April 8, 2020 • 25 mins
Travis LeFever steps up in the kickoff episode where we interview high-flying executives about all the things YOU can do to get a raise at work!
This guy has turned around three multi-million dollar corporations, taking them all from the brink of bankruptcy to their best years ever.
In this episode, Travis offers some “first job mistakes”, plus practical advice about how to approach your next conversation about getting paid more, especially how and when to do it in a down economy.
It’s more fun than hard-hitting journalism because he and your host Amanda have been married for almost a decade and he’s her very first victim...uh...guest...on the Raise Up Podcast!
Get the show notes and more great resources from this episode at the link below!
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https://www.raiseuppodcast.com/2
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Travis (00:00):
I still remember what he told me.
He said, Travis, we were herebefore you got here, and we'll
be here a long time after you'regone.
And if you need to find anotherjob, then that's what you're
going to have to do.
Amanda (00:12):
Welcome back to the number one podcast that teaches
people how to get paid whatthey're worth.
I'm your host and resident humanbehavior nerd.
Super excited about today'sguest.
You guys, you should be too.
My guest today is none otherthan the infamous Travis
(00:35):
Lefever, serial entrepreneur whostarted and successfully exited
three businesses, ran corporateturnarounds for three years, and
has spoken in taught in eightdifferent countries.
You know, he's worked with somebig-name clients like Facebook,
Kraft, and Tyson foods, LOCTITE,every branch of the military,
Ripley's believe it or not, andNASA, that's just to name a few.
(00:58):
But mostly he's my husband.
He's my baby daddy and thebug-killer in our house.
So mainly that's what he does,especially since we're all
working from home these days,and its springtime.
There are a significant amountof bugs for some reason.
And we live in the woods, and wefound a snake the other day in
my garage after I set up myworkout equipment out there, and
(01:22):
I'm not excited about that.
Anyway.
So, if this interview gets alittle off the rails, like it
just kind of did.
It's because we've been coopedup together with my mom and our
four-year old daughter for threeweeks straight.
Nonetheless, he has a fewdecades of experience as in the
executive ranks, leading people,managing people, and negotiating
(01:47):
compensation.
And he agreed to come on theshow after I asked him multiple
times over coffee and stuff andbasically said that he had to.
So, he's going to share some ofthe things he's learned about
getting a raise with us.
So, thank you, Mr.
Lefever, for coming on the show.
How is your self-isolationgoing?
Travis (02:08):
It is good.
Good, and an interesting thing,of course, stuff we have never
seen before or done before.
A lot of things we're doing asyou know, we're working from
home, so at least we're beingproductive.
And if I have to be maroonedwith anyone, I can't think of
anyone else.
I'd rather be marooned with,you're my person.
Amanda (02:28):
Well, thanks.
Let's talk about getting a raiseat your job.
My first question, are youready?
What is your best advice forsomeone who feels undervalued at
work?
Travis (02:47):
Undervalued.
So that question hits at a lotof different levels.
I think in my experience,feeling undervalued has a lot
less to do with your paycheckand a lot more to do with the
leadership at your company or atyour office.
You can be making 10 bucks anhour, and a team culture makes
(03:10):
you feel valued and wanted, andyou want to get up and go to
work every day.
Or I've seen people making$500,000, and they're miserable
and feel like nobody cares aboutthem.
So, that's probably a little bitoff-topic, but if somebody came
to me and said, Hey, I don'tfeel valued at my job.
My best advice is to findanother team to play on.
(03:32):
That's a leadership failing aculture.
All the money in the worlddoesn't necessarily make people
feel valued, make them moremoney.
Obviously, it makes it moretolerable, though.
There's sometimes no way toescape a toxic workplace,
especially in the short term.
So, if you're just talking aboutgetting a raise, I could help a
(03:52):
little bit.
Is that what you want, is to gointo like the money part?
Amanda (03:56):
Yeah, I'm talking about the money part.
The money part.
Yeah, for sure.
Travis (04:00):
I remember my first real experience of asking for a raise
myself.
It's kind of a funny story.
I was working at the RaleighDurham airport here in North
Carolina, and I was co-oppingwith UPS.
And I remember I started at$7.15an hour, and I think it was back
then, minimum wage.
And, if you don't know what UPSdoes at the airports, on the
(04:25):
night shift, we load all theovernight packages from Piedmont
here into 757's, and i n DC-8's,and they fly up to Louisville,
Kentucky for the big overnightsort.
And then on the morning shift,those aircraft would come back
in, we would unload all the nextday air packages, and distribute
them all over North Carolina.
(04:45):
But it was really hard work inthe rain and snow.
We were out on the tarmac in thesummer, it was super-hot, and
after about a month of this Irealized that I felt that I was
out working everybody else, I'msweating, sweating my rear off
out there, an d I was alreadysupervising people.
I was really helping out.
(05:07):
And so, I went to my boss afterone of the shifts was over, I
was like, Hey Jerry, how am Idoing here?
