Interview with Shawn Basler - Co-CEO at Perkins Eastman

Shawn Basler is Co-CEO of Perkins Eastman, an  architectural firm which he has grown to 1100 employees in 21 offices around the world. Listen to hear how he does it.

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Guest - Shawn Basler
Host - Carl Grant
Producer - Seth Grant

Episode Transcript

Carl Grant (00:08):
Welcome to Rainmakers! I'm here with Sean
Basler. co CEO of Perkins,Eastman. Welcome, Shawn. Thanks,
Carl.

Shawn Basler (00:15):
I'm glad to be here today.

Carl Grant (00:17):
Well, Sean, you and I met a few weeks back at one of
the first networking eventsbeing organized post COVID. And
you humbly introduced yourselfas an architect. And then as I
talk to you longer and longer Irealize this guy's a freakin
Rainmaker and, and so Shawn, howdoes one go from just so when I

(00:37):
say Rainmaker, talk a little bitabout how many different offices
you have, and and you have,like, 955 employees, according
to LinkedIn, that's a lot ofpeople, how does one go from
being an architect to being, youknow, co CEO of a large
architectural firm like you?

Shawn Basler (00:57):
Well, it's a process. And first of all, we
all enjoy what we do inarchitecture is a great
profession. And it's, you know,it's, it's, it's, it's sort of
the basis for what we do, butwe've been able to grow our
organization, which I thinkLinkedIn may be a little bit
understated, we're closer to1100 people, right now, in 21,

(01:18):
offices across the world. And,and our goal, when we set out
years ago, was to what we sayredefine what a large
architecture firm is, we don'tlook at ourselves as a success
being how many people we have,or how many offices we're really
a collection of individuals. Andwe while we're a large firm,

(01:42):
we've always tried to be a firmthat acts and feels like a much
smaller firm in the markets thatwe work.

Carl Grant (01:49):
When you started out, though, was it just you or
you and one other person?

Shawn Basler (01:54):
No, this this firm has, has grown over time, it was
actually founded about 40 yearsago by Brad Perkins and maraging
Eastman, and it started out as a50 person firm, and very quickly
grew. And, and over time, youknow, people have joined and,
and and others have merged. Andmy story is a little bit

(02:14):
different. I had my own firm forabout seven, eight years and had
offices in New York and Cairo,Egypt and, and in Dubai, and
then just, you know, throughthrough growing, we needed a
little bit more of a platform.
And Brad Perkins was a friend ofmine, and and at the same time
they were growing. So we mergedour firms about 13 years ago to

(02:36):
really sort of expand theinternational practice, but also
help look at expanding the farmdomestically to so and I think
then, I mean, we downsized alittle bit in 2008 2009. So we
were probably about 500. People.

(02:57):
So we've, we've we've grownconsiderably over the last 13,
14 years as we continue to toexpand.

Carl Grant (03:05):
Now, I imagine that it starts out with being a
really good architect, right? Imean, I presume you've got great
architectural skills, but thenthat's not enough, right? I have
a relative as an architect, and,you know, but he's, he's an
introvert, he doesn't go outnetwork like I saw you doing the
other night. Talk to me a littlebit about the other side of the

(03:28):
equation, the people dynamics inthe human interaction skills,
and how you go about buildingbusiness, you know, attracting
new clients, to your firm,attracting new architects to
your firm?

Shawn Basler (03:40):
Well, it's, it is all about people, relationships,
I mean, I believe it'srelationship first, I mean, the
company or the brand may giveyou recognition in the market,
but it's all about people andconnecting with people and, and
they have to trust that, youknow, us, you have to, you know,
we have to really get to knowthem. And, and I think that's,

(04:02):
that's really important for thesuccess of any architecture
firm. I mean, there's so manywonderful, great firms out
there, but it's, I think thatthe really good ones are the
ones that that really do buildpersonal relationships, become
friends with their clients, and,and understand their, their
businesses. More than than justlooking at it as as
transactional. And and I thinkwhat what we've always believed

(04:25):
in as a firm is, is a couplethings. One is you have to you
have to really enjoy what you'redoing, you have to really enjoy
the people you're working with,you have to get to know them.
Because that's going to, youknow, create the best product.
But we also believe that thatarchitecture is much more than
than form and function. Itreally has to have an impact on
the people and the places thatyou work. And that includes your

