Hello and welcome to Rad Mom Radio!
This week my guest is Heidi Fiedler. Heidi is a writer, editor, and creative coach who helps mothers find ease and joy through small, creative moments. She's currently working on her own book about making space for creativity in motherhood.
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Episode Transcript
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Natalie (00:01):
Hello and welcome to Rad Mom Radio, a podcast
dedicated to moms and all theirfavorite topics.
My name's Natalie and I'm yourhost.
(00:23):
Hello and welcome back toRadMomRadio.
Thank you for joining me thisweek for another episode.
It is officially September, soit's almost fall.
This is Riley's birthday month,which was funny because on
September 1st, I told him, thisis your birthday month, and he
said, it's mine.
(00:44):
Birthday month like it was areally unusual thing.
It was a really foreign conceptto him So this is the month that
we kind of start to think abouthow to celebrate him and it's
interesting how that changesevery year He actually just told
me today that he wants anelectric guitar.
I think it's funny like being aparent You know, you actually
(01:07):
consider getting your kidsthings like that like getting an
eight year old an electricguitar Like it's somewhere in my
brain.
I know that that's Kind ofridiculous, but I still want to
get it for him and I might whoknows We'll see you could get a
kid's electric guitar.
It's not super expensive, butwould he use it?
I don't know.
(01:28):
Would it be allowed?
Absolutely.
So I don't know, we'll see.
But this week I have a reallygood episode to share with you.
My guest is Heidi Fiedler.
And Heidi is an author.
And Heidi is kind of like acreativity coach.
So she really enjoys helpingmoms.
(01:50):
find time in their lives forcreativity and helping them to
find little things that they cando in their lives that are
creative, that they really enjoyjust because as moms, you know,
we do focus so much on ourchildren and on everything that
has to do with our kids.
And it really can be so good foryour mental health to find time
(02:14):
to do things that help youexpress your creativity.
So she spends a lot of timedoing that and she's very
passionate about that.
Heidi also has an autistic childso we talked a lot about that.
The struggles in getting adiagnosis and getting services.
And how different, you know,autistic people are, like every
(02:36):
autistic person is a uniqueindividual and how do you as a
parent honor who your child is?
And so we talked a lot aboutthat, about celebrating your
children, accepting them for whothey are.
And we also talked a lot aboutcreativity.
What does it mean to becreative?
What are some of the hang upsthat people come across when
they want to be creative?
(02:58):
You know, finding time forcreativity.
And then.
Something that happens, it'sinteresting, I don't know if
this happens in other countries,but definitely in America it
seems like we're always tryingto figure out how to monetize
everything.
You know, everything has toproduce something instead of
just doing something because Ithelps you express yourself, or
(03:20):
it's just good for your soul, oryour mind, or your heart.
So, it was really fun to talk toHeidi.
She's such a lovely, sweet lady,and I really enjoyed my time
with her.
You can learn more about Heidiby going to her website.
It's HelloHeidiFiedler.
com and her last name is spelledF I E D L E R.
(03:42):
You can also find her onInstagram.
And Substack, which we talkedabout.
But I still haven't checked itout, so I don't really know how
all of that works, but yeahdefinitely check her out.
She has a really cool website,lots of resources.
One that we talked about is afree guide, it's called 7 Days
of Inspiration, you can findthat on her website.
(04:05):
But yeah, I really enjoyed thisconversation with Heidi.
And I hope that you do too.
This is my interview with HeidiFiedler.
Hi, Heidi.
Welcome to rad mom radio.
Thanks, Natalie.
(04:26):
It's so good to be here.
Yeah.
Thank you for joining me today.
I didn't get a chance to ask youthis where, like what part of
the world
Heidi (04:33):
are you in?
I'm outside of Boston.
We're about an hour West ofBoston in Massachusetts.
Natalie (04:39):
Cool.
Okay.
So what are your guys summerslike?
Because we're like officially insummer
Heidi (04:43):
right now.
We are officially in summer, andthis is my first summer with a
school aged child, which made itfeel a little more like,
definitive, like there's a clearbeginning, a clear end to
summer.
And for us, our son is going tobe home with us.
It's all summer and he will goto summer school, I think like
(05:07):
five weeks in the middle ofsummer.
It's a very like specific chunkof time.
It's maybe like three hours aday, three days a week for five
weeks.
So we also have a nanny comingin the afternoons and besides
that we, we just decided notravel, no, like we couldn't
(05:28):
really make any camps work oranything like that.
So.
It feels very, it still feelskind of choppy to me, but we're
just trying to settle in, findour flow.
Yeah.
Natalie (05:39):
You guys have one son, and he's six years old.
Do you guys have other kids?
Heidi (05:46):
No, he's our only child.
Okay.
And we adopted him after areally long time of trying to,
adopt.
We originally lived inCalifornia and started the
process there and then we had tostop when we moved to
Massachusetts and start again.
And it's just a long process foreveryone.
So yeah, he's our only child andhe is six and he really had a
(06:09):
great school year.
But kindergarten was like ahuge, huge change for him.
And so we've all been kind oftrying to catch our breath a
little bit.
Natalie (06:19):
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
It's a huge like adjustment, allthe transitions.
Heidi (06:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Our son he's autistic and hestarted on He started with the
six hour a day schedule, and weended up shifting to the three
hour a day schedule after acouple months, and then we would
do like, OT and speech and stuffin the afternoon, and it still
(06:46):
felt like a lot.
It never felt like he was like,relaxed, and like, everything
was like, manageable, but he'sgonna do the six hour schedule
next year, and I'm...
We've been building up andhopefully he will have the
stamina for it.
Natalie (07:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
How old was he when you guysadopted him?
Heidi (07:07):
He was a baby.
He was just a couple days old.
Oh, wow.
That's
Natalie (07:11):
cool.
So...
We'll get into like all of your,you know, like talking about
being a mom and your career andeverything But before that I'm a
big fan of icebreaker questionsjust because I like to know
random things about people I dotry to pick ones that kind of
make sense for the person sobecause you work in you know,
(07:34):
writing and publishing andyou're an author, your questions
are book related.
So my first one was like, whatis your favorite book from your
childhood?
Because I know like there arecertain books that are just like
stamps on our childhood that weremember the cover, we remember
(07:54):
the story.
So what's that one
Heidi (07:56):
for you?
Yeah, I that's such a greatquestion because I think there's
different books like atdifferent stages for me but one
that like I had kind offorgotten and then came back to
when I was like I probably waslooking for something for my
son, but I feel like I Istumbled on my old copy of
(08:18):
Blueberries for Sal, which isthis book that takes place in
Maine.
And I think it was, I don'tthink it was a new book when I
read it, but it has like a veryvintage feel to it.
And there's just something aboutlike, when I open those pages
again, I'm like, I have like afeeling of being four years old.
And like, I should get that bookout again now.
(08:40):
Cause my son is a loose tooth.
I just remember like, but it.
It has a girl whose tooth isloose and she's like on this
little dingy boat with her dadand they're like, I think
they're searching for clams ormussels or something, but it
feels like very lived in.
I must have read that book somany times and been like, I
don't know anything about thisworld and it's so interesting to
(09:04):
me.
Yeah,
Natalie (09:05):
I think, you know how like, as adults we have like
comfort shows and comfortmovies, I think kids probably
are the same way with books,like they have like books that
they just, that we just don'texpect, there's little things
there that, you know, that bringcomfort and all that stuff.
Heidi (09:25):
For sure.
Yeah.
Natalie (09:26):
Yeah.
And then my other question was,because there's There's
different people, right?
Like there's people who, as faras readers go, you know people
who keep every book They have amillion books on their bookshelf
and then there are people likethey read the book and then they
like give it away They don'twant to keep it So this could be
(09:46):
an easy question or a hard oneBut if you could only keep three
books on your bookshelf, likeonly three books that you could
keep with you forever What wouldthey be and why?
Heidi (09:57):
Oh, that's a really, yeah, that is a hard one.
The first book that came to mindis This Proud Heart, which is a
maybe like 19, 1920s book?
I'm not sure.
Maybe a little, a little less, Imean 1940s.
But it, it's a book that mygrandmother read, my mom read,
and I read.
And we all read it many times.
(10:19):
And that book feels just like athing that needs to be a part of
our family.
And.
Like, I mean, most of the booksthat are on my shelf now are
children's books, because that'swhat I do for work, and it's,
like, there's a good excuse forkeeping those.
But I think some of the books,like, if I had to choose three,
(10:41):
it would be, like, books that Igrew up reading and felt really,
like formative.
Maybe, like, The Witches byRoald Dahl.
I really like that book.
And there's another book Now I'mblanking on the, the author's
name, but it's a, it's a journalthat this woman wrote.
And it's just like her kind of,it's nonfiction.
(11:03):
It's her personal experiencetrying to notice what makes her
happy and then do more of whatmakes her happy.
And that's an older book toothat it was just like one of the
first books that I had read thatkind of had that perspective.
Right.
Really like.
Spent a lot of time thinkingabout it, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
(11:23):
I
Natalie (11:24):
hadn't thought about picking ones that were
formative, but that makes a lotof sense.
Kind of like books that areattached to some kind of growth,
or like, new understanding.
Heidi (11:36):
Yeah.
Yeah, my husband has a giant,like, edition of Susan Cooper's
books, the little middle gradenovels, and he read those when
he was, like, ten, and he justre reads those whenever he...
Whenever he's in doubt, he islike, reading those again, and
it's a total comfort read, andjust very formative, but also
(11:58):
like, I know exactly what I'mgonna get when I open this book.
Natalie (12:03):
There's something about knowing what to expect that's
nice, for sure.
So, tell us about you, like, I'mreally interested in hearing
about what you do for work, andyour family, and all that stuff.
Heidi (12:19):
Yeah so I'm a writer and an editor and I tend to focus on
children's books.
I specialize in picture booksand chapter books and non
fiction for kids, and then I'malso working on my own book
about creativity and motherhoodwhich is my first book that I've
written for grown ups.
I haven't figured out a betterway to say that yet, but it's
(12:41):
for grown ups, and I usuallyhave about, like, maybe two
hours a day to work if thingsare going according to plan.
And I've, I worked in house fora long time at several different
publishers, and then I wentfreelance when we moved out to
Massachusetts maybe eight yearsago.
So, that was like a really bigshift for me, and...
(13:05):
I wasn't sure how much work Icould do once we had kids and
that has kind of evolved aswe've seen, like, what our son
needs and what we can handle aspeople.
You have to keep sustaining andgoing through things and, you
know, of course the pandemic waslike its own stress test on all
(13:26):
of that.
Yeah.
Natalie (13:29):
What, like, how did you get into writing?
Heidi (13:34):
I was probably one of those people that like people
always saying, Oh, you should dothis or you should think about
doing this.
And I kind of was like not keenon the idea of working in
publishing because I felt like.
I already love books.
Like, why would I want to ruinthat?
Or like, maybe that would kindof make them not fun to me.
(13:57):
Which I don't think was theworst instinct in the world, but
also like, I am drawn to thisand I love book people.
I like talking about books withother book people.
And I like the process ofcreating something
collaboratively.
And I really like thedevelopmental stage.
