November 18, 2024 • 37 mins
This episode touches on some difficult topics including challenges impacting the queer community, and youth suicide. If you or someone you know is struggling with difficult conversations or mental health, please check out the resources below.
Ashara Wills is the visionary force behind Let’s Queer The Air—a transformative business that fosters understanding and inclusion through authentic dialogue and engagement. A multicultural queer woman and a passionate advocate for environments where everyone can thrive, Ashara brings over a decade of experience in diversity, equity, and inclusion across multiple sectors.
Ashara's influence extends beyond boardrooms—she has also made waves in Australian Rules Football (AFL). As a driving force behind the West Coast Eagles' AFLW team and the club’s first registered female coach, she has broken barriers in a traditionally male-dominated arena, leaving an indelible mark on the sport and inspiring future generations.
Ashara would love to connect with businesses and organisations who are passionate about improving DEI within their workforce. If you or someone you know is looking for fun, engaging and compelling educational programs that go beyond just 'box ticking', check out Let's Queer the Air.
----- Resources ------
Lifeline Australia
Providing all Australians experiencing a personal crisis with access to 24-hour crisis support.
24/7 Crisis Support Line - 13 11 14
Website for resources or text chat - www.lifeline.org.au/
QLife
QLife provides anonymous LGBTIQ+ peer support and referral for people wanting to talk about sexuality, identity, gender, bodies, feelings or relationships.
National Helpline (3PM to midnight, every day) - 1800 184 527
Website for resources or text chat - https://qlife.org.au/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hi Rafters, before this episode begins, we just
want to share a content warningwith you.
This episode touches on somedifficult topics, including
challenges impacting the queercommunity and youth suicide.
If any of that is triggering foryou, catch us back up in the
next episode.
Otherwise, it's a really greatchat and we hope you'll get a
lot out of it.
As usual, this episode containsadult language and concepts.
UNKNOWN (00:28):
Music Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
For centuries we've been told that women are each
other's worst enemies, but inreality we're more like otters
than queen bees.
Female otters, bitches if youwill, join hands with each other
to create rafts that stop themfrom drifting apart and losing
each other while they're asleep.
Thriving women have one thing incommon, they have a tight-knit
circle of other women who helpthem get there by providing
information and support.
(00:57):
Join us each episode as we shinea light on an amazing woman and
give her a platform to sharewith us her story, her passion
and the Raft of Bitches supportsupporting her.
Hi everyone and welcome to Raftof Bitches.
Today I'm here with my co-hostRicky Barnes who was once ranked
number 46 in the world for BMX.
(01:20):
That's right, never got anyhigher because it was a bit hard
to compete in Australia.
It's that kind of, you know, ifyou want to make it big you've
really got to go to the US.
And my co-host today is Jo whoonce went to the US for three
weeks.
She had washed every singlepiece of clothing and yet it
still had some of her cat's furon it.
And today we are joined byAshara Wills and Ashara is going
(01:42):
to be talking to us a little bitabout the intersectionality
between women and the queercommunity.
Ashara is a multiculturalprofessional who has worked
through the ups and downs,curves and corners of being
queer from a young age.
She has established a strongfoundation of support through
her family, friends and networkswhile also surrounding herself
(02:02):
in the community servicessector.
Ashara has always been anadvocate of the LGBTIQA plus
community by engaging inmeaningful conversations,
passing on knowledge, consultingwith the community and
continually embracingdifferences.
That's a mouthful.
Welcome, Ashara.
SPEAKER_01 (02:19):
Thank you.
And I apologize.
The
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
mouthful, the intro.
Please.
It's actually a little bitintimidating.
Very impressive.
All right.
We've got an icebreaker.
Let's get straight into it.
Ashara, your icebreaker thatyou've chosen today is your
favorite quote.
Tell us your favorite
SPEAKER_01 (02:35):
quote?
Favorite quote is feel the fearand do it anyway.
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (02:40):
I love it.
Is it by a specific person?
SPEAKER_01 (02:42):
I actually don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (02:44):
That's one of those ones that goes around, isn't it?
That you see everywhere, but youdon't necessarily know who
originated it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:51):
Yeah, 100%.
And whoever the original quotais, fantastic work.
SPEAKER_00 (02:56):
Why does that mean so much to you?
What have you really embracedabout that?
SPEAKER_01 (03:00):
So when I was younger, I constantly had fear
of communicating with people,meeting people, public speaking,
selling, all of that sort ofstuff.
And then I came across thequote, which was feel the fear
and do it anyway.
So feeling the fear ofnetworking with people, meeting
people, going outside yourcomfort zone.
So essentially, that was thequote that I read.
(03:21):
And that was a game changer forme because it's we're always
going to understand that it'sgoing to be scary to meet people
scary to you know be on thestage and public speak you're
always going to have the fear ofgiving your authentic story or
trying to persuade someoneyou're going into a high
pressure situation you're alwaysgoing to feel that fear that's
not going to change but what'sgoing to change is you not
(03:43):
taking action So if that fear isgoing to stop you from saying
hello to someone at a networkingevent that could potentially
unlock financial doors, unlockcontracting, unlock connections,
then that is something that'sgoing to hold you back.
But if you go and say hello tosomeone, start a conversation,
feel that nervousness, it couldresult in positive things.
(04:03):
Same thing with, you know,sharing your story or public
speaking.
If you don't have a story thatsomeone can connect with in the
crowd that can go, oh my gosh,That's me.
That's what I'm experiencing.
I need to look into this alittle bit more.
And it could be game changingfor them.
The role models that I've had inmy past have really helped me.
And so I kind of want to do thatfor the rest of us.
(04:24):
But we all get that feeling,right?
Of like, you know, performersget it.
You know, I reckon CEOs, anyone,you get that feeling.
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
I love that.
Can I ask, is it now easy foryou?
Or is it still feeling the fear?
And you're doing it anyway.
SPEAKER_01 (04:40):
I would say it's a lot easier, but I still at some
events and some public speakingengagements, some training
sessions where I'm like, whoa.
okay, you know, doing the heavybreathings at the start, doing
the mindfulness experiences andexercises to really get me in
the zone.
But in terms of networkingevents, it's kind of like, it's
not really a game.
(05:01):
It's not the word that I'mlooking for, but it's kind of
like, I'm excited, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
It's so funny you say that because I grew up doing
a lot of performing arts.
I've been dancing since I wasfour.
My mum used to say to me,because I used to get a little
bit of stage fright, but sheused to always say to me, fear
and excitement are the exactsame thing.
You've just got to flip it inyour head and turn that fear
into excitement.
I feel exactly the same when Igo on stage.
(05:25):
I'm like, I'm not scared.
I'm excited.
My body just thinks they're thesame thing.
A
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
hundred percent.
And you're almost like, who canI meet tonight?
Or like, who am I going to talkto?
Who's going to share their storyand is going to unlock things?
Like, who am I going to connectwith?
And who am I going to build mynetworks with?
And for me, that's exciting.
So I would say, I think now mybrain understands the
differences, just like youmentioned, Jo.
But yeah, again, there's stillsome events I was just at a
(05:50):
LGBTQA plus executive fellowshipwhere I'm sitting in a room full
of heads of Google, heads ofMicrosoft, university deans, you
know, you name it, people from,you know, heads of like Mervac
and stuff.
And I'm just kind of sittingthere going, I feel like I'm a
fish out of water here.
But then slowly people justcoming up to me and just saying,
I'm so glad you're on the coursethat you have just such a
(06:12):
different way of leadership.
You know, it's so good.
And to me, that was reallyvalidating.
And it was the only WA personthere as well.
So just stuff like that whereyou kind of go, OK, that's a big
moment.
I'm in a big room of big people.
How am I going to contribute?
And yeah, that validation comeswith it, which is pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00 (06:30):
That's fantastic.
Can I ask you about yourleadership style?
What is your leadership style?
Where did you get started inleadership?
SPEAKER_01 (06:38):
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (06:38):
that's
SPEAKER_01 (06:38):
a really good question.
I can't pinpoint exactly when itstarted.
Probably when I was in primaryschool and I just had a lot to
say.
And I always thought I wasright.
You know, just that naivety of alittle child being like, you
know, I can change the worldand...
what I say is correct.
And obviously that's not veryoften and that's okay to me.
(07:00):
So I think leadership for mestarted into sport.
So when I was younger, alwayswanting to be, you know, the
sport captain or win any of thetrophies and all that sort of
stuff, because I wanted to bringmy peers with me.
And that's my, when you askabout my leadership style, that
is a hundred percent.
It's how do I bring the peoplearound me with me on this
journey and how do I upliftthem?
(07:22):
I don't think there's any wrongtype of leadership.
In fact, there's so manyleadership styles out there and
nobody can agree on what aleadership style is.
If you take risks and you bringpeople along with you, I think
to me that's the best sort ofleadership.
And so I think I found thatthrough sport.
SPEAKER_00 (07:37):
Speaking of leadership, Ashara, I heard a
rumour that you were the firstfemale and first queer AFLW
registered coach for the WestCoast Eagles.
SPEAKER_01 (07:48):
So yes, rumour is true.
I had a fantastic opportunity in2017 where I was working, well
not working, but wasvolunteering as one of the state
AFL coaches for the women'ssquad at the time and was loving
it.
And I actually met Adam Selwood,who was working working in the
community space within the WestCoast Eagles.
And, you know, was just sharingmy story with him.
(08:09):
And, you know, I was a big fangrowing up, watching him play
and also his brothers.
But being a West Coast Eaglesfan, him, told him that I was
multicultural and all that sortof stuff.
