August 6, 2020 • 40 mins
With over three decades of HR experience under her belt, Terri Lynn unloads a treasure trove of strategies and best practices to bolster your worth as a professional so that you can effectively navigate your career no matter what’s happening around you ... including living in the middle of a global pandemic. She takes a unique approach to building one’s career by emphasizing the importance of defining your personal brand.
Listen in as Terri Lynn shares how to become clear on your personal brand through raising your self-awareness, getting (and being) a mentor, finding a culture fit, and the exponential power of networking
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Introduction (00:01):
Welcome to the Raise Up Podcast.
The only podcast focused on howyou can get a raise at work
every week.
We're dishing tips and tricksstraight from the industry
experts, CEOs, and HR directors.
So, you can finally get paidwhat you're worth.
So, buckle up buttercup.
Let's break it down.
She's a little sassy, but a lotof fun.
(00:22):
Here's your host, AmandaLeFever.
Amanda (00:26):
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to the Raise Up Podcast.
My name is Amanda LeFever hereto help you make more money at
your job.
Today we have in our corner, mynew friend, Terri Lynn Cardona,
owner and HR Strategist at StoneSoup Performance Consulting,
bringing 20 plus years of careeradvancement experience to the
(00:47):
show.
Terri Lynn has worn a lot ofhats, prior to opening her own
shop, she was Senior VicePresident at Prometheus's Real
Estate Group in San Mateo,California.
It's one of the largestprivately-held Real Estate
Development companies in the SanFrancisco Bay area.
And before that, she was theDirector of Human Resources at W
(01:08):
Hotels.
When she's not at the office,she's helping to develop the
next generation of HR leaders asan adjunct professor for UC
Berkeley's HR certificateprogram.
Terri Lynn founded Stone SoupPerformance Consulting to focus
exclusively on helping peopleenhance their bottom line by
improving their employeeperformance.
(01:29):
She's all about you learning tobring your best self to work and
getting a raise.
Hey Terri Lynn, thank you somuch for being on the show.
Terri Lynn (01:38):
Thank you, Amanda.
It's so exciting to be here withyou.
Amanda (01:41):
I'm excited.
We've been chatting a little bitbeforehand and you know, COVID's
been pretty crazy for everybody.
Are you guys doing okay?
Your family's okay?
Life's okay?
Terri Lynn (01:52):
Family's good, life is good definitely in my
profession and the folks thatI'm supporting, especially a lot
of HR folks, it is morechallenging times for the folks
who take care of the people onthe inside.
And so, I think it's reallyabout us all just being good
people to each other right now.
Amanda (02:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I love that you bring thatperspective to your work.
And as you know, our show is allabout someone improving their
financial situation, likegetting a raise at your job.
So, you were in the perfectposition to bring that advice.
You've been in corporateAmerica, you know, like the HR
ropes, but you aren't conflictedit seems like in helping people
(02:34):
improve.
So, ultimately, they become morevaluable to their employers.
So, in your experience, how doyou think that people should go
about getting a raise?
Terri Lynn (02:47):
So, in my opinion, and I love how people always
look to HR folks to say, well,you've been on the inside, I'm
still an employee.
And when you think about beingan employee, you have to think
about who you are, and what youare.
And I always say, what's yourpersonal brand?
And so, if you think about beingan employee, and who I am, and
(03:08):
what I am, and what I'm going tobring from my personal
perspective?
That also ties into what HR cantell you.
And what we tell you is how canyou contribute?
How can you prove your worth it?
And how can people know who Iam?
So, let's just talk about COVID.
I don't want to talk about COVIDin great detail, but it's a time
(03:30):
right now where a lot ofemployers are having to figure
out, do I have the right peopleon my team?
And do I, maybe I have to letsome folks go.
And my advice to people are, asI should never be the person
that someone's thinking aboutwho they're going to let go,
because I don't actually knowwho I am or how I contribute.
So, examples that I can give youis just working with a couple
(03:54):
clients right now.
I've got a recruiter who's notrecruiting anyone.
And she's like raised her handfor a diversity and inclusion
leadership project.
And so taking on maybe somethings that you want to do that
you've never done and you havecapability and capacity right
now, making sure that you'readding value to the
organization, even if it'soutside of your job.
(04:16):
So, I think that's one way.
Amanda (04:18):
Absolutely.
So, I love that your personalbrand, I've heard that a little
bit.
Do you think that that is moreof like how you're showing up to
work every day?
Or do you think it's wheneverit's performance review time?
Like they at least know who youare, so you're not on the
chopping block type of thing.
Terri Lynn (04:37):
I think it's a good question.
If I were buying a pair of Nikeshoes, I'd know exactly what the
Nike brand is all about.
Personal brand is knowing whoyou are and who you want to be.
And so, when I think aboutputting together my career
strategy, and I think about howI'm going to go about getting my
raise, I gotta have some, someroadmap.
(04:59):
You know, some people say, do asmart plan.
Some people work with a coach,but at the end of the day, I
want to know what makes meexcited to go to work every day
and where I can bring my bestself.
So, I'll talk about myself alittle bit cause I think it
shows somebody who reallythought through their career
path as an HR leader, the commonthread, you mentioned Prometheus
(05:20):
Real Estate Group, you mentionedW hotels.
I also spent the very early partof my career working with
Wendy's restaurants.
I started in frontlineoperations, out of college,
managing a Wendy's restaurantand between Wendy's and then to
Krispy Kreme, which was anotherincredible company I got to work
for.
(05:41):
I also worked for who everyonewould know today as secure toss
contract security, the commonthread there is I've always
worked with hourly employees.
And so, my personal brand insidethe company is about
organizations that can helpindividuals be their best
selves.
But outside, I'm also doing alot of work with folks who maybe
(06:02):
want to grow.
That could be folks that are inthe immigrant population.
It can be folks that maybe areunderemployed.
It can be women that are indomestic situations that prevent
them from actually being theirbest selves.
So, my personal brand itself isabout knowing where I want to
work when I look for a jobbecause I am in the San
(06:25):
Francisco Bay area.
It would be really cool to be intech, but it's probably not me.
Where I like to play is hightouch, where I can see people
who are affecting customerservice, and I can actually make
their day better so that theycan make the day better for the
customers that we're actuallytaking care of.
Amanda (06:44):
I love that.
So, you touched a little bitabout helping outside of work as
well.
Do you take like a holisticapproach to your personal brand
then?
Like it's not just about who youare when you're at work.
It's also about like how you'recontributing to society and how
you're helping and volunteering.
Terri Lynn (07:03):
That's a great question.
When, and somebody shared thiswith me, so, I'm going to share
with your listeners too.
I don't know what I want to bewhen I grow up a lot of times.
And so, I start changing jobs,right?
And I go for this job and I'mlooking for the next quarter.
And two years later, I go to thenext job looking for the next 25
(07:24):
cents.
And I just keep switching jobs,but I don't really have a path.
And what I need to figure out iswhat fills my bucket.
And when you talk about workingoutside of work, sometimes I'm
not fulfilled.
And I'm like, I think I need togo back to school.
And so, I'm going to go make the$70,000 investment perhaps to go
back to school or take loans.
(07:46):
And what I always tell people iswhy don't you just go take a
certificate program?
Or why don't you go work for anot-for-profit and volunteer,
and do something that you'reexcited about.
So, maybe you love the greatoutdoors and you want to go
build trails or you want to be aranger, but right now you're in
accounting.
Why don't you go do some workwith REI and go build some
(08:09):
trails and see if that reallyspeaks to you.
So, rather than just leave onejob for another 25 cents, where
you want to go is to find theplace where you're so excited to
go every day.
People don't actually have topay you.
And I used to tell Jackie Severeat Prometheus Real Estate Group,
Jackie's the CEO.
You don't actually have to payme.
(08:30):
No, no, no.
I was just teasing, right?
But I loved what I was able todo so much that it doesn't feel
like work.
And so, what you do forvolunteer work can often fulfill
you, right?
In other places where you mightbe missing something that also
means you might need to takecare of your spiritual health,
(08:50):
your physical health, yourmental health.
So, all these components thatmake us great when they're all
in balance that we have to feedevery one of those even eating
well, right?
Is a part of our own personalself-care that helps us be a
better complete person.
That's going to make me morevaluable as a family member, as
(09:11):
a community member, as anemployee, as a team member.
