April 16, 2020 • 37 mins
Principal Consultant of Consulex Corrosion Professionals, NACE International, and successful Finn racer chats with Amanda about the ups and downs of angling for a raise in rough waters. From his home in Fairhope, AL, to representing NACE International in over 140 countries, Terry brings a unique perspective and great advice to all of us here in Raise Up Nation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Terry (00:00):
You need to see the relationship and how you fit
into that company being moresuccessful.
Amanda (00:13):
What is going on?
Welcome back to your veryfavorite podcasts out today,
where I interview executivedirectors, HR managers, and
learn all the secrets and tipsfor how you can get a raise at
your job.
We are living in the mostbizarre, scary, and trying
times, and I just want you toknow I'm thinking about you.
I'm pulling for you and here foryou.
(00:34):
Our hope with this wholeendeavor is to give you some
strategies and tools, so whenthe time is right, you can get
the raise that you deserve.
And I'm super stoked tointroduce you to Mr.
Terry Greenfield.
He has nearly 40 years ofexperience in the protective
coatings and corrosion industry.
His company, c on selects,provides program and project
(00:56):
management failure analysis,expert witness, and other
services for the corrosionindustry.
And this guy is smart, he hastactical expertise in
transportation, oil and gas,military and other industries
and regularly contributes toindustry journals is the author
of teaching curricula and anumber of technical conference
(01:18):
papers.
So, not to mention he's anaccomplished leader, and this
year happens to be the presidentof NACE international.
It's a 40,000-member globalassociation of corrosion
professionals, which takes himall around the world.
So, Terry, welcome to the show.
How are you doing?
Terry (01:37):
I'm doing great.
Thanks, Amanda.
That was quite an intro.
And don't worry, I stutter oncoatings and corrosion sometimes
as well, so it doesn't roll offthe tongue very well.
Amanda (01:50):
It doesn't, and I don't know what it is.
I always have that problem.
So, how are things in Alabama?
Okay?
Terry (01:58):
Yeah, things are good.
You know, we're all dealing with, I hope not a new norm.
I hope this is going to beshort-lived, but, transferring
into Florida, you have to gothrough a checkpoint, and you
know, Fair Hope, the city I livein has started a curfew, and the
(02:19):
police aren't pulling you overif they see you driving, but
generally, everybody's trying tomaintain, that physical distance
that we believe is going to helpus.
Amanda (02:31):
Yeah, before we started recording, you had mentioned
that we're more connected now asfar as we're not social
distancing, we're just physicaldistancing.
Terry (02:41):
Yeah, I think that's a misnomer, I guess.
I think people are, if you're inany of the social media guys,
see people on it that I haven'tseen in years, and frequent, and
everybody's trying to findsomething to do, right?
So, they're reaching out tocommunicate, I think if there's
anything that's going to be goodout of this.
I've always traveled a lot.
So, I've done telecoms andonline meetings.
(03:06):
And again, when I'm nottraveling, our headquarters are
in Florida, I typically work outof my home office.
So, I'm used to this.
And what I love seeing happen,it used to be everybody tried to
create their home element tolook like they were in the
(03:26):
office.
Right?
They had their tie on, everybodyhad to be quiet.
You may hear my dogs bark in thebackground.
Okay.
That, I think, is new, peopleare relaxing maybe what they
think the expectation needs tobe, which becomes a little more
informal and I think that'sgood.
(03:47):
Hopefully, we do a lot more.
Hopefully, we see, at least forbusiness, we're not forced to
sit at home i nto it, but wetake the opportunities to spend
more time with our families andless time on an airplane.
Amanda (04:00):
Oh yeah.
I know you go all over the worldtoo, don't you?
Terry (04:03):
This is the longest stint I've been home in a long time,
and I really kind of enjoy it.
Amanda (04:10):
So, Patty probably doesn't know what to do with
herself.
Terry (04:12):
She's finally gotten used to me being around.
If you have a conversation withher, it may be a different
conversation, though.
Amanda (04:21):
So, we talked a little bit about why we're here.
So, let's just jump into ourmain topic.
Let's, talk about getting araise at your job, and if you're
ready, I have some questions.
Okay.
So, what is your best advice forsomeone who feels undervalued at
(04:45):
work?
Terry (04:47):
It's interesting, and I think the first thing they need
to do is, I mean, you feelundervalued, that's an emotional
response, right?
You have to figure out why.
You have to define why you feelundervalued.
Typically, we say, well, it'sbecause of compensation.
I mean, does more money going tomake me feel more valued?
(05:08):
Maybe, there's a lot of reasonsthat tie into that.
So, first, I think you need toreally have a clear
understanding of why you feelundervalued.
Is it money?
Is it recognition?
Is it the potential foropportunity?
So that's a very multifacetedquestion of how you would
(05:31):
respond to that.
So, that's kind of the firststage.
I think really figure out whatthat means.
Why do you feel undervalued?
Amanda (05:41):
So kind of in an awareness of what's going on
almost.
Terry (05:46):
Well, yeah.
Because you have to understandthat and figure out the plan and
how to address it.
Okay.
Everybody wants to make moremoney.
I think that's a given.
I don't think there's anybodyyou would go to, even those who
are the very top that says, areyou going to keep this number?
Are you happy with that for thenext five years?
I don't care who that is.
They're going to go, well, no, Iwant to make more money.
(06:08):
So, there's that element ofreally understanding why you
feel undervalued.
And we see that.
I did just for some disclosure,I did listen in on your podcast
with Travis, and I enjoyed someof his responses because he's
(06:28):
looking at it from differentaspects.
We started off, and I loved thefreight carrier.
We were here before you came,and we'll be here after you
leave.
And I think a real key to thathits me too, is you have to look
(06:50):
at the job you're in, I thinkone of the things as people, and
if I start getting off on atangent, just lasso me.
Amanda (06:58):
Okay, no, no, this is good.
Terry (07:00):
But if people look at things and get a job, okay, they
need to look for opportunitiesin whatever they're doing.
They get a degree.
Maybe, it's tradesmen anddifferent skills, but they need
to look for the opportunitybecause there are some places
(07:21):
where there is no opportunity.
There's an element of, this is ajob, this is a task, you put the
bolt into the hole, screw thenut on, and that's going to be
it, so, selecting that.
The first step is making surethat you make decisions and
looking for an opportunity asyou kind of move forward.
(07:43):
And then when you're looking forthe right opportunities, you
know?
I'll sidetrack a little bitwhen, I, from a young age, I
never really looked for a job.
I looked for ways to make money.
So, that's not the norm foreverything.
But even when you're looking atjobs, if it's going to be
something you know is going tobe temporary, you can do the
(08:07):
best you can do, and it's goingto be over in the summer.
You're in college, and you'redoing a summer job, the question
keeps going back to how you feelvalued.
