June 11, 2025 • 23 mins
In this Pride Month episode of Queue Points, DJ Sir Daniel and Jay Ray dive into Peggy Scott Adams’ 1997 blues classic “Bill.” What happens when a Blues track sparks conversations about queerness, deception, and Black family dynamics in the late ‘90s? Mayhem, y’all. Pure mayhem.
Join us as we explore the cultural shockwaves from “Bill”—from how the song tackled (and sometimes mishandled) LGBTQIA+ visibility, to the tabloid-fueled era that shaped its reception within the Black community. We break down the music video’s casting choices, the history of confronting infidelity in Black music, and why “Bill” still matters today.
We reflect honestly on outdated language and tropes used in the era, and celebrate the resilience and storytelling power of Black artists—then and now.
Happy Pride!
Chapter Markers
00:00 Intro Theme
00:16 Introduction and Welcome
01:17 Introducing Peggy Scott Adams' 'Bill'
02:55 Discussion: The Impact and Controversy of 'Bill'
04:04 Exploring the Social Context of the 90s
08:13 Analyzing the 'Bill' Music Video
10:59 Reflecting on the Song's Legacy
17:51 The Evolution of Music and Media
22:11 Conclusion and Farewell
23:17 Outro Theme
Get More From Us
- Pandora: https://qpnt.net/pandora
- Read Our Magazine: https://magazine.queuepoints.com
Support Us
- Shop Our Store: https://store.queuepoints.com
- Buy Us A Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/queuepointspod
- Contribute: https://cash.app/$queuepointspod
Follow Us On Social Media
- Facebook: https://facebook.com/queuepointspod
- Instagram: https://instagram.com/queuepointspod
- Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/queuepointspod.com
- YouTube: https://youtube.com/@queuepointspod
- TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@queuepointspod
#PrideMonth #PeggyScottAdams #Bill #BlackMusic #90sBlues #QueuePoints #QueerHistory #BlackQueerVoices #MusicPodcast
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podtrac - https://analytics.podtrac.com/privacy-policy-gdrp
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:16):
Greetings and welcome toanother episode of Queue Points podcast.
I am DJ Sir Daniel and my.
Name is Jay Ray, sometimesknown by my government as Johnnie
Ray Kornegay III and SirDaniel, we're in, we in the tv. You
know what that means?
Listen, that means we're goingto watch a little something something
together. We gotta, we gottawatch an archive. Because kids, back
(00:39):
in the days, we used to seethis thing. We used to watch television
on these really small boxesthat you hear see in front of you.
And one of our favorite thingsto do was to watch music videos back
in the day.
Yes.
And this particular video, JRay, I gotta say, this song, I really
think, I think that the kidscould dig this up and revamp it because
(01:01):
they're into a lot of whatthey're calling Southern soul now.
And this, I think this song Ithink fits into that category. So
who knows, we might singlehandedly be bringing back this particular
song and artist.
Oh, that would be something.So by the way, so who we are talking
about, y' all is. We aretalking. Well, we're talking about
(01:22):
the song, Bill. It was onPeggy Scott Adams 1996 release called
Help Yourself. Right, HelpYourself, Help Yourself. The song
was released in 1997 and itwas written by a man named Jimmy
Lewis who wrote and producedthe song. Which is very interesting
(01:46):
when we get.
Into the song, which is animportant point.
Yes, that is a very importantpoint. But it would also, Sir Daniel,
I think the young people todaywould revamp it like they would definitely
want to do something else withit. Because I do think this is a
song like another song we'vetalked about another man. That is
(02:07):
of its time. It is like of itstime and. But I think we need to
give the folks some context.So people actually, I think need
to see this and hear this. Sure.
We're gonna watch it togetheras a family.
(02:29):
So.
Because that's what we doaround here at Queue Points.
That's what we do around hereat Queue Points. So why don't we
do this, Sir Daniel? Why don'twe go ahead and watch Bill by Peggy
Scott Adams and then we willcome back, y' all and we will have
some discussion. Because I amsure there will be plenty things
(02:49):
to talk about.
Oh, yes, indeed.
So let's check it out.
Oh, that was ridiculously delicious.
Sir Daniel. You're like,that's my kind of carry it all.
I love a little bit of mess.And that was, that was camp. It was
(03:13):
the blues, it was R B. Andmost of all, it was Messy. It was
so messy, Jerry. I justremember the. The uproar that this
song caused back in 97. Allthe morning shows, the radio morning
shows, especially the blackones here in Atlanta, had the phone
(03:37):
lines lit up.
