February 2, 2024 • 42 mins
Kaitlin is back! This time she's here to talk about her brand new children's book Kindness Is. Listen in as we discuss what kindness is and how we can help our kids move forward with true kindness.
Kaitlin will be in Team Kind Humans on February 6th! She will be sharing her book, the mission of Kind Cotton, and kid-friendly ways to give back through books. If you have an elementary school-aged child who would like to join, I'll send you the Zoom link for free! Email me at Katie@teamkindhumans.com and let me know if you'd like to come. You can find out more about the membership at teamkindhumans.com/membership.
Follow @kindcotton on Instagram
Find out more at www.kindcotton.com
Start your KindSchooling journey today. Head to www.teamkindhumans.com or follow me on Instagram @teamkindhumans!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Katie Doughty (00:03):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the raising
humans podcast. I'm your host,Katie Doughty. And today I have
my very first repeat guest onthe show. Caitlin Johnstone is
here from cotton. But today weare diving into her brand new
children's book kindness is. AndI'm excited for you to hear this
conversation and get a behindthe scenes look at this book,
(00:26):
because it does a really greatjob illustrating what exactly is
kindness. And Caitlin kind oftakes us on a journey of nice
versus kind. And that sometimeskind is not always nice. And
that blew my mind when I firstheard this concept. But it's
something to talk about. Andit's something to keep talking
(00:47):
about and teaching our children.
And this book does a beautifuljob doing just that. And you're
going to want a copy becauseit's gorgeous. So head to kind
cotton.com and you can orderyour own copy. She also has
educator packs with resourcesfor teachers that you can
purchase there as well. Andwhile you're there, check out
her shop because she has reallycool clothing that you are going
(01:08):
to want to take a look at. Sohead over to comb cotton.com,
grab your book, grab a coolkindness t shirt, and every
purchase made books or clothing.
She donates an inclusive bookback tickets, which is pretty
cool. And you'll hear all aboutthat in today's episode. Also, I
wanted to let you know thatCaitlyn is actually coming into
(01:29):
team came humans next week onTuesday to talk about cotton
cotton and her book with thekids. And she has a beautiful
presentation for us. And thenthe kids will have an
opportunity to talk to her abouther book about cutting cotton in
ways that they can help getbooks into other kids hands,
because it's an important thingfor us to do. So I'm actually
(01:52):
offering this one for free. Ifyou want to come in, just email
me Katie at team kind humans.comor find me on Instagram, send me
a message. And I will send youthe Zoom link. If you have an
elementary aged kiddo that wouldbe interested in coming and
learning from Caitlin. Just letme know, I'll send you the link.
We'd love to have you. So headover to Team comm
(02:13):
humans.com/membership. If youwant more information about
that, otherwise, email me I'llsend you the link. And I'll
hopefully see you Tuesdayafternoon. So without further
ado, please welcome Caitlyn.
Hello, Miss Caitlyn. Welcomeback to the raising kind humans
Podcast. I'm so happy. You arethe very first repeat guests on
(02:35):
the podcast.
Kaitlin Johnstone (02:39):
I'm so excited and so honored by that.
Thank you so much.
Katie Doughty (02:43):
Yeah, I'm really excited that I get to have you
back because you have a new bookout kindness is and I'm thrilled
to dive into this book with youbecause it's absolutely
beautiful. But just in case. Sowe interviewed together before
and we talked all about cottoncotton. So in case people don't
know what cotton cotton is, canyou give us just a little
(03:03):
background about what that is?
And then we'll dive into yourbook? Yeah, absolutely.
Kaitlin Johnstone (03:08):
So my partner and I, my husband, Kevin and I
started kind cotton about sevenyears ago, I was a kindergarten
teacher in the state of Florida.
And I was noticing a seriouslack of access to books. So I
would take my students to thebook fair, many of them couldn't
purchase books. So I would buybooks for them. around the
holidays, I would find ways toyou know, grab those dollar
(03:32):
scholastic books. And then itjust clicked to me one day that
there was something that wecould potentially do about this.
And I rushed home, open up thedoor, ran into my husband, who
was I believe my fiancee at thetime, maybe? I don't know, all
the years blend together. And Isaid I have this wild idea. But
(03:54):
hear me out. I would love tostart a small clothing company.
And then with every singlepurchase, we donate a book to a
child. And he was all in and nowseven years later, we have
donated over 143,000 bucksticket. I know it's wild. Wait
143,000
Katie Doughty (04:20):
Incredible. Yeah.
Oh my gosh, that number is sohuge. And I know you're on a
mission for a million. Is thattrue? We
Kaitlin Johnstone (04:27):
are and you know, head. I said this when we
started seven years ago when wemaybe donated 30 bucks a month.
I would have been like no like,Caitlin, you are crazy. That is
impossible. But now that we'vegone as far as we have and done
the things that we've done. I'mtrying to dream big, though,
Katie Doughty (04:49):
and why not? You can totally do this. Yeah,
absolutely. I mean, your messageis just beautiful and so needed
in the world. And I know for me,I love supporting companies. I
give back in some way,especially when it's related to
kids. Again, easy no brainerpurchase for me, because I feel
like it's a double, I get twofor one. So I love that that's
(05:11):
your mission. So now you donatebooks to kids, can you tell us a
little bit about your free bookfairs? Yes, they
Kaitlin Johnstone (05:18):
have been the most exciting thing. And I'm
just like, so happy to be backin person. Because to make like
a really long history and storyas short as possible, when we
first started, I wanted ourimpact to be very hands on. So
when we initially planned thisall out, I started a reading
program with a local elementaryschool, I would go once a month,
(05:41):
there were about 30 kids in theprogram, I would read them a
book, and we would make a craftand have snacks together. And
then at the end of that everysingle child was able to leave
with a copy of the book that Idid my lesson on. Fast forward
to the pandemic. And thatstopped, and I couldn't go into
schools anymore. We then movedfrom Florida to Maryland. And
(06:05):
then just in the past, I guesstwo years now, we started
hosting free book fairs. Sogoing back to my memory of
bringing my kids to theScholastic Book Fair, having
them experience such sadness,like, just think of bringing a
five year old to theseincredibly decorated, elaborate
(06:29):
book fairs with all of thesesuper cool things, and then
telling them, oh, no, sorry, youcan't get anything like it is.
It's traumatic, it's terrible.
So I said, You know what, I wantto start going into schools, the
week or two after the ScholasticBook Fair, so that teachers can
tell their students Hey, you maynot have been able to get a book
today, but I promise you, thereis a company coming in in a week
(06:52):
or two, they're called concotton, they are going to bring
1000s of books. And you canchoose any book that you would
like. So whenever I reach out toschools, they're like, Wait,
this is like, what's the catch?
This is free. And I'm like is aslong as I can drive to you, as
long as I can pack up my car,with the box, drive there and be
(07:14):
back within one day, then yes,it is absolutely free. And we've
probably done about 20 of thoseso far. We do one a month. And
the kids are always so excitedwhen they come in. And they hear
that they get to take any bookthat they would like that
interests them home for free,courtesy of everything that we
(07:36):
sell
Katie Doughty (07:37):
on our site. It's just so beautiful. Because I've
been there too. I have takenfirst and second graders to book
fairs and watch them watch otherpeople purchase and come home.
And they make it so enticingbecause not only do they have
books, they also have like thepencils and the erasers and the
posters and all the like funthings. Yeah. And having them
(08:01):
walk out not being able topurchase anything is absolutely
heartbreaking. Yeah. And it's sofrustrating. And so for you to
swoop in and come in and say youknow what your choose whatever
you like, that's just such abeautiful mission. And I love
that that's what you're, that'swhat you're putting out in the
world. And what's what you'rebringing to kids, at schools,
and so props to you, my
Kaitlin Johnstone (08:23):
friend. Thank you.
Katie Doughty (08:24):
Amazing. So let's dive into your kindness, his
book, tell me how this started.
Where did this originate from?
When did you get the seed ofthis idea? And then kind of the
journey behind that?
Kaitlin Johnstone (08:36):
Yeah, I mean, it really originated with kind
cotton, right? The shirt thatyou and I are both wearing right
now is our most popular item.
It's called our kindness is tand we put out a request to our
followers years ago, about whatdoes kindness mean to you? And
we said, you can only give usone word, we know that it's
(08:56):
gonna be really hard. But if youhad to sum up kindness by saying
one word, what would it be? Soat the time, we were shocked,
like it was the most feedback wehad ever received on anything,
we got hundreds of submissions.
