December 16, 2024 • 36 mins
Live from West Tech Fest - the biggest startup and innovation focused festival in Western Australia.
This episode we are joined by Cheryl Mack, CEO of Aussie Angels to discuss democratising angel investing and the investment landscape for startups in Australia. Cheryl arrived in Australia in 2015 and pretty quickly became what The Australian newspaper described as "a force to be reckoned with in the local start up scene".
As CEO of StartCon, she ran the largest start up conference in Australia, as well as creating the Pitch for $1M competition, which saw founders from the Asia-Pacific region and beyond pitching their startups to compete for a total of $1 million in investment. Cheryl is an active angel investor with over 32 startup investments, she leads an angel syndicate with over 450 investors, and she co-runs 361 Angel Club which has more than 500 investors.
We also have some fun little bonus interviews with attendees at WestTechFest!
If you are interested in getting started in angel investing - get in touch with Cheryl on Linkedin here or check out Aussie Angels on their website.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
UNKNOWN (00:00):
music music
SPEAKER_06 (00:13):
For centuries, we've been told that women are each
other's worst enemies.
But in reality, we're more likeotters than queen bees.
Female otters, bitches, if youwill, join hands with each other
to create rafts that stop themfrom drifting apart and losing
each other while they're asleep.
Thriving women have one thing incommon.
In our experience, they havetight-knit circles of other
(00:35):
women who helped them get thereby providing information and
support.
Each episode, we shine a lighton an amazing woman and give her
a platform to share with us herstory, her passion, and the raft
of bitches that are supportingus, or her.
Today, we are joined by Cheryl,and it is a little noisy around
us right now because we are liverecording from West Tech Fest.
(00:57):
So I'm here with my co-host,Kate Kirwan.
A fun fact about Kate, she'sactually just returned a couple
of days ago from the US, whereshe was touring around on a
diplomatic visa of some sort,which is like such a flex.
There was pretty fun being like,I'm actually a guest of the US
SPEAKER_07 (01:15):
State Department.
I'm joined by my co-host JoMinnie today.
And a fun fact about Jo is thatshe has what Cheryl just
described as an advent calendarof Christmas outfits.
So she has a separate shirt andearring for every single day of
December in the lead up toChristmas.
And she is rocking one rightnow.
SPEAKER_06 (01:37):
It's true.
It says, tell me what you want,what you really, really want.
A famous Christmas carol by theSpice Girls.
I love it.
We're joined
SPEAKER_07 (01:44):
by a wonderful guest today, Cheryl Mack.
And I have a little spiel thatI'm going to read you about
Cheryl.
She arrived in Australia in 2015and pretty quickly became what
the Australian newspaper hasdescribed as a force to be
reckoned with in the localstartup scene.
She was the CEO of StartCon, ranthe largest startup conference
in Australia, creating the Pitchfor One Million competition
(02:07):
She's also the strategic advisorfor several startups and in her
spare time mentors quite a lotin different programs.
She's an active angel investorwith a lot of different
investments under her belt andshe's now the CEO of Aussie
Angels.
She's on a mission todemocratize angel investing in
Australia and New Zealand andwe're going to find out a little
(02:28):
bit more how.
Welcome to the show Cheryl.
Thank you so much for having meand I'm excited to be here while
we're at West Tech Fest.
Yeah we're gonna kick off with alittle bit of an icebreaker.
So the icebreaker that you'vepicked for us today, Cheryl, is
your favorite quote.
Would you like to tell us whatit is and why it's your favorite
quote?
Yes.
So my favorite quote is, ventureinvesting is like watching paint
(02:50):
dry.
If you want excitement, go toLas Vegas.
And I realized after I said it,I probably should have
remembered who said the quote,but I do not remember who said
the quote.
I just remember liking thatquote.
So apologies to whoever said itthat I can't remember.
That's a great quote, and I didjust come back from Las
SPEAKER_06 (03:05):
Vegas, so this is also very topical.
I love that.
I also love that watching paintdry, boring as hell, takes a
really long time, but the endresult, worth it.
Yeah, exactly.
It's an investment.
It is an investment in time andboredom.
All right, so today we are goingto be talking a little bit about
investment and a little bitabout what you do at Aussie
(03:26):
Angels.
So just to get us started,because while a lot of our
audience might be across thisalready, for those who aren't,
can you explain to us a littlebit what an angel investor
actually is?
SPEAKER_07 (03:38):
Yeah, for sure.
So an angel investor istypically somebody who is
investing in companies at thevery, very earliest stages,
typically before they haverevenue, before they have
customers, sometimes before theyeven have a product.
And they're called angelinvestors because emphasis on
the angel, because they comedown and bestow upon poor, risky
(03:59):
companies with nothing.
Here's my money and go buildsomething.
So that's where the term angelcomes from.
But they're essentially privateindividuals investing their own
personal money into really earlystage, very risky businesses.
And how did you get started inangel investing, putting your
own money on the line?
Was it really nerve wrackingwhen you first started?
How did you actually make thatfirst investment?
(04:22):
Kind of, but not really.
No, I almost fell into it.
I was working for a couple ofstartups just for sweat equity.
So like working in exchange forequity in the company.
So I was like, oh, that's notlike investing.
And so I was doing that and Iwas talking to one of the
founders after work one day, youknow, having a drink.
And he was like, oh yeah, we'rejust trying to close our round.
I was like, cool.
How much do you have left?
(04:43):
He's like, oh, about 20 grand.
I was like, oh, interesting.
I thought that in order to angelinvest, you had to invest like
hundreds of thousands of dollarsthat like, you know, you had to
put that much into one company.
You just need 20?
Okay, I could do that.
It helps you get back to runningthe company, and we can go on
our merry way.
I was like, all right, sweet,done.
(05:03):
And then that happened againwith another startup that I was
working with, and then I waslike, ooh, hmm, interesting.
I think this is angel investing,and maybe I should learn what
I'm doing before I keep doingthis.
And so I called up a number ofmy investor friends, people that
knew a lot more about thesethings than I did, and I said,
hey, I think I started angelinvesting by accident.
Tell me everything I need toknow.
(05:24):
Go.
And so first they were like,well, so the bad news is that
you're probably going to losethe money that you've already
invested because there's no wayyou knew what you were doing.
So pretty likely you're going tolose that money.
But the good news is that if youstop now and don't make any more
investments, you won't lose anymore money.
And I was like, oh, hmm, well,that doesn't sound...
(05:44):
Is there an option B?
And they were like, yeah, yeah.
Are you sure you want to hearit?
Because option B is you writeanother 18 or so checks.
And then you might have a chanceat making it all back and then
some.
And I was like, okay, great.
I'll go with that option.
SPEAKER_06 (05:59):
Wow.
That's a ballsy move rightthere.
SPEAKER_07 (06:02):
Yeah.
And now I'm 32 individualcompany investments in.
So...
SPEAKER_06 (06:08):
That's insanity.
And I know that one of thethings that you're involved with
is what you like to refer to, Ithink, as democratizing angel
investment.
Can you tell us a little bitabout what that looks like and
how is that different fromsomeone just giving away$200,000
to a potential investment?
SPEAKER_07 (06:28):
Well, it's not that different.
So the thing is, this is anasset class.
It's within the alternativebucket, alternative investment
bucket.
I mean, it's a subsection.
which is early stage venture,which is a high risk, high
reward asset, which means thatthere's a really big likelihood
that you're going to lose yourmoney on any individual
(06:48):
investment.
But there's also a very smalllikelihood that you do really,
really well.
And when I say really, reallywell, I mean like on an
individual investment, the onesthat do really well could like
thousand to three thousand xreturn so like i give you a
dollar and you give me threethousand dollars back like
that's a crazy return right sothere is incentives to go down
(07:10):
this route and those who do thisreally well are very very very
wealthy there's a reason thatthe guy who invested in uber in
the early days and facebook inthe early days are now
billionaires it's because ofthis concept of being able to
invest in these risky businessesand get a really really good
return that's not to say thatevery single one will, but that
(07:32):
this is the potential.
So all of that is context to saythat this ability to invest in
this asset class has typicallybeen restricted to very wealthy
individuals.
But it doesn't need to be likethat because a lot of the time
startups are actually lookingfor what we call smart money.
They want investors to come inwho can not only provide cash,
(07:53):
but also provide expertise andstrategic value.
And a lot of the people that canprovide that expertise and
strategic value aren'tnecessarily the people who can
write$100,000 checks.
And so, for example, when Istarted angel investing and I
was told, go make a whole bunchof other investments, I was
like, okay, well, the first twoI wrote were 20K each.