I'm going to flip it a littlebit because the real issue here
is that value, who has to seethe value, is the company that's
hired you, be that yoursupervisor, the owner, whoever
(08:30):
that's going to be.
You have to understand thatvalue that you present has to
somehow relate to companygrowth, company revenue.
So, it's a two-way street.
I mean, that's it isn't just anelement of a person feeling
undervalued.
It's how the company has to seethe value or their supervisors
(08:52):
or whatever it may be, has tosee the value of the individual.
So, a nd I would say, make sureyou look for the right
opportunity, but then make surethat you express yourself within
how you complete your work andthat the company sees the value.
You can begin to, here's anexample.
(09:12):
Sometimes it's easier to see ifthere's, and this is speaking
from experience over the yearswith people that I've hired and
had worked with, we've seen verypromising people.
One gentleman, a lot of what wedo, is i nspection.
So, we put people throughtraining courses and then
they're off in the world bythemselves, representing the
company with a client,inspecting, coding application
(09:36):
or whatever it may be.
And w e f ind, promisingindividuals and start them at a
pretty good rate and then spenda huge investment, almost$15,000
putting them through thetraining program to get the
top-level certification.
So, it's an exciting time.
They've completed it, we've gonethrough it, and then a week
(09:58):
later they come into my officeand says, I've been thinking now
that I'm a level three, I shouldbe worth more money.
So, does that, you see the valuep rop.
Okay.
The element t here i s thecompany made a huge investment
because they saw value in theindividual, and that's kind of
(10:21):
where, he felt undervalued inthis case, but the reality was
the company saw a lot of value,made a huge investment.
But now again that two-waystreet, now it's an element of
the contract, contributing tothe company to provide a return
from that investment for thevalue.
(10:42):
So, i t's again, maybe I'mgetting off on a tangent, but
those are the things that areimportant because so much of it
is how you're perceived.
So, looking for advice to anindividual that's trying to grow
within the company, i t's y ou,you need to see the relationship
and how you fit into thatcompany being more successful,
(11:04):
and the value that you'rebringing, and the new
opportunities that you canpursue.
And kind of like the timing,right?
Like going and getting certifiedand then coming back and saying
I deserve more money.
That was poor timing.
That's a good example of how notto do it.
Amanda (11:25):
Not to do it.
Yes, don't do that after you getcertified.
Terry (11:29):
But, as it was, we had a conversation about it and tried
to almost have the sameconversation, and then the
gentleman wasn't thrilled, buthe ended up making a
contribution, and it worked outwell for him in the end.
But again, I always look at theelement of, there's a
relationship, right?
(11:49):
And, depending upon, when youwork for a company, companies
generally are there to turn aprofit, to generate revenue of
some sort, and ultimatelysuccessful.
So, seeing how a company valuesthat person, there's a lot of
things that are involved inthat.
It's when they have to want tomake, I don't want to say kind
(12:13):
of back to Travis, think he wentabove and beyond what was really
required because that was hisnature to try to do that.
And within that job, it probablydidn't do him a lot of good.
But I think it's done a lot ofgood in the opportunities that
he founded after that.
Amanda (12:29):
So, the expectation, so exceeding expectations, having
that awareness and theopportunity.
Do you feel like this kind ofchange at all in today's world
since companies are cashstrapped and some are being
bailed out, people are, I knowcompanies are doing the best
(12:49):
they can?
People are unemployed.
Like it's just, it's crazywhat's happening right now.
Terry (12:56):
It is.
And I think the good news is, ifthere is any good news, is you
find the companies that arevaluable to work for because
they value the employees.
I see organizations that aregoing above and beyond trying to
figure out ways to keep theirteams together.
Realizing everybody's going tohurt a little bit, but still
(13:18):
trying to keep their teamstogether instead of just
straight, well, we're going tofurlough everyone and keep the
money in the bank.
You know, you recognize.
I remember there was a gentlemanthat had a shipyard here in
Mississippi, and after Katrina,everything was gone in
(13:39):
Mississippi, they got hit muchharder than Louisiana.
But this gentleman puteverything he had into making
sure that all his workers weretaken care of.
He helped people relocate, andhe ended up bringing his
business back if he hadn't donethat.
He had a skilled labor set thathe valued, so he saw the value
(14:03):
in his employees because of thework they had done, and they
were part of the team.
He valued every one of them, andhe took care of them to bring
them back.
That's a company you want towork for.
Amanda (14:12):
Yeah, it is really telling to see some of the
companies right now how they'restepping up for people, and some
of the other ones that are, likeyou, said like furloughed, and
you see that relationship of howmuch they do value the employees
more or less.
Terry (14:30):
And you if you're looking to, again, back to feeling
undervalued, and trying tofigure out what that really
means, in some cases, you justmight not be the right fit.
You've heard of the thing; youhave to go sideways to go
higher.
Right?
And that's sometimes peopledon't like change either.
Typically, most people don'tlike change.
(14:51):
If you want to make more moneyand be in a position where you
feel more that you're beingvalued by the employer, the
company, you may have to gosideways, and that's tough for
some people.
You do need to go find anotheropportunity.
Amanda (15:09):
Yeah.
Usually, people are looking toadvance or go higher.
They don't want to go in alateral position in order to
make that change.
So what would you say tosomebody that you know, is
making a move laterally orsideways in the effort to go
(15:30):
higher.
Terry (15:32):
Okay.
Don't ever do things out ofspite or, people get, well I'm
not being valued, so I'm goingto go find something else.
Well, don't be in a hurry aboutthat.
Sure, make sure you are verytactical in your approach.
Even strategic is probablybetter, really look for what
(15:53):
moves is going to be the best.
And that's where they can takethe skill set you have, and you
can leverage that, and thecompany can leverage that to be
more successful.
I mean, that's where you'regoing to find the right fit,
when people think aboutinterviews, what gets forgotten
sometimes i s the person that'sbeing interviewed, it's okay for
(16:18):
you to do a little bit of aninterview as well.
It's okay to ask, sometimesasking the right questions of
the potential employer actuallypresents you i n a better
position, right?
That y ou thought thingsthrough, and you're looking at
the big picture that you'relooking for opportunity, and
you've really thought throughthe process.
You've looked at the company,and you understand the company.
(16:40):
It's okay to ask those questionsof, I'm not just answering what
they want me to present, but tothink of the questions that you
need to ask to find theopportunity t hat's going to be
the most beneficial to you.
A nd, and I'll tell you, ifsomeone doesn't appreciate that,
that's not the company you wantto work for.
Amanda (17:01):
Yeah.
Have you had anybody do that toyou before?
Put you in the hot seat.
Terry (17:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
It was impressive, though.
Let me tell you they stood outbecause of that, and it showed
that they had really thoughtbecause it was a higher-level
position.
And it requires going tosomebody that's going to take on
a pretty big responsibility, andyou're always cautious about
that, from an employerstandpoint, am I making the
(17:29):
right decision?
And then the questions theyasked, I mean, even into the
culture of the company, theywere questioning that.