So like coming up with the ideaand brainstorming and.
(14:19):
Bringing something out ofnothing into being is really
interesting to me.
What are you reading right
Natalie (14:26):
now?
Heidi (14:28):
I just finished Unicorn Space by Eve Rodsky, which is
about like creating space forcreativity in your life.
And then I'm reading anotherbook, actually I have my pile
right here Drawing, Drawing YourOwn Path, which is like for
visual artists like sketchingand different techniques, but
(14:50):
it's written by a a meditationteacher.
So it has a very specific angleto it.
Those are both work related.
I, I'm like, I do a lot ofreading for work and then I try
to have like a clear not workbook too but I haven't started a
new not work book yet.
Natalie (15:09):
Yeah I didn't think about that.
Does your reading for work causeyou to have like burnout on
reading for fun?
Heidi (15:19):
Not burnout like I always want to read more but there's
just a limit to how much youknow quiet time I can craft out
of any day so it's I just I'malways like choosing between do
I want to be.
Reading something that, youknow, would be productive or
inspiring or helpful.
Or do I want to read somethingthat's like really truly feels
(15:41):
like an escape and, you know, Idon't have to think about work.
Natalie (15:48):
I have noticed like talking about books and
recommending books has becomelike it's a little I guess like
this little subsection or likethis little pocket on social
media where people talk about,you know, books.
Do you follow any of that?
Heidi (16:05):
Totally, yeah.
I'm on Instagram and Substackand there's a lot of, there's
Bookstagram which is like thebook side of Instagram and then
Substack is basically like abunch of writers talking to
other writers right now.
There's, there's probably somenon writers there but it's a lot
of writers.
And I used to like Back in theday like maybe 20 years ago work
(16:26):
in a bookstore, and you knowthat was our job was like
sharing your recommendations andbeing Excited about a book and
like getting someone else toread it And it's funny to be
kind of on the other side of itnow because I I can't keep up
with all the books that are outthere by any means so I like
hearing those recommendationsand always my To be read pile is
(16:49):
bigger than the time available.
Yeah,
Natalie (16:55):
there's this.
I've never experienced thisbefore, but like, you know, the,
the term FOMO, like fear ofmissing out, but having like
book FOMO for this book calledthe fourth wing that everyone's
talking about, I guess it's somekind of like fantasy book, which
is funny because I don't evenread fantasy, but people are
(17:16):
talking about it so much.
Heidi (17:17):
I think I might know what you're talking about because
when they talk about it, they'relike, you must.
Yeah.
Natalie (17:22):
Well, you can't even get it right now.
Like it's in my cart on Amazonand it's like, One to two months
of a wait, so it's so popularthat it's like You probably have
to like get someone to lend youtheir copy, but I've never had
like that kind of feeling beforelike I just want to read this
book so bad because everyone'stalking about it, you know what
(17:45):
I mean?
So that's like a book that I'mreally wanting to read right now
just because like, I feel likeI'm missing out on something.
Everyone's talking about howgreat it is and it's like, okay,
well, you know.
Now I want to read it,
Heidi (18:01):
but it's nice to know what everyone is talking about.
I don't think it even existsnow.
E.
W.
Entertainment Weekly, I think,went under, but for a long time
I subscribed to EntertainmentWeekly just because I kind of
like knowing what everyone elseis talking about and like being
able to connect about thosethings.
Yeah, yeah.
Natalie (18:22):
But yeah, it's, it's kind of fun to see like people
so into reading.
For
Heidi (18:28):
sure.
Yes.
Yeah, there's lots, there'salways talk about is publishing
dead or are print books dead?
Or, you know, people don't readbooks the way they used to or
whatever.
But there is a vibrant readingcommunity out there and I, I've
never had enough time to readand I think most of the people
in those communities feel likethey don't have enough time to
(18:50):
read either.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Natalie (18:52):
All the things you'd want to read, for sure.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So kind of like switching overinto like the, the mom part of
your life.
So you adopted your son when hewas a baby and he is diagnosed
with autism?
Heidi (19:09):
Yeah, he was diagnosed when he was four, I think.
And that was like a, atelehealth diagnosis because
that was during the pandemic.
And that was, I guess, two yearsago.
So we've had a little time tolearn about it and kind of find
some support.
(19:30):
It feels like, at least for us,when we were getting the
diagnosis, like they, they giveyou like a packet and then sort
of just send you on your way.
And the packet was.
really outdated.
It just felt like what they weretelling us to do was like not
(19:52):
only onerous for us, like itsounded overwhelming, but it was
not going to be helpful or youcould even be harmful for our
son.
And it took a lot of work andjust, I guess, patients or like
persistence to keep reading,taking workshops, you know,
(20:14):
talking to other people.
Just to get set up with theclinic, you know, getting speech
and OT and all of that stuff.
And I feel like we're in an okayplace right now.
We moved to this house thatwe're in right now about a year
ago because we had a really badexperience with the school
(20:37):
district before when our son wasstill in preschool.
And we wanted to be in a schooldistrict that really Could offer
a lot of support and we've beenamazed and so grateful for
everyone at this school So thathas been a huge change and a
really positive change for us
Natalie (20:57):
What was it that prompted you guys to look into a
diagnosis?
Heidi (21:02):
Yeah, like I said, it was pretty deep in the pandemic so I
think for us we we might nothave done anything right away
because He's our only child.
We didn't really have anythingto compare it to, and it was
just the two of us, like, somany kids were struggling and
having, you know, communicationissues or behavior issues or
(21:25):
whatever, because They're stuckat home with two people forever,
and like, that's not really howit's supposed to be.
So, it was very easy to be like,we don't know if this is because
you're three, or because you'reliving in a pandemic, or because
this is just who you are, what,you know, and our son had a lot
of A lot of medical issues, alot of physical medical issues
(21:48):
that we had navigated throughthe, like, that physical side of
the medical system.
He had surgery when he was onefor some kidney issues and then
had a long history of GI issues.
And it was through the GI issuesthat they said it would make
sense to get him evaluated.
There's a high correlation, I'msure you know, between.
(22:11):
and autistic people.
So they were really the onesthat referred us and said, think
about this.
And now that I know more aboutit, like I can see, yeah, that
makes a lot of sense, but at thetime it was sort of like, okay,
maybe, I don't know.
And actually as, as we learnedmore and like.
(22:32):
just navigated this world more.
My husband realized, Oh, I'mautistic too.
Coincidentally, not because hehas any biological connection,
but it just never was on hisradar either.
And as he read more and more, hewas like, this is definitely me.
And that's been reallyinteresting to like, and really
helpful to be like here as asuccessful, full grown adult who
(22:57):
is, yes, his share of strugglesfor sure.
But like, This is one side ofthe spectrum.
There's another side.
Everyone is going to presentdifferently and No, as you know,
like if you know one autisticperson, you only know one
autistic person.
It just means so many differentthings.
So Having him as sort of like acounterbalance has been really
(23:19):
great
Natalie (23:20):
Did he end up getting an evaluation also?
Heidi (23:24):
He hasn't although he's thought about it It's just very
challenging as an adult try andget that evaluation there's a
huge weight limit for kids andthey're Working hard to
prioritize kids that don't haveany diagnosis, at least in
Massachusetts, it's, it can be aseveral year wait limit or wait
(23:44):
list for your first diagnosis.
So if there's anything else thatyou might want to get diagnosed
where they really try and like.
Put you lower on the queue.
And if you're an adult, it'slike, good luck,
Natalie (23:56):
right?
It's crazy.
My son, Riley, his, his waittime.
Well, it was about six months.
And when I tell people thatthey're like, Oh, wow.
Like, so six months is already along time.
But the fact that you could haveto wait at least a year for a
child is just crazy becausethat's the only way they get any
(24:21):
kind of support is with adiagnosis.
Heidi (24:24):
So, yeah, that was the thing I didn't understand.
And, you know, we, we reallywent through like that whole up
and down rollercoaster of like,do we want to do this?
Do we want this label?
What does the label mean?
And a lot of that was reallybased on outdated understanding
of what it meant, but also notunderstanding that you need that
(24:46):
diagnosis to get any servicesand really like.
Peeve the way for the nextseveral years.
Natalie (24:55):
Yeah.
Unfortunately, it's like thatwith anything in mental health
where it's like, the diagnosisis like the key that unlocks.
Heidi (25:06):
I was going to add that my friend, she has an autistic
child and she has some otherkids with other diagnoses.
And we, we were always goingback and forth about like, what
does this mean?
And like, we have to keepreminding ourselves at least,
like.
It is a label to get theservices and it's not going to
explain everything.
(25:26):
It's not going to make perfectsense.
It's not a coherent theory.
Totally like, you know, they'vehad this diagnosis for what?
Like 50 years, maybe like it'sstill very new for everyone.
We're all still learning and.
There's just no perfect, like,match between a person and these
(25:50):
bullet points in the DSL.
Natalie (25:53):
And I think also, like, the way that you approach an
evaluation is, like, there's afilter, like, on that.
You know, every individual,like, for instance, I have a
tendency to minimize things thatI experience.
So if I go and take a testabout, you know, like ADHD or
(26:14):
OCD or something like that, I'mgoing to minimize my experience
because that's part of my, Idon't want to say personality,
it's part of my, my upbringingwas always to minimize what I'm
going through.
So if I'm going to answer aquestion, I'm going to be like,
well, it's not all the time.
(26:34):
So it's not that bad.
So I guess I don't have that.
And then that's not the way thecriteria are written.
They're not written for thatkind of filtered expression or
whatever.
They're written concretely.
So I think that it can be veryhard for some people to get an
appropriate diagnosis becausejust because of their own filter
(26:57):
on things, or maybe they're notthat self aware or maybe they
think everyone does that thing.
So it's not a big deal.
So it's just, It's almost likeyou would need to be prepped for
the evaluation, you know, liketaught how to take an
evaluation.
Heidi (27:15):
I totally know what you mean.
And I think one of my hangups isfeeling like what's the point if
we don't know what to do aboutit afterwards?
Like if there's nothing thatwill help or what, what is the
plan afterwards?
And at least on our end, likethat has been something I've,
I've shifted my view on.
(27:35):
And I think there is a lot thatcomes just having.
Some mental model of what'sgoing on and why, like, maybe
you don't understand in themoment or big picture, there's a
lot of mystery still, but notfeeling like we did something
wrong or we're not, we're notlike missing a memo that every
(27:57):
other parent got or just feelinglike they're also like when
you're looking at a Autisticadults, like there is this other
path forward that we can learnfrom and if we didn't know if we
didn't have this label or wehadn't gone through the
evaluation, we would not havelearned about that world and
(28:21):
engage with the disabilitycommunity and just, it really
has shifted so much.
Even if, I don't know if speechand OT are that helpful.
I think they are, but I, I, Imean, also I think time is
helpful too.
Natalie (28:40):
Absolutely.
Time is super helpful.
I think that that's somethingthat's hard to comprehend as a
parent.
Like when you have a smallchild, there's this like, All of
a sudden it's like this weirdcap on your child, like this,
well, what are they gonna beable to do, what are they not
gonna be able to do, instead ofalways thinking of them as
(29:00):
someone who could do whateverthey want.
