22:32):
Right, the same way I gave, um, Aubrey, her
props for her business acumen.
I, we knew off the bat that Dawn.
Was a complete artist whenshe came on the scene.
I mean, quick to write,
quick to pick up choreography, everything.
So yeah, Dawn Richard has true, truly,truly led the way in creating her own.
(22:56):
Um, path in this as an artist.
And, you know, shout out to Shannonbecause Aubrey and Shannon had a
Jay Ray (23:03):
Dumb blind was
Sir Daniel (23:04):
dumb blondes, which is very successful.
And, um, D Woods ofcourse, um, is an actress.
We all, we've all seen D Woodsand TVs or or stage player
near you, so shout out to them.
Jay Ray (23:19):
Yeah, we wanted to spend some time, y'all just kind of, um, one big
in these women up, but also celebratingthe fact that, uh, this show happened.
Um, and it is a, it islightning in a bottle.
I don't know that we couldever do this thing again.
Um, with Sister Lorianne.
Um,
Sir Daniel (23:39):
Listen, the sixth member of Danity Kane is Laurieann Gibson.
Laurieann Gibson, not for nothing.
Probably the breakoutstar of making the band.
Jay Ray (23:52):
Honestly.
Yeah, I was, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's real.
I know I said Aubrey, but Loriann wasdefinitely like a character unto her.
You were waiting for her to,what is she going to say?
What is it like this like, like this?
Sir Daniel (24:09):
It's this, it's not, it's too much.
Jay Ray (24:14):
Love Lorianne y'all.
Thank you so much fortuning into Queue Points.
As always, let us know your favoritemaking the band moment, uh, particularly
from the Dandy Kae seasons, but ifit's from another season, let us know.
I know y'all going to talk aboutthem going up to get that cheesecake,
uh, in the, the, the band season.
(24:35):
But, um.
Let the fuck.
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(24:57):
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Sir Daniel (25:11):
It's like I say, in this life, you have a choice.
You can either pick up the needleor you could let the record play.
I'm DJ Sir Daniel.
Jay Ray (25:19):
My name is Jay Ray.
Sir Daniel (25:21):
And this is Q Point's podcast, dropping the
needle on black music history.
We will see you on the next goround on the one and the two, not
Ah, okay.
Jay Ray (25:32):
Peace
Welcome to another episode of Queue Points Podcast.
I am DJ Sir Daniel.
Jay Ray (00:20):
And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government as
Johnnie Ray Kornegay III and Sir Daniel.
We, since the start of QueuePoints have often talked about what
happened to the girl groups, right?
Well, there was one girl groupthat in the kind of later years,
(00:44):
like the, the two thousands,
Sir Daniel (00:46):
Yes.
Jay Ray (00:46):
was a phenomenon and we gonna talk about 'em.
Sir Daniel (00:50):
Absolutely.
Um, I'm going to say right here in thebeginning of this, um, this conversation.
Danity Kane is probably the mostsuccessful girl group put together
on a nationally televised, um.
Game show, I mean, which on a realityshow, uh, which was making the band,
(01:10):
um, Jay Ray just reminded me that thatshow is over 20 years old and I cannot
believe that much time has passedsince we were fir we were introduced
to Dawn Aubrey, um, Dominique,
Jay Ray (01:29):
Uh, yeah.
Dominique.
Sir Daniel (01:30):
Jamila, uh, all the girls and, and.
Jay Ray (01:33):
to go ahead to Queen
Sir Daniel (01:37):
You know, all the girls and of course the amazing Laurieann Gibson,
all people that made that show goodtelevision because not for nothing.
It was great television.
Jay Ray.
Jay Ray (01:49):
Yeah.
So when we think back to contextualize,uh, this era of making the band, so
there's kind of like pre Diddy, there's,there's Diddy, and then there's pre Diddy.
So.
Um, I think as, as we've mentioned on thisshow before, there was a version of making
the band that was headed by Lou Perlman.
(02:11):
Lou Perlman was responsible forall of the white pop boy bands, so
nsync, Backstreet Boys, et cetera.
O-Town.
So O-Town actually I think came out of thefirst making the band, I think they were
the, the, the band that was made and, um.
Uh, that's a whole lot of differentstories to talk about with Lou
(02:31):
Perlman, but I think Right.
But I think the, the, the interestingthing is Diddy clearly read the
tea leaves of his career, um, and.
And realized that one hip hop waschanging, r and b was changing,
and that in order for him to remainon top, he needed to go to tv.
(02:54):
And so then we could of courseget Making the Band One.