Yes.
When it came to Bill, becauseshe said, I was waiting on Betty,
Veronica, and Jill.
Yeah.
But I had no idea that I hadto deal with Bill.
With Bill.
(03:57):
Yeah.
So it's an interesting momentin time. Right. Songs are about moments
in time. This is. And the eraof the DL man is emerging. Right.
As a conversation point. TheInternet is exploding. Right. So
(04:18):
you have differentopportunities for folks to meet one
another, et cetera, et cetera.Right. Sidebar, Sir Daniel. Remember
when you couldn't tell peoplethat you met someone on the Internet?
Like, that was like.
Oh, yeah. It was so taboo. Itwas so taboo.
It was really taboo. Yes. Sothis is that era.
(04:40):
That era, yeah.
And this is also the era thehomo thug is emerging in this time
frame. So there's a lot ofthings socially that are happening
where sexuality is a lot morevisible in a lot of respects. And
(05:01):
so this song comes along andis in the canon, but I want to bring
in something. So this is froman interview with Peggy Scott Adams.
And here's what Peggy ScottAdams had to say about singing Bill
and I.
Think a PSA from psa.
A PSA from. From psa. You'reso good, Sir Daniel. So she said,
(05:27):
quote, I was as shocked as youwhen my producer at the time, the
late Jimmy Lewis, who wrotethe song, when he presented it to
me, you know, I thought thatit was gonna be, like, your typical.
The man I loved. And then shewas, like, loved another guy. I literally
hollered, and Ms. Scott Adamssaid, I'm not singing this. No way
(05:54):
I'm singing this. But shesaid, after some consideration, she
said, I'll go ahead and do it.But here's what she. She thought
as she reflected, she said,once you get. This is a quote. Once
you get past. For me, once youget past the shock of the song, I
(06:20):
realized that in the end, thesong is really. It was a homosexual
theme, but it's really aboutdeception and being deceived.
And.
A person who'd experienceddeception. So I was like, I understand.
Yeah. You know what? Billfalls in line with a. A historical
(06:46):
type, a historical genre ofsong about infidelity. You know,
we've had songs aboutconfrontation. We've had the. The.
Barbara. Hello, Shirley. Thisis Barbara.
Yeah.
Woman to woman. We had thoseconfrontation songs. We've had plenty
of songs about Cheating,getting caught, cheating. Infidelity
(07:07):
is just one of those subjectsthat is, is a human experience across
the board. It's one of thosethings that everybody can relate
to. And so for that, thesongwriter Mr. Lewis just tapped
into it and was like, you knowwhat? And probably just wanted to
tap into the zeitgeist andsay, what are people talking about?
(07:29):
What's so controversial? Andas you mentioned, you know, at this
time in 97, we're gettinglittle glimpses and flashes of different
types of relationships,different types of. So like you said,
sexual expression in. Inespecially because this was at the
height of the, the tabloid TV.This is @ the height of your Jerry
(07:53):
Springers, your Ricky, yourRicky, Ricky Lakes, you know, and
they always had on some typeof show dealing with sexuality and
sex. And so it, it was just apower move. It was a good power move
because it had. They hadeverybody talking about Bill and
his decisions. But can we getinto the video a little bit?
(08:15):
Okay. Okay, sir, let's, let'sdo it. Where you want to start? I
have thoughts about thisvideo. Where you want to start?
Okay. I am. And granted thiswas 1997, but to me there is just
something, I don't know,something deliberately insidious
(08:37):
about casting white men inthese roles.
Yes.
You know, I just don't thinkyou're gonna have. I mean, yes, there's
some relationships thathappen, but I don't know, it just
is far fetched for a white manto be cast as Bill. To me.
Yes.
(08:58):
I'm thinking if you really, ifthis is really like a down home conversation
that's happening, happening orsomething that's happens to some
people that, you know, itain't gonna be no.
Yeah.
It's gonna be a man that looksjust like your husband.
Yes.
And fits in with your family.Because that's, that's really what
a lot of women were dealingwith. The fact that black men were,
(09:21):
were finding intimacy inrelationships with other black men.
Yes.