If I have to go make another 18,I probably can't keep writing
20K checks.
(08:14):
I need to write smaller checksso that I can make more
investments.
And so I started trying to getinto deals where I could write a
10k check and found thatextremely difficult my check was
small I wasn't very well knownother angels didn't want to have
me on like around like in thecap table or in the deal with
them and and so it was reallydifficult but I did manage to
(08:34):
talk my way into a number ofinvestments and then fast
forward a couple years and Istarted getting other investors
coming to me being like hey canI get in on that like how do I
invest alongside you and I foundmyself being like oh I don't
know your check size is kind ofsmall so I was like wait this is
so silly.
We should be able to open upbetter pathways for investors
who want to access this assetclass to be able to invest in
(08:57):
these types of companies becausethey are smart.
They are usually at a period oflife where it makes sense to
take more risk.
Like if you are young, investingin riskier things makes a whole
lot more sense than when youwere older.
Unfortunately, the way that theregulations are set up, it
usually means that they tend tobe more accessible to older
(09:18):
people who have more assets andincome.
So we are on a mission to openup access to this asset class
for those who want it.
It doesn't make sense foreverybody, but for those who
want to get involved ininvesting in early-stage tech
businesses, then we want to makethat possible.
SPEAKER_06 (09:33):
So I can see that there's a really important
aspect there, not just of givingthis opportunity to younger
people, but also having peoplewho, as you said, are in that
time of their life where theycan be riskier, but also
potentially are going to be morealigned with what a lot of these
startups are doing.
I know for a fact that my fatheris probably not going to
(09:54):
understand the nuances ofinvesting in a tech business
that's doing something that'sreally new and different,
whereas my husband, who works intech, is a lot more likely to do
that.
100%, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (10:06):
What
SPEAKER_05 (10:12):
is your name?
My name is Isabelle Charter.
And what brought you to WestTech Fest today?
I was a panelist at the investorpanel to talk about angel
investing.
SPEAKER_06 (10:24):
Oh, exciting.
And how did that go for you?
SPEAKER_05 (10:26):
Yeah, it was very, very cool.
It was a very interestingdiscussion.
SPEAKER_06 (10:30):
So we were here today to do a live recording of
our podcast, Raft of Bitches.
We've explained to you what araft is.
Can you tell me who is in yourraft?
SPEAKER_05 (10:40):
In my raft, oh, I have too many people.
Definitely my sisters are bigones there.
My partner, big one there.
And I have lots of friends.
I think in each area of yourlife, you need a raft.
So I do triathlon.
I have my gym crew, you know.
I have my work crew.
(11:00):
So I think really knowing what'simportant to you and the people
who value those same thingsmakes a huge difference.
SPEAKER_06 (11:07):
Yeah, great.
I love that.
A different raft for every kid.
SPEAKER_03 (11:09):
Exactly.
My name is Alena Cerides.
SPEAKER_06 (11:13):
And what's the best advice that you've ever received
or what's your advice that youlike to go out with to other
people?
SPEAKER_03 (11:20):
Don't be afraid to get out there, shine your light,
twinkle your sparkle and connectwith people because there's so
much out there and you willnever know if you don't reach
out and see.
UNKNOWN (11:30):
Music
SPEAKER_06 (11:34):
So what is your advice for someone who is in
their 30s, who's looking atgetting into angel investing and
maybe hasn't done anything likethat before and doesn't know
where to start?
What was like if I came to youtoday and was like, hey, I want
to start angel investing, but Ihave like$5,000.
That's it.
Where do I start?
SPEAKER_07 (11:52):
I mean, if you said, hey, I want to get started with
$5,000, I'd probably tell you,look, it's probably not an asset
class that makes sense for you.
Like at the very least, you'relooking at maybe$50,000 to get
started and then at least thatevery 18 to 24 months over a
period of time.
Generally, we say that you wantto get to a minimum of 20
investments, ideally 40.
(12:14):
Now, you don't have to do allthat at once.
It doesn't have to be in thefirst year.
For example, in five years in,I've made 32.
So it can be over a period oftime, but you have to have a
view to being able to build aportfolio.
The portfolio approach is thereason that those investors who
were early investors in Facebookand Uber and Airbnb is the
reason that they are sosuccessful is because they
didn't just invest in Uber andAirbnb and Facebook.
(12:37):
They invested in a portfolio ofcompanies of which those happen
to be within it.
We all wish that we could justmake three investments and there
are those three, but it does notwork that way.
So you have to build a portfolioin order to have a chance at
hitting on one of those megawinners.
So if you'd have come to me andsay, hey, I've got five grand, I
would advise you probably notthe best asset class for you to
(12:58):
come into.
But let's say you came to me andyou're like, hey, I really want
to get into this.
I want to build a portfolio.
Then my first push to you wouldbe to think about like why are
you why are you wanting to dothis and what's the goal is it
to build wealth if so in whattime frame and what for or is it
to grow your career or is it tolearn about a particular sector
(13:18):
and and what that looks like foryou because it's not something
you should get into lightly itis a lot of work I spend a lot
of time and a lot of effortfinding good deals to invest in
and sometimes I find somethingand then I still can't get into
the deal so this is it is a timeintensive thing now there are
ways to circumvent that andshortcut that namely joining a
syndicate so you can leveragethe work that someone else has
(13:39):
done but still it does involvetime so I would advise you if
you are actually I can't adviseanyone side note guys this is
not advice this is no type offinancial advice please take
note but I would say I wouldsuggest you may want to look
into joining syndicates becausesyndicates are a fantastic way
to learn so I run my ownsyndicate so fair warning I am
(14:01):
biased but I do think thatsyndicates are one of the best
ways to learn it's part of theway that I learned you
essentially just sign up and yousay hey I would love to know
next time you're investing insomething let me know and so I
have a whole bunch of investorsthat subscribe to my deal flow
and when I decide to invest insomething with my own personal
money I write up the notes onwhy I'm investing in that
company and it includes thingslike what's the problem they're
(14:22):
solving the solution the go tomarket the competition a whole
bunch of things and then I sharethat with all those people and I
go hey guys I'm investing inthis company here's why and then
they read that and some of themdecide, awesome, I'm going to
invest in the same thingalongside you, and they will
send money to the same place,and it gets sent to the company
in one go.
(14:42):
So, syndicates are a great wayto get started.
I would also really recommendeducation.
When I first started five yearsago, there was no angel
education.
It was, you know, learn on thego.
But now there's tons of greatprograms.
There's in-person ones that someof the universities run.
There's communities that some ofthe VCs run, like First
Believers and Airtree Explorers.
And then there's online ones,namely, again, shameless
(15:05):
self-promotion.
We run an online course calledVenture Academy and Angel
Academy.
It gives you a really greatbasis of, like, here's what you
need to know, here's how to getstarted.
I would not recommend that youget started without doing some
level of education and uh andfinding people to invest
alongside so don't just startwriting twenty thousand dollar
checks no i would not recommendthat at all do
SPEAKER_06 (15:25):
as i say not as i do
SPEAKER_07 (15:27):
yeah oh i wish i could go back and change my
initial journey i mean theyweren't the worst two checks i
could have written by all meansbut i definitely would have
chosen differently had i knowneverything that i know now So
you mentioned that there was alot of challenges in the early
days because of the networksthat you had or didn't have.
Didn't have.
How did that process kind ofchange for you?
(15:49):
How did you go and get in theright rooms to know the right
people?
I just kept bugging people.
Yeah, cool.
Just annoy people.
I love that.
Yeah, I did.
I just kept asking questions.
I kept...
showing up where I wasn'tnecessarily supposed to be.
I kept asking people to let mein.
I kept...
Literally, I asked a lot ofquestions.
And when you ask a lot ofquestions about investing,
(16:11):
people...
tend to be like, oh, well, youmust be interested in that.
Okay, like, how can I help?
And as I learned more and moreabout what I was supposed to be
doing, I got better at it andwas able to, again, convince
some founders to take my money.
And then when I was helpful tothose founders, it helped
convince the next set offounders to take my money.
And then when I was helpful forthem, it snowballed.
(16:31):
To their credit, there are a lotof investors in this country who
are very helpful.
You know, I called up some ofthe partners at Airtree and they
were really helpful.
I called up Kylie Fraser Icalled up Rain Ong and Matt
Brown at Black Nova, and it justsnowballed from there.
So I think reaching out isprobably one of the best things
(16:52):
that you can do.
Most of the investors in thiscountry are happy to help out if
that's the pathway that you wantto go down.
And I was just very insistent.
What you've described sounds alittle bit like a raft of sorts.
Does it now?
Yeah.