Well, the Making the Band With theband, which was a wild name for a
group of people that weren't a band.
Duh band.
Sir Daniel (03:08):
The band.
Jay Ray (03:09):
But then it was this one though.
Yeah.
Sir Daniel (03:12):
So I was gonna say, um, if we, if we had to rank the making of the
band franchises, I, this is my statement,I would say number one is Danny d Kane,
and then, then the band comes in numbertwo, and then I would, um, day 26 comes
in at number three for me as far as.
(03:33):
Enjoyability of a show, that's how Iwould rank those three, um, franchises.
Would you agree?
That's fair.
Jay Ray (03:41):
I absolutely agree.
Um, what's interesting about, uh, uh,this particular, the Danity Kane era of
making the band is this kind of becameappointment television for me and.
Sir Daniel (03:55):
For sure.
Jay Ray (03:56):
Yeah, like, and, and, and, and I had moved away from I think
reality TV as like my primary thing.
Um, but for whatever reason therewas something about, uh, these
young women coming together toform this group and not knowing
what was come gonna come out of it.
So I remember even when Danity Kanewas selected, feeling like I didn't
(04:19):
know where Diddy was gonna go.
You know what I mean?
Because there was such a diversemix of young women to choose from.
But I absolutely agree, and this wasappointment television at the time when
reality TV was like really, really growingand we were literally getting a group out
(04:40):
of this group that was uh, group, out ofthis show that was kind of formidable.
These girls could sing.
Sir Daniel (04:46):
They could actually sing.
And so here's the, the, the, thedistinction between the monster that
American Idol was 'cause remember by,at this time, American Idol has been
around for at least four years now.
Right.
But what was distinctive about betweenmaking the band and, and um, American
Idol is that they literally, they werefollowing the contestants outside of just.
(05:10):
The actual show and the competition,like everything became part of
the show where they were living,living in a house together.
They wanted, they made sure thatthey showed every single piece
of this growth, of this, um,experimental, this experimental show.
They wanted to show every pieceof the journey to everyone.
(05:31):
And so, um.
I also think what's so interestingis that now we now know that Diddy,
this show was a vehicle for him
Jay Ray (05:41):
Yes.
Sir Daniel (05:42):
and made him, still made him a household name.
But what was so diabolical j Ray, is thathe literally only showed up like maybe.
In two parts of the show, he might do likea, a video call, which is very Tyra Tyra
s Tyra mail, you know, and then he come inat the end, excuse me, and his entrances.
(06:03):
It would be so ominous.
Jay Ray (06:06):
do so Diddy's here guys.
You know what I'm saying?
Sir Daniel (06:11):
Yes.
Jay Ray (06:13):
And he'd walk in.
So girls, ladies, what's up?
You looking a little chunky,
Sir Daniel (06:17):
to line up right now and be ready to perform.
So, so characteristic of Diddy.
Absolutely.
Jay Ray (06:27):
It really was.
And I think.
As so we, we, we get the opportunity,uh, to see this group get selected.
And so the season finale ofkind of Danity Kane season is
when they pick the group, right?
And, um, first out the gate.
(06:47):
Who became a like a star?
The show was Aubrey.
Right.
So Aubrey is the first name outthe hat, which was not surprising
to me because she became kind ofa central figure of, of the show.
She became a breakout star of the showand quite frankly, I actually thought
that she was gonna do a whole bunchof other stuff, like I think she was
(07:08):
really poised to, but yeah, so hepulls her name out and then we get the
other girls that he, he selects, but.
I remember specifically AubreyO'Day sticking out among
these, these young ladies.
Like she was almost a s shoe in.
Sir Daniel (07:23):
Totally.
And so before we go any further furtherwith that, let's not, we would be
remiss if we did not remember thatthere were two seasons out of this
Literally people were, everybody was senthome at the end of the first season and
everybody was just completely dumbfounded.
(07:44):
Like, what's happening?
What?
We just spent however many monthsin this house learning choreography,
learning to sing together, um,meeting each other and um, and
learning each other's personalities.
But now we're just going home,
Jay Ray (08:04):
Yeah.
Sir Daniel (08:05):
which is diabolical in itself.
But to your point, I, and I saidthis off air, I really do believe
that Arbery from the beginning showedthat she had a business acumen before
when she came into the competitionthat none of the other girls had.
(08:28):
And then on top of that, shewas kind of, you know, she was a
Jay Ray (08:30):
was like, she was the sex symbol, you know?
Um, she fit the brand of that era of
Sir Daniel (08:37):
she did, but she wasn't giving, and to her credit, she
wasn't giving white girl trying tobe black or trying to affect, you
know, have that kind of effect.