It made us realize they hadreally thought about it.
This was a big consideration forthem.
And they put the time, and theeffort, because here's what an
employer wants to avoid with theexception of that person is
(17:50):
maybe putting up, with theexception of the person putting
the nut and the bolt together,building the widget.
You want people that are goingto be big thinkers, and you're g
oing t o want people that wantto understand the culture, how
they're going to grow.
(18:11):
We didn't get the question ofhow you would handle a situation
like, COVID-1919.
But that's probably a reasonablequestion to ask.
What happens if there's apandemic, and how are you going
to deal with the employees atthat point?
They may not give you a greatanswer, but you can at least get
(18:32):
a sense of the culture thatyou're going to work in because
that's important.
It really is.
The company culture that you'rechoosing is significant, w ell,
i t's probably the most, thatthe culture is what's going to
determine how that companyvalues your contribution to
them.
Right?
Amanda (18:51):
Is that usually your direct report, or do you think
that that's just overall workingwith other teammates and just
everything as a holistic view ofthe culture?
Terry (19:03):
I think it's a holistic view of the culture, but so many
things are taught.
Culture is top-down within anorganization.
If you have a good organizationthat has developed a culture of
teamwork, and creating anenvironment that people want to
be productive, and enjoy theirwork, if they find a direct
(19:24):
report a supervisor, mid-levelmanager, or even vice president
that doesn't toe that line, andcontribute to that culture, you
want to know that that's goingto be fixed.
So, that has to be the culturethat's developed.
Whatever the right word may befrom the top down, then
(19:46):
everybody contributes, right?
Once the culture is established,you get a pretty good idea that
you're going to be in anenvironment that's productive.
Most people want to go to work,and they'd be happy to win the
lottery.
If you have to go to work,you're going to want to go to
(20:09):
work, and enjoy the work you do.
Right?
You know eight hours out of yourday, five days a week at the
minimum.
Typically, you want to be ableto enjoy it.
So, again, kind of goes back tothat first element of making
sure you're valued, just to makesure you're working for the
right company.
Amanda (20:25):
So, more or less, make sure that you are a good fit.
You're asking questions even upto the interview process.
What about performance reviews?
Once they're already in theculture, they feel like they're
contributing.
What do those types ofconversations look like for you
and your employees?
Terry (20:45):
I have to be honest.
I think a lot of times, thingsbecome a process because that's
a box we're supposed to check.
Okay.
We did their annual performancereview, and you see the ones
that go, okay.
Well, how do you think you didor, there are so many different
(21:05):
ways of looking at that that Ithink it's important.
I guess the simple answer is, Ihate that kind of thing.
I hate annual performancereviews because it's more of a
formality than something thatreally has value.
I see some companies that try tolook a t things where throughout
(21:27):
the year, we're continuallysetting reasonable goals, and
you help set your own goals ofwhat you're trying to achieve.
And it kind of gives more of ameasurable, or a metric in how
you're performing.
So then at the end of the year,you can go, well, Hey, this
looks good.
You hit all these marks, and youactually accomplished more than
(21:49):
you thought you were g oing to,and then you give t hem a grade,
right?
That's the funny thing too.
What do we all want for a grade?
Amanda, I know you'd be an A+without any question.
I'm g oing to t hrow yourhusband's name back out again.
(22:16):
Travis and I ar e b othinstructors in the NACE CIP
program, and they do evaluationsat the end of the course, and
it's almost, I joke a littlebit.
You can almost be an evangelist,right?
You're showing th em s omethingnew, and you're carrying them
down the path, and they getexcited, and boy, it's a one to
five, five being the highestrating, an d m an, you can get
(22:39):
all fi ves, boom, boom, boom,boom.
What does that really mean?
It really means you were good atwhat you did, or you just really
move them.
Here's th e downside.
When you go through to do anin-house c ourse for a
manufacturer or someone wherethat entire group is used to
doing annual performanceevaluations, and things like
(23:03):
that on a one to five, what'sexpected?
What if you did everything youwere supposed to do, what would
you get?
A three, re ally i n most cases,when they look at that, it's the
expectation.
Not just saying if you did yourjob as it was written in the
thing, you would get a three.
(23:25):
Wha t ar e th e things that youreally do to make you a four,
and then the superlative effort?
The y ge t you the five, gradingsystems are to ugh.
And I guess, I don't know if Ianswered a question here, or ju
st threw up a big conversation.
Other than, companies have that,they have policies, but don't
let that be the only thing thatdrives how you show your
(23:55):
performance, how you presentyour performance for the past
year.
One of the problems that youreally have to avoid is don't
be, and I call them theminimals.
Oka y.
Not millennials, the minimals,if you just do the minimum of
(24:16):
what the expectation is, then,you have to be realistic about
the value.
The reality is, out of the onethrough a five, you're a t h
ree.
So, if you look, kind of e verybody doesn't get a
participation trophy.
It comes down to when peoplelook at who they're going to
(24:38):
promote, and they're going tolook at those that do a little
extra, like in today'senvironment.
So, I've experienced this, and Ihad som eone that was a friend
of mine.
Don't ever hire your friends.
I had some one who was a friendof mine that had lost their job,
(25:01):
and I thought I saw anopportunity for them to build
something.
And I was willing to helpsponsor that kind of venture.
And they were used to making afairly large salary in the
software world.
And it was like, well, I can'tdo that.
The opportunity is here, but wecan do X of that.
(25:26):
And unfortunately, theopportunity was never seen.
His rationale was, well, I'mmaking half of what I'm worth,
so I'm only goin g to d o halfof what I think I should do.
The companies that have keptpeople furloughed, and they're
going to look at the people thathave still perf ormed.
(25:49):
Ev en if there's a reduced wage,the people that have still
performed, they're the ones whoare goin g to s ee opportunities
come out when we get back tonormal.
Amanda (25:59):
The people that stepped up and all of those things kept
the semi-positive attitude.
I feel like it would be hardright now to be positive.
What do you think?
Terry (26:10):
I've sailed and raced sailboats and delivered
sailboats most of my life,especially when I was young.
I took about a two-year hiatusbetween my junior year of
college, and finishing, todeliver sailboats, having a good
time.
And one of my major events was Iexperienced a storm off Cape
Hatteras that there was a groupof us delivering a 50-foot
(26:34):
sailboat.
We were dismasted, and 30-footseas documented.
That's not an anecdotal.
They were actually documented.
But you're thinking, and yourealize that that was major, I
was probably 24 at that time wasa major element for me in how I
(26:56):
look at life because I wasthere.
Nothing that I could do aboutit, but survive, but here's what
I knew.
It wasn't going to last forever.
It was going to end.
So, I look at weathering storms,the key issue in weathering the
storm is knowing that it's notforever, it's going to end.
(27:17):
So, you have to do everythingyou can do during the storm, and
let that be the focus instead ofbeing depressed about it, and
worrying what's going to happen.