So an opportunity came acrosshis desk, which was the AFL Alec
Jadzolenko internship, where itwas around bringing
multicultural people into AFLcoaching experiences to really
(08:30):
catalyst their career and getthem into coaching.
So he said, would you like to doit?
I said, yeah, absolutely.
Would love to do it.
And so met the general managerand some other heads of West
Coast Eagles.
And they said, I think it wouldbe bloody brilliant if we had
the first registered AFL coachand it be you.
And I obviously said yes.
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
Fantastic.
Can I ask you to talk a bit moreabout what it has meant for you
to be not just a woman, not justqueer, but also multicultural in
a place like Australia?
SPEAKER_01 (09:02):
Yeah.
Yeah, very good one.
So I have uncles that don't talkto me just because, you know,
you can't be queer, that's seenas being an abomination and
something wrong with you and,you know, you can just change
your mind, like this is a choicethat you're making.
So for me that has a compoundingexperience because there are
things that I miss out on justdue to my sexuality and for me
(09:24):
it's not something I can turnoff and on.
When we talk aboutmulticulturalism, there are very
few safe places and spaceswithin society any sort of
multicultural areas where youcan be your authentic self, like
being queer to the forefront,let alone being a woman.
There's definitely a lot ofcultural, I would say norms that
you, you know, you can't talk toa man, a man has to talk to a
(09:46):
man and a woman has to not sayanything, you know, be seen, but
not be heard sort of thing.
So having that compounding queerexperience, being a woman and
then multiculturalism as a wholehas been quite challenging at
times, but also I've been ableto change the dial a little bit.
So it when talking to people,like I was part of the Ozspire
Multicultural LeadershipProgram, and I sat around at a
(10:08):
table and it was sort of justthe elephant in the room.
They were talking about pride,they were talking about people's
experiences and how leadersreally unlock that.
And I just sort of said, youknow, we're all sort of sitting
around the table, but we're notbringing up something that's
really kind of my passion, whichis why do multicultural leaders
abandon the LGBTQIA pluscommunity?
(10:28):
Why is it?
We all say that, you know, thisperson does great, there's this
person does great at that but assoon as they come out it's like
you wash your hands of it andyou're like I never want to see
you again and for some peoplethat's really hard like that's
their support network right sothey end up living a lie or what
we call in our community maskingwhere they become someone
they're not in order to fit inand I just kind of want to
(10:49):
advocate for that and say youknow why is it because of norms
that you've just been aroundyou've never questioned it
because the world has advancedso much you know we we've moved
on And that was a really robustconversation.
And it was so great becausesomebody else in the course, you
know, actually said, actually, Ithink I need to step in.
I was like, oh, no, here we go.
We're going to get someone who'sjust going to take it off.
(11:10):
But they actually said, I'm aqueer X, Y and Z.
And I haven't been that upfrontand honest ever, but I'm going
to bring it to this tablebecause it's something that we
need to talk about.
And actually just said, I 100%agree with Ashara.
I've never come out because ofthis, but I felt that this was a
great place to actually come outand tell people my story because
you all just assume that I'mstraight or I'm heterosexual or
(11:31):
whatever, but that's not mylife.
I'm seen as a multiculturalleader.
And it was just a beautifulconversation.
So that's kind of like myexperience.
That intersectionality is notletting things go by, not saying
anything.
but actually bringing it up tothe forefront and saying, hey,
why?
Like challenging people, but ina respectful way.
It's not like you suck.
It's why?
And be curious about things.
SPEAKER_00 (11:51):
Fantastic.
I know you spent some timevolunteering with Pride WA and
during that time you wereinvolved with organising some
events to kind of promote theintersectionality there.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about what happened in that
space?
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I was on the board ofmanagement, which is essentially
just your board for a charityand or not for profit.
I rocked up because they wantedto be able to communicate and
network and be able to get thebuy-in from young people.
And at the time I was workingvery heavily with young people.
I think I still consideredmyself as a young person, even
(12:25):
though I was above 25.
And they said, yeah, you'll begreat.
Let's do it.
I just remember going, is thisreally what you want?
Or should we try and open up thescope a little bit?
And given that I'm a veryvisible female in a board of all
men and cisgendered gay men, howdo we change the dial on that?
Or how do we change thedynamics?
And one thing that I always sawwith Pride WA is they do
(12:47):
fantastic events and they do alot of things for our community,
but it was really based aroundone particular type of
community, which was cisgendergay men.
And I see where it's come frombecause you have to
self-nominate to be able to be apart of the board.
But I just thought if you'regoing to change something, you
can't do it from the outside,you could do it from the inside.
I mean, you can do a bit ofboth, but something that I could
offer was definitely inside.
(13:08):
And so I remember a couple of myfirst sessions at the board
table was being really upfrontand honest and just going, you
know, this is all great, butwho's our audience?
And they'll just, oh, just queerpeople.
But what does that mean?
You know, just being reallycurious, like a phrase that I
learned from a really goodfriend, Amber Anthony, if you
haven't heard of her, she'sgreat.
You're a spicy, shout out.
(13:29):
And she said, be curious, notfurious.
So it's always like, I'm feelingfurious because to me, you're
just like, they're just queerpeople.
Do you even know what thatmeans?
Instead of getting angry aboutit, just going, yeah, yeah.
But what does that mean?
Can you let me know?
And they started to rattle off afew things and it was okay but
how about transgender people howabout our suffix how about our
asexual community how about ourpansexual community you know
(13:49):
really open it up and they go ohwe didn't even realize they were
part of our community no shameon them and no judgment because
again you have to put up yourhand to nominate for these sort
of things but it just goes toshow in our community we don't
really have it all organized andall set up as well and so I did
have to do a whole business casearound an event for women I did
a whole bunch of networking andconsulting with the community so
(14:10):
suffix to understand what is itthey want.
The things that highlightedactually was something that
wasn't at a nightclub.
A lot of our events are atnightclubs.
It's loud.
It's hard to talk to people.
You can't really connect unlessyou're drinking.
So a whole part of our communitywouldn't be able to attend, like
people who have sensorychallenges and then also people
who don't drink.
And we landed on a Sundaysession at a brewery.
(14:32):
So people who want to have adrink because they might be
socially a bit anxious, theycould do that.
But also it's a big place, likeit's a nice big warehouse.
So it's not too much overloadwith noise and music and still
had some entertainment.
So Hops With Her was created andthe name stemmed from the venue.
So the venue was Nowhere ManBrewing.
So you get it like Nowhere Manbecause it's a sapphics event.
(14:53):
And that caught on really well.
And we had just diversity.
We had young people.
We had people from differentcultures, even different
religions.
We had corporate people to yourreal, like just your whole
blend.
I was really, really proud ofthat because it brought a whole
different dynamic to Pride WA.
And I made sure I spoke topretty much every single person.
We had over 200 people in thevenue and I wanted to understand
(15:14):
their thoughts around Pride WA.
Half of them didn't even knowwho it was.
They had no idea what they didfor our community, didn't
understand a lot of thosethings.
So I brought awareness to thatside of things and also
encouraged them to get involved.
Others were a bit disgruntledaround Pride WA.
There's some history there.
But after having a chat withthem, they really got involved
and I hope that I have left abit of a legacy with Pride WA
(15:35):
because now you look at it andit is diverse.
You know, you do haverepresentation from different
genders and you do have eventsthat have that inclusivity lens
so things that are held likepicnics or like play groups and
you know families instead of itbeing a party and always be seen
as a party it's like no this canbe a family thing too and then
now with the you know advocacyand bits and pieces that they're
(15:57):
doing it's just really cool tosee that I might have been a
little part of that that change
SPEAKER_00 (16:01):
yeah great what do you think are some of the
barriers for people wanting toenter that space so you know you
said it was a board full of menwhat are the barriers I guess
specific specifically for women,trans women, cis women, that
stop them from getting moreinvolved?
SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
I think it's the lack of representation.
When we work with Aboriginal andTorres Strait Islander people,
so mob, as well as multiculturalpeople, they always gravitate
towards each other, right?
Because there's that sense ofcommonality.
You know, if I walked into aroom full of people, I would
gravitate to people who looklike me, people who sound like
me.
I mean, you can spot the queersfrom a mile away, right?
And you go and you gravitatetowards them.
(16:38):
Or somebody who had the samesort of colour of skin as me.
And that's just what we do.
Right.
Because that's that's we feelcomfortable.
We feel like we can have thingsin common.
So I think that's the biggestbarrier is that lack of
visibility.
So people go, oh, that can neverbe me because that doesn't look
like me.
That doesn't sound like me.
I have no way in.
And the way that I actually gotonto the board was through a
(16:58):
connection that I was doing somework with.
And he was like, you'rephenomenal.
I want you to come be a part ofPride WA board.
And I was like, there's no way Icould do that.
That was literally my reactionwas there's no way I could do
that.
And he goes, it absolutely is.
You just have to nominate andyou'll come on board.
We'll set up meetings.
We'll do this.
We'll do that.
So I think that's the biggestbarrier.
Whereas now, as soon as youstart seeing people who are
different and publiclydifferent, you know, they're
(17:20):
visible at events.
They speak on behalf of things.
They, you know, really go theirway.
You then have a sense of if theycan do it, I can do it.
SPEAKER_00 (17:28):
Being the raft of bitches, we're talking a lot
about women supporting women.
Something that often getsoverlooked is the importance of
allies.
You mentioned that the personthat got you onto the board of
Pride WA was a male person.
Totally.
So super important.
I'm going to
SPEAKER_01 (17:47):
talk about two different things and they're
going to merge together.
So hang with me here.
So I just want to talk about howwe became connected.
I was employed at the City ofStirling as a youth development
officer.