It w as kind of setting him up,and of course, he told me how
good I was doing and how much heappreciated me.
He s aid some nice things and,an d t hen I delivered the blow,
right?
I was like, well, I've beenthinking this is really hard
work, and I think I should bemaking more money and if we
(05:30):
can't work something out thenI'm go ing t o h ave to go find
another job.
And I learned pretty quick, infact, I even still remember
whatever it is, 20-25 yearslater, I still remember what he
told me.
He said, Travis, we were herebefore you got here and we'll be
here a long time after you'regone, and if you need to find
(05:53):
another job then, that's whatyou're going to have to do.
So, my first piece of advicebefore I tell anybody how to get
a raise, I'll tell people hownot to get fired.
And so that piece of advice isnever to give your boss an u
ltimatum or try to takeadvantage of a bad situation.
And I think that that'sappropriate.
(06:13):
With COVID-19, what we're goingthrough now in a recession, a
lot of companies or p eoplemight feel, I've got my boss
right where I want th em, o vera barrel.
They need me here to se ll o rto help with operations or to
drive or whatever it is.
And it's a perfect time toreally get them for more money,
(06:36):
and it is not the perfect time.
It's a really bad time, ahorrible time to put anybody
over a barrel.
Amanda (06:45):
Well, and even for yourself too because of the
situation.
I mean, if you give them anultimatum and they're like,
okay, and you don't have anyother options.
Travis (06:52):
Yeah, yeah.
You gotta work out your options.
And that's something that I'vekind of been thinking about
since you asked me to come on.
What are people's options?
But I'm sure you want me to tellyou what I would do, right?
Not just what I wouldn't do.
Amanda (07:08):
Yes.
I liked the, would not, that washelpful right from the
beginning, especially in ourcurrent situation.
So, what would you do then?
Let's go that route.
Travis (07:21):
My second piece of advice and I've got some notes
here is to, first put togethersome hard data about what you
might be worth on the markettoday and what you're bringing
to that business in terms ofhard dollar productivity or
savings.
(07:41):
Then once you've gathered thatinformation to present that to
your boss with a reasonable askand not as an ultimatum, as a
request, I'm big on the three-sentence, ask.
And if you're not familiar withthe three sentence ask, it goes
something like this.
Get your pencil ready.
First, you've always been a goodboss.
(08:02):
This has always been a greatplace to work.
Second, that we work welltogether, and what I contribute
to the team, I've even made alist for us to talk about.
And then the third sentence is,if it makes sense based on what
I'm bringing to the business,I'd ask you to consider an
increase in my compensation of$10,000 a year.
(08:23):
Is that fair?
And that would be theconversation that I had with my
boss.
Amanda (08:30):
Nice.
Well, that sounds interesting,to say the least.
So, I hadn't heard about thethree sentence, ask.
But I want to go back just towhat you had said before that,
you said to gather data, likehard data.
So, where do you recommend thatpeople find that data?
(08:51):
First of all, that's comparable,just Google it, or is there
anywhere that they should lookspecifically?
Travis (08:58):
Yeah, Google is absolutely the best place.
There are tons of resources,tons of webinars on LinkedIn,
the Slide-Share app, and you canfind tons of salary surveys.
I got one the other day from aheadhunter, from a recruiter,
and they were like, here are allthe people that we've placed in
(09:18):
your executive positions inNorth Carolina.
And they had a giant list of thepositions and their salaries.
And to be honest, I was blownaway by what some people were
getting as executives here inNorth Carolina.
And it definitely informed, notjust me, but if I was asking
(09:41):
somebody for a raise, that wouldbe an incredible piece of paper
to slide across the table tothem.
Look what my skillset is worthon the market.
Amanda (09:55):
Hmm.
Okay.
So that's awesome.
Then let's move to the bigthree.
One thing that I saw that youhad said is the$10,000 a year,
right?
Is there a magic number thatyou're thinking?
Is there a percentage?
Should people go for the bignumber, or should they go for
the$1-$2 per hour raise?
(10:21):
What's the best approach youfeel like with something like
that?
Travis (10:26):
Everybody's going to be different?
I think it's all situational,but if I was making$40,000 a
year, I did some research andsaw that everybody else in my
geography had my job title wasmaking$50,000 a year.
I think a fair ask would be toincrease to at least the
mid-point or to maybe the ask,was to increase to the$50,000
(10:51):
and settle for the mid-point.
I think there's a lot ofnegotiating skills that we could
talk about at some point, abouthow to get to where, cause it's
all about being fair, right?
We want to feel like as humansthat we're being treated fairly
and a lot of the discontent andprobably a lot of the reason
(11:12):
people are listening to this isthat they don't feel they're
being paid what they're worth,that it's not fair to them.
And if they were being paidfairly, they'd look at things, a
lot different.
So, it's not about is it adollar, is it$5,000 or is it
$20,000 it's all about gettingto where you feel like you're
(11:33):
fairly compensated for yourcontributions.