Amanda (09:14):
So, where would you suggest that somebody starts,
right?
When they're feelingunfulfilled, would it be that
they find somewhere that they'repassionate about?
Or is it maybe I need to go downa spiritual path or I need to,
you know, where do you figurethat out?
How do you find that selfawareness?
Terri Lynn (09:32):
That's a wonderful, that's a wonderful question.
And I wish I was a guru and Ihad all the answers.
So, if you work for a companythat happens to have an employee
assistance program, we know themas EAP and many companies do,
EAPs are a free resource toemployees.
Everyone thinks that they're forthe counseling, but they have so
much that we can do from themthat costs you and me nothing.
(09:55):
And so, you can get call yourEAP or you can go online, that's
number one.
If you have gone to a communitycollege or you've gone to a
four-year college, always goingback to your career center or to
your alumni network often helpsyou figure out what you want to
do.
If you're someone who hasn't hadthe opportunity to go to
(10:17):
college, you can look at yourcommunity centers.
You can look at your recdepartments, right?
Or you can look at yourcommunity colleges, which are
open to all of us.
And we can take a little course.
And sometimes you just need togo find a mentor and within the
organization, right?
It could be, if you're in foodservice, it could be your
restaurant manager.
It could be the districtmanager.
(10:39):
It could be a team leader inhotels.
There are such wonderfulmentorship programs that take
place.
That's how we grow ourassociates in hotels.
And then of course, I wouldalways say that within an
organization, when I'm lookingfor a mentor, why not be a
mentor first, right?
And why not find some be openand willing to have lunch with
(11:00):
other folks that might belooking to tap into you.
And at the same time thatexchange actually benefits you
more than anyone else.
Amanda (11:09):
Absolutely.
I've never heard anybody say itlike that.
And I think that that'sextremely valuable for somebody
because a lot of times we'relooking for upward.
Like how can I find someone thatcan help me instead of how can I
help somebody else in theorganization?
Terri Lynn (11:26):
I've worked for Wendy's early on as, as you
know, and then I worked for acompany that everyone would know
today called Insperity.
Both companies actually did alot of work under the basis of
servant leadership.
And if you actually look at iton LinkedIn right now, Ken
Blanchard has some reallywonderful stuff about how to be
(11:47):
a leader that is really aroundserving others first.
And I feel very fortunatebecause servant leadership is
about kind of putting othersfirst.
And if we apply that ineverything we do, regardless of
our spiritual beliefs, I meanthe, or the world's based on, I
believe, good karma, you dogood, more good will come,
(12:10):
right?
Pay it forward.
And I think that's the way tolook at it.
And if you haven't had theopportunity to look at things
like servant leadership oranything by Ken Blanchard, those
would be some things that I'dtake a visit on if I'm a
listener and kind of do someresearch on them for myself.
Amanda (12:25):
Yeah.
I feel like we need more servantleaders in the world right now.
And I love that it's somethingthat is been kind of a hot topic
and that people are using andseeing such great success.
So, I did want to ask whenyou're consulting with corporate
executives, I saw you use aholistic approach, you call it
HPT, human performancetechnology, and it's
(12:48):
understanding the environment,the team, doing a gap analysis
on performance, figuring outpossible solutions and then
execute on the best ones.
So, can you tell us about that?
Like specifically if ourlisteners can apply that
approach to their ownperformance?
Terri Lynn (13:06):
Absolutely.
So, I'm going to tell you alittle bit about my story about
HPT.
So, I was one of those folksthat was not a hundred percent
satisfied at where I was in mycareer.
I wanted to really get intotraining and development full
time.
I'm in 18 years of frontlineoperations.
And I took a certificateprogram, and I took a
(13:27):
certificate program through anassociation, The Training
Association, ATD or TD as it'snow called.
And it was around humanperformance improvement.
And I got hooked.
I got hooked on the topicbecause when I worked for
Wendy's, I, as the personresponsible for the training
stores, there was a noticeabledifference in the performance in
(13:49):
the training stores.
When people understood how toperform, what the rules were,
how to execute well, you hadhigher customer satisfaction,
lower turnover, less food costs,I mean all the metrics came out
really good.
And in fact, I drove the storethat I was responsible for from
a sales increase of$19,000 to$26,000 a week.
(14:13):
And anyone in food service knowsthat's a pretty big number, and
that's back in 1980.
So, those were some huge numbersthen.
And what happened when I went tothis certificate program or on
HPI, I was like, that's me, it'sabout aligning people, and
aligning process to createoutcomes.
So, I went to Boise StateUniversity had one of the first
(14:34):
programs and human performanceimprovement says, let's really
take a look at the environment.
Let's understand what's aroundand what's in our way, or what's
our present state.
And let's work through some,some questions like, what's my
gap?
Like, why am I not able toachieve this?
What's my present state andwhat's my desired state?
(14:58):
And therefore, what do I need todo to get this result?
So, when I think about that interms of my career, I wanted to
be an executive in charge of HRfor an organization.
And the reason I wanted to dothat is I wanted to be able to
drive the culture of a company.
(15:18):
And I didn't want to just do thetransactional work.
I wanted to be the one that saidwe can make this company a best
organization.
And the gap that I needed was Ihad to fill in some competence.
So, in my case, I wanted alittle more education, which
actually just gave meconfidence.
I wanted to have more of aexecutive presence.
(15:39):
So, I needed to network more.
I needed to go to some socialengagements.
I'm not somebody who's veryextroverted.
So, I had to fill those gaps in,and I was getting some training
along the way at some jobs.
And I looked for jobs that wouldhelp me fill in my gaps.
And you use HPT to say, where amI now?
(16:02):
Where do I want to go?
And then I can write my plan sothat eventually I can get to the
results I'm seeking.
And so, basically, it's a kindof a way to do business
planning.
And then from a managerialperspective, I would absolutely
say that if we're not gettingthe best from our people.
And if our people are asking forraises and I'm not coaching them
(16:22):
or helping them so that they canbe their best, I also need to
help them where they presentlyare, what we'd like to see them
do differently so that I canhelp them hopefully achieve
their result or at least givethem the blueprint and then it's
up to them.
Amanda (16:37):
Yes.
I absolutely love that.
So, I have a question.
Why do you think that it feelssometimes very taboo to talk
about compensation and raisesand people are scared, almost
have these conversations intheir organization?
Terri Lynn (16:56):
There's a lot of reasons.
There's a lot of reasons.
There was a time when we weretold not to speak about
compensation.
And the only reason that wewould not speak about
compensation is because thatit's kind of an indicator that
not all comp is equal.
(17:16):
So, let's just start there.
You want to work for an employereven before you enter, and I
know this is about how do I getmy raise?
And I say, it's the point ofentry.
That's the first point of, am Igoing to get the money that I
believe I deserve for the jobthat I'm going to do?
So, I want to work for anemployer that's pretty clear
(17:37):
about our comp is this to this,does it work for you?
And let me tell you how it'sbased.
So, that's number one.
Number two, I don't, Ipersonally don't believe that
compensation and the reviewprocess should be tied together.
And in America, because of ourroots in human resources,
(17:59):
compensation or performancereviews came out of the fact
that labor is the most expensivepiece of the budget item.
And so, we came out of kind ofpurchasing way back when, and
so, when I have a review andit's tied to compensation, I can
tell you that most organizationsset their budgets at whatever
(18:20):
the cost of living is.
So, if I am an incredibleperformer and I'm only going to
get a 2.5% raise or a 3% raise,which probably sounds familiar
with many of your listeners andmyself, it is kind of demeaning,
right?
To always be a stellar performerand then have to go and say, but
(18:40):
I did this.
So again, I want to look for anorganization that maybe is not
evaluating my performance justbased on the common metric, but
maybe has some ways that rewardsme on meeting my objectives or
the overall company'sobjectives.
What I loved about Starwoodhotels was, and Starwood brand
(19:01):
was as an organization, as ahotel, each hotel had a
responsibility to achieve theoverall collective objectives,
and then the hotels objectives,and then there were team
objectives.
And so, we were all in togetherin guest satisfaction.
And if we all made those scores,then we all got X percent of a
(19:27):
raise or whatever the dollarcompensation was.
And then the last piece of why Ithink people are afraid to talk
about compensation.