So, you know, I just had alittle. That's my little two cents
on that. All this casting ofwhite men in these roles, especially
when it comes to being thelove interests of a primary character
which happens to be a blackman, just seems lazy. The casting
(09:42):
seems lazy and it's alsopushing forward. This is probably
a white director. I don'tknow. You know what, Jamie? It also,
it just came to me. Maybe it.Having a white man in the video makes
this more palatable. So blackpeople, what do you think?
(10:02):
I think, I actually think itplays into the stereotype Kind of
the age old stereotype that wehave about homosexuality in particular,
in that it is something thatwhite people had given or bestowed
(10:22):
and brought to black people. Ithink it more plays into that false
narrative. And that's where Ithink that part. When I rewatched
the video in preparation forour conversation, I had completely
forgotten about the context ofthe video. And then when I saw the
white man, I'm like, oh,there's that in here too. Like they're
(10:45):
doing the white man as well.And that's one of the things that
I know even if we did, iffolks did anything around Bill today,
they would have more care ofhow this was depicted in the music
video. Going to your questionabout making it more palatable, I
do think it's interesting tomention just how popular this song
(11:07):
was because Sir Daniel, youmight be kind of right. Bill peaked
at number 72 on the popcharts, which is a big. Like, it
was in. In the Hot 100. It wasnumber nine on the R and B charts,
and it was number one on theblues charts for a long time.
(11:28):
Wow.
So there might be something tothis music video and. And making
it more palatable. But, youknow, one of the things that wasn't
in the music video but is inthe song and is. Is a problematic.
So when the song kind ofextends out, it talks about the fact
(11:48):
that this woman's husband,whose name we don't know, leaves
with Bill, but kind of leavesthe family. So he's like, tell the
kids I love them. And all ofthat. That's a whole mess.
What?
Right, right. Tell the kids Ilove. Tell the kids I love them.
So basically I'm like, well,is he not gonna see the children?
(12:10):
Like, is he like, gone now? SoI have beef with that. I also have
beef, like up until the lastcouple, the last verse. So this is
the last two verses. So thatthe verse that ended the music video.
I didn't have beef with thesong up until it's like, oh, the
(12:34):
man was a queen who thought hewas a king.
Cause you gotta berate him.
You have to berate.
You gotta berate him. And thewomen have to walk away feeling,
saying something like, girl,you're not just gonna let him do
that to you. You got to saysomething. So you got to be rate
(12:54):
the man. You got to call him aqueen, but in a nice way. Because
this is still a. A song andblues song, so you're not actually
cussing anybody out. But yeah,songs like this definitely tapped
into, I think, a fear that aBlack that a lot of black women were
(13:16):
feeling. Because like you saidat that time, the whole discussion
of dlness was coming up. And,you know, you have popular writers
like Terry McMillan sprinklinginstances like this in her books.
So there was a heightenedawareness among black women, like
(13:39):
all the questions that theywere asking the men that they were
dating at the time, like,well, you live with your mama. Do
you have your own job?
Right.
Are you gay? You know, allthose things were starting to come
up in the. The collectiveconsciousness of, at the time, women
who were on the dating scene.And I'm, you know, to. I'm sure it
(14:02):
had to be hard for them. Ithad to be scary. Especially when
people are always presentingthings in this fashion to you, marketing
things to you. They'remarketing fear, weren't they, Jerry?
They were absolutely marketingmarketing fear. And at the same time,
telling stories that had. Thisis somebody's story. And I love that
(14:24):
you use that word. I thinkwhere the fear comes in is because
queerness in all of its manyforms was so quiet and in the dark
that people didn't feel likethey had to think about it. Right.
(14:49):
If a man says that he wants tobe with me, I don't have to think
about the fact that, oh, hemight be bisexual or he might be
something other. Right.Because he's with me. And I think
in the 90s, these things thatwere in the dark are now all of a
sudden in the light for us. Asthe Generation Xers. Remember, black
(15:10):
women were also reading ElinHarris in this time.
Yes.
Invisible life was now threeyears old by then. So I'm sure Mr.
Jimmy Lewis was hearing aboutthese books that are now emerging
where these characters existand all of this stuff. So, yeah,
I feel like folks were scaredand really didn't know what to do
(15:37):
about any of this. And itallows songs like Bill to kind of
take off.
Hmm. Is there. And we teasedabout it earlier, but is there a
way that this song could existtoday? Like, would it be. Could it
be handled in the same way? Orwould it have. Or would it be more.
(16:02):
I don't know. I guess I'mgoing to answer my own question.
