November 1, 2022 • 34 mins
A Michigan original. A musical storyteller. A man who made a lifetime of memories from behind a piano.
In this episode, we sit down with George Winters, the beloved “Red Piano Man” from Flint and Davison. George is a lifelong musician, entertainer, teacher, and creative force. His signature red electric piano has become a staple at community events, local concerts, senior centers, benefit performances, and neighborhood gatherings across Mid-Michigan.
George reflects on:
• His musical beginnings in Flint
• Performing everywhere from bars to churches to backyards
• What inspires him to keep bringing joy to people
• The meaning of local community arts in Michigan
• How the Flint/Davison area shaped his identity as a musician
• The people, mentors, and moments that built his sound
Warm, humble, and full of heart, George Winters represents the best of Michigan’s creative spirit — a man who used music to bring people together, one performance at a time.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Arthur Busch (00:00):
So we're recording this.
This is Arthur Busch, you'relistening to Radio Free Flint,
and I have as my guest a veryaccomplished musician.
George Winters, Welcome.
I do.
Hey, it's a pleasure to see youthis morning.
George is talking to me from Idon't know,
Davision, Michigan, home ofMichael Moore and John Sinclair.
(00:22):
So let's let George do what hedoes best, which is play music.
This is a tune called C Jam.
George Winter's the piano manfrom Davison, Michigan.
Playing in our region.
(02:02):
And I want to talk to you alittle about your career, the
music, how music scenes changed,what you think of Flint.
Are you a Flintstone?
George Winters (02:10):
Yeah.
I was born, raised in Flintuntil high school, and then we
moved to Flushing.
Arthur Busch (02:14):
So what does it mean to be a Flintstone?
George Winters (02:17):
Something it's it's home and it's a it's an
incredible place.
I don't know.
That's that's kind of a toughieactually.
Just the people that you grewup with there, it's just a bond
that you never lose.
I don't know.
Something about it coming backto Flint too is always home.
After all the places I've beenon the road, it's kind of
amazing, you know, that you'dwant to get back here, but you
(02:38):
just do.
Arthur Busch (02:40):
If you had to describe Flint in one word, what
would it be?
George Winters (02:43):
Home.
Arthur Busch (02:44):
All right, I'll take that.
How long have you been playingmusic?
George Winters (02:47):
Let's see, since I was nine, so that's been what
about 23 years?
That's actually adding up quitea bit now.
It's over 50 years.
Arthur Busch (02:56):
So you missed a couple decades.
George Winters (02:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Arthur Busch (03:01):
Just so the audience knows.
I mean, there's some that aremy age that probably have
watched you play in a club orsomeplace along the path in the
Flint area.
But uh just so that uh myaudience who also comes to us
from all other uh venues aroundthe globe, tell us what kind of
musician you are and what it isthat that you do exactly.
George Winters (03:21):
Well, uh it's probably not that definable in
one word for sure.
Like just a lot of things.
Actually, uh mainly what I'vebeen doing the last 23 years or
something like that, 24 years,uh, is doing pianos.
We do a lot of corporateevents, and and I was doing
them, I still do a little bitaround the country even trying
(03:42):
to get away from that.
You know, uh I did it a lot fora while.
In fact, for five years, it'sbeen less than about four years
ago.
I kind of got out of that, butI was just full-time, I was
crossing the Mississippi almostevery week.
I got I got home every week,which was cool, you know, for a
few days, but it was just kindof crazy driving out there to
(04:03):
Nebraska and you know, Kansasand North Dakota.
I I make it from here to Fargoin 16 hours.
Only time I stop is to get gasor a rest stop or one 15-minute
stop, maybe a subway and boom.
Arthur Busch (04:18):
You play the piano.
Yeah, do you play any othermusic?
George Winters (04:22):
Yeah, I've I play um I picked up the guitar
when I was about 16 and I kindof got a little more serious at
it when I was 18.
And then I I really worked hardat it for a long time.
So I've been doing that, youknow, ever since then.
And I I play a little harmonicato get a hard shot at singing.
Arthur Busch (04:41):
Are you a solo or do you have a band that you
travel with?
George Winters (04:44):
Or what I do they do on pianos is typically
with a partner, they call it sobe two piano players.
Most of the time anymore, Itravel with local guys.
If I travel or just play localgigs, I try to stay in Michigan.
In fact, uh right at thispoint, right now, I have nothing
else on the state.
I just got back from a littlebig deal.
I did a couple gigs in uhIndiana and then one in just
(05:06):
north of Pittsburgh like asummer about a week ago.
That was pretty cool.
But hey, I've been doingsomething else kind of cool too.
I just kind of fell into thisthing with the sheriff.
I don't know if you knewanything about this at all.
The sheriff was saying, I don'tknow how many Bill Features you
know.
I want to be some people calledme and they had a gig going on.
Yeah, so we played that, andthe sheriff got hold and he said
(05:28):
he was gonna be thinking aboutdoing a Bobby Sear tribute.
I said, Really, I love BobSearch, so yeah, I I'd give it a
shot, you know.
So he wanted to be in these Hegot like a 10-piece band.
And we've been rehearsing andwe did our first gig last
Saturday and Sag at a placecalled the Ball.
He actually was a union haul.
Arthur Busch (05:47):
Oh, he's in the band too?
George Winters (05:49):
He's yeah, not only is he in the band, he's a
singer, the lead singer.
And he's also a piano playertoo, but he just wants to sing.
And uh that's cool.
I mean, and he does a good job.
I I was, you know, pleasantlysurprised at how good he is.
And he sounds a lot like BobSeeger.
And he looks a little bit likehim.
I don't know if you've seen hispicture, he threw his beard
(06:10):
out, he's got longer hair.
Arthur Busch (06:13):
I saw the clean cut picture when he wanted to be
the sheriff, though.
And uh he's been there quite along time.
George Winters (06:19):
I'm I'm kind of a patriotic guy, I love America,
and I like to you knowrecognize his bad.
So we do a little thing, youknow, and and we get if we can,
we do poke him up to the frontof the stage.