I would love to know...
what your raft of bitches oryour rafts in your life look
like.
You may have more than one raft.
(17:13):
What does your raft look likeand do you want to give a shout
out to anyone specific?
Yeah, I mean, is it only women?
No, whoever you want.
Okay.
Great.
I will call out a woman first,though.
Her name is Maxine Minter, andshe has been one of my biggest
champions and supporters sinceday one of starting Aussie
Angels, and I just learned somuch from her.
But there are a number ofinvestors that have been helpful
(17:34):
for me along the way, namelysome of the women partners at
Airtree Ventures.
Jax and Alicia are some of thebest champions of investors and
founders in general, but they'vebeen super helpful for me.
I will name some men now.
Matt Brown.
at Black Nova was actually oneof the first people to help me
get into deals that I wouldn'thave gotten into otherwise so if
(17:57):
you are just getting startedoften times you are you have to
decide or figure out whetheryou're considered a wholesale or
a retail investor and if you area retail investor meaning that
you're not wealthy then youdon't have access to invest in a
number of things and so he wasone of the first people that
helped me figure that out andget into something that I
wouldn't have gotten intootherwise so mad respect for him
(18:19):
and then and my team with AussieAngels, they are just some of
the, I couldn't ask for better.
And how important do you thinkit is for, both for investors,
but also for founders to havethat raft or network around
them?
Oh, so important.
first of all angel investing isa team sport there is no version
(18:39):
of this where you are successfulwithout being part of a team
like it is super collaborativeand if you are doing it on your
own without consulting otherpeople I like I would be willing
to bet you are not beingsuccessful so angel investing is
a team sport there's you have todo it with others and
collaborate I think being afounder is also a team sport in
many ways not least of whichthat you have a team around you
(19:02):
of course but foundersleveraging off peers is another
really important important pieceof that success factor because
it's really hard to be good ifyou don't see what good looks
like.
And that applies across a lot ofareas, angel investing included.
I see a lot of angel investorsgetting started and they tend to
invest in what they see.
And if they don't see what goodlooks like, i.e.
(19:24):
getting exposure to a reallygood company, then it's hard for
them to recognize that maybe thecompany that's in front of them
isn't necessarily the bestinvestment.
SPEAKER_06 (19:33):
That's a lot of information in a very short
period of time.
UNKNOWN (19:36):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_06 (19:41):
Can I ask you, what is your name?
Dr Amelia Harre.
I came here with my two podcastco-hosts.
Our podcast is called Raft ofBitches, which is, I'll explain
quickly because it sounds alittle bit.
Sounds amazing.
Female otters, called bitches,link arms with each other when
they fall asleep to stop anyonefrom floating away.
(20:02):
We kind of like the metaphor ofthat.
So I would like to ask you, whois in your raft?
SPEAKER_02 (20:08):
I've got so many wonderful women in my raft.
They are the ones that reallykeep me afloat.
So I've got women who I use asconsultants and advisors within
my business.
I've got my friends and myfamily and the women that
support me in that sense becausebusiness is a really hard game
and getting that emotionalsupport.
I've got female colleagues,female clients.
(20:29):
I couldn't agree with you more.
I feel like I am definitely withmy bitches.
SPEAKER_04 (20:35):
Love it.
My name's Petra Trinke.
I actually work forinternational education for the
state government.
SPEAKER_06 (20:41):
What's the best piece of advice that you've ever
received or is there a piece ofadvice that you like to give to
people?
SPEAKER_04 (20:47):
I think the best piece of advice that could only
be just for me is I had a pastprincipal say to me, Petra,
don't ever change.
Don't change for anyone.
Be true to yourself and you beyou.
And I've carried that throughoutmy career and I'm hoping that
(21:08):
people can live a bit of me andexperience me because I ain't
never going to change.
SPEAKER_06 (21:21):
So I've got a question for you, Cheryl,
because last year I wasfortunate enough to attend the
Breakfast for West Tech Fest.
So for those of you who don'treally know what West Tech Fest
is, it's a festival, what asurprise, that's held in Western
Australia.
And it's about investment andstartup sort of landscape in the
world, but I think predominantlyin Australia, from my
(21:43):
experience.
And this was the first eventthat I'd ever been to for West
Tech Fest and it was thebreakfast.
And I've got to say that you arenot representative of the
standard person that was at thatbreakfast.
They tended to be somewhat olderand somewhat maler.
Is maler a word?
(22:04):
It is now.
So less vagina in the room.
Yeah, correct.
Got it.
Correct.
Yeah, you're picking up what I'mputting down here, Cheryl.
So...
I have a question.
There was a lot of talk abouthow do we get more diversity in
the investment landscape.
And interestingly, it's fromboth sides.
So one of the things that wasbrought up is that most
investors are male.
(22:26):
But then also that mostinvestment goes into businesses
that are founded by men.
And I can see...
and obviously not being aninvestor myself and not having
firsthand experience with this,but I can see how not having
women investing would exacerbatethe problem of not having
investment in women.
What's your experience lookedlike in this space?
(22:49):
Have you got any sort ofpersonal experience that speaks
to this?
Yeah,
SPEAKER_07 (22:52):
absolutely.
So there's a concept that I callthe cycle of funding, which is
that...
typically, historically,founders have been more male
skewed.
Like there have been more malefounders than they have been
female founders, both here inAustralia and in the US.
And so what that means is thatthat creates a scenario where if
you are a male founding abusiness and you go out to raise
(23:15):
funding, the very first round offunding is usually called the
friends, family, and foolsround.
Now, if you are going out toyour friends and family, you
tend to, I think this is justhuman nature, you tend to
approach people that reflectyourself more.
And so males tend to have moremale friends.
(23:35):
That is just human nature,right?
As a generalization.
So they go to their friends whoare predominantly male and they
ask for money.
And those predominantly maleinvestors give their friend male
money.
That male uses the money to growtheir business and let's say
there's a big exit.
It's like Facebook and...
They all get rich.
Now, those male investors whonow have significant wealth from
(23:57):
doing so are better able to thengo and fund the next generation
of companies or start their owncompany.
Now, when they go to fund thenext company, they go, oh, well,
what does success look like?
I want to get a good returnagain.
Let me try to invest insomething similar that I just
invested in so that I can dowell.
They then become a founder whothen goes to their friends who
(24:18):
happen to be male.
And so the cycle starts again.
Either way, the cycle startsagain where predominantly male
founders get funded andpredominantly males get rich and
so on and so forth.
So this cycle of funding is notnecessarily their fault.
It's more down to human nature.
But it does mean that we have toconsciously try to break this,
both us as women trying to getinto these circles, but also men
(24:40):
consciously saying, OK, well,you know what?
Actually, I'm going to make aconscious choice to go out and
find a more diverse investorbase.
And so we need to break thecycle.
That's the main thing that Ithink we need to do.
It is a complex problem and Irecognize that there's, you
know, this is an area that isgoing to require a multifaceted
solution to it.
But the area that I think I caninfluence is breaking the cycle
(25:03):
and helping more women becomeinvestors if that's what they
want to do and get into dealsand be able to profit from
really big outcomes.
SPEAKER_06 (25:20):
My name is Carina Sharp.
I work for the government ofWestern Australia and whilst I'm
not directly involved in theevent, I have colleagues that
support it and I just wanted tocome down and see it for myself.
We're actually here obviouslyfor our podcast.
We just did a live recordingdown there and our podcast is
called The Raft of Bitches.
Now that you're from government,I feel a little bit awkward
(25:41):
about saying that, but basicallythe concept of it is women
supporting women.
So what we call your raft isyour support network, often of
other women who you know, helpyou with information, help you
when you're down, support you,help you take the next leap, all
of that kind of stuff.
Is there anyone in your raft?
Who is in your raft?
(26:01):
Good question.
I think having a good raft isreally important, and mine would
be, I think, a mix of people,including my family, so my mum
and my sister, definitely, butthen professionally as well.
I've been really lucky to workwith so many amazing women, both
my managers and colleagues, andhave benefited so much from
(26:22):
their guidance and support and Ithink that in turn has left such
an impression on me that I tryto do that now as well with my
team members and also I wouldthink for me as well I used to
play competitive levelvolleyball with a team of women.
You need that raft or you needto stick together and support
one another to be able toachieve that collective outcome
(26:43):
or goal so I think that my timein sport really highlighted the
importance of that as well.
Yeah nice and I love the idea ofbeing the raft that you were
given yourself.
That's lovely.
SPEAKER_00 (26:54):
My name is Simi Das and I'm an experimenter and
that's why I'm here to meet alot of people who have already
done experiments and probablydoing it.