Deal with the immediate, do whatyou need to do.
Do everything you can.
If you've been furloughed,you've been furloughed, start
(27:37):
looking for those opportunities.
Look for where you can step outof this in a brighter light
because it's going to end, itwill end, and the sunshine will
come out again, and the seaswill go back to being somewhat
flat, and then you can figure itout, it's going to get back to
hopefully a better state.
So, use the time now if you'renot working to figure out how
(28:06):
you're going to come out better,it's going to be opportunity.
Amanda (28:09):
For sure, and I loved what you said earlier.
You said I never looked for ajob.
I always looked for ways to makemoney, and that feels very
appropriate with what we'retalking about.
Like if you have the chanceright now to look for those ways
almost.
Terry (28:28):
Yeah.
There's always something, and Ithink that creates a different
mindset too.
Cause it makes you moreself-reliant.
Okay.
Where you're not looking towhere my job is what defines me.
Amanda (28:52):
That's true.
So, typically I will ask theguests to share kind of their
best war story about getting araise, whether it's you or
someone else that you know.
Do you have any of your favoritecompensation conversations?
Terry (29:12):
I tell you, here's what I had.
I have to kind of set it up alittle bit because I think this
was really relevant becauseagain, I've always kind of
talked about the value, right?
The value that you bring as anemployee has to translate into
value for the company.
And we were doing work for aclient and had been working for
(29:34):
that client for three or fouryears, and I had, back to an
inspector, I had an inspectorthat came on board, did a great
job, really good at clientrelations, very good at client
relations, and there's greatvalue in that.
So, he comes in and basicallysits down and asked for a raise
and how it had been set up wasbecause he had gotten close to
(29:58):
the client.
The client said, well, I wantthis person to continue to be
the one that does the work forme.
I don't want anybody else.
This is who I want as theprimary person.
So, at that point, that personcame and said, the client loves
me, and for you to be there, Ineed to be there.
(30:19):
So, I want a r aise and here'swhat I think I should make.
Okay.
How do you think I felt aboutthat, unfortunately, the only
response I could make was, Iguess we lose that client?
I know you can't let yourself beput in that position.
(30:41):
Now, here's how that personcould have handled it.
That wo uld h a ve b een greatfor both of us, that he had such
a great relationship with theclient.
He could have said, if I can getyou to bump the company rate
daily basis, I can get a raiseas well.
(31:04):
So, in t hat, if he had a greatopportunity to not only do
something better for him but dosomething better for the
company.
He wo uld h a ve g otten it, thegentleman wanted this person on
the project, wanted him bad.
And that wo uld h a ve b een aneasy thing to do.
Both parties would havebenefited.
Okay.
But the situation, so I'vealways looked at that, that the
(31:28):
people need to understand the company's n ot this thing that is
just there to pull money from.
The company has to make money,and the company has to be
successful.
The more successful the companycan be if it's a good company
that passes down to theemployees.
So, that's the one that alwayssticks with me.
(31:52):
That was probably the worst way.
You know, you should just comeand put a gun to my head, give
me a raise or I'm go ing t o shoot yo u.
An d that was the experience.
So I know it, was that a goodstory or not?
Amanda (32:08):
That was a good story.
It's kind of crazy.
Did that employee stay with you?
Terry (32:12):
No, but it's funny.
And here's the thing.
I never take things personally,and I didn't burn a bridge and
we're still friends today, andhe did evolve in other areas,
and I'm really happy for him.
He really is a great guy, and weremained friends then maybe even
have opportunities in thefuture.
(32:33):
I guess that's the other sidebecause you have to look at
things in that, within thatvalue and how you see yourself,
really try to understand it, butthen it isn't a personal thing,
right?
But to be smart about it, youhave to detach a little bit, and
look, I hate that, business isbusiness.
(32:53):
That can be bad.
Okay, that's not what I'm tryingto get across.
But the reality is you have tolook at things from the business
sense.
And I don't burn bridges.
I do my best not to burn bridgesbecause you never know what can
happen in the future.
But for that immediate, it wasvery simple.
It was like, I can't do that andhere's what I'm going to tell
you why I can't do that.
(33:14):
B ecause it sets a precedentthat would create a culture,
right?
I mean, think about that, i sthat the culture you want to
create where you have employeesthat are basically coming with a
gun to your head.
S o, you want to create aculture that says, let's all
prosper, help me, help thecompany make more money, help
(33:36):
the company be more successful,you're going to be more
successful as well.
Yeah.
Amanda (33:41):
Yeah, that's true.
I think that sometimes there isthis mentality of us against
them type of conversation.
And so, I'm not sure how webridge that.
I think some of it is cultureand leadership, right?
We don't always have the bestleaders, paving the way for us.
But, we have to figure out a wayto get past that us and them
(34:07):
type of mentality I think andcollaborate more almost in order
to, for everyone to prosper, asyou said.
Terry (34:15):
And it ended up, how that could have been bridged if, he
would have come to me and said,what do I need to do to make
more money?
I would have said, well, thebest thing to do, if we can
raise the rate on your project,we can make more money.
You can make more money.
So, I think a lot of itscommunication, but it is
culture.
You know, it's getting pastthat, and you can't, I've never
(34:36):
tried to create us versus them.
It's kind of like everybody's on, I'll go back to the same
thing.
We're all on this ship together.
If this sinks, we're all goingdown.
Amanda (34:43):
We're all going down.
Terry (34:50):
Hopefully, there are enough lifeboats, but that means
there may not be.
Right.
Amanda (34:54):
So, I want to come work for you.
So is there, anything else youwant to add to this national
conversation about getting a payraise you think?
Terry (35:12):
I think just to sum it up, really just, be thoughtful
where you start.
One of the things too thatpeople very often start a job
for less than they want,thinking that they're going to,
when the employer sees how greatthey do, there's going to be
this huge jump.
(35:32):
You don't negotiate.
I don't do that because it'sharder to make bigger jobs,
right?
It's unless you move sideways ormove into huge promotions.
I mean, look for that job, bethoughtful in the job you're
looking for.
Research the company a bit, tryto find out kind of their
culture and how they look atthings.
And don't be afraid to askquestions during your interview,
(35:56):
you do them in a positive way.
But it's a way that it showsyou're thinking about the
company, your position in thatcompany.
You want to grow in the company,what are the expectations?
And you know, if it's a goodcompany, they're going to answer
those questions, and most ofthem are going to appreciate
(36:20):
those questions.
So, part of getting the raise isstarting off in the right job.
And sometimes we all take thingstemporarily, but if you're going
to take it temporarily, don'texpect to go get a raise.
Expect to be looking for thatopportunity with a company that
(36:40):
is going to find your value.
Amanda (36:56):
Terry, thank you so much for coming on the show.
I really appreciate it.