And one thing that was justcoming out of all the statistics
that I was looking at was thehigh levels of depression and
(18:08):
suicide around LGBTQA plus youngpeople.
And particularly in Australia,in WA, hardly any stats, but
there was a report that came outfrom the Youth Affairs Council
during COVID, which highlightedLGBTQA plus people feeling the
most vulnerable and the mostisolated.
So I pushed for a program forLGBTQA plus young people in the
(18:29):
city of Stirling and finallykicked it off, got all the
approvals, all that sort ofstuff, but we needed a venue.
Now they were very, you know,oh, let's have it in a community
centre, let's have it in alibrary.
And I was like, no, that's notgoing to work.
You know, why are we having tohide our young people who are
LGBTIQA plus?
Like they should be able to goout into spaces and places and
feel like they're a valued partof society.
There was a cafe on BeaufortStreet.
(18:50):
It was right across the roadfrom the Inglewood Library and
the community centre there.
I thought, beautiful.
Bus stop just out the front,accessible to young people.
If If they need to getpermission for their parents,
they can say, oh, it's just alocal library community event.
And then we would walk themacross the road.
It was the best setup.
So I called the owner and I waslike, hey, so this is what we're
wanting to do.
And I never mentioned LGBTIQA+.
(19:10):
I just said young peopleprogram.
And I thought in the back of myhead, if I never say it now and
we go all the way through thisand it's, you know, someone
who's quite homophobic ordoesn't want to do it because
it's going to bring heat totheir business or whatever.
And so I said, I'm not sure ifthis is going to be something
you want to continue, but it isspecifically for LGBTIQA+.
young people.
And the phone went silent and Iwas like, oh, this is it.
(19:30):
I'm going to have to findanother venue.
And he said, do you know who Iam?
And I said, well, the last nameMatera, me being a West Coast
Eagles fan.
And I thought, oh, yep.
Well, Matera, there was a lot ofMatera brothers that played in
the West Coast Eagles and thelike.
And he said, yep, they're mybrothers.
And he said, my name's JerryMatera and I'm the senior vice
president of Pride WA.
He's like, absolutely.
(19:52):
You can have whatever you want,whatever you want to do.
Let's run with it.
I had to like kind of composemyself a little bit.
It was a perfect storm, right?
You know, it's just the venuewas great.
The community centre was great.
We had this whole system wecalled that spilled a tea, you
know, because RuPaul and likehow do we get young people into
it?
Over six months period withouthaving a fortnightly session, we
(20:13):
had over 400 young people rockup.
So that's how we got connected.
We started that together.
by working with each other, byme being my authentic self, him
being his authentic self aswell, we were able to create
something really great.
And then through that otheropportunities arisen.
So remember I was going back tofeel the fear and do it anyway,
phone call, feeling the fear,but I did it anyway.
(20:34):
And it just unlocked that.
And he sat me down.
He's like, we need you at PrideWA.
Would you like to do it?
Is it something that you want tobe a part of?
I said, yes, absolutely.
Let's make it happen.
But again, it takes a bit ofbravery on his side of things
because for him, he's got awhole board that sound like him.
They're all cisgendered gay men.
And he's going to bring someonein who's completely different.
(20:55):
He's taken a chance on me.
So I think that allies take arisk and we don't really see
that.
We just go, well, that's whatthey should do, right?
Like, you know, diversity,inclusion, equity.
You should have that lens.
But when we actually look at it,you're taking a risk.
So yeah, that's how I basicallygot involved with Pride WA and
then eventually took his spotwhen he left and I became senior
(21:15):
vice president, which is like, Ithink now they call it vice
chair and was that for twoyears.
So it was pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00 (21:21):
Amazing.
Any advice for someone who wantsto be a good ally?
SPEAKER_01 (21:24):
Yeah.
Fear the fear and do it anyway.
I keep coming back to it, buthonestly, it's you're going to
get leaps and bounds from takingthat risk and being an ally and
being someone who wants tosupport somebody.
So I would say feel the fear anddo it anyway, because if you
don't do something, then you'rejust going to be assumed as not
being an ally.
(21:44):
We saw it with the marriageequality plebiscite where the
people who were quite silentabout it I mean, me, myself, I
just assumed everybody wasagainst it, right?
But we knew that theoverwhelming majority who were
silent about it were actuallysupportive.
But it was such a bad thing togo through because you just
assumed that no one wearing likea rainbow badge, I know it
sounds ridiculous, but how itwas, that you just assumed we're
(22:06):
going to vote no.
SPEAKER_00 (22:07):
Can I ask you, flip side on that, what does it look
like to be a bad ally?
Are there things that peopleshould not do?
SPEAKER_01 (22:14):
Ah, yes.
The one that's doing it forthemselves.
So what I often see is genuineallyship where someone wants to
really help and then you've gotallyship masked as this is going
to help me and benefit me andonce I've done what I need to do
with that person or thatcommunity or that group, see you
later.
You know, it's got me to my nextpromotion or it's got me talking
(22:37):
to this person that I reallywanted to speak to.
And only through thatconnection, I was able to get
there.
That's bad allyship.
SPEAKER_00 (22:43):
I think in the queer community, there's also an
aspect of a lot of allies, butonly for the bits that they feel
comfortable with.
And being, as you said,intersectional, especially in
the queer community wherethere's a lot of people who are
marginalized is super important.
So acknowledging that you don'tknow everything and your
experience of Being queer mightnot cross over with everyone
(23:05):
else's experiences.
SPEAKER_01 (23:07):
Totally.
And we refer to that as lateralviolence.
I know that a lot of minoritygroups do use that term, but in
particularly the LGBTIQA pluscommunity, because we have
diverse gender and diversesexualities within the same
community.
And we also have intersex too,which isn't quite diverse
gender, isn't quite diversesexuality, but it is a community
(23:27):
within intersex.
And yeah, we've got, you know,some terrible behaviour.
I like to hope that it's gettingbetter, but it used to be very,
you know, transphobic fromwithin.
And people sort of saying, youknow, why should we allow trans
women to compete in sport?
Because they were bad at sportwhen they were, you know, AMAB,
so assigned male at birth.
So now they're wanting to affirmtheir gender so they can get a
(23:49):
step up.
And it's just ludicrous to me.
We also have a lot of work to dointernally.
But I know that there's a lot ofminority groups have a lot of
work to do internally.
So we're not siloed in thateffect.
And I think that we need to talkabout that a little bit more.
You know, there's not onemulticultural community that
align with everything.
You always have leaders that areclashing with members.
You always have leaders that areclashing with each other.
(24:11):
Even look at our family nucleus.
You're always going to havedifferences of opinions because
we're all diverse.
So it's really important toacknowledge that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:19):
Do you think things are getting better?
Have you seen a change over theyears?
SPEAKER_01 (24:23):
Look, to be honest, before the referendum, I did see
a very clear way forward and Ifelt like, you know, oh, wow,
this is it.
This is what we call in sport,right?
A game changing moment.
And then another one happenedwhen the no vote, unfortunately,
resulted.
And then I just felt like youhad all those conservatives that
were quite hushed, actually feltthat sense of power shift, you
(24:48):
know, that power dynamic of nowcome out and being like, why are
we doing diversity and equityinclusion?
It actually has no results forus.
Why are we celebrating pride?
Why are we doing this?
Why are we doing that.
And I think that there'sdefinitely been a slide back.
So I'm just waiting for thatmoment where the dial changes
back.
But my experience personally,majority of people want to do
(25:08):
the right thing.
A majority of people are allies.
A majority of people are smartand see the benefits of being
diverse.
But it's just that sometimesthat fear stops them.
And I think that turns into theydon't care when actually they
do.
And that's why, again, thequote, you know, feel the fear
and do it anyway.
If you get someone's pronounswrong, that's okay.
(25:28):
Just correct yourself, move on.
Don't make it about yourselfbecause that interaction is so
much better than you just goingquiet about it or avoiding that
person or avoiding thosesituations where it could just
be a really beautifulconnection.
Be like, oh yeah, sorry, I meantsuch and such.
SPEAKER_00 (25:44):
That's a good segue, Ashara, into telling us a little
bit about what you do with Queerthe Air.
So do you want to just give usthe nutshell version of what
Queer the Air does?
SPEAKER_01 (25:53):
Yeah, so Let's Queer the Air is a business of mine,
an organisation.
Essentially, we run training andawareness around LGBTQIA plus
topics, as well as really funthings like drag bingo and quiz
nights where people absorbinformation without knowing that
they're learning something.
And they do it in a fun waywhere they can connect, even
though they might not want tolearn about that information,
(26:14):
but because it's fun and social,they'll get involved.
SPEAKER_00 (26:16):
The stealth approach.
The stealth approach.
SPEAKER_01 (26:19):
And we also work on diversity, equity, inclusion as
a whole.
So we've got a really great wayof doing frameworks around that.
So we see, you know, RAPs, wesee disability access inclusion
plans, we see a whole bunch offrameworks, etc.
What we do is we bring all thattogether into a diversity,
equity, inclusion framework fororganisations with
implementation plans.
(26:40):
So everything's just in onelittle neat document and that's
because intersectionality is ahuge thing for us.
So even though we're calledLet's Queer the Air, we do a
holistic approach to services.
SPEAKER_00 (26:50):
Awesome.
If you wanted to give someadvice to organisations on how
they can become morequeer-friendly and more
welcoming for people from allwalks of life what's like the
simplest number one place thatpeople could start do you think
what would be the number onepiece of advice for someone who
had no experience in this andmaybe needed to try and overcome
(27:11):
a toxic culture
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
good question I think there's no right or wrong
way of going about it becauseagain you're dealing with people
A couple of things would be becurious.