We are entrusting managers tohave that conversation, but
managers don't even know how togo and ask for more money.
And managers are maybe notprepared to have the
conversation, either aboutperformance good or bad, but
(19:49):
then they're not maybeprivileged to how comp decisions
are made.
And so, if we would educate ourmanagers about how we make comp
decisions, allow them to be partof the equation, allow them to
be part of the hiring comp andget really good, full
transparency.
I think it would be a mucheasier conversation amongst
(20:09):
employees, and leadership, andmanagement.
Amanda (20:13):
Do you think that's a question that you should ask at
the point of entry?
Like how do you handlecompensation, performance
reviews, and things like thatbefore you even decide on a
position?
Terri Lynn (20:27):
I think it's a really great question to ask.
You'd probably freak out therecruiting team, because that'd
be like, well, no one's everasked me that.
Why are you asking them?
I there's tools such asGlassdoor where we can find
reputation about companies.
(20:48):
And I would tell you, I thinkit's a wonderful way to have
some understanding.
I believe that the careerwebsite of a lot of companies
will give you a good insight asto who the company is.
Is the company telling you thatthey're about diversity and
inclusion?
And then I can ask questionsabout that is the company, a
(21:11):
company that really wants me tobring my best self?
And therefore, my question wouldbe about what does that look
like?
And if so, what are you going toallow me to be?
And that's where the conflictdiscussion would be, because
comp to me is not only my basesalary, but it's all the perks
and benefits that I might get.
(21:31):
And then I'd also want to, thisgoes back to my personal brand,
and again, this comes fromworking for W brands.
Anyone who's familiar with Wbrands, it's pretty hip.
It always was a very hip kind ofa hotel.
There's a certain look that theybelieve the people who work
(21:53):
there have.
And I basically was always ablack suit and a purple shirt,
but we would be hiring peoplecalled, do you have the W look?
And I remember the generalmanager who hired me said, the
one thing about you is peopledon't think you have the W look
and I'm like, I'm a middle-agedwoman.
I don't know what that is.
And she's like, you're notnecessarily hip.
(22:14):
And I'm like, I got a suit on, Igot stockings on.
Well, drop the stockings.
All right, I can do that.
So, the question was, could Ifit?
And the answer was the core ofme could fit at W, the suit
maybe didn't work.
Right?
Definitely, one thing I alwayswear is really cool flashy
earrings.
That's a result of W now, right?
(22:35):
My little trendiness now is Iwear flashy earrings with my
still stuffy suits, where suitsaren't even popular.
So, finding out if I'm going tofit in that organization, I
think is more important than howam I going to be evaluated and
how are we going to becompensated?
Because if I can bring my wholeself to work, the money is going
to probably follow.
(22:56):
Right?
Amanda (22:57):
Yeah.
It sounds like culture is kindof the number one thing that you
want to be looking for wheneveryou're searching for a new
position?
Terri Lynn (23:06):
Without a doubt, I would say culture is the most
important thing.
And I always tell people, if youcan go sit in the lobby, maybe
not right now, but go sit in thelobby and see how people look
when they're leaving work forthe day.
Go, you know, again, if you're,if you're going to be working in
a restaurant, go see what theexperience is like in a
(23:27):
restaurant.
If you're going to be working ina property management, go do a
shop, go see what it's like toactually be a customer.
There's so many ways that we canexperience the customer
experience.
The employee experience shouldbe as good, if not better than
the customer experience becausethose of us on the inside are
(23:49):
actually the ones that make thecustomer experience come to
life.
Amanda (23:53):
And so, if people are more concerned with the clients
and not their employees, it'sjust, it's, it feels almost
backwards.
Yeah.
So, if somebody came to you,Terri Lynn, and they asked you,
you know, I'm feelingundervalued at my position, I
don't think that I can make atransition.
(24:15):
How can I go about improvingthis position that I'm in
currently?
What would you say to them?
Terri Lynn (24:23):
It's a good question.
I think the first question iswhy do you feel undervalued, and
understanding what it is that'smissing for them?
Is it truly something in thework environment?
Are they not challenged by thejob?
Sadly, we are often held back byour own leaders because really
good performers.
(24:44):
If I'm not comfortable knowingthat someday you're going to go
and I'm not comfortable growingyou.
I don't want to lose the one whomakes my life better.
I'm sure we've all experiencedthat.
So, I think the real question iswhy are you valued?
Or why do you feel undervalued?
And once we understand that,then we can talk about, is it
(25:04):
something that you need growthpotential within the
organization?
And can we find out ways thatyou can get that?
Can you raise your hand forprojects?
Or can you offer up someknowledge or insight?
If you don't believe that it'sthe right fit for you in an
organization, it might be timefor us to have you go shop.
I always tell people it'sabsolutely fine to go look on
(25:27):
the market.
Your resume should always beready.
And the reason I say that issometimes you get the call from
a recruiter or you actually getlucky and somebody calls you and
says, come in and interview.
And you actually go, and youcheat on your employer.
I'll use that word and you go,Hey, it's pretty good where I
am.
It reaffirms that you're in agood spot.
(25:49):
Statistics actually tell youthat by employee engagement,
most employees feel unhappyafter the first year.
And then there's a giant dip inengagement around the seventh
year.
And that actually mirrorsmarried life.
I was going to say like thehoneymoon phases, it's exactly
(26:11):
the same.
And that's what engagementstatistics tell us because when
you get married, right?
The first year is either reallyrough or it's wonderful.
And then it becomes horrible.
And then at seven years, all ofa sudden you realize that your
significant other throws theirsocks on the floor all the time
and expects you to pick them upand doesn't unload the
dishwasher.
Works exactly the same at sevenyears.
(26:32):
No, one's paying attention toyou.
You're a star performer.
You're steady, you're countedon, but no one is telling you
that they love you anymoreconsistently.
Amanda (26:43):
That's interesting.
I never thought about that aslike mirroring a marriage and
relationships, but that's aninteresting new perspective.
So, I wanted to ask, I know thatwe talked a little bit about
Upwardly Global and you hadmentioned that you help
immigrants.
(27:03):
Can you tell me a little bitmore about what it is that you
do for them, and how you helpimmigrants who are underemployed
or underpaid?
Terri Lynn (27:13):
Absolutely.
I think you picked that up fromone of my LinkedIn posts.
So, one of my passions, as Imentioned, is to really work
with non-profits that kind offit who I am, right?
In terms of what I really wantto do to help people.
And Upwardly Global was foundedin 2000, it's a national
organization, that's mission isto eliminate employment
(27:36):
barriers, barriers in skilledimmigrants, and refugees.
The reason, here's my story, andwhy it touches me.
I'm second-generation American.
My family all came here fromItaly.
And so, when I really thinkabout my roots and the
privileges that I've beenafforded through my family, it's
(27:57):
because they worked really hard,and they kind of paved the
ground for me, right?
To be able to go to college andto have this incredible career.
And hopefully, my children aredoing the same.
So, the work with UpwardlyGlobal and why I love sharing a
little bit more about it.
It's one of those hiddenresources also for employers,
(28:19):
we're often looking for reallytalented people.
The folks at Upwardly Globalalready have their visas, their
work authorized, you are gettingincredible talent from around
the world that is ready to go.
And what they don't have is thenetwork in the United States to
(28:40):
find work.
They don't have the connections.
And so, what I do with UpwardlyGlobal, been on the leadership
council for a number of years.
But primarily right now I do alot of work with counseling or
coaching, job applicants, right?
How to build their network,opening the doors through my
LinkedIn, and actually if youvisit my LinkedIn, you'll see
(29:01):
that I'm spotlighting some ofthe folks that I'm working with
w ho a re amazingly talentedright now that just don't have a
connection of folks.
The other thing about workingwith people who are kind of new
to the US, and want to buildtheir network, it's the same
advice for any job seeker.
(29:21):
You come here and you often takea job that is below your skill
set.
They call them survival jobs,meaning they're probably
working, unfortunately inquick-service restaurants.
I spent 18 years inquick-service restaurants and
Krispy Kreme.
And I'm, I don't think that wasa survival job for me.
(29:43):
It was an amazing experiencethat really shaped my career.
So, the language right there,yes, it might be the job you're
doing right now, but what canyou do in that job to show your
worth?
Or can you grow within that?
The second thing that I alwaystell folks that I'm working with
through Upwardly Global is buildyour network.