And, please, please share thepodcast and make sure you have
subscribed because a bunch ofyou aren't subscribed, and a lot
of you haven't told your friendsand family that it's the best
thing since sliced bread.
So, take care.
(37:16):
I'll talk to you soon.
Bye.
You need to see the relationship and how you fit
into that company being moresuccessful.
Amanda (00:13):
What is going on?
Welcome back to your veryfavorite podcasts out today,
where I interview executivedirectors, HR managers, and
learn all the secrets and tipsfor how you can get a raise at
your job.
We are living in the mostbizarre, scary, and trying
times, and I just want you toknow I'm thinking about you.
I'm pulling for you and here foryou.
(00:34):
Our hope with this wholeendeavor is to give you some
strategies and tools, so whenthe time is right, you can get
the raise that you deserve.
And I'm super stoked tointroduce you to Mr.
Terry Greenfield.
He has nearly 40 years ofexperience in the protective
coatings and corrosion industry.
His company, c on selects,provides program and project
(00:56):
management failure analysis,expert witness, and other
services for the corrosionindustry.
And this guy is smart, he hastactical expertise in
transportation, oil and gas,military and other industries
and regularly contributes toindustry journals is the author
of teaching curricula and anumber of technical conference
(01:18):
papers.
So, not to mention he's anaccomplished leader, and this
year happens to be the presidentof NACE international.
It's a 40,000-member globalassociation of corrosion
professionals, which takes himall around the world.
So, Terry, welcome to the show.
How are you doing?
Terry (01:37):
I'm doing great.
Thanks, Amanda.
That was quite an intro.
And don't worry, I stutter oncoatings and corrosion sometimes
as well, so it doesn't roll offthe tongue very well.
Amanda (01:50):
It doesn't, and I don't know what it is.
I always have that problem.
So, how are things in Alabama?
Okay?
Terry (01:58):
Yeah, things are good.
You know, we're all dealing with, I hope not a new norm.
I hope this is going to beshort-lived, but, transferring
into Florida, you have to gothrough a checkpoint, and you
know, Fair Hope, the city I livein has started a curfew, and the
(02:19):
police aren't pulling you overif they see you driving, but
generally, everybody's trying tomaintain, that physical distance
that we believe is going to helpus.
Amanda (02:31):
Yeah, before we started recording, you had mentioned
that we're more connected now asfar as we're not social
distancing, we're just physicaldistancing.
Terry (02:41):
Yeah, I think that's a misnomer, I guess.
I think people are, if you're inany of the social media guys,
see people on it that I haven'tseen in years, and frequent, and
everybody's trying to findsomething to do, right?
So, they're reaching out tocommunicate, I think if there's
anything that's going to be goodout of this.
I've always traveled a lot.
So, I've done telecoms andonline meetings.
(03:06):
And again, when I'm nottraveling, our headquarters are
in Florida, I typically work outof my home office.
So, I'm used to this.
And what I love seeing happen,it used to be everybody tried to
create their home element tolook like they were in the
(03:26):
office.
Right?
They had their tie on, everybodyhad to be quiet.
You may hear my dogs bark in thebackground.
Okay.
That, I think, is new, peopleare relaxing maybe what they
think the expectation needs tobe, which becomes a little more
informal and I think that'sgood.
(03:47):
Hopefully, we do a lot more.
Hopefully, we see, at least forbusiness, we're not forced to
sit at home i nto it, but wetake the opportunities to spend
more time with our families andless time on an airplane.
Amanda (04:00):
Oh yeah.
I know you go all over the worldtoo, don't you?
Terry (04:03):
This is the longest stint I've been home in a long time,
and I really kind of enjoy it.
Amanda (04:10):
So, Patty probably doesn't know what to do with
herself.
Terry (04:12):
She's finally gotten used to me being around.
If you have a conversation withher, it may be a different
conversation, though.
Amanda (04:21):
So, we talked a little bit about why we're here.
So, let's just jump into ourmain topic.
Let's, talk about getting araise at your job, and if you're
ready, I have some questions.
Okay.
So, what is your best advice forsomeone who feels undervalued at
(04:45):
work?
Terry (04:47):
It's interesting, and I think the first thing they need
to do is, I mean, you feelundervalued, that's an emotional
response, right?
You have to figure out why.
You have to define why you feelundervalued.
Typically, we say, well, it'sbecause of compensation.
I mean, does more money going tomake me feel more valued?
(05:08):
Maybe, there's a lot of reasonsthat tie into that.
So, first, I think you need toreally have a clear
understanding of why you feelundervalued.
Is it money?
Is it recognition?
Is it the potential foropportunity?
So that's a very multifacetedquestion of how you would
(05:31):
respond to that.
So, that's kind of the firststage.
I think really figure out whatthat means.
Why do you feel undervalued?
Amanda (05:41):
So kind of in an awareness of what's going on
almost.
Terry (05:46):
Well, yeah.
Because you have to understandthat and figure out the plan and
how to address it.
Okay.
Everybody wants to make moremoney.
I think that's a given.
I don't think there's anybodyyou would go to, even those who
are the very top that says, areyou going to keep this number?
Are you happy with that for thenext five years?
I don't care who that is.
They're going to go, well, no, Iwant to make more money.
(06:08):
So, there's that element ofreally understanding why you
feel undervalued.
And we see that.
I did just for some disclosure,I did listen in on your podcast
with Travis, and I enjoyed someof his responses because he's
(06:28):
looking at it from differentaspects.
We started off, and I loved thefreight carrier.
We were here before you came,and we'll be here after you
leave.
And I think a real key to thathits me too, is you have to look
(06:50):
at the job you're in, I thinkone of the things as people, and
if I start getting off on atangent, just lasso me.
Amanda (06:58):
Okay, no, no, this is good.
Terry (07:00):
But if people look at things and get a job, okay, they
need to look for opportunitiesin whatever they're doing.
They get a degree.
Maybe, it's tradesmen anddifferent skills, but they need
to look for the opportunitybecause there are some places
(07:21):
where there is no opportunity.
There's an element of, this is ajob, this is a task, you put the
bolt into the hole, screw thenut on, and that's going to be
it, so, selecting that.
The first step is making surethat you make decisions and
looking for an opportunity asyou kind of move forward.
(07:43):
And then when you're looking forthe right opportunities, you
know?
I'll sidetrack a little bitwhen, I, from a young age, I
never really looked for a job.
I looked for ways to make money.
So, that's not the norm foreverything.
But even when you're looking atjobs, if it's going to be
something you know is going tobe temporary, you can do the
(08:07):
best you can do, and it's goingto be over in the summer.
You're in college, and you'redoing a summer job, the question
keeps going back to how you feelvalued.
I'm going to flip it a littlebit because the real issue here
is that value, who has to seethe value, is the company that's
hired you, be that yoursupervisor, the owner, whoever
(08:30):
that's going to be.
You have to understand thatvalue that you present has to
somehow relate to companygrowth, company revenue.