So it's a nice place to catch upwith like-minded
SPEAKER_06 (27:10):
people.
We've just explained to you whata raft is.
Who is in your raft?
SPEAKER_00 (27:15):
I would say it's my family and few friends and my
little girls who believe in me.
SPEAKER_06 (27:23):
What is a piece of advice, the best piece of advice
that you have received or advicethat you would like to give out
maybe to your girls or whoever?
SPEAKER_00 (27:33):
We always think about a lot of other things.
We always underestimate thepower which is within us.
And I think that's yoursuperpower, believing in that
and ignoring all that noisearound yourself.
SPEAKER_06 (27:49):
Fantastic.
Thanks very much.
Thank you.
Hi, my name is Laura Potts.
So our podcast is called Raft ofBitches.
I know it.
Oh, you do?
Oh, great.
We're actually, I'm on thepodcast after you guys.
Oh, excellent.
So, yes, the New Beginnings one.
And can I ask you, if you'refamiliar with our podcast, are
(28:10):
you familiar with the concept ofthe raft?
Who is in your raft?
Well, I have to say myprofessional network because at
the Fogarty Foundation we're anentirely female team and the
women above me have done suchincredible things.
Our chair, Annie Fogarty, wasAustralian of the Year a few
years ago and just reallyamazing influences and then I
guess in my private life mysister she always calls herself
(28:33):
my biggest cheerleader and yeahI have to definitely count a lot
to her for sure.
Oh lovely my sister is also inmy raft I have to say.
Great bond isn't it?
Yeah it is.
SPEAKER_07 (28:49):
What's next for your show?
What's next?
It's a big question.
Yeah.
I mean, like, after this, I planto go out and have some drinks
with some people from thisconference.
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, no, you meant more of likea strategic.
For sure.
Either one, either way.
Yeah, look, I think for us atAussie Angels, it is about
(29:10):
making sure that emerging fundmanagers, and when I say
emerging fund managers, I meananyone who's making the shift
from investing their moneypersonally to managing other
people's money, whether as afund manager or maybe they're
just bringing their friendsalong and making introductions,
or maybe they're starting asyndicate.
But we want to give that groupof people superpowers to be able
(29:31):
to really supercharge ourecosystem and help drive funding
into their hands, but also forthem into the next generation of
world-changing startups.
And we have no shortage of themin Australia.
What I do believe that we needto support better is emerging
fund managers and give them thetools they need because while
I'm not you know we're notspecifically focused on women
(29:53):
but if you break down barriersit tends to benefit women more
than other demographics it tendsto benefit minority demographics
than others
SPEAKER_05 (30:02):
yeah
SPEAKER_07 (30:03):
I have a little bit of a different question for you
there's a lot of people that Ithink are a bit scared about
tech generally and aboutstartups because they there's so
much they don't know andunderstand and things move so
quickly they're like how do Istay educated and stay up to
date on what's going on whenthings move really quickly do
you have any words of advice forpeople who are just like oh
(30:25):
Cheryl can do that because she'ssuper smart but how do I do that
because I don't know what'sgoing on and it seems really
intimidating to me from theoutside do you have any advice
for those listeners who might belistening to the show I think
that's a really interestingperspective and I would first
question what is that fear andmaybe let's get to the root of
that is it a fear of being leftbehind is it a fear of feeling
(30:50):
inadequate or embarrassed, andtry to understand where that
fear is coming from, because Isuspect that it is not a fear of
technology itself, but a fear ofsome type of deep-rooted emotion
that we could probably address.
Once we've addressed that, mynext push would be that this
isn't an all-or-nothing game.
There is so much more that Idon't know even if I seem like
(31:14):
I'm across a lot of technology,there's always somebody who
knows more than me.
And there is definitely somebodythat knows more than me in a
particular field of technology.
I'm one of those generalists.
I know just enough abouteverything to be dangerous.
But I know there's very littlethat I know very deep about.
So if you were one of thosepeople that's like, hey, I'd
(31:34):
really love to get to know alittle bit more, like, You can
start on the internet by justGoogling a couple of your
favorite topics.
I guarantee you there is somesort of newsletter out there
that you can start to read.
Newsletters are great.
They're a really low commitmentway to start to learn.
And then the next thing I wouldsay is start going to events.
You can go to events and almostanonymously ask some really dumb
(31:56):
questions and start to learn abit about anything that you're
interested in.
Or don't ask questions and justsit and learn and you'd be
surprised at how far you'll get.
That's great advice.
And perhaps a little plug forWest Tech Fest, you could come
to an event just like this.
Yes, show up at this event.
Man, if you just walked aroundand talked to all of the
exhibitors here and just askedthem, like, hey, so what is
(32:17):
this?
Tell me about yourbattery-powered bike.
Tell me about your super-fastelectric charger.
Like, they are just happy toshare.
So you just learn a lot byasking each person at their
booth what their thing does.
I
SPEAKER_06 (32:30):
love that.
Cheryl, how can our listenershelp you?
Who are the people that that youneed in your raft.
You mentioned the place that youwant to go next.
Do you want to grow AussieAngels?
Do you want to get more peopleon board, more diversity on
board?
If we met someone, who would bethe ideal person for us to
connect with you or connect withyour network?
SPEAKER_07 (32:50):
Yeah, so first I would say that if you are at all
angel curious, being at allinterested in angel investing.
Angel curious.
If you are angel curious, yeah.
Even if you don't have the fundsto actually start to invest yet,
but if you want to learn moreabout this space, it's
incredibly interesting.
So I would welcome you to go towww.venture.academy.
(33:11):
We run an online course.
It's self-paced, online, couplehours, but absolutely packed
full of really, really greatinsights from investors all over
the country.
So I would encourage you to dothat.
And special, you know what?
Because I like your listenersand we're here at West Tech
Fest, you can all have 20% offthe course.
So use the code WTF West TechFest, all capitals 20.
(33:35):
And then my ask would be that ifyou know of anybody out there
who is angel curious or who islooking to up their investment
game, please send them my way.
I love being known as the angelSherpa, the place to write your
first angel check, the place tostart to learn Learn about angel
investing and the place to getinto early stage ventures.
So if you know of anyone or ifyou hear in passing, someone's
(33:57):
like, oh, I've been thinkingabout getting into angel
investing.
Be like, hey, have you heard ofAussie Angels?
Go check out Aussie Angels.
I love that so much.
Thank you so much for being onthe show, Cheryl.
So there's actually two reasonsthat drew me to you, other than
that you're here in Perth, whichis a limited resource.
But you're LinkedIn, you'rewearing this ridiculously
adorable unicorn hat.
And I'm like, she's one of us.
A little bit of fun, a littlebit of sparkle.
(34:18):
And other reason is my mom'sname is also Cheryl.
And it's spelled the same way,which is not as common.
Yeah, it's a bit of an olderperson's name.
I was named after my dad'ssister who passed away very
young.
So I can imagine when that namemight have been popular was a
few years ago.
But I like my name.
Yeah, it's not common.
It's great.
Yeah.
When we were talking about youon the show, my phone kept
(34:41):
auto-correcting to Cheryl Cowan.
So shout out to my mom if she'slistening.
SPEAKER_06 (34:45):
Hello,
SPEAKER_07 (34:45):
Cheryl,
SPEAKER_06 (34:46):
on the show.
Excellent.
And Cheryl with a C.
Yes.
How can people connect with youif they want to reach out and
pick your brain about something?
SPEAKER_07 (34:54):
Yeah, for sure.
A number of ways.
You can jump on the AussieAngels website and just shoot a
message to our contact support,which is, I think, hello at
aussieangels.com.
You can also jump on LinkedInand find me.
I'm very easy to find.
I have a unicorn hat on.
So if you search Cheryl, youusually don't even have to put
my last name because the firstthing that comes up is me with a
unicorn hat.
I am not the best at LinkedInmessaging, but my email that is
(35:17):
on my LinkedIn is an email thatI use and you can reach out to
me there.
Amazing.
Thank you so much, Cheryl.
Unfortunately, once again, weare utterly out of time.
SPEAKER_06 (35:28):
That's right.
But if you have a fun storyabout either being a founder or
you're dabbling in angelinvestment we'd love to hear
from you and where can peoplereach us we are on instagram at
raft podcast or you can emailhello at raftpodcast.com and for
previous episodes or to find outmore don't forget to check out
(35:50):
our website raftpodcast.comthanks for listening rafters
catch you next time Yeah,exactly.
(36:15):
I think we should all feel verygood about our level of
professionalism because it'sobviously going to be great.
What do you think, Kate?
SPEAKER_03 (36:22):
I totally agree.
What could go wrong with thiswhole situation?