So if you know about somethinglike I have no idea about being
a mum, right, or having a kid.
But the first thing I do is jumpon a Google and Google and get
that baseline understanding.
Then when I've got a little bitof knowledge and a little bit of
(27:34):
language around it, then I mightfeel comfortable enough to ask
someone who maybe is at work ora family friend or someone who
is a family member and justreally try and get that
experience.
The second thing would be noteverybody is an open book.
So go to those places and spaceswho are.
Go towards that energy.
So someone like myself, openbook.
(27:55):
You can ask me any questions.
It takes a lot for me to getupset and to get offended.
So go to those places andspaces.
They're all online.
They're all over TikTok.
talk all over Instagram.
So go to those places first andjust be curious and just say
those sort of things like, hey,I really want to get more active
in this space.
I want to become more inclusive.
I just have nowhere to start.
You know, here's my questions.
(28:15):
Totally cool if you don't wantto answer them.
Where can I go for information?
And just knowing that ifsomebody snaps at you or doesn't
want to do that or doesn't replyto your message or whatever,
it's not a you thing.
It's maybe you've been the 15thperson that day and they just
want to have a bit of a breakand then they'll get back to you
or they might just not want totalk about it in that moment.
And that's okay.
It's just how the cookiecrumbles.
(28:36):
So go towards those people whoare active in this space.
SPEAKER_00 (28:39):
But don't let that be the end of your journey if
someone says no to you.
SPEAKER_01 (28:42):
Oh, yes.
Very good.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (28:45):
We were talking a little bit before we started
recording about your mum andyour grandma who have been
strong influences in your life,I guess.
Do you have a best piece ofadvice that they have ever given
you?
SPEAKER_01 (28:58):
Don't let being a woman stop you.
You know, I think that's why Ispoke about it because given the
topic of this podcast, it's justfantastic.
And I just role modeling off my,we call in my language, Amachi
being my grandma and my mum.
It's just, they just never letbeing a woman dictate what they
can and can't do.
So my Amachi and my Tata, mygranddad, they both were meant
(29:21):
to be in arranged marriages, butthey married out of love.
And it was so taboo at the time,you know, like you can't do
that.
Your family is the one whoarranges who you get married to
in our Indian culture.
They rejected the notion ofarranged marriage.
They had my mum and seven otherkids.
My mum, you know, migrated fromMalaysia, brown skin and wanted
to sell things.
So it was one of the firstfemale real estate agents in
(29:43):
Perth and they gave herreception jobs.
And I remember just as the waythat she talks about it is she
went to the principal's officeand, you know, removed
everything from his desk andjust said you know put me on the
main floor I'm not areceptionist like stop treating
me like somebody I that I can'tdo things you know because I'm a
woman treat me as like anotherguy who's out on the floor who
(30:05):
can sell so she did that whereasI think some of her other female
counterparts would have beenlike okay well this is all I can
do this is all they see in meand then you start hearing that
narrative as well Mum ended upbecoming one of the first female
top sales people in Perth.
Changed the game in Perth forwomen who are real estate
agents.
Just completely annihilated it.
(30:26):
Did so well that she brought mydad into real estate.
It's just, yeah, just gamechanging moments.
But coming back to my Amachi,she was never dictated by my
Tata at all.
She was never like, you're thehead of the family and I'm the
wife.
It was equal.
I'm going to do this.
You're going to do this.
We're going to work together.
(30:46):
When they would cook, you know,my granddad would be like the
little chopping up of the onionguy and my muchie would just
chuck it all into the frying panand they would do it
collaboratively.
So I could always see and alwaysabsorb good role modelling.
And I think that's the biggestthing they've taught me.
My tata actually taught me howto love women.
and the right ways of lovingwomen and how to do that.
(31:08):
And so did my dad.
So yeah, really, really big rolemodels in my life.
SPEAKER_00 (31:14):
Oh, that's fantastic.
So we always like to ask peoplewhen they're on the podcast,
Ashara, who is in your raft?
Do you want to give them a shoutout?
SPEAKER_01 (31:22):
Absolutely.
So around my family.
So my dad, my mum, externalfamily as well.
So being uncles, aunties, thosewho are past.
So my machi, my tata.
And then my beautiful partner.
SPEAKER_00 (31:34):
I'm sorry, your beautiful partner who recently
was awarded Mixed Bellesque.
WA.
SPEAKER_01 (31:40):
2024.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So very stoked.
It's probably why my voice is abit husky.
But yeah, just beautiful peoplewho want to be a part of the
journey you're on.
When we talk about supportnetwork, it's again, feeling the
fear and doing it anyway,because you might come across
someone that has the same energyas you or is going to unlock
doors for you, or it's justgoing to be like a great friend
(32:02):
and a great pal, you know?
And I think sometimes thosepeople within your rafts are
underestimated.
But they're the ones that you goto when things stuff up, when
you have NTB or, you know, youdon't get that grant or you
don't get that contract and yougo, what did I do wrong?
And then they're the ones thathave a bevy with you and say,
you as a person are great.
(32:22):
And that gets you back on track.
So I would say that family,friends and the people you
haven't met yet.
SPEAKER_00 (32:29):
I love that.
The people in my raft are thepeople I haven't met yet.
So good.
So on that note.
Is there anyone that you need inyour raft?
We usually ask people who comeon, what is it they need?
Is there anyone else they needin their raft?
Is there anything that our raftof listeners could do for you?
SPEAKER_01 (32:47):
Yeah, very great question.
I think...
Just going back to what Imentioned prior, which is be
curious and not furious.
So if that is someone's talkingto you about, hey, we want to
like give back to the community,but we want to do it for this
demographic, maybe throwing in adifferent suggestion and going,
hey, maybe could we change focusfor this year?
(33:07):
Could we do an LGBTI specificevent?
Or can we use that budget fortraining in diversity and
inclusion?
Or in November, we have ourPride Fest here.
And the reason we have itNovember is not because it is
great warm weather is because in1989, there was a peaceful
protest that happened atParliament House.
There was about 300 LGBTQI pluspeople and their allies.
(33:29):
And because at the time, MPshere were debating if
homosexuality laws were to beabolished.
For people who don't know, inWA, we had homosexuality laws,
which were in place and didn'tget abolished until 1989.
So you could face up to 14 yearsimprisonment for being
homosexual and found out to behomosexual.
So they did this peacefulprotest and basically a few
(33:50):
months after that, the lawschanged here in WA.
Those laws were abolished.
When that happened, it was inNovember.
And that's why we celebrate ourPride Fest in November.
I
SPEAKER_00 (34:00):
didn't know that.
Yeah, I didn't.
Fun fact.
Also, that's terrifying thatthat was after I was born that
it stopped being illegal.
I know.
39,
SPEAKER_01 (34:09):
no, sorry, 35 years.
We haven't even gone through awhole generation.
And so that's, you know, anotherthing that people go, why do we
still have these celebrations?
Why are we still celebrating?
Why do we have the rainbow flagsand everything?
It's like, Because there's stillpeople on this planet that think
being homosexual is illegalbecause that's what they lived
through.
SPEAKER_00 (34:26):
And there are definitely still plenty of
places on this planet where itis still illegal, which is
fairly scary.
We're lucky.
SPEAKER_01 (34:32):
100%.
So going back to the topic ofPride Fest, so get involved with
the events there, you know,volunteer with Pride WA, try and
get into the community becausewe're just like everyday people.
I heard a phrase when I was atthe LGBTIQA plus executive
fellowship where at the endwe're going around in circles
like, you know, what did youlearn?
What did you find out about it?
The main director of the course,he just started to get all
(34:54):
emotional and he said, beforethis course, I actually thought
that LGBTIQA plus people were abit odd because I'm a
heterosexual guy, you know,cisgender heterosexual guy.
And I just always thought theywere a bit odd.
But now I know that they're justeveryday people.
And that was just, that shookme, right?
Because it took guts for him tosay that in front of a room full
of LGBTIQA plus people.
(35:15):
But it's not siloed for thatthought.
Like that is actually a sharedexperience.
So yeah, just being curiousabout that and getting involved
with groups.
If you haven't met an LGBTIQAplus person, try, you know, get
involved.
We're pretty fun.
Should be fairly easy,hopefully.
SPEAKER_00 (35:30):
Great parties.
SPEAKER_01 (35:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Great parties.
And also you don't need to beLGBTIQA plus to come along to
all of these events, by the way,in Pridefest.
And if they are specific,they'll say on the event.
So just
SPEAKER_00 (35:41):
get involved.
I think another thing to pointout is that a lot of events that
are run around this time aren'tsex focused.
They're not things that arebased around sex because it's
not about sex.
It's about the community andit's about people.
And quite often the community issexualized by people who aren't
part of it.
So I think that's a reallyimportant aspect of being an
(36:03):
ally is an understanding thatnot everything about being queer
is about sex
SPEAKER_01 (36:07):
yes and that is because of the hypersexualized
format of being lgbtqa plusright it's because it's a
different it's an odd it's aother it's something so you've
got to put a label on it for youto feel more comfortable with it
that's why people go lgbtqa pluspeople are promiscuous they're
sexual all these sort of thingsbut it's not the case i mean
yeah we definitely do have thatbut so do heterosexual
(36:29):
communities there is a wholeunderground community of people
who go to sex parties and inthose sort of places and spaces.
And I love that for them.
But it's not just siloed toLGBTQI plus communities.
And yes, you're 100% correct.
There's
SPEAKER_00 (36:42):
plenty of kinky straight people out there.
SPEAKER_01 (36:44):
100%, yeah.