Amanda (11:35):
Okay.
So, we were talking aboutearlier, the current climate and
not taking advantage of yourbosses or giving them an
ultimatum.
Do you feel this is a good timefor people to be asking for
raises or what do you think theapproach should be during
COVID-19 right now?
Travis (11:56):
Yeah, I think it's less about a good time or a bad time
to ask for a raise other than agood time to find that
information and to be preparedto have a conversation about
what's fair.
With the people who are makingdecisions about what you're
being compensated.
(12:16):
And eventually, I believe thatgetting a raise is a process.
It's not something that you hearme give advice, and you go have
that conversation next week orhear something on the podcast,
it sounds like a good idea andclicks off the podcast and walk
over to your boss's office.
That's not my advice.
Amanda (12:36):
Okay.
That's good clarification.
Travis (12:39):
Yeah, I think this is a very strategic thing.
This podcast you said in yourintro, it's for smart people who
have the ability to sort of planahead these conversations and
get ready for the comp review.
Get ready for their review everyyear.
And that's what I'm thinking ismy advice is how to get ready
(13:03):
for the review, not how to gotomorrow and get a raise.
Amanda (13:09):
Yeah.
So as part of getting ready forthe review, also have other
options, if they can't paycompensation, are you trying to
get another week of vacation orare you trying to get more sick
pay or is that something thatyou feel people should be
prepared with as well?
Travis (13:27):
Absolutely.
I see having and hear in mycareer people do not realize
that compensation, your totalcompensation is made up of
different things.
For example, it's not just yourpaycheck.
(13:49):
You could be paid$50,000 a year.
If you are also given a companycar, all of a sudden, you do not
have to pay out of your$50,000for gas, insurance, maintenance,
and car payment.
So, a company car could reallybe worth$10,000 a year in your
(14:13):
compensation.
And the same for extra vacationdays, right?
Days, you don't have to show upat work or don't have to
actually contribute paidvacations on top of comp, paying
health insurance for you ratherthan splitting it or making you
(14:36):
pay it.
That's all part of compensation.
And I don't feel peoplerecognize that enough.
So, a fair ask might be, I knowyou can't give me a raise right
now, but I know that you havecompany cars, and that's already
factored into the overhead.
And if you could give me acompany car that'd be a great
(14:57):
little bump to my compensationthat I think is fair.
Amanda (15:02):
Okay.
So having options is a good ideagoing in.
Travis (15:06):
Yeah.
Understand what compensation orwhat your company already does
and asking for things they'realready doing for other people.
It is almost like the easystreet.
If you're asking to use thecompany condo when only the
(15:29):
president gets or, our executiveteam gets to use that.
I mean, that's one thing that'sa much harder uphill climb.
Amanda (15:37):
I remember whenever I was, working in the restaurant
business, one of the other girlsthat was working counter with
me, she was making$2 more anhour than I was, and I found
this out.
And so, it made me so upset thatI felt like I was working harder
(15:57):
and longer, and I guess betterthan she was and she was making
more, and she wasn't reliable.
And I remember taking that kindof to my boss, but I'm not sure
if that's necessarily the bestapproach, right?
Hey, this person makes more thanI do, I should make as much as
(16:18):
them.
Is that kind of what we'resaying too?
Or no, not really?
Travis (16:24):
I think it's a much weaker argument.
Not that it wouldn't work orappeal to your boss's sense of
fairness.
But executives, businessmanagers, and owners, they
manage to budgets, a lot oftimes and they have terminology
(16:44):
that they use, and vocabularythat they use, and they
understand productivity andsavings and that kind of stuff.
I feel a much stronger argumentwould be for you to couch your
value and the fairness of yourcompensation in terms of how
you're impacting the bottomline.
So, if you can go in and say,look, I landed this client, and
(17:06):
that client contributes amillion dollars to our bottom
line every year, and I'm the onewho manages the relationship.
That's worth money.
That's hard compensation.
But to say, Jane makes$50,000,and I only make$46,000, I think
I deserve a raise up to$50,000now.
(17:31):
Yeah, that falls apart quickly.
There's no hard connection.
I'm suggesting that you go andcapture your contribution in
business terms that managersunderstand, and that the CFO
understands your company.
Because a lot of times your bossisn't the one making the
(17:51):
decision about yourcompensation.
They may love you to death andthink that you're worth millions
.
The last turnaround that I did,I had folks who were worth a
$100,000 only making$60,000 andtries as I might, and as much as
I would argue for those peopleto make even$80,000 or$90,000
that it just wasn't happening,the CFO didn't see it in terms
(18:16):
of contribution to compensatesomebody that much.
So, you really have to dial inwhat you're bringing to the
business in dollar terms, thelanguage they can understand and
present it, make thoseconnections super solid.
Amanda (18:34):
So that rolls me into my next question.
Sometimes, there are realfinancial constraints for
businesses.
They believe that you're worthmore money and they want to pay
you more money, but it's justnot in the cards for them at
that time.