SPEAKER_06 (36:24):
We're so prepared.
I'm thinking nothing at all.
I'm thinking it's going to beperfect from start to finish.
SPEAKER_04 (36:31):
Flawless.
Flawless.
music music
SPEAKER_06 (00:13):
For centuries, we've been told that women are each
other's worst enemies.
But in reality, we're more likeotters than queen bees.
Female otters, bitches, if youwill, join hands with each other
to create rafts that stop themfrom drifting apart and losing
each other while they're asleep.
Thriving women have one thing incommon.
In our experience, they havetight-knit circles of other
(00:35):
women who helped them get thereby providing information and
support.
Each episode, we shine a lighton an amazing woman and give her
a platform to share with us herstory, her passion, and the raft
of bitches that are supportingus, or her.
Today, we are joined by Cheryl,and it is a little noisy around
us right now because we are liverecording from West Tech Fest.
(00:57):
So I'm here with my co-host,Kate Kirwan.
A fun fact about Kate, she'sactually just returned a couple
of days ago from the US, whereshe was touring around on a
diplomatic visa of some sort,which is like such a flex.
There was pretty fun being like,I'm actually a guest of the US
SPEAKER_07 (01:15):
State Department.
I'm joined by my co-host JoMinnie today.
And a fun fact about Jo is thatshe has what Cheryl just
described as an advent calendarof Christmas outfits.
So she has a separate shirt andearring for every single day of
December in the lead up toChristmas.
And she is rocking one rightnow.
SPEAKER_06 (01:37):
It's true.
It says, tell me what you want,what you really, really want.
A famous Christmas carol by theSpice Girls.
I love it.
We're joined
SPEAKER_07 (01:44):
by a wonderful guest today, Cheryl Mack.
And I have a little spiel thatI'm going to read you about
Cheryl.
She arrived in Australia in 2015and pretty quickly became what
the Australian newspaper hasdescribed as a force to be
reckoned with in the localstartup scene.
She was the CEO of StartCon, ranthe largest startup conference
in Australia, creating the Pitchfor One Million competition
(02:07):
She's also the strategic advisorfor several startups and in her
spare time mentors quite a lotin different programs.
She's an active angel investorwith a lot of different
investments under her belt andshe's now the CEO of Aussie
Angels.
She's on a mission todemocratize angel investing in
Australia and New Zealand andwe're going to find out a little
(02:28):
bit more how.
Welcome to the show Cheryl.
Thank you so much for having meand I'm excited to be here while
we're at West Tech Fest.
Yeah we're gonna kick off with alittle bit of an icebreaker.
So the icebreaker that you'vepicked for us today, Cheryl, is
your favorite quote.
Would you like to tell us whatit is and why it's your favorite
quote?
Yes.
So my favorite quote is, ventureinvesting is like watching paint
(02:50):
dry.
If you want excitement, go toLas Vegas.
And I realized after I said it,I probably should have
remembered who said the quote,but I do not remember who said
the quote.
I just remember liking thatquote.
So apologies to whoever said itthat I can't remember.
That's a great quote, and I didjust come back from Las
SPEAKER_06 (03:05):
Vegas, so this is also very topical.
I love that.
I also love that watching paintdry, boring as hell, takes a
really long time, but the endresult, worth it.
Yeah, exactly.
It's an investment.
It is an investment in time andboredom.
All right, so today we are goingto be talking a little bit about
investment and a little bitabout what you do at Aussie
(03:26):
Angels.
So just to get us started,because while a lot of our
audience might be across thisalready, for those who aren't,
can you explain to us a littlebit what an angel investor
actually is?
SPEAKER_07 (03:38):
Yeah, for sure.
So an angel investor istypically somebody who is
investing in companies at thevery, very earliest stages,
typically before they haverevenue, before they have
customers, sometimes before theyeven have a product.
And they're called angelinvestors because emphasis on
the angel, because they comedown and bestow upon poor, risky
(03:59):
companies with nothing.
Here's my money and go buildsomething.
So that's where the term angelcomes from.
But they're essentially privateindividuals investing their own
personal money into really earlystage, very risky businesses.
And how did you get started inangel investing, putting your
own money on the line?
Was it really nerve wrackingwhen you first started?
How did you actually make thatfirst investment?
(04:22):
Kind of, but not really.
No, I almost fell into it.
I was working for a couple ofstartups just for sweat equity.
So like working in exchange forequity in the company.
So I was like, oh, that's notlike investing.
And so I was doing that and Iwas talking to one of the
founders after work one day, youknow, having a drink.
And he was like, oh yeah, we'rejust trying to close our round.
I was like, cool.
How much do you have left?
(04:43):
He's like, oh, about 20 grand.
I was like, oh, interesting.
I thought that in order to angelinvest, you had to invest like
hundreds of thousands of dollarsthat like, you know, you had to
put that much into one company.
You just need 20?
Okay, I could do that.
It helps you get back to runningthe company, and we can go on
our merry way.
I was like, all right, sweet,done.
(05:03):
And then that happened againwith another startup that I was
working with, and then I waslike, ooh, hmm, interesting.
I think this is angel investing,and maybe I should learn what
I'm doing before I keep doingthis.
And so I called up a number ofmy investor friends, people that
knew a lot more about thesethings than I did, and I said,
hey, I think I started angelinvesting by accident.
Tell me everything I need toknow.
(05:24):
Go.
And so first they were like,well, so the bad news is that
you're probably going to losethe money that you've already
invested because there's no wayyou knew what you were doing.
So pretty likely you're going tolose that money.
But the good news is that if youstop now and don't make any more
investments, you won't lose anymore money.
And I was like, oh, hmm, well,that doesn't sound...
(05:44):
Is there an option B?
And they were like, yeah, yeah.
Are you sure you want to hearit?
Because option B is you writeanother 18 or so checks.
And then you might have a chanceat making it all back and then
some.
And I was like, okay, great.
I'll go with that option.
SPEAKER_06 (05:59):
Wow.
That's a ballsy move rightthere.
SPEAKER_07 (06:02):
Yeah.
And now I'm 32 individualcompany investments in.
So...
SPEAKER_06 (06:08):
That's insanity.
And I know that one of thethings that you're involved with
is what you like to refer to, Ithink, as democratizing angel
investment.
Can you tell us a little bitabout what that looks like and
how is that different fromsomeone just giving away$200,000
to a potential investment?
SPEAKER_07 (06:28):
Well, it's not that different.
So the thing is, this is anasset class.
It's within the alternativebucket, alternative investment
bucket.
I mean, it's a subsection.
which is early stage venture,which is a high risk, high
reward asset, which means thatthere's a really big likelihood
that you're going to lose yourmoney on any individual
(06:48):
investment.
But there's also a very smalllikelihood that you do really,
really well.
And when I say really, reallywell, I mean like on an
individual investment, the onesthat do really well could like
thousand to three thousand xreturn so like i give you a
dollar and you give me threethousand dollars back like
that's a crazy return right sothere is incentives to go down
(07:10):
this route and those who do thisreally well are very very very
wealthy there's a reason thatthe guy who invested in uber in
the early days and facebook inthe early days are now
billionaires it's because ofthis concept of being able to
invest in these risky businessesand get a really really good
return that's not to say thatevery single one will, but that
(07:32):
this is the potential.
So all of that is context to saythat this ability to invest in
this asset class has typicallybeen restricted to very wealthy
individuals.
But it doesn't need to be likethat because a lot of the time
startups are actually lookingfor what we call smart money.
They want investors to come inwho can not only provide cash,
(07:53):
but also provide expertise andstrategic value.
And a lot of the people that canprovide that expertise and
strategic value aren'tnecessarily the people who can
write$100,000 checks.
And so, for example, when Istarted angel investing and I
was told, go make a whole bunchof other investments, I was
like, okay, well, the first twoI wrote were 20K each.
If I have to go make another 18,I probably can't keep writing
20K checks.
(08:14):
I need to write smaller checksso that I can make more
investments.
And so I started trying to getinto deals where I could write a
10k check and found thatextremely difficult my check was
small I wasn't very well knownother angels didn't want to have
me on like around like in thecap table or in the deal with
them and and so it was reallydifficult but I did manage to
(08:34):
talk my way into a number ofinvestments and then fast
forward a couple years and Istarted getting other investors
coming to me being like hey canI get in on that like how do I
invest alongside you and I foundmyself being like oh I don't
know your check size is kind ofsmall so I was like wait this is
so silly.
We should be able to open upbetter pathways for investors
who want to access this assetclass to be able to invest in
(08:57):
these types of companies becausethey are smart.