I
SPEAKER_00 (36:47):
am so sad that we have to wrap it up because this
has been the best fun.
It's been great having you onthe podcast, Ashara.
So unfortunately, once again,we're utterly out of time.
That's right.
But if you have a story abouthow you have contributed a
unique perspective to aconversation, particularly one
that touches on topics impactingthe queer community, we would
(37:09):
love to hear from you.
And where can people reach us?
We are on Instagram at RaftPodcast, or you can email hello
at raftpodcast.com.
And for previous episodes or tofind out more, don't forget to
check out our website,raftpodcast.com.
Thanks for listening, Rafters.
Catch you next time.
(37:47):
If it was a choice to date men,none of us would pick it.
No one would choose that.
It's so true.
I love that so much.
I feel like we can still sneakthat in there somehow.
Hi Rafters, before this episode begins, we just
want to share a content warningwith you.
This episode touches on somedifficult topics, including
challenges impacting the queercommunity and youth suicide.
If any of that is triggering foryou, catch us back up in the
next episode.
Otherwise, it's a really greatchat and we hope you'll get a
lot out of it.
As usual, this episode containsadult language and concepts.
UNKNOWN (00:28):
Music Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
For centuries we've been told that women are each
other's worst enemies, but inreality we're more like otters
than queen bees.
Female otters, bitches if youwill, join hands with each other
to create rafts that stop themfrom drifting apart and losing
each other while they're asleep.
Thriving women have one thing incommon, they have a tight-knit
circle of other women who helpthem get there by providing
information and support.
(00:57):
Join us each episode as we shinea light on an amazing woman and
give her a platform to sharewith us her story, her passion
and the Raft of Bitches supportsupporting her.
Hi everyone and welcome to Raftof Bitches.
Today I'm here with my co-hostRicky Barnes who was once ranked
number 46 in the world for BMX.
(01:20):
That's right, never got anyhigher because it was a bit hard
to compete in Australia.
It's that kind of, you know, ifyou want to make it big you've
really got to go to the US.
And my co-host today is Jo whoonce went to the US for three
weeks.
She had washed every singlepiece of clothing and yet it
still had some of her cat's furon it.
And today we are joined byAshara Wills and Ashara is going
(01:42):
to be talking to us a little bitabout the intersectionality
between women and the queercommunity.
Ashara is a multiculturalprofessional who has worked
through the ups and downs,curves and corners of being
queer from a young age.
She has established a strongfoundation of support through
her family, friends and networkswhile also surrounding herself
(02:02):
in the community servicessector.
Ashara has always been anadvocate of the LGBTIQA plus
community by engaging inmeaningful conversations,
passing on knowledge, consultingwith the community and
continually embracingdifferences.
That's a mouthful.
Welcome, Ashara.
SPEAKER_01 (02:19):
Thank you.
And I apologize.
The
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
mouthful, the intro.
Please.
It's actually a little bitintimidating.
Very impressive.
All right.
We've got an icebreaker.
Let's get straight into it.
Ashara, your icebreaker thatyou've chosen today is your
favorite quote.
Tell us your favorite
SPEAKER_01 (02:35):
quote?
Favorite quote is feel the fearand do it anyway.
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (02:40):
I love it.
Is it by a specific person?
SPEAKER_01 (02:42):
I actually don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (02:44):
That's one of those ones that goes around, isn't it?
That you see everywhere, but youdon't necessarily know who
originated it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:51):
Yeah, 100%.
And whoever the original quotais, fantastic work.
SPEAKER_00 (02:56):
Why does that mean so much to you?
What have you really embracedabout that?
SPEAKER_01 (03:00):
So when I was younger, I constantly had fear
of communicating with people,meeting people, public speaking,
selling, all of that sort ofstuff.
And then I came across thequote, which was feel the fear
and do it anyway.
So feeling the fear ofnetworking with people, meeting
people, going outside yourcomfort zone.
So essentially, that was thequote that I read.
(03:21):
And that was a game changer forme because it's we're always
going to understand that it'sgoing to be scary to meet people
scary to you know be on thestage and public speak you're
always going to have the fear ofgiving your authentic story or
trying to persuade someoneyou're going into a high
pressure situation you're alwaysgoing to feel that fear that's
not going to change but what'sgoing to change is you not
(03:43):
taking action So if that fear isgoing to stop you from saying
hello to someone at a networkingevent that could potentially
unlock financial doors, unlockcontracting, unlock connections,
then that is something that'sgoing to hold you back.
But if you go and say hello tosomeone, start a conversation,
feel that nervousness, it couldresult in positive things.
(04:03):
Same thing with, you know,sharing your story or public
speaking.
If you don't have a story thatsomeone can connect with in the
crowd that can go, oh my gosh,That's me.
That's what I'm experiencing.
I need to look into this alittle bit more.
And it could be game changingfor them.
The role models that I've had inmy past have really helped me.
And so I kind of want to do thatfor the rest of us.
(04:24):
But we all get that feeling,right?
Of like, you know, performersget it.
You know, I reckon CEOs, anyone,you get that feeling.
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
I love that.
Can I ask, is it now easy foryou?
Or is it still feeling the fear?
And you're doing it anyway.
SPEAKER_01 (04:40):
I would say it's a lot easier, but I still at some
events and some public speakingengagements, some training
sessions where I'm like, whoa.
okay, you know, doing the heavybreathings at the start, doing
the mindfulness experiences andexercises to really get me in
the zone.
But in terms of networkingevents, it's kind of like, it's
not really a game.
(05:01):
It's not the word that I'mlooking for, but it's kind of
like, I'm excited, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
It's so funny you say that because I grew up doing
a lot of performing arts.
I've been dancing since I wasfour.
My mum used to say to me,because I used to get a little
bit of stage fright, but sheused to always say to me, fear
and excitement are the exactsame thing.
You've just got to flip it inyour head and turn that fear
into excitement.
I feel exactly the same when Igo on stage.
(05:25):
I'm like, I'm not scared.
I'm excited.
My body just thinks they're thesame thing.
A
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
hundred percent.
And you're almost like, who canI meet tonight?
Or like, who am I going to talkto?
Who's going to share their storyand is going to unlock things?
Like, who am I going to connectwith?
And who am I going to build mynetworks with?
And for me, that's exciting.
So I would say, I think now mybrain understands the
differences, just like youmentioned, Jo.
But yeah, again, there's stillsome events I was just at a
(05:50):
LGBTQA plus executive fellowshipwhere I'm sitting in a room full
of heads of Google, heads ofMicrosoft, university deans, you
know, you name it, people from,you know, heads of like Mervac
and stuff.
And I'm just kind of sittingthere going, I feel like I'm a
fish out of water here.
But then slowly people justcoming up to me and just saying,
I'm so glad you're on the coursethat you have just such a
(06:12):
different way of leadership.
You know, it's so good.
And to me, that was reallyvalidating.
And it was the only WA personthere as well.
So just stuff like that whereyou kind of go, OK, that's a big
moment.
I'm in a big room of big people.
How am I going to contribute?
And yeah, that validation comeswith it, which is pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00 (06:30):
That's fantastic.
Can I ask you about yourleadership style?
What is your leadership style?
Where did you get started inleadership?
SPEAKER_01 (06:38):
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (06:38):
that's
SPEAKER_01 (06:38):
a really good question.
I can't pinpoint exactly when itstarted.
Probably when I was in primaryschool and I just had a lot to
say.
And I always thought I wasright.
You know, just that naivety of alittle child being like, you
know, I can change the worldand...
what I say is correct.
And obviously that's not veryoften and that's okay to me.
(07:00):
So I think leadership for mestarted into sport.
So when I was younger, alwayswanting to be, you know, the
sport captain or win any of thetrophies and all that sort of
stuff, because I wanted to bringmy peers with me.
And that's my, when you askabout my leadership style, that
is a hundred percent.
It's how do I bring the peoplearound me with me on this
journey and how do I upliftthem?
(07:22):
I don't think there's any wrongtype of leadership.
In fact, there's so manyleadership styles out there and
nobody can agree on what aleadership style is.
If you take risks and you bringpeople along with you, I think
to me that's the best sort ofleadership.
And so I think I found thatthrough sport.
SPEAKER_00 (07:37):
Speaking of leadership, Ashara, I heard a
rumour that you were the firstfemale and first queer AFLW
registered coach for the WestCoast Eagles.
SPEAKER_01 (07:48):
So yes, rumour is true.
I had a fantastic opportunity in2017 where I was working, well
not working, but wasvolunteering as one of the state
AFL coaches for the women'ssquad at the time and was loving
it.
And I actually met Adam Selwood,who was working working in the
community space within the WestCoast Eagles.
And, you know, was just sharingmy story with him.
(08:09):
And, you know, I was a big fangrowing up, watching him play
and also his brothers.
But being a West Coast Eaglesfan, him, told him that I was
multicultural and all that sortof stuff.
So an opportunity came acrosshis desk, which was the AFL Alec
Jadzolenko internship, where itwas around bringing
multicultural people into AFLcoaching experiences to really
(08:30):
catalyst their career and getthem into coaching.
So he said, would you like to doit?
I said, yeah, absolutely.
Would love to do it.
And so met the general managerand some other heads of West
Coast Eagles.
And they said, I think it wouldbe bloody brilliant if we had
the first registered AFL coachand it be you.
And I obviously said yes.
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
Fantastic.
Can I ask you to talk a bit moreabout what it has meant for you
to be not just a woman, not justqueer, but also multicultural in
a place like Australia?
SPEAKER_01 (09:02):
Yeah.
Yeah, very good one.
So I have uncles that don't talkto me just because, you know,
you can't be queer, that's seenas being an abomination and
something wrong with you and,you know, you can just change
your mind, like this is a choicethat you're making.