And we kept seeing these fewwords coming up over and over
(09:16):
and over again. And we alsochose the ones that were very
near and dear to our mission. Sothe words are love, empathy,
compassion, inclusion, justice,and kindness. That's what we
believe, makes up kindness. Sothen I started having these
conversations, and featuringpeople on my page with their
(09:38):
definition of kindness, and justreally like diving in on these
deep, meaningful, multifacetedconversations surrounding
kindness, and it being more thanniceness. So I'm sure you can
understand this but having beenan educator, children's books
just mean the world to me, andthen being in All the work that
(10:00):
we do, I've met so manyillustrators and, and fellow
authors and editors andpublishers, and just, there was
a wealth of knowledge there. SoI was sitting on my couch one
day. And I love writing, likewriting is my therapy, I just,
it's my go to, for anything andeverything. And I sat down, and
(10:23):
I opened up my computer, and Iwrote this manuscript, about
kindness for children in like,10 minutes, and I put it away.
Like, I was like, Okay, this isnever gonna be anything, put it
away. I was about three yearsago, opened my computer back up,
(10:44):
because my best friend was like,Hey, did he say we're like
working on a book? What happenedwith that? I'm like, You're
right, I should, I shouldrevisit this. So I opened it
back up, look through it, didsome editing on my own, sent it
to my friend who is anincredibly talented illustrator.
She loved it, and said, I wantto do this with you. And here we
(11:09):
are three years later, with thisbook, that is, what I am now
saying is like, the heart andsoul of me and our company, and
everything I value.
Katie Doughty (11:22):
Oh, my goodness, it is and reading through it. I
was just like, oh, this is SoCaitlin. And it's so it's such a
perfect thing to hand over whensomebody's like, but what is
kindness? Like? What does thatmean to you? And why? Like you
and you see your shirts, youknow, with all of those words
like what does that mean? Andhow do you explain that to a
kid, you could just hand themthis book, pull them up on your
(11:43):
lap, read this and chat aboutit. And it makes it so simple
and meaningful. And impactful.
And I love that you were able tojust kind of tie it up in a
little bow and have been able topresent the kids. It's just
gorgeous.
Kaitlin Johnstone (11:57):
Thank you.
Yeah, that was something thatonce we really started getting
getting into it. Again, havingbeen a kindergarten teacher
specifically, we would have likeweek long celebrations. Now
kindness. And typically, whenyou ask a child, what does
kindness mean to you, they comeup with amazing things. But they
are things that are very muchniceness and not necessarily
(12:22):
kindness. So using your manners,of course, that is a great thing
to be doing, holding the dooropen for a friend. Another
amazing thing to be doing, Ialways say never want to take
away from niceties becausethey're important, right? Like,
my friend could send me a cup ofcoffee on a day when I am just
(12:42):
like, at my breaking point. Andit is the best thing ever. But I
also think it's important thatwe extend those conversations
and look to things like empathy,and inclusion, and justice and
in using our voice. And this isa very simplistic way for a
child to understand what thoseterms mean.
Katie Doughty (13:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I don't I don't remember ifwe talked about this last time,
but um, I read the book, deepkindness by Houston craft. And
he did yeah, yeah. Okay. Ialways pull back to that book,
because it's, it was so eyeopening for me about what, what
actually is the definition ofkindness. And yes, kindness can
be uncomfortable. And it can bedifficult. And it's something
(13:26):
that we're constantly workingtowards, you don't just become
kind, right? Like, there's somuch more to this deep kindness.
And I think you've packaged itin a kid's book to help kind of
lead the way in thoseconversations about what this
deep kindness actually means.
And that's so helpful, becauseI'm always looking to children's
(13:47):
books to figure out how do I saythis in a kid friendly way so
that they can start learning nowand not in their 30s? Like, I am
trying to figure this out? Whatdoes this actually mean? And so,
I just love that you've naileddown those topics. And I feel
like as a classroom teacher, andnow as a homeschooling mom, I
(14:08):
could spend months on this, butwe can pull it out. Okay, let's
talk about just compassion.
Yeah, what is that we couldspend a whole week on that,
like, let's talk about this.
Okay, now, let's go on tojustice. Let's go on to
inclusion. What do those meanand being able to just like,
dive into those topics? It'ssuch a good jumping off point.
Yeah.
Kaitlin Johnstone (14:28):
100%. And when we when my illustrator and
I collaborated on everything, wereally wanted to have this book,
be a discussion piece and offerlike companion projects and
crafts and writing pieces andprompts. And she made so many
(14:50):
incredible resources to go withus. And that is exactly how we
thought it would play out likethis would be almost like a unit
of study for are a month, twomonths, it is something that you
can definitely keep going backto and really dive in.
Katie Doughty (15:06):
Are those resources available for teachers
and parents? Where can they findthem?
Kaitlin Johnstone (15:10):
Yeah, they're on our website, which is where
you can also find the book, weobviously are on Amazon, but I'm
sure is, you know, it is alwaysbetter if you can purchase
directly from our website. Andsince we ship everything
ourselves and have them inhouse, shipping is probably
nearly as quick as Amazon likeyou're not going to get in a day
or two. But we're pretty fast.
So it's on our website, kindcotton.com. And then you also,
(15:34):
we have various bundles. So youcan get the educator bundle,
which includes a copy of thebook, a sticker sheet, to give
stickers out to kids in yourclass, and all of the
companionship, worksheets,writing prompts, crafts that go
along with it. Oh, I love that.
Katie Doughty (15:56):
I wanted to point out something that I saw on
here, one of the adults iswearing a t shirt and it says
kindness is a verb. It's one ofmy favorites. And I did a craft
fair one year and I made somelike a bag or something and says
kindness is a verb. And thisolder lady came up to me and she
she was like staring at it. Andthen she looked at me and she's
(16:16):
like, that's not right. And Iwas like, No, it's a phrase
because kindness is action. Likeyou have to take action and do
something. And she was like,okay, but you're just confusing
children. So, isn't that sointeresting? But my immediate
thought was like, Oh, no. And Iwent internally, like, Am I
(16:39):
doing this wrong, but it justmade me think of how one
person's comment can change theway you're thinking. Because
when I put it out there, I was,like, this is so cute, and it's
so good. It's gonna be actionsteps, and like, kids are gonna
want to take action to be kind.
And then that one comment, madeit like, I second guessed
everything. And then I was like,Is this am I confusing children.
(17:01):
And so I was just wondering ifyou can speak a little bit to
that, about how we can help kindof stand strong in our beliefs
about what kindness is, andmaybe not shrink to comments
from other people.
Kaitlin Johnstone (17:16):
So I think I love this question. And I feel
like we could have an entirepodcast alone on this question.
Because there's a lot of thingsat play here, right. But the
number one thing that I alwaysgo back to is society is set up
specifically for women. To benice, right to go along with the
(17:37):
status quo to, to listen and notuse our voices loudly and not
stand in our convictions. And Ialways say that I am so grateful
that I had parents, who didn'tcall me loud. They called me
passionate. They didn't call meargumentative. They called me
(18:00):
curious. They stood behind who Iwas as a, as a young little girl
who was very like, bold andexcited and passionate. And I
think that's a huge reason as towhy I'm the person that I am
today. Now, I get a lot ofterrible things said to me on
(18:21):
the internet, as I'm sure manyof us do. And if I listened to
every single one of thosecomments, and I took every
single one of those comments toheart, and I second guessed,
every single thing that we did,then we wouldn't be where we are
today. And we wouldn't behosting the free book fairs. And
we wouldn't have provided143,000 books to kids, and we
(18:44):
wouldn't have built thecommunity that we built. And
that's not to say that it's notincredibly uncomfortable,
sometimes anxiety producing.
However, I always try to havethis end goal in mind. And
fortunately, I have surroundedmyself with so many beautifully
creative, passionate like mindedpeople that I have them to turn
(19:07):
to in times of support. I thinkI think it's really these are
systems that have been put inplace that are working to keep
us quiet, right and to, tosilence us and to feel isolated
and like we don't have communityand we're only one person doing
(19:31):
these things. And I think thebeauty of finding your voice is
really freeing. So yeah, justfinding people that you can
connect with because communityis more important now than than
ever.
Katie Doughty (19:49):
Oh so much. Yeah, absolutely. And I like that as a
Yeah, relying on the communitythat you've built, and looking
for that support when you needit and then supporting others.
when they need it to and justshowing up for them, I think
it's really important. Thistopic of nice versus kind is so
interesting to me. And I do adeep dive into this in the book
(20:11):
that I'm writing. And I hadnever really thought about it
before, until I startedresearching it, and how we are
absolutely trained to be nice.