Jay Ray (08:45):
Yeah.
So I think what's interesting,and I'm glad you mentioned, uh,
kind of the Danity Kane piece kindof broken out into two seasons.
One of the things I think isthe most interesting 'cause
here's what we're seeing now.
So as of the time of us recording this.
There is another Danity Kane,reunion, Danity Kane reunion.
There have been three, likethree, um, this is the third.
(09:09):
And seeing the crowd's reactionto them had us off air as
we were preparing for this.
Really thinking through like, what is it?
And I truly do believe Sir Daniel that.
Us watching these women gothrough this process developed
(09:33):
like a relationship with them.
So no matter what version of DanityKane people get to see they are in, the
audience is in, because they're just infor their girls being on stage together.
And we got to watch them recordall of these songs on the show too.
Sir Daniel (09:55):
We got the, to watch them record these songs, these
classics, we gotta see them.
Um, do learn dance routines.
I don't think so.
I don't think we all,um, realized that, that
Jay Ray (10:09):
Right.
Sir Daniel (10:11):
that song actually, who did that belong to?
Was that, um, was that Sherry?
Was that Sherry?
It was another bad boy artist that that
Jay Ray (10:21):
It might have been, it might have been Sherry Dennis.
Sir Daniel (10:24):
And, but we knew it immediately because the beat, we
heard that beat ad nauseum when itcame time for, uh, for dance copy.
Oh, attention My Body.
We knew those songs down pat.
And so when it came time for themto be a, a fully realized group with
(10:45):
an actual album to their credit.
Absolutely, it makes total sense.
So when I see the reunion footage, thesegirls never not have a sold out show.
Jay Ray (10:56):
Right.
Sir Daniel (10:57):
The shows are packed.
Um, there are people buying theirrecords and going to see them.
It just makes sense.
We're talking about a group thathas sold 1.5 million records
worldwide or no, in the us.
Jay Ray (11:11):
In the us.
Mm-hmm.
Sir Daniel (11:13):
Three albums to their name self-titled, welcome
to the Dollhouse and DK three,
Jay Ray (11:18):
Mm-hmm.
Sir Daniel (11:20):
excuse me.
It just mar rutabaga.
It just makes total sense thatwe, that the audience that has
literally grown up with them, justlike we said at the beginning,
this, that show is 20 years old.
20 years old.
So think about it, youare what, maybe 13, 15?
(11:42):
Watching the show, youare almost about to be 40.
You grew up with those girls?
Jay Ray (11:48):
You know, this brings up a question.
Um, now, sir, I'm curious toknow where you land on this.
Assembling a group isnot a new phenomenon.
That happens all the time in music.
So many of the groups that we love, bandsthat we love, have been assembled bands.
Um, but because this group wasassembled on tv, how do you or do
(12:16):
you like, um, are they a real group?
Is Danity Kane a real group?
You know what I mean?
Like what does that look like?
I don't know.
I just thought about that.
Sir Daniel (12:27):
I, well, I think they are a real group because they've done,
aside from the, the music part ofit, cr going in and recording albums.
Um, practicing for their stageperformances, the photography, the
touring, and then getting, getting, um,taken advantage of by the music industry,
(12:56):
um, being broke at times.
Um, disbanding coming back together.
Whether it was three or whether itwas five, all of those things are
hallmarks of being a real group.
So I say yes, they'reabsolutely a real group.
Jay Ray (13:17):
You're absolutely right.
And um, it's so funny, thismakes me, uh, this makes me think
of when you were talking aboutlike their, their three albums.
Lemme tell you something.
Damaged by Danity Kane.
I don't care how, when that songcomes on, that song is a bop all day.
Sir Daniel (13:37):
You
do.
Jay Ray (13:42):
Jams galore.
But, um, and I'm curious to know,uh, uh, uh, the thing either Danity
Kane related or otherwise related tomaking the band that you remember most.
But I will tell you when I was doingresearch for this, 'cause I hadn't
listened to the first Danity Kanerecord in, you know, a long time.
It's a 20-year-old recordnow, but I remembered when I
(14:06):
read the title Sleep on it.
I could not get out of my head watchingthat show and watching Dawn Richard in
that studio being Badger to get thisright and it was these dudes like I
could, it was everything about that.
(14:27):
These dudes.
That was just flummoxing her, but not her.
It was what it was being requiredof her from the producer.
Right.
And it is just a moment thatI'm like, man, sleep on it.
And these dudes, I knowDawn was going through.
Sir Daniel (14:45):
So for me, one of the, aside from the.