So for me that has a compoundingexperience because there are
things that I miss out on justdue to my sexuality and for me
(09:24):
it's not something I can turnoff and on.
When we talk aboutmulticulturalism, there are very
few safe places and spaceswithin society any sort of
multicultural areas where youcan be your authentic self, like
being queer to the forefront,let alone being a woman.
There's definitely a lot ofcultural, I would say norms that
you, you know, you can't talk toa man, a man has to talk to a
(09:46):
man and a woman has to not sayanything, you know, be seen, but
not be heard sort of thing.
So having that compounding queerexperience, being a woman and
then multiculturalism as a wholehas been quite challenging at
times, but also I've been ableto change the dial a little bit.
So it when talking to people,like I was part of the Ozspire
Multicultural LeadershipProgram, and I sat around at a
(10:08):
table and it was sort of justthe elephant in the room.
They were talking about pride,they were talking about people's
experiences and how leadersreally unlock that.
And I just sort of said, youknow, we're all sort of sitting
around the table, but we're notbringing up something that's
really kind of my passion, whichis why do multicultural leaders
abandon the LGBTQIA pluscommunity?
(10:28):
Why is it?
We all say that, you know, thisperson does great, there's this
person does great at that but assoon as they come out it's like
you wash your hands of it andyou're like I never want to see
you again and for some peoplethat's really hard like that's
their support network right sothey end up living a lie or what
we call in our community maskingwhere they become someone
they're not in order to fit inand I just kind of want to
(10:49):
advocate for that and say youknow why is it because of norms
that you've just been aroundyou've never questioned it
because the world has advancedso much you know we we've moved
on And that was a really robustconversation.
And it was so great becausesomebody else in the course, you
know, actually said, actually, Ithink I need to step in.
I was like, oh, no, here we go.
We're going to get someone who'sjust going to take it off.
(11:10):
But they actually said, I'm aqueer X, Y and Z.
And I haven't been that upfrontand honest ever, but I'm going
to bring it to this tablebecause it's something that we
need to talk about.
And actually just said, I 100%agree with Ashara.
I've never come out because ofthis, but I felt that this was a
great place to actually come outand tell people my story because
you all just assume that I'mstraight or I'm heterosexual or
(11:31):
whatever, but that's not mylife.
I'm seen as a multiculturalleader.
And it was just a beautifulconversation.
So that's kind of like myexperience.
That intersectionality is notletting things go by, not saying
anything.
but actually bringing it up tothe forefront and saying, hey,
why?
Like challenging people, but ina respectful way.
It's not like you suck.
It's why?
And be curious about things.
SPEAKER_00 (11:51):
Fantastic.
I know you spent some timevolunteering with Pride WA and
during that time you wereinvolved with organising some
events to kind of promote theintersectionality there.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about what happened in that
space?
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I was on the board ofmanagement, which is essentially
just your board for a charityand or not for profit.
I rocked up because they wantedto be able to communicate and
network and be able to get thebuy-in from young people.
And at the time I was workingvery heavily with young people.
I think I still consideredmyself as a young person, even
(12:25):
though I was above 25.
And they said, yeah, you'll begreat.
Let's do it.
I just remember going, is thisreally what you want?
Or should we try and open up thescope a little bit?
And given that I'm a veryvisible female in a board of all
men and cisgendered gay men, howdo we change the dial on that?
Or how do we change thedynamics?
And one thing that I always sawwith Pride WA is they do
(12:47):
fantastic events and they do alot of things for our community,
but it was really based aroundone particular type of
community, which was cisgendergay men.
And I see where it's come frombecause you have to
self-nominate to be able to be apart of the board.
But I just thought if you'regoing to change something, you
can't do it from the outside,you could do it from the inside.
I mean, you can do a bit ofboth, but something that I could
offer was definitely inside.
(13:08):
And so I remember a couple of myfirst sessions at the board
table was being really upfrontand honest and just going, you
know, this is all great, butwho's our audience?
And they'll just, oh, just queerpeople.
But what does that mean?
You know, just being reallycurious, like a phrase that I
learned from a really goodfriend, Amber Anthony, if you
haven't heard of her, she'sgreat.
You're a spicy, shout out.
(13:29):
And she said, be curious, notfurious.
So it's always like, I'm feelingfurious because to me, you're
just like, they're just queerpeople.
Do you even know what thatmeans?
Instead of getting angry aboutit, just going, yeah, yeah.
But what does that mean?
Can you let me know?
And they started to rattle off afew things and it was okay but
how about transgender people howabout our suffix how about our
asexual community how about ourpansexual community you know
(13:49):
really open it up and they go ohwe didn't even realize they were
part of our community no shameon them and no judgment because
again you have to put up yourhand to nominate for these sort
of things but it just goes toshow in our community we don't
really have it all organized andall set up as well and so I did
have to do a whole business casearound an event for women I did
a whole bunch of networking andconsulting with the community so
(14:10):
suffix to understand what is itthey want.
The things that highlightedactually was something that
wasn't at a nightclub.
A lot of our events are atnightclubs.
It's loud.
It's hard to talk to people.
You can't really connect unlessyou're drinking.
So a whole part of our communitywouldn't be able to attend, like
people who have sensorychallenges and then also people
who don't drink.
And we landed on a Sundaysession at a brewery.
(14:32):
So people who want to have adrink because they might be
socially a bit anxious, theycould do that.
But also it's a big place, likeit's a nice big warehouse.
So it's not too much overloadwith noise and music and still
had some entertainment.
So Hops With Her was created andthe name stemmed from the venue.
So the venue was Nowhere ManBrewing.
So you get it like Nowhere Manbecause it's a sapphics event.
(14:53):
And that caught on really well.
And we had just diversity.
We had young people.
We had people from differentcultures, even different
religions.
We had corporate people to yourreal, like just your whole
blend.
I was really, really proud ofthat because it brought a whole
different dynamic to Pride WA.
And I made sure I spoke topretty much every single person.
We had over 200 people in thevenue and I wanted to understand
(15:14):
their thoughts around Pride WA.
Half of them didn't even knowwho it was.
They had no idea what they didfor our community, didn't
understand a lot of thosethings.
So I brought awareness to thatside of things and also
encouraged them to get involved.
Others were a bit disgruntledaround Pride WA.
There's some history there.
But after having a chat withthem, they really got involved
and I hope that I have left abit of a legacy with Pride WA
(15:35):
because now you look at it andit is diverse.
You know, you do haverepresentation from different
genders and you do have eventsthat have that inclusivity lens
so things that are held likepicnics or like play groups and
you know families instead of itbeing a party and always be seen
as a party it's like no this canbe a family thing too and then
now with the you know advocacyand bits and pieces that they're
(15:57):
doing it's just really cool tosee that I might have been a
little part of that that change
SPEAKER_00 (16:01):
yeah great what do you think are some of the
barriers for people wanting toenter that space so you know you
said it was a board full of menwhat are the barriers I guess
specific specifically for women,trans women, cis women, that
stop them from getting moreinvolved?
SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
I think it's the lack of representation.
When we work with Aboriginal andTorres Strait Islander people,
so mob, as well as multiculturalpeople, they always gravitate
towards each other, right?
Because there's that sense ofcommonality.
You know, if I walked into aroom full of people, I would
gravitate to people who looklike me, people who sound like
me.
I mean, you can spot the queersfrom a mile away, right?
And you go and you gravitatetowards them.
(16:38):
Or somebody who had the samesort of colour of skin as me.
And that's just what we do.
Right.
Because that's that's we feelcomfortable.
We feel like we can have thingsin common.
So I think that's the biggestbarrier is that lack of
visibility.
So people go, oh, that can neverbe me because that doesn't look
like me.
That doesn't sound like me.
I have no way in.
And the way that I actually gotonto the board was through a
(16:58):
connection that I was doing somework with.
And he was like, you'rephenomenal.
I want you to come be a part ofPride WA board.
And I was like, there's no way Icould do that.
That was literally my reactionwas there's no way I could do
that.
And he goes, it absolutely is.
You just have to nominate andyou'll come on board.
We'll set up meetings.
We'll do this.
We'll do that.
So I think that's the biggestbarrier.
Whereas now, as soon as youstart seeing people who are
different and publiclydifferent, you know, they're
(17:20):
visible at events.
They speak on behalf of things.
They, you know, really go theirway.
You then have a sense of if theycan do it, I can do it.
SPEAKER_00 (17:28):
Being the raft of bitches, we're talking a lot
about women supporting women.
Something that often getsoverlooked is the importance of
allies.
You mentioned that the personthat got you onto the board of
Pride WA was a male person.
Totally.
So super important.
I'm going to
SPEAKER_01 (17:47):
talk about two different things and they're
going to merge together.
So hang with me here.
So I just want to talk about howwe became connected.
I was employed at the City ofStirling as a youth development
officer.
And one thing that was justcoming out of all the statistics
that I was looking at was thehigh levels of depression and
(18:08):
suicide around LGBTQA plus youngpeople.
And particularly in Australia,in WA, hardly any stats, but
there was a report that came outfrom the Youth Affairs Council
during COVID, which highlightedLGBTQA plus people feeling the
most vulnerable and the mostisolated.
So I pushed for a program forLGBTQA plus young people in the
(18:29):
city of Stirling and finallykicked it off, got all the
approvals, all that sort ofstuff, but we needed a venue.
Now they were very, you know,oh, let's have it in a community
centre, let's have it in alibrary.
And I was like, no, that's notgoing to work.
You know, why are we having tohide our young people who are
LGBTIQA plus?