Like they could do this, theycould do that, it's almost like
all of a sudden there's thislike ceiling on them and their
potential.
But time does wonders.
Like, that's the thing too, is Ithink we forget that they,
they're still gonna develop.
Like, it is a developmentaldisability, but it doesn't mean
(29:22):
that they stop developing.
It just means they develop at adifferent rate.
And I personally believe, justbased on what I've observed in
my son, is that I think someautistic people are not burdened
by the expectations of others.
(29:43):
Some are, but like he's not,like he really doesn't care if
you think he should be doingthis, this or that, so he's
going to do it when he wants to.
And so it's confusing because itlooks like maybe he can't or
doesn't know how to, but it'sreally not that, it's just that
he personally, because of hisautism, is not caught up on what
(30:05):
you think he should be doing,you know what I mean?
He's going to do it when hefeels like it, it's always on
his own timeline.
Heidi (30:13):
So.
If my son is teaching me alesson, like in some kind of
we're aligned, we're puttogether by the universe kind of
way, it's like, you need tobreak some rules and like the
rules don't matter really, youknow, which is, I don't think of
(30:34):
myself as a huge rule follower.
I don't think that that wereparticularly like rule heavy
family, but I mean.
You know, he's, he's testing allof that and not in a, not in a
willful way, not in a liketrying to push us past our
(30:54):
boundaries or something.
Although it sometimes feels likethat, but more in a, like, this
is just coming natural to me.
Like I show up in the world.
I do not care what the rulesare.
And why would I like, we all getto be ourselves.
We all can do things in our ownway, unapologetically, and just
(31:18):
like, forget all those shouldsand things that were constantly.
Hold as we grow up most of thetime.
And then I w I would love to bea person who could let a lot
more of that go.
It's definitely a work inprogress.
Yeah,
Natalie (31:34):
definitely.
That's a hard one.
I always admire that when hejust is himself.
I'm like, wow.
I feel like you've conqueredsomething at eight that.
You know, 30 years plus I stillhaven't, you know,
Heidi (31:48):
conquered that, but I hope that us protecting that for
them is I mean, I think that isvaluable.
And even if we are strugglingwith that ourselves, we are
doing our best to let them staywho they are.
And I do think if they, at leastour son, if he was in a
different home, if we weredifferent people, you know, He
(32:11):
could have really shut down andhe could have really had a very
different six years of feelinglike he was just a bad kid in
the wrong place and, you know, Idon't want that for him.
Natalie (32:27):
It's kind of interesting how things work out
that way.
Like when you're thinking aboutkind of him ending up where he
needed to be, you know, so thathe can be himself.
That's pretty cool.
When you think about it, like,does your, cause you said your
husband, you know.
Recognizes his own autistictraits.
(32:47):
Do you think that that made iteasier for him to kind of relate
to your son?
Heidi (32:52):
Probably somewhat.
They are very different.
But I think it's honestly, Ithink it's more that it has
softened.
He's my husband's view ofhimself.
It's given him a little morecompassion for what he's gone
through and yeah, why he feelsdifferent and those kinds of
things.
(33:13):
But I also think.
He sees the value of like, if wecan get to the other side of
childhood and he doesn't feel,if our son doesn't feel excluded
or less than or like he didsomething wrong or like, just if
we can protect some of that forhim, we will have Broken a
(33:34):
cycle, even though it wasn'tthis biological thing to, to
change what my husbandexperienced as a child and
through adulthood to make thateasier for our son, I think he
feels really passionate aboutthat and, you know, to help him
be his own person and protectthat.
Yeah.
(33:54):
That's
Natalie (33:54):
awesome.
What specifically would you say?
Cause you know, we talked abouthow every autistic person is
different.
What would you say your son's?
biggest challenges are when itcomes to being autistic.
Heidi (34:10):
It's hard to sort out like what is autistic or not, of
course.
But he, he does havecommunication issues.
He doesn't use a device, buthe's a distalt language
processor.
He has used scripts a lot.
He's really come a long waysand.
Sometimes I think, oh, someonemight not notice, but actually
(34:32):
they would notice probablypretty quickly.
It's just that I'm used to likea lot of pulling in the gaps and
mind reading.
He still struggles with askingand answering questions and sort
of back and forth conversation.
And just that's probably themost like visible trait that he
has or like the most obvious.
(34:53):
Thing that other people arenoticing right away.
And I, I think it's easy forpeople to misunderstand him or
get frustrated or just kind ofunderestimate him.
Mm-hmm.
because it seems like he'seither not paying attention or
he is not understanding, but he,he is, he's absorbing a lot,
even if he can't always expressit in the moment or in the way
(35:16):
that we expect.
And in general, just likeregulation, like we're still
figuring out what in the worldis going to and down kind of
thing of like, this is a lot ofenergy.
I don't know what to do with it.
(35:37):
And also you could probably usemore sleep and just.
Finding our flow.
Natalie (35:47):
Yeah, the emotional regulation piece is huge.
I would say that's easily ourbiggest struggle.
Cause it's not just the learninghow to regulate and what gets
you dysregulated, it's alsohelping someone understand why
they need to stay regulated.
It's hard to explain to a childwhy you can't react the way that
(36:08):
you're reacting.
Because I don't know that theysee the immediate consequence of
it.
Because they're really...
If you're in a household whereyou are patient and gentle and
kind and understanding, whatreally is the consequence, you
know?
Like, in our household, I wouldsay I have a pretty good
(36:31):
capacity for patience when itcomes to...
the dysregulation.
My husband is patient, but he, Ithink he sees it differently
where he sees it as indulgent toallow him to, to be continuously
dysregulated.
So that's a bit of a battle inour house, but it, it doesn't
really create any tension oranything.
(36:53):
But like really, what is the,what is the consequence if mom
is sitting there and saying,it's okay, let's talk about it.
Like, What's, you know, what areyou thinking?
What are you feeling?
Can you take a deep breath?
Cause that's my thing, that'swhat I do.
It's hard to explain to them,like, if you're out in public
(37:14):
and you act like that, there'sgonna be like a social
consequence.
And then what if they don'treally care about that?
Then really, what is themotivator?
To change that.
So that's a hard
Heidi (37:24):
one.
I think for our son at least,like, a lot of times his
dysregulation looks likesilliness and like, really
hyper, maybe kind ofmisbehaving, but in a very,
like, joyful way.
And it's, it's really hard forme, like, I find it stressful,
(37:48):
but also, like, I don't think hehas any real, Feeling of like, I
should pull back from this.
And like on the outside, a lotof people don't know that this
is, this is his version of ameltdown, even though it's not
yelling, it's not necessarilyhitting or even shutting down
(38:10):
totally.
It's different, but it's.
It's out of control and it's, itdoesn't feel good to be out of
control, but I think it feelsgood until that point and it's
really hard to pull back andyeah, I've kind of had to teach
(38:30):
myself like to, like, I thinkthere's a lot to be learned from
workshops and books and coachesand all of that, but also like
the scripts don't work for us atall, like of what I'm supposed
to say in those moments and so.
For me, it's really, like,trying to remind myself just
(38:52):
throw everything out and, like,forget what you think you're
supposed to do in this momentand then see if some fresh idea
comes up and works.
Natalie (39:04):
It's hard, too, because I remember, I feel like I read
this.
And, and an email maybe that yousent me where like, when you
have your own sensory issues andyour, your kid's sensory stuff
is activating your sensoryissues.
So you have to regulate yourselfso you can help the child
regulate.
(39:24):
That's incredibly difficult.
Heidi (39:27):
Incredibly difficult.
Yeah.
I mean, I wish I was a morepatient mom probably every day.
I wish I was, I mean, life wouldhonestly be simpler and better
for everyone if I had no needs,you know, if I didn't have needs
or wants, I can see how thatwould benefit other people.
Like, and it's complicated.
(39:50):
Like, I don't feel like I knowhow to keep my needs like
anywhere above the bottomusually, but I also recognize.
I'm a much better mom if I'm nottotally burnt out and not ready
(40:11):
to snap just at the sound oflike a cupboard or whatever.
Natalie (40:16):
Yeah, I think, I don't know, I think the only thing
that's, well, one of the thingsthat's helped me is just being
able to recognize what gets medysregulated and then accept,
trying to accept myself forthat.
I think there's a huge selfacceptance piece.
For a lot of us, where it'slike, for instance, it's summer
(40:38):
now, being hot makes me verydysregulated.
And I never really understoodthat, I just thought I became
really, you know how people sayhangry?
Like I get hangry from beinghot, like, like I don't want to
eat, I just mean, like I'mangry, like it makes me angry to
be hot.
That's dysregulation, that's,your body is dysregulated, it's
(41:02):
affecting your emotions.
So, like, how can we, first ofall, accept that it's okay that
it makes you dysregulated.
And then what can we do aboutthat?
And that's probably the harderpart, because then you get into
the whole battle over, like, theair conditioner.
So, but I guess that's just partof, like, being a human, it's a
(41:22):
constant, like, you know, tryingto figure out how to make things
work.
Yeah, it's, it's, it'sdefinitely a challenge.
Cause who helps us regulate?
Like we have to help ourselvesregulate and then we have to
help our kids regulate.
And that's a, you know, a themethat has come up with so many of
(41:44):
the moms that I've talked to.
So at least we're not alone inthat struggle, but it is
interesting that so many of usdeal with that because I think
if we were to look at eachother, just like at face value,
we wouldn't think of each otheras.
Struggles, you know, strugglingto regulate, but I think it's
because we mask so well, youknow, women are so good at
(42:08):
masking what's really going onand mothers too.
So it's like, I think westruggle with a lot of the same
things and we don't think totalk about it or like, why am I
losing my mind when my kidsacting like this?
You know what I mean?
So.
Heidi (42:27):
Yeah, I follow this OT I forget what her last name is,
Larissa something, and shespecializes in helping parents
regulate.
And she talks about like, one ofthe best things you can say to
yourself is like, it makessense.
Because so often what we'retelling ourselves is like, I
don't know why I'm so, I shouldbe able to handle this or
(42:50):
whatever.
And she's like, even just thefirst step of saying, it makes
sense that I'm dysregulatedbecause I'm hot or because it's
loud or because someone isrunning like past me over and
over and over, that woulddysregulate anyone.
So it's like, at least takes thepressure off a tiny bit.
Natalie (43:10):
And just like, yeah, it's like that.
It's also like just acceptingit, you know, don't, it doesn't
change who I am.
Like I'm not a bad person causeI'm getting dysregulated.
I'm not a bad mom.
I'm a human, like being a humanbeing, there's a lot going on
there and we get dysregulated byall kinds of things.
So yeah, something that was.
(43:35):
really interesting about likeyour biography.
Like when I read about you, whenwe connected was, you know, your
focus on making time forcreativity.
And we talked about this alittle bit before we started
recording.
It's like, I don't know if thisis just a human thing or if this
is like a an American thingwhere everything, especially
(43:59):
like creative stuff, like therehas to be almost a, Like a
monetary thing attached to it.
Like if you like to draw, well,you should sell your drawings.
If you like to sing, Oh, youshould try out for American
idol, whatever.