And one of the ways you can dothat is you can also go to
(30:05):
Toastmasters.
Toastmasters is a wonderfulorganization that helps us with
our ability to speak and not beshy.
And it's a great way to connectand meet people.
Conduct info interviews askpeople from your network, or
just like Amanda did.
You reached out and said, Hey, Igot an introduction from you
(30:27):
from Kurt Kuyper, who was onyour show a while ago and said,
I'd like to talk to you, ask forinformation interviews.
And then, of course, the mainthing is you get one job.
That first job is the job thatyou're going to leverage for the
future.
So, if I'm currently working,and I'll use quotes, the
survival job, if I really,really want to be a winemaker,
(30:49):
that's my dream job in theUnited States, I should probably
go find the survival job in thewine industry, right?
So, I can work my way up, andthen I can prove my worth and
many good employers recognizegreat people.
Amanda (31:08):
I love that.
So, I never thought about it asactually going and proving your
worth.
I've heard people say thatbefore, but some people are
like, I can't do that.
Or I don't want to do that.
Like, I feel like that's beneathme.
What, how do you coach peopleout of like that mindset, of
that I can't do that?
(31:29):
Or I can't work in the fast-foodindustry or any of those types
of situations.
I feel like they're, they couldbe stepping stones to bigger and
better things, but I hear a lotof times that they don't want to
be in those types of positions.
Terri Lynn (31:51):
Oh, that's, that's kind of a loaded question for me
because I think that comes backdown to your values.
No, it's okay.
I always, I actually pridemyself on what I call the
immigrant value, and theimmigrant value to me is many of
us come to work here.
My grandparents are greatexample.
Many of the folks that I knoware the frontline employees that
(32:12):
I have worked within my career.
And they're so proud of the jobthat they're able to do, whether
it's in housekeeping or as thebest drive-through cashier or a
maintenance worker, right?
And those jobs are probably lessthan what they were doing in
their home countries.
And so, again, I, as somebodywho has the privilege of working
(32:34):
and growing up in the UnitedStates, it's my bias.
That's making me think that jobis less than me.
One of the things I often hearis, well, I have a college
education.
I shouldn't be working at, youknow, work in the drive-through.
And the way I turned that aroundis if you don't think you should
work there, then please don'twork there.
Because I will tell you withouta doubt, and I throw this
(32:56):
challenge out there.
I still think I'm the best darnsandwich wrapper and sandwich
maker at Wendy's restaurants.
And it's been 30 plus yearsbecause there's a level of pride
you need to bring to yourself.
If you are not happy, when yougo to work, you're not going to
get a raise because people aregoing to know you're miserable
(33:17):
and your outward personality isgoing to show.
And nobody wants to work with agrumpy, unhappy person who's
bringing down the entire team.
Amanda (33:27):
Absolutely.
The attitude I think is it canbe contagious in a good way, or
it can also be very toxic.
And that's something that Ithink we have to realize that if
we are unhappy, people know likeit's not a secret that we're not
happy where we're at.
Have you seen that with peoplethat approach you in HR?
Terri Lynn (33:50):
Absolutely.
You know, and we talked aboutlike, I've never thought about
work, like being like a, amarriage or a relationship, it's
absolutely.
So, this is how I define justthe whole recruitment and
retention process.
From a employment brandingstandpoint, recruitment is the
attracting, right?
It's when we're looking allskinny and I'm working out every
(34:12):
day and I'm doing my bestbecause I want my resume looked
at now, or I want you to dateme, right?
And then I want to engage withthe person, right?
I'm bringing you flowers all thetime and I'm getting ready to
make that permanent commitment.
And as an employer, right?
I should be taking care of you,I want to make sure you have
your benefits, that's what Ioffer.
Or if I don't offer benefits, Iwant to make sure you have
(34:32):
flexible schedule, whatever itis, it's going both ways.
So, this is a healthyrelationship.
The minute you stop bringing meflowers, I'm given a choice,
right?
In a personal relationship, I'meither like, yo, give me some
flowers or I'm going to go findsomeone else who's going to give
me flowers, right?
And then the last part of thisattract, engage relationship has
(34:53):
cementing.
Same thing in being, having theopportunity to have a long term
relationship, whether yourdomestic partners or you're
married, right?
Every day I come home and I'mlike to my husband, Hey, how are
you?
I love you, right?
I'm reaffirming that I'm happyto be with you.
And by the way, thanks forpicking up those socks you left
on the floor.
(35:13):
It's the same thing at work,right?
I want to reaffirm myrelationship every day with my
employer.
And I want them to see that I'mhappy to be there.
So, when somebody comes to meand it's like, I'm not happy.
I'm like, do you even want to behere?
I'm that honest as an HR leader,because if you don't want to be
married anymore, then why bemarried to us, right?
(35:36):
Now, it's obviously verydifferent on a personal
relationship, but in the workenvironment, maybe not today,
but I can guarantee you in 18months, it will be an employee
market again.
We were in a drought, and it wasreally hard to find the
employees that we were alllooking for.
But in 18 months, employers aregoing to be fighting for the
(35:59):
talent they want.
And I'm always going to find thetalent that comes with a great
reputation and is happy to bethere regardless of the job.
One of the reasons I tell peoplenot to be miserable at work, it
doesn't matter when I, when youleave and go look for a job.
(36:21):
The new employer is going tocall maybe the HR team and the
HR team is never going to say,Oh, Amanda was miserable at
work.
But a lot of us get referredfrom our network.
And if the people you haveworked with only remember you as
being really unhappy and notwilling to contribute, they're
(36:43):
not going to recommend you forthe next job.
So, think about it this way, thepeople that you are working
around, that's your futurereferral basis as well.
And so, I want people to knowthat I am so thrilled to be at
work and I'm pleasant, that theywould want to refer me to the
next job as well.
That's my employment brandagain, it's my personal brand.
Amanda (37:05):
Yeah.
I love that.
And I love that you kind ofbrought it back around to the
personal brand because I feellike that's huge for people.
And I have so many morequestions, but we have to close.
This has been so good.
Terri Lynn, tell our listenershow they can connect with you
and, and find out more if theywant to about Stone Soup.
Terri Lynn (37:25):
Well, first of all, Amanda, once again, thank you so
much.
Just the opportunity to shareinsights and, you know, offer
advice.
If it is such a thing thatpeople are finding and that it
is inspiring to folks, I just amhonored and privileged that you
have asked me to be here.
So, you can find Stone SoupPerformance Consulting on the
(37:48):
web.
It's Stone Soup PerformanceConsulting.com.
My LinkedIn is T L Cardona,you'll find me, I love it when
people ping me and reach out.
You will find that in mywebsite, and who my story is,
(38:09):
and why I love to work withorganizations.
It's really, for me, it's aboutbuilding your culture on the
inside.
And sometimes that's just aboutmaking sure that what we are
going to promise to employees weactually can deliver.
So, that's number one.
And then for any executive thatreally wants to talk further and
deeper about how they can takeadvantage and connect in the
(38:32):
community with organizationssuch as Upwardly Global, or
really want to work on their ownteam and their own thinking,
reach out the tabid dialogue.
It's always a privilege, and anhonor to me to be able to help
other organizations.
I started my own businessbecause I actually retired, but
I love the topic of being ableto be a great organization where
(38:57):
all people can belong and beincluded.
And then most importantly, thatI, as an employer can be a place
where everybody wants to be.
And I'm an employer of choicebecause it's the right thing to
do, and not because I have to doit.
So, I'm the girl who you want tohave a conversation with.
Amanda (39:15):
Absolutely, and this has been one of those conversations
for sure.
I feel like you brought so muchinsight and, and great advice.
It was, it was advice.
You said you didn't know ifthat's what it was, but it was.
So, I just want to say thank youagain for being on the show.
This has been an awesome,awesome episode.
And I think people are going toget a lot out of this one.
(39:35):
So, thank you.
Terri Lynn (39:37):
Thank you so much, Amanda.
Amanda (39:39):
Yeah, all right.
You guys, we will talk to yousoon.
Bye
Outtro (39:47):
Thanks for listening to the Raise Up Podcast.
If you want a raise, head towww.RaiseUpPodcast.com and
download our step by steproadmap where we've taken all
the expert advice we'vecollected, and put it into a
simple PDF ebook called, youguessed it, how to ask for a
raise.
