November 24, 2025 • 37 mins
DiRtY sExY FuNNy.
Lucy Lovegun is a multi-award-winning, internationally acclaimed force in the Australian burlesque scene. Known for her bold, comedic style, she’s performed around the world and competed twice at the prestigious Burlesque Hall of Fame in Las Vegas—taking home the title of Most Comedic. A passionate teacher, mentor, and community leader, Lucy is a titan of tease and headlining erotic clown.
In this episode, Lucy joins the raft to talk about the art of tease, beautiful journeys, finding a space where you belong, and dance trauma.
If you would like to support Lucy, you can follow her on Instagram @lucy_lovegun - or do yourself (and your local arts scene) a favour and go check out some of your own local burlesque performers. If you're based in Perth, Western Australia (like Lucy and the raft) you can check out Perth Burlesque Shows for what's on!
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_03 (00:22):
For centuries, we've been told that women are each
other's worst enemies.
But in reality, we're more likeotters than queen bees.
Female otters, bitches, if youwill, join hands with each other
to create rafts that stop themfrom drifting apart and losing
each other while they're asleep.
The thriving women have onething in common: they have a
tight-knit circle of other womenwho helped them get there by
providing information andsupport.
(00:44):
Join us each episode as we shinea light on an amazing woman and
give her a platform to sharewith us her story, her passion,
and the raft of bitchessupporting her.
Welcome back to the Raft ofBitches podcast, and I am joined
today by my co-host, Kate Cohen,or as she is sometimes known,
Scarlet Mist.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05):
Oh yeah.
Hi.
My recently announced uh Bellastage name, and that's Mist with
a Y.
A bit of mystery.
A bit of mystery, mysterious.
I'm joined by my co-host today,the fabulous Jo Minnie.
And a fun fact about Jo is thather stage name is Magenta
(01:26):
Mayhem.
And Jo, you're gonna have tospell it slash talk us through
it.
SPEAKER_03 (01:31):
Um, I mean it's it's not very clever, really, but I
was like, I like sewing.
I do a lot of sewing.
I'm a um very enthusiastic andmediocre seamstress.
Um so it's mayhem.
That's debatable.
It's spelled M-A-E space.
H-E-M-M.
That's like like a hem.
SPEAKER_01 (01:50):
Like yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (01:51):
I told you it wasn't that clever.
SPEAKER_01 (01:53):
I love it.
And why are we talking aboutbell as stage names?
Is because we have a fabulousguest for us today.
It is Lucy Lovegun, who's dirty,sexy, funny, a
multi-award-winning,internationally acclaimed force
in the Australian burlesquescene.
She's known for her bold comedicstyle and has performed all
(02:14):
around the world and competedtwice in the prestigious
Burlesque Hall of Fame in LasVegas, taking home the title of
most comedic.
She is a passionate teacher,mentor, and community leader.
She's a titan of tease and aheadlining erotic clown, the
glamour spud with a well-beatmug.
(02:35):
It's Lucy Lovegun.
Vomits profusely at listening tothe bio.
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
Welcome to the show.
Hi, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (02:44):
We're so excited to talk about all things burlesque
and the art scene today.
But to kick us off, we wouldlike to know your icebreaker.
So you have a favorite quote forus today.
SPEAKER_00 (02:55):
I do.
And watch me try a mental blankand remember it.
What is it?
Uh comparison is the thief ofall joy or thief of joy.
Oh, that's some banger.
Yeah, that's one that sticks inmy head a lot in like life and
in arts worlds.
I think it was Teddy Roosevelt.
I think.
I could be lying.
Don't fact check me.
(03:15):
We don't do that on this show.
How good?
SPEAKER_03 (03:18):
We're not here for facts.
We're here for pep talks.
SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
So pep talk.
SPEAKER_03 (03:22):
Yeah.
So for our listeners, a littlebit of background.
Uh, we came across Lucy because,as you might have guessed, Kate
and I have both done a littlebit of dabbling in burlesque
with some beginner classes.
And Lucy's kind of a big deal inthe burlesque scene.
I'm guessing that that wasn'twhere you started out though,
Lucy.
So I'm really curious to hearabout your story and kind of how
(03:44):
you started your burlesquejourney.
And was there sort of a naturalprogression there?
Or was it something that youwere just like, I've decided I'm
going to start burlesque, eventhough I've had no experience or
background in this?
SPEAKER_00 (03:56):
Yeah.
I don't have a big dancebackground.
There's two fields.
A lot of people come from dancetrauma and try and reclaim space
through burlesque.
Mine, yeah, everyone has it.
Um mine was as a millennial, Idefinitely was in love with the
movie Moulin Rouge when I was inhigh school and just really
fascinated with the outfits andlike the corsets, and that was
(04:20):
it.
Never thought about it again,and then sort of very shy, timid
human, especially in my teensand twenties.
And I just kept thinking aboutthese corsets and how cool it
was.
And then you start hearing theword burlesque, you're like,
maybe, maybe, maybe.
But no, definitely not.
I'm too shy for that sort ofthing.
And we did like a hens night orsomething once that was
(04:41):
burlesque themed.
I'm like, oh, do you know thatthat looks like fun?
Like, that looks like somethingthat I I could do.
It doesn't matter that I can'tdance.
It doesn't matter.
And it took freaking ages beforeI worked up the courage to do a
class.
And I actually got bullied intoit because someone got tired of
hearing me say, like, I think Iwant to try this.
I think I want to try, like,just just freaking do it.
(05:03):
And I'm like, all right.
And yeah, I just I signed up fora beginner's class and I was
definitely the quiet kid, thekid, adult, damn house adult.
I was in my mid-20s, like backof the room, even if I stood on
like a squeaky floorboard, I waslike, oh God, please don't
perceive me.
And I was just hookedimmediately.
It was really welcoming spaceand like, you know, it's good to
feel a bit sexy as very awkwardhumans.
(05:25):
So yeah, I just started a classfinally and kept going, and
there was no looking back, justkept going.
Every single time there was anew term.
Did a solo because why not?
And I'd done one solo and fastforward, I don't know, 11 years
here we are now.
I just kept going, neverstopped.
SPEAKER_01 (05:47):
Love that.
I really want to talk about thecommunity in Belesque.
When we were talking about whowe wanted in the show, I mean,
obviously we want you becauseyou're Lucy Lovegunner, but also
just the community in the Bellescene, Joe and I have
experienced how different it isto dance.
I'm not from a dance background,Joe is.
SPEAKER_03 (06:06):
Yeah, I felt really seen when you were like people
reclaiming their you know baddance trauma.
Yeah, that was me.
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
Yeah.
But there's so much, I mean,we've not been in it for a very
long time, but how genuinelyexcited everyone is to just like
pitch in and help and lendthings.
At our recent grad show, Joebroke a shoe in tech check,
which is maybe an hour beforewe're supposed to be on stage.
And she came off and she's like,I don't know what to do.
(06:34):
And we're calling people, andlike, does anyone have a size
eight shoe?
And I'm like, let's just askpeople, let's just wander around
and talk to people.
Maybe someone has a spare shoe.
And one of the uh Eva Cynciawent home to give us two, three
pairs of shoes.
SPEAKER_03 (06:50):
Yeah, she went home, she just got like every black
pair of boots that she had in awardrobe and some like knee-high
sparkly socks as well, so that Ihad fullbacks.
And then she was like, What doyou want?
And I was like, You're my actualhero, and I want to marry you
right now.
SPEAKER_00 (07:03):
Um is one of the nicest humans and just great
human, great burlesque andteacher and stage manager.
She's just like one of thenicest people known to mankind.
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
It was amazing.
But we hadn't met her before,and it's just the I don't think
that would happen in dance,right?
SPEAKER_03 (07:20):
That people would people would out of their while
you're on your own.
But I I think it's for me, it'salso that that's not an unusual
experience that I've had.
Like I had my very, very firstperformance that I ever did.
I managed to, I'm really a hotmess.
Like putting the mayhem andmagenta mayhem.
Um, I managed to forget the corepiece of my costume, which was
(07:41):
like black bathers.
So, like the bathing costumepart of the bathing costume.
And the girls in the class, andthere was it was a big class, it
was a go-go class, and they allkind of chipped in together and
fished out all of their extrabits of costume that they had
from their other performancesand stuff, and managed to put me
together a costume out of likethe spare bits and pieces, and I
(08:02):
was like ready to have acomplete meltdown, and everyone
just kind of chipped in, andthat's that's the community that
I think I wanted from dance andnever found before I discovered
Boesque.
So is is it just our littlecommunity, or is that sort of a
global thing that you'veexperienced?
SPEAKER_00 (08:24):
I think generally speaking, it's uh it's pretty
pretty similar.
I mean, like anything in theworld, there are clicks that
form, but that's sometimes justpeople who are friends with
different friends and thingslike that.