You should try to make money offof this thing that, that you're
kind of good at and that youenjoy doing.
And I think we forget or justdon't acknowledge that
(44:23):
everybody's creative and like,you don't really have to be like
quote unquote good at somethingbecause good is.
Subjective anyways.
Is it objective or subjective?
I always get that.
Subjective, yeah.
Subjective?
Yeah.
Okay.
I pointed that out for noreason, but I always get those
(44:47):
mixed up.
But yeah, it's subjectiveanyways.
It's, you know, it's, it's.
Up to it's like a matter ofopinion so Why do you feel like
it's important for people andespecially moms to carve out
space for creativity?
Heidi (45:05):
I I think i've been creative My whole life, although
I didn't particularly think ofmyself as a creative person.
And even when I was working increative jobs, like being a
writer and editor, I think wouldbe considered a creative job by
most people, but it didn'treally strike me that way.
But when I became a mom, I feltlike I really had to keep
(45:30):
choosing it over and overactively because it would have
been very easy to.
Be like, there is zero time andI don't have energy.
And what's the point?
Like this would be a very easything to cut, but I kept missing
it.
Like when I was not writing orif I wasn't painting or those
(45:51):
sounds, those are biggeractivities and I feel like you
need to include, but you know,for me personally, those were
practices I already had.
And when I.
didn't do them, I felt less thanmyself.
I felt grumpy.
I felt just sort of depressed.
And when I do them, when I makea tiny bit of time, even if it's
(46:15):
like to write a haiku, like ashort, short poem or doodle
something like there's somethingabout having a project that
feels like it's all mine.
I am the only one that gets tochoose what goes on the page or
what it looks like.
And it is like a place where Ican express ambiguities or
(46:38):
things that I maybe evenjournaling doesn't really feel
like it works for me sometimesbecause it's like too much to
connect sentences or whatever,but I can get a flow going with
something else.
It can feel like I've expressedsomething or I've gotten some
clarity with something in a waythat I can't really otherwise.
(47:01):
And when you were talking aboutlike, this kind of pressure to
monetize, I, I think that'sreally common.
Whether you have a creative jobor not.
And, and I think people arebeing creative, like way more
than they recognize or in alldifferent ways.
You know, maybe it's gardening,maybe it's choosing a like cool
(47:26):
combination of your likenecklace in your shirt or Making
like a little nice snack platefor yourself that feels artful
or purposeful or like takingphotos or there's just so many
different things that when wenotice like we're actually doing
(47:46):
them with a creative mindset itand that just means like we're
being open to the process, we'rebeing curious, we're
experimenting, playing, Then wecan enjoy the process instead of
worrying so much about theoutcome is and we can kind of
release desire on like, do Ineed to make money with this?
No, you don't need to make moneywith every single piece of those
(48:08):
activities.
Natalie (48:10):
Yeah, that's really true.
I'm thought about there are somany things that are creative,
like cooking can be reallycreative.
And yeah, there's all kinds ofthings.
And it's interesting becauselike, there are things that you
don't really, no one's going tosit there and say, well, you're
not good at that.
Like gardening.
I mean, who can qualify, youknow, like qualify that, but
(48:33):
you're really bad at plantingthose seeds.
You know what I mean?
But then there are things thatit's like, people do evaluate
like painting and writing allthat stuff.
But how do you, like, do youfeel like for you personally,
it's hard for you to find timefor creativity?
Since your job is creative, doesthat ever feel like there's a
(48:56):
weird overlap there?
Heidi (48:58):
Yes and no.
Like, it has been a while sinceI painted.
It's hard for me to find time tobe creative on something that's
not job related.
But I feel like after doing thisfor so long, I am better at
making the job stuff actuallycreative instead of, like,
(49:22):
grinding through it or feelinglike Because it's client work or
it's going to be sold in someway that that changes the
process or like requires me todo something else.
Like I kind of sneak in thecreative moments sometimes and
also like I, I think I'mbringing that mindset to, like,
(49:48):
the way I, things in thebathroom, you know, like,
arrange, like, the countertop,or like, a lot of times I think,
Exploring a new place could feelcreative or reading something
that doesn't have anything to dowith anything, you know, you
know, like if you don't knowanything about horses and you
(50:08):
pick up a horse magazine, likeit's going to spark new ideas
or.
Like a lot of times I think it'sreally helpful to like it could
be a cookbook or it could bewhatever, but like take
something that's alreadyproduced and think about what
you would change if it was yourproject.
And just that little likeprocess of thinking about it and
(50:30):
making a decision I think helpsyou kind of find your voice,
find your vision, and feel alittle like, yeah, maybe I have
something to say that can bereally empowering.
Yeah.
Natalie (50:44):
What are some of your suggestions on how moms can make
time in their daily lives forcreativity?
Heidi (50:53):
I think first thinking like it can be found like that
time can be found and it can betiny like five minutes is And
you know, I, I was writing that,the book about creativity and
motherhood during the pandemic,you know, an hour a week, and
(51:13):
that's not ideal.
It got done.
I wrote the book and I'vewritten other books, you know.
30 minutes a day or whatever.
And I understand the appeal oflike going away to a cabin or
moving on something at acreative retreat for a weekend
(51:36):
or whatever, but that's not mylife.
And it's probably not mostpeople's lives right now.
And.
Just being ready, like knowingwhat you want to work on, having
your materials ready, havingyour notebook ready, being
flexible with where and when andwhat it looks like when you
work.
For me, sometimes that means I'mwriting in my notebook while I
(51:57):
wait outside speech or OT, likethat's quiet time for me and no
one's going to interrupt me.
So that's really creative time,a lot of times.
And if you have something that,you know.
You need to think about and likedaydream about problem solve,
you know, do that on a walk orwhile you're doing the dishes
and it still counts.
I think sometimes too, we thinkI'm not being creative if I'm
(52:21):
not sitting at my desk, writingin my computer, or I'm not like
picking up the actual paintbrushor doing the craft itself.
But there's so much that's goingon as we process our experiences
and have like ideas come intoour minds.
Think about how we might trythose.
(52:42):
I think that's really valuabletime too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Natalie (52:46):
I think too, like while you were talking, I was thinking
about how kind of like I couldsee creative or like maybe the
creative process.
It could be a littleromanticized sometimes, like,
cause you're talking about goingaway to a retreat.
Like, have you ever seen thoseInstagram videos where it's like
someone, like, they light acandle and they have a cozy
blanket and the lighting'sperfect and there's this really
(53:08):
nice relaxing music and they sitdown and they start writing?
Like, it's not always gonna belike that.
Like sometimes, right now it'ssummer, I'm podcasting, I can
hear my son moving around in thehouse.
I'm in the back of my mind.
I'm like, when's he going tocome ask me for a snack?
You know, like, and I wouldconsider podcasting very
creative.
So it's like, it's not alwaysgoing to be like this romantic
(53:32):
thing.
I love those videos, but Iwouldn't say that it's
necessarily reality for a lot ofpeople
Heidi (53:39):
when they're being creative.
I mean, you definitely don'twant to like.
Think, well, if I can't do that,then I can't create something.
And part of why I feel reallypassionate about it, about
creativity for moms.
Isn't just, I think like firstand foremost, it's very
nourishing.
(54:00):
It's very grounding and it'sreally lovely to give yourself
that time.
But I also think mothers have somuch to share.
Like you have experiences no oneelse has.
You have your own wisdom.
And if you can.
Give yourself permission to takeyour own ideas seriously and
(54:20):
just like allow the idea thatsomewhere someone out there
wants to see your vision come tolife or to hear your ideas from
you like the world needs that Ithink they need way more and I
Want to encourage people to dothat Even if it is messy along
(54:43):
the way and doesn't look the waythey expected the creative
process to look.
Yeah
Natalie (54:48):
I think that like the presentation of that, it, you
know, hits different, likepleasure centers in the brain or
whatever.
Like we love those videos thatare like super polished and
beautiful.
It's, it's fun to watch.
It's a nice escape, but Iactually really love like videos
(55:08):
of.
Like you said, of moms justbeing messy, being themselves
because it's relatable.
Like I can look at a mom who,you know, there's a pile of
laundry on her couch or likethere's, you know, snack
wrappers here and there.
Like that's reality.
That's going to make herrelatable to me.
(55:29):
That's going to make me want toengage with her content or like
with what she's doing.
So it's like, yeah, I think it.
Both serve a purpose, you know,like the beautiful presentation,
but also just the very real, Imean, cause you need energy for
creativity, but if you'respending your create, you know,
(55:51):
your energy on trying to make itlook perfect, then you don't
have that energy.
So.
Heidi (55:56):
For sure.
And it, it zaps your energy ifyou are telling yourself you're
doing it wrong, like the wholetime you're trying to be
creative.
So the more you can just say,this is how I do it right now,
maybe like in a year or 10years, I will light a candle and
(56:17):
have my own desk in the studioor whatever.
But for now, this is what itlooks like for me.
I think.
That's gonna be a moresatisfying process for sure.
Yeah.
Natalie (56:29):
So where can people find like, what are you up to
right now?
I know you mentioned yourcreativity and motherhood book.
Is that out yet?
Heidi (56:38):
Or no, it's in submission.
It's being submitted topublishers.
So you know, hopefully in a yearor two, publishing moves really
slowly.
Hopefully it will be out.
But I do have a PDF.
I'll send you the link so youcan share it with people.
It's called seven days ofinspiration.
And it's a really simple guide.
(57:00):
Very easy.
In the moment quick things youcan do to feel a little more
creative and in touch with thatside of yourself And you can
always find me athelloheidiefiedler.
com Where I'm sharinginspiration and encouragement
with all the creative moms outthere
Natalie (57:19):
Cool, and are you on like Instagram, right?
Heidi (57:23):
I'm on Instagram at Heidi Fiedler and I just started a sub
stack called Mothers Who Makeand I'm interviewing 100
creative mothers about theirexperience.
It's really cool.
I feel like it's a newsletterbut I'm treating it as like a
museum for Celebrating mothersand all the really cool work
(57:45):
that they're doing.
Natalie (57:46):
That is really cool.
I have to check that out.
How do you, is that like a substack, like an app or what is
that
Heidi (57:52):
exactly?
I think you can use, you canlike read it on your browser.
And I think as like a reader,it, it almost feels like a
newsletter, like it's going tocome to your inbox, but there is
an app and the app is kind ofnice.
As like an alternative to likeif you're standing in in line
and you don't want to look atInstagram You can open the sub
(58:13):
stack app and like readNewsletters all in one place and
it's a little more like literaryI guess I'm enjoying it so far.
It's very new for me.
I'm like still learning what itall means and how to navigate
Natalie (58:28):
it.
Okay So someone could go onthere and find you on there and
Heidi (58:33):
then yeah, search mothers who make on sub stack.
Or if you go to hello, HeidiFiedler.
com, there's a link at thebottom to sign up for the sub
stack.
Okay.
Well, awesome.
Natalie (58:43):
Well, thank you so much for coming on and chatting with
me today.
Really loved getting to knowmore about you.
You too.
Thank you, Natalie.
Thank you so much for joining mefor this week's episode.
If you'd like to get in contactwith me, you can find me on
Instagram at rad mom radio.