(04:48):
clients as well as the peoplethat use the buildings and the
places that we design. And

Carl Grant (04:53):
so when you and I met you knew that I was with
Cooley, and you knew thatCooley, it opened up a number of
new offices and You assume maybewe're opening up another one
being that I was in a town wherewe don't have an office. But you
didn't go into hard sell mode?
You. You just casually told me.
Yeah, we do. We do law firms,and he said a few other things

(05:13):
about it. And, and maybe youmentioned who you might have
worked with or known orsomething like that. But I, I,
since I didn't send a hard sale,like, I'm going to close this
guy right here, what is what isthe approach because I like that
better. I mean, if you startedtrying to close me, I might have
ran away, I wouldn't beinterviewing you on the podcast.

Shawn Basler (05:33):
I think that's a good point. Hard sales don't
work. I mean, I'm, I'm abeliever in building
relationships and getting toknow people. And and, and maybe
we'll have a chance to worktogether. But it's about getting
to know people first anddeveloping that foundation of a
friendship and understandingbefore you're really able to get

(05:54):
into business. And and I thinkthat's, that's really, really,
really important. And I thinkthat that leads to, you know, a
much better network, especiallywhen in a town like Austin,
where we do have a new office.
And it our goal is has been tojust meet people and just get to
know people and develop a greatnetwork and see where we can

(06:15):
help each other out. And, andI'm a believer that business
will follow them.

Carl Grant (06:21):
But so when you get when you get Intel, like here's
a guy from Cooley in a in a townwhere they don't have an office,
do you go back then and make anote and follow up? Because I'm
not the guy? If we if we did putan office somewhere? I'm not the
person that that makes thosedecisions. I don't even know who
does to be honest with you. Butthere is somebody who makes
those decisions. And, and so doyou take that information and

(06:44):
then go backtrack and try tofigure out who that is? and
reach out? Or do you just haveso much work that you don't you
know, bother to do that?

Shawn Basler (06:53):
Oh, no, no, no, we definitely would would see where
to connect the dots. And, and,and where we would work with
somebody and and, and as a firmwere really connected to within
our, you know, amongstourselves. So one of the kind of
the unique things to think aboutus is internally we're we're one
profit center also. So we werereally able to share information

(07:15):
and resources across the firmsay, Hey, I just met, met these
people in this town was thisgreat event I went to are we
working with them elsewhere,because maybe there's a small
town connection, maybe there'syou know, small world connection
that that we can bring back andto that relationship that says,
hey, we worked together beforein this other city or so and so
knows, knows your partner orsomething like that, I believe

(07:37):
in sort of building thatrelationship. And it's not about
about trying to sell work, it'sabout work and work going find
other connections, maybe withinthe firm, where we've, we've
we've worked together with, withthat firm or know people and and
i think that's that's, that's,that's a great way to build the
network.

Carl Grant (07:55):
Yeah. So if, if you were talking about something
that was a good lead for, for myfirm, for example, I would, I'd
be asking me questions, I'd bementally taking notes of, you
know, who else involved whatinvestment bank, what funds, you
know, I'm making notes, and thenI, you know, excuse me, I have
to go to the bathroom. And I'mback on my, on my phone. And I'm

(08:16):
and I'm sending emails toattorneys that know these banks
and know the funds, and I'mputting a whole set of machinery
in place. And you would nevereven know that I was doing this.
And I come back and casuallytalk to you, like we're friends.
And you don't know that I'vejust, you know, say, three
people on this opportunity justgave me a lead on. I don't know

(08:36):
if you do things like that ornot. But but that's kind of how
I operate. I hope not too manypeople I do this too. We are
listening, right?

Shawn Basler (08:45):
We all do that.
But again, it's it's more aboutnot not creating a hard sell,
but it's about I call them smallworld connections are the things
that we can, you know, kind oflearn about but somebody that we
just met that that may help makea connection somewhere else our
our leverage or relationshipthat maybe we already have, I
think that's that's that'sreally, really important.

Carl Grant (09:08):
So when I met you, you were telling me that during
COVID, you you wanted to get theheck out of New York City,
right? Not the best place to beduring COVID. And somehow you
ended up in Austin, Texas, andyou bought a house here. And so,
so how does one just come intotown? I'm asking this. I know

(09:28):
how I did it. But I'm curious.
How did you just walk into town?
You probably don't know us all?
Well, maybe maybe you have anoffice here you can leverage How
do you begin to make inroads?