So, it's a two-way street.
I mean, that's it isn't just anelement of a person feeling
undervalued.
It's how the company has to seethe value or their supervisors
(08:52):
or whatever it may be, has tosee the value of the individual.
So, a nd I would say, make sureyou look for the right
opportunity, but then make surethat you express yourself within
how you complete your work andthat the company sees the value.
You can begin to, here's anexample.
(09:12):
Sometimes it's easier to see ifthere's, and this is speaking
from experience over the yearswith people that I've hired and
had worked with, we've seen verypromising people.
One gentleman, a lot of what wedo, is i nspection.
So, we put people throughtraining courses and then
they're off in the world bythemselves, representing the
company with a client,inspecting, coding application
(09:36):
or whatever it may be.
And w e f ind, promisingindividuals and start them at a
pretty good rate and then spenda huge investment, almost$15,000
putting them through thetraining program to get the
top-level certification.
So, it's an exciting time.
They've completed it, we've gonethrough it, and then a week
(09:58):
later they come into my officeand says, I've been thinking now
that I'm a level three, I shouldbe worth more money.
So, does that, you see the valuep rop.
Okay.
The element t here i s thecompany made a huge investment
because they saw value in theindividual, and that's kind of
(10:21):
where, he felt undervalued inthis case, but the reality was
the company saw a lot of value,made a huge investment.
But now again that two-waystreet, now it's an element of
the contract, contributing tothe company to provide a return
from that investment for thevalue.
(10:42):
So, i t's again, maybe I'mgetting off on a tangent, but
those are the things that areimportant because so much of it
is how you're perceived.
So, looking for advice to anindividual that's trying to grow
within the company, i t's y ou,you need to see the relationship
and how you fit into thatcompany being more successful,
(11:04):
and the value that you'rebringing, and the new
opportunities that you canpursue.
And kind of like the timing,right?
Like going and getting certifiedand then coming back and saying
I deserve more money.
That was poor timing.
That's a good example of how notto do it.
Amanda (11:25):
Not to do it.
Yes, don't do that after you getcertified.
Terry (11:29):
But, as it was, we had a conversation about it and tried
to almost have the sameconversation, and then the
gentleman wasn't thrilled, buthe ended up making a
contribution, and it worked outwell for him in the end.
But again, I always look at theelement of, there's a
relationship, right?
(11:49):
And, depending upon, when youwork for a company, companies
generally are there to turn aprofit, to generate revenue of
some sort, and ultimatelysuccessful.
So, seeing how a company valuesthat person, there's a lot of
things that are involved inthat.
It's when they have to want tomake, I don't want to say kind
(12:13):
of back to Travis, think he wentabove and beyond what was really
required because that was hisnature to try to do that.
And within that job, it probablydidn't do him a lot of good.
But I think it's done a lot ofgood in the opportunities that
he founded after that.
Amanda (12:29):
So, the expectation, so exceeding expectations, having
that awareness and theopportunity.
Do you feel like this kind ofchange at all in today's world
since companies are cashstrapped and some are being
bailed out, people are, I knowcompanies are doing the best
(12:49):
they can?
People are unemployed.
Like it's just, it's crazywhat's happening right now.
Terry (12:56):
It is.
And I think the good news is, ifthere is any good news, is you
find the companies that arevaluable to work for because
they value the employees.
I see organizations that aregoing above and beyond trying to
figure out ways to keep theirteams together.
Realizing everybody's going tohurt a little bit, but still
(13:18):
trying to keep their teamstogether instead of just
straight, well, we're going tofurlough everyone and keep the
money in the bank.
You know, you recognize.
I remember there was a gentlemanthat had a shipyard here in
Mississippi, and after Katrina,everything was gone in
(13:39):
Mississippi, they got hit muchharder than Louisiana.
But this gentleman puteverything he had into making
sure that all his workers weretaken care of.
He helped people relocate, andhe ended up bringing his
business back if he hadn't donethat.
He had a skilled labor set thathe valued, so he saw the value
(14:03):
in his employees because of thework they had done, and they
were part of the team.
He valued every one of them, andhe took care of them to bring
them back.
That's a company you want towork for.
Amanda (14:12):
Yeah, it is really telling to see some of the
companies right now how they'restepping up for people, and some
of the other ones that are, likeyou, said like furloughed, and
you see that relationship of howmuch they do value the employees
more or less.
Terry (14:30):
And you if you're looking to, again, back to feeling
undervalued, and trying tofigure out what that really
means, in some cases, you justmight not be the right fit.
You've heard of the thing; youhave to go sideways to go
higher.
Right?
And that's sometimes peopledon't like change either.
Typically, most people don'tlike change.
(14:51):
If you want to make more moneyand be in a position where you
feel more that you're beingvalued by the employer, the
company, you may have to gosideways, and that's tough for
some people.
You do need to go find anotheropportunity.
Amanda (15:09):
Yeah.
Usually, people are looking toadvance or go higher.
They don't want to go in alateral position in order to
make that change.
So what would you say tosomebody that you know, is
making a move laterally orsideways in the effort to go
(15:30):
higher.
Terry (15:32):
Okay.
Don't ever do things out ofspite or, people get, well I'm
not being valued, so I'm goingto go find something else.
Well, don't be in a hurry aboutthat.
Sure, make sure you are verytactical in your approach.
Even strategic is probablybetter, really look for what
(15:53):
moves is going to be the best.
And that's where they can takethe skill set you have, and you
can leverage that, and thecompany can leverage that to be
more successful.
I mean, that's where you'regoing to find the right fit,
when people think aboutinterviews, what gets forgotten
sometimes i s the person that'sbeing interviewed, it's okay for
(16:18):
you to do a little bit of aninterview as well.
It's okay to ask, sometimesasking the right questions of
the potential employer actuallypresents you i n a better
position, right?
That y ou thought thingsthrough, and you're looking at
the big picture that you'relooking for opportunity, and
you've really thought throughthe process.
You've looked at the company,and you understand the company.
(16:40):
It's okay to ask those questionsof, I'm not just answering what
they want me to present, but tothink of the questions that you
need to ask to find theopportunity t hat's going to be
the most beneficial to you.
A nd, and I'll tell you, ifsomeone doesn't appreciate that,
that's not the company you wantto work for.
Amanda (17:01):
Yeah.
Have you had anybody do that toyou before?
Put you in the hot seat.
Terry (17:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
It was impressive, though.
Let me tell you they stood outbecause of that, and it showed
that they had really thoughtbecause it was a higher-level
position.
And it requires going tosomebody that's going to take on
a pretty big responsibility, andyou're always cautious about
that, from an employerstandpoint, am I making the
(17:29):
right decision?
And then the questions theyasked, I mean, even into the
culture of the company, theywere questioning that.
It made us realize they hadreally thought about it.
This was a big consideration forthem.
