March 17, 2025 • 11 mins
The conversation in Christianity with our kids about romance is limited to rules on sex, and not much about what real love is and how we know it. This week we look to Shakespeare and Drake to learn about love.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ethan (00:00):
Raising joyful children in an angry world, a podcast
dedicated to faithful parentsnavigating their families
through a stormy culture
How do we get our kids ready forlove?
This is Raising Joyful Childrenin an Angry World.
It's interesting conversationover the years, so much of the
discussion I believe betweenparents and youth and church
(00:24):
leadership, when it comes todating and romance, it seems to
be centered on rules andcommitments involving sex.
And in some ways, it's almostlaw without gospel.
It's rules on what not to do.
Without much wisdom on what realromance and real love is,
(00:50):
there's not a lot of discussionsand books on this topic of
romantic relationships.
What are the conventions forcourting?
What are the, how does thiswork?
And you need this stuff ifyou're ever going to find a
future spouse.
I think this is an extremelydifficult topic because as the
(01:13):
dating age starts, parents arelikely to be in the busiest peak
of their career.
It could be in their midforties, mid fifties when
they've been promoted and a lotmore responsibility at the same
time, the kids are involved moreso on outside the home
(01:35):
activities than inside and yourinfluence as a parent is
diminishing leaves us with thisquestion is, Yeah.
Well, how will we gain thisneeded wisdom?
How in a culture so messed up onthe concept of romance that the
(01:56):
Congress of this country had topost a law prohibiting the
posting of lewd photos.
There are almost always theresult of revenge because of a
bad breakup.
I mean, even this week Ilistened to a particular radio
show and on this show, they takeyou to this live audience event
(02:19):
in Nashville and you meet somenew artists and some old artists
and it's a fun little show.
And they usually celebrate atleast with one member of the
audience.
It's usually somebody's birthdayor engagement.
This week, it was a woman'sdivorce.
What should have been a sadmoment in her life was presented
(02:43):
as a personal triumph of freedomand the host and the audience
all applauding.
And I mentioned this because,man, it's just another thing
that you look at and you say,this, this culture is really
messed up on this idea ofromance and, and what commitment
looks like and how it's supposedto work.
(03:04):
It's fascinating.
And he was reflecting on themerchant of Venice, Shakespeare.
I know this is kind of some oldschool stuff, but there's a line
in it that says, where is fancybread in the heart or in the
head?
And what it means by fancy iswhat do I fancy?
What do I like?
And the answer is it's genderedin the eye.
(03:24):
The playwright distinguishesbetween sensual attraction from
the eye and what real love is.
He says lust or infatuationfades because it's only a desire
for what's outside.
It's a one way thing.
But love involves the inside andit takes commitment and it takes
(03:45):
grace.
And I believe one of the reasonswe watch these old Elizabethan
era shows like Doubt and Abbeyis because the reality of love
and romance, the reality of it,the truth of it is explored
often in greater wit and wisdomin those shows.
Even in those old kind of sillyromantic comedies of the past,
(04:08):
right?
Girl meets boy, boy meets girl.
And there's that initialattraction of the eye.
And then there seems to be kindof this fun love relationship.
But is it infatuation or is itreal love?
And the couple begins todiscover some flaws, some
secrets, some selfishness aboutthe other person.
(04:30):
And it looks like therelationship is about to end.
And then usually if it's a happyending, the leading man
overcomes his ego, surrendershis need to have his own way,
and the woman learns to trusthim, and they begin together to
forgive the shortcomings of oneanother.
(04:50):
And the attraction moves to lovevia commitment, and it's all
wrapped up in a very mystery oflife.
The challenge for parents is howwe equip our kids beyond
slogans, beyond rules, beyondconventions of digital dating in
this country and give our kidssome wisdom to know what love is
(05:11):
and the willing to trust themystery of it that is described
in Proverbs.
I think first of all, Veryyoung, we've got to teach our
kids that love is defined byGod.
God is love and it's right outof the scripture and the stories
of the Bible teach us aboutGod's love for us and even in
relationship love.