I think if. If an artist wereto approach this song, approach this
subject matter today, I thinkI believe the young people today
are a little bit more clever.Or maybe this would be a non issue
(16:22):
to. No, no, this is still anissue to them because. Because they're.
They're still. People arestill making their comments and,
you know, queerness is stillunder attack, and it's it's in very
little different ways. Youknow, you have radio hosts who. Who
keep making their snide little comments.
(16:42):
They made a pride thing, whichis now getting. And people are reposting
that. I'm like, weren't wejust dragging this woman, like, last
week for some foolishness? Andnow this is, like, celebrated.
Yeah, it's weird, but. Yeah. Idon't know. I think today's artists
may be able to handlesomething like this with a little
(17:06):
bit more finesse.
Yeah, I think finesse is theright word. I. Yeah, I think finesse
is the right word. I will say,even with the problems that I have
with the music video and thesong, I think the storytelling is
(17:28):
great. It's great storytelling.
Listen, you can't beat blackpeople singing the blues. You cannot
beat us when it comes tosinging the blues. And the delivery,
the look of the video. Yeah,you. You just can't beat us when
it comes to stuff like that.So. Absolutely.
(17:50):
Yeah. And it's night. Andwhat's crazy about this, y' all.
So this is 1997. This song issquarely in the blues, in the blues
genre. Because when you lookat the video, when you look at even
the album cover for HelpYourself, like, it feels like a.
A generation behind, a couplegenerations behind. Kind of like
(18:12):
what gospel was doing then.Cause gospel was kind of going through
a metamorphosis in thismoment, too, because this song came
out in 97. And Missy Elliottdropped the, you know, super duper
fly in 97. You know what Imean? So we were doing other things
in that year. But this song isClear, is squarely in kind of classic
(18:37):
black blues and R and Bstorytelling, which is kind of refreshing
for the time, so.
Right. It's funny youmentioned that. I just thought of
the album cover itself. Andthe album cover, in comparison to
a Missy Elliott Super DuperFly looked very basic.
Yep.
And, kids, guess what? Therewas a time when albums were sold
(19:00):
on television. Yes, theywould. Especially blues records.
And. And some gospel records.They used to have flashiest commercials
where there would be theseblues collections. You would hear
we go, Wayne Ding Doodle, youknow, in the commercial. And all
these different blues legendswould be featured on these compilations.
(19:23):
Because there were certainlabels, like your K Tells and your
Rhino Records, that werespecializing in still putting together
compilations and releasingalbums of blues artists at the time.
So that' why that album hasthat look. I'm pretty certain there
was a commercial, a1,800commercial running on television
(19:43):
saying you could buy. Get youa copy of Peg, Scott Adams, if it's
not in stores, along with acover, your favorite Bo Diddley records
and Latimore. And so, yeah,we. You gotta. We gotta keep the
context, Jay Ray. And I think,yes. I don't know. I kind of miss
those days. I miss seeingthose commercials and knowing that
(20:07):
for the low price of 9.99, youcan order. You can get 50 CDs of
your favorite.
Listen, let me tell y' all,like, when I used to buy them smooth
grooves, that's how I learnedabout so many classic slow jams.
The smooth grooves. It was gotup to, like, smooth grooves. I don't
(20:29):
know. It was so many of those.But that, of course, the classic
commercial know, my brother,what was it? Was it hey, love?
No, no, my brother, you've gotto get your own.
Listen. I also. It wassomething about the. The pureness
of those types of things. Right.
(20:50):
The days of hearing having acandy liquor commercial on television
are done. But I kind of missthose days, Jay Ray.
Miss those days. Like, youknow, this particular song, it is
an interesting moment in time.Definitely certainly brought awareness
(21:11):
to diverse sexual experiencesand relationship experiences from
folks. Because I do think,going back to the lyrics, as we wrap
up, one of. There's a coupleof things that I thought were really
important. One, the woman inthis said, I don't feel ashamed and
I don't take the blame. Ithought that was really powerful
(21:35):
for her. Good for her.
Yes.
But also, I thought theconversation that when she asked
the man, like, hey, why didn'tyou, like, tell me that this was
a thing? Right. And for him tobe able to say, hey, I thought being
with you, that it wouldchange. And I'm like, fix. He literally
(21:58):
did think it would fix. Yeah. Yeah.
That's a whole nother conversation.