But being nice is just a way ofgetting through to get what you
need later. And it's sointeresting when you break it
(20:31):
down, like if you are nice toyour boss, you're being nice to
get to move forward in yourcompany or to get ahead in your
job. Whereas being kind iscoming from a genuine place of
wanting to help someone else.
And I'm just curious if you canspeak a little bit more to the
(20:54):
difference between nice andkind. And how do we help our
kids understand that
Kaitlin Johnstone (21:00):
you have for sure, I mean, this is something
that I talked about all thetime. And I love it. Again, we
could talk about this for hours,I feel like but one of the
things that I always say isbeing nice again, going back to
that holding the door open for afriend, but being kind is paving
the way so that doors remainopen for opportunities for all
(21:23):
people, right? Being nice issaying you love and support your
LGBTQ plus family members. Butbeing kind is voting for the
people who are going to protectthem. It is standing up at those
school board meetings sayingthat reading a bulk about a
(21:45):
child who has two moms is justshowing a different family
dynamic. There is nothing wrongwith that. And if anything, all
it does is build empathy for alldifferent families. Right? So it
is going that that extra mile.
It's kind of like not onlytalking the talk, but walking
the walk. And that's where Ifeel like kindness comes in. And
(22:08):
kindness is not always nice,right? Like, kindness is not
always status quo. Kindness isnot always quiet. Sometimes we
have to be calm, like you saidearlier, very uncomfortable when
we're being routed in true
Katie Doughty (22:27):
kindness. Oh, that's so good. Kindness is not
always nice. So much because youdon't you think of the two as
synonyms, like they are the sameword. Oftentimes, that's what we
are taught. And so when you arenow extracting that and saying
no, actually, they might beopposites. That's such a big,
(22:50):
cool, bold statement.
Kaitlin Johnstone (22:52):
Yeah, mind blowing, right?
Katie Doughty (22:54):
It really is mind blowing. What are some of the
things maybe you say toyourself, when you are
uncomfortable in what you arestanding for? Or what you need
to do to be loud? Like, how doyou build up that courage? Or
what could we say to our kids,to help them be courageous and
kindness.
Kaitlin Johnstone (23:14):
So hard, it goes back to looking at myself
as a young child, right. And Imean, as a kid, we're definitely
uncomfortable in certainsituations, you know, we don't
want to ruffle any featherseither. We don't want to be the
brunt of any jokes. It's it'shard to stand tall and
(23:35):
courageous and maybe stand up toa bully or believe in the things
that you believe in and believein them 110% And making that
known. And I think one of thebest things that we can do is
(23:55):
continue to let children knowthat they are seen and then they
are loved, and they are valuedfor who they are, that they are
brave, that they are making adifference. I think it's
important to model thatbehavior. Right? Like it's one
thing to read inclusive books tomy daughter. It is a whole other
(24:20):
thing to actually live thatexperience. Yeah, right? To have
her intentionally go to a schoolwhere they are also teaching
these things, to have herintentionally go to a school
where her teacher, one of herteachers is trans to have
different friends come into ourhome, so that she is around
(24:44):
people from all different walksof life, right. So I think one
of the biggest things we coulddo is model that for them and
model using our voice and alsotell them that it's not always
easy, right? Invite them in inan age approach. right away
about some of maybe the harmfulthings that have been said to me
(25:05):
or her dad about the work thatwe do. And that what matters at
the end of the day, is thatwe're standing up for humanity
and people, and the people whowe love. And when I lay my head
down at night, and when I lay myhead down, hopefully years from
now, at the end of this crazy,beautiful life, I will have been
(25:29):
able to say that I stood up forthe things that matter the most
to me.
Katie Doughty (25:33):
I love that, because our kids are always
always always watching. They arewatching, whether we want them
to or not, they know Yes. Andthey are going to start modeling
themselves after US based onwhat we are doing. So modeling
is one of the biggest things wecan do for them. And I think
that I liked what you said aboutinviting them into conversation.
(25:56):
So not only are you doing thesethings, but then at the dinner
table having a conversationabout it, hey, I did this thing
today. This was really hard forme. And it was really
challenging. And then I got thismean comment, but here's what I
did. Or here's how I feel aboutthat, or here's what I'm going
to do next time. And justincluding them through that
whole process, I think is soridiculously powerful.
Kaitlin Johnstone (26:19):
Mm hmm. It's a teacher mindset, right? Yeah.
Being able to talk out loudabout the things that you're
doing, while you're modelingthat for them as it is it is
really powerful.
Katie Doughty (26:31):
I think you also hit on something really cool
that like we know as parents,but maybe we need to do a better
job at is how you said yourparents didn't call you loud,
the ecology passionate, and theydidn't, you know, call you
argumentative. They called you.
I'm curious, right? And soturning those things that
sometimes can be reallychallenging as a parent, when
(26:53):
your child can be very loudabout things or very opinionated
about things, and turning theminto a positive instead of like,
Oh, she's so bossy. No, she'sgonna run the world. Like I
trust her to run the world. Andbeing able to put that type of
confidence into your child touse their gifts, because those
are gifts, even if we feel likemaybe they're they're difficult
(27:16):
to handle. But they're the giftsthat the child has been given to
be able to empower them to usethose gifts,
Kaitlin Johnstone (27:24):
I think is so important. Yeah, me too. 100%.
Because in school, it was notalways that way. Right. So like,
thankfully, I had my parentsbehind me, and kind of rooting
me on and knowing that, like, Ican remember my mom telling a
teacher once like, oh, well,maybe she'll make a great lawyer
(27:47):
one day, you know, and it's notlike they allowed me to be
incredibly disrespectful, where,you know, it was a lot of it was
typical child behavior, thatsome teachers maybe didn't know
how to connect and, quote,unquote, handle, which I think
(28:09):
was when I was a teacher, it'svery much the reason why I was
able to and I'm doing airquotes, handle the more
difficult children, right,because I, I saw myself in them
and they weren't difficult.
There was just things that theyneeded to express, or they maybe
needed me to tell theminformation in a different way.
(28:31):
Or maybe it just was somethingthat wasn't engaging enough for
them. And we needed to find thatthing that was really going to
spark their interest. So yeah, I
Katie Doughty (28:44):
think that's huge. Yeah, yep. Looking at the
whole child, what makes themtick and what is going to move
them forward, using their giftsis so important. And I think it
comes back to to like parenting,or being a teacher. There's a
lot of like, kind of toleratingyour own intolerances. If a
(29:05):
child is a little bit louderthan you would prefer. It
doesn't mean they're too loud.
It just means okay, that's kindof bugging you. How do I
tolerate that myself withoutsquashing their spirit?
important?
Kaitlin Johnstone (29:22):
So important, I have to tell my self that is
the mom all the time because mydaughter is me. So I'm like, Oh,
I'm getting a dose of who I wasas a child. And it's, it is
hard. We have to check our ownour own stuff before we can
appropriately guide them. Forsure. Yeah, definitely.
Katie Doughty (29:46):
So okay, I have a question for you. I had my kids
and then one of our neighborswere over reading the book
yesterday, and I asked them Doyou have any questions for
Caitlin? And they really want toknow, because all three of them
are very, very into writing.
They're aspiring authors. Butthey want to know how do you
stick with a project to the end,because they tend to start
something and they're reallyexcited about it. And then they
(30:09):
let it go, and they don't finishit. So what advice do you have
for aspiring authors to stickwith it to the end.
Kaitlin Johnstone (30:17):
So you ask the right person, because I was
also recently diagnosed ADHDlike six months ago. So all of
these things throughout mychildhood that I've been
reflecting upon, and just evenin my adult life make so much
sense, though, I can understandstarting a bunch of different
projects, and then not seeing itthrough. This is probably the
(30:42):
first kind cotton project that Istarted from the beginning and
saw all the way through withoutthe help of my incredible
partner and husband. And I thinkthat is because I have never
been more passionate aboutsomething. So my advice would be
(31:03):
that once you find that story,or that one thing that lights up
your soul, you will know. And nomatter what those obstacles are
to get to the end, you will makeit happen. And I also want to
say that there is no shame inasking for help, though, you
(31:26):
know, because I did need a lotof help. I needed my
illustrator, I needed my editor,I needed my self published book,
friends, to bounce ideas off of.
