May 20, 2020 • 39 mins
Today you meet my longtime friend Gary Fly, Chief Marketing Officer at the Brooks Group. He dives right at the heart of How to Get A Raise: “more than anything else, creating alignment with your team and an understanding with your supervisor, then becoming very proficient at your craft - all while having a good attitude - will earn you a raise. You start to rise up. People recognize skill and desire.” WOW! Gary also covers How to uncover your company’s compensation philosophy and how NOT to ask for a raise during the Pandemic.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gary (00:01):
My hunch is because I've seen it, that when employees
approach the subject withoutemotion, and with real intent to
learn.
When they ask a question oftheir supervisor, what does
success look like in my job?
Or, what's important for me todo in this job for you to be
pleased with the work I'm doing.
It starts to give you clues asto what's important.
Amanda (00:30):
Ladies and gentlemen welcome to another episode of
your favorite podcast in thewhole wide world where we talk
about how to ask for and get apay raise at your job.
I'm your hostess.
Amanda LeFever.
Thanks for being here.
Thanks for showing up week afterweek to mine all this juicy
wisdom.
I'm stoked about today's guest,you guys, his name is Gary Fly,
(00:51):
and he's Chief Marketing Officerat the Brooks Group, where he's
responsible for the salesperformance research center.
Gary received a systemsengineering degree from Georgia
Tech, his MBA from VanderbiltUniversity, and a degree in
restaurant management fromWaffle House University.
I can't wait to hear more aboutthat, Gary.
Gary was the VP of Operationsfor Waffle House with 2000 plus
(01:16):
associates and built aspecialized consulting practice
working with companies between$15-$50 million in revenue.
Gary, thank you so much forcoming on the show.
I'm really excited to have youhere.
Gary (01:30):
Well, Amanda, I'm excited to be here.
I look forward to ourconversation and happy to answer
any questions you might have andhope to bring some value to your
listeners.
Amanda (01:39):
Excellent.
So my very first question isthat I saw you were a barbecue
judge, and North Carolina isknown for our incredible
barbecue.
So I'm really jealous.
I need you to tell me a littlebit, was this a whole day of
judging barbecue?
How did this work?
Gary (01:54):
Yes, I was at my niece's wedding and reception, and I was
talking to a fellow, and I said,Hey, what do you do?
He goes, Oh, I'm retired, so I'ma full-time barbecue judge.
And as soon as he said that, I'mlike, what?
There's such a thing?
And so I reached out to theKansas City Barbecue Society,
which is the largest governingbody of barbecue contests, I
(02:16):
think in the world.
And they had an all-day trainingin Lexington, conveniently
enough.
So, they had competition teamsand my son, and I went down and
spent the day, and so we wentthrough the certification
process.
So, that was only one day, youknow, the continuing ED never
stops.
So, every opportunity I have, Iventure out to a barbecue
(02:39):
restaurant.
But yeah, something I hope to domore of as my work-life balance
changes.
Amanda (02:45):
Yes.
That's really interesting.
I did not know that there wassuch a thing.
Are there specific criteria thatyou're looking for when you're
judging a barbecue?
Gary (02:53):
Yeah.
We have a scoring system.
All very intentional, noconversation at the tables while
you're judging.
No looking at other scorecards.
Yeah, it's serious business.
Amanda (03:08):
They can't sell you like, has just a little bit of
spice on this one.
None of that?
Oh, my goodness.
Okay.
So, I got off on a totaltangent.
I'm sorry.
And we don't have much timetogether, but I really want to
focus on kind of two professionstoday.
So salespeople and retail foodworkers.
So it seems that you areuniquely qualified to talk about
(03:33):
both of these things, in myopinion.
So can you set the stage for us?
Tell us a little bit about yourtime at Waffle House.
Kind of in a nutshell, what isyour best advice for someone who
would ask you, what should I dothis week to get a raise?
Gary (03:49):
Yeah.
So I was on the operation side,so I spent my entire career in
restaurants.
So I would, I wouldn't go to anoffice, I would physically go to
restaurants.
And really it was all around,ensuring the quality on the
floor, whether it's the trainingof the associates or the quality
of the food we were putting outand whatnot.
(04:09):
And really, we had a basicsystem that worked pretty well.
But the idea for the restaurantoperator who was our manager,
our store manager, we reallytrain them heavily on being in
the mix, being out with thecustomers, understanding the
customer experience, andmanaging that, and if they could
(04:31):
ensure that the customerexperience was good from the
time they walked drove onto theparking lot to the time they
left, that the building lookedright, that the people were
pleasant and looked nice intheir uniforms, that they
received good service and goodfood, that that really was the
key for them to pay attention toif they could do that.
(04:51):
And then kind of the rest of thethings took care of themselves.
Right?
So, I don't know if thataddresses it necessarily, but we
worked very hard to ensure thatthe managers and every
associate, the waitress, thecook, the host, all those people
were really intentional aboutthe customer experience and
ensuring that they had a goodtime.
(05:13):
So that we could build sales andeverything tied back to that,
so, as a waitress, the way yougot it, you would increase
sales, were taking good care ofthe customers.
I remember one of my most vividmemories, was we had our busiest
day of the year actually atWaffle House, was Christmas day.
Amanda (05:30):
Oh my gosh, no way.
I didn't expect you to say that.
Gary (05:36):
Three to four times as busy.
And for many years we were theonly game in town.
But I had one in particular.
We call them sales people, mostpeople would call them
waitresses.
I had one waitress, Lisa, andshe would, and this was in 1989;
this has stuck with me.
So this was in 1989 that I sawher do this.
So, Christmas day, 1989, shecomes to work with a box of
(05:59):
Christmas cards, and they arealready signed love from Lisa.
And she would see a regularcustomer get out of the car and
she'd write dear Amanda, rightin it.
And hand it to you when you satdown, and they would say, Oh
Lisa, this is so nice.
But it was that kind of veryintentional thinking around how
(06:20):
do I connect with people on ahuman level, show them a good
time, make sure that they havean experience that's really
beneficial.
And they would make severalhundred dollars on Christmas day
if not thousands of dollars.
It was amazing.
But it was those kinds oftouches that really mattered.
So, that was one example.
Does that help?
Amanda (06:40):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
So that's kind of buildingrelationships and ensuring that
the customer experience isexceptional.
That is your road to gettingmore money, is to help the
organization do well, as well.
And I love that special touch ofthe cards because that's
(07:03):
creating that relationship withthose customers so that they
will come back.
They'll come back, not just onChristmas, right?
We know Lisa, Lisa gave us aChristmas card.
I want to sit in Lisa's sectiontoo, is another thing that
probably was very helpful.
That's amazing.
So what about the managers?
(07:23):
How would they move up, or howdid you guys promote, kind of
within?
Gary (07:29):
And all promotion was done from within.
So, we had a couple of keymetrics that we would look at,
but all of them were reallybased around this idea of great
customer experience that willbuild the business.
So, we would look at year overyear sales increases, our year
over year sales, and we'd lookat the basic profitability of
the restaurant.
But the real driver was runningsales increases.
(07:52):
So, if you had same store sales,or traffic increases, then we
knew you were taking care of thecustomer.
Essentially, it's kind of thebottom line of that.
And so, again, we had very goodtraining on the fundamentals.
But we had these guidingprinciples, and one of them is
what we called the ten steps ofservice, which was, Hey, make
(08:14):
sure this is going on inside ofyour restaurant.
Make sure your people aretrained in these very basic
things.
And I don't know the last timeyou've been in a Waffle House,
but hopefully, when you walkedin, they said hello or good
morning, or greeted you.
That was the first step ofcustomer service, which was a
friendly greeting with a smile,and it was that eye to eye,
(08:36):
human contact.
So, what we really strive to dowas to have the manager actively
engaged in the customerexperience, which meant they
were on the floor in the middleof the action, not in some
backroom, not paying attentionto work, all that kind of stuff.
