Bob London - CEO of Chief Listening Officers

Bob London takes the long view when he is out in the market and is never selling when he is out at events.

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Guest - Bob London
Host - Carl Grant
Producer - Seth Grant

Episode Transcript

Carl Grant (00:06):
Welcome to Rainmakers. I'm here with Bob
London, CEO of Chief listeningofficers. Welcome, Bob.

Bob London (00:13):
Hey, Carl, how are you?

Carl Grant (00:15):
Very good. So Bob, this is a really unique play
here. You're CEO of Chieflistening officers, what in the
world is chief listeningofficer?

Bob London (00:26):
Well, the first, the first goal of calling a chief
listening officers wiki was toget people curious about what it
is so that I've achieved thatwith you already. So I basically
what I do is help b2b techcompanies with go to market
strategy, particularlymessaging, value proposition
differentiators. So they can,you know, put effective relevant

(00:51):
messages out to through alltheir channels, whether it's
their website, their investorpitch, their sales pitch. And
the reason I call the chieflisting officers was because in
my many years as a chiefmarketing officer with both
public and private companies, Isaw that companies, too many
tech companies kind of assumethey know a lot about their

(01:12):
target audience. And they'renot, they need help listening,
basically. And so what I do isthe how behind the work I do is
I go interview my clients,customers and prospects before
every as part of everyengagement. And I you, I get
amazing insights, because I getpeople to open up about their
real problems, priorities andperceptions. And then I

(01:34):
interpret that and synthesizethat into a strategy for my
clients. And at this point, I'vedone about 20 401, on one
interviews with decision makersacross the b2b spectrum. So you
know, it's going really well,

Carl Grant (01:48):
yeah, that's a really unique play. I don't
think most people listen. Thesedays, they, they do a lot of
talking. And they're thinkingabout what they're going to say
next. And they're not reallylistening to others. So I think
you've really differentiatedyourself in the market. So I
also notice, Bob, and I've knownyou a while and in the
marketplace, your rows, wellrespected guy, you're, you're on

(02:10):
boards of a lot of influentialorganizations, talk about your
go to market strategy.

Bob London (02:16):
So my go to market strategy is based on the fact
that I don't like selling. Andwhat I mean by that is, I'd
rather spend my time talking tocompanies listening to companies
meeting founders meeting CEOs,listening to what their
challenges are, and eitherhelping them indirectly by
finding a solution for them andsomeone in my network or to

(02:39):
help, you know, sometimes I canhelp them directly or sometimes
a year later, I can help themdirectly. So my go to market
strategy really is about, youknow, strategically giving away
my time. I'd much rather, and Ido this all the time, for
anybody who's listening. I'dmuch rather do a one hour
workshop with a CEO and maybehis leadership team on either

(03:03):
how well they understand thecustomers and tease that out.
And or kind of whether theirmessaging is really market
friendly, customer friendly, I'dmuch rather do that for an hour
to do a proposal. So I findmyself only you know, the only
proposals I really do are toconfirm a deal that's already
been agreed to and kind ofscoped out. It's more of a

(03:23):
formality. And so it's I it'sall about engineering things, so
that I spend my time doing whatI want to do. I also do go to
events, but that's just morebecause I it's good energy. For
me. I'm an introvert. I've beenworking at home for many years.
And it's just great to get outwhen when there's no COVID, of
course, looks like things arestarting to open up. But yeah, I

(03:45):
do go out, but I don't go out topitch. I don't I don't even have
business cards anymore. Andthat's not to sound obnoxious.
That's just to say that, youknow, when you get to a certain
point, and you're well knownenough, you just don't have to
be shoving your your your salespitch at everybody, you really
let it happen organically. Andthat's just more suits my
personality. I hope that's aclear answer.

Carl Grant (04:06):
Yeah, no business cards that become a thing of the
past. It's, it's crazy. So So Iactually am getting this QR code
that's coming new company calledNew Age. So a little plug for
them, that that you can scan,scan your phone over this thing
and it'll it'll take you to apage that has all the links to
all your social media andcontact information. So not that

(04:30):
you need that. But

Bob London (04:31):
no, I love that idea. I love that.

Carl Grant (04:34):
It's cool. I'm talking to these guys next week,
and I should have it in the mailtoday. So I'm, I've never been
so excited about getting a pieceof technology. So anyway, so
that's I think, I think we'regonna see these things happen. I
don't know if you remember backin the day, this will date
ourselves when when peoplecarried BlackBerry's and they
can beam their information toeach other.

Bob London (04:55):
Absolutely.

Carl Grant (04:56):
Yeah,

Bob London (04:57):
absolutely.