Yeah. This was Sir Daniel. I'mglad we got to watch this. For you
folks who have tuned in, inaudio, you should definitely hop
over to Queue Points magazinebecause you can watch us watch the
video, which is super dope.But thank you all for tuning in to
(22:22):
QPoints. If you can see ourfaces, if you can hear our voices,
go ahead and hit the subscribebutton wherever you are. Follow us
online at Qpoints Pod. You canvisit our website at Qpoints.com,
you can check out our archiveof shows, visit our magazine at qpoints
magazine, where you can checkout a whole bunch of content related
to our show and shop ourstore@store.qpoints.com Happy Pride,
(22:47):
y' all. We kick it off Pridewith Bill.
With Bill and another man andeverything else. Yeah, my God. Well,
listen, like I always say, inthis life, you have a choice. You
can either pick up the needle,or you can let the record spin. I
am DJ Sir Daniel.
And my name is Jay Ray.
And I'm Bill. And this isKeith. Boys podcast Dropping the
(23:11):
needle.
You done stole somebody, man.You done broke up a household.
I would never.
Greetings and welcome toanother episode of Queue Points podcast.
I am DJ Sir Daniel and my.
Name is Jay Ray, sometimesknown by my government as Johnnie
Ray Kornegay III and SirDaniel, we're in, we in the tv. You
know what that means?
Listen, that means we're goingto watch a little something something
together. We gotta, we gottawatch an archive. Because kids, back
(00:39):
in the days, we used to seethis thing. We used to watch television
on these really small boxesthat you hear see in front of you.
And one of our favorite thingsto do was to watch music videos back
in the day.
Yes.
And this particular video, JRay, I gotta say, this song, I really
think, I think that the kidscould dig this up and revamp it because
(01:01):
they're into a lot of whatthey're calling Southern soul now.
And this, I think this song Ithink fits into that category. So
who knows, we might singlehandedly be bringing back this particular
song and artist.
Oh, that would be something.So by the way, so who we are talking
about, y' all is. We aretalking. Well, we're talking about
(01:22):
the song, Bill. It was onPeggy Scott Adams 1996 release called
Help Yourself. Right, HelpYourself, Help Yourself. The song
was released in 1997 and itwas written by a man named Jimmy
Lewis who wrote and producedthe song. Which is very interesting
(01:46):
when we get.
Into the song, which is animportant point.
Yes, that is a very importantpoint. But it would also, Sir Daniel,
I think the young people todaywould revamp it like they would definitely
want to do something else withit. Because I do think this is a
song like another song we'vetalked about another man. That is
(02:07):
of its time. It is like of itstime and. But I think we need to
give the folks some context.So people actually, I think need
to see this and hear this. Sure.
We're gonna watch it togetheras a family.
(02:29):
So.
Because that's what we doaround here at Queue Points.
That's what we do around hereat Queue Points. So why don't we
do this, Sir Daniel? Why don'twe go ahead and watch Bill by Peggy
Scott Adams and then we willcome back, y' all and we will have
some discussion. Because I amsure there will be plenty things
(02:49):
to talk about.
Oh, yes, indeed.
So let's check it out.
Oh, that was ridiculously delicious.
Sir Daniel. You're like,that's my kind of carry it all.
I love a little bit of mess.And that was, that was camp. It was
(03:13):
the blues, it was R B. Andmost of all, it was Messy. It was
so messy, Jerry. I justremember the. The uproar that this
song caused back in 97. Allthe morning shows, the radio morning
shows, especially the blackones here in Atlanta, had the phone
(03:37):
lines lit up.
Yes.
When it came to Bill, becauseshe said, I was waiting on Betty,
Veronica, and Jill.
Yeah.
But I had no idea that I hadto deal with Bill.
With Bill.
(03:57):
Yeah.
So it's an interesting momentin time. Right. Songs are about moments
in time. This is. And the eraof the DL man is emerging. Right.
As a conversation point. TheInternet is exploding. Right. So
(04:18):
you have differentopportunities for folks to meet one
another, et cetera, et cetera.Right. Sidebar, Sir Daniel. Remember
when you couldn't tell peoplethat you met someone on the Internet?
Like, that was like.
Oh, yeah. It was so taboo. Itwas so taboo.
It was really taboo. Yes. Sothis is that era.
(04:40):
That era, yeah.