But we knew when we were goingto be busy, and it was expected
(08:58):
that the management team was onthe floor in the restaurants on
those busy times, which meant weworked a lot of nights, we
worked a lot of third shifts.
I worked third shift on newyear's Eve for 21 years.
Right?
And I worked first shift onChristmas day for 21 years, and
first shift on Thanksgiving dayfor 21 years.
And it was that kind ofimmersion in the business during
(09:19):
the times that were critical.
That was the mindset.
Amanda (09:23):
So, what did employees do that kind of would stand out
to you?
How would they end up inmanagement positions?
And then was there anotheravenue for them other than just
running a store?
Is there district management,how did that work at the Waffle
House?
Gary (09:41):
Yeah.
So, yes, there is anotheravenue.
They would do things like whatLisa did, right?
They would do things like, wow,that was really inventive and
really creative, and it wasculturally appropriate as well.
So, they understood thecompany's culture and the
mission that we were trying todrive to.
(10:01):
But they understood how to bereally good at their craft.
So, we had a lot ofprofessionals, whether they were
the grill operators, the cooksor the waitresses or salespeople
as we call them, but those thatstrove to be excellent in their
craft just stood out that theytook it seriously.
(10:22):
And so I'll go back to Lisa.
She was very well rounded as awaitress.
She understood that but she alsowas a great cook, and she taught
herself, or she aligned herselfwith different grill operators
to learn how they did what theydid.
And so she made it her missionto educate herself on all
(10:45):
aspects of the business.
And then she became a shiftleader, and she became a
certified trainer for us, andthen became a part of the
management team.
So, we had a single storesupervisor, which we called a
unit manager, and then we haddistrict managers that oversaw
three stores, and then divisionmanagers that oversaw nine
(11:06):
stores, and then regionalmanagers that oversaw 27, which
is how it was done.
And, really it was all aboutwho's building, who's building
great customer service at t hestore level and then who's
building out a great team at themulti-store level, so that
region manager to ensure theyhave a good customer experience
(11:28):
at an individual store.
They need to have a goodmanagement team, and they need
to have good district managers,and they need to have good
division managers.
So as they progressed up thehierarchy, those soft skills and
leading and managing peoplebecame much more critical
because you were building out ateam that led hundreds of
employees.
Amanda (11:47):
So, would they go to the Waffle House University?
Is that where they would learnthose soft skills and the
leadership training?
Gary (12:00):
That's where all that stuff was introduced.
So, it was both tacticaltraining and an introduction to
basic leadership principles.
And then we also did a nice jobof having ongoing education.
They did a fair amount ofassessment type of work, where
(12:23):
people would learn more aboutthemselves, their strengths, and
their weaknesses.
There was regular training thatwent on at all different levels.
So, there was a very intentionalprotocol around the training and
whatnot.
And again, it's those peoplethat not only went through the
motion, but actually embracedit, understood it, and were
(12:45):
culturally aligned as well astechnically proficient.
They did well, and then earnedthe opportunity to earn more
money and position themselvesfor opportunities, promotions,
and raises.
Amanda (12:56):
So, I love that you said you always hired from within,
and always promoted from within.
That's amazing.
So, I was reading an article theother day in Restaurant Today,
and they said that in retail orfood service, raises tend to
happen every six months or so,but they tend to be tiny
(13:19):
increases like 20 cents an hour.
So in your opinion, as asalesperson, is there kind of a
strategy around smaller, morefrequent raises instead of just
like big jumps every year?
Gary (13:34):
Yeah.
Especially in the restaurantbusiness and at the Waffle
House, it's nickels and dimesthat really make the difference,
right?
I mean, they're controllingcosts, so tightly because
there's just not great profitmargins on any of that.
And so, what may seem like asmaller raise to a lot of folks,
(13:54):
is you start to multiply it overmany people, and it starts to
have a pretty significant impacton the restaurant.
So, my sense is that those aremore palatable to the restaurant
owner, to the restaurantmanagement team, or whatnot.
That Hey, yeah, I can justify 20cents now, 20 cents later,
(14:17):
because I'm probably also inthose time-frames also adjusting
menu prices as well.
So, most restaurants, likeWaffle House, they would adjust
menus a couple of times a year,and it was, they always lagged
inflation, but that allowed themto possibly tie that with
(14:38):
raises, because you startgetting that out of balance and
then it's not profitable, andyou can't give anybody a raise.
Amanda (14:44):
Right.
That makes sense.
Gary (14:47):
So, those sorts of raises, my belief always was that the
raises were nice to have, but itwas those personal touches that
allowed the tips and sales to goup, is where people made their
real money.
It w a s r eally that kind ofthing.
(15:08):
So Lisa, knowing that she was going t o m ake several hundred
dollars, she invested$8,$10, or$12 in a pack of Christmas cards
that probably paid her$300 to$500, or she thought about that.
It's those sorts of things.
It's making sure that thecustomer experience is good.
Making sure that the food looksgood when you bring it to the
(15:28):
table, making sure that yo u check on th em, making sure that
they're comfortable, all thatkind of stuff.
That's where I think most peoplecan materially adjust th eir i
ncome.
Amanda (15:42):
Okay.
That makes sense.
So, let's pivot a little bit tosalespeople.
Is your advice about getting araise at a restaurant franchise?
Any difference for a salesperson?
Gary (15:56):
Yeah, so, I think there are some common things that have
to be in place.
One is I really do believe youhave to be proficient at your
craft.
Whatever is it, right?
You have to be good, you have tobe bringing value, and it has to
be in some sort of a tangibleway.
(16:16):
Whether it's, I'm bringing inmore customers, or my customers
want to sit with me and eat withme.
But, then I also believe youhave to be, again, I'll u se
this term again, culturallyaligned with the enterprise,
whatever it is you're workingwith, right?
If your values and the wayyou're conducting yourself
aren't in alignment with whatthe c ompany i s trying to do,
(16:39):
then I think it's going to behard to do t hat.
So, you have to understand theculture o f the company values,
how does the company think aboutraises, right?
How do they think aboutcompensation in general, and
what's important to them?
I think when you start to putall that together, it paints a
picture for you, a nd anindividual in a particular
(17:00):
situation to say, okay, Iunderstand this is what it means
to my company to be good a t myjob.
I need to be proficient on this,and I need to be able to do
this, I need to be able to showthis value.
Whatever that looks like.
When you start to get alignmentbetween your skillset, and your
understanding of what thecompany thinks is important,
then I think y ou have earnedthe right to either ask for a
(17:23):
raise or to be given apromotion.
Does that make sense?
Amanda (17:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
The one question that I did haveis how do you feel you can learn
more or learn quickly what thecompany values and how they
think about raises?
Because I love that you saidthat, how the company thinks
about raises.
So I keep getting stuck back onthat, how do you learn more
about that?
Gary (17:49):
Yeah, so you mentioned in the bio that I'd had a
consulting business, right?
And I would oftentimes work withsmaller, or a lot of times,
family-owned businesses thatwere in the$15-$50 million a
year sales range.
And one of the biggestfrustrations for owners was
around compensation.
They would always say, well, nowAmanda's asking for a raise, or
(18:12):
now Gary's asking for a raise.
So one of the things I wouldtalk about would be do you have
any sort of compensationphilosophy, or do you even have
a plan?
And they'd be like, well, whatare you talking about?
I said, well, you have to havesome way in your own mind that
you justify raises, and youjustify compensation.
How do you do that?
And so I think for employeesit's fair for them to ask the
(18:35):
question, how are raises earnedand what's important?
What does a win look like in myjob?
Right?
What does it look like for me tobe successful in my job?
And, my hunch is, because I'veseen it, that when employees
approach the subject withoutemotion, and with real intent to
learn.