It's not a push people awaything, but I've really found
that there's something aboutburlesque that maybe it is that
because it's it's strip tease,like it's something that people
(08:45):
come to as an adult.
You're coming in with adifferent mentality and you're
coming in with different reasonsfor wanting to do something, and
it's usually coming from a placeof kindness or compassion.
So whether it's for yourself orwhether it's for like healing
things or whether it's to findyour people as an adult, the way
you're coming into burlesque isit's from that place of
(09:05):
kindness.
So it's like, I think it justmakes people just a bit more
genuine.
And you know, you're all in thistogether, you're all getting
vulnerable together.
You're going into doing maybeyou've never done any kind of
dance or performance art before.
Maybe it's your first timegetting your kid off, but it's
like everyone's doing somethingfresh on you or something that
they love.
So it's just building such aspace of just goodness around
(09:28):
each other.
And it just seems that everyonewants everyone to succeed,
especially with classes.
You're you're a group, you're ateam.
You've gone through six to eightweeks of doing a class together
and learning something together.
You all want to succeed and youall want to do well.
And I just think it's it's nice.
I remember doing a festival andsomeone who I just met was
missing part of their costume.
And I literally took theG-string off my body and they're
(09:50):
like, Thank you so much.
And I've exchanged underwearwith someone to help them out
with their act because likethere's a broken.
It's just you want everyone todo well.
It's not about doing better thansomebody, like it's about
everyone putting on a great showor like you want someone to do
their best.
And it comes back to like theicebreaker at the beginning.
It's not about comparison, it'sabout lifting everybody up,
(10:11):
generally speaking.
SPEAKER_01 (10:13):
Do you think part of that is because burlesque isn't
for the most part competitive?
Like I know that there'sobviously competitions and
you've won so many awards, butin a normal show, you're not
really competing with the otheracts.
And if the other acts do well,the crowd's probably in a better
mood, right?
Yeah, I think that's some of it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:32):
I mean, potentially there is a metric shit ton of
competition within burlesque,especially in like the wider
world.
Perth doesn't really have thisscene, but it's a small business
with a lot of people who want todo it and be president,
especially when you're lookingat the professional side of it.
There's competition in that, youknow, people are vying for
(10:54):
different jobs, but it's notever I've particularly found
myself.
I can't speak for other places,but it's never been like I'm
gonna elbow down that person orun deliberately undercut that
person so that I can get the jobbecause I want the work or that
sort of thing.
I think because the neoburlesque scene has uh come out
of people reclaiming space andcreating a space specifically to
(11:17):
begin with for women, and thenit's obviously broadened from
there, which is beautiful.
But you know, I think it is itcould come about from people
wanting to do their own thingand be a community-based thing.
SPEAKER_03 (11:29):
Who is in your raft?
Who are the people that supportyou in your journey as Lisi
Lovegan?
SPEAKER_00 (11:35):
I'm pretty lucky.
I have uh built a it's it's nota huge raft, but it's a pretty
solid raft.
And like a lot of my my closewell maybe my just my friends
now, but we'll call them myburles friends, so the people I
go to with that realm.
Yeah, a lot of them have been mystudents who are now good
friends, and then there's mypeers who started with me.
(11:56):
I've got people who have similarhealth conditions to me and are
trying to live through a worldof life and also performing, and
then my partners are great.
Like even my work's pretty okay.
I have a full-time day joboutside of this, which is a pain
in the ass.
My work's pretty decent aboutit.
Yeah, my rafters definitely thepeople I perform with and some
(12:21):
other people in the community.
SPEAKER_01 (12:23):
I'm curious to know what the double life of Lucy
looks like.
So you have a full-time job inthe real world, and then you
have a a stage world with all ofyour bellesque friends.
What's kind of that balance likefor you?
SPEAKER_00 (12:36):
Oh, it's pretty tricky sometimes.
Like I get a lot of people willsay to me, I don't know how you
do it.
And like sometimes I don't knowhow I do it.
I'm tired a lot and I don'tsleep very well.
But you know, when you love whatyou're doing, my day job is it's
a full ass day job and it's anoffice job.
It's I'm in management kind ofthing, and I'm looking after
(12:57):
like the CEOs, and that I'msaying, I wish you could look
after yourself sometimes.
Trying to be organized and plan,and sometimes I honestly really
don't get the balance veryright.
Sometimes I feel like trying toearn a living and paying my
bills means that I don't havetime to be nourishing Lucy and
creating space and time to growthat identity and do what I want
(13:21):
with that, and then other timesit's my personal life trying to
find time to have a sit down andnot feel like that I should be
keep moving.
But yeah, it's a balance.
It's it's hard work.
I'm very blessed that I havesome loving, caring, kind people
around me, and I definitelymisappropriate some of my uh
(13:43):
office time with my other lifeadmin.
Never, never.
We would never be rhinestoningin the office.
Oh gosh, the amount of times andmy work is used to it.
I'll work through my lunchbreak, then start doing my
makeup at my desk at fouro'clock in the afternoon to try
and make something later on.
Definitely some probably lessthan healthy crossovers there.
(14:04):
But I I work really hard and Ilove what I do, so it's just
just trying to push through tomake time.
But I would like more balance inthe you know, the creativity
side of what I like to do.
So Lucy's time, I wish I hadmore time to dedicate to that,
to like actively pursue and growthat more.
But you know, I gotta pay thebills and but let's don't pay my
(14:26):
bills.
unknown (14:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:28):
And so when you do that and you put your Lucy face
on and the costumes and allthat, do you feel like you're
stepping into a separate personaor is it more of an extension of
kind of you who you are outsideof being on stage?
SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
I think it's an extension, it's not a separate
human.
It is me.
I like to think of my personalself is quite shy and like an
introverted extrovert, but andlike a goofy human.
I've got funny bones.
Everything about Lucy is just medialed up to 11.
(15:04):
It's everything that's inside ofme, it's not a completely
different person.
I think for me that works.
I'm not sure how it works foreveryone else, but it'd be kind
of exhausting if it wascompletely acting to be
something that you're not everytime.
So I think for especially withwhat we're doing, like I feel
really connected with Lucy, andthat's why my acts, what I'm
like focusing on, or like mybrain is like tending towards
(15:26):
creatively wise, is usuallydictated from what's going on in
my my life.
So if I'm just feeling like Iwant to be super goofy all the
time, maybe I'm having a greatfun time, maybe I just want to
do some more serious, likemoody, sexy things.
I'm like, maybe something reallygood's going on in my life, you
know?
Like it just depends what likeis is vibing in my life that
tends to come out in Lucy a lotof the time.
SPEAKER_01 (15:49):
So on stage, you literally have to bear your
whole self.
What's that like?
Is it exhilarating?
Is it terrifying?
Does it change sometimes?
Is it amazing one time and thenext time you're like, oh, I
feel really vulnerable.
What's that process like?
SPEAKER_00 (16:03):
Yeah, like I definitely remember the very
first time I got my bobs out andI was like, oh my god, this is
the best thing ever.
And I just wanted to do it againand again and again, hence why I
never stopped.
But I definitely am actually areasonably insecure human and I
have good days and I have lessgood days with how I'm
(16:23):
perceiving myself.
I think it's really, it's kindof like a therapy because I
don't have such great brainconnectivity with what my body
looks like sometimes.
That when I get all dressed up,I'm like, oh, you know, I'm
really fucking feeling my notesright now.
Like, this looks all right.
This that's not as bad as youwere telling yourself yesterday
about how this looked in themirror.
Shut up, internal monologue.
That was stupid.
(16:43):
This looks great.
People are clapping.
That can't be bad.
People paid to come see this.
That's all right, isn't it?
No, I love it.
I'm not gonna lie.
And do you have to be reallyconfident to do that?
Confident is a learned skill.
If you are waiting to beconfident to do the thing,
you'll never do it because it'sthe fear of that that stops you
(17:06):
from doing it.
Confidence is a thing you it's atool, it's a thing you learn and
grow with.
Yeah, I think I think it's ait's a thing a lot of people
when they start but less getdown on is that confidence
factor.
I would never have theconfidence to do that, you've
got the confidence to do that.
So I didn't start like this,like it took me a year of
thinking about it to do a class.
Yeah.
But by the time you sort of likebeen nourishing yourself and
(17:28):
nourishing your confidence, thenit's like it's just there.
But I think it's the joy ofperforming that is the
confidence part of it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (17:39):
And I think there's also this aspect of when you
first start, you look at otherpeople and you compare yourself
to them in comparison as theenemy.
It is.
It's a thief of joy.
Yeah, and it's and like I know Icompare myself to other people
in the class, or I try not to,but it's really hard when you
you I'm quite a chunky girl andI look at the other people and
I'm like, oh, they look so muchbetter in lingerie than I do.