And you can also send me anemail.
My email address is radmomradioat gmail.
(59:05):
com.
Have a great week and I'll talkto you soon.
Bye.
Hello and welcome to Rad Mom Radio, a podcast
dedicated to moms and all theirfavorite topics.
My name's Natalie and I'm yourhost.
(00:23):
Hello and welcome back toRadMomRadio.
Thank you for joining me thisweek for another episode.
It is officially September, soit's almost fall.
This is Riley's birthday month,which was funny because on
September 1st, I told him, thisis your birthday month, and he
said, it's mine.
(00:44):
Birthday month like it was areally unusual thing.
It was a really foreign conceptto him So this is the month that
we kind of start to think abouthow to celebrate him and it's
interesting how that changesevery year He actually just told
me today that he wants anelectric guitar.
I think it's funny like being aparent You know, you actually
(01:07):
consider getting your kidsthings like that like getting an
eight year old an electricguitar Like it's somewhere in my
brain.
I know that that's Kind ofridiculous, but I still want to
get it for him and I might whoknows We'll see you could get a
kid's electric guitar.
It's not super expensive, butwould he use it?
I don't know.
(01:28):
Would it be allowed?
Absolutely.
So I don't know, we'll see.
But this week I have a reallygood episode to share with you.
My guest is Heidi Fiedler.
And Heidi is an author.
And Heidi is kind of like acreativity coach.
So she really enjoys helpingmoms.
(01:50):
find time in their lives forcreativity and helping them to
find little things that they cando in their lives that are
creative, that they really enjoyjust because as moms, you know,
we do focus so much on ourchildren and on everything that
has to do with our kids.
And it really can be so good foryour mental health to find time
(02:14):
to do things that help youexpress your creativity.
So she spends a lot of timedoing that and she's very
passionate about that.
Heidi also has an autistic childso we talked a lot about that.
The struggles in getting adiagnosis and getting services.
And how different, you know,autistic people are, like every
(02:36):
autistic person is a uniqueindividual and how do you as a
parent honor who your child is?
And so we talked a lot aboutthat, about celebrating your
children, accepting them for whothey are.
And we also talked a lot aboutcreativity.
What does it mean to becreative?
What are some of the hang upsthat people come across when
they want to be creative?
(02:58):
You know, finding time forcreativity.
And then.
Something that happens, it'sinteresting, I don't know if
this happens in other countries,but definitely in America it
seems like we're always tryingto figure out how to monetize
everything.
You know, everything has toproduce something instead of
just doing something because Ithelps you express yourself, or
(03:20):
it's just good for your soul, oryour mind, or your heart.
So, it was really fun to talk toHeidi.
She's such a lovely, sweet lady,and I really enjoyed my time
with her.
You can learn more about Heidiby going to her website.
It's HelloHeidiFiedler.
com and her last name is spelledF I E D L E R.
(03:42):
You can also find her onInstagram.
And Substack, which we talkedabout.
But I still haven't checked itout, so I don't really know how
all of that works, but yeahdefinitely check her out.
She has a really cool website,lots of resources.
One that we talked about is afree guide, it's called 7 Days
of Inspiration, you can findthat on her website.
(04:05):
But yeah, I really enjoyed thisconversation with Heidi.
And I hope that you do too.
This is my interview with HeidiFiedler.
Hi, Heidi.
Welcome to rad mom radio.
Thanks, Natalie.
(04:26):
It's so good to be here.
Yeah.
Thank you for joining me today.
I didn't get a chance to ask youthis where, like what part of
the world
Heidi (04:33):
are you in?
I'm outside of Boston.
We're about an hour West ofBoston in Massachusetts.
Natalie (04:39):
Cool.
Okay.
So what are your guys summerslike?
Because we're like officially insummer
Heidi (04:43):
right now.
We are officially in summer, andthis is my first summer with a
school aged child, which made itfeel a little more like,
definitive, like there's a clearbeginning, a clear end to
summer.
And for us, our son is going tobe home with us.
It's all summer and he will goto summer school, I think like
(05:07):
five weeks in the middle ofsummer.
It's a very like specific chunkof time.
It's maybe like three hours aday, three days a week for five
weeks.
So we also have a nanny comingin the afternoons and besides
that we, we just decided notravel, no, like we couldn't
(05:28):
really make any camps work oranything like that.
So.
It feels very, it still feelskind of choppy to me, but we're
just trying to settle in, findour flow.
Yeah.
Natalie (05:39):
You guys have one son, and he's six years old.
Do you guys have other kids?
Heidi (05:46):
No, he's our only child.
Okay.
And we adopted him after areally long time of trying to,
adopt.
We originally lived inCalifornia and started the
process there and then we had tostop when we moved to
Massachusetts and start again.
And it's just a long process foreveryone.
So yeah, he's our only child andhe is six and he really had a
(06:09):
great school year.
But kindergarten was like ahuge, huge change for him.
And so we've all been kind oftrying to catch our breath a
little bit.
Natalie (06:19):
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
It's a huge like adjustment, allthe transitions.
Heidi (06:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Our son he's autistic and hestarted on He started with the
six hour a day schedule, and weended up shifting to the three
hour a day schedule after acouple months, and then we would
do like, OT and speech and stuffin the afternoon, and it still
(06:46):
felt like a lot.
It never felt like he was like,relaxed, and like, everything
was like, manageable, but he'sgonna do the six hour schedule
next year, and I'm...
We've been building up andhopefully he will have the
stamina for it.
Natalie (07:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
How old was he when you guysadopted him?
Heidi (07:07):
He was a baby.
He was just a couple days old.
Oh, wow.
That's
Natalie (07:11):
cool.
So...
We'll get into like all of your,you know, like talking about
being a mom and your career andeverything But before that I'm a
big fan of icebreaker questionsjust because I like to know
random things about people I dotry to pick ones that kind of
make sense for the person sobecause you work in you know,
(07:34):
writing and publishing andyou're an author, your questions
are book related.
So my first one was like, whatis your favorite book from your
childhood?
Because I know like there arecertain books that are just like
stamps on our childhood that weremember the cover, we remember
(07:54):
the story.
So what's that one
Heidi (07:56):
for you?
Yeah, I that's such a greatquestion because I think there's
different books like atdifferent stages for me but one
that like I had kind offorgotten and then came back to
when I was like I probably waslooking for something for my
son, but I feel like I Istumbled on my old copy of
(08:18):
Blueberries for Sal, which isthis book that takes place in
Maine.
And I think it was, I don'tthink it was a new book when I
read it, but it has like a veryvintage feel to it.
And there's just something aboutlike, when I open those pages
again, I'm like, I have like afeeling of being four years old.
And like, I should get that bookout again now.
(08:40):
Cause my son is a loose tooth.
I just remember like, but it.
It has a girl whose tooth isloose and she's like on this
little dingy boat with her dadand they're like, I think
they're searching for clams ormussels or something, but it
feels like very lived in.
I must have read that book somany times and been like, I
don't know anything about thisworld and it's so interesting to
(09:04):
me.
Yeah,
Natalie (09:05):
I think, you know how like, as adults we have like
comfort shows and comfortmovies, I think kids probably
are the same way with books,like they have like books that
they just, that we just don'texpect, there's little things
there that, you know, that bringcomfort and all that stuff.
Heidi (09:25):
For sure.
Yeah.
Natalie (09:26):
Yeah.
And then my other question was,because there's There's
different people, right?
Like there's people who, as faras readers go, you know people
who keep every book They have amillion books on their bookshelf
and then there are people likethey read the book and then they
like give it away They don'twant to keep it So this could be
(09:46):
an easy question or a hard oneBut if you could only keep three
books on your bookshelf, likeonly three books that you could
keep with you forever What wouldthey be and why?
Heidi (09:57):
Oh, that's a really, yeah, that is a hard one.
The first book that came to mindis This Proud Heart, which is a
maybe like 19, 1920s book?
I'm not sure.
Maybe a little, a little less, Imean 1940s.
But it, it's a book that mygrandmother read, my mom read,
and I read.
And we all read it many times.
(10:19):
And that book feels just like athing that needs to be a part of
our family.
And.
Like, I mean, most of the booksthat are on my shelf now are
children's books, because that'swhat I do for work, and it's,
like, there's a good excuse forkeeping those.
But I think some of the books,like, if I had to choose three,
(10:41):
it would be, like, books that Igrew up reading and felt really,
like formative.
Maybe, like, The Witches byRoald Dahl.
I really like that book.
And there's another book Now I'mblanking on the, the author's
name, but it's a, it's a journalthat this woman wrote.
And it's just like her kind of,it's nonfiction.
(11:03):
It's her personal experiencetrying to notice what makes her
happy and then do more of whatmakes her happy.
And that's an older book toothat it was just like one of the
first books that I had read thatkind of had that perspective.
Right.
Really like.
Spent a lot of time thinkingabout it, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
(11:23):
I
Natalie (11:24):
hadn't thought about picking ones that were
formative, but that makes a lotof sense.
Kind of like books that areattached to some kind of growth,
or like, new understanding.
Heidi (11:36):
Yeah.
Yeah, my husband has a giant,like, edition of Susan Cooper's
books, the little middle gradenovels, and he read those when
he was, like, ten, and he justre reads those whenever he...
Whenever he's in doubt, he islike, reading those again, and
it's a total comfort read, andjust very formative, but also
(11:58):
like, I know exactly what I'mgonna get when I open this book.
Natalie (12:03):
There's something about knowing what to expect that's
nice, for sure.
So, tell us about you, like, I'mreally interested in hearing
about what you do for work, andyour family, and all that stuff.
Heidi (12:19):
Yeah so I'm a writer and an editor and I tend to focus on
children's books.
I specialize in picture booksand chapter books and non
fiction for kids, and then I'malso working on my own book
about creativity and motherhoodwhich is my first book that I've
written for grown ups.
I haven't figured out a betterway to say that yet, but it's
(12:41):
for grown ups, and I usuallyhave about, like, maybe two
hours a day to work if thingsare going according to plan.
And I've, I worked in house fora long time at several different
publishers, and then I wentfreelance when we moved out to
Massachusetts maybe eight yearsago.
So, that was like a really bigshift for me, and...
(13:05):
I wasn't sure how much work Icould do once we had kids and
that has kind of evolved aswe've seen, like, what our son
needs and what we can handle aspeople.
You have to keep sustaining andgoing through things and, you
know, of course the pandemic waslike its own stress test on all
(13:26):
of that.
Yeah.
Natalie (13:29):
What, like, how did you get into writing?
Heidi (13:34):
I was probably one of those people that like people
always saying, Oh, you should dothis or you should think about
doing this.
And I kind of was like not keenon the idea of working in
publishing because I felt like.
I already love books.
Like, why would I want to ruinthat?
Or like, maybe that would kindof make them not fun to me.
(13:57):
Which I don't think was theworst instinct in the world, but
also like, I am drawn to thisand I love book people.
I like talking about books withother book people.
And I like the process ofcreating something
collaboratively.
And I really like thedevelopmental stage.
So like coming up with the ideaand brainstorming and.
(14:19):
Bringing something out ofnothing into being is really
interesting to me.
What are you reading right
Natalie (14:26):
now?