So we do that, and then then wedo uh learn the fight song from
the army fight song,interruptor, navy, air force, uh
(06:40):
coast guard, and then uh ofcourse the marine.
It's a cool thing.
And there's usually always apolice officer there.
So I would do like uh a littlebit of I Pot the Law, get people
to sing it, you know, I paw thelaw and boom, people singing
all along.
Arthur Busch (06:56):
So let's talk about music.
Let's hear some of your music.
I think the audience wouldenjoy it.
Here's uh red piano by GeorgeWinters from Davidson, Michigan.
We'll play the song in itsentirety and come back on the
other side and talk some moreabout George's music and about
the fun music scene and whathe's learned after 50 years of
being the piano man.
George Winters (07:53):
I can tell that you felt for a fan.
(10:21):
I'll say on my ready.
(10:54):
So went to flushing high schooland you grew up in uh well
actually in Flint until 1969graduated in 1974, so I did my
high school in flushing.
Arthur Busch (11:04):
I see.
And what neighborhood did youlive in in Flint?
George Winters (11:07):
It's right on Begole Street by Melbourne.
Can I back you up a little bitjust for a second here?
Back to that Flint.
Yeah, sure.
When it went because I told youI lived on Gold Street by
Melbourne.
Well, my dad actually he whenhe came to Flint, the family
came from uh Royal Oak, and hisand he was a president of, they
moved him up to president ofPudenties, insurance guy.
(11:29):
Something happened, businesswasn't doing as good as they
expect.
They wanted firing them.
They didn't do him, they didhim wrong.
Anyhow, my dad was a greatpiano player.
He went and he got a jobselling organs.
He loved organs, you know,anyhow.
So he brings home an organ andhe sets it in the living room
and he's all proud of it.
He's got this new job.
He's like, I can have anybodyplaying both hands and a foot in
(11:50):
five minutes.
He says, You come here, and Iwas the baby of the family.
So he sat me down.
And uh, anyhow, I couldn't doit.
I couldn't do it.
So I kept doing it anyhow.
I'll I'll finish this before Iget to the other part, but I I
couldn't do it, so I kind of lethim down.
I felt bad, I guess.
And he left the thing there,and I just kept messing with it.
Pretty soon I was getting so Iwas getting the hang of it.
(12:10):
One day I'm like, Hey, yeah,come here, look at this.
He's like, turned it on andstarted jamming.
He's like, Oh, okay.
But so then he anyhow, the thepoint of the story I'm trying to
take this to is he wound upgetting uh taken over the
Hammond Orchestra, which was onChevrolet and Mackin.
And that was a very uh hobnobfor uh Hammond B3s were the big
(12:31):
thing in the late 60s, early70s.
All the rock bands had them.
The bands that came to town,the IMA and stuff would they
would their manager would get ahold of my dad, he'd run them a
B3.
We got to see a lot of bandsbackstage.
Jethro Tall.
We thought they were done withtheir concert.
We ran back there to get the mybrothers and me and my
girlfriend at the time.
We run back there to get theB3, and all them guys are
(12:54):
sitting around kind of lookingat us like, Who are these guys?
And we just froze, you know.
And then all of a sudden, theystarted playing their second set
we watched from backstage, andthat was incredible.
Anyhow, I love Jeff O'Toole.
Uh, my dad came home one nightwith this story.
He says, Yes, hippie come in.
He says, He's really classy,hippie.
He says, He says, He had aponytail, he said he had a
(13:16):
sideburns, came down to hischin.
He says, So you want to see aB3, and a B3 was like 3,500
bucks, plus you had to buy aLeslie was another thousand
bucks or whatever, 900, youknow.
And uh, I want to see what hegoes, yeah, right over here.
And he says, the guy turned iton and bought it like a pack of
cigarettes.
He said, Have you ever heard ofGrand Punk Railroad?
At the time, I'd heard of them.
They weren't really famous inFlint yet, you know.
(13:39):
He goes, Well, the guy boughtthis thing, we're gonna deliver
it.
You want to you want to go withus?
I'm like, sure, you know.
So we went to Mark Farner'shouse out in London.
It was outside of town, justoff London road.
But anyhow, went in there,brought that B3 out there.
When we pulled in the driveway,this guy came out of the house.
He's a big after, he's aboutnine foot tall, and you know,
(14:00):
got in his link in and took off.
It was Don Brewer.
I didn't know that at the time,but he was so under such a
distinct looking character.
I just still see him in mymind.
But anyhow, we went in thereand met Mark Farner, and he got
that B3, and we brought it overthere.
And as soon as we left, hestarted playing and he he broke
footstone for music.
Danny McClain was an organplayer, and I was big time into
(14:23):
uh baseball.
But anyhow, my dad uh uh saysto me, Denny McClain McClain is
coming to town at the IMA forsomething, I'm gonna go meet
him.
And I kind of laughed.
I'm like, yeah, right.
You know, good luck that, youknow.
Next day he has the guy at myhouse, okay.
And oh, Denny McClain.
And I had him my mit.
And Denny wasn't that friendlyto me, to be honest with you,
remember.
I was like, okay, whatever.
Arthur Busch (14:44):
Now, Denny McClain was often seen playing at the
Shorthorn Lounge in Flint's onDort Highway near court.
Did you ever play that lounge?
George Winters (14:55):
I did.
In fact, uh, more after it,after it was done, uh, you know,
after the heyday, I playedthere a little bit.
In fact, the guy that owned it,he had taken it back a couple
times.
And I told him, I said, I'dlove to own a club like this.
I wish I had a little moremoney, you know.
And he goes, you know what?
He says, I I I like the idea ofan entertainer owning this
place.
He says, uh, I might just likesell you this place, let you pay
(15:16):
me out until he started tellingme some of the numbers that it
used to do, and they're amazing.
Arthur Busch (15:21):
George, how did you first get interested in
music?
Was it the story with the organor was it something something
else?
George Winters (15:28):
Yeah, I think it was that, and I don't know why
I I I often have scratched myhead to why I glued to it like I
did, but I just I it was when Iwas really young, like back
then, that was middle sixties.