Before you join us again, makesure to subscribe, share it with
(40:08):
your friends.
You can click the share button,take a screenshot, and share it
on your social stories and tag,@AmandaLeFever.
We'll see you again soon.
Welcome to the Raise Up Podcast.
The only podcast focused on howyou can get a raise at work
every week.
We're dishing tips and tricksstraight from the industry
experts, CEOs, and HR directors.
So, you can finally get paidwhat you're worth.
So, buckle up buttercup.
Let's break it down.
She's a little sassy, but a lotof fun.
(00:22):
Here's your host, AmandaLeFever.
Amanda (00:26):
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to the Raise Up Podcast.
My name is Amanda LeFever hereto help you make more money at
your job.
Today we have in our corner, mynew friend, Terri Lynn Cardona,
owner and HR Strategist at StoneSoup Performance Consulting,
bringing 20 plus years of careeradvancement experience to the
(00:47):
show.
Terri Lynn has worn a lot ofhats, prior to opening her own
shop, she was Senior VicePresident at Prometheus's Real
Estate Group in San Mateo,California.
It's one of the largestprivately-held Real Estate
Development companies in the SanFrancisco Bay area.
And before that, she was theDirector of Human Resources at W
(01:08):
Hotels.
When she's not at the office,she's helping to develop the
next generation of HR leaders asan adjunct professor for UC
Berkeley's HR certificateprogram.
Terri Lynn founded Stone SoupPerformance Consulting to focus
exclusively on helping peopleenhance their bottom line by
improving their employeeperformance.
(01:29):
She's all about you learning tobring your best self to work and
getting a raise.
Hey Terri Lynn, thank you somuch for being on the show.
Terri Lynn (01:38):
Thank you, Amanda.
It's so exciting to be here withyou.
Amanda (01:41):
I'm excited.
We've been chatting a little bitbeforehand and you know, COVID's
been pretty crazy for everybody.
Are you guys doing okay?
Your family's okay?
Life's okay?
Terri Lynn (01:52):
Family's good, life is good definitely in my
profession and the folks thatI'm supporting, especially a lot
of HR folks, it is morechallenging times for the folks
who take care of the people onthe inside.
And so, I think it's reallyabout us all just being good
people to each other right now.
Amanda (02:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I love that you bring thatperspective to your work.
And as you know, our show is allabout someone improving their
financial situation, likegetting a raise at your job.
So, you were in the perfectposition to bring that advice.
You've been in corporateAmerica, you know, like the HR
ropes, but you aren't conflictedit seems like in helping people
(02:34):
improve.
So, ultimately, they become morevaluable to their employers.
So, in your experience, how doyou think that people should go
about getting a raise?
Terri Lynn (02:47):
So, in my opinion, and I love how people always
look to HR folks to say, well,you've been on the inside, I'm
still an employee.
And when you think about beingan employee, you have to think
about who you are, and what youare.
And I always say, what's yourpersonal brand?
And so, if you think about beingan employee, and who I am, and
(03:08):
what I am, and what I'm going tobring from my personal
perspective?
That also ties into what HR cantell you.
And what we tell you is how canyou contribute?
How can you prove your worth it?
And how can people know who Iam?
So, let's just talk about COVID.
I don't want to talk about COVIDin great detail, but it's a time
(03:30):
right now where a lot ofemployers are having to figure
out, do I have the right peopleon my team?
And do I, maybe I have to letsome folks go.
And my advice to people are, asI should never be the person
that someone's thinking aboutwho they're going to let go,
because I don't actually knowwho I am or how I contribute.
So, examples that I can give youis just working with a couple
(03:54):
clients right now.
I've got a recruiter who's notrecruiting anyone.
And she's like raised her handfor a diversity and inclusion
leadership project.
And so taking on maybe somethings that you want to do that
you've never done and you havecapability and capacity right
now, making sure that you'readding value to the
organization, even if it'soutside of your job.
(04:16):
So, I think that's one way.
Amanda (04:18):
Absolutely.
So, I love that your personalbrand, I've heard that a little
bit.
Do you think that that is moreof like how you're showing up to
work every day?
Or do you think it's wheneverit's performance review time?
Like they at least know who youare, so you're not on the
chopping block type of thing.
Terri Lynn (04:37):
I think it's a good question.
If I were buying a pair of Nikeshoes, I'd know exactly what the
Nike brand is all about.
Personal brand is knowing whoyou are and who you want to be.
And so, when I think aboutputting together my career
strategy, and I think about howI'm going to go about getting my
raise, I gotta have some, someroadmap.
(04:59):
You know, some people say, do asmart plan.
Some people work with a coach,but at the end of the day, I
want to know what makes meexcited to go to work every day
and where I can bring my bestself.
So, I'll talk about myself alittle bit cause I think it
shows somebody who reallythought through their career
path as an HR leader, the commonthread, you mentioned Prometheus
(05:20):
Real Estate Group, you mentionedW hotels.
I also spent the very early partof my career working with
Wendy's restaurants.
I started in frontlineoperations, out of college,
managing a Wendy's restaurantand between Wendy's and then to
Krispy Kreme, which was anotherincredible company I got to work
for.
(05:41):
I also worked for who everyonewould know today as secure toss
contract security, the commonthread there is I've always
worked with hourly employees.
And so, my personal brand insidethe company is about
organizations that can helpindividuals be their best
selves.
But outside, I'm also doing alot of work with folks who maybe
(06:02):
want to grow.
That could be folks that are inthe immigrant population.
It can be folks that maybe areunderemployed.
It can be women that are indomestic situations that prevent
them from actually being theirbest selves.
So, my personal brand itself isabout knowing where I want to
work when I look for a jobbecause I am in the San
(06:25):
Francisco Bay area.
It would be really cool to be intech, but it's probably not me.
Where I like to play is hightouch, where I can see people
who are affecting customerservice, and I can actually make
their day better so that theycan make the day better for the
customers that we're actuallytaking care of.
Amanda (06:44):
I love that.
So, you touched a little bitabout helping outside of work as
well.
Do you take like a holisticapproach to your personal brand
then?
Like it's not just about who youare when you're at work.
It's also about like how you'recontributing to society and how
you're helping and volunteering.
Terri Lynn (07:03):
That's a great question.
When, and somebody shared thiswith me, so, I'm going to share
with your listeners too.
I don't know what I want to bewhen I grow up a lot of times.
And so, I start changing jobs,right?
And I go for this job and I'mlooking for the next quarter.
And two years later, I go to thenext job looking for the next 25
(07:24):
cents.
And I just keep switching jobs,but I don't really have a path.
And what I need to figure out iswhat fills my bucket.
And when you talk about workingoutside of work, sometimes I'm
not fulfilled.
And I'm like, I think I need togo back to school.
And so, I'm going to go make the$70,000 investment perhaps to go
back to school or take loans.
(07:46):
And what I always tell people iswhy don't you just go take a
certificate program?
Or why don't you go work for anot-for-profit and volunteer,
and do something that you'reexcited about.
So, maybe you love the greatoutdoors and you want to go
build trails or you want to be aranger, but right now you're in
accounting.
Why don't you go do some workwith REI and go build some
(08:09):
trails and see if that reallyspeaks to you.
So, rather than just leave onejob for another 25 cents, where
you want to go is to find theplace where you're so excited to
go every day.
People don't actually have topay you.
And I used to tell Jackie Severeat Prometheus Real Estate Group,
Jackie's the CEO.
You don't actually have to payme.
(08:30):
No, no, no.
I was just teasing, right?
But I loved what I was able todo so much that it doesn't feel
like work.
And so, what you do forvolunteer work can often fulfill
you, right?
In other places where you mightbe missing something that also
means you might need to takecare of your spiritual health,
(08:50):
your physical health, yourmental health.
So, all these components thatmake us great when they're all
in balance that we have to feedevery one of those even eating
well, right?
Is a part of our own personalself-care that helps us be a
better complete person.
That's going to make me morevaluable as a family member, as
(09:11):
a community member, as anemployee, as a team member.
Amanda (09:14):
So, where would you suggest that somebody starts,
right?
When they're feelingunfulfilled, would it be that
they find somewhere that they'repassionate about?
Or is it maybe I need to go downa spiritual path or I need to,
you know, where do you figurethat out?