Carl Grant (04:58):
I remember those days. So So Bob, it's it's funny
that you say that you go out toevents, but you're an introvert.
So I don't think I'm anintrovert. I think I'm an
extrovert. I go out to theevents because I like, the
energy and just being in themix, honestly, like you, I don't
think I think I could not leavemy house ever again, and, and

(05:23):
still be able to do my job. Imean, because once you've
amassed 15,000, businesscontacts, I don't think you
really, you know, other thanjust keeping those contacts
alive, which you can do by phoneand zoom, I don't think you need
to meet another person so thatit's interesting yet I still go
out, right? I'm hosting an eventtoday. As a matter of fact, just

(05:46):
because I don't know, maybe Ienjoy doing it. And it sounds
like you get a level ofenjoyment out of that as well.
But as an introvert, that seemsodd.

Bob London (05:55):
Yeah, it is interesting. And I have a very,
very smart advisor. Her name isMonica, London, she's my wife,
who knows me really well. Andshe's not afraid to tell me
what's what. And once in awhile, I'll say, Well, you know,
I don't know if I need to go toall these events, this event of
that event will say, you knowwhat, every time you come back,

(06:16):
you got stories you got, youknow, you've got you learn
things. She said, just keepgoing. She's like, sort of like
Shut up and get in the car andgo. And so I think that's good
medicine for someone like me,I'm an ambivert. I mean, I can
definitely, you come in, can youhear me talk? I don't much shy
about talking. But but the wholelistening thing fits with me

(06:37):
because I am more of anintrovert. And I'd rather hear
what people have to say. And soso the events do fill a role.
And also I, you know, I think ifyou look around the DC area,
it's a great ecosystem, partlybecause of your doing, and
others, of creating real energyand a real center of gravity.
And so the people are justgreat, you know, the people that

(06:57):
you meet are great. And as longas you're, you know, smart and
selective about the events yougo to, and as long as you don't
expect to sell something, assoon as you cross the threshold,
right? I mean, who goes toevents to buy stuff nobody's
aware now.

Carl Grant (07:12):
And that's another part of your story that
resonated with me, because I'mnever selling ever. Right,
right? I'm, if I'm sellinganything, it's what I can do to
help the other person.

Bob London (07:22):
I don't think I'v ever seen you, or heard you say
hey, let me tell you about cooing. You know, it's just not tha
's not how it works for you. AndI think that people more peo
le should be that way.

Carl Grant (07:35):
Yeah, no, but but you know, that, but the things
that I offered to do,strategically, lead to the need
for legal services, right? Like,I know, sources of money, if
you're going to close $5 millionof financing, which I'm helping
somebody do right now. They needour services, right. But I
didn't have to sell that. Itjust it was a easy outgrowth of

(07:56):
what I'm helping this person do.
And, and, or if you'reintroducing a CFO into a new
job, or, you know, any of thosetypes of activities, all of them
have components of, of what wedo, and people naturally want to
reciprocate to people who helpthem. It's just a natural thing.
I think it's unnatural forsomebody to not want to do that.

(08:16):
And so you're just, you know, Ithink what you're doing plays
into that, right. I mean,you're, you're doing it because
you like doing it, right. I likehelping other people, I think
it's very rewarding to helppeople raise money, find jobs,
help their companies besuccessful, eventually, they
have liquidity events, they makelots of money, they invite you
over to their nice houses. Imean, I, I enjoy all of that.

(08:36):
Right? It's, it's part of thefun of doing what I do.

Bob London (08:41):
You know, I'm glad you said, you really said it
really well. And I think whatwhat I heard when you were just
talking was, you know, it'sreally taking the long view,
it's taking the long view andsaying, I'm going to spread
goodwill and expertise and helppeople do whatever, whatever is
on their list I'll help themwith, I'm not going to shove my

(09:01):
list onto them. And then overtime, without expecting quid pro
quo, good things will happen.
And so the long term kind ofkarma driven approach is and by
the way, if it's appropriate,Rick Fleischer, who, you know,
course, serial entrepreneur,that easier, he's kind of the
guy who indoctrinated me intothat, you know, maybe 20 1516
years ago in that sort of thatwhole approach. And it really

(09:22):
fit me so well, because I don'tlike to. I don't like to sit
around talking about everything,every little detail about what I
do and why you should buy, youknow, that's just not made. So
shout out to Rick and folks likeyou for paving the way for this,
that sort of approach.

Carl Grant (09:40):
Well, there's a new entrepreneur who was moving to
Austin, Texas, where I am rightnow who I interviewed her for
the last podcast. So gottscheewe've got you Oh, she she, she
talked about, about beingrelational rather than
transactional. And and she doesyoung person, she's in her 20s.
And I thought that was veryinsightful for a young person

(10:01):
like that to to be thinkingabout that, right? Because so
many people you meet aretransactional, they want to
know, you know, what can thisperson do for me today? And,
and, you know, is there anythingI could do for them. And I found
a lot of people, particularly inAustin, this is a, you know,
it's a new town. For me, I spentmost of my years around the DC

(10:23):
metro area, I found that most ofthe people around here are very
relational. And I like theculture. Because I'm meeting
with people, I'm having lunchand dinner with people that
there's really nothing that wecan do for each other today. But
we like each other. And we knowof each other. And we're looking
to see what we can do to helpeach other, whether it's in a

(10:46):
personal situation, or abusiness situation, or, you
know, just in just as humanbeings, right, and you spread
that kind of I hate the wordkarma, but get good karma.