Uh, it was it was organ andbaseball.
That was my two things, youknow.
Arthur Busch (15:46):
So, George, let's listen to a different one of
your songs with a moodsynthesizer and your Hammond B3
organ.
This one's called Heaven sincewe're talking about flip.
George, you uh have spannedquite a long time.
(19:22):
You said you've been a musicianfor 50 years, and I can only
think of a few others that arestill at it.
So I think that Jimmy Zimbo,who's also out there still
trotting around with his fingerson the keyboards, Bob Ado, who
don't know what this too is.
George Winters (19:36):
Jimmy is actually working for a company
that I've been doing sales for.
He went down there and helping.
I've been selling piano shells.
Uh, I don't know if you knowwhat a piano shell is.
It looks it's furniture, itlooks like a piano.
You put a keyboard in it, theymake different sizes, and we've
been selling them all over theworld.
And when I got off the road, Itell you, I was on the road for
like five years solid.
(19:57):
I was kind of looking forsomething.
He offered me a job selling forhim, and I I didn't think it
was gonna turn into much thing,and it's just kind of taking
off.
Arthur Busch (20:05):
You played a lot of joints in the Flint area over
those 50 years, if that's whatit is.
Yes, tell me your favorites.
George Winters (20:12):
You know, I think I I love Bosleys, I really
love Bosleys.
That was like a home, and DougBosley was uh such a great guy
to me.
I mean, I could can't even tellyou he was like he looked out
for me like nobody really everdid in that kind of business,
you know, for that long.
That's amazing.
I had raised my familybasically working for him and
also for John too at thespeakeasy.
(20:34):
He was also very cool, and umtalking about John and Marianne
Barnadelli and flushing, yes, atthe speakeasy that was a great
spot, it was.
Yes, and and and I love thempeople too, they're just super
good.
Arthur Busch (20:47):
There's gotta be some old ones, like maybe the
fireside, yeah.
George Winters (20:50):
Like you, you know, I was just funny you said
that because that's what I wasgonna say next.
And actually, I played at thefireside and the Bob Badato trio
back in the 70s.
Uh yeah, in fact, in fact, andtoo, another thing about Bob
just I mean, he's always beenone of my heroes, and one of my
favorite sax players.
In fact, I did an uh album thathad him play sax on it, and
(21:11):
it's worldwide.
You can dial it in anywhere andcheck it out.
Arthur Busch (21:14):
We didn't talk about one of my favorites of all
time, which is Jimmy Lump'sAloha Lounge.
Did you ever play that one?
George Winters (21:20):
You know what?
I never really I think I didplay a couple off nights, I
think.
About I've forgotten that, butI used to go in there, it was
just a cool place.
You know, you're talking abouthow things you mentioned earlier
about you know, how things arethey are and I see to me, it's
not like that at all.
It used to be where you playsomeplace six nights a week,
have a house gig, they call it.
And some of these guys stillwant to do that.
(21:41):
They're like, hey, we shouldget together and have a house
gig.
I don't they don't do thatanymore.
It just doesn't happen.
Arthur Busch (21:48):
Why isn't it popular anymore?
George Winters (21:50):
I think if you want my take, I'm just a piano
player and got my own littlepoint of view, but I just think
times change and and people werereally into live music for a
long time.
And I know, like, I had mytrailer worked on, and it was
right by this country bar out inthe decline, and I drove by
there and they turned it into adispensary.
So I I mentioned it to this kidthat was working on my he said,
(22:12):
Did you ever go there?
And and he's like, uh, no, hesays, I never went there.
He says, My dad did that kindof stuff.
I've never been in that at all.
And that's I think that theyounger generation is a lot like
that.
They've never bought an albumbecause they stream it.
Another thing is what wasreally fascinating, I got
remarried out almost 20 yearsago.
My wife had daughters.
(22:33):
I took them on a field tripdown to Sloan Museum, and I
hadn't been there since I was akid, and I was fascinated.
I couldn't, they want run runthrough the place.
I'm reading everything abouthow Flint became a boom town.
You know, people moved up herefrom the south to be get rich in
the in the auto plant.
You know, I mean, just thingswere a lot different.
Things were it seems like youalways knew somebody, just about
(22:57):
everybody was affiliated withsomebody that worked for General
Motors.
You know, it's just thatbecause I thought all right
then.
Arthur Busch (23:04):
Let's take just a moment to one stretch your legs.
This one's an up tempo songcalled Lucky by George Winters
of Davison, Michigan.
George Winters (25:02):
It was a great time.
It was a nice mix, too, becausebetween Flint and Flushing.
Arthur Busch (25:07):
What is it about flushing?
Because people do really loveflushing.
I don't ever talk to anybodywho says, Oh, it sucks.
I can tell you what I likeabout flushing, which is the AW.
Okay.
You got good popcorn, andthere's something about their
hot dogs I really like.
George Winters (25:21):
And the room is not bad either.
Maybe it was the time, it wasjust a cool place.
Going to school there, therewas a guy that was the art
teacher.
Yeah, Wolfgang was his name.
Everybody knew that guy,Richard Wolfgang.
Everybody knew him, but he wasa great guy.
He motivated a lot of music.
He was really into music, heplayed banjo.
We'd have jam sessions.
(25:42):
I think I think I did have him,I did take one art class, but
even when I wasn't his class, hehad me bring a piano down on
Friday sometimes and just jam,you know.
Arthur Busch (25:51):
When he retired from flushing, eventually he
ended up in a gallery, bought agallery on Mackinac Island.
Wolfgang did the posters forthe Mackinac Lila Festival.
They're collector's items now.
George Winters (26:04):
To his place there, his gallery, actually, a
few times.
And what was really interestingtoo is he had like you're
talking about, he made the thethe artwork he did for up there,
and I come back down here and Iseen it like where the holiday
innocent or the gateway holidayin there in Hill Road.
They had it hanging in there,and I seen it a few other places
too.