(18:02):
But then they're looking at meand going, oh, she picks up the
steps so much easier.
Like everyone's at a differentplace and has different things
they're self-conscious about.
It's just kind of learning tolike, what are your gremlins and
how do you deal with them?
And I think like for me, one ofthe best things about the Beless
community is just that constantreinforcement of those positive
(18:22):
messages.
Absolutely.
Um, whatever they are, whetherit's your steps are getting so
much better, you've come so farin the last six weeks, or you
look amazing and your rack looksreally good in that bra.
Absolutely.
Like it doesn't really matterwhat it is.
Like there's just that constantpositivity that is catching.
SPEAKER_00 (18:40):
Yeah.
And you know, it's not toxicpositivity where people are just
blowing smoke up your ass justto make you feel good.
It's like, okay, well, like,like you said, everybody's
journey is different.
And that's what's beautifulabout it.
And I think it's reallyimportant not to focus in on
someone else's journey becauseeverybody has a different goal
for what burlesque is to them orwhat it means for them or it is
(19:01):
for them.
Because you know, some peoplemight want to do it just for
themselves.
Some people come in and I'veseen it.
They're like, this is what'sgoing to make me famous, this is
it.
And then that's very quicklylike, good luck.
Um, but it's everyone has adifferent path, a different
intention for their path, like adifferent requirement for what
they want to get out of it.
So everything, there are so manydifferent factors in there.
(19:24):
So the idea of comparingyourself is just so silly
because what are your goals?
What do you want to get out ofit?
You don't know what someoneelse's goals are and you don't
know how long they've been doingit, what their background is,
any of that.
So if you want to have fun,what's the point in comparing
yourself?
Why not just be happy with whatyou've got?
Because if you're comparingyourself, you sometimes don't
(19:45):
see what you've got going on.
Like if you're living in theshadows of worrying about what
someone else is doing, you can'tshed light on the the good that
you're doing and the amazingachievement and progress that
you're making.
So yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:58):
100%.
One of the interesting thingsI've noticed from doing classes
is a lot of the women,particular and if you are
listening to this and you'rethinking, Oh, I wish I could do
burlesque, but I'm too old, likeI'm 40 next year and I reckon
more than half of our class isolder than me.
SPEAKER_00 (20:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:16):
And there definitely does seem to be at the grad
shows a a high proportion ofpeople who are maybe their kids
have left home now and they'retrying to rediscover themselves
and reinvent themselves as like,what do I look like when I'm not
a mum anymore?
SPEAKER_00 (20:30):
Yeah.
And everyone deserves that.
I think that's the thing is likeeverybody deserves to have their
own, you know, their own loveand acceptance for their body
just as it is.
And burlesque is great for thatbecause it's it's not a dance.
There is dancing involved in it,and it takes things from dance,
but it's remembering that it'sperformance art and the great
things in the classes,especially like our like I can
(20:51):
only speak from my experiencewith sugar blues.
Like we will tailor things toability.
We're constantly asking, like,if this isn't good, let me know,
and we can give you anadaptation because it's you
know, you want it to beaccessible and you want it to be
accessible for everybody,everybody, everyone and
everybody type.
Like it's just I want you, Iwant you to feel you're sexy and
find your comfort and like getwhat you wanted out of it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
I'm interested in hearing a little bit about the
background of burlesque andKevin, how it's got to here.
So we've heard a little bit ofyour story of burlesque, but
burlesque has a long andcomplicated past.
SPEAKER_00 (21:28):
Yeah.
Look, I can talk for a very longtime about the history of
burlesque, and it would beabsolutely flawed.
There are some amazing humansout there who have excellent
history in that, but in anutshell, um it started in the
1800s in that um the theatre,and it's from the Italian word
burla, which means to parody.
(21:50):
So it's actually to make fun ofstuff, and it was all about you
know, political satire andmaking fun of things that wasn't
yet about, you know, stripteaseas we know it now.
Through a whole series of eventsfrom Europe, and then they came
over to the States, and longstory short, it caught on, and
it got really, really popular inthe vaudeville sort of era and
(22:12):
the follies, and all came up,and there was a lot of political
things going on with thegovernment being like, you can't
do that, and the women beinglike, Yes, I can, and doing it
in really interesting ways.
And it ended up, you know, itwas it's titillating, it's what
people were coming to see.
It was a bit naughty, and thenit eventually, this is such
paraphrasing, it died outbecause of free spirit and the
(22:34):
porn industry.
And then we had a revitalizationin the 90s with Dita Fonties and
that massive condensing of that,but essentially everything from
the golden age of burlesque inthe 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s to
the nowadays of it is it becamesort of like a feminine power
reclamation.
SPEAKER_03 (22:52):
Do you think that there are feminist roots
throughout the history ofburlesque, or is it mostly just
in the neo-burlesque?
SPEAKER_00 (22:58):
Well, I think my limited understanding of
everything, it sounds like evenfrom the beginning to me, it's
feminism because it was womengetting on stage and finding a
way to get around what wasaccepted to do what they wanted
to do.
So if it was dressing up like aman so that they could play a
part, or it was these were therules and regulations of what
(23:20):
you are and aren't allowed todo, but then finding costuming
or finding creative ways to getaround what they were and
weren't allowed to do.
Obviously, it is for theentertainment of the public and
male, male gays and things likethat as well.
But I it's always been politicalactivism, it's always been
feminism because it's it's goingagainst the norm.
(23:41):
It's going against what is theexpectations, it's it's fighting
social taboos, it's it's alwaysbeen that in one way or another.
But definitely sort of theresurgence has uh opened up from
there.
So it's become an art form and aplatform to extend to different
communities and different peopleand different like a diverse
(24:02):
background to open up for a safespace for that expression.
So yeah, that's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_01 (24:10):
Are there any performers that inspire your
style of burlesque?
SPEAKER_00 (24:16):
Absolutely.
I think because for me, I when Ifirst started burlesque,
especially in Perth, it was verya lot of classic golden age, but
more dancer-based things.
And it was about beautiful linesand um being sensual and things
like that.
And I just never thought ofmyself that way.
(24:37):
I'm like, I can't be sexy.
I'm not a sexy person.
I'm told now I do it okay.
Can confirm.
Can be sexy.
It's in it's in the tagline now.
But what I was seeing was a lotof what wasn't me.
Like it was beautiful and I loveit.
And I always aspired to it, butI was like, oh, I don't really,
why do I fit in here?
(24:57):
Because I just want to be adickhead.
I'm not a dickhead.
I'm funny.
I'm a bit of a funny sausagewith a dirty sense of humor.
So I've taken a lot ofinspiration from performers like
my dance mum, Agatha Frisky, andthen like even people like Kitty
Lachure was one of the firstburlesque performers I saw that
was doing the alternative stylesof burlesque, who was doing
(25:19):
comedic burlesque, so it's likeroots in the vaudeville style
and creativity in that way.
I think the more I started to goto festivals away from Perth and
started to say, oh wow, no,there are other performers out
there, fringe starting to seelike the atomic bombshells come
through, Kitten and Lou, and allthese different artists starting
(25:40):
to say, oh wow, no, burlesqueisn't just this beautiful
corsets and gowns and prettythings.
It was like, okay, things can bedifferent.
But I think one of the big onesfor me was Juliet Les Meuse and
her husband, who I can'tremember his name, they came to
Perth Fringe many moons ago anddid a show called The Freak and
(26:01):
the Showgirl.
And it was just likerevolutionary for me because I
could see this thing was like,okay, burlesque isn't like
burlesque is a spectrum, it'shuge spectrum, it encompasses so
much, but like I only really hadperception of what a small
portion of that was.
And to see literally, they cameout to as a cop to break in the
(26:22):
law by Judas Priest.
And I'm a big metal rock androll fan.
I'm like, oh shit.
And then they were eatingdonuts, and obviously it was a
commentary on the police, andthen it was just it got chaotic
from there, and it ended up itwas full nude, and she was doing
a handstand to like long,beautiful hair.
So you can put your your mindtogether to what was happening
(26:43):
there, and I was just like, Wow.
Um I study a lot of my historyso I can see like where the
roots of classic moves come in,and then also seeing like what
do I love doing?
So I think a lot of it just camefrom me being like, wouldn't it
be funny if or like that'sgreat, but that's funny.
(27:04):
So it's like I would have anidea that was like straight,
we'll call it, and then be like,oh no, intrusive thoughts, what
if it was funny in this way?
SPEAKER_01 (27:14):
It almost sounds like improv in a way, like
improv in the creation, and thenobviously highly practiced and
refined down towards some stage.
SPEAKER_00 (27:25):
Yeah, it's kind of I I guess I didn't fit in, and
instead of trying to fit in, Iwas just like, I'm just gonna do
my thing, and if it works, itworks.