(05:32):
Uh, such as the story of Ruth.
And then we need to start alsoin those young ages with stories
of princesses and princes, butone that I think is also in this
is the mouse and the frog, whichis a story about a mouse and
frog that tie their legstogether.
They're such great friends.
And it all ends when the frogjumps into the pond and drowns
the mouse.
(05:53):
It's all about not beingunequally yoked.
And I think at some point.
You're going to need a film, astory to show what love is and
challenge, what reality of loveis despite our flawed humanity.
We're going to need to see thatit's not going to be found as we
(06:13):
observe it.
If we don't see grace andforgiveness and commitment in
the love story, I think that'ssomething that we have to take
time to include in what we'rediscussing.
There's, there's a point, I'llsay this one as well, that we
need some conventions,requirements of dating our sons
or daughters, meet the family,the hours that are kept, some
(06:37):
accountability to parental andbiblical authority.
And then I would suggest justinviting you to explore the
kinds of music, film,literature, entertainment that
are filling their heads and havediscussions about, do those
themes Do they work on what truelove is or are they merely
lustful?
(06:57):
Are they merely building,selfishness?
One of the interesting,songwriters and artists that I
propose to you is Drake.
And you're probably thinking, Ohmy gosh, what, uh, you know,
where does a rap artist get it?
But he has a song called keepthe family close and he refers
to shallow people in his life.
(07:18):
That's let's be friends people.
He says, they're not like thefamily.
He was raised in that loved himno matter what.
And he talks about in this song.
The need for trust.
Where's the commitment?
He talks about how people takesides and they let their pride
um, go against him instead ofbeing for there for another
(07:39):
person when they need it andputting their pride aside.
He speaks about the ficklenessof these fair weather
relationships and he evenspeculates as to what is
happening in the spiritualworld.
What am I supposed to belearning from this?
See, even in this world of rap,which is often dominated by
(08:00):
every wrong understanding ofromance and sexuality, even in
this sometimes demented genre,the writer is asking the
profound questions.
These are the questions that Ithink we have to help answer.
Where is unconditional lovefound?
It's found in Jesus.
Where will you find someone tolove you no matter what?
(08:22):
Well, God has to give it.
How do you know the differencebetween infatuation and love?
Well, it comes down to when yourneeds and their needs and
reaction to when someone needsto help the other person and go
the extra mile.
How does that reaction work?
And then I think we have toteach them to ask the question
(08:46):
as they're in these datingrelationships, are you in an if
you relationship or are you inan I'm committed?
If you relationships are, if youplease me, then I'm in, this is
a relationship and it's almostalways self centered.
I'm committed is a relationshipwhen some grace has to be
(09:10):
extended with wisdom.
You got to watch because gracecould be wasted.
Grace can be thrown away and notreciprocated.
That's not what we're talkingabout, but a committed
relationship where grace ismutually extended, forgiveness
is mutually extended, and peopleare actually committed where
there's more than just what theeye sees, but it's what the
(09:32):
heart sees.
I believe all of life comes downto what we trust.
Two people that have a greatrelationship have to first trust
God, and then they have to trusteach other in a full surrender
of the heart.
And there's a limit to what wecan teach and learn in this
(09:52):
topic, so all of it has to bebathed in prayer.
When parents give the talk tothe son and the daughter about
sexuality, it won't be completewithout providing them direction
and wisdom as to what true lovelooks like, how to know when it
is real, and how to know whenit's counterfeit.
(10:15):
There is yet another reason whyyour kids need Jesus and they
need a church.
They need to have thisrevelation delivered to them as
real love is described.
They need to be in a communitywhere other young adults also
have this wisdom and who arefilled with the Holy Spirit.
We start young with the storiesabout romance, about the love of
(10:38):
God, and as they grow older, wehave to take the time to discuss
what real romance is.
Use the film, use the music ofthe day, and in that point,
you're really equipping a youngperson to find the spouse that
God has given them.
The ultimate battle for theheart and soul is a fight for
(11:01):
identity.
Our king invites our kids toknow who they are, what to
believe, and where they belong.