And they put the time, and theeffort, because here's what an
employer wants to avoid with theexception of that person is
(17:50):
maybe putting up, with theexception of the person putting
the nut and the bolt together,building the widget.
You want people that are goingto be big thinkers, and you're g
oing t o want people that wantto understand the culture, how
they're going to grow.
(18:11):
We didn't get the question ofhow you would handle a situation
like, COVID-1919.
But that's probably a reasonablequestion to ask.
What happens if there's apandemic, and how are you going
to deal with the employees atthat point?
They may not give you a greatanswer, but you can at least get
(18:32):
a sense of the culture thatyou're going to work in because
that's important.
It really is.
The company culture that you'rechoosing is significant, w ell,
i t's probably the most, thatthe culture is what's going to
determine how that companyvalues your contribution to
them.
Right?
Amanda (18:51):
Is that usually your direct report, or do you think
that that's just overall workingwith other teammates and just
everything as a holistic view ofthe culture?
Terry (19:03):
I think it's a holistic view of the culture, but so many
things are taught.
Culture is top-down within anorganization.
If you have a good organizationthat has developed a culture of
teamwork, and creating anenvironment that people want to
be productive, and enjoy theirwork, if they find a direct
(19:24):
report a supervisor, mid-levelmanager, or even vice president
that doesn't toe that line, andcontribute to that culture, you
want to know that that's goingto be fixed.
So, that has to be the culturethat's developed.
Whatever the right word may befrom the top down, then
(19:46):
everybody contributes, right?
Once the culture is established,you get a pretty good idea that
you're going to be in anenvironment that's productive.
Most people want to go to work,and they'd be happy to win the
lottery.
If you have to go to work,you're going to want to go to
(20:09):
work, and enjoy the work you do.
Right?
You know eight hours out of yourday, five days a week at the
minimum.
Typically, you want to be ableto enjoy it.
So, again, kind of goes back tothat first element of making
sure you're valued, just to makesure you're working for the
right company.
Amanda (20:25):
So, more or less, make sure that you are a good fit.
You're asking questions even upto the interview process.
What about performance reviews?
Once they're already in theculture, they feel like they're
contributing.
What do those types ofconversations look like for you
and your employees?
Terry (20:45):
I have to be honest.
I think a lot of times, thingsbecome a process because that's
a box we're supposed to check.
Okay.
We did their annual performancereview, and you see the ones
that go, okay.
Well, how do you think you didor, there are so many different
(21:05):
ways of looking at that that Ithink it's important.
I guess the simple answer is, Ihate that kind of thing.
I hate annual performancereviews because it's more of a
formality than something thatreally has value.
I see some companies that try tolook a t things where throughout
(21:27):
the year, we're continuallysetting reasonable goals, and
you help set your own goals ofwhat you're trying to achieve.
And it kind of gives more of ameasurable, or a metric in how
you're performing.
So then at the end of the year,you can go, well, Hey, this
looks good.
You hit all these marks, and youactually accomplished more than
(21:49):
you thought you were g oing to,and then you give t hem a grade,
right?
That's the funny thing too.
What do we all want for a grade?
Amanda, I know you'd be an A+without any question.
I'm g oing to t hrow yourhusband's name back out again.
(22:16):
Travis and I ar e b othinstructors in the NACE CIP
program, and they do evaluationsat the end of the course, and
it's almost, I joke a littlebit.
You can almost be an evangelist,right?
You're showing th em s omethingnew, and you're carrying them
down the path, and they getexcited, and boy, it's a one to
five, five being the highestrating, an d m an, you can get
(22:39):
all fi ves, boom, boom, boom,boom.
What does that really mean?
It really means you were good atwhat you did, or you just really
move them.
Here's th e downside.
When you go through to do anin-house c ourse for a
manufacturer or someone wherethat entire group is used to
doing annual performanceevaluations, and things like
(23:03):
that on a one to five, what'sexpected?
What if you did everything youwere supposed to do, what would
you get?
A three, re ally i n most cases,when they look at that, it's the
expectation.
Not just saying if you did yourjob as it was written in the
thing, you would get a three.
(23:25):
Wha t ar e th e things that youreally do to make you a four,
and then the superlative effort?
The y ge t you the five, gradingsystems are to ugh.
And I guess, I don't know if Ianswered a question here, or ju
st threw up a big conversation.
Other than, companies have that,they have policies, but don't
let that be the only thing thatdrives how you show your
(23:55):
performance, how you presentyour performance for the past
year.
One of the problems that youreally have to avoid is don't
be, and I call them theminimals.
Oka y.
Not millennials, the minimals,if you just do the minimum of
(24:16):
what the expectation is, then,you have to be realistic about
the value.
The reality is, out of the onethrough a five, you're a t h
ree.
So, if you look, kind of e verybody doesn't get a
participation trophy.
It comes down to when peoplelook at who they're going to
(24:38):
promote, and they're going tolook at those that do a little
extra, like in today'senvironment.
So, I've experienced this, and Ihad som eone that was a friend
of mine.
Don't ever hire your friends.
I had some one who was a friendof mine that had lost their job,
(25:01):
and I thought I saw anopportunity for them to build
something.
And I was willing to helpsponsor that kind of venture.
And they were used to making afairly large salary in the
software world.
And it was like, well, I can'tdo that.
The opportunity is here, but wecan do X of that.
(25:26):
And unfortunately, theopportunity was never seen.
His rationale was, well, I'mmaking half of what I'm worth,
so I'm only goin g to d o halfof what I think I should do.
The companies that have keptpeople furloughed, and they're
going to look at the people thathave still perf ormed.
(25:49):
Ev en if there's a reduced wage,the people that have still
performed, they're the ones whoare goin g to s ee opportunities
come out when we get back tonormal.
Amanda (25:59):
The people that stepped up and all of those things kept
the semi-positive attitude.
I feel like it would be hardright now to be positive.
What do you think?
Terry (26:10):
I've sailed and raced sailboats and delivered
sailboats most of my life,especially when I was young.
I took about a two-year hiatusbetween my junior year of
college, and finishing, todeliver sailboats, having a good
time.
And one of my major events was Iexperienced a storm off Cape
Hatteras that there was a groupof us delivering a 50-foot
(26:34):
sailboat.
We were dismasted, and 30-footseas documented.
That's not an anecdotal.
They were actually documented.
But you're thinking, and yourealize that that was major, I
was probably 24 at that time wasa major element for me in how I
(26:56):
look at life because I wasthere.
Nothing that I could do aboutit, but survive, but here's what
I knew.
It wasn't going to last forever.
It was going to end.
So, I look at weathering storms,the key issue in weathering the
storm is knowing that it's notforever, it's going to end.
(27:17):
So, you have to do everythingyou can do during the storm, and
let that be the focus instead ofbeing depressed about it, and
worrying what's going to happen.
Deal with the immediate, do whatyou need to do.
Do everything you can.
If you've been furloughed,you've been furloughed, start
(27:37):
looking for those opportunities.