How do you find that selfawareness?
Terri Lynn (09:32):
That's a wonderful, that's a wonderful question.
And I wish I was a guru and Ihad all the answers.
So, if you work for a companythat happens to have an employee
assistance program, we know themas EAP and many companies do,
EAPs are a free resource toemployees.
Everyone thinks that they're forthe counseling, but they have so
much that we can do from themthat costs you and me nothing.
(09:55):
And so, you can get call yourEAP or you can go online, that's
number one.
If you have gone to a communitycollege or you've gone to a
four-year college, always goingback to your career center or to
your alumni network often helpsyou figure out what you want to
do.
If you're someone who hasn't hadthe opportunity to go to
(10:17):
college, you can look at yourcommunity centers.
You can look at your recdepartments, right?
Or you can look at yourcommunity colleges, which are
open to all of us.
And we can take a little course.
And sometimes you just need togo find a mentor and within the
organization, right?
It could be, if you're in foodservice, it could be your
restaurant manager.
It could be the districtmanager.
(10:39):
It could be a team leader inhotels.
There are such wonderfulmentorship programs that take
place.
That's how we grow ourassociates in hotels.
And then of course, I wouldalways say that within an
organization, when I'm lookingfor a mentor, why not be a
mentor first, right?
And why not find some be openand willing to have lunch with
(11:00):
other folks that might belooking to tap into you.
And at the same time thatexchange actually benefits you
more than anyone else.
Amanda (11:09):
Absolutely.
I've never heard anybody say itlike that.
And I think that that'sextremely valuable for somebody
because a lot of times we'relooking for upward.
Like how can I find someone thatcan help me instead of how can I
help somebody else in theorganization?
Terri Lynn (11:26):
I've worked for Wendy's early on as, as you
know, and then I worked for acompany that everyone would know
today called Insperity.
Both companies actually did alot of work under the basis of
servant leadership.
And if you actually look at iton LinkedIn right now, Ken
Blanchard has some reallywonderful stuff about how to be
(11:47):
a leader that is really aroundserving others first.
And I feel very fortunatebecause servant leadership is
about kind of putting othersfirst.
And if we apply that ineverything we do, regardless of
our spiritual beliefs, I meanthe, or the world's based on, I
believe, good karma, you dogood, more good will come,
(12:10):
right?
Pay it forward.
And I think that's the way tolook at it.
And if you haven't had theopportunity to look at things
like servant leadership oranything by Ken Blanchard, those
would be some things that I'dtake a visit on if I'm a
listener and kind of do someresearch on them for myself.
Amanda (12:25):
Yeah.
I feel like we need more servantleaders in the world right now.
And I love that it's somethingthat is been kind of a hot topic
and that people are using andseeing such great success.
So, I did want to ask whenyou're consulting with corporate
executives, I saw you use aholistic approach, you call it
HPT, human performancetechnology, and it's
(12:48):
understanding the environment,the team, doing a gap analysis
on performance, figuring outpossible solutions and then
execute on the best ones.
So, can you tell us about that?
Like specifically if ourlisteners can apply that
approach to their ownperformance?
Terri Lynn (13:06):
Absolutely.
So, I'm going to tell you alittle bit about my story about
HPT.
So, I was one of those folksthat was not a hundred percent
satisfied at where I was in mycareer.
I wanted to really get intotraining and development full
time.
I'm in 18 years of frontlineoperations.
And I took a certificateprogram, and I took a
(13:27):
certificate program through anassociation, The Training
Association, ATD or TD as it'snow called.
And it was around humanperformance improvement.
And I got hooked.
I got hooked on the topicbecause when I worked for
Wendy's, I, as the personresponsible for the training
stores, there was a noticeabledifference in the performance in
(13:49):
the training stores.
When people understood how toperform, what the rules were,
how to execute well, you hadhigher customer satisfaction,
lower turnover, less food costs,I mean all the metrics came out
really good.
And in fact, I drove the storethat I was responsible for from
a sales increase of$19,000 to$26,000 a week.
(14:13):
And anyone in food service knowsthat's a pretty big number, and
that's back in 1980.
So, those were some huge numbersthen.
And what happened when I went tothis certificate program or on
HPI, I was like, that's me, it'sabout aligning people, and
aligning process to createoutcomes.
So, I went to Boise StateUniversity had one of the first
(14:34):
programs and human performanceimprovement says, let's really
take a look at the environment.
Let's understand what's aroundand what's in our way, or what's
our present state.
And let's work through some,some questions like, what's my
gap?
Like, why am I not able toachieve this?
What's my present state andwhat's my desired state?
(14:58):
And therefore, what do I need todo to get this result?
So, when I think about that interms of my career, I wanted to
be an executive in charge of HRfor an organization.
And the reason I wanted to dothat is I wanted to be able to
drive the culture of a company.
(15:18):
And I didn't want to just do thetransactional work.
I wanted to be the one that saidwe can make this company a best
organization.
And the gap that I needed was Ihad to fill in some competence.
So, in my case, I wanted alittle more education, which
actually just gave meconfidence.
I wanted to have more of aexecutive presence.
(15:39):
So, I needed to network more.
I needed to go to some socialengagements.
I'm not somebody who's veryextroverted.
So, I had to fill those gaps in,and I was getting some training
along the way at some jobs.
And I looked for jobs that wouldhelp me fill in my gaps.
And you use HPT to say, where amI now?
(16:02):
Where do I want to go?
And then I can write my plan sothat eventually I can get to the
results I'm seeking.
And so, basically, it's a kindof a way to do business
planning.
And then from a managerialperspective, I would absolutely
say that if we're not gettingthe best from our people.
And if our people are asking forraises and I'm not coaching them
(16:22):
or helping them so that they canbe their best, I also need to
help them where they presentlyare, what we'd like to see them
do differently so that I canhelp them hopefully achieve
their result or at least givethem the blueprint and then it's
up to them.
Amanda (16:37):
Yes.
I absolutely love that.
So, I have a question.
Why do you think that it feelssometimes very taboo to talk
about compensation and raisesand people are scared, almost
have these conversations intheir organization?
Terri Lynn (16:56):
There's a lot of reasons.
There's a lot of reasons.
There was a time when we weretold not to speak about
compensation.
And the only reason that wewould not speak about
compensation is because thatit's kind of an indicator that
not all comp is equal.
(17:16):
So, let's just start there.
You want to work for an employereven before you enter, and I
know this is about how do I getmy raise?
And I say, it's the point ofentry.
That's the first point of, am Igoing to get the money that I
believe I deserve for the jobthat I'm going to do?
So, I want to work for anemployer that's pretty clear
(17:37):
about our comp is this to this,does it work for you?
And let me tell you how it'sbased.
So, that's number one.
Number two, I don't, Ipersonally don't believe that
compensation and the reviewprocess should be tied together.
And in America, because of ourroots in human resources,
(17:59):
compensation or performancereviews came out of the fact
that labor is the most expensivepiece of the budget item.
And so, we came out of kind ofpurchasing way back when, and
so, when I have a review andit's tied to compensation, I can
tell you that most organizationsset their budgets at whatever
(18:20):
the cost of living is.
So, if I am an incredibleperformer and I'm only going to
get a 2.5% raise or a 3% raise,which probably sounds familiar
with many of your listeners andmyself, it is kind of demeaning,
right?
To always be a stellar performerand then have to go and say, but
(18:40):
I did this.
So again, I want to look for anorganization that maybe is not
evaluating my performance justbased on the common metric, but
maybe has some ways that rewardsme on meeting my objectives or
the overall company'sobjectives.
What I loved about Starwoodhotels was, and Starwood brand
(19:01):
was as an organization, as ahotel, each hotel had a
responsibility to achieve theoverall collective objectives,
and then the hotels objectives,and then there were team
objectives.
And so, we were all in togetherin guest satisfaction.
And if we all made those scores,then we all got X percent of a
(19:27):
raise or whatever the dollarcompensation was.
And then the last piece of why Ithink people are afraid to talk
about compensation.
We are entrusting managers tohave that conversation, but
managers don't even know how togo and ask for more money.
And managers are maybe notprepared to have the
conversation, either aboutperformance good or bad, but
(19:49):
then they're not maybeprivileged to how comp decisions
are made.