And this is also the era thehomo thug is emerging in this time
frame. So there's a lot ofthings socially that are happening
where sexuality is a lot morevisible in a lot of respects. And
(05:01):
so this song comes along andis in the canon, but I want to bring
in something. So this is froman interview with Peggy Scott Adams.
And here's what Peggy ScottAdams had to say about singing Bill
and I.
Think a PSA from psa.
A PSA from. From psa. You'reso good, Sir Daniel. So she said,
(05:27):
quote, I was as shocked as youwhen my producer at the time, the
late Jimmy Lewis, who wrotethe song, when he presented it to
me, you know, I thought thatit was gonna be, like, your typical.
The man I loved. And then shewas, like, loved another guy. I literally
hollered, and Ms. Scott Adamssaid, I'm not singing this. No way
(05:54):
I'm singing this. But shesaid, after some consideration, she
said, I'll go ahead and do it.But here's what she. She thought
as she reflected, she said,once you get. This is a quote. Once
you get past. For me, once youget past the shock of the song, I
(06:20):
realized that in the end, thesong is really. It was a homosexual
theme, but it's really aboutdeception and being deceived.
And.
A person who'd experienceddeception. So I was like, I understand.
Yeah. You know what? Billfalls in line with a. A historical
(06:46):
type, a historical genre ofsong about infidelity. You know,
we've had songs aboutconfrontation. We've had the. The.
Barbara. Hello, Shirley. Thisis Barbara.
Yeah.
Woman to woman. We had thoseconfrontation songs. We've had plenty
of songs about Cheating,getting caught, cheating. Infidelity
(07:07):
is just one of those subjectsthat is, is a human experience across
the board. It's one of thosethings that everybody can relate
to. And so for that, thesongwriter Mr. Lewis just tapped
into it and was like, you knowwhat? And probably just wanted to
tap into the zeitgeist andsay, what are people talking about?
(07:29):
What's so controversial? Andas you mentioned, you know, at this
time in 97, we're gettinglittle glimpses and flashes of different
types of relationships,different types of. So like you said,
sexual expression in. Inespecially because this was at the
height of the, the tabloid TV.This is @ the height of your Jerry
(07:53):
Springers, your Ricky, yourRicky, Ricky Lakes, you know, and
they always had on some typeof show dealing with sexuality and
sex. And so it, it was just apower move. It was a good power move
because it had. They hadeverybody talking about Bill and
his decisions. But can we getinto the video a little bit?
(08:15):
Okay. Okay, sir, let's, let'sdo it. Where you want to start? I
have thoughts about thisvideo. Where you want to start?
Okay. I am. And granted thiswas 1997, but to me there is just
something, I don't know,something deliberately insidious
(08:37):
about casting white men inthese roles.
Yes.
You know, I just don't thinkyou're gonna have. I mean, yes, there's
some relationships thathappen, but I don't know, it just
is far fetched for a white manto be cast as Bill. To me.
Yes.
(08:58):
I'm thinking if you really, ifthis is really like a down home conversation
that's happening, happening orsomething that's happens to some
people that, you know, itain't gonna be no.
Yeah.
It's gonna be a man that looksjust like your husband.
Yes.
And fits in with your family.Because that's, that's really what
a lot of women were dealingwith. The fact that black men were,
(09:21):
were finding intimacy inrelationships with other black men.
Yes.
So, you know, I just had alittle. That's my little two cents
on that. All this casting ofwhite men in these roles, especially
when it comes to being thelove interests of a primary character
which happens to be a blackman, just seems lazy. The casting
(09:42):
seems lazy and it's alsopushing forward. This is probably
a white director. I don'tknow. You know what, Jamie? It also,
it just came to me. Maybe it.Having a white man in the video makes
this more palatable. So blackpeople, what do you think?
(10:02):
I think, I actually think itplays into the stereotype Kind of
the age old stereotype that wehave about homosexuality in particular,
in that it is something thatwhite people had given or bestowed
(10:22):
and brought to black people. Ithink it more plays into that false
narrative. And that's where Ithink that part. When I rewatched
the video in preparation forour conversation, I had completely
forgotten about the context ofthe video. And then when I saw the
white man, I'm like, oh,there's that in here too. Like they're
(10:45):
doing the white man as well.And that's one of the things that
I know even if we did, iffolks did anything around Bill today,
they would have more care ofhow this was depicted in the music
video. Going to your questionabout making it more palatable, I
do think it's interesting tomention just how popular this song
(11:07):
was because Sir Daniel, youmight be kind of right. Bill peaked
at number 72 on the popcharts, which is a big. Like, it
was in. In the Hot 100. It wasnumber nine on the R and B charts,
and it was number one on theblues charts for a long time.