How do you suggest kind ofwaiting through those types of
(18:57):
situations?
Travis (18:59):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I've been in that spot myself asa business owner, and want to
pay folks more money, realizingtheir contributions, and just
because we had a bad job or abad year or something, not being
able to really pay them whateven I thought they were worth.
So I think coming from aposition of someone who's asking
(19:23):
for a raise, if you're in asmall company, that has real
financial constraints, or maybehe's having a bad time, then you
really have to look fornon-financial bumps in the comp.
So that looks like time off,telecommuting, the company car.
I mean, paying the healthinsurance, things that don't
(19:44):
cost them as much as just givingyou a$10,000 raise in your
salary.
Because another thing I don'tthink people realize is why
those non-monetary raises areeasier is because every time
that a business or your bossgives you a raise, right?
Like$50-$55,000 or$50-$60,000 orwhatever it is, it costs them
(20:08):
10% more than the raise theygave you on their bottom line.
So, if a company gives you a$10,000 raise, it costs them
$11,000 to do that because ofemployer taxes, unemployment
taxes, workers comp, all thosethings are based on payroll
(20:29):
dollars.
They're a percentage of payrolldollars.
And so, the lower they can keeptheir payroll, it's kind of
leveraged to lower cost acrossthe board.
But asking for an extra week ofvacation is a no brainer for
them.
It costs them nothing.
Amanda (20:45):
Hmm.
It doesn't?
How does it not cost themnothing?
I don't understand.
Travis (20:51):
It cost them nothing, and they don't have to pay any
more money out the door thanwhat they've already been
paying.
Amanda (20:58):
So like paid time off almost?
Travis (21:00):
Yeah.
You're just not therecontributing to the company.
But that doesn't mean thatyou're not keeping up with your
clients or keeping up with yourdeadlines or still managing your
team.
You're just not necessarily inthe office 40 hours that week.
Yeah, absolutely.
Amanda (21:18):
But you'd still be preparing and everything to
leave for the week, and then youwould make up or pick up.
Travis (21:24):
Well, of course, you have to keep up with your
responsibilities.
We're not saying ditchcompletely, but in fact, you
could argue the fact, andthere's some research out there
that you're more productive.
Yeah.
You're more productive becausenow you have deadlines, and now
you have to catch up, and youwant to prepare to not be there.
But that's stretching, right?
(21:48):
A little bit.
Amanda (21:49):
Yeah.
I don't know.
There are some companies thathave moved to unlimited
vacation, just so that theirteams have the leeway.
Travis (21:59):
So I think that my contribution to the conversation
is that you have to do itcorrectly.
There are no ultimatums ortaking advantage of people.
You have to value your companyand those people who run it just
as much as you expect them tovalue you.
But there are typically gaps andespecially in small businesses
(22:24):
between market value and whatyou agreed to come on to work
for whatever it was last year ora month ago or ten years ago.
It's unlikely that your salaryhas kept up with the market
rates and there's some gap thatyou should understand how to go
(22:45):
and do the research and figureout what to ask for to make it
more fair to you.
And so, you feel fairlycompensated for your
contribution.
I think that's a relatively easything to do for most people.
Amanda (22:58):
All right.
So, I really appreciate youcoming on the show, Travis
LeFever.
Thanks.
You're a smart guy.
I think that you added a lot ofvalue and definitely gave some
great advice around getting araise.
How can people find you or askyou questions or if they need
(23:20):
any clarification about what wetalked about, where can they hit
you up?
Travis (23:24):
Oh yeah, happy to help in any way that I can.
You can find me on LinkedIn.
Travis LeFever, the one in NorthCarolina, not the one in
Colorado.
Amanda (23:35):
I didn't know there was a guy in Colorado?
Travis (23:39):
And unfortunately, he's also in construction.
So, a lot of folks get usconfused.
Or you could just connect withAmanda.
Of course, she'll get us hookedup.
But on your Instagram or RaiseUp podcast.com, of course, you
can just put, hey man, let metalk to Travis in the contact
(24:02):
email.
Amanda (24:04):
Oh, that's hilarious.
I will pass along theinformation very quickly.
Travis (24:08):
Or I can give you Amanda's cell phone number.
Amanda (24:13):
I guess you could give out my cell phone number.
I might not answer it, though,because I rarely answer numbers
that I don't know.
And I know you guys are the sameway.
So, don't judge me for notanswering telemarketers that
pretend that they're my friends.
Travis (24:27):
Maybe I can come back and tell some of my crazier
raise stories of people askingfor a raise when they went bad
and went good.
Amanda (24:35):
That would be awesome.
Those are my favorite stories,to be honest.
Travis (24:40):
Maybe in your Podcasts, you can have war story episodes,
like compilations.
Amanda (24:44):
Ooh, like a bonus.
And that's, and to be honest,that's how you get the bonus
ones is if you subscribe.
So subscribe to the podcast, oryou know, you can always like
and share and take a screenshotof this episode and put it on
your socials and tag me in itbecause I want to connect.