Like they should be able to goout into spaces and places and
feel like they're a valued partof society.
There was a cafe on BeaufortStreet.
(18:50):
It was right across the roadfrom the Inglewood Library and
the community centre there.
I thought, beautiful.
Bus stop just out the front,accessible to young people.
If If they need to getpermission for their parents,
they can say, oh, it's just alocal library community event.
And then we would walk themacross the road.
It was the best setup.
So I called the owner and I waslike, hey, so this is what we're
wanting to do.
And I never mentioned LGBTIQA+.
(19:10):
I just said young peopleprogram.
And I thought in the back of myhead, if I never say it now and
we go all the way through thisand it's, you know, someone
who's quite homophobic ordoesn't want to do it because
it's going to bring heat totheir business or whatever.
And so I said, I'm not sure ifthis is going to be something
you want to continue, but it isspecifically for LGBTIQA+.
young people.
And the phone went silent and Iwas like, oh, this is it.
(19:30):
I'm going to have to findanother venue.
And he said, do you know who Iam?
And I said, well, the last nameMatera, me being a West Coast
Eagles fan.
And I thought, oh, yep.
Well, Matera, there was a lot ofMatera brothers that played in
the West Coast Eagles and thelike.
And he said, yep, they're mybrothers.
And he said, my name's JerryMatera and I'm the senior vice
president of Pride WA.
He's like, absolutely.
(19:52):
You can have whatever you want,whatever you want to do.
Let's run with it.
I had to like kind of composemyself a little bit.
It was a perfect storm, right?
You know, it's just the venuewas great.
The community centre was great.
We had this whole system wecalled that spilled a tea, you
know, because RuPaul and likehow do we get young people into
it?
Over six months period withouthaving a fortnightly session, we
(20:13):
had over 400 young people rockup.
So that's how we got connected.
We started that together.
by working with each other, byme being my authentic self, him
being his authentic self aswell, we were able to create
something really great.
And then through that otheropportunities arisen.
So remember I was going back tofeel the fear and do it anyway,
phone call, feeling the fear,but I did it anyway.
(20:34):
And it just unlocked that.
And he sat me down.
He's like, we need you at PrideWA.
Would you like to do it?
Is it something that you want tobe a part of?
I said, yes, absolutely.
Let's make it happen.
But again, it takes a bit ofbravery on his side of things
because for him, he's got awhole board that sound like him.
They're all cisgendered gay men.
And he's going to bring someonein who's completely different.
(20:55):
He's taken a chance on me.
So I think that allies take arisk and we don't really see
that.
We just go, well, that's whatthey should do, right?
Like, you know, diversity,inclusion, equity.
You should have that lens.
But when we actually look at it,you're taking a risk.
So yeah, that's how I basicallygot involved with Pride WA and
then eventually took his spotwhen he left and I became senior
(21:15):
vice president, which is like, Ithink now they call it vice
chair and was that for twoyears.
So it was pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00 (21:21):
Amazing.
Any advice for someone who wantsto be a good ally?
SPEAKER_01 (21:24):
Yeah.
Fear the fear and do it anyway.
I keep coming back to it, buthonestly, it's you're going to
get leaps and bounds from takingthat risk and being an ally and
being someone who wants tosupport somebody.
So I would say feel the fear anddo it anyway, because if you
don't do something, then you'rejust going to be assumed as not
being an ally.
(21:44):
We saw it with the marriageequality plebiscite where the
people who were quite silentabout it I mean, me, myself, I
just assumed everybody wasagainst it, right?
But we knew that theoverwhelming majority who were
silent about it were actuallysupportive.
But it was such a bad thing togo through because you just
assumed that no one wearing likea rainbow badge, I know it
sounds ridiculous, but how itwas, that you just assumed we're
(22:06):
going to vote no.
SPEAKER_00 (22:07):
Can I ask you, flip side on that, what does it look
like to be a bad ally?
Are there things that peopleshould not do?
SPEAKER_01 (22:14):
Ah, yes.
The one that's doing it forthemselves.
So what I often see is genuineallyship where someone wants to
really help and then you've gotallyship masked as this is going
to help me and benefit me andonce I've done what I need to do
with that person or thatcommunity or that group, see you
later.
You know, it's got me to my nextpromotion or it's got me talking
(22:37):
to this person that I reallywanted to speak to.
And only through thatconnection, I was able to get
there.
That's bad allyship.
SPEAKER_00 (22:43):
I think in the queer community, there's also an
aspect of a lot of allies, butonly for the bits that they feel
comfortable with.
And being, as you said,intersectional, especially in
the queer community wherethere's a lot of people who are
marginalized is super important.
So acknowledging that you don'tknow everything and your
experience of Being queer mightnot cross over with everyone
(23:05):
else's experiences.
SPEAKER_01 (23:07):
Totally.
And we refer to that as lateralviolence.
I know that a lot of minoritygroups do use that term, but in
particularly the LGBTIQA pluscommunity, because we have
diverse gender and diversesexualities within the same
community.
And we also have intersex too,which isn't quite diverse
gender, isn't quite diversesexuality, but it is a community
(23:27):
within intersex.
And yeah, we've got, you know,some terrible behaviour.
I like to hope that it's gettingbetter, but it used to be very,
you know, transphobic fromwithin.
And people sort of saying, youknow, why should we allow trans
women to compete in sport?
Because they were bad at sportwhen they were, you know, AMAB,
so assigned male at birth.
So now they're wanting to affirmtheir gender so they can get a
(23:49):
step up.
And it's just ludicrous to me.
We also have a lot of work to dointernally.
But I know that there's a lot ofminority groups have a lot of
work to do internally.
So we're not siloed in thateffect.
And I think that we need to talkabout that a little bit more.
You know, there's not onemulticultural community that
align with everything.
You always have leaders that areclashing with members.
You always have leaders that areclashing with each other.
(24:11):
Even look at our family nucleus.
You're always going to havedifferences of opinions because
we're all diverse.
So it's really important toacknowledge that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:19):
Do you think things are getting better?
Have you seen a change over theyears?
SPEAKER_01 (24:23):
Look, to be honest, before the referendum, I did see
a very clear way forward and Ifelt like, you know, oh, wow,
this is it.
This is what we call in sport,right?
A game changing moment.
And then another one happenedwhen the no vote, unfortunately,
resulted.
And then I just felt like youhad all those conservatives that
were quite hushed, actually feltthat sense of power shift, you
(24:48):
know, that power dynamic of nowcome out and being like, why are
we doing diversity and equityinclusion?
It actually has no results forus.
Why are we celebrating pride?
Why are we doing this?
Why are we doing that.
And I think that there'sdefinitely been a slide back.
So I'm just waiting for thatmoment where the dial changes
back.
But my experience personally,majority of people want to do
(25:08):
the right thing.
A majority of people are allies.
A majority of people are smartand see the benefits of being
diverse.
But it's just that sometimesthat fear stops them.
And I think that turns into theydon't care when actually they
do.
And that's why, again, thequote, you know, feel the fear
and do it anyway.
If you get someone's pronounswrong, that's okay.
(25:28):
Just correct yourself, move on.
Don't make it about yourselfbecause that interaction is so
much better than you just goingquiet about it or avoiding that
person or avoiding thosesituations where it could just
be a really beautifulconnection.
Be like, oh yeah, sorry, I meantsuch and such.
SPEAKER_00 (25:44):
That's a good segue, Ashara, into telling us a little
bit about what you do with Queerthe Air.
So do you want to just give usthe nutshell version of what
Queer the Air does?
SPEAKER_01 (25:53):
Yeah, so Let's Queer the Air is a business of mine,
an organisation.
Essentially, we run training andawareness around LGBTQIA plus
topics, as well as really funthings like drag bingo and quiz
nights where people absorbinformation without knowing that
they're learning something.
And they do it in a fun waywhere they can connect, even
though they might not want tolearn about that information,
(26:14):
but because it's fun and social,they'll get involved.
SPEAKER_00 (26:16):
The stealth approach.
The stealth approach.
SPEAKER_01 (26:19):
And we also work on diversity, equity, inclusion as
a whole.
So we've got a really great wayof doing frameworks around that.
So we see, you know, RAPs, wesee disability access inclusion
plans, we see a whole bunch offrameworks, etc.
What we do is we bring all thattogether into a diversity,
equity, inclusion framework fororganisations with
implementation plans.
(26:40):
So everything's just in onelittle neat document and that's
because intersectionality is ahuge thing for us.
So even though we're calledLet's Queer the Air, we do a
holistic approach to services.
SPEAKER_00 (26:50):
Awesome.
If you wanted to give someadvice to organisations on how
they can become morequeer-friendly and more
welcoming for people from allwalks of life what's like the
simplest number one place thatpeople could start do you think
what would be the number onepiece of advice for someone who
had no experience in this andmaybe needed to try and overcome
(27:11):
a toxic culture
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
good question I think there's no right or wrong
way of going about it becauseagain you're dealing with people
A couple of things would be becurious.
So if you know about somethinglike I have no idea about being
a mum, right, or having a kid.
But the first thing I do is jumpon a Google and Google and get
that baseline understanding.
Then when I've got a little bitof knowledge and a little bit of
(27:34):
language around it, then I mightfeel comfortable enough to ask
someone who maybe is at work ora family friend or someone who
is a family member and justreally try and get that
experience.
The second thing would be noteverybody is an open book.
So go to those places and spaceswho are.
Go towards that energy.
So someone like myself, openbook.
(27:55):
You can ask me any questions.
It takes a lot for me to getupset and to get offended.
So go to those places andspaces.
They're all online.
They're all over TikTok.
talk all over Instagram.