And so, if we would educate ourmanagers about how we make comp
decisions, allow them to be partof the equation, allow them to
be part of the hiring comp andget really good, full
transparency.
I think it would be a mucheasier conversation amongst
(20:09):
employees, and leadership, andmanagement.
Amanda (20:13):
Do you think that's a question that you should ask at
the point of entry?
Like how do you handlecompensation, performance
reviews, and things like thatbefore you even decide on a
position?
Terri Lynn (20:27):
I think it's a really great question to ask.
You'd probably freak out therecruiting team, because that'd
be like, well, no one's everasked me that.
Why are you asking them?
I there's tools such asGlassdoor where we can find
reputation about companies.
(20:48):
And I would tell you, I thinkit's a wonderful way to have
some understanding.
I believe that the careerwebsite of a lot of companies
will give you a good insight asto who the company is.
Is the company telling you thatthey're about diversity and
inclusion?
And then I can ask questionsabout that is the company, a
(21:11):
company that really wants me tobring my best self?
And therefore, my question wouldbe about what does that look
like?
And if so, what are you going toallow me to be?
And that's where the conflictdiscussion would be, because
comp to me is not only my basesalary, but it's all the perks
and benefits that I might get.
(21:31):
And then I'd also want to, thisgoes back to my personal brand,
and again, this comes fromworking for W brands.
Anyone who's familiar with Wbrands, it's pretty hip.
It always was a very hip kind ofa hotel.
There's a certain look that theybelieve the people who work
(21:53):
there have.
And I basically was always ablack suit and a purple shirt,
but we would be hiring peoplecalled, do you have the W look?
And I remember the generalmanager who hired me said, the
one thing about you is peopledon't think you have the W look
and I'm like, I'm a middle-agedwoman.
I don't know what that is.
And she's like, you're notnecessarily hip.
(22:14):
And I'm like, I got a suit on, Igot stockings on.
Well, drop the stockings.
All right, I can do that.
So, the question was, could Ifit?
And the answer was the core ofme could fit at W, the suit
maybe didn't work.
Right?
Definitely, one thing I alwayswear is really cool flashy
earrings.
That's a result of W now, right?
(22:35):
My little trendiness now is Iwear flashy earrings with my
still stuffy suits, where suitsaren't even popular.
So, finding out if I'm going tofit in that organization, I
think is more important than howam I going to be evaluated and
how are we going to becompensated?
Because if I can bring my wholeself to work, the money is going
to probably follow.
(22:56):
Right?
Amanda (22:57):
Yeah.
It sounds like culture is kindof the number one thing that you
want to be looking for wheneveryou're searching for a new
position?
Terri Lynn (23:06):
Without a doubt, I would say culture is the most
important thing.
And I always tell people, if youcan go sit in the lobby, maybe
not right now, but go sit in thelobby and see how people look
when they're leaving work forthe day.
Go, you know, again, if you're,if you're going to be working in
a restaurant, go see what theexperience is like in a
(23:27):
restaurant.
If you're going to be working ina property management, go do a
shop, go see what it's like toactually be a customer.
There's so many ways that we canexperience the customer
experience.
The employee experience shouldbe as good, if not better than
the customer experience becausethose of us on the inside are
(23:49):
actually the ones that make thecustomer experience come to
life.
Amanda (23:53):
And so, if people are more concerned with the clients
and not their employees, it'sjust, it's, it feels almost
backwards.
Yeah.
So, if somebody came to you,Terri Lynn, and they asked you,
you know, I'm feelingundervalued at my position, I
don't think that I can make atransition.
(24:15):
How can I go about improvingthis position that I'm in
currently?
What would you say to them?
Terri Lynn (24:23):
It's a good question.
I think the first question iswhy do you feel undervalued, and
understanding what it is that'smissing for them?
Is it truly something in thework environment?
Are they not challenged by thejob?
Sadly, we are often held back byour own leaders because really
good performers.
(24:44):
If I'm not comfortable knowingthat someday you're going to go
and I'm not comfortable growingyou.
I don't want to lose the one whomakes my life better.
I'm sure we've all experiencedthat.
So, I think the real question iswhy are you valued?
Or why do you feel undervalued?
And once we understand that,then we can talk about, is it
(25:04):
something that you need growthpotential within the
organization?
And can we find out ways thatyou can get that?
Can you raise your hand forprojects?
Or can you offer up someknowledge or insight?
If you don't believe that it'sthe right fit for you in an
organization, it might be timefor us to have you go shop.
I always tell people it'sabsolutely fine to go look on
(25:27):
the market.
Your resume should always beready.
And the reason I say that issometimes you get the call from
a recruiter or you actually getlucky and somebody calls you and
says, come in and interview.
And you actually go, and youcheat on your employer.
I'll use that word and you go,Hey, it's pretty good where I
am.
It reaffirms that you're in agood spot.
(25:49):
Statistics actually tell youthat by employee engagement,
most employees feel unhappyafter the first year.
And then there's a giant dip inengagement around the seventh
year.
And that actually mirrorsmarried life.
I was going to say like thehoneymoon phases, it's exactly
(26:11):
the same.
And that's what engagementstatistics tell us because when
you get married, right?
The first year is either reallyrough or it's wonderful.
And then it becomes horrible.
And then at seven years, all ofa sudden you realize that your
significant other throws theirsocks on the floor all the time
and expects you to pick them upand doesn't unload the
dishwasher.
Works exactly the same at sevenyears.
(26:32):
No, one's paying attention toyou.
You're a star performer.
You're steady, you're countedon, but no one is telling you
that they love you anymoreconsistently.
Amanda (26:43):
That's interesting.
I never thought about that aslike mirroring a marriage and
relationships, but that's aninteresting new perspective.
So, I wanted to ask, I know thatwe talked a little bit about
Upwardly Global and you hadmentioned that you help
immigrants.
(27:03):
Can you tell me a little bitmore about what it is that you
do for them, and how you helpimmigrants who are underemployed
or underpaid?
Terri Lynn (27:13):
Absolutely.
I think you picked that up fromone of my LinkedIn posts.
So, one of my passions, as Imentioned, is to really work
with non-profits that kind offit who I am, right?
In terms of what I really wantto do to help people.
And Upwardly Global was foundedin 2000, it's a national
organization, that's mission isto eliminate employment
(27:36):
barriers, barriers in skilledimmigrants, and refugees.
The reason, here's my story, andwhy it touches me.
I'm second-generation American.
My family all came here fromItaly.
And so, when I really thinkabout my roots and the
privileges that I've beenafforded through my family, it's
(27:57):
because they worked really hard,and they kind of paved the
ground for me, right?
To be able to go to college andto have this incredible career.
And hopefully, my children aredoing the same.
So, the work with UpwardlyGlobal and why I love sharing a
little bit more about it.
It's one of those hiddenresources also for employers,
(28:19):
we're often looking for reallytalented people.
The folks at Upwardly Globalalready have their visas, their
work authorized, you are gettingincredible talent from around
the world that is ready to go.
And what they don't have is thenetwork in the United States to
(28:40):
find work.
They don't have the connections.
And so, what I do with UpwardlyGlobal, been on the leadership
council for a number of years.
But primarily right now I do alot of work with counseling or
coaching, job applicants, right?
How to build their network,opening the doors through my
LinkedIn, and actually if youvisit my LinkedIn, you'll see
(29:01):
that I'm spotlighting some ofthe folks that I'm working with
w ho a re amazingly talentedright now that just don't have a
connection of folks.
The other thing about workingwith people who are kind of new
to the US, and want to buildtheir network, it's the same
advice for any job seeker.
(29:21):
You come here and you often takea job that is below your skill
set.
They call them survival jobs,meaning they're probably
working, unfortunately inquick-service restaurants.
I spent 18 years inquick-service restaurants and
Krispy Kreme.
And I'm, I don't think that wasa survival job for me.
(29:43):
It was an amazing experiencethat really shaped my career.
So, the language right there,yes, it might be the job you're
doing right now, but what canyou do in that job to show your
worth?
Or can you grow within that?
The second thing that I alwaystell folks that I'm working with
through Upwardly Global is buildyour network.
And one of the ways you can dothat is you can also go to
(30:05):
Toastmasters.
Toastmasters is a wonderfulorganization that helps us with
our ability to speak and not beshy.
And it's a great way to connectand meet people.