They are usually at a period oflife where it makes sense to
take more risk.
Like if you are young, investingin riskier things makes a whole
lot more sense than when youwere older.
Unfortunately, the way that theregulations are set up, it
usually means that they tend tobe more accessible to older
(09:18):
people who have more assets andincome.
So we are on a mission to openup access to this asset class
for those who want it.
It doesn't make sense foreverybody, but for those who
want to get involved ininvesting in early-stage tech
businesses, then we want to makethat possible.
SPEAKER_06 (09:33):
So I can see that there's a really important
aspect there, not just of givingthis opportunity to younger
people, but also having peoplewho, as you said, are in that
time of their life where theycan be riskier, but also
potentially are going to be morealigned with what a lot of these
startups are doing.
I know for a fact that my fatheris probably not going to
(09:54):
understand the nuances ofinvesting in a tech business
that's doing something that'sreally new and different,
whereas my husband, who works intech, is a lot more likely to do
that.
100%, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (10:06):
What
SPEAKER_05 (10:12):
is your name?
My name is Isabelle Charter.
And what brought you to WestTech Fest today?
I was a panelist at the investorpanel to talk about angel
investing.
SPEAKER_06 (10:24):
Oh, exciting.
And how did that go for you?
SPEAKER_05 (10:26):
Yeah, it was very, very cool.
It was a very interestingdiscussion.
SPEAKER_06 (10:30):
So we were here today to do a live recording of
our podcast, Raft of Bitches.
We've explained to you what araft is.
Can you tell me who is in yourraft?
SPEAKER_05 (10:40):
In my raft, oh, I have too many people.
Definitely my sisters are bigones there.
My partner, big one there.
And I have lots of friends.
I think in each area of yourlife, you need a raft.
So I do triathlon.
I have my gym crew, you know.
I have my work crew.
(11:00):
So I think really knowing what'simportant to you and the people
who value those same thingsmakes a huge difference.
SPEAKER_06 (11:07):
Yeah, great.
I love that.
A different raft for every kid.
SPEAKER_03 (11:09):
Exactly.
My name is Alena Cerides.
SPEAKER_06 (11:13):
And what's the best advice that you've ever received
or what's your advice that youlike to go out with to other
people?
SPEAKER_03 (11:20):
Don't be afraid to get out there, shine your light,
twinkle your sparkle and connectwith people because there's so
much out there and you willnever know if you don't reach
out and see.
UNKNOWN (11:30):
Music
SPEAKER_06 (11:34):
So what is your advice for someone who is in
their 30s, who's looking atgetting into angel investing and
maybe hasn't done anything likethat before and doesn't know
where to start?
What was like if I came to youtoday and was like, hey, I want
to start angel investing, but Ihave like$5,000.
That's it.
Where do I start?
SPEAKER_07 (11:52):
I mean, if you said, hey, I want to get started with
$5,000, I'd probably tell you,look, it's probably not an asset
class that makes sense for you.
Like at the very least, you'relooking at maybe$50,000 to get
started and then at least thatevery 18 to 24 months over a
period of time.
Generally, we say that you wantto get to a minimum of 20
investments, ideally 40.
(12:14):
Now, you don't have to do allthat at once.
It doesn't have to be in thefirst year.
For example, in five years in,I've made 32.
So it can be over a period oftime, but you have to have a
view to being able to build aportfolio.
The portfolio approach is thereason that those investors who
were early investors in Facebookand Uber and Airbnb is the
reason that they are sosuccessful is because they
didn't just invest in Uber andAirbnb and Facebook.
(12:37):
They invested in a portfolio ofcompanies of which those happen
to be within it.
We all wish that we could justmake three investments and there
are those three, but it does notwork that way.
So you have to build a portfolioin order to have a chance at
hitting on one of those megawinners.
So if you'd have come to me andsay, hey, I've got five grand, I
would advise you probably notthe best asset class for you to
(12:58):
come into.
But let's say you came to me andyou're like, hey, I really want
to get into this.
I want to build a portfolio.
Then my first push to you wouldbe to think about like why are
you why are you wanting to dothis and what's the goal is it
to build wealth if so in whattime frame and what for or is it
to grow your career or is it tolearn about a particular sector
(13:18):
and and what that looks like foryou because it's not something
you should get into lightly itis a lot of work I spend a lot
of time and a lot of effortfinding good deals to invest in
and sometimes I find somethingand then I still can't get into
the deal so this is it is a timeintensive thing now there are
ways to circumvent that andshortcut that namely joining a
syndicate so you can leveragethe work that someone else has
(13:39):
done but still it does involvetime so I would advise you if
you are actually I can't adviseanyone side note guys this is
not advice this is no type offinancial advice please take
note but I would say I wouldsuggest you may want to look
into joining syndicates becausesyndicates are a fantastic way
to learn so I run my ownsyndicate so fair warning I am
(14:01):
biased but I do think thatsyndicates are one of the best
ways to learn it's part of theway that I learned you
essentially just sign up and yousay hey I would love to know
next time you're investing insomething let me know and so I
have a whole bunch of investorsthat subscribe to my deal flow
and when I decide to invest insomething with my own personal
money I write up the notes onwhy I'm investing in that
company and it includes thingslike what's the problem they're
(14:22):
solving the solution the go tomarket the competition a whole
bunch of things and then I sharethat with all those people and I
go hey guys I'm investing inthis company here's why and then
they read that and some of themdecide, awesome, I'm going to
invest in the same thingalongside you, and they will
send money to the same place,and it gets sent to the company
in one go.
(14:42):
So, syndicates are a great wayto get started.
I would also really recommendeducation.
When I first started five yearsago, there was no angel
education.
It was, you know, learn on thego.
But now there's tons of greatprograms.
There's in-person ones that someof the universities run.
There's communities that some ofthe VCs run, like First
Believers and Airtree Explorers.
And then there's online ones,namely, again, shameless
(15:05):
self-promotion.
We run an online course calledVenture Academy and Angel
Academy.
It gives you a really greatbasis of, like, here's what you
need to know, here's how to getstarted.
I would not recommend that youget started without doing some
level of education and uh andfinding people to invest
alongside so don't just startwriting twenty thousand dollar
checks no i would not recommendthat at all do
SPEAKER_06 (15:25):
as i say not as i do
SPEAKER_07 (15:27):
yeah oh i wish i could go back and change my
initial journey i mean theyweren't the worst two checks i
could have written by all meansbut i definitely would have
chosen differently had i knowneverything that i know now So
you mentioned that there was alot of challenges in the early
days because of the networksthat you had or didn't have.
Didn't have.
How did that process kind ofchange for you?
(15:49):
How did you go and get in theright rooms to know the right
people?
I just kept bugging people.
Yeah, cool.
Just annoy people.
I love that.
Yeah, I did.
I just kept asking questions.
I kept...
showing up where I wasn'tnecessarily supposed to be.
I kept asking people to let mein.
I kept...
Literally, I asked a lot ofquestions.
And when you ask a lot ofquestions about investing,
(16:11):
people...
tend to be like, oh, well, youmust be interested in that.
Okay, like, how can I help?
And as I learned more and moreabout what I was supposed to be
doing, I got better at it andwas able to, again, convince
some founders to take my money.
And then when I was helpful tothose founders, it helped
convince the next set offounders to take my money.
And then when I was helpful forthem, it snowballed.
(16:31):
To their credit, there are a lotof investors in this country who
are very helpful.
You know, I called up some ofthe partners at Airtree and they
were really helpful.
I called up Kylie Fraser Icalled up Rain Ong and Matt
Brown at Black Nova, and it justsnowballed from there.
So I think reaching out isprobably one of the best things
(16:52):
that you can do.
Most of the investors in thiscountry are happy to help out if
that's the pathway that you wantto go down.
And I was just very insistent.
What you've described sounds alittle bit like a raft of sorts.
Does it now?
Yeah.
I would love to know...
what your raft of bitches oryour rafts in your life look
like.
You may have more than one raft.
(17:13):
What does your raft look likeand do you want to give a shout
out to anyone specific?
Yeah, I mean, is it only women?
No, whoever you want.
Okay.
Great.
I will call out a woman first,though.
Her name is Maxine Minter, andshe has been one of my biggest
champions and supporters sinceday one of starting Aussie
Angels, and I just learned somuch from her.
But there are a number ofinvestors that have been helpful
(17:34):
for me along the way, namelysome of the women partners at
Airtree Ventures.
Jax and Alicia are some of thebest champions of investors and
founders in general, but they'vebeen super helpful for me.
I will name some men now.