The choreography moments.
One moment that always sticks outto me is when they, they were truly
blessed to have this when they wouldhave those vocal coach sessions with
Betty Wright, who is a frigging icon.
(15:06):
Okay.
Is an icon.
They, they, they did the thing when theygot Betty Wright to be their vocal coach.
But there was one episode in particularwhere, um, Aubrey was getting frustrated.
Was it Aubrey or was it Shannon?
(15:26):
It was one of the, two of themwas getting, not frustrated, but
Betty wasn't feeling it from them.
She
Jay Ray (15:34):
I think I can see it.
Right, right.
Because it was
Sir Daniel (15:36):
she was feeling it from that.
From their undergird.
From their undergird.
She wasn't feeling it.
And they were singing thisone line over and over.
I love you
Jay Ray (15:45):
you.
I would never, and but, and then for ever.
Sir Daniel (15:52):
And they kept, they had to sing it in harmony.
They had to sing it solo.
They had to sing it in rounds.
And let me tell you something, I wouldbe sitting watching that show in tears.
In tears because now there's an, Ihave an earworm of I Love You Forever,
Jay Ray (16:11):
to.
Sir Daniel (16:11):
and Betty Wright's sitting there with a drumstick and, and one snare.
Like, pow, pow, pow.
Come on, let me, I need to feel it.
I need to feel it.
Those are the things that endeared us to
Jay Ray (16:23):
Yes.
Oh my God.
Um, when we take a look at
Danity Kane as a group and theirimpact, because I think that's the
other thing that we, we forget, is thatthey actually were, they had hit songs.
These records were hits andthey were, their audiences were
(16:45):
huge fans of these records.
I'm wondering what you think.
The lasting legacy of this group is
Sir Daniel (16:55):
Hmm,
Hmm.
I think their legacy is,is that yes, you can be,
um, you can be puttogether, you can be, um,
(17:17):
yeah, you can be puttogether, manufactured right.
However, there comes a timethat you become, you assume
the identity of said group.
That identity becomes a part of you, andI think that they show that regardless
(17:38):
of how you come to how you're broughttogether, once you gel as a group.
And you had, and that chemistryis undeniable regardless of
how you all got together.
You can still be, uh, a groupthat has something to contribute
to the industry, to the arts.
(18:01):
It doesn't matter how you come together,but once you use those experiences
and you actually build and growtogether, like, I think that's the,
so the legacy then is there has to be.
Uniformity.
There has to be practice, therehas to be rehearsal in person.
I know we're in a, a virtual kind ofworld these days, a digital world where
(18:23):
people wanna, oh yeah, I'm gonna giveyou, I'm gonna put my verse on the phone
and drop it to you, airdrop it to you.
None of that stuff.
They show that if, even if you area manufactured group, if you put
in the hard work, uh, and the, andthe, um, and use the processes of.
Olden days, you can be considered,you can, you can, um, solidify
(18:46):
yourselves as a legendary group.
You can have a career that is worththat people will be talking about,
like Queue Points 20 years later.
Jay Ray (18:59):
That's so dope because when you think about it, um, and girl groups
are so important to music history,particularly black music, right?
Like girl groups mean something,those harmonies, that connection,
those dance moves, et cetera.
Um, as we talk about groups like.
(19:21):
Uh, Destiny's Child andSWV and in Vogue, right?
You still put Danity Kane there.
And Danity Kane is oneof the, of that era.
They are one of the last girlgroups to be like a big hit.
Um, they might be the last, if we, ifwe really look back on the history.
(19:46):
I haven't researched it.
I know y'all gonna letus know in the comments.
Sir Daniel (19:50):
look, we know y'all liked y'all, fifth Harmony and
all that other stuff, but theyjust weren't around long enough.
I'm sorry.
Jay Ray (19:56):
It's a different kind of group and I guess people could
say the Pussycat Dolls, but werethose other girls even singing?
Except that one girl, she let us know.
Sir Daniel (20:04):
She let she,
every time I think aboutit, it cracks me up.
Melanie Let Nicole Burger,I think, is that her name?
Nicole,
Jay Ray (20:16):
Mm-hmm.
Sir Daniel (20:16):
know that my mic is on.
And you are gonna, I know I'm aboutto get a pink slip after this, but
y'all are gonna know that my mic
Jay Ray (20:24):
Baby.
What did she do?
Sir Daniel (20:25):
be on.
She, she did a Oh whoa.
In front of everybody,and Nicole was so heated.
Jay Ray (20:35):
my God.
The look on her face was amazing.
But, um,
Sir Daniel (20:39):
have.