Heidi (14:28):
I just finished Unicorn Space by Eve Rodsky, which is
about like creating space forcreativity in your life.
And then I'm reading anotherbook, actually I have my pile
right here Drawing, Drawing YourOwn Path, which is like for
visual artists like sketchingand different techniques, but
(14:50):
it's written by a a meditationteacher.
So it has a very specific angleto it.
Those are both work related.
I, I'm like, I do a lot ofreading for work and then I try
to have like a clear not workbook too but I haven't started a
new not work book yet.
Natalie (15:09):
Yeah I didn't think about that.
Does your reading for work causeyou to have like burnout on
reading for fun?
Heidi (15:19):
Not burnout like I always want to read more but there's
just a limit to how much youknow quiet time I can craft out
of any day so it's I just I'malways like choosing between do
I want to be.
Reading something that, youknow, would be productive or
inspiring or helpful.
Or do I want to read somethingthat's like really truly feels
(15:41):
like an escape and, you know, Idon't have to think about work.
Natalie (15:48):
I have noticed like talking about books and
recommending books has becomelike it's a little I guess like
this little subsection or likethis little pocket on social
media where people talk about,you know, books.
Do you follow any of that?
Heidi (16:05):
Totally, yeah.
I'm on Instagram and Substackand there's a lot of, there's
Bookstagram which is like thebook side of Instagram and then
Substack is basically like abunch of writers talking to
other writers right now.
There's, there's probably somenon writers there but it's a lot
of writers.
And I used to like Back in theday like maybe 20 years ago work
(16:26):
in a bookstore, and you knowthat was our job was like
sharing your recommendations andbeing Excited about a book and
like getting someone else toread it And it's funny to be
kind of on the other side of itnow because I I can't keep up
with all the books that are outthere by any means so I like
hearing those recommendationsand always my To be read pile is
(16:49):
bigger than the time available.
Yeah,
Natalie (16:55):
there's this.
I've never experienced thisbefore, but like, you know, the,
the term FOMO, like fear ofmissing out, but having like
book FOMO for this book calledthe fourth wing that everyone's
talking about, I guess it's somekind of like fantasy book, which
is funny because I don't evenread fantasy, but people are
(17:16):
talking about it so much.
Heidi (17:17):
I think I might know what you're talking about because
when they talk about it, they'relike, you must.
Yeah.
Natalie (17:22):
Well, you can't even get it right now.
Like it's in my cart on Amazonand it's like, One to two months
of a wait, so it's so popularthat it's like You probably have
to like get someone to lend youtheir copy, but I've never had
like that kind of feeling beforelike I just want to read this
book so bad because everyone'stalking about it, you know what
(17:45):
I mean?
So that's like a book that I'mreally wanting to read right now
just because like, I feel likeI'm missing out on something.
Everyone's talking about howgreat it is and it's like, okay,
well, you know.
Now I want to read it,
Heidi (18:01):
but it's nice to know what everyone is talking about.
I don't think it even existsnow.
E.
W.
Entertainment Weekly, I think,went under, but for a long time
I subscribed to EntertainmentWeekly just because I kind of
like knowing what everyone elseis talking about and like being
able to connect about thosethings.
Yeah, yeah.
Natalie (18:22):
But yeah, it's, it's kind of fun to see like people
so into reading.
For
Heidi (18:28):
sure.
Yes.
Yeah, there's lots, there'salways talk about is publishing
dead or are print books dead?
Or, you know, people don't readbooks the way they used to or
whatever.
But there is a vibrant readingcommunity out there and I, I've
never had enough time to readand I think most of the people
in those communities feel likethey don't have enough time to
(18:50):
read either.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Natalie (18:52):
All the things you'd want to read, for sure.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So kind of like switching overinto like the, the mom part of
your life.
So you adopted your son when hewas a baby and he is diagnosed
with autism?
Heidi (19:09):
Yeah, he was diagnosed when he was four, I think.
And that was like a, atelehealth diagnosis because
that was during the pandemic.
And that was, I guess, two yearsago.
So we've had a little time tolearn about it and kind of find
some support.
(19:30):
It feels like, at least for us,when we were getting the
diagnosis, like they, they giveyou like a packet and then sort
of just send you on your way.
And the packet was.
really outdated.
It just felt like what they weretelling us to do was like not
(19:52):
only onerous for us, like itsounded overwhelming, but it was
not going to be helpful or youcould even be harmful for our
son.
And it took a lot of work andjust, I guess, patients or like
persistence to keep reading,taking workshops, you know,
(20:14):
talking to other people.
Just to get set up with theclinic, you know, getting speech
and OT and all of that stuff.
And I feel like we're in an okayplace right now.
We moved to this house thatwe're in right now about a year
ago because we had a really badexperience with the school
(20:37):
district before when our son wasstill in preschool.
And we wanted to be in a schooldistrict that really Could offer
a lot of support and we've beenamazed and so grateful for
everyone at this school So thathas been a huge change and a
really positive change for us
Natalie (20:57):
What was it that prompted you guys to look into a
diagnosis?
Heidi (21:02):
Yeah, like I said, it was pretty deep in the pandemic so I
think for us we we might nothave done anything right away
because He's our only child.
We didn't really have anythingto compare it to, and it was
just the two of us, like, somany kids were struggling and
having, you know, communicationissues or behavior issues or
(21:25):
whatever, because They're stuckat home with two people forever,
and like, that's not really howit's supposed to be.
So, it was very easy to be like,we don't know if this is because
you're three, or because you'reliving in a pandemic, or because
this is just who you are, what,you know, and our son had a lot
of A lot of medical issues, alot of physical medical issues
(21:48):
that we had navigated throughthe, like, that physical side of
the medical system.
He had surgery when he was onefor some kidney issues and then
had a long history of GI issues.
And it was through the GI issuesthat they said it would make
sense to get him evaluated.
There's a high correlation, I'msure you know, between.
(22:11):
and autistic people.
So they were really the onesthat referred us and said, think
about this.
And now that I know more aboutit, like I can see, yeah, that
makes a lot of sense, but at thetime it was sort of like, okay,
maybe, I don't know.
And actually as, as we learnedmore and like.
(22:32):
just navigated this world more.
My husband realized, Oh, I'mautistic too.
Coincidentally, not because hehas any biological connection,
but it just never was on hisradar either.
And as he read more and more, hewas like, this is definitely me.
And that's been reallyinteresting to like, and really
helpful to be like here as asuccessful, full grown adult who
(22:57):
is, yes, his share of strugglesfor sure.
But like, This is one side ofthe spectrum.
There's another side.
Everyone is going to presentdifferently and No, as you know,
like if you know one autisticperson, you only know one
autistic person.
It just means so many differentthings.
So Having him as sort of like acounterbalance has been really
(23:19):
great
Natalie (23:20):
Did he end up getting an evaluation also?
Heidi (23:24):
He hasn't although he's thought about it It's just very
challenging as an adult try andget that evaluation there's a
huge weight limit for kids andthey're Working hard to
prioritize kids that don't haveany diagnosis, at least in
Massachusetts, it's, it can be aseveral year wait limit or wait
(23:44):
list for your first diagnosis.
So if there's anything else thatyou might want to get diagnosed
where they really try and like.
Put you lower on the queue.
And if you're an adult, it'slike, good luck,
Natalie (23:56):
right?
It's crazy.
My son, Riley, his, his waittime.
Well, it was about six months.
And when I tell people thatthey're like, Oh, wow.
Like, so six months is already along time.
But the fact that you could haveto wait at least a year for a
child is just crazy becausethat's the only way they get any
(24:21):
kind of support is with adiagnosis.
Heidi (24:24):
So, yeah, that was the thing I didn't understand.
And, you know, we, we reallywent through like that whole up
and down rollercoaster of like,do we want to do this?
Do we want this label?
What does the label mean?
And a lot of that was reallybased on outdated understanding
of what it meant, but also notunderstanding that you need that
(24:46):
diagnosis to get any servicesand really like.
Peeve the way for the nextseveral years.
Natalie (24:55):
Yeah.
Unfortunately, it's like thatwith anything in mental health
where it's like, the diagnosisis like the key that unlocks.
Heidi (25:06):
I was going to add that my friend, she has an autistic
child and she has some otherkids with other diagnoses.
And we, we were always goingback and forth about like, what
does this mean?
And like, we have to keepreminding ourselves at least,
like.
It is a label to get theservices and it's not going to
explain everything.
(25:26):
It's not going to make perfectsense.
It's not a coherent theory.
Totally like, you know, they'vehad this diagnosis for what?
Like 50 years, maybe like it'sstill very new for everyone.
We're all still learning and.
There's just no perfect, like,match between a person and these
(25:50):
bullet points in the DSL.
Natalie (25:53):
And I think also, like, the way that you approach an
evaluation is, like, there's afilter, like, on that.
You know, every individual,like, for instance, I have a
tendency to minimize things thatI experience.
So if I go and take a testabout, you know, like ADHD or
(26:14):
OCD or something like that, I'mgoing to minimize my experience
because that's part of my, Idon't want to say personality,
it's part of my, my upbringingwas always to minimize what I'm
going through.
So if I'm going to answer aquestion, I'm going to be like,
well, it's not all the time.
(26:34):
So it's not that bad.
So I guess I don't have that.
And then that's not the way thecriteria are written.
They're not written for thatkind of filtered expression or
whatever.
They're written concretely.
So I think that it can be veryhard for some people to get an
appropriate diagnosis becausejust because of their own filter
(26:57):
on things, or maybe they're notthat self aware or maybe they
think everyone does that thing.
So it's not a big deal.
So it's just, It's almost likeyou would need to be prepped for
the evaluation, you know, liketaught how to take an
evaluation.
Heidi (27:15):
I totally know what you mean.
And I think one of my hangups isfeeling like what's the point if
we don't know what to do aboutit afterwards?
Like if there's nothing thatwill help or what, what is the
plan afterwards?
And at least on our end, likethat has been something I've,
I've shifted my view on.
(27:35):
And I think there is a lot thatcomes just having.
Some mental model of what'sgoing on and why, like, maybe
you don't understand in themoment or big picture, there's a
lot of mystery still, but notfeeling like we did something
wrong or we're not, we're notlike missing a memo that every
(27:57):
other parent got or just feelinglike they're also like when
you're looking at a Autisticadults, like there is this other
path forward that we can learnfrom and if we didn't know if we
didn't have this label or wehadn't gone through the
evaluation, we would not havelearned about that world and
(28:21):
engage with the disabilitycommunity and just, it really
has shifted so much.
Even if, I don't know if speechand OT are that helpful.
I think they are, but I, I, Imean, also I think time is
helpful too.
Natalie (28:40):
Absolutely.
Time is super helpful.
I think that that's somethingthat's hard to comprehend as a
parent.
Like when you have a smallchild, there's this like, All of
a sudden it's like this weirdcap on your child, like this,
well, what are they gonna beable to do, what are they not
gonna be able to do, instead ofalways thinking of them as
(29:00):
someone who could do whateverthey want.
Like they could do this, theycould do that, it's almost like
all of a sudden there's thislike ceiling on them and their
potential.
But time does wonders.