When they ask a question oftheir supervisor, what does
(18:58):
success look like in my job?
Or, what's important for me todo in this job for you to be
pleased with the work I'm doing?
It starts to give you clues asto what's important.
It starts to dial you into;well, Amanda, what we really
need is, if you could turn yourtables in 22 minutes, that would
(19:19):
be great.
That's important.
That's an important metricprocess because that allows our
throughput to increase.
Or, if you could increase yournumber of repeat customers by X,
then that's important to us.
Or if you could sell X dollars amonth, or a day, or a week, or a
year.
(19:39):
Just having that conversation ina nonthreatening way that's
really designed to gatherinformation.
I think it is a good first step,because most people won't do
that.
Most employees get all worked upabout it, and they want to
justify their raise, and they'llbring in, well, I've done this,
and I've done this, and I'vedone this, and I've done this.
And the boss might say, well,yeah, but none of that really
(20:01):
mattered.
So instead of coming after thefact, just having a human to
human conversation around, Hey,you know, I want to do a good
job, and I want to understandwhat's important to the company,
and what's important to you asmy supervisor.
Can you tell me what successlooks like?
Can you tell me how you valuethings?
(20:22):
Can you tell me, does thecompany have a compensation
philosophy?
How do they give raises?
What are the things that areimportant?
Is it just time and service, oris it some performance metric,
or is it some combination ofboth?
Amanda (20:33):
Yeah.
Because I think that wherepeople get hung up, at least for
me, it was, I've been here thislong, and I know that I'm doing
a better job than her, and she'smaking more money.
Right?
I came at it very emotionally.
You had said, don't approachthis with emotion.
I really liked that, and Iwished that I would've known
(20:56):
that in the past, might've mademe more money.
Gary (21:03):
You are sitting across from your supervisor who may be
completely blindsided.
Amanda (21:07):
Yeah.
And they're asking, what ishappening?
Oh, right.
So now you're defensive, andthey're defensive, and it just
is not good.
Gary (21:21):
So again, I have found that if people ask with
sincerity, and people know.
I mean, your supervisors arepeople too.
And they understand when you'recoming to them sincerely, and
when you're honestly trying todo a good job.
Understand the situation so thatyou don't blindside them.
I don't want to come to you in ayear, and blindside you with a
(21:45):
raise, request for more money,or a promotion if it's not
appropriate.
But I'd love to understand howthat process works.
And you may, as an employee,learn that there is no process,
right?
Which is a little bit harder,but at least you know how the
table is set.
Amanda (22:02):
That's true.
And then, if it's not somewherethat you want to stay, you have
the option to look somewhereelse.
Okay.
I like that.
When you work with these owners,and the small business, do they
usually introduce compensationplans?
(22:23):
Will they, are they open to thatidea?
Gary (22:28):
They're very open typically to the idea of
creating sort of a compphilosophy that they can then
articulate they may saysomething like, Hey, what we
value in this business is repeatcustomers, customer loyalty, and
great customer service.
So, those are the things we'regoing to pay on, and here's how
we measure that sort of thing.
(22:50):
Generally speaking, we give acost of living raise every year,
and then we have performancebonuses that are paid quarterly
based on X, Y, and Z.
It can be very simple because,again, what you're trying to do
is, you're trying to demystifyit for both sides really.
You're trying to make sure agood owner or a good supervisor
(23:12):
wants their employees tounderstand how to get paid, how
to get promoted, how to makemore money, and all that.
And they don't want to beblindsided necessarily.
And so again, one example thatcomes to mind is that the owners
had no real cohesion aroundtheir thinking.
And so, I mean it would be twicea month, different employees
(23:36):
would come to them and say, Hey,can I get a raise?
So 24 times a year, they have todeal with this, and it made them
crazy.
Well, have you ever told themthat you only give raises in
December?
Or have you told him that theway to get raises is to do this?
And they say, no, I didn't know.
Amanda (23:53):
Well, what the expectations are, right?
Gary (23:59):
Well, you can't blame them.
So, let's put a little structurearound it.
And again, it doesn't have to be1,000 pages deep of detail.
It can be very general.
Here's what we value, here's howwe do it, here's how we think
about compensation.
I was on a board, and ourcompensation philosophy was that
(24:21):
we were going to pay in terms ofsalary, we were going to pay 95%
of the market average, but wewere going to have additional
benefits.
So, the total comp would be alittle bit better than the
market average, but we weregoing to pay for it with some
different benefits.
It was just a philosophicalthing that this organization
(24:43):
wanted, and it was easy toexplain to the employees.
So, then you could say, this ishow we pay, and the salary is
going to be 95% of what youmight find in the market.
But you get these other benefitsthat we think are important.
And one of the benefits was theactual work environment, the
(25:06):
kind of employees, and thingsthey were taking care of, but it
was very well regulated.
But then the employees knew, andthey could make a decision back
to your comment earlier, theycould say, well, I'm not willing
to work for 95% of the marketaverage.
I want to work for a hundredpercent of it, and they could go
and go somewhere.
But when it just relieved thatshort of an angst intention
(25:26):
around the unknowing of how do Iget paid, why is my pay this
way?
Amanda (25:31):
So did you have people that would come up to you and
ask, Gary, what can I do?
Yes?
Okay, what were some of the bestquestions, or approaches, or
things that people asked you?
Gary (25:47):
So, I actually have an exhibit from one of my, and I
know that the viewers of thepodcast can't see it.
But in one scenario, I had aperson who was a very visual
person.
Say, hey, I want to understandwhat's important and how do I
(26:09):
get a raise?
And we talk, and they left, andthey came back with kind of a
career map, which is what Ishowed you.
It's them going up the summit ofa mountain.
Amanda (26:18):
The summit to success.
Gary (26:23):
The summit to success, and here are the milestones or
landing spots.
So, what that told me was thatshe had really thought about
what we talked about, and reallystarted to vet kind of herself
around, all right, well where doI need help and what do I need
to do?
So each of those little stepsthat you saw on the visual was,
I need to spend adequate timedoing this.
(26:45):
I need to attend leadershiptraining here.
I need to do these types ofthings.
So to me, that was a verythoughtful kind of rational
approach.
And, even if it didn't align100% with what I felt was
important, it gave us a greatplace to talk or starting place.
And we could talk about it, wecould assign timelines to it, we
(27:06):
could put resources behind it,meaning help pay for some of
these courses, and then we couldassign benefits to her.
Which the ultimate thing was shewanted to run a department.
And so, let me go do this andlet me train on this.
And so I thought that was areally unique and thoughtful
approach to it.
Amanda (27:25):
Yeah, I love that.
The whole the mountain with thedifferent points going all the
way up of the different thingsthat she could do, that's really
awesome.
So typically, I ask people toshare one of their favorite
raise stories, and I'm sure thatworking in the restaurant
industry, and with all of thesesmall businesses, and the owners
(27:46):
that you might have a reallygood raise story, Gary.
Gary (27:52):
Yeah.
So I've got all sorts ofstories.
I will tell you one that's notnecessarily a raise story, but
real quickly because it has todo with cash.
I learned early on that, everytime I'd walk into one of my
restaurants, there would besomebody say, Gary, can I borrow
some money?
(28:12):
I need to do X, Y, and Z.
And so, being a kindhearted guy,I typically would do that.
And then I'd go home, and mywife would ask, why don't you
have any money?
So, I had to change my tactic.
So I eventually went, heyAmanda, I'd like to, but I made
a deal with Bank of America,they said they're not going to
make any waffles, and I'm notgoing to give out any loans.
(28:34):
And, by the time the personrealized what I'd said, I'd be
down the road.
I'll tell you, and I actuallywant to tell you, conversely, a
story that's happened recentlythat was not a good way to ask
for a raise.
Amanda (28:49):
Excellent.
We love those stories.