(25:07):
I want to see what you guys areliking, and not liking, let us
know.
This is a community, Raise UpNation, and we want to be in
this together.
So, thanks again, honey, forbeing on the show.
Travis (25:22):
My Pleasure.
Bye you guys.
Amanda (25:23):
Bye.
I still remember what he told me.
He said, Travis, we were herebefore you got here, and we'll
be here a long time after you'regone.
And if you need to find anotherjob, then that's what you're
going to have to do.
Amanda (00:12):
Welcome back to the number one podcast that teaches
people how to get paid whatthey're worth.
I'm your host and resident humanbehavior nerd.
Super excited about today'sguest.
You guys, you should be too.
My guest today is none otherthan the infamous Travis
(00:35):
Lefever, serial entrepreneur whostarted and successfully exited
three businesses, ran corporateturnarounds for three years, and
has spoken in taught in eightdifferent countries.
You know, he's worked with somebig-name clients like Facebook,
Kraft, and Tyson foods, LOCTITE,every branch of the military,
Ripley's believe it or not, andNASA, that's just to name a few.
(00:58):
But mostly he's my husband.
He's my baby daddy and thebug-killer in our house.
So mainly that's what he does,especially since we're all
working from home these days,and its springtime.
There are a significant amountof bugs for some reason.
And we live in the woods, and wefound a snake the other day in
my garage after I set up myworkout equipment out there, and
(01:22):
I'm not excited about that.
Anyway.
So, if this interview gets alittle off the rails, like it
just kind of did.
It's because we've been coopedup together with my mom and our
four-year old daughter for threeweeks straight.
Nonetheless, he has a fewdecades of experience as in the
executive ranks, leading people,managing people, and negotiating
(01:47):
compensation.
And he agreed to come on theshow after I asked him multiple
times over coffee and stuff andbasically said that he had to.
So, he's going to share some ofthe things he's learned about
getting a raise with us.
So, thank you, Mr.
Lefever, for coming on the show.
How is your self-isolationgoing?
Travis (02:08):
It is good.
Good, and an interesting thing,of course, stuff we have never
seen before or done before.
A lot of things we're doing asyou know, we're working from
home, so at least we're beingproductive.
And if I have to be maroonedwith anyone, I can't think of
anyone else.
I'd rather be marooned with,you're my person.
Amanda (02:28):
Well, thanks.
Let's talk about getting a raiseat your job.
My first question, are youready?
What is your best advice forsomeone who feels undervalued at
work?
Travis (02:47):
Undervalued.
So that question hits at a lotof different levels.
I think in my experience,feeling undervalued has a lot
less to do with your paycheckand a lot more to do with the
leadership at your company or atyour office.
You can be making 10 bucks anhour, and a team culture makes
(03:10):
you feel valued and wanted, andyou want to get up and go to
work every day.
Or I've seen people making$500,000, and they're miserable
and feel like nobody cares aboutthem.
So, that's probably a little bitoff-topic, but if somebody came
to me and said, Hey, I don'tfeel valued at my job.
My best advice is to findanother team to play on.
(03:32):
That's a leadership failing aculture.
All the money in the worlddoesn't necessarily make people
feel valued, make them moremoney.
Obviously, it makes it moretolerable, though.
There's sometimes no way toescape a toxic workplace,
especially in the short term.
So, if you're just talking aboutgetting a raise, I could help a
(03:52):
little bit.
Is that what you want, is to gointo like the money part?
Amanda (03:56):
Yeah, I'm talking about the money part.
The money part.
Yeah, for sure.
Travis (04:00):
I remember my first real experience of asking for a raise
myself.
It's kind of a funny story.
I was working at the RaleighDurham airport here in North
Carolina, and I was co-oppingwith UPS.
And I remember I started at$7.15an hour, and I think it was back
then, minimum wage.
And, if you don't know what UPSdoes at the airports, on the
(04:25):
night shift, we load all theovernight packages from Piedmont
here into 757's, and i n DC-8's,and they fly up to Louisville,
Kentucky for the big overnightsort.
And then on the morning shift,those aircraft would come back
in, we would unload all the nextday air packages, and distribute
them all over North Carolina.
(04:45):
But it was really hard work inthe rain and snow.
We were out on the tarmac in thesummer, it was super-hot, and
after about a month of this Irealized that I felt that I was
out working everybody else, I'msweating, sweating my rear off
out there, an d I was alreadysupervising people.
I was really helping out.
(05:07):
And so, I went to my boss afterone of the shifts was over, I
was like, Hey Jerry, how am Idoing here?
It w as kind of setting him up,and of course, he told me how
good I was doing and how much heappreciated me.
He s aid some nice things and,an d t hen I delivered the blow,
right?
I was like, well, I've beenthinking this is really hard
work, and I think I should bemaking more money and if we
(05:30):
can't work something out thenI'm go ing t o h ave to go find
another job.