Until next time, let's rememberthe words for theirs is the
Kingdom of Heaven.
Raising joyful children in an angry world, a podcast
dedicated to faithful parentsnavigating their families
through a stormy culture
How do we get our kids ready forlove?
This is Raising Joyful Childrenin an Angry World.
It's interesting conversationover the years, so much of the
discussion I believe betweenparents and youth and church
(00:24):
leadership, when it comes todating and romance, it seems to
be centered on rules andcommitments involving sex.
And in some ways, it's almostlaw without gospel.
It's rules on what not to do.
Without much wisdom on what realromance and real love is,
(00:50):
there's not a lot of discussionsand books on this topic of
romantic relationships.
What are the conventions forcourting?
What are the, how does thiswork?
And you need this stuff ifyou're ever going to find a
future spouse.
I think this is an extremelydifficult topic because as the
(01:13):
dating age starts, parents arelikely to be in the busiest peak
of their career.
It could be in their midforties, mid fifties when
they've been promoted and a lotmore responsibility at the same
time, the kids are involved moreso on outside the home
(01:35):
activities than inside and yourinfluence as a parent is
diminishing leaves us with thisquestion is, Yeah.
Well, how will we gain thisneeded wisdom?
How in a culture so messed up onthe concept of romance that the
(01:56):
Congress of this country had topost a law prohibiting the
posting of lewd photos.
There are almost always theresult of revenge because of a
bad breakup.
I mean, even this week Ilistened to a particular radio
show and on this show, they takeyou to this live audience event
(02:19):
in Nashville and you meet somenew artists and some old artists
and it's a fun little show.
And they usually celebrate atleast with one member of the
audience.
It's usually somebody's birthdayor engagement.
This week, it was a woman'sdivorce.
What should have been a sadmoment in her life was presented
(02:43):
as a personal triumph of freedomand the host and the audience
all applauding.
And I mentioned this because,man, it's just another thing
that you look at and you say,this, this culture is really
messed up on this idea ofromance and, and what commitment
looks like and how it's supposedto work.
(03:04):
It's fascinating.
And he was reflecting on themerchant of Venice, Shakespeare.
I know this is kind of some oldschool stuff, but there's a line
in it that says, where is fancybread in the heart or in the
head?
And what it means by fancy iswhat do I fancy?
What do I like?
And the answer is it's genderedin the eye.
(03:24):
The playwright distinguishesbetween sensual attraction from
the eye and what real love is.
He says lust or infatuationfades because it's only a desire
for what's outside.
It's a one way thing.
But love involves the inside andit takes commitment and it takes
(03:45):
grace.
And I believe one of the reasonswe watch these old Elizabethan
era shows like Doubt and Abbeyis because the reality of love
and romance, the reality of it,the truth of it is explored
often in greater wit and wisdomin those shows.
Even in those old kind of sillyromantic comedies of the past,
(04:08):
right?
Girl meets boy, boy meets girl.
And there's that initialattraction of the eye.
And then there seems to be kindof this fun love relationship.
But is it infatuation or is itreal love?
And the couple begins todiscover some flaws, some
secrets, some selfishness aboutthe other person.
(04:30):
And it looks like therelationship is about to end.
And then usually if it's a happyending, the leading man
overcomes his ego, surrendershis need to have his own way,
and the woman learns to trusthim, and they begin together to
forgive the shortcomings of oneanother.
(04:50):
And the attraction moves to lovevia commitment, and it's all
wrapped up in a very mystery oflife.
The challenge for parents is howwe equip our kids beyond
slogans, beyond rules, beyondconventions of digital dating in
this country and give our kidssome wisdom to know what love is
(05:11):
and the willing to trust themystery of it that is described
in Proverbs.
I think first of all, Veryyoung, we've got to teach our
kids that love is defined byGod.
God is love and it's right outof the scripture and the stories
of the Bible teach us aboutGod's love for us and even in
relationship love.
(05:32):
Uh, such as the story of Ruth.