(26:24):
It was just amazing, you know.
It's like uh it's almost likeseeing Craig Frost, you know,
music tours, you know, round thepre stuff, which was kind of
cool because I knew that guyback way back when, you know,
but he played with Bob Seeker.
Arthur Busch (26:37):
So besides growing up in flushing, you've played
in a lot of places around thecountry.
What when you tell peopleyou're from Flint, what do they
have to say about that?
George Winters (26:45):
Well, that's actually what I was gonna say a
minute ago.
So I was out west.
I hate to say it, but you know,I got traveled with this one
guy from Phoenix, and you know,people say, Where are you guys
from?
Well, I'm from Flint, you know,because you want to you don't
want to say Davidson or Flushingor something, because they
mostly never heard of it.
Yeah, but you say Flint, ohokay, where are you from?
Phoenix.
They just they just grab it,they turn they'd ignore me a lot
(27:08):
of times, you know, it's likeyou're from Flint, but you know,
and then they joke a lot tooabout the water, you know.
You got good water?
Yeah, I have a well.
Arthur Busch (27:16):
Dueling piano thing.
I first found out about that inSan Antonio, Texas on the
riverwalk.
George Winters (27:23):
I've been there, beautiful place, but the
concepts spread around thecountry, like most of the piano
bars, like Rum Runners Down toLance, right by right across
from where the lug nuts played.
It was like very high trafficarea, JD's key club down to
Pontiac.
It was when downtown Pontiacwas really booming, and there's
a lot of people there, justpopulation coming in from all
(27:45):
the little suburbs.
It wasn't really Pontiacpeople, but so and the same
thing with Mojo still does goodout in uh Grand Rapids because
they have the right demographic.
I didn't play down there muchwhen I was young, a little bit,
but mostly I got I got to knowthe city a lot more in my older
age, like after the speakeasydays, even especially doodle and
(28:05):
pianos, because that kind oftook off, you know.
And there's a few places thatopened up.
We used to do another one onHaggerty and Fort 14 Mile.
It's called Good Fellows.
And uh, and that place jammed.
It was big and it was packedall the time.
I remember the owner was asuper nice guy, he was a
builder, he made his moneybuilding.
He bought that place, and hesays, he says, You want to make
(28:26):
a lot of money, don't buy a dueland piano.
I'm looking around.
I don't understand, you know,you get a cover charge, you
know.
Arthur Busch (28:34):
A lot of the musicians I talk to, and he and
even ones that are knownnationally, they do a lot of
these gigs like you're talkingabout.
Once they reach a certain age,they don't really want to play
clubs if they can avoid it.
And so they start playinghouses and house parties and
garden parties and all that.
Is that a natural progression?
George Winters (28:52):
Maybe, and especially with the way things
have gone.
Like I say, it's not like thelive music isn't five, six
nights a week.
People don't just go to see itlike that.
But there is still, I thinksince the shutdown, people have
realized they want to do, theyjust want to live life more,
they want to go see it.
Um, it's been playing thesepiano shows, and it's nothing to
do with me because duelingpianos is not personal.
(29:14):
It's they'll say, we're gonnasell do we're gonna have a
dueling piano gig.
It could be any two guys,really.
So it's you know, I can'treally take the credit for
selling them out.
It's not because of me, it'sdueling pianos, it's uh shtick,
you know, and people like it.
It's fun.
Arthur Busch (29:28):
Yeah, no, some of those people that are dueling
pianos, they start dancingaround on top of their pianos
and all kinds of crazy stuff.
George Winters (29:34):
Yeah, that's an interesting thing you brought up
because when I was working atRum Runners, uh, I asked some
people one night, some of therecorders, I said, Who do you
think's a good piano player?
I'm just curious.
And they they named off acouple people.
I said, I didn't think theywere that good, but I, you know,
I comparatively speaking, youknow, on a music level,
whatever.
But I said, Why do you likethem?
And they said, Well, I like theone guy because he gets up on
(29:57):
top of the piano.
But you know, people.
They listen with their eyes.
So if you can give them a show,that's kind of you know, it's a
showy thing.
It's just not a personal thing.
It's like I can do this, youknow, command and do the song
and do the command and get theaudience to do that.
You can do it.
Joe Blow can do it.
Anyone can do it.
It's just if you do it right,it works.
(30:19):
So it's a formula kind ofthing, and it's not personal.
It's not, I went from playingBosley, speak easy, playing a
lot of dinner music.
You know, my hands were in goodshape when I got into it.
I'd play licks that you knowwould impress me and nobody
would even notice.
Not even, they just wouldn'teven notice.
But as soon as you startreally, you know, doing this
kind of stuff, you know, they'relike, Oh, look at this, look at
(30:40):
this guy, you know, it could bejust one note.
You know.
Arthur Busch (30:45):
So the the performative part of this
business that you've gottenyourself into, you're pretty
good at.
You were always a little moreperformative than some of them
other guys.
Although, I mean, you takewatch a guy like Zimbo, he knows
how to work the crowd.
George Winters (30:57):
He has a knack with people and a great voice.
Well, it's funny because we'vegot a little bit in a
competition because he's thereand I'm here, you know, I know
he sings great and all that.
People, a lot of people mightnot realize him and me actually
traveled in a rock and roll bandbefore any of that stuff
happened.
I've no uh it's like I haveanother lifetime before with you
know before all that stuff evenhappened, you know, and he was
(31:20):
part of it.
Arthur Busch (31:21):
You're from Flint, you've seen a lot of changes
over the years.
You've gone from some of theheydays of the rock bands from
Flint.
We didn't talk much about yourrock your experience as a rock
star, but um you've seen a lotof things come and go.
Mostly it was going for GeneralMotors, and that changed
significantly.
How did General Motors goingchange Flint and a music scene
(31:42):
as far as you were concerned?
George Winters (31:43):
Uh I just think that uh the money was not there
anymore.
People didn't have thesecurity, the money, a lot of
people left town.
I mean, the the population hasdiminished quite a bit, I think.
Plus, along with the timeschanging too, like I say, people
now.