(11:28):
Wow.
So there might be something tothis music video and. And making
it more palatable. But, youknow, one of the things that wasn't
in the music video but is inthe song and is. Is a problematic.
So when the song kind ofextends out, it talks about the fact
(11:48):
that this woman's husband,whose name we don't know, leaves
with Bill, but kind of leavesthe family. So he's like, tell the
kids I love them. And all ofthat. That's a whole mess.
What?
Right, right. Tell the kids Ilove. Tell the kids I love them.
So basically I'm like, well,is he not gonna see the children?
(12:10):
Like, is he like, gone now? SoI have beef with that. I also have
beef, like up until the lastcouple, the last verse. So this is
the last two verses. So thatthe verse that ended the music video.
I didn't have beef with thesong up until it's like, oh, the
(12:34):
man was a queen who thought hewas a king.
Cause you gotta berate him.
You have to berate.
You gotta berate him. And thewomen have to walk away feeling,
saying something like, girl,you're not just gonna let him do
that to you. You got to saysomething. So you got to be rate
(12:54):
the man. You got to call him aqueen, but in a nice way. Because
this is still a. A song andblues song, so you're not actually
cussing anybody out. But yeah,songs like this definitely tapped
into, I think, a fear that aBlack that a lot of black women were
(13:16):
feeling. Because like you saidat that time, the whole discussion
of dlness was coming up. And,you know, you have popular writers
like Terry McMillan sprinklinginstances like this in her books.
So there was a heightenedawareness among black women, like
(13:39):
all the questions that theywere asking the men that they were
dating at the time, like,well, you live with your mama. Do
you have your own job?
Right.
Are you gay? You know, allthose things were starting to come
up in the. The collectiveconsciousness of, at the time, women
who were on the dating scene.And I'm, you know, to. I'm sure it
(14:02):
had to be hard for them. Ithad to be scary. Especially when
people are always presentingthings in this fashion to you, marketing
things to you. They'remarketing fear, weren't they, Jerry?
They were absolutely marketingmarketing fear. And at the same time,
telling stories that had. Thisis somebody's story. And I love that
(14:24):
you use that word. I thinkwhere the fear comes in is because
queerness in all of its manyforms was so quiet and in the dark
that people didn't feel likethey had to think about it. Right.
(14:49):
If a man says that he wants tobe with me, I don't have to think
about the fact that, oh, hemight be bisexual or he might be
something other. Right.Because he's with me. And I think
in the 90s, these things thatwere in the dark are now all of a
sudden in the light for us. Asthe Generation Xers. Remember, black
(15:10):
women were also reading ElinHarris in this time.
Yes.
Invisible life was now threeyears old by then. So I'm sure Mr.
Jimmy Lewis was hearing aboutthese books that are now emerging
where these characters existand all of this stuff. So, yeah,
I feel like folks were scaredand really didn't know what to do
(15:37):
about any of this. And itallows songs like Bill to kind of
take off.
Hmm. Is there. And we teasedabout it earlier, but is there a
way that this song could existtoday? Like, would it be. Could it
be handled in the same way? Orwould it have. Or would it be more.
(16:02):
I don't know. I guess I'mgoing to answer my own question.
I think if. If an artist wereto approach this song, approach this
subject matter today, I thinkI believe the young people today
are a little bit more clever.Or maybe this would be a non issue
(16:22):
to. No, no, this is still anissue to them because. Because they're.
They're still. People arestill making their comments and,
you know, queerness is stillunder attack, and it's it's in very
little different ways. Youknow, you have radio hosts who. Who
keep making their snide little comments.
(16:42):
They made a pride thing, whichis now getting. And people are reposting
that. I'm like, weren't wejust dragging this woman, like, last
week for some foolishness? Andnow this is, like, celebrated.
Yeah, it's weird, but. Yeah. Idon't know. I think today's artists
may be able to handlesomething like this with a little
(17:06):
bit more finesse.
Yeah, I think finesse is theright word. I. Yeah, I think finesse
is the right word. I will say,even with the problems that I have
with the music video and thesong, I think the storytelling is
(17:28):
great. It's great storytelling.