And I learned pretty quick, infact, I even still remember
whatever it is, 20-25 yearslater, I still remember what he
told me.
He said, Travis, we were herebefore you got here and we'll be
here a long time after you'regone, and if you need to find
(05:53):
another job then, that's whatyou're going to have to do.
So, my first piece of advicebefore I tell anybody how to get
a raise, I'll tell people hownot to get fired.
And so that piece of advice isnever to give your boss an u
ltimatum or try to takeadvantage of a bad situation.
And I think that that'sappropriate.
(06:13):
With COVID-19, what we're goingthrough now in a recession, a
lot of companies or p eoplemight feel, I've got my boss
right where I want th em, o vera barrel.
They need me here to se ll o rto help with operations or to
drive or whatever it is.
And it's a perfect time toreally get them for more money,
(06:36):
and it is not the perfect time.
It's a really bad time, ahorrible time to put anybody
over a barrel.
Amanda (06:45):
Well, and even for yourself too because of the
situation.
I mean, if you give them anultimatum and they're like,
okay, and you don't have anyother options.
Travis (06:52):
Yeah, yeah.
You gotta work out your options.
And that's something that I'vekind of been thinking about
since you asked me to come on.
What are people's options?
But I'm sure you want me to tellyou what I would do, right?
Not just what I wouldn't do.
Amanda (07:08):
Yes.
I liked the, would not, that washelpful right from the
beginning, especially in ourcurrent situation.
So, what would you do then?
Let's go that route.
Travis (07:21):
My second piece of advice and I've got some notes
here is to, first put togethersome hard data about what you
might be worth on the markettoday and what you're bringing
to that business in terms ofhard dollar productivity or
savings.
(07:41):
Then once you've gathered thatinformation to present that to
your boss with a reasonable askand not as an ultimatum, as a
request, I'm big on the three-sentence, ask.
And if you're not familiar withthe three sentence ask, it goes
something like this.
Get your pencil ready.
First, you've always been a goodboss.
(08:02):
This has always been a greatplace to work.
Second, that we work welltogether, and what I contribute
to the team, I've even made alist for us to talk about.
And then the third sentence is,if it makes sense based on what
I'm bringing to the business,I'd ask you to consider an
increase in my compensation of$10,000 a year.
(08:23):
Is that fair?
And that would be theconversation that I had with my
boss.
Amanda (08:30):
Nice.
Well, that sounds interesting,to say the least.
So, I hadn't heard about thethree sentence, ask.
But I want to go back just towhat you had said before that,
you said to gather data, likehard data.
So, where do you recommend thatpeople find that data?
(08:51):
First of all, that's comparable,just Google it, or is there
anywhere that they should lookspecifically?
Travis (08:58):
Yeah, Google is absolutely the best place.
There are tons of resources,tons of webinars on LinkedIn,
the Slide-Share app, and you canfind tons of salary surveys.
I got one the other day from aheadhunter, from a recruiter,
and they were like, here are allthe people that we've placed in
(09:18):
your executive positions inNorth Carolina.
And they had a giant list of thepositions and their salaries.
And to be honest, I was blownaway by what some people were
getting as executives here inNorth Carolina.
And it definitely informed, notjust me, but if I was asking
(09:41):
somebody for a raise, that wouldbe an incredible piece of paper
to slide across the table tothem.
Look what my skillset is worthon the market.
Amanda (09:55):
Hmm.
Okay.
So that's awesome.
Then let's move to the bigthree.
One thing that I saw that youhad said is the$10,000 a year,
right?
Is there a magic number thatyou're thinking?
Is there a percentage?
Should people go for the bignumber, or should they go for
the$1-$2 per hour raise?
(10:21):
What's the best approach youfeel like with something like
that?
Travis (10:26):
Everybody's going to be different?
I think it's all situational,but if I was making$40,000 a
year, I did some research andsaw that everybody else in my
geography had my job title wasmaking$50,000 a year.
I think a fair ask would be toincrease to at least the
mid-point or to maybe the ask,was to increase to the$50,000
(10:51):
and settle for the mid-point.
I think there's a lot ofnegotiating skills that we could
talk about at some point, abouthow to get to where, cause it's
all about being fair, right?
We want to feel like as humansthat we're being treated fairly
and a lot of the discontent andprobably a lot of the reason
(11:12):
people are listening to this isthat they don't feel they're
being paid what they're worth,that it's not fair to them.
And if they were being paidfairly, they'd look at things, a
lot different.
So, it's not about is it adollar, is it$5,000 or is it
$20,000 it's all about gettingto where you feel like you're
(11:33):
fairly compensated for yourcontributions.
Amanda (11:35):
Okay.
So, we were talking aboutearlier, the current climate and
not taking advantage of yourbosses or giving them an
ultimatum.
Do you feel this is a good timefor people to be asking for
raises or what do you think theapproach should be during
COVID-19 right now?
Travis (11:56):
Yeah, I think it's less about a good time or a bad time
to ask for a raise other than agood time to find that
information and to be preparedto have a conversation about
what's fair.