Shawn Basler (09:39):
Well, I think the unique thing about Austin is
that everybody, most people arefrom somewhere else. And so it's
a little bit different than thanother parts of Texas. We do have
an office in Dallas, and I wouldgo there quite frequently. I
mean, I was there at least everyquarter If not, not more, and so

(10:00):
We and we have a great portfolioof clients throughout the Texas
market and, and people that weknow that that have have moved
there and, and including workingin Austin, so it wasn't
completely coming in in cold. Sopart of what I tried to do is
just one reach out to peoplethat we've been working with

(10:20):
already. Whether it was inDallas, or Houston or even in
Austin, people that we we know,that have relocated to Austin
and that have been there and andwe were able to sort of
reconnect with so slowlybuilding a network like that.
And I think just kind of gettingout there and meeting people.
And I think the great thingabout Austin, also during COVID

(10:42):
was people were still reallywilling able to, you know, they
were willing to meet so youcould you could organize a
coffee with somebody, you couldgo out and play golf, you can
have a dinner and and you couldyou could network, I think more
than you could in in New York,or places like New York or San
Francisco where where thingswere much more shut down. So I

(11:03):
think we had that, that luxuryin in Austin and the Texas
market where people were, we'recautiously you know, open to
meeting and so that thatdefinitely helped over the last
year.

Carl Grant (11:17):
So now you're back in New York, what do you what
does post COVID look like foryou in terms of being in person
versus you know, resume andthese types of things,

Shawn Basler (11:27):
I still believe in person is is so important. I
think there's a lot more touchpoints now that we can have, you
know, like in in zoom meetingslike this, but but nothing beats
getting together and meetingsomebody face to face and
grabbing a coffee or are havinglunch or something that nothing
replaces that I don't think youcan create the personal

(11:47):
connection over you know,virtually that you can in person
and getting to know somebodythere's sort of the whole
subtleties I think of humannature when whenever people meet
meet in person that you can'tpick up virtually. So I I see it
being you know, about the sameas what it was but maybe a
little bit more strategic on howin person meetings are used, I

(12:07):
think there's probably a lotmore lead up and follow up that
could be done. Virtually goingforward. But but the in person
and getting to know people is soimportant.

Carl Grant (12:18):
So what would be some people listening, they say
I like this guy, Shawn Bosler, Iwant to hire his firm, what kind
of what kind of companies shouldreach out to you?

Shawn Basler (12:30):
Well, we work with a lot of different people and
our our practice, I always sayno project is too small and no
project is too large. And that'skind of the interesting thing
about what we do, we we reallylook at add projects for one
weekend have a great impact onthe people in the places we work
they can, they can really have apositive impact on the
environment, we can, we can havefun doing it. And and our work

(12:54):
really ranges from large newcity masterplans and transit to
things like we're doing in EastNashville right now, which is
the whole new master plan aroundNissan stadium and creating a
new destination along the eastbank there to smaller projects
we're doing, you know, 1520room, boutique hotels and and

(13:16):
creating luxury destinationslike that. So our work really,
you know, extends fromcommercial and mixed use to the
institutional like healthcareand, and education and things
like that. And that's, that's abig market for us in taxes that
we see both the private side andthe public side.

Carl Grant (13:37):
And Shawn for the younger person who says, I'd
like to do what this guy does.
What advice do you have for forthat person getting started out?

Unknown (13:46):
Well, well, I mean, education is the most important
and so picking a good school andand doing an insurance
internships study abroad is soimportant. And, and, and keeping
an open mind I thinkarchitecture is such a wide open
field. I mean, you could reallyhave a great career, doing small

(14:06):
houses and you know, being asole practitioner to being like
I am running a large firm, andeverything in between, I think
you really have to enjoy it, Ithink you have to have to have a
passion for for the environmentand, and, and, and, and for
working in, you know, in a lotof different places with a lot
of different people.

Carl Grant (14:27):
Great advice. Shawn Bosler, co CEO of Perkins,
Eastman, thank you so much forjoining us today.

Shawn Basle (14:32):
Thanks a lot, Carl.

Carl Grant (14:35):
Thank you for listening today. If you like
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