But I was just so incrediblysold on this story and knew that
it was something I needed to putout into the world, that I was
going to do anything andeverything to make that happen.
(31:48):
Oh,
Katie Doughty (31:51):
I love that. Oh, I love that and kind of seeing
the end game, right visualizingthe end and what it will do for
people and what it will do foryou. I used to visualize my
daughter reading the book that Iwrote, having it in her hands,
that was my my vision when shewas really little and so
something to keep you going. AndI think too, there's also value
(32:15):
in not finishing things. There'svalue in starting something,
figuring out what you like, whatyou don't like you learn along
the way, and then maybe youdon't finish it, and that's
okay. But it might makesomething better in the future
that you try later. And so Ithink that's important for kids
to realize, too, because I knowfor me in school, it was very
much here's your assignment,this is what you need to finish,
(32:37):
it's due by this day, you haveto get it done. And now as a
homeschooling mom, I'm learningto let that go and that there's
learning in the process, andthat if they don't finish, maybe
that's okay. And we startsomething else that they're
passionate about. So I love thatyou said you're gonna find the
spark, you're going to find whatyou're passionate about. And
that is what will drive youforward to finish the projects
(32:59):
that need to be finished.
Kaitlin Johnstone (33:01):
Yeah, 100%. I mean, I couldn't agree more, I
think, I think sometimes thatprobably was my, quote unquote,
issues in school, is, I wasn'tthat interested. You know, and I
always found a way to do wellwithout having to try and I know
(33:23):
that sounds a little, I don'tknow, I don't want to come off
as like, Oh, I didn't have totry it all. And I did well in
school. But I was never reallyinterested in much in school,
and I somehow managed to dopretty well. But I think that's
where like the, maybe thecalling out or the talking in
(33:43):
class or questioning myteachers, and all of these
things came in because like,there really was never that
spark.
Katie Doughty (33:52):
I think to in school, there's very much a path
to accomplishment, where if youfollow the rubric, and you
follow the rules, you will dookay. And so I think for kids
who aren't that interested, theycan get it done and be quote
unquote, successful, becausethey finished the thing, but
maybe they aren't internalizingthat learning the way that you
(34:15):
would hope for or the way theywould if they were really
passionate about it. Yeah. Sointeresting. Oh, so interesting.
I know. Oh, my goodness. Okay.
Tell us about your podcast,because I think you had just
started or you hadn't quitestarted. The last time I
interviewed you. So let's chatabout your podcast. Kindness is.
Yeah,
Kaitlin Johnstone (34:36):
so kindness is again. And what I was
noticing, having done this forso many years, is that I think
I've mentioned this earlier inthe episode, but I have had so
many amazing conversations withpeople surrounding kindness over
the past seven years, that Ineeded a space to put those
(34:58):
conversations out into theworld. Similarly to the book, I
was like, I have spoken to somany incredible authors,
activists, teachers, actors,like just all of these beautiful
people who all had varyingdefinitions of kindness and how
(35:20):
it led them to be doing thethings that they are doing. So I
started the podcast, I guess,probably about eight months ago
now. And they come out everyMonday. And I sit down and talk
to people from all differentwalks of life. And we have these
really deep conversationssurrounding their definitions of
(35:45):
kindness, and also their lifeexperience and their jobs. And
just a lot of things that may begoing on in the world, and how
to really cultivate kindnessthrough all of this chaos that
so many of us are experiencing,what
Katie Doughty (36:01):
an uplifting way to bring attention to kindness,
and then just kind of keep it atthe front of your mind. Like
being able to listen to thoseconversations, and hear other
people's definition of kindnessand what they're doing or what
they hope people are doing issuch a good reminder, and it
kind of keeps it fresh in yourmind. So I love that you're
doing that. Yeah, it's
Kaitlin Johnstone (36:22):
definitely my favorite time of the week. Like
I get very excited when it'stime to record. It was actually
nice hopping on your podcasttoday. Because I was like, Oh, I
can talk about kind kind and mybook and everything. I don't
have to prepare as much as whenI'm doing the interviewing. But
it's been, it's been amazing.
And you know what, there'ssomething that I always say
(36:45):
about the definition ofkindness, too, is that we need
to be open to change. So havingthese conversations has really
helped me be reminded in thatour ideas can change, right?
When we know something and welearn something, then we do
better. And I think often times,our egos get in the way of that.
(37:07):
And we are not allowed tochange, we will not accept
change. And we can't grow if westay stagnant in our views or
things that we you know, alwaysknew we're supposed to be a
certain way. So that has beensomething that's been really
(37:29):
empowering for me.
Katie Doughty (37:32):
Oh, so good.
Well, and critical thinking andkindness go hand in hand, right?
Critical thinking, being able totake in new information and then
change your mind based on thatinformation as opposed to just
deflecting it and trying to comeup with reasons why that's not
true. I think it's such a hugething that we need to be
teaching our kids from day one.
How do you take in newinformation? How do you change
(37:54):
your mind and and know that it'sokay to change your mind? And
admit that okay, what I knewbefore isn't quite right. This
isn't what I believe right now.
Because now I have this newinformation changed my mind. And
I'm going to move forward withthis new information until I get
different information or, or Ilearned something new about this
topic. And I think that is soimportant to teach our kids and
(38:14):
model for them. Because I wetend to as a society, kind of
stand firm in our beliefswithout them. You know, you've
picked a side. Well, that's yourside. And now you're stuck on
that side. And I think we needto start showing that no, you're
not stuck here. If you've gotnew information and you've
changed your mind. That's okay.
(38:37):
And look, I'm doing the samething. I'm learning. I'm
growing. I'm changing. changingmy mind. That's okay. Yeah.
Critical thinking. Yeah.
Kaitlin Johnstone (38:47):
100% Yes.
Katie Doughty (38:49):
Such an important topic. Um, okay. Do you have
more books coming? What's onyour mind? My dear? Are there
more books in your future? Ihope so.
Kaitlin Johnstone (38:59):
I hope so.
Self publishing is really hard.
And I chose it for a veryspecific reason I wanted my
illustrator I had a vision, Iwanted to have all of the rights
to my book. I wanted to be ableto sell it on my website. I
wanted to be able to create teesto go with it. But it's really
(39:22):
hard right? So I want to sayyes, there are definitely more
stories in my brain and possiblyeven on my computer, but it may
be a while before they actuallycome to fruition.
Katie Doughty (39:37):
Well and that spark right we have to wait for
that spark to hit and then bam,it'll fall out of your brain and
and we'll see a new book orSure, yeah, I love that. Okay,
and now I have to mention to youthat you are coming into the
team can humans membership in Ithink a week maybe yeah,
February 6, and I'm so excited.
You're gonna come talk to thekids about kindness is and kind
(39:57):
cotton and all of the wonderfulthings that you are doing. So
for our listeners, if you wantto come join Caitlin in team
kind humans go to team canhumans.com/membership And then
you can join us. I'm so happythat you're coming in for that.
Kaitlin Johnstone (40:15):
I'm so excited. It is my favorite thing
that is like the one thing Imissed so much from being a
public school teacher is beingwith the kids, right. So like,
now that I'm going and doingthese book fairs, and now that I
have my book, and I'm reading atevents, it feels so good to
like, have that little piece ofbeing an educator, instilled
(40:38):
back in me. So I'm reallylooking forward to next week.
Katie Doughty (40:41):
Oh, it's the best feeling. It's a little bit like
coming home. I always feel likewhen I'm back in front of a
group of kids, like, Oh, this iswhy I'm here. This is what I'm
supposed to be doing. And it'san exciting time to have have
those little eyes in front ofyou. And they're always so eager
and willing to learn what youwhat you have to teach. So I'm
glad you're doing that. I'm gladyou've gotten back into the
(41:02):
classrooms and that you're doingyour book fairs. I know you're
coming into the membership andfinding those ways of connecting
with kids because I feel likeonce a teacher, always a
teacher, it doesn't matter whereyou go or what you do. You're
just you will always be ateacher at heart.
Kaitlin Johnstone (41:18):
100% I cannot agree more.
Katie Doughty (41:21):
Yeah, yeah, I can't wait for that. Okay, tell
us anything else about where wecan find you follow along by
your book, your teas, all thethings?
Kaitlin Johnstone (41:30):
Yeah, for sure. So you can definitely
check out our website. It's kindcotton.com. There you can find
by book you can find lots andlots of designs, shirts,
hoodies, you can find thepodcast, and then on social
media, we are mainly onInstagram. And that is also just
(41:50):
kind of cotton, Atkins cotton.