If it doesn't, it doesn't,because like I'm doing this as
an adult for for fun.
I say to a lot of my studentsall the time, and everyone I
meet, like, if you're not havingfun, why are you doing it?
SPEAKER_01 (27:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
Like if you're not having a good time, why?
You're getting really stressedout.
And I hand up, I've definitelyhad a good period of my life
where I was getting reallystressed out, but I did too much
comparison, I get too much worryabout expectations and things
like that, and it really got medown.
And not always the nicest personto be around when that happens.
But I think, yeah, I just reallysort of found my groove and I'm
(28:03):
like, I just want to do whatmakes me happy, or like when
you're in a happy creativespace, you just think outside of
a narrow box.
And the more you expose yourselfto the different types of the
art form that exist, you're likeyour eyes are opened again and
again and again as to what itcan be.
There is nothing that can stopyou.
There is a space for any genreof burlesque, uh from like super
(28:28):
gory things to really comedicvaudeville things, the super
sexy.
Like there's just so much spacethere to just flex what you feel
like the burlesque is the art oftease.
It is not the art of seduction,it's the art of tease.
So like you don't have to besexy about it.
Like the idea is to tease peoplealong with like the the
(28:50):
storyline with what you'redoing.
So you can literally doanything, and it's marvelous to
not feel like you have to do onething.
SPEAKER_03 (28:59):
I think that there's definitely a subset of people,
uh particularly I think maybethe older generation who perhaps
haven't had the same exposure toburlesque because it is becoming
a bit more mainstream now, wherethey still think of burlesque as
essentially stripping and itjust being someone getting on
stage taking their clothes off.
And I think back to theperformances I've watched that
(29:21):
have really stuck with me.
And honestly, the stripping partof it has nothing to do with it.
I'm like, but they were dressedas a character from Despicable
Me.
That's the thing that stuck inmy head, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
Yeah.
So we're stripping.
We are stripping, and there'sone of my biggest bugbears is
saying that Burlesque is classystripping or anything like that.
It's it's a very negative viewthat unfortunately some of like
the wider public will have.
Like sex work industry and ourbeautiful sisters in the clubs,
(29:54):
like they're the ones doing thehard work.
And I like to think of thedifference between our club
stripping and burlesque stuff islike it's the intention behind
it and it's the audience.
So, like, if you go into a club,what you want is the end result,
and that's that's great.
And they're doing amazing workup there to entertain their
audiences in the way theaudience expects and needs.
(30:16):
When you come to a burlesqueshow, you you're there for the
journey.
So you're there for thestoryline, and everything else
is a bonus, essentially.
And it is that kind ofunfortunate social taboos and
stigmas that you have to workthrough for some of the older
generation, is like they justhave one ideology of what a
human form, like a body, can be,or the intention behind it,
(30:38):
rather than seeing everythingelse that it can be, which is
sad in itself because our bodiesare beautiful and why shouldn't
we celebrate them?
I want to see it.
That's a beautiful free gift forme.
Um, but yeah, it's it's it isunfortunate, but it's just, you
know, it's something that we cankeep working on the more we have
shows that are different themes.
And Perth, it's hard.
(30:59):
Like we're very insular with ourshows.
I think it's only people who arein burlesque or have an
affiliation with burlesque thatcome to burlesque shows.
It's really hard to get it outto the wider public to then to
knock down some of thesebarricades and to encourage them
to come and say, no, it isfunny, it is like circus, it is
like drag, it is, it is so manythings that are wonderful that
(31:19):
isn't just nudity.
SPEAKER_03 (31:22):
Yeah, just do you think fringe helps with that?
SPEAKER_00 (31:24):
Yes and no.
So, like fringe is a greatopportunity for us to have shows
out there, and oftentimes theyare the one time a year where we
get to work for a longer periodof time on a show so we can have
a solid thematic or somethingthat's a bit different, a
storyline-based show or thatsort of thing, and you're
working on it for a longerperiod of time.
(31:45):
So these are like gonna be themost ideally well put together
shows, and they're gonna be likereally schmick and like
good-looking ones.
So they're a great thing for thepublic to see, but then the
public still don't come to ourfringe shows because you've got
all these big names.
They go they go see the big onesthat have giant marketing
budgets that have been boughtin, they've been flown in, they
(32:08):
are the money makers of fringe.
And unfortunately, the Perthscene doesn't want to go see a
local show.
And you know, the economy at themoment, maybe they can only
afford to go see one or twoshows, and then they'll go to
the show that has an$80 ticketprice instead of going to three
shows that they can get for thesame value because they just
(32:29):
assume it's the bigger one.
It's oh, I've heard this fromso-and-so said it was good.
They are great shows, but thelocal shows just aren't getting
the walkthrough.
It's a double-edged sword, yes,it's a great opportunity, but it
doesn't always come out thatway, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_01 (32:45):
How can people support the arts more?
SPEAKER_00 (32:50):
I think just go tell someone, like, you know, this is
great.
It's because people don'tnecessarily come to burlesque
just on a whim.
They've heard it from someone orthey've experienced from
someone.
So please go see a show.
Just go do a class and have anice time and talking to people
(33:14):
about it, saying how fun it is,especially like with our raft,
you know, because like we're allhere to support each other and
like for burlesque classes,especially, like it's a thing,
and it's not for everybody, itdoesn't have to be, but it is
such a beautiful community and aliberating space.
SPEAKER_01 (33:34):
So you recently were at the burlesque Hall of Fame
for the second time in Vegas.
What's the next challenge foryou?
SPEAKER_00 (33:42):
Very lucky.
Well, you know, I worked hardto, but very lucky to have
competed at the burlesqueOlympics two years in a row.
I had a wild set of burlesquebingo that I wanted to achieve
with my my my career, and Irealized I achieved that this
year.
I was like, oh no.
I was like, I got in the um newbingo card.
Yeah, and I was absolutely I'mlike, okay, well, what's next
(34:04):
from here?
What things can I do?
And like I'm not moving out ofPerth anytime soon, so I really
want to start producing.
So I'm gonna try and activelymake some more space to try and
do the things that I want to seeand help grow in Perth.
So I want to start producingmore, I want to start creating
spaces for regular shows andhopefully try and create this
(34:25):
awareness of burlesque by thegeneral public by putting it in
their face a bit more in methodsthat aren't just shows.
So welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_03 (34:36):
Speaking of, uh, how can our raft help you uh help
with your next step and justhelp the burlesque scene in
Perth in general?
SPEAKER_00 (34:46):
Ask friends, talk about it, but definitely follow
any performers and go down somerabbit holes and like give their
Instagrams a like.
There is a few places that oftenpost a lot of workshops and
classes and shows and stuff thatare coming up.
There is an Instagram that is, Ibelieve, run by Evanson C who we
mentioned at the top, um, andit's Perth.burlesque.shows on
(35:07):
Instagram and is kept up to datewith like all the shows are
coming up on Facebook.
There is the Perth Burlesquecalendar, which is where a lot
of events are advertised inthere.
But the best thing you can do isgive us all a follow and a like
and like check out all thedifferent schools.
There are so many schools inPerth that have their own shows,
(35:27):
and you know, it's that wholelike and subscribe thing that we
live in now.
Unfortunately, it's the waywe're connected.
SPEAKER_02 (35:33):
But if you can please do that, find out your
Instagram profiles.
It makes it much more fun to goand look at Instagram.
SPEAKER_00 (35:43):
Yeah, and then you find their naughty profiles and
have an extra good time.
Oh yeah, there's that's the waya lot of burlesque performers
make their real coin is um byhaving their spicy content as
well.
SPEAKER_01 (35:52):
So there you go.
SPEAKER_00 (35:53):
You're welcome.
SPEAKER_01 (35:54):
Well, I was gonna ask what's yours, but I'm gonna
clarify what's your normalInstagram handle of the five.
SPEAKER_00 (36:03):
I've got no time for a spicy.
I thought about selling feetpics, but it's fine.
Mine is uh Lucy underscorelovegun because my
neurospiciness needed a spacebetween my name.
Um yeah, you find me on theInstagrams at Lucy underscore
lovegun and all those things.
I'm gonna make a new website andall that.
I'll teach sugar blue sometimes.
SPEAKER_03 (36:26):
Excellent.
And is there anyone from ourraft that you would like to be
connected with?
Is there anyone that you'relooking to build out your raft
with?
SPEAKER_00 (36:35):
Oh, I don't know.
I'm so keen.
I am always happy to make newnew connections with any button.
So yes, just a general yes.
SPEAKER_01 (36:45):
Unfortunately, once again, we are utterly out of
time.
SPEAKER_03 (36:50):
That's right.
But if you have a story aboutburlesque or you just want to,
you know, give Lucy a shout out,we would love to hear from you.