Matt Brown.
at Black Nova was actually oneof the first people to help me
get into deals that I wouldn'thave gotten into otherwise so if
(17:57):
you are just getting startedoften times you are you have to
decide or figure out whetheryou're considered a wholesale or
a retail investor and if you area retail investor meaning that
you're not wealthy then youdon't have access to invest in a
number of things and so he wasone of the first people that
helped me figure that out andget into something that I
wouldn't have gotten intootherwise so mad respect for him
(18:19):
and then and my team with AussieAngels, they are just some of
the, I couldn't ask for better.
And how important do you thinkit is for, both for investors,
but also for founders to havethat raft or network around
them?
Oh, so important.
first of all angel investing isa team sport there is no version
(18:39):
of this where you are successfulwithout being part of a team
like it is super collaborativeand if you are doing it on your
own without consulting otherpeople I like I would be willing
to bet you are not beingsuccessful so angel investing is
a team sport there's you have todo it with others and
collaborate I think being afounder is also a team sport in
many ways not least of whichthat you have a team around you
(19:02):
of course but foundersleveraging off peers is another
really important important pieceof that success factor because
it's really hard to be good ifyou don't see what good looks
like.
And that applies across a lot ofareas, angel investing included.
I see a lot of angel investorsgetting started and they tend to
invest in what they see.
And if they don't see what goodlooks like, i.e.
(19:24):
getting exposure to a reallygood company, then it's hard for
them to recognize that maybe thecompany that's in front of them
isn't necessarily the bestinvestment.
SPEAKER_06 (19:33):
That's a lot of information in a very short
period of time.
UNKNOWN (19:36):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_06 (19:41):
Can I ask you, what is your name?
Dr Amelia Harre.
I came here with my two podcastco-hosts.
Our podcast is called Raft ofBitches, which is, I'll explain
quickly because it sounds alittle bit.
Sounds amazing.
Female otters, called bitches,link arms with each other when
they fall asleep to stop anyonefrom floating away.
(20:02):
We kind of like the metaphor ofthat.
So I would like to ask you, whois in your raft?
SPEAKER_02 (20:08):
I've got so many wonderful women in my raft.
They are the ones that reallykeep me afloat.
So I've got women who I use asconsultants and advisors within
my business.
I've got my friends and myfamily and the women that
support me in that sense becausebusiness is a really hard game
and getting that emotionalsupport.
I've got female colleagues,female clients.
(20:29):
I couldn't agree with you more.
I feel like I am definitely withmy bitches.
SPEAKER_04 (20:35):
Love it.
My name's Petra Trinke.
I actually work forinternational education for the
state government.
SPEAKER_06 (20:41):
What's the best piece of advice that you've ever
received or is there a piece ofadvice that you like to give to
people?
SPEAKER_04 (20:47):
I think the best piece of advice that could only
be just for me is I had a pastprincipal say to me, Petra,
don't ever change.
Don't change for anyone.
Be true to yourself and you beyou.
And I've carried that throughoutmy career and I'm hoping that
(21:08):
people can live a bit of me andexperience me because I ain't
never going to change.
SPEAKER_06 (21:21):
So I've got a question for you, Cheryl,
because last year I wasfortunate enough to attend the
Breakfast for West Tech Fest.
So for those of you who don'treally know what West Tech Fest
is, it's a festival, what asurprise, that's held in Western
Australia.
And it's about investment andstartup sort of landscape in the
world, but I think predominantlyin Australia, from my
(21:43):
experience.
And this was the first eventthat I'd ever been to for West
Tech Fest and it was thebreakfast.
And I've got to say that you arenot representative of the
standard person that was at thatbreakfast.
They tended to be somewhat olderand somewhat maler.
Is maler a word?
(22:04):
It is now.
So less vagina in the room.
Yeah, correct.
Got it.
Correct.
Yeah, you're picking up what I'mputting down here, Cheryl.
So...
I have a question.
There was a lot of talk abouthow do we get more diversity in
the investment landscape.
And interestingly, it's fromboth sides.
So one of the things that wasbrought up is that most
investors are male.
(22:26):
But then also that mostinvestment goes into businesses
that are founded by men.
And I can see...
and obviously not being aninvestor myself and not having
firsthand experience with this,but I can see how not having
women investing would exacerbatethe problem of not having
investment in women.
What's your experience lookedlike in this space?
(22:49):
Have you got any sort ofpersonal experience that speaks
to this?
Yeah,
SPEAKER_07 (22:52):
absolutely.
So there's a concept that I callthe cycle of funding, which is
that...
typically, historically,founders have been more male
skewed.
Like there have been more malefounders than they have been
female founders, both here inAustralia and in the US.
And so what that means is thatthat creates a scenario where if
you are a male founding abusiness and you go out to raise
(23:15):
funding, the very first round offunding is usually called the
friends, family, and foolsround.
Now, if you are going out toyour friends and family, you
tend to, I think this is justhuman nature, you tend to
approach people that reflectyourself more.
And so males tend to have moremale friends.
(23:35):
That is just human nature,right?
As a generalization.
So they go to their friends whoare predominantly male and they
ask for money.
And those predominantly maleinvestors give their friend male
money.
That male uses the money to growtheir business and let's say
there's a big exit.
It's like Facebook and...
They all get rich.
Now, those male investors whonow have significant wealth from
(23:57):
doing so are better able to thengo and fund the next generation
of companies or start their owncompany.
Now, when they go to fund thenext company, they go, oh, well,
what does success look like?
I want to get a good returnagain.
Let me try to invest insomething similar that I just
invested in so that I can dowell.
They then become a founder whothen goes to their friends who
(24:18):
happen to be male.
And so the cycle starts again.
Either way, the cycle startsagain where predominantly male
founders get funded andpredominantly males get rich and
so on and so forth.
So this cycle of funding is notnecessarily their fault.
It's more down to human nature.
But it does mean that we have toconsciously try to break this,
both us as women trying to getinto these circles, but also men
(24:40):
consciously saying, OK, well,you know what?
Actually, I'm going to make aconscious choice to go out and
find a more diverse investorbase.
And so we need to break thecycle.
That's the main thing that Ithink we need to do.
It is a complex problem and Irecognize that there's, you
know, this is an area that isgoing to require a multifaceted
solution to it.
But the area that I think I caninfluence is breaking the cycle
(25:03):
and helping more women becomeinvestors if that's what they
want to do and get into dealsand be able to profit from
really big outcomes.
SPEAKER_06 (25:20):
My name is Carina Sharp.
I work for the government ofWestern Australia and whilst I'm
not directly involved in theevent, I have colleagues that
support it and I just wanted tocome down and see it for myself.
We're actually here obviouslyfor our podcast.
We just did a live recordingdown there and our podcast is
called The Raft of Bitches.
Now that you're from government,I feel a little bit awkward
(25:41):
about saying that, but basicallythe concept of it is women
supporting women.
So what we call your raft isyour support network, often of
other women who you know, helpyou with information, help you
when you're down, support you,help you take the next leap, all
of that kind of stuff.
Is there anyone in your raft?
Who is in your raft?
(26:01):
Good question.
I think having a good raft isreally important, and mine would
be, I think, a mix of people,including my family, so my mum
and my sister, definitely, butthen professionally as well.
I've been really lucky to workwith so many amazing women, both
my managers and colleagues, andhave benefited so much from
(26:22):
their guidance and support and Ithink that in turn has left such
an impression on me that I tryto do that now as well with my
team members and also I wouldthink for me as well I used to
play competitive levelvolleyball with a team of women.
You need that raft or you needto stick together and support
one another to be able toachieve that collective outcome
(26:43):
or goal so I think that my timein sport really highlighted the
importance of that as well.
Yeah nice and I love the idea ofbeing the raft that you were
given yourself.
That's lovely.
SPEAKER_00 (26:54):
My name is Simi Das and I'm an experimenter and
that's why I'm here to meet alot of people who have already
done experiments and probablydoing it.
So it's a nice place to catch upwith like-minded
SPEAKER_06 (27:10):
people.
We've just explained to you whata raft is.
Who is in your raft?
SPEAKER_00 (27:15):
I would say it's my family and few friends and my
little girls who believe in me.
SPEAKER_06 (27:23):
What is a piece of advice, the best piece of advice
that you have received or advicethat you would like to give out
maybe to your girls or whoever?
SPEAKER_00 (27:33):
We always think about a lot of other things.
We always underestimate thepower which is within us.
And I think that's yoursuperpower, believing in that
and ignoring all that noisearound yourself.
SPEAKER_06 (27:49):
Fantastic.
Thanks very much.
Thank you.
Hi, my name is Laura Potts.
So our podcast is called Raft ofBitches.
I know it.
Oh, you do?