Amazing.
Katie Doughty (41:53):
And I'll put all of that in the show notes. But
thank you so much for cominghere today being my first repeat
guest you get the title foreverand always and sharing this
beautiful mission. I'm sograteful for the work that you
do and I will continue to cheeryou on my friend.
Kaitlin Johnstone (42:12):
Thank you Katie. The feeling is very
mutual.
Hey everyone, welcome back to the raising
humans podcast. I'm your host,Katie Doughty. And today I have
my very first repeat guest onthe show. Caitlin Johnstone is
here from cotton. But today weare diving into her brand new
children's book kindness is. AndI'm excited for you to hear this
conversation and get a behindthe scenes look at this book,
(00:26):
because it does a really greatjob illustrating what exactly is
kindness. And Caitlin kind oftakes us on a journey of nice
versus kind. And that sometimeskind is not always nice. And
that blew my mind when I firstheard this concept. But it's
something to talk about. Andit's something to keep talking
(00:47):
about and teaching our children.
And this book does a beautifuljob doing just that. And you're
going to want a copy becauseit's gorgeous. So head to kind
cotton.com and you can orderyour own copy. She also has
educator packs with resourcesfor teachers that you can
purchase there as well. Andwhile you're there, check out
her shop because she has reallycool clothing that you are going
(01:08):
to want to take a look at. Sohead over to comb cotton.com,
grab your book, grab a coolkindness t shirt, and every
purchase made books or clothing.
She donates an inclusive bookback tickets, which is pretty
cool. And you'll hear all aboutthat in today's episode. Also, I
wanted to let you know thatCaitlyn is actually coming into
(01:29):
team came humans next week onTuesday to talk about cotton
cotton and her book with thekids. And she has a beautiful
presentation for us. And thenthe kids will have an
opportunity to talk to her abouther book about cutting cotton in
ways that they can help getbooks into other kids hands,
because it's an important thingfor us to do. So I'm actually
(01:52):
offering this one for free. Ifyou want to come in, just email
me Katie at team kind humans.comor find me on Instagram, send me
a message. And I will send youthe Zoom link. If you have an
elementary aged kiddo that wouldbe interested in coming and
learning from Caitlin. Just letme know, I'll send you the link.
We'd love to have you. So headover to Team comm
(02:13):
humans.com/membership. If youwant more information about
that, otherwise, email me I'llsend you the link. And I'll
hopefully see you Tuesdayafternoon. So without further
ado, please welcome Caitlyn.
Hello, Miss Caitlyn. Welcomeback to the raising kind humans
Podcast. I'm so happy. You arethe very first repeat guests on
(02:35):
the podcast.
Kaitlin Johnstone (02:39):
I'm so excited and so honored by that.
Thank you so much.
Katie Doughty (02:43):
Yeah, I'm really excited that I get to have you
back because you have a new bookout kindness is and I'm thrilled
to dive into this book with youbecause it's absolutely
beautiful. But just in case. Sowe interviewed together before
and we talked all about cottoncotton. So in case people don't
know what cotton cotton is, canyou give us just a little
(03:03):
background about what that is?
And then we'll dive into yourbook? Yeah, absolutely.
Kaitlin Johnstone (03:08):
So my partner and I, my husband, Kevin and I
started kind cotton about sevenyears ago, I was a kindergarten
teacher in the state of Florida.
And I was noticing a seriouslack of access to books. So I
would take my students to thebook fair, many of them couldn't
purchase books. So I would buybooks for them. around the
holidays, I would find ways toyou know, grab those dollar
(03:32):
scholastic books. And then itjust clicked to me one day that
there was something that wecould potentially do about this.
And I rushed home, open up thedoor, ran into my husband, who
was I believe my fiancee at thetime, maybe? I don't know, all
the years blend together. And Isaid I have this wild idea. But
(03:54):
hear me out. I would love tostart a small clothing company.
And then with every singlepurchase, we donate a book to a
child. And he was all in and nowseven years later, we have
donated over 143,000 bucksticket. I know it's wild. Wait
143,000
Katie Doughty (04:20):
Incredible. Yeah.
Oh my gosh, that number is sohuge. And I know you're on a
mission for a million. Is thattrue? We
Kaitlin Johnstone (04:27):
are and you know, head. I said this when we
started seven years ago when wemaybe donated 30 bucks a month.
I would have been like no like,Caitlin, you are crazy. That is
impossible. But now that we'vegone as far as we have and done
the things that we've done. I'mtrying to dream big, though,
Katie Doughty (04:49):
and why not? You can totally do this. Yeah,
absolutely. I mean, your messageis just beautiful and so needed
in the world. And I know for me,I love supporting companies. I
give back in some way,especially when it's related to
kids. Again, easy no brainerpurchase for me, because I feel
like it's a double, I get twofor one. So I love that that's
(05:11):
your mission. So now you donatebooks to kids, can you tell us a
little bit about your free bookfairs? Yes, they
Kaitlin Johnstone (05:18):
have been the most exciting thing. And I'm
just like, so happy to be backin person. Because to make like
a really long history and storyas short as possible, when we
first started, I wanted ourimpact to be very hands on. So
when we initially planned thisall out, I started a reading
program with a local elementaryschool, I would go once a month,
(05:41):
there were about 30 kids in theprogram, I would read them a
book, and we would make a craftand have snacks together. And
then at the end of that everysingle child was able to leave
with a copy of the book that Idid my lesson on. Fast forward
to the pandemic. And thatstopped, and I couldn't go into
schools anymore. We then movedfrom Florida to Maryland. And
(06:05):
then just in the past, I guesstwo years now, we started
hosting free book fairs. Sogoing back to my memory of
bringing my kids to theScholastic Book Fair, having
them experience such sadness,like, just think of bringing a
five year old to theseincredibly decorated, elaborate
(06:29):
book fairs with all of thesesuper cool things, and then
telling them, oh, no, sorry, youcan't get anything like it is.
It's traumatic, it's terrible.
So I said, You know what, I wantto start going into schools, the
week or two after the ScholasticBook Fair, so that teachers can
tell their students Hey, you maynot have been able to get a book
today, but I promise you, thereis a company coming in in a week
(06:52):
or two, they're called concotton, they are going to bring
1000s of books. And you canchoose any book that you would
like. So whenever I reach out toschools, they're like, Wait,
this is like, what's the catch?
This is free. And I'm like is aslong as I can drive to you, as
long as I can pack up my car,with the box, drive there and be
(07:14):
back within one day, then yes,it is absolutely free. And we've
probably done about 20 of thoseso far. We do one a month. And
the kids are always so excitedwhen they come in. And they hear
that they get to take any bookthat they would like that
interests them home for free,courtesy of everything that we
(07:36):
sell
Katie Doughty (07:37):
on our site. It's just so beautiful. Because I've
been there too. I have takenfirst and second graders to book
fairs and watch them watch otherpeople purchase and come home.
And they make it so enticingbecause not only do they have
books, they also have like thepencils and the erasers and the
posters and all the like funthings. Yeah. And having them
(08:01):
walk out not being able topurchase anything is absolutely
heartbreaking. Yeah. And it's sofrustrating. And so for you to
swoop in and come in and say youknow what your choose whatever
you like, that's just such abeautiful mission. And I love
that that's what you're, that'swhat you're putting out in the
world. And what's what you'rebringing to kids, at schools,
and so props to you, my
Kaitlin Johnstone (08:23):
friend. Thank you.
Katie Doughty (08:24):
Amazing. So let's dive into your kindness, his
book, tell me how this started.
Where did this originate from?
When did you get the seed ofthis idea? And then kind of the
journey behind that?
Kaitlin Johnstone (08:36):
Yeah, I mean, it really originated with kind
cotton, right? The shirt thatyou and I are both wearing right
now is our most popular item.
It's called our kindness is tand we put out a request to our
followers years ago, about whatdoes kindness mean to you? And
we said, you can only give usone word, we know that it's
(08:56):
gonna be really hard. But if youhad to sum up kindness by saying
one word, what would it be? Soat the time, we were shocked,
like it was the most feedback wehad ever received on anything,
we got hundreds of submissions.