Bob London (10:57):
And I already already broke the seal. Yeah,

Carl Grant (10:59):
but it comes back to you, it comes back to you, Bob.
And it sounds like you've got alot of that going. And you've
turned your your kind of knackfor listening into a business
and packaged it up, which Ithink is really interesting.

Bob London (11:11):
Thank you, I really appreciate it. It means a lot
coming from you. And I, I doenjoy being having something
different. That that does, youknow, doesn't raise everyone's
eyebrows, but when it does, itreally works. And I think what
what I would summarize and thisis not necessarily for
everybody. You just talked aboutit when you connect with someone

(11:32):
and you like each other. Youknow, you I sort of follow the
chemistry, not the money, right?
So if someone is it, like Jeffcrafts from Hungary, you know,
he what he All he did was get anintroduction to me. And he
immediately grabbed on to theidea of listening to customers.
And he had he had that otherstartups before hungry. And you
know, I think what I found islike many entrepreneurs who do

(11:57):
it a second and third time, theysee opportunities to build more
customer intimacy before theystart, you know, spending money
building product, you know, morecustomer discovery. And so it
really clicked with him. And heended up referring me to some
great people. And ultimately, Idid work with Jeff at hungry
because I follow the chemistry,not the money. You know, hungry?
I'm not even sure they were wellfunded when I first met Jeff. So

(12:19):
follow the chemistry. You know,I like what you said, well,

Carl Grant (12:24):
that's good advice.
And so let's let's backtrack alittle bit. So you you weren't
always the chief listeningofficer, you had some industry
experience to lead up to this.
Tell me a little bit about that.

Bob London (12:35):
Yeah, so back in the day, when there was something
called long distance telephoneindustry, there was a company
called MCI, which I'm saying inan elementary way, because I'm
sure people have lost theirrecollection of or it predates
people. But it was a pioneeringit was sort of the AOL around DC
before AOL. So MCI came intobeing by attacking at&t, who was

(12:58):
the monopoly with a regulatorystrategy, basically, to say, you
know, monopoly, this monopolyhas to come down and MCI grew.
And I was fortunate to be thereduring an amazing time where we
were growing, you know, multiplemarket points share points per
year, market share points peryear in a market that was worth

(13:18):
hundreds of billions of dollars.
And that's it was a great placeto learn marketing, basically,
and cut my teeth. And I actuallymanaged at one point, a $200
million national advertisingbudget, which at the time, I was
not qualified to do, but that'show it was at MCI you kind of
learn and you go into it. Andthen from there, I went into the
b2b world. And there was a localDC area startup success story

(13:42):
called digitex. Which, as youmay know, about, which was the
internet infrastructure playthat went public twice. And
just, you know, really pioneeredthe area of web hosting and
managed hosting, and I was theVP fortunate enough to be they
were a client of mine when I wasconsulting, and then they asked
me to come on full time, and Idid. But ultimately, and I had

(14:06):
some other interesting stops,not all successful. And, but
ultimately, what I learned aboutmyself, or I was forced to learn
about myself. I enjoyed. I didnot enjoy managing people, and I
think it showed, you know,candidly, and I didn't enjoy
dealing with stuff that wasn'tthe work itself. And that's
okay. Right. In other words,some people are really good. I

(14:29):
was just talking to a reallysenior sales guy, strategic
sales guy yesterday, a closefriend, and he said, I don't
know what I'm supposed to do allthese reports, you know, like, I
got a job here to sell. And whatam I supposed to do all these
reports and updates and dealwith these meetings that are
political or related tocommission haggling and be

(14:52):
between divisions and stuff likethat. So I just I just want to
do work, I just want to do thework. And so consulting turned
out to be a great fit for me. Ihad enough of a network to get
started. And then I had to learnon the fly how to do my own
business development, which is20% of my time, or should be 20%
of your time. And so, yeah, butI learned marketing, I learned

(15:16):
b2b. And I learned strategy.
And, you know, that's all cometogether in this and then the
listening thing was really thebig breakthrough, like five, six
years ago, was, companies justspend way too much money on
marketing before they startlistening to customers.

Carl Grant (15:35):
Well, Bob, this has been great advice for our
listeners. I thank you so muchfor joining us today. And I want
to encourage our listeners ifyou like what you're hearing,
please subscribe and please rateus and share us with your
friends. Thanks so much, Bob.

Bob London (15:50):
My pleasure.
Anytime, Carl. Thank you.