With the people who are makingdecisions about what you're
being compensated.
(12:16):
And eventually, I believe thatgetting a raise is a process.
It's not something that you hearme give advice, and you go have
that conversation next week orhear something on the podcast,
it sounds like a good idea andclicks off the podcast and walk
over to your boss's office.
That's not my advice.
Amanda (12:36):
Okay.
That's good clarification.
Travis (12:39):
Yeah, I think this is a very strategic thing.
This podcast you said in yourintro, it's for smart people who
have the ability to sort of planahead these conversations and
get ready for the comp review.
Get ready for their review everyyear.
And that's what I'm thinking ismy advice is how to get ready
(13:03):
for the review, not how to gotomorrow and get a raise.
Amanda (13:09):
Yeah.
So as part of getting ready forthe review, also have other
options, if they can't paycompensation, are you trying to
get another week of vacation orare you trying to get more sick
pay or is that something thatyou feel people should be
prepared with as well?
Travis (13:27):
Absolutely.
I see having and hear in mycareer people do not realize
that compensation, your totalcompensation is made up of
different things.
For example, it's not just yourpaycheck.
(13:49):
You could be paid$50,000 a year.
If you are also given a companycar, all of a sudden, you do not
have to pay out of your$50,000for gas, insurance, maintenance,
and car payment.
So, a company car could reallybe worth$10,000 a year in your
(14:13):
compensation.
And the same for extra vacationdays, right?
Days, you don't have to show upat work or don't have to
actually contribute paidvacations on top of comp, paying
health insurance for you ratherthan splitting it or making you
(14:36):
pay it.
That's all part of compensation.
And I don't feel peoplerecognize that enough.
So, a fair ask might be, I knowyou can't give me a raise right
now, but I know that you havecompany cars, and that's already
factored into the overhead.
And if you could give me acompany car that'd be a great
(14:57):
little bump to my compensationthat I think is fair.
Amanda (15:02):
Okay.
So having options is a good ideagoing in.
Travis (15:06):
Yeah.
Understand what compensation orwhat your company already does
and asking for things they'realready doing for other people.
It is almost like the easystreet.
If you're asking to use thecompany condo when only the
(15:29):
president gets or, our executiveteam gets to use that.
I mean, that's one thing that'sa much harder uphill climb.
Amanda (15:37):
I remember whenever I was, working in the restaurant
business, one of the other girlsthat was working counter with
me, she was making$2 more anhour than I was, and I found
this out.
And so, it made me so upset thatI felt like I was working harder
(15:57):
and longer, and I guess betterthan she was and she was making
more, and she wasn't reliable.
And I remember taking that kindof to my boss, but I'm not sure
if that's necessarily the bestapproach, right?
Hey, this person makes more thanI do, I should make as much as
(16:18):
them.
Is that kind of what we'resaying too?
Or no, not really?
Travis (16:24):
I think it's a much weaker argument.
Not that it wouldn't work orappeal to your boss's sense of
fairness.
But executives, businessmanagers, and owners, they
manage to budgets, a lot oftimes and they have terminology
(16:44):
that they use, and vocabularythat they use, and they
understand productivity andsavings and that kind of stuff.
I feel a much stronger argumentwould be for you to couch your
value and the fairness of yourcompensation in terms of how
you're impacting the bottomline.
So, if you can go in and say,look, I landed this client, and
(17:06):
that client contributes amillion dollars to our bottom
line every year, and I'm the onewho manages the relationship.
That's worth money.
That's hard compensation.
But to say, Jane makes$50,000,and I only make$46,000, I think
I deserve a raise up to$50,000now.
(17:31):
Yeah, that falls apart quickly.
There's no hard connection.
I'm suggesting that you go andcapture your contribution in
business terms that managersunderstand, and that the CFO
understands your company.
Because a lot of times your bossisn't the one making the
(17:51):
decision about yourcompensation.
They may love you to death andthink that you're worth millions
.
The last turnaround that I did,I had folks who were worth a
$100,000 only making$60,000 andtries as I might, and as much as
I would argue for those peopleto make even$80,000 or$90,000
that it just wasn't happening,the CFO didn't see it in terms
(18:16):
of contribution to compensatesomebody that much.
So, you really have to dial inwhat you're bringing to the
business in dollar terms, thelanguage they can understand and
present it, make thoseconnections super solid.
Amanda (18:34):
So that rolls me into my next question.
Sometimes, there are realfinancial constraints for
businesses.
They believe that you're worthmore money and they want to pay
you more money, but it's justnot in the cards for them at
that time.
How do you suggest kind ofwaiting through those types of
(18:57):
situations?
Travis (18:59):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I've been in that spot myself asa business owner, and want to
pay folks more money, realizingtheir contributions, and just
because we had a bad job or abad year or something, not being
able to really pay them whateven I thought they were worth.