Gary (28:52):
So, we're in a really interesting time right now in
businesses, I think really arein a conundrum.
They don't know necessarily whatthe future holds.
A lot of businesses have takenadvantage of the paycheck
protection act.
But there's so much uncertaintyaround that, and they just don't
know.
And so I think that people thatpush too hard right now,
(29:15):
employees come across astone-deaf, right?
They don't really show anappreciation for the uniqueness
of the situation.
So, I had a person come recentlyand essentially said, Hey, I'm
the sole breadwinner, and I needto make more money.
(29:38):
Our world has been rockeddramatically, and everybody I
know has.
What does this really mean tous, and what can we do?
That really came across astone-deaf to me, and it's all
about me.
And while I appreciate thesituation the person's in, it's
(30:02):
not really a reason to justify araise.
I think that, unfortunately,it's not something that we can
pay off.
So, I think that that's hard, Ithink that right now you have to
be very sensitive to what'sgoing on in the world.
And it's even more important tobe aligned with the company, and
(30:23):
their values, and what they seeas important.
And really, the idea is to setyourself up.
It's kind of a longer play now,I think.
But to set yourself up as anessential worker.
If a company a sks you to takeon more responsibility, I think
the a nswer i s yes, and youkind of figure it out.
And it's those acts of goodwillthat will, I think, pay huge
dividends when the dust settles,and we kind of get back to
(30:46):
whatever the next normal lookslike.
I know that wasn't exactly whatyou asked.
Amanda (30:50):
No, that's fantastic.
Actually, I was watching aconference the other day, and
they were saying that now is thetime to be a yes/and person.
Yes, I will do that.
And what if we did this?
How can I do this?
How can I help here?
So this is really a good time toshow your loyalty, to step up,
(31:11):
and show that you're a teamplayer.
To put all these pebbles in thewater instead of making a huge
wave that you need more moneyright now.
Everybody is hurting right now,and we're all in this together.
So I liked that about, yes/and,I can help.
Gary (31:33):
I just think that that's absolutely critical.
Again, we've heard a lot aboutthe term essential worker, but I
think every company you have theopportunity to make yourself an
essential worker.
And I know as a supervisor, as amanager of people, I'm so
appreciative of that.
Because these are tough times,that people are under different
(31:55):
sorts of stresses that they'veever been under, they're
managing kids at home, work fromhome, spouses at home, and they
can't go, all that stuff.
So those people that are yes,really stand out and position
themselves, I think for anaccelerated trajectory has the
(32:17):
fog lands or the fog goes away.
Amanda (32:20):
Yeah.
For sure.
So is there anything else thatyou want to add to our national
conversation about how to get araise?
How to ask for a raise, reallyhow to position for raises at
this point in time?
Gary (32:33):
Yeah, I'll go back to I used to work for a fellow who
said it's easier to ride thehorse in the direction it's
headed, which meant, don't tryto fight things.
And so that's why I go to, Hey,just talk, have real
conversations about things thatyou're thinking about with your
(32:55):
supervisor because they want tobe successful and they realize
that their success is dependenton their ability to move a team
forward and for the team to besuccessful.
So if you can create alignment,and vision, and understanding
with your supervisor, then youcan become very proficient at
your craft, and you do it with agood attitude, I think that is
what will position you betterthan anything else for future
(33:18):
promotions, future raises, andthe opportunity to ask for both.
Actually, I think that when youdo that well, you don't end up
having to ask, so intentionally.
I think you start to rise up.
People recognize, they'll belike, Oh my gosh, I love working
with Amanda because she'sdiligent, she gets it done,
(33:38):
she's pleasant, she'sinsightful, and it's that whole
bundle of stuff.
I know I can trust her, and Iknow that the work will be
thorough.
It's that bundle of completenessthat I think really is important
at any time.
But now I think it's criticallyimportant.
Amanda (33:58):
And they'll start bringing you along.
Right?
Come on, come with us.
Gary (34:05):
Yeah.
Because you see it, right?
Yeah.
That enthusiasm and thatwillingness.
You think, Oh well, Amanda wouldbe great at this, or if I could
expose her to this, who knowswhere her brain will go, and
what kind of cool stuff she'llcome up with.
I really do believe that thevast majority of leaders,
(34:26):
especially good leaders, that'sthe way they think.
Amanda (34:28):
Yeah.
That's what they're looking for.
They want those people, the highpotential people.
Yeah.
They're always searching.
Gary (34:38):
And it's the little things that to set you up part.
Right.
To make you that high potentialperson.
Yes/And attitude.
It's that willingness to kind ofjust grin and bear it at times,
and work through it, but do itwith a good attitude, do it
without an agenda, and do itwithout self-centered emotion
(34:59):
type stuff.
What's in it for me, what am Igoing to gain today?
What's that sort of mindset?
Amanda (35:07):
Yeah.
And kind of that approach too.
So we're going to start wrappingup.
This has been so good, Gary.
You have to tell me, thoughwhat's going on with the Brooks
Group.
We didn't even talk about that.
What are you guys up to in thetraining market that's going to
really make an impact in thenext few years?
Gary (35:24):
It's going to be huge.
Amanda (35:25):
Oh, exciting.
Gary (35:28):
We are fortunate.
We have a great bench ofcurriculum designers.
All of them were master-levelcurriculum designers that have
real expertise in adult learningtheory.
And this pandemic has reallycaused some rapid prototyping,
which I think is going to havebig benefits.
(35:53):
But we've always had virtualprograms, but what we've really
kind of perfected over the lastseveral weeks and months is this
small kind of chunk learningthat's delivered virtually.
So, our traditional programs aredelivered over two or three
days, and they're kind oftraditional classrooms all day
(36:15):
kind of stuff.
People can't do that right now.
And you can't sit through thatvirtually.
So what we have is a programthat we're delivering a little
bit every week for 12 to 14weeks and then heavy coaching
through it.
So, here's the learningobjective, and then the practice
that we're doing between theclasses is really, really cool.
(36:38):
And it allows salespeople to goout and actually practice the
skill that we taught on, earlierin the week and bring it back
in.
And we do a lot of peer to peerkind of coaching and stuff.
So I think it's really going tobe groundbreaking, at least the
sales coaching and salestraining world.
Amanda (36:58):
Yeah, for sure.
Because it's more hands-onexperience instead of just going
and sitting and taking all thisinformation in and then, now
what?
So you have that, that continuedlearning every week.
That's awesome.
I'm excited for you guys.
Gary (37:17):
Yeah, we're excited as well.
You know, it's good to reinventand to pivot.
COVID-19 has forced our hand insome ways, and it's been really
good, we're just fortunate tohave this great team of
professionals that can pull ittogether quickly and deliver
really, really strong contentand learning tools.
Amanda (37:37):
That's awesome.
I'll make sure that I link theBrooks Group in the show notes
as well so people can easilyfind it.
And then where can peopleconnect with you, Gary?
If they want to say hello or,hey, I used to work with you at
Waffle House back in the day.
Gary (37:54):
I'm easy to find on LinkedIn, so there's not a lot
of Gary Fly's out there.
But, I'm on LinkedIn and happyto connect there.
And then if they want to send anemail right to me, my email is
just GFly@thebrooksgroup.com.
So, it's easy to find me, happyto chat, and really appreciate
you asking me to come and be apart of this.
(38:16):
I'm excited.
I know you're excited to havethe podcast and it's all neat
stuff happening.
Amanda (38:23):
Yeah, I think a lot of people are really enjoying the
message and the things thatpeople are saying.
And I have no doubt that thiswill be a super popular episode
because I mean, you're justawesome, Gary.
I mean, your name's Gary Fly.
It's hard not to be cool.
Gary (38:40):
Maybe you can talk to my kids.
They don't recognize it.
Amanda (38:41):
They don't think you're so cool?
That's funny.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on the show.
And, thank you guys so much forlistening today.