And where can people find us?
We are also on Instagram atraftpodcast, or you can email
hello at raftpodcast.com.
SPEAKER_01 (37:06):
And for previous episodes or to find out more,
don't forget to check out ourwebsite, raftpodcast.com.
Thanks for listening, Rafters.
Catch you next time.
SPEAKER_00 (37:38):
Like, what is this tangent that I was going down?
Oh, that's not relatable to usat all.
We went and shiny.
For centuries, we've been told that women are each
other's worst enemies.
But in reality, we're more likeotters than queen bees.
Female otters, bitches, if youwill, join hands with each other
to create rafts that stop themfrom drifting apart and losing
each other while they're asleep.
The thriving women have onething in common: they have a
tight-knit circle of other womenwho helped them get there by
providing information andsupport.
(00:44):
Join us each episode as we shinea light on an amazing woman and
give her a platform to sharewith us her story, her passion,
and the raft of bitchessupporting her.
Welcome back to the Raft ofBitches podcast, and I am joined
today by my co-host, Kate Cohen,or as she is sometimes known,
Scarlet Mist.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05):
Oh yeah.
Hi.
My recently announced uh Bellastage name, and that's Mist with
a Y.
A bit of mystery.
A bit of mystery, mysterious.
I'm joined by my co-host today,the fabulous Jo Minnie.
And a fun fact about Jo is thather stage name is Magenta
(01:26):
Mayhem.
And Jo, you're gonna have tospell it slash talk us through
it.
SPEAKER_03 (01:31):
Um, I mean it's it's not very clever, really, but I
was like, I like sewing.
I do a lot of sewing.
I'm a um very enthusiastic andmediocre seamstress.
Um so it's mayhem.
That's debatable.
It's spelled M-A-E space.
H-E-M-M.
That's like like a hem.
SPEAKER_01 (01:50):
Like yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (01:51):
I told you it wasn't that clever.
SPEAKER_01 (01:53):
I love it.
And why are we talking aboutbell as stage names?
Is because we have a fabulousguest for us today.
It is Lucy Lovegun, who's dirty,sexy, funny, a
multi-award-winning,internationally acclaimed force
in the Australian burlesquescene.
She's known for her bold comedicstyle and has performed all
(02:14):
around the world and competedtwice in the prestigious
Burlesque Hall of Fame in LasVegas, taking home the title of
most comedic.
She is a passionate teacher,mentor, and community leader.
She's a titan of tease and aheadlining erotic clown, the
glamour spud with a well-beatmug.
(02:35):
It's Lucy Lovegun.
Vomits profusely at listening tothe bio.
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
Welcome to the show.
Hi, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (02:44):
We're so excited to talk about all things burlesque
and the art scene today.
But to kick us off, we wouldlike to know your icebreaker.
So you have a favorite quote forus today.
SPEAKER_00 (02:55):
I do.
And watch me try a mental blankand remember it.
What is it?
Uh comparison is the thief ofall joy or thief of joy.
Oh, that's some banger.
Yeah, that's one that sticks inmy head a lot in like life and
in arts worlds.
I think it was Teddy Roosevelt.
I think.
I could be lying.
Don't fact check me.
(03:15):
We don't do that on this show.
How good?
SPEAKER_03 (03:18):
We're not here for facts.
We're here for pep talks.
SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
So pep talk.
SPEAKER_03 (03:22):
Yeah.
So for our listeners, a littlebit of background.
Uh, we came across Lucy because,as you might have guessed, Kate
and I have both done a littlebit of dabbling in burlesque
with some beginner classes.
And Lucy's kind of a big deal inthe burlesque scene.
I'm guessing that that wasn'twhere you started out though,
Lucy.
So I'm really curious to hearabout your story and kind of how
(03:44):
you started your burlesquejourney.
And was there sort of a naturalprogression there?
Or was it something that youwere just like, I've decided I'm
going to start burlesque, eventhough I've had no experience or
background in this?
SPEAKER_00 (03:56):
Yeah.
I don't have a big dancebackground.
There's two fields.
A lot of people come from dancetrauma and try and reclaim space
through burlesque.
Mine, yeah, everyone has it.
Um mine was as a millennial, Idefinitely was in love with the
movie Moulin Rouge when I was inhigh school and just really
fascinated with the outfits andlike the corsets, and that was
(04:20):
it.
Never thought about it again,and then sort of very shy, timid
human, especially in my teensand twenties.
And I just kept thinking aboutthese corsets and how cool it
was.
And then you start hearing theword burlesque, you're like,
maybe, maybe, maybe.
But no, definitely not.
I'm too shy for that sort ofthing.
And we did like a hens night orsomething once that was
(04:41):
burlesque themed.
I'm like, oh, do you know thatthat looks like fun?
Like, that looks like somethingthat I I could do.
It doesn't matter that I can'tdance.
It doesn't matter.
And it took freaking ages beforeI worked up the courage to do a
class.
And I actually got bullied intoit because someone got tired of
hearing me say, like, I think Iwant to try this.
I think I want to try, like,just just freaking do it.
(05:03):
And I'm like, all right.
And yeah, I just I signed up fora beginner's class and I was
definitely the quiet kid, thekid, adult, damn house adult.
I was in my mid-20s, like backof the room, even if I stood on
like a squeaky floorboard, I waslike, oh God, please don't
perceive me.
And I was just hookedimmediately.
It was really welcoming spaceand like, you know, it's good to
feel a bit sexy as very awkwardhumans.
(05:25):
So yeah, I just started a classfinally and kept going, and
there was no looking back, justkept going.
Every single time there was anew term.
Did a solo because why not?
And I'd done one solo and fastforward, I don't know, 11 years
here we are now.
I just kept going, neverstopped.
SPEAKER_01 (05:47):
Love that.
I really want to talk about thecommunity in Belesque.
When we were talking about whowe wanted in the show, I mean,
obviously we want you becauseyou're Lucy Lovegunner, but also
just the community in the Bellescene, Joe and I have
experienced how different it isto dance.
I'm not from a dance background,Joe is.
SPEAKER_03 (06:06):
Yeah, I felt really seen when you were like people
reclaiming their you know baddance trauma.
Yeah, that was me.
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
Yeah.
But there's so much, I mean,we've not been in it for a very
long time, but how genuinelyexcited everyone is to just like
pitch in and help and lendthings.
At our recent grad show, Joebroke a shoe in tech check,
which is maybe an hour beforewe're supposed to be on stage.
And she came off and she's like,I don't know what to do.
(06:34):
And we're calling people, andlike, does anyone have a size
eight shoe?
And I'm like, let's just askpeople, let's just wander around
and talk to people.
Maybe someone has a spare shoe.
And one of the uh Eva Cynciawent home to give us two, three
pairs of shoes.
SPEAKER_03 (06:50):
Yeah, she went home, she just got like every black
pair of boots that she had in awardrobe and some like knee-high
sparkly socks as well, so that Ihad fullbacks.
And then she was like, What doyou want?
And I was like, You're my actualhero, and I want to marry you
right now.
SPEAKER_00 (07:03):
Um is one of the nicest humans and just great
human, great burlesque andteacher and stage manager.
She's just like one of thenicest people known to mankind.
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
It was amazing.
But we hadn't met her before,and it's just the I don't think
that would happen in dance,right?
SPEAKER_03 (07:20):
That people would people would out of their while
you're on your own.
But I I think it's for me, it'salso that that's not an unusual
experience that I've had.
Like I had my very, very firstperformance that I ever did.
I managed to, I'm really a hotmess.
Like putting the mayhem andmagenta mayhem.
Um, I managed to forget the corepiece of my costume, which was
(07:41):
like black bathers.
So, like the bathing costumepart of the bathing costume.
And the girls in the class, andthere was it was a big class, it
was a go-go class, and they allkind of chipped in together and
fished out all of their extrabits of costume that they had
from their other performancesand stuff, and managed to put me
together a costume out of likethe spare bits and pieces, and I
(08:02):
was like ready to have acomplete meltdown, and everyone
just kind of chipped in, andthat's that's the community that
I think I wanted from dance andnever found before I discovered
Boesque.
So is is it just our littlecommunity, or is that sort of a
global thing that you'veexperienced?
SPEAKER_00 (08:24):
I think generally speaking, it's uh it's pretty
pretty similar.
I mean, like anything in theworld, there are clicks that
form, but that's sometimes justpeople who are friends with
different friends and thingslike that.
It's not a push people awaything, but I've really found
that there's something aboutburlesque that maybe it is that
because it's it's strip tease,like it's something that people
(08:45):
come to as an adult.
You're coming in with adifferent mentality and you're
coming in with different reasonsfor wanting to do something, and
it's usually coming from a placeof kindness or compassion.