Oh, great.
We're actually, I'm on thepodcast after you guys.
Oh, excellent.
So, yes, the New Beginnings one.
And can I ask you, if you'refamiliar with our podcast, are
(28:10):
you familiar with the concept ofthe raft?
Who is in your raft?
Well, I have to say myprofessional network because at
the Fogarty Foundation we're anentirely female team and the
women above me have done suchincredible things.
Our chair, Annie Fogarty, wasAustralian of the Year a few
years ago and just reallyamazing influences and then I
guess in my private life mysister she always calls herself
(28:33):
my biggest cheerleader and yeahI have to definitely count a lot
to her for sure.
Oh lovely my sister is also inmy raft I have to say.
Great bond isn't it?
Yeah it is.
SPEAKER_07 (28:49):
What's next for your show?
What's next?
It's a big question.
Yeah.
I mean, like, after this, I planto go out and have some drinks
with some people from thisconference.
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, no, you meant more of likea strategic.
For sure.
Either one, either way.
Yeah, look, I think for us atAussie Angels, it is about
(29:10):
making sure that emerging fundmanagers, and when I say
emerging fund managers, I meananyone who's making the shift
from investing their moneypersonally to managing other
people's money, whether as afund manager or maybe they're
just bringing their friendsalong and making introductions,
or maybe they're starting asyndicate.
But we want to give that groupof people superpowers to be able
(29:31):
to really supercharge ourecosystem and help drive funding
into their hands, but also forthem into the next generation of
world-changing startups.
And we have no shortage of themin Australia.
What I do believe that we needto support better is emerging
fund managers and give them thetools they need because while
I'm not you know we're notspecifically focused on women
(29:53):
but if you break down barriersit tends to benefit women more
than other demographics it tendsto benefit minority demographics
than others
SPEAKER_05 (30:02):
yeah
SPEAKER_07 (30:03):
I have a little bit of a different question for you
there's a lot of people that Ithink are a bit scared about
tech generally and aboutstartups because they there's so
much they don't know andunderstand and things move so
quickly they're like how do Istay educated and stay up to
date on what's going on whenthings move really quickly do
you have any words of advice forpeople who are just like oh
(30:25):
Cheryl can do that because she'ssuper smart but how do I do that
because I don't know what'sgoing on and it seems really
intimidating to me from theoutside do you have any advice
for those listeners who might belistening to the show I think
that's a really interestingperspective and I would first
question what is that fear andmaybe let's get to the root of
that is it a fear of being leftbehind is it a fear of feeling
(30:50):
inadequate or embarrassed, andtry to understand where that
fear is coming from, because Isuspect that it is not a fear of
technology itself, but a fear ofsome type of deep-rooted emotion
that we could probably address.
Once we've addressed that, mynext push would be that this
isn't an all-or-nothing game.
There is so much more that Idon't know even if I seem like
(31:14):
I'm across a lot of technology,there's always somebody who
knows more than me.
And there is definitely somebodythat knows more than me in a
particular field of technology.
I'm one of those generalists.
I know just enough abouteverything to be dangerous.
But I know there's very littlethat I know very deep about.
So if you were one of thosepeople that's like, hey, I'd
(31:34):
really love to get to know alittle bit more, like, You can
start on the internet by justGoogling a couple of your
favorite topics.
I guarantee you there is somesort of newsletter out there
that you can start to read.
Newsletters are great.
They're a really low commitmentway to start to learn.
And then the next thing I wouldsay is start going to events.
You can go to events and almostanonymously ask some really dumb
(31:56):
questions and start to learn abit about anything that you're
interested in.
Or don't ask questions and justsit and learn and you'd be
surprised at how far you'll get.
That's great advice.
And perhaps a little plug forWest Tech Fest, you could come
to an event just like this.
Yes, show up at this event.
Man, if you just walked aroundand talked to all of the
exhibitors here and just askedthem, like, hey, so what is
(32:17):
this?
Tell me about yourbattery-powered bike.
Tell me about your super-fastelectric charger.
Like, they are just happy toshare.
So you just learn a lot byasking each person at their
booth what their thing does.
I
SPEAKER_06 (32:30):
love that.
Cheryl, how can our listenershelp you?
Who are the people that that youneed in your raft.
You mentioned the place that youwant to go next.
Do you want to grow AussieAngels?
Do you want to get more peopleon board, more diversity on
board?
If we met someone, who would bethe ideal person for us to
connect with you or connect withyour network?
SPEAKER_07 (32:50):
Yeah, so first I would say that if you are at all
angel curious, being at allinterested in angel investing.
Angel curious.
If you are angel curious, yeah.
Even if you don't have the fundsto actually start to invest yet,
but if you want to learn moreabout this space, it's
incredibly interesting.
So I would welcome you to go towww.venture.academy.
(33:11):
We run an online course.
It's self-paced, online, couplehours, but absolutely packed
full of really, really greatinsights from investors all over
the country.
So I would encourage you to dothat.
And special, you know what?
Because I like your listenersand we're here at West Tech
Fest, you can all have 20% offthe course.
So use the code WTF West TechFest, all capitals 20.
(33:35):
And then my ask would be that ifyou know of anybody out there
who is angel curious or who islooking to up their investment
game, please send them my way.
I love being known as the angelSherpa, the place to write your
first angel check, the place tostart to learn Learn about angel
investing and the place to getinto early stage ventures.
So if you know of anyone or ifyou hear in passing, someone's
(33:57):
like, oh, I've been thinkingabout getting into angel
investing.
Be like, hey, have you heard ofAussie Angels?
Go check out Aussie Angels.
I love that so much.
Thank you so much for being onthe show, Cheryl.
So there's actually two reasonsthat drew me to you, other than
that you're here in Perth, whichis a limited resource.
But you're LinkedIn, you'rewearing this ridiculously
adorable unicorn hat.
And I'm like, she's one of us.
A little bit of fun, a littlebit of sparkle.
(34:18):
And other reason is my mom'sname is also Cheryl.
And it's spelled the same way,which is not as common.
Yeah, it's a bit of an olderperson's name.
I was named after my dad'ssister who passed away very
young.
So I can imagine when that namemight have been popular was a
few years ago.
But I like my name.
Yeah, it's not common.
It's great.
Yeah.
When we were talking about youon the show, my phone kept
(34:41):
auto-correcting to Cheryl Cowan.
So shout out to my mom if she'slistening.
SPEAKER_06 (34:45):
Hello,
SPEAKER_07 (34:45):
Cheryl,
SPEAKER_06 (34:46):
on the show.
Excellent.
And Cheryl with a C.
Yes.
How can people connect with youif they want to reach out and
pick your brain about something?
SPEAKER_07 (34:54):
Yeah, for sure.
A number of ways.
You can jump on the AussieAngels website and just shoot a
message to our contact support,which is, I think, hello at
aussieangels.com.
You can also jump on LinkedInand find me.
I'm very easy to find.
I have a unicorn hat on.
So if you search Cheryl, youusually don't even have to put
my last name because the firstthing that comes up is me with a
unicorn hat.
I am not the best at LinkedInmessaging, but my email that is
(35:17):
on my LinkedIn is an email thatI use and you can reach out to
me there.
Amazing.
Thank you so much, Cheryl.
Unfortunately, once again, weare utterly out of time.
SPEAKER_06 (35:28):
That's right.
But if you have a fun storyabout either being a founder or
you're dabbling in angelinvestment we'd love to hear
from you and where can peoplereach us we are on instagram at
raft podcast or you can emailhello at raftpodcast.com and for
previous episodes or to find outmore don't forget to check out
(35:50):
our website raftpodcast.comthanks for listening rafters
catch you next time Yeah,exactly.
(36:15):
I think we should all feel verygood about our level of
professionalism because it'sobviously going to be great.
What do you think, Kate?
SPEAKER_03 (36:22):
I totally agree.
What could go wrong with thiswhole situation?
SPEAKER_06 (36:24):
We're so prepared.
I'm thinking nothing at all.
I'm thinking it's going to beperfect from start to finish.
SPEAKER_04 (36:31):
Flawless.
Flawless.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.
The Charlie Kirk Show
Charlie is America's hardest working grassroots activist who has your inside scoop on the biggest news of the day and what's really going on behind the headlines. The founder of Turning Point USA and one of social media's most engaged personalities, Charlie is on the front lines of America’s culture war, mobilizing hundreds of thousands of students on over 3,500 college and high school campuses across the country, bringing you your daily dose of clarity in a sea of chaos all from his signature no-holds-barred, unapologetically conservative, freedom-loving point of view. You can also watch Charlie Kirk on Salem News Channel