And we kept seeing these fewwords coming up over and over
(09:16):
and over again. And we alsochose the ones that were very
near and dear to our mission. Sothe words are love, empathy,
compassion, inclusion, justice,and kindness. That's what we
believe, makes up kindness. Sothen I started having these
conversations, and featuringpeople on my page with their
(09:38):
definition of kindness, and justreally like diving in on these
deep, meaningful, multifacetedconversations surrounding
kindness, and it being more thanniceness. So I'm sure you can
understand this but having beenan educator, children's books
just mean the world to me, andthen being in All the work that
(10:00):
we do, I've met so manyillustrators and, and fellow
authors and editors andpublishers, and just, there was
a wealth of knowledge there. SoI was sitting on my couch one
day. And I love writing, likewriting is my therapy, I just,
it's my go to, for anything andeverything. And I sat down, and
(10:23):
I opened up my computer, and Iwrote this manuscript, about
kindness for children in like,10 minutes, and I put it away.
Like, I was like, Okay, this isnever gonna be anything, put it
away. I was about three yearsago, opened my computer back up,
(10:44):
because my best friend was like,Hey, did he say we're like
working on a book? What happenedwith that? I'm like, You're
right, I should, I shouldrevisit this. So I opened it
back up, look through it, didsome editing on my own, sent it
to my friend who is anincredibly talented illustrator.
She loved it, and said, I wantto do this with you. And here we
(11:09):
are three years later, with thisbook, that is, what I am now
saying is like, the heart andsoul of me and our company, and
everything I value.
Katie Doughty (11:22):
Oh, my goodness, it is and reading through it. I
was just like, oh, this is SoCaitlin. And it's so it's such a
perfect thing to hand over whensomebody's like, but what is
kindness? Like? What does thatmean to you? And why? Like you
and you see your shirts, youknow, with all of those words
like what does that mean? Andhow do you explain that to a
kid, you could just hand themthis book, pull them up on your
(11:43):
lap, read this and chat aboutit. And it makes it so simple
and meaningful. And impactful.
And I love that you were able tojust kind of tie it up in a
little bow and have been able topresent the kids. It's just
gorgeous.
Kaitlin Johnstone (11:57):
Thank you.
Yeah, that was something thatonce we really started getting
getting into it. Again, havingbeen a kindergarten teacher
specifically, we would have likeweek long celebrations. Now
kindness. And typically, whenyou ask a child, what does
kindness mean to you, they comeup with amazing things. But they
are things that are very muchniceness and not necessarily
(12:22):
kindness. So using your manners,of course, that is a great thing
to be doing, holding the dooropen for a friend. Another
amazing thing to be doing, Ialways say never want to take
away from niceties becausethey're important, right? Like,
my friend could send me a cup ofcoffee on a day when I am just
(12:42):
like, at my breaking point. Andit is the best thing ever. But I
also think it's important thatwe extend those conversations
and look to things like empathy,and inclusion, and justice and
in using our voice. And this isa very simplistic way for a
child to understand what thoseterms mean.
Katie Doughty (13:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I don't I don't remember ifwe talked about this last time,
but um, I read the book, deepkindness by Houston craft. And
he did yeah, yeah. Okay. Ialways pull back to that book,
because it's, it was so eyeopening for me about what, what
actually is the definition ofkindness. And yes, kindness can
be uncomfortable. And it can bedifficult. And it's something
(13:26):
that we're constantly workingtowards, you don't just become
kind, right? Like, there's somuch more to this deep kindness.
And I think you've packaged itin a kid's book to help kind of
lead the way in thoseconversations about what this
deep kindness actually means.
And that's so helpful, becauseI'm always looking to children's
(13:47):
books to figure out how do I saythis in a kid friendly way so
that they can start learning nowand not in their 30s? Like, I am
trying to figure this out? Whatdoes this actually mean? And so,
I just love that you've naileddown those topics. And I feel
like as a classroom teacher, andnow as a homeschooling mom, I
(14:08):
could spend months on this, butwe can pull it out. Okay, let's
talk about just compassion.
Yeah, what is that we couldspend a whole week on that,
like, let's talk about this.
Okay, now, let's go on tojustice. Let's go on to
inclusion. What do those meanand being able to just like,
dive into those topics? It'ssuch a good jumping off point.
Yeah.
Kaitlin Johnstone (14:28):
100%. And when we when my illustrator and
I collaborated on everything, wereally wanted to have this book,
be a discussion piece and offerlike companion projects and
crafts and writing pieces andprompts. And she made so many
(14:50):
incredible resources to go withus. And that is exactly how we
thought it would play out likethis would be almost like a unit
of study for are a month, twomonths, it is something that you
can definitely keep going backto and really dive in.
Katie Doughty (15:06):
Are those resources available for teachers
and parents? Where can they findthem?
Kaitlin Johnstone (15:10):
Yeah, they're on our website, which is where
you can also find the book, weobviously are on Amazon, but I'm
sure is, you know, it is alwaysbetter if you can purchase
directly from our website. Andsince we ship everything
ourselves and have them inhouse, shipping is probably
nearly as quick as Amazon likeyou're not going to get in a day
or two. But we're pretty fast.
So it's on our website, kindcotton.com. And then you also,
(15:34):
we have various bundles. So youcan get the educator bundle,
which includes a copy of thebook, a sticker sheet, to give
stickers out to kids in yourclass, and all of the
companionship, worksheets,writing prompts, crafts that go
along with it. Oh, I love that.
Katie Doughty (15:56):
I wanted to point out something that I saw on
here, one of the adults iswearing a t shirt and it says
kindness is a verb. It's one ofmy favorites. And I did a craft
fair one year and I made somelike a bag or something and says
kindness is a verb. And thisolder lady came up to me and she
she was like staring at it. Andthen she looked at me and she's
(16:16):
like, that's not right. And Iwas like, No, it's a phrase
because kindness is action. Likeyou have to take action and do
something. And she was like,okay, but you're just confusing
children. So, isn't that sointeresting? But my immediate
thought was like, Oh, no. And Iwent internally, like, Am I
(16:39):
doing this wrong, but it justmade me think of how one
person's comment can change theway you're thinking. Because
when I put it out there, I was,like, this is so cute, and it's
so good. It's gonna be actionsteps, and like, kids are gonna
want to take action to be kind.
And then that one comment, madeit like, I second guessed
everything. And then I was like,Is this am I confusing children.
(17:01):
And so I was just wondering ifyou can speak a little bit to
that, about how we can help kindof stand strong in our beliefs
about what kindness is, andmaybe not shrink to comments
from other people.
Kaitlin Johnstone (17:16):
So I think I love this question. And I feel
like we could have an entirepodcast alone on this question.
Because there's a lot of thingsat play here, right. But the
number one thing that I alwaysgo back to is society is set up
specifically for women. To benice, right to go along with the
(17:37):
status quo to, to listen and notuse our voices loudly and not
stand in our convictions. And Ialways say that I am so grateful
that I had parents, who didn'tcall me loud. They called me
passionate. They didn't call meargumentative. They called me
(18:00):
curious. They stood behind who Iwas as a, as a young little girl
who was very like, bold andexcited and passionate. And I
think that's a huge reason as towhy I'm the person that I am
today. Now, I get a lot ofterrible things said to me on
(18:21):
the internet, as I'm sure manyof us do. And if I listened to
every single one of thosecomments, and I took every
single one of those comments toheart, and I second guessed,
every single thing that we did,then we wouldn't be where we are
today. And we wouldn't behosting the free book fairs. And
we wouldn't have provided143,000 books to kids, and we
(18:44):
wouldn't have built thecommunity that we built. And
that's not to say that it's notincredibly uncomfortable,
sometimes anxiety producing.
However, I always try to havethis end goal in mind. And
fortunately, I have surroundedmyself with so many beautifully
creative, passionate like mindedpeople that I have them to turn
(19:07):
to in times of support. I thinkI think it's really these are
systems that have been put inplace that are working to keep
us quiet, right and to, tosilence us and to feel isolated
and like we don't have communityand we're only one person doing
(19:31):
these things. And I think thebeauty of finding your voice is
really freeing. So yeah, justfinding people that you can
connect with because communityis more important now than than
ever.
Katie Doughty (19:49):
Oh so much. Yeah, absolutely. And I like that as a
Yeah, relying on the communitythat you've built, and looking
for that support when you needit and then supporting others.
when they need it to and justshowing up for them, I think
it's really important. Thistopic of nice versus kind is so
interesting to me. And I do adeep dive into this in the book
(20:11):
that I'm writing. And I hadnever really thought about it
before, until I startedresearching it, and how we are
absolutely trained to be nice.
But being nice is just a way ofgetting through to get what you
need later. And it's sointeresting when you break it
(20:31):
down, like if you are nice toyour boss, you're being nice to
get to move forward in yourcompany or to get ahead in your
job. Whereas being kind iscoming from a genuine place of
wanting to help someone else.