Like, that's the thing too, is Ithink we forget that they,
they're still gonna develop.
Like, it is a developmentaldisability, but it doesn't mean
(29:22):
that they stop developing.
It just means they develop at adifferent rate.
And I personally believe, justbased on what I've observed in
my son, is that I think someautistic people are not burdened
by the expectations of others.
(29:43):
Some are, but like he's not,like he really doesn't care if
you think he should be doingthis, this or that, so he's
going to do it when he wants to.
And so it's confusing because itlooks like maybe he can't or
doesn't know how to, but it'sreally not that, it's just that
he personally, because of hisautism, is not caught up on what
(30:05):
you think he should be doing,you know what I mean?
He's going to do it when hefeels like it, it's always on
his own timeline.
Heidi (30:13):
So.
If my son is teaching me alesson, like in some kind of
we're aligned, we're puttogether by the universe kind of
way, it's like, you need tobreak some rules and like the
rules don't matter really, youknow, which is, I don't think of
(30:34):
myself as a huge rule follower.
I don't think that that wereparticularly like rule heavy
family, but I mean.
You know, he's, he's testing allof that and not in a, not in a
willful way, not in a liketrying to push us past our
(30:54):
boundaries or something.
Although it sometimes feels likethat, but more in a, like, this
is just coming natural to me.
Like I show up in the world.
I do not care what the rulesare.
And why would I like, we all getto be ourselves.
We all can do things in our ownway, unapologetically, and just
(31:18):
like, forget all those shouldsand things that were constantly.
Hold as we grow up most of thetime.
And then I w I would love to bea person who could let a lot
more of that go.
It's definitely a work inprogress.
Yeah,
Natalie (31:34):
definitely.
That's a hard one.
I always admire that when hejust is himself.
I'm like, wow.
I feel like you've conqueredsomething at eight that.
You know, 30 years plus I stillhaven't, you know,
Heidi (31:48):
conquered that, but I hope that us protecting that for
them is I mean, I think that isvaluable.
And even if we are strugglingwith that ourselves, we are
doing our best to let them staywho they are.
And I do think if they, at leastour son, if he was in a
different home, if we weredifferent people, you know, He
(32:11):
could have really shut down andhe could have really had a very
different six years of feelinglike he was just a bad kid in
the wrong place and, you know, Idon't want that for him.
Natalie (32:27):
It's kind of interesting how things work out
that way.
Like when you're thinking aboutkind of him ending up where he
needed to be, you know, so thathe can be himself.
That's pretty cool.
When you think about it, like,does your, cause you said your
husband, you know.
Recognizes his own autistictraits.
(32:47):
Do you think that that made iteasier for him to kind of relate
to your son?
Heidi (32:52):
Probably somewhat.
They are very different.
But I think it's honestly, Ithink it's more that it has
softened.
He's my husband's view ofhimself.
It's given him a little morecompassion for what he's gone
through and yeah, why he feelsdifferent and those kinds of
things.
(33:13):
But I also think.
He sees the value of like, if wecan get to the other side of
childhood and he doesn't feel,if our son doesn't feel excluded
or less than or like he didsomething wrong or like, just if
we can protect some of that forhim, we will have Broken a
(33:34):
cycle, even though it wasn'tthis biological thing to, to
change what my husbandexperienced as a child and
through adulthood to make thateasier for our son, I think he
feels really passionate aboutthat and, you know, to help him
be his own person and protectthat.
Yeah.
(33:54):
That's
Natalie (33:54):
awesome.
What specifically would you say?
Cause you know, we talked abouthow every autistic person is
different.
What would you say your son's?
biggest challenges are when itcomes to being autistic.
Heidi (34:10):
It's hard to sort out like what is autistic or not, of
course.
But he, he does havecommunication issues.
He doesn't use a device, buthe's a distalt language
processor.
He has used scripts a lot.
He's really come a long waysand.
Sometimes I think, oh, someonemight not notice, but actually
(34:32):
they would notice probablypretty quickly.
It's just that I'm used to likea lot of pulling in the gaps and
mind reading.
He still struggles with askingand answering questions and sort
of back and forth conversation.
And just that's probably themost like visible trait that he
has or like the most obvious.
(34:53):
Thing that other people arenoticing right away.
And I, I think it's easy forpeople to misunderstand him or
get frustrated or just kind ofunderestimate him.
Mm-hmm.
because it seems like he'seither not paying attention or
he is not understanding, but he,he is, he's absorbing a lot,
even if he can't always expressit in the moment or in the way
(35:16):
that we expect.
And in general, just likeregulation, like we're still
figuring out what in the worldis going to and down kind of
thing of like, this is a lot ofenergy.
I don't know what to do with it.
(35:37):
And also you could probably usemore sleep and just.
Finding our flow.
Natalie (35:47):
Yeah, the emotional regulation piece is huge.
I would say that's easily ourbiggest struggle.
Cause it's not just the learninghow to regulate and what gets
you dysregulated, it's alsohelping someone understand why
they need to stay regulated.
It's hard to explain to a childwhy you can't react the way that
(36:08):
you're reacting.
Because I don't know that theysee the immediate consequence of
it.
Because they're really...
If you're in a household whereyou are patient and gentle and
kind and understanding, whatreally is the consequence, you
know?
Like, in our household, I wouldsay I have a pretty good
(36:31):
capacity for patience when itcomes to...
the dysregulation.
My husband is patient, but he, Ithink he sees it differently
where he sees it as indulgent toallow him to, to be continuously
dysregulated.
So that's a bit of a battle inour house, but it, it doesn't
really create any tension oranything.
(36:53):
But like really, what is the,what is the consequence if mom
is sitting there and saying,it's okay, let's talk about it.
Like, What's, you know, what areyou thinking?
What are you feeling?
Can you take a deep breath?
Cause that's my thing, that'swhat I do.
It's hard to explain to them,like, if you're out in public
(37:14):
and you act like that, there'sgonna be like a social
consequence.
And then what if they don'treally care about that?
Then really, what is themotivator?
To change that.
So that's a hard
Heidi (37:24):
one.
I think for our son at least,like, a lot of times his
dysregulation looks likesilliness and like, really
hyper, maybe kind ofmisbehaving, but in a very,
like, joyful way.
And it's, it's really hard forme, like, I find it stressful,
(37:48):
but also, like, I don't think hehas any real, Feeling of like, I
should pull back from this.
And like on the outside, a lotof people don't know that this
is, this is his version of ameltdown, even though it's not
yelling, it's not necessarilyhitting or even shutting down
(38:10):
totally.
It's different, but it's.
It's out of control and it's, itdoesn't feel good to be out of
control, but I think it feelsgood until that point and it's
really hard to pull back andyeah, I've kind of had to teach
(38:30):
myself like to, like, I thinkthere's a lot to be learned from
workshops and books and coachesand all of that, but also like
the scripts don't work for us atall, like of what I'm supposed
to say in those moments and so.
For me, it's really, like,trying to remind myself just
(38:52):
throw everything out and, like,forget what you think you're
supposed to do in this momentand then see if some fresh idea
comes up and works.
Natalie (39:04):
It's hard, too, because I remember, I feel like I read
this.
And, and an email maybe that yousent me where like, when you
have your own sensory issues andyour, your kid's sensory stuff
is activating your sensoryissues.
So you have to regulate yourselfso you can help the child
regulate.
(39:24):
That's incredibly difficult.
Heidi (39:27):
Incredibly difficult.
Yeah.
I mean, I wish I was a morepatient mom probably every day.
I wish I was, I mean, life wouldhonestly be simpler and better
for everyone if I had no needs,you know, if I didn't have needs
or wants, I can see how thatwould benefit other people.
Like, and it's complicated.
(39:50):
Like, I don't feel like I knowhow to keep my needs like
anywhere above the bottomusually, but I also recognize.
I'm a much better mom if I'm nottotally burnt out and not ready
(40:11):
to snap just at the sound oflike a cupboard or whatever.
Natalie (40:16):
Yeah, I think, I don't know, I think the only thing
that's, well, one of the thingsthat's helped me is just being
able to recognize what gets medysregulated and then accept,
trying to accept myself forthat.
I think there's a huge selfacceptance piece.
For a lot of us, where it'slike, for instance, it's summer
(40:38):
now, being hot makes me verydysregulated.
And I never really understoodthat, I just thought I became
really, you know how people sayhangry?
Like I get hangry from beinghot, like, like I don't want to
eat, I just mean, like I'mangry, like it makes me angry to
be hot.
That's dysregulation, that's,your body is dysregulated, it's
(41:02):
affecting your emotions.
So, like, how can we, first ofall, accept that it's okay that
it makes you dysregulated.
And then what can we do aboutthat?
And that's probably the harderpart, because then you get into
the whole battle over, like, theair conditioner.
So, but I guess that's just partof, like, being a human, it's a
(41:22):
constant, like, you know, tryingto figure out how to make things
work.
Yeah, it's, it's, it'sdefinitely a challenge.
Cause who helps us regulate?
Like we have to help ourselvesregulate and then we have to
help our kids regulate.
And that's a, you know, a themethat has come up with so many of
(41:44):
the moms that I've talked to.
So at least we're not alone inthat struggle, but it is
interesting that so many of usdeal with that because I think
if we were to look at eachother, just like at face value,
we wouldn't think of each otheras.
Struggles, you know, strugglingto regulate, but I think it's
because we mask so well, youknow, women are so good at
(42:08):
masking what's really going onand mothers too.
So it's like, I think westruggle with a lot of the same
things and we don't think totalk about it or like, why am I
losing my mind when my kidsacting like this?
You know what I mean?
So.
Heidi (42:27):
Yeah, I follow this OT I forget what her last name is,
Larissa something, and shespecializes in helping parents
regulate.
And she talks about like, one ofthe best things you can say to
yourself is like, it makessense.
Because so often what we'retelling ourselves is like, I
don't know why I'm so, I shouldbe able to handle this or
(42:50):
whatever.
And she's like, even just thefirst step of saying, it makes
sense that I'm dysregulatedbecause I'm hot or because it's
loud or because someone isrunning like past me over and
over and over, that woulddysregulate anyone.
So it's like, at least takes thepressure off a tiny bit.
Natalie (43:10):
And just like, yeah, it's like that.
It's also like just acceptingit, you know, don't, it doesn't
change who I am.
Like I'm not a bad person causeI'm getting dysregulated.
I'm not a bad mom.
I'm a human, like being a humanbeing, there's a lot going on
there and we get dysregulated byall kinds of things.
So yeah, something that was.
(43:35):
really interesting about likeyour biography.
Like when I read about you, whenwe connected was, you know, your
focus on making time forcreativity.
And we talked about this alittle bit before we started
recording.
It's like, I don't know if thisis just a human thing or if this
is like a an American thingwhere everything, especially
(43:59):
like creative stuff, like therehas to be almost a, Like a
monetary thing attached to it.
Like if you like to draw, well,you should sell your drawings.
If you like to sing, Oh, youshould try out for American
idol, whatever.
You should try to make money offof this thing that, that you're
kind of good at and that youenjoy doing.
And I think we forget or justdon't acknowledge that
(44:23):
everybody's creative and like,you don't really have to be like
quote unquote good at somethingbecause good is.