If you ever go in a bar, too,you ever notice that most of
them have like 25 TVs everywhereyou look, and they got cage
(32:07):
fighting, they got hockey, theygot just it's all action.
It's hard to people don't seemto.
I think that between theirphones and all that stuff, it's
harder for them to focus.
Arthur Busch (32:18):
George winners, I really appreciate taking the
time to talk to me.
Goodbye for now.
All .
Thank you very much.
So we're recording this.
This is Arthur Busch, you'relistening to Radio Free Flint,
and I have as my guest a veryaccomplished musician.
George Winters, Welcome.
I do.
Hey, it's a pleasure to see youthis morning.
George is talking to me from Idon't know,
Davision, Michigan, home ofMichael Moore and John Sinclair.
(00:22):
So let's let George do what hedoes best, which is play music.
This is a tune called C Jam.
George Winter's the piano manfrom Davison, Michigan.
Playing in our region.
(02:02):
And I want to talk to you alittle about your career, the
music, how music scenes changed,what you think of Flint.
Are you a Flintstone?
George Winters (02:10):
Yeah.
I was born, raised in Flintuntil high school, and then we
moved to Flushing.
Arthur Busch (02:14):
So what does it mean to be a Flintstone?
George Winters (02:17):
Something it's it's home and it's a it's an
incredible place.
I don't know.
That's that's kind of a toughieactually.
Just the people that you grewup with there, it's just a bond
that you never lose.
I don't know.
Something about it coming backto Flint too is always home.
After all the places I've beenon the road, it's kind of
amazing, you know, that you'dwant to get back here, but you
(02:38):
just do.
Arthur Busch (02:40):
If you had to describe Flint in one word, what
would it be?
George Winters (02:43):
Home.
Arthur Busch (02:44):
All right, I'll take that.
How long have you been playingmusic?
George Winters (02:47):
Let's see, since I was nine, so that's been what
about 23 years?
That's actually adding up quitea bit now.
It's over 50 years.
Arthur Busch (02:56):
So you missed a couple decades.
George Winters (02:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Arthur Busch (03:01):
Just so the audience knows.
I mean, there's some that aremy age that probably have
watched you play in a club orsomeplace along the path in the
Flint area.
But uh just so that uh myaudience who also comes to us
from all other uh venues aroundthe globe, tell us what kind of
musician you are and what it isthat that you do exactly.
George Winters (03:21):
Well, uh it's probably not that definable in
one word for sure.
Like just a lot of things.
Actually, uh mainly what I'vebeen doing the last 23 years or
something like that, 24 years,uh, is doing pianos.
We do a lot of corporateevents, and and I was doing
them, I still do a little bitaround the country even trying
(03:42):
to get away from that.
You know, uh I did it a lot fora while.
In fact, for five years, it'sbeen less than about four years
ago.
I kind of got out of that, butI was just full-time, I was
crossing the Mississippi almostevery week.
I got I got home every week,which was cool, you know, for a
few days, but it was just kindof crazy driving out there to
(04:03):
Nebraska and you know, Kansasand North Dakota.
I I make it from here to Fargoin 16 hours.
Only time I stop is to get gasor a rest stop or one 15-minute
stop, maybe a subway and boom.
Arthur Busch (04:18):
You play the piano.
Yeah, do you play any othermusic?
George Winters (04:22):
Yeah, I've I play um I picked up the guitar
when I was about 16 and I kindof got a little more serious at
it when I was 18.
And then I I really worked hardat it for a long time.
So I've been doing that, youknow, ever since then.
And I I play a little harmonicato get a hard shot at singing.
Arthur Busch (04:41):
Are you a solo or do you have a band that you
travel with?
George Winters (04:44):
Or what I do they do on pianos is typically
with a partner, they call it sobe two piano players.
Most of the time anymore, Itravel with local guys.
If I travel or just play localgigs, I try to stay in Michigan.
In fact, uh right at thispoint, right now, I have nothing
else on the state.
I just got back from a littlebig deal.
I did a couple gigs in uhIndiana and then one in just
(05:06):
north of Pittsburgh like asummer about a week ago.
That was pretty cool.
But hey, I've been doingsomething else kind of cool too.
I just kind of fell into thisthing with the sheriff.
I don't know if you knewanything about this at all.
The sheriff was saying, I don'tknow how many Bill Features you
know.
I want to be some people calledme and they had a gig going on.
Yeah, so we played that, andthe sheriff got hold and he said
(05:28):
he was gonna be thinking aboutdoing a Bobby Sear tribute.
I said, Really, I love BobSearch, so yeah, I I'd give it a
shot, you know.
So he wanted to be in these Hegot like a 10-piece band.
And we've been rehearsing andwe did our first gig last
Saturday and Sag at a placecalled the Ball.
He actually was a union haul.
Arthur Busch (05:47):
Oh, he's in the band too?
George Winters (05:49):
He's yeah, not only is he in the band, he's a
singer, the lead singer.
And he's also a piano playertoo, but he just wants to sing.
And uh that's cool.
I mean, and he does a good job.
I I was, you know, pleasantlysurprised at how good he is.
And he sounds a lot like BobSeeger.
And he looks a little bit likehim.
I don't know if you've seen hispicture, he threw his beard
(06:10):
out, he's got longer hair.
Arthur Busch (06:13):
I saw the clean cut picture when he wanted to be
the sheriff, though.
And uh he's been there quite along time.
George Winters (06:19):
I'm I'm kind of a patriotic guy, I love America,
and I like to you knowrecognize his bad.
So we do a little thing, youknow, and and we get if we can,
we do poke him up to the frontof the stage.
So we do that, and then then wedo uh learn the fight song from
the army fight song,interruptor, navy, air force, uh
(06:40):
coast guard, and then uh ofcourse the marine.
It's a cool thing.
And there's usually always apolice officer there.
So I would do like uh a littlebit of I Pot the Law, get people
to sing it, you know, I paw thelaw and boom, people singing
all along.
Arthur Busch (06:56):
So let's talk about music.