Wherever you are, I have a veryspecial request.
If you haven't already, go aheadand subscribe to the podcast,
and I'd love it if you'd rateand review the podcast.
(39:02):
A five-star rating would befantastic, but I'll talk to you
guys soon.
Bye.
My hunch is because I've seen it, that when employees
approach the subject withoutemotion, and with real intent to
learn.
When they ask a question oftheir supervisor, what does
success look like in my job?
Or, what's important for me todo in this job for you to be
pleased with the work I'm doing.
It starts to give you clues asto what's important.
Amanda (00:30):
Ladies and gentlemen welcome to another episode of
your favorite podcast in thewhole wide world where we talk
about how to ask for and get apay raise at your job.
I'm your hostess.
Amanda LeFever.
Thanks for being here.
Thanks for showing up week afterweek to mine all this juicy
wisdom.
I'm stoked about today's guest,you guys, his name is Gary Fly,
(00:51):
and he's Chief Marketing Officerat the Brooks Group, where he's
responsible for the salesperformance research center.
Gary received a systemsengineering degree from Georgia
Tech, his MBA from VanderbiltUniversity, and a degree in
restaurant management fromWaffle House University.
I can't wait to hear more aboutthat, Gary.
Gary was the VP of Operationsfor Waffle House with 2000 plus
(01:16):
associates and built aspecialized consulting practice
working with companies between$15-$50 million in revenue.
Gary, thank you so much forcoming on the show.
I'm really excited to have youhere.
Gary (01:30):
Well, Amanda, I'm excited to be here.
I look forward to ourconversation and happy to answer
any questions you might have andhope to bring some value to your
listeners.
Amanda (01:39):
Excellent.
So my very first question isthat I saw you were a barbecue
judge, and North Carolina isknown for our incredible
barbecue.
So I'm really jealous.
I need you to tell me a littlebit, was this a whole day of
judging barbecue?
How did this work?
Gary (01:54):
Yes, I was at my niece's wedding and reception, and I was
talking to a fellow, and I said,Hey, what do you do?
He goes, Oh, I'm retired, so I'ma full-time barbecue judge.
And as soon as he said that, I'mlike, what?
There's such a thing?
And so I reached out to theKansas City Barbecue Society,
which is the largest governingbody of barbecue contests, I
(02:16):
think in the world.
And they had an all-day trainingin Lexington, conveniently
enough.
So, they had competition teamsand my son, and I went down and
spent the day, and so we wentthrough the certification
process.
So, that was only one day, youknow, the continuing ED never
stops.
So, every opportunity I have, Iventure out to a barbecue
(02:39):
restaurant.
But yeah, something I hope to domore of as my work-life balance
changes.
Amanda (02:45):
Yes.
That's really interesting.
I did not know that there wassuch a thing.
Are there specific criteria thatyou're looking for when you're
judging a barbecue?
Gary (02:53):
Yeah.
We have a scoring system.
All very intentional, noconversation at the tables while
you're judging.
No looking at other scorecards.
Yeah, it's serious business.
Amanda (03:08):
They can't sell you like, has just a little bit of
spice on this one.
None of that?
Oh, my goodness.
Okay.
So, I got off on a totaltangent.
I'm sorry.
And we don't have much timetogether, but I really want to
focus on kind of two professionstoday.
So salespeople and retail foodworkers.
So it seems that you areuniquely qualified to talk about
(03:33):
both of these things, in myopinion.
So can you set the stage for us?
Tell us a little bit about yourtime at Waffle House.
Kind of in a nutshell, what isyour best advice for someone who
would ask you, what should I dothis week to get a raise?
Gary (03:49):
Yeah.
So I was on the operation side,so I spent my entire career in
restaurants.
So I would, I wouldn't go to anoffice, I would physically go to
restaurants.
And really it was all around,ensuring the quality on the
floor, whether it's the trainingof the associates or the quality
of the food we were putting outand whatnot.
(04:09):
And really, we had a basicsystem that worked pretty well.
But the idea for the restaurantoperator who was our manager,
our store manager, we reallytrain them heavily on being in
the mix, being out with thecustomers, understanding the
customer experience, andmanaging that, and if they could
(04:31):
ensure that the customerexperience was good from the
time they walked drove onto theparking lot to the time they
left, that the building lookedright, that the people were
pleasant and looked nice intheir uniforms, that they
received good service and goodfood, that that really was the
key for them to pay attention toif they could do that.
(04:51):
And then kind of the rest of thethings took care of themselves.
Right?
So, I don't know if thataddresses it necessarily, but we
worked very hard to ensure thatthe managers and every
associate, the waitress, thecook, the host, all those people
were really intentional aboutthe customer experience and
ensuring that they had a goodtime.
(05:13):
So that we could build sales andeverything tied back to that,
so, as a waitress, the way yougot it, you would increase
sales, were taking good care ofthe customers.
I remember one of my most vividmemories, was we had our busiest
day of the year actually atWaffle House, was Christmas day.
Amanda (05:30):
Oh my gosh, no way.
I didn't expect you to say that.
Gary (05:36):
Three to four times as busy.
And for many years we were theonly game in town.
But I had one in particular.
We call them sales people, mostpeople would call them
waitresses.
I had one waitress, Lisa, andshe would, and this was in 1989;
this has stuck with me.
So this was in 1989 that I sawher do this.
So, Christmas day, 1989, shecomes to work with a box of
(05:59):
Christmas cards, and they arealready signed love from Lisa.
And she would see a regularcustomer get out of the car and
she'd write dear Amanda, rightin it.
And hand it to you when you satdown, and they would say, Oh
Lisa, this is so nice.
But it was that kind of veryintentional thinking around how
(06:20):
do I connect with people on ahuman level, show them a good
time, make sure that they havean experience that's really
beneficial.
And they would make severalhundred dollars on Christmas day
if not thousands of dollars.
It was amazing.
But it was those kinds oftouches that really mattered.
So, that was one example.
Does that help?
Amanda (06:40):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
So that's kind of buildingrelationships and ensuring that
the customer experience isexceptional.
That is your road to gettingmore money, is to help the
organization do well, as well.
And I love that special touch ofthe cards because that's
(07:03):
creating that relationship withthose customers so that they
will come back.
They'll come back, not just onChristmas, right?
We know Lisa, Lisa gave us aChristmas card.
I want to sit in Lisa's sectiontoo, is another thing that
probably was very helpful.
That's amazing.
So what about the managers?
(07:23):
How would they move up, or howdid you guys promote, kind of
within?
Gary (07:29):
And all promotion was done from within.
So, we had a couple of keymetrics that we would look at,
but all of them were reallybased around this idea of great
customer experience that willbuild the business.
So, we would look at year overyear sales increases, our year
over year sales, and we'd lookat the basic profitability of
the restaurant.
But the real driver was runningsales increases.
(07:52):
So, if you had same store sales,or traffic increases, then we
knew you were taking care of thecustomer.
Essentially, it's kind of thebottom line of that.
And so, again, we had very goodtraining on the fundamentals.
But we had these guidingprinciples, and one of them is
what we called the ten steps ofservice, which was, Hey, make
(08:14):
sure this is going on inside ofyour restaurant.
Make sure your people aretrained in these very basic
things.
And I don't know the last timeyou've been in a Waffle House,
but hopefully, when you walkedin, they said hello or good
morning, or greeted you.
That was the first step ofcustomer service, which was a
friendly greeting with a smile,and it was that eye to eye,
(08:36):
human contact.
So, what we really strive to dowas to have the manager actively
engaged in the customerexperience, which meant they
were on the floor in the middleof the action, not in some
backroom, not paying attentionto work, all that kind of stuff.
But we knew when we were goingto be busy, and it was expected
(08:58):
that the management team was onthe floor in the restaurants on
those busy times, which meant weworked a lot of nights, we
worked a lot of third shifts.