So whether it's for yourself orwhether it's for like healing
things or whether it's to findyour people as an adult, the way
you're coming into burlesque isit's from that place of
(09:05):
kindness.
So it's like, I think it justmakes people just a bit more
genuine.
And you know, you're all in thistogether, you're all getting
vulnerable together.
You're going into doing maybeyou've never done any kind of
dance or performance art before.
Maybe it's your first timegetting your kid off, but it's
like everyone's doing somethingfresh on you or something that
they love.
So it's just building such aspace of just goodness around
(09:28):
each other.
And it just seems that everyonewants everyone to succeed,
especially with classes.
You're you're a group, you're ateam.
You've gone through six to eightweeks of doing a class together
and learning something together.
You all want to succeed and youall want to do well.
And I just think it's it's nice.
I remember doing a festival andsomeone who I just met was
missing part of their costume.
And I literally took theG-string off my body and they're
(09:50):
like, Thank you so much.
And I've exchanged underwearwith someone to help them out
with their act because likethere's a broken.
It's just you want everyone todo well.
It's not about doing better thansomebody, like it's about
everyone putting on a great showor like you want someone to do
their best.
And it comes back to like theicebreaker at the beginning.
It's not about comparison, it'sabout lifting everybody up,
(10:11):
generally speaking.
SPEAKER_01 (10:13):
Do you think part of that is because burlesque isn't
for the most part competitive?
Like I know that there'sobviously competitions and
you've won so many awards, butin a normal show, you're not
really competing with the otheracts.
And if the other acts do well,the crowd's probably in a better
mood, right?
Yeah, I think that's some of it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:32):
I mean, potentially there is a metric shit ton of
competition within burlesque,especially in like the wider
world.
Perth doesn't really have thisscene, but it's a small business
with a lot of people who want todo it and be president,
especially when you're lookingat the professional side of it.
There's competition in that, youknow, people are vying for
(10:54):
different jobs, but it's notever I've particularly found
myself.
I can't speak for other places,but it's never been like I'm
gonna elbow down that person orun deliberately undercut that
person so that I can get the jobbecause I want the work or that
sort of thing.
I think because the neoburlesque scene has uh come out
of people reclaiming space andcreating a space specifically to
(11:17):
begin with for women, and thenit's obviously broadened from
there, which is beautiful.
But you know, I think it is itcould come about from people
wanting to do their own thingand be a community-based thing.
SPEAKER_03 (11:29):
Who is in your raft?
Who are the people that supportyou in your journey as Lisi
Lovegan?
SPEAKER_00 (11:35):
I'm pretty lucky.
I have uh built a it's it's nota huge raft, but it's a pretty
solid raft.
And like a lot of my my closewell maybe my just my friends
now, but we'll call them myburles friends, so the people I
go to with that realm.
Yeah, a lot of them have been mystudents who are now good
friends, and then there's mypeers who started with me.
(11:56):
I've got people who have similarhealth conditions to me and are
trying to live through a worldof life and also performing, and
then my partners are great.
Like even my work's pretty okay.
I have a full-time day joboutside of this, which is a pain
in the ass.
My work's pretty decent aboutit.
Yeah, my rafters definitely thepeople I perform with and some
(12:21):
other people in the community.
SPEAKER_01 (12:23):
I'm curious to know what the double life of Lucy
looks like.
So you have a full-time job inthe real world, and then you
have a a stage world with all ofyour bellesque friends.
What's kind of that balance likefor you?
SPEAKER_00 (12:36):
Oh, it's pretty tricky sometimes.
Like I get a lot of people willsay to me, I don't know how you
do it.
And like sometimes I don't knowhow I do it.
I'm tired a lot and I don'tsleep very well.
But you know, when you love whatyou're doing, my day job is it's
a full ass day job and it's anoffice job.
It's I'm in management kind ofthing, and I'm looking after
(12:57):
like the CEOs, and that I'msaying, I wish you could look
after yourself sometimes.
Trying to be organized and plan,and sometimes I honestly really
don't get the balance veryright.
Sometimes I feel like trying toearn a living and paying my
bills means that I don't havetime to be nourishing Lucy and
creating space and time to growthat identity and do what I want
(13:21):
with that, and then other timesit's my personal life trying to
find time to have a sit down andnot feel like that I should be
keep moving.
But yeah, it's a balance.
It's it's hard work.
I'm very blessed that I havesome loving, caring, kind people
around me, and I definitelymisappropriate some of my uh
(13:43):
office time with my other lifeadmin.
Never, never.
We would never be rhinestoningin the office.
Oh gosh, the amount of times andmy work is used to it.
I'll work through my lunchbreak, then start doing my
makeup at my desk at fouro'clock in the afternoon to try
and make something later on.
Definitely some probably lessthan healthy crossovers there.
(14:04):
But I I work really hard and Ilove what I do, so it's just
just trying to push through tomake time.
But I would like more balance inthe you know, the creativity
side of what I like to do.
So Lucy's time, I wish I hadmore time to dedicate to that,
to like actively pursue and growthat more.
But you know, I gotta pay thebills and but let's don't pay my
(14:26):
bills.
unknown (14:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:28):
And so when you do that and you put your Lucy face
on and the costumes and allthat, do you feel like you're
stepping into a separate personaor is it more of an extension of
kind of you who you are outsideof being on stage?
SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
I think it's an extension, it's not a separate
human.
It is me.
I like to think of my personalself is quite shy and like an
introverted extrovert, but andlike a goofy human.
I've got funny bones.
Everything about Lucy is just medialed up to 11.
(15:04):
It's everything that's inside ofme, it's not a completely
different person.
I think for me that works.
I'm not sure how it works foreveryone else, but it'd be kind
of exhausting if it wascompletely acting to be
something that you're not everytime.
So I think for especially withwhat we're doing, like I feel
really connected with Lucy, andthat's why my acts, what I'm
like focusing on, or like mybrain is like tending towards
(15:26):
creatively wise, is usuallydictated from what's going on in
my my life.
So if I'm just feeling like Iwant to be super goofy all the
time, maybe I'm having a greatfun time, maybe I just want to
do some more serious, likemoody, sexy things.
I'm like, maybe something reallygood's going on in my life, you
know?
Like it just depends what likeis is vibing in my life that
tends to come out in Lucy a lotof the time.
SPEAKER_01 (15:49):
So on stage, you literally have to bear your
whole self.
What's that like?
Is it exhilarating?
Is it terrifying?
Does it change sometimes?
Is it amazing one time and thenext time you're like, oh, I
feel really vulnerable.
What's that process like?
SPEAKER_00 (16:03):
Yeah, like I definitely remember the very
first time I got my bobs out andI was like, oh my god, this is
the best thing ever.
And I just wanted to do it againand again and again, hence why I
never stopped.
But I definitely am actually areasonably insecure human and I
have good days and I have lessgood days with how I'm
(16:23):
perceiving myself.
I think it's really, it's kindof like a therapy because I
don't have such great brainconnectivity with what my body
looks like sometimes.
That when I get all dressed up,I'm like, oh, you know, I'm
really fucking feeling my notesright now.
Like, this looks all right.
This that's not as bad as youwere telling yourself yesterday
about how this looked in themirror.
Shut up, internal monologue.
That was stupid.
(16:43):
This looks great.
People are clapping.
That can't be bad.
People paid to come see this.
That's all right, isn't it?
No, I love it.
I'm not gonna lie.
And do you have to be reallyconfident to do that?
Confident is a learned skill.
If you are waiting to beconfident to do the thing,
you'll never do it because it'sthe fear of that that stops you
(17:06):
from doing it.
Confidence is a thing you it's atool, it's a thing you learn and
grow with.
Yeah, I think I think it's ait's a thing a lot of people
when they start but less getdown on is that confidence
factor.
I would never have theconfidence to do that, you've
got the confidence to do that.
So I didn't start like this,like it took me a year of
thinking about it to do a class.
Yeah.
But by the time you sort of likebeen nourishing yourself and
(17:28):
nourishing your confidence, thenit's like it's just there.
But I think it's the joy ofperforming that is the
confidence part of it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (17:39):
And I think there's also this aspect of when you
first start, you look at otherpeople and you compare yourself
to them in comparison as theenemy.
It is.
It's a thief of joy.
Yeah, and it's and like I know Icompare myself to other people
in the class, or I try not to,but it's really hard when you
you I'm quite a chunky girl andI look at the other people and
I'm like, oh, they look so muchbetter in lingerie than I do.
(18:02):
But then they're looking at meand going, oh, she picks up the
steps so much easier.
Like everyone's at a differentplace and has different things
they're self-conscious about.
It's just kind of learning tolike, what are your gremlins and
how do you deal with them?
And I think like for me, one ofthe best things about the Beless
community is just that constantreinforcement of those positive
(18:22):
messages.
Absolutely.