Let's hear some of your music.
I think the audience wouldenjoy it.
Here's uh red piano by GeorgeWinters from Davidson, Michigan.
We'll play the song in itsentirety and come back on the
other side and talk some moreabout George's music and about
the fun music scene and whathe's learned after 50 years of
being the piano man.
George Winters (07:53):
I can tell that you felt for a fan.
(10:21):
I'll say on my ready.
(10:54):
So went to flushing high schooland you grew up in uh well
actually in Flint until 1969graduated in 1974, so I did my
high school in flushing.
Arthur Busch (11:04):
I see.
And what neighborhood did youlive in in Flint?
George Winters (11:07):
It's right on Begole Street by Melbourne.
Can I back you up a little bitjust for a second here?
Back to that Flint.
Yeah, sure.
When it went because I told youI lived on Gold Street by
Melbourne.
Well, my dad actually he whenhe came to Flint, the family
came from uh Royal Oak, and hisand he was a president of, they
moved him up to president ofPudenties, insurance guy.
(11:29):
Something happened, businesswasn't doing as good as they
expect.
They wanted firing them.
They didn't do him, they didhim wrong.
Anyhow, my dad was a greatpiano player.
He went and he got a jobselling organs.
He loved organs, you know,anyhow.
So he brings home an organ andhe sets it in the living room
and he's all proud of it.
He's got this new job.
He's like, I can have anybodyplaying both hands and a foot in
(11:50):
five minutes.
He says, You come here, and Iwas the baby of the family.
So he sat me down.
And uh, anyhow, I couldn't doit.
I couldn't do it.
So I kept doing it anyhow.
I'll I'll finish this before Iget to the other part, but I I
couldn't do it, so I kind of lethim down.
I felt bad, I guess.
And he left the thing there,and I just kept messing with it.
Pretty soon I was getting so Iwas getting the hang of it.
(12:10):
One day I'm like, Hey, yeah,come here, look at this.
He's like, turned it on andstarted jamming.
He's like, Oh, okay.
But so then he anyhow, the thepoint of the story I'm trying to
take this to is he wound upgetting uh taken over the
Hammond Orchestra, which was onChevrolet and Mackin.
And that was a very uh hobnobfor uh Hammond B3s were the big
(12:31):
thing in the late 60s, early70s.
All the rock bands had them.
The bands that came to town,the IMA and stuff would they
would their manager would get ahold of my dad, he'd run them a
B3.
We got to see a lot of bandsbackstage.
Jethro Tall.
We thought they were done withtheir concert.
We ran back there to get the mybrothers and me and my
girlfriend at the time.
We run back there to get theB3, and all them guys are
(12:54):
sitting around kind of lookingat us like, Who are these guys?
And we just froze, you know.
And then all of a sudden, theystarted playing their second set
we watched from backstage, andthat was incredible.
Anyhow, I love Jeff O'Toole.
Uh, my dad came home one nightwith this story.
He says, Yes, hippie come in.
He says, He's really classy,hippie.
He says, He says, He had aponytail, he said he had a
(13:16):
sideburns, came down to hischin.
He says, So you want to see aB3, and a B3 was like 3,500
bucks, plus you had to buy aLeslie was another thousand
bucks or whatever, 900, youknow.
And uh, I want to see what hegoes, yeah, right over here.
And he says, the guy turned iton and bought it like a pack of
cigarettes.
He said, Have you ever heard ofGrand Punk Railroad?
At the time, I'd heard of them.
They weren't really famous inFlint yet, you know.
(13:39):
He goes, Well, the guy boughtthis thing, we're gonna deliver
it.
You want to you want to go withus?
I'm like, sure, you know.
So we went to Mark Farner'shouse out in London.
It was outside of town, justoff London road.
But anyhow, went in there,brought that B3 out there.
When we pulled in the driveway,this guy came out of the house.
He's a big after, he's aboutnine foot tall, and you know,
(14:00):
got in his link in and took off.
It was Don Brewer.
I didn't know that at the time,but he was so under such a
distinct looking character.
I just still see him in mymind.
But anyhow, we went in thereand met Mark Farner, and he got
that B3, and we brought it overthere.
And as soon as we left, hestarted playing and he he broke
footstone for music.
Danny McClain was an organplayer, and I was big time into
(14:23):
uh baseball.
But anyhow, my dad uh uh saysto me, Denny McClain McClain is
coming to town at the IMA forsomething, I'm gonna go meet
him.
And I kind of laughed.
I'm like, yeah, right.
You know, good luck that, youknow.
Next day he has the guy at myhouse, okay.
And oh, Denny McClain.
And I had him my mit.
And Denny wasn't that friendlyto me, to be honest with you,
remember.
I was like, okay, whatever.
Arthur Busch (14:44):
Now, Denny McClain was often seen playing at the
Shorthorn Lounge in Flint's onDort Highway near court.
Did you ever play that lounge?
George Winters (14:55):
I did.
In fact, uh, more after it,after it was done, uh, you know,
after the heyday, I playedthere a little bit.
In fact, the guy that owned it,he had taken it back a couple
times.
And I told him, I said, I'dlove to own a club like this.
I wish I had a little moremoney, you know.
And he goes, you know what?
He says, I I I like the idea ofan entertainer owning this
place.
He says, uh, I might just likesell you this place, let you pay
(15:16):
me out until he started tellingme some of the numbers that it
used to do, and they're amazing.
Arthur Busch (15:21):
George, how did you first get interested in
music?
Was it the story with the organor was it something something
else?
George Winters (15:28):
Yeah, I think it was that, and I don't know why
I I I often have scratched myhead to why I glued to it like I
did, but I just I it was when Iwas really young, like back
then, that was middle sixties.
Uh, it was it was organ andbaseball.
That was my two things, youknow.
Arthur Busch (15:46):
So, George, let's listen to a different one of
your songs with a moodsynthesizer and your Hammond B3
organ.
This one's called Heaven sincewe're talking about flip.
George, you uh have spannedquite a long time.