And then we need to start alsoin those young ages with stories
of princesses and princes, butone that I think is also in this
is the mouse and the frog, whichis a story about a mouse and
frog that tie their legstogether.
They're such great friends.
And it all ends when the frogjumps into the pond and drowns
the mouse.
(05:53):
It's all about not beingunequally yoked.
And I think at some point.
You're going to need a film, astory to show what love is and
challenge, what reality of loveis despite our flawed humanity.
We're going to need to see thatit's not going to be found as we
(06:13):
observe it.
If we don't see grace andforgiveness and commitment in
the love story, I think that'ssomething that we have to take
time to include in what we'rediscussing.
There's, there's a point, I'llsay this one as well, that we
need some conventions,requirements of dating our sons
or daughters, meet the family,the hours that are kept, some
(06:37):
accountability to parental andbiblical authority.
And then I would suggest justinviting you to explore the
kinds of music, film,literature, entertainment that
are filling their heads and havediscussions about, do those
themes Do they work on what truelove is or are they merely
lustful?
(06:57):
Are they merely building,selfishness?
One of the interesting,songwriters and artists that I
propose to you is Drake.
And you're probably thinking, Ohmy gosh, what, uh, you know,
where does a rap artist get it?
But he has a song called keepthe family close and he refers
to shallow people in his life.
(07:18):
That's let's be friends people.
He says, they're not like thefamily.
He was raised in that loved himno matter what.
And he talks about in this song.
The need for trust.
Where's the commitment?
He talks about how people takesides and they let their pride
um, go against him instead ofbeing for there for another
(07:39):
person when they need it andputting their pride aside.
He speaks about the ficklenessof these fair weather
relationships and he evenspeculates as to what is
happening in the spiritualworld.
What am I supposed to belearning from this?
See, even in this world of rap,which is often dominated by
(08:00):
every wrong understanding ofromance and sexuality, even in
this sometimes demented genre,the writer is asking the
profound questions.
These are the questions that Ithink we have to help answer.
Where is unconditional lovefound?
It's found in Jesus.
Where will you find someone tolove you no matter what?
(08:22):
Well, God has to give it.
How do you know the differencebetween infatuation and love?
Well, it comes down to when yourneeds and their needs and
reaction to when someone needsto help the other person and go
the extra mile.
How does that reaction work?
And then I think we have toteach them to ask the question
(08:46):
as they're in these datingrelationships, are you in an if
you relationship or are you inan I'm committed?
If you relationships are, if youplease me, then I'm in, this is
a relationship and it's almostalways self centered.
I'm committed is a relationshipwhen some grace has to be
(09:10):
extended with wisdom.
You got to watch because gracecould be wasted.
Grace can be thrown away and notreciprocated.
That's not what we're talkingabout, but a committed
relationship where grace ismutually extended, forgiveness
is mutually extended, and peopleare actually committed where
there's more than just what theeye sees, but it's what the
(09:32):
heart sees.
I believe all of life comes downto what we trust.
Two people that have a greatrelationship have to first trust
God, and then they have to trusteach other in a full surrender
of the heart.
And there's a limit to what wecan teach and learn in this
(09:52):
topic, so all of it has to bebathed in prayer.
When parents give the talk tothe son and the daughter about
sexuality, it won't be completewithout providing them direction
and wisdom as to what true lovelooks like, how to know when it
is real, and how to know whenit's counterfeit.
(10:15):
There is yet another reason whyyour kids need Jesus and they
need a church.
They need to have thisrevelation delivered to them as
real love is described.
They need to be in a communitywhere other young adults also
have this wisdom and who arefilled with the Holy Spirit.
We start young with the storiesabout romance, about the love of
(10:38):
God, and as they grow older, wehave to take the time to discuss
what real romance is.
Use the film, use the music ofthe day, and in that point,
you're really equipping a youngperson to find the spouse that
God has given them.
The ultimate battle for theheart and soul is a fight for
(11:01):
identity.
Our king invites our kids toknow who they are, what to
believe, and where they belong.
Until next time, let's rememberthe words for theirs is the
Kingdom of Heaven.
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