So go to those places first andjust be curious and just say
those sort of things like, hey,I really want to get more active
in this space.
I want to become more inclusive.
I just have nowhere to start.
You know, here's my questions.
(28:15):
Totally cool if you don't wantto answer them.
Where can I go for information?
And just knowing that ifsomebody snaps at you or doesn't
want to do that or doesn't replyto your message or whatever,
it's not a you thing.
It's maybe you've been the 15thperson that day and they just
want to have a bit of a breakand then they'll get back to you
or they might just not want totalk about it in that moment.
And that's okay.
It's just how the cookiecrumbles.
(28:36):
So go towards those people whoare active in this space.
SPEAKER_00 (28:39):
But don't let that be the end of your journey if
someone says no to you.
SPEAKER_01 (28:42):
Oh, yes.
Very good.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (28:45):
We were talking a little bit before we started
recording about your mum andyour grandma who have been
strong influences in your life,I guess.
Do you have a best piece ofadvice that they have ever given
you?
SPEAKER_01 (28:58):
Don't let being a woman stop you.
You know, I think that's why Ispoke about it because given the
topic of this podcast, it's justfantastic.
And I just role modeling off my,we call in my language, Amachi
being my grandma and my mum.
It's just, they just never letbeing a woman dictate what they
can and can't do.
So my Amachi and my Tata, mygranddad, they both were meant
(29:21):
to be in arranged marriages, butthey married out of love.
And it was so taboo at the time,you know, like you can't do
that.
Your family is the one whoarranges who you get married to
in our Indian culture.
They rejected the notion ofarranged marriage.
They had my mum and seven otherkids.
My mum, you know, migrated fromMalaysia, brown skin and wanted
to sell things.
So it was one of the firstfemale real estate agents in
(29:43):
Perth and they gave herreception jobs.
And I remember just as the waythat she talks about it is she
went to the principal's officeand, you know, removed
everything from his desk andjust said you know put me on the
main floor I'm not areceptionist like stop treating
me like somebody I that I can'tdo things you know because I'm a
woman treat me as like anotherguy who's out on the floor who
(30:05):
can sell so she did that whereasI think some of her other female
counterparts would have beenlike okay well this is all I can
do this is all they see in meand then you start hearing that
narrative as well Mum ended upbecoming one of the first female
top sales people in Perth.
Changed the game in Perth forwomen who are real estate
agents.
Just completely annihilated it.
(30:26):
Did so well that she brought mydad into real estate.
It's just, yeah, just gamechanging moments.
But coming back to my Amachi,she was never dictated by my
Tata at all.
She was never like, you're thehead of the family and I'm the
wife.
It was equal.
I'm going to do this.
You're going to do this.
We're going to work together.
(30:46):
When they would cook, you know,my granddad would be like the
little chopping up of the onionguy and my muchie would just
chuck it all into the frying panand they would do it
collaboratively.
So I could always see and alwaysabsorb good role modelling.
And I think that's the biggestthing they've taught me.
My tata actually taught me howto love women.
and the right ways of lovingwomen and how to do that.
(31:08):
And so did my dad.
So yeah, really, really big rolemodels in my life.
SPEAKER_00 (31:14):
Oh, that's fantastic.
So we always like to ask peoplewhen they're on the podcast,
Ashara, who is in your raft?
Do you want to give them a shoutout?
SPEAKER_01 (31:22):
Absolutely.
So around my family.
So my dad, my mum, externalfamily as well.
So being uncles, aunties, thosewho are past.
So my machi, my tata.
And then my beautiful partner.
SPEAKER_00 (31:34):
I'm sorry, your beautiful partner who recently
was awarded Mixed Bellesque.
WA.
SPEAKER_01 (31:40):
2024.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So very stoked.
It's probably why my voice is abit husky.
But yeah, just beautiful peoplewho want to be a part of the
journey you're on.
When we talk about supportnetwork, it's again, feeling the
fear and doing it anyway,because you might come across
someone that has the same energyas you or is going to unlock
doors for you, or it's justgoing to be like a great friend
(32:02):
and a great pal, you know?
And I think sometimes thosepeople within your rafts are
underestimated.
But they're the ones that you goto when things stuff up, when
you have NTB or, you know, youdon't get that grant or you
don't get that contract and yougo, what did I do wrong?
And then they're the ones thathave a bevy with you and say,
you as a person are great.
(32:22):
And that gets you back on track.
So I would say that family,friends and the people you
haven't met yet.
SPEAKER_00 (32:29):
I love that.
The people in my raft are thepeople I haven't met yet.
So good.
So on that note.
Is there anyone that you need inyour raft?
We usually ask people who comeon, what is it they need?
Is there anyone else they needin their raft?
Is there anything that our raftof listeners could do for you?
SPEAKER_01 (32:47):
Yeah, very great question.
I think...
Just going back to what Imentioned prior, which is be
curious and not furious.
So if that is someone's talkingto you about, hey, we want to
like give back to the community,but we want to do it for this
demographic, maybe throwing in adifferent suggestion and going,
hey, maybe could we change focusfor this year?
(33:07):
Could we do an LGBTI specificevent?
Or can we use that budget fortraining in diversity and
inclusion?
Or in November, we have ourPride Fest here.
And the reason we have itNovember is not because it is
great warm weather is because in1989, there was a peaceful
protest that happened atParliament House.
There was about 300 LGBTQI pluspeople and their allies.
(33:29):
And because at the time, MPshere were debating if
homosexuality laws were to beabolished.
For people who don't know, inWA, we had homosexuality laws,
which were in place and didn'tget abolished until 1989.
So you could face up to 14 yearsimprisonment for being
homosexual and found out to behomosexual.
So they did this peacefulprotest and basically a few
(33:50):
months after that, the lawschanged here in WA.
Those laws were abolished.
When that happened, it was inNovember.
And that's why we celebrate ourPride Fest in November.
I
SPEAKER_00 (34:00):
didn't know that.
Yeah, I didn't.
Fun fact.
Also, that's terrifying thatthat was after I was born that
it stopped being illegal.
I know.
39,
SPEAKER_01 (34:09):
no, sorry, 35 years.
We haven't even gone through awhole generation.
And so that's, you know, anotherthing that people go, why do we
still have these celebrations?
Why are we still celebrating?
Why do we have the rainbow flagsand everything?
It's like, Because there's stillpeople on this planet that think
being homosexual is illegalbecause that's what they lived
through.
SPEAKER_00 (34:26):
And there are definitely still plenty of
places on this planet where itis still illegal, which is
fairly scary.
We're lucky.
SPEAKER_01 (34:32):
100%.
So going back to the topic ofPride Fest, so get involved with
the events there, you know,volunteer with Pride WA, try and
get into the community becausewe're just like everyday people.
I heard a phrase when I was atthe LGBTIQA plus executive
fellowship where at the endwe're going around in circles
like, you know, what did youlearn?
What did you find out about it?
The main director of the course,he just started to get all
(34:54):
emotional and he said, beforethis course, I actually thought
that LGBTIQA plus people were abit odd because I'm a
heterosexual guy, you know,cisgender heterosexual guy.
And I just always thought theywere a bit odd.
But now I know that they're justeveryday people.
And that was just, that shookme, right?
Because it took guts for him tosay that in front of a room full
of LGBTIQA plus people.
(35:15):
But it's not siloed for thatthought.
Like that is actually a sharedexperience.
So yeah, just being curiousabout that and getting involved
with groups.
If you haven't met an LGBTIQAplus person, try, you know, get
involved.
We're pretty fun.
Should be fairly easy,hopefully.
SPEAKER_00 (35:30):
Great parties.
SPEAKER_01 (35:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Great parties.
And also you don't need to beLGBTIQA plus to come along to
all of these events, by the way,in Pridefest.
And if they are specific,they'll say on the event.
So just
SPEAKER_00 (35:41):
get involved.
I think another thing to pointout is that a lot of events that
are run around this time aren'tsex focused.
They're not things that arebased around sex because it's
not about sex.
It's about the community andit's about people.
And quite often the community issexualized by people who aren't
part of it.
So I think that's a reallyimportant aspect of being an
(36:03):
ally is an understanding thatnot everything about being queer
is about sex
SPEAKER_01 (36:07):
yes and that is because of the hypersexualized
format of being lgbtqa plusright it's because it's a
different it's an odd it's aother it's something so you've
got to put a label on it for youto feel more comfortable with it
that's why people go lgbtqa pluspeople are promiscuous they're
sexual all these sort of thingsbut it's not the case i mean
yeah we definitely do have thatbut so do heterosexual
(36:29):
communities there is a wholeunderground community of people
who go to sex parties and inthose sort of places and spaces.
And I love that for them.
But it's not just siloed toLGBTQI plus communities.
And yes, you're 100% correct.
There's
SPEAKER_00 (36:42):
plenty of kinky straight people out there.
SPEAKER_01 (36:44):
100%, yeah.
I
SPEAKER_00 (36:47):
am so sad that we have to wrap it up because this
has been the best fun.
It's been great having you onthe podcast, Ashara.
So unfortunately, once again,we're utterly out of time.
That's right.
But if you have a story abouthow you have contributed a
unique perspective to aconversation, particularly one
that touches on topics impactingthe queer community, we would
(37:09):
love to hear from you.
And where can people reach us?
We are on Instagram at RaftPodcast, or you can email hello
at raftpodcast.com.
And for previous episodes or tofind out more, don't forget to
check out our website,raftpodcast.com.
Thanks for listening, Rafters.
Catch you next time.
(37:47):
If it was a choice to date men,none of us would pick it.
No one would choose that.
It's so true.
I love that so much.
I feel like we can still sneakthat in there somehow.
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