Conduct info interviews askpeople from your network, or
just like Amanda did.
You reached out and said, Hey, Igot an introduction from you
(30:27):
from Kurt Kuyper, who was onyour show a while ago and said,
I'd like to talk to you, ask forinformation interviews.
And then, of course, the mainthing is you get one job.
That first job is the job thatyou're going to leverage for the
future.
So, if I'm currently working,and I'll use quotes, the
survival job, if I really,really want to be a winemaker,
(30:49):
that's my dream job in theUnited States, I should probably
go find the survival job in thewine industry, right?
So, I can work my way up, andthen I can prove my worth and
many good employers recognizegreat people.
Amanda (31:08):
I love that.
So, I never thought about it asactually going and proving your
worth.
I've heard people say thatbefore, but some people are
like, I can't do that.
Or I don't want to do that.
Like, I feel like that's beneathme.
What, how do you coach peopleout of like that mindset, of
that I can't do that?
(31:29):
Or I can't work in the fast-foodindustry or any of those types
of situations.
I feel like they're, they couldbe stepping stones to bigger and
better things, but I hear a lotof times that they don't want to
be in those types of positions.
Terri Lynn (31:51):
Oh, that's, that's kind of a loaded question for me
because I think that comes backdown to your values.
No, it's okay.
I always, I actually pridemyself on what I call the
immigrant value, and theimmigrant value to me is many of
us come to work here.
My grandparents are greatexample.
Many of the folks that I knoware the frontline employees that
(32:12):
I have worked within my career.
And they're so proud of the jobthat they're able to do, whether
it's in housekeeping or as thebest drive-through cashier or a
maintenance worker, right?
And those jobs are probably lessthan what they were doing in
their home countries.
And so, again, I, as somebodywho has the privilege of working
(32:34):
and growing up in the UnitedStates, it's my bias.
That's making me think that jobis less than me.
One of the things I often hearis, well, I have a college
education.
I shouldn't be working at, youknow, work in the drive-through.
And the way I turned that aroundis if you don't think you should
work there, then please don'twork there.
Because I will tell you withouta doubt, and I throw this
(32:56):
challenge out there.
I still think I'm the best darnsandwich wrapper and sandwich
maker at Wendy's restaurants.
And it's been 30 plus yearsbecause there's a level of pride
you need to bring to yourself.
If you are not happy, when yougo to work, you're not going to
get a raise because people aregoing to know you're miserable
(33:17):
and your outward personality isgoing to show.
And nobody wants to work with agrumpy, unhappy person who's
bringing down the entire team.
Amanda (33:27):
Absolutely.
The attitude I think is it canbe contagious in a good way, or
it can also be very toxic.
And that's something that Ithink we have to realize that if
we are unhappy, people know likeit's not a secret that we're not
happy where we're at.
Have you seen that with peoplethat approach you in HR?
Terri Lynn (33:50):
Absolutely.
You know, and we talked aboutlike, I've never thought about
work, like being like a, amarriage or a relationship, it's
absolutely.
So, this is how I define justthe whole recruitment and
retention process.
From a employment brandingstandpoint, recruitment is the
attracting, right?
It's when we're looking allskinny and I'm working out every
(34:12):
day and I'm doing my bestbecause I want my resume looked
at now, or I want you to dateme, right?
And then I want to engage withthe person, right?
I'm bringing you flowers all thetime and I'm getting ready to
make that permanent commitment.
And as an employer, right?
I should be taking care of you,I want to make sure you have
your benefits, that's what Ioffer.
Or if I don't offer benefits, Iwant to make sure you have
(34:32):
flexible schedule, whatever itis, it's going both ways.
So, this is a healthyrelationship.
The minute you stop bringing meflowers, I'm given a choice,
right?
In a personal relationship, I'meither like, yo, give me some
flowers or I'm going to go findsomeone else who's going to give
me flowers, right?
And then the last part of thisattract, engage relationship has
(34:53):
cementing.
Same thing in being, having theopportunity to have a long term
relationship, whether yourdomestic partners or you're
married, right?
Every day I come home and I'mlike to my husband, Hey, how are
you?
I love you, right?
I'm reaffirming that I'm happyto be with you.
And by the way, thanks forpicking up those socks you left
on the floor.
(35:13):
It's the same thing at work,right?
I want to reaffirm myrelationship every day with my
employer.
And I want them to see that I'mhappy to be there.
So, when somebody comes to meand it's like, I'm not happy.
I'm like, do you even want to behere?
I'm that honest as an HR leader,because if you don't want to be
married anymore, then why bemarried to us, right?
(35:36):
Now, it's obviously verydifferent on a personal
relationship, but in the workenvironment, maybe not today,
but I can guarantee you in 18months, it will be an employee
market again.
We were in a drought, and it wasreally hard to find the
employees that we were alllooking for.
But in 18 months, employers aregoing to be fighting for the
(35:59):
talent they want.
And I'm always going to find thetalent that comes with a great
reputation and is happy to bethere regardless of the job.
One of the reasons I tell peoplenot to be miserable at work, it
doesn't matter when I, when youleave and go look for a job.
(36:21):
The new employer is going tocall maybe the HR team and the
HR team is never going to say,Oh, Amanda was miserable at
work.
But a lot of us get referredfrom our network.
And if the people you haveworked with only remember you as
being really unhappy and notwilling to contribute, they're
(36:43):
not going to recommend you forthe next job.
So, think about it this way, thepeople that you are working
around, that's your futurereferral basis as well.
And so, I want people to knowthat I am so thrilled to be at
work and I'm pleasant, that theywould want to refer me to the
next job as well.
That's my employment brandagain, it's my personal brand.
Amanda (37:05):
Yeah.
I love that.
And I love that you kind ofbrought it back around to the
personal brand because I feellike that's huge for people.
And I have so many morequestions, but we have to close.
This has been so good.
Terri Lynn, tell our listenershow they can connect with you
and, and find out more if theywant to about Stone Soup.
Terri Lynn (37:25):
Well, first of all, Amanda, once again, thank you so
much.
Just the opportunity to shareinsights and, you know, offer
advice.
If it is such a thing thatpeople are finding and that it
is inspiring to folks, I just amhonored and privileged that you
have asked me to be here.
So, you can find Stone SoupPerformance Consulting on the
(37:48):
web.
It's Stone Soup PerformanceConsulting.com.
My LinkedIn is T L Cardona,you'll find me, I love it when
people ping me and reach out.
You will find that in mywebsite, and who my story is,
(38:09):
and why I love to work withorganizations.
It's really, for me, it's aboutbuilding your culture on the
inside.
And sometimes that's just aboutmaking sure that what we are
going to promise to employees weactually can deliver.
So, that's number one.
And then for any executive thatreally wants to talk further and
deeper about how they can takeadvantage and connect in the
(38:32):
community with organizationssuch as Upwardly Global, or
really want to work on their ownteam and their own thinking,
reach out the tabid dialogue.
It's always a privilege, and anhonor to me to be able to help
other organizations.
I started my own businessbecause I actually retired, but
I love the topic of being ableto be a great organization where
(38:57):
all people can belong and beincluded.
And then most importantly, thatI, as an employer can be a place
where everybody wants to be.
And I'm an employer of choicebecause it's the right thing to
do, and not because I have to doit.
So, I'm the girl who you want tohave a conversation with.
Amanda (39:15):
Absolutely, and this has been one of those conversations
for sure.
I feel like you brought so muchinsight and, and great advice.
It was, it was advice.
You said you didn't know ifthat's what it was, but it was.
So, I just want to say thank youagain for being on the show.
This has been an awesome,awesome episode.
And I think people are going toget a lot out of this one.
(39:35):
So, thank you.
Terri Lynn (39:37):
Thank you so much, Amanda.
Amanda (39:39):
Yeah, all right.
You guys, we will talk to yousoon.
Bye
Outtro (39:47):
Thanks for listening to the Raise Up Podcast.
If you want a raise, head towww.RaiseUpPodcast.com and
download our step by steproadmap where we've taken all
the expert advice we'vecollected, and put it into a
simple PDF ebook called, youguessed it, how to ask for a
raise.
Before you join us again, makesure to subscribe, share it with
(40:08):
your friends.
You can click the share button,take a screenshot, and share it
on your social stories and tag,@AmandaLeFever.
We'll see you again soon.
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