Subjective anyways.
Is it objective or subjective?
I always get that.
Subjective, yeah.
Subjective?
Yeah.
Okay.
I pointed that out for noreason, but I always get those
(44:47):
mixed up.
But yeah, it's subjectiveanyways.
It's, you know, it's, it's.
Up to it's like a matter ofopinion so Why do you feel like
it's important for people andespecially moms to carve out
space for creativity?
Heidi (45:05):
I I think i've been creative My whole life, although
I didn't particularly think ofmyself as a creative person.
And even when I was working increative jobs, like being a
writer and editor, I think wouldbe considered a creative job by
most people, but it didn'treally strike me that way.
But when I became a mom, I feltlike I really had to keep
(45:30):
choosing it over and overactively because it would have
been very easy to.
Be like, there is zero time andI don't have energy.
And what's the point?
Like this would be a very easything to cut, but I kept missing
it.
Like when I was not writing orif I wasn't painting or those
(45:51):
sounds, those are biggeractivities and I feel like you
need to include, but you know,for me personally, those were
practices I already had.
And when I.
didn't do them, I felt less thanmyself.
I felt grumpy.
I felt just sort of depressed.
And when I do them, when I makea tiny bit of time, even if it's
(46:15):
like to write a haiku, like ashort, short poem or doodle
something like there's somethingabout having a project that
feels like it's all mine.
I am the only one that gets tochoose what goes on the page or
what it looks like.
And it is like a place where Ican express ambiguities or
(46:38):
things that I maybe evenjournaling doesn't really feel
like it works for me sometimesbecause it's like too much to
connect sentences or whatever,but I can get a flow going with
something else.
It can feel like I've expressedsomething or I've gotten some
clarity with something in a waythat I can't really otherwise.
(47:01):
And when you were talking aboutlike, this kind of pressure to
monetize, I, I think that'sreally common.
Whether you have a creative jobor not.
And, and I think people arebeing creative, like way more
than they recognize or in alldifferent ways.
You know, maybe it's gardening,maybe it's choosing a like cool
(47:26):
combination of your likenecklace in your shirt or Making
like a little nice snack platefor yourself that feels artful
or purposeful or like takingphotos or there's just so many
different things that when wenotice like we're actually doing
(47:46):
them with a creative mindset itand that just means like we're
being open to the process, we'rebeing curious, we're
experimenting, playing, Then wecan enjoy the process instead of
worrying so much about theoutcome is and we can kind of
release desire on like, do Ineed to make money with this?
No, you don't need to make moneywith every single piece of those
(48:08):
activities.
Natalie (48:10):
Yeah, that's really true.
I'm thought about there are somany things that are creative,
like cooking can be reallycreative.
And yeah, there's all kinds ofthings.
And it's interesting becauselike, there are things that you
don't really, no one's going tosit there and say, well, you're
not good at that.
Like gardening.
I mean, who can qualify, youknow, like qualify that, but
(48:33):
you're really bad at plantingthose seeds.
You know what I mean?
But then there are things thatit's like, people do evaluate
like painting and writing allthat stuff.
But how do you, like, do youfeel like for you personally,
it's hard for you to find timefor creativity?
Since your job is creative, doesthat ever feel like there's a
(48:56):
weird overlap there?
Heidi (48:58):
Yes and no.
Like, it has been a while sinceI painted.
It's hard for me to find time tobe creative on something that's
not job related.
But I feel like after doing thisfor so long, I am better at
making the job stuff actuallycreative instead of, like,
(49:22):
grinding through it or feelinglike Because it's client work or
it's going to be sold in someway that that changes the
process or like requires me todo something else.
Like I kind of sneak in thecreative moments sometimes and
also like I, I think I'mbringing that mindset to, like,
(49:48):
the way I, things in thebathroom, you know, like,
arrange, like, the countertop,or like, a lot of times I think,
Exploring a new place could feelcreative or reading something
that doesn't have anything to dowith anything, you know, you
know, like if you don't knowanything about horses and you
(50:08):
pick up a horse magazine, likeit's going to spark new ideas
or.
Like a lot of times I think it'sreally helpful to like it could
be a cookbook or it could bewhatever, but like take
something that's alreadyproduced and think about what
you would change if it was yourproject.
And just that little likeprocess of thinking about it and
(50:30):
making a decision I think helpsyou kind of find your voice,
find your vision, and feel alittle like, yeah, maybe I have
something to say that can bereally empowering.
Yeah.
Natalie (50:44):
What are some of your suggestions on how moms can make
time in their daily lives forcreativity?
Heidi (50:53):
I think first thinking like it can be found like that
time can be found and it can betiny like five minutes is And
you know, I, I was writing that,the book about creativity and
motherhood during the pandemic,you know, an hour a week, and
(51:13):
that's not ideal.
It got done.
I wrote the book and I'vewritten other books, you know.
30 minutes a day or whatever.
And I understand the appeal oflike going away to a cabin or
moving on something at acreative retreat for a weekend
(51:36):
or whatever, but that's not mylife.
And it's probably not mostpeople's lives right now.
And.
Just being ready, like knowingwhat you want to work on, having
your materials ready, havingyour notebook ready, being
flexible with where and when andwhat it looks like when you
work.
For me, sometimes that means I'mwriting in my notebook while I
(51:57):
wait outside speech or OT, likethat's quiet time for me and no
one's going to interrupt me.
So that's really creative time,a lot of times.
And if you have something that,you know.
You need to think about and likedaydream about problem solve,
you know, do that on a walk orwhile you're doing the dishes
and it still counts.
I think sometimes too, we thinkI'm not being creative if I'm
(52:21):
not sitting at my desk, writingin my computer, or I'm not like
picking up the actual paintbrushor doing the craft itself.
But there's so much that's goingon as we process our experiences
and have like ideas come intoour minds.
Think about how we might trythose.
(52:42):
I think that's really valuabletime too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Natalie (52:46):
I think too, like while you were talking, I was thinking
about how kind of like I couldsee creative or like maybe the
creative process.
It could be a littleromanticized sometimes, like,
cause you're talking about goingaway to a retreat.
Like, have you ever seen thoseInstagram videos where it's like
someone, like, they light acandle and they have a cozy
blanket and the lighting'sperfect and there's this really
(53:08):
nice relaxing music and they sitdown and they start writing?
Like, it's not always gonna belike that.
Like sometimes, right now it'ssummer, I'm podcasting, I can
hear my son moving around in thehouse.
I'm in the back of my mind.
I'm like, when's he going tocome ask me for a snack?
You know, like, and I wouldconsider podcasting very
creative.
So it's like, it's not alwaysgoing to be like this romantic
(53:32):
thing.
I love those videos, but Iwouldn't say that it's
necessarily reality for a lot ofpeople
Heidi (53:39):
when they're being creative.
I mean, you definitely don'twant to like.
Think, well, if I can't do that,then I can't create something.
And part of why I feel reallypassionate about it, about
creativity for moms.
Isn't just, I think like firstand foremost, it's very
nourishing.
(54:00):
It's very grounding and it'sreally lovely to give yourself
that time.
But I also think mothers have somuch to share.
Like you have experiences no oneelse has.
You have your own wisdom.
And if you can.
Give yourself permission to takeyour own ideas seriously and
(54:20):
just like allow the idea thatsomewhere someone out there
wants to see your vision come tolife or to hear your ideas from
you like the world needs that Ithink they need way more and I
Want to encourage people to dothat Even if it is messy along
(54:43):
the way and doesn't look the waythey expected the creative
process to look.
Yeah
Natalie (54:48):
I think that like the presentation of that, it, you
know, hits different, likepleasure centers in the brain or
whatever.
Like we love those videos thatare like super polished and
beautiful.
It's, it's fun to watch.
It's a nice escape, but Iactually really love like videos
(55:08):
of.
Like you said, of moms justbeing messy, being themselves
because it's relatable.
Like I can look at a mom who,you know, there's a pile of
laundry on her couch or likethere's, you know, snack
wrappers here and there.
Like that's reality.
That's going to make herrelatable to me.
(55:29):
That's going to make me want toengage with her content or like
with what she's doing.
So it's like, yeah, I think it.
Both serve a purpose, you know,like the beautiful presentation,
but also just the very real, Imean, cause you need energy for
creativity, but if you'respending your create, you know,
(55:51):
your energy on trying to make itlook perfect, then you don't
have that energy.
So.
Heidi (55:56):
For sure.
And it, it zaps your energy ifyou are telling yourself you're
doing it wrong, like the wholetime you're trying to be
creative.
So the more you can just say,this is how I do it right now,
maybe like in a year or 10years, I will light a candle and
(56:17):
have my own desk in the studioor whatever.
But for now, this is what itlooks like for me.
I think.
That's gonna be a moresatisfying process for sure.
Yeah.
Natalie (56:29):
So where can people find like, what are you up to
right now?
I know you mentioned yourcreativity and motherhood book.
Is that out yet?
Heidi (56:38):
Or no, it's in submission.
It's being submitted topublishers.
So you know, hopefully in a yearor two, publishing moves really
slowly.
Hopefully it will be out.
But I do have a PDF.
I'll send you the link so youcan share it with people.
It's called seven days ofinspiration.
And it's a really simple guide.
(57:00):
Very easy.
In the moment quick things youcan do to feel a little more
creative and in touch with thatside of yourself And you can
always find me athelloheidiefiedler.
com Where I'm sharinginspiration and encouragement
with all the creative moms outthere
Natalie (57:19):
Cool, and are you on like Instagram, right?
Heidi (57:23):
I'm on Instagram at Heidi Fiedler and I just started a sub
stack called Mothers Who Makeand I'm interviewing 100
creative mothers about theirexperience.
It's really cool.
I feel like it's a newsletterbut I'm treating it as like a
museum for Celebrating mothersand all the really cool work
(57:45):
that they're doing.
Natalie (57:46):
That is really cool.
I have to check that out.
How do you, is that like a substack, like an app or what is
that
Heidi (57:52):
exactly?
I think you can use, you canlike read it on your browser.
And I think as like a reader,it, it almost feels like a
newsletter, like it's going tocome to your inbox, but there is
an app and the app is kind ofnice.
As like an alternative to likeif you're standing in in line
and you don't want to look atInstagram You can open the sub
(58:13):
stack app and like readNewsletters all in one place and
it's a little more like literaryI guess I'm enjoying it so far.
It's very new for me.
I'm like still learning what itall means and how to navigate
Natalie (58:28):
it.
Okay So someone could go onthere and find you on there and
Heidi (58:33):
then yeah, search mothers who make on sub stack.
Or if you go to hello, HeidiFiedler.
com, there's a link at thebottom to sign up for the sub
stack.
Okay.
Well, awesome.
Natalie (58:43):
Well, thank you so much for coming on and chatting with
me today.
Really loved getting to knowmore about you.
You too.
Thank you, Natalie.
Thank you so much for joining mefor this week's episode.
If you'd like to get in contactwith me, you can find me on
Instagram at rad mom radio.
And you can also send me anemail.
My email address is radmomradioat gmail.
(59:05):
com.
Have a great week and I'll talkto you soon.
Bye.
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