And I'm just curious if you canspeak a little bit more to the
(20:54):
difference between nice andkind. And how do we help our
kids understand that
Kaitlin Johnstone (21:00):
you have for sure, I mean, this is something
that I talked about all thetime. And I love it. Again, we
could talk about this for hours,I feel like but one of the
things that I always say isbeing nice again, going back to
that holding the door open for afriend, but being kind is paving
the way so that doors remainopen for opportunities for all
(21:23):
people, right? Being nice issaying you love and support your
LGBTQ plus family members. Butbeing kind is voting for the
people who are going to protectthem. It is standing up at those
school board meetings sayingthat reading a bulk about a
(21:45):
child who has two moms is justshowing a different family
dynamic. There is nothing wrongwith that. And if anything, all
it does is build empathy for alldifferent families. Right? So it
is going that that extra mile.
It's kind of like not onlytalking the talk, but walking
the walk. And that's where Ifeel like kindness comes in. And
(22:08):
kindness is not always nice,right? Like, kindness is not
always status quo. Kindness isnot always quiet. Sometimes we
have to be calm, like you saidearlier, very uncomfortable when
we're being routed in true
Katie Doughty (22:27):
kindness. Oh, that's so good. Kindness is not
always nice. So much because youdon't you think of the two as
synonyms, like they are the sameword. Oftentimes, that's what we
are taught. And so when you arenow extracting that and saying
no, actually, they might beopposites. That's such a big,
(22:50):
cool, bold statement.
Kaitlin Johnstone (22:52):
Yeah, mind blowing, right?
Katie Doughty (22:54):
It really is mind blowing. What are some of the
things maybe you say toyourself, when you are
uncomfortable in what you arestanding for? Or what you need
to do to be loud? Like, how doyou build up that courage? Or
what could we say to our kids,to help them be courageous and
kindness.
Kaitlin Johnstone (23:14):
So hard, it goes back to looking at myself
as a young child, right. And Imean, as a kid, we're definitely
uncomfortable in certainsituations, you know, we don't
want to ruffle any featherseither. We don't want to be the
brunt of any jokes. It's it'shard to stand tall and
(23:35):
courageous and maybe stand up toa bully or believe in the things
that you believe in and believein them 110% And making that
known. And I think one of thebest things that we can do is
(23:55):
continue to let children knowthat they are seen and then they
are loved, and they are valuedfor who they are, that they are
brave, that they are making adifference. I think it's
important to model thatbehavior. Right? Like it's one
thing to read inclusive books tomy daughter. It is a whole other
(24:20):
thing to actually live thatexperience. Yeah, right? To have
her intentionally go to a schoolwhere they are also teaching
these things, to have herintentionally go to a school
where her teacher, one of herteachers is trans to have
different friends come into ourhome, so that she is around
(24:44):
people from all different walksof life, right. So I think one
of the biggest things we coulddo is model that for them and
model using our voice and alsotell them that it's not always
easy, right? Invite them in inan age approach. right away
about some of maybe the harmfulthings that have been said to me
(25:05):
or her dad about the work thatwe do. And that what matters at
the end of the day, is thatwe're standing up for humanity
and people, and the people whowe love. And when I lay my head
down at night, and when I lay myhead down, hopefully years from
now, at the end of this crazy,beautiful life, I will have been
(25:29):
able to say that I stood up forthe things that matter the most
to me.
Katie Doughty (25:33):
I love that, because our kids are always
always always watching. They arewatching, whether we want them
to or not, they know Yes. Andthey are going to start modeling
themselves after US based onwhat we are doing. So modeling
is one of the biggest things wecan do for them. And I think
that I liked what you said aboutinviting them into conversation.
(25:56):
So not only are you doing thesethings, but then at the dinner
table having a conversationabout it, hey, I did this thing
today. This was really hard forme. And it was really
challenging. And then I got thismean comment, but here's what I
did. Or here's how I feel aboutthat, or here's what I'm going
to do next time. And justincluding them through that
whole process, I think is soridiculously powerful.
Kaitlin Johnstone (26:19):
Mm hmm. It's a teacher mindset, right? Yeah.
Being able to talk out loudabout the things that you're
doing, while you're modelingthat for them as it is it is
really powerful.
Katie Doughty (26:31):
I think you also hit on something really cool
that like we know as parents,but maybe we need to do a better
job at is how you said yourparents didn't call you loud,
the ecology passionate, and theydidn't, you know, call you
argumentative. They called you.
I'm curious, right? And soturning those things that
sometimes can be reallychallenging as a parent, when
(26:53):
your child can be very loudabout things or very opinionated
about things, and turning theminto a positive instead of like,
Oh, she's so bossy. No, she'sgonna run the world. Like I
trust her to run the world. Andbeing able to put that type of
confidence into your child touse their gifts, because those
are gifts, even if we feel likemaybe they're they're difficult
(27:16):
to handle. But they're the giftsthat the child has been given to
be able to empower them to usethose gifts,
Kaitlin Johnstone (27:24):
I think is so important. Yeah, me too. 100%.
Because in school, it was notalways that way. Right. So like,
thankfully, I had my parentsbehind me, and kind of rooting
me on and knowing that, like, Ican remember my mom telling a
teacher once like, oh, well,maybe she'll make a great lawyer
(27:47):
one day, you know, and it's notlike they allowed me to be
incredibly disrespectful, where,you know, it was a lot of it was
typical child behavior, thatsome teachers maybe didn't know
how to connect and, quote,unquote, handle, which I think
(28:09):
was when I was a teacher, it'svery much the reason why I was
able to and I'm doing airquotes, handle the more
difficult children, right,because I, I saw myself in them
and they weren't difficult.
There was just things that theyneeded to express, or they maybe
needed me to tell theminformation in a different way.
(28:31):
Or maybe it just was somethingthat wasn't engaging enough for
them. And we needed to find thatthing that was really going to
spark their interest. So yeah, I
Katie Doughty (28:44):
think that's huge. Yeah, yep. Looking at the
whole child, what makes themtick and what is going to move
them forward, using their giftsis so important. And I think it
comes back to to like parenting,or being a teacher. There's a
lot of like, kind of toleratingyour own intolerances. If a
(29:05):
child is a little bit louderthan you would prefer. It
doesn't mean they're too loud.
It just means okay, that's kindof bugging you. How do I
tolerate that myself withoutsquashing their spirit?
important?
Kaitlin Johnstone (29:22):
So important, I have to tell my self that is
the mom all the time because mydaughter is me. So I'm like, Oh,
I'm getting a dose of who I wasas a child. And it's, it is
hard. We have to check our ownour own stuff before we can
appropriately guide them. Forsure. Yeah, definitely.
Katie Doughty (29:46):
So okay, I have a question for you. I had my kids
and then one of our neighborswere over reading the book
yesterday, and I asked them Doyou have any questions for
Caitlin? And they really want toknow, because all three of them
are very, very into writing.
They're aspiring authors. Butthey want to know how do you
stick with a project to the end,because they tend to start
something and they're reallyexcited about it. And then they
(30:09):
let it go, and they don't finishit. So what advice do you have
for aspiring authors to stickwith it to the end.
Kaitlin Johnstone (30:17):
So you ask the right person, because I was
also recently diagnosed ADHDlike six months ago. So all of
these things throughout mychildhood that I've been
reflecting upon, and just evenin my adult life make so much
sense, though, I can understandstarting a bunch of different
projects, and then not seeing itthrough. This is probably the
(30:42):
first kind cotton project that Istarted from the beginning and
saw all the way through withoutthe help of my incredible
partner and husband. And I thinkthat is because I have never
been more passionate aboutsomething. So my advice would be
(31:03):
that once you find that story,or that one thing that lights up
your soul, you will know. And nomatter what those obstacles are
to get to the end, you will makeit happen. And I also want to
say that there is no shame inasking for help, though, you
(31:26):
know, because I did need a lotof help. I needed my
illustrator, I needed my editor,I needed my self published book,
friends, to bounce ideas off of.
But I was just so incrediblysold on this story and knew that
it was something I needed to putout into the world, that I was
going to do anything andeverything to make that happen.