Um, whatever they are, whetherit's your steps are getting so
much better, you've come so farin the last six weeks, or you
look amazing and your rack looksreally good in that bra.
Absolutely.
Like it doesn't really matterwhat it is.
Like there's just that constantpositivity that is catching.
SPEAKER_00 (18:40):
Yeah.
And you know, it's not toxicpositivity where people are just
blowing smoke up your ass justto make you feel good.
It's like, okay, well, like,like you said, everybody's
journey is different.
And that's what's beautifulabout it.
And I think it's reallyimportant not to focus in on
someone else's journey becauseeverybody has a different goal
for what burlesque is to them orwhat it means for them or it is
(19:01):
for them.
Because you know, some peoplemight want to do it just for
themselves.
Some people come in and I'veseen it.
They're like, this is what'sgoing to make me famous, this is
it.
And then that's very quicklylike, good luck.
Um, but it's everyone has adifferent path, a different
intention for their path, like adifferent requirement for what
they want to get out of it.
So everything, there are so manydifferent factors in there.
(19:24):
So the idea of comparingyourself is just so silly
because what are your goals?
What do you want to get out ofit?
You don't know what someoneelse's goals are and you don't
know how long they've been doingit, what their background is,
any of that.
So if you want to have fun,what's the point in comparing
yourself?
Why not just be happy with whatyou've got?
Because if you're comparingyourself, you sometimes don't
(19:45):
see what you've got going on.
Like if you're living in theshadows of worrying about what
someone else is doing, you can'tshed light on the the good that
you're doing and the amazingachievement and progress that
you're making.
So yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:58):
100%.
One of the interesting thingsI've noticed from doing classes
is a lot of the women,particular and if you are
listening to this and you'rethinking, Oh, I wish I could do
burlesque, but I'm too old, likeI'm 40 next year and I reckon
more than half of our class isolder than me.
SPEAKER_00 (20:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:16):
And there definitely does seem to be at the grad
shows a a high proportion ofpeople who are maybe their kids
have left home now and they'retrying to rediscover themselves
and reinvent themselves as like,what do I look like when I'm not
a mum anymore?
SPEAKER_00 (20:30):
Yeah.
And everyone deserves that.
I think that's the thing is likeeverybody deserves to have their
own, you know, their own loveand acceptance for their body
just as it is.
And burlesque is great for thatbecause it's it's not a dance.
There is dancing involved in it,and it takes things from dance,
but it's remembering that it'sperformance art and the great
things in the classes,especially like our like I can
(20:51):
only speak from my experiencewith sugar blues.
Like we will tailor things toability.
We're constantly asking, like,if this isn't good, let me know,
and we can give you anadaptation because it's you
know, you want it to beaccessible and you want it to be
accessible for everybody,everybody, everyone and
everybody type.
Like it's just I want you, Iwant you to feel you're sexy and
find your comfort and like getwhat you wanted out of it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
I'm interested in hearing a little bit about the
background of burlesque andKevin, how it's got to here.
So we've heard a little bit ofyour story of burlesque, but
burlesque has a long andcomplicated past.
SPEAKER_00 (21:28):
Yeah.
Look, I can talk for a very longtime about the history of
burlesque, and it would beabsolutely flawed.
There are some amazing humansout there who have excellent
history in that, but in anutshell, um it started in the
1800s in that um the theatre,and it's from the Italian word
burla, which means to parody.
(21:50):
So it's actually to make fun ofstuff, and it was all about you
know, political satire andmaking fun of things that wasn't
yet about, you know, stripteaseas we know it now.
Through a whole series of eventsfrom Europe, and then they came
over to the States, and longstory short, it caught on, and
it got really, really popular inthe vaudeville sort of era and
(22:12):
the follies, and all came up,and there was a lot of political
things going on with thegovernment being like, you can't
do that, and the women beinglike, Yes, I can, and doing it
in really interesting ways.
And it ended up, you know, itwas it's titillating, it's what
people were coming to see.
It was a bit naughty, and thenit eventually, this is such
paraphrasing, it died outbecause of free spirit and the
(22:34):
porn industry.
And then we had a revitalizationin the 90s with Dita Fonties and
that massive condensing of that,but essentially everything from
the golden age of burlesque inthe 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s to
the nowadays of it is it becamesort of like a feminine power
reclamation.
SPEAKER_03 (22:52):
Do you think that there are feminist roots
throughout the history ofburlesque, or is it mostly just
in the neo-burlesque?
SPEAKER_00 (22:58):
Well, I think my limited understanding of
everything, it sounds like evenfrom the beginning to me, it's
feminism because it was womengetting on stage and finding a
way to get around what wasaccepted to do what they wanted
to do.
So if it was dressing up like aman so that they could play a
part, or it was these were therules and regulations of what
(23:20):
you are and aren't allowed todo, but then finding costuming
or finding creative ways to getaround what they were and
weren't allowed to do.
Obviously, it is for theentertainment of the public and
male, male gays and things likethat as well.
But I it's always been politicalactivism, it's always been
feminism because it's it's goingagainst the norm.
(23:41):
It's going against what is theexpectations, it's it's fighting
social taboos, it's it's alwaysbeen that in one way or another.
But definitely sort of theresurgence has uh opened up from
there.
So it's become an art form and aplatform to extend to different
communities and different peopleand different like a diverse
(24:02):
background to open up for a safespace for that expression.
So yeah, that's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_01 (24:10):
Are there any performers that inspire your
style of burlesque?
SPEAKER_00 (24:16):
Absolutely.
I think because for me, I when Ifirst started burlesque,
especially in Perth, it was verya lot of classic golden age, but
more dancer-based things.
And it was about beautiful linesand um being sensual and things
like that.
And I just never thought ofmyself that way.
(24:37):
I'm like, I can't be sexy.
I'm not a sexy person.
I'm told now I do it okay.
Can confirm.
Can be sexy.
It's in it's in the tagline now.
But what I was seeing was a lotof what wasn't me.
Like it was beautiful and I loveit.
And I always aspired to it, butI was like, oh, I don't really,
why do I fit in here?
(24:57):
Because I just want to be adickhead.
I'm not a dickhead.
I'm funny.
I'm a bit of a funny sausagewith a dirty sense of humor.
So I've taken a lot ofinspiration from performers like
my dance mum, Agatha Frisky, andthen like even people like Kitty
Lachure was one of the firstburlesque performers I saw that
was doing the alternative stylesof burlesque, who was doing
(25:19):
comedic burlesque, so it's likeroots in the vaudeville style
and creativity in that way.
I think the more I started to goto festivals away from Perth and
started to say, oh wow, no,there are other performers out
there, fringe starting to seelike the atomic bombshells come
through, Kitten and Lou, and allthese different artists starting
(25:40):
to say, oh wow, no, burlesqueisn't just this beautiful
corsets and gowns and prettythings.
It was like, okay, things can bedifferent.
But I think one of the big onesfor me was Juliet Les Meuse and
her husband, who I can'tremember his name, they came to
Perth Fringe many moons ago anddid a show called The Freak and
(26:01):
the Showgirl.
And it was just likerevolutionary for me because I
could see this thing was like,okay, burlesque isn't like
burlesque is a spectrum, it'shuge spectrum, it encompasses so
much, but like I only really hadperception of what a small
portion of that was.
And to see literally, they cameout to as a cop to break in the
(26:22):
law by Judas Priest.
And I'm a big metal rock androll fan.
I'm like, oh shit.
And then they were eatingdonuts, and obviously it was a
commentary on the police, andthen it was just it got chaotic
from there, and it ended up itwas full nude, and she was doing
a handstand to like long,beautiful hair.
So you can put your your mindtogether to what was happening
(26:43):
there, and I was just like, Wow.
Um I study a lot of my historyso I can see like where the
roots of classic moves come in,and then also seeing like what
do I love doing?
So I think a lot of it just camefrom me being like, wouldn't it
be funny if or like that'sgreat, but that's funny.
(27:04):
So it's like I would have anidea that was like straight,
we'll call it, and then be like,oh no, intrusive thoughts, what
if it was funny in this way?
SPEAKER_01 (27:14):
It almost sounds like improv in a way, like
improv in the creation, and thenobviously highly practiced and
refined down towards some stage.
SPEAKER_00 (27:25):
Yeah, it's kind of I I guess I didn't fit in, and
instead of trying to fit in, Iwas just like, I'm just gonna do
my thing, and if it works, itworks.
If it doesn't, it doesn't,because like I'm doing this as
an adult for for fun.
I say to a lot of my studentsall the time, and everyone I
meet, like, if you're not havingfun, why are you doing it?
SPEAKER_01 (27:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
Like if you're not having a good time, why?
You're getting really stressedout.
And I hand up, I've definitelyhad a good period of my life
where I was getting reallystressed out, but I did too much
comparison, I get too much worryabout expectations and things
like that, and it really got medown.