Look for where you can step outof this in a brighter light
because it's going to end, itwill end, and the sunshine will
come out again, and the seaswill go back to being somewhat
flat, and then you can figure itout, it's going to get back to
hopefully a better state.
So, use the time now if you'renot working to figure out how
(28:06):
you're going to come out better,it's going to be opportunity.
Amanda (28:09):
For sure, and I loved what you said earlier.
You said I never looked for ajob.
I always looked for ways to makemoney, and that feels very
appropriate with what we'retalking about.
Like if you have the chanceright now to look for those ways
almost.
Terry (28:28):
Yeah.
There's always something, and Ithink that creates a different
mindset too.
Cause it makes you moreself-reliant.
Okay.
Where you're not looking towhere my job is what defines me.
Amanda (28:52):
That's true.
So, typically I will ask theguests to share kind of their
best war story about getting araise, whether it's you or
someone else that you know.
Do you have any of your favoritecompensation conversations?
Terry (29:12):
I tell you, here's what I had.
I have to kind of set it up alittle bit because I think this
was really relevant becauseagain, I've always kind of
talked about the value, right?
The value that you bring as anemployee has to translate into
value for the company.
And we were doing work for aclient and had been working for
(29:34):
that client for three or fouryears, and I had, back to an
inspector, I had an inspectorthat came on board, did a great
job, really good at clientrelations, very good at client
relations, and there's greatvalue in that.
So, he comes in and basicallysits down and asked for a raise
and how it had been set up wasbecause he had gotten close to
(29:58):
the client.
The client said, well, I wantthis person to continue to be
the one that does the work forme.
I don't want anybody else.
This is who I want as theprimary person.
So, at that point, that personcame and said, the client loves
me, and for you to be there, Ineed to be there.
(30:19):
So, I want a r aise and here'swhat I think I should make.
Okay.
How do you think I felt aboutthat, unfortunately, the only
response I could make was, Iguess we lose that client?
I know you can't let yourself beput in that position.
(30:41):
Now, here's how that personcould have handled it.
That wo uld h a ve b een greatfor both of us, that he had such
a great relationship with theclient.
He could have said, if I can getyou to bump the company rate
daily basis, I can get a raiseas well.
(31:04):
So, in t hat, if he had a greatopportunity to not only do
something better for him but dosomething better for the
company.
He wo uld h a ve g otten it, thegentleman wanted this person on
the project, wanted him bad.
And that wo uld h a ve b een aneasy thing to do.
Both parties would havebenefited.
Okay.
But the situation, so I'vealways looked at that, that the
(31:28):
people need to understand the company's n ot this thing that is
just there to pull money from.
The company has to make money,and the company has to be
successful.
The more successful the companycan be if it's a good company
that passes down to theemployees.
So, that's the one that alwayssticks with me.
(31:52):
That was probably the worst way.
You know, you should just comeand put a gun to my head, give
me a raise or I'm go ing t o shoot yo u.
An d that was the experience.
So I know it, was that a goodstory or not?
Amanda (32:08):
That was a good story.
It's kind of crazy.
Did that employee stay with you?
Terry (32:12):
No, but it's funny.
And here's the thing.
I never take things personally,and I didn't burn a bridge and
we're still friends today, andhe did evolve in other areas,
and I'm really happy for him.
He really is a great guy, and weremained friends then maybe even
have opportunities in thefuture.
(32:33):
I guess that's the other sidebecause you have to look at
things in that, within thatvalue and how you see yourself,
really try to understand it, butthen it isn't a personal thing,
right?
But to be smart about it, youhave to detach a little bit, and
look, I hate that, business isbusiness.
(32:53):
That can be bad.
Okay, that's not what I'm tryingto get across.
But the reality is you have tolook at things from the business
sense.
And I don't burn bridges.
I do my best not to burn bridgesbecause you never know what can
happen in the future.
But for that immediate, it wasvery simple.
It was like, I can't do that andhere's what I'm going to tell
you why I can't do that.
(33:14):
B ecause it sets a precedentthat would create a culture,
right?
I mean, think about that, i sthat the culture you want to
create where you have employeesthat are basically coming with a
gun to your head.
S o, you want to create aculture that says, let's all
prosper, help me, help thecompany make more money, help
(33:36):
the company be more successful,you're going to be more
successful as well.
Yeah.
Amanda (33:41):
Yeah, that's true.
I think that sometimes there isthis mentality of us against
them type of conversation.
And so, I'm not sure how webridge that.
I think some of it is cultureand leadership, right?
We don't always have the bestleaders, paving the way for us.
But, we have to figure out a wayto get past that us and them
(34:07):
type of mentality I think andcollaborate more almost in order
to, for everyone to prosper, asyou said.
Terry (34:15):
And it ended up, how that could have been bridged if, he
would have come to me and said,what do I need to do to make
more money?
I would have said, well, thebest thing to do, if we can
raise the rate on your project,we can make more money.
You can make more money.
So, I think a lot of itscommunication, but it is
culture.
You know, it's getting pastthat, and you can't, I've never
(34:36):
tried to create us versus them.
It's kind of like everybody's on, I'll go back to the same
thing.
We're all on this ship together.
If this sinks, we're all goingdown.
Amanda (34:43):
We're all going down.
Terry (34:50):
Hopefully, there are enough lifeboats, but that means
there may not be.
Right.
Amanda (34:54):
So, I want to come work for you.
So is there, anything else youwant to add to this national
conversation about getting a payraise you think?
Terry (35:12):
I think just to sum it up, really just, be thoughtful
where you start.
One of the things too thatpeople very often start a job
for less than they want,thinking that they're going to,
when the employer sees how greatthey do, there's going to be
this huge jump.
(35:32):
You don't negotiate.
I don't do that because it'sharder to make bigger jobs,
right?
It's unless you move sideways ormove into huge promotions.
I mean, look for that job, bethoughtful in the job you're
looking for.
Research the company a bit, tryto find out kind of their
culture and how they look atthings.
And don't be afraid to askquestions during your interview,
(35:56):
you do them in a positive way.
But it's a way that it showsyou're thinking about the
company, your position in thatcompany.
You want to grow in the company,what are the expectations?
And you know, if it's a goodcompany, they're going to answer
those questions, and most ofthem are going to appreciate
(36:20):
those questions.
So, part of getting the raise isstarting off in the right job.
And sometimes we all take thingstemporarily, but if you're going
to take it temporarily, don'texpect to go get a raise.
Expect to be looking for thatopportunity with a company that
(36:40):
is going to find your value.
Amanda (36:56):
Terry, thank you so much for coming on the show.
I really appreciate it.
And, please, please share thepodcast and make sure you have
subscribed because a bunch ofyou aren't subscribed, and a lot
of you haven't told your friendsand family that it's the best
thing since sliced bread.
So, take care.
(37:16):
I'll talk to you soon.
Bye.
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