Listen, you can't beat blackpeople singing the blues. You cannot
beat us when it comes tosinging the blues. And the delivery,
the look of the video. Yeah,you. You just can't beat us when
it comes to stuff like that.So. Absolutely.
(17:50):
Yeah. And it's night. Andwhat's crazy about this, y' all.
So this is 1997. This song issquarely in the blues, in the blues
genre. Because when you lookat the video, when you look at even
the album cover for HelpYourself, like, it feels like a.
A generation behind, a couplegenerations behind. Kind of like
(18:12):
what gospel was doing then.Cause gospel was kind of going through
a metamorphosis in thismoment, too, because this song came
out in 97. And Missy Elliottdropped the, you know, super duper
fly in 97. You know what Imean? So we were doing other things
in that year. But this song isClear, is squarely in kind of classic
(18:37):
black blues and R and Bstorytelling, which is kind of refreshing
for the time, so.
Right. It's funny youmentioned that. I just thought of
the album cover itself. Andthe album cover, in comparison to
a Missy Elliott Super DuperFly looked very basic.
Yep.
And, kids, guess what? Therewas a time when albums were sold
(19:00):
on television. Yes, theywould. Especially blues records.
And. And some gospel records.They used to have flashiest commercials
where there would be theseblues collections. You would hear
we go, Wayne Ding Doodle, youknow, in the commercial. And all
these different blues legendswould be featured on these compilations.
(19:23):
Because there were certainlabels, like your K Tells and your
Rhino Records, that werespecializing in still putting together
compilations and releasingalbums of blues artists at the time.
So that' why that album hasthat look. I'm pretty certain there
was a commercial, a1,800commercial running on television
(19:43):
saying you could buy. Get youa copy of Peg, Scott Adams, if it's
not in stores, along with acover, your favorite Bo Diddley records
and Latimore. And so, yeah,we. You gotta. We gotta keep the
context, Jay Ray. And I think,yes. I don't know. I kind of miss
those days. I miss seeingthose commercials and knowing that
(20:07):
for the low price of 9.99, youcan order. You can get 50 CDs of
your favorite.
Listen, let me tell y' all,like, when I used to buy them smooth
grooves, that's how I learnedabout so many classic slow jams.
The smooth grooves. It was gotup to, like, smooth grooves. I don't
(20:29):
know. It was so many of those.But that, of course, the classic
commercial know, my brother,what was it? Was it hey, love?
No, no, my brother, you've gotto get your own.
Listen. I also. It wassomething about the. The pureness
of those types of things. Right.
(20:50):
The days of hearing having acandy liquor commercial on television
are done. But I kind of missthose days, Jay Ray.
Miss those days. Like, youknow, this particular song, it is
an interesting moment in time.Definitely certainly brought awareness
(21:11):
to diverse sexual experiencesand relationship experiences from
folks. Because I do think,going back to the lyrics, as we wrap
up, one of. There's a coupleof things that I thought were really
important. One, the woman inthis said, I don't feel ashamed and
I don't take the blame. Ithought that was really powerful
(21:35):
for her. Good for her.
Yes.
But also, I thought theconversation that when she asked
the man, like, hey, why didn'tyou, like, tell me that this was
a thing? Right. And for him tobe able to say, hey, I thought being
with you, that it wouldchange. And I'm like, fix. He literally
(21:58):
did think it would fix. Yeah. Yeah.
That's a whole nother conversation.
Yeah. This was Sir Daniel. I'mglad we got to watch this. For you
folks who have tuned in, inaudio, you should definitely hop
over to Queue Points magazinebecause you can watch us watch the
video, which is super dope.But thank you all for tuning in to
(22:22):
QPoints. If you can see ourfaces, if you can hear our voices,
go ahead and hit the subscribebutton wherever you are. Follow us
online at Qpoints Pod. You canvisit our website at Qpoints.com,
you can check out our archiveof shows, visit our magazine at qpoints
magazine, where you can checkout a whole bunch of content related
to our show and shop ourstore@store.qpoints.com Happy Pride,
(22:47):
y' all. We kick it off Pridewith Bill.
With Bill and another man andeverything else. Yeah, my God. Well,
listen, like I always say, inthis life, you have a choice. You
can either pick up the needle,or you can let the record spin. I
am DJ Sir Daniel.
And my name is Jay Ray.
And I'm Bill. And this isKeith. Boys podcast Dropping the
(23:11):
needle.
You done stole somebody, man.You done broke up a household.
I would never.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.