(19:22):
You said you've been a musicianfor 50 years, and I can only
think of a few others that arestill at it.
So I think that Jimmy Zimbo,who's also out there still
trotting around with his fingerson the keyboards, Bob Ado, who
don't know what this too is.
George Winters (19:36):
Jimmy is actually working for a company
that I've been doing sales for.
He went down there and helping.
I've been selling piano shells.
Uh, I don't know if you knowwhat a piano shell is.
It looks it's furniture, itlooks like a piano.
You put a keyboard in it, theymake different sizes, and we've
been selling them all over theworld.
And when I got off the road, Itell you, I was on the road for
like five years solid.
(19:57):
I was kind of looking forsomething.
He offered me a job selling forhim, and I I didn't think it
was gonna turn into much thing,and it's just kind of taking
off.
Arthur Busch (20:05):
You played a lot of joints in the Flint area over
those 50 years, if that's whatit is.
Yes, tell me your favorites.
George Winters (20:12):
You know, I think I I love Bosleys, I really
love Bosleys.
That was like a home, and DougBosley was uh such a great guy
to me.
I mean, I could can't even tellyou he was like he looked out
for me like nobody really everdid in that kind of business,
you know, for that long.
That's amazing.
I had raised my familybasically working for him and
also for John too at thespeakeasy.
(20:34):
He was also very cool, and umtalking about John and Marianne
Barnadelli and flushing, yes, atthe speakeasy that was a great
spot, it was.
Yes, and and and I love thempeople too, they're just super
good.
Arthur Busch (20:47):
There's gotta be some old ones, like maybe the
fireside, yeah.
George Winters (20:50):
Like you, you know, I was just funny you said
that because that's what I wasgonna say next.
And actually, I played at thefireside and the Bob Badato trio
back in the 70s.
Uh yeah, in fact, in fact, andtoo, another thing about Bob
just I mean, he's always beenone of my heroes, and one of my
favorite sax players.
In fact, I did an uh album thathad him play sax on it, and
(21:11):
it's worldwide.
You can dial it in anywhere andcheck it out.
Arthur Busch (21:14):
We didn't talk about one of my favorites of all
time, which is Jimmy Lump'sAloha Lounge.
Did you ever play that one?
George Winters (21:20):
You know what?
I never really I think I didplay a couple off nights, I
think.
About I've forgotten that, butI used to go in there, it was
just a cool place.
You know, you're talking abouthow things you mentioned earlier
about you know, how things arethey are and I see to me, it's
not like that at all.
It used to be where you playsomeplace six nights a week,
have a house gig, they call it.
And some of these guys stillwant to do that.
(21:41):
They're like, hey, we shouldget together and have a house
gig.
I don't they don't do thatanymore.
It just doesn't happen.
Arthur Busch (21:48):
Why isn't it popular anymore?
George Winters (21:50):
I think if you want my take, I'm just a piano
player and got my own littlepoint of view, but I just think
times change and and people werereally into live music for a
long time.
And I know, like, I had mytrailer worked on, and it was
right by this country bar out inthe decline, and I drove by
there and they turned it into adispensary.
So I I mentioned it to this kidthat was working on my he said,
(22:12):
Did you ever go there?
And and he's like, uh, no, hesays, I never went there.
He says, My dad did that kindof stuff.
I've never been in that at all.
And that's I think that theyounger generation is a lot like
that.
They've never bought an albumbecause they stream it.
Another thing is what wasreally fascinating, I got
remarried out almost 20 yearsago.
My wife had daughters.
(22:33):
I took them on a field tripdown to Sloan Museum, and I
hadn't been there since I was akid, and I was fascinated.
I couldn't, they want run runthrough the place.
I'm reading everything abouthow Flint became a boom town.
You know, people moved up herefrom the south to be get rich in
the in the auto plant.
You know, I mean, just thingswere a lot different.
Things were it seems like youalways knew somebody, just about
(22:57):
everybody was affiliated withsomebody that worked for General
Motors.
You know, it's just thatbecause I thought all right
then.
Arthur Busch (23:04):
Let's take just a moment to one stretch your legs.
This one's an up tempo songcalled Lucky by George Winters
of Davison, Michigan.
George Winters (25:02):
It was a great time.
It was a nice mix, too, becausebetween Flint and Flushing.
Arthur Busch (25:07):
What is it about flushing?
Because people do really loveflushing.
I don't ever talk to anybodywho says, Oh, it sucks.
I can tell you what I likeabout flushing, which is the AW.
Okay.
You got good popcorn, andthere's something about their
hot dogs I really like.
George Winters (25:21):
And the room is not bad either.
Maybe it was the time, it wasjust a cool place.
Going to school there, therewas a guy that was the art
teacher.
Yeah, Wolfgang was his name.
Everybody knew that guy,Richard Wolfgang.
Everybody knew him, but he wasa great guy.
He motivated a lot of music.
He was really into music, heplayed banjo.
We'd have jam sessions.
(25:42):
I think I think I did have him,I did take one art class, but
even when I wasn't his class, hehad me bring a piano down on
Friday sometimes and just jam,you know.
Arthur Busch (25:51):
When he retired from flushing, eventually he
ended up in a gallery, bought agallery on Mackinac Island.
Wolfgang did the posters forthe Mackinac Lila Festival.
They're collector's items now.
George Winters (26:04):
To his place there, his gallery, actually, a
few times.
And what was really interestingtoo is he had like you're
talking about, he made the thethe artwork he did for up there,
and I come back down here and Iseen it like where the holiday
innocent or the gateway holidayin there in Hill Road.
They had it hanging in there,and I seen it a few other places
too.
(26:24):
It was just amazing, you know.
It's like uh it's almost likeseeing Craig Frost, you know,
music tours, you know, round thepre stuff, which was kind of
cool because I knew that guyback way back when, you know,
but he played with Bob Seeker.
Arthur Busch (26:37):
So besides growing up in flushing, you've played
in a lot of places around thecountry.
What when you tell peopleyou're from Flint, what do they
have to say about that?
George Winters (26:45):
Well, that's actually what I was gonna say a
minute ago.