So I think coming from aposition of someone who's asking
(19:23):
for a raise, if you're in asmall company, that has real
financial constraints, or maybehe's having a bad time, then you
really have to look fornon-financial bumps in the comp.
So that looks like time off,telecommuting, the company car.
I mean, paying the healthinsurance, things that don't
(19:44):
cost them as much as just givingyou a$10,000 raise in your
salary.
Because another thing I don'tthink people realize is why
those non-monetary raises areeasier is because every time
that a business or your bossgives you a raise, right?
Like$50-$55,000 or$50-$60,000 orwhatever it is, it costs them
(20:08):
10% more than the raise theygave you on their bottom line.
So, if a company gives you a$10,000 raise, it costs them
$11,000 to do that because ofemployer taxes, unemployment
taxes, workers comp, all thosethings are based on payroll
(20:29):
dollars.
They're a percentage of payrolldollars.
And so, the lower they can keeptheir payroll, it's kind of
leveraged to lower cost acrossthe board.
But asking for an extra week ofvacation is a no brainer for
them.
It costs them nothing.
Amanda (20:45):
Hmm.
It doesn't?
How does it not cost themnothing?
I don't understand.
Travis (20:51):
It cost them nothing, and they don't have to pay any
more money out the door thanwhat they've already been
paying.
Amanda (20:58):
So like paid time off almost?
Travis (21:00):
Yeah.
You're just not therecontributing to the company.
But that doesn't mean thatyou're not keeping up with your
clients or keeping up with yourdeadlines or still managing your
team.
You're just not necessarily inthe office 40 hours that week.
Yeah, absolutely.
Amanda (21:18):
But you'd still be preparing and everything to
leave for the week, and then youwould make up or pick up.
Travis (21:24):
Well, of course, you have to keep up with your
responsibilities.
We're not saying ditchcompletely, but in fact, you
could argue the fact, andthere's some research out there
that you're more productive.
Yeah.
You're more productive becausenow you have deadlines, and now
you have to catch up, and youwant to prepare to not be there.
But that's stretching, right?
(21:48):
A little bit.
Amanda (21:49):
Yeah.
I don't know.
There are some companies thathave moved to unlimited
vacation, just so that theirteams have the leeway.
Travis (21:59):
So I think that my contribution to the conversation
is that you have to do itcorrectly.
There are no ultimatums ortaking advantage of people.
You have to value your companyand those people who run it just
as much as you expect them tovalue you.
But there are typically gaps andespecially in small businesses
(22:24):
between market value and whatyou agreed to come on to work
for whatever it was last year ora month ago or ten years ago.
It's unlikely that your salaryhas kept up with the market
rates and there's some gap thatyou should understand how to go
(22:45):
and do the research and figureout what to ask for to make it
more fair to you.
And so, you feel fairlycompensated for your
contribution.
I think that's a relatively easything to do for most people.
Amanda (22:58):
All right.
So, I really appreciate youcoming on the show, Travis
LeFever.
Thanks.
You're a smart guy.
I think that you added a lot ofvalue and definitely gave some
great advice around getting araise.
How can people find you or askyou questions or if they need
(23:20):
any clarification about what wetalked about, where can they hit
you up?
Travis (23:24):
Oh yeah, happy to help in any way that I can.
You can find me on LinkedIn.
Travis LeFever, the one in NorthCarolina, not the one in
Colorado.
Amanda (23:35):
I didn't know there was a guy in Colorado?
Travis (23:39):
And unfortunately, he's also in construction.
So, a lot of folks get usconfused.
Or you could just connect withAmanda.
Of course, she'll get us hookedup.
But on your Instagram or RaiseUp podcast.com, of course, you
can just put, hey man, let metalk to Travis in the contact
(24:02):
email.
Amanda (24:04):
Oh, that's hilarious.
I will pass along theinformation very quickly.
Travis (24:08):
Or I can give you Amanda's cell phone number.
Amanda (24:13):
I guess you could give out my cell phone number.
I might not answer it, though,because I rarely answer numbers
that I don't know.
And I know you guys are the sameway.
So, don't judge me for notanswering telemarketers that
pretend that they're my friends.
Travis (24:27):
Maybe I can come back and tell some of my crazier
raise stories of people askingfor a raise when they went bad
and went good.
Amanda (24:35):
That would be awesome.
Those are my favorite stories,to be honest.
Travis (24:40):
Maybe in your Podcasts, you can have war story episodes,
like compilations.
Amanda (24:44):
Ooh, like a bonus.
And that's, and to be honest,that's how you get the bonus
ones is if you subscribe.
So subscribe to the podcast, oryou know, you can always like
and share and take a screenshotof this episode and put it on
your socials and tag me in itbecause I want to connect.
(25:07):
I want to see what you guys areliking, and not liking, let us
know.
This is a community, Raise UpNation, and we want to be in
this together.
So, thanks again, honey, forbeing on the show.
Travis (25:22):
My Pleasure.
Bye you guys.
Amanda (25:23):
Bye.
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