I worked third shift on newyear's Eve for 21 years.
Right?
And I worked first shift onChristmas day for 21 years, and
first shift on Thanksgiving dayfor 21 years.
And it was that kind ofimmersion in the business during
(09:19):
the times that were critical.
That was the mindset.
Amanda (09:23):
So, what did employees do that kind of would stand out
to you?
How would they end up inmanagement positions?
And then was there anotheravenue for them other than just
running a store?
Is there district management,how did that work at the Waffle
House?
Gary (09:41):
Yeah.
So, yes, there is anotheravenue.
They would do things like whatLisa did, right?
They would do things like, wow,that was really inventive and
really creative, and it wasculturally appropriate as well.
So, they understood thecompany's culture and the
mission that we were trying todrive to.
(10:01):
But they understood how to bereally good at their craft.
So, we had a lot ofprofessionals, whether they were
the grill operators, the cooksor the waitresses or salespeople
as we call them, but those thatstrove to be excellent in their
craft just stood out that theytook it seriously.
(10:22):
And so I'll go back to Lisa.
She was very well rounded as awaitress.
She understood that but she alsowas a great cook, and she taught
herself, or she aligned herselfwith different grill operators
to learn how they did what theydid.
And so she made it her missionto educate herself on all
(10:45):
aspects of the business.
And then she became a shiftleader, and she became a
certified trainer for us, andthen became a part of the
management team.
So, we had a single storesupervisor, which we called a
unit manager, and then we haddistrict managers that oversaw
three stores, and then divisionmanagers that oversaw nine
(11:06):
stores, and then regionalmanagers that oversaw 27, which
is how it was done.
And, really it was all aboutwho's building, who's building
great customer service at t hestore level and then who's
building out a great team at themulti-store level, so that
region manager to ensure theyhave a good customer experience
(11:28):
at an individual store.
They need to have a goodmanagement team, and they need
to have good district managers,and they need to have good
division managers.
So as they progressed up thehierarchy, those soft skills and
leading and managing peoplebecame much more critical
because you were building out ateam that led hundreds of
employees.
Amanda (11:47):
So, would they go to the Waffle House University?
Is that where they would learnthose soft skills and the
leadership training?
Gary (12:00):
That's where all that stuff was introduced.
So, it was both tacticaltraining and an introduction to
basic leadership principles.
And then we also did a nice jobof having ongoing education.
They did a fair amount ofassessment type of work, where
(12:23):
people would learn more aboutthemselves, their strengths, and
their weaknesses.
There was regular training thatwent on at all different levels.
So, there was a very intentionalprotocol around the training and
whatnot.
And again, it's those peoplethat not only went through the
motion, but actually embracedit, understood it, and were
(12:45):
culturally aligned as well astechnically proficient.
They did well, and then earnedthe opportunity to earn more
money and position themselvesfor opportunities, promotions,
and raises.
Amanda (12:56):
So, I love that you said you always hired from within,
and always promoted from within.
That's amazing.
So, I was reading an article theother day in Restaurant Today,
and they said that in retail orfood service, raises tend to
happen every six months or so,but they tend to be tiny
(13:19):
increases like 20 cents an hour.
So in your opinion, as asalesperson, is there kind of a
strategy around smaller, morefrequent raises instead of just
like big jumps every year?
Gary (13:34):
Yeah.
Especially in the restaurantbusiness and at the Waffle
House, it's nickels and dimesthat really make the difference,
right?
I mean, they're controllingcosts, so tightly because
there's just not great profitmargins on any of that.
And so, what may seem like asmaller raise to a lot of folks,
(13:54):
is you start to multiply it overmany people, and it starts to
have a pretty significant impacton the restaurant.
So, my sense is that those aremore palatable to the restaurant
owner, to the restaurantmanagement team, or whatnot.
That Hey, yeah, I can justify 20cents now, 20 cents later,
(14:17):
because I'm probably also inthose time-frames also adjusting
menu prices as well.
So, most restaurants, likeWaffle House, they would adjust
menus a couple of times a year,and it was, they always lagged
inflation, but that allowed themto possibly tie that with
(14:38):
raises, because you startgetting that out of balance and
then it's not profitable, andyou can't give anybody a raise.
Amanda (14:44):
Right.
That makes sense.
Gary (14:47):
So, those sorts of raises, my belief always was that the
raises were nice to have, but itwas those personal touches that
allowed the tips and sales to goup, is where people made their
real money.
It w a s r eally that kind ofthing.
(15:08):
So Lisa, knowing that she was going t o m ake several hundred
dollars, she invested$8,$10, or$12 in a pack of Christmas cards
that probably paid her$300 to$500, or she thought about that.
It's those sorts of things.
It's making sure that thecustomer experience is good.
Making sure that the food looksgood when you bring it to the
(15:28):
table, making sure that yo u check on th em, making sure that
they're comfortable, all thatkind of stuff.
That's where I think most peoplecan materially adjust th eir i
ncome.
Amanda (15:42):
Okay.
That makes sense.
So, let's pivot a little bit tosalespeople.
Is your advice about getting araise at a restaurant franchise?
Any difference for a salesperson?
Gary (15:56):
Yeah, so, I think there are some common things that have
to be in place.
One is I really do believe youhave to be proficient at your
craft.
Whatever is it, right?
You have to be good, you have tobe bringing value, and it has to
be in some sort of a tangibleway.
(16:16):
Whether it's, I'm bringing inmore customers, or my customers
want to sit with me and eat withme.
But, then I also believe youhave to be, again, I'll u se
this term again, culturallyaligned with the enterprise,
whatever it is you're workingwith, right?
If your values and the wayyou're conducting yourself
aren't in alignment with whatthe c ompany i s trying to do,
(16:39):
then I think it's going to behard to do t hat.
So, you have to understand theculture o f the company values,
how does the company think aboutraises, right?
How do they think aboutcompensation in general, and
what's important to them?
I think when you start to putall that together, it paints a
picture for you, a nd anindividual in a particular
(17:00):
situation to say, okay, Iunderstand this is what it means
to my company to be good a t myjob.
I need to be proficient on this,and I need to be able to do
this, I need to be able to showthis value.
Whatever that looks like.
When you start to get alignmentbetween your skillset, and your
understanding of what thecompany thinks is important,
then I think y ou have earnedthe right to either ask for a
(17:23):
raise or to be given apromotion.
Does that make sense?
Amanda (17:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
The one question that I did haveis how do you feel you can learn
more or learn quickly what thecompany values and how they
think about raises?
Because I love that you saidthat, how the company thinks
about raises.
So I keep getting stuck back onthat, how do you learn more
about that?
Gary (17:49):
Yeah, so you mentioned in the bio that I'd had a
consulting business, right?
And I would oftentimes work withsmaller, or a lot of times,
family-owned businesses thatwere in the$15-$50 million a
year sales range.
And one of the biggestfrustrations for owners was
around compensation.
They would always say, well, nowAmanda's asking for a raise, or
(18:12):
now Gary's asking for a raise.
So one of the things I wouldtalk about would be do you have
any sort of compensationphilosophy, or do you even have
a plan?
And they'd be like, well, whatare you talking about?
I said, well, you have to havesome way in your own mind that
you justify raises, and youjustify compensation.
How do you do that?
And so I think for employeesit's fair for them to ask the
(18:35):
question, how are raises earnedand what's important?
What does a win look like in myjob?
Right?
What does it look like for me tobe successful in my job?
And, my hunch is, because I'veseen it, that when employees
approach the subject withoutemotion, and with real intent to
learn.
When they ask a question oftheir supervisor, what does
(18:58):
success look like in my job?
Or, what's important for me todo in this job for you to be
pleased with the work I'm doing?
It starts to give you clues asto what's important.
It starts to dial you into;well, Amanda, what we really
need is, if you could turn yourtables in 22 minutes, that would
(19:19):
be great.