So I was out west.
I hate to say it, but you know,I got traveled with this one
guy from Phoenix, and you know,people say, Where are you guys
from?
Well, I'm from Flint, you know,because you want to you don't
want to say Davidson or Flushingor something, because they
mostly never heard of it.
Yeah, but you say Flint, ohokay, where are you from?
Phoenix.
They just they just grab it,they turn they'd ignore me a lot
(27:08):
of times, you know, it's likeyou're from Flint, but you know,
and then they joke a lot tooabout the water, you know.
You got good water?
Yeah, I have a well.
Arthur Busch (27:16):
Dueling piano thing.
I first found out about that inSan Antonio, Texas on the
riverwalk.
George Winters (27:23):
I've been there, beautiful place, but the
concepts spread around thecountry, like most of the piano
bars, like Rum Runners Down toLance, right by right across
from where the lug nuts played.
It was like very high trafficarea, JD's key club down to
Pontiac.
It was when downtown Pontiacwas really booming, and there's
a lot of people there, justpopulation coming in from all
(27:45):
the little suburbs.
It wasn't really Pontiacpeople, but so and the same
thing with Mojo still does goodout in uh Grand Rapids because
they have the right demographic.
I didn't play down there muchwhen I was young, a little bit,
but mostly I got I got to knowthe city a lot more in my older
age, like after the speakeasydays, even especially doodle and
(28:05):
pianos, because that kind oftook off, you know.
And there's a few places thatopened up.
We used to do another one onHaggerty and Fort 14 Mile.
It's called Good Fellows.
And uh, and that place jammed.
It was big and it was packedall the time.
I remember the owner was asuper nice guy, he was a
builder, he made his moneybuilding.
He bought that place, and hesays, he says, You want to make
(28:26):
a lot of money, don't buy a dueland piano.
I'm looking around.
I don't understand, you know,you get a cover charge, you
know.
Arthur Busch (28:34):
A lot of the musicians I talk to, and he and
even ones that are knownnationally, they do a lot of
these gigs like you're talkingabout.
Once they reach a certain age,they don't really want to play
clubs if they can avoid it.
And so they start playinghouses and house parties and
garden parties and all that.
Is that a natural progression?
George Winters (28:52):
Maybe, and especially with the way things
have gone.
Like I say, it's not like thelive music isn't five, six
nights a week.
People don't just go to see itlike that.
But there is still, I thinksince the shutdown, people have
realized they want to do, theyjust want to live life more,
they want to go see it.
Um, it's been playing thesepiano shows, and it's nothing to
do with me because duelingpianos is not personal.
(29:14):
It's they'll say, we're gonnasell do we're gonna have a
dueling piano gig.
It could be any two guys,really.
So it's you know, I can'treally take the credit for
selling them out.
It's not because of me, it'sdueling pianos, it's uh shtick,
you know, and people like it.
It's fun.
Arthur Busch (29:28):
Yeah, no, some of those people that are dueling
pianos, they start dancingaround on top of their pianos
and all kinds of crazy stuff.
George Winters (29:34):
Yeah, that's an interesting thing you brought up
because when I was working atRum Runners, uh, I asked some
people one night, some of therecorders, I said, Who do you
think's a good piano player?
I'm just curious.
And they they named off acouple people.
I said, I didn't think theywere that good, but I, you know,
I comparatively speaking, youknow, on a music level,
whatever.
But I said, Why do you likethem?
And they said, Well, I like theone guy because he gets up on
(29:57):
top of the piano.
But you know, people.
They listen with their eyes.
So if you can give them a show,that's kind of you know, it's a
showy thing.
It's just not a personal thing.
It's like I can do this, youknow, command and do the song
and do the command and get theaudience to do that.
You can do it.
Joe Blow can do it.
Anyone can do it.
It's just if you do it right,it works.
(30:19):
So it's a formula kind ofthing, and it's not personal.
It's not, I went from playingBosley, speak easy, playing a
lot of dinner music.
You know, my hands were in goodshape when I got into it.
I'd play licks that you knowwould impress me and nobody
would even notice.
Not even, they just wouldn'teven notice.
But as soon as you startreally, you know, doing this
kind of stuff, you know, they'relike, Oh, look at this, look at
(30:40):
this guy, you know, it could bejust one note.
You know.
Arthur Busch (30:45):
So the the performative part of this
business that you've gottenyourself into, you're pretty
good at.
You were always a little moreperformative than some of them
other guys.
Although, I mean, you takewatch a guy like Zimbo, he knows
how to work the crowd.
George Winters (30:57):
He has a knack with people and a great voice.
Well, it's funny because we'vegot a little bit in a
competition because he's thereand I'm here, you know, I know
he sings great and all that.
People, a lot of people mightnot realize him and me actually
traveled in a rock and roll bandbefore any of that stuff
happened.
I've no uh it's like I haveanother lifetime before with you
know before all that stuff evenhappened, you know, and he was
(31:20):
part of it.
Arthur Busch (31:21):
You're from Flint, you've seen a lot of changes
over the years.
You've gone from some of theheydays of the rock bands from
Flint.
We didn't talk much about yourrock your experience as a rock
star, but um you've seen a lotof things come and go.
Mostly it was going for GeneralMotors, and that changed
significantly.
How did General Motors goingchange Flint and a music scene
(31:42):
as far as you were concerned?
George Winters (31:43):
Uh I just think that uh the money was not there
anymore.
People didn't have thesecurity, the money, a lot of
people left town.
I mean, the the population hasdiminished quite a bit, I think.
Plus, along with the timeschanging too, like I say, people
now.
If you ever go in a bar, too,you ever notice that most of
them have like 25 TVs everywhereyou look, and they got cage
(32:07):
fighting, they got hockey, theygot just it's all action.
It's hard to people don't seemto.
I think that between theirphones and all that stuff, it's
harder for them to focus.
Arthur Busch (32:18):
George winners, I really appreciate taking the
time to talk to me.
Goodbye for now.
All .
Thank you very much.
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