Jay Ray (20:42):
but yes, Danity Kane gets said along with all these other names, right?
And, and holds their own.
And, um, it does make me alittle bit nostalgic for these
kind of competition shows.
'cause now of course we still havelike the voice and like the X factor.
(21:02):
What's the one?
Uh, America's Got Talent, butthis is different to your point.
This was like, no, we areputting together a group.
And um, it does make me alittle bit nostalgic even
though the music industry isn't.
It wouldn't respond to that.
It's like,
Sir Daniel (21:20):
at all.
Jay Ray (21:21):
how many followers do does that girl have?
You know what I mean?
Sir Daniel (21:26):
Which girl?
Jay Ray (21:27):
No, I'm just saying no.
That would be something the music
Sir Daniel (21:29):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
They, they'd wanna know.
Jay Ray (21:31):
Yeah.
Sir Daniel (21:32):
So lemme see.
I was looking at your
Jay Ray (21:35):
Instagram.
Sir Daniel (21:37):
Um, first of all, it took me a long time to find it,
so we've been working on that.
How many followers do you have?
Jay Ray (21:45):
I know you can sing and everything.
Mm. A thousand, uh, sorry, baby.
Um, but I, I do adore Danity Kane.
Um, I have a soft spot for Dawn Richard,um, and I feel like she has made the most.
One, she's made the most consistent music.
(22:06):
She's got the most consistent music careerout of all the girls, um, and has, uh,
uh, uh, just been killing it for like areally long time on the independent side.
So she's not only a performer,but she's also a business person.
And she loves, she definitelywants people to know that, hey,
I'm running this thing myself.
And, um, but listen, we wouldn'thave a dawn and we wouldn't have
(22:29):
that creation without this group.
So.
Sir Daniel (22:32):
Right, the same way I gave, um, Aubrey, her
props for her business acumen.
I, we knew off the bat that Dawn.
Was a complete artist whenshe came on the scene.
I mean, quick to write,
quick to pick up choreography, everything.
So yeah, Dawn Richard has true, truly,truly led the way in creating her own.
(22:56):
Um, path in this as an artist.
And, you know, shout out to Shannonbecause Aubrey and Shannon had a
Jay Ray (23:03):
Dumb blind was
Sir Daniel (23:04):
dumb blondes, which is very successful.
And, um, D Woods ofcourse, um, is an actress.
We all, we've all seen D Woodsand TVs or or stage player
near you, so shout out to them.
Jay Ray (23:19):
Yeah, we wanted to spend some time, y'all just kind of, um, one big
in these women up, but also celebratingthe fact that, uh, this show happened.
Um, and it is a, it islightning in a bottle.
I don't know that we couldever do this thing again.
Um, with Sister Lorianne.
Um,
Sir Daniel (23:39):
Listen, the sixth member of Danity Kane is Laurieann Gibson.
Laurieann Gibson, not for nothing.
Probably the breakoutstar of making the band.
Jay Ray (23:52):
Honestly.
Yeah, I was, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's real.
I know I said Aubrey, but Loriann wasdefinitely like a character unto her.
You were waiting for her to,what is she going to say?
What is it like this like, like this?
Sir Daniel (24:09):
It's this, it's not, it's too much.
Jay Ray (24:14):
Love Lorianne y'all.
Thank you so much fortuning into Queue Points.
As always, let us know your favoritemaking the band moment, uh, particularly
from the Dandy Kae seasons, but ifit's from another season, let us know.
I know y'all going to talk aboutthem going up to get that cheesecake,
uh, in the, the, the band season.
(24:35):
But, um.
Let the fuck.
It's a different time, but subscribe.
If you can see our faces andhear our voices subscribe.
Tell your friends, family, colleagues,if you love Queue Points, chances are
they will love Queue Points as well.
Visit our website@Queue Points.com.
We got a whole bunch of freshnessover there, including our
(24:57):
entire archive of episodes.
And you can check us out on Substack.
We got a ton of stuff over there.
Shop our store.
Help your brothers out.
You know what I'm saying?
Keeping these Queue Points,lights on@storeQueue Points.com.
We appreciate y'all, we love y'all.
Sir Daniel (25:11):
It's like I say, in this life, you have a choice.
You can either pick up the needleor you could let the record play.
I'm DJ Sir Daniel.
Jay Ray (25:19):
My name is Jay Ray.
Sir Daniel (25:21):
And this is Q Point's podcast, dropping the
needle on black music history.
We will see you on the next goround on the one and the two, not
Ah, okay.
Jay Ray (25:32):
Peace
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