That's important.
That's an important metricprocess because that allows our
throughput to increase.
Or, if you could increase yournumber of repeat customers by X,
then that's important to us.
Or if you could sell X dollars amonth, or a day, or a week, or a
year.
(19:39):
Just having that conversation ina nonthreatening way that's
really designed to gatherinformation.
I think it is a good first step,because most people won't do
that.
Most employees get all worked upabout it, and they want to
justify their raise, and they'llbring in, well, I've done this,
and I've done this, and I'vedone this, and I've done this.
And the boss might say, well,yeah, but none of that really
(20:01):
mattered.
So instead of coming after thefact, just having a human to
human conversation around, Hey,you know, I want to do a good
job, and I want to understandwhat's important to the company,
and what's important to you asmy supervisor.
Can you tell me what successlooks like?
Can you tell me how you valuethings?
(20:22):
Can you tell me, does thecompany have a compensation
philosophy?
How do they give raises?
What are the things that areimportant?
Is it just time and service, oris it some performance metric,
or is it some combination ofboth?
Amanda (20:33):
Yeah.
Because I think that wherepeople get hung up, at least for
me, it was, I've been here thislong, and I know that I'm doing
a better job than her, and she'smaking more money.
Right?
I came at it very emotionally.
You had said, don't approachthis with emotion.
I really liked that, and Iwished that I would've known
(20:56):
that in the past, might've mademe more money.
Gary (21:03):
You are sitting across from your supervisor who may be
completely blindsided.
Amanda (21:07):
Yeah.
And they're asking, what ishappening?
Oh, right.
So now you're defensive, andthey're defensive, and it just
is not good.
Gary (21:21):
So again, I have found that if people ask with
sincerity, and people know.
I mean, your supervisors arepeople too.
And they understand when you'recoming to them sincerely, and
when you're honestly trying todo a good job.
Understand the situation so thatyou don't blindside them.
I don't want to come to you in ayear, and blindside you with a
(21:45):
raise, request for more money,or a promotion if it's not
appropriate.
But I'd love to understand howthat process works.
And you may, as an employee,learn that there is no process,
right?
Which is a little bit harder,but at least you know how the
table is set.
Amanda (22:02):
That's true.
And then, if it's not somewherethat you want to stay, you have
the option to look somewhereelse.
Okay.
I like that.
When you work with these owners,and the small business, do they
usually introduce compensationplans?
(22:23):
Will they, are they open to thatidea?
Gary (22:28):
They're very open typically to the idea of
creating sort of a compphilosophy that they can then
articulate they may saysomething like, Hey, what we
value in this business is repeatcustomers, customer loyalty, and
great customer service.
So, those are the things we'regoing to pay on, and here's how
we measure that sort of thing.
(22:50):
Generally speaking, we give acost of living raise every year,
and then we have performancebonuses that are paid quarterly
based on X, Y, and Z.
It can be very simple because,again, what you're trying to do
is, you're trying to demystifyit for both sides really.
You're trying to make sure agood owner or a good supervisor
(23:12):
wants their employees tounderstand how to get paid, how
to get promoted, how to makemore money, and all that.
And they don't want to beblindsided necessarily.
And so again, one example thatcomes to mind is that the owners
had no real cohesion aroundtheir thinking.
And so, I mean it would be twicea month, different employees
(23:36):
would come to them and say, Hey,can I get a raise?
So 24 times a year, they have todeal with this, and it made them
crazy.
Well, have you ever told themthat you only give raises in
December?
Or have you told him that theway to get raises is to do this?
And they say, no, I didn't know.
Amanda (23:53):
Well, what the expectations are, right?
Gary (23:59):
Well, you can't blame them.
So, let's put a little structurearound it.
And again, it doesn't have to be1,000 pages deep of detail.
It can be very general.
Here's what we value, here's howwe do it, here's how we think
about compensation.
I was on a board, and ourcompensation philosophy was that
(24:21):
we were going to pay in terms ofsalary, we were going to pay 95%
of the market average, but wewere going to have additional
benefits.
So, the total comp would be alittle bit better than the
market average, but we weregoing to pay for it with some
different benefits.
It was just a philosophicalthing that this organization
(24:43):
wanted, and it was easy toexplain to the employees.
So, then you could say, this ishow we pay, and the salary is
going to be 95% of what youmight find in the market.
But you get these other benefitsthat we think are important.
And one of the benefits was theactual work environment, the
(25:06):
kind of employees, and thingsthey were taking care of, but it
was very well regulated.
But then the employees knew, andthey could make a decision back
to your comment earlier, theycould say, well, I'm not willing
to work for 95% of the marketaverage.
I want to work for a hundredpercent of it, and they could go
and go somewhere.
But when it just relieved thatshort of an angst intention
(25:26):
around the unknowing of how do Iget paid, why is my pay this
way?
Amanda (25:31):
So did you have people that would come up to you and
ask, Gary, what can I do?
Yes?
Okay, what were some of the bestquestions, or approaches, or
things that people asked you?
Gary (25:47):
So, I actually have an exhibit from one of my, and I
know that the viewers of thepodcast can't see it.
But in one scenario, I had aperson who was a very visual
person.
Say, hey, I want to understandwhat's important and how do I
(26:09):
get a raise?
And we talk, and they left, andthey came back with kind of a
career map, which is what Ishowed you.
It's them going up the summit ofa mountain.
Amanda (26:18):
The summit to success.
Gary (26:23):
The summit to success, and here are the milestones or
landing spots.
So, what that told me was thatshe had really thought about
what we talked about, and reallystarted to vet kind of herself
around, all right, well where doI need help and what do I need
to do?
So each of those little stepsthat you saw on the visual was,
I need to spend adequate timedoing this.
(26:45):
I need to attend leadershiptraining here.
I need to do these types ofthings.
So to me, that was a verythoughtful kind of rational
approach.
And, even if it didn't align100% with what I felt was
important, it gave us a greatplace to talk or starting place.
And we could talk about it, wecould assign timelines to it, we
(27:06):
could put resources behind it,meaning help pay for some of
these courses, and then we couldassign benefits to her.
Which the ultimate thing was shewanted to run a department.
And so, let me go do this andlet me train on this.
And so I thought that was areally unique and thoughtful
approach to it.
Amanda (27:25):
Yeah, I love that.
The whole the mountain with thedifferent points going all the
way up of the different thingsthat she could do, that's really
awesome.
So typically, I ask people toshare one of their favorite
raise stories, and I'm sure thatworking in the restaurant
industry, and with all of thesesmall businesses, and the owners
(27:46):
that you might have a reallygood raise story, Gary.
Gary (27:52):
Yeah.
So I've got all sorts ofstories.
I will tell you one that's notnecessarily a raise story, but
real quickly because it has todo with cash.
I learned early on that, everytime I'd walk into one of my
restaurants, there would besomebody say, Gary, can I borrow
some money?
(28:12):
I need to do X, Y, and Z.
And so, being a kindhearted guy,I typically would do that.
And then I'd go home, and mywife would ask, why don't you
have any money?
So, I had to change my tactic.
So I eventually went, heyAmanda, I'd like to, but I made
a deal with Bank of America,they said they're not going to
make any waffles, and I'm notgoing to give out any loans.
(28:34):
And, by the time the personrealized what I'd said, I'd be
down the road.
I'll tell you, and I actuallywant to tell you, conversely, a
story that's happened recentlythat was not a good way to ask
for a raise.
Amanda (28:49):
Excellent.
We love those stories.
Gary (28:52):
So, we're in a really interesting time right now in
businesses, I think really arein a conundrum.
They don't know necessarily whatthe future holds.
A lot of businesses have takenadvantage of the paycheck
protection act.
But there's so much uncertaintyaround that, and they just don't
know.