And not always the nicest personto be around when that happens.
But I think, yeah, I just reallysort of found my groove and I'm
(28:03):
like, I just want to do whatmakes me happy, or like when
you're in a happy creativespace, you just think outside of
a narrow box.
And the more you expose yourselfto the different types of the
art form that exist, you're likeyour eyes are opened again and
again and again as to what itcan be.
There is nothing that can stopyou.
There is a space for any genreof burlesque, uh from like super
(28:28):
gory things to really comedicvaudeville things, the super
sexy.
Like there's just so much spacethere to just flex what you feel
like the burlesque is the art oftease.
It is not the art of seduction,it's the art of tease.
So like you don't have to besexy about it.
Like the idea is to tease peoplealong with like the the
(28:50):
storyline with what you'redoing.
So you can literally doanything, and it's marvelous to
not feel like you have to do onething.
SPEAKER_03 (28:59):
I think that there's definitely a subset of people,
uh particularly I think maybethe older generation who perhaps
haven't had the same exposure toburlesque because it is becoming
a bit more mainstream now, wherethey still think of burlesque as
essentially stripping and itjust being someone getting on
stage taking their clothes off.
And I think back to theperformances I've watched that
(29:21):
have really stuck with me.
And honestly, the stripping partof it has nothing to do with it.
I'm like, but they were dressedas a character from Despicable
Me.
That's the thing that stuck inmy head, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
Yeah.
So we're stripping.
We are stripping, and there'sone of my biggest bugbears is
saying that Burlesque is classystripping or anything like that.
It's it's a very negative viewthat unfortunately some of like
the wider public will have.
Like sex work industry and ourbeautiful sisters in the clubs,
(29:54):
like they're the ones doing thehard work.
And I like to think of thedifference between our club
stripping and burlesque stuff islike it's the intention behind
it and it's the audience.
So, like, if you go into a club,what you want is the end result,
and that's that's great.
And they're doing amazing workup there to entertain their
audiences in the way theaudience expects and needs.
(30:16):
When you come to a burlesqueshow, you you're there for the
journey.
So you're there for thestoryline, and everything else
is a bonus, essentially.
And it is that kind ofunfortunate social taboos and
stigmas that you have to workthrough for some of the older
generation, is like they justhave one ideology of what a
human form, like a body, can be,or the intention behind it,
(30:38):
rather than seeing everythingelse that it can be, which is
sad in itself because our bodiesare beautiful and why shouldn't
we celebrate them?
I want to see it.
That's a beautiful free gift forme.
Um, but yeah, it's it's it isunfortunate, but it's just, you
know, it's something that we cankeep working on the more we have
shows that are different themes.
And Perth, it's hard.
(30:59):
Like we're very insular with ourshows.
I think it's only people who arein burlesque or have an
affiliation with burlesque thatcome to burlesque shows.
It's really hard to get it outto the wider public to then to
knock down some of thesebarricades and to encourage them
to come and say, no, it isfunny, it is like circus, it is
like drag, it is, it is so manythings that are wonderful that
(31:19):
isn't just nudity.
SPEAKER_03 (31:22):
Yeah, just do you think fringe helps with that?
SPEAKER_00 (31:24):
Yes and no.
So, like fringe is a greatopportunity for us to have shows
out there, and oftentimes theyare the one time a year where we
get to work for a longer periodof time on a show so we can have
a solid thematic or somethingthat's a bit different, a
storyline-based show or thatsort of thing, and you're
working on it for a longerperiod of time.
(31:45):
So these are like gonna be themost ideally well put together
shows, and they're gonna be likereally schmick and like
good-looking ones.
So they're a great thing for thepublic to see, but then the
public still don't come to ourfringe shows because you've got
all these big names.
They go they go see the big onesthat have giant marketing
budgets that have been boughtin, they've been flown in, they
(32:08):
are the money makers of fringe.
And unfortunately, the Perthscene doesn't want to go see a
local show.
And you know, the economy at themoment, maybe they can only
afford to go see one or twoshows, and then they'll go to
the show that has an$80 ticketprice instead of going to three
shows that they can get for thesame value because they just
(32:29):
assume it's the bigger one.
It's oh, I've heard this fromso-and-so said it was good.
They are great shows, but thelocal shows just aren't getting
the walkthrough.
It's a double-edged sword, yes,it's a great opportunity, but it
doesn't always come out thatway, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_01 (32:45):
How can people support the arts more?
SPEAKER_00 (32:50):
I think just go tell someone, like, you know, this is
great.
It's because people don'tnecessarily come to burlesque
just on a whim.
They've heard it from someone orthey've experienced from
someone.
So please go see a show.
Just go do a class and have anice time and talking to people
(33:14):
about it, saying how fun it is,especially like with our raft,
you know, because like we're allhere to support each other and
like for burlesque classes,especially, like it's a thing,
and it's not for everybody, itdoesn't have to be, but it is
such a beautiful community and aliberating space.
SPEAKER_01 (33:34):
So you recently were at the burlesque Hall of Fame
for the second time in Vegas.
What's the next challenge foryou?
SPEAKER_00 (33:42):
Very lucky.
Well, you know, I worked hardto, but very lucky to have
competed at the burlesqueOlympics two years in a row.
I had a wild set of burlesquebingo that I wanted to achieve
with my my my career, and Irealized I achieved that this
year.
I was like, oh no.
I was like, I got in the um newbingo card.
Yeah, and I was absolutely I'mlike, okay, well, what's next
(34:04):
from here?
What things can I do?
And like I'm not moving out ofPerth anytime soon, so I really
want to start producing.
So I'm gonna try and activelymake some more space to try and
do the things that I want to seeand help grow in Perth.
So I want to start producingmore, I want to start creating
spaces for regular shows andhopefully try and create this
(34:25):
awareness of burlesque by thegeneral public by putting it in
their face a bit more in methodsthat aren't just shows.
So welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_03 (34:36):
Speaking of, uh, how can our raft help you uh help
with your next step and justhelp the burlesque scene in
Perth in general?
SPEAKER_00 (34:46):
Ask friends, talk about it, but definitely follow
any performers and go down somerabbit holes and like give their
Instagrams a like.
There is a few places that oftenpost a lot of workshops and
classes and shows and stuff thatare coming up.
There is an Instagram that is, Ibelieve, run by Evanson C who we
mentioned at the top, um, andit's Perth.burlesque.shows on
(35:07):
Instagram and is kept up to datewith like all the shows are
coming up on Facebook.
There is the Perth Burlesquecalendar, which is where a lot
of events are advertised inthere.
But the best thing you can do isgive us all a follow and a like
and like check out all thedifferent schools.
There are so many schools inPerth that have their own shows,
(35:27):
and you know, it's that wholelike and subscribe thing that we
live in now.
Unfortunately, it's the waywe're connected.
SPEAKER_02 (35:33):
But if you can please do that, find out your
Instagram profiles.
It makes it much more fun to goand look at Instagram.
SPEAKER_00 (35:43):
Yeah, and then you find their naughty profiles and
have an extra good time.
Oh yeah, there's that's the waya lot of burlesque performers
make their real coin is um byhaving their spicy content as
well.
SPEAKER_01 (35:52):
So there you go.
SPEAKER_00 (35:53):
You're welcome.
SPEAKER_01 (35:54):
Well, I was gonna ask what's yours, but I'm gonna
clarify what's your normalInstagram handle of the five.
SPEAKER_00 (36:03):
I've got no time for a spicy.
I thought about selling feetpics, but it's fine.
Mine is uh Lucy underscorelovegun because my
neurospiciness needed a spacebetween my name.
Um yeah, you find me on theInstagrams at Lucy underscore
lovegun and all those things.
I'm gonna make a new website andall that.
I'll teach sugar blue sometimes.
SPEAKER_03 (36:26):
Excellent.
And is there anyone from ourraft that you would like to be
connected with?
Is there anyone that you'relooking to build out your raft
with?
SPEAKER_00 (36:35):
Oh, I don't know.
I'm so keen.
I am always happy to make newnew connections with any button.
So yes, just a general yes.
SPEAKER_01 (36:45):
Unfortunately, once again, we are utterly out of
time.
SPEAKER_03 (36:50):
That's right.
But if you have a story aboutburlesque or you just want to,
you know, give Lucy a shout out,we would love to hear from you.
And where can people find us?
We are also on Instagram atraftpodcast, or you can email
hello at raftpodcast.com.
SPEAKER_01 (37:06):
And for previous episodes or to find out more,
don't forget to check out ourwebsite, raftpodcast.com.
Thanks for listening, Rafters.
Catch you next time.
SPEAKER_00 (37:38):
Like, what is this tangent that I was going down?
Oh, that's not relatable to usat all.
We went and shiny.
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