(31:48):
Oh,
Katie Doughty (31:51):
I love that. Oh, I love that and kind of seeing
the end game, right visualizingthe end and what it will do for
people and what it will do foryou. I used to visualize my
daughter reading the book that Iwrote, having it in her hands,
that was my my vision when shewas really little and so
something to keep you going. AndI think too, there's also value
(32:15):
in not finishing things. There'svalue in starting something,
figuring out what you like, whatyou don't like you learn along
the way, and then maybe youdon't finish it, and that's
okay. But it might makesomething better in the future
that you try later. And so Ithink that's important for kids
to realize, too, because I knowfor me in school, it was very
much here's your assignment,this is what you need to finish,
(32:37):
it's due by this day, you haveto get it done. And now as a
homeschooling mom, I'm learningto let that go and that there's
learning in the process, andthat if they don't finish, maybe
that's okay. And we startsomething else that they're
passionate about. So I love thatyou said you're gonna find the
spark, you're going to find whatyou're passionate about. And
that is what will drive youforward to finish the projects
(32:59):
that need to be finished.
Kaitlin Johnstone (33:01):
Yeah, 100%. I mean, I couldn't agree more, I
think, I think sometimes thatprobably was my, quote unquote,
issues in school, is, I wasn'tthat interested. You know, and I
always found a way to do wellwithout having to try and I know
(33:23):
that sounds a little, I don'tknow, I don't want to come off
as like, Oh, I didn't have totry it all. And I did well in
school. But I was never reallyinterested in much in school,
and I somehow managed to dopretty well. But I think that's
where like the, maybe thecalling out or the talking in
(33:43):
class or questioning myteachers, and all of these
things came in because like,there really was never that
spark.
Katie Doughty (33:52):
I think to in school, there's very much a path
to accomplishment, where if youfollow the rubric, and you
follow the rules, you will dookay. And so I think for kids
who aren't that interested, theycan get it done and be quote
unquote, successful, becausethey finished the thing, but
maybe they aren't internalizingthat learning the way that you
(34:15):
would hope for or the way theywould if they were really
passionate about it. Yeah. Sointeresting. Oh, so interesting.
I know. Oh, my goodness. Okay.
Tell us about your podcast,because I think you had just
started or you hadn't quitestarted. The last time I
interviewed you. So let's chatabout your podcast. Kindness is.
Yeah,
Kaitlin Johnstone (34:36):
so kindness is again. And what I was
noticing, having done this forso many years, is that I think
I've mentioned this earlier inthe episode, but I have had so
many amazing conversations withpeople surrounding kindness over
the past seven years, that Ineeded a space to put those
(34:58):
conversations out into theworld. Similarly to the book, I
was like, I have spoken to somany incredible authors,
activists, teachers, actors,like just all of these beautiful
people who all had varyingdefinitions of kindness and how
(35:20):
it led them to be doing thethings that they are doing. So I
started the podcast, I guess,probably about eight months ago
now. And they come out everyMonday. And I sit down and talk
to people from all differentwalks of life. And we have these
really deep conversationssurrounding their definitions of
(35:45):
kindness, and also their lifeexperience and their jobs. And
just a lot of things that may begoing on in the world, and how
to really cultivate kindnessthrough all of this chaos that
so many of us are experiencing,what
Katie Doughty (36:01):
an uplifting way to bring attention to kindness,
and then just kind of keep it atthe front of your mind. Like
being able to listen to thoseconversations, and hear other
people's definition of kindnessand what they're doing or what
they hope people are doing issuch a good reminder, and it
kind of keeps it fresh in yourmind. So I love that you're
doing that. Yeah, it's
Kaitlin Johnstone (36:22):
definitely my favorite time of the week. Like
I get very excited when it'stime to record. It was actually
nice hopping on your podcasttoday. Because I was like, Oh, I
can talk about kind kind and mybook and everything. I don't
have to prepare as much as whenI'm doing the interviewing. But
it's been, it's been amazing.
And you know what, there'ssomething that I always say
(36:45):
about the definition ofkindness, too, is that we need
to be open to change. So havingthese conversations has really
helped me be reminded in thatour ideas can change, right?
When we know something and welearn something, then we do
better. And I think often times,our egos get in the way of that.
(37:07):
And we are not allowed tochange, we will not accept
change. And we can't grow if westay stagnant in our views or
things that we you know, alwaysknew we're supposed to be a
certain way. So that has beensomething that's been really
(37:29):
empowering for me.
Katie Doughty (37:32):
Oh, so good.
Well, and critical thinking andkindness go hand in hand, right?
Critical thinking, being able totake in new information and then
change your mind based on thatinformation as opposed to just
deflecting it and trying to comeup with reasons why that's not
true. I think it's such a hugething that we need to be
teaching our kids from day one.
How do you take in newinformation? How do you change
(37:54):
your mind and and know that it'sokay to change your mind? And
admit that okay, what I knewbefore isn't quite right. This
isn't what I believe right now.
Because now I have this newinformation changed my mind. And
I'm going to move forward withthis new information until I get
different information or, or Ilearned something new about this
topic. And I think that is soimportant to teach our kids and
(38:14):
model for them. Because I wetend to as a society, kind of
stand firm in our beliefswithout them. You know, you've
picked a side. Well, that's yourside. And now you're stuck on
that side. And I think we needto start showing that no, you're
not stuck here. If you've gotnew information and you've
changed your mind. That's okay.
(38:37):
And look, I'm doing the samething. I'm learning. I'm
growing. I'm changing. changingmy mind. That's okay. Yeah.
Critical thinking. Yeah.
Kaitlin Johnstone (38:47):
100% Yes.
Katie Doughty (38:49):
Such an important topic. Um, okay. Do you have
more books coming? What's onyour mind? My dear? Are there
more books in your future? Ihope so.
Kaitlin Johnstone (38:59):
I hope so.
Self publishing is really hard.
And I chose it for a veryspecific reason I wanted my
illustrator I had a vision, Iwanted to have all of the rights
to my book. I wanted to be ableto sell it on my website. I
wanted to be able to create teesto go with it. But it's really
(39:22):
hard right? So I want to sayyes, there are definitely more
stories in my brain and possiblyeven on my computer, but it may
be a while before they actuallycome to fruition.
Katie Doughty (39:37):
Well and that spark right we have to wait for
that spark to hit and then bam,it'll fall out of your brain and
and we'll see a new book orSure, yeah, I love that. Okay,
and now I have to mention to youthat you are coming into the
team can humans membership in Ithink a week maybe yeah,
February 6, and I'm so excited.
You're gonna come talk to thekids about kindness is and kind
(39:57):
cotton and all of the wonderfulthings that you are doing. So
for our listeners, if you wantto come join Caitlin in team
kind humans go to team canhumans.com/membership And then
you can join us. I'm so happythat you're coming in for that.
Kaitlin Johnstone (40:15):
I'm so excited. It is my favorite thing
that is like the one thing Imissed so much from being a
public school teacher is beingwith the kids, right. So like,
now that I'm going and doingthese book fairs, and now that I
have my book, and I'm reading atevents, it feels so good to
like, have that little piece ofbeing an educator, instilled
(40:38):
back in me. So I'm reallylooking forward to next week.
Katie Doughty (40:41):
Oh, it's the best feeling. It's a little bit like
coming home. I always feel likewhen I'm back in front of a
group of kids, like, Oh, this iswhy I'm here. This is what I'm
supposed to be doing. And it'san exciting time to have have
those little eyes in front ofyou. And they're always so eager
and willing to learn what youwhat you have to teach. So I'm
glad you're doing that. I'm gladyou've gotten back into the
(41:02):
classrooms and that you're doingyour book fairs. I know you're
coming into the membership andfinding those ways of connecting
with kids because I feel likeonce a teacher, always a
teacher, it doesn't matter whereyou go or what you do. You're
just you will always be ateacher at heart.
Kaitlin Johnstone (41:18):
100% I cannot agree more.
Katie Doughty (41:21):
Yeah, yeah, I can't wait for that. Okay, tell
us anything else about where wecan find you follow along by
your book, your teas, all thethings?
Kaitlin Johnstone (41:30):
Yeah, for sure. So you can definitely
check out our website. It's kindcotton.com. There you can find
by book you can find lots andlots of designs, shirts,
hoodies, you can find thepodcast, and then on social
media, we are mainly onInstagram. And that is also just
(41:50):
kind of cotton, Atkins cotton.
Amazing.
Katie Doughty (41:53):
And I'll put all of that in the show notes. But
thank you so much for cominghere today being my first repeat
guest you get the title foreverand always and sharing this
beautiful mission. I'm sograteful for the work that you
do and I will continue to cheeryou on my friend.
Kaitlin Johnstone (42:12):
Thank you Katie. The feeling is very
mutual.
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