And so I think that people thatpush too hard right now,
(29:15):
employees come across astone-deaf, right?
They don't really show anappreciation for the uniqueness
of the situation.
So, I had a person come recentlyand essentially said, Hey, I'm
the sole breadwinner, and I needto make more money.
(29:38):
Our world has been rockeddramatically, and everybody I
know has.
What does this really mean tous, and what can we do?
That really came across astone-deaf to me, and it's all
about me.
And while I appreciate thesituation the person's in, it's
(30:02):
not really a reason to justify araise.
I think that, unfortunately,it's not something that we can
pay off.
So, I think that that's hard, Ithink that right now you have to
be very sensitive to what'sgoing on in the world.
And it's even more important tobe aligned with the company, and
(30:23):
their values, and what they seeas important.
And really, the idea is to setyourself up.
It's kind of a longer play now,I think.
But to set yourself up as anessential worker.
If a company a sks you to takeon more responsibility, I think
the a nswer i s yes, and youkind of figure it out.
And it's those acts of goodwillthat will, I think, pay huge
dividends when the dust settles,and we kind of get back to
(30:46):
whatever the next normal lookslike.
I know that wasn't exactly whatyou asked.
Amanda (30:50):
No, that's fantastic.
Actually, I was watching aconference the other day, and
they were saying that now is thetime to be a yes/and person.
Yes, I will do that.
And what if we did this?
How can I do this?
How can I help here?
So this is really a good time toshow your loyalty, to step up,
(31:11):
and show that you're a teamplayer.
To put all these pebbles in thewater instead of making a huge
wave that you need more moneyright now.
Everybody is hurting right now,and we're all in this together.
So I liked that about, yes/and,I can help.
Gary (31:33):
I just think that that's absolutely critical.
Again, we've heard a lot aboutthe term essential worker, but I
think every company you have theopportunity to make yourself an
essential worker.
And I know as a supervisor, as amanager of people, I'm so
appreciative of that.
Because these are tough times,that people are under different
(31:55):
sorts of stresses that they'veever been under, they're
managing kids at home, work fromhome, spouses at home, and they
can't go, all that stuff.
So those people that are yes,really stand out and position
themselves, I think for anaccelerated trajectory has the
(32:17):
fog lands or the fog goes away.
Amanda (32:20):
Yeah.
For sure.
So is there anything else thatyou want to add to our national
conversation about how to get araise?
How to ask for a raise, reallyhow to position for raises at
this point in time?
Gary (32:33):
Yeah, I'll go back to I used to work for a fellow who
said it's easier to ride thehorse in the direction it's
headed, which meant, don't tryto fight things.
And so that's why I go to, Hey,just talk, have real
conversations about things thatyou're thinking about with your
(32:55):
supervisor because they want tobe successful and they realize
that their success is dependenton their ability to move a team
forward and for the team to besuccessful.
So if you can create alignment,and vision, and understanding
with your supervisor, then youcan become very proficient at
your craft, and you do it with agood attitude, I think that is
what will position you betterthan anything else for future
(33:18):
promotions, future raises, andthe opportunity to ask for both.
Actually, I think that when youdo that well, you don't end up
having to ask, so intentionally.
I think you start to rise up.
People recognize, they'll belike, Oh my gosh, I love working
with Amanda because she'sdiligent, she gets it done,
(33:38):
she's pleasant, she'sinsightful, and it's that whole
bundle of stuff.
I know I can trust her, and Iknow that the work will be
thorough.
It's that bundle of completenessthat I think really is important
at any time.
But now I think it's criticallyimportant.
Amanda (33:58):
And they'll start bringing you along.
Right?
Come on, come with us.
Gary (34:05):
Yeah.
Because you see it, right?
Yeah.
That enthusiasm and thatwillingness.
You think, Oh well, Amanda wouldbe great at this, or if I could
expose her to this, who knowswhere her brain will go, and
what kind of cool stuff she'llcome up with.
I really do believe that thevast majority of leaders,
(34:26):
especially good leaders, that'sthe way they think.
Amanda (34:28):
Yeah.
That's what they're looking for.
They want those people, the highpotential people.
Yeah.
They're always searching.
Gary (34:38):
And it's the little things that to set you up part.
Right.
To make you that high potentialperson.
Yes/And attitude.
It's that willingness to kind ofjust grin and bear it at times,
and work through it, but do itwith a good attitude, do it
without an agenda, and do itwithout self-centered emotion
(34:59):
type stuff.
What's in it for me, what am Igoing to gain today?
What's that sort of mindset?
Amanda (35:07):
Yeah.
And kind of that approach too.
So we're going to start wrappingup.
This has been so good, Gary.
You have to tell me, thoughwhat's going on with the Brooks
Group.
We didn't even talk about that.
What are you guys up to in thetraining market that's going to
really make an impact in thenext few years?
Gary (35:24):
It's going to be huge.
Amanda (35:25):
Oh, exciting.
Gary (35:28):
We are fortunate.
We have a great bench ofcurriculum designers.
All of them were master-levelcurriculum designers that have
real expertise in adult learningtheory.
And this pandemic has reallycaused some rapid prototyping,
which I think is going to havebig benefits.
(35:53):
But we've always had virtualprograms, but what we've really
kind of perfected over the lastseveral weeks and months is this
small kind of chunk learningthat's delivered virtually.
So, our traditional programs aredelivered over two or three
days, and they're kind oftraditional classrooms all day
(36:15):
kind of stuff.
People can't do that right now.
And you can't sit through thatvirtually.
So what we have is a programthat we're delivering a little
bit every week for 12 to 14weeks and then heavy coaching
through it.
So, here's the learningobjective, and then the practice
that we're doing between theclasses is really, really cool.
(36:38):
And it allows salespeople to goout and actually practice the
skill that we taught on, earlierin the week and bring it back
in.
And we do a lot of peer to peerkind of coaching and stuff.
So I think it's really going tobe groundbreaking, at least the
sales coaching and salestraining world.
Amanda (36:58):
Yeah, for sure.
Because it's more hands-onexperience instead of just going
and sitting and taking all thisinformation in and then, now
what?
So you have that, that continuedlearning every week.
That's awesome.
I'm excited for you guys.
Gary (37:17):
Yeah, we're excited as well.
You know, it's good to reinventand to pivot.
COVID-19 has forced our hand insome ways, and it's been really
good, we're just fortunate tohave this great team of
professionals that can pull ittogether quickly and deliver
really, really strong contentand learning tools.
Amanda (37:37):
That's awesome.
I'll make sure that I link theBrooks Group in the show notes
as well so people can easilyfind it.
And then where can peopleconnect with you, Gary?
If they want to say hello or,hey, I used to work with you at
Waffle House back in the day.
Gary (37:54):
I'm easy to find on LinkedIn, so there's not a lot
of Gary Fly's out there.
But, I'm on LinkedIn and happyto connect there.
And then if they want to send anemail right to me, my email is
just GFly@thebrooksgroup.com.
So, it's easy to find me, happyto chat, and really appreciate
you asking me to come and be apart of this.
(38:16):
I'm excited.
I know you're excited to havethe podcast and it's all neat
stuff happening.
Amanda (38:23):
Yeah, I think a lot of people are really enjoying the
message and the things thatpeople are saying.
And I have no doubt that thiswill be a super popular episode
because I mean, you're justawesome, Gary.
I mean, your name's Gary Fly.
It's hard not to be cool.
Gary (38:40):
Maybe you can talk to my kids.
They don't recognize it.
Amanda (38:41):
They don't think you're so cool?
That's funny.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on the show.
And, thank you guys so much forlistening today.
Wherever you are, I have a veryspecial request.
If you haven't already, go aheadand subscribe to the podcast,
and I'd love it if you'd rateand review the podcast.
(39:02):
A five-star rating would befantastic, but I'll talk to